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Can Consumers Fight Package Thieves With Technology? (geekwire.com)
Every year more than 10 million packages are stolen off doorsteps, according to a study by August Home Inc. -- a company which sells a "smart" door lock that's controlled by your cellphone so you can remotely let a delivery person into your house. But that's just one of the weird ways consumers are using technology to try to fight package thieves. An anonymous reader reports:
Some online shopping sites will now also text you when one of their packages gets left on your doorstep, according to GeekWire, which reports that for a thousand bucks you can also just buy a lockable iBin parcel-delivery box. But there's also a startup selling an odd new product called Package Guard, "a Frisbee sized, wi-fi-enabled device that alerts a user when a package has been delivered and set on top of it. Package Guard sets off a loud alarm if anyone unauthorized tries to remove the package."
GeekWire details the frustration of one Seattle police detective. "Bach knows the crimes are happening, he knows it all spikes during the holiday season and he knows that the few thieves who are caught are likely to see little if any jail time." (Though Bach admits "We do a wide variety of undercover stings," including a recent operation involving mobile surveillance with a "major delivery company.") One Seattle man even attempted to stop thieves by installing a Ring smart doorbell to film activity on his doorstep, only to discover that this only enabled him to watch helplessly as a thief opened his package, and then successfully stole all of its contents.
Though he yelled at the video "Bring my package back now!" that thief was never caught.
GeekWire details the frustration of one Seattle police detective. "Bach knows the crimes are happening, he knows it all spikes during the holiday season and he knows that the few thieves who are caught are likely to see little if any jail time." (Though Bach admits "We do a wide variety of undercover stings," including a recent operation involving mobile surveillance with a "major delivery company.") One Seattle man even attempted to stop thieves by installing a Ring smart doorbell to film activity on his doorstep, only to discover that this only enabled him to watch helplessly as a thief opened his package, and then successfully stole all of its contents.
Though he yelled at the video "Bring my package back now!" that thief was never caught.
Guns
to get a PO box, and have all packages shipped to you there. Its 100% secure, nobody but you can get your package. And USPS shipping is usually less expensive than other options.
The only problems are:
- many companies have exclusive contracts with shipping carriers that cannot deliver to PO boxes, and
- many companies refuse to ship to PO boxes even if they do offer USPS shipping, possibly out of obsolete paranoia.
Trick I picked up in the Marines ambush the thief with whatever means are available to you. Down here in the swamp country that could be anything from alligator to M4 carbine. They work well. Happy holidays to all.
I'm a fan of the USPS.
They make sure the package gets in your hands. If you're not home, they leave a ticket in your mailbox to pickup the package at the office, which is far less inconvenient then having a package stolen.
And if it's small enough to fit in a mailbox, sure, someone might take it. But it's a federal offense. And it's far less likely to happen when potential thieves can't see what's inside, as opposed to an inviting box sitting on one's doorstep.
Seriously, why did this even become a thing? Twenty years ago, I remember when a package that came by UPS or Fedex always had to be signed for and was never left on a doorstep.
So I see the US has the same problem as other places, you can have all the fanciest video surveillance installed around your house. The police still doesn't give a shit. Unless you are really rich.
In my country packages are only given to you if you show ID and sign a reception document.
Technology involved:
- paper
- pen
- human interaction
Way to defeat said technology:
- ID theft followed by monitoring carefully when the postman comes to the house / or postman counterfeiting reception document himself (easy enough to prove the signature is not legit unless he is good at faking it). [too much energy expenditure for petty thieves]
Sniper rifle.
to get a PO box, and have all packages shipped to you there. Its 100% secure, nobody but you can get your package. And USPS shipping is usually less expensive than other options.
The only problems are:
- many companies have exclusive contracts with shipping carriers that cannot deliver to PO boxes, and - many companies refuse to ship to PO boxes even if they do offer USPS shipping, possibly out of obsolete paranoia.
This. It is extremely uncommon for a delivery service to leave parcels on doorsteps in England and Australia because someone might pass it and thing "I'll have that".
In Australia if you cant have someone present for the delivery, you'll have to pick it up from a Distribution Centre or Post Office. In the UK they might leave it with a neighbour.
Smart door locks are not the solution as they just expose your home to burglary. In fact like the parent poster pointed out, a solution already exists. This kind of thing just screams "solution looking for a problem".
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Easy: don't let distance retailers leave parcels on your doorstep!
