Slashdot Mirror
Sexism Is Still a Thing At Microsoft's GDC Party (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous reader writes from an article on TechCrunch: Microsoft hired a bunch of women wearing very little clothing to dance and socialize with people at the company's official Game Developers Conference after-party last night in San Francisco, Business Insider reports. Phil Spencer, head of Xbox, said in a statement to TechCrunch. "At Xbox-hosted events at GDC this past week, we represented Xbox and Microsoft in a way that was not consistent or aligned to our values. It was unequivocally wrong and will not be tolerated. I know we disappointed many people and I'm personally committed to holding ourselves to higher standards. We must ensure that diversity and inclusion are central to our everyday business and core values. We will do better in the future." What's problematic is that Microsoft chose to throw a party that clearly caters to heterosexual men by hiring women as objects of sex.
If this is sexism then I don't want equality. Humans are creatures of sex and women at this event are getting compensated for their performance. What's the problem?
I see nothing whatsoever wrong about this arrangement.
Okay, I get it. It's a good idea to cater to as many possible audiences as possible.
This isn't always possible. Especially with the combative nature of several audiences nowadays.
But why is it okay to clearly cater to heterosexual females, or homosexual men, or homosexual females? But, cater to heterosexual men nowadays and YOU ARE WRONG AND BAD!
I'm sorry but fuck that noise. Every product and every promotion isn't going to appeal to every demographic. DEAL WITH IT!
Seriously, it's gotten to such an idiotic point that it's okay to be anything BUT a heterosexual male nowadays.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
it's not like MS hasn't hired out for gay guys.
Can't say I'm shocked.
ProTip: don't believe companies that say they are diverse or non-sexist, they are just as exclusionary and sexist in their hiring and promotion practices.
Look at MSFT's board and you'll get an idea. Then look at their senior executives (EVP or above).
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
GDC promoting marxism [...]
Oh, please. Did you even read the slide? That's like saying GDC is promoting zombie hordes.
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Dear whiplash
With all the improvements that are being made to this wonderful site one of the biggest flaws brought in big part by the previous owners (DICE) was the overly politicised topics that not even tangentially touches the historical major focus of this site: technology and its applications.
It is my belief that, for the original audience of this site, some here since before the 9/11, some even from when http colon slash slash was actually pronounced when reading URLs out loud, the main drive to come and read the front page is to catch up with the latest of the technology and its applications.
This kind of politicised subject (the same going for the U.S. elections, ISIS, the refugee crisis and general gossip) already abounds in the mainstream media and for more than a decade this used to be the place to run away from all that, to read about the subjects that are our jobs and our passions and to welcome our robotic overlords.
Unicode, https, burying videos, all that would be secondary if this kind of article continues to be propped up in here.
It is time for some transparency here: did this article even passed through the firehose? People actually voted for it? Maybe times changed and people here are voting for this kind of article to the front page but, otherwise, it would be a great update, maybe the greatest, to go back to the roots of "News for Nerds, stuff that matter".
Either that or at least inform the audience that Slashdot is OK with this kind of articles, that the desired audience is a new audience with a different profile and give us the alternative to go look for an alternative.
Noxema, not Burma Shave
These are exactly the kinds of incidents that can happen when one doesn't strictly adhere to the Rust Code of Conduct. I've started using the Rust Code of Conduct for everything I do in my life, online and offline. Before I make any sort of a decision or take any sort of an action, I whip out my copy of the Rust Code of Conduct and confirm that my actions will not violate it in any way. I have printed out a copy of the Rust Code of Conduct and I keep it on my person at all times. I have another copy in my car, one at my desk, and several placed around my home in easily accessible locations. The last thing I want is to be somewhere without my Rust Code of Conduct! Some people say that it's dumb or that it wastes too much time, but I think they're wrong. Complying with the Rust Code of Conduct all of the time is something that I think is critical to living life in our modern age.
Yes. Exactly. Granted, those dancers are being paid to (among other things) look like they're having a great time but I can't imagine any of them having to be forced to dance. They knew what the gig was, they'd seen the costumes ahead of time, if only to make sure that they fit properly, and they could have turned the job down if they felt there was anything wrong with it.
Now, speaking of a heterosexual male, I think that it would have been much better if the entertainment had included some dancing men as well, not because it's PC to think that way but because that way, non-lesbian women and gay men could some eye candy that appealed to their tastes, meaning that they could have something to watch and wouldn't feel left out. (Would I have thought of this if I'd have been in charge of setting that party up? I honestly don't know, but I'd rather hope that I would.)
