Ask Slashdot: Do You Still Use Optical Media?

Archival grade by AmiMoJo · 2016-08-26 03:22 · Score: 2, Informative

Archival grade Blu-ray is great for backups, but that's about it. I don't even bother with that any more, just encrypt and upload off site.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

Re: Archival grade by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-08-26 04:33 · Score: 1

I don't see any instance of that in AmiMoJo's comment. So, the "Uhm, what?" above applies. Uhm, what?

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re: Archival grade by GrumpySteen · 2016-08-26 04:44 · Score: 2

English is a living language, not a dead language like Latin. In living languages, the meanings of words and phrases evolves and changes over time. When almost everyone is using a particular word or phrase in a certain way, that way becomes a valid meaning.
That is what has happened with the phrase "begs the question", which means that everyone else is actually right and the pedants are wrong. In fact, the pedants who keep making this argument are actually trying to get everyone to behave as if English was a dead language in some misguided notion that they're protecting it.
So suck on that, pedant.
Re: Archival grade by jabberw0k · 2016-08-26 04:50 · Score: 3, Interesting

the pedants who keep making this argument are actually trying to get everyone to behave as if English was a dead language in some misguided notion that they're protecting it.
Contrariwise, we are trying to actively change English to be better. I will protest the use of "orientate" (should be "orient" just as "inform" not "informate" is correct) and the awkward and irritating Los Angeles-style "I was on the 10" instead of the better "I was on I-10" (or Route 10, or Highway 10, or Interstate 10) for the same reason: if English is a living language, we can improve it just as much as we can dumb it down.
Re: Archival grade by JackieBrown · 2016-08-26 05:00 · Score: 1

If you have read any political or social posts by AmiMoJo, you would know there is no possibility of him supporting Trump.
Frankly, I'd be surprise if he didn't find Hillary "too conservative" as well but feels she is the lesser of two evils.
Re: Archival grade by sexconker · 2016-08-26 05:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

Not all change is good. Much of the change we see is harmful to the language as it introduces ambiguity and causes confusion, which makes it harder for the language to do its only job - help people communicate.
Languages are highly ordered systems. Retards like you are "literally" running about spouting off about doing things "ironically" and are, "for all intensive purposes", entropy endangering the system "irregardless" of your dumbass "language changes" excuse.
Re: Archival grade by sexconker · 2016-08-26 05:26 · Score: 2

They're not using the official name of the interstate or highway. It's a simple abbreviation and rarely has ambiguity. It's no different from shortening the name of a street from "21st street" to "21st".
I'd find saying "interstate 10" or "highway 101" every time more awkward and irritating. But this is a "soda" vs. "pop" debate. Until you can't tell what "the 605 North" means because there's some other highway/freeway/etc. with a conflicting name in the same vicinity it's not incorrect. (Further, it's officially named the "San Gabriel River Freeway", not Interstate 605.)
Re: Archival grade by AmiMoJo · 2016-08-26 05:29 · Score: 1

You know me well it seems. Pretty much all US politics is too conservative, although I haven't really looked at what the Greens are offering. By European standards the main parties are far right extremists and strongly conservative for the GOP and Dems respectively.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re: Archival grade by Topwiz · 2016-08-26 05:33 · Score: 1

It does NOT "beg the question" because the post actually says "Which brings up the question".
Re: Archival grade by undefinedreference · 2016-08-26 05:37 · Score: 2

The Los Angeles style is better with lower overhead than other forms. It flows in communication and doesn't add excessive irrelevant information. Considering they operate primarily in their metro area, it works very well. Nobody cares what type of road it is because it is irrelevant. If you want a truly bad system, drop "the" entirely. That's how they do it in San Francisco and a number of areas they have influenced. The negative effects are severe.
I have to disagree on "orient", as it overloads a word that is used as a noun or adjective. "Orientate" is a verb. All words based on it are as well. I believe people on this site primarily speak AmE and the term comes from BrE, which is probably why you are so confused by and resistant to it.
Re: Archival grade by Coren22 · 2016-08-26 06:01 · Score: 2

I get literally pissed off when people do that.
Sorry, I just had to do it.

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APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Re: Archival grade by Immerman · 2016-08-26 06:19 · Score: 1, Interesting

I assume you don't realize that "begs the question" actually originated as a mistranslation of a latin phrase better translated as "assuming the premise" - as such, the original usage is clearly flawed, and the modern usage actually better reflects the literal meaning of the words. In fighting against it, you're actually fighting to preserve a 400 year old language-butchering error.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Re: Archival grade by Kindaian · 2016-08-26 06:59 · Score: 1

English has way worse problems, like not be phonetical.
Leicester (spelling) = lester (phonetic)
Where did the "ice" gone?
Probably one of the worse cases, but there are plenty!
Re: Archival grade by c0d3g33k · 2016-08-26 07:03 · Score: 1

Bravo. Your post is "post of the day" for me. Well said.
Re: Archival grade by GrumpySteen · 2016-08-26 07:09 · Score: 1

Adding the obvious interpretation to the meaning of the phrase 'beg the question' is hardly going to introduce ambiguity. In point of fact, the large number of people who 'mis-use' the phrase demonstrates that the real meaning is the ambiguous one.
Re: Archival grade by GrumpySteen · 2016-08-26 07:53 · Score: 1

No, all you really did was demonstrate that you're a dumbass. I never used the phrase incorrectly in any of my posts.
Re: Archival grade by Quirkz · 2016-08-26 08:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

Language drifting doesn't bother me much in general. However, I would prefer to take a stand in cases where the drift would cause the language to lose functionality. In this case, "begs the question" is a short an easy way to convey a particular concept that doesn't have other analogues, whereas there's lots of other ways to say "it poses the question" or "it brings up the question". Given the choice between losing a useful phrase or telling people to learn their language right, I pick user instruction.

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The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Re: Archival grade by Blaskowicz · 2016-08-26 08:39 · Score: 1

English-speaking people are "literally" using the wrong word, too. It should be "litterally" with two 't' as in "letter". (and litterature if we go the same way). When you're "litterally" doing something, you're following the meaning to the letter. English language most likely changed the spelling due to conflict with "litter" as lightweight garbage or other meanings.
Re: Archival grade by ncc74656 · 2016-08-26 09:53 · Score: 1

Leicester (spelling) = lester (phonetic)

That applies to all of the *cesters (there are more than a few...used to live not too far from Bicester, for instance), so at least they're consistent.
You want weird? Try to puzzle through how they say Derby should be pronounced "darby." I don't see an A anywhere in there.

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20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Re: Archival grade by AK+Marc · 2016-08-26 19:45 · Score: 2

In Dallas, "the turnpike", "central" and "the tollway" all refer to separate sections of road independently. They are based on current or past "common" names of sections of road. None are "proper". All are unambiguous.

In part, the informal terms are more proper. They convey not only unambiguous meaning about the subject, but also convey information about the speaker. "I went west on Interstate 30, Tom Landry Freeway" that would reveal the speaker to be a non-native of the area. The Turnpike stopped being a turnpike in '78, but that was the common name, and has continued to be used as such by locals.

Language isn't solely to convey a thought, but to communicate about those involved in the conversation. And for that, inexact language is best. When there are a million ways to say something, the way you pick says something about you.

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Learn to love Alaska
Re: Archival grade by madenglishbloke · 2016-08-27 02:18 · Score: 1

Pfft. How should Loughborough be pronounced? Chances are, you're wrong. Try Lufbra...
Re: Archival grade by 2-bit+Joe · 2016-08-27 12:44 · Score: 1

Sounds like a mute point, if you ask me.
Re: Archival grade by SuprabhatH · 2016-08-27 16:57 · Score: 1

Stopped using but now a days Blu Ray and PD's are best and I use them for creating backups.

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Best Shampoo For Hair loss in 2016
Re: Archival grade by RatchetDriver · 2016-08-28 07:45 · Score: 1

I think you mean "for all intents and purposes".
I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. If you are going to attempt sarcasm, please do so in a manner which shows you understand the terms you are using in order to be sarcastic.

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Nothing to see here. Move along.
Re: Archival grade by unitron · 2016-08-31 22:20 · Score: 1

Orient was used a a verb long before orientate came along.
http://www.grammarphobia.com/b...
Frankly, orientate sounds like someone was trying to make themselves sound more educated and important than they were.
Sort of like what's happened to the language used by police departments at press conferences over the last 4 or 5 decades.
I've got no problem with the Los Angeles colloquial highway naming style, though. Some things should have regional flavor.

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I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Re: Archival grade by unitron · 2016-08-31 22:22 · Score: 1

If you were in Chicago, would you say you were on the Dan Ryan or that you were on Dan Ryan?

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I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by alternative_right · 2016-08-26 03:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

I still keep optical drives on all of my machines. Not only do I need to rip CDs on occasion, but I like the durability of optical media. It can be filed away just about anywhere, resists moisture and static, and is a great cheap way to pass information on to others. I wish the recycling options were better.

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Alternative Right.

Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by TWX · 2016-08-26 03:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

I like the fact that once I have my CDs and DVDs they can't take-back the rights when I have physical media, and I don't have to worry about losing my media when I have a hard disk failure.

In practice this is also true for Blu-Ray. If I remember what I read back when the Blu-ray standard was first released there was apparently a mechanism to invalidate Blu-ray discs, but I don't think it's been applied in-practice and you'd have to have a network-connected player that the vendor is still providing updates to for that to happen anyway.

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Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by TheGratefulNet · 2016-08-26 03:32 · Score: 5, Informative

I'm no BD expert but I was under the impression that a 'kill list' can be present in media and there is no need to have a network connection to have things be invalidated (media and even equip!). simply by PLAYING a disc, you run the risk of having things that worked yesterday, not work today.
I never bought a bd player by choice (one came with a laptop I had no choice in) and I won't support that standard. its evil to to the corp (SIC intended).

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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by caseih · 2016-08-26 03:40 · Score: 2, Informative

Except that optical media isn't that durable or reliable. Every DVD or CD I've ever burned has become unreadable after a few years. The inks just don't hold the data for long. Pressed disks last a lot longer of course, but there are many documented cases of the aluminum layer of CDs being damaged.
And it's no longer a great or cheap way to pass information to others since fewer and fewer computers come with optical drives these days.
If you're going to use optical media as archival storage or backup, you'll want to copy the data to fresh media on a regular basis (every few years at least). Of course the same goes for any form of data storage these days.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 03:46 · Score: 4, Informative

I can verify this was true for PS3 a few years ago. An inserted BD often requested to update the firmware because I never went online with that console. If I refused to to the upgrade, the PS3 refused to play the movie on the BD.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by OtisSnerd · 2016-08-26 03:50 · Score: 5, Informative

I have collected almost a thousand audio CDs over the past 25 years, and used to think the same thing. They served as masters for the digital copies I keep on my PC. Now I've discovered that a few of them are suffering from visible bit-rot, with the aluminum layer slowly being eaten / corroded in from the edge. It could be because I lived in a heavy urban area (Philly near I95) with lots of diesel exhaust until last year, but I've also taken very good care of them, keeping them in their cases and minimizing handling, but who knows how much longer they'll last.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by perpenso · 2016-08-26 03:55 · Score: 1

Aging is not much of a problem. Just move the important stuff from CD-R to DVD-R, to BD-R, etc as times goes on and you get new media.

For example the first backup on DVD-R starts with the last CD-R and adds newer stuff, the first backup on BD-R begins with the last DVD-R and adds newer stuff. Of course I'm not referring to complete system backups, rather backups of source code hierarchies, document hierarchies, etc. Music, videos, photos hierarchies not included; they are better backed up to external USB hard drives.

That said, I'd also backup to USB memory sticks and SD cards for redundancy.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by Gr8Apes · 2016-08-26 03:57 · Score: 1

Then you've used cheap media. I have disks burned in 2001 that are still readable. I have a couple of pressed disks from the 1980s that are no longer readable due to bit rot, but many many others that are just fine still today.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by dugancent · 2016-08-26 04:01 · Score: 1

Can't speak for more recent stuff, but I just pulled some data from a couple DVDs that I burned in June of 2014. No problems.

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SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by pecosdave · 2016-08-26 04:14 · Score: 1

Unless it came from Warner Brothers.
Then it has bit-rot even if it looks pristine on the surface and if you email that about it they don't give you the courtesy of a fuck-you.

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Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by ColdWetDog · 2016-08-26 04:29 · Score: 1

You've just discovered the DRM worm. A real one.
Looks like you'll be buying the White Album again.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by TheDarkMaster · 2016-08-26 04:42 · Score: 2

Stop using shitty and cheap media. I have CDs from 2000 still working, properly stored in individual boxes and inside a environment protected from light and heat (backup CDs).

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Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 04:46 · Score: 1

Now I've discovered that a few of them are suffering from visible bit-rot, with the aluminum layer slowly being eaten / corroded in from the edge.
Yes.

It could be because I lived in a heavy urban area (Philly near I95) with lots of diesel exhaust until last year
No.
For consumer purposes, "Archival" grade optical media is the same sack of bullshit sold by hard drive pundits under the guise of MTBF. It doesn't matter if MTBF is nine bajillion years with 0.0002% of units failing six weeks after initial use when you don't need a semi to haul your media around. One bad batch - and there are bad batches aplenty - and you're fucked.
s'why I moved everything to ZFS. Haven't had a single corrupt file in a decade, despite a few occasions where hard drives tried to give me what for. And should the worst happen?
C'mon, for stuff like label-produced music, it isn't that hard to find again. It's my personal photographs and such that concern me in that case, and that's what offsite backups are for. S3's dirt cheap, hey?
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by jofas · 2016-08-26 04:49 · Score: 1

2014? How is that a measure for reliability? Also, how does 2 years count as "archiving"? Go back before 2006 and tell me how your backups are faring.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by jofas · 2016-08-26 04:52 · Score: 1

When was the last time you heard of an enterprise (or anyone serious about data, for that matter,) routinely storing on optical disc? Never. That's because the format is a nightmare to manage. And the that term "can be very reliable" doesn't cut it when you have IT directors screaming about recovering from backup.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by deadwill69 · 2016-08-26 05:15 · Score: 2

I have disks that old myself. To slow this process, I pull them out every few years and get a baby diaper and some pledge. Does wonders on cleaning them up and giving them a lite protective coating. I haven't had a problem re-ripping anything I've pulled out yet, but I know those days are numbered.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 05:25 · Score: 1

CDs have their aluminum layer deposited directly on top of the polycarbonate, which is then covered only by a very thin lacquer sealant. Even on manufactured CDs, the lacquer can be rubbed, scratched, or flake off and that allows the aluminum to oxidize.
DVD and Blu-ray sandwich the aluminum layer between two polycarbonate layers, and are only sealed on the edge of the disc instead of the entire top surface, so pressed DVDs and Blu-rays are much less susceptible to this kind of bit rot.
Another type of bit rot only applies to -R / -RW variants and is caused by fading of the burned dye layer which lowers the contrast between 1s and 0s and makes the bits harder to distinguish over time.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by dugancent · 2016-08-26 05:26 · Score: 1

Whoops, I mean't 2004.

