Putin's Internet Czar Wants To Ban Windows On Government PCs

SmartAboutThings writes: The Russian government is allegedly looking to ban Microsoft's Windows operating system, increase taxes on foreign technology companies, develop its homegrown OS and encourage local tech companies to grow. All these proposals comes from German Klimenko, Vladimir Putin's new 'internet czar, as Bloomberg describes him. In a 90-minute interview, Klimenko said forcing Google and Apple to pay more taxes and banning Microsoft Windows from government computers are necessary measures, as he is trying to raise taxes on U.S. companies, thus helping local Russian competitors such as Yandex and Mail.ru.

Comments

Hillary, is that you?

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

>> Klimenko said forcing Google and Apple to pay more taxes

Hillary, is that you?

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

With the baby boomers retiring, the work force getting smaller, and Social Security/Medicare consuming two-thirds of the federal budget in the next 20 years, someone will have to pay for all those taxes. Since corporations are people, they can pay their fare share.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

>> they can pay their fare share

It looks like we should also continue to invest in education. That would be the only "fair" thing to do.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Penguinisto]

Slightly off-topic, but the only way to make sure everyone pays their fair share would be to remove *all* loopholes/deductions/credits, and set a single tax rate (say, 15-20%). For charity's sake, the first $x/year income can be exempt (where x = 120% of poverty rate or similar metric).

Yes, a flat tax. But, it is ultimately fair for a zillionaire to pay in 20% of his income, which would be way larger than 20% of Joe Sixpack's middle-class income. As a beneficial side-effect, people would suddenly get very interested in any congressional action that would change the tax rate, no?

Of course, often when people demand that $group pay their "fair share", what they often mean is "enough to make them suffer - hard!" I trust and am hoping that you're not one of those folks.

--

Now, on topic - as for Russia? They can set whatever rates they want... we have no sovereignty there, so even if they were taxed at 100% of income, the US government would not see a dime of it.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

It looks like we should also continue to invest in education.

I can reassure you that my local school district got more than their fair share when they misdiagnosed me as mentally retarded and kept the extra funding for special ed for eight years. Never mind that I blew out annual evaluations on the genius side (those were "statistical flukes"). I graduated the eighth grade with a college-level reading comprehension, skipped high school and went to community college. A decade after I graduated with a A.A. degree, I went back to school to learn computer programming, made the college president's list for maintaining a 4.0 GPA in my major, and graduated with an A.S. degree.

That would be the only "fair" thing to do.

Even geniuses are not immune to catastrophic brain farts.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

I trust and am hoping that you're not one of those folks.

I'm a firm believer that you need a personal corporation for the tax advantages and writing unlimited checks to political candidates.

so even if they were taxed at 100% of income, the US government would not see a dime of it.

Unless you're an American citizen working in Russia. You still have to file a tax return and pay taxes for your worldwide income to the IRS.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[SuricouRaven]

Such a simple system becomes exploitable. The exploits demand countermeasures, and that gets complicated.

For example, you tax income. But what is income? Company car? Company house? Company staff discount? You've set up a system where employers and employees agree to non-monetary compensation as a form of tax avoidance, which means you have to add all sorts of rules about calculating equivalent taxable values.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gold star for you, special snowflake!

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

Gold star for you, special snowflake!

That only works for grades one to three.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Hylandr]

I feel you man, I feel you!

+1

Re: Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

He, you figured out that 20% of a million is more than one fifth of a hundred thousand.

But whose life is impacted more by paying each thousand dollars of income?

I don't know why flat taxers think that nobody can spot their BS, but it smells, it really does.

Why don't you just propose a universal sales tax so we can be sure of it?

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

With the baby boomers retiring, the work force getting smaller, and Social Security/Medicare consuming two-thirds of the federal budget in the next 20 years, someone will have to pay for all those taxes. Since corporations are people, they can pay their fare share.

Ah, you noticed the problem with the Republican/Tea Party platforms - they want to reduce taxes without increasing the deficit, without cutting military spending, so that means health care and social security have to go. Not immediately, of course, they will phase this in 20 years after the seniors who voted them into power have died, so it's the voters' kids and grandkids who get screwed.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Penguinisto]

The same dodges are just as exploitable now. It's not like Barter will suddenly be invented once the tax code changes...

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Talderas]

It is a simple system.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pd...

36 pages defining income compared to the tax code that is how long?

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[SuricouRaven]

They can be exploited now, but there are all sorts of really convoluted tax rules to stop that which you need to spend years studying in order to comprehend - and you need someone who knows all those rules in order to find the loopholes. Your alternative proposal would scrap the rules, which means every business large and small would be finding new ways to barter efficiently. 20% of payroll costs will easily justify hiring a specialist who knows how best to set up a good untaxable benefits system.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Sique]

That's why in many countries, there exists the concept of "money worth advantages". They get taxed as income. Company provided dental insurance? Higher taxes. Company car? Higher taxes. Company provided lunch? Higher taxes.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

36 pages defining income compared to the tax code that is how long?

Last I heard it was 6,500+ pages. Strip out all the exemptions, sweetheart deals and corporate giveaways, the actual tax code is ~125 pages.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Talderas]

Income taxes are based on your taxable income with exemptions taken. The tax code, which is 6,500 pages long, describes both what qualifies as taxable income as well as the exemptions that can be taken to reduce how much of the taxable income is taxed. For the purpose of income tax, what qualifies as income can be described in 36 pages. 36 pages describing what all gets lumped together to be taxed at the 15-20% rate that was proposed.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, afterwards you have to give them medals and ribbons and diplomas for "good work", but it is really the same thing as the special snowlake ...

Re: Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

This year may just be that year.
Gold star for you!
Perhaps we will see you in the 4th grade, ah, next year. Yes. Maybe. Good luck.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

After the third grade, I became known as the kid who doesn't get any awards on the day that the principle gives awards to everyone for no particular reason.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then maybe you should get your hand out of his pants...

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[bjdevil66]

A true flat tax (and nationwide sales tax) is doomed because they will "hurt" the poor. Right now, millions of poor people get thousands in earned income credits without working or paying a penny of income tax. Those EICs (aka over-the-top freebies from the gov't) will be eaten up quickly in (or completely removed from) a flat tax system.

And no, people wouldn't suddenly get interested in any congressional action or civics/politics at that point. You'd just have a millions-strong mob of relatively uneducated poor people tearing the country apart before you could say "economic theory".

If the gov't actually got that mess under control, then you'd have a mini-recession due to the loss of income to all the businesses that rely on that infusion of deficit spending fueled cash every spring. The poor go out annually and buy that new hot water heater, even larger TVs, newer and better cell phones to make rap videos about their SNAP cards, the family vacations they couldn't take otherwise, etc.

And don't underestimate the long-term importance of higher income taxes (and inheritance taxes) keeping a class of super-rich people (think old-school European royalty - dukes, etc.) from really taking a firm hold in the USA. Yes, those higher taxes are cruel and patently unfair to the wealthy that work their butts off to get into the top 10%, but they are an unfortunate necessity in a society where too many of the super rich don't share their wealth domestically. Instead, they ship the money out to other countries - all in the name of increased profits, to feed Wall Street's insatiable need for higher stock prices. (Why can't a company's growing profits be re-invested back into society via more R&D expenditures and wages while still turning a handsome profit? Why this unending need for increased profit at the expense of everything else?)

Disclaimer: I'm a GOP guy that loves balanced budgets and is sick of ideological rot within my own party.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah me too.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Javagator]

Since corporations are people, they can pay their fare share.

Bill Gates doesn’t pay Microsoft’s taxes. You and I pay it in the form of higher prices when we buy Microsoft Word. The corporate income tax is a regressive tax that falls more on the poor. It amazes me that people can’t see this.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since corporations are people, they can pay their fare share.

You seem to be missing the /s tag, because corporations don't pay taxes. The people who buy their products do, in the form of higher prices.

Re: Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Earned Income credit requires earned income to qualify. That's how it gets the name.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[KGIII]

I, and presumably you, can not even worry (though we might not like it) if they take 20% of our income. If you take $2000 out of $10000 that's must more painful than taking $20,000 out of $100,000.

If the subject is a business, it's actually pretty easy to avoid making much of a profit at all. For example, if you own your own business then just pay yourself a salary and pay the taxes on that. The business isn't taxed, really, you are. To the IRS, that's a legitimate business expense. Open a new office, give folks a raise, or whatever and those become expenses and the profit is less... Then, well, you add in depreciation and all sorts of things - it gets pretty damned complicated.

Which leads to this: Those who can better afford it are more able to take advantage of the loopholes. I don't think it's possible to set up a tax system that does not have potential for abuse. Sadly, those who can benefit the most are the least able to afford the professionals to do their taxes. I recommend everyone hire an accountant and pay a lawyer, and I recommend that they consider incorporation, but many people can't justify the expense. Oddly enough, they probably *could* justify the expense (in many cases) based on how much they'll save but many folks don't seem to look at it like that.

Finally, I've said this before but I think it bears repeating, I don't think my government has an income problem so much as it has a spending problem. I have no problem with the amount I pay in taxes and could easily bear a higher tax burden but I'm not just going to give it to them so long as I can (legally) avoid it. We've got enough bombers, aircraft carriers, and tanks.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[KGIII]

The problem with that reasoning is that it's entirely irrational. Yes, some of what you pay for a product goes to pay the taxes. Your income comes from where? Would you say that you employer pays the income taxes for Microsoft when you buy a product from them? The business gets its income from where? Would you say your employer's customers pay your employer, who pays you your salary, who buys Word which portions of the sales price going to the taxes that Microsoft pays? And who pays the person who purchased the products made by your employer?

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Dragon Bait]

Your alternative proposal would scrap the rules, which means every business large and small would be finding new ways to barter efficiently.

Barter is considered income -- and is subject to the same income tax.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up retard

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[ebvwfbw]

Since corporations are people, they can pay their fare share.

Run a corporation for a while, then tell me about them having to pay their fair share. You'll find they pay plenty. I'm sure way more than you imagine.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

Run a corporation for a while, then tell me about them having to pay their fair share.

A former boss converted his masonry company from a sole proprietorship to a corporation. He paid significantly less in taxes as an individual for drawing a salary, Since he set up a qualified retirement, he stashed away about $53,000 in corporate profits each year. The only significant tax burden that the corporation had was salaries and worker comp.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[ebvwfbw]

A former boss converted his masonry company from a sole proprietorship to a corporation. He paid significantly less in taxes as an individual for drawing a salary, Since he set up a qualified retirement, he stashed away about $53,000 in corporate profits each year. The only significant tax burden that the corporation had was salaries and worker comp.

Sole prop.... That's not a very smart thing to have done. That's like a business 101 mistake.

Does he realize that he's paying taxes on that money twice? I bet he doesn't or he wouldn't have said that, or you misunderstood what he said. Sure, his individual tax could be lower, however that money was already taxed at the corporate level at the higher rate. You're not comparing apples to apples.

If he had any brains, he had is SP set up such that his finances and the companies are in the same pot. I'm sure he had it set up that way where he is. As it is now, money is taxed at the corporate level, then he has to pay taxes on what he receives. So before max tax would be 35%. Now it's likely going to be 70%. It's like a double tax. Really depends, on a LOT of things.

That's why I said open up a business and then we can discuss it. We work very very very hard for what we get. Sure, some guys make a great deal of money. However they went through a lot and paid a LOT in taxes to get there. One way or another they paid a lot. Oh and by the way, that $53,000 in profits - he has to pay at least 15% tax on that. Depends on how he did it. Dividend, capital gain, etc. He didn't just get that money tax free. Sooner or later they will get their cut. If he thinks he doesn't have to pay taxes on that, they'll catch up with him. When they do, it won't be pretty. I know a former CEO that is still trying to pay off about $750K settlement for some stuff he didn't declare right.

BTW, if you do run a company - get legal advice. It's always cheaper to get good (you paid for it and the guy knows what he's doing) legal advice rather than being caught in violation. It's easy to get in trouble as well.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[SuricouRaven]

How many pages of regulations are required to cover barter?

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[stealth_finger]

>> they can pay their fare share

It looks like we should also continue to invest in education. That would be the only "fair" thing to do.

Maybe he was talking about the taxi ride to the tax office?

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[__aaclcg7560]

Sole prop.... That's not a very smart thing to have done. That's like a business 101 mistake.

His grandfather and father ran the business as a sole proprietorship for 50 years. He converted it to a corporation because his CPA showed him how it would his overall tax bill by two-thirds as an individual taxpayer.

Oh and by the way, that $53,000 in profits - he has to pay at least 15% tax on that.

My understanding with his qualified retirement plan is that his paycheck contributions are pre-tax dollars and the corporate contributions are expense deductions.