Here in the UK, if a parcel is on your doorstep and gets stolen, it's still the retailers responsibility. Also, many large employers will let you receive parcels at your place of work, so they're received by a human into a secure building. Your neighbours can do the same thing for you if you have some you talk to (and are home when you're not). Larger apartment blocks have a conceirge. Most places I've ever worked at least have let me work at home for a day to receive deliveries. Amazon have 'Amazon Lockers' (as do a few others), and some other retailers have small shop fronts at stations and whatnot where you can 'click and collect'. I'm not sure if it died off due to disuse, but there used to be a chain called 'doddle' (funded by our rail companies of all things) that did collection and delivery services. Then my least favourite, but occasionally used option: saturday delivery. If all else fails, most couriers here will take the parcel back to their base (which is invariably a bit of a distance away) so you can pick it up from there.
Honestly, this isn't that hard.
Betteridge's law of headlines applies: the answer is, quite simply, "No".
Yeah. Shit happens. Think for yourselves once whether the 1:10000 chance of having a package snagged is worth the investment (yes, I've skimmed TFA, and all those numbers seem pulled out of someone's ass, mixing fears ("creates a real worry that packages left on the doorstep will be stolen (53%)") with meaningless statistics ("
stolen during the day when homeowners are out (74%)"). No wonder, it's just an ad (in ads and in politics, post-factual seems to be OK).
I'd say most of the time it ain't. Unless you're getting significantly more than 200 pkgs/year. For me, it definitely ain't.
Kinda the theft insurance my bike dealers tried to sell me each and every time I bought one (my last dealer was an exception, that's why I stayed a loyal customer of hers). Once I noticed that (a) they pay the value of the new bike *minus* devaluation (i.e. not nearly enough to pay a new one) and (b) all the added hassle to recover even that, I just found out it's not worth it.
But hey, whatever creates trade.
Make friends with your neighbors, do each other favors like accepting packages when we and they are out. Build community spirit.
Maybe that guy should have bought the Ring 2.0 that shoots lasers at the thieves.
So, you are proposing that I don't ship my home deliveries to my home? How about just not ordering anything then and buying is stores.
- Various "locker" countries. Lockers at many locations, often post offices, petrol stations, 24-hour shops. After selecting a bank of lockers which is convenient (e.g. on your way home to/from work), the delivery driver gets the location and a code for sealing the locker ; the recipient gets a code for opening the locker ; the shop keeper/ station manager etc has nothing to do unless there's a dispute, but they get a rental fee. PROBLEM : multiple companies. NEAREST to me : 2 locations in my city of < 10000 people.
- At least one "warehouse chain" (no store as such, just a warehouse ; you select from the catalogue or online, pay, and the goods are brought to you at front-of-warehouse) leverage their existing delivery network for people to collect goods from their chosen store. PROBLEM : limited number of stores. NEAREST : six miles from me, but I'm often there anyway. Another one 10 miles away in a different direction..
- Locker by front door : bolt a weatherproof locker by your front door. Close it with a programmable combination lock. Set code on lock, send code to delivery company, lock locker, put paper seal on locker. When you get home, unlock locker, inspect goods. Reverse works for collecting returns. Change lock code for next delivery. PROBLEM : might be too small, might be ugly, these are your problems. NEAREST : I've made these temporarily - metal locker secured by chain through letter box.
But to be honest, the "card through the door and collect item from post office" generally works fine for me.
This is not a problem that really need sophisticated technology. Just a little of that rarest of commodities - common sense.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
There's some parcel boxes, just large letter boxes, that solve the problem nicely.
Example 1
Example 2
There's probably some others. Some are proprietary for certain delivery company, e.g. DHL has boxes that only DHL can deliver to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQmlUAIbcXA
Seriously the technology to stop theft has existed for 100's of years... it's called a lock.
Get a box, put a lock on it, make sure that the delivery companies have a key, or a code... problem solved.
The same thing can stop mail thefts, should that box that now has a lock on it be a Mail box.
Technology has solved this problem. We just failed to implement the solution in the suburbs... (my apartments all had locked mailboxes, most of them either accepted packages at the office, or had a package lockbox in the mailboxs, the postman would drop off a key or code that would let you into the bigger box should you have a package in there...)
Your package is hidden in your dustbin, unfortunately today is bin day, and your item has been collectd and crushed.
Typically if I'm ordering something online, I will try to mandate that it ship via UPS or FedEx so I can obtain the tracking number. ( If necessary, I'll use the more expensive Next and 2nd Day Air options to ensure one of those two carriers are utilized ) Once I know what day the package is going to arrive, I will either telecommute or flat take the day off to ensure I take possession of the package the moment it arrives.
