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US Announces Response To Russian Election Hacking [Update] (reuters.com)
Dustin Volz and Joel Schectman, reporting for Reuters: The Obama administration plans to announce on Thursday a series of retaliatory measures against Russia for hacking into U.S. political institutions and individuals and leaking information in an effort to help President-elect Donald Trump and other Republican candidates, two U.S. officials said on Wednesday. Both officials declined to specify what actions President Barack Obama has approved, but said targeted economic sanctions, indictments, leaking information to embarrass Russian officials or oligarchs, and restrictions on Russian diplomats in the United States are among steps that have been discussed. One decision that has been made, they said, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is to avoid any moves that exceed the Russian election hacking and risk an escalating cyber conflict that could spiral out of control. One example of an excessive step might be interfering with Russian internet messaging. The Federal Bureau of Investigation, Central Intelligence Agency and Office of Director of National Intelligence agree that Russia was behind hacks into Democratic Party organizations and operatives ahead of the Nov. 8 presidential election. There is also agreement, according to U.S. officials, that Russia sought to intervene in the election to help Trump, a Republican, defeat Democrat Hillary Clinton.Update: Here's the statement by the President of the United States in response to Russian malicious cyber activity and harassment: All Americans should be alarmed by Russia's actions. In October, my Administration publicized our assessment that Russia took actions intended to interfere with the U.S. election process. These data theft and disclosure activities could only have been directed by the highest levels of the Russian government. Moreover, our diplomats have experienced an unacceptable level of harassment in Moscow by Russian security services and police over the last year. Such activities have consequences. Today, I have ordered a number of actions in response. I have issued an executive order that provides additional authority for responding to certain cyber activity that seeks to interfere with or undermine our election processes and institutions, or those of our allies or partners. Using this new authority, I have sanctioned nine entities and individuals: the GRU and the FSB, two Russian intelligence services; four individual officers of the GRU; and three companies that provided material support to the GRU's cyber operations. In addition, the Secretary of the Treasury is designating two Russian individuals for using cyber-enabled means to cause misappropriation of funds and personal identifying information. The State Department is also shutting down two Russian compounds, in Maryland and New York, used by Russian personnel for intelligence-related purposes, and is declaring "persona non grata" 35 Russian intelligence operatives. Finally, the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are releasing declassified technical information on Russian civilian and military intelligence service cyber activity, to help network defenders in the United States and abroad identify, detect, and disrupt Russia's global campaign of malicious cyber activities. Editor's note: the story has been updated to include the statement and has also been moved to the top of the front page.
Sound familiar? Some things never change
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Total slam-dunk case those Russkies were guilty of it, just like Iraq!
One thing that I find amusing: Love or hate Snowden, he 100% leaked large numbers of highly classified government documents and ended up finding asylum in Russia.
Consequences to Russia for that action? None.
So-called "russian" hackers grab private emails from the DNC that were not official U.S. government documents and were never classified at all?
Obama makes Bush look like a hippy peace protester and all of the sudden the good little left wingers start making Patton look like a librarian.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
And the proof they did anything is... where exactly?
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Especially seeing as the way this has been covered 50% of Democrats now think the Russians hacked voting machines
https://today.yougov.com/news/...
Gotta give the DNC credit on this one, they have managed to completely deflect from their security incompetence and breaking faith with their voters.
They found no evidence of actual election systems hacking, the only thing they can even vaguely blame on the Russians is leaking the damaging things that the Democrats actually said in their emails, and most of the good stuff probably came from plain old insider leaks to WikiLeaks.
I wonder what sort of actions they're going to take against Democrat campaign staffers for having such terrible email security practices?
Before we escalate to all-out cyber and/or nuclear war with Russia, will we be seeing any -actual evidence- of anything other than a very dumb phishing link clicking Podesta, or of "hacking" involving anything requiring more skill than a neighborhood high school computer club, much less a nation-state?
Although I'm sure the Democrats would much prefer the accused not be allowed to speak at all, Putin's question is still pertinent--is he responsible for Democrat losses at -every other governmental level-, as well? Were the Wikileaks e-mails manipulated or untrue, which has still not been asserted?
This red herring is becoming as dangerous as it is ludicrous.
~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
President-elect Trump says we should put this behind us. And hd did it without Putin's lips moving.
After that, the Democrats will protest the peace initiative from Trump to defuse the new cold war with Russia and call for more war.
