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Are US Courts 'Going Dark'? (justsecurity.org)

An anonymous reader writes: Judge Stephen Wm. Smith argues that questions about the government's "golden age of surveillance" miss an equally significant trend: that the U.S. Courts are "going dark". In a new editorial, he writes that "Before the digital age, executed search warrants were routinely placed on the court docket available for public inspection," but after the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986, more than 30,000 secret court surveillance orders were given just in 2006. He predicts that today's figure is more than double, "And those figures do not include surveillance orders obtained by state and local authorities, who handle more than 15 times the number of felony investigations that the feds do. Based on that ratio, the annual rate of secret surveillance orders by federal and state courts combined could easily exceed half a million."

Judge Smith also cites an increase in cases -- even civil cases -- that are completely sealed, but also an increase in "private arbitration" and other ways of resolving disputes which are shielded from the public eye. "Employers, Internet service providers, and consumer lenders have led a mass exodus from the court system. By the click of a mouse or tick of a box, the American public is constantly inveigled to divert the enforcement of its legal rights to venues closed off from public scrutiny. Justice is becoming privatized, like so many other formerly public goods turned over to invisible hands -- electricity, water, education, prisons, highways, the military."

The judge's conclusion? "Over the last 40 years, secrecy in all aspects of the judicial process has risen to literally unprecedented levels. "

117 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. And for good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most private citizens want their legal proceedings private. After all, we've already seen what "a matter of public record" leads to: mugshot websites, voter harassment, and your collected information available to the highest bidder.

    1. Re:And for good reason by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Making it "private" only increases the market value of your information, and puts it in the hands of black market criminals.

      --
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    2. Re:And for good reason by haus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Currently, I am on the receiving end of what I consider to a nuisance lawsuit. Someone went to the same school years ago as I was working on a graduate degree became upset because I called him an "ass", "fool", and an "embarrassment" when he set up a conference where he invites a speaker who was expressing that society had a runaway problem with witches.

      https://www.scribd.com/doc/287...

      The complaint is a train wreck, and I made a point of publishing it in several locations. The plaintiff had a fit and has been attempting to have them taken down. Fortunately, these are public documents and he has had limited success in these efforts. The amended complaint was served to me almost a year ago, and it quickly became clear that the plaintiff does not want the case to go to any type of decision, instead he is delaying over and over again (still waiting to hearing on a motion to dismiss submitted 10 months ago).

      While I would love to have my day in court so that this mess can finally be put to bed, I do find some comfort while I wait to be able to show others the details of the 'claims' being made against me (and the school, plus a dozen or so other individuals).

    3. Re:And for good reason by byornski · · Score: 1

      So the sensible thing would be to drop the case except that you'd end up paying lawyers fees?

    4. Re:And for good reason by Imrik · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can't drop a case when the other person is the plaintiff.

    5. Re:And for good reason by Wycliffe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most private citizens want their legal proceedings private. After all, we've already seen what "a matter of public record" leads to: mugshot websites, voter harassment, and your collected information available to the highest bidder.

      I think this is talking about more than just court records. This is talking about all the companies that make you waive your rights and instead are forced to use arbitration of their choosing. The easy solution for court records is to put them as a paper copy in a building and don't allow cameras. This would at least make them somewhat private for the average citizen. The easy solution for arbitration is to not allow it unless both parties agree. And I mean actually agree at the time of disagreement not some boilerplate agreement that is signed or clicked at the beginning in order to get service. For the most part, a person shouldn't be allowed to sign away their rights to sue in court. In certain situations like horseback riding, parachuting, etc... you assume certain risks when you do the activity but that's not the same as signing away your rights to sue if for instance they forget to pack a parachute in your bag.

    6. Re:And for good reason by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not really. TFA was quite clear that the problem is rampant in CRIMINAL trials, which are guaranteed by the Constitution to be PUBLIC trails. The intent behind that is to make the courts open enough that a citizen can satisfy himself that the trials are fair. It also defies the constitutional right for the defendant to see the evidence against him (ALL of the evidence) and rebut it.

      These aren't nit-picks, the secrecy undermines the legitimacy of the entire court system. I find it disturbing that anyone could manage to become a judge and either not understand that or not care.

    7. Re:And for good reason by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

      "Evangelical/Pentecostal-Charismatic Christian" ah, well, there's the real problem right there. They've got to maintain their feelings of persecution, and don't feel like a real person unless someone is trying to "nail them to the cross". I love how they capitalize Black US President, per grammerbook.com "white and black in reference to race are lowercase". The feeling of it all is invoking making all the defendants look like their all a huge group of conspiring racists without actually specifically saying so.

    8. Re:And for good reason by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      I agree. Sure there are some abuses in the form of mugshot websites and the like. The alternative is very fundamental systemic abused could go uncaught forever!

      Would we have an "Innocence Project" if court records were less public and it had not been possible to see systemic bias in justice from data?

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    9. Re:And for good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most private citizens want their legal proceedings private. After all, we've already seen what "a matter of public record" leads to: mugshot websites, voter harassment, and your collected information available to the highest bidder.

      Ah, yes, this is SO much better than the matter of private record in the form of FISA courts and NSLs, in the world where your collected information is hacked and made available to the highest bidder anyway.

      Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather have some accountability than worry about what happens to the reputations of convicted criminals after the fact. It's quite obvious which of those concerns has a larger impact in the long run.

    10. Re:And for good reason by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >but that's not the same as signing away your rights to sue if for instance they forget to pack a parachute in your bag.

      If they forget to pack your parachute... and you can still sue that would be pretty miraculous. They could argue that such an agreement prevents your family from suing but I'm fairly certain a sane judge will rule that they can't enforce the arbitration agreement on your family (who does, after all, have standing to sue for gross negligence and wrongful death) since they never signed the agreement - only you did and you're not the one suing (unless they have courts in heaven... which seems unlikely since all the dead lawyers are in hell).

      Joking aside though - there is a lot of painful historical lessons behind the idea that justice must be seen to be done. Private justice is essentially an oxymoron. If it's more efficient then that's an argument for making courts less inefficient - not argument against the public having scrutiny over the justice done in it's name.

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    11. Re:And for good reason by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      > I find it disturbing that anyone could manage to become a judge and either not understand that or not care.

      In plenty of states judges are elected. That's one way to get incompetent people on the bench. Oh and did you know that the majority of judicial elections are uncontested ? A complete idiot can run and be guaranteed of getting a cushy job as a judge after scraping past the bar exam on his 14th try because nobody else is running and him and his mother are the only people who bothered to go vote...

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    12. Re:And for good reason by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The only legal proceedings I have even been involved with, the _other_ party wanted private. In general, I am willing and proud to have my disputes available for all to see. In general, I would think that the party seeking privacy - especially secrecy - is implicitly admitting guilt of some kind.

    13. Re:And for good reason by MitchDev · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No Kidding.

      Frankly civil trials should also be fully public, it might help curb a lot of the abuses by big business if they knew they couldn't hide behind a "secrecy" agreement

    14. Re:And for good reason by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      Interestingly I read an article just this morning about how persecuted this group is professionally by people who have your exact same dismissive tone: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05... Good job keeping hate alive :-)

    15. Re:And for good reason by sjames · · Score: 1

      That's a perfect example that the need and benefit is more than theoretical.