If the package is trivial ( read that not expensive ) then I may not bother with it.
However, much of the gear I purchase online is quite $$$ and will require a signature upon arrival anyway, so someone has to be there regardless. It never fails, if you don't stay home to catch it, they'll show up before you get off work. If you DO stay home to catch it, they don't show up until well after you would have got off work :|
For those situations, there isn't any technology that will help.
Normally you should sign for package deposit. Which means you have it in your hands.
Why not a "one way" door? Or a deposit box.
Similar to mailboxes/deposit boxes in banks.
unless they have a delivery note that I signed for receipt of the goods, as far a I am concerned it is not my problem.
You think it is a good idea to leave something on my doorstep? fine, but it is you risk, not mine.
In the UK they might leave it with a neighbour.
The Amazon drivers here (USA) frequently leave my packages with my neighbors. It would be nice if they tried my house first, though.
It's fair though, as they also frequently leave the neighbors packages at my house.
I'm a fan of the USPS.
Evidently you haven't had to deal with them as much as I have. USPS is clumsy and inefficient. Their workers don't work quickly and shipping anything through them is a pain in the ass. Shipping packages through USPS is generally more expensive for equivalent service to UPS or FedEx. USPS "tracking service" is generally utterly useless. It tells you that it's been shipped and that it's been delivered and nothing in between most of the time. USPS does a fine job with letters but they are the only ones allowed to handle those so it's not like there is any alternative unless you want to hire an expensive private courier.
They make sure the package gets in your hands.
Only if you pay them extra to do so, no different from UPS or FedEx. Ship something without requiring the recipient to sign for delivery and they will not take special measures to get it to you and only you.
If you're not home, they leave a ticket in your mailbox to pickup the package at the office, which is far less inconvenient then having a package stolen.
UPS and FedEx do the same thing provided you pay them to do so. Just like USPS. And speaking solely for myself, I find having to make a special trip to the post office to be a colossally bad use of my time. It's inconvenient and the postal workers at the counter take FOREVER to do anything. It's typically a half hour trip every time I go and sometimes worse. Furthermore you can have UPS or FedEx hold packages at their depot in exactly the same way if doing so makes sense.
And if it's small enough to fit in a mailbox, sure, someone might take it. But it's a federal offense.
"Might"? Theft from mailboxes happens all the time. It's illegal to steal a package even if it isn't in a mailbox so I'm not sure why you think thieves give a shit just because the post office is involved. I've had packages I've shipped stolen right off the back of the truck long before they even got to their destination both via UPS and via USPS.
Twenty years ago, I remember when a package that came by UPS or Fedex always had to be signed for and was never left on a doorstep.
Bullshit. I was shipping packages by the thousands (literally) twenty years ago and it was no different then than it is now. You can pay UPS and FedEx extra to require a signature to deliver the package or you can just tell them to drop it off and save the extra cash. Same with insuring the package. You pay them if you want the extra handling. Some areas they will not deliver to without a signature but that is not widely true and hasn't ever been true for all packages as far as I know.
A US mail box with its trapdoor drop.
A simple system that is good enough.
Won't accept large packages - but this is a limitation of any locker type system.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
... "Slashvertisement"
Rather than wait for your packages to be delivered then stolen, start early. Say around October. Put your own package on the front step when you leave for the day.
Inside you can fill it with dog shit or dirty diapers.
The first time a thief takes it they'll probably think better of stopping by a second time.
Which leads to the next step. Since that thief probably won't try again you can either rinse and repeat for the next thief or go to the next level and rig a fake package to shoot out pepper spray when opened.
If you wanted to be really clever, have a package which uses compressed air to shoot out dog shit when opened. Or any comparable liquid.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
In Denmark and Germany they have a foolproof system, the mailman or delivery guy doesn't actuallly have the package in his truck, all he has is a pad of notices all saying "You weren't at home, go get your package at the post office tomorrow!"
That gets REALLY awkward when you open the front door while the mailman is coming up towards it.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
I knew it was on its way from the Amazon tracking, but the lovely deliver person at S**R just dropped it where it was convenient and headed on his (or her) way. I got a call from the shopkeeper who found my phone number on the label stuck to the manufacturer's carton, that said exactly what it was. Luckily, he was honest and let me know or he could have had a very nice christmas present.