Our Country was attacked. We cannot let that attack go without consequences.
Why not?
Obama's been calling Islamic terrorism "workplace violence" or otherwise handwaving it away, to the point of painting the Pulse nightclub massacre as "homophobia", or claiming the attack on the Benghazi consulate - on 9/11 of all dates - was because of some stupid video.
So we already know when it suits his purposes, Obama will twist facts to suit his political purposes.
And it likely suits his purposes to paint Hillary's loss on the Russians instead of his own faults. Or did you miss how the Democrats of suffered massive losses across the board in the last 8 years? Republicans now control the House, the Senate, the Presidency, and are in full control of something like 35 states. And that all happened under Obama.
Obama's been a disaster.
When was our country attacked?
The DNC is far from my country. The so-called attack, merely showed that Hillary and the DNC was engaged in election rigging (attacking our country).
This administration has provided zero proof of Russia's involvement nor motive.
The only proof we have is that Hillary, exclaimed this was in retaliation to her mucking about in Russia's election. *facepalm* So let's say ALL of this is true. That means this was retaliation on U.S. for interfering in their election.
WE'RE THE BIGGEST DAMN HYPOCRITES IN THE WORLD!
The problem you have is the person who leaked the "hacked information", WikiLeaks, said it was not the Russians.
If you read Obama's claims, he is not claiming Russians hacked the election, as is reported. He is claiming they hacked DNC and Podesta's emails. It looks like Podesta fell for a phising attack, which EASILY could have not been Russian. And the DNC emails came from an insider according to Assange.
So not only are they not releasing their evidence, there actually is pretty good evidence it isn't Russia. In addition they are claiming personal email accounts being hacked, not government in any way, are hacking the election which is deceptive at best. So the evidence is stacked against Russia being involved and the people claiming it are being deceptive as well.
Sounds like utter BS to me.
I thought it stood for Jesus..
Donald Jesus Fucking Christ Trump.
You're going to need to find a more extreme example than Polonium 210 if you're to make MickeyD's 'food' seem comparatively healthy.
Requiem for the American Dream
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Hacking is when someone (maybe a foreign government) sends a phishing email and then Podesta clicks on it.
Yep. They got hacked.
The GOP wasn't "hacked" by this definition because they didn't click the email.
This is a fools game. Retaliating by interfering in Russian politics will simply invite more of the same.
Sounds great to me. With the ultimate Red Team aiding you in finding vulnerabilities, our systems should be more than secure against the average script kiddie. As it stands some guy in a yogurt stand in Bulgaria could probably take down half our government working part time.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
avoid any moves that exceed the Russian election hacking and risk an escalating cyber conflict that could spiral out of control.
OMG.... Now the whole world know that you can screw with the US and they will punish you less than what you did to them. Nice.
Even if it's true you don't tell people. That makes Obama not just a pussy but one extremely dumb pussy.
Two years ago, Russia invaded a sovereign country, Ukraine, and occupied it.
More recently, Russia (maybe) took part in telling the truth about the DNC.
Which do you think will result in a stronger response from Obama. As a reminder, his response on Ukraine was basically wagging his finger at them, saying "bad Russia, bad boy" - no concrete action.
...and they now must be punished.
Is someone going to prosecute and sanction the DNC for stealing the election from Bernie? Or the Clinton Foundation for running a massive pay to play scheme?
Next time Voice of America points out corruption in some foreign election, should we expect to be sanctioned by that foreign nation?
And this is even if you believe that we have 100% proof that Putin leaked Podesta's and the DNC's emails.
Honestly, if Putin *did* do the crime, we should be thanking him for doing a job that the US mainstream media should've been doing.
If only I had mod points.
The Russian hacks only did the press's job for them.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The stage that is being set is very frightening. Any information that does not conform to what the powers that be want the people to hear is being labeled interference. The final touches on wide scale internet censorship are being put into place.
The capability of the internet to provide an alternative source of information and discourse is being eviscerated. It is happening faster than I thought it would. For the longest time, the government had more or less complete control of the media and the public discourse. The internet threatened that, but the DNC leaks finally made the government show their hand.
It just will not do to have anybody, internal whistleblowers or foreign governments pointing out the hypocrisy of the United States government. If the people actually realized that they were being manipulated by the government and that the entire electoral process and American Dream are just a sham, they might....
Oh fuck it, who am I kidding? Nobody gives a shit as long as the television / internet works and there is some food in the fridge.
