Apple Explores the Idea Of Killing Headphone Jack On the MacBook Pro (thenextweb.com)

Less than two weeks after Apple unveiled its headphone jack-less iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus, the company is already exploring the idea of doing the same on its flagship computing lineup. An anonymous reader shares a report on The Next Web: Apple might be going all-in with the wireless revolution as the company is now allegedly considering killing the headphone jack on the MacBook Pro. Users are reporting that as of recently Apple has been asking them to fill in a survey about the way they use their MacBook Pro and one of the questions pertains particularly to the headphone jack. Shared by Blake A. via Twitter, the question reads "Do you ever use the headphone port on your MacBook Pro with Retina display?", suggesting Apple is exploring going jackless with its laptops in the future. Given the Cupertino company just ditched the audio jack on the iPhone 7, the change is likely to eventually come to other Apple products too -- the real question is when.Several Slashdot readers have also confirmed that they have participated in a similar survey with some noting that Apple also asked them about the removable of headphone jack on some of its other computing lineup including the iMac.

Comments

Jesus, Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

When we say your fanbois are jacking off all over your wares you weren't supposed to take it literally. wtf

Re:Jesus, Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

>"pro" product
>removing a port that's been on nearly every single product the company's sold starting with the Apple II

That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them.

Re:Jesus, Apple

[stealth_finger]

So how is this one about space saving/battery/waterproofing/anything other than flogging wireless (beats) shit.

Re:Jesus, Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

I love all the attempts to claims this is a brave move designed to benefit the user rather than a money making decision. This is pure and simple another way of locking i-sheep into having to buy more products which need to be licenced.

Re:Jesus, Apple

[TechyImmigrant]

>"pro" product

>removing a port that's been on nearly every single product the company's sold starting with the Apple II

I'll consider it a pro product when they add an XLR input with phantom power.

Re:Jesus, Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

I initially read the summary "Apple is exploring going jackass with its laptops in the future."

Re:Jesus, Apple

[dgatwood]

Considering Apple dropped the audio input because nobody was using it, I wouldn't hold my breath. Besides, I wouldn't trust Apple to build a high-end audio interface to save their lives. They'd spend all their time making the enclosure look pretty, while trying to convince us that the audio jacks only break because we're yanking the cords wrong.

Re: Jesus, Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

They should explore killing off the Mac Pro, iMac, and Mac mini, because those products are a joke in today's market.

Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Getting rid of the headphone jack on all Apple's products will be suicide for them.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

And 640K of memory is enough for anyone.

Re:Apple's suicide

[nitehawk214]

You greatly overestimate the intelligence of fanboys.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, how exactly are musicians going to connect to their kit? Pretty sure most audio equipment uses standard jacks.

Unless Apple include an external dongle thing, which would look ridiculous.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

641K is greater than 640K.

Nothing is greater than the headphone jack tho. It is a mature and correct tech.

Remember, all headphones, from thirty cents to three grand, are analog. Any digital jack forces every headset to solve the DAC issue anew.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

What they already use. A usb or thunderbolt dac/adc.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

My current headphones need to be inserted just right into the jack, else the left ear stops working.

It may be mature, but it sure isn't flawless.

Re:Apple's suicide

[ranton]

Getting rid of the headphone jack on all Apple's products will be suicide for them.

Yes, just like when Apple removed the serial port, parallel port, 5.25" floppy drive, 3.5" floppy drive, VGA port, Ethernet port, and when they introduced the lightning connector. After all of that, I'm sure getting rid of the headphone jack will be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Falconhell]

You greatly overestimate their technical competance. I know of a number of "Pro" sound engineers who have blown more than one iphone audio output by plugging in jack-xlr with phantom power on the channel.
And Muso's are far worse than them with tech, especially guitarists, who dont understand cause and effect.

Re:Apple's suicide

[blackomegax]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality. The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

Re: Apple's suicide

[zwarte piet]

enter the bluetooth headphone receiver. I'm sure some Chinese can crank these out for $3

Re: Apple's suicide

[zwarte piet]

or an off the shelf usb soundcard.

Re:Apple's suicide

[oh_my_080980980]

False comparison. Keep at it ass-hole.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

But much better than any digital version where instead of just half of it not working, the whole damn thing quits because of one bad pin...

Re: Apple's suicide

[MachineShedFred]

which is $3 we will be paying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and deliver less audio quality than what we had before.

Removing the phono jack from a notebook computer is a solution looking for a problem.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

My company, and me personally, do not buy mac books because they lack ethernet jacks. We're also not alone. It has cost them, just like this will.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Removing the phono jack from a notebook computer is a solution looking for a problem.

It's a problem looking for acceptance as a solution.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. This is Apple trying to validate their own stupidity by doubling down on it.

Re:Apple's suicide

[leptons]

I imagine Apple will also be removing the headphone jack from the iPod. That will be hilarious.

Re:Apple's suicide

[ranton]

False comparison. Keep at it ass-hole.

The only thing false about the comparison is this time they have upped the ante a little. I would have said the same when they made most peripherals obsolete by introducing the lightning connector. I see no reason why Apple users who put up with all of the changes I mentioned will suddenly jump ship now. They may lose a few audiophiles, but not many.

I dislike Apple primarily because there aren't enough options when they decide to get rid of something I like. In the Windows world similar changes often happen, but I have the option of going with a different manufacturer if I'm not ready for the change yet. You give up that control in the Apple ecosystem.

Re:Apple's suicide

[ranton]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality.

The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

History never repeats itself, but it often rhymes. I certainly agree this situation is unique in its own way, just like most of the changes I mentioned. But the one constant will be Apple users who gave up their desire to choose for themselves a long time ago. In the Windows / Android world progress can be just as messy, but you have plenty of other options if you don't like what Dell / Lenovo / Samsung are doing.

Anyone who stayed with Apple after the lightning connector change will stay with Apple after this, save a very small (and vocal) minority.

Re: Apple's suicide

[SirSlud]

musicians have audio interfaces that don't use the jack in the first place

Re:Apple's suicide

[sir-gold]

You think it's suicide, because you have only seen Phase 1.

Phase 2 is to lock down all bluetooth audio using DRM so the BT headphone/speakers companies have to pay a fee to be Apple Compatible.

Re:Apple's suicide

[phayes]

True audiophiles were already using external DACs anyway like my professional musician friend friend who uses them to hookup sound systems instead of using the noisy DACs included in PCs/Macs.

Re: Apple's suicide

[phayes]

Funny how many Macs one sees when spending time at Cisco headquarters in Paris. Whether it's locals or people brought in from the USA to present new tech the majority use rMBPs, those that don't use Dells/HP's that use dongles too without it being an issue.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Only apple is using the lightning connector and without 3.5 sound port they can add drm to the sound (you are not allowed to listen to this please call 555 6787 for a license)

Re:Apple's suicide

[phayes]

The what?

Take a look at iPod sales over the past few years. They're history in a few years anyway.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

My 2012'MBP has an Ethernet port. I use it everyday. Fuck wireless.

Re: Apple's suicide

[netsavior]

so the solution is to use the one USB port to connect a hub, then you connect your audio dongle and your ethernet dongle, then use your displayport dongle to connect to the projector, which is of course HDMI.

So majestic, a ball of wires connected to a unibody! Of course your battery will last all day! So no need to plug it in! such convenience.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

I imagine Apple will also be removing the headphone jack from the iPod. That will be hilarious.

I could imagine that for this particular product it might loose them some sales, especially for the lower priced iPods, but there is no reason why they couldn't do it. The only iPod variant that does not have Bluetooth (AFAIK) is the Nano and if one can cram Bluetooth into a SD card offering a Nano with Bluetooth should not be hard. All of this is assuming that the iPod line won't go the way of the dinosaurs.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality. The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

You sound like one of those guys around the turn of the century who postulated that digital cameras will never displace film cameras.

Re: Apple's suicide

[jmccue]

If it was not for the bloated software written now, 640K probably would be enough :)

But, on my T420 there are no head phone jacks, just USB. That machine is 4 or 5 years old, so what is the big deal ? It is not like they are the first one to do that.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Grishnakh]

It has cost them, just like this will.

Judging by their financial reports, it doesn't look like it's cost them at all.

Re: Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

You greatly overestimate their technical competance. I know of a number of "Pro" sound engineers who have blown more than one iphone audio output by plugging in jack-xlr with phantom power on the channel. And Muso's are far worse than them with tech, especially guitarists, who dont understand cause and effect.

That's because cheezy mixing consoles are built with GLOBAL Phantom Power, and people forget that they enabled it once to use that ONE mic that requires it.

But you're right about guitarists; most of them are pretty dangerous around technology beyond a 9V battery...

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

Getting rid of the headphone jack on all Apple's products will be suicide for them.

Yes, just like when Apple removed the serial port, parallel port, 5.25" floppy drive, 3.5" floppy drive, VGA port, Ethernet port, and when they introduced the lightning connector. After all of that, I'm sure getting rid of the headphone jack will be the straw that broke the camel's back.

I agree that this won't be "suicide for them".

But I also believe that now isn't the time. Let's let the iPhone thing play out a little, and let the market start to let-go of the 3.5mm jack a bit, and then it won't seem so "weird" to replace the 3.5mm jack with a Lightning port, or just eliminate it altogether.

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality. The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

What's a push-pull transistor? There is no such thing. There are push-pull transistor CIRCUITS; but not push-pull transistors...

Re:Apple's suicide

[Grishnakh]

I'm looking forward to that day. It'll be funny as hell watching all the Apple users pay $$$ for Apple Compatible BT headphones and speakers. And I have zero doubt that they will.

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

Anyone who stayed with Apple after the lightning connector change will stay with Apple after this, save a very small (and vocal) minority.

Well, since GLOBAL supplies of the iPhone 7 (Plus) are already sold-out, I would say that Apple is probably feeling that pulling the 3.5mm jack is not a "deal breaker" for most people. And they'd be right.

But I also think that the Mac is not an iPhone, and different rules apply. Therefore, the 3.5mm jack should stay, at least for the time being, on the Macs.

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

True audiophiles were already using external DACs anyway like my professional musician friend friend who uses them to hookup sound systems instead of using the noisy DACs included in PCs/Macs.

PCs (especially laptops) are NOTORIOUSLY noisy (but usually it is not really the DAC, per se, that is at fault). But Macs (including laptops) generally have VERY good audio specs, in fact, surprisingly so.

But an external DAC should be at least slightly better in all cases, if only to get the Analog stuff out of the noisy digital environment and somewhat "trashy" (electrically-noisy) power supply.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Feral Nerd]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality. The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

And corded analogue headphones are not superseded by wireless ones? Of course you will reply by pointing out that the sound is better if you have corded analogue headphones but my point is that the corded headphones are not necessarily superseded sound-qualitatively but in terms of convenience of use. Most consumers are perfectly happy with headphones whose audio quality you would consider a personal insult and they don't really care about a slight drop in quality because of Bluetooth compression. The average consumer doesn't have the musical ear of a piano tuner and he/she cares more about the convenience of wirelessnes than getting concert quality audio. Nor does the average consumer think, that having spent between 4-800 bucks on a smartphone, that it will drive them into personal bankruptcy to spend another 25-50 bucks to get a half way decent set of Bluetooth plugs on Amazon. The same essentially goes for most users of Android phones. A new Galaxy S7 is in the same price range as the iPhones and as will the upcoming S8 which promises to be a really nice device and when you have shelled out that kind of money for an Android phone shelling out another few buck for a decent set of Bluetooth plugs isn't going to kill you. You can get pretty decent and highly reviewed Bluetooth plugs for an amount of money which is not that greater than what you are willing to pay out for a shock proof cover and armour glass for your extremely expensive new Galaxy phone. If they delete the audio jack from the MacBook lines I'll be mildly inconvenienced, then I will go buy a USB adaptor for the one set of corded headphones I still have, fix the the adaptor to the 3.5 mm jack with some heat shrink if it keeps falling off and not think about this issue again.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Darinbob]

There's no decent substitute for them though. MP3 players are just crap at dealing with podcasts. Itunes makes managing podcasts very easy. I had my ipod stolen from my car this year and there weren't any reasonable alternatives - itunes won't work with non-apple products, and non-apple products don't have good software tools. The newer ipods though suck badly, so I had to go to amazon to find older models.

Re:Apple's suicide

[UnknowingFool]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality. The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

I don't know about "high quality" when it comes to a standard headphone audio jack. Now for the MacBook Pro as well as some other laptops, the headphone jack is also a digital audio out port as well. So ditching that would affect those customers like DJs and sound professionals that use that port as a digital signal.

Re: Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

My company, and me personally, do not buy mac books because they lack ethernet jacks. We're also not alone. It has cost them, just like this will.

You do realize of course that you are basing your purchasing decisions on using a $30 TB Ethernet port dongle, for those fairly rare occasions when decent WiFi isn't available in an office environment. And if you don't want an official Apple one, you can get Grey-Market (bootleg non MFi-licensed) Adapters on Amazon for about $15. To me, that seems a pretty petty thing to base an entire laptop-level buying decision on.

Re:Apple's suicide

[narcc]

I guess iTunes isn't universally reviled after all.

Just about everyone else hates it though. I wouldn't use iTunes a reason, let alone the only reason, to defend the iPod.

Re:Apple's suicide

[phayes]

I don't Podcast but my media management tool is MediaMonkey. If you're on windows it may help.

Re:Apple's suicide

[dgatwood]

Well, since GLOBAL supplies of the iPhone 7 (Plus) are already sold-out [reuters.com], I would say that Apple is probably feeling that pulling the 3.5mm jack is not a "deal breaker" for most people. And they'd be right.

If anybody thought for one minute that *any* product change, no matter how major, would impact sales in the short term, then they don't understand how sales works. Some key points:

• Most people buy a phone because they need one, whether because the old one broke or whatever.
• Most folks don't read the tech press, and don't know about the headphone jack at all.
• Only about 20-30% of users care, and even if all of those 20% users left the platform, Apple would still sell out on opening weekend, because demand outstrips supply by far more than that.
• Most people who use the headphone jack will likely try to work around its absence initially rather than going through the pain of switching platforms (and run the risk of other manufacturers imitating Apple, leaving them no better off for all that pain).

The truly interesting question is whether the folks in that last group have a higher return rate, and whether their experience is bad enough to make them change platforms in two or three years when they decide to upgrade again. In other words, we won't truly know the impact of removing the headphone jack until at least 2018, realistically.

Re:Apple's suicide

[oji-sama]

I guess iTunes isn't universally reviled after all.

Just about everyone else hates it though. I wouldn't use iTunes a reason, let alone the only reason, to defend the iPod.

Updated iTunes today. It demanded me to reboot my computer. On the bright side it didn't manage to remove the headphone jack from my Lenovo.

Re:Apple's suicide

[fluffernutter]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality.

To be fair, all my monitors are still VGA, and all my laptops (except for the mac) have VGA and it all works fine. The mac is the one that doesn't work properly for me because I have to use a displayport to VGA converter.

Re:Apple's suicide

[fluffernutter]

I wonder how many people who bought the iPhone 7 even considered the removal of the port. Many of them will find themselves stuck after buying the device and will basically be forced into submission.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

All my friends who have macs carry the fucking ethernet dongle with them.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Serial, parallel and flopies all had superior technologies available. The number of collegues using the ethernet thunderbolt dongle (basically all who are on macs) are here to show that cable rules.

So you either get wireless headphones and deal with the issues you will have when the spectrum is crowded by all the otherapple victims or get lightning headphones fpr your phone and usb headphobes for your laptop and two dongles ( usb to jack and lightning to jack) in case you need a legacy connection. Cool!

Re: Apple's suicide

[phayes]

Aww gee a poorly contrived strawman, how cute...

Allow me to introduce you to something you seem to be ignorant of that helps cut down on the cables.: It's called WIFI and Cisco sells lots of these things called access points and Wireless Lan Controllers. Maybe if you're a good boy Santa will bring you a book (or even two - a dictionary to explain some words that are kinda complicated) on how one can use WLCs and beam forming access points to form a meshed network capable of connecting a few hundred clients (but only if you're a very good boy).

Some techs bring an AppleTV along. It's relatively inexpensive (but somewhat resolution limited) and they can connect it to the video conferencing screens if they want to sit at the back of the room or roam around and airplay whatever they're demoing (again over that newfangled WIFI thing). Others sit at the front and connect their MAC/PC using a HDMI cable to the HDMI port.

When performing a demo/training in front of 20-50 people, I've never seen anyone plug in earphones to isolate themselves from questions we often ask but during breaks I may have missed someone. Even participants are normally there to interact with the person giving the demo/training but I suppose you'd rather plug in & tune out.

The future rMBP will have 4 USB-C ports from everything I've heard so even with one plugged in to charge, possibly one (maybe with a dongle) connected to a HDMI cable, one with a dongle connected to a jack for haedphones to listen to music on breaks, we'd still have one free (with a dongle) for Ethernet if that was necessary.

For current rMBP's that makes one Magsafe cable if the Mac needs a charge, add a HDMI if he doesn't want to roam or needs Full-HD, add an analog jack if he wants to listen to music on breaks and add an ethernet cable if he needs that.

For future rMBPs he'll need one USB-C cable if the Mac needs a charge, two + a HDMI dongle if he doesn't want to roam or needs Full-HD, three + a dongle if he wants to listen to music on breaks and add an ethernet dongle + cable if he needs that.

As that's no worse than currently, you have no point.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

The T420 as in the Thinkpad? They're built with a headphone jack, bro...

Re:Apple's suicide

[kaatochacha]

The sell outs are planned.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Ethernet is still vastly superior to 802.11... Also, who the hell uses Thunderbolt?!? I only use it to connect my Ethernet dongle to my MacBook Pro... I'm pretty sure it will go the way of FireWire 400 and 800. Apple has made some pretty asinine choices, and it seems they are considering more...

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Get an unlocked Droid phone. That'll be better than a p.o.s. iPod...

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

we won't truly know the impact of removing the headphone jack until at least 2018, realistically.

And if history is any predictor, every other OEM will follow Apple, and by 2018 it will be a moot point; since there won't be 3 phones total left on the market that still have a 3.5mm jack.

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

I wonder how many people who bought the iPhone 7 even considered the removal of the port. Many of them will find themselves stuck after buying the device and will basically be forced into submission.

I asked the one (not Apple fanboy; but iPhone owner) cow-orker that pre-ordered a couple of iPhone 7s for he and his wife, whether he worried about the removal of the 3.5mm jack.

His reply: "I don't see it as a big deal. They include an adapter, don't they?"

So, I think most people are just going to plug the adapter onto their headphones/earbuds/headset and go on with their lives. Hopefully, the retention-force of the 3.5mm jack on the adapter will be high-enough that it will tend to stay attached, once it is mated with your old-skool headphone cable.

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

The sell outs are planned.

Wrap another layer of tinfoil on that hat. The mind-control rays are obviously still getting in...

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

He must not listen to music for great lengths of time if he's not worried about charging while playing.

Re: Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

not to mention always having adaptersto use your phone. Personally, I would find all of that frustrating. A phone should be asself contained as possible.

Re: Apple's suicide

[thegarbz]

My current headphones need to be inserted just right into the jack, else the left ear stops working.

It may be mature, but it sure isn't flawless.

Sounds like something any nerd can fix for you for 30c. The same can not be said about built-in bluetooth wireless shit combination when it refuses to pair due to some hardware incompatibility that bluetooth is so well known for.

Re:Apple's suicide

[thegarbz]

And corded analogue headphones are not superseded by wireless ones?

No they're not. Nothing to do with quality, just to do with common availability, standard alternatives, reliable alternatives, competition on cost, and every other frigging metric.

Many people weren't too sad about Apple removing previous technologies because they all had a very clear migration path with very clear advantages. The migration path in this case however has a 10 page list of downsides, .... oh but it's wireless so it must be good and much higher-tech = much better.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Darinbob]

I dont' really use it for music, I don't use anything for music. The store I will never use. But for podcasts it just works. Every few weeks I plug the ipod back in (is normally in the glove box of my car), it syncs the new podcasts/music and removes the podcasts I listened to. Every week I start up itunes, wait for it to get new podcast episodes, then exit it. To get a new podcast that I see at a web site it generally just a click or two.

Yes, itunes is annoying even for podasts at times. Every update seems to rewrite the UI from scratch. So I don't bother updating it very often, but since it almost never runs and I only use it for syncing, I don't worry about it.

The ipod too has a very nice user interface. At least the older ones before they went with the moronic shuffle or adding a one inch by one inch video and so on. I've got ipod nano 3rd generation.