Even now, 2 weeks later, Amazon still shows the package as undelivered.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
UPS and USPS will deliver there (not sure for fedex) and it can be used as a business address.
Silence is a state of mime.
United States are not the entire world (like the discussion leads me to...), you know...
to get a PO box, and have all packages shipped to you there.
UPS will not deliver to PO boxes and in fact they cannot by law. Neither can FedEx, DHL, etc. Only the United States Postal Service can deliver to PO boxes. Since most of my deliveries do not come via USPS a PO box is rather useless to me. You can get a similar sort of service through places like UPS stores and they will accept packages from other couriers. Not the post office though.
And USPS shipping is usually less expensive than other options.
Not for equivalent service it isn't. USPS is generally more expensive and less convenient if you are paying for a similar level of service. I ship lots of packages and you can save money on postage in some cases through USPS but you generally get what you pay for.
Unless you look at the totals.
According to what I'm sure was a rigorous study by the company wanting you to buy their widget US homeowners receive on average 27 packages per year and of those nearly 11 million are stolen. The Great Omniscient Optimal Guessing Library Engine says there are 86 Million homeowners which gives 2.3 Billion packages per year
So the theft rate is about .5%. So the average home owner would see one theft per 8 years (assuming homogenized thieves).
We've had that problem sometimes. Where my wife was home the entire day and when she opens the door (to check, not because of a doorbell ring), she sees a "you weren't at home" note. They don't even bother with the courtesy doorbell ring, just a "tag and leave." We haven't had that happen in awhile, though we have plenty of "drop package on front steps and walk off without ringing the doorbell" incidents. Luckily, Amazon sends us text messages when our packages are delivered or they might sit out there for hours and be prime package theft targets.
(I'd love to see the looks on the thieves faces when they snatch that giant Amazon.com box only to find out it contains a big package of toilet paper!)
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Shopping locally doesn't have this particular problem.
I don't respond to AC's.
I've been to scared of losing a package to try this myself though.
How about mailing yourself a worthless test package?
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
You can't apply a technological fix to a human problem, especially if the human is an idiot.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It all hangs on this: if the retailer is responsible for the sale all way until it reaches *your* hands, then it's simple. If the problem is yours as soon as the retailer hands it to the courier then you're out of luck - talk to your law makers.
That is a negotiated agreement between buyer and seller. There are copious laws about this in the US under the Uniform Commercial Code and there are defaults if nothing else is explicitly agreed to. If you see FOB on your packing slip that details exactly who owned the product at any given time. For instance if you see FOB Destination, that means that it is owned by the retailer until you take delivery of the product. FOB Origin means that you own it the moment it leaves the shipping dock on a courier's truck.
This HAS happened!
amazon compensated me in 30 minutes when I complained via web feedback that I never got my item that was declared delivered.
The next day I got the package via a different carrier with no trace back to amazon. I notified amazon that I did get the package and something must have happened on their end. They thanked me for my honesty and didn't even bother to reverse the refund. it's hard to get upset at the great evil internet walmart with such ridiculously satisfying customer service.
I also live in a somewhat dodgy neighborhood; I have never lost a package. UPS faithfully follows my delivery instructions even though they are kind of a pain in the ass. A simple thing to hide the package from obvious street view.
I live in the EU.
Whenever I make an online purchase,
- I receive an SMS from the courier company with the delivery date and approximate time.
- Then I get a phone call from the courier to confirm the delivery time and place, reschedule if needed.
- I then receive the package and have to sign for delivery. Until I sign it off, there was no delivery.
- Oh, and most retailers accept cash on delivery, so there's an extra incentive for them, as for couriers, to deliver packages successfully.
Leaving packages on doorstep is unheard of.
The best trick I've learned is to have the package delivered to your work. Most employers won't have a problem with it (especially if you are IT as the receptionist will assume it's for the department). Delivery people are a lot less likely to fuck up a business delivery, especially since they have no excuse for claiming no one was there to accept it.
Not the seller, the courier. Leaving a package on a doorstep is no less negligent than leaving it on the side of the road and telling someone to go get it before it's stolen. This should be covered under existing law.
The consumer has the power to fix this already: when ordering, request a "signature required" delivery. If the seller doesn't offer that, order elsewhere. Whatever you decide, it isn't the carrier's problem if you elect to assume the risk.
If something is high dollar, I have it sent to my office. Otherwise, it can be left at my door. In 20 years I haven't had a problem, so I'm not going to change my system.