One decision that has been made, they said, speaking on the conditiopn of anonymity, is to avoid any moves that exceed the Russian election hacking and risk an escalating cyber conflict that could spiral out of control.
Shades of Vietnam! This is how minor conflicts escalate into major wars.
The government may be able to handle bothersome individuals by spanking them once when "they're bad", like a parent disciplining a disobedient child, and expect it to stop there. But try that as foreign policy and it's more like slapping the drunken gangster in front of his cohorts.
By only giving a "proportional response", the leader(s) of the opposite side are put on the spot. They HAVE to retaliate in turn, or be viewed as weak. If it is perceived that you intend to avoid a serious conflict (ESPECIALLY if you have ACTUALLY ANNOUNCED that!), you are a "Paper Tiger" and they have no excuse to back down without losing face. So they retaliate a little harder, and you retaliate in proportion, and it ramps up into war. It goes on for years. If you're not willing to put in the effort and take the risk of trying to win it as a war, you fight on and on until your infrastructure is too damaged and your population is sick of it, and then you lose.
Once you have to go to war, if you want to win, the way to do it is with overwhelming force: "rapid dominance" (coned in 1996 but practiced at least since the Roman Empire), also known as "Shock and Awe." This gives the opponent the opportunity to withdraw and still save face, and minimizes casualties on your side. It may also massively reduces casualties on the other side, in comparison to a dragged-out, escalating, conflict. (But even if it doesn't, "... You [win the war] by getting the other poor bastard to die for HIS country.")
Tit-for-tat, with a little forgiveness to compensate for noise in the system, can lead to stabilization. But never-more-than-tit-for-tat, when confronting a strategy of a-bit-more-than-tit-for-tat, grows without bound. You have to switch to "pound-them-into-the-ground" or "surrender" at some point, or a determined opponent will debilitate you until the latter is the de facto result of your collapse. So if you're going to engage in tit-for-tat on the foreign policy level, you have to be ready to go to all-out war or all-out surrender. (You also have to be enough stronger than your opponent to make it work, or at least strong enough, AND appearing determined (and/or crazy) enough, to take them down with you, "Mutual Assured Destruction" style, if they keep pushing.)
In the Vietnam case, US involvement started in 1950, as a sidelight of the Korean conflict and the Cold War. The proportional response policy was implemented in 1961 by Kennedy and the escalation started. By the time the conflict ended the low-end estimates were about half a million dead and a million and a half wounded. (By contrast, the Iraq War had well under an order of magnitude less casualties.)
So now Obama wants to give Trump a going-away present: A shiny new, Vietnam-style, ever-escalating war with Russia, and a public perception that, if he tries to end it, or even keep it from escalating, it's because he's a Russian puppet.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
The Russians, if they did anything, didn't hack the election, they increased the elections truthyness!
All the leaked stuff, no one denies it was true.
So the USA wants to punish Russia for making US voters aware of inconvenient truths huh? Nice 'freedom' you have there!
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
There has never been a particularly easy way to deal with Russian belligerency. Napoleon's Grande Armee found itself in a frozen hell when Napoleon tried to hold Alexander I's feet to the fire for betraying him. Britain had to basically pretend the Katyn Massacre didn't happen and had to classify Finland as an Axis ally just so it could gain an ally on Germany's eastern flank. The US was forced to stand by and watch the Soviets crush the Prague Spring. The only things that have ever really worked, at least in the post-WWII era is to get Russia bound up in some sort of regional proxy disputes like Afghanistan. That is what Syria was supposed to be, I suppose, except ISIS appeared in the middle of the chaos, seized the initiative from whatever passed for legitimate anti-Assad rebels, and created a new player that ended up fucking up Iraq and buggering up relations with Turkey.
Russia certainly didn't create the Syrian situation, but it has used it to its advantage. Between Syria and fucking around with elections, a nation with a GDP smaller than Italy's, whose military has, by and large, degraded over the last two decades to regional power status, has managed to project force in a whole new way. Whether that works for Russia in the longer term is hard thing to predict, but it's pretty astounding to watch.
