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Japan Goes Public With Brexit Demands, Says Data Flow Deals Must Be Protected (arstechnica.com)
Kelly Fiveash, writing for ArsTechnica:UK Prime minister Theresa May said at the weekend that she wanted to take her time to secure the best trade deals for a post-Brexit Britain, and reiterated -- in her trademark vague terms -- that the so-called Article 50 won't be triggered this year. But political pressure from governments as far away as Japan continues to mount. On Sunday, in a bold move, the Japanese government published a 15-page memo setting out a number of demands it wants the UK to adhere to, once it leaves the European Union. It underscored that Britain faces a torrid time of negotiations -- not just with member states in the EU, but further afield, too. Japan, which has close economic ties with the UK, listed its demands based on requests from businesses in the country. It said; "It is of great importance that the UK and the EU maintain market integrity and remain attractive destinations for businesses where free trade, unfettered investment, and smooth financial transactions are ensured." It's brutal stuff from Japan, and could well lead to other countries making similarly robust demands. On tech specifically, the Japanese government called on the UK and EU, post-Brexit, to maintain cloud agreements between businesses at an international level, by safeguarding the "free transfer of data."
... invoke Article 50 first, leave, and then we will talk about special trade deals. You voted to leave, so leave already.
Fuck the working class, let's make money for ourselves by lowering everyone's standard of living to the lowest possible.
Half of Japan's investments into EU have gone into Britain, seeing as a gateway to the EU. Now they are scared shitless that they have bet on the wrong horse. EU tariffs on cars and other products produced in GB means all those factories were built on the wrong side of the channel.
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave!
Well, looks like we're seeing what the Globalist response is going to be. The UK will be made an example of because they dared go against the Globalist agenda. I wouldn't expect any other countries to leave the EU, even if they want to. No matter what the benefits to a country who wanted to leave may be, they'll know they'll be treated poorly by the rest of the Globalist elite out of pure spite.
I keep reading this 'the old' stuff. Are people aware that these same 'old' will be the people who voted into it in the 1970s? And will, in fact, be the only people who have seen the evolution of the whole situation?
I've noticed that the have rather poor memories or simply weren't paying attention. Here are the 1975 campaign leaflets:
http://www.harvard-digital.co....
All this crap about "we weren't told it was a political union" is nonsense, it was a major part of the campaign and the stated goal of the whole thing.
If we can delay by 5 years enough people will have died to swing a second vote the other way. Maybe the next general election will serve.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Leaving the EU was a huge mistake. The old, who voted for it out of xenophobia, will be dead by the time we will feel the consequences.
That's what this generation of old people do. This generation - not the previous ones. Previous generations of old people tried their level best to be more like wise elders and guiding lights, repositories of wisdom that the youngers would have been utterly foolish to disregard.
What you describe in the EU is in the same spirit as what is happening in the USA. Look what the Baby Boomers have done to their grandchildren. In American history they are the first generation to leave their descendants with LESS than they enjoyed. Every previous generation has done its best to leave an inheritance, to ensure their posterity enjoyed a better life than what they knew.
I don't know if the aftermath and long-term repercussions of WWII just broke their spirits and made them into fearful self-centered short-sighted self-important ever-entitled people, or what, but it's one of the saddest things I've witnessed.
Dear Japan, thank you for your offer. Upon consideration, we are not interested, but our door is always open in case you'd like to provide another offer. Until then, cheers! UK
Can I make demands too?
I hereby demand that post-Brexit that the UK, through the BBC, continue to produce and distribute Doctor Who and that they continue to air such fine non-BBC-produced series such as Look Around You (2002, 2005).
Speaking of demands related to works of fiction, I wonder what the philosophers of Adams's fictional Cruxwan University (not the one in Laos with a Facebook page, although that one may also be fictional) would demand in a situation like this? A continued absence of solid facts perhaps?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
People in the UK should make national sovereignty decisions to benefit Japan, I guess. Hasn't that been the problem all along -- citizens of the UK being told that everyone's input about their country matters except their own? Do it for the migrants, the refugees, the Japanese, the big international bankers, the transplanted people from other EU countries, and the rich businessmen in London -- they matter, not you, or your family, or your friends and neighbors.
So, being part of a huge bureaucracy managed from afar is a good thing? You must be one of those who loves the idea of Imperial Washington as well?