Plus, really, Amazon can have a replacement to me in a couple of days worst case.
Here in California at least (and I'm sure other states as well) we have a problem with postal employees pilfering certain items before they even get to your door; you'll get your envelope, but the gift cards and money will be gone.
In Italy, they have another solution to avoid carrying packages to houses. During transit, the package gets some very slight damage to the outer packaging. Because of the damage, you have to go to the post office and open it there, so that they can see that the contents were not damaged in transit.
The postal workers also get to see what is in your package, as they will look over your shoulder while you open it.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
UPS stores have what are essentially PO Boxes but are not USPS. The mailing address is often an office number at the UPS store location, so 111 any street Ofc 321.
UPS and USPS will deliver there (not sure for fedex) and it can be used as a business address.
I did this for 10 years.
*Any* shipper can deliver to them.
And since the store was only one mile away, it was very convenient.
I only quit using it when new owners bought the store, promptly doubled the annual fee, then tripled it the following year.
(Subject too short, sorry :)
I mean: yay for cyclic permutation!
I'm able to have everything delivered at my office. Safer that way.
Many post office offer street addressing as an option for your PO box.
So instead of simply dropping the prohibition against delivering packages to a PO box, USPS put an additional layer of abstraction on the problem with a quasi-fake street address that points to a post office box. This is why USPS sucks. They rarely do anything the easy or efficient way.
You can get one in the UK for £200 (more or less $200), with a QR code that the delivery person can scan to get proof of delivery for packages requiring signature. Also, here the vendor is responsible for the item up until the customer receives it, so if it doesn't turn up the customer can demand a refund or replacement. It's therefore in the vendor's interests to ensure that their courier service handles things properly. And because vendors are in a better position to sue negligent couriers, or simply to switch to another provider, the couriers do actually handle things properly for the most part, give or take the usual asshat you get in any organisation.
But that kinda defeats the whole purpose. While selection is nice, one of the big selling points to ordering stuff online is that it comes to you. If I have to go pick it up, where's the advantage over just going to a brick and mortar store that carries what I need?
Look, this is getting ridiculous. If you just use the post office for package delivery, you know what happens if they can't deliver it into your hands? It goes back to your local post office, and they hold it for you-- you go by and pick it up whenever convenient. A postal worker is not just going to abandon your package on your doorstep pretending that you live in Mayberry RFD...
This is the key thing here: UPS sucks. They don't maintain anything like the network of post offices managed by USPS, and instead they like to gamble with the safety of your packages in ways the post office simply won't.
Blaiming the USPS for being "less efficient" is crazy: they *do more* for you. UPS cuts corners, and the result is a theft problem everyone is looking for slick technical fixes for.
Yeah, but if you don't use Amazon, that problem goes away and you help make the world a better place.
Many companies, huh? There's a remarkable inability to diagnose a problem, if the result requires one to admit y'all fucked up by making some idiotic fad the "new standard"...
I ordered an ACME Model 2000 Package Thief Trap six months ago. It still hasn't arrived.
This happens in the US too. I just missed a shipment from UPS the other day. They hold at the nearest location which in my case is a UPS store two miles up the road. USPS holds it at the post-office. Low-value items can be delivered without a signature. It's not a very profitable criminal enterprise to steal low-value packages!
Is renting a post office box. UPS, FedEx and other carriers can ship to PO box.
... when you order an item that was being shipped to your home, the delivery person rang the bell or knocked on the door. You then signed something that showed that you'd received it, and you took your package inside. Some shippers still do this. In fact, I have signed for two packages in recent weeks. If I'm not home, a note is stuck on my front door telling me that I missed the delivery and that they'll be back tomorrow. Or I can drive over to the depot, sign for the package, and bring it home.
I'm sure someone's now thinking "Oh, that's too inconvenient!" Really? More inconvenient than have the package stolen off your front porch? Live in an apartment? Always opt for he delivery option where someone has to sign for the package. If that's too hard for ya, there's still brick-n-mortar stores.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
There were 3.78 billion packages delivered in the U.S. in 2013. Judging by the trendline we're probably over 4 billion by now. If 10 million were stolen, that's a theft rate of about 0.25%. FedEx reports a lost package rate of 0.55%, so they're actually losing more packages during delivery than are stolen.
125 million households in the U.S., so on average a house gets a package stolen once every 12.5 years. If you figure the average package value is $50, that's a cost of $4 per year due to theft. A small enough amount that most people would just shrug and let the retailer's/shipper's insurance take care of it rather than actively try to combat it.