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SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by Yvan256 · 2016-08-26 05:29 · Score: 1

How does 10 years count as "archiving"? Go back to 1916 and tell me how your backups are faring.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by sexconker · 2016-08-26 05:29 · Score: 1

I'm not aware of any published title being blacklisted. All I'm aware of is these updates being required to patch security holes and blacklist the previous version of Power DVD every week.
Re: Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by dugancent · 2016-08-26 05:32 · Score: 1

What OS can't read natively from a disc from any year? Some older OSs might not be able to read the newer UDF formats, but they can all read the previous versions.

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SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by sexconker · 2016-08-26 05:32 · Score: 2

Didn't we have a story last year about Facebook storing your old photos on Blu-Rays with some automated jukebox system?
The idea was that no one looks at old photos, so it doesn't matter if it takes a short time for a little robot arm to retrieve a disc and and load em up when your best friend from high school dies and you decide to take a depressed stroll through memory lane.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by AmiMoJo · 2016-08-26 05:33 · Score: 2

The way it works is that they can generate millions of device keys. Every playback device must have a device key, and must then execute a Java app on the disc that, among other things, validates that key. They have the ability to revoke keys by including a list of revoked ones on the disc.
So in practice old discs will still play, but new ones might refuse to play until your firmware is upgraded or just at all. Previously keys for cracked software players like PowerDVD have been revoked, with users provided with a free upgrade to the software.
I think they have largely abandoned the idea now, as BluRay is completely cracked anyway and the master keys were found many years ago.
I have a USB DVD-RW, but no BluRay drive.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by caseih · 2016-08-26 05:39 · Score: 1

I used reliable brands at the time. Sony, TDK, etc. All of them fade over time.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by mlts · 2016-08-26 06:08 · Score: 2

I have a stack of CD-Rs I burned back in 1996 which are still readable, and I pulled a file for a MMO from some CDs I made back in 2000. The info is obsolete, but it is still present on the media. The trick back then was to run Linux and cdrecord, with as few items running in the background as possible, just to ensure there would be no buffer underruns since there wasn't any protection against that back then.
I would say it really depends on the media for archival life. Some optical media is junk, other media will last for a very long time.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by naughtynaughty · 2016-08-26 06:34 · Score: 1

I'll let you know in 2116 how my backups are doing, oh wait, I won't care whether or not I can still restore my backup of my 2016 laptop.
I'm sure we'll do exactly what we've done in the past. Take our grandparents collection of photographs, slides and Super-8 movies and move them to new media. Maybe it was to floppies, then CDs, then DVDs, then flash drives, then cloud storage, but most people aren't looking for a single media that will last 100 years. The entirety of my grand-parent's large collection of photographs, slides and Super-8 movies all fits in a 2.5" USB drive after being digitized. I don't care if they didn't use archival photography paper that lasts 100 years, the cheap Osco Drug prints lasted long enough to make it to the next generation of media.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by c0d3g33k · 2016-08-26 07:08 · Score: 2

I have music disks that I purchased in the mid 80's near the dawn of the CD era that still play fine. I buy used CDs from Goodwill that aren't quite that old, but I've yet to find one that doesn't play due to deterioration. Same with the public library. The only thing that seems to affect playability is scratches or actual damage to the data layer.
I'd call that pretty durable.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by The+Grim+Reefer · 2016-08-26 09:09 · Score: 1

I used reliable brands at the time. Sony, TDK, etc. All of them fade over time.
Memorex and TDK were terrible for longevity, though both had good names years ago. I can't say I ever used Sony though. But there are/were a lot of really bad brands. I have Verbatim CD's that are over 20 years old now and are still fine. I also have Verbatim DVDs that are well over 10 years old that are readable. Which brand media you use makes a big difference. Most Memorex and TDK DVD disks I've burned had errors within a year and I don't think any made it longer than three.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by aix+tom · 2016-08-26 09:28 · Score: 1

That about is my experience.
I have about 1000 burned DVDs that I use somewhat regularity, and about 100 burned BluRays now. Since about 2002 I have encountered exactly *two* discs I couldn't read any more. One got scratched badly when it somehow got loose from the sleeve in my satchel, the other fell onto a tile floor and a corner broke off.
For security I usually make two copies of "important" stuff, and I also fill the media only to about 75%, and fill the rest up with error correction data created by http://dvdisaster.net/en/index..., so that in the event that I one day actually DO run into a bit rot issue, I might still be able to re-construct the data.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by ncc74656 · 2016-08-26 10:20 · Score: 1

Except that optical media isn't that durable or reliable. Every DVD or CD I've ever burned has become unreadable after a few years. The inks just don't hold the data for long.

HTL BD-R uses an inorganic phase-change alloy sputtered onto the disc surface. I have media files going back 4 years or so backed up to a bunch of Blu-rays at work, and they've mostly held up pretty well. I recently scanned all of them to see how they were holding up, and out of 300+ discs, 5 had some unreadable areas. They would've been recoverable because I augmented the images before burning with dvdisaster, but it was faster to just mark their contents as not backed up and let them get burned to a newer disc.
LTH BD-R, OTOH, uses the same organic dyes as CD-R and DVD-R, and is just as susceptible to bit rot (though in all honesty, I have plenty of DVD-Rs and CD-Rs kicking around that are still readable.)
Most BD-Rs on the market are HTL. They tend not to be marked as such, but LTH media are. Verbatim seems to be the most prominent of the LTH BD-R brands, though I think I've heard that Taiyo Yuden also produces LTH BD-R. dvdisaster identifies my backup set as a mix of Ritek, Philips, and CMC Magnetics media; they carried a variety of other brands on them (some well-known, some not so much).
If you're not set up for Blu-ray, M-Disc has applied its inorganic recording layer (they describe it as a "rock-like carbon compound") to DVD as well as Blu-ray. You need a drive that can burn them (not just any DVD burner will work), so if you're in the market for a compatible burner, you might as well get one that also handles Blu-ray. Wikipedia says the discs, once burned, are readable in any drive.

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20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by Bite+The+Pillow · 2016-08-26 16:27 · Score: 1

I rip to flac, generate 15% par2 redundancy, and burn to 2 DVDs. Test yearly or so, and any suspect discs get copied to disc and restored. Any differences might get investigated, if it happened. But it doesn't.
I give shit away just so I can burn another copy. That's what DRM did, it made me ensure my data is good by giving it away so I can make a new original.
Digital rights means if I bought it, I don't buy it again. Digital Restrictions means I avoid any loss. Not lost one yet, but I keep after it to make sure.
And yes I have shitpiles of DivX from way back, and installers on cd. If things go tits up, I can restore quake and peggle.
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by Reziac · 2016-08-27 04:31 · Score: 1

Commercial disks are pretty durable, as you say (unless exposed to weather, then they fall apart fairly quick). The only commercial disk I've seen fail were bad out of the box. But burnables, not so much. Mine have done well (my oldest ones are still readable) but I lived in the desert. Dampness and CDRs do not play well together, as they're not completely sealed around the edges, so I'm not surprised by tales of woe.
I still use CDRs and DVDRs for sneakernet to the DOS machine that doesn't speak network or USB, and occasionally for a specific type of backup (movie or album) but no longer routinely use them for system backup. I can get a whole stack of DVDs on a single 128GB flash drive (not to mention backup is much faster and needs far less babysitting), and per the torture tests I've read about, flash drives beat everything else for durability (retaining data through all manner of abuse; one even partially survived being shot).
And until recently I was still using them for live CDs for testing OS distros, but along came that bootable-flash-drive app and now I have 40+ distros on a single flash stick, plus a place to save files convenient to whatever I'm testing.
I never did acquire a Blu-Ray, tho I suppose now that prices have gotten sane I'll pick one up just so I have it if I need one. Which might be never at the present rate (I don't buy BR movies, so what is it good for? burned BR are reputed very unreliable, failing in as little as six months.)

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~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Re:Yes, Because Optical Media Is Durable by cheesybagel · 2016-08-27 19:07 · Score: 1

Don't store the disks in a place where they get exposed to light.
I have some disks which have lasted a decade so far. If the media is of decent quality it can last. Other media went bad in a year.

No by myowntrueself · 2016-08-26 03:23 · Score: 1

I can't remember the last time I used a CD or DVD. Never used Bluray.

Oh wait, no. I can remember the last time I tried to use a CD; it was the install media for some software that I'd purchased a few years ago. I couldn't install it, the CD had developed a defect. I'm not sure that counts as 'The last time I USED optical media' because I didn't actually get to USE it.

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In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.

Re:No by Mr+D+from+63 · 2016-08-26 03:32 · Score: 1

I have a few CDs burned with MP3s in my travel bag, which I find useful in rental cars that don't have a USB media input. Most will play data discs. Other than that, my blank DVDs and CDs have been collecting dust for years.
Re:No by freeze128 · 2016-08-26 04:17 · Score: 1

Of course I still use optical media. Where else would I store all the images of my floppy disks?
Re:No by JaredOfEuropa · 2016-08-26 04:38 · Score: 2

Got a bunch of Blurays but never played them, in fact most are still in the wrapper. I only get them because legal digital download-to-own doesn't exist (not really). So I "steal" movies via torrent and buy the Blurays as a license for the ones I want to keep. Everything is played from a NAS, music as well, haven't bothered with CDs in ages.

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If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:No by LinuxIsGarbage · 2016-08-26 07:36 · Score: 1

Shame that they never put a DVD drive in these cars. Instead of a 700MB MP3-CD, you could have a 4.7GB MP3-DVD.
Re:No by netham45 · 2016-08-26 07:50 · Score: 1

So I "steal" movies via torrent and buy the Blurays as a license for the ones I want to keep.

Suuuuure you do.
Re:No by JaredOfEuropa · 2016-08-26 20:35 · Score: 1

It doesn't. Here in the Netherlands, downloading was actually legal until recently, regardless of where the download was from. Uploading of copyrighted material always has been punishable. Meaning that using Torrent to get these movies is illegal whether you already own a copy or not, since you're "helping piracy".

Which is true in a way. I see that as a hearty FU to the media companies for their customer-hating tactics in hopes they will change their ways. That's how far my ethics go. That, by the way, was also the policy of Dutch lawmakers for a good while: their stance was to not make downloading illegal, or to decline to prosecute downloads of any content that isn't reasonably available for download from a legal source. (reasonably meaning: released in a timely manner, priced at or below the physical medium, allowing time shifting and offline playback). Sadly they dropped that stance and kowtow to the "intellectual property" camp.

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If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:No by bjhavard · 2016-08-26 21:49 · Score: 1

I bought & installed an after market JVC unit that does just that. They did exist but were pretty rare.
Re:No by LinuxIsGarbage · 2016-08-26 23:38 · Score: 1

I just use the OEM system in my car. It doesn't have Bluetooth or USB, but it does have Aux-in. However it's a pain every time you get in the car to set up the phone, so I have a couple MP3-CD-RWs. It's also interesting how hard it is to source CD-RWs these days. The ones I got off Amazon were new-old stock, and I had to do a full wipe of them before writing data to them.
The -RWs are good because I've had to rewrite them a couple times. For example ImgBurn defaults to ISO9660+UDF, so the car was showing 8.3 file names, so I rewrote it as Joilet and all was good. I was also going to start doing more Podcasts for long drives, so it would be good to reuse discs.

No but I'm optimistic by Jon+Peterson · 2016-08-26 03:24 · Score: 1

I still get round to ripping old DVDs, and very very occasionally old CDs, that I pick up in second hand shops. I've not loaded a data CD for years.

I'd be loath to get rid of my optical drive from my hulking great tower PC though. Partly because I have some old backup media that I want to be able to read again one day. (Yes I know I could move it to disk / cloud / whatever and that the CDs are probably degraded already).

But mainly, a bit like getting hand written letters, I'm sort of hoping for the day I get to open a nice jewel case, pop the unscratched new disk in, and wait in anticipation while it spins up. Nostalgia.

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Re:No but I'm optimistic by Darinbob · 2016-08-26 08:41 · Score: 1

I'd trust bit rot on disks over having data in the cloud. For a backup have it on solid state media, and have more than one copy.

Getting There by hipp5 · 2016-08-26 03:24 · Score: 1

All of our computers at work (six of them, small office) are optical media free. We do have a USB DVD drive for the once-every-few-months we need to read or burn optical media. At home I have a DVD drive, but only because my computer is 5+ years old. If I was building a new computer for home use now I'd leave it out.

Re:Getting There by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-08-26 03:47 · Score: 1

My junk box still has a USB floppy drive but no floppy disks. I haven't had a floppy drive installed in a system for ten years.
Re:Getting There by bigman2003 · 2016-08-26 04:04 · Score: 1

I have two optical media readers in my world.
#1- computer at work has a reader. I don't know if it works, I've never used it...computer is 3 years old.
#2- my Xbox 360 has a reader. About 4 years ago one of my kids broke it, and it has caused me zero inconvenience since then. Occasionally I will get new games, but it is always a download.
The last time I thought about optical media was when my mom came to visit. She wanted to show me some pictures, or a movie, or something and she held up a DVD like it was a prize. "Where is your DVD player?" I was very happy to tell her that I didn't have one.
DVDs had a very short lifespan in my world. Probably the shortest of all media, other than those small Sony...Minidiscs? I had one of those players that I thought was awesome, for like two months.