Re: Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

He must not listen to music for great lengths of time if he's not worried about charging while playing.

I don't know hat you consider "great lengths"; but If you're just listening to music with an iPhone 7, the battery life is like 40 hours continuous for the 7, and 60 (!!!) hours continuous for the 7 Plus; so get a grip.

Re:Apple's suicide

[armanox]

Actually, I know quite a few people (including myself) that will not buy the retina MacBook Pro because it is too much hassle compared to the non-retina model. Ethernet and upgradable parts have kept it alive and quite popular four years later. Most users (myself included) have no interest in carrying a pile of dongles (I bought a 2012 in Feb, plus Apple approved SSD and 16GB of RAM, for less then the cost of buying a retina one with 8GB of RAM and a smaller SSD).

Re: Apple's suicide

[fluffernutter]

The iPhone 7 gets only 14 hours of internet use.. Even if it gets 40 hours just listening to music, no one is going to do that.

Re: Apple's suicide

[jmccue]

Yes T420 Thinkpad, but not the one I have, only USB ports, no headphone jacks. A W500 I have @ work has Headphone jacks though.

Re:Apple's suicide

[dgatwood]

In which case we'll never know whether they were right or wrong.

Re: Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

The iPhone 7 gets only 14 hours of internet use.. Even if it gets 40 hours just listening to music, no one is going to do that.

Are you seriously going to "counter" with "it only gets 14 hours of Internet use"? Who the fuck spends 14 hours in one day (or maybe even TWO days) on their PHONE doing ANYTHING? If you do, there's medications to help with that...

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

In which case we'll never know whether they were right or wrong.

Oh yes we will.

Re: Apple's suicide

[fluffernutter]

General internet use will use less battery than streaming music, which is a constant transfer, so now we're down to 10 hours a day. You're going to use your phone for other things as well, so let's be conservative.. 8 hours a day. Now if you listen to music for an 8 hour work day you're going home with a sliver of battery at the end of the day. And this is when the phone is new, two years down the road you're only going to have 70-80% capacity left.

Re: Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

General internet use will use less battery than streaming music, which is a constant transfer, so now we're down to 10 hours a day. You're going to use your phone for other things as well, so let's be conservative.. 8 hours a day. Now if you listen to music for an 8 hour work day you're going home with a sliver of battery at the end of the day. And this is when the phone is new, two years down the road you're only going to have 70-80% capacity left.

Nice try. On my 2 year old iPhone 6 Plus, I can stream music from Apple Music literally all day at work using WiFi, and it only eats about 10-12% of my battery. I was mightily impressed myself, actually, because I expected at least twice that. But that's the truth. And the iPhone 7 (and 7 Plus) are supposed to have about 2 extra hours of battery life over the iPhone 6s (and 6s Plus), which I think had about the same battery life as the 6 and 6 Plus, IIRC.

And keep in mind that Apple now has four cores, two of which are special "low power" cores, in the 7 series' SoC; so I wouldn't be surprised to get fairly phenomenal battery-life for just streaming music. Yes, I know the RF parts use the same power regardless; but the overall power drain will still be much lower when the phone decides to use the low-power cores; which it certainly could do while simply streaming.

Re: Apple's suicide

[fluffernutter]

Ok, well I'm not familiar with Apple devices... Interesting to know. It would be nice to have a place where you could try mobile devices for, say, a week and return them if you aren't happy. Not to say I would get one, since I don't like iTunes.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality. The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

problem is apple are known for using some of the shittiest amps feeding that jack so doesn't apply here. Lot of devices use quite nice opamp feeding the headphone jacks, and often even better signal path on some devices behind the 3.5mm line out jacks. No loss to their users as apple users don't care about the best quality, they care what is recognised as the most expensive/trendy thus wouldn't even use better sounding stuff at same price because they'd loose "teh hotness" factor.

Re:Apple's suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

True audiophiles were already using external DACs anyway like my professional musician friend friend who uses them to hookup sound systems instead of using the noisy DACs included in PCs/Macs.

PCs (especially laptops) are NOTORIOUSLY noisy (but usually it is not really the DAC, per se, that is at fault). But Macs (including laptops) generally have VERY good audio specs, in fact, surprisingly so. But an external DAC should be at least slightly better in all cases, if only to get the Analog stuff out of the noisy digital environment and somewhat "trashy" (electrically-noisy) power supply.

from what I've seen they switched to average (median) dacs (they used to be excellent) but their amps are usually poor and won't do it justice. I've rigged enough studio gear to know a lot of modern internal audio in pc's is actually very good and not like it used to be (noisy etc). I have dedicated desktop amps on one of my rigs for all the audio output/input to bypass all the internal ADC/DAC processing but one of my machines has internal pcie soundcard with perfectly clean signal path, good dac, average opamp (but accessible so can be swapped out) and headers so can get expandable panels if need extra inputs.

The notoriously noisy thing is more if you pick an average none audio rig aimed at office/gamers, and the latter has decent onboard sound for most folks use now (THAT is something unheard of 10 years ago). The old myths persist though but if you research what you buy you can get some good self contained solutions without having more external clutter which helps when you already have over half the workspace taken up with other audio gear.

Re:Apple's suicide

[dgatwood]

Let me rephrase that. We'll never know whether it would have had an impact on their sales.

Re:Apple's suicide

[macs4all]

Let me rephrase that. We'll never know whether it would have had an impact on their sales.

Maybe not. God forks the Universe every time a butterfly flaps its wings.

But as I said earlier, if history in this Multiverse is any judge, it won't have a negative impact...

Re:Apple's suicide

[torkus]

Oh, sorry. Let me get off your lawn.

Re:Apple's suicide

[fluffernutter]

It sometimes amazes me that the very same people falling all over themselves to get an electric car, none of which are actually better for the environment at the moment anyway, will also be consuming every new electronic device known to man. Using electronics until they actually break is a valid way to help the environment as well. Also, I don't wish to be one of those people who complain about the decline of the middle class yet always seem to have the newest things. Using electronics until they break is also financially responsible, and I find it sad that Apple does not choose to support these values.

They haven't asked me, and I do use it

[cruff]

Where is this survey?

Re:They haven't asked me, and I do use it

[Algan]

I got the survey request in the mail, but for my imac, not for my macbook pro. I guess they're exploring removing the jack on all their products.
And the answer to that question was no, i never use that port. I use a usb headset.

Re:They haven't asked me, and I do use it

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi, By any chance, could you please share a link to that survey or an email? msingh@mashable.com

Re:They haven't asked me, and I do use it

[fahrbot-bot]

Where is this survey?

Don't worry. Apple has already decided to do this and the survey is just to determine how big the blow back might be.

Re:They haven't asked me, and I do use it

[MrLogic17]

So if the port disappears, we know to blame you.
Thanks a lot.

Moronic DJs

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't half of the Macbook user base moronic DJs that use the 3.5mm jack to blast crappy house music at crappy parties? Shouldn't Apple know this?

Re:Moronic DJs

[silas_moeckel]

It's ok every crappy PA comes with BT now.

Re:Moronic DJs

[Grishnakh]

Hopefully they won't wait too long before putting some special Apple-only DRM on their Bluetooth so that people are forced to buy special Apple-compatible BT PAs or adapters.

Re:Moronic DJs

[macs4all]

Aren't half of the Macbook user base moronic DJs that use the 3.5mm jack to blast crappy house music at crappy parties? Shouldn't Apple know this?

Most of the moronic (and non-moronic) DJs use digital interfaces anyway, usually USB. The only thing most of them use the 3.5mm jack for is a last-ditch backup in case their interface falls over during a gig.

I use it all the time

[Bender Unit 22]

But I must admit that I am being more and more annoyed with the Apple hardware choices. So much that I have been considering stop using Final Cut Pro and finding an alternative that can run on Windows. I guess it will be Adobe premiere pro even tough I hate their subscribtion based licenses.

Re:I use it all the time

[fustakrakich]

I guess it will be Adobe premiere pro...

I can't think of a worse choice. You will need to splurge on Avid. Otherwise use Movie Maker

Re:I use it all the time

[605dave]

I feel your pain, I really do.

FCPx has pissed me off for years. But almost everyone I've know in media production who ditches their Mac for Windows goes back pretty quickly. No matter how annoying Apple's changes are (one of my pet peeves is the Fireware/Thunderbolt saga), my guess is that your experience in Windows trying to do media will make you break out in hives. This is not just an opinion, this is years of experience working in the field.

Also, I really think we are about to get a big new FCPx. It's been waiting on AVFoundation. Just my guess.

BTW what happened to the first 21 Benders?

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you tried Vegas? Been using it for 10+ years and works as well as premiere.

Re:I use it all the time

[jeepies]

You're suggesting Movie Maker as an alternative to Final Cut Pro or Adobe Premier?? I mean Movie Maker is great for a free tool, but by your logic a moped would be A-OK for a Forumla 1 racer.

Re:I use it all the time

[cayenne8]

So much that I have been considering stop using Final Cut Pro and finding an alternative that can run on Windows.

You might consider looking into Davinci Resolve . The NLE capabilities of that are really coming along!! That plus you also have the best color grading tool out there in the same package.

It is free..give it a try and see how you like it.

You do need a pretty "beefy" CPU/GPU combo to run it cleanly and real time, but it is a nice tool.

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Its always been like this. Remember Apple pushed everyone to Firewire just to rip it away from us. 30 pin port just to go to lightning.

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot. 90% of the post-production facilities I work at use Premiere. A lot of AAA movies are cut on premiere these days. You may not like it personally but it's industry standard at this point.

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Blender can be a viable alternative?
it has a video editing mode

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just a selection bias on your part, and most likely a fabrication. The production houses I work at, as a professional editor, use windows and premiere. Not sure why anyone would "break out in hives". Windows is just as easy to use as OSX and offers much more user control. It's just an operating system. And there has been a mass exodus from apple hardware since the mac pro was announced. It's simply not functional in a production environment, and costs $3,000+ over an equivalent windows machine. You can't even get modern hardware options like current GPUs.

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Blender can be a viable alternative?

"My PC is so powerful and extensible, why would anyone use anything else!"

"Whatever, dork. My Apple is so elegant and user-friendly!"

"Hey, have either of you guys seen the mouse to my Amiga?"

Re:I use it all the time

[dbialac]

Yep. Thing is, I think a lot of people would answer to that survey question "frequently". Go to a coffee shop and 1/2 the people with laptops have headphones plugged in. People also plug their speakers in to their laptops when they are at their desks, which have -- among other things -- speakers. Oh, and people plug their iPhones into their stereos at home as well. Oh wait.

Re:I use it all the time

[MachineShedFred]

Remember when it used to be a choice between Final Cut Studio or Avid Media Composer? Then Adobe embraced CUDA, and Apple embraced stupid with Final Cut X. Within 4 years the entire market shifted. And nobody is talking about it.

Re:I use it all the time

[leptons]

Sony Vegas Video is amazing. I quit FCP and never looked back.

Re:I use it all the time

[MachineShedFred]

As I understand it, the migration away from Apple for post-production is mostly about hardware. Apple refuses to support CUDA in favor of OpenCL. Apple no longer makes a professional desktop, even though they still have a completely useless and completely overpriced "Mac Pro".

Remember when you could buy a Mac Pro that you could stuff 3 or 4 GPUs from Nvidia into? Just like any workstation-class PC you can buy or build yourself?

I don't know why we're all so surprised that Apple is removing yet another port from their hardware - the last one they removed that nobody puts on their lists (serial, floppy, optical drives) was PCI Express.

Re:I use it all the time

[stealth_finger]

Do prem pro but try to find an older version of CS6 or something. Fuck their subscriptions.

Re:I use it all the time

[guises]

Apple refuses to support CUDA in favor of OpenCL.

It's not hard to see why they would do that, OpenCL is the open standard while CUDA is Nvidia's proprietary crap. "Why doesn't Apple support Glide?" you ask, well CUDA is the same thing. (That's almost literally true, Nvidia hired a lot of 3DFx employees when that company went under.)

But, all right, I'm complaining about one little thing, the rest of your point is well made. The real reason is because Apple has abandoned the idea that computers should be functional devices, rather than magic boxes which generate revenue.

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

unless your using a xeon or extreme edition cpu, are their free pci-e lanes to give to the end consumer for expansion?

4x lane for built in descret gpu if it has one as some objects in their line up do/did?
4x lane for thunderbolt1
4x lane for thunderbolt2
4x lane for ssd

looks like 16lanes so nope all done no extra pci-e lanes to hand out on them consumer cpus...

Re:I use it all the time

[Joe_Dragon]

and wifi / bt / e-net / usb 3.X all stacked off the X4 DMI link

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just a selection bias on your part, and most likely a fabrication.

I've seen this too. The OS does not matter when you spend 99% of your time in one app. If it's you responsible for administration, then the OS matters.

Not sure why anyone would "break out in hives". Windows is just as easy to use as OSX and offers much more user control.

How do I completely disable Cortana in Windows 10?

It's just an operating system.

Windows is so, so much more...

And there has been a mass exodus from apple hardware since the mac pro was announced. It's simply not functional in a production environment, and costs $3,000+ over an equivalent windows machine. You can't even get modern hardware options like current GPUs.

Yup, the redesigned Mac Pro is a complete joke and Apple don't currently have a true workstation class machine. I'd be very happy if Resolve Studio were available standalone for linux. I do not however, need or want a $30,000 console. Given a choice, I would never run Windows in a production environment exactly because I've had to administer it at other facilities.

Re:I use it all the time

[605dave]

I agree on the bias, that's why I said "people I have known". I should have been more specific. I work with mostly independent media producers in audio and video, not people that work at shops with IT houses. Windows has come a long way, and there is not the huge difference in usability there once was. But between driver and hardware issues plus stability issues the average user will get more frustrated with Windows than macOS. imho

Re:I use it all the time

[MachineShedFred]

Mac Pro always used Xeon CPUs. So yes, it's possible for them to have free lanes in a proper workstation.

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple lost me for video when they made Quicktime unable to even view my old .mov files without converting them first. What a fucking waste of my time.

Have they fixed that yet??

Dear God, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

They can't be serious. What are they going to do, sell a $75 USB - headphone adapter?

Re:Dear God, no!

[rainmouse]

They can't be serious. What are they going to do, sell a $75 USB - headphone adapter?

Just be wary in case you buy a cheap knockoff adapter and a later OS update bricks your device for being so cheeky.

Sly move, Apple. Real sly.

[Sebby]

Putting out a 'survey' to make us believe you intend to eventually actually release new updated desktop/laptop products in the 'near future'... Sly indeed!

Re:Sly move, Apple. Real sly.

[Anonymous Coward]

it's simply to make is believe they actually LISTEN TO USERS.

had they posed this question 12-24 months ago about the headphone use on iphones, and had millions of responses and #savethejack became became an internet rallying cry, there still would be no headphone jack on the iphone7.

Re:Sly move, Apple. Real sly.

[Anonymous Coward]

New Airpod Ad

Hardly ever use it on mine

[Anonymous Coward]

I hardly ever use the headphone jack on my MacBook Pro, and I have no qualms about them killing it. I have bluetooth headphones.

If the rumours are true about the 4 USB Type-C ports on the new MacBook Pro, then when USB Type-C headphones become commonplace that would be a viable option.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[Joe_Dragon]

So to have 4 USB 3 with TB you need at least 2 TB 3 controllers so that means an PCI-E switch and maybe the video card if they have one at a max of pci-e X8

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[Holi]

Since video cards tend not to be bottle-necked by the PCIE slot (you barely lose any performance going from PCIE 3.0 to PCIE 2.0) I don't see the problem of running graphics off an x8 slot.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[MachineShedFred]

Oh, well if Anonymous Coward hardly ever uses it, then clearly it can go. I guess I'm doing it wrong when I arrive at my office, and plug in my headphones do I don't annoy the shit out of every other person nearby with all the conference calls I have to attend.

And no, I don't see "get new headphones" as a viable solution. I have a very comfortable and high quality set that I purchased already for a significant price, and removing the connectivity to them "just because" is the dumbest thing I can think of at this moment.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[UnknownSoldier]

Good for you.

_Your_ use case doesn't match mine, and many others.

All of my Thunderbolt and USB ports are currently in use along with with 3.5mm headphone jack. Removing the headphone jack means MORE clutter (as I now need an USB hub), not less.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[phayes]

But plugging in your existing headphones to a USB-C adapter that apple will probably deliver to ease the transition or one of the many Docks that will surely be developed will be too painful to consider? Ohhkay.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[dgatwood]

Nearly every day, I have headphones attached to my MBP while composing music. There's no viable alternative to a headphone jack for me.

Bluetooth latency would make the computer unusable for that purpose, and the battery impact of running music editing software is huge (~4x idle power, on average), which means adding Bluetooth's power consumption on top of that would be a BIG problem.

And compression artifacts would make it hard to hear the telltale signs of unexpected dissonances buried in complex arrangements, which makes any compressed headphone system a complete non-starter.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[Anonymous Coward]

But plugging...

Folks who slavishly make excuses for Apple know all about but[t] plugging.

Re: Hardly ever use it on mine

[Anonymous Coward]

It's dipshits like you who empower Apple to justify their making dumbshit decisions almost every year...

Fucker.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[MachineShedFred]

If there is only one USB port, which is also used to charge the notebook, then yes, it's painful. Just like the fiasco with the single lightning port on the iPhone 7.

Please stop making excuses for bad design and making devices less useable.

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[phayes]

You visibly think that the univers revolves around you but are mistaken, just as you are mistaken when opining that because something doesn't suit you makes it a design fault.

A friend of mine needs push/pull accelerator to drive yet the lack of same on almost every other car in no way make it's absence a design fault. Some people have absolutely no need to plugin usb devices, whether or not they are charging, my son among them. He is very happy with his Macbook and only needs a dongle to plug it into a TV to share Netflix with his friends. It wouldn't suit me which is why I have a rMBP but design faults have nothing to do with it.

Stop opining using "I think == the laws of the universe are", You're only displaying how self-centered you are and not convincing anyone (I dare say not even yourself).

Re:Hardly ever use it on mine

[Anonymous Coward]

We're talking about a pro notebook here. You know, the "MacBook Pro." Many pros, if not practically all of them, plug into external displays, and other equipment. Which, with one port, they can't fucking do without buying a bunch of unnecessary shit they also have to carry around with them.

You are accusing the other poster of being narrow minded, yet you haven't fully grasped the concept at hand with a "pro" notebook.

Reason?

[nitehawk214]

Oh, I thought you wanted the jack removed because it took up too much space in the phone. Not the problem, is it? Is it because you own the perfect shitty overpriced headphones, Beats, and want to squeeze as much money out of your customers at possible?

Re:Reason?

[avandesande]

100$ Grados will smoke beats headphones... junk.

Re:Reason?

[Anonymous Coward]

The single earbud that came with old AM-only transistor radios smoke Beats headphones.

Re:Reason?

[CrashNBrn]

OSTRY KC06A IEM's - $51.99, getting my second pair this week.

10 mm CCAW double cavity driver
Eardrum Bionics Technology diaphragm
Titanium housing
Sensitivity: >102 dB @ 1 kHz
Impedance: 16 Ohms +/- 15%
Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz
Distortion: Channel imbalance: Rated power: 10 mW
4.43 ft (1.35 m) environment-friendly antibacterial TPU cable

Re:Reason?

[Anonymous Coward]

Beats sells headphones that require a headphone jack.

How in the world is this parent comment insightful? Fucking idiots who read Slashdot is why.

Re:Reason?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I thought you wanted the jack removed because it took up too much space in the phone

That was before it was removed to achieve waterproofness. Which was before it was removed to achieve "courage".

Re:Reason?

[avandesande]

Not an earbud guy myself... I know a lot of people like them though.

Re:Reason?

[nitehawk214]

Found the person that owns a set of Beats.

Go ahead and keep telling yourself they are not complete shit.

Re:Reason?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you remember when every computer had its own dedicated jacks for keyboard and mouse?

Now those things are just plugged into USB sockets, or maybe wireless. Nobody I know uses those sockets any more. And more modern computers don't have to bother including them.

What's wrong with trying to cut down the number of separate dedicated sockets you need to include on every desktop design?

Re:Reason?

[Anonymous Coward]

Never heard of Massdrop before. Thanks! I put in an order for these as well.

Re:Reason?

[thegarbz]

Coming soon a waterproof Mac Pro. Now you can wash your bin out in the sink when it starts to stink.

Re:Reason?

[david_thornley]

I have hearing aids, so earbuds are completely useless to me.