    16. Re:And for good reason by sjames · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I can understand why a plaintiff might be up against the wall enough to accept a secrecy clause in a settlement, but it is against the public interest to keep others in the dark about the past bad behavior of the defendant.

    17. Re:And for good reason by sjames · · Score: 1

      That might have worked at one time, but the very nature of communities has changed to the point that it's not really a viable way to choose a viable judge these days.

    18. Re:And for good reason by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I'm not in favour of it at all (in case that wasn't clear from my post). Maybe it was viable once, I don't have the information to form an opinion, but today it's a disaster. Judges get a lot of job security and leeway, exactly to ensure their impartiality - but this also means they should be selected with care. Preferably by people who have already gone through the process and can adjudicate their legal expertise and fairmindedness from an expert position. Judicial councils are a much better system. Probably not perfect of course - but far better than leaving the appointment of a judge up to whoever bothers to vote in such a small election.

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    19. Re:And for good reason by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      Your welcome. This group brings the persecution on itself. Add in the fact that many of them want the US to become a Christian version of Iran, people like Cruz's father and his "Purifying Fire International" organization...it's hard to be rational with anyone who feels that the world needs to end in a fiery conflagration.

    20. Re:And for good reason by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Around here, judges usually leave office by resigning during their term, and having a replacement appointed. A lot of people simply vote for the incumbent judge, so what we've got is appointive judges with the ability to recall every eight years or so. Your complete idiot could register and be a candidate, but the incumbent would win (and there's virtually always an incumbent).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    21. Re: And for good reason by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Your mistake is thinking the incumbent was not the complete idiot.

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    22. Re: And for good reason by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The incumbent was almost certainly appointed with a reasonable selection process, and therefore is almost never a complete idiot.

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      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    23. Re: And for good reason by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Erm - judicial elections, where they exist, have been around for centuries. They aren't a new invention replacing more typical selection processes that were in place within our lifetime. The incumbent was either elected or appointed BY somebody elected. The length of the chain may vary but it does nothing about idiot likelihood, quite the opposite in fact. When a single judge chooses the next judge (as opposed to a council) he is incredibly likely to choose one that shares his personal idiocies.

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    24. Re: And for good reason by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Which is one reason why judges don't choose their successors. Where I live, there is a process involving multiple people to make recommendations. It does a good job of keeping the complete idiots out.

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      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    25. Re: And for good reason by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Then it's not really a region of elected justices is it ? If actual elections basically never happen ?
      Surely then you cannot take your region as representative of those where they are frequent events ?

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    26. Re:And for good reason by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      This group brings the persecution on itself....

      Nice way to legitimize your hate. The argument of "they bring it on themselves" can be used on just about any group if you cherry pick the topic. Truth be told I've met many Christians from a variety of churches and haven't met anyone advocating a Theocracy. But I haven't been everywhere so maybe your area is different, though I find it hard to imagine that more than a small fringe would really want a Theocracy.

    27. Re:And for good reason by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      I'll admit that "my area" does indeed create a bias. I'm in Tulsa, OK...Ten Commandments on the State Capital grounds (now gone), history classes being pushed that includes prayers and speeches by Reagan and Bush, Sally Kerns, etc. I didn't say Christians in general, but specifically Evangelical Christians, the Dominionists like Ted Cruz and David Barton. Most Christians don't want to return to only following Levitical law; but the members of Rafael Cruz's "Purifying Fire International" do and want to go even farther and start Revelation's "Times of Tribulation" on their own.

    28. Re:And for good reason by sjames · · Score: 1

      The danger of judicial councils is forming an echo chamber but I honestly don't have a better answer.

    29. Re:And for good reason by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1
      Almost no Christians want a return to Levitical law as they generally see it as replaced by the New Testament. Regarding OK, I don't live there so I can't really comment from experience. I have known some people who lived there for a time (Air Force) and liked it. As far as the 10 commandments, I'd consider this analogy. A liberal sees the 10 commandments on a courthouse and is pained inside and thinks there outta be a lawsuit. A conservative sees to guys kissing and getting married and feels the same. In a sense, neither was hurt and neither suffers any loss but both are bothered. A liberal cries that conservatives want to force their values on others then does the exact same thing just with different values and in different areas.

      I'm actually far more concerned about the dying middle class and loss of opportunities for the 99% than I am about social issues of virtually no consequence such as the 10 commandments being (or not being) on display at a court house or the transgender bathroom debate. Petty social issues keep us divided. The brilliance of "we are the 99%" is how stark the difference is between the top 1% and the rest of us. However to defeat the 99% all the 1% has to do is bring up transgender bathrooms, 10 commandments, white privilege, etc.

      Consider that the 99% includes every category, Christian and athiest, straight and gay, black and white. If you want to have the power of the 99% then you can't allow petty issues to divide that up.

    30. Re:And for good reason by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      Here's some background for you: State Rep. Sally Kern files three bills targeting gays"

      rejecting AP History for speeches like "the sermon known as"Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God""

      OK Reps using their authority in attempting to ban "anti-Biblical plays"

      The 10 Commandments monument was directly against the OK Constitution, so now their attempting to change it. Highly ironic seeing the divorce rate of many of their members.

      Counter this with our courts saying Forced sodomy isn't illegal if she's unconscious.

      Don't want to get raped by a OK cop? Well, Oklahoma Highway Patrol Captain George Brown main suggestion is First and foremost: Do your part, and do what it takes to obey the traffic laws and not get stopped

      Don't forget the attempt to mandate Creationism being taught in public schools,

      This is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure someone who really wants to could find far more examples, these are just the more recent ones. These attempted laws are quite diversion, and are going down the path of ISIS.

    31. Re:And for good reason by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      That's a lot of links but I figure that if you can take the time to find them then I'll take the time to read them. (time passes while I read) OK, I read them and it seems like some of these are quite reasonable, such as amending the forced sodomy bill or allowing people to decline potential customers, and others just seem like regional decisions such as how negative or positive the AP History presents US history. To be honest, you seem to not like OK and would probably be happier in CA. I live in CA and I chafe against the liberals here much how you chafe against the conservatives there. My bigger point is that you can learn to get along with people despite differences. Rejecting all Christians as "bringing persecution on themselves" is no different than Christians rejecting all gays as bringing persecution on themselves. Although it's pretty cliche, can't we all just get along? There will always be petty issues that can be used to divide people if we let ourselves get divided. We are the 99% if we can learn to get along. We can make a much better and happier world together if we can get along.

    32. Re:And for good reason by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      Yet I don't "reject all Christians", in fact I've stated this at least twice in our thread here. The only group I have any issue with are the Evangelical / Dominionist Christians, and even then it's mostly because of the times I've been "preached to" inside of stores, in the street, etc. I'm actually a huge fan of Gnosticism, and feel that there is a huge part of the underlying mythology that has been erased that would "fill in" most of the "mismatches" and contradictions between the various Books of the current bible. Add in the horrendous translations such as the King James and the issues multiple; especially when the Evangicals claim the Bible is "absolute truth" even though their quoting from a translation of a translation. One of the more useful tools I've used is a book like this which is a direct translation from the original Hebrew; with copious footnotes for the words that don't actually exist in modern English like the "suffer a witch"; the actual word is MeKhashefah and is probably closer to "poisoner" (ie, someone who poisons rival villages wells) and not a witch. And then there is the "witch of Endor", who was actually a ba'al ob; or gastromancy. King James had a beef against witches, believing some had attempted to murder him, sink some of his ships, etc.