Everything should be decided by bureaucrats because people don't know better.
We bureaucrats in Brussels think that too much cinamon is bad for you. Therefore you Christmas snackies must be outlawed.
We (the all-wise, all-knowing bureaucrats) also know that consumption of raw milk products is dangerous therefore you (french, italian, spanish, communities that have been making raw milk cheeses are now declared to be WRONG and OLD FASHIONED. And any production of such products will now be ILLEGAL. Because, we, the all-knowing, all-wonderful bureaucrats know how best for you to live your lives.
Anybody who doesn't want to live under our enlightened rule are [fill in the blank].
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
bollox..... thanks not as clever a thought as you think, in fact its downright stupid
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Leaving the EU was a huge mistake. The old, who voted for it out of xenophobia, will be dead by the time we will feel the consequences.
Yes, because having unelected bureaucrats deciding what's best for your country and waiving sovereign rights to them is an even better idea! The entire state of the EU at this point is anti-democratic. Then again, I suppose if the "remain" camp especially all those entitled whiny millennials really wanted to remain, they would have gotten up off their asses and actually voted. But they didn't, which is why they had the lowest turnout.
Om, nomnomnom...
you've just shone a light on your profound ignorance
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Remember when Brexit was going to cause worldwide economic collapse, terrorism all across the EU and collapse of society and cannibalism on the streets of the UK?
No
All that happened in the end was a bunch of sniveling and crying from foreigners.
We are far from the "end". It is yet to be determined whether we will completely leave the EU or whether we will nominally leave it but remain a "special realationship" where we are subject to some aspects of EU law and get some of the benefits of EU membership.
Once we actually know what is going to happen then the buisnesses will be able to decide whether it is viable to continue serving Europe from the UK or whether to move their European HQs across the channel.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
You voted to leave, so leave already.
The problem with this is that we did not vote to leave. Several large regions of the country voted to remain and even worse than that several million British citizens living outside the UK were denied a vote altogether. In any modern democracy major constitutional change such as leaving the EU requires a majority in all regions and all citizens have the right to vote. This is particularly poignant in this case because many of those citizens living outside the UK are living elsewhere in the EU and would in all probability voted overwhelmingly in favour of remaining.
Yeah, but at least we Took Back Control and are free to be bossed around be the whole world instead of just the EU!
The problem with globalism is that it forces wealth-building countries to partner with non wealth-building countries.
Countries become first world nations by allowing their citizens to build and keep wealth. This requires layers of legal system to protect the citizens: laws for safety (protections against rape/murder/theft), property ownership (you can't build on or farm or mine my property), enforcing contracts (I did the work, you must pay), and easy access to business creation (separation of personal assets, &c).
Thus, Nigerians can't build wealth because any warlord would come along and take it.
Thus, circa 1995 it took Kentucky Fried Chicken 7 years of paperwork to open its first chicken outlet in India. India at that time was a 3rd-world nation. (Business creation was onerous.)
For comparison, at that same time, Hong Kong had a huge proportion of the world trade. Hong Kong had no resources, no population workforce to speak of, but easy access to business creation.
There must be little or no corruption for this to work, and this is a frequently overlooked detail. You can't protect the citizens if the police can be paid off, you can't have contract protection if the judge can be paid off, and so on.
If the UK partners with Germany or Norway, wealth building is roughly equal and the economic rationalization holds. A UK worker can reasonably expect to go to Germany to work and build wealth, a German can move to the UK and do the same.
When the UK partners with Poland or Greece, workers from those countries come to the UK, but UK workers can't reciprocate. No one can build wealth in those countries because of corruption in their systems. All the accrued wealth flows from the UK into those countries and is wasted.
The same is true with the US. Partner with Japan, and both countries will benefit: larger total workforce to draw from, more economic opportunities for both sides, and so on. The economic rationalization holds. When the US partners with Mexico or China, all the wealth flows into those countries and is wasted.
Consider: China builds entire cities which go to waste, they spent enormous amounts of capital building the olympic stadium (as did Greece), and none of these has any inherent value. All this money doesn't go to the people, it goes to the government and is wasted. For all the Chinese people that the US has pulled out of poverty, none of it is permanent. If the US pulled out of China over the course of 10 years, the Chinese people would go back to abject poverty.