He didn't just get that money tax free. Sooner or later they will get their cut.

He took salary and paid taxes on that, which was significantly less than being taxed as a sole proprietorship. The corporation paid whatever taxes it had to pay on what little profit was left over after expenses at year end.

He didn't just get that money tax free. Sooner or later they will get their cut.

He'll pay taxes when he starts drawing on his retirement account.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Dragon Bait]

How many pages of regulations are required to cover barter?

Not to sound like a presidential candidate, but what difference does it make?

You can use the existing regulation defining barter and still get rid of tons of the tax code.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[SuricouRaven]

Because it ruins the rhetoric. Simplification of the tax code is certainly possible, but anyone who claims they can 'get it down to thirty pages' or that you'll be able to write your tax return 'on the back of a postcard' are making promises that they cannot deliver on, and trying to deliver on them would be disastrous.

Re:Hillary, is that you?

[Dragon Bait]

you'll be able to write your tax return 'on the back of a postcard' are making promises that they cannot deliver on

1. How much did you make, including from barter:
2. Multiply line 1 by 0.20 and write that amount here:
3. Enter the amount withheld:
4. Subtract line 3 from line 2, this is how much you owe:

The obvious direction...

[Frosty Piss]

A re-branded version of some popular Linux distro...

Re:The obvious direction...

[Zephyn]

Red Ushanka?

Re:The obvious direction...

[Austerity Empowers]

Maybe RedHat Siberian. Ships with a 20 year old kernel, nothing but Vi (no Vi, not Vim) and if you attempt to run binaries that require root privileges your home directory will be mapped to dev null and you will be logged out. Permanently.

Re:The obvious direction...

[Chris Mattern]

What's funny about it? It's not like it hasn't been done before, although China did eventually drop Red Flag Linux...

Re:The obvious direction...

[avandesande]

Poloniumto?

Re:The obvious direction...

[Penguinisto]

Being that it's Russian, they will of course only have one binary on the box: EMACS. You'll have to do everything with it.

Re:The obvious direction...

[Anonymous Coward]

Lenix

Re:The obvious direction...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stalinux.

Re:The obvious direction...

[tnk1]

Luckily, they totally can use it for everything... provided that they can figure out the right command-meta key sequence to do it with.

Re:The obvious direction...

[uncle slacky]

No, ReactOS.

Re: The obvious direction...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop giving them ideas.

oh!

Pulinux

(Say it out loud)

Re:The obvious direction...

[rtb61]

Most likely a newly minted Linux distribution managed by a government department and an association of Russian universities, quite simply the most logical way for a country to manage it's core operating system. As you pay those Universities to in part manage and develop the operating system (a government department would do the admin and hosting), your fund the professors and incorporate the operating system directly into the students curricula and masters and doctoral students along with professors can make contributions to the operating system and commercially establish their credentials (keeps them on the bleeding edge and in best position to apply their knowledge upon completing the course). This of course should extend to core computer software, the expanded office suite. Word processor, spreadsheet, presentation suite, graphics, animation, database, cad/cam (cad/cam especially because of industrial espionage) and planning software (again because of espionage).

Pretty much any country that wants to be considered independent of foreign corporate dominance (they are foreign to everyone once they become multinationals), should be doing exactly the same thing. When it comes down to global trillion dollar tax fraud and pain and suffering brought about by austerity lies, well, we all know exactly what the honest and just legal response should really be, extended custodial sentences together with confiscation and liquidation of assets (individual and corporate).

Can Russia produce a better OS, why not, they certainly can make a better jet but of course no where near a super profitable as the current US tribute jet (the one countries have to buy or else, nothing more than a blatant tribute demand).

Re:The obvious direction...

[Anonymous Coward]

Brilliant! When is our Govt. going to do the same?

Re:The obvious direction...

[Anonymous Coward]

cause its born and mostly maintained by people in the united state, jeez

Re:The obvious direction...

[unixisc]

No, ReactOS!!!

Re:The obvious direction...

[Grishnakh]

nothing but Vi (no Vi, not Vim)

Linux has never had vi included in any distro to my knowledge. It's always been vim, and/or some other vi clone like elvis. vi has only ever been included with actual UNIXes like Solaris. The copyright to vi was owned by AT&T so it was illegal to include it with Linux, or even with *BSD. This did change in 2002 according to Wikipedia and some guy resurrected it as "Traditional vi", and added a lot of features to it, but no one actually uses that.

Re:The obvious direction...

[Grishnakh]

It's not like they need to do a lot of work: Linux and its distros already exist, along with open-source versions of most of the software you list there. All a government has to do is adopt it, and maybe do a few customizations.

Re:The obvious direction...

[lsatenstein]

A re-branded version of some popular Linux distro...

http://mirror.yandex.ru/fedora...

Re:The obvious direction...

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems to me that what the Russians are most likely to do is make their own version of a much used Linux Kernel. RedHat Siberian comes to mind. Indeed there are so many of these available that they don't even have to go to that much trouble. Just download one and use it. They don't even have to worry about breach of copyright. What the communists would have done would be to steal an old copy of the source to Microsoft Windows and then try to present it as their own. There are those of who may remember the Concordski, which crashed at the Paris air show in 1978 because of a technical flaw that had also existed in Concord but had been found and removed years before. I don't know why we care what the Russians use in there computers unless it has the potential to cause problems for us as well. What are they controlling with these systems? Will they initiate a missile launch because of a bug? Will their stock market crash because of panic selling. Bad software can do so much more than muck up a production schedule these days.

Banning Microsoft in order generate income for Russia seems to be a good idea for them at least. If they can do it well and sell it well they may even generate some export income as well. Having Russia making its own money and not selling oil to terrorists in the middle east would appear to be of benefit to all of us, withe the exception of the aforementioned terrorists.

Re:The obvious direction...

[rtb61]

The whole idea is to maintain that bleeding edge education style. So the institution of higher learning are right on the forefront of actual commercial and social application and the students come out with a big head start. Also it aids in providing funding for those institutions ie instead of paying software licence fees, all that money is funnelled straight back into computer research and higher education. So it is not just about the operating system but about a whole technological eco-system to place Australian education and business at the forefront of computer technology (trying to strike as many birds as possible with one 'hmm' hand full of stones). So somewhat complex and no saving on what we are currently spending but rather than an empty investment it provides a huge socio-economic return (it is the building developer in me, trying to achieve as much cost efficiency as possible and that does not mean spending less but getting the highest possible return on the appropriate investment).

Re:The obvious direction...

[beastofburdon]

This could actually be a great boon to the oss community, especially when it comes to CAD style programs. We are seriously lacking in this area.

And?

[present_arms]

What's the downside?

Re:And?

[buchner.johannes]

Exactly. With the privacy blunder Microsoft committed with Windows 10, plus its NSA collaboration, it is not unreasonable for other countries to ban Windows for government work and spend the money on alternatives.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

The downside is, if you want to use any Russian-made software / hardware, the price will go up when the US slaps its own tax on Russian goods.

So, really, it just hurts Kaspersky.

Re:And?

[gstoddart]

When the US government is in court with Microsoft over how they could use secret laws to claim Microsoft has to break the laws of other countries ... I fail to see how Microsoft, or any US company, can really be trusted.

This seems an entirely prudent response from Russia. I'm actually surprised more companies aren't actively wondering just how much Microsoft and others can be controlled by the US government.

When the US government is actively trying to ensure backdoors in encryption and the like, why would you assume there aren't any? You think these companies are going to make the international version with no US spying capabilities?

Good luck with that.

Re:And?

[bill_mcgonigle]

If you're in the US, losing the entire Russian government market is a blow to the balance of trade and local economy. This single contract is just representative of everything that's happening across the industry - it's far larger.

But Americans seem to WANT NSL's and are willing to sacrifice the entire tech sector, the basis of their economic growth, for an increased police state. Maybe they'll get to pick the size of their grey tunics.

Re:And?

[gstoddart]

But Americans seem to WANT NSL's and are willing to sacrifice the entire tech sector, the basis of their economic growth, for an increased police state.

Actually, I worry they'd want it both ways ... to keep their NSLs, and then to say "hey, you can't stop buying stuff from us, you signed a trade agreement".

There seems to be a belief they can base all of their economic growth on tech, but undermine and cripple it by making it unable to be trusted ... with the unsurprising outcome of not being able to link the two.

Re:And?

[JBMcB]

The price will go up for IT stuff in Russia, too. Brazil tried to do the same thing in the 1980's, and they wound up with $1000 Commodore 64 clones.

Re:And?

[jader3rd]

I'm actually surprised more companies aren't actively wondering just how much Microsoft and others can be controlled by the US government.

It's probably because if you're a big enough player, Microsoft will let you go over any and all of the source code that it has. So if your people can't find an NSA backdoor in the Windows source, your people probably aren't going find one in any other OS's source.

Re:And?

[LichtSpektren]

I'm actually surprised more companies aren't actively wondering just how much Microsoft and others can be controlled by the US government.

It's probably because if you're a big enough player, Microsoft will let you go over any and all of the source code that it has. So if your people can't find an NSA backdoor in the Windows source, your people probably aren't going find one in any other OS's source.

Source code is meaningless if you don't compile the binaries yourself. AFAIK Microsoft has never allowed anybody to do so.

Re:And?

[Ravaldy]

Not if their objectives are security. It will cost more money than the licensing itself and probably won't pay for itself in a while but at least they'll have piece of mind. At least until the next hard drive hack by the NSA.

What amazes me is the lack of cooperation between Russia and the US. Bunch of children throwing rocks at each other.

Re:And?

[gstoddart]

Dude, it's turtles all the way down.

If your secret law which requires you to lie about not having backdoors is invoked, you also have to lie about how people can check that you don't have backdoors. The presence of the secret law which says "you can't tell them about this" pretty much means there is no scenario in which you say "oh, well, gee, they're awesome and trustworthy".

By definition, the US government has taken the public stance that results in the conclusion "NO US COMPANY CAN BE TRUSTED".

Because as soon as you assert your laws trump the laws of the countries in which Microsoft etc do business, you essentially force everyone else to have to conclude "fuck you, go away, we now must assume you're not following the law".

I don't care how fucking big of a player you are, when Uncle Sam can compel them to lie ... you must assume they're lying, and that they couldn't tell you they were lying if they wanted to. Auditing about an NSA backdoor can't be trusted if the laws which would place such a hypothetical back door prevent you from admitting to that back door.

If Microsoft loses this case:

The US government's contention is that it can demand electronic data anywhere US companies keep them, and that it doesn't need to ask a local jurisdiction's permission. A magistrate and a federal judge have agreed. If Microsoft doesn't prevail in the appeal, Smith said it will go to the US Supreme Court.

nobody outside of the US can ever trust a US company ever again.

It really is that simple. Claiming auditing fixes this misses the entire point. Auditing in this case is a fucking fairy tale.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I worry they'd want it both ways ... to keep their NSLs, and then to say "hey, you can't stop buying stuff from us, you signed a trade agreement".

Trade agreements don't work like that.

It's an agreement for Party A to sell (with limited encumbrance) in Party B's market.
It doesn't mean Party A can insist that entities in Party B's market purchase things.

Particularly, the Russian government can say, "F U Microsoft, GTFO" and not spend a single dollar on Microsoft anything. Totally legit.
However, if they said, "Microsoft can't sell any products in Russia whatsoever." Not legit; that would be a violation of the trade agreement.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who is to say the US will impose retaliatory tariffs on Russia? You know Trump won't if he is prez, since he loves Putin anyway . . . Obama might, though.

Re:And?

[Archfeld]

I work for one of M$'s largest enterprise customers. We had at one time the largest M$ email implementation in the world (that may have changed) and while they will bend over backwards adding special features and such for us, and provide excellent support, I've never seen one line of source code, nor have I ever heard of anyone who has at my place of business. Not that I'm saying it doesn't or hasn't happened...

Re: And?

[Anonymous Coward]

These days the goods would be purchased through a side channel. Adds a small amount extra in postage.

Australians do this now. It is cheaper to pretend to buy inside America then third party ship it than to buy the same goods in Oz.

Ukrain could make a fortune being the middle man?

Re:And?

[shawn2772]

Do you have any evidence that the US government can compel companies to lie? It can compel them to be silent, certainly, but I've seen no evidence that it has any legal basis for compelling lies.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

Source code is meaningless if you don't compile the binaries yourself. AFAIK Microsoft has never allowed anybody to do so.

Exactly! If you don't compile (exactly same version, exactly same compiler,...) , you cannot check that they in fact gave you "sanitized" source instead of the real thing.