  2. United States of America: by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Land of the [Redacted].

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    1. Re:United States of America: by Quzak · · Score: 2

      Home of the [Data Expunged].

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    2. Re:United States of America: by davester666 · · Score: 1

      no, not expunged. withheld.

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  3. The "Dark" side of information access by Etcetera · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Previously, the amount of information gleamable was limited by the need to have physical access to the court. Someone would have to go down to the courthouse, hall of records, or similar location, and physically look at things. Now, one button and the entire country is searchable.

    Unfortunately, this ease of information access removes the grey area of "public, but requires time/effort to get and is not easily accessible," and as a result, it's a lot more black and white. The parallels with massive aggregation of data, Hack Once Break Everywhere security issues, and even physical access to an iPhone by the FBI being sufficient or insufficient to overcome local security options, are all similar technological areas where a dichotomy is coming into play.

    I can't say I think this is a good thing. Grey areas are good. Humans are grey, and technical models of human society should have grey considerations as well.

    1. Re:The "Dark" side of information access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The government has been exploiting all of this easy information to prosecute (or even persecute) people. Now they are seeing it work both ways and they're having second thoughts.

    2. Re:The "Dark" side of information access by m00sh · · Score: 2

      Previously, the amount of information gleamable was limited by the need to have physical access to the court. Someone would have to go down to the courthouse, hall of records, or similar location, and physically look at things. Now, one button and the entire country is searchable.

      Unfortunately, this ease of information access removes the grey area of "public, but requires time/effort to get and is not easily accessible," and as a result, it's a lot more black and white. The parallels with massive aggregation of data, Hack Once Break Everywhere security issues, and even physical access to an iPhone by the FBI being sufficient or insufficient to overcome local security options, are all similar technological areas where a dichotomy is coming into play.

      I can't say I think this is a good thing. Grey areas are good. Humans are grey, and technical models of human society should have grey considerations as well.

      Personal information can easily be redacted and the records still made available online.

      Data aggregation is also a very positive thing since it gives information on the trends in society.

      The absolute worst thing is to hide the information away and carry out these activities in secret.

    3. Re:The "Dark" side of information access by Kjella · · Score: 2

      I can't say I think this is a good thing. Grey areas are good. Humans are grey, and technical models of human society should have grey considerations as well.

      And how - short of turning back time - would we achieve that? Like 25 years ago "sexting" was not a problem because we didn't have cell phones or digicams, but short of the Amish nobody wants to go back there. The only question is how you go forwards, whether it's wailing and moaning about how things were better before or not and if you got any meaningful choices going forward.

      I don't think you could will the gray areas back even if you wanted to. Maybe the question is as simple as choosing black or white? I'd pick private communication and private data, but unfortunately I think public opinion might be more "if you got nothing to hide, you got nothing to fear so just let the government rifle through it all looking for bad guys". Because that's where I think you ultimately end up, we're just moving in that direction much more slowly than I thought. I think I had pretty much the exact same thoughts 10+ years ago and expected crunch time to have come and gone by now.

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    4. Re:The "Dark" side of information access by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      And how - short of turning back time - would we achieve that?

      European style privacy laws. Europe doesn't have extortion web sites listing people's arrests and convictions because they would be illegal. Even though old newspaper articles can still appear online, people can request that search engines not link them to their name if the law deems the issue irrelevant or out of date.

      Despite all the outrage and people screaming that it wouldn't work, it has had no impact on journalism and works very well.

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  4. U.S. government: No longer a democracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that the U.S. government is moving rapidly toward greater and greater corruption.

  5. inveigled by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    learned a new word today. /. is more like Reader's Digest everyday.

    1. Re:inveigled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hurrah! An exceedingly cromulent post!

  6. More of an issue for litigation that criminality by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 2

    This is more of an issue (in some ways) for litigation. Criminal information will be public for a long time yet; there is too much interest in being able to run background checks. It would be great if we had better laws allowing records to be expunged after a certain number of years, but too many upper-middle-class people have so little exposure to law enforcement (or have such limited time) that they use "has an arrest record" as a proxy for "will be a bad employee/tenant/etc..."

    But on the civil side, one of the benefits of most settlements, mediations, and arbitrations is that the result is secret rather than public. The bigger benefit is that it is so much faster than having to go to court, which can take years to resolve issues you should be able to hash out in less than six months.

    And then there is the national security and "under seal" stuff, which should probably have a default expiry date for the seal any time something is filed under seal.

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  7. I wish ... by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... Judge Judy and her ilk would go dark.

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    Have gnu, will travel.
  8. Take a look at the patent courts by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    Is it any surprise anyone doing business would want to get away from public courts that are often arbitrary and capricious ?

  9. Re:and for good reason that I wish to be anon by Quzak · · Score: 1

    Learn to make your own ammo. Much easier and usually produces a far better product. Many resources out there if you are interested (And you should be!). Happy hunting!

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  10. This is how it starts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Forget what you think a police state or authoritarian hellhole looks like, secret courts are really it. The justice system is where you're supposed to be able to make your case against charges, where bad laws are struck down, where the truth is revealed, you have a constitutional right to face the evidence, whether it's facts gathered or people, or a video recording, the second that system gets locked behind "National Security", such as many of the laws are where you can't even find out which one you broke because those very laws are secret themselves. If you can't cross examine the evidence and the law, question it in every detail, and do so in a public manner is when you know you're really in a dog and pony show and not a court. These systems set a terrifying precedent, they should've been disbanded and dissolved years ago, allowing them to continue just enables our decent into a totalitarian state, and once that happens, it will be hell to get out of, especially with technology being abused to get us there.

    1. Re:This is how it starts by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Men in the UK have to face rape charges from women who can remain anonymous

      Considering that every legitimate study and every reliable piece of data suggests that less than one in a million rape charges are falsely filed, this is really not a major concern. the fact that less than one in 20 actual rapes get reported at all - now that's a problem.

      See, it's impossible for false rape charges to be a problem AND for rapes to be hugely underreported with a terribly low conviction rate and frequently followed by slap-on-the-wrist sentences. Making false rape charges make no sense. It's perjury - and if you're caught you risk serious jailtime, and you have almost no chance of actually getting the person prosecuted. You want to try to ruin his reputation in the court of public opinion ? Good luck when you remain anonymous. People will have serious doubts unless there is compelling evidence of guilt.

      Hell considering how massive the rate of underreporting is in rape cases, if letting the victim keep her anonymity to protect her from a media circus after a traumatic experience gets just one in a hundred more of them reported - then that's worth it. Terrible choice of example - but I'm guessing from it that you're one of those MRA types who are immune to facts and sincerely believe that not only are false-rape charges a real thing that may happen to you, but that they are a bigger problem than rape. You're probably also opposed to affirmative consent, because if she's too drunk to say no you think it's NOT rape to fuck her ?

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    2. Re:This is how it starts by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      such as many of the laws are where you can't even find out which one you broke because those very laws are secret themselves.

      A secret law is no law at all. If a law is secret it can only regulate the actions of those who have clearance to the secrets, and thus the laws themselves.

      Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law and that is right, but how can they expect you to obey they law if they won't tell you what it is? I suppose that just makes convictions easier.