Bluetooth pairing

[wafflemonger]

Most of the Bluetooth headphones that I have used only like to be paired to one device at a time. A lot of Mac Book users also have an iPhone that now does not have a headphone jack. You will get all the adventures of pairing your headphones each time you switch devices.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[mridoni]

Easy, just buy a second set of headphones...

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Dega704]

Which will then pressure said users to buy another pair of wireless headphones for each device; and Apple just happens to own the #1 wireless headphone company.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is what the W1 chip is for. I think it's funnier people feel this survey is going to change anything. People use headphones on iPhones more so than a Macbook, yet look where that headphone jack is gone. Even if everyone filled in yes to that question it's gone.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[TFlan91]

For $160...

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[kalpol]

FYI the Sony SBH50 or whatever has replaced it will pair to two devices - I think you can even combine the inputs from both devices. It's pretty handy.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Bigbutt]

Yea, I get that when I "dock" my MBP and want to use the wireless keyboard when it's paired to the iPad. I generally just disable bluetooth on the iPad to break the pairing and then it pairs with the MBP.

[John]

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

You're clearly not thinking of the bigger picture.
Screw you and your 3rd party headphones, When you buy the all new Apple headphones you'll be able to pair them with all your apple devices.

Of course, this exclusive feature with come with a premium price tag and will be made obsolete in about 3 years times when Apple stop supporting it in favour of their "all new" (proprietary) headphone protocol.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Orgasmatron]

You are doing it wrong. Just buy two sets of Apple's new $160 headphones, pair each to one of your devices, then switch headsets as needed.

Simple!

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[slack_justyb]

Okay I'll admit, I've heard this before. However, and this just may be me, I've not had a problem with my pair of bluetooth headphones sitting here on my desk. My Moto X and my laptop both are paired to the headphones, but they usually figure out between the two of them who needs to be in control. So I throw my hands up and say, black magic, but apparently I've got some magical setup that avoids this for some reason.

But from what I've heard and seen with co-workers and what not, I'm apparently the 0.000001% case here of a seamless case.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[BostonPilot]

Most of the Bluetooth headphones that I have used only like to be paired to one device at a time. A lot of Mac Book users also have an iPhone that now does not have a headphone jack. You will get all the adventures of pairing your headphones each time you switch devices.

Exactly. We chat on Slack, Skype, Hangouts, and sometimes even the phone. Right now I just move the headset connector between the laptop and the phone, and there's never a pairing issue. Working remotely, I use the headset many hours a day.

I'm not sure which I hate more, removing the jack from the phone or the laptop. Both suck. Right now my plan is to wait until iPhone 8 when hopefully everybody has complained enough so that they put the jack back into the phone.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[AmiMoJo]

Apple's custom wireless chip gets around this. However, they told Ars Technica that they won't be licencing it to anyone else, so it's Apple or Beats or fuck you.

More interesting is the question of what will replace it. Will they add a Lightning port, or will that one USB C port now need a quad splitter so you can charge, use a flash drive, use ethernet and listen to your headphones at the same time?

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[BostonPilot]

I should have added, I have a MBP. I'm still using my 2011 MBP because I was able to install a replacement for the hard drive (1TB SSD) which I can't do with the newer laptops. I would also like to be able to expand the memory (16GB is starting to not be enough). If I wanted a crazy thin laptop I'd get a plain Macbook, but thanks I'll take a little more thickness to be able to have lots of ports and to be able to upgrade disk and memory.

I know they're going in another direction which I really don't understand. I don't consider the current laptops PRO devices. I've been hoping they would see the error of their ways and go back to a thicker laptop with upgradable components and more ports but it doesn't seem to be likely. It sucks, because being an Apple developer I can't just switch to some laptop running Linux.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[swb]

Can you actually mix multiple inputs on those headphones, so that you obtain audio from two devices at once?

My experience has always been that while a lot of devices support pairing multiple devices, there is always a manual process to switch between devices you want to get audio from, with "manual process" including either manually selecting the desired paired device or worse, disabling bluetooth on one of the paired devices you wanted to disable. I've never seen a device that allowed for simultaneous audio from multiple sources.

I don't know if this is a limitation of the bluetooth standard or the radios. My guess is that its a standards limitation, since, say a laptop will allow simultaneous use of a mouse and headphones at the same time. But even laptops (with presumably none of the assumed hardware limitations of a bluetooth dongle or headphones) don't seem to allow multiple BT audio devices to be paired to it.

I've long wanted a bluetooth reciever dongle with mixing capabilities, where I could pair with multiple audio sources and control the volume and mute either independently while being able to obtain audio from both devices at the same time. I don't know if this would require multiple radios or just better software in the device.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

Then having to put some ugly stickers on them so you can actually distinguish them (assuming you don't want different colors).

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[MachineShedFred]

Don't forget the other disadvantage: bluetooth audio doesn't have the fidelity that a simple fucking wire has, and has far more latency than a simple fucking wire has.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Grishnakh]

Exactly.

If you can afford $$$$ for an Apple laptop, you can certainly afford multiple pairs of Beats wireless headphones for $$$ each.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Grishnakh]

You're completely forgetting about the placebo effect: Apple users will think the Beats Bluetooth headphones sound far better than any wired headphones ever made.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

bonjour over blue tooth maybe, it's a software problem, it can probably be fixed.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[The-Ixian]

Not sure if the quality is still there, but my Blue Ant X5 Bluetooth headphones have lasted almost 10 years of continuous use (I bought then around 2007). They are one of the longest lasting piece of electronic gear I have ever owned. They still sound great. I have paired them with dozens of devices. I wear them when I work out, ride the bus, bike ride, walk, etc. They have been through rain and snow and they are still on their original batteries (though I have had to file the corrosion off the copper contacts many times over the years).

Re: Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

The new apple ear phones handle this idiot

Re: Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

It pairs via iCloud seemlessly across all devices.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[armanox]

At a previous job I told our Apple rep, in response to them asking us why we stopped buying new Apple laptops, that we would start buying more if they made a Professional MacBook Pro again (we kept ordering the 2012 model). They were not amused, but IT (and the users) preferred the Precisions that we were buying (M4x00 line) to the rMBP.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

And bluetooth headphones suck. Give me a bluetooth headset half as good as a simple Audio-Technica MX50 and I'm sold.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Anonymous Coward]

I have several pairs of Bluetooth headphones that pair simultaneously to two devices. Useful because I carry two phones (one work, one personal). If I am listening to music on one, and I get a call on the other, it will pause the music, ring on the headphones and let me take the call on them either by pressing the button on the headphones to answer, or the button on the phone to answer, no action needed to switch between inputs. Likewise, if I'm listening to something on one, and then play something on the other, it will automatically pause and switch.

So, no manual intervention needed to switch between devices, however, it can only play audio from one device at a time. Would be great if they could mix audio, perhaps at some point this feature will be added.

apple laptops are to thin and need more ports

[Joe_Dragon]

apple laptops are to thin and need more ports.

If they go USB C / TB 3 they may only have 2 ports so they don't endup with a mix of USB-C TB and USB-C non TB ports.

meh

[Anonymous Coward]

oh well just another device to go firmly on my do not buy list. People can moan and bitch all they want if they dont like it the only thing that matters if voting with their feet/money. Dont buy the products that dont have features you want/need. Buy those that do and show what it is that you want.

im sure there are plenty of people who would not care about this but theres plenty that dont those that do care wont get what they want if they support the product by buying it, if enough people abstain you will see either a product option being made available to suit you or changes in future products.

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignoring = stagnation, decay
Whining = progress

"If you don't like it leave it" is a solution the way hoverboards hover.

Use it almost daily.

[dprimary]

I have multiple audio interfaces and still use the headphone jack all the time.

Re:Use it almost daily.

[clifyt]

Yup. So do I.

I use the interfaces when I need to get multiple streams of audio INTO the machine or if I need fast / precise latency on the way out (a few of mine will do internal monitor mixing so I have no computer based delay while playing instruments)...but 99% of the time? I'm still plugged directly into the headphone port. Its convenient and it isn't plugged 10 feet away in a rack that I have to stand in front of.

I have a feeling most audio professionals still use this more often than not. If they move to bluetooth...there is no fucking way I can deal with the latency even when just doing simple mixes.

Re:Use it almost daily.

[phayes]

People who really care about audio quality were already using external DACs & Apple doesn't make any so it's not as if their use is an attempt at padding their bottom line as some are claiming. If you're using a rMBP you're already using a dongle for Ethernet and external DACs plug into USB ports.

Re:Use it almost daily.

[Blaskowicz]

If your external DAC is powered from the USB port, it may pick up noise from the computer. Power comes from the laptop's insides, just as with an internal DAC. So you need a separate power supply for the DAC. Two power bricks and two wall plugs for a laptop. Then, you need a Thunderbolt SSD to add storage instead of adding an SSD in the laptop. Ethernet dongle too. Get a powered USB hub if you're out of ports, since powered hubs are better. Third power brick. Why not make the keyboard external while we're at it, because that's trendy (Surface Pro like computers). By that point, why call it a laptop?

Re:Use it almost daily.

[phayes]

Serious audiophiles & professional musicians have already looked into the issues you raise and continue to buy external DACs (there is a range of quality/prices as well). For USB powered external DACs, filtering the USB power input is a lot easier than protecting it from the nearby high voltage and high frequency emitters inside a PC, which is again why people who really care use external DACs.

Re:Use it almost daily.

[armanox]

How many people actually are using the rMBP though? None of the people that I know are buying them, and even some corporate groups are buying the 2012 still or moving to the Dell Precision instead.

Re:Use it almost daily.

[phayes]

rMBP's dominate at Cisco but PC's have indeed been catching up over the last year or so. It's amusing to see people who used to say, "you have to use an ethernet dongle on your rMBP, I couldn't do that" walk in with the nicer Dells/HPs that also use dongles. Somehow it's no longer a major issue...

Re:Use it almost daily.

[Blaskowicz]

Yes, I overlooked USB filters. I even stumbled upon some on the web : around 30 or 40 euros/dollars for a USB filter and same for the DAC.
I do hold the view that an internal sound card in a desktop can be well "audiophile" enough, e.g. Xonar DX, Sound Blaster Z and others. There's quite some filtering going on there, although some PC might be more noisy than others - perhaps graphics card with sudden and large power use transitions.
Laptop audio outputs are generally potentially the worst ones, with phones and smartphones. But if the laptop is not hugely noisy and if the DAC chip is well surrounded, it might be good enough for the most part. I suspect a budget difference of $1 or similar would make or break it.

I disregard $5000 DACs as useless. Even if they hold their promises, being 99.9999% perfect instead of 99.999% doesn't serve any purpose.

Re:Use it almost daily.

[phayes]

External USB DACs are cheap enough and and enough better than apple's internal MBP DAC that a professional musicien friend swears by them.
Beyond my acceptance of his clearly being more knowledgeable than I am, he's also more demanding than I am as I've always found Mac DAC's to be more than good enough for my needs (Laptops buzzing in my ears when not playing anything but with the volume set to max aren't).

This won't go over well

[LichtSpektren]

Nobody cares about the thinness of a pro laptop, they just want it to get the job done.

This might be the beginning of the end of the use of Macs in audio engineering.

Re:This won't go over well

[berj]

Nobody? Hardly

Personally I'd like my macbook pro laptop (that I use for daily software development and high-end animation and rendering software) to get as thin and light as possible. Every pound saved is a pound I don't have to lug through airports multiple times a year.

Of course I still want all the connectivity and power that I currently have.. but barring changes there I have no issue with making things as thin as physically possible.

I'd be happy to see 4 or 5 USB C ports and nothing else on this thing. Carrying around a couple of adapters is hardly the burden everyone seems to make it sound like.

Re:This won't go over well

[phayes]

Leaks of what was claimed to be the next rMBP chassis have 4 USB-C ports and no magsafe or other ports. I think the Macbook style keyboard will be a bigger adjustment than the loss of audio, magsafe & SD slots but my son in college is more than happy with his sole USB-C...

Re:This won't go over well

[berj]

I'd be very happy with that. I know *many* people that would be very happy with the single port in the regular macbook too.

I would definitely miss the magsafe connector though.. that thing has saved my laptop a number of times. Though I think someone is selling magsafe USB C cables so maybe it's not a huge deal.

Re:This won't go over well

[ArtemaOne]

I agree. I'd be fine with it being a bit thicker, and that space used for airflow so it doesn't really add to weight. The MB Air exists for thin, Pro, well, should mean what it implies.

Re:This won't go over well

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using a Macbook Pro right now; it's pretty damn thin and light! I lug it around all the time for work, and it's not a problem. Making it smaller or lighter at this point doesn't really do anything, I think my laptop bag is heavier.

Wrong audience

[bytesex]

I have a macbook pro, just not with retina display. I opted out of that, because I'm old fashioned when it comes to displays (and I don't use a macbook as a shiny tool for graphic design). So now I guess I'm not cool enough to let our Cupertino overlords know what I do with my headphone jacks (I use them, btw). Bummer.

Re:Wrong audience

[phayes]

I use my rMBP to work with with multiple VMs to template deployment of hardware like F5s, Ironports, Fortinets, etc and appreciate having a high quality screen so that I can work in high resolution even away from my desk. If you think that retina screens are only useful as a "shiny tool for graphic design" for people who think that they need to be "cool" you're missing something important.

That or you're only pretending to own a MBP.

Re:Wrong audience

[armanox]

I bought the non-retina model back in February because Ethernet and replaceable parts are more vaulable to me then the retina display. Plus, I was able to buy (Apple approved even) 16GB of RAM and an SSD for much cheaper then getting the rMBP with 8GB of RAM (and it isn't like there is a lot of gain on the CPU end going from Ivy Bridge to the Haswell model I was looking at. Wireless AC was the only feature that I sorta wanted, but that really won't be a concern for a couple of years yet, if it ever becomes one).

Re:Wrong audience

[phayes]

You forgot/didn't notice that newer rMBP's use direct PCI flash drives that removed the SATA interfaces limitations. My 2013 model rMBP's flash drive still uses SATA so I'm pretty much in the same boat you are there.

Faster "disk" performance is almost always an important criteria (but wasn't enough to get me to upgrade either yet).

reweb using altered illegal BSD for spam

[Anonymous Coward]

perdi a vontade de ir no oshow da rihanna só porque tu fez amizade com essa merda da helena.

Speakers

[mr.gson]

Whenever my MacBook Pro is sitting on my desk, it's connected to a pair of decent PC speakers, through the headphone jack. Except when I'm in a teleconference, then I'm using a pair of headphones from an iPhone 5, also through the headphone jack.

Re:Macbook pro

[HBI]

You _do_ realize that this crap, along with the keying of cars with his stickers and political sign vandalism is assuring his election, right?

Only the losing side resorts to such measures.

Analog Hole

[Script Cat]

Got to plug that analog hole.

Re:Analog Hole

[bruce_the_loon]

Problem with that argument is that in order to so, a totally digital audio reproduction path is needed, with digital all the way to the voice coil or peizo plate in the speaker. Video can be replaced since digital LCD panels can use proprietary drivers to switch individual pixels and capturing that requires capturing the light and colour from each pixel element. Until someone can invent a non-electrially driven sound element, capturing that single electrical signal is a simple task, even if it means sacrificing a pair of Beatz (oh the Horror!!!)

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Digital all the way to the neural interface!

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, until they plug the analog holes on the sides of our heads, there will always be an analog hole.

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Would that be the hole in your face making those annoying noises?

Re:Analog Hole

[phayes]

Apple no longer sells DRM'ed music so what is this analog hole you claim Apple is trying to plug by removing the jack?

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Got to plug that analog hole.

Actually, that hole is both analog and digital. At the back of the headphone jack is an optical connection that can be used for digital audio. It only supports stereo audio, but it's the only way to get digital audio out of a MacBook Pro without an adapter of some sort and is the only source of digital audio on anything before the mid-2010 models.

Re:Analog Hole

[MrLogic17]

Security in depth, dude. You can't get 100% prefect security day 1, so you add security to every layer of the whole process, adding it in as you can.
Security in this case, meaning locking down who has control of audio. Analog is insecure, because Apple/licensing agreements can't control it.

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Tim Cook, is that you?

Re:Analog Hole

[mjwx]

Problem with that argument is that in order to so, a totally digital audio reproduction path is needed, with digital all the way to the voice coil or peizo plate in the speaker. Video can be replaced since digital LCD panels can use proprietary drivers to switch individual pixels and capturing that requires capturing the light and colour from each pixel element. Until someone can invent a non-electrially driven sound element, capturing that single electrical signal is a simple task, even if it means sacrificing a pair of Beatz (oh the Horror!!!)

You misunderstand what plugging the analogue hole is all about.

Plugging the analogue hole isn't about ensuring media cant be copied, if it can be viewed or heard it can be copied... the people behind this are not daft, in fact they're quite brilliant.

So this isn't about stopping experts who know how to copy media, its about stopping the evreyman who has no idea what a pixel element or peizo plate is. Plugging the analogue hole means that non-approved media will not play, everything in the chain is authenticated and authorised against the owner servers. Plugging the analogue hole is about creating a white list of authorised content and banning anything that isn't authorised from even being played. They know they can never stop the copying, but they can stop Joe Average from playing the latest season of MasterCrap he downloaded from bit torrent.

Re:Analog Hole

[mjwx]

Apple no longer sells DRM'ed music so what is this analog hole you claim Apple is trying to plug by removing the jack?

Surely you aren't that naive?

Apple Customer: My old songs wont play on the new laptop.
Apple: Our latest iPenetrate security platform is designed to keep you safer than ever before.
Apple Customer: durrrr....
Apple: You'll just have to download all your songs again to make them compatible.
/customer ignorantly goes off and downloads.

Content Industry: And the sheep are buying that this is for their protection?
Apple: Yes master, they're our bitches they'll do what they're told.
Content Industry: Do not forget Darth Cook, even you can be... replaced.

You can probably swap Apple for any online content vendor, once the hardware numbers reach a critical mass, the content industry will force everyone to do it.

Re:Analog Hole

[phayes]

Are you really so ignorant that you do not know that Apple worked against DRM'ed Music or is it that you are too prejudiced?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Got to plug that analog hole.

if apple would just search a little, they could find all sorts of things to plug it with.

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Tim Cook is the one who wants to get his hole plugged...

Re:Analog Hole

[ArtemaOne]

This doesn't make any sense. They fought to remove DRM long ago, and it hasn't come back. They also fight to keep communication fully encrypted. I get it that you're an anti-fanboi, but making things up isn't helpful to anyone.

Re:Analog Hole

[thegarbz]

You can't get 100% prefect security day 1

I look forward to rubbing this comment in your face on day 1000. The signals needed to push a speaker coil around are identical to the signals used to record analogue audio. That's a whole that can't be fixed, even if you attempt to modulate it in some fancy way there will always be a way to demodulate it back into an analogue signal.

Re:Analog Hole

[thegarbz]

You misunderstand what plugging the analogue hole is all about.

You have a misunderstanding of how to get sound into a person's ear. The signal used to drive an element back and forth to move sound happens to be a signal that is trivially recorded. Also remember it's just as much about stopping experts as it is stopping the common man, otherwise the experts will simply sell devices to the common man to do it themselves.

Re:Analog Hole

[AmiMoJo]

DRM'ed video, which includes audio. They already encrypted the video path.

Re:Analog Hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh Darth Cook would be so happy to plug that analog hole.

Re:Analog Hole

[KiloByte]

Nope, you'd need a totally controlled path until user's nerves. So until we get those implants, the analog hole will exist. And even then, if you have the technology to inject signal into the nerves, you can read it.

Re:Analog Hole

[r0kk3rz]

Digital all the way to the neural interface!

Yes. Converting a digital signal into an analog signal, which vibrates a drum, which creates pressure waves in the air, which induces a vibration into another drum, which creates pressure waves in some fluid, which moves some hairs which gets converted back into an electrical signal... is a seriously a rube goldbergian solution that has no place in the 21st century.

Re:Analog Hole

[Waccoon]

It doesn't have to be reliable. It only needs to be difficult enough so it's not worth the money/trouble to bypass. That works splendidly well in mass-market devices.

I Have To Call BS On This Article

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Explores the Idea Of Killing Headphone Jack On the MacBook Pro

They sound more like Jack Offs, to me.

Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

The main connector for audio is the 3.5mm jack. It's not like removing floppy disks when nobody uses them, or serial ports long after the market moved to USB. This is how it is TODAY.

Give them what they want.