Open source is nicer in that you can check everything. Unlike the Chinese, Russia has the skills, the will and the manpower to do what they want.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

The downside is a lack of productivity of your users. Hours can be wasted just getting a printer or accessory to work. Remember the general public is not a logical Linux user or sophisticated techy.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey this could be great then! I have an old Commodore Amiga and could sell it for big $$$ then!

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

The flip side is if the Russian Government can further sponsor the development of a "Linux" distro which is not spyware other Counties and people would use it.

I don't particularly trust the Russian Government but if the distro wasn't encumbered with spyware and took a better direction than some existing distros I would use it.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

Insightful my ass. Name one government backdoor purposely built-in to Windows. There are plenty of ways to hack any OS but no one has ever identified this magical backdoor into Windows. And if you know that these backdoors exist you will have to provide details and if you have these details others must be using this same backdoor instead of wasting quality family time trying to hack Windows. And you honestly think the US is the only country in the world with spy agencies that break every law in the book when it comes to spying on foreign governments? The EU and it's sanctimonious preaching about the US being able to collect data on EU citizens totally ignore the fact that it was their own spy agencies that cooperated with the US and passed on the data they themselves purloined from their citizens. If you honestly think the FSB is trust worthy then the US or any other government it's time to put down the bong. Russia's internet is 100% state controlled and monitored. They are probably more adapt then China when it comes to keeping the proles misinformed because their population is no where near the size of China's or even the US populations. Maybe we can all put our trust in China or how about the most prolific industrial espionage operations being run out of France. If Russia want's to develop their own OS I have to ask why in the hell it has taken 30 years just to get started? And what are these secret laws you are referring to? If you have the details please state them but realize if you do then these secret laws can not really be described as secret. So in conclusion you will need to backup your claims of "secret" backdoors and "secret laws" while also realizing no one, foreign or domestic, has placed trust into the NSA, CIA, or even the entire US government. And how would anyone say they "trust" any organization whose charter demands they conduct clandestine intelligence operations whose exploits never see the light of day. I would also keep in mind that even with all the information already published about these agencies the really dark secrets have not even come close to seeing the light of day.

Re:And?

[KGIII]

Microsoft's Shared Source Initiative has enabled you to see source code for something like ten years now. You need only to sign up, sign an NDA, and give them a reason to request the source you're wanting to see. I've never had a request denied and I've used "because I'm curious" as the reason. You can modify the source all you want, of course. You can't release it and I don't think you're allowed to actually edit it, recompile it, and use it.

So, you can't do a whole lot with it but you can see it. Some of it. I don't believe they make it all available, I've never asked for everything. If you've never seen a single line of the source then you could just try asking them. Actually, Wikipedia indicates the program is about 15 years old now.

Re:And?

[fizzer06]

You can modify but not edit the source?

Re:And?

[Archfeld]

Really ?? That's good to know I'll look into it. We've had them provide specific tools and in-house addons for email stuff, especially for large scale mailing list management and tools designed to manage PHB's 'distribution list' skills. A company wide reply all storm can be a killer on your mail structure and intranet in general when 2 or 3 levels of management decide to visibly 'concur' on a subject without regard to the scope of whom they are replying.

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

And the great upshot, is that thousands of international companies will be forced to uproot their centralised cloud-based HR, accounting and communications from their current US providers. Over here in Euroland, our company passes ALL of our HR data to the USA, and ALL of our email to the UK. Not for long.
You guys pass that law, you're going to lose BILLIONS.
Hahahahahahahahahaha ...... thanks for the economic boost, our local IT guys will love you to the end of the earth :)

Re:And?

[KGIII]

Yeah, it's real. Google will help you find it - just highlight, right-click, and search. It might even be something simple like /sharedsource/ appended to the URL. I don't actually know *what* you'll do with the code but if you've got a reason to look at it then you can do so. I've done so but not because I had any meaningful reason to do so but because I wanted to make sure they weren't making shit up when the program first started.

Microsoft has had it's own "open source" (note the quotes) license for quite a while now and there are a variety of subsets to that. I'm not positive but I think I recall reading that one particular subset even made the FSF list as "open." However, I think they've kind of abandoned that and moved things to the MIT or BSD style? I'm not really sure - I can look it up for you if you're curious and unable to find it on your own.

The thing is, I've mentioned this on Slashdot at least 100 times now. I had an older account, wandered around for a while, returned, forgot my username (it had numbers), and don't have access to that old email address. I do, on the other hand, know the old email address. I mentioned this when it first happened - on this site. Don't laugh, I was still participating as a Microsoft MVP back then which is why I know about the program. I was physically there when they announced it.

I didn't even have a good reason when I read some of the code. I've read a few good sized chunks. You just tell 'em what you want, give 'em a good reason, and wait. It has never taken long and none of the requests that I've made have been denied. I've heard of, not used, "I feel like it" as being an accepted reason. I'd suggest, more so if you want larger chunks of it, using a *good* and descriptive reason. I can't say that I've used it since 2005-ish? I imagine it hasn't changed much. They don't appear overwhelmed and, considering you're the umpteenth person to indicate that they'd never heard of it, I'm inclined to think people just haven't taken the time to look. Without exaggeration, I'd suspect I mention this at least once a month as an average. It's almost a ritual for me. :/

One of my favorites?

"Fact: You can not see one single line of Window's source code!"

Well, you can... You can't really *do* anything with it specifically, but you can read it. I consider it my social duty inform people - sometimes I get moderated down for pointing it out. I'm generally just as polite as I am being now. *shrugs* I don't actually mind, I just find it curious.

Oh - after a quick preview... No, I don't accept or strive to receive the MS MVP awards any longer. I've since switched entirely to Linux, had some changes in life, and lost interest in repeating myself over and over and over again. I used to trawl the newsgroups (MS hosts their own) and lend a hand. I had a big site with a rather large forum. The perks were nice. You get the full-blown MSDN, with a special license, hardware, a "gift," access too and credit for the company store, invited to Redmond each year, invited to lots of smaller things, get some speaking engagements (if you want), and get to network with a bunch of insiders and have access to a whole lot of other things. I didn't switch to Linux out of idealism - as I've mentioned before. I switched because I was no longer learning anything and my brain was turning into mush.

Re:And?

[KGIII]

You missed the "and." You can't edit it, recompile it, and use it. At least not as far as I know. I don't know if they have any way to prove you've done so but I think their license does not allow for such. You're free to modify it all you want - it's just kind of pointless to do so. You can change all the variables to "SendToNSA" if you want. You just can't compile it, distribute it, and I don't think you're even allowed to take screen shots of your new handiwork.

Re:And?

[Grishnakh]

What about the lack of productivity due to Windows? I remember wasting at least a whole day at a job a couple years ago trying to get a large network printer (Ricoh I think) to work with Windows, because of various driver and security problems. The corporate IT department had to come out several times to try to get it working, and finally ended up doing some weird backwards method. In Linux, getting a network printer to work is easy.

Good idea for all governments

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not Russian or from Russia but this is a good idea for them and any government that respects their own security and stability.

Good idea

[LichtSpektren]

Any government interested in keeping its data and secrets safe but runs Windows is likely populated by imbeciles.

Hopefully Russian computer scientists will focus on either making ReactOS a usable replacement (better for us in the West trying to dump Windows), or making their own Linux distro (I suggest they call it... Kremlinux), which will likely be better for them in the long run.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

See the other comment at -1

There are already contacts made high up in the Russian government regarding funding the remaining ReactOS development.

Re:Good idea

[DeltaQH]

PutinLinux?

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Kremlinux - nice one, mate!

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Putinux would be better.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, and that is why those Republicans keep forcing us to run Windows. In my state, you are required to use Windows to file your taxes. They make you give money to Microsoft in order to be allowed to use their web site. That is just so typical of those Republicans.

Re:Good idea

[LVSlushdat]

Reminds me of kremvax... guess that kinda dates me...

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I favor Kaputnix

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

ReactOS is a horrible Windows XP clone, what's the point of that operating system in the 21st century?

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Any government interested in keeping its data and secrets safe but runs Windows is likely populated by imbeciles.

And anyone who hasn't worked with government enough doesn't understand the value of interoperability, which is a concept they hammer on a lot.

Believe me government knows UNIX and mainframe, so they sure as shit don't run Windows because it's more secure than available alternatives. It's because it fucking works with other agencies, departments, and divisions, and the cost of re-training the average Windows user to run alternatives has proven to be an unmitigated bitch.

Re:Good idea

[CrashNBrn]

Windows 2000.

Re:Good idea

[LichtSpektren]

ReactOS is a horrible Windows XP clone, what's the point of that operating system in the 21st century?

Proprietary legacy applications with no *nix support. There's billions of dollars invested in it.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

So the government can't switch away from Windows, because they need to be interoperable... with themselves? Well, that does seem like government logic, indeed. I'm so glad I pay taxes so that these virtuous and profoundly intelligent people can watch over my safety.

Re:Good idea

[The-Ixian]

StaLinux?

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

So the government can't switch away from Windows, because they need to be interoperable... with themselves? Well, that does seem like government logic, indeed. I'm so glad I pay taxes so that these virtuous and profoundly intelligent people can watch over my safety.

I'm not quite sure what is more ignorant here, not grasping the value of dozens of government agencies needing to be interoperable with themselves, or your complete lack of understanding just who the hell uses Windows on this planet, as if the majority of companies today are running fucking BSD or some shit.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You know that Windows XP is a 21st-century operating system, right?

Re:Good idea

[gstoddart]

Uputintu?

Re:Good idea

[LichtSpektren]

So the government can't switch away from Windows, because they need to be interoperable... with themselves? Well, that does seem like government logic, indeed. I'm so glad I pay taxes so that these virtuous and profoundly intelligent people can watch over my safety.

I'm not quite sure what is more ignorant here, not grasping the value of dozens of government agencies needing to be interoperable with themselves, or your complete lack of understanding just who the hell uses Windows on this planet, as if the majority of companies today are running fucking BSD or some shit.

A government can impose interoperability by mandating use of a single OS.

You're of course obviously right that Windows is the dominant desktop OS on the planet, but you're quite wrong if you think the average pleb is incapable of using a *nix. You think the accountants and legal teams in Apple, IBM, Google, Red Hat, etc. are using Windows?

Re:Good idea

[LichtSpektren]

And what state would that be?

Re:Good idea

[tnk1]

You think the accountants and legal teams in Apple, IBM, Google, Red Hat, etc. are using Windows?

Maybe not the ones at Apple, but I totally believe the accountants and lawyers at the rest of them are using Windows. Maybe some MacOS too, but they're sure as shit not using Linux distros for their Desktop applications.

Re:Good idea

[LichtSpektren]

You think the accountants and legal teams in Apple, IBM, Google, Red Hat, etc. are using Windows?

Maybe not the ones at Apple, but I totally believe the accountants and lawyers at the rest of them are using Windows. Maybe some MacOS too, but they're sure as shit not using Linux distros for their Desktop applications.

Would you care to bet your life on that?

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the ones at Google either. Or RH. IBM maybe.

Why? Google, RH both have policies banning Windows as insecure from anything but a compatibility lab.

Re:Good idea

[iampiti]

I've been following ReactOS for years and I'd like it to succeed as much as anyone but they have a very long way to go. Making a Windows clone is a huge task and they have a pretty small number of developers and hence the progress is slow.
Also, you can bet that if they got close to being a decent Windows substitute they'd be sued into Oblivion by Microsoft.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't talk to me about "policies". Those go straight in the trash when someone needs to actually get things done. There's a reason people still use Windows, and it isn't because it's secure or friendly.

Look under a few rocks, and you'll find the cockroaches there, their drives spinning away, running some reporting software that they cannot get working in linux.

Re:Good idea

[k6mfw]

the cost of re-training the average Windows user to run alternatives has proven to be an unmitigated bitch.

I was talking with someone who works for some firm that does a lot of contracting work for the PUC, she reviews documents using MS Word and the editing features (i.e. comments in red along the margins) along with many others. She calls herself a "cube rat" because it is typical cubicle workspace in an office. Anyway now and then Microsoft comes out with updated version of Office and her company immediately updates all the PCs with new program, etc. This causes everyone grief because the commands they all been used to are now different (and the company does not provide resources for re-training). "Microsoft and management don't understand. People that use MS Office are like monkeys. They have been trained to do specific tasks, when the tools are changed then they become helpless."

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawsuits wouldn't matter, especially if nobody tries "selling" ReactOS outside of Russia anyway. MS can try to sue the Russian government in Russia, and get what exactly? Nothing.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Khrushchevix. Bangs its shoe on the table. (Not as violent as throwing chairs.)

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to get out more. Both Scottish and French police uses Linux for their desktops IIRC. I doubt they are all some kind of computer gurus.