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    3. Re:This is how it starts by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Considering that every legitimate study and every reliable piece of data suggests that less than one in a million rape charges are falsely filed, this is really not a major concern. the fact that less than one in 20 actual rapes get reported at all - now that's a problem.

      According to http://rapecrisis.org.uk/stati... in England and Wales you get on average 97,000 rapes a year, lets push that to 100 for numbers sake and you get one false rape claim every ten years? Is that what you're saying? Even double it to count Scotland and NI to cover the whole UK and that's 1 false claim every 5 years, which I would put to you is bullshit. Where are your studies and evidence because I've never heard that before? Maybe 1 in 10 is false, maybe even 1 in 100, maybe 1 in 1,000 if you take withdrawn consent, technical rape etc, I don't know but 1 in 1,000,000? No fucking way.

      Now, I'm not sure if that 97k is reported or assumed but that would make your 1 in 20 claim mean in England and Wales there are up to 2,000,000 rapes a year, every year, with 56m total you would get practically the entire population raped in just over 25 years (assuming majority of single cases). Wow, it's a wonder we get anything else done

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    4. Re:This is how it starts by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law and that is right, but how can they expect you to obey they law if they won't tell you what it is?

      The error here is in the premise. Ignorance is a perfectly good excuse when the law is secret, or else so complex that one one can reasonably be expected to be familiar with all the rules and regulations and legal precedents applicable to their actions or how they are likely to be interpreted. The concept that "ignorance is no excuse" dates back to a time when the entire law could be inscribed on a sign and posted in the village square. Even putting aside laws which are not freely available to the public (e.g. building codes) or outright secret, the wild proliferation of the legal system into a mass of overlapping and conflicting laws governing every aspect of modern life—more often than not accompanied by punishments far out of proportion to the supposed crimes—has rendered that argument obsolete. Ignorance can no longer be considered a matter of negligence.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    5. Re:This is how it starts by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      I would mod this insightful if it wasn't me you were replying to and I if had points.

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      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    6. Re:This is how it starts by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      "..Considering that every legitimate study and every reliable piece of data suggests that less than one in a million rape charges are falsely filed, this is really not a major concern. .."

      If that was remotely true then it would vastly exceed the ability of any court to get a right answer - for jury trials the error rate is about 1 out of 10 at best.. If it is true then as soon as a woman makes an accusation the man should simply be charged and sent straight to jail.. In reality the real figure is probably that somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 10 rape allegations are actually false.

      The question is are women human? if the answer is yes then they are just as likely to lie as men.

      Women lie - for money, for revenge, over sex, over power, for exactly the same reasons that men lie.. As is already quite widely known (as a statistical generalization) judges and juries are already biased in favour of young & pretty women. The younger you are, the prettier you are, if your sex is female, if you can cry on tap, all move the outcome statistics in a trial in your favour..

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    7. Re: This is how it starts by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      1 in a million worldwide. I never said "in the UK"

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    8. Re: This is how it starts by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      The post you quoted specified the UK.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    9. Re:This is how it starts by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      > If it is true then as soon as a woman makes an accusation the man should simply be charged and sent straight to jail.

      That's bullshit. Most rapes that *do* go to court are of the "violent stranger in the bushes" variety, where there is never any doubt that the rape occurred and the trials center almost entirely on "was THIS the man in the bushes or was it somebody else" ? Something determined by physical evidence. The cases where the man claims the sex was consensual are fairly rare, and most rapes like that go unreported. When they happen, more often than not the victim ends up being put on trial - was she drinking, what was she wearing etc. etc.

      > In reality the real figure is probably that somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 10 rape allegations are actually false.
      You base that on zero evidence other than your claimed accuracy of jury trials - which as I already pointed out is a hugely skewed sample and mostly deliberates a completely different topic (the identity of the rapist not whether it was rape).

      >The question is are women human? if the answer is yes then they are just as likely to lie as men.
      Of course, your mistake is that you're assuming they are about a hundred million times stupider than men and about a billion times MORE likely to lie - which is what it would take for your reckoning to be true. The risks for the woman is just too high. She will definitely be put on trial, accused of "leading on", her behaviour questioned, crucified in the press (especially if the man is popular). You think women don't KNOW about the 14 year old girl who was given enough vodka to tranquilize a horse (meaning it was legally impossible for her to consent and ANY sexual activity was, by definition, rape) and then gangraped by 5 guys and when she charged them found the entire community blaming HER for getting the star football players in trouble. When the risks outweigh any rewards by that much - there's no point in lying. People lie for self-gain, they don't lie when it will likely hurt themselves more than the person they are trying to hurt.
      I suspect your belief that women lie about THIS so much is not really because you think women are of such inferior intelligence and/or superior vindictiveness... I think you just have absolutely no idea what hell awaits any woman who accuses a specific, known, man of raping her. Because you underestimate the risks - you overestimate the relative rewards and come up with a hugely increased likelihood of her thinking it's worth it. The reality is that nearly all men ever accused of rape WERE guilty and the vast majority of rapists never get punished.

      >The younger you are, the prettier you are, if your sex is female, if you can cry on tap, all move the outcome statistics in a trial in your favour..

      Yeah... that explains why the conviction rate in the "is it rape" cases is so ridiculously low. It's actually statistically impossible for that many accused rapists to be INNOCENT. Prosecutors are, after all, trained professionals and know how to keep their jobs and the number one way to keep your job is not to proceed with cases unless you think you have a good chance at winning.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    10. Re: This is how it starts by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >I've been accused of rape 3 times by 3 different women all of them false.

      Unlikely, in fact, SO unlikely I am convinced by the mere fact you stated that they were all TRUE - and you are just another rapist bastard who beat the system.
      If there is any question about consent - you are guilty. Anything other than a sober, intentional "yes please" is rape.

      If I can have lots and lots of sex while only ever touching a woman who has expressed a specific desire for said touching while of sound mind - then so can you.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    11. Re:This is how it starts by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There are no good statistics. It's often impossible to determine consent or non-consent beyond a reasonable doubt, meaning that it's often hard to determine whether a given sex act is rape or if the accusation is false. Without a reliable way to tell if there was consent or not, it's simply not possible to come up with good stats on how many of these accusations are true or false.

      In some cases, rape victims have been vilified, but in many cases there's not going to be a penalty for a false accusation. The prosecutor will realize that there's no good case and drop charges, so the alleged victim doesn't get examined in court. The alleged rapist may be arrested and held for a short time, or suffer a reputation hit. It may be useful to the accuser to have the alleged rapist out of commission for a short time, or it can be used for real or imagined revenge. The example you used of suffering from reporting a rape is extreme and is not a situation a false accuser is going to get in in the first place.

      However, you seem to have your mind completely made up, without the need for facts.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    12. Re:This is how it starts by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Oh come on, men who actually plead guilty get away with a slap on the wrist.
      Take this guy for example - pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting and attempting to rape a 15 year old girl (he was more than 10 years older) and got away with a fine... a fucking fine, and he still has a high paying job - which includes being the public spokesman for his company !
      http://mg.co.za/article/2007-1...

      Considering how mild the punishments are for people who are guilty (and even admitted it in court by pleading guilty)... all the bullshit about the horror of false accusations simply don't hold water.