As to Ukraine, if NATO had rolled in there, it would have meant, in very short order, NATO and ultimately uniformed Russian troops would have been lobbing bullets at each other, and that kind of crisis could likely have escalated very quickly. I don't see how any other President would have handled the situation any differently. Neither Ford or Nixon intervened when the Soviets reimposed control over Czechoslovakia in 1968, and for the same reason Obama would not have intervened militarily in Ukraine. Ukraine is not a NATO member, it is not a EU member, and while it has had growing ties with the West, it's still not a first order ally. Couple that with the unwillingness of Europe, and Germany in particular, to wage economic war on Russia to the extent that the Obama Administration had wanted, how can you fault Obama for the more muted response?
And if you think Obama went easy on the Russians, what do you think Trump with his Secretary of State pick (presuming the Senate doesn't sink Tillerson's nomination) is going to do? Do you think he'd stand up to Russia, considering he's made his admiration for Putin pretty clear, and seems to be leaning heavily towards a Russo-American Detente, if not outright Entente?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
This. I don't understand Democrats these days. This isn't a team sport. This is our lives. How can you be silent when you have learned what your party was up to? They were conspiring to undermine you, the Democrat voter. Where is the outrage?
When I read the stories about the NSA, the five-eyes, the affront to the 4th amendment. I was outraged. I think Edward Snowden is a hero for going against some very very powerful forces and revealing what was happening in our own country against us by the leviathan. Russia did that for the democratic party. You can't be against Russia's hacking, but for Edward Snowden. They play the same character in this one.
> Two years ago, Russia invaded a sovereign country, Ukraine, and occupied it.
In 2003, the United State of American invaded two sovereign countries, Afghanistan and Iraq, and occupied them.
As a reminder, the response of the world was basically wagging their finger at the USA, saying "bad Americans, bad boys" - no concrete action.
The Bush administration set the precedent for the international ambivalence to invasions by Russia of Georgia and the Ukraine.
So the USA may not be in a position to criticize Russia on the military actions taken on behalf of its energy sector.
... when is the Whitehouse going to issue apologies and offer reparations to all the countries where it directly interfered and even overthrew or attempted to overthrow democratically elected governments, such as ...
Or helped a puppet government rig an election, such as Vietnam.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Yes because every single US intelligence agency like the CIA is so liberal
They are currently being run by Obama political appointees. You do understand that, right?
You know who else is super liberal: Wikileaks. They confirmed that they got emails from Russian sources.
No, they explicitly said they did NOT get them from the Russians. What's with the phony narrative? How does that help anyone?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
So now Obama wants to give Trump a going-away present: A shiny new, Vietnam-style, ever-escalating war with Russia, and a public perception that, if he tries to end it, or even keep it from escalating, it's because he's a Russian puppet.
Meh. I don't think Trump is one to stick his finger in the air or worry about the "optics" like a typical politician. So, he'll probably just defuse the whole thing, the media will see this as evidence of him being in bed with Putin, lots of Democrats will believe it, most Republicans won't trust the media, Trump will tweet something angry in response, and life will go on.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
“He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother”
George Orwell, 1984
The USA and a bunch of other countries imposed strong sanctions on Russia as a result of their aggression in Ukraine. Is that not concrete action?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The Real Crisis is that the DNC and their prized candidate were exposed as corrupt. The DNC invented "superdelegates" to the benefit of Clinton. The DNC chairwoman rigged the primary to favor Clinton (she resigned). A DNC insider at CNN provided debate questions in advance to Clinton (she was fired). Clinton had sought to blame a video on Benghazi (she resigned to minimize the political fallout). After too many shady scandals dating back to Watergate, voters rejected the MSM's sheltering of Clinton and refused to elect a crook to the executive branch.
The DNC did that to themselves and they are outraged that their corruption was exposed, so they sought a scapegoat to create a diversion from the Real Crisis. Russia didn't invent superdelegates, didn't rig the primaries, didn't provide debate questions in advance. The Real Crisis is that the DNC is losing their voter base even to minorities. Obama's weaponizing of federal agencies as tools of intimidation and retaliation date back to his Illinois state government chicanery and has damaged diplomatic relations. Voters saw government going in the direction of "Boss" Tweed corruption and they wanted none of it.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Because what the party was up to wasn't nearly as nefarious as you seem to want to paint it. Yes, they had a preferred candidate going in - and a strategy for her to glide through to the nomination with as little damage as possible. They chose her because of her name recognition, her popularity at the time (believe it or not), and yes, her connections - in the sense that she and her husband had done a lot to promote other Democrats. But they played it mostly straight once a viable challenger emerged.