I also like how you flat out denies that _anyone_ non-guru could use Linux on their desktop, without as much as a single reason - "It simply cannot be". That's called "denial", you might want to see someone about that before it gets worse.

You MS proponents are always so funny, if one listens to you, the world would fall apart if someone somewhere didn't use Windows, and nobody normal is capable of using any other word processor than Microsoft Word.

The fact is, that for decades, normal, non comp-sci, users used a CLI OS, it was called "DOS". Some even used some version of *gasp* UNIX, usually SCO or XENIX: People used various kinds of word processors, Word Perfect, WordStar and a bunch of others. And guess what? The world kept spinning, and shit got done, just as today. People learned and adapted, and got skills and knowledge. Not like you, who only want a free lunch.

Point is, they could learn to use all these rather messy and quirky systems to good effect. Now you say it's just plain impossible for people learn anything but Microsoft's latest steaming pile of shite. GTFO.

Or are you seriously arguing that one of the better modern desktop distributions + Libre Office actually isn't more easily approachable than Word Perfect was on DOS back in the day? Is it not as effective for writing that notice in the coffee room, you know the "Your mom doesn't work here" one, as MS Word?

Or, maybe, just maybe, are you just afraid that all Microsoft trained hell-desk monkeys like you will become redundant...

Re:Good idea

[cfalcon]

You seem a little overboard with your rant, but I find my id called to it nonetheless.

I particularly like your point about comparing LibreOffice to older versions of Word. That point doesn't get NEARLY enough play. Computers have gotten better, but the amount that the UI has improved in the last decade or two is nowhere close to the improvements we've seen to processing power, RAM, and most especially hard drive storage and data transfer. A step backwards in any of those areas of computing would have ramifications, but a step "backwards" in UI would make vastly less difference. LibreOffice Writer isn't as powerful as MS Office Word, but if you had to make the switch tomorrow, you'd be fine. The only thing you might regret? Inability to read and MS Word documents. The lockin, the rent seek, that's all Microsoft really has. If everyone was using LibreOffice Writer tomorrow, the world would be the exact goddamned same for everyone- they'd just pay a bit less.

Re:Good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I'm not actually comparing LibreOffice to older versions of MS Word, even though I'm a the firm believer in the idea that someone should get shot for inflicting the ribbon on us.. Ahem. Back to topic. I'm saying, "Look, mugglers could use Word Perfect, on fucking DOS perfectly fine, but now you're saying they are too stupid these days to learn LibreWriter on $DESKTOP_DISTRO? Not bloody likely."

As you say, inability to _reliably_ read MS documents would be the drawback, but OTOH, it's not like Word is famous for its compatibility with itself between different versions either so meh. Anyone who archives vital documents as .doc[x], will eventually get what they deserve whether they keep using Microsoft software or not.

And no, I'm not ranting, I'm sarcastic. Since you're not the first to say that, I guess it's a difficult thing to spot. :)

Re:Good idea

[xuvetyn]

"Any government interested in keeping its data and secrets safe but runs Windows is likely populated by imbeciles." wouldn't that be the US gov't too? -sad face-

OSX

[110010001000]

Let me guess: he owns a Mac.

Re:OSX

[Penguinisto]

I doubt it - it ties far more closely to the overall Russian drive towards nationalistic solutions and tendencies. Even though Linux (we all know that's what they'll use) is not purely Russian (or even a fraction of same), it does allow them to fork the kernel and make it that way. Sort of like NoKo's 'Red Flag Linux', but without all the governmental spyware and crippling (well, as far as we know...)

Re:OSX

[LichtSpektren]

Minor correction. North Korea's internal Linux distro is called "Red Star OS". China's Linux distro was once called "Red Flag Linux", but they have since switched to Ubuntu Kylin.

Re:OSX

[110010001000]

Yes, but *this* guy probably owns a Mac. These elitist types always do.

Re:OSX

[110010001000]

Minor correction. North Korea's Linux distro is called "Pulgunbyol"

Re:OSX

[Anonymous Coward]

but without all the governmental spyware and crippling

Ha ha, good one, comrade. You are in making the laughter.

Re:OSX

[Anonymous Coward]

He is an old KBG agent. You can bet your life on him being paranoid beyond what is healthy.
He doesn't run anything that he doesn't have full control over and he doesn't care about idealism.

Re:OSX

[Chris Mattern]

Yes, but *this* guy probably owns a Mac. These elitist types always do.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/c...

Re:OSX

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though Linux (we all know that's what they'll use) is not purely Russian (or even a fraction of same)

That is just a matter of time. After the occupation Finland has always been a Russian province.

Re:OSX

[Anonymous Coward]

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, laughter makes YOU!

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, spyware runs YOU!

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, malware infects YOU!

Russian reversal trifecta, da tovarich.

Re:OSX

[Grishnakh]

AFAIC, the only reason every government isn't using their own internal Linux distro is either corruption or incompetence. Windows is well-known to be loaded with spyware now; you'd have to be a complete loon to think that Windows isn't spying on you, considering it's publicly acknowledged that they do. So why would you run your government systems, with critical or classified information, on such an OS, instead of one which you have full control over? That's aside from the issue of how much money you'd save by not sending it to a foreign country, and instead employing your own people to maintain your governmentOS.

And he wants a pony too

[Anonymous Coward]

Putin can want all these things, but when you have a centrally controlled, corrupt government you'll never get what he is looking for. Watch the Ruble drop even further than it already has...

Follow the Chinese

[Your Anus]

They rolled their own Linux distro to get away from Windows.

Re:Follow the Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

They rolled their own distro to make sure they could circumvent popular security measures. But you keep thinking it had anything to do with Microsoft.

Re:Follow the Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

Which, from the perspective of a paranoid, isn't enough. They'll have to dump Intel, or better yet, x86 as well.

Re:Follow the Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

But they don't actually use it. Seems you don't know a lot about the Chinese or how their government operates. Many things are done to create "face", even if there is no substance behind the actions. Hence, walk into any Chinese government outfit and that Linux distro is nowhere to be found. Source: Married to a government official.

Re:Follow the Chinese

[TeknoHog]

The Chinese have been making their own CPUs for years, such as the MIPS compatible Loongson series.

In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Penguinisto]

I can actually see a good reason for Russia dumping Windows... a Linux-based system gives them internal control over the source code to the OS they use - they can fork it and do whatever they want with it internally.

The taxation thing? That's just governments doing what governments tend to do - extract more money from those who produce wealth, especially from outside the borders where it's more politically palatable (and in some cases highly desirable). Shit, they've been doing this for as long as the word "tariff" has existed, and the "on a computer" aspect doesn't really make it all that much different.

Not sure if the pimped local options (e.g. Yandex) are any better or worse, though - only the Russian public can ultimately decide that.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[LichtSpektren]

Some tariffs exist purely as a source of revenue. I think a tax on foreign OSs would moreso be to foster adoption of a home-grown OS with economic incentives.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[bluefoxlucid]

Economists have long understood protectionism as an economic negative. This will destroy wealth.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Escogido]

I'm pretty sure the move to impose additional taxation on the technology giants in Russia has much more to do with the government seeking a way to reciprocate sanctions in a way that hurts than with an actual strategy.

That said, the idea to rid Russian government computers away of US-made software in favor of domestic solutions has been circulated for a while. It still remains to be seen where they are today in their capability to replace the functionality, however forking a free OS and an office suit can't be that hard circa 2016, should an urgent need arise.

And that need ostensibly *could* arise. Apple is happily(?) blocking users in Crimea from accessing their services, which can be viewed as a trial balloon of taking entire Russia off internet services provided in the US, should the international relations continue deteriorating. (I'm not saying it is - just that it can be viewed as such.) Under the circumstances, I would say this direction Kremlin is taking seems to be justified.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[ITRambo]

In general, politicians make poor economists. So, the stupid ideas keep on coming.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because over-reliance on a foreign monopoly is so much better from an economic perspective.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[wjcofkc]

a Linux-based system gives them internal control over the source code to the OS they use - they can fork it and do whatever they want with it internally.

There is a point where the GPL demands code changes be published. This of course will not happen. I'm sure it's just the same with China.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Penguinisto]

The GNU GPL is only going to be as strong as Russia's adherence to the Berne Convention.... take of that what you will.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Anonymous Coward]

And if the wealth is mostly destroyed in a competing foreign country . . .

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[wjcofkc]

All I know is, I am just waiting for a picture of a shirtless Putin on horseback with a laptop mounted on the horses head, personally writing the operating system. While practicing Judo.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Pseudonym Authority]

If economists thought that nuclear war would be good for the economy, they would advocate it. There are things that matter more than GDP (at least in some values systems), and Russia's value system is not any objectively worse than your own.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[bluefoxlucid]

Uh. The maximization of the growth of wealth raises the standard-of-living, which reduces the total human suffering and enables the creation of welfare systems and stable economies. That means less poverty--less homelessness, less hunger, less disease. Are you claiming that reducing the proportion of a population facing death and suffering is not objectively better?

Is a serial killer's value system not objectively worse than your own?

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Grishnakh]

The GPL has no such demand or requirement, that's a myth.

The GPL requires that you make the source code available to anyone you distribute binaries to. If you're making a Linux distro for use in your government, that means you need to make the source code available to your government, which is you. As long as you don't give it to anyone else, there's no problem. There's no reason a government would hand out copies of a government-use-only OS to anyone outside that government (or they could make a special stripped-down version for them if they wanted). Besides, not everything in a Linux distro is GPL.

Re:In Soviet Ru- aww, screw it.

[Anonymous Coward]

In general, politicans make for poor anything.

Nice!

[Anonymous Coward]

First this guy shows up America by bombing ISIS into oblivion - which the US hadn't been able (aka willing) to do in over a year.

Now he wants to ban Windows from government computers?

He's definitely doing something right and setting a good example for other countries - despite being an organized crime sleazebag mobster.

ReactOS, Wine and Linux in Russia

[Anonymous Coward]

The ReactOS Project has made many contacts in the Russian government and there is an effort underway to get the government to fund the remaining development so that they have a domestic alternative to windows that can run the existing application pool.

Linux is still useful and should be present, however the existing pool of legacy applications does not leave many options except to either pay, violate the license or develop some sort of free alternative.

There is also quite a lot of Wine and Parallels development done in Moscow so they really are covering all of their bases with Linux, ReactOS, Wine and being able to virtualize the remaining cases.

Re:ReactOS, Wine and Linux in Russia

[jfdavis668]

It will download and install Windows 10 without your permission anyway.

Re:ReactOS, Wine and Linux in Russia

[unixisc]

Yeah, that's a natural choice for the Kremlin, rather than Linux. With ReactOS, one can at least run legacy Windows software. Once it's beyond Beta

Hmmm ... Czar?

[gstoddart]

In the context of Russia, I find it odd to use the now ubiquitous term "czar" .. a term which is bandied about far too often for no good reason.

I'm pretty sure nobody refers to him as the internet czar in Russia.

Re: Hmmm ... Czar?

[Anonymous Coward]

We call him pidor [ÐÐÐоÑ].
"ÐsÑо ÑÑÐ¾Ñ ÐÐÐоÑ?" is something common folk would reply...

Re:Hmmm ... Czar?

[Escogido]

Yeah, the notion that a czar can be appointed, or self-appointed, just doesn't make any sense to Russians. Funny as this sounds, the expression "internet king" could be a better fit, even though "king" in this context in Russian would imply being #1 in a field rather than having actual authority over others in it.

Re:Hmmm ... Czar?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the context of Russia, I find it odd to use the now ubiquitous term "czar" .. a term which is bandied about far too often for no good reason.

I'm pretty sure nobody refers to him as the internet czar in Russia.

Plenty of Russians consider Czar a positive word. It refers to the good old days before USSR. The USSR leaders on the other hand viewed the Czar and his supporters as the mortal enemy, likely because the Red October was followed by years of civil war against the czar supporters. This leaves the question: does looking down on the word "czar" a sign of communism? It's that or lack of historical knowledge, though it could easily be both.

Re:Hmmm ... Czar?

[gstoddart]

This leaves the question: does looking down on the word "czar" a sign of communism?

No, because it's a massively overused term, which seems completely random and pointless for an over inflated title, and has NOTHING to do with any historical meaning. Think King, Emperor, Dictator, Supreme Leader, High Priestess.

Czar sounds like a bullshit title which is handed out for no defensible reason.

So, much like we don't have Privacy Emperor, and Internet Emperor ... why the hell do we even call these things 'czar'?

It's like some idiot heard a cool word, and then next thing you know everybody is a freaking czar of something. It just seems like a totally misplaced superlative in English, or anywhere else.

Take every place you see the word czar these days, change it for "Asshole", and it's probably a more accurate title.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to do see what the Marital High Priestess wishes to do for dinner.