This is the inherent lie of globalization. The economic rationalization works if both sides allow wealth building, but this is a required assumption that isn't always met. When one side doesn't allow wealth building, the poor countries drag the rich ones down to their level, and everyone is miserable.
Yeah, but at least we Took Back Control and are free to be bossed around be the whole world instead of just the EU!
The UK got out of the EU before it lost all of its wealth. Taking control allows you to pick-and-choose who to partner with, and who not to.
Look to Germany about 10 years from now to see how well they do by partnering with all the non-wealth-building nations on the continent.
I think you'll appreciate the Brexit quite a bit by then.
Leaving the EU was a huge mistake.
Nobody has left yet: the UK is still a member. The biggest mistake so far has been appointing Johnson as foreign secretary. That makes the team leading the country May, Hammond and Johnson and as we all know from Top Gear the team just doesn't work without Clarkson as the recent "China Special" has showed.
I think Japan's point is that they built a bunch of factories and local headquarters in the UK specifically to deal with the European market. That was the big selling point. With the UK no longer being part of the European market Japan is understandably unhappy. So they give the UK two options:
1. The UK makes sure that Japan doesn't lose much by staying there. That means trade with the EU must work as if the UK were still a member. That means a huge free trade agreement needs to be secured ASAP.
2. A lot of Japanese companies will abandon their UK factories and headquarters and build new ones on the continent because staying in the UK is no longer financially sound. The UK loses a whole bunch of jobs and tax income and the Japanese companies lose a whole bunch of sunk money. Nobody wants this scenario.
Of course scenario 1 is hindered by the fact that the EU isn't keen on making trade agreements with a leaving member before the member has even left. So they're pushing for the UK to just invoke Article 50 already so things can get started.
tl;dr: Yes, the door is open - for Japanese companies to leave the UK. If you want to avoid that you'll have to convince them that trade with the EU won't be impacted by Brexit.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Yeah, but at least we Took Back Control and are free to be bossed around be the whole world instead of just the EU!
The Japanese "demands" are nothing more that what a lot of us knew would happen. If the UK leaves the EU a lot of foreign companies will relocate their infrastructure back into the EU. The Japanese can demand all they want but it seems increasingly likely that this unelected PM and her cabinet will drag the UK into an economic dark age simply to control immigration based on the result on an undemocratic vote which excluded millions of UK citizens. Frankly all that remaining part of the single market will do is make it less urgent.
The Japanese are just hoping the UK will go this route because it will make it less painful for them to relocate but at this point I would be astounded if any company manufacturing goods for the EU market locates any new projects in the UK regardless of whether it remains or leaves the single market: why take the risk of the UK changing its mind and leaving completely when you do not have to?
Leaving the EU was the right move for anybody with even an ounce of self-respect.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
We (the all-wise, all-knowing bureaucrats) also know that consumption of raw milk products is dangerous therefore you (french, italian, spanish, communities that have been making raw milk cheeses are now declared to be WRONG and OLD FASHIONED. And any production of such products will now be ILLEGAL.................
Of course the fact that no such prohibition exists probably won't stop you from repeating it, will it?
There are some rules with regards raw milk cheese mainly that it has to be produced in a clean environment and it has to be labeled as being produced with raw milk. All of which seems pretty sensible to me.
But don't let me get in the way of a nice rant, try using more caps.
What a rotten party, have we run out of beer or something?
The old are more apt to become jaded because they gloss over critical differences in details when something is tried again, but the young are easily mislead into thinking the old is new and better because they weren't there the first (second/third/fourth) time it was tried. Both can be misleading.
The production of products using raw milk is not illegal in the EU. They are authorized with some very reasonable stipulations concerning the health of the animals producing the raw milk, labeling the product and making sure the conformity of the milk is consistent.
References:
http://www.eurosurveillance.or...
http://slowfood.com/slowcheese...
In what way is it anti-democratic? People in the EU vote for their MEPs. They also vote for their national Governments who then send representatives to the Council of Ministers. Between them they are the legislature of the EU.
It is actually more democratic than the UK with its completely unelected House of Lords. And you do know that the UK is also run by unelected bureaucrats, in the form of 500,000 civil servants who do all the day-to-day work.