If you were privy to the internal private emails of almost any organization (not just political parties) you'd see plenty that would be embarrassing - maybe even compromising. But you only saw the DNC stuff - and yet you're prepared to think that the Russians did us all a service. Well they didn't. Sure the DNC preferred Clinton to Sanders - largely because they thought she'd be more likely to win (being wrong on that doesn't make them criminal). But they didn't do anything significant to stymie Sanders. Even if they did the things they were accused of (and there's no proof they did), they wouldn't have affected the outcome in any state. Sure, there were the superdelegates - but they were there in 2008 too, and they flipped to the winner of the primary delegates, and would've flipped in 2016 had Sanders won more primary delegates than Clinton did. And you know what - if Trump hadn't won the Republican nomination, Sanders probably would've lost to any other Republican - though I agree he might well have won against Trump. Though, you know, Clinton probably would've won against Trump too had Comey, the Russians, and yes, folks like you - who trashed her for being her party's preferred choice - not had their way.
Snowden was an actual whistle blower - providing information kept from the public about what their government was actually doing. The DNC hackers were just trying to stir up trouble - using information that didn't belong to the public in the same way that the government does.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
They didn't win shit, the only important vote is the electoral college, so neither candidate fought to win the popular vote.
The USA and a bunch of other countries imposed strong sanctions on Russia as a result of their aggression in Ukraine. Is that not concrete action?
I'm sorry, that doesn't fit with any anti-Obama narrative. Disregarded.
1. What the DNC 'was up to' pales in comparison to what the NSA was up to.
Actually, the DNC didn't do that much at all. That part of it was and is a tempest in a teapot.
2. Besides that, Russia's hacking is malicious, whereas Snowden's revelations are clearly well-intended. So yes, you can be against Russia's hacking and for Edward Snowden.
Yes, collusion and corruption are not nefarious undertakings. If they are not as bad as you want to paint it, then the Russian hacks don't matter, do they? After all, if what they showed American voters was totally mundane regular office affairs how could they have influenced the election? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
The Russians apparently tried hacking the RNC but failed because no one clicked on a stupid phishing link.
"Stir up trouble" is informing American voters the extent the DNC colluded and how corrupt Clinton was. Good god man, did the Pentagon Papers stir up trouble too? You bet it did and for good reason. Showing the unadulterated truth to voters is not "stirring up trouble" especially compared to the shit that those leaks exposed.
Do you think that a Trump administration will be tougher on Russia regarding the Ukraine?
Think again. The Trump team signed off on every single item in the RNC platform -- taxes, trade policy, abortion, education, religion, all of it -- except one thing. They said nope, that one has to go.
You know what it was? Support for the Ukraine in its fight against Russia.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Russia did a lot more than hack DNC emails. Not that I care one bit about Clinton or DNC, but it is naive to ignore what Putin has been up to and dismiss it as partisan politics. Here's a good article in The Atlantic that provides an overview of Putin's actions. Personally, I had no idea how busy Putin has been in restoring Russia. This is an interesting read.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/12/russia-liberal-democracy/510011/
On the global chessboard, there has been no more deft and brilliant (and of late, lucky) player than Putin. From the early days of his presidency a decade and a half ago, he began to signal that he intended to make Russia great again, and that he saw this imperative as a zero-sum game: As the West gained friendships among post-communist states, Russia lost, and so everything possible had to be done to force Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, and the Balkan states out of a Western liberal orientation and back into the greater Russian orbit.
and he did this out of the kindness of his heart?
no.
they hacked both parties.
but only leaked stuff from one.
cause they made a decision as to whom would more benefit them.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
I guess we're just ignoring the Russian troops who were present in the Ukraine then?
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
those words.
you keep using them.
I don't think they mean what you think they mean.
for example, corruption is the stuff trump is doing RIGHT NOW to enrich himself and his businesses off his newfound position.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
What is he doing RIGHT NOW that is corrupt? You do realize that conflict of interest laws apply different to POTUS, right? I would love to hear what you and your mods think he has done RIGHT NOW that is corrupt.
Are you denying what was in those emails? Do you think the collusion between the DNC, MSM, and Clinton campaign are just republican conspiracies? Do you think the pay to play policies of the Clinton Foundation were jokes?
I'm getting so tired with this nugget of "wisdom".
The problem people have with this is not with the content that was released or the fact that it was released all, what they are upset about is the fact that Russia set out to try to change the outcome of the US election through hacking and releasing any info they could find that would help a specific candidate.