This wouldn't be a big deal in a different world

[ErichTheRed]

Lately, Apple computers have pretty much been Intel reference designs in nice cases, but they do have a history of taking leaps that others haven't -- the iMac was the first computer without a floppy drive in an era when floppies were what USB sticks are now, cheap disposable storage. Same thing with getting rid of the CD-ROM drive and later the DVD in their laptops.

I think the controversy stems from a couple of things:
- Apple has been systematically turning their computers into throwaway appliances by removing expansion capability, then charging an arm and a leg for incredibly cheap RAM and storage capacity.
- They have a huge lock on the media market with the iTunes store, all of which encourages them to implement playback methods that prevent copying and give them the power to revoke licenses to content in the future
- They just happen to own a crappy overpriced line of headphones (Beats Audio) who just happens to sell wireless headphones guaranteed to work with their devices. So instead of picking up a cheap $5 throwaway pair of earbuds when you leave yours at home, you have to buy the $50 and up ones.

I'm all for technology marching on, but unless there's a major shift by all these companies away from monetizing the user rather than selling the hardware, people will assume it's for nefarious purposes.

Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[StandardCell]

There is no excuse to eliminate an audio jack from a phone, much less a Macbook. Too many complications with wireless headphones and microphones, and peripherals to add the functionality back just add to clutter for a portable device.

This isn't edgy, or brave, or futuristic. It's simply the beginning of the end for a once-innovative company who is practically trying to alienate its customer base. I really wonder if the same idiots who were in charge of the Final Cut Pro 10 transition were the same ones involved in these decisions.

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[Anonymous Coward]

It's simply the beginning of the end for a once-innovative company who is practically trying to alienate its customer base

They've been saying the same thing about Microsoft for decades now. Doesn't seem to have slowed them down any.

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[Zeromous]

Are you kidding? Microsoft pivoted HARD with Xbox and Windows 10.

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[Grishnakh]

Oh please, MS is doing just fine. What are angry Windows 10 users going to do, switch to Macs where they can't even use regular headphones? And what are angry Apple users going to do, switch to Windows 10, where the interface is horrible and none of their software works?

Face it, the users on both platforms aren't going anywhere, no matter what those companies do.

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[phayes]

No physical keyboard!
Doesn't play flash!
Doesn't even connect to 3G networks!

Apple's new iPhone is simply the beginning of the end for a once innovative...

Your rant brings back such fond memories of similar predictions that failed soooo harrrrdddd...

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[UnknowingFool]

There is no excuse to eliminate an audio jack from a phone, much less a Macbook.

Apple has their reasons and you may disagree with those reasons but they have them.

Too many complications with wireless headphones and microphones, and peripherals to add the functionality back just add to clutter for a portable device.

While I agree that generally wireless headphones are sometimes troublesome to set up, it only Apple worked on a set of wireless headphones where they optimized the setup. If only they developed a whole new chip just for this application. . .

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[Anonymous Coward]

apple NEVER innovated anything!
They just stole, copied, knocked off and patented stuff others did.

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[rsborg]

There is no excuse to eliminate an audio jack from a phone, much less a Macbook. Too many complications with wireless headphones and microphones, and peripherals to add the functionality back just add to clutter for a portable device.

You might be a bit late to the protest march - they did that over a year ago and it still sold - the USBC Macbook has no headphone port.

To be honest many many BT headphones and speakers have "multipoint" and can pair with several input sources, and switch on the fly. Even my old LG HBS730 (3 year old model - keep it as backup) does multipoint.

Re:Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[Zeromous]

They were leaving the platform. Even my mother asked me about Linux.

They pivoted hard and changed direction to put out Windows 10 and previously, the Xbox project. They made a conscious decision to save the company back in 2002 and it is finally bearing fruit.

Probably not "exploring"

[ebcdic]

More likely they have already decided to remove it in the new Macbook Pros expected soon, and are just doing this to get the complaints out of the way so they don't overshadow the launch.

Silver lining

[JoeyRox]

At least this means they're finally looking into updating the model. It's been a while.

Please don't...

[cayenne8]

Geez, I actually use my MBP as my desktop for about 98% of the time, and it is hooked to my desktop speakers for listening to....

I'm supposed to fscking do THAT wireless too now?!?!

WFT....?

Re:Please don't...

[dysmal]

I'm sure for $59.99 they'll have something that you can use to bridge the technology gap.

(Not trolling... I'm a Macbook Pro user myself and in the same boat as you)

Re:Please don't...

[pahles]

Windowed Fourier Transform won't help you.

Re:Please don't...

[kdekorte]

I have a USB to Audio Out hooked up to my USB hub (Think it was like $20 for the external DAC). So when I put my Mac on my desk and plugin my hub it auto switches to my external speakers via the USB adapter. So it is actually simpler because I only have to hook up the USB cable rather than the USB and the audio cable.

Re:Please don't...

[rainmouse]

Geez, I actually use my MBP as my desktop for about 98% of the time, and it is hooked to my desktop speakers for listening to....

I'm supposed to fscking do THAT wireless too now?!?!

WFT....?

Remember this is them taking what they describe as a brave engineering step. I suspect shafting their own customer base certainly does take some courage. I'd be more impressed if they took the brave step of actually paying their fucking tax bills and building their devices at home rather than in child-labour suicide factories.
Any fans of Asian horror will realise that's one ghost in the machine we can really do without.

Re:Please don't...

[DrXym]

You're supposed to pay a premium for Apple licensed speakers of course. That's what you're supposed to do.

Re:Please don't...

[lucm]

Geez, I actually use my MBP as my desktop for about 98% of the time

You're doing it wrong.

You're supposed to have an iMac for your desktop, a Macbook for Starbucks and/or shared startup workspace, an iPhone to order Ubers and Airbnbs, and an iPad to read Salon in the bathroom.

Use the Apple ecosystem as it was designed (which includes not complaining). If you can't afford it, your life priorities are wrong; surrender your iDevice and join the barbarians who don't "get" it.

Re:Please don't...

[Coisiche]

I suspect shafting their own customer base certainly does take some courage.

Not to Apple it doesn't. This comment thread will be full of statements from the Apple customer base with proclamations ranging from "it's not at all inconvenient" to "it's actually a good thing".

One day Apple might actually go to far in shafting their customer base, but today is not that day.

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are using it wrong
You are holding it wrong
You are thinking the wrong way ....

Re:Please don't...

[Roger W Moore]

I'm sure for $59.99 they'll have something that you can use to bridge the technology gap.

Unfortunately walking around carrying a bag of dongles to allow you to connect your laptop to the variety of peripherals it needs to connect to is not exactly what you expect for a 'pro' machine. You would have thought they would have learnt that from the Macbook but Apple seem to be really losing the picture here and with MS developing things like Linux for Windows plus the huge improvement in PC-based laptop construction (primarily driven by the need to compete with Apple) they may soon start losing customers if they don't get back on track and start providing 'must-have' features that will let them get away with crap like this.

Re:Please don't...

[netsavior]

You forgot your apple watch to play pokemans, and your apple pencil to do all your writing or drawing or whatever the fuck people think they are doing with a $99 stylus.

Re:Please don't...

[Lord Apathy]

Why do apple fans continually defend apple doing stupid shit? Every one who is not a apple fan agrees that removing the 3.5mm jack from the Iphone 7 was a stupid move. But apple fans defend it saying stupid shit like, there is a dongle that comes with it, or just pay $185 for the airheads, or what every they call them.

To kdekorte, I'm not trying to single you out. Actually that system you have there sounds kind of cool.

Re:Please don't...

[Grishnakh]

building their devices at home rather than in child-labour suicide factories.

Why should they do that? Their customers aren't going to penalize them for exploiting child labor.

actually paying their fucking tax bills

Why should they do that? The government isn't going to force them to, or at the very worst give them a tiny slap on the wrist that doesn't come close to the amount of money they saved by not paying taxes.

I suspect shafting their own customer base certainly does take some courage.

It just takes a customer base that's perfectly happy to get shafted, and then begs for more
.

Re: Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sticking it in their... nose?

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot the AppleTV to provide a constant stream of Steve Jobs puff pieces to your living room and the Apple MessagePad to scrawl the manifesto you leave for the FBI after you strap 5 Samsung Galaxy Note S7s to you and blow yourself up inside the Microsoft store.

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple reveals iPhone 7 headphones to be inserted anally

Re:Please don't...

[zlives]

i do the same with a thunderbolt hub for other connectivity as well, personally i prefer the blue tooth head set for me because I use it for my soft phone, but if i was listening to music... and cared about the experience...

Re:Please don't...

[Darinbob]

I use the headphone jack too, to be polite to the coworkers. I'm not heading down to the Apple Store to talk to the Genii and get a $25 dongle just to listen to a cat video.

Re:Please don't...

[BronsCon]

Haha I was like "WTF is this guy talking about" and had to go back up and re-read the comment. Then I saw it... Nice catch!

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither will Weighted Fourier Transform...

Re:Please don't...

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Wait, you use the headphone jack for desktop speakers? That better be for the optical out else you deserve no respect...

USB audio is already common enough that anyone using their MBP at home would be able to plug in with no problems. USB audio is in fact superior to both analog and optical.

Re:Please don't...

[amicusNYCL]

Don't worry Consumer, since Apple Inc. also owns one of the largest manufacturers of Bluetooth headphones, when it comes time for you to find a set of Bluetooth speakers you can be sure that they will have an entire line of products that fit their budget. Some of them might even fit your budget.

Re:Please don't...

[BronsCon]

Yes. At your desk it's simpler. I have a similar setup, except that it's a Thunderbolt hub that connects my display, ethernet, audio, and USB (2.0, 3.0, and 3.1) devices, as well as another Thunderbolt port, should I need it.

Do you carry that with you, or do you leave it set up on your desk?

If you carry it with you, it's no longer simpler to set up, as you have to connect all of that every time you move the computer; if you don't carry it with you, you lose those ports when you're not at your desk, so it's best to have them on the laptop itself for mobile use. That doesn't negate the value of the dock, nor does the dock negate the usefulness of the ports.

Re:Please don't...

[h4ck7h3p14n37]

We need to find this Courage person at Apple and kick his ass.

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do what I do, get an external USB DAC. The built-in sound sucks on all macs.... I just hope you have enough USB ports on you machine for this.

Re:Please don't...

[spyfrog]

I have to live in a different reality because where I live USB audio is really rare. Almost everyone I know always use simple 3.5mm connected audio.

Re:Please don't...

[dromgodis]

About the only pro thing left in the MBP is the price. Limited connectors and no way to upgrade the memory or storage is not pro in my book.

Re:Please don't...

[molarmass192]

I use a DAC at my desk too (the sound quality is that much better), but, like you said, I don't carry one with me. I always use wired headphones. Every. Single. Time. I detest the sound quality of wireless audio. When I'm on the road, on a plane, or away from my desk I *do* use the headphone jack. Yeah it's not the majority of the time, but I'd miss it a lot if it went away. I *assume* I could use a dongle, but that's one more port being occupied. Anyhow, my vote is leave it alone. It's not like the mic jack that saw little use.

Re:Please don't...

[BronsCon]

Exactly. And even for those who don't care about audio quality, for whom bluetooth is more than adequate for listening to music (and I'll admit I do love my Apt-X enabled bluetooth headset for listening on the go, in noisy environments where it doesn't matter anyway, especially when working on mechanical items where wires can be a hazard), the delay is killer for gaming and makes video unwatchable. Wired headphones still have their place where audio timing matters.

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bingo. What is Apple expecting people to do?

1: Bluetooth is OK for listening to headphones while out and about, but at home with a decent system, low noise floor, and FLAC or Apple Lossless music, it doesn't really pass muster. It would be nice if Apple had a reliable, high quality Bluetooth profile that would at least be as good as S/PDIF.

2: There isn't any good (read, inexpensive) way to run the analog audio port over other channels. Thunderbolt docks are not cheap, going from $250 on up for a few USB ports.

3: Space isn't that precious that there would be gains in weight by losing the audio jack, unlike phones.

Only reason I see that Apple has their pogrom against audio jacks is because they want to save a couple bucks.

Re:Please don't...

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Pretty much anything non-shit you buy these days includes support for USB.

Re:Please don't...

[goose-incarnated]

(Not trolling... I'm a Macbook Pro user myself and in the same boat as you)

The Titanic?

Re:Please don't...

[Opportunist]

Hmm... catering to people with more money than brains, getting sunk mainly by its own hubris, not having a backup plan because "that cannot happen"...

Yup, you're onto something here.

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure for $59.99 they'll have something that you can use to bridge the technology gap.

(Not trolling... I'm a Macbook Pro user myself and in the same boat as you)

I was thinking the same thing. Apple products are so widely used in the music industry from amateur to pro that removing the ability to make a stable analog connection to a audio device entirely would be an idiotic move. But seizing the opportunity to crowbar a couple 20's out of our pocket on another f*cking cable. Well that's just standard operating procedure for any technology company now isn't it.

Re:Please don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, you use the headphone jack for desktop speakers? That better be for the optical out else you deserve no respect...

USB audio is already common enough that anyone using their MBP at home would be able to plug in with no problems. USB audio is in fact superior to both analog and optical.

you better have your tongue in cheek, I'd assume so but have heard people claim that seriously hence my reply. It totally depends on the device, as per analog vs usb wtf ALL computer to speakers go through a DAC. Just whether the DAC is connected via an internal bus, intergrated into the motherboard etc or external like USB amp/dac combo and soundcards is the difference. The quality depends on what DAC is used, the amp and other things used NOT what bus it connects with. Apple are admittedly shit for most of those things but not the worst hence a crap USB soundcard / dac&amp will be worse.

I'm fine with that IF

[johnsmithperson123]

They are willing to replace the jack with a USB C connector. As long as somebody makes USB C headphones I'm fine with that.

Re:I'm fine with that IF

[phayes]

or deliver a cheap adapter like they do with the iPhone 7...

What's the point?

[Robert Goatse]

Even though it sucks, I almost get removing the jack from phones as you're trying to save every spare mm. But a laptop? Surely that tiny jack isn't taking up too much precious space.

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well no, this is simply a necessity to render the laptop waterproof...

Re:What's the point?

[lusid1]

Agreed. Making the laptop smaller is pointless if the bag of adapters you have to carry with you keeps getting bigger. Things are pretty absurd in Apple land as it is. I've got USB->Ethernet, TB->Ethernet, TB->HDMI, TB->VGA,TB->DVI, USB->Serial (two of them, and the Cisco adapters to go with them), A USB hub and a USB DVD drive, and yes, a pair of headphones (Earpods). I'm covered regardless of what kind of projector or customer equipment I need to interact with, but its a big bag of crap thats starting to dwarf the laptop they plug into.

Re:What's the point?

[phayes]

Take another look at the macbook and Apple's history. If they think that its is superfluous they cut it. Floppys, serial ports, optical drives, etc. Sometimes they're ahead of the curve but every time time you look back 5 years after furor has died down the rest of the major part of the market has cut them too.

Re:What's the point?

[phayes]

Apple land, Dell land, HP Land. Amazing how so many xxx lands there are now that use dongles without it being the insurmountable issue that some claimed would doom them to failure. It's almost if they were exaggerating.

A2DP vs HCP

[phorm]

Another thing people use wired PC headsets for is two-way conversations, which may including doing so while gaming.
The problem I've found with Bluetooth is that - while sound is pretty good with A2DP or another streaming mode - two-way audio uses HCP which is greatly inferior audio quality. I believe some devices can get around this by opening two channels, but in most cases this doesn't seem to work and you just end up with either no ability to speak/record, or shite audio.

Then again, these are MBP's, so perhaps gaming isn't such a concern anyhow.

Re:A2DP vs HCP

[MachineShedFred]

Perhaps not gaming, but this is a "pro" notebook, so having a VoIP conference call / video conference isn't exactly an edge case.

Re:A2DP vs HCP

[phorm]

Yup. But it's not so much an issue in a voice-only conversation. HCP was mainly designed for two-way voice conversations so it's OK on those, it's just really sh*tty for higher-quality audio.

The problem I have with bluetooth and gaming is that I have to choose either from an HCP profile so that I can talk to my teammates through the mic, which gives me really crappy game audio and background music (sounds like it's coming through an old phone), or I can go with A2DP and get good audio but need to use a separate microphone.

As mentioned, I believe some devices cheat this by connecting multiple channels to bluetooth, and showing up as separate devices for bi-directional audio VS music (so the HCP device becomes your "microphone", and the A2DP device your "speakers").

Re:A2DP vs HCP

[phayes]

If people really cared, there would be more HCP+A2DP devices. Maybe Apple pushing the market will generalize them. If it doesn't happen we'll know if more people than a voluble fringe really care or not.

Re:A2DP vs HCP

[phorm]

If people really cared, there would be more HCP+A2DP devices

Most people probably aren't even aware of the difference between HCP and A2DP. Hell, many people I know have issues getting their bluetooth devices to sync the first time around.
Guess what those people end up doing? They end up using a *gasp* WIRED device.

Thankfully, for PC's at least, there are still a variety of standard USB-based sound devices available

Re:A2DP vs HCP

[phayes]

Yeah it's certainly too bad that Apple didn't come out with a chip that makes bluetooth pairing easier...

I agree that BT is a classic designed by committee clearly suboptimal rats nest but if sound quality is as important to people as some claim, the chicken/egg problem of no market need to justify an easy to use, high quality solution is soon to be history.

Re:A2DP vs HCP

[thegarbz]

Pro? Most people video conference in the cheapest tablets they can find.

Really VoIP is not remotely an edge case for any device these days.

Terrible for iPhone users

[jettoblack]

Had the iPhone 7 switched from Lightning to USB-C, this would kind of make sense. Put USB-C ports on the laptops and now all accessories (chargers, headphones, displays, Thunderbolt, USB devices, etc.) could use the same port across all devices. But with the iP7 using Lightning, losing the Macbook headphone jack would really suck. You couldn't use Lightning headphones on the Macbook without an additional USB-C to Lightning female dongle (on top of your USB-C to Lightning male for charging your phone, USB-C to USB-A dongle(s) for regular USB devices like flash drives, USB-C to HDMI dongle for displays, etc.), and to use regular stereo jack headphones on both devices would require carrying 2 dongles. Most wireless headphones only pair to one device at a time so it would be super inconvenient to use the same wireless headphones on two devices.

Re:Terrible for iPhone users

[phayes]

Ah, yes because having a cable with lightning on one end and USB(-C) on the other has so impacted Apple's bottom line that they haven't made a profit in years.

I carry around a cable with a Type 1 on one end and a triple Dock/Micro/Lightning connectors on the other that I got as a freebie years ago & that I've used to charge iPads, iPhones, Android tablets etc.. it's been suuuch a hardship, oh woe is me.

Interference

[fluffernutter]

Has Apple solved the problem of wireless interference? As far as I know, a cable is the only cure for that.

Re:Interference

[tepples]

Has Apple solved the problem of wireless interference?

Not perfectly solved, but spread spectrum and multiple-access schemes have made the problem less noticeable. An actual solution would involve beamforming to make the transmission and reception more strongly directional.

Headphone Jack

[bestweasel]

They tried to destroy him.
The evil Corporation hunted him down. Followed every lead. Tried to plug him. Nowhere was safe - he had to pull out. But now, he's back, he's wired and looking to tangle.
Coming soon to a device near you.
Headphone Jack

In stereo.

Re:This wouldn't be a big deal in a different worl

[cdrudge]

They have a huge lock on the media market with the iTunes store

I'm an Android guy and haven't used iTunes in years but do they really have a LOCK on the media market? Is there really that much exclusive media that's only available in iTunes?

Options

[sjbe]

Geez, I actually use my MBP as my desktop for about 98% of the time, and it is hooked to my desktop speakers for listening to.... I'm supposed to fscking do THAT wireless too now?!?!

Only if you want to. You could go USB or thunderbolt pretty easily. I connect my laptops to a USB 3.0 docking station which has a 3.5mm jack built in when I'm using them at my desk. So that's a perfectly viable option when using a laptop as an ersatz desktop PC. Heck you're probably going to hook up a USB hub or peripherals anyway so why not just include the 3.5mm jack there? I could see it being annoying to not have it when you are traveling with a laptop but the arguments against removing it at the desk are pretty weak.

That said on a real desktop PC (Mac) I don't really see a good argument for removing the 3.5mm jack at this time. Neither space, power or cost are constraints and there is no advantage to the user in removing it unless you get something in return. None of those things apply to desktop PCs. I can at least see the argument on a smartphone whether or not I agree with it but those arguments don't apply to desktop machines.