Good, inexpensive web hosting
Just hire 50% genetic females and 50% male cross-dressers, and don't anybody who is who. Technically it would then be balanced hiring. Clothes are just clothes, a costume.
Table-ized A.I.
Please?
http://vignette3.wikia.nocooki...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Let me rework the first sentence:
Just hire 50% genetic females and 50% genetic male cross-dressers, and don't tell anybody who is who.
Table-ized A.I.
I have heard that homosexual men has very similar brain responses to scantily clad women as do their heterosexual peers. So the scantily clad women are not their just for the heterosexual men and lesbians, scantily clad women in fact have universal appeal and are just all round good at helping to sell your products to any and all demographics.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I'm a lesbian trapped in a mans body! So those ladies would appeal to me regardless.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Because some things are great for games, but awful for the real world. "Reducing the consequences for killing or dying is great for designers!" isn't stating support for killing or death.
~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
What's problematic is that Microsoft chose to throw a party that clearly caters to heterosexual men by hiring women as objects of sex.
Oh, right, thanks for adding that, because I was having such great difficulty working it out from the rest of the summary.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Ending the week with a positive story on Microsoft.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Then why did they serve alcohol, at the AFTER PARTY? Did the thing even start before 8pm? Have you ever been to an after party? After parties are for relaxing and having fun after the work is done.
Even as a gay man, I enjoy scantily clad female dancers (as well as scantily clad models in art). So, I hope that that kind of "sexism" won't end.
I really think a lot of people are missing the point here. It's not that scantily clad sexy women are sexist per se, it's that this was a party that employees of a company were presumably encouraged to attend as well as an event showcasing the company's public face. In that environment, everyone should feel comfortable. If one wants to go to a strip club or club where there are go-go dancers, etc., that is their business and they can make that choice.
Scantily clad? Bare arms and bare midriff counts as scantily clad these days? (And not even very much midriff.) They're completely covered from a (very high) waist to their toes, otherwise. Not even close to as scanty as many many professional dancers at clubs all over the country. Not strip clubs, either. Plain old night club girls wear less than that.
Kids these days...
Seriously, I'd buy an Xbox One in a HEARTBEAT if a lithe 19 year old boy with a swimmer's build wearing skimpy clothes sold it to me.
I've watched more than a few college football games and somehow they've figured out how to have almost scantily clad people that are acceptable to most people. MS, take notice! Just bring in some SEC cheerleader squads next time.
"Sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."
How exactly were they subject to prejudice, stereotyping or discrimination?
http://imgur.com/UgaQAWv that's a screenshot I took from that businessinsider article today; a half naked buxom girl in alluring pose linked to yet another businessinsider article...
"feminists" love to tell other women what to do with their bodies just as much as born again church ladies. They don't respect anyone elses freedom. They despise other people's choices and think that gives them the right to meddle.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Women *are* objects of male desire ... objects in the sense of subject/object, not in the sense of "things to be used".
Most men are heterosexual, and they do like to see scantily clad women. That isn't going to change.
(whether that means you should pay scantily clad women to attend events is a different question. But if you shouldn't, it's not because men "shouldn't" like looking at women. Because they should, and do.)
But the Xbox One IS a product that's being aimed at everyone. Shouldn't all their marketing (including parties) be more generic as a result? If they were launching a game that targeted hetero men then maybe your logic would follow. Anyway there were male dancers art this party too but nobody seems to be talking about that....
Twinstiq, game news
He continued: "Still, 'phwooar', eh? eh?"
Fuck Microsoft for caving and apologizing. Fuck the media for continuing to amplify the voices of a minority who always take offense to everything in a never ending pursuit of fostering controversy and whoring attention for hits and views.
Just because you object to something doesn't grant you the right to ruin it for others who disagree with you.
I think the men are being treated as objects more than the women.
Though of course both are inappropriate.
Why do these stories always single out programmers? If you think that is bad, you should s what the sales tam typically does, my gosh.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Those aren't real feminists. Women who don't like other women being sexy are usually fat/jealous losers. Groups like "Femen" aren't real feminists either.
Just hire some good-looking scantily clad dudes and call it a day. They'll probably be ignored, since 90% of the attendees are heterosexual males, but nobody could accuse M.S. of being unfair.
This is only if you're an engineer. If you're in marketing or sales, the proper etiquette is to show up and drink all night. If you happen to become the life of the party, act completely inappropriately, and end up taking two women back to your hotel room, the worst that will happen to you is you will be the target of good-natured (and jealous) ribbing for the next few weeks. Unless one of the women is the boss's wife, of course. I imagine there's similar embarrassing behavior for women ("dancing on the table" is one i've heard), since marketing and sales are more gender balanced.