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No reason to lie.
Re:Getting There by gfxguy · 2016-08-26 04:40 · Score: 1

I recently bought a new laptop and was surprised it came with an optical drive. It wasn't on the list of things I was looking for - but I also have an external drive for just such an occasion anyway. The much more expensive laptop I got at work didn't have one, but that's because the whole point was to go small with that purchase.

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Stupid sexy Flanders.

yes, everyday... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 03:25 · Score: 1

... as coasters

Red Box is Cheap by WheezyJoe · 2016-08-26 03:26 · Score: 2

Cheapest way to rent a movie that I know of, even considering online options.

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Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...

Re:Red Box is Cheap by idontusenumbers · 2016-08-26 04:09 · Score: 1

I agree; shockingly the 'manufacture, stock, and distribute physical plastic disks' is still the cheapest option over the 'basically free digital distribution'. For renting many movies a month, Netflix is even cheaper.
Re:Red Box is Cheap by jader3rd · 2016-08-26 04:14 · Score: 1

A few years back some of my wife's friends were coming over and she told me to go to the store to get a Redbox DVD. I said no, we'll just stream the movie from Vudu. She said that Redbox was cheaper. I rebutted with the fact that the difference between streaming and Redbox was not worth my time to go to the store, stand in a queue, get the DVD, and then repeat the next day.
There have been enough times when I've gone into a store, seen a queue of people standing at the Redbox, I make my purchases, and the same queue of people are standing at the Redbox when I leave; that I'm pretty sure that Redbox will never be worth my time.
Re:Red Box is Cheap by WheezyJoe · 2016-08-26 04:26 · Score: 1

True. It gets annoying when there's a queue browsing and looking puzzled at the machine. They haven't learned that that you reserve in advance, online (sigh, get with it people, there's an app on your phone). With practice, if you're lucky to be in an area with lots of these machines, you learn which ones don't draw the crowd of impulse renters, and you can quickly be on your way. And if you're on the road anyway to pick up some chips or a pizza, it's not a thing.
There's bound to be a day when online catches up price-wise... has to. But for some reason, it ain't here yet.

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Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
Re:Red Box is Cheap by Grishnakh · 2016-08-26 05:17 · Score: 1

It's one of many, many examples where the cost of getting the product to customers is not really related to the price of the product. With online viewing of more current movies (Neflix doesn't usually have Redbox's movies available on instant-play), you're really paying extra for the convenience, and they price it that way. People who can afford high-speed internet can afford to pay more for watching movies online, so that's how they're charged. People who use Redbox are usually in a lower socioeconomic stratus (hence you usually see Redboxes at Walmart), so prices are lower there.
Re: Red Box is Cheap by idontusenumbers · 2016-08-26 05:26 · Score: 1

If Netflix online has the movies you want to see, it's probably the cheapest option, even with internet access accounted for; although its selection is much worse than Redbox or Netflix disc
Re: Red Box is Cheap by Grishnakh · 2016-08-26 10:05 · Score: 1

Yeah, I addressed that: Netflix instant-play doesn't carry the stuff Redbox does; Redbox stuff is fairly recent releases, whereas Netflix's instant-play stuff is usually older stuff and TV shows. Netflix disc is certainly cheaper than Redbox if you watch at least 5 or so movies a month, but it's not as convenient if you want to be able to grab something and watch it that night. The other online stuff is what competes with Redbox: newer releases, and you can select it and watch it immediately. But it's a lot more expensive, and you're really paying for that convenience.

We burn a ton of DVD's every week by gurps_npc · 2016-08-26 03:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

I work for a law firm. We need to send data out all the time. When possible we FTP it. But for many jobs we need permanent record, so we use a mix of DVD's and hard drives.

For large jobs, we use Hard Drives. Anything less than 10 GB, we burn DVDs. We do it all the time.

Also, while I don't buy laptops or tablets with DVD players, I insist on every Desktop computer I buy to have one.

I will do so just for the ability to play my old movies and TV shows.

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excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com

Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by freeze128 · 2016-08-26 04:14 · Score: 5, Funny

Yeah, but that's a LAW FIRM. You also use FAX on a daily basis.
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 04:49 · Score: 1

"Operator, get me KLondike 5-3226!"
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by jofas · 2016-08-26 05:11 · Score: 1

I don't particularly understand what makes a DVD more secure than a USB for the source boot media for a live distro... They both load into RAM and can both access unencrypted local mounts.
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by jofas · 2016-08-26 06:27 · Score: 1

Are you pentesting malicious apps or a compromised system or something? Or setting up a public kiosk? Boot media is almost always mounted RO in live distros. And if you're worried about someone writing in malicious or erronous code on the media and sabotaging your kiosk, you've forgotten the first rule of IT security: physical access means root access. If you don't know the source of your ISO, burning to a DVD won't help. If you're pentesting or scanning compromised systems with kali or something like that and you're NOT using a fresh image each time, I hope you're not getting a lot of work. So again, what makes DVDs so much more "secure"?
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by DRJlaw · 2016-08-26 07:51 · Score: 2

For whatever reason, faxes are considered legal paperwork while email is not... even if the fax was sent over IP anyway.
It has nothing to do with whether something is considered "legal paperwork" or not. An email can form a written contract (or be a written communication) as assuredly as a couriered piece of paper or a facsimile.
Fax machines provide delivery confirmation (your fax machine reports whether the entire facsimile was received by the machine at the telephone number that it dialed). You know where it went, and you know that the entire thing got there.
Email, at least historically, hit the Pachinko machine of SMTP relay servers. You knew where it was supposed to go, but you had no idea whether it got there (Do you send read receipts every time someone requests one? REALLY?). These days, it's less Pachinko machine and more Pin the Tail on the Donkey. You know where it's supposed to go, but you have no idea whether it got eaten by the external spam service, the firewall, the internal spam filter, the email client spam filter, or Uncle Horace's all purpose AI email sorter.
The courts have (almost all) converted to electronic filing and docket systems, so no, there's no electronic exception what's considered legal paperwork. If you want to serve someone with a pleading or motion in a case, you can even do it by email, if they've agreed to accept service by email (and thus agreed to be responsible for any screw up in the external spam service, the firewall, the internal spam filter, the email client spam filter, or Uncle Horace's all purpose AI email sorter).
It's all about achieving a level of assurance that "they got it."
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by Zordak · 2016-08-26 08:43 · Score: 1

One of the tricks in production of litigation documents is to produce them in the least convenient form that conforms to the rules. So if the opposing side requests a bunch of e-mails and Word documents, and they don't have the foresight to request them in native format with metadata intact (or the rules don't require you to send them that way), you send them a stack of CDs full of TIFFs. There are even programs that will load up all the documents for review by the baby attorneys* and then convert them all to TIFFs for production. And when the other side sends you a bunch of TIFFs on CDs, it will load those all up, OCR them, and tag them with keywords. This is in part why production is so ridiculously expensive. (The other reason is that the attorneys will spend half a million dollars filing motions and counter-motions fighting over the search terms to use on document and e-mail searches.) (This is why attorneys always win lawsuits, as long as the client is solvent. Occasionally, one of the clients wins too.)
*If you retain a big law firm, they will still bill you $300/hr. for the baby attorney to sit in front of his computer all day, flipping through documents looking for stuff that should be tagged as "hot" or "damaging" or whatever before they go out. Then when the opposing side sends their production, baby attorney sits and reviews all of those too. The whole time, baby attorney is thinking, "I got seven years of post-secondary education for THIS?" But he'll do it, because the partner told him to, and they're paying him a salary of $160,000 plus bonuses that depend on billable hours, and as mind-numbingly boring as it is, it is the easiest way on earth to rack up billable hours, and he still has $200,000 in student loans to pay off.

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Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by eionmac · 2016-08-26 10:24 · Score: 1

We are as an engineering file contractually obliged to send out all documentation in 3 forms; (1) ready use by email as PDF or raw drawing/document; (2) Final documentation as DVD (multiple copies to different addresses of all documents) and correspondence during contract; (3) One hard copy of all documents in "2".
These form in 3 and one of the 2 copies the necessary 40 year expected life resource for any death or injury requirement and subsequent legal inquiry. (Our plant makes/ handles some very nasty chemicals, and safety back ups of all documentation go to insurers , classification authorities and at least one legal copy to our own and customers archives.
We go through a lot of DVDs.
Reason for DVDs , not alterable after burning. Reasonable shelf life. However do keep one of two external and internal DVD readers/ burners on the computers.
Hard drives (electro-mechanical) are not as resilient to a start up after long term idle storage (bearings1).

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Regards Eion MacDonald
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by gordguide · 2016-08-26 21:05 · Score: 1

For whatever reason, faxes are considered legal paperwork while email is not... even if the fax was sent over IP anyway.
It has nothing to do with whether something is considered "legal paperwork" or not. An email can form a written contract (or be a written communication) as assuredly as a couriered piece of paper or a facsimile.
Fax machines provide delivery confirmation (your fax machine reports whether the entire facsimile was received by the machine at the telephone number that it dialed). You know where it went, and you know that the entire thing got there.
Email, at least historically, hit the Pachinko machine of SMTP relay servers. You knew where it was supposed to go, but you had no idea whether it got there (Do you send read receipts every time someone requests one? REALLY?). These days, it's less Pachinko machine and more Pin the Tail on the Donkey. You know where it's supposed to go, but you have no idea whether it got eaten by the external spam service, the firewall, the internal spam filter, the email client spam filter, or Uncle Horace's all purpose AI email sorter.
The courts have (almost all) converted to electronic filing and docket systems, so no, there's no electronic exception what's considered legal paperwork. If you want to serve someone with a pleading or motion in a case, you can even do it by email, if they've agreed to accept service by email (and thus agreed to be responsible for any screw up in the external spam service, the firewall, the internal spam filter, the email client spam filter, or Uncle Horace's all purpose AI email sorter).
It's all about achieving a level of assurance that "they got it."

In Canada, all evidence must be submitted in both print form (paper) and in electronic format. Original Facsimile ("fax") documents must be printed and submitted in an electronic format. eMails and their attachments must be printed and submitted in an electronic format.

*** All electronic format submissions must be on CD/DVD-ROM. ***

The exceptions are motions before the Court, which must be filed in print format by hand delivery, mail, or courier. In the case of motions, an electronic format copy (on CD/DVD-ROM only) is optional. "Motions before the Court" consist of original motions, supporting documents, and responses.

Documents submitted on CD/DVD-ROM must be in pdf format or "when permitted by the rules" in an attachment to an eMail.

Text must be scanned @ 300 dpi and must not be in grayscale, must be OCR'ed and must be searchable, and may not exceed 75 Megabytes. eMail attachments must not exceed 10 MB.

Hyperlinks to websites are allowed, but the entire hyperlink must also be included in printed and electronic documentation. Hyperlinks within the document are allowed. Hyperlinks between documents are prohibited.

Confidential, sealed or evidence subject to a publication ban must be filed in a separate CD/DVD-ROM.

Evidence required to be submitted to a party to a Court matter must follow the same rules as above.
Re:We burn a ton of DVD's every week by indytx · 2016-08-27 00:19 · Score: 1

Yeah, but that's a LAW FIRM. You also use FAX on a daily basis.
Actually, at least in Texas, most of the civil courts, and some of the criminal courts, have transitioned to electronic filing which provides for electronic service. It's truly fantastic. Sure, everyone still HAS a facsimile machine, but I also keep a typewriter and a VCR which haven't been used in years. Law firms re old tech central, but that doesn't mean most of the old tech is ever used. It's all for JUST IN CASE.

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Make love, not reality television.

Clean OS install by sinij · 2016-08-26 03:27 · Score: 4, Informative

I still use optical media to ensure clean install of various OS, because unlike USB, it is much harder to sneak one past checksum when you burn install DVD directly from ISO.

Re:Clean OS install by unixisc · 2016-08-26 04:16 · Score: 1

Yeah, I too recently used my PC-BSD DVD to reinstall the OS, after an update to 10.3 had left me w/ just the CLI.
Also, both the laptops that I last bought had DVD drives, just in case. I'm not confident that I'm at the point that I can do w/o an optical drive and just an internet connection.
Re:Clean OS install by eionmac · 2016-08-26 10:14 · Score: 1

Concur. Hundreds of present and old Linux OSs and versions on DVD and CD iso files (storing off computer hard drive) and of course the Live Linux or install DVDs as well after buring iso.

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Regards Eion MacDonald
Re:Clean OS install by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2016-08-26 11:58 · Score: 1

I use optical media for installs, too.
Mostly because they're a more convenient (and better supported than USB sticks) way to build a system onto a fresh(ly wiped) machine.
Also because they're an easy way to insure I didn't accidentally carry over any data from the pre-wipe configuration or the machine I used to download, or got hit with a "catch the machine before it updates" attack while net-loading or updating from the distribution version to the latest bugfixes. (I go to the net for the initial update through an external firewall machine with tight reach-out-only rules.)
Yes, it's not a defence against some of the NSA or "remote-administration feature" style of attacks, through the BIOS, drive firmware, CPU-vendor silicon "management engines", persistent threat malware on the download machine, etc. But it's a start. (Also: If those are any good they keep hiding, so at least they stay out of my way while I'm trying to get some work done. B-b )

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Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way

Yeah, unfortunately we do. by Dust038 · 2016-08-26 03:28 · Score: 5, Informative

So as a member of a public institution of higher education, Flash drives are up there in the top 3 spots of how data goes missing/copied/stolen along with Email. We have the USB ports disabled except for the 1 or 2 for the Mouse and Keyboard and have those locked to not accept new devices to prevent data from going by the by. I state this because I still use CD/DVD Media for computer deployment under secure conditions where Mass deployment software like SCCM are not practical. Closed systems are the bane of my existence. Also being in user support you have to keep a CD/DVD or 2 around for that one user who will inevitably visit your office with a 6 year old laptop with failing HDD and the USB boot doesn't work and you are forced to recover them via CD/DVD.