Re:Hmmm ... Czar?

[ceoyoyo]

Especially Putin.

Re:Hmmm ... Czar?

[ceoyoyo]

"It's like some idiot heard a cool word, and then next thing you know everybody is a freaking czar of something. "

I expect it's not like that at all. It is that. Exactly.

Re:Hmmm ... Czar?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, because it's a massively overused term, which seems completely random and pointless for an over inflated title, and has NOTHING to do with any historical meaning.

You mean the historical meaning of a random family of a Roman gens?

Really, that's all it was.

Oh well, at least his Salad isn't half bad.

Google may just leave if the taxes are high enough

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

Google has a limit to what it will put up with. They pulled out of China rather than deal with government bs there. The Russian government may not care if they leave, but Google may just decide it's not worth the hassle and pull out if the taxes are high enough. Apple would have to weigh whether sales justify the cost of any new taxes. Russia's biggest problem is that they don't really make anything anybody wants except gasoline and natural gas so being protectionist may have short term benefits for the Russian companies that compete but it doesn't really do anything long term about making anybody outside of the USSR, cough cough, sorry I mean Russia, care about their stuff.

Obligatory poster

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

You know which one

Re:Obligatory poster

[Anonymous Coward]

Dang you!

You beat me to it.

Re:Obligatory poster

[Dr_Barnowl]

I love the way the communism is happening on an iMac.

Re:Obligatory poster

[Anonymous Coward]

Fooled the americans, they think we're "coding" open source but we're actually programming free software.

Re:Obligatory poster

[TeknoHog]

http://fire-eyes.org/gal/var/a...
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net...

From a Russian perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

Banning Windows is probably a really good idea.

Re:From a Russian perspective

[110010001000]

Hell, from ANYONES perspective banning Windows is a really good idea!

Re:From a Russian perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

Banning Windows is probably a really good idea.

Banning Windows on the Desktop.

They're going to run Windows in the Cloud!

This is good for America

[micahraleigh]

While our competing companies in Russia or spending their cycles mounting the CD drive from the command line and rebuilding the kernel to fix GPU failures, we'll be adding the innovation customers in a free market would choose to buy.

Re:This is good for America

[LichtSpektren]

While our competing companies in Russia or spending their cycles mounting the CD drive from the command line and rebuilding the kernel to fix GPU failures, we'll be adding the innovation customers in a free market would choose to buy.

I haven't ever had to mount a CD from the terminal or rebuild my kernel, but it's nice that those options are available in case I need to.

Guess how fucked you are if your CD or GPU are malfunctioning in Windows?

Re:This is good for America

[StormReaver]

While our competing companies in Russia or spending....

There is so much wrong with that posting that I don't know where to start. But the short list:

...mounting the CD drive from the command line....

While that always remains an option for those so inclined, it hasn't been necessary on major desktop Linux distribution for many years.

...rebuilding the kernel to fix GPU failures...

While that always remains an option for those so inclined, it hasn't been necessary on major desktop Linux distribution for many years.

...we'll be adding the innovation...

By "we'll", I presume you mean Microsoft. Microsoft hasn't been innovative in any positive manner in over 20 years.

...customers in a free market would choose to buy.

We haven't had a free market in operating systems in over 25 years, which is about the time frame that Bill Gates forced computer manufacturers to put only Windows on computers.

My favorite part of the article was when the writer said that it was unclear why Russia wouldn't want Windows on government computers. I almost laughed out loud. The writer actually phrased it in such a way as to imply that Russia would somehow be inflicting harm on itself by kicking Windows out.

Re:This is good for America

[minus9]

"While our competing companies in Russia or spending their cycles mounting the CD drive from the command line and rebuilding the kernel to fix GPU failures, we'll be adding the innovation customers in a free market would choose to buy."

Perhaps we could innovate a functioning grammar checker?

Re:This is good for America

[Anonymous Coward]

We haven't had a free market in operating systems in over 25 years, which is about the time frame that Bill Gates forced computer manufacturers to put only Windows on computers.

My favorite part of the article was when the writer said that it was unclear why Russia wouldn't want Windows on government computers. I almost laughed out loud. The writer actually phrased it in such a way as to imply that Russia would somehow be inflicting harm on itself by kicking Windows out.

Really? Bill Gates hold your family hostage so you couldn't build your own PC and load Linux or go out and buy a Mac? People have always had alternatives, they are just not as simple or cheap as buying the "Black Friday Special" at your local big box electronics store.

Re:This is good for America

[LichtSpektren]

We haven't had a free market in operating systems in over 25 years, which is about the time frame that Bill Gates forced computer manufacturers to put only Windows on computers.

My favorite part of the article was when the writer said that it was unclear why Russia wouldn't want Windows on government computers. I almost laughed out loud. The writer actually phrased it in such a way as to imply that Russia would somehow be inflicting harm on itself by kicking Windows out.

Really? Bill Gates hold your family hostage so you couldn't build your own PC and load Linux or go out and buy a Mac? People have always had alternatives, they are just not as simple or cheap as buying the "Black Friday Special" at your local big box electronics store.

It's possible to have an unfree market without having a gun pointed to your head.

Re:This is good for America

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in my day we had to manually mount our CD drive and we liked it better that way. Now, get off my lawn you whippersnapper!

Re:This is good for America

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess how fucked you are if your CD or GPU are malfunctioning in Windows?

Given that the response for those going bad will be to replace them in the larger number of instances, little more than I am with Linux. Turn off the machine, stick in a new one. I can buy them at Wal-Mart or Target, though not the best prices or offerings.

VGA safe mode exists for driver problems though, and USB can serve instead of your CD/DVD player in a lot of situations.

Yes, I burned Windows 10 to DVD, but I didn't NEED to do so. It was just more convenient for something I want to put in a file to have a physical copy outside of the machine.

FWIW, I do have remote desktop setup on my PC, I've used it in an emergency situation once, when AMD's Radeon uninstaller took out my motherboard drivers as well. I could have used a PS/2 keyboard, or safe mode to recover, but frankly remote desktop was easier. Now I can see some objection to Microsoft's product offerings, as it is only available in Pro, but there are alternatives and there are some risks to letting every Tom, Dick, and my Grannie Smith run a remote desktop. I've barely got her trained to call me BEFORE she goes into Best Buy, let alone AFTER.

Re:This is good for America

[micahraleigh]

Touche !

Putin Die Already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine how much better we could be without that criminal.

Re:Putin Die Already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Good thing his good friend Berlusconi has showed him this weird trick to become immortal.

I'm waiting for the dry humor

[k6mfw]

Another episode of Putin and his cronies making new plans and announcements, and it leaves this thread just begging for all kinds of snide remarks, jokes that are crass and crude. It makes sense as there are lots of US govt agencies that avoid Windows for various reasons, i.e. use Linux to avoid PC always calling home to Seattle. For secure systems, don't connect to internet (so simple but many just don't get it). I have a Windows system with very important stuff and I never connect it to internet (and the PC never crashes). Other than that, where's the "In Soviet Russia" comments?

Re:I'm waiting for the dry humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Other than that, where's the "In Soviet Russia" comments?

In Soviet Russia, Joke laughs at you.

Re:I'm waiting for the dry humor

[gtall]

Yep, for secure systems, you are free to develop your own organizational internet with all the built in protections you can muster. That should take about, what, a few days for you?

Re:I'm waiting for the dry humor

[k6mfw]

ouch, got me there.

Sembolbu

[Anonymous Coward]

clashbot vip

Finally...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I understand why Obama hates Putin and Trunp wants a good relationship with Russia.

CAP === 'manicure'

In soviet Russia...

[Striek]

Operating system installs YOU!

Not really about Windows

[DFDumont]

I think this is more about not sending money to the US based firm, Microsoft. I do applaud anyone taking a hard look at what is best/most appropriate for their environment but this seems more about giving US companies a bloody nose than it does about the OS choice itself.

Re:Not really about Windows

[JustNiz]

I disgree. I think Windows is both seriously crap for usability and inherently very insecure when compared to most Linux distros, and who knows what info Microsoft (and therefore the US gov) can/is using Windows to collect/phone home with.
Factor in that Linux is free (in both senses), has inspectable source code, is more standards-compliant and supports more hardware, and has more free professional-grade apps, and the decision is (or should be) a complete no-brainer, especially for governments.
In fact it boggles my mind why anyone is still choosing to use Windows for anything at all, except maybe gaming, and then only because many games devs still dont make Linux versions of AAA games, although tthat seems to be (too slowly for me) changing too.

Re:Not really about Windows

[DFDumont]

I am not arguing against any of your points. I just don't think that is what motivated the decision.

Re:Not really about Windows

[iampiti]

I'll contribute my reasons for staying on Windows:

• Games
• Official drivers from manufacturers
• Binary compatibility going back 20 years

But since I don't like Windows 10 I'll probably go Linux and keep Windows just for games

Re:Not really about Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares if the drivers are "official"? If they work reliably, and keep up with the newer releases of your OS, that's far, far more important. People who crave "official" drivers also seem very fond to throw away perfectly functional and adequate hardware because "sorry no drivers for $LATEST_WINVER". I like to use hardware until it either breaks or is otherwise inadequate, not until someone else decides I should buy a new $THING.

WRT binary compatiblity, that's just your own ignorance. Linux is binary backwards compatible as far as userspace goes. It's drivers which depends on internal interfaces that tends to get shafted.. But as demonstrated in point 1, that somehow yet seems to be a bigger problem with Windows than Linux..I have boxes full of hardware I could put in a modern Linux system, and have them fully functional. Windows 10? lol.

Re:Not really about Windows

[JustNiz]

Yeah thats what I do. I use Linux for everything but AAA gaming, then dual-boot into windows just for games that dont also run under Linux. Its by far the best strategy I've found for an easy life.

Re:Not really about Windows

[JustNiz]

I use the official nVidia Linux driversrather than nouveau only because the official drivers are very noticably better for both performance and stabilty/compatability, at last on my hardware, than nouveau is currently. If nouveau ever gets to be fully as good as nVidia's own Linux drivers, I will happily switch.

Re:Not really about Windows

[JustNiz]

>> Binary compatibility going back 20 years

Actually not. I've got a stack of old apps and games that Windows 7 and 10 wont run.

Re:Not really about Windows

[Grishnakh]

Well official Nvidia drivers are available for Linux and are commonly-used, so that's not a strike against Linux.

What *is* a "strike" against Linux is that you can't get official drivers from various small peripherals. Instead, you have to use community-written drivers for things like USB-to-serial converters, rather than having to load a 100MB "driver package" like you do on Windows which is full of drivers, various crapware applications you don't want, spyware, etc.

Re:Not really about Windows

[JustNiz]

I get your point. I have a device programmer that I would love to have a Linux driver for, since its pretty much the only thing left, other than a few AAA games, that I need to keep a Windows partition around for .... but i really can't blame Linux for the choice of some comapny's short-sighted product developers to only provide Windows drivers for their harware.
I already make a point of checking first and only buying devices that are supported under Linux, unless there really is no alternative (such as with my device programmer),
So in my own small "vote with my wallet" way I am adding my tiny weight to the effort to get companies that think PC===Windows to see enough missing sales that even they finally get a clue. I just wish more end-users would even think to do the same thing, rather than just mindlessly blame Linux because their favourite windows-only device doesnt just work with it.

Im amazed anoyne wants to use Widnwos

[JustNiz]

Heck I dont even trust Windows/Microsoft for home use. If I was Russia or any Government (including the US) I wouldnâ(TM)t allow any PC with Windows on it at all. Who knows what information Windows (especially 10) is collecting and phoning home with, or how many NSA back doors and just plain stupid security holes it has.

Anyone have details?

[93 Escort Wagon]

I'm curious how Microsoft and Apple would be compelled to pay more taxes - it's not as if they're manufacturing their computers there. If it's a tax on sales, that's not going to hit the companies... it'll hit the Russian consumers trying to buy Macs and Windows computers.

It's kind of funny, because I remember there was a lot of prominent Apple product placement in that "I will tear off my shirt for Putin" political ad - so their computers and phones are apparently popular there.

Re:Anyone have details?

[ewibble]

Sales tax can mean Russian consumers may buy computers made in Russia (if there are any) but this may also encourage Russian firm to manufacture computers.

Re:Anyone have details?

[gtall]

I think it is more the old Soviet/MidEast trick of using overblown language to cover up their lack of anything imaginative..."We gonna kill you with a thousand deaths"...or better Erdogan, "U.S. support of the Kurds is causing a sea of blood"...yeah, that's it...