Re:Options

[oh_my_080980980]

That's right Zippy, one size fits all. Paradigm shift, from consumer is always right, to consumer will accept whatever we fucking give them.

Re:Options

[MachineShedFred]

Yeah, one of the nice things about the MacBook Pro series, and PowerBook G4 before them, is that you didn't need a docking station to get around bad design. Starting with FireWire, and continuing with Mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt, you had one or two cables to plug in coming off of a display that had FireWire / USB hubs built in that also acted as a "docking station".

Well, Apple is no longer shipping displays that do this (and also conveniently provided the MagSafe power cable too). And now they are playing with the horrible idea of removing yet another port from a notebook computer that is allegedly designed for professionals, who use things like amplifiers.

I've been using a portable Mac since 1998, and this kind of decision making might force me to Lenovo.

Re:Options

[ruir]

I might actually change to a notebook from a BRICS country. If it has a processor other than Intel so much the better. I would prefer a MIPS, however the market is ripe with ARMs.
I was thinking for a long time of buying an Apple Mini, and I am not sorry of instead buying a chinese raspberry/ARM compatible with a SoC with SATA and an internal gibabit switch with 5 ethernet ports.
As for Lenovo, they whitelist components to force you to upgrade their wifi and network cards with Lenovo components, which can potentially create problems with Linux in very new models as the components are rebranded with a different manufacturer ID, and also have been caught with malware both at OS and firmware level. (...). I would seriously rethink that choice.

Re:Options

[macs4all]

That said on a real desktop PC (Mac) I don't really see a good argument for removing the 3.5mm jack at this time. Neither space, power or cost are constraints and there is no advantage to the user in removing it unless you get something in return. None of those things apply to desktop PCs. I can at least see the argument on a smartphone whether or not I agree with it but those arguments don't apply to desktop machines.

I'm absolutely with you on this!

On the iPhone, I could see the argument for removing the 3.5mm jack; but not on their flagship laptop. As you said, there are absolutely no space or water-resistance benefits to be gained, and the general "annoyance factor" of having to deal with an adapter/hub is simply not worth it.

Now, should the Mac line be upgraded to use the W1 chip? SURE! That's pretty much a no-brainer for those who want to use Bluetooth

And also, if Apple wants to put a Lightning port on their Macs, I think that makes perfect sense going forward. That way, you can use the same Lightning headset between your iPhone and your Mac. But for now, at least, I'd leave the 3.5mm jacks (which also support TOSLink, BTW) right where they are.

Re:Options

[Darinbob]

The history of the MacBook shows that every year there's a new unnecessary change, the ports will move around randomly, and at least one port will vanish.

Re:Options

[ausekilis]

It worked for Ford.. "Comes in any color you want, so long as it's black".

Re:Options

[Grim Beefer]

Uh....wait. Why are the arguments "weak"?

The argument for inclusion is that it's an industry standard and extremely convenient port that has no signs of going anywhere anytime soon, as far as the rest of the world is concerned. Headphones aren't going to suddenly stop being 3.5mm, nor are standard audio cables.

The arguments for removal....are what exactly? Maybe you'll get a 0.0001% increase in battery life or processing power? I guess it makes customers have to buy more shit to do the same thing they were already doing, which is good for Apple's bottom line? Or what?

Yeah, fuck that.

Re:Options

[Dusty101]

Mod parent up.

As a longtime Mac user, one of the things I *loved* about my old 12" Powerbook G4 was that it had *everything* in a small, portable computer in a footprint that'd fit on an Economy-class airliner tray: USB, Firewire, Ethernet, video out, audio jack, separate power socket. Even a DVD burner! Also, a good (non-Chiclet) keyboard. It was so refreshing to use, coming from a thin-&-light Toshiba Portege that required the use of dongles & expansion docks for almost everything.

Of course, it wasn't *thin*, which is apparently The Only Important Thing these days. :-(

Re:Options

[zedaroca]

Neither space, power or cost are constraints and there is no advantage to the user in removing it unless you get something in return

The exact argument you made about desktops is valid for the MBP. It's a large notebook, for people that want more than the bare minimum and accept extra weight and size for that. The extra weight and size of a minuscule hole isn't much BTW. There are lighter and more powerful notebooks than the MBA that have it.

Space, power and cost aren't really a problem in the MBA either, since we are talking about a headphone jack, but since it's a device made for people that want the least possible for the maximum amount of money, it makes sense.

Re:Options

[armanox]

I had high hopes for Lemote, as I too would prefer MIPS. Maybe a device could be made from a Creator CI40?

Re:Options

[ruir]

I too loved their MIPS idea in theory, however they do not seem very user/customer friendly on surface. And the device seems rather limited. I ended up buying a Lamobo R1 two years ago, and recently a couple of raspberry pi 3.

Re:Options

[Anonymous Coward]

it's gotta be annoying though in that once you go wireless you are inserting another layer to latency - especially if there are any conflicts if you are using ASIO, which won't matter to most people but if you are using the headphone as a monitor and a breakout soundcard it an be a problem if you are doing audio

Re:Options

[ruir]

(I also had high hopes for Longsoon but after the AMD project the thing seems mostly dead)

Found the LUDDITE!

[Anonymous Coward]

Only LUDDITES want to vote for LUDDITE Donald Trump. Modern app appers vote for Appald Trump, because he will make apps appy again!

Apps!

Ack, NO!!!

[RogueWarrior65]

You want a real suggestion? Bring back a 17" model. That'd be great, thanks.

Forget the audio jack, remove the display

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's about time had the "courage" to take the next step and remove the built in display from phones and laptops, it's not like anyone is really using them anyway. There are plenty alternatives:
Apple TV
A new Apple VR headset
A new Apple version of Google glass
or maybe only let Apple users see a display is they buy an extra, (Apple only of course) external display

Just imagine the computer/phone/tablet in your pocket, with a long battery life as it doesn't need to power the display, wirelessly linked to your external retina display.

(just to be clear, I'm being saracastic)

Re:Forget the audio jack, remove the display

[tepples]

Your sarcastic suggestion actually exists, in the form of an Apple Watch as a limited-function display for your iPhone.

Accessibility implications?

[mark-t]

Some people require headphones to use a device, and bluetooth may not always be an option. Removing the jack removes any ability to charge it while using headphones that are attached to its single USB-C port.

It's the exact same problem with the iPhone 7 and its single lightning port. Apple clearly doesn't have a fucking clue what it's doing anymore. They are so desperate to try and be industry leaders again that they are trying random shit that nobody seriously wants or will find useful as an effort to "think outside of the box", and it's not a good thing. For them or their customers.

Re:Accessibility implications?

[swb]

It would be awesome if somebody discovered that removing the headphone jack was a violation of the ADA because it placed an undue burden on handicapped people, and Apple was forced to add the jack back in.

I know, they provide a dongle which adds that functionality back in, and nobody is forced to choose an Apple device without a headphone jack, so it would never hold water, but it'd be hilarious if they had to not only pay taxes but also offer a model with a headphone jack.

Re:Accessibility implications?

[mark-t]

I know, they provide a dongle which adds that functionality back in

Yes, but if you should need actual headphones, that still doesn't allow you to use the device while charging it without requiring yet another dongle that costs about $40 to split one lightning port into two. So you have a dongle on a dongle, the combined size of them being longer than the iphone itself. This is bad for portability if you leaved them plugged in, and if you always unplug them when you aren't using them, the risk increases of accidentally losing one or the other or both.

The only reality where this move by Apple makes any kind of sense, even given their argument that the lightning port is arguably superior to the headphone jack in every way that envision it is, is one where nothing bad ever happens to anyone, ever.

Re:Accessibility implications?

[phayes]

If only it were _possible_ to use a cheap and ergonomic cable that would let you plug two cables into a single lightning port. Oh woe is us that the laws of the universe have made such a port impossible!

But hark, what is that I hear?! it _isn't_ impossible? *REJOICING*

Re:Accessibility implications?

[mark-t]

Depends on your definition of "cheap". Fpor the iphone, $40 is how much the Belkin lightning hub costs.

Anyways, using such a device reduces the device's portability if you leave it plugged in all the time, and has a higher chance of getting lost if you unplug it each time you don't need it. People that need headphones to use the device would generally otherwise leave their headphones plugged in all of the time on it as well.

Re:Accessibility implications?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is merit in this comment. I need an amp as many website's audio is too low for me to hear with my normal in-ear earphones. Similarly, some music/combined media stuff is not loud enough, or the video conference I'm on is too quiet, etc. I can't use external speakers as if I set them to my comfort level I've pissed off everybody near me.

Or, when we're traveling, I can carry a y-splitter and put the amp downstream the split to enable a normal-hearing individual share the video stream and each enjoy the audio stream. And this amp can easily switch between computer devices and my phone as needed, as can my in-ear and over-ear headphones. Apple's on drugs if they think I'm going to get all of this stuff replaced by wireless (wireless headphone amp?!) and then play pairing games ad infinitum.

Get a different laptop and go back to running Linux for work and Windows for office stuff. I went away from this in '04 or '05 when OS X came out. I can go back.

WAS going to buy the new model

[Anonymous Coward]

Waiting for the new Macbook Pro... Might be better to just grab one while they still have an audio jack. What an awful decision by them...

Re:WAS going to buy the new model

[UnknownSoldier]

That's what I did back in March of this year (2016). I needed a MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) with a nVidia GPU so I could do CUDA development.
A few months later I learnt there was another option: BizonBOX 2 eGPU.

Anyways, the current number of ports on the current MacBook Pro is _perfect_. I really hope Apple doesn't fuck this up.

Every day

[Malc]

Working with people in different offices, we use head phones every day. I've watched Windows users over the years constantly struggling with headphones and Skype and been very happy to be MBP based and just have it work. When you spend a lot of time on Skype and the like you really come to appreciate the value of good and working A/V equipment. The builtin mic is all part of the package with Apple headsets.

I don't really care if they get rid of the headphone socket, so long as they have a solution. Given that I get my headphones from my iPhone, I wouldn't be happy spending a tonne just getting a second headset for laptop. They also better not make me give up one of my other ports - I often have both USB-3 and both Thunderbolt ports in use, and I'm still left looking for a way to plug more things in sometimes. Ultimately it's a tradeoff but I think Apple has done reasonably well in balancing this up, at least in the MBP line. MacBooks with the single USB-C port that does both power and connectivity has no appeal.

DRM EVERYWHERE

[PopeRatzo]

The 3.5mm jack is nothing but a conduit for your stolen media, so suck it up. And you there with the 5000 CD collection. Don't be a commie and buy all that music again in iTunes, willya?

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to the company that wanted everyone to "Rip. Mix. Burn."?

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[phayes]

Apple doesn't sell DRM protected music anymore (and hastened it's demise).

Apple also makes it easy to upgrade most of that 5000 CD collection of poorly ripped 96-128kbit MP3s to high quality 256kbit non-DRMed AACs using iTune Match for a one time fee of $25.

But let's falsely pretend that Apple is only off to make a buck off people and every decision they make is to lock people down with DRM and make money off them.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[PopeRatzo]

Apple doesn't sell DRM protected music anymore (and hastened it's demise).

That's not strictly true.

But let's falsely pretend that Apple is only off to make a buck off people and every decision they make is to lock people down with DRM and make money off them.

You've got to be joking. Why do you think Apple exists? Do you believe they're the fucking United Way? OF COURSE THEY'RE ONLY IN IT TO MAKE A BUCK OFF PEOPLE, YOU GOOFBALL.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[phayes]

Apple doesn't sell DRM protected music anymore (and hastened it's demise).

That's not strictly true.

It's true enough if you look at the history of DRM in iTunes and aren't ideologically blinded.

But let's falsely pretend that Apple is only off to make a buck off people and every decision they make is to lock people down with DRM and make money off them.

You've got to be joking. Why do you think Apple exists? Do you believe they're the fucking United Way? OF COURSE THEY'RE ONLY IN IT TO MAKE A BUCK OFF PEOPLE, YOU GOOFBALL.

That Apple wants to make a buck off me does not imply that it is evil nor that I am unwilling if I deem the service worth the payment.

Now address the point I made about iTunes Match being Apple's gift to massively upgrade ones Napster collection for a modest amount.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[Anonymous Coward]

Please.

As noted in other comments, in the end the speaker in the headphones is electrically driven by all of 2 wires.

If Apple is doing this do enforce DRM (and I don't think they are), then they are even more idiotic than they appear. It would take about 2 minutes with some wire strippers, a 1/8" connector and a piece of electrical tape to convert a pair of wired lightning earbuds into a headphone jack.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[PopeRatzo]

Now address the point I made about iTunes Match being Apple's gift to massively upgrade ones Napster collection for a modest amount.

Does your iTunes Match collection belong to you? Do you think Apple is above deciding your music no longer belongs to you? It's happened before.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[mfearby]

My CD collection is ripped at mostly 192 to 256 kb and it's just fine. I don't trust Apple's iTunes Match thingy to replace all that music properly, and retain all my tags, etc. No way at all.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[ArtemaOne]

It belongs to the copyright holder, not to Apple or the customer, but it is DRM free and sits on my computer, as well as being mirrored on the Apple service. If Apple takes their end away, I will still have my DRM free copy.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[phayes]

Now address the point I made about iTunes Match being Apple's gift to massively upgrade ones Napster collection for a modest amount.

Does your iTunes Match collection belong to you? Do you think Apple is above deciding your music no longer belongs to you? It's happened before.

Yes, all the music that I placed in iTune Match is mine to do with as I want.
You purchase iTunes Match.
You tell iTunes to add all your music to it, it matches 60-80% of it (Not everything gets matched - better quality matches better up to a point but very high quality Flacs/ALACS dont match at all) & the rest gets uploaded. There is a limit of 100k tracks to iTunes Match and if you're coming close to that I'd suggest matching only the songs you like and not just everything.
You make a Smart playlist containing all the matched music that's under 320kbit MP3 or 256kbit AAC and you delete the local copy (Not trusting anything to be 100% reliable you copied it all elsewhere before signing up ti iTunes Match).
You select all the music that is only in the cloud & you download it them.
iTunes downloads pristine copies as if you had purchased them using the iTunes store - No DRM but there is a tag with your Apple ID.
If it bugs you, you use a tag editor to remove or edit the tags.

iTunes Match lasts for a year (unless renewed), after which the music in the cloud is no longer downloadable -- but your local copies don't magically disappear and again, there is no DRM on them. Apple cannot pull the music back from me, the iTunes Match contract doesn't give them the right to do so and Apple doesn't have the means to do so as I've already copied it elsewhere if they tried to pull an Amazon and delete it from my devices, which again they cannot do as the tracks are not DRM protected.

Do you want to try telling me how Apple, the soul sucking corporate entity you pretend it is is NOT giving you a good deal here? You're either going to play semantic games or admit that you were wrong.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[phayes]

yeah sure, let your prejudices stop you if that makes you feel better about yourself.

Most of my collection is now ALACs (used to be FLACS but ALACs are equivalent & work better with my devices).

I didn't completely trust Apple when I tried out Match either so I made a copy before matching everything and used other tools to check everything. The one problem one can encounter with iTunes Match (beyond it not matching everything you'd want it to) is that it can match other versions of songs than the one you had originally. Say you have a bunch of albums from an artist who has performed different versions of some songs on different albums. If you don't pay attention you can lose some versions when you remove your originally ripped version & download the matched version from the cloud. If you do pay attention & kept a copy of the original tracks, it's not a problem.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[Anonymous Coward]

It's bitztream, the autism-hating Slashdot troll!

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[thegarbz]

This:

Apple doesn't sell DRM protected music anymore

has nothing to do with this:

But let's falsely pretend that Apple is only off to make a buck off people

No they aren't doing this for DRM
Yes they are most definitely trying to make a buck off people.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[phayes]

Do try to follow and get your attributions right will you?

Poperatzo is the one who tried to argue that Apple is removing the jack to force people to buy DRMed music to replace their napster collection of MP3s. [cue spooky/evil music]

I'm the one telling him that Apple pushed for the end of DRMed music and has made it possible for years for people to upgrade most of their ratty old MP3s into high quality apple store versions for a small one time fee. Oh, yeah, upgrading 60000-80000 tracks for $25 that's really making a buck off of people...

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[thegarbz]

Do try to follow and get your attributions right will you?

I did. Clearly something wasn't communicated very well.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[phayes]

Neither Poperatzo nor I had a problem following the context. Ah but it's not conceivable that the problem is between your ears, so it it must be elsewhere...

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[mfearby]

You've just described in detail why my reaction is not prejudice at all, but a very wise position. I have over a thousand CDs of classical music, and I DO have several different recordings of the same work, so there's no way I'm going to toss the whole lot up in the air and spend the rest of my life verifying whether each track is correct or not. Why fix what ain't broke?

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[phayes]

You start off claiming that your CD collection is "ripped mostly at 192 to 256" and now claim that you have "over 1000" classical music CDs...

Where was it that I heard a similarly laughably contradictory statement? Ah yeah it was that self described wine expert that added club soda to his glass.

Everyone with that many classical musical CDs would be listening to them in their original quality and be using FLAC/ALAC, not someone wanting to upgrade tens of thousands of tracks of napster music.

Thanks for exposing yourself as a fraud as well as prejudiced.

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[mfearby]

I would welcome an audit from the relevant authorities. I have stacks of CDs all over the place as I've been buying them like crazy from prestoclassical.co.uk in recent years given the excellent exchange rates (and their specials!). I tried Napster back in the day, getting 92 and 128kbps MP3 files. All deleted now because they're crap. 192-256kbps MP3s ripped from CD in iTunes are just fine. I can't really tell the difference with FLAC anyway, and certainly don't welcome the extra hard disk space required to store them (or having to re-rip the lot!).

Nose Dive

[AdelieMan]

Looks like Apple is going back to roots, stubbornly refusing to give consumers what they want, and doing nothing worthwhile, while the completion blows them away and makes them irrelevant. It’s only a matter of time before only a few people stick to them, like they did in the pc wars, and like some did with Betamax.

Re:Nose Dive

[Grishnakh]

How is the competition "blowing them away", especially with turds like Windows 10?

If you mean Android, that has its issues too, but it doesn't really matter if it's still far and away better/cheaper than iPhones because Apple users will not abandon Apple, no matter what. Those absurdly-high price tags on their devices guarantee that Apple stuff is the best, after all, even if it means they're forced into buying ultra-expensive Beats wireless headphone to listen to music on them.

Soo very courageous

[Joska]

These folks have courage to burn. Pressuring people to use wireless headphones with the inevitable added distortion of a transmitter and receiver together with the special joy of having to recharge its batteries is all so very admirable. Since forums are filled with accounts of the Lightning charging cable failing after three months, how long may we expect the headphone dongle to last? Voila, another revenue stream. There is more to their glorious courage though, since it turns out that as recently as 2011 but very likely to this day for all I know, they were still making Macbook batteries that swell and wreck the device from the inside, with the stiff middle finger for anyone who thought they were entitled to any sort of compensation. True innovators, they are the only company to have perfected the swelling battery tech with the feature being unavailable from any other OEM or aftermarket battery supplier at any price. This is presumably part of a well planned strategy to save their precious customers from the embarrassment of being seen in public with a pathetic old relic sporting the ancient and obsolete headphone jack into which just any old headphone may be connected. See, thoughtful and considerate in addition to courageous. TC deserves a medal of valor for such bravery. Horatio at the bridge has nothing on him. P:

Sound and fury signifying nothing

[sjbe]

Getting rid of the headphone jack on all Apple's products will be suicide for them.

You keep telling yourself that. This is not Apple's first rodeo with removing interfaces that others were reluctant to part with. While no one knows for certain, all indications so far seem to be that all the furor over the headphone jack really won't affect Apple's sales to any significant degree. There are real threats to Apple's business but this is highly unlikely to be among them. Apple has never tried to be all things to all people and if you really need that jack there are options available to you. Personally I cut the cord for laptop and smartphone audio headphones some time ago and I haven't missed them yet.

Personally I don't really care. I'm actually happy to see the number of cables on my devices reduced by one since I don't really use the 3.5mm jack. You may feel differently of course and that's fine but I'm looking forward to the day when we don't have to deal with separate cable types for monitors, peripherals, power, network, etc. I want to have to carry just one well designed type of cable. I make my living making and selling specialty wire harnesses and I think most of them are just wasteful.

Re: Sound and fury signifying nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

So you don't personally use it therefore removing it is the right decision. Most people no longer use optical drives on notebooks, certainly not floppy drives, and a good number do not use wired ethernet because, unlike Bluetooth and audio, wireless networking is perfectly fine for things that most people do with notebooks.