Which unelected bureaucrats decide in the EU? You have the council of ministers, who are elected, you have the EU commission, which is probably what you refer to, and then you have the European Parliament, elected, that actually decide what becomes law and what not, and which, incidentally, also needs to approve the EU commission from even being formed. The process of becoming a commisioner is a bit sketchy, but power is limited and checks and balances are in place.
Compare that with the British "democracy". It has a government that is 'selected' to do the job by a party that has typically no more than 30% of the vote of the country but for some reason has the deciding vote. This government of unelected bureaucrats, backed by a minority of the population, is now determined to make a major change in its relation with its neighbours and its economy based on a single opinion poll that they decided to hold. They will ostensibly not go through a parliamentary vote to start this process, side-stepping the legislative body completely and throwing what remained of the British democracy out of the window. And then there's the House of Lords.
The UK has obviously voted against democracy. They will now be ruled by their betters.
Such rants (complete with all-capitals) have been appearing in the tabloid press for decades. It looks like their persistence paid off.
Yes, it has occurred to us. Except they can't solve the problem they want to solve.
The imaginary decline of the UK that people love to hate wasn't so much a shift out of the country but a power shift from manufacturing to banking. That's not an EU problem that's a western world problem experienced by countries all over. It was very much the result of Thatcherism and mismanagement, it was a shift away from resources which were no longer demanded by the west but rather the east which could get them cheaper from more local sources like Australia.
The entire vote was based on xenophobia with the thought that as soon as Article 50 is triggered we get to kick out everyone that isn't white and who doesn't put milk in their tea. These reactions are being experienced by local English born people as much as immigrants. .... Except that won't happen. About the best they can hope to achieve with the EU are similar deals like Norway, all the horrible things like movement of labour but without any of the benefits of actually being a member of the EU and having a say, and currently most EU countries are pissed off enough that they think the UK shouldn't even get that good of a deal, as the UK is seen as the spoilt brat of the EU which has had everything handed to them and done nothing but cause problems as a result.
Speaking of free trade, there was a part of the vote that was based on not wanting to meet EU regulations. The one that the Brexiter's loved to advertise was that there was 104 regulations on pillows (lie, there is only one). Except now that we get to leave we don't need to meet all those damn EU requirements for pillows right? I mean all the pillow companies will now manufacture and control two different product lines, one for locals and one for the EU, because economies of scale is conspiracy theory right?
The UK had a lot of power to fix problems from with the EU. I hope their cowards way-out bites them in the ass.
I was wondering about this the other day.
On age, at a population level, young voted in, old voted out.
On education, at a population level, people with degrees voted in, people without voted out.
Is there any evidence that old people with degrees voted in too?
That the breakdown of voting amongst both age groups with or without degrees was any different?
Just that due to the devaluation of a university degree over the past two decades, there are a lot lot more 'young' people with a degree than old ones. So the age bias may account for the education bias.
I'm curious, because amongst my 'old' friends with degrees the voting broke down on gender lines, not educational ones. The men all voted out, the women all voted in. The women all shouted at the men, the men sat there going, "what the fuck woman?"
So is there a breakdown of voting by education that controls for age?
Local politicians have a vested interest to use the EU as a scapegoat, to deflect blame. Having done this for decades will eventually result in something like the Brexit. Yet, all economic research indicates the UK benefited from the EU. But of course it did not shelter it from other consequences of globalization.
Like in the US many good manufacturing jobs were lost. Yet, to think that the UK's fate would have been more successfully outside the EU is rather foolish. There's no way back to the glory days of the British empire.
My mistake. I was in France in the late 1990s and this was a big concern,
Still the point remains. An all-powerful centralized state is not good.
The point of the caps was to mock those who desire centralized control. An homage, if you will to Stalin, Mao and other perfect states.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
2. Is the UK not allowed to create trade agreements with the EU countries?
Well, the UK already has trade agreements with the EU countries. Until/unless Article 50 is invoked those remain and any renegotiation will be done as a group.
Invoking Article 50 specifically triggers negotiations seeking an agreement. It's not illegal for the agreement to be reached on the first Thursday following invocation, it's just rather very unlikely.
My mistake. I was in France in the late 1990s and this was a big concern,
Such an easy mistake to make, oh well.
Still the point remains. An all-powerful centralized state is not good.
Yes, I remember being in Russia in the late 1917s and this was a big concern
The point of the caps was to mock those who desire centralized control. An homage, if you will to Stalin, Mao and other perfect states.