D=

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not making fun about this... But I though that there already exist something else to use there. (never saw so many ruskies using cgi instead of php to make pages, for example). p.s.: I like ruskies, that's why I like to say my favorite word from there: rusky.

Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Overzeetop]

Oxygen constitutes 80% of everything in the atmosphere right now, and is the basis for most common exothermic reactions. But, to be clear, it's not really necessary. There are other oxidizers, and other compounds which many things could be converted over to use. Some applications simply wouldn't be able to run anymore. Like mammals. But that's really just a reason to create new, better organisms from scratch. We know how they work, so it should be pretty easy. Right?

Oxygen is dangerous, even toxic, stuff, and I can absolutely agree that something better is a good idea.

You go first.

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[LichtSpektren]

Oxygen constitutes 80% of everything in the atmosphere right now, and is the basis for most common exothermic reactions. But, to be clear, it's not really necessary. There are other oxidizers, and other compounds which many things could be converted over to use. Some applications simply wouldn't be able to run anymore. Like mammals. But that's really just a reason to create new, better organisms from scratch. We know how they work, so it should be pretty easy. Right?

Oxygen is dangerous, even toxic, stuff, and I can absolutely agree that something better is a good idea.

You go first.

You're an imbecile. Plenty of governments, large corporations and other institutions have been able to dump Windows (or never run Windows to begin with) and are doing quite fine.

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Teun]

80% oxygen in the atmosphere!

You better be real careful...

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Dragonslicer]

Did you happen to see the username?

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[ITRambo]

Excuse me. But, oxygen is 21% of our atmosphere. You're thinking of nitrogen, which is close to to 80%, at 78% of our air.

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you have never heard of
http://www.codeweavers.com

Plenty of companies don't use Windows at all and simply run Wine for the few corner case Windows applications they encounter.

I know, I used to support them. CodeWeavers makes millions off of those businesses. It is not a huge market but that is mainly because the native application stack of Linux and OS X has gotten to the point that Windows interoperability is not a deal breaker except in governments, mega-corps and specific sectors. For smaller businesses in most areas Windows is more like Ozone and not free Oxygen.

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Anonymous Coward]

Oxygen might constitute 80% of your head, but earth's atmosphere is only 20.9% oxygen. You were ... um, "thinking" of nitrogen (78%).

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Anonymous Coward]

You're backwards - go 20% for Oxygen. The 79% is Nitrogen.

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm Oxygen accounts for around 21%

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Anonymous Coward]

Oxygen is for pussies, real men use Fluorine.

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Overzeetop]

Ha! Yup - brain out of gear, clearly - I just sat right in that one! :-D

80% oxygen would make for some bad-ass bonfires, though.

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Anonymous Coward]

Oxygen constitutes 80% of everything in the atmosphere right now.

This earth would have become a burning cinder long ago if it was 80% Oxygen

Re:Banning Windows is like banning Oxygen

[Anonymous Coward]

Name an OXidizer that doesn't have OXYGEN? Dumb dumb. Also our atmosphere is 70% nitrogen not oxygen. Maybe come off the drugs or at least fact check before posting. I kid I kid, but you're going to draw the wrath spouting nonsense like that.

Very good idea.

[bytesex]

"The Russian government is allegedly looking to ban Microsoft's Windows operating system"

Aaaand... that's an extremely good idea. There is an enormous problem and it's called 'Restricted level networks' in governments everywhere; combined, they provide an attacker an enormous treasure trove of information, and they are installed, configured and used by morons^Hnot very apt computer users. To expose yourself additionally to an American company that can just open the floodgates at a simple request out of Washington, is folly.

Re:Very good idea.

[The-Ixian]

The only problem I see is that most users at least a familiar with Windows and how it generally works.

There are a lot of malicious things that can attack a Linux surface as well and if users are ignorant they may be much more easily tricked into exploiting a Linux box than a Windows box.

I just know from experience that people who throw up a Linux box without really understanding how to use Linux tend to get their box owned pretty quickly if it is exposed to the Internet and they don't keep up on patches.

I don't remember the last time I had a Windows box owned without user interaction (remotely exploited).

Re:Very good idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't remember a time in any of my 20 years in linux where somebody running a linux desktop and not being stupid with their web browsing was exploited by somebody else not on the box who didn't also have the user's password. Not once in thousands of desktops. Most default linux installations have zero open external ports. Doing an nmap against my local machine on a linux I just installed has 0 open ports.

web server logs and russian companies

[QuietLagoon]

I've had to block the IP addresses used by both yandex's search bot and mail.ru because they seem to completely ignore the robots.txt that I have on the server. The only other search engine bot that I've had to block for that same reason was bing's search bot.

.
Other search bots do not seem to have any problems following the instructions I placed in the robots.txt. For some reason, yandex, mail.ru and bing think they're entitled to special treatment.

Obl.

[PopeRatzo]

In Soviet Russia, Windows bans you.

Re:Obl.

[JustNiz]

In "free" USA, Microsoft owns you.

Re:Obl.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because the government mandates that you run Windows on your PC. You lamers and your tired rhetoric...

Refreshing honesty

[SvnLyrBrto]

Klimenko said forcing Google and Apple to pay more taxes and banning Microsoft Windows from government computers are necessary measures, as he is trying to raise taxes on U.S. companies, thus helping local Russian competitors such as Yandex and Mail.ru.

Well at least, unlike France and Spain for example, he's being honest about his true reason for arbitrary and specious attacks and restrictions on, and extortion of, US tech companies.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Escogido]

That doesn't have to be THE reason, or the only reason. There are at least three possible reasons - protectionism in software, privacy/security concerns, and desire to "bite back" because of sanctions. They probably all come into play here, at different degrees of importance.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Anonymous Coward]

I can also imagine the Russians wanting the equivalent of the Chinese Great Firewall. I'd be astonished if they can get it, but I can imagine them wanting it. Perhaps controlling the OS endpoint might help advance such a project, not in a technical sense but in a social & political sense.

It could be sold as, "Mother Russia has standardized on patriotic Kremlinux and now for the next step, the Freedom Wall!"

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Escogido]

I doubt that very much. Culturally, Russia has been looking to the west for the last 300 years, and it is the desire of many in the intellectual elite to be recognized as a European country - no amount of sanctions, economical integration with the Asian countries and even limited military conflict are going to change that. Putin has always wanted the West to be much friendlier than it turned out to be. While there may be a desire to limit the psych-ops via the Internet, that war is being waged with similar means - the Iron Curtain is not coming back, both online and offline.

This is all very different from China where they have no cultural desire to be recognized part of the West, so the Politburo's desire of political control aligned with the policy of extreme protectionism make the Great Firewall practically a necessity. Russia is nowhere near that.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[SvnLyrBrto]

While the intellectual elite might look westward, Putin sure doesn't seem to be one of them. He is on-record as pining for the old days of the Iron Curtain and Soviet Union, having made statements... publicly, mind you... that its dissolution was: "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century". That's hardly the outlook of any kind of progressive. And his actions, especially the invasions of Georgia and Ukraine, sure look like a desire to return to the cold war Soviet ways.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Nidi62]

Klimenko said forcing Google and Apple to pay more taxes and banning Microsoft Windows from government computers are necessary measures, as he is trying to raise taxes on U.S. companies, thus helping local Russian competitors such as Yandex and Mail.ru.

Well at least, unlike France and Spain for example, he's being honest about his true reason for arbitrary and specious attacks and restrictions on, and extortion of, US tech companies.

I wonder how much of a financial stake he or his family has in those companies...and there's also his own company (LiveInternet) which appears to be something similar to Yahoo's homepage, albeit more barebones.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Escogido]

Putin, certainly, is one of them; in fact, he's often criticized for being "too soft with the West", out of the (today almost entirely evaporated) idealistic notion that West wants Russia to be part of it, as an "equal partner" (as the cliche goes). He is being rejected, for reasons that may or may not be justified, but he still wants it, progressive or not.

I agree that statement of his about the "greatest catastrophe" was an exaggeration; note however that his statement is an evaluation of a magnitude of the geopolitical effect of an event and not "pining for the old days" at all. If I were asked, I would say that the fall of the USSR ties for 2nd place with WW1, and WW2 is the undisputed leader as far as 20th centuries catastrophes go. I don't see what being or not being a progressive has to do with this historical perspective, and in any case it was not a statement to be understood as "it was good back in the day", because that was not what he said nor what he meant.

As for what you refer to as "invasions", I'm aware that's how Western media paints Russian actions, and usually avoid debates on the topic, since most people aren't really interested in debating, but rather embrace the kind of propaganda that appeals to them, whether it is Western, Russian, or otherwise. But let me restate again that regardless of whether there is agreement on who is has higher moral ground in international matters today, the European cultural choice of Russians has been made long ago - the two centuries of importing the French and to a somewhat smaller degree German culture during the 18th-19th centuries shaped Russians the nation is today. It is not up to Putin to undo this, and he is well aware of that, so he embraces it, whether or not he sincerely thinks so himself, agrees with it, or acts in a fashion that makes the acceptance of Russia in the West more likely.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm genuinely very sorry, but it's not "the intellectual elite" who are running Russia, nor are they the ones people in the west think of when they think of Russia. When people in the west think of Russians, they think of drunks, atrocities, a country where the age of enlightenment just didn't happen and row of horrific rulers who all seems to have had more in common with the Spanish inquisition than Voltaire.

It's not the west that has to be nicer, it's the Russian people who actually have to get their shit together, work together with other people and above all stop trying to dominate everyone and dictate everything. It's like the average Russian don't understand the fundamental difference between following someone because you want to, and because you have to. So, every time Russia feels it's little ego threatened, "Hey, we think you should follow us, not the US or EU!", the tanks start rolling. Not a good way to make friends.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Escogido]

What you are saying is really beside the question here, whether correct or not, as what West thinks of Russians doesn't matter that much in this particular topic. I was pointing out that Russians do look westward culturally, and the oligarchs running the country also look westward in terms of where their economic interests like. My conclusion is that these two factors make Chinese Firewall scenario in Russia highly unlikely.

How successful or unsuccessful Russians are in their attempts to be accepted in the West has really little bearing on the fact that Russians perceive themselves as Europeans.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, you saying "it doesn't matter" doesn't make it so.

You brought up, yourself, the "intellectual elite" who wants to be "European", and I told you that they don't matter. They are isolated in their own country, because the average Russian is a twat who wants to A) be strong, and B) drink vodka and C) possibly rape someone so he can feel like a "man". Why be friends when you can make threats or just plain invade your neighbours? "Look how powerful we are!" So, where the Russian "intellectual elite" are looking is irrelevant. They have no influence, if they had, they'd be in jail, or dead. You have a whole bunch of journalist trying the latter ATM. They are not expected to recover.

Funny you mentioned the oligarchs. Europe is a good place to spend and make money, the US is a bit too far, unless you're doing business with polar bears, and China isn't really the place you go to for a breath of fresh air if you can afford it, neither physically nor metaphorically speaking, so them looking at Europe is quite logical. Europe is also what Russia could have been if history hadn't happened. You claim they run the country which implies some political clout. Yet, Putin can, and have had, basically any of them put away in some sham trial at any point in time. So, are they really that influential? Sure doesn't seem like that.

I agree that a "chinese firewall" is unlikely, but not because Putin doesn't care, but because he doesn't need to. I'm pretty sure you've noticed that Russia isn't exactly popular in the rest of the world right now, especially not Europe. Of course this means that most of what's coming from the west is negative from a Russian horizon. And guess what's pretty universal for humans? They don't like bad news. This means that the Russian audience is very likely to dismiss anything coming from the west as "lies" or "propaganda", or at least will be highly susceptible to suggestions that that's what it is. After all, that's the norm, no? All Putin has to do, is make the bad news keep coming, and he can tell you anything, because he's the only one you can trust, right? (Speaking rhetorically here.)

I'm sorry for the novella, but it all ties in with your final sentence: "How successful or unsuccessful Russians are in their attempts to be accepted in the West has really little bearing on the fact that Russians perceive themselves as Europeans."

This is simply not true. Russians are not, and will not, ever, be accepted as Europeans until they start to behave like Europeans. Trade, integration, democracy, independent institutions, free press, cooperation instead of subjugation etc. And here comes the rub: If, as you say the Russian people try to paint themselves as Europeans when they have no hope in hell to be accepted as such because of their behaviour, in the long run they will be very disappointed. And that's a fact, history is full of stories like that.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Escogido]

You keep confusing culture and politics.

Indeed, there is the part of the "intellectual elite" who is basically either naively enamored with the West, or simply bought by it, that would essentially like to sell the country on the cheap to the Western business because of its alleged love for the European values and/or culture, and so willingly or unwillingly contributes to the psy-ops. These are, indeed, marginalized, and are irrelevant in the big picture; the majority, however, is neither that myopic nor hypocritical. Just because Russians believe European culture to be superior to theirs doesn't necessarily infer they feel compelled to voluntarily surrender their economy as vassal to whatever modern governments rule said Europeans today, the way countries like Bulgaria, Greece, ex-Yugoslavia, now Ukraine did.