The point here is that unlike the other removed interfaces this one is not obsolete and replaced by superior technology. (The only superior technology might be a smaller analog connector).

Lots of people use headphone jacks, and it is a superior solution in terms of sound quality and in many cases the only solution that works. Unless of course you buy a dongle and yet another cable and end up with a mess taking up a valuable data port that Apple already gives you too few of. Unless you get a hub. And more cables....

But none of this affects you personally so it must be fine to force it on others.

Jackass.

Re: Sound and fury signifying nothing

[phayes]

Ah yes, analog technology that's the future. in the years to come everyone will abandon digital and move to analog because an anonymous coward on /. says so.

Re: Sound and fury signifying nothing

[Grishnakh]

Nothing's being forced on anyone. If you don't like the new headphone-jack-less iDevices, don't buy one.

The thing is, this isn't going to hurt their sales one iota, and will increase profitability, so why shouldn't they do it?

Re: Sound and fury signifying nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

How exactly is removing a port you don't use going to reduce the numver of cables to your devices?

Re: Sound and fury signifying nothing

[kaatochacha]

Companies that behave like that, ignoring customers and doing whatever they want, are fine for a long time. Then, suddenly, sales fall and everyone stands around wondering what the hell happened. It's a gradual process that eventually goes over a cliff, and once it happens there's no turning it around.

Ask Blackberry.
Ask DEC
etc...

Re: Sound and fury signifying nothing

[Grishnakh]

Maybe. I'm not so sure. One big difference with those other two is that those two catered to businesses, exclusively in the case of DEC. Blackberry's whole raison d'etre was mobile enterprise email. It was secure, which was why the US government loved them so much. But they missed the boat with Android/iOS smartphones and their apps, and became mostly obsolete. They tried to get into the consumer space but didn't get far there. DEC made minicomputers for big businesses. Businesses just aren't like consumers; they don't care much about fashion, but they are very averse to going with trendy new vendors: "no one got fired for buying XYZ" (IBM, DEC, Microsoft, etc.). Once something proves itself in the enterprise space (even if it's crap) and gets entrenched, it's pretty hard to unseat, but when it does finally become obsolete, or the alternatives are just so much better/cheaper that businesses can't ignore them any more and keep buying from the overpriced vendors, then that company is dead. That's what happened to IBM and DEC, and more recently Blackberry. It might happen to Microsoft, but I doubt it'll be any time soon, though Linux has certainly made big inroads in the server space. Apple just isn't like this: they're a fashion accessory for consumers with too much money to spend and no sense of frugality or value. And they don't cater to businesses at all really; there's a few weird little companies that use MacBooks, but they're rare, and they don't make servers, enterprise-grade software, etc. Of course, you can say that consumers are fickle, but there's a bunch of fashion clothing companies that have been around for ages: Ralph Lauren, DKNY, Armani, etc., and don't seem to have any trouble continuing to command premium prices for their stuff. As long as Apple doesn't get too far behind in technology and features, and continues to put themselves out there as the "premium brand", I can see them going on like this for a long time.

Don't be surprised

[theinfamousgeek]

I see iPhone 7's and MacBook Pros taking a significant hit in sales if they go all in, and continue to charge outrageous prices for the 3.5mm headset jack adapters.

So much for being useful for music

[Khyber]

Apple doesn't make studio-quality headphones (Beats are anything but neutral) so this is going to piss off anyone using studio-grade monitors/headphones. And BlueTooth doesn't provide any fidelity worth a shit for mastering at half the bitrate of a standard audio CD.

So much for being useful for music. Not like I ever used them, as I have dedicated hardware DAWs.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[radish]

To be honest the headphone jack on those machines is pretty crappy anyway. If you're serious about audio you're already using an offboard USB DAC.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[UnknownSoldier]

It isn't about being "best" -- it is about convenience.

Nickeling-and-diming users another ~$40 on a ~$2,000 machine rubs people the wrong way.

Making people carry yet-anther-adopter is bone headed myopic.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[Rakshasa Taisab]

"Studio-quality headphones" -> "Those use USB DAC anyway" -> "BUT WHAT ABOUT CONVENIENCE!!!"

Nice comment. You are in the running for the special league.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[Type44Q]

If you're serious about audio you're already using an offboard USB DAC

Or optical S/PDIF, if you're not partial to jitter...

Re:So much for being useful for music

[Megane]

I wouldn't exactly call the mini headphone jack studio-quality to begin with. You can get USB sound dongles from $10 for a cheap dongle with 3.5mm jacks, to $40 for a 7.1 with multiple headphone jacks, or $40 for a 2-in 4-out DJ unit with RCA plugs, and you can get pro ones with a better better quality ADC/DAC and XLR/TRS jacks for a (big) chunk of change more. Or even a full USB mixer panel.

If you're using a laptop, you probably want a docked set-up for studio work anyhow, and USB means less plugs to connect. On my Late-2011-17", I rarely use headphones just for playing music (this ain't no iPod that you stick in your pocket), but I do have a USB unit (with proper RCA jacks) wired to my home theater audio stuff when I want to hear music on real speakers, and I get amplifier headroom for the bad source levels often found with streaming.

On a laptop, I'd be fine with an extra USB port instead of a headphone jack. I can always plug in a cheap tiny dongle if I need headphone audio. And on a desktop, who cares? I'd probably use optical on a desktop. Looking at the panel space they take up, if they also remove the line-in, that's more than enough for another USB-A port, or maybe even enough for two USB-C ports.

A cell phone is different because there aren't a lot of generic USB ports to slap adapters on. (Cue picture of the Lightning headphone dongle that won't let you charge at the same time.) Also, the headphone jack credit card readers are quite common among nomadic retailers. Perhaps a brick dongle that plugs into Lightning with a credit card slot, headphone jack, and charging port? It could even have a smart card chip reader! Those Square things do seem kind of flimsy to me.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[Khyber]

"If you're serious about audio you're already using an offboard USB DAC."

Not if you're sensitive to latency, you're not.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhh... quiet or they'll remove USB connectors too xD

Re:So much for being useful for music

[UnknownSoldier]

Why would use a USB DAC which has crappy latency???

You do realize that the MacBook Pro has an S/PDIF Digital Optical Audio on the 3.5mm jack, right?

Monoprice even sells a S/PDIF Digital Optical Audio Cable, Toslink to Mini Toslink starting at $2.13.

Mod parent -1 over-rated.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also an optical audio out tho, which is pretty useful.

Proves the lie

[Holi]

All this does is show the world that Apple was lying through their teeth when they said it was about making room for more battery. Not sure what space they are going to save in the iMac or the Mac Pro.

Re:Proves the lie

[phayes]

Take another look at the recent macbook. How many connectors did Apple leave on it that they didn't think were absolutely necessary?

I assume that your computer has Centronics, 25 pin serial, 9 pin serial, SCART, EGA, VGA, AT keyboard, microphone, Micro AT keyboard, s-Video, SCSI, eSATA, TOSlink, 5.1 audio, Display port & Firewire 400+800, Thunderbolt 1+2 and HDMI ports? Well why the hell not!? They're all sooo useful?!?!

Samsung needs to hire the Verizon/Sprint guy

[Anonymous Coward]

"Can you hear me now Apple? No? GOOD"

Re:Samsung needs to hire the Verizon/Sprint guy

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung can't hear anything over the exploding Note 7s...

Digital Audio out (S/PDIF, TOSLINK)

[daniel.daugherty]

The headphone jack on most macs is also a digital audio out (S/PDIF, TOSLINK). This provides a HIGH quality digital audio out of the mac. That can be run into other gear.

Re:Digital Audio out (S/PDIF, TOSLINK)

[Anonymous Coward]

This hasn't been the case for a while... at least modern mac book pros don't have a digital audio out.

Re:Digital Audio out (S/PDIF, TOSLINK)

[Anonymous Coward]

Incorrect. It's hidden inside the audio jack and needs a special hard to find TOSlink cable that plus into the jack port.

First things first

[Anonymous Coward]

That's great news! I didn't think they were ever going to release a new MBP! Can it have a processor upgrade as well?

Wireless headphones suck if you have to talk

[lusid1]

They're adequate for listening, but if you do anything where people need to hear you, like webex meetings, conference calls, distance learning, etc, wireless headphones just make you look (or rather sound) bad. Nobody can take you seriously if you sound like you're calling from an offshore call center. It doesn't matter how courageous the wireless chip is when someone uses the microwave while you're trying to talk to a client.

Buried the lead?

[cvdwl]

Actually, I think the demise of the USB-A ports is a bigger issue for me; I haven't just thrown out all my USB-A stuff, and suddenly I'm doubling up on adapters for every drive, DAC, dock, etc. that I currently own.

I guess as long as it's shiny and silver I'll still buy one...

Times they are a changin'

[sjbe]

Most of the Bluetooth headphones that I have used only like to be paired to one device at a time.

Not universally true and that will change pretty quickly I think. The bluetooth headphones I use can connect up to ten devices. I would expect that to go downmarket pretty fast. Apple's actions have effectively created a market and the void should fill up in short order I expect.

Yup, cash grab

[Anonymous Coward]

They need to keep growing their profits every way possible. They own Beats which dominate the bluetooth headphone market and bluetooth headphones earn more profits than standard, wired headphones, not to mention are more likely to be lost requiring more replacement purchases. I honestly like MacBooks and prefer OS X over Windows and Linux, but fuck this.

I use it more than any port except the charger

[j2.718ff]

I own a (older) Macbook Air, an Android phone, and a Sandisk mp3 player. I use the same pair of earphones interchangeably between these devices. (Actually, I have a few pairs for different environments.) I've never needed any kind of special dongle (unless you count the charger, though both my phone and mp3 player charge via micro USB). I really like my Macbook, but if they keep pulling crap like this, my next laptop won't be made by Apple.

Re:I use it more than any port except the charger

[Anonymous Coward]

Same. I travel with an iPod Classic, a Nintendo 3DS, and my MacBook and I use the headphones with all of them. I don't want to carry multiple sets of headphones, and while I personally don't care if the adapter were included for free I dislike paying more for additional hardware that used to come standard. I use the Macbook HDMI port, SD card reader, and so forth regularly. I even used the microphone port on my older iMac which has since been removed, much to my dismay. I buy a lot of 7" records which can't be bought (or pirated) as MP3s, so if I don't make 'em I don't get to hear 'em.

Customers are routinely wrong

[sjbe]

That's right Zippy, one size fits all

Sometimes it does. There are very good reasons why we have standardized interfaces for all sorts of things. The only time to have a specialty single purpose interface is if there are no viable alternative options. Fortunately for hipsters who want to be different just to make a point there are plenty of other options for headphone jacks out there besides the offerings from Apple. If Apple's offerings don't fit your needs, do what I did and buy something else for whatever application you are working on. Trust me, nobody will mind.

Paradigm shift, from consumer is always right, to consumer will accept whatever we fucking give them.

Anyone who thinks the customer is always right has never had to deal with an actual customer. Customers are wrong all the frickin' time. Catering excessively to customers who are wrong is a great way to go bankrupt. Henry Ford put it best when he said "If I asked my customers what they wanted they would have said 'a faster horse'".

Re:Customers are routinely wrong

[BronsCon]

No, the customer is always right. If they're not paying you, they're not a customer, so if you can't bill them for what they want (and again for what they really wanted), they're no a customer.

Example:

When I used to work in a convenience store, a guy came in who I'd never seen before, demanding a free soda because "the cups cost a nickle and the soda costs two cents, why do you care? It's good customer service." My response was plainly "And I'd happily do it for a good customer, but you've never spent a cent here and aren't intending to make a purchase, so you're not a customer at all." He, then, decided to walk over and grab a pack of gum; meanwhile, I rang up the customer behind him, one of my regulars, and gave him a free soda just to make a point. The original "customer" comes back with a pack of gum and expects that his one-time purchase will entitle him to a free soda, an expectation which was met with the following: "Once I've seen you in here a few times and you happen to be next in line behind someone looking for a handout, we'll talk."

He got the message. He also became a regular and would hang out when I was on a night shift to keep me company, since they often had me working alone late at night. Yes, that did net him many a free soda, but snacks were always on him.

And this anecdote, which is more relevant to tech:

I had a client insist that a program I developed for them work one way, while their business logic was entirely different. I pointed out the discrepancy once and left the decision to them. They chose to go ahead as originally planned. I warned them that, should their decision prove to be incorrect, they'd still have to pay for my work, as well as any work necessary (which I informed them would likely be more than the original project) to correct it. They agreed, which made them a customer for both the original project and the fix, which made them right.

And right they were. I did want to implement it the way they insisted. And I did want to fix it. The fix cost twice as much as the original work; who would argue with a customer wanting to triple their billable hours?

Now, had they not agreed, up-front, to the potential cost of correcting the issue I brought to their attention should the project go forward as planned, the likelihood of them not paying at all would have shot through the roof and they'd have been neither customers nor right.

Re:Customers are routinely wrong

[kaatochacha]

In a roundabout way, he did give them a faster horse.

Re: Customers are routinely wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool story bro. Not.

Re: Customers are routinely wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice addition to the conversation, bro. Not.

Re:Customers are routinely wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Re:Customers are routinely wrong

[graphius]

I was at a business seminar years ago (yeah I know...) where the presenter said the customer is not always right, but they are always the customer. I have often given a customer a better option than what they thought they wanted, but I treated them with respect and they trusted me.

In your first example, you got lucky, you treated a dick like a dick, and he respected you for it.

In your second example you did your customer a huge disservice and charged them double what you should have charged them if you had explained the situation better.

Part of being in business is finding out what a customer REALLY wants, not what they say they want... And no it is not always easy, and yes, sometimes you have to cave and let the customer learn the hard way...

Re:Customers are routinely wrong

[BronsCon]

In my first example, I was working a minimum wage job and it wasn't worth the effort to treat him any differently. In the second, the client is one with whom I have a long history and who literally refuses to make any changes to what they're asking for; I'd already done that dance with them on past projects, this time around I knew better.

Yes, it's always best to give your customers what is best for them, but if you can't get them to take it you give them what they ask for. They've also, since, come around to the idea that I might actually understand their business (better than they do in many cases) and know what I'm talking about; it only took 8 or so such projects before they started listening to me.

You seem to think it was disrespectful of me to take money they insisted on giving me; on the contrary, it would have been disrespectful to push them and argue with them once they had made their decision. I explained how what they were asking for didn't fit their needs (which they acknowledged), explained what I believed their needs were (which they agreed with), explained what would be provided by what they were asking for (which they also agreed with), and explained that the cost to take and application created to do what they were asking and modify it to do what they actually need would cost more than initially developing the applications correctly in the first place. Pushing beyond that would have been disrespectful.

That presenter was partially right, though; the customer is always the customer. He just failed to define "customer". He also failed to define "right".

Smart bomb

[tepples]

every crappy PA comes with BT

BT? We came to drop bombs, calling every man to arms.

Re:Smart bomb

[Anonymous Coward]

Back on the set and covering all bets... -PCP

Idiot Executives

[nwaack]

I bet if you asked all the regular employees at Apple the vast majority of them would say this anti-headphone jack thing is a terrible idea. This is either A) A brilliant plan by Apple executives to get their golden parachutes, or B) the people that run Apple are total idiots.

Re:Idiot Executives

[phayes]

But, that's the way it has always worked at Apple. They vote on EVERYTHING and neither Steve Jobs nor Tim Cook nor Johnny Ive or anyone of their execs ever take part in decisions. It's DEMOCRACY at it's best!

They voted to remove the floppy in the 68K Macs.
They voted to remove optical drives in the rMBP.
They voted to replace Serial ports with USB.
They voted to not put Flash in iPhones or iPads.
They voted to not have a physical keyboard in the iPhone when everybody KNEW that it was folly.

It's uncanny how often they've voted the way the market was about to turn.

On an anti-roll

[MAXOMENOS]

• No touch screen on next model
• No headphone jack on next model
• Power cord insulation on current model starts flaking off two years in

Not feeling the love.

Why?

[j2.718ff]

So the 3.5mm jack takes up too much space in a device meant to fit in your pocket. I'm not sure I agree with the decision, but I follow the reasoning. And an RJ-45 port for ethernet would have made Macbooks too thick. Yes, this is true, and I have a thunderbolt-to-ethernet adapter plugged into my Macbook at work. What possible reason could there be to eliminate a 3.5mm port on a laptop? Is it too big? Really? My laptop's screen and keyboard don't have to go completely to the edge of the case - I can deal with a small border. I can deal with a few extra cubic centimeters in the computer reserved for various ports if it means I don't have to carry about a special dongle.

While we're at it, how about asking customers how often they use the letter 'x'? Think of how much space could be saved if we just removed that one key! (Don't worry, you can still type 'ks' to get the same phonetic sound.) Now that I think of it, 'c' is redundant too - we kan get by with the letters 'k' and 's' there as well.

If it's really just about size, why not try using a 2.5mm jack instead? At least any converters wouldn't need any proprietary technology. Just because I don't use it all the time doesn't mean I don't need it.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

What possible reason could there be to eliminate a 3.5mm port on a laptop?

I, for one, am looking forward to buying a waterproof and fully courage-compatible MBP.

Have fun clinging to The Dark Ages, Luddite.

Tried GNUstep?

[tepples]

being an Apple developer I can't just switch to some laptop running Linux.

In theory, you could try coding your Mac apps for GNUstep, a free clone of most of Cocoa. (Cocoa is derived from the reference implementation of OpenStep, and GNUstep is a reimplementation of OpenStep.) Then solve incompatibilities with macOS on a separate desktop Mac (Mac mini or iMac) at home or at the office. The bonus is that you get Linux/Mac cross-compatibility for a large percentage of your application's functionality.

Worn headphone jack or cable or connector

[fyngyrz]

What? Things wear out? What??? UNPOSSIBLE!

Plus, I have news for you: A middling quality headphone jack is of far higher quality and average lifetime than any USB jack ever manufactured. A truly high quality headphone jack is darned near bulletproof. USB jacks and connectors and cables are connectivity and structural strength fails from word one. Particularly the smaller types. Plus, when the user's USB jack wears out sooner because they've regularly been jamming headphones into it and then putting various stresses on the USB cable, as well as plugging in the charging cord every day or so, they won't just lose the ability to use wired headphones. They'll lose the ability to charge their phone. Because Apple's still far behind the crowd on wireless charging. Me, I just put my phone on the cradle and it charges, no physical connection to the phone required. I've owned my phone for months now and have yet to plug anything into the stinking USB jack. So it isn't broken. Yet. But anyway.

If you don't want wires, bluetooth is already there. Bingo, no connection, no wear and tear. If anything wears out, it'll almost certainly be your relatively less expensive headphones / earbuds. If you do want wires (and frankly, an analog connection via the headphone jack will provide better quality audio), the headphone jack is a far more reliable choice than any USB jack ever conceived. And your phone will almost certainly last longer, too. Say... you don't think Apple might have been tucking a little planned obsolescence in there, do you? No, couldn't be!

Nah, Apple's just being an idiot about this. But hey, they thought a trashcan and a bunch of desk warts was "professional", so at least they're being consistent in their blundering along the path of abject stupidity.

Re:Worn headphone jack or cable or connector

[Grishnakh]

Nah, Apple's just being an idiot about this. But hey, they thought a trashcan and a bunch of desk warts was "professional", so at least they're being consistent in their blundering along the path of abject stupidity.

There's nothing stupid about this; it's a very smart move, and considering they're the most profitable company in the world, calling their management decisions "stupid" seems rather disconnected.

If you don't want wires, bluetooth is already there.

Yes, but the jack itself takes up space and costs money to build in. They can improve profits by leaving it out.

If anything wears out, it'll almost certainly be your relatively less expensive headphones / earbuds.

Why should Apple care about saving its users money when things wear out?

And your phone will almost certainly last longer, too.

Why would they care about that?

Look, it's simple: every good Apple user is going to buy a brand-new iPhone every 2 years, so that's as long as they need to last. Leaving out the headphone port is smart: it saves money and increases profits, and then increases profits even more because Apple users will then toss out their old headphones and buy brand-new wireless Beats headphones for hundreds of dollars, or perhaps a set of wired headphones that use a Lightning connector, which Apple makes money on the licenses of. If they wear out their lightning connector, they'll just buy a new iPhone (or if they break the cable side, they'll buy a new cable from the Apple store for the low price of $30...).

Reading people like you rant and rave about Apple's moves is rather entertaining. You clearly just don't get it.

Re:Worn headphone jack or cable or connector

[mjwx]

What? Things wear out? What??? UNPOSSIBLE!