Re:Yeah, unfortunately we do. by smallfries · 2016-08-26 04:26 · Score: 1

Our deployment is all network based. It means that a lab full of machines can be reinstalled at the same time. Deploying a new iamge for an upgrade takes about 10 mins (including the walk around the room to reset each machine and change bios to netboot). I like our IT department - they do nice things.
When students visit me with work it is rare for them to even bring usb, normally it is sitting on dropbox or onecloud. Installing single one-off machines was the last use that I had for opticals, but now usbboot is quite stable and its less hassle to nuke a stick than it is to find a machine to burn a disc in.

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Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php

Linux ISO discs... by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-08-26 03:29 · Score: 5, Informative

Creating a bootable USB stick under Windows is a hit-and-miss affair. I just find it easier to pop in a blank disc, burn the Linux ISO to the disc, and boot off of that.

Re:Linux ISO discs... by serviscope_minor · 2016-08-26 03:46 · Score: 1

Creating a bootable USB stick under Windows is a hit-and-miss affair. I just find it easier to pop in a blank disc, burn the Linux ISO to the disc, and boot off of that.
It's kind of shocking and bizarre that this is still the case. It's got better in the last few years. It used to be REALLY hit and miss. These days, USB usually works. But still not always for some perverse reason.

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SJW n. One who posts facts.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by InDifferent9109 · 2016-08-26 03:48 · Score: 2

I'm sure there's some benefit in creating a bootable USB stick, but every time I've gone to do it I had to look up some guide or download some application to get it done. With optical media it's literally just burn the disc and you're done.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by sinij · 2016-08-26 03:51 · Score: 1

Hopefully you are not using a USB drive you found in a parking lot or was given away at a conference.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by decep · 2016-08-26 04:04 · Score: 1

If you are booting to a BIOS system, I have found I can just dd the ISO to the USB stick after running the ISO through isohybrid. It is not always required, but it almost guarantees compatibility.
On EFI systems, you can just format the USB stick as fat32/vfat and just copy the files to the USB stick.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by b0bby · 2016-08-26 04:13 · Score: 1

Yeah, I find it easier to burn the iso sometimes too. And some BIOSes are picky about the USB boot media; I have a couple of 1GB sticks I keep around for those times I don't feel like hooking up an external DVD to whatever I'm booting. I've had issues with larger sticks.
So I still get my desktop machines with a dvd. Laptops I don't care one way or the other.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by ArchieBunker · 2016-08-26 04:22 · Score: 1

Sounds like operator error. What problem are you having? Hell you can even get dd for windows if you want.

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Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Re:Linux ISO discs... by MrNiceguy_KS · 2016-08-26 07:11 · Score: 1

Creating a bootable USB stick under Windows is pretty easy, providing you're wanting to boot to Linux. UNetbootin or YUMI both work really well under Windows, with the caveat that they require Admin privileges.
Creating a bootable USB Windows installer, on the other hand, has been very hit-and-miss for me, particularly using Microsoft's USB creation tool.

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Redundancy is good And also good.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by Waccoon · 2016-08-26 16:35 · Score: 1

Ever since UFI came into being, I've come across an awful lot of PCs that will instantly lock up if a USB thumb drive is plugged in upon power-on. Thus, it's impossible to boot off USB. I specifically remember HP machines and several Gigabyte motherboards that have this problem.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by Waccoon · 2016-08-26 16:38 · Score: 1

I meant UEFI. I'm not sure if it's my typing or my proofreading that's getting worse as of late.
Re:Linux ISO discs... by toddestan · 2016-08-27 13:27 · Score: 1

Don't forget the (mostly older) computers that will fail installing Windows 10 if the USB ports are enabled in BIOS. Only way to get Windows 10 installed is to burn to DVD. Luckily once you get past the install you can turn on USB again.
I do believe that's the last time I've used an optical disk to install an OS. I've finally gotten to the point where all the computers I regularly use can boot from USB.

In related news, by fisted · 2016-08-26 03:29 · Score: 1

I just bought a used pair of CD players for 250 bucks a pop.

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CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!

Re:In related news, by TheGratefulNet · 2016-08-26 03:36 · Score: 1

a PAIR of cd players?
did each one have exactly one channel broken? what are the chances of that happening?

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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Re:In related news, by fisted · 2016-08-26 04:06 · Score: 4, Funny

Oh they have no volume knob, so I figured in case one is too quiet, I'll add a second one, hook them up in parallel and make sure I play everything in sync.
That way I cut the output impedance in half AND (via constructive interference) double the amplitude!

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CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
Re:In related news, by ITRambo · 2016-08-26 04:07 · Score: 1

That makes no sense. Optical drives for computers are about $15 each at NewEgg, on sale. USB optical drive is about $20. CD players for a stereo system don't figure into this thread.
Re:In related news, by fisted · 2016-08-26 04:21 · Score: 1

Right, I forgot that audio CDs aren't optical media. Good catch.

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CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!

Yes, but only for specific purposes. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 03:30 · Score: 1

I find optical media useful for transferring information to/from systems on which I've disallowed USB and network access. -PCP

Playstation 3 & 4 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 03:31 · Score: 1

I import PS3 and PS4 games from Japan, instead of buying digitally. Yes I still use optical media.

Not for me by whoozwah · 2016-08-26 03:32 · Score: 1

I ripped all my old CDs and DVDs a long time ago. I built a new PC this year after not having done so in 10 years and didn't buy an optical drive for it.

Begging the question by gavron · 2016-08-26 03:32 · Score: 1, Informative

Begging the question is NOT "Brings up the question". It is assuming a question that is not asked and assuming it to be true.

See:
http://www.nizkor.org/features...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://www.logicallyfallaciou...

Which brings up the question of why /. editors didn't fix that :)

Ehud

Re:Begging the question by LichtSpektren · 2016-08-26 03:40 · Score: 1

Thank you, I was about to post the same thing.
Re:Begging the question by smallfries · 2016-08-26 04:28 · Score: 1

Which of course begs the question: is that relevant to this discussion?

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Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
Re:Begging the question by AthanasiusKircher · 2016-08-26 06:05 · Score: 1

Begging the question is NOT "Brings up the question". It is assuming a question that is not asked and assuming it to be true.
That's a pretty poor explanation of the petitio principii fallacy, but I'm going to assume that's what you were trying to say.
Anyhow, it doesn't mean that anymore. I'm tired of explaining this, so I'll just link to a previous post on the issue.
TL;DR - outside of philosophy journals and angry posts by usage pedants, the phrase hasn't meant petitio principii in a long time. If you use it that way, the vast majority of English speakers (even well-educated ones) won't understand you.
Language changes. Deal with it.

Which brings up the question of why /. editors didn't fix that :)
Well, it appears they did change it now. But it doesn't matter because I'm certain EVERYONE who read the old summary understood what it meant in this context, even you. (And by the way, I'm as pedantic as they come when dealing with English usage, but I also recognize when a battle is pointless. We have at least three or four other clear expressions for that particular logical fallacy -- choose one of them instead, rather than some bastardized English translation based on a bastardized Latin translation that never made sense anyway.)
Re:Begging the question by smallfries · 2016-08-26 19:55 · Score: 1

See, this is where I don't get social signals. I thought he was signalling that he was a twat.

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Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php

All the time by Kargan · 2016-08-26 03:34 · Score: 1

Maybe not for work, but I buy and listen to CDs, I burn CDs/DVDs for myself and others, pull information off of archival CDs and DVDs, pick up Blurays of movies I really like.

You name it, pretty much.

I understand that optical media's use is declining, and that makes sense for a lot of reasons, but there are still uses for it today. It seems that some folks are eager for it to die, for some reason.

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Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises

Yes, for now... by RogueyWon · 2016-08-26 03:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

I have a BD-RE drive in my home desktop. It doesn't get much use, to be honest, but I'm not quite ready to make the jump away from having an optical drive just yet.

I've got a bunch of old backups still on optical discs; everything from CD-Rs to Blu-Rays. Admittedly, this is only low priority "nice to have" stuff. Anything it would actually hurt me if I lost (which is only a couple of hundred megs of data when I get right down to it) is backed up by other, more reliable methods.

I do still have a handful of games on disc that I never bought . Some of these I'm clearly never going to play again and could easily throw out, but there are a couple, such as Warcraft 3, that I'd still like the option to play from time to time.

I will (very occasionally) watch a DVD or Blu-Ray movie on my PC rather than TV. This is particularly true in the summer months; my living room, where the TV lives, can get brutally hot, while my study, where the desktop lives, is cool and shady.

In addition to the above, while boot-from-USB is a lot more reliable than it used to be, I've still had more issues with it than boot-from-optical-disc. So I still like to have an optical drive for those occasions when I need to boot from external media.

Re:Yes, for now... by RogueyWon · 2016-08-26 03:36 · Score: 1

Argh... accidentally deleted a word.
"games on disc that I never bought ." should have been "games on disc that I I never bought digitally."

Nope! by lcarnevale · 2016-08-26 03:38 · Score: 1

No, last desktop compute I bought I didn't even bother to look for dvd/br drive. I think dvd/br consume too much space and are more expensive than some hard drives.

Only for short-term stuff by bradley13 · 2016-08-26 03:38 · Score: 1

Self-burned optical disks are crap for data archival. It's pure lottery whether or not you can read them in a few years, even the "good" brands. For movies and music, it doesn't matter so much if you have a few glitches on the disc. For data backups, it matters a lot.

I only use optical media for short-term data transfer, like handing big files to our local print shop. For me, data archival means spinning rust.

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Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.

Re:Only for short-term stuff by Ormy · 2016-08-26 06:53 · Score: 1

I used to use DVD-Rs for archival storage, I would burn the discs at no more than 8x speed and store them in a large zip-up CD cases holding 320 discs each. When I decided to transfer everything to HDDs 5 years later, about 10% of the discs had errors.

Medical information by phorm · 2016-08-26 03:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is pretty common for medical records too. When the hospital gives you results of cancer screening/X-Rays, it's often a bunch of files or images/videos on a DVD

disposable media by i.r.id10t · 2016-08-26 03:40 · Score: 4, Informative

All the time, as disposable media. Give some data to someone, don't care if you get the disc back.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos

Re:disposable media by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 04:07 · Score: 1

optical media is great because it is Read Only. using a USB flash drive or hard drive is risky because it can get infected with something and then transferred. flash drives put us back to the floppy drive problems again. why doesn't someone come up with a fix? all the supposed read only drives are up to the software to honor, and not truly hardware enforced.
Re:disposable media by Anne+Thwacks · 2016-08-26 04:51 · Score: 2

optical media is great because it is Read Only. using a USB flash drive or hard drive is risky because it can get infected with something and then transferred.
This
I use tape for backup/archive, but to send CNC data to the factory, I use CDs. That way, they cannot claim I sent them something else. Anyway, if you sent them USB sticks/SD cards, they would probably lose them because they are too small (its a FACTORY).

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Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII

Fortified Bluray for backup by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 03:41 · Score: 1

I use Bluray's for backing up my family photos/video and to address the reliability worries I use DVDisaster which address extra ECC information making it more resistant to degradation.

Government Networks by AF_Cheddar_Head · 2016-08-26 03:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

USB sticks have been effectively banned on DoD networks. We regularly use CD/DVD media to burn software and patches to then transfer it to the classified networks. The optical drives on the high side are almost always read-only to avoid issues with transport of classified off the servers.

Re:Government Networks by TheGratefulNet · 2016-08-26 06:26 · Score: 1

I worked at DEC back when cdrom was just coming out (DEC had a server called 'infoserver' that would be a bank of cdrom drives you could mount and get data from; back in late 80's, early 90's).
we had requests from customers to OMIT the vol control and front TRS jack so that music could not easily be played using those drives. the customers were 'afraid' their worker bees might be enjoying their work-time too much by endulging in some music while they work. DEC saw dollar signs and said 'sure! we'll let you treat your workers like shit. no problem!'. sigh.
wonder who those customers were? we (engineering) were not told, just that it had to be removed from the product for 'some customers'.

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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."

Not Really by EndlessNameless · 2016-08-26 03:44 · Score: 1

I have a DVD+RW drive in case I need optical media, but I haven't used it since installing the OS on the system years ago. Even then, I would have used a USB flash drive if I hadn't lost it shortly beforehand.

The network has gotten faster in the last 10-20 years, and optical media really hasn't. I can copy encrypted data over my internet connection faster than I can burn it to disc.

Hard disk capacity has grown to the point where everything will fit for most users, so there is no need to dump audio/video/apps when space runs out. USB hard drives offer greater capacity and speed. Disk is more available than ever, which makes optical media increasingly pointless.

Optical media is basically for people who want archival backups, or as a last resort for transferring data.

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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.

Re:Not Really by epyT-R · 2016-08-26 09:39 · Score: 1

It will have a place until usb flash becomes cheap enough to replace them as throwaways.

I don't know about "Archival" grade or not, but... by mandark1967 · 2016-08-26 03:44 · Score: 1

for personal use, I still access many of my generic "CompUSA" branded CDRs from 1997 that read just fine and I have many others from different manufacturers that are still working fine.

At work, I create several CDs per week and I've never encountered problems with them after 4+years of use.

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Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain

Not for backup, but yes for music and video by TigerPlish · 2016-08-26 03:44 · Score: 1

I don't use it for backup, I use two MyBooks that I rotate - one home, one off-site.

I still buy music in CD. I don't buy much music, I'd say 95% is classical. I also have ripped around 95% of all my music into 312lkbps MP3.

For video, I stream / netflix snailmail as a means to screen before i buy it. If I like it I buy it, and on Blu-Ray if possible.

I have a 7-foot screen on the horizontal and fairly decent projection, sound and room. I have a pretty good blu-ray player. It's still my primary source. (Oppo BD-103, for the curious). Presentation matters.

I like my shelves full of books, CDs and bluray/dvd. I also like the convenience of media-less formats. Why not have both?

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The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.