      Fix the problems of victim-blaming, figure out better ways to determine whether there was true consent - solve the problems that allow rapists to consistently get away with it and be defended by society and when you've done all that... THEN you will have a valid case to treat false accusations as a problem.

      Nobody thinks they never happen - but frankly every other problem related to sexual assault, consent and rape is so massively bigger that they are simply not worthy of concern. Hell men GET RAPED more often than they are falsely accused of it.

      There are a million jokes about prison rape... men are petrified of going to prison and being in an area where there is a constant risk of being raped. Most prisoners are not rapists - but it only takes a few to make all the others victims. That image men have of what it's like to be in prison where you can't escape from those few and are likely to be a victim... that's the whole world for women. The vast majority of men are not rapist, but the few that are face so little punishment, so little risk of even being caught let alone convicted and such high odds of being protected - that the whole world is a constant threat of rape to women anyway because the few bastards who do are not put away. And every man who defends that status quo is complicit in it.

      I'm a male feminist because I have a 2 year old girl and I want her to grow up in a world where that's not true anymore.

      >The example you used of suffering from reporting a rape is extreme
      No, it's really not - it's what happens in the vast majority of cases. It's incredibly rare that people do NOT ask questions like "what was she wearing" or "was she drinking". Such questions are extremely wrong. It doesn't matter what SHE did - it's NEVER part of the issue. The ONLY valid questions are what HE did and whether she WANTED him to and said so while sober and of sound mind (a person who is drunk cannot consent to sex - it's not legally possible anywhere in the free world and it's about time we enforce that law). Blaming the victim starts with questions like that, and if people don't like the answers it INVARIABLY leads to blaming her for ruining the man's life - with no regard for her own.

      > is not a situation a false accuser is going to get in in the first place.
      Of course she is ! Why would you possibly imagine that victim blamers will only blame the victim when she's real ?

      >However, you seem to have your mind completely made up, without the need for facts.
      I'm the one who is STATING facts. The MRA's paranoia is NOT based on facts - it's a story made up to demonize women and convince people that equal rights is a bad idea and that raping is their birth-rate. The man more than anybody responsible for telling everybody that false rapes are this big a concern - is the SAME man who wrote publicly that raping somebody in a private residence should be legal.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    13. Re:This is how it starts by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I am aware of much of what you said, but I think you're partly wrong on false accusations.

      Rape is not something the victim has control over. False accusations are things the accuser has control over, and that's why a false accuser isn't going to be in the position of the victim you talked about. I maintain that was an unusually bad case of victim-blaming (not that victim-blaming is rare, unfortunately), and that's why you picked it.

      People are sometimes falsely accused of rape (such as the Duke lacrosse players, I don't think it's common, but I really don't see how to verify that opinion. I'd suspect that most false rape accusations get dropped early on, and we don't hear about them.

      You seem to miss the point that, if two people have sex when neither is in a state to consent, both people are guilty of rape. Also, by your definition of required consent, both my wife and I have raped each other by initiating sex without spoken consent. While you recognize that men get raped, you refer only to men raping women.

      The biggest problem with rape and jurisprudence is that it's often very difficult to determine beyond a reasonable doubt whether there was consent or not. More than most such problems, rape has to be dealt with by influencing the culture, and that's starting way worse than you and I like.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    14. Re:This is how it starts by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >both people are guilty of rape
      True - but in that case it doesn't make much sense to prosecute either one and generally neither are.

      >both my wife and I have raped each other by initiating sex without spoken consent.
      Nowhere did I say it has to be a VERBAL yes, though whenever you are with somebody you do not know very well you SHOULD insist on that. It's one thing to read non-verbal qeues from a spouse you know well - it's quite another with somebody else, and it's way to easy to claim you misinterpreted a "no" as a "yes" so we MUST side with the accuser in those cases. If you insist on a verbal "yes" with any hookups or casual sex you are entirely in the clear. Oh and that's a "yes" for every activity - not just a "yes" to sex. Just because a girl is happy to blow you doesn't mean she wants penetration - and assuming so is still rape. And it's not MY definition - it's the law, all over the free world and has been for decades. That you don't know this is exactly why we have a problem.

      > While you recognize that men get raped, you refer only to men raping women.
      A matter of prioritization not diminishing anything. Men get raped far less often than women - so it's a far smaller problem and since resources are limited we need to focus them on the massive problem not the rare one. Especially since - most of what we can do to help with the massive problem will ALSO help with the rare one. I don't deny the severity of men being raped, or the problems associated with it - it's just that it is much rarer. Oh and 90% of the time men get raped - it is by other men, and the vast majority of those men identify as straight. I live in the rape capital of the world - in my entire life I've read of exactly ONE violent female on male rape (a gang-rape actually by several women). I read of women getting gangraped every WEEK.

      >The biggest problem with rape and jurisprudence is that it's often very difficult to determine beyond a reasonable doubt whether there was consent or not
      This is true - but to pretend this harms men more than women is simply ignorant. By far the worst outcome of that is the many victims who have no chance of ever seeing justice.

      >More than most such problems, rape has to be dealt with by influencing the culture, and that's starting way worse than you and I like.
      Finally you're saying something I entirely agree with.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  11. Millions of people have been doxed by meadow · · Score: 1

    There are greasebag companies now which scour local court electronic documentation systems and publish all the records on their websites which are then indexed by major search engines. The upshot is that *anyone* who has had a case in court - even the most minor small claims court - has all their personal information published online and easily available via search engine, including their name, phone number, and address.

    Initially I'm sure its obvious why courts have electronic documentation systems, but those records would only have been accessible by a person who was specifically trying to access them, and knew exactly what court system's records to look at. Now *all* those records from all systems are on Google. The privacy of millions of people who have used their local court system for any reason - even the most minor disputes - have not lost their privacy and essentially been doxed by these greasebag companies which are doing this and claiming its a crusade for transparency and freedom.

    1. Re:Millions of people have been doxed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We need a better term than 'lost privacy' for things like this where privacy never applied. All one really ever had was a sort of pseudo-anonymity.

    2. Re:Millions of people have been doxed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no 'privacy' aspect to anything you have described. It's an open court, and the local gossip knows what was said in it. The reason it's an open court is precisely so that everyone WILL know about it. A closed court is a star chamber. Meanwhile anyone who wants to look up my address can check the electoral roll. My phone number is in the book.

    3. Re:Millions of people have been doxed by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Transparency is better than the alternative. Analyze any case (general case, not a specific example) and transparency benefits more people than secrecy would. Secret military undertaking? Benefits the smaller/weaker side, or a few politicians who would lose political position because of majority opinion. Secret financial transactions? Benefits those who might otherwise be taxed. Secret sexual affair? Generally benefits the involved parties at the expense of larger families or groups.

      Secret of Santa? Let's save things like that for childhood. If people would grow up and face reality, they wouldn't need secrets.

    4. Re:Millions of people have been doxed by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      You can reveal the truth of this by publishing all your bank details and pin numbers and passwords right now.. :) Me I prefer a little secrecy.

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    5. Re:Millions of people have been doxed by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Stop referring to Privacy as a secret. People are entitled to privacy. We need to recognize that public record shouldn't mean searchable by typing in google in every case. There are some things that absolutely should be and others, like someones divorce decree (easily the most hostile court filing often with false and defamatory information) that has no public value in 99.999999% of cases.