As for the acceptance as Europeans, allow me to illustrate my train of thought with an analogy. If you paint your car red, and someone likes that color and copies it to the extent of their ability, they will still consider their car red, regardless of whether you think theirs is pink or brown, and whether you would admit them to the red car club. For the purposes of this particular topic - the Great China Firewall, - this is all that matters, and not what Europe thinks about Russians.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Anonymous Coward]

C) possibly rape someone so he can feel like a "man"

That is fine in the old testament, if girl is virgin not married or given allready.

Re:Refreshing honesty

[Anonymous Coward]

You keep confusing culture and politics.

And you keep trying to tell me they are different things. They are not. Politics and what policies gets implemented are highly dependent on culture. To see them as separate entities is a serious mistake. Do you think you're under sanctions because the west is malicious? Or do you think it's because we have a cultural thing for ostracising people who are arseholes? Why have Russia in modern times invaded Poland(1939), Finland(1939), Estonia(1939), Lithuania(1940), Latvia(1939), Hungary(1956), Czechoslovakia(1968), Afghanistan(1978), Georgia(2008), and the Ukraine(2014)? To borrow sugar? Or because you have a cultural thing for invading other peoples turf in order to assert dominance and to blow up your own miserable little egos?

As for the red car analogy. I'm sorry but it doesn't hold up. We are talking about human beings, not inanimate things. And believe me, really nasty things have had their origins in someone trying to be something they are not being accepted as. It doesn't matter if it's about race, sexual orientation or culture, it rarely ends well.

As for being "vassals", I can kind of understand that argument, given your highly unfortunate experiences, but it's not true that it has to be that way. The world does not only consist of Masters and Vassals. It's a very Russian view, and I suppose it has it's roots in the very unfortunate history of Russia. The rest of the world isn't necessarily like that, and a lot of the problems Russia have with the rest of the world comes from trying to force the world into this paradigm. But if you look around, there are plenty of countries who are not anyone's vassal. Just for an example, which country is France vassal to? I double dog dare you to tell any Frenchman he's an American vassal. :>

So if other countries manages behaving in a civil way without becoming vassals why does Russia fail so badly? Is it because the world is evil, and everyone hates Russia? Or is it because you're not very experienced with the whole deal, and got caught up in the usual quagmire of bureaucracy, incompetence and swindlers of various nationalities? You tell me which is more plausible.

ThinksEveryoneElseIsStupid

[Hognoxious]

Perhaps they don't want to get malware when they visit forbes?

While we're on that subject, can anyone guess who SmartAboutThings is?

"Free as in Freedom"

[westlake]

Any government interested in keeping its data and secrets safe but runs Windows is likely populated by imbeciles.

But an OS designed to serve Putin's interests is a better alternative? The geek mind at work is a fascinating thing to watch.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Alioth]

For Putin's government, I would say an OS designed to serve Putin's interest is probably a better alternative for Putin - and that's what we're discussing.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[LichtSpektren]

Any government interested in keeping its data and secrets safe but runs Windows is likely populated by imbeciles.

But an OS designed to serve Putin's interests is a better alternative? The geek mind at work is a fascinating thing to watch.

wtf? Uh, yeah! Putin, being the head of the Russian government, would indeed be strongly interested in a home-rolled OS to avoid Microsoft funneling state secrets to the USA. How thick do you have to be to not see this?

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[BCGlorfindel]

For Putin's government, I would say an OS designed to serve Putin's interest is probably a better alternative for Putin - and that's what we're discussing.

No, the grand parent stated:
Hopefully Russian computer scientists will focus on either making ReactOS a usable replacement (better for us in the West trying to dump Windows)

So a Putin sponsored ReactOS is declared as a better option for the West to move to from Windows. It is absurd, and it was duly and accurately called out as stupidity. Stupidty that got rated +5 insightfull no less.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[LichtSpektren]

For Putin's government, I would say an OS designed to serve Putin's interest is probably a better alternative for Putin - and that's what we're discussing.

No, the grand parent stated: Hopefully Russian computer scientists will focus on either making ReactOS a usable replacement (better for us in the West trying to dump Windows)

So a Putin sponsored ReactOS is declared as a better option for the West to move to from Windows. It is absurd, and it was duly and accurately called out as stupidity. Stupidty that got rated +5 insightfull no less.

ReactOS is open source. If Russia contributes to it, it helps everybody in the world that can access the source. The fact that it helps Putin does not mean it cannot help other people.

Of course, if Putin wanted to, the Russian government could make a closed-source fork of ReactOS, but that's obviously not what I was hoping for--hence why I started the statement with "hopefully".

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[BCGlorfindel]

For Putin's government, I would say an OS designed to serve Putin's interest is probably a better alternative for Putin - and that's what we're discussing.

No, the grand parent stated:
Hopefully Russian computer scientists will focus on either making ReactOS a usable replacement (better for us in the West trying to dump Windows)

So a Putin sponsored ReactOS is declared as a better option for the West to move to from Windows. It is absurd, and it was duly and accurately called out as stupidity. Stupidty that got rated +5 insightfull no less.

ReactOS is open source. If Russia contributes to it, it helps everybody in the world that can access the source. The fact that it helps Putin does not mean it cannot help other people.

Of course, if Putin wanted to, the Russian government could make a closed-source fork of ReactOS, but that's obviously not what I was hoping for--hence why I started the statement with "hopefully".

Because "open source" and "full source audit for security holes both accidental and deliberate" are synonymous? If you've got a code base of hundreds of thousands of lines, and Putin's employees add a bunch of features and fixes that comprise 10s of thousands of lines, how exactly do you tell the good from the bad? Sure, some bad stuff can eventually get caught. Sure, it's easier to catch than with closed source. Let's not pretend though that KGB agents are beyond trying to hide problems in plain sight that they can exploit.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

That is not denied. What demonstrates thickness of the level of the Earth's mantel is pretending PutinOS will not be equally crammed with stuff -- and keep in mind this Microsoft stuff is feared because its purpose and encoded data are unknown -- every bit of it could be mundane stuff.

The stuff in PutinOS will not be. He isn't looking to see if you need an update, or might be interested in Jiffy Pop.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Anonymous Coward]

The same way it is caught in Linux. The updates go through evaluation. If a source of updates with REALLY bad/improper updates - it gets banned. And no more updates from the bad source.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Gr8Apes]

Add to this all the recent security holes found in open source projects like OpenSSH.... What more needs be said? Open source is not an automatic panacea of security. It does make the obvious phone home code less likely.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Anonymous Coward]

What demonstrates thickness of the level of the Earth's mantel

... is you.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Anonymous Coward]

For Putin's government, I would say an OS designed to serve Putin's interest is probably a better alternative for Putin - and that's what we're discussing.

No, the grand parent stated:
Hopefully Russian computer scientists will focus on either making ReactOS a usable replacement (better for us in the West trying to dump Windows)

So a Putin sponsored ReactOS is declared as a better option for the West to move to from Windows. It is absurd, and it was duly and accurately called out as stupidity. Stupidty that got rated +5 insightfull no less.

ReactOS is open source. If Russia contributes to it, it helps everybody in the world that can access the source. The fact that it helps Putin does not mean it cannot help other people.

Of course, if Putin wanted to, the Russian government could make a closed-source fork of ReactOS, but that's obviously not what I was hoping for--hence why I started the statement with "hopefully".

Because "open source" and "full source audit for security holes both accidental and deliberate" are synonymous? If you've got a code base of hundreds of thousands of lines, and Putin's employees add a bunch of features and fixes that comprise 10s of thousands of lines, how exactly do you tell the good from the bad? Sure, some bad stuff can eventually get caught. Sure, it's easier to catch than with closed source. Let's not pretend though that KGB agents are beyond trying to hide problems in plain sight that they can exploit.

That is when the maintainers reject the patch and request that it be broken up into smaller patches. I am pretty sure that Linus does the same thing with the Linux kernel. Unless you have a damn good reason for a large patch (like adding in an entire device driver), any large patches will most likely be rejected as it is too hard to check the patch...

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Anonymous Coward]

At the current moment Putin has never sponsored ReactOS, belive me.

Re:"Free as in Freedom"

[Anonymous Coward]

s/KGB/NSA/g

And who can blame them?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Seriously, who can blame them?

Win 10 is basically spyware, and it would be the NSA's wet dream to have it installed on computers within the Russian government's offices.

I mean, how much easier could it get? No more having to spear-phish Russian officials and trick them into installing malware or spyware, just turn on the "Spy On Me" feature and paw through all their documents, emails, chats, forms, and file stores at will. Download nightly "backups" of their PCs and have a field day.

I don't want Win 10 installed on my PC, and I hardly have any secrets to keep.

Re:And who can blame them?

[AHuxley]

Now Russia will get its own CPU's, software and hardware. The OS was really the last big issue that had US gov/mil backdoors, trapsdoors as designed and exported.
Russia can move on with good local jobs, understanding every line of code and work out any issues with its own trusted experts.
Its win win win. A deeper understanding of OS and network security, good local jobs, great code.
Secure computer systems will help making each network a bit more unique :)

I think this is a great idea

[MakersDirector]

Personally, I think this is a great idea. So much so, I think it behooves most governments who can afford it on this planet to actually spend money developing their own Operating System based on their own cultural norms, rules, and values.

Not always easy. But not a bad idea to encourage the development of the cultural mindset of the government down a different path through the use of a tool everyone will use.

Re:I think this is a great idea

[DogDude]

Oh, yes, many people using many different OS's is UTOPIA!

Re:I think this is a great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

If your idea of the ideal holiday hotel is a mental asylum for the criminally insane yes.

Re:I think this is a great idea

[MakersDirector]

Explain the analogy.... I just dont get it.

Re:I think this is a great idea

[MakersDirector]

If that's how you feel. Not I. But it's definitely a step in the right direction.

Windows bashing

[BCGlorfindel]

Any government interested in keeping its data and secrets safe but runs Windows is likely populated by imbeciles.

Hopefully Russian computer scientists will focus on either making ReactOS a usable replacement (better for us in the West trying to dump Windows), or making their own Linux distro (I suggest they call it... Kremlinux), which will likely be better for them in the long run.

It's funny because Microsoft is evil.

Seriously though, a government running Windows must be run by imbeciles, but a Kremlin doctored version of ReactOS or Linux would be better? Pot meet kettle my friend.

I get Windows is not the right tool for everything, but neither is it the wrong tool for everything. I don't really see a government ban on Windows across the board makes any sense. Nobody in gov will ever run MS Office, nothing in gov will every be developed in .NET, and all to protect from what exactly? Hidden back doors? Viruses? Depending on what level of data you are securing there are other answers that sometimes make more sense. Even within the CIA, if you have your super secret documents buried in bunker on a Windows AD server with the room cut off from external networks and inside a faraday cage and anyone working goes there physically, you are as safe as running Linux or anything else. Neither is Linux immeasurably superior and secure if you want to connect your server room to the internet while keeping super sensitive data on it.

Sometimes the blind prejudiced hatred for all things MS on here still just confuses me. If you work with computers you aught to know a bit better than stupid knee jerk HS level MS bad jokes.

Re:Windows bashing

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Windows is the wrong tool for anything requiring security or privacy.

My guesses about Microsoft:

[Futurepower(R)]

My guesses:

1) Basically, Windows is dead. Countries will have to move away from using Microsoft products, since Microsoft has shown it cannot be trusted in ANY way. For example: Windows 10 phones home (A LOT) even with all reporting and telemetry disabled.

2) Microsoft wants to make money in the Facebook and Google way. Microsoft plans to mine all user data on all computers connected to the internet and sell the information.

3) The reason there will be no more versions of Windows is that Microsoft will do what Adobe Systems has done: Force users to move to a subscription model.

4) Windows users will isolate Windows from the internet, and use Linux on a different network with a cheap 2nd computer to connect to the internet. (But how to allow information interchange between the 2 networks?)

5) In response to users isolating Windows from the internet, Microsoft will make Windows stop working after a few days of no internet connection. Adobe Systems does that, in my experience, with CS6. (CS6 is the last version before the forced move to a subscription model.)

6) Satya Nadella, the new Microsoft CEO, was chosen because he was the least annoying candidate. He is apparently not the real controlling manager, but only someone to advertise.

7) Microsoft has a contract with secret U.S. government agencies to make Windows into what users consider to be malware.