And you really nailed it too!
What a rotten party, have we run out of beer or something?
It's brutal stuff from Japan, and could well lead to other countries making similarly robust demands. On tech specifically, the Japanese government called on the UK and EU, post-Brexit, to maintain cloud agreements between businesses at an international level, by safeguarding the "free transfer of data."
Japan wants to use the Internet. That's really brutal all right.
Send the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to the G20 Summit to demand details from the UK. The data must flow...
Posting to undo mismod.
Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
The reality is a two tier EU with France/Germany doing the ruling for the benefit of the richer core countries and the rest being reduced to perpetual bankruptcy and a source of cheap labor for the core countries. Greece being the prime example.
When the data flow stops...
...All eyes will turn to the Brexis. The Baron and the Emperor himself will be forced to deal with us.
Apropos... Barons are from Germany, and Emperors are from Japan... Kismet?
Definition of "undemocratic vote" - any election the left looses.
This vote was not an election and it was loosed upon us by the right so your definition is completely irrelevant.
This was a nationwide one-person one-vote plebiscite. Why is that not compatible with a democracy?
If it had been a one-citizen one-vote plebiscite you would have had an argument but it was not. Millions of citizens were excluded from voting because they lived in the rest of the EU i.e. for exercising one of the major benefits of EU membership. How do you think a plebiscite on cancelling the highest income tax bracket would go if the only people who got to vote were those in the top bracket?
As an American, I should appreciate the value of gaining independence from a far-off country who taxes you with a less than desired level of legislative representation. But the truth is the American revolution is as unlike the UK/EU situation as you can get. The UK paid some nominal fees in order to have unfettered travel and trade with the European continent. Brexit is going to completely fuck up the UK economy along with many other major world economies. The Japanese aren’t going to sit back and just watch this happen, and the truth is that the rest of the world’s major governments should speak up as well.
When you say "huge bureaucracy", did you know that the whole EU is much smaller than many local councils in the UK?
You must think that the British government is terrible.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You noted the part about the Junker and co? When they said they didn't care what the MEP's said, they were going to do it regardless and they stated they had the power to do it? CETA being just one example. Those checks and balances are so flimsy that it's a giant clusterfuck.
The UK has obviously voted against democracy. They will now be ruled by their betters.
You heard it here first. The will of the people of a nation, deciding to remain sovereign. Is anti-democracy. Are you also at war with Eastasia?
Om, nomnomnom...
There's no way back to the glory days of the British empire.
You are clearly not a Conservative.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
BREXIT - It is what happens when you give uneducated idiots the vote.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
The same people that want to remain 'sovereign' have completely forgotten to vote a majority into parliament that agrees with them. So now the UK government does exactly what you blame Junker on: they don't care what their MP's say, they are going to do it regardless and state that they have the power to do it. In contrast with Junker, who has no power without the backing of the council of ministers and can be easily obstructed by the European parliament, they can actually do it.
There's a good reason to have a representative democracy, and not a direct democracy. In a representative democracy the ones that are voted in are on the hook for figuring out how to implement decisions. In a direct democracy, as we're witnessing in the UK, the people vote one way, and everyone is now scratching their head to figure out what it means and how to do it. The preferred way seems to involve working around the democratic institutions.
So here we have the situation where a direct democracy is at odds with the representative democracy. You are saying that the former takes precedence? Ready to disband parliament and do legislation through referendum? Good luck with that.
You mean councils that can do whatever they want? Where individual countries like Germany or France can impose rules against everyone else? The house of lords when working properly is a bulwork against the parliament. The problem in the UK right now is it's been packed with favorites, something that was never happen.
So who voted in Junker?
Om, nomnomnom...
Really? So how is it that you vote in a majority into parliament when your voting block counts for under 10% of the total? The difference between the two of course is that you can go up to your MP's house and yell at them. Not happening with Junker, or MEP's, or the council of unelected ministers. Because we already know that obstruction sure worked well when the MEP's and so on said "No the council can't be allowed to turn on each nations printing press and print as much cash as it wants." Which the central council went on and gave them the right to do anyway, by their own authority.
The current state is neither direct or representative democracy. Saying it is, doesn't make it so. It's more along the lines of of a voting plutocracy.
Om, nomnomnom...