I have that problem if it comes FedEx, UPS it never happens.
Are you kidding me?? Let the delivery guy have access to my house ?? He could be black just like the package thieves we're trying to prevent from stealing our stuff! Think again.
On *rare* occasions I've had products not arrive. Stolen? Delivered to wrong address? Don't care. Until I receive the product from the vendor, this is NOT my problem. Investigating failures of the vendor's delivery agent is also NOT my problem.
Most vendors realize that delivery is not complete until they can show it was delivered. Most of them will also take the risk to ship without signature; it's more convenient for them and their customers are generally happier with it. But it's their risk. If the delivery fails, usually calling the vendor and complaining will cause them to "reship" the product and require a delivery signature. In the rare cases this doesn't work, the below has worked for me 100% of the time.
Last time I had to do this was over a year ago, with bogus hotel charges, not package delivery. Vendor did eventually do what they were supposed to, but not before the Visa dispute. They knew they were wrong and tried to run out the clock. When the dispute went through they refunded to avoid a ding from Visa.
The statement at the end gets Visa out of any liablity; they do NOT care. Because if you're committing fraud, the vendor can go after you.
$Date
$Credit Card Issuer
$Address
cc/
$Vendor
$Address
Re: Visa $AccountNo: Dispute Transaction ID $TID
On $Date I ordered and paid for $Product from $Vendor using Visa $AccountNo.
The transaction ID for the purchase follows:
$TID
By $Date, $Vendor has failed to deliver $Product.
On $Date I contacted $[email address or phone number], representing $Vendor.
I explained that $Vendor has not delivered $Product after $Days and that the period to dispute the charge is running out, therefore I am following up the issue.
$Vendor is unable to confirm they have delivered $Product to me, however $Vendor has refused to refund $Price or to agree to deliver $Product by $Date.
I have therefore made a good$faith effort to resolve the issue with $Vendor.
I dispute Visa charge of $Price to $Vendor. Refer to Transaction ID above.
I affirm under penalty of perjury that the above statements are true and correct to the best of my knowledge.
Signature
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Claymores (landmines) don't need to be present. If you have to, you could fill them with paintballs. Get an alert that someone is in the area of your door and if they take anything with them trigger the device remotely. (obviously, I don't condone anyone actually do this, but I shouldn't have to say that)
Insurance. Duh.
But many companies skip the insurance, because it is cheaper to just cover the losses themselves, IF the consumer actually insists on them doing so.
Unless the company can prove personal (signature) or secure delivery (delivery to a locked box), it is on the sender. "Proof" that a box was left in front of a door is not sufficient.
And of course insurance will require that a signature be obtained.
It's just companies cheaping-out, and the lack of convenient alternatives. We need more pick-up points like Amazon Lockers, now that an increasing number of purchases are made online and delivered to the home.
As a consumer, it is NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to install security systems to catch thieves. And it is NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY if the package is lost. If you want to spend some $$$ on cameras and such as a CONVENIENCE so that you will not have to have packages re-shipped, go for it! Otherwise, don't bother.
Even insured, it is the responsibility of the seller - THEY have to file the claim. But they largely don't want to be bothered. In EITHER case, if you have any trouble, start a credit-card charge-back. First, the company will threaten you, saying "oh, charge-back, we can't talk to you any more!". Then, if you insist, they will offer to replace the package once they have proof that the charge-back has been removed. If they don't follow-through, just start the charge-back again.
Sounds like a job for armed drones.
to trust an IoT device to control the lock on your front door. Secure enough for a postage drop box but the main door to a house or flat .... how fucking stupid do you have to be?
Unlike real locks, you don't have to stand in front of it until it is open.
Give it another year or two and there will be a lot of doors unlocked to anyone with decent security knowledge.
Fucking morons
Who are these people who get packages delivered to their homes when there isn't something there to retrieve them?
Why do these people trust that a package will sit on their doorstep for hours and no one will take it?
What time period do they think we live in?
I don't get the naivete.
Almost every week I hear something through the grapevine that someone in my neighborhood had a package stolen off their porch. It's a good thing I'm not on FB or it would be hard for me not to ask the hard questions of those who have things delivered to their homes when they aren't there.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
She was able to track the package online, but only when the package arrived at a USPS facility. UPS and FedEX scan the packages when they arrive and depart any facility.