Yes, we still send manuals on CD by imatter · 2016-08-26 03:48 · Score: 1

We make large industrial equipment and we still send the manual and print pack on a CD with the machine. The customer can buy hard copies of the same materials and we have sent the materials out on thumb drives but standard practice is to send a CD. I think that the old idea "no one ever reads the manual" is the reason we have not changed this practice and we have a shitload of CDs.

Optical is better for installing an OS by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 03:55 · Score: 1

It's much easier to burn a disk image to a DVD than prepare an USB stick as a bootable OS installation media.

Yep, I still wear my glasses by AchilleTalon · 2016-08-26 03:55 · Score: 1

Yep, I still wear my glasses, I am not elligible for a corneal surgery.

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Achille Talon
Hop!

The Spare Tire Of Computing? by kackle · 2016-08-26 03:57 · Score: 1

I back up/image my hard drive regularly using a large-storage, USB, thumb drive with Macrium's Reflect software (I have no relation to them - I like the software); the idea being that the encrypted flash stick can hook to my key chain and be off-site and with me (if I ever need a file while away from home).

Just a few weeks ago, my sister bought a new laptop to replace her decade old laptop, which still works, but struggles to keep up with today's web. (Why?! Grrr...) I think she inadvertently got one without an optical drive. Anyway, she called me for advice on setting it up and asked about which office suite to use. 'I still have MS Office 2003 on CD-ROM, should I just use that?', she said. I reminded her of her purchase, which elicited a "D'oh!"

Re:Can't remember how long it's been. by 0100010001010011 · 2016-08-26 03:59 · Score: 1

Since at least 2003 ish for me. As soon as those "Replace your DVD drive" things came out for my MacBook Pro I got one and had 2 hard drives. The same goes for any other machine I buy that insists I have a DVD drive.

For backups it's Tape.

Great for backup by kushaldas · 2016-08-26 03:59 · Score: 2

This week I finally managed to find my backups from 2001 on CD(s), and a few DVD backups. All of the them seems to be in perfect state. Planning to buy blueray writer to move to next level of backups at home.

I do on occasion.... by JDeane · 2016-08-26 03:59 · Score: 1

Every once in a while I run into an old laptop that will not boot from USB, so I am forced to burn a CD or DVD of Linux to get it into "working good enough to use" territory.

My car can play MP3 CD's so maybe 1 or 2 times a year I will fill up a CD with random music from my collection and listen to those when the mood strikes me.

I used to back up my movies for my kids and grand kids to DVD-R or +R so I could keep the originals in working order... but with the advent of streaming from Netflix and Hulu and Amazon and Youtube, I don't even bother with that anymore.

I probably have like 20-30 blank CD's left and probably about the same number of blank DVD's. Should last me a few years before I make the decision to retire optical media or keep it around for the really obscure time I want to burn a disk.

Re:I do on occasion.... by JDeane · 2016-08-26 04:05 · Score: 1

My post gives me an idea... Maybe some one knows if something like this already exists... Could a boot CD be made that has a list of Linux repo's that have all the different distro's (or even self updates said list) where it could just install what ever the latest distro is for all the most popular flavors?
I ask because I am currently working on a couple of laptops, and I just had to burn like 6 disks (3 CD's and 3 DVD's) I mean they will be good for a long time. But it seems to me like 1 disk with what I am talking about would be nice and less waste in dumps in the long run, with no need to update the disk as it's just a generic installer?
Re:I do on occasion.... by flex941 · 2016-08-26 05:17 · Score: 1

Zalman ZM-VE350 or such is very helpful in this case. Use any old hard disks and fill with .ISOs. Boot whatever you need the moment. Granted, won't work for really old computers without (proper) USB optical storage support. There are some glitches even with newer ones. But overall - very nice device. No need to hustle around with strange reflective disks.
Re:I do on occasion.... by Gavagai80 · 2016-08-26 07:23 · Score: 1

The install process for every distro is different. The only way that could work is if the boot disk overwrites most of itself with the latest ISO that it downloads, and then reboots and somehow defers to the ISO (a bootloader that gives you a choice between booting the newly-download distro's installer or booting the meta-installer?). That might work but would be more sensible to do with a USB stick.

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Re:I do on occasion.... by JDeane · 2016-08-26 08:41 · Score: 1

Crushed are my dreams of some sort of magical all in one disk that doesn't ever need to be updated... lol
Meh, live and learn. Thank you for the information though.
Re:I do on occasion.... by JDeane · 2016-08-26 08:56 · Score: 1

yeah out of like 3 laptops I have here, none of them have any sort of boot from USB option.... Damn it... lol. All of them are pre Core2Duo era so I guess I shouldn't be surprised? They can barely run Windows 7 but Linux runs nicely on them...
Then Wifi becomes the issue.... damned Broadcom BCM4311... I can get the wl driver working fine under 32 bit, but you need 64 bit for Chrome and Netflix (one of them wants to watch Netflix.... god damn it just buy a TV...) lol I think I can do it, it runs ok at SD res over ethernet so Wifi if I can get it working shouldn't be an issue? lol
How do I get snared into this crap... (I am not a Linux guru by any stretch of the imagination.)
Anyway back to random forums and trying to solve this... (Slitaz seems the fastest distro for me that might work.)

DVD media should last for years by nanoflower · 2016-08-26 04:00 · Score: 1

If someone lost 8000 DVDs they did something wrong. Either buying really cheap media or storing it improperly. I have DVDs that I burned from ten years ago that still work fine. I recently moved a few hundred DVDs over to BluRay for the reduced storage space and only had a few files that I had issues recovering. The rest came across with no problem and that was with a mix of Verbatim (good quality) and Sony (not quite so good quality) media.

Re:DVD media should last for years by I4ko · 2016-08-26 06:28 · Score: 1

From the past 18 years the only media that I can still read besides pressed originals is Verbatim (Super AZO and Metal AZO) burned at the lowest possible speed. All other media brands has failed spectacularly. However back in 2009 my policy for backups changed. I switched all my computers to 2.5" laptop drives, the drives are ran 400 to 500 days non-stop (24/7), then they are cloned on new drives and the old ones are placed inside a storage cabinet. All of them still work just fine.

No by nospam007 · 2016-08-26 04:01 · Score: 1

Subject says it all.

Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by kheldan · 2016-08-26 04:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

Unless someone starts producing USB flash drives that have a hardware write protect switch that can't be countermanded by software, there is, in my opinion, still a need for optical media. Otherwise there is no way to truly protect your data from being altered or deleted by bad actors. The polar opposite woudl be cloud storage, which is about as 'volatile' as you can get; companies offering cloud storage could suddenly go out of business and screw you out of your data, or if they're being bad actors, futz with your data or delete it. There has been more than one news story over the years of people's digital purchases either being altered or deleted, even though they were stored on their local machines, because of either conscious decision or error on the part of the IP owners and their DRM. Recently there was even a case of a songwriter/musicians' own personal works being deleted by iTunes, even though iTunes/Apple had absolutely NO rights whatsoever to the content that was deleted! Nope, there is still a need for some sort of write-once-read-many storage medium, or something that can be made read-only on demand in a way that can't be overridden. Even removable semiconductor or rotating storage is still read/write, and for all you know the next time you plug it in, something will get deleted by some DRM action or malware.

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Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!

Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by myrdos2 · 2016-08-26 04:19 · Score: 2

Unless someone starts producing USB flash drives that have a hardware write protect switch that can't be countermanded by software
Those already exist.
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by kheldan · 2016-08-26 05:31 · Score: 1

Great. Point me at them. I've looked at various points in time and haven't had much luck finding any that weren't tiny in capacity and/or made by some unknown company.

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Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by I4ko · 2016-08-26 06:24 · Score: 1

Transcend did back in early 2000s. Now no one does.
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by I4ko · 2016-08-26 06:31 · Score: 1

The switch on the SD card is the same as the ta on the cassette tape or the 5.25" floppy. It is useless because it is the host that decides whether to write or not. There was flash drives in the past where the switch cut the erasing power to the controller, but those a long gone (gave them away as presents and what not)
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by myrdos2 · 2016-08-26 07:10 · Score: 1

You can find them on Amazon. I've never heard of any of the manufacturers though.
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by myrdos2 · 2016-08-26 07:19 · Score: 1

Hey, check this thing out. You plug a USB storage device into it, and it blocks write attempts.
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by kheldan · 2016-08-26 08:19 · Score: 1

No good. That's still something done in software (firmware, really). I want something that literally disconnects and pulls high the #WRITE signal to the flash memory via a hardwired physical switch. No possibility then of anything in the OS or any other software circumventing it. Think the write-protect tab on a floppy disk.

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Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by kheldan · 2016-08-26 08:21 · Score: 1

If I can dismantle it and it's really a direct hardware connection to the #WRITE signal, then sure.

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Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by epyT-R · 2016-08-26 09:58 · Score: 1

Not at the same pricepoint as optical media.
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by Agripa · 2016-08-27 20:25 · Score: 1

Unless someone starts producing USB flash drives that have a hardware write protect switch that can't be countermanded by software
Those already exist.
And has a specified unpowered retention time.
I stopped storing archival data on USB Flash drives a couple years ago when I found that brand new drives all suffered from bit rot after not much more than a year. My oldest CDs and DVDs going back 10+ years still have no lost data.
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by Keybounce · 2016-08-28 10:00 · Score: 1

The polar opposite would be cloud storage, which is about as 'volatile' as you can get; ... if they're being bad actors, futz with your data or delete it.

One thing I've considered: If there's anything important that I want to put into the cloud, put it into git first, and just put the git repository into the cloud. If anything gets altered, git has a security hash to let me know that the file is corrupted.
Re:Yes, because optical is READ ONLY. by Wolfrider · 2016-08-28 21:58 · Score: 1

--I bought that exact drive (Kanguru 16GB USB3 with write-protect switch) and it has been a *great* little drive. Very fast read speeds; I mostly use it for client-PC troubleshooting and carry around all my utility software on it. Handy if you're not sure a client's PC might be infected, and more space than a standard DVD. A tad pricy, but well worth it.

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== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??

Cheap way to mass rip? by 0ld_d0g · 2016-08-26 04:05 · Score: 1

Is there a (legal) service that I can ship old audio/video CDs DVDs to and they could just rip it for me in bulk?

Car stereo by mwvdlee · 2016-08-26 04:06 · Score: 1

My car stereo only takes CD's, so yeah... still using optical media. I rarely ever use DVD's any more; only for archival grade DVD backups (and even those are becoming increasingly rare) and have never even bothered with BD. I own a BD player as an amplifier for my TV because the audio quality was better than a similarly priced home theater system or *spit* "soundbar", but have never tried an actual BD disc.

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Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?

I have a spindle of 100 blank DVD-R discs by jeffmflanagan · 2016-08-26 04:06 · Score: 1

I expect it to last for the rest of my life, since I've shifted to hard-drive arrays for storage and FTP to exchange files. I've burned 2 DVDs so far this year.

Yard Sales by rickb928 · 2016-08-26 04:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

I buy a lot of older CDs at yard sales to fill in my collections, though others are figuring this out.

- CHEAP.

- No DRM, subscriptions, licensing. These are MINE, all MINE! Bahahahahah!

- Rip them to my music services.

- Save them to both my archives.

- Long-term storage of the discs.

- And it's a cheap way to buy old music. Oh, I mentioned that.

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deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.

Used to but haven't in a few years due to USB by UnknownSoldier · 2016-08-26 04:12 · Score: 1

On my current gaming rig (i7, GTX 980Ti, SSD, etc) I didn't even bother with the optical drive when I built it a few years ago. Yeah, the DVD Burner was only $20 but with USB sticks so cheap I haven't used a optical disk it in a few years. I already have enough old machines with DVD Burners that they are accessible.

I do miss not having an optical drive on my MacBook Pro. I guess it is motivation to finish ripping my Audio CD's to FLAC.

I also miss EAC (Exact Audio Copy) for making perfect rips of my audio CD's. Does anyone know of a replacement on Linux and OSX ?

Re:Used to but haven't in a few years due to USB by undefinedreference · 2016-08-26 06:30 · Score: 1

dd?

100 MB is more than enough for anyone. by malditaenvidia · 2016-08-26 04:14 · Score: 1

You can pry my iomega zip drive from my cold, dead hands.

Re:100 MB is more than enough for anyone. by jofas · 2016-08-26 05:49 · Score: 1

A Jaz drive holds literally 2.5x the data! Why hold on to the past?

I distribute community event videos on DVD by C0L0PH0N · 2016-08-26 04:14 · Score: 1

I video plays, variety shows and other presentations put on by the members of our community, and burn the videos to DVD's playable in DVD players, so that the recipients can watch them on TV. I feel badly about using DVD's because the videos are at least 1920x1080 (and 4k capable), so they are dumbed down to 720x480 for the DVD's. But people like to play them in their DVD players and share their activities with their families, so they are very popular. I am planning for the future to switch to Blu-Ray, or even flash drives, but few in my group have Blu-Ray disk players yet. I have a printer which prints an image on the DVD's, so they look very spiffy, though I distribute them at cost. It is a fully volunteer effort. I might add that I use the PowerDirector video editing software which is wonderful for a non-professional, an unpaid plug :).

And about 1.44 disks? by fire4ever · 2016-08-26 04:16 · Score: 2

Optical? Last week I had to recover some files that someone forgot to copy when we stopped to use diskettes. It was complicated to find a machine that still supports 3 1/2 drives. By the way, Maxell diskettes could be read without problems even after almost 20 years.

In my car by saccade.com · 2016-08-26 04:16 · Score: 1

I still use them in my car for listening to audio books (in MP3 format). My car *does* have an USB jack as well, but having the disc player means I can switch between two different channels (say, a book on the CD and music on the USB) without losing my place in either. I'd be just as happy with two USB jacks; it's all about having multiple channels of entertainment that each keep track of where you left off.

Building a huge-- and legal-- music collection. by operagost · 2016-08-26 04:18 · Score: 2

I still need an optical drive because my latest obsession is buying used CDs for $0.25-2.00 and ripping them. I'm able to get all the albums I couldn't afford when I was a starving single person, and all the ones I missed during the '00s when my tastes were different.