This is Slashdot, News For Nerds.
Your problem is you are under the old definition of Nerd, truly caring mostly about purely technical matters...
That's not true of the newer Nerd Classes, coming from a much broader set of viewpoints, many of whom would be considered classic SJW, who cannot separate technology and culture.... and indeed it's hard to blame them because the two are colliding fast.
So it would not surprise me if that went through firehose and got voted on because there are a lot of people here who would describe this story as almost pure tech in nature (after all, it was a technical development conference and concerns technical culture).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sure, if this was an office with a mixed crowd trying to accomplish the business charter and meet payroll. I agree with you. This is a Conference, which is informal as hell.
I have to wonder though, who is the sexist being discussed in TFA. Those women who are using their looks to make a ton of money? Unless Microsoft brought in slaves, this is a two way arrangement where someone is making money and someone is spending money.
That basic logic is what gets missed by people attempting to pit the people against each other (though most miss it completely). Women make huge piles of cash modelling, but if a guy appreciates her looks he is bad. Well, if he didn't appreciate the look the model would make money along the scale of male models. Who is getting screwed in that part of the crusade? It's not the guy, that's for damn sure.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Funny how I remember some court cases over unfair dismissal because of the way some people have acted at some of these things and the puritan bosses that set it up decided to punish them for it.
It's a minefield when you are on the clock.
awful lot of posters in a need of a swirly.
Just your mom....
Just cut out the middle man - hold it at a strip club or hire prostitutes - they're just going to be rubbing one out in the mens room...
They part where they were used as sex objects. I know all the blood is rushing to your crotch but still....
Non-white people have to put up with subtle and not-so-subtle racism all the time, sadly. Some are luckier than others (or more privileged, to use the jargon), but most have experienced it. White people for the most part have not, so when they suddenly do they find it difficult to handle.
It's not just discrimination against white people, it's when their own biases are pointed out. They take it personally, even when the issue is institutional or someone pointing out that common behaviour is actually problematic for them.
Of course the usual caveats apply, it's not all white people, and some minorities get it too. It's just that it does seem to be a thing, as most Slashdot debates on the subject prove.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Sorry but that's about as intelligent as asking why there is a time administration code for "available" if you should NEVER EVER put a single minute of your time booking on that code...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Is it the men, exploited in a mistaken, if somewhat reliable, physchological manipulation technique to remove their money or reasoning faculties, or the women who are getting paid for nothing other than the fact they can use their physique to manipulate men?
Is it the women being "objectified", despite being totally in control of what others do to their physical form, unlike actual objects, or is it the men who are being dismissed as unintelligent reactive morons led by their unthinking dicks?
Is the problem not a patriarchy but a matriarchy that stands behind powerful men and manipulate them to both obey their wishes and take the fall.
"Behind every great man, lies a great woman". Doesn't that conjure up the Eminence Grease "Grand Vizir" of fantasy villain fame. Except, of course, such evil characters are always men. But such powers behind the throne, aren't they "Behind every great man, lies a great Grand Vizir Villain pulling the strings"?
And wouldn't such a manipulator pull strings so that they would be automatically and unthinkingly excluded from such suspicion?
Yes I agree too much sexism. They need to hire men based on their looks to walk around doing nothing but looking good and talking. Instead of forcing them to seek employment based on their competence at the job and brains.
Judging by the posted picture of the event, with plenty of people on the dance floor and with drinks in hand, it seems they understand the concept of party as well. If you think this event was intended for small talk, non alcoholic drinks, and leaving by 8pm, as the commenter i was responding to seems to think, then i don't know what to tell you. You wanna tell me just what part of my comment you found so unintelligent?
Then you'll get complaints that you don't have anyone that identifies as a cat.
Those aren't real feminists.
Ah, the "no true feminist" fallacy. This is why I reject labels, like feminist. I am most certainly in favor of women's rights, and equality of opportunity. I am not in favor of fighting over whether I get to wear a label or not.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Would people complain if Microsoft had 3D holograms of virtual women dancing? People could even pick which characters they want to see dancing.
I pick Kasumi*, pole dancing.
* from Dead or Alive volleyball. In a her Gentian swimsuit.
Seriously, this "I'm the center of the universe" bullshit has gotten way out of hand.