Would it be cool if after 4 years of Trump messing with China, China started trying to hack the RNC to dig up their dirty laundry for all to see? I try not to say things like this because I do believe that people approach issues from all sort of different directions but honestly, how can any rational person think it's a good thing that a country that has gone out of its way to be adversarial to ourselves and the West has attempted to manipulate our elections in their favor?
Foreign interference in our elections, particularly as direct as this, is not okay under any standards.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
don't make a right. Speaking of our right (wing) we mostly meddled in those countries to keep Socialism from taking root. Hell, there was just a lovely little story on the Smithsonian (yeah, I know, liberal rag and all that) about how the media covered Mussolini & Hitler. It was almost exclusively favorable until the war started. They were pleased at Mussolini's "economic miracle" and how he reigned in the Socialists and called Hitler the German Mussolini.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
You're damned right I'm outraged. The selection of our elected officials has been tainted through illegal and unethical methods.
It's not about Democrats vs. Republicans, it's about influencing elections and breaking the law with illegal access of private systems.
Regardless of who was behind Wikileaks documents related to US politics, they were almost entirely anti-Democrat. Anybody who thinks that Republicans don't have a comparable amount of dirty laundry is delusional. Why anyone would trust the veracity of these 'leaked" documents and the motivations of those responsible is beyond me.
I would think, however unlikely, that if the Russian government is not directly responsible, they should be highly motivated at this point to help bring those responsible to justice. There has to be some response and it has to be now because it is unlikely to occur after President Trump becomes our President.
There is a right way and a wrong way to fix the system. Breaking the law, being a traitor, and using unscrupulous means to win an election are lazy self-serving shortcuts that none of us should ever support.
As technical professionals, many of us have the capability of accessing private systems. Don't do it. It's illegal and unethical. If you want to change the system do it the right way through legal means, otherwise you become worse than those you oppose.
Greed is the root of all evil.
I think the people that came up with the college did a lot more research and put more thought into the system than the babies complaining about 'popular' vote.
If you know anything about Americas founding you know there was comprise and democracy was seen as a danger. If you think the Senate is a good idea, why would that not be the case for the Executive branch of government?
Regardless of who was behind Wikileaks documents related to US politics, they were almost entirely anti-Democrat.
Like it's the RNC's fault that they weren't stupid enough to 1) hang an unsecured private MS Exchange server directly on the public Internet, 2) fall for a monumentally stupid phishing scam, and 3) use email to coordinate some stupefyingly shady shit (colluding with the media and vice-versa, screwing over Sanders and his voters, etc.)
I mean, come on... if the RNC had even thought of doing anything like any of that, you can bet your ass that CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC... all of them would be announcing it from the rooftops and covering it ad nauseum the whole election.
Instead, all this stuff gets revealed about the DNC, and the majority of media in response pooh-poohs it, then keeps it as quiet as humanly possible.
Unless you're a frothing partisan, you cannot think that there's anything right about any of that kind of behavior.
And by the way, Anonymous (not Russia per se) and a leaker within the DNC were the ones behind it. Assange himself even said as much. Anonymous stated from the get-go that because of various shady doings by Clinton and her confederate Wasserman-Schulz (Sanders' fucking in the primaries being among those doings) that they would actively go after Clinton with everything they had.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
As much as I did not want Trump to win, it became obvious that it was Hillary who actually lost. The democrats need to clean their act first before blaming republicans. There was major indication for favoring a candidate during preliminaries, and possible leaking of debate questions to that particular candidate. It did not help that Hillary camp did not have any concrete policies and promises during the campaign. They were like an abstract vapour.
Silly me
Yes.
Let's pick a few. Clinton has been accused of being in favour of off shoring. Trump has actually engaged in offshoring.
Clinton has been accused of being in bed with big business. Trump is a card carrying member of big business.
Clinton has been accused of at best weakly substantiated claims of corruption with the foundation. Trump has been caught using his foundation to pay off personal fines.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Fucking dipshits lose an argument and this is all they have left. Anonymous asspulling. "We would have won if we could make up the rules however we want!"
We had 21.5 million Federal employment and personnel files hacked (including SSNs, and other personal information), just back in early 2015. Nary a peep from the President. We had a PRIVATE organization (the DNC) phished for a password (Podesta's) and the President wants to take us to war. I guess for him, politics truly does reign supreme, who cares about the integrity and security of the Federal Government and the US when there's politics on the line...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!