I mostly still use WMP for this, because it has the one neat feature that allows it to start ripping as soon as a CD is inserted without even pressing a button. This allows you to save a minute or two if you have to rip a stack. I'm about to ditch it for Freerip, however, because WMP does occasionally fail to rip a track (which can be missed because the track listing disappears when the disc is ejected) and usually hangs on startup for no apparent reason until the system is rebooted. WMP is discontinued, so these issues will never be fixed.

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Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.

Still use it to distribute photographs... by bev_tech_rob · 2016-08-26 04:20 · Score: 1

My wife is a part-time photographer and occasionally works a wedding or graduation taking photos. If people want to buy a copy of the photos to print at their leisure, I burn them to CD or DVD depending on the amount of photos.

I originally bought a BluRay drive for my PC to condense the DVD backups I had onto fewer discs, but now use it to make backups of any Blu Ray movies that I buy.

Also still burn the occasional music CD for the missus to use in her car.

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You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....

I still use the crap out of it. by pecosdave · 2016-08-26 04:21 · Score: 1

If I order a CD off of Amazon a lot of the times it's CHEAPER than buying the MP3 album - and it comes with the MP3 album already ripped as a bonus. If it weren't for the fact I like to rip my disk to ogg I could put the CD in the box unopened and it would be cheaper than buying the digital album. Yes I realize I could convert the MP3s to ogg, don't lose site of what I'm doing here.

I buy my movies mostly on BluRay, when I buy a DVD I usually buy them from a super cheap bargain bin for $3 each. I rip them and put them on my media server. I don't have to worry about bandwidth caps or my unreliable cable connection to watch movies I bought that way. I have a toddler, on weekdays my TV pretty much plays Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry, and Popeye non-stop. I would rather play it all off of that hard drive that I filled up off of my legally purchased DVD's than have the bad karma or pirating. (even though half or more of that is in the public domain - the restored versions are worth a few bucks)

Yes I Netflix and Amazon Prime. I don't trust all of these companies to be perpetually available, and I don't trust the gestapo not to take over the Internet.

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The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.

This is not a new issue by rickb928 · 2016-08-26 04:24 · Score: 2

R/W or even write-once CDs and DVDs have been known to have finite shelf lives for decades now. Yes.

One solution is to rewrite them every few years, but that's time consuming, and unless you have a really compelling reason to do so, the investment needed to make this practical, with autoloaders, labelers, and such is prohibitive. At work, the old mainframe reel tape libraries were converted to robotics 30 years ago, then converted to cartridges, and and finally about 12 years ago to a virtualized tape environment - all the requests still refer to carts and such, as if the arms are still running around grabbing plastic, but it's in a SAN and that's properly backed up and virtualized, at least so far as we can tell. Hopefully it's secured better than the storage on the Z series that went tits up this spring. I only lost around 20 VMs, but one had around 100 million customer reports that were lost, and the application software, and the server OS and all other software. About 7000 or so VMs were lost, some irretrievably since the owners didn't have offline copies. If Infoworld still published on paper, this would have worthy of the back page.

The best practice is probably to replicate that and copy optical media to something more durable, replicate it, and keep the originals if you must in a cooler environment, as heat seems to be a factor. Some brands have had worse longevity than others, but that's a crap shoot.

Now ask me about my cassette tape archives, or the 10" reel tapes I would have to buy a machine to use... Sentimental value now, I'm sure they would need go go back to 3M to be recovered.

Data archiving is a pain. I've given in to archiving everything, rather than wring my hands over what 10% of it I really don't need.

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deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.

Van with a DVD player by fluffernutter · 2016-08-26 04:25 · Score: 1

My van has a DVD player and it will for some time. Sometimes I use a raspberry pi and let the kids access media that way but it's also always good to have a couple DVDs on hand

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.

Media and taxes by Anonymous Coward · 2016-08-26 04:25 · Score: 3, Interesting

I work for a software large company, and we still ship software on optical media. Of course we also provide downloads, which is what customers actually use. But in some circumstances we are still required to ship physical media. Why? Because of the tax implications!

February or so... by cmiller173 · 2016-08-26 04:26 · Score: 1

Last I used was the H&R Block tax software from last year. In fact the disc is still in my laptop drive. I only used the disc version because I got a deal and it was cheaper than a direct download from Amazon.

I've since switched over to Linux full time so I'll probably have to do the taxes next year on my wife's windows laptop. I've been contemplating getting one of those drive caddies that replace the laptop optical drive and allows you to install an additional hard drive. That way I could put in a second SSD!

Options are optional. by sims+2 · 2016-08-26 04:31 · Score: 1

I like having options every computer I work with on a day to day basis or I own has at minimum USB DVD multi recorder hanging on it if it happens to not have a ODD built in.

I don't use them a lot anymore but there is no cheaper method of giving files to people offline that's as easy to use and reliable.

I've never used a cd or dvd as a backup media aside from the os recovery discs you get to burn yourself because they aren't included with new PCs anymore.

I've got discs burned discs from 2004 that still read fine. I've been throwing a bunch of them away lately I didn't use to be very good at labeling my discs. Most of it is junk but I still have a few boot discs that I still use today. The current version of Gparted doesn't allow resizing certain partition types anymore. But the version I had laying in a drawer for the last 10 years works fine.

NINAB Newer Is Not Always Better

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Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!

secure boot / UEFI isses based on format GTP / MBR by Joe_Dragon · 2016-08-26 04:38 · Score: 1

secure boot / UEFI isses based on format GTP / MBR can come up with usb boot and it can very system to system

Don't dismiss WORM media yet by Solandri · 2016-08-26 04:38 · Score: 2

Optical media is WORM - write once, read many. This makes it secure against tampering after it's been written, so something like a ransomware virus can't destroy your backup even if it's still online. You also can't do something stupid like find that a file you need has become corrupted, plug in your backup drive, and accidentally copy the corrupt file over your backup instead of the other way around (I've done that).

I've been saying for 20+ years that our random access storage media like HDDs and flash memory needs a physical write-protect switch. It would solve so many problems. A significant percentage of the computer support customers I get are to recover media which has become unreadable because they plugged it into a device to watch a movie or copy a few files, and when they unplugged it (without first unmounting) the device screwed up the partition table or FAT making it unreadable. "All my kids' baby photos are on there and my wife will kill me if I can't get them back."

And if OSes were designed to run off read-only media (write temp files and log files elsewhere), they'd essentially be invulnerable to rooting. A buffer overflow vulnerability might allow an attacker to execute an arbitrary command, but they wouldn't be able to leverage it to modify the system so they have root access after a reboot. Data breaches wouldn't be impossible, but they'd be much, much harder.

But aside from write-protect switches on SD cards and WORM media, everyone seems to overlook the usefulness of being able to store data as read-only.

Optical media is also dirt cheap. SSDs/Flash memory is around 30 cents/GB. HDDs around 10 cents/GB. BD-Rs are around 2 cents/GB and if they follow the same pattern as CD-Rs and DVD-Rs, will eventually settle at around 0.8 cents/GB.

Re:Don't dismiss WORM media yet by jofas · 2016-08-26 05:56 · Score: 1

Write blocking is used for digital forensics all the time to prevent touching the evidence. PATA write blocker is really easy to make and SATA ones are less than $50 now and getting cheaper.

My backup solution. by umask077 · 2016-08-26 04:40 · Score: 1

This is probably not a good idea for a work environment where people don't have the knowledge to connect a drive. I have 4tb Sata3 drive I use for backup. Its mounted in the machine. When i want to backup I just pull the back cover off the machine and plug in the drive. Works like a champ. Not so hot if you have a fire but if your just worried about losing data normally it is possible solution. I do this twice a month. Once a quarter I backup everything up to another a loose hard drive I mount via USB Cradle. That drive ends up in the fire safe.

This has kept me from losing data for many years. The drives i use to backup to in the machine I replaced with a faster hard drive last year but the loose ones are older 2TB drives I had for many years.

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--- Always remember. 99.36% of all statistics are inaccurate.

Still cheaper than USB drives... by RoverDaddy · 2016-08-26 04:40 · Score: 1

for giving large amounts of data (like photo albums) to friends, especially since I have a spindle of DVD-Rs bought years ago that rarely get touched. Also as a backup to my backup (which is encrypted hard drives I can take offsite).

And, the reliability of optical is still pretty damn good in my experience. I just had reason to pull data from a CD-R burned in 2003. One file out of several hundred failed to read, which I ascribe to bad handling (this was a music collection for my kids to play on vacation), more than degraded media. For any data I really want to keep forever, I would replace my DVD backups every few years with fresh burns from primary storage. I have looked into upgrading to BD-R but the cost is too great (for drives and media). I suspect my optical use cases will eventually switch to flash, but that hasn't happened yet.

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RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050

Re:DVD is more safe by ColdWetDog · 2016-08-26 04:44 · Score: 1, Funny

I back up all my data onto 4.7 GB Truecrypt volumes and burn them to DVD and put them into my safe.

I think DVD is more resistant to EMP than Blu-Ray.

You really think Trump is going to win?

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!

No by CptLoRes · 2016-08-26 04:48 · Score: 1

Not had any need for CD/DVD/BR for many years now. And installing a OS from a good USB stick is way, way faster anyways. But I bought a external USB Blue-ray recorder that I keep on the shelf in case of some weird device with drivers on CD only or something like that. Haven't needed it yet..

Re:Get Permanent DVD/Bluray Disks by Anne+Thwacks · 2016-08-26 04:55 · Score: 1

You can buy permanent DVD/Bluray disks now that last more than 1000+ years.

And if they don't, when the 1,000 years is up, you get your money back.

I have read back tapes I wrote myself after 30 years. I cant read backup CDs from 5 years ago, and I live in London, so I can't blame the California weather..

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Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII

Archive, burning music disks, handing data out. by w3woody · 2016-08-26 04:56 · Score: 1

I use M-Disc (archival quality) for burning project data for old projects I'm no longer working on. I also use them to burn music disks, and for handing out data when I don't care if I get the disk back. It may not store as much data as a modern flash drive, but often I only want to transfer a handful of files, and CD-R disks are only about 20 cents a disk if you buy them in batches of 50. (Meaning if I want to mail someone some data, the disk costs less than the postage stamp.)

What you need to know about optical media by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · 2016-08-26 05:02 · Score: 4, Informative

I have experience with this. I'm not just pulling this out of my rear end.

CDs - Honestly, they're all pretty much the same now. If you really worry a lot about these, Taiyo Yuden makes high quality discs and Verbatim made ones that use AZO dye may have superior longevity. Maybe. By the time we know if they do or not, nobody will probably care. But honestly any name brand is almost identical in quality to Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim for CDs. That does not apply to other types of discs though.

DVDs - You can buy Taiyo Yuden and you can buy Verbatim. Everything TY makes is great. Most of Verbatim's stuff is great except their cheap Life series of discs which is the same landfill grade crap that everybody else in the industry makes, including TDK. Note that Verbatim also makes DataLifePlus which is top notch and not the same at all as Life series. Skip everybody else here. And nobody knows if dual layer consumer burnable DVDs will last as long as single layer ones do. Again, by the time we figure it out, nobody will probably care to know. In the earlier part of the previous decade most name manufacturers made really high quality DVD media, but the US marketplace demanded lower price, so almost everybody switched to cheap crap. TDK was actually really good at one time, using Taiyo Yuden as their manufacturer, but that hasn't been true for more than a decade now. I specifically mention TDK because the top article does. Note that Sony sometimes does and sometimes does not use top notch manufacturers for their DVD media but you'll never know which they've used until you buy it. Not worth the trouble in my opinion since you know what you get with Verbatim (non-Life series) and Taiyo Yuden. Note that Verbatim uses AZO dye on all their DVDs except the Life series, even though they don't always say so on the packaging.

BluRays - I pretty much stick to Verbatim (again, avoid Life series) and Panasonic here. Taiyo Yuden barely makes BD discs and last I checked they only made a single layer LTH type that some burners and some players may have problems with. LTH discs are a way to leverage existing DVD pressing plants so they can also make BD media and because these discs actually are written and read from backwards from normal BD media, some burners and some players have problems with them. Verbatim also makes some LTH BD discs and some regular BD discs. I advise avoiding the LTH media unless you are sure you can burn it and play it.

Re:What you need to know about optical media by jeepies · 2016-08-26 11:45 · Score: 1

I strongly disagree with what you're saying here. In regards to archival media you should not use CD-Rs, CD-RWs, DVD+/-Rs, DVD+/-RW, or DVD-RAM discs. Flat out don't. Note that my comments are targeted at having stuff that will be around in 20+ years. If you're burning discs to just move data around or pass a copy of some files off to someone, anything will work.

It use to be received wisdom that you buy Taiyo Yuden discs and life was good. They are good quality discs, but they are not archival quality. All CD/DVD recordable discs are made using organic dyes (AZO or not) and are susceptible to breakdown over time. Light exposure will hasten this process. Not to mention all these discs all use aluminum reflective layers that are subject to oxidation which will make the discs unreadable.

The recordable layer BD-Rs is made of inorganic alloys and won't break down over time. BD-Rs have been tested to handle extreme temperatures and be perfectly readable. Except LTH discs... They use organic layers and are susceptible to breakdown just like their CD/DVD cousins.

I agree with your recommendation for Panasonic BD-Rs. They're the best in many tests, but unfortunately hard to find. I just got a spindle from Japan last week and they were about $75 for 30, so a bit pricey. Verbatim are just "ok." Sony would be a good second choice after Panasonic. Avoid LTH all together. Not only does it have compatibility issues, but it won't last nearly as long as a regular BD-R (HTL).
Re:What you need to know about optical media by ayesnymous · 2016-08-26 19:12 · Score: 1

For DVD+Rs, I have noticed a drop in quality from Verbatim. The last few batches I got in the past 1-2 years have exceeded acceptable error thresholds in Nero CD-DVD Speed. A Taiyo Yuden batch I got a year ago passed with flying colors. Fortunately it was a batch made in Japan, as I heard they were moving production China - not a good sign. I'm looking for DVD+R DLs, and TY doesn't make those. Verbatim does, but the reviews say that quality has dropped ever since they moved production from Singapore to UAE a few years ago.