Shock horror... Li-ion/po batteries aren't the least of which.

Batteries are only supposed to last so many charge cycles before dying. Cells die, batteries ignore them, capacity is reduced. Smaller batteries are worse than larger batteries as you cant put as many individual cells in them.

Considering that headphones are tiny, they're going to have tiny batteries that will last a few hours at best, so instead of having headphones plugged into a device that weighs 100g, Apple fanboys are going to have the charging cables plugged into a battery pack that weighs 500g and then have their 100g device in another pocket.

Also, the 3.5mm jack was designed that the plug... or more specifically the connector to the plug (that bit with the plastic fins on it) would wear out first. That being said, the last pair of headphones I replaced, were replaced due to the material around the earpieces fading... took about 4 years and they still worked, but I decided I'd go and buy another set of Senn's because I was so satisfied with these $50 headphones that had lasted years. In 25 years of using a 3.5mm jack, I've never even heard of one breaking without some very serious force applied by some idiot.

Re:Worn headphone jack or cable or connector

[kaatochacha]

Essentially, here's the big question:
Will increased sales of apple wireless headphones be larger than apple's loss of sales of iphones due to lack of headphone jack?

Re:Worn headphone jack or cable or connector

[Grishnakh]

Exactly. Of course, none of us actually know the answer to that without a time machine, but personally I think the answer is likely yes. I'd rather it be no, in fact I'd rather see the company falter badly, but from what I've seen of the market and Apple buyers, I just don't think that's going to happen, just like I would have loved to have seen Microsoft go out of business because of Windows 10, but instead they're doing just fine despite many customers being totally pissed about their shenanigans there. With the amount of lock-in these companies have, I think it's going to take a lot more than the current user-hostile moves to cause these companies to suffer any real loss in business.

And by Exploring, we mean it's gonna happen.

[hodet]

Deal with it.

Overpriced outdated crap, now jack-less

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Macbooks *are* overpriced, outdated hardware. Apple is really bad at keeping the firmware up-to-date (shipping microcode that is known to be faulty, really? and with the weirdest UEFI implementation to ever exist on top of it?).

They are also an insult to everyone that ever cared about the environment, since they are maintenance-less in the "junk the whole thing instead of repairing it", or at least damn close to that (parts glued to the chassis, *really*?!)...

And now, you wont even be able to plug a damn headphone with a microphone into the blasted thing? Oh boy...

They have *already* decided to do it. IMHO.

[JamesNorton]

They did it with their next phone, why wouldn't they do it to their entire array of devices where it makes sense?

Use what fits

[sjbe]

Yeah, one of the nice things about the MacBook Pro series, and PowerBook G4 before them, is that you didn't need a docking station to get around bad design.

I don't agree with your assertion that removing ports axiomatically equals bad design. It can but doesn't have to.

Starting with FireWire, and continuing with Mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt, you had one or two cables to plug in coming off of a display that had FireWire / USB hubs built in that also acted as a "docking station".

You appear to contradict yourself. You argue that having lots of ports on the laptop is good design and then admit that you plug it into a de-facto docking station anyway. So by your own admission all those excess ports are unnecessary.

Do you really want to carry more cords when you travel? I don't. That's when I make heavy use of wireless stuff when possible. And when you are at a desk do you really care if there are lots of cables as long as you don't have to handle more than 1-2 of them? I don't. That's when I use a docking station and route all the cables neatly under the desk. Apple seems to grasp this.

I've been using a portable Mac since 1998, and this kind of decision making might force me to Lenovo.

Lenovo? Good luck with that. Given their recent actions I wouldn't touch Lenovo with a barge pole. Here's the thing. Your needs/wants may or may not align with what Apple's customer base needs/wants. I have a few pieces of Apple gear but much of my equipment is for stuff that Apple's offerings don't fit well with so I bought something else. Buy what you need and if that happens to be something that Apple makes, great! I am under no illusions that Apple is under any obligation to design products specifically for my needs. It's a pleasant surprise when they do but I don't expect it.

Re:Use what fits

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really want to carry more cords when you travel? I don't. That's when I make heavy use of wireless stuff when possible.

And how do you charge all these wireless devices, Mr. smartypants?

Re:Use what fits

[BronsCon]

You appear to contradict yourself.

Actually, if you take a moment to think about what he's saying, it makes perfect sense.

In a laptop machine that is often used in a desktop environment, you want the ability to have the hubs and docks permanently set up in those locations so you only have to plug in power and the hub/dock at your desk, where you'll likely be using that machine 5 or more days per week. This makes your daily setup/takedown of the machine much simpler.

On the other hand, as it's a portable machine, you also want those ports available directly on the machine itself, so you don't have to carry the hub/dock with you in order to have the functionality those ports provide.

Re:Use what fits

[epyT-R]

Ever thought of having a dock AND having lots of IO on the machine? This provides lots of IO at remote sites and the ability to easily de/reintegrate with a home workstation setup.

Re:This wouldn't be a big deal in a different worl

[tepples]

Is there really that much exclusive media that's only available in iTunes?

They did. For a long time, the album Sehnsucht by Rammstein wasn't available on Google Play or Amazon Music, only iTunes. And even now, there are plenty of iOS-exclusive games that haven't been ported to Android, such as Tiny Wings.

Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the MacBook Pro has more than enough space for a headphone jack, both internally and on the side, this reveals the real reason. No, it's not "new technology." Bluetooth headsets are ancient. It certainly isn't public demand. BT headsets simply aren't that popular.

It's all about Beats, the largest seller of such headsets. Now that Apple owns it, it wants to force users to buy from Beats.

Or, in a word, the reason for these changes is greed. It's why I'm on the lookout for an alternative technology path, one that excludes Apple's overpriced but increasingly stripped down products.

80% of the Macbook headphone jacks I have seen

[Anonymous Coward]

...are plugged into mixing boards, because Mac is still the gold standard for live productions of all kinds, large and small. The other 20% are plugged into projectors for presentations.

The people who buy these will budget for them, just like they had to budget for USB hubs when the port count dropped too low to accommodate all the equipment needed for production. This is just an extension of Apple's existing policy to require small, easy-to-lose dongles for everything, further adding to the cost of the computer.

from a design perspective

[globaljustin]

I have bluetooth headphones.

Just because *you* personally own bluetooth headphones means nothing to this discussion.

Bluetooth is not a permanent replacement for wired audio. It has a quality limit, and people need to be able to use their headphones longer than 5 hours without charging.

Removing compatibility and functionality is not 'innovation' nor is it good design.

Re:from a design perspective

[Grishnakh]

Removing compatibility and functionality is not 'innovation' nor is it good design.

Yes, it is, when it makes your company more profit.

people need to be able to use their headphones longer than 5 hours without charging.

No, they don't *need* any such thing. Apple users will happily change their expectations to match Apple's prescribed use-cases.

Look at that stock price though!

[johnwfran]

APPL is skyrocketing as investors salivate at even more platform lock in. Truly it is an ill wind that blows no one some good.

well then....

[Anonymous Coward]

that laptop damn well better be ipv6 waterproof...

Thanks Apple!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please give me more reminders about why to never buy your products! PLEASE!!! (Work provided iPhone aside, I learned my lesson after the Newton MessagePad, thanks!)

But what would the adapter connect to?

[dfm3]

Maybe they could get away with this on the base Macbook or Macbook Air, but it's just asinine to remove the 35mm jack from a Pro device. Unlike phones, these are widely used for content production and A/V presentation in venues like concerts, schools and churches. Do they really expect these users to hook up an adapter to use Bluetooth, USB, or thunderbolt for audio out to professional equipment? You might not notice any reduction in sound quality while using bluetooth or a dongle to listen to music in your car, but you WILL notice it when amplified on a speaker system in a venue that seats 1000 people.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Grishnakh]

Do they really expect these users to hook up an adapter to use Bluetooth, USB, or thunderbolt for audio out to professional equipment?

If they want to keep using Apple equipment, then yes.

Who do these users think they are anyway? Why do they think Apple gives two shits about their petty concerns? This move by Apple is smart: they can save money by eliminating parts, thus improving profit margins, and then they can make even more money by selling massively overpriced adapters (or Lightning licenses). How is this not a good move on their part?

Just watch, all these "Pro" users are going to bitch and complain about this, and then they're going to run out and spend a fortune on a new MacBook Pro and a horribly overpriced adapter.

Nothing wrong with separating fools from their money.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't disagree that it's a bad idea to get rid of the 3.5mm jack, but if you're hooking up to a system for a venue that seats 1000 people you're probably going to need a bunch of adapters and dongles anyway because it's a lot more likely your soundboard is going to be wired for TRS (1/4") or XLR than 3.5mm. A small, portable USB audio interface with balanced outs solves this problem neatly.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[hidden]

I work in that industry. I would estimate that 3/4 of all consoles have an 1/8" adaptor sitting there ready to go at all times. Walk up. Plug in phone/laptop/whatever, and go. Nobody has a USB interface sitting there waiting for you. Don't get me wrong. The USB interface is the better choice for serious applications, but when you just need some quick background music, or you need to get somebody up and running fast...

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Solandri]

It's not a problem for A/V presentations because HDMI and Displayport carry both video and audio. There is actually a good reason for getting rid of the analog audio ports on a professional laptop. Being analog, they pick up noise from the other laptop components. HDD/SSD accesses, USB transmissions, sometimes even memory accesses can show up in the audio stream as chirps and warbles. While the analog ports work for informal recording and playback, they're not recommended for serious audio work. Most people doing professional recording use a dedicated USB mic which does the A/D conversion in the mic, and transmits the (digital) audio data to the computer over USB.

The real problem with getting rid of the headphone port is the situation GP posted - hooking up the laptop to desktop speakers so you don't have to listen to the crappy laptop speakers. The adapters which extract the audio from HDMI and convert it to an analog signal which can be played over 3.5mm / RCA / Phono cost about $20-$40, because they need to have a D/A converter inside them. (Granted you save on the price of this D/A adapter in your laptop, but do you seriously believe Apple will pass that cost savings on to you?)

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[NixieBunny]

I was expecting this. Just ordered a Lenovo P70 laptop yesterday, since Apple seems to be headed down the path of removing any reason whatsoever for an engineer to use their products. I switched to a Nexus phone a few months ago.

I just wish the P70 had a COM port.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Darinbob]

It's a standard, following standards is a good idea. It's not like the MacBook Pro is too thin for the headphone jack, unlike the Macbook Air. Make it any thinner and the thing will bend under its own weight.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[BronsCon]

3.5mm (AKA 1/8") comes in TS, TRS, and TRRS variants, just like 1/4" (AKA 6mm); all three formats are also made in a 1/16" size (AKA 2.5mm).

TS is actually the more common 1/4" on a lot of consoles; two lines, one for the left channel and one for the right; TRS usually only exists on consoles as a headphone output. One reason for this is that, quite often, a stereo pair is actually split into two monaural channels to record, for example, two different instruments, two different vocal tracks, or one person's separate vocal and instrument track, none of which typically need to be recorded in stereo (save for a very few instruments, any stereo effect is typically added in mixing). We don't see a bunch of monaural inputs on mixers because there is also often the requirement for a stereo pair, but we do see those stereo inputs split out into two monaural jacks for the above reason.

I've seen a 1/4" TRRS in the wild, commonly used on broadcast headsets. Hell, I've even seen TRRRS connectors, for quadraphonic audio, in both larger sizes.

Every single high-end pair of headphones, as well as most low-end "studio-style" headphones and headsets, includes an adapter from 1/4" TRS to 1/8" TRS; whether the adapter is 1/4" > 1/8" or 1/8" > 1/4" will depend on whether the headphones ship with a 1/4" or 1/8" TRS plug, but the adapter will be there. It is the single most common audio adapter in the world. TS adapters of this type will be somewhat less common in home audio, but you are virtually guaranteed to find a box, bin, basket, or drawer-full of the things sitting on or near any mixing console. TRRS and TRRRS adapters that go from 1/4" to 1/8" are going to be less common, but the need for them is virtually nonexistent, so that's fine; 1/8" to 1/16" TS, TRS, and TRRS adapters are also fairly common, one or more of them typically being included with equipment that utilizes 1/16" jacks. I'm sure there's a 1/16" TRRRS out there somewhere as well, but I've never heard of such a beast.

Here's a breakdown for you:
TS - Tip/Sleeve - Carries one monaural audio signal. Common in 1/4", 1/8", and 1/16". Adapters available between all sizes, commonly found for 1/4" to/from 1/8" and 1/8" to/from 1/16".
TRS - Tip/Ring/Sleeve - Carries one stereo or two monaural audio signals. Common in 1/4", 1/8", and 1/16". Adapters available between all sizes, commonly found for 1/4" to/from 1/8" and 1/8" to/from 1/16".
TRRS - Tip/Ring/Ring/Sleeve - Carries one stereo and one monaural audio signal, or three monaural audio signals. Commonly used in headsets to provide stereo audio and a monaural microphone. Common in 1/8" and 1/16". Adapters available between all sizes, commonly found for 1/8" to/from 1/16".
TRRRS - Tip/Ring/Ring/Ring/Sleeve - Carries one quadraphonic audio signal, two stereo audio signals, one stereo and two monaural audio signals, or four monaural audio signals. Commonly used on quadraphonic headphones and stereo headsets providing a stereo microphone. Uncommon in all sizes, available in 1/4" and 1/8". Adapters available for 1/4" to/from 1/8".

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Who would ever use the shitty output from a 35mm jack powered by a laptop's audio output?

For digital audio there's already support for USB Audio in most decent equipment, and it supports far higher quality than optical.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[amicusNYCL]

Do they really expect these users to hook up an adapter to use Bluetooth, USB, or thunderbolt for audio out to professional equipment?

Do you really expect Apple to care about how you use their products? If you're not using it the right way they'll let you know, so that you can start using it the way they want you to. Yeah, you might have to buy all new audio equipment in the process, but you didn't start using Apple products because they were inexpensive.

but you WILL notice it when amplified on a speaker system in a venue that seats 1000 people.

So get new audio equipment and start using your Apple product the way that Apple wants you to use it, or else you're going to be replaced by the next fanboy that will. That's the Apple ecosystem at work. If you own an iPhone and Apple computer product and you're angry about things like this, you only have yourself to blame. It wasn't hard to see coming.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[amicusNYCL]

3.5mm (AKA 1/8") comes in TS, TRS, and TRRS variants, just like 1/4" (AKA 6mm); all three formats are also made in a 1/16" size (AKA 2.5mm).

2.5 mm = 1/16
3.5 mm = 1/8
6 mm = 1/4

Man, the metric system is so screwed up.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[tripleevenfall]

Apple owns Beats now. The dots are not especially hard to connect.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[BronsCon]

No, the industries which most commonly use these plugs have just simplified the means of referring to them The 2.5mm and 3.5mm variants are truly 2.5mm and 3.5mm, with 1/16" and 1/8" being the closest common imperial measurements to those metric sizes. The 1/4" variant is truly 1/4", which is 6.4mm, but we simplify it to 6mm because there isn't another 6.x mm size we need to differentiate.

So, if you're more comfortable with metric, you have 2.5mm, 3.5mm, and 6mm, while everyone else has 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4", and it's all been simplified to the point that both groups can understand each other when asking for a certain size in either system of measurement.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[dgatwood]

Huh? The optical output from the 1/8" headphone jack on a MacBook Pro is 192kHz/24-bit. I'm not aware of any audio formats in existence that are higher quality than that.... And digital data is digital data; the fact that it came from the Mac's built-in audio hardware just means that it is more robust against dropouts than a controller attached to USB....

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. usb and bluetooth add noticeable latency. not that critical for music listening, but for games or anything interactive, it's distracting.
2. 'optical'/spdif is lossless as is usb, though, with a few notable exceptions, those usb audio devices lack quality analog output. The design goal there is small size not quality audio.

bluetooth audio is a mess.. who wants to deal with this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

There's a codec that supports a lossless mode, aptX, but good luck figuring out from the pkg which bluetooth headset will mate with which bluetooth device aptx lossless mode if it's even supported. Unless your audio file is one of the supported standards (mp3/aac) and it's possible for the player to feed the raw data directly to the bluetooth device, the audio will be decompressed and recompressed a second time before it reaches your ears. This magnifies compression artifacts substantially, even with high bitrate files.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[mysidia]

sometimes even memory accesses can show up in the audio stream as chirps and warbles.

Ah, shoot... now it's a security issue. They would need to stop just throwing in a $0.50 commodity solution and start actually providing proper isolation for the audio lines; might as well drop the port and add another USB.

I think the primary use of the line-out and headphone jacks ARE for headphones and desktop speakers, by the way.

Removing support for it from a product for power users / professionals seems just downright malicious, even though the analog's clearly not for high-end Audiophile and content event presentation-quality playback applications.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Hadlock]

I think there are more people doing software development on Macbook Pros than audio work. Developers (I'd say 30% at my office) like to listen to music while working. And then the sales guys need headphones and microphones to do sales demos, sales meetings etc etc. The first time a sales guy says "I lost the sale because my headphones couldn't plugin so I could use the mic" is the last time Apple laptops get issued for salespeople in my company.
 
That said, you can buy a USB-C adapter for headphones, they're about a dollar and are universal. The new Macbook Pros will likely have USB-C.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[SeaFox]

Maybe they could get away with this on the base Macbook or Macbook Air, but it's just asinine to remove the 35mm jack from a Pro device.

I would say the same thing about the wired Ethernet port -- but people seemed to let that one slide.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a bad idea. I use every usb port and headphone jack every day.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[aitikin]

Don't get me wrong. The USB interface is the better choice for serious applications, but when you just need some quick background music, or you need to get somebody up and running fast...

Not to mention there's always that concern that the laptop might not have the proper OS/driver compatibility with the USB interface.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Grishnakh]

That said, you can buy a USB-C adapter for headphones, they're about a dollar and are universal. The new Macbook Pros will likely have USB-C.

Well hopefully those new MBPs will include a software restriction preventing audio from being routed to an unapproved USBc adapter like that, and only allow it to be routed to Apple-approved wireless or wired headphones.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Chaset]

I let it slide... Just once, while I prepare my Linux transition (I'll do it slowly over the next few years). It's annoying enough that they ditched the Ethernet port. If I need to have yet another dongle to have basic functionality, it's just not worth it any more. I use the 3.5mm jack daily with earphones I already own and work perfectly fine. I'll miss OS X and the goodies it comes with, but the hardware is losing functionality with every generation, which is ridiculous. They might get my money again if they put the Ethernet port back in and leave the audio jack alone. Or maybe, if they are replaced with something clearly superior in every way. (I'm not aware of any such tech, though.)

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[cayenne8]

I would say the same thing about the wired Ethernet port -- but people seemed to let that one slide.

WOW...when the fuck did they do that?!?!?

How the hell am I supposed to hook this computer to my WIRED home network??

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

So I guess that'd be fine if we get another USB port instead of the headphone jack...

THIS IS ABOUT VANISHING FUNCTIONALITY

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[dromgodis]

WOW...when the fuck did they do that?!?!?

They ditched it a couple of years ago.

In the race to make the MBP look lean, clean and smooth, they have forced you to bring a handful of dongles if you want to connect anywhere. You don't look so hip any longer with those dongles protrouding everywhere, and you certainly don't look hip when you have forgotten to bring one for your public presentation.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

You go to Amazon and buy a $5 USB-to-Ethernet adapter, or go to Apple and pay 29.99 for the same thing.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[armanox]

We will see. I know a lot of Apple users that are waiting for an actual Pro version of the MacBook Pro to exist again and have refrained from purchasing the retina display models due to the drop in quality. Why pay more to have less?

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

HEADPHONE LIVES MATTER.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[thoughtlover]

Normally, I'd concur with that assessment of Apple's pro-user base, but not anymore.

Apple has been slowly killing off their pro and power user-base for just a little over a decade --the exact time that the iPhone came out.

Their desktop OS is a joke, anymore. It doesn't even tell me how fast files are transferring from disk-to-disk in the Finder.

Apple stole the Premiere coding team from Adobe back in 90s to make FCP. Those same employees left Apple after the abysmal FCP X release only to revive the Adobe Premiere codebase.

And why did Apple discontinue Shake?? Seriously, this company cares NOT for pro/power users, anymore.

The decision to remove the 35mm jack isn't like the one when they removed the floppy drive...

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like they removed the ethernet port from a Pro device?

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you go to Apple and buy the thunderbolt to gigabit ethernet adapter. Then you leave it attached to the RJ-45, and just plug the adapter into the laptop when it's not on your lap. What, the connect SHAPE bothers you?