      I'm ok with where the court system determines some public court record being on the internet violates personal privacy and requiring that anyone that wants a copy of the record to pay money (nominal amount say $5 to prevent mass copying) and get a printed copy. This will still allow the records to be public and make it to the internet in the 0.000001% of cases where it's actually relevant while keeping it from affecting someones job search who isn't a public person.

    6. Re:Millions of people have been doxed by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      When everyone's dirty laundry is readily available, having some stupid court filing on public display won't be as damaging as it is today.

      Today, even little things can be used as blackmail. When everyone's human failings are readily apparent, that won't really hold water anymore.

    7. Re:Millions of people have been doxed by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Revealing my identity keys to someone who would use them to impersonate me is the opposite of a transparent action. False impersonation should remain a crime, if transparency is to have any value.

  12. arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Judge Smith also cites an increase in cases -- even civil cases -- that are completely sealed, but also an increase in "private arbitration" and other ways of resolving disputes which are shielded from the public eye.

    Sealing legal proceedings before a public court is an outrage in a democracy; the application of government force must remain open in a democracy.

    For people to resolve their disputes by private arbitration, however, is fine; that's a private choice and no government force is involved; therefore, there is no justification or need to have such resolutions be public.

    1. Re:arbitration != court by Moof123 · · Score: 1

      Increasingly arbitration is written into all sorts of contracts. Oral surgeon for wisdom teeth demanded it. Cell phone plans demand it. And so on. As a lowly individual you generally can do nothing when all the viable vendors ask you to opt out of the court system as a condition of doing business.

      I don't think it should be allowed in such lopsided situations as a major corporation and a lowly individual.

      Hell, I think most EULA's should be nullified.

    2. Re:arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Increasingly arbitration is written into all sorts of contracts. Oral surgeon for wisdom teeth demanded it.

      Your oral surgeon isn't a "major corporation", and wisdom teeth extraction is risky; you could drag him through the courts for years, ruining his practice, simply because of some accident.

      Cell phone plans demand it.

      So what? If you don't like your cell phone company, you switch, end of story.

      I don't think it should be allowed in such lopsided situations as a major corporation and a lowly individual.

      There are layers and layers of fail stacked on top of each other: barriers to entry, regulation, inefficient court systems, medical liability law, legal licensing, etc.

      In any case, courts don't work very well, and arbitration is actually a pretty good dispute resolution mechanism; obviously, it's important to ensure it is fair.

    3. Re:arbitration != court by GoChickenFat · · Score: 1

      For people to resolve their disputes by private arbitration, however, is fine; that's a private choice and no government force is involved; therefore, there is no justification or need to have such resolutions be public.

      Unless, of course, you're going on Judge Judy.

    4. Re:arbitration != court by Moof123 · · Score: 1

      Which cell companies don't have arbitration clauses? We have large segments of the business world who have all made similar requirements. You can't simply go down the road, as they are all doing it.

    5. Re:arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Which cell companies don't have arbitration clauses?

      You misunderstood. I'm not saying that you can switch to a cell company that doesn't have arbitration clauses, I'm saying that disputes involving cell companies are best solved by simply switching companies. I don't want to have to pay more for cell service because you are hell bent on suing my cell company for millions in damages over some triviality.

    6. Re:arbitration != court by Shade+Everdark · · Score: 2

      Arbitration might be a good mechanism for resolving disputes, if there existed any way to ensure their impartiality. (I am referring here exclusively to the United States, as I lack sufficient knowledge to speak on the laws governing other nations). However, in virtually all cases where a consumer signs an EULA or other agreement stipulating mandatory arbitration as a means of dispute resolution, the arbiter is literally bought and paid for by the corporation, or whoever is selling the product or offering the service. This includes no input from the consumer as to who gets selected to mediate the dispute. Unsurprisingly, as of 2009 mediators found in favor of the consumer in only 4% of arbitration cases, and there have been numerous accusations regarding the influence of corporations on the arbitrators. As far as I see it, forced arbitration is nothing more than an attempt by greedy entities to circumvent the judicial system.

    7. Re:arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Arbitration might be a good mechanism for resolving disputes, if there existed any way to ensure their impartiality.

      That's true for all dispute resolution mechanisms. In fact, courts and regulators have their own biases.

      Unsurprisingly, as of 2009 mediators found in favor of the consumer in only 4% of arbitration cases [...] As far as I see it, forced arbitration is nothing more than an attempt by greedy entities to circumvent the judicial system.

      And as I see it, many lawsuits are attempts by greedy individuals to enrich themselves at other people's expense, and as a society, we are paying heavily for that. In addition, the court system is largely not usable for anything other than large awards, because the cost of bringing a lawsuit is too high.

      Fact is that none of our current dispute resolution mechanisms work particularly well. As I was saying it's important to ensure [arbitration] is fair, and hopefully we can come up with ways of improving it. Mandating the use of a bloated, inefficient, and broken court system, as you imply, is not a reasonable solution

    8. Re:arbitration != court by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I've run across reports of instances where the company wouldn't let you drop the service, and the bank went along with them. I don't know how common that is, but the only way to find out is something I don't want to experience.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    9. Re:arbitration != court by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Saying " it's important to ensure [arbitration] is fair, " doesn't change the existing situation. I can, in principle, understand that it could, if properly done, be a superior system to the court system. But currently it's only being properly done if you're the person/group choosing the arbitrator. And that doesn't describe the customer of a corporation.

      Additionally, one could argue that the court system would be far superior if it were properly done. And that is also true. But currently the courts are less biased against the customers than are the (selected by the company) arbitrators. Even so, except for small claims court they are biased against the customer, because the corporation maintains lawyers on retainer, and the customer can't afford top quality and experienced lawyers.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    10. Re:arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      But currently the courts are less biased against the customers than are the (selected by the company) arbitrators.

      I find the current court system highly biased against me as a customer, because it favors greedy lawyers and greedy individuals enriching themselves at my expense.

      Even so, except for small claims court they are biased against the customer, because the corporation maintains lawyers on retainer, and the customer can't afford top quality and experienced lawyers.

      And that is one of many reasons why the current court system is already inferior to arbitration, even though some arbitrators may be biased.

    11. Re:arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      I've run across reports of instances where the company wouldn't let you drop the service, and the bank went along with them.

      Yes, if you sign a multi-year contract with a company, you are stuck with it (unless you declare bankruptcy). What is wrong with that?

      US companies and courts are actually exceptionally lenient in this regard compared to, say, Europe.

    12. Re:arbitration != court by Shade+Everdark · · Score: 1

      And I have difficulty seeing how you could prefer the idea of arbitration, as it exists now, to using the courts.
      Unless, of course, you already have a built-in aversion to anything involving the government.

    13. Re:arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      And I have difficulty seeing how you could prefer the idea of arbitration, as it exists now, to using the courts.

      I thought I was pretty clear about that: I find the current court system highly biased against me as a customer, because it favors greedy lawyers and greedy individuals enriching themselves at my expense.

      But let me try again more slowly.

      It is very unlikely that I'm going to sue my doctor, my phone company, or my employer. But when other people drag these institutions through the courts, their prices go up and/or their profits go down. So, I end up paying for your million dollar award over "pain and suffering" or some medical accident, much of which goes to the lawyers anyway. And I don't want to do that.