Re:Yes - for recording live audio by Schezar · 2016-08-26 05:09 · Score: 1

Dude, just buy a Marantz or something. Soldi State has all the benefits you describe at a lower cost and higher quality/reliability.

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GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!

Still using... by flex941 · 2016-08-26 05:11 · Score: 1

... CD-s. Car radio is able to play MP3s but no USB mass-storage input or such. So I write music to CDs to consume in car. DVDs are not supported either. I haven't paid attention to the brand as long as it's a recognizable one - Verbatim, TDK, some more. Older discs still seem to work after some years (except when really scratched physically).

Yes by jgotts · 2016-08-26 05:15 · Score: 2

I just got done burning nearly 100 CD-Rs for a relative who requested a bunch of music. If you don't own a car made in the last 5 years you may not even have an AUX port, let alone Bluetooth. My 17-year-old car has neither, although I did install an aftermarket Bluetooth FM transmitter so I can use my smartphone in that application.

For myself I burn DVDs of live music, with an archival backup residing on an external hard drive just in case the media fails horribly. Minor failures of the media are no problem, as players will skip it and the viewing experience is not really degraded. Do I like to permanently archive data on optical media as my only backup? Not really.

Yes! by sootman · 2016-08-26 05:25 · Score: 1

Because Redbox, libraries, and Handbrake exist.

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Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.

not for backups by roc97007 · 2016-08-26 05:26 · Score: 1

I don't use optical disks for backup. They're too slow and there's too much data. I use hot swappable hard drives for backup now, and I suspect I'll be using solid state drives for this purpose in the near future. There just isn't anything fast enough or dense enough to be practical. The most recent backup drives are on-site, and the previous backups are offsite.

...and I don't back up to "the cloud", for several reasons I won't go into now.

...but I still use CDs, even today. I have a photography business, and I find that some customers are uncomfortable buying photos off a website (similar to buying things off Amazon, which some people also prefer not to do) and don't want to use Dropbox or other cloud services for delivery. I have a surprising number of customers who want to call me with a list of photos they want, burned to a CD or DVD (depending on quantity) and shipped to their location, despite the extra charge for this service.

I'm trying to wean them off CDs and onto thumb drives (which you can buy in quantity amazingly cheap these days) and maybe, who knows, they'll start buying online in the future.

The point being, it's about comfort zone, and it's bad karma to argue with a customer who's trying to give you money.

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Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

No. Why should I? by drolli · 2016-08-26 05:28 · Score: 1

Must have been over 2 years that i actually touched an optical disc in order to insert it into a drive. The last time i bought DVDs was in 2011, because they were cheap. The last time i rented DVDs was in 2013. The last time i bought a CD was ~2008 or 2009.

You youngsters and your cloud by HBI · 2016-08-26 05:35 · Score: 1

Just wait till the first provider goes dark, and you lose all your data.

I'll still be sitting here with BACKUP TAPES!!!

Now get off my lawn.

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HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.

Re:You youngsters and your cloud by MoarSauce123 · 2016-08-26 06:13 · Score: 1

Still using my old QIC 80 tapes. Unfortunately, I need to keep an old Win 98 box around for that. New systems do not have floppy controllers and newer OS no longer support QIC 80 drives. I had the tapes sitting in a cabinet at room temperature for over 20 years now and they still work fine. I'd get a modern tape drive if the drives were not so expensive. Instead, I buy SATA drives when they are on sale for a piggish price and use that as backup.
Re:You youngsters and your cloud by undefinedreference · 2016-08-26 06:13 · Score: 1

I don't trust the cloud providers, either. If I host something with one, I always assume it will need to be possible to completely load/restore it somewhere else. Tapes are the only remaining magnetic media that I still believe have a legitimate use case. Hard disks are still far too expensive to fit between tapes and solid state storage.
Re:You youngsters and your cloud by HBI · 2016-08-26 06:54 · Score: 1

I am concerned about the lubrication and circuit boards (electrolytic caps, mostly) associated with hard disks over long term storage. I have found a high failure rate on my own old hard drives - old MFM drives were kind of crappily engineered, however, so the fact that an ST-251 drive from 1990 doesn't work today shouldn't necessarily be indicative of the lifespan of say, a WD Black 1TB manufactured in 2010.

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HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.

NO! by spire3661 · 2016-08-26 05:48 · Score: 1

I havent had an optical drive internally installed for at least 7 years. I hahavent OWNED an optical drive for at least 3. Optical sucks. I will occasionally burn my photos to optical just to have them on a different format than flash/HDD.

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Good-bye

Lost all 8000? by superdave80 · 2016-08-26 05:52 · Score: 1

in which somebody described losing 8000 (sic!) DVDs of data after 4 years of storage.

I'm trying to figure out which part is less believable: That somebody took the time to write stuff to 8000 DVDs (rather than just a few TB hard drives), or that all 8000 went bad.

Re:Lost all 8000? by MoarSauce123 · 2016-08-26 06:10 · Score: 1

OP didn't specify exactly what happened. If the place burned down than yea, the discs are ashes and fumes. Not that tape, HDD, SDD,or USB thumb drive would have fared any better.

Yes, backups by RLiegh · 2016-08-26 05:54 · Score: 1

Lately I've been pulling stuff off of cds I burned 15, 16 years ago, no problems.

I use optical media many times per day. by waferbuster · 2016-08-26 05:58 · Score: 1

Currently I have a classic AOL free CD nestled under my coffee cup, protecting the table surface. For extra protection against liquids, I cover the center hole with scotch tape.

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I'm an individual! Just like everyone else!

Still use them by MoarSauce123 · 2016-08-26 06:05 · Score: 1

DVD-R/RW are dirt cheap and easy to use, plus they keep data for quite some time. They are also somewhat easily mailed although I am now tending more towards sending micro SD cards inserted into an adapter. The micro SD card itself is too likely to fall out of the envelope unless it is taped to a piece of paper. Most people I deal with have a desktop or laptop with optical drives. I would never buy a system that does not have an optical drive/burner (except for a tablet). The craze to eliminate a very versatile device that adds a few bucks and a wee bit of size to a device just makes no sense to me. And dealing with external drives is a pain in the rear.

Optical? Surely you jest. by undefinedreference · 2016-08-26 06:08 · Score: 1

I have been actively avoiding optical since the late 1990s and haven't put an optical drive in a computer I have built for myself since 2002. In fact, I haven't put one in any desktop I have built since 2010. Optical media is terrible for data storage, even tape makes more sense...

For that matter, I've been phasing out spinning hard disks for years. Sometime in 2009 is the last time I begrudgingly put a hard disk in a desktop. last time I ordered any was when I bought some enterprise-grade ones in 2013 for a file server. All my servers since then have exclusively used SSDs.

Not only is optical basically dead to me in regard to computers (very few drives exist anywhere in my company; I pull my old USB one out and hand it to someone about 2-3 times a year), but it is almost entirely dead for all entertainment media (I download or stream just about everything I watch these days). The blu-ray player isn't even connected to the TV anymore, it just sits in a cupboard collecting dust.

Solid state media is the future. Everything else is either for special use cases (tape - slow archival) or completely obsolete. Give it a couple more years and even cheap laptops will probably have SSDs, at which point HDDs will be forever dead.

Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by Immerman · 2016-08-26 06:28 · Score: 2

Ironically enough, write-once optical discs are lousy for archiving - the organic dyes need to be kept at a stable temperature away from moisture and sunlight in order to have a fair chance of remaining stable. And even then you're probably lucky to get 5-10 years without some data loss. And definitely don't use standard permanent/laundry markers on them - the acids in the ink rapidly break down the dyes, and your data with it.

Instead use rewritable media - your data is then stored in a phase-changing crystal and requires considerable energy input to change state. So long as you avoid damaging the disc itself, your data should be safe for a much longer time.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.

Re:Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by LinuxIsGarbage · 2016-08-26 07:32 · Score: 1

I've seen people say opposing things about CD-RWs, and I don't know what the truth is. Personally I haven't had any CD-RWs fail, even cheap no name ones that sit in the car through hot, cold, and humidity. I think most of their bad reputation came from using them with crappy packet writing formats.
I have seen OLD CD-RWs (that were sitting untouched for years) give errors when re-written, but that can be fixed by doing a full erase first, and a verify after.
Re:Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by Darinbob · 2016-08-26 08:40 · Score: 2

My headache has been the CD/DVD readers. As the speeds got faster they started having more and more problems reading pressed discs from many different sources, and the discs work fine on other readers.
Re:Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by Immerman · 2016-08-26 15:08 · Score: 1

They can also have issues with lower-quality drives - they offer dramatically lower contrast than dyes do, so the signal-to-noise ratio is much lower, to the point that many/most drives created before CD-RWs hit the market were unable to read them at all.
Personally, I've had lots of -Rs fail, don't think I've ever had issues with an -RW written in a standard single-session format. I seem to recall that the crystal actually needs to be heated to a few hundred degrees to change state - easy enough to do for a fraction of a second with a tightly focused laser beam, but not at ambient temperatures.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Re:Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by Reziac · 2016-08-27 04:39 · Score: 1

I wonder if it's that as readers got faster, they have less time to deal with errors from disks that were crap to start with, so errors that have been there all along are now causing visible issues.
I remember a study that found there were problems caused by writing CDs at slower speeds on hardware designed to write faster -- causing more write errors. I've always written disks at the fastest available speed, which might be why I never ran into that issue. (Tho I still have an old 4x unit should I ever run into it.)

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~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Re: Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by adolf · 2016-08-27 07:08 · Score: 1

As an informal study a million years ago, I tested a variety of CD-R media.
I put a bunch of them on the rear deck of my car, and left yhem there for a couple of Ohio years.
They worked fine.

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Kid-proof tablet..
Re: Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by Immerman · 2016-08-28 03:03 · Score: 1

Rear deck... the shelf behind the rear seats? Then they almost certainly weren't in direct sunlight, though they may have been heated nicely. Modern car windshields are pretty much universally designed to block UV rays, the high-energy wavelengths that cause most damage. Without that protection most of the plastic interior of the car would rapidly become brittle and crumbly within a few years, photodegradation is a major problem for plastics.
Still, you probably also got very lucky if you truly had no problems.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Re: Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by adolf · 2016-08-28 07:23 · Score: 1

First, things in cars do suffer from effects of UV, although the glass does slow this down. My current 21-year-old daily driver has plenty of plastics that are somewhat bleached from the sun, including the once-black carpet on the rear deck. (This, incidentally, is the same manufacturing year as the car that I tested with.)
Second, CD-R media back then was designed to be reactive principally with infrared light (because CDs themselves use IR), of which there was plenty. (I suspect that the dye formulations have shifted with the transition to the shorter red wavelength used by modern optical drives.)
Third, it is plain that IR was plentiful in this environment.
Fourth, it is plain that by your standard, almost zero optical media ever sees significant exposure to direct sunlight.
I don't have a dog in this race. It was simply a curiosity at the time: I'd heard that CD-R media hae a limited lifespan, so I subjected it to the most extreme environment I had at my disposal.
Media included Kodak archival with a gold reflective surface and an extra protective layer over the laquer, TDK Certified+ with a silver reflective surface, and a couple of varieties of store-branded media with the common aluminum surface.
Environment went from crazy-dry and bitter cold, to ridiculous hot and humid, with occasional condensation due to weather changes, and random chemicals and surfactants (from cleaning the window).
I also had a control group of the same data on the same media, stored properly indoors in jewel cases. These, unsurprisingly, also worked fine.
But yeah, I'm sure that it was luck. Or maybe that I made it all up, as if anyone gives a shit about a 650MB optical disk these days.

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Kid-proof tablet..
Re: Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by Immerman · 2016-08-28 08:00 · Score: 1

True, windows don't block 100% of UV, but they're usually in the high 99% range. Bleaching though - I don't think that's specifically a UV effect. Surprising that it wasn't an issue with the disks.
I stand by my luck assertion though - I've lost data from discs of most every brand over the years, as have most people I know. Some people just get lucky with such things. Me, I've only had two hard drives die on me in the last 30 years - and I'm still using drives from 15+ years ago, which also seems very unusual. Hey, the world is a big place. Statistical anomalies abound.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Re: Only SOME Optical Media Is Durable by adolf · 2016-08-28 08:28 · Score: 1

I blame a lot of my particular anomoly on writing all of these discs with a Plextor PR-820, which is still a thing that is somewhat revered in pro audio circles.
It was not at all inexpensive at the time.
At the time, there were lots of other drives that were just junk, with lots of folks experiencing incompatibility between burners, media, and various playback devices.
I never experienced any of that with the Plextor: Stuff just worked. Always. I tried hard to find combinations that didn't work, and failed.
I didn't have another optical drive to test with until the DVD-R became a thing, which is a whole different set of tradeoffs. Maybe the results would have been different. Impossible to repeat now.
I might opine that my burns were simply of better quality from the beginning. But I never tried to conduct such an experiment.

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Kid-proof tablet..

Still using BD-R by DarkEdgeX · 2016-08-26 06:28 · Score: 1

I use BD-R as a method of backing up my photography work as I hit certain quotas of data (obviously pointless to burn a BD if I don't have ~25GB waiting to burn to it). I do still buy Blu-ray movies (and lately the 4K UltraHD variants) mostly because a) I want to "own" the movies (even if the studios think they're only licensing the content to me), and b) I like to use tools like makemkv to rip the disc and store it on a hard drive collection of movies. At approximately 25-35GB per movie, it can get kind of large, but the picture quality is worth it.

Wondering how long it'll be before we can rip 4K UHD Blu-rays though. :/

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All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.

Around here by kilodelta · 2016-08-26 06:39 · Score: 1

We're all MacBook Pro's and Dell Latitude E7470's - neither of which come with an optical drive. I guess they do have USB ports so a 64GB stick would work. And we did order an external CD/DVD-RW unit. We do have servers with optical drives in them.

IDGI by Zeromous · 2016-08-26 07:01 · Score: 1

Ok, I have over a decade of experience working in archival, and another as professional sysadmin.