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

And what about folks who use headphones that are more expensive to replace than the macbook pro? I don't want to stick a dongle into a thunderbolt jack just to get my audio gear to work. That's asinine.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[karmatic]

There is a proper solution - the headphone jacks on the MacBook Pro also do optical audio out. There's your isolation and noise resistance.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[mysidia]

There is a proper solution - the headphone jacks on the MacBook Pro also do optical audio out.

OK, but if Apple doesn't remove the analog electrically-conducted audio capability, someone can still covertly plug in an analyzer to my laptop when i'm away and listen to those "Chirps and warbles" created by memory access, in effort to try and steal my encryption keys by listening to the noise created by memory accesses.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Waccoon]

That's the point. If you're really a "pro", you won't have any trouble coughing up the extra dough for adapters and high-end wireless equipment. You don't want to be part of the race to the bottom, do you?

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that's absolutely impossible. And I use an analog output on an HP for audio production and I've never interference or noise. It's not like a car with a ground loop.

What incredible courage...

[stastuffis]

It was one thing to push wireless for mobile phones. I don't like it, but at the very least, you're usually not stationary, and I've had cords get tangled or yanked on the go.

But seeing as laptops are often productivity workstations where you may spend hours at a time working, I want and need a 3.5mm jack. My good, wired headphones are for the long hauls. No charging needed (and no batteries to expire) and are reliable. I use Bluetooth when I'm on the go or exercising and a cord may actually get in my way. I'm not going to go on a 7-hour jog either, so I'm not worried about charging it.

No, I don't want any peripherals, either. I WILL lose peripherals, and I hate that the knee-jerk reaction to these type of complaints is to purchase a peripheral. I understand how to solve that simple problem, okay? My issue is that it's a problem I didn't ask for!

MacBooks are the only hardware I'm interested in purchasing from Apple, but if this happens, no way.

Re:What incredible courage...

[Megane]

I want and need a 3.5mm jack.

Here you go. Eight bucks and they often put it on sale for five.

Consumers Explore the Idea Of Killing Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

See title.

FOA.

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering I just used the headphone jack on mine yesterday at the library -- fuck off, Apple.

The real reason

[Catharsis Unhinged]

As everyone knows, the real reason is courage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

wireless networking is not perfectly fine

[Joe_Dragon]

wireless networking is not perfectly fine for.

* High security areas
* Areas where walls block wifi
* Areas With lot's of Congestion
* Areas with overloaded AP's

Re:wireless networking is not perfectly fine

[Dusty101]

Also, radio-quiet work zones.

Re:Found the CRIMINAL!

[Anonymous Coward]

So, using your analogy, Only DISHONEST PEOPLE want to vote for DISHONEST Clinton?

Hell I'd vote for Clinton over Trump because the man's a total fool making her the less bad choice but idiots like you make one want to reconsider.

Same survey, different machine

[TheBogBrushZone]

I had the same question asked on a survey regarding my Mac Mini. It had a bunch of questions about which monitor ports I use as well.

Yes, Apple Has Lock on Music

[HannethCom]

I listen to many independent musicians. The Internet has opened up where you do not have to join the mafia... I mean RIAA, to release your music. To reach the most people, you still need to be where a large number of other artists are. Most put their music on iTunes. A large portion of my independent songs can only be found on iTunes, even though most ai found out about on YouTube. The nice thing I'd that if you download your iTunes songs, just about any device will play them.

Bluetooth works for me

[j_to_the_m]

I've been using a single bluetooth headset on numerous devices for a while now and it works great for me. I've got it set *not* to automatically pair with a device. When I want to connect to a device, I connect to it from the bluetooth menu on the device when I want to use it. It takes about the same time as untangling and connecting a cable. If the battery starts to die, I connect a USB charging cable. Personally, I couldn't stand being tethered to a device with wires connected to my head. The cables constantly got tangled and prevented my own mobility. I tried longer cables and I destroyed them by rolling over them with my chair. Also, I had to replace my headphones at a rate of at least 1/year. The problem every time was cable-related. I tried expensive headphones and cheap headphones. Same result- dead within a year (and, yes, I take care of my stuff). With the exception of audiophiles and heavy users, I think this whole headphone jack thing is a non-issue. Keeping the device charged is the biggest issue but "charging my stuff" is just part of my daily routine now (I make sure I charge my phone, watch, headphones, laptop and tablet daily). I haven't had many battery issues for a while now. If you use your device a lot you have a legitimate gripe, but otherwise bluetooth does work and it does have advantages.

Re:This wouldn't be a big deal in a different worl

[Anonymous Coward]

"Apple has been systematically turning their computers into throwaway appliances by removing expansion capability, then charging an arm and a leg for incredibly cheap RAM and storage capacity."

That's really the long and short of it.

I have an old iMac G5 with Tiger. I liked OSX but I rarely used it. While it wasn't exactly fighting my Windows ecosystem, everything was just different enough to make me jump through hoops constantly. I cannot imagine what it would be like to have an Apple device now with all of the ports and protocols going away too. Seems like you're practically stuck on whatever device you have and whatever subscriptions it supports and when something go wrong you just throw it all away and start over.

Deal killer for me, casual user

[Anonymous Coward]

Our family uses Linux at home, but our kids just reached college age and I got them Mac laptops so they can deal with their colleges' anti-standards, anti-Linux biases. They use headphone jacks CONSTANTLY - for privacy e.g FaceTime or Skype conversations, or to avoid bothering roommates if they're listening to music or Netflixing.

They love their Mac laptops and are possibly on the road to being long-term future Apple customers.

I liked their Mac laptops so much I was going to get my wife one for Christmas and one for myself next year, after the new Pro comes out. I also have a need to sometimes use non-Linux software such as tax software.

But not if Apple pulls this kind of user unfriendly shit. I'll be discouraged and buy Linux laptops and just return to doing my taxes by hand. And I know my kids will be discouraged too.

Dear Apple, Microsoft is sucking ass with Windows 10. Why don't you embrace the ripe opportunity to grab some marketshare from them instead of crappifying your new products?

Make things whole

[Anonymous Coward]

They should remove all the plugs at once. Charge via induction and all communication can be done be WiFi of Bluetooth (best when using the same frequencies).

There's no fucking paradigm shift

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't fucking buy one. Simple as that.

Keyboards are next in line to be removed.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are reliable sources suggesting that integrated keyboards are next in line. Improvements in Siri mean voice advocates commands, or bluetooth keyboard will be offered.

After all, who uses their keyboard anymore?

Apple's smart != getting me to buy

[fyngyrz]

There's nothing stupid about [the trashcan mac pro]; it's a very smart move

Is it, now?

Well, that "smart move" has caused this not-so-smart customer to become a non-customer and go to buying used mac pro's off of EBay. Several of them. I'd have been perfectly happy to buy more from Apple, 15-20k worth, but I am not perfectly happy to scatter hard drives and whatnot insecurely and inconveniently all over my desk, because that turns my desk into crapland, and I won't tolerate that, because, you know, I'm "not smart."

They made some smart moves erecting a walled, highly entropic and censorious garden for apps; not putting a radio into the iPhone; not providing for wireless charging; and yanking out the analog audio jack. So smart, that I got rid of my iPhone, and my SO is ditching hers next time around, as she's become a bit jealous of my not-so-smart phone that has all these foolish features: sideloading, open development, radio, wireless charging, analog jack, memory expansion cards... yeah, we're so not-smart.

They can make smart moves all they want. But as long as those smart moves consist of failing to deliver what we want in a product, they can suck it.

Re:Apple's smart != getting me to buy

[Grishnakh]

Is it, now?

What's wrong with that picture? It looks ridiculous to me, but I'm not an Apple customer. Obviously, Apple customers love it; they happily buy this stuff, and then post pictures of it. If they weren't in favor of that mess of cables and gadgets, they wouldn't have bought it.

Well, that "smart move" has caused this not-so-smart customer to become a non-customer and go to buying used mac pro's off of EBay. Several of them. I'd have been perfectly happy to buy more from Apple, 15-20k worth

So you happily pump up the resale price of Apple equipment, and help Apple buyers justify their expenditures on brand-new equipment. Buying used doesn't take away from a company's profit margin in many cases, it helps them keep prices high, though it's obviously rather indirect and hard to quantify.

but I am not perfectly happy to scatter hard drives and whatnot insecurely and inconveniently all over my desk, because that turns my desk into crapland, and I won't tolerate that, because, you know, I'm "not smart."

But apparently you're happy to scatter hard drives around as long as you can get the Mac Pro at a used price off Ebay... (unless I'm missing something here)

And you and like-minded people refusing to buy new Apple Mac Pros has had exactly what effect on their profitability? According to their financials, likely nothing; they're doing great financially.

So smart, that I got rid of my iPhone, and my SO is ditching hers next time around, as she's become a bit jealous of my not-so-smart phone that has all these foolish features: sideloading, open development, radio, wireless charging, analog jack, memory expansion cards... yeah, we're so not-smart.

This discussion isn't about the customers being smart, it's about Apple being smart. Did you miss that? According to all available information, they *are* acting in a smart manner. If that causes them to lose a small number of customers, that's OK if the revenue gain from existing and new customers more than makes up for it. This is basic business.

If you like things like analog jacks and memory expansion slots, and don't like being told by your vendor that you don't need these things, then maybe you should look at another vendor. But Apple seems to have no trouble selling every iPhone it can make even when deleting those features, so it seems most of its customers either don't care about them, or stop caring about them after being told by Apple that they don't need them.

Quit complianing.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have enough money for an I-thing, you have enough for the add-ons. Just keep quiet and shell out already.

Does't bother me and...

[tehlinux]

neither does the new iPhone. Wasn't going to buy them anyway, but even if I were, I'd know ahead of time if they had headphone jacks or not. Now I wouldn't put it past Apple to disable the headphone jacks in existing iPhones...

Next up: How to drill a hole in your MacBook

[tomxor]

How foolish we've all been... it's nothing to do with making money on wireless headphones at all, Apple have obviously just bought up a load of power drill companies and are going to get iFixit to post how to's on drilling headphone ports. Next it will be Apple workshops on how to drill a hole in over-expensive anodised aluminium body without making a giant horrid protruding mess.

There is no other explanation, why else would people buy a notebook that's incompatible with analogue speakers.

Never used them.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never plugged anything into my headphone jack... Don't even know if it works! I don't mind it being removed as long as I can have another USB!

Heh, I knew it.

[XSportSeeker]

I was just commenting on this few days ago, perhaps not here on Slashdot.

But I explicitly said it wouldn't impress me if Apple started removing headphone jacks on every one of their products, even those that made even less sense, just as further proof that this is a move with profit in mind, locking Apple costumers further into the walled garden.
And there it is. Courage... to completely lock the system, make costumers spend more money into either your stuff or stuff that has to be licenced by them, and kill the last piece of universal standard from your products, also making it harder for people to escape the platform.

Less terrible in notebooks

[Guspaz]

There are two mitigating factors: USB-C allows analog audio output if the host devices supports it (as in, a passive adapter can be used without an additional DAC), and USB-C is a general standard and not proprietary.

As such, if I was given the choice between a Macbook with one USB-C port and one headphone jack, or a Macbook with two USB-C ports... I would take the one with two USB-C ports. It'd be annoying to lose the headphone jack, but overall it'd be a net gain in utility, since it'd enable things like charge-and-display-at-the-same-time without hubs.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

What about adding a security slot?

[shanen]

Actually, my main beef with my MacBook Pro is the lack of a security slot on my model. I knew that the previous model had a slot for the Kensington lock, but if I had noticed that it was missing from the new model, then perhaps I wouldn't have bought it. Even though I live in a fairly secure area and there is relatively little theft here, the point of a highly portable computer is to take it to many places, and some of them might be less secure. It was often convenient to lock the computer in place before going to the bathroom, but now the Mac has to go with me.

The excuse Apple gave was that the new model was too thin to put the slot on the side. Okay, then think differently and put the slot on the top or the bottom. (They might prefer to put it on the bottom for esthetic reasons? Even though it would require propping the locked computer up, perhaps on books...)

Anyway, as regards this topic, I'm kind of indifferent. As long as the built in speakers don't die, they usually suffice for my purposes. As regards design changes, it strikes me as trivial and the biggest problem remains the potential for the MacBook to grow legs.

As often happens with topics Apple, I suspect the main volume is religious warfare, but I'll look it over for funny or insightful comments... My initial dry searches were for topics related to physical security.

Too Courageous

[javawocky]

I use my headphones all day while coding, I don't want to have to recharge them every hour or so.

One more reason to have a Thinkpad

[sethstorm]

They won't remove the jack on their professional models. If anything, the T*/P50/P70 will continue to keep their ports.

That, and you can use OSX if you want.

Boosting older MBP sales?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mmmm...

How would this affect my main application?

[shanen]

My main use for my MacBook Pro is actually dictation, but that topic is not mentioned anywhere in the large number of visible comments. My initial reaction is that it isn't directly relevant, but my second reaction is that maybe I should be using the headphone jack to get better dictation results. Perhaps some of the problems are related to limitations in the echo cancellation, and using headphones might be worth it.

Having said that, I'd be delighted to see any tips or URLs on the topic of better dictation, though I am acknowledging it seems to be mostly off topic right now. My ignorance is showing as usual, or it might be my Olympian skills at jumping to the wrong conclusions. I would certainly be more likely to buy a new MacBook Pro if I thought they had improved the dictation results, though the inconvenience of needing to wear headphones (even if they are USB or wireless) for best results would certainly count against the machine...

Now about those funny comments. Not so much. And the insightful ones? Rather less. Failure of moderation or dearth of interesting posters? I wish I cared more, but even better if I could help support features that would make things better.

I like my headphone jack, thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's where I plug in speakers that are far superior to anything that Apple can build into its products.

Behead the idiots...

[Anonymous Coward]

How about beheading the goddamn idiots that're behind this "remove-the-headphone-jack-because-we-can" bullshit? It's never gonna stop. Next, they'll remove all physical ports from the Macbook Pro, leaving some half-assed proprietary Bluetooth implementation as the only means of connecting peripherals. Tim Cook is a goddamn faggot, & damn proud of it. Fuck Apple & the goddamn butt-monkey SJW-lovin' fag brigade that's taken them over.

Come buy an HP Zbook

[Anonymous Coward]

We have all the ports: USB superspeed, USB-C, HDMI, SD, GbE, power, and yes audio (and high-quality sound onboard).

And even once you deck it the hell out it'll probably still cost less than a MacBook Pro...

Please focus group test these excuses

[Trashcan Romeo]

* It's taking up space needed for a larger battery. * It will make the device more water resistant. * Courage!

Patently absurd

[Chalnoth]

I can understand removal of the headphone jack from a phone (to some extent): modern phone design is extraordinarily tight and removing every little piece can help the overall design. But on a laptop? There's no design reason to do this. The cost of the jack is tiny. The utility isn't huge for all users, but it's definitely useful for a large number of them.

Why would they even need to field a survey for this? If Bluetooth or other wireless headphones become ubiquitous, maybe. But not until then.

Musicians and Sound Engineers still use it!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm, good thing no musicians, uses, it (Only Deadmau5, Avicii, Skrillex, Hardwell, Guetta, Zedd, Armin, Diplo, Tiesto, Calvin Harris, and pretty much every other major musician and composer).

Why, it's Apple Inc!

[Anonymous Coward]

America's answer to the question NOBODY ASKED!

If he only had a brain

[phayes]

Yeah, sure because it's somehow impossible for you to use your brain and figure out that even if they eliminate the built-in port on future MBPs that they wouldn't supply an inexpensive USB-C to Analog Jack dongle with it like they do with the iPhone 7. Nor can you rub two neurons together and figure that it is trivial to recover your precious analog hole from whatever sound system you choose to use.

There is no functional difference between using an analog jack or a dongle or an external DAC to recover the sound of DRMed video

No for some reason your brains shut down as soon as Apple is the subject and you come up with the dumbest straw men to PROOVE that Apple is evul and will capture your soul.

Re:If he only had a brain

[AmiMoJo]

Yay, another dongle. I can add it to my collection:

- USB C splitter for charging and USB at the same time
- USB hub because 1 port isn't enough
- USB to headphone dongle
- lightning to headphone dongle
- Lightning splitter so I can listen and charge

Re:If he only had a brain

[phayes]

Aww, snookums doesn't like dongles and wishes that there were enough people who cared enough to buy non-dongle PCs/Macs so that their flagship portables didn't use them? Would snookums like a cookie and a glass of warm milk to soothe his bobo?

Snookums also wants to change his argument because I shot down his analog hole dimwit idea.

The MacBook is for a different market that is well served with a single USB-C. With a decent Wifi, my son in college never needed more than the one port and is more than content with a fast enough, light, fanless Mac. He only uses a dongle when he hooks up his mac to a TV to share netflix.

The coming refresh of the rMBP will have 4 USB-C ports if the leaks are reliable. Looks like enough to me and with people providing micro-USB to Dock/lightning adapters (like this ) for less than $5, I'll just need a few of those that I'll leave connected to the USB-C cables next to the lightning splitter in my bag to be able to connect whatever I need.

Ohh the hardship, ohh the horror... Does snookums want another cookie?

Signal Quality

[Anonymous Coward]

It used to be

Digital audio -> DAC -> jack -> cable -> phones

Now it's

Digital audio -> encoder -> bluetooth -> decoder -> DAC -> phones

Can bluetooth at least use a lossless codec?

JAFAP IWB

[Anonymous Coward]

Just another fucking Apple product I won't buy. Time to build a Hackintosh or better yet, go back to GNU/Linux.

RDF is extra strong w/ you.

[sethstorm]

The Reality Distortion Field is very strong with you. Never mind that you ignore the harmful influence on other vendors, something that nullifies choice by blindly following suit.

Oh, and Apple does have a nasty habit of being wrong and putting in features that were wanted anyway.

Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

So courageous.

I did that on my MBP and it sucks.

[Gallomimia]

No really. I killed my headphone jack like 3 years ago. Static discharge while hooked up to a stereo. Jack now sounds like total garbage, can't use it at all.

I get by tho. I Had to run out and purchase some bluetooth headphones, and I still use the internal speakers, or hook it up via HDMI.

So basically what I'm saying is it will have the exact effect Apple Corporate wants. Using their near monopoly on the market for spiffy mac portables which have suddenly become trendy, not like the previous 25 years of my fanboi-dom, to force purchases and extract more profits from already stretched thin consumers at the cost of functionality is an unforgivable sin. They've been doing it in their software, and now they do it in their hardware. I'm done with you Apple. I'm putting linux on this mac, I already use linux on my desktop, and I'm never buying another of your products. I hope all readers do the same.

I have a feeling...

[Lord Flipper]

...that this won't pretty Apple's implementation of Bluetooth (especially in terms of simple connectivity, and dependability) is a world of hurt... Whether it's to my phone, or, more often, my in-ear monitors... their bluetooth radio tech simply blows. I cannot even begin to imagine how many times I've suffered dropped signals and static. Atrocious...

Re:I have a feeling...

[Lord Flipper]

...that this won't pretty Apple's implementation of Bluetooth (especially in terms of simple connectivity, and dependability) is a world of hurt... Whether it's to my phone, or, more often, my in-ear monitors... their bluetooth radio tech simply blows. I cannot even begin to imagine how many times I've suffered dropped signals and static. Atrocious...

fucking christ, can we get a 5-minute "window" for self-edits???? my post was: I have a feeling... [break] this won't [insert: end] pretty [Insert: period] Apple... blah blah blah...

p.s. and yes, I used "preview" this time...

apple in India

[Anonymous Coward]

New Apple iPhone 7 is beautiful

Why?

[Sir Holo]

Apple, why kill your "in" on the professional audio market?

No self-respecting audio engineer, recording artist, session musician, or listener is going to tolerate the series of A/D/A/D/A conversions required to get a dongle to work with an all-digital audio-monitoring system. No one.

And anyone who is a Pro is not going to sacrifice a lightning port for simple audio output.

What about a family of 6?

[Toshito]

What if, like our family, you have 6 laptops and 6 phones, with 3 tablets...

If everyone in this family has a pair of bluetooth headphones, how in hell are will we be able to pair the correct headphones to the correct device? They will all try to pair themselves all the time?

We already have problems with one bluetooth soundbar in the kitchen, sometimes I want to play music on it but it's already paired with another phone/laptop/tablet somewhere in the house, and I have to hunt it down and turn it off before I can pair it to my device.

Frankly those engineers that push bluetooth everywhere must live alone, because it's a nightmare in a family.