I have been attending various computers shows since the lat 80's and they always seem to fill their booths with your hot woman. If you ask the women if they work for MS or Cisco or apple or whatever they will say actually they work for a modeling agency and they are there just to hand out swag. The gaming and computer industry is made up mostly of us geek guys. Just like when I go to Motorcycle Shows or Car Shows you have bikini girls handing out swag. Go to Bike Nite and you have bikini skanks handing out free beers and bottle openers. Hell I went to one bike nite and didn't pay for one drink because the alcohol industry was so enamored with giving bikers free drinks, in hopes they would get us to switch to their brands of whiskey, tequila, beer or whatever swill they gave away free drinks. Point is, marketing 101 is that sex sells. Even single geeky guys like sex and not necessarily with one another. So recieving swag from a hot model is always better than getting from a big bellied white guy but hey if it's free it's free.
Paul E. Bahre
Men like women. Women like men. This is nature. The constant accusations that everything is sexist represent a war with nature. The origin of this war is the Bible. Progressive SJWs, even if they are atheists and whether they know it or not, are acting on a fundamentally Abrahamic world-view.
This is a choice, though maybe not a conscious one. But it is an ignorant one.
It is not necessary, or essential, or the only possible interpretation that I take offense if women on average, want to mate with men who are more physically attractive than I. I can simply accept this, and play the cards I'm dealt as skillfully as I can. The same applies for women, and the fact that men like attractive females.
Attempting to redefine reality, what is attractive, etc. is intractable. So is the situation in which any time someone feels offended, the world is obliged to change its behavior to ensure that they never feel bad again.
This nonsense needs to be put down. It is treasonous to the very idea of civilization, as it entrenches an attitude of constant conflict between identity groups. It is an insidious threat to individual liberty and a recipe for societal breakdown. It is not ethical. It is not noble. It is none of the things it is said to be by its promoters.
aren't you denying those sexy women self agency when you tell men not to hire them? If the women what to be seuxaulized, it's their choice, pure Parentism. Men still telling women what to do. One group is paying them to dance. another group is tellling them not to
Dear Whipslash and the Editors, Please never stop posting these stories. As an industry and a group of professionals it's important that we figure out how to not be dicks. As the saying goes, to those accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression. I, for one, am very glad to see these stories and even happier when fellow geeks take the time to point out that responses of male fragility are not reasonable. For example, the idea that no one should be upset because straight men don't get angry when a gay film doesn't market towards them...that's the whole freakin point. This is the Game Developer Conference. It shouldn't be a hetero-space, it should just be a space for game developers. It's not the Hetero Game Dev Conference, it's the Game Dev Conference... We have to talk about these things to make progress, and the idea that these stories are "too political" is bullshit. How many stories a week do we have about Apple vs FBI? None of these people complain that's too political, but that's exactly what that story is. People (undoubtedly privileged people) here are comfortable with stories about the technology of politics (crypto, Snowden, etc) but not the politics of technology (women, minorities, lgbtq participation, for a non-exhaustive example). How many stories have we seen here framing the surveillance state as an inherently racist, anti-black endeavor? (What do you think over-policing is? Real active surveillance looks like Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Eric Garner...) Now how many stories do we see here lionizing white male heroes (Barret Brown, Snowden, Lavabit founder) of the anti-government resistance? ...
It's very clear how a vocal group of /.'ers prefer minorities and females - silent and with no opinions whatsoever about their lived experiences. Talk about tech if you must, but please, talk about working in tech? Get over it, I have a raging hetero-hardon for Linus, he's so kewl. Let me suggest that it's fairly clear raw voting with no editorial intervention will not help us confront issues inherent to the majority thinking of our community.
Whipslash and the whole Editorial Crew - thank you for continuing to unearth these stories. They are necessary for us to mature.
To those calling for their removal, let me say that your speech speaks volumes. If you simply weren't interested you wouldn't post. It's clear that being considerate for others who are different from you (really making this *our* community, not just *your* community) makes you feel threatened. Time to grow up.
I think you mean whiplash. I do agree though, glad to see this here.
The women weren't forced, no female vistitor was excluded and i think microsoft themself treated them with respect, no idea if some visitor wasn't respectful.
Or do we need to have transgenderfluid entertainers only?
Surely, you jest. I'll remember this hilarious "sexist hiring practices" thing the next time I am in front of an all-female HR staff at the next 30 companies I decided to do contract work for and see zero women applicants at.
@Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
You're right in that it doesn't have anything to do with the methodology of developing games. However, neither does the Marxism statement. This talk isn't about the methodology of developing games. It's about the design of the game, of game mechanics and systems. "Game Designer" and "Game Developer" are not synonymous.
~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.