Day to day I don't use optical anymore, except for throwaway install support of older systems without useful usb drives.

That said, how does someone lose that much data as in summary after 4 years? BY ARCHIVING LIKE AN IDIOT.
It's okay to use optical as a straight up filesystem backup, but as soon as you introduce a depenency on the next disk to recover, you are fucked. NO ONE in backups does this. Each tape is a straight up HW compressed archive of the files, raw. No spanning. EVER. We will actually change a tape (well the robot will) and not fill the tape if a file is too big.

Last year I recovered 90% of data from a 10 year old 100 disk spindle provided by my old roommate. He lived in squalor, treated them like crap, exposed to all manner of temperatures. He used regular quality DVD-Rs and the failure rate was about 5% all told. Most disks were good. Many had a failure on a single file or two, which did not completely prevent me from recovering (think, a few frames of a Dragonball episode or something). Probably 2-3% of disks could not be read at all.

So my case basically is if you lose everything backing up to optical, you did it wrong.

That said, optical is trash and I'm glad its dead. It was good for its time, but now I think it TB, and 50 doesn't cut it.

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---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START

Cheaper to use 2.5" hard disks by rlk · 2016-08-26 07:36 · Score: 1

4TB 2.5" external hard disks go for about $120, and I bought one for about $100. That's $25-30/TB. Amazon sell 15x25GB archival-grade Blu-Ray disks for $67.50, which is $180/TB.

And not even that much more expensive to use SSD's (if you're worried about stiction) than archival-grade Blu-Ray disks. I'm seeing internal SSD's in the $240 range; USB3 enclosures are cheap. If you want it packaged, it's going to set you back a bit more, but still less than double the price of archival Blu-Rays.

i do by luther349 · 2016-08-26 07:48 · Score: 1

i use dvd-r for media backup as its price per gb is still far less then flash drives.

They're usually all from the same factory, anyway by CAOgdin · 2016-08-26 08:22 · Score: 1

When I've tracked branded CD/DVD/BluRay back to the source, I most often find branded products were all made in the same factory anyway, so why buy anything more expensive. And, yes, I still have DVDs and CDs from 10 or more years ago that are as fresh as the day they were made.

I still use it by jonwil · 2016-08-26 08:36 · Score: 1

I still use DVD for some movies and TV (things I want to own permanently, last thing I added to the collection was the whole series box set of Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis is on my wishlist as well) and the optical drive in my PC is useful as well both for installing software that comes on disk (e.g. I buy games at retail if they are cheaper than buying from digital store and those still come on disk for the most part) and for burning data to if I need to give it to someone (e.g. if I want to burn some photos and give them to someone permanently, a burnt DVD is the easy and cheap way to do that)

I wrote and used a CD the other day. by BenFenner · 2016-08-26 09:22 · Score: 1

I was setting up a brand new laptop for a client. It's a Dell with Wind7 Pro 64-bit but obviously came with the silly WIn10 installation media.
The plan was to install a new SSD in the laptop, and then get WIn7 back on there fresh with no bloatware (as you do).

After the SSD install, I tossed in a Dell-branded Win7 SP1 DVD I happen to have, and installed from there. However, the laptop is so new that the DVD did not contain any network drivers (typical) but surprisingly didn't include the proper chipset drivers either for the USB controllers/hubs/ports. I almost always have either network, or more typically the USB ports working after a Windows 7 install.

Without either of those, I was reduced to throwing some of the drivers on a write-able CD. Thankfully I still insist on recommending laptops with optimal drives. If the laptop had not come with an optical drive, and had I not had writable CDs laying around, I guess I would have taken the SSD out and plugged it into my desktop to transfer over the drivers...

I was not excited about having to write a CD, but at least it was an option.

As for DVDs, I write those ALL the time. =D

Re:Medical Imaging, Anyone? by antdude · 2016-08-26 10:03 · Score: 1

Yep, others and I still get them on discs too. :/

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Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).

I still have a stack of AOL floppies by slickwillie · 2016-08-26 10:21 · Score: 1

that I use for backups.

Also for watching movies. by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2016-08-26 12:06 · Score: 1

I use optical media for installs, too.

Also: They're handy for watching movies or collections of old TV shows from DVDs - especially at my ranch (where Internet is 32k-ish dialup if I didn't bring a cellphone modem from work) or on the road in the travel trailer.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way

Trade optical media tray for second HDD or Battery by yaznaz · 2016-08-26 12:17 · Score: 1

On my laptops, I find a second drive or additional battery much more useful then a optical drive, which is something I can always access from my desktop on the rare occasion when I need it - which I have't for last 5 years (including for bootable media requirements such as OS installations or BIOS upgrades). I still carry the swappable tray as in my laptop bag as a backup option. Just holding off on removing it totally like most things in my house that should have been pragmatically trashed long ago.

No, not really by Cimexus · 2016-08-26 12:28 · Score: 1

I haven't really used optical media at all in at least five years, now that I think about it. For general 'moving data about' purposes, cloud services (Google Drive/Dropbox etc.) or USB sticks work well. For backups, external hard drives (or internal hard drives placed into a NAS) are cheap and large enough now to be the best option, even though they too might fail (so don't have only one backup!)

I think the only time I ever use an optical drive now is when reformatting a machine or setting a new one up - on occasion I might want to DBAN the drive or use some other kind of recovery utility on a bootable CD/DVD that I burnt years ago and can't be bothered making a bootable USB for.

Only for boot purposes by Torin+Darkflight · 2016-08-26 14:24 · Score: 1

I still use optical media, but not for long-term data storage or transport. I primarily use DVD and CD to run bootable diagnostics, repair or cleanup tools (memtest86+, WinPE, DBAN, etc) and OS installation. I've long found booting from optical media to be far more reliable and supported than booting from USB, despite being significantly slower. Granted, USB boot support has improved, but I still periodically encounter systems that outright refuse to boot from USB, even with SecureBoot disabled. Besides, when running WinPE to clean up a potentially-infected computer, it's definitely beneficial to use read-only boot media.

Yes I do, but the media is getting worse. by ayesnymous · 2016-08-26 15:00 · Score: 1

It used to be that Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden were the 2 best brands of optical media. But the last 3 packs of Verbatim DVD+R discs all tested poorly in Nero CD-DVD Speed. So I had to buy the more expensive Taiyo Yuden. Those tested well, but supposedly the Taiyo Yudens aren't made in Japan anymore - they moved the production to China. (Mine were made in Japan.) So who knows if they'll be able to maintain the same quality.

Also, Taiyo Yuden doesn't make DVD+R DL discs. Verbatim supposedly made high quality DVD+R DL discs in Singapore, but a few years ago they moved production to UAE, and the reviews aren't very good for those.

I just got a BD-RE writer in a new laptop, and have no idea what a good brand for BD discs is. I haven't looked into it, as I don't have a need to burn BDs yet.

Develop installation media by tbuskey · 2016-08-27 00:38 · Score: 1

I develop a DVD to install Linux + Openstack on a system. We distribute as .iso and test as a physical DVD with instructions on burning on Win 7 w/ the included isoburn. Some customers can use iDrac/iLo/IPMI to mount the .iso for install or convert the .iso to a USB stick to boot that. Not all BIOS can and they're all different. We leave that up to the clueful users and lead the neophytes down the easy path with a burned .iso. I've found that burning an ISO takes less time than ubootin. On that note, is there a way to verify the DVD matches the .iso? We md5 the .iso, but the isoburn verify doesn't really verify :-( It needs to be on Windows & distributable too.

The Route 605 what? by jabberw0k · 2016-08-27 02:15 · Score: 1

< rant natured="good" > Apparently (I've asked a few folks) "the 605" is short for "the 605 *Freeway*" Yet if you say "the Main Street Bridge" you mean, the bridge on Main Street. If you say "the Main Street six-lane street" you mean "the part of Main Street that is a six-lane street." So I hear "the 605 Freeway" as "the part of Interstate 605 which is a limited-access highway ('freeway'), but because Interstates by definition are entirely limited-access, that's all of it, so what are you talking about?" You wouldn't say "Get your kicks on 'the' 66" would you? Why not just say you are on 605 North? No redundant "the" required. </rant>

I once drove to San Diego and wound up spending an hour extra in traffic, gone too far because I was told to exit at "the 125" so obviously I was looking for Interstate 125. However, they meant California 125. I never expected a regular road to be called "the Number" so I was looking for the red-and-blue Interstate shield. Thus:

Serious question: Would you, or would you not, actually call U.S. Route 66 (on one of its "Main Street" style sections) "the 66" or do you really only call limited-access highways "the" --?

Re:The Route 605 what? by sexconker · 2016-08-27 06:54 · Score: 1

Route 66 is special and you know it. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone call a "Route" "the". The same goes for CA 125 or any other CA. People call those "California ". Whoever told you "the 125" fucked up.

Yes, as a media source, and a secondary backup by PCeye · 2016-08-27 05:15 · Score: 1

I still use optical media, but much less so than before.

For audio and video media, CD and DVD are my first choice, but as a means to an end. I have several used disc sources, and a couple of local stores still selling new material. It becomes an automatic backup once I rip the discs to the file format needed, but the media itself is infrequently used once on my file server.

DVD+/-R and BD-Rs became secondary backup sources. USB hard drives are much more convenient, but I'll additionally burn valuable data to blu-ray, periodically testing the discs for readability.

With a Gigabit+wireless AC network at home, I have little need for optical media for everyday use. An external USB optical drive for my laptop is more than sufficient for the odd need. I'll litter available desktop PC slots with optical drives.

Only for music by AntEater · 2016-08-27 12:53 · Score: 1

Until we can get full lossless music download in flac or something similar, I'll be sticking with optical media. If you have good hearing, a decent stereo and care, the compression artifacts in mp3/aac/ogg can be very distracting.

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Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....

BD-R: cheapest per GB and easily preserved by nctritech · 2016-08-28 01:44 · Score: 1

If you do some quick math, you'll see that cheap 25GB (really 23.2GB) BD-R 50-packs have a significantly lower cost per gigabyte than any hard drive. When you realize that you need TWO hard drives instead of one due to the many ways a hard drive can fail unexpectedly and lose everything (even when that drive is an "on the shelf" "cold storage" unit) then the advantages become even greater.

As long as you choose a good quality large capacity CD wallet, put the discs in it properly, and store it in a dry climate-controlled area and are gentle with the CD wallet, the discs practically last forever. For large amounts of infrequently accessed data and for regular backups, it's hard to beat the BD-R discs.

Of course, the big disadvantage is that Blu-ray drives are rare and you essentially have to buy your own if you want one, but that's a simple one-time investment in an external desktop-sized burner which can be plugged into any computer you own now or in the future.

Optical certainly by MercTech · 2016-08-28 04:00 · Score: 1

Why would someone own a computer with no ability to use shared cheap media? Seriously, until the cost of a thumb drive is measured in cents instead of dollars; the optical media is here to stay. It comes down to being able to share data in a durable format.

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NRRPT/RCT

Used for commercial machines by RatchetDriver · 2016-08-28 08:03 · Score: 1

I carry a folder full of DVD's and a few BD's in order to occasionally re-image the computers I service. Sometimes it's easier for an IT department to request an engineer go out and do this rather them dial in to fix a fault. That way they get a clean copy of the os and applications as it was built on a master machine somewhere. It's pretty rare for important files to be stored locally, so this approach makes sense.
Sometimes the machines don't have a DVD drive (and never a BD one) or it has one but it's so ancient it doesn't work, or it's a CD drive, which is no good. For this I carry a drive around with me.

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Nothing to see here. Move along.

M-Disc by bscott · 2016-08-28 14:48 · Score: 1

I've been using Millenata MODISC for backing up my wife's tens of thousands of pics of the kids. Outside of our normal backup processes, about once a year I get a box of discs (not cheap but affordable) and pull off all of the past year's photos, then I tuck them into a fireproof safe and leave it under our deck. (I'm trying to protect against fire and theft more than anything else)

I also spot-check older discs and the ones from 4 years ago, when I started, are still readable. The discs are said to last 1000 years and I'll be happy with 2% of that...

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Perfectly Normal Industries

No, doesn't last by Not-a-Neg · 2016-08-29 02:30 · Score: 1

I gave up on optical as a backup method when CDs I had burned back in the mid-90's on archive grade discs stopped working. Even with entertainment products (music, movies, TV shows) I immediately backup the discs to a file server for long term storage. At this point there is no optical format capable of storing enough data to suit my needs. For added protection of non-replaceable content like photos I post them to online services like Facebook, Google+, and Amazon Photos.

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-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!

Absolutely by Wolfrider · 2016-08-29 17:23 · Score: 1

--Some people may want optical to die out, but I think that's premature. I still use it a lot -- all of my PCs, laptops and servers have optical drives. (Not necessarily hooked up for security on the servers, but at least available if needed.)

--Creating a reliable USB-based boot media is still something of a black art, it seems to be different for every distro; altho System Rescue CD is pretty easy. Optical is cheap and Just Works 99.98% of the time. The media is cheap enough to give away or only use once if needed (altho I do try to use R/W media for that) and if you get a bad burn or you use it enough that it wears out, you can just burn another one.

--I do a lot of Linux installs and lately have been doing Disaster Recovery tests (bare-metal restores) to VMs and new drives. Years ago, I took the time to learn how to burn from the Linux command line, and most of my stuff is burned right from Linux with scripts; Torrent ISO downloads coupled with ZFS has been doing a great job of keeping the ISOs from bitrotting. Burning the recovery-environment ISO is dead easy since I have spare media, and I don't have to spend $$ for a reliable high-speed USB thumbstick or three to re-use for that purpose.

--Yes, a good USB3 thumbstick is faster. But in my experience, optical is easier, as long as you buy good media -- I buy and recommend Taiyo Yuden wherever possible. You have to buy specialized models of USB thumbstick if you want to block Writes, and quality on some drives is iffy; Optical is write-once by default unless you go out of your way (not finalizing the disc, packet writing, using RW media.) So yes, I intend to keep using optical because it meets my needs.

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== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??

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