That's why USPS tracking is basically useless. Tracking updates should happen any time someone handles the package. USPS doens't have the infrastructure to bother. Technically they have "tracking" but it's pretty much worthless except for proof of delivery.
No, UPS and FedEx aren't always cheaper.
No not always but pretty routinely. And you tend to get what you pay for.
Pro Tip: Most deliveries go through just fine to a USPS box if you use the street address of the Post Office rather than the PO Box address format. Ex:
Wrong:
Joe Smith
PO Box 12345
Anytown, XX 09876
Right:
Joe Smith
5 Main Street
Unit 12345
Anytown, XX 09876
Where 5 Main Street is the actual street address of the post office.
Source: Have PO Box. Have Amazon. Have stuff.
Every year more than 10 million packages are stolen off doorsteps, according to a study by August Home Inc. -- a company which sells a "smart" door lock
So how many are actually stolen per year, according to someone who isn't selling a solution?
If the police would bait some fake packages with dye packs like the bank uses it might be a deterrent. Bait a porch in an area that has been having this problem. Use surveillance cameras and put a small gps tracker in there as well. With any luck you can see him drive 2 blocks and become a blue smurf. Kind of like bait car.
Hey man, free butt wipe is free butt wipe!
It's a little depressing that nearly every thread so far is about how to be more inconvenienced just to keep stuff you own from being stolen. The real heart of problem is it's convenient and almost no risk to do the stealing of said items. One would think the better solution lies in making it more risky and painful for the thieves, not making it more painful for the rightful owner.
Something as simple as being able to get real-time notifications of package movement after delivery would be pretty huge, tracking it would be even bigger. I'd bet the people stealing probably have smart phones. Some cheap component to detect movement if not disabled by the rightful owner, do a scan for the closest phone signature or something to associate with a cell phone, and you have tracking that can be used by law enforcement to find the perp, even if they ditch the box/packaging. They couldn't act on every single one, but if the pattern got big enough, and people started getting caught, it wouldn't be such a winning proposition.
Hell, I bet even just putting a bright red sticker on the box that implies some scary tracking/identification technology would be enough to deter many of the thefts. Possibly with a reminder that it's a federal pound-you-in-the-ass crime to open someone else's mail....
or a neighbor, or a friend who stays/works at home..
Jeez, technology isn't always the solution.
In Australia if you cant have someone present for the delivery, you'll have to pick it up from a Distribution Centre or Post Office.
Heh - in Belgium they'll pre-fill the "you weren't at home" notes and just put them in your mailbox instead of ringing doorbells etc. ....
Of cause, then you get the post office (yay, bepost) and the driver "forgot" to empty his van full of undelivered packages
In my city, there is a rowhouse with a sign that says something like "Deliveryman: Don't even think about putting a package on my doorstep, it absolutely WILL get stolen." I want to put a fake package on that person's doorstep, with a cell phone and a stun gun. A little app would upload the coordinates and video to the internet in realtime. The resulting video would be priceless.
*Total darkness* "Hey Bob, let's see what we got now! *tearing noises, light, a human face appears* Wow, looks like it is a cell ph...Gzzhzhzzzzzhzhzhzhzhzhzhhzhzzzzz AHHH F***K!!
Evertime my packages are lost it has never been actually stolen. In one instance it was lost after the shipper gave it to the post office, but before it made any progress.
I've had various shipping companies drop packages off at my neighbors. Fortunately they have been honest, albeit a little annoyed. My last package was delayed 2 days because my neighbor didn't feel like braving the cold or the rain. The funny thing is it said apt 3 and they dropped it off at a house.
With shippers like mine who needs thieves?
In Australia if you cant have someone present for the delivery, you'll have to pick it up from a Distribution Centre or Post Office. In the UK they might leave it with a neighbour.
I wish! My experience of parcel delivery in Australia is that either:
- if you wait at home for the package then the driver/ninja will silently slip on of those "we missed you, pick up your parcel at x" notices in the letter box (or under the door if they want to show off their true ninja stealth) when you are momentarily distracted. Certainly no doorbells will be rung, no doors will be knocked on, no leaves will be rustled...
- if you are out on the day of delivery they will leave it on your doorstep, strategically positioned to catch the rain and maximise sight-lines from the street to your package.
Just based on my repeated experiences. On the plus side I've never had a package stolen, which is reassuring.
Use common sense! Have packages delivered to the office. Send to an Amazon delivery locker, have variable delivery times and take delivery when you're home..Got a retired person in your neighbor hood who could take delivery for a couple bucks or a friendly chat? .
come on people - think.