8) Because Microsoft often releases buggy software, possibly because it is paid to do so by secret U.S. government agencies, Windows 10, with its many ways to connect to the internet, is now FAR less secure than before.

Not a guess, because verified by others: Microsoft is shockingly badly managed. The cover of the January 16, 2013 issue of BusinessWeek magazine has a large photo of former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer with the headline calling him "Monkey Boy". See the BusinessWeek cover in this article: Steve Ballmer Is No Longer A Monkey Boy, Says Bloomberg BusinessWeek. The BusinessWeek cover says "No More" and "Mr.", but that doesn't take much away from the fact that the magazine called Ballmer Monkey Boy -- on its cover.

Slashdot commenters called Ballmer "Monkey Boy" for years before BusinessWeek called him that on the cover of its magazine.

Worst CEO in the United States: Quote from an article in Forbes Magazine about Steve Ballmer: "Without a doubt, Mr. Ballmer is the worst CEO of a large publicly traded American company today." Another quote: "The reach of his bad leadership has extended far beyond Microsoft when it comes to destroying shareholder value -- and jobs." (May 12, 2012)

Re:My guesses about Microsoft:

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you cite sources for 2, 3, 5, 7, and 8? Not saying you're wrong, just want some sources.

Captcha is "record", yes, we get it, Windows is recording everything... *sigh*

Re:My guesses about Microsoft:

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, is it the time of the year where we start saying Windows is dead? By my count, Windows is a 4 time zombie even under the nicest interpretation. But sure, Windows is dead.

Re:My guesses about Microsoft:

[Anonymous Coward]

Only guesses 2 & 3 have any whiff of reality to them.

The rest are paranoid fantasies, FOSS fantasies, and/or anti-Microsoft revenge fantasies.

Re:My guesses about Microsoft:

[Anonymous Coward]

"7) Microsoft has a contract with secret U.S. government agencies to make Windows into what users consider to be malware. "

So does redhat.

See systemd for one.

Thank you, Windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

You are obviously correct. It is so obvious that it begs the question, "why have they waited until now?"
Windows has been popular in Russia. If this had been done in the past, it would have pissed off many people.
But Windows 10 is opening new territory.
The perception of forced updates and background telemetry - whether true or not - make this a state loyalty issue.

Developing a world class OS is easily within the grasp of the Russians, especially with state assistance.
There are more than a few people in the US who think MS had unfair government assistance.
This could easily turn into the new moonshot. and the Chinese will be soon to follow.
Thank you, Windows 10.

Capital flight from Russia

[Anonymous Coward]

Moves like this will only accelerate it. Most stories about Klimenko show him texting away on an iPhone. Putin is already trying to sell part of Rosneft to raise money for his beleaguered adventures. Good luck with that.

Home grown OS?

[wjcofkc]

Pubuntu.

Re:Home grown OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ru buntu?

Re:Home grown OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pulininn?

Yup

[DMJC]

So many benefits to doing it. Let's assume they take ReactOS: Right now ReactOS has wifi/networking, GPU, and basic desktop support. With 20 Russians hacking on it, they could very quickly implement SAMBA 4.0 on ReactOS, BIND, DHCP and Openchange. That's most of the core windows stack and gets them a usable e-mail, file/print/domain controller. An RDP client/server implementation gets them Windows Terminal Server replaced. Most of this code exists right now, it just needs to be adapted from Unix back to ReactOS.

U.S. self-harm.

[pigsycyberbully]

All government departments used to have their own computer systems and customised operating systems the U.K. was awash with them. Russia should have created its own computer system a long long time ago first satellite system Sputnik. The first human to journey into outer space Yuri Gagarin, and so on. The U.S. as a illegally subsidised every U.S. company from software to hardware computer systems IBM motor vehicles entertainment industry and so on. It has always been cheaper to buy U.S. because they subsidised all those companies. Because it has been so cheap and they have declared copyright on everything they have managed to keep the computer system and its operating systems in the equivalent of the 1980s it is primitive and untrustworthy. They have fucked up everything they have put their hands to. As they say the end is nigh.

Czar?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps we should use a different word when referring to Russia posts. Maybe "Internet Kaiser."

I get dumping Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that Windows is still just as much a risk as ever. I do not blame Russia for wanting to do this. On a logistical level it would take time to make the switch. But hardware should not be an issue. I only keep Windows for a little gaming and as a backup need for document creation. I can easily see myself moving away from Windows. After Windows 10 I think Microsoft is definitely nudging me towards dumping Windows. If hackers can easily get onto a Windows PC. You know other governments can too. Obama wants to spend billions upgrading the federal cyber system, but says little about what that means? A server in every closet?

Klimenko owns a torrent site, opposes restrictions

[guestapoo]

I don't know what's really behind the appointment of this guy, but, this is interesting that he owns a torrent site, and is against web-blocking for being piracy, cited the current bad situation of the economy.

China had MS make a special version of Win 10

[spacepimp]

At a big enough volume, Russia could make Microsoft code to what they demanded just like they did for access to China. I would think however that the the amount of work in auditing and trusting the changes and updates and stripping out telemetry by MS is better spent removing themselves from needing the OS in the first place. MS is making the ROI lies they used against Linux impossible to believe even among the simplest of admins and pundits.

7 and 8 are just guesses, but here is evidence:

[Futurepower(R)]

A few of the many stories about backdoors in U.S. hardware:

D-Link: Reverse Engineering a D-Link Backdoor (Oct. 12, 2013)

Arris: 600,000 Arris cable modems have 'backdoors in backdoors', researcher claims (Nov. 20, 2015)

Juniper Networks: Juniper drops NSA-developed code following new backdoor revelations (Jan. 10, 2016)

Cisco: Snowden: The NSA planted backdoors in Cisco products (May 15, 2014)

Netgear: Netgear Patch Said to Leave Backdoor Problem in Router (April 23, 2014)

Windows 8: NSA Backdoor Exploit in Windows 8 Uncovered (Aug. 22, 2013)

Windows: NSA "backdoor" mandates lead to a computer-security FREAK show Quote: "Microsoft Windows OS vulnerable to hackers, thanks to National Security Agency requirements." (March 6, 2015)

Windows: NSA Built Back Door In All Windows Software by 1999 (June 7, 2013)

Hard drives: Breaking: Kaspersky Exposes NSA's Worldwide, Backdoor Hacking of Virtually All Hard-Drive Firmware (Feb. 17, 2015)

Is every backdoor the work of the NSA? There is no way of knowing.

Re:7 and 8 are just guesses, but here is evidence:

[cthulhu11]

To be fair, the Cisco story has always claimed that the NSA did basically an MITM attack. Can't blame Cisco for that.

Re:Heartbleed

[BCGlorfindel]

The same way it is caught in Linux. The updates go through evaluation. If a source of updates with REALLY bad/improper updates - it gets banned. And no more updates from the bad source.

My my heart bleeds for your ignorance. Plenty of major security flaws have gone undiscovered and unnoticed in open source projects for long time frames. Simply saying we can trust changes by guys Putin hired because "open source" is naive in the extreme.

You gotta admit

[Anonymous Coward]

VladOS has a ring to it.

All governments should follow Russia's lead

[WaffleMonster]

Three facts seem inescapable at this point.

1. Microsoft has proven itself to be untrustworthy.
2. Microsoft refuses to adequately respect the privacy of Microsoft's own customers.
3. Microsoft is a US corporation.

US government has authority to extract "Any tangible thing" from Microsoft for any reason it wants.

If I were a head of state I would be pushing for an alternative too. It would be malpractice not to.

Ban windows on all computers in the country ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I could get behind that ..

Czar?

[wyHunter]

Can Russia have an internet Czar since they aren't a monarchy anymore?

He he

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be funny if some US Government agencies decided to do something similar because they were sick of the NSA spying on them.

South Korean government mandates Windows (i.e. IE)

[Anonymous Coward]

South Korean government mandates Windows (i.e. Internet Explorer for online commerce)

Re:Google may just leave if the taxes are high eno

[Anonymous Coward]

it doesn't really do anything long term about making anybody outside of the USSR, cough cough, sorry I mean Russia, care about their stuff.
Energy
Weapons
Nuclear technology
space industry
drugs
prostitution
I'm sure they can find enough customers interested in the above (in the west or elsewhere)

We should do the same

[Anonymous Coward]

To Russian goods equal tax.
Hell with it just have a nuclear war.

Good idea !

[randalware]

No Windows on government desktops !

If our internet czar would do the same, maybe we wouldn't be seeing the data breaches.

I know my info was lost about 6 months ago, all the DHS & FBI employees more recently.

Go Unix ! In all it's glory Unix,SysV, BSD, GNU/Linux, Hurd & Apple !

A test suite for web/application/os for known types of attacks should be required.

How many holes have to be reimplemented over and over.

sql injection, hard coded username/password, buffer overflow, etc...

watchout for the first AI that gets loose, A script kiddie can cause a lot of grief.
The AI will go thru the net like a hot knife thru butter, then disappear.

Internet Czar?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that's the old regime. He is the Internet Comrade.

US determined to destroy it's last industry

[Anonymous Coward]

The U.S. is determined to destroy the one industry it has left, the one industry it is still the world leader at, it is determined to cripple for the sake of attacking phantom foes.

Re:US determined to destroy it's last industry

[Anonymous Coward]

Men who like young girls are real.

In Putin's Russia

[Anonymous Coward]

In Putin's Russia, system operates you.

I'm actually surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

With all the well advertised built-in spyware in Win10, I am actually surprised that ALL non-US countries have not banned it from their government's computers.

Devuan, Mr. Putin, please

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Debian without the systemd rootkit.

Windows still sucks...

[Anonymous Coward]

But "Putin Linux" is going to suck even worse.

Re:Heartbleed

[E-Rock]

Heartbleed was a mistake and got missed for years. Imagine how hard it would be to find something that was built to be hidden?

Russian based companys? hehe

[Anonymous Coward]

TERRITORY OF THE BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS
THE INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS COMPANIES ACT
(CAP. 291)
MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION
OF
  MAIL.RU GROUP LIMITED
1. NAME
  The name of the company is Mail.ru Group Limited.
2. REGISTERED OFFICE
The Registered Office of the Company will be the offices of Trident Trust
Company (B.V.I.) Limited, Trident Chambers, P.O. Box 146, Road Town,
Tortola, British Virgin Islands or such other place within the British Virgin
Islands as the

Yandex N.V.
Registered Office in Amsterdam
Schiphol Boulevard 165
1118 BG Schiphol
The Netherlands
tel.: +31 (0) 20 206 6970
Yandex LLC
Headquarters in Russia

Hans Reiser

[Anonymous Coward]

did nothing wrong.

The tech sector

[Etherwalk]

If you're in the US, losing the entire Russian government market is a blow to the balance of trade and local economy. This single contract is just representative of everything that's happening across the industry - it's far larger.

But Americans seem to WANT NSL's and are willing to sacrifice the entire tech sector, the basis of their economic growth, for an increased police state. Maybe they'll get to pick the size of their grey tunics.

The tech sector is a small, concentrated, educated market. The population as a whole consists of many non-expert distributed voters who are afraid of terrorism, have never lived in a police state and don't understand the risk to privacy that this creates, and being manipulated by their leaders into believing encryption is bad and surveillance are good.

Different this time?

[Futurepower(R)]

"By my count, Windows is a 4 time zombie even under the nicest interpretation."

To a lot of people, it seems different this time. Yes, it would take a long time to adjust, but companies don't want buggy Windows 10 tracking them.

~80% is Nitrogen, O2 is about 20%

[Anonymous Coward]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

And even Microsoft is moving to web based service model, where word et. run on any modern browser

ROSA... Calculate...

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a few viable homegrown linux distros out there. I'm surprised Slashdot readers haven't made the connections.
ROSA Linux bought Mandriva's assets when they went bankrupt. Their desktop OS is built on Mandriva and their Enterprise Server is on RedHat. They have 50+ full time employees. They recently were announced to be contributing to the Russian National Software Software strategy group. My money is on them getting major government contracts.

Calculate Linux is based off Gentoo and is growing over the past 2 year with quite active developers.

Alt Linux is pretty popular as a build from scratch distro too, also Russian.

Surly the are joking

[qfman]

NSA has there fingers in every one's pie. Did every one forget https://youtu.be/7gRsgkdfYJ8 (Linus Torvalds - Backdoor In Linux)

When will the USA outlaw MS Windows?!

[martinfb]

When will the USA outlaw MS Windows?! This latest version is a blatant attack against our very constitutional rights as citizens - privacy! I find it hard to believe that We, the People, would allow corporations to continue to manipulate and control us! C'mon, Bernie, make a stink!

Global Mother Fucking Spyware?

[Anonymous Coward]

period.