    14. Re:arbitration != court by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about a "multi-year contract"? It wasn't me, and that's not what I was talking about. The excuse was "on-going financial relationship", not a term contract. You are in danger of this whenever you allow automatic payment of a monthly bill. You can get out of it by canceling the credit card, because you don't really owe any money. But the bank just wouldn't stop paying just because you told them to, and the service wouldn't allow you to unsubscribe.

      As I said, I don't know how common this is, but it has happened.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    15. Re:arbitration != court by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      But the bank just wouldn't stop paying just because you told them to, and the service wouldn't allow you to unsubscribe.

      And you won't be able to get out of this with a lawsuit either because no lawyer is going to take such a case. The correct solution is to (1) not let companies withdraw money directly from your account, and (2) for direct credit card billing, get a new card and optionally dispute the charges. If you were foolish enough to set up direct withdrawal and people are abusing that, you need to close the account.

      Incidentally, this is a far worse problem in Europe, where there is little arbitration, but lots of companies won't even do business with you unless you allow direct withdrawal. At least in the US, few companies demand that, and most are satisfied with credit cards.

  13. Terrorists!!! by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

    We all know that only terrorists and commies wanna see what's goin' on deep in the hallowed halls of our sacred legal system!!

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  14. Re:and for good reason that I wish to be anon by dugancent · · Score: 1

    .22 rounds cost next to nothing. Why bother?

    --
    SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
  15. I was wondering how the increase in lawyers by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    graduating from schools was going to play out. As college costs crept up and profit motive took over the schools were cranking out law graduates because it's dirt cheap to make a lawyer compared to a doctor. Pretty soon we were going to have far more trained lawyers than we needed. Think of it: millions of young, well trained law school grads with $80k+ in debt and no job prospects whatsoever. They were bound to go after corporate America in a massive frenzy of class action lawsuits.

    The solution: Arbitration. Congress past a law which the SCOTUS upheld (they kinda had to, the law is pretty clear and there's nothing in the constitution to bar it). We're all forced to sign away our rights in exchange for employment and essential services. But that hasn't solved the problem of too many lawyers. I wonder what the next stop on their whirlwind tour of fun will be.

    I'm guessing they'll turn on the public at large. A buddy of mine got caught without car insurance and got in a wreck (he was paying his premiums with money orders and one of the drones at the payment processing center stole his last money order. Being already a high risk driver his insurance company took that opportunity to cancel his plan without notice). Ten years ago it would have been a loss to the insurance company. Now? A lawyer sued, one a default judgement and my buddy's screwed for the next 20-30 years. But they'll run out of easy targets like my poor shlob of a friend soon. It's gonna get real nasty real fast.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I was wondering how the increase in lawyers by Livius · · Score: 1

      a default judgement

      Um, the plaintiff has to accept some responsibility for letting that happen.

  16. Re:More of an issue for litigation that criminalit by byornski · · Score: 2

    Your reasoning for the criminal cases is basically the idea behind the EU right to be forgotten. I know it's not a popular view but I can see the logic behind it. If you've done something and served your time, why does everybody and their dog need to know that you've left prison? With that sort of system, any offender is almost enforced into a life of crime...

  17. Lawyers and the public good by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was wondering how the increase in lawyers graduating from schools was going to play out. As college costs crept up and profit motive took over the schools were cranking out law graduates because it's dirt cheap to make a lawyer compared to a doctor. Pretty soon we were going to have far more trained lawyers than we needed. Think of it: millions of young, well trained law school grads with $80k+ in debt and no job prospects whatsoever. They were bound to go after corporate America in a massive frenzy of class action lawsuits.

    And yet, with all the lawyers in the country that are under-utilized, we see nothing comparable to the "open source" movement.

    Engineers get together and create massive public value in works such as Mozilla, Apache, and LibreOffice. Lesser projects abound, free for use by anyone.

    With all the abuse we take from the government and the expense of taking something to court, you would think that some of these lawyers with spare time on their hands would take an interesting case and litigate it for cost. Not the $450/hr they charge, but just the court fees.

    The could build a portfolio of experience and reputation, something that would attract paying customers and perhaps donations from benefactors.

    I read about one (count them - one!) lawyer who set up a house with grow lamps, trying to catch the cops using thermal cameras with no probable cause.

    One lawyer did one smart setup in ten years or so.

    If the cops knew that there might be lawyer stings, but didn't know where they were or what they might be, there'd be a *lot* less abuse.

  18. Hide it now, we'll find it later by ITRambo · · Score: 2

    One thing that Snowden taught us is that government "secrets" can be exposed. They will be, in due time. The problem is that it will always be after the fact.

    1. Re:Hide it now, we'll find it later by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Governments are supposed to keep secrets. Governments are supposed to play a dangerous game where they use lies, subterfuge and violence to further the interest of it's people. The problem with the USian government is that it is using lies, subterfuge and intimidation to subjugate it's OWN people. Snowden exposed the wrong people. I am proud of the NSA and the great job it did counteracting China, N. Korea, and Russia. What Snowden should have done is expose the job the FBI was doing in arresting U.S. citizens. Why are people worried about GITMO, when we have soo many U.S. citizens incarcerated on U.S. soil. Why worry about rendition when CPS can barge into anyone’s house in the middle of the night to abduct their kids because their parents allowed them to walk to school unaccompanied.

      Snowden is a traitor, who sucks President Putin's dick every day and every night.

  19. Re:and for good reason that I wish to be anon by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    .22 rounds cost next to nothing. Why bother?

    Because they're next to impossible to find around here.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  20. Re:and for good reason that I wish to be anon by amiga3D · · Score: 1

    It's a bad sign that people are buying up and hoarding .22 rounds. It used to be nothing to go pick up 500 rounds of .22 ammo but a lot of places limit you to 200 rounds if you can even find it. The .22 is the survivalist's weapon of choice. Cheap, quiet and deadly in the right hands.

  21. Re:free tom brady by amiga3D · · Score: 1

    Of what? Not cheating in football for sure. The Pats make Hillary look honest.

  22. I think the problem is exactly opposite what you.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    do.

    The problem is information asymmetry. Rather than trying to put the genie back in the bottle of ubiquitous privacy, instead we need to shine light (via legal or extralegal methods) into the darkest recesses of public servants, ceos, silver spoons, and politicians private lives. Once nobody has anything to hide (because it is all out in the open) we will be in a better position to judge both laws and people on their merits rather than the weasel-worded ideals projected to us. Because let's face it, the good has been outweighed by the bad in more than 90 percent of law changes in the past 100 years, outside laws explicitly enshrining persecution based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc.

  23. They’ve gotten addicted to secrecy by macsimcon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Years ago, the government sought to keep sources and methods classified so they could keep using them. OK, maybe that made sense.

    But now, it’s routine for the government to deem evidence secret, or want secret access to someone’s data. We allowed private companies to gather information on everything we do, and now the government wants access to that information, ant secret access no less.

    What have they got to fear? If the government is going to investigate me for software piracy and they want my ISP’s records, where is the harm in my being made aware of that? Shouldn’t I be able to plan for my defense?

    Just as we’ve trained the police to view the citizen not as part of the community, but as the enemy, the government has taken secrecy tactics should only apply to terrorist suspects under active surveillance and used them against the populace at large.