UPS, DHL, and Purolator use the following routine...
* attempt to deliver to residence
* if an adult is not present to sign a delivery receipt, take package back to warehouse
Some of them try 2 or 3 days. Then you have to go to their warehouse, with 2 pieces of ID, and pick up the parcel. Leaving stuff outside is stupid. In addition to theft, it can get rained/snowed on, and leaving a PC outdoors in -20 weather is not exactly healthy for electronics. Before I retired, I'd sometimes specify that they not try delivering at all, but that I'd come to their warehouse and pick up myself. One nice thing about living in a condo is that I can authorize security to accept the parcel for me, then I'd pick it up when I get home.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
So why aren't the authorities mailing themselves a lot of GPS units with big batteries and pinhole cameras and prosecuting whoever takes them? Or are thefts so few that it's not worth it?
This. It is extremely uncommon for a delivery service to leave parcels on doorsteps in England and Australia because someone might pass it and thing "I'll have that".
And another poster down ...
In Denmark and Germany they have a foolproof system, the mailman or delivery guy doesn't actuallly have the package in his truck, all he has is a pad of notices all saying "You weren't at home, go get your package at the post office tomorrow!"
I don't own a gun but will introduce guns into the conversation. As a suburbanite of US cities, I've never, ever had a package stolen and rarely see a note whining I'm not at home.
They just leave the damn package and it's there when I return.
Done.
Even when living in townhouses.
How is this such a problem in Europe? What the fuck are you doing so wrong? Is it guns? I'm thinking you need more guns.
It's really simple. Have the package redirected to a secure drop location for pickup. It's dumb to have things left on your doorstep.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
I get all of my packages delivered to my workplace, it's so much more convenient.
Eat the rich.
If you just use the post office for package delivery, you know what happens if they can't deliver it into your hands? It goes back to your local post office, and they hold it for you-
That is simply not true as a general proposition. I get packages left on my porch by USPS on a routine basis if they don't fit in my mail box. And there is no meaningful difference between putting a package in an unlocked mailbox and putting it on your porch. Furthermore I'm not particularly worried about package theft where I live so if I'm fine with it being left there why is that a problem?
UPS sucks. They don't maintain anything like the network of post offices managed by USPS, and instead they like to gamble with the safety of your packages in ways the post office simply won't.
UPS will do exactly what they are paid to do. Same with FedEx. If the person sending the package tells them to leave it on the porch then that is what they do. If they pay them to hand it to a specific person then that is what they do. It's up to you. If you are too cheap to pay for signed delivery then the risk is on you if the package gets lost.
Blaiming the USPS for being "less efficient" is crazy: they *do more* for you.
If they were more efficient with packages there would be no need for companies like UPS and FedEx. I have literally shipped tens of thousands of packages though companies I've owned and worked in over the years. I've used pretty much every major package courier (USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL etc) plus a large number of LTL carriers. USPS is BY FAR the biggest pain in the ass to do business with, has the most clumsy handling procedures, operates the slowest, their software sucks (and is usually third party anyway), and for packages above a few pounds are routinely among the more expensive options if you ship any kind of volume at all. They certainly don't do more for me - not for anything I actually need. They have a bunch of needlessly complicated postage options which add cost and slow things down. I've NEVER seen a postal worker in a hurry. If I need a package delivered quickly (i.e. tomorrow), USPS is a terrible option. Stand in line at the post office? I've had to wait 20 minutes for them to deal with a 5 person line and nobody ahead of me was doing anything complicated or unusual. That is just absurd.
There is no abstraction.
It is the very definition of an abstraction layer. USPS won't allow delivery to a post office box so they substitute the street address of the po box and pretend it is a "street address" when it is not. A FAR simpler solution would have been to simply allow third parties to deliver to PO boxes and not waste everyone's time with street addresses that really aren't street addresses. So they added a layer of complexity to "solve" a problem that they created instead of eliminating the actual root cause of the problem.
WRONG!
I have had a few deliveries dumped at the doorstep. And I live in Australia.
"... enabled him to watch helplessly as a thief opened his package." Why do thieves open packages on someone's front steps? Why not grab the package and throw it in the car, wouldn't that be faster and easier for the thief?
(We had a discussion about this on our neighborhood email list, with several claiming that thieves opened packages to see if there was anything worth stealing, and me claiming that they wouldn't do that. It looks like I'm wrong, but I'm curious why.)