  24. Then hold them to the same standard. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    For the privatized portions, require reasonable and nondiscriminatory (RAND) access in a manner identical to public records.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  25. Capricious? Arbitrary? Sounds like Arbitration. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Without any need for due process or impartiality, they walk all over people.

    If that's what you want, you're probably involved in that industry.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:Capricious? Arbitrary? Sounds like Arbitration. by HiThere · · Score: 2

      I don't think capricious and arbitrary mean what you think they mean. Arbitration is not capricious and arbitrary, it is heavily slanted in favor of the organizations that choose the arbitrator. That's predictable and planned, nearly the opposite of capricious and arbitrary.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  26. Requiem for the American Dream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look at the big picture. Examine what has happened to the USA over the last 40 years. Watch Requiem for the American Dream on Netflix. You will begin to realize that what has happened over this time is that the most wealthy have been stealing back the power we wrested from them over the last century. They are stealing back wealth from the middle class. They are stealing back influence over the government, the state. They are corrupting our academics. They are stealing and corrupting our culture. Call it corporate control. Name it with whatever buzzwords you want. But remember what it really is: the most wealthy are seeking total domination over the rest of us. And judging by much of the discourse on discussions like this, they have achieved some success.

    I suppose we can be consoled in that the middle class was able to wrest power from the most wealthy in the first place. We are many, and they are necessarily few. We must learn to be strong again. We must learn to free our minds, to educate ourselves about history, politics, and philosophy. Above all we must fight the pervasive cynicism that so weakens us. Cynicism is for the weak.

    1. Re:Requiem for the American Dream by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 2

      Yea, the only problem is that the political process has very effectively split the American public and has them fighting each other. It is the same strategy that has been used for thousands of years. Divide and conquer.

      The Romans did it extremely well.
      The British empire as well.
      Now the American empire is using the same tactic against its own people.

      Combine those tactics with essentially full time monitoring of all online and almost all offline activities, opinions, etc.
      Throw in some drone and satellite monitoring, and the ever increasing nascent technologies yet to come and you have the perfect police state.

      I agree about the cynicism, but really we can only change ourselves and our perceptions of the world.
      I think it was Gandhi who said “Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  27. Really Evil System by JimSadler · · Score: 2

    Arbitration should be banned completely as it is always a rigged deck. All court records should be wide open to the public at all times and conveniently and freely available. Much of the terrors that have come into play are a direct result of the right-wing budget cutting lunatics. For example, we see the VE diesel engine scandal spreading to numerous other car makers since the EPA did not have the funding top test vehicles and allowed companies to test and report how wonderfully clean their exhausts were. Now the defective air bag scandal is exploding and instead of one or two million bad air bags the US alone is looking at ninety million defective and even murderous air bags. Letting the light shine on every conversation and having everyone as well as the government wide open to scrutiny really is our only hope of creating a fair and just society. Right now we have innocent men rotting in prisons with states refusing DNA testing. We have prosecutors who have hidden evidence from the courts. We have prisons with men who are absolutely innocent beyond all doubt and the prisons refuse to release them even when instructed by the courts unless they "confess" to some lesser crime. This is done to keep innocent men from filing law-suits when released. Just how messed up can a system be before the stupid citizens are willing to confront the truth?

  28. Node Your Place. by thexfile · · Score: 1

    The internet is not your friend.
    The internet is not your children's friend.
    The internet is not your grandchildren's friend.
    The internet is not your great grandchildren's friend.
    The internet is not anybody's friend.

  29. Re:and for good reason that I wish to be anon by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    It's a bad sign that people are buying up and hoarding .22 rounds.

    I know...a friend of mine and I have been looking for months and months. Every store around is sold out all the time. It comes in and it's instantly bought up.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  30. Re:I think the problem is exactly opposite what yo by Kjella · · Score: 1

    The problem is information asymmetry. Rather than trying to put the genie back in the bottle of ubiquitous privacy, instead we need to shine light (via legal or extralegal methods) into the darkest recesses of public servants, ceos, silver spoons, and politicians private lives. Once nobody has anything to hide (because it is all out in the open) we will be in a better position to judge both laws and people on their merits rather than the weasel-worded ideals projected to us.

    And how does that work exactly, the NSA spies on everybody so everybody spies on the NSA? Any scandalized politician will just retire early from politics and get a cushy job for a lobby interest they pushed, no questions asked. Outing people just swap out the talking heads, the system stays the same. And if you think it's ever coming to some sort of reckoning and scaling back of the surveillance society it's not happening, they'll just carve out some more legal exceptions and make more privacy-invading additions for the rest of us to stop the extralegal ways. You sound like one of those Anonymous hackers with delusions of grandeur, sorry but got zero chance at exposing all the backroom deals. Zero.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  31. Re:I think the problem is exactly opposite what yo by dryeo · · Score: 1

    As Rob Ford showed, scandal doesn't even hurt some of these arseholes. Get caught smoking crack, deny, admit, ask for forgiveness, repeat, and the tough on crime right is suddenly forgiving.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  32. Re:I think the problem is exactly opposite what yo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    the good has been outweighed by the bad in more than 90 percent of law changes in the past 100 years, outside laws explicitly enshrining persecution based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc.

    You can't really make sweeping statements like that and be taken seriously without pointing to specific examples. This issue however, of court secrecy and warrantless wiretapping is, however, an indication of the desire by certain elements in the judicial branch of government for political expediency that is in one word, Unconstitutional. No amount of changes in how technology has changed the world or America can really justify having secret "Shadow Courts" that operate without the oversight of the public and the other two branches of government. Period!

    I have often worried that, if an element wanted to take over the American government and install a police state, they would do it by leaving plausible deniability that it even happened, so that when anyone tried to argue against unconstitutional actions like this, it would all get swept under the carpet in the court of public opinion and joe six pack and his family would just label anyone making that argument a communist or a terrorist or whatever the Ad-Hominem of the day is, meanwhile the court can do whatever it wants whenever it wants without oversight. This is an example of exactly what should not happen in a free society like America claims to be.

  33. Re:More of an issue for litigation that criminalit by KGIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm kind of partial to the courts being public by default. It's hard to uphold our end of the social contract, which is to observe and ensure justice is being served, if we're not privy to the proceedings, judgment, and sentencing. It is, after all, our duty to make sure that the justice being done in our name is actually just. Default to public and do what we can to ensure all possible information is public with very few exceptions. Secret courts have, historically, been bad ideas.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  34. Re: More of an issue for litigation that criminal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And when they nail you with a felony because a cop was having a bad day and you get railroaded through a secret court order, remember you can always off yourself.

  35. Slippery slope by kbg · · Score: 1

    The first steps to a totalitarian dictatorship.

  36. On the plus side by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    that's how Obama won the last two elections. When the shenanigans in Florida started ( closed polling places, understaffing, ballots not being delivered) his campaign paid for over 1000 lawyers to shut it all down. It prevented McCain and later Rhomney from stealing the election like Bush jr did.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  37. Re:and for good reason that I wish to be anon by amiga3D · · Score: 1

    So you're the one! Hoarder!

  38. Re: I think the problem is exactly opposite what y by david_thornley · · Score: 2

    Snowden revealed a lot of information about US agencies spying on US citizens. Unfortunately, he also revealed a lot of information about US agencies spying abroad, and I think that made a very bad impression on lots of people.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes