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Julian Assange Will Not Hand Himself In Because Chelsea Manning's Release Won't Happen Immediately, Lawyer Says (independent.co.uk)

President Obama commuted Chelsea Manning's prison sentence yesterday, reducing her time required to serve behind bars from 35 years to just over seven years. Prior to the commutation, WikiLeaks' Julian Assange pledged to surrender himself to U.S. authorities if Manning was pardoned. Roughly 24 hours have passed since the news broke and it appears that Assange will not hand himself in to the Department of Justice. The Independent reports: Mr Assange's lawyers initially seemed to suggest that promise would be carried through -- telling reporters that he stood by his earlier comments -- but it appears now that Mr Assange will stay inside the embassy. The commitment to accept extradition to the U.S. was based on Ms Manning being released immediately, Mr Assange's lawyer told The Hill. Ms Manning won't actually be released until May -- to allow for a standard 120-day transition period, which gives people time to prepare and find somewhere to live, an official told The New York Times for its original report about Ms Manning's clemency. "Mr. Assange welcomes the announcement that Ms. Manning's sentence will be reduced and she will be released in May, but this is well short of what he sought," Barry Pollack, Assange's U.S.-based attorney, told the site. "Mr. Assange had called for Chelsea Manning to receive clemency and be released immediately."

297 of 564 comments (clear)

  1. liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    liar liar pants on fire

    1. Re:liar by Enigma2175 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals!... Except the weasels.

      --

      Enigma

    2. Re:liar by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the biggest thing is: Who the fuck didn't see this coming? He's such a fucking weasel. The whole reason he claims to be avoiding Swedish authorities to begin with is just a big load of shit, and anybody who has defended him at this point is either stupid or naive to believe that Sweden is even the slightest bit more interested in handing him over to the US than the UK.

      That point is especially clear when you consider that Sweden is a serial violator of the second worst sin in the eyes of the US: Harboring known pirates of hollywood movies. The only worse sin is harboring a known terrorist.

    3. Re:liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the biggest thing is: Who the fuck is still supporting this dickweasel? I would like to think the Ecuadorians are frenetically searching for a way to expel him without looking like fools, but I am bewildered to think there might be people who are still donating money to Wikileaks because they believe in its original charter.

      I suppose Mr Assange has a new, quiet line of credit from somewhere in Russia, and he feels he can burn some more bridges now.

    4. Re:liar by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      anybody who has defended him at this point is either stupid or naive

      We are not defending the man. We are defending the fundamental principle of free expression. Assange is not being persecuted because he "raped" anyone, but because he said things that powerful people didn't like. That is wrong, and isn't any less wrong just because he is a slimeball weasel.

    5. Re:liar by red+crab · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah but we can now at least safely untwine [this] man from this fundamental principle.

    6. Re: liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree. The US doesn't even have an extraction action against Assange, and if he did come here, he'd be protected by the same laws that protect the others who publish secrets. The US goes after the sources (Manning, Snowden), not the publishers.

      Assange is an alleged rapist too scared to stand trial in Sweden. He's recently shown himself to also be a self-serving liar and a poor publisher (lying about sources, personally filtering info to publish, failing to remove non-relevant personal information).

      Those who truly support open access to info and accountability of governments should run away from Assange.

    7. Re:liar by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What good would any line of credit do him? Short of Russia having teleportation technology, he has no way out of the embassy. The second he sets foot outside the door, British police will have the handcuffs on him. Money does him no real good, because there's nowhere to spend it. He's in a prison as it is, though perhaps a more commodious one than awaits him once the Brits get their hands on him.

      Now maybe Trump will return the favor for Assange's help with the DNC email dump, but if I were Assange I wouldn't count on the incoming President feeling any great debt. Unless Assange has some juicy details sufficient to change Trump's mind, I'd say he's going to be in that embassy as long as Ecuador tolerates him. The fact that they shut off his Internet access after the DNC leaks says even their willingness to play along with him has its limits.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    8. Re:liar by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So far there's no evidence that anyone was persecuting Assange. He was wanted for questioning, tried to convince British courts not to extradite him back to Sweden, and failing that jumped into the Ecuadorian embassy. Yes, it is true that if British authorities want to get their hands on him, because he is evading arrest and violating court order, and for that alone, even if Sweden decides not to pursue him, he's going to spend real time in a real prison. But that particular problem is one he created.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re: liar by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Many have. Wikileaks is little more than a personality cult at this time. His followers are a kind of Cult of Napoleon, with their brave heroic leader stuck on his own personal St. Helena.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    10. Re: liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, Hillary didn't win the election, did she?

    11. Re:liar by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      he is a slimeball weasel

      At least now i know what a slimeball weasel looks like, thanks.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    12. Re:liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think people liked the idea of WL initially, as central go to for various, anonymously leaked information. Assange emerged as a spokesperson and then took on a life of his own far beyond what people initially supported, especially during the recent US election. Those working behind the scenes also changed and the site has largely just followed the path Assange has. It's hard to tell what his real goal is anymore, but it certainly isn't as noble as it initially was or was thought to be. He either wants to see the US in particular collapse or fall apart in some way and supported Trump to try to push that goal or is some sort of right leaning troll against the US Democratic Party (the 4chan/Reddit-right, not Pence/Bush right) or somehow has become a stooge for Russia (sure Putin would offer him asylum, he just has to worry about being arrested as soon as he steps outside the Ecuadorian embassy).

    13. Re:liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Also, forgot to mention, a lot of the Internet warrior right support him now since he helped Trump win the election.

    14. Re: liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even real weasels would never surrender to stupid sand n1ggers, which is what britts have become. N1ggers and sand n1ggers all over london.

      Upon reflection, I want to apologize to everyone here at Slashdot for my stupid and bigoted comment. I wasn't thinking, and I used ugly racist terms (and I misspelled, "brits").

      My mom noticed the comment when she brought me my hamburger and macaroni bowl, and now she's pissed and is threatening to take away my computer privileges if I don't make a sincere apology.

      I'm really not a bad person, I just got used to saying this stuff because I thought it was funny, but it's not funny, it's hurtful and makes me look really stupid. Again, I apologize, and I will try to be a better person in the future.

    15. Re:liar by Xenographic · · Score: 1, Informative

      > So far there's no evidence that anyone was persecuting Assange.

      You forget about this?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

    16. Re:liar by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wired claims that Assange revealed his endgame some years ago.

      Want to Know Julian Assange’s Endgame? He Told You a Decade Ago

      Essentially, he believes that even though our system of government is based on an adversarial relationship between political parties, between defense lawyers and prosecutors; between plaintiffs and respondents, among candidacies of opposing viewpoints, participants (or in his parlance, co-conspirators), should not be allowed the privilege of discussing and formulating strategy out of earshot.

    17. Re:liar by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Informative

      Uh, the page you linked to says they were trying to get Snowden, not Assange.
      Everyone knows who wants Snowden.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    18. Re: liar by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      Exploding drones don't give a shit.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    19. Re: liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Assange is an alleged rapist too scared to stand trial in Sweden.

      Why would he be that? Neither of the "victims" supports the prosecutor.
      A rape case is typically word against word, but in this case the prosecutor won't have a witness to support her side.

    20. Re: liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry, again, I'm just not comfortable with my sexuality and it's tearing me apart!

      Mom has been trying to get me help but I'm just not ready yet.

    21. Re:liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The whole reason he claims to be avoiding Swedish authorities to begin with is just a big load of shit, and anybody who has defended him at this point is either stupid or naive to believe that Sweden is even the slightest bit more interested in handing him over to the US than the UK.

      Yep, just your run of the mill sexual assault case. It's standard to spend $20 million plus on round the clock surveillance in such cases.

    22. Re: liar by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      His mom lets him handle the food bowl. So at least 30.

    23. Re: liar by khallow · · Score: 2

      I'm sure they have a color wheel these days for sexuality. You'll no doubt get get that sorted out.

    24. Re:liar by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Saw a weasel at the bird feeder yesterday, probably a lesser weasel rather then a slimeball one, cute little thing. It's interesting, do something nice like feeding the birds (it has been a cold winter here) and soon the rats show up, then the weasel shows up and no more rats. Shame that it doesn't work that way with Assange.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    25. Re:liar by Xenographic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It makes it hard to believe no one is after Assange, given the secrets he's leaked.

    26. Re:liar by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

      Ya, I spotted it immediately. He was really brave when he was sure he wouldn't have to do it. Kind of like all the people who claim they'll leave the country over [insert socio-political atrocity]. If they ever followed through, it would really be a newsworthy event.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    27. Re:liar by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 3, Informative

      My thoughts exactly. I once supported Wikileaks seeing it as a potentially powerful weapon against the high and mighty; Bankers, corrupt politicians, lobbyists, police states...
      But for some reason Wikileaks decided to target almost exclusively the United States, now even helping a political liability like Trump into power, playing into the hands of countries like Russia and China - enemies of freedoms and human rights.

      Fuck Wikileaks and Assange.

    28. Re: liar by phayes · · Score: 1

      Lol, the Assange apologist Anonymous Coward thinks that embassies get to label any car "Diplomatic" without any recourse from the host country.

      Here's a real world lesson for you coward: Diplomatic vehicles are not an automatic right but a convention negotiated with the host country (generally in exchange for the same courtesy for the hosting nations embassy in the embassies country. When one country revokes the courtesy, say because the other country is harboring a fugitive from justice the only recourse the embassies country has is to revoke the use of diplomatic vehicles on their turf.

      The UK has already notified the rest of the world that no diplomatic vehicles will be accepted leaving the Ecuadorian embassy containing an unsearched volume sufficient to hide a lying oath-breaking slimeball weasel.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    29. Re:liar by Maritz · · Score: 1

      No corrupt cop with the rudiments of a sense of self-preservation would take a bribe pertaining to a high-profile character like that. There is literally no way you wouldn't get busted on it.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    30. Re:liar by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

      I was pretty much expecting that. He made the promise assuming Manning wouldn't be pardoned (talk is cheap), and then got caught out when she was. I would have been pretty shocked if he had turned himself in, it's not the way he operates.

    31. Re:liar by Weh · · Score: 2

      julian, how's life in the embassy, they gave you back your utp cable yet?

    32. Re:liar by Maritz · · Score: 2

      It's £11.1M. That was released by Scotland Yard, who have the biggest cause to lie in the opposite direction because it's embarrasing for them.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    33. Re: liar by Sun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Woosh

    34. Re:liar by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Assange did not use the word "Pardon" in the latest offers. He simply asked for clemency. A commutation is a form of clemency.

      To be honest though, it was always a joke. His offer is to allow himself to be extradited to the US. The US isn't seeking Assange's extradition. Sweden is.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    35. Re:liar by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My thoughts exactly. I once supported Wikileaks seeing it as a potentially powerful weapon against the high and mighty; Bankers, corrupt politicians, lobbyists, police states... But for some reason Wikileaks decided to target almost exclusively the United States, now even helping a political liability like Trump into power, playing into the hands of countries like Russia and China - enemies of freedoms and human rights.

      Fuck Wikileaks and Assange.

      So, you supported the exposure of corruption all the way until it exposed something you did not like?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    36. Re:liar by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Nobody is persecuting Assange except Assange himself. His incarceration in the Ecuadorian embassy is entirely voluntary.

      If he steps out the door he will be arrested and sent to Sweden to answer a rape accusation, but that is not persecution either because it is the end result of a transparent legal process.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    37. Re:liar by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The reason people still support Wikileaks is that there is no better alternative. Wikileaks is more than just Assange, and the work the other staff do is sometimes very valuable.

      Ideally Wikileaks should get rid of Assange, or the staff go off to found a new organization without him.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    38. Re: liar by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      If he takes a ride in a diplomatic car, local cops can't touch him.

      However, they can touch him before he is even able to reach that diplomatic car. Indeed, the Ecuadorian embassy is in a multi-tenant building, and the staircase leading from the embassy to the parking garage is not extraterritorial. And British cops do indeed hang around in that staircase, exactly to prevent this from happening.

      There would still be the possibility of valise diplomatique but that one is only protected as long as there are no obvious signs that it contains something else than documents (and a huge trunk giving off infrared radiation due to body heat obviously does not contain only documents...)

      Leaked documents reveal Ecuadorian Embassy's 'disguise' escape plan

    39. Re: liar by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      What's with switching the i's to 1's. If you're going to spout racist shit at least have the balls do it properly.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    40. Re:liar by shilly · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How could you possibly interpret his statement like that? He supported the exposure of corruption when it was exposing corruption *with an even hand*. Once the exposure was applied only to one side of a partisan contest, it became insupportable.

      Why bother making such ridiculous strawman statements? It's obviously not what the OP thinks. I doubt it's even what you think. It won't convince more than a handful of readers. What was the point?

    41. Re:liar by shilly · · Score: 1

      No, it's not embarrassing for the Met. The Met are obliged to do this -- they cannot be seen to let a high profile suspect in a rape case escape custody -- and the higher the number, the easier it is for them to argue for additional funding.

    42. Re:liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My thoughts exactly. I once supported Wikileaks seeing it as a potentially powerful weapon against the high and mighty; Bankers, corrupt politicians, lobbyists, police states...
      But for some reason Wikileaks decided to target almost exclusively the United States, now even helping a political liability like Trump into power, playing into the hands of countries like Russia and China - enemies of freedoms and human rights.

      Fuck Wikileaks and Assange.

      So, you supported the exposure of corruption all the way until it exposed something you did not like?

      I've been unsubscribing from quite a few political action mailing lists lately for this sort of reason. Lot's of whining now that they're no longer getting their way and suddenly claiming that the very processes that they've been using for several years are "broken" and I'm not just talking about the whining over the electoral college.

    43. Re:liar by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How could you possibly interpret his statement like that? He supported the exposure of corruption when it was exposing corruption *with an even hand*. Once the exposure was applied only to one side of a partisan contest, it became insupportable.

      Why bother making such ridiculous strawman statements? It's obviously not what the OP thinks. I doubt it's even what you think. It won't convince more than a handful of readers. What was the point?

      Wait, what? If you don't expose all corruption then don't expose any? All this hand-waving about even-handedness is just an end-run around the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that WL had any evidence of corruption on Trumps part.

      Besides, the media didn't treat the elections with an even hand, so why do you expect anyone else to?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    44. Re:liar by Maritz · · Score: 1

      £11+ million to keep a pair of cops in a car outside an embassy strikes me as excessive, but hey I'm not familiar with the intricacies of policing so I'm quite perpared to be wrong about it.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    45. Re:liar by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't know what's with the scare quotes "rape", but who the man is is important given the role he wants us to think he's playing. If you set yourself up to be the person who whistleblowers turn to you have to be trustworthy and responsible.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    46. Re:liar by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      It isn't about exposing all or none, it's about trying to expose it all or none.

      I see no evidence that WL is partisan though, there's no evidence that they turn down offered leaks for political reasons.

      Also, I don't see them targeting the US disproportionately. Aside from size and power.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    47. Re:liar by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      I have altered the deal pray I do not alter it any further

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    48. Re: liar by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      lying about sources

      Explain?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    49. Re:liar by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      I think it's the other way around, they had no agenda one way or the other on who won, they just looked at who they had the most dirt on and rooted for that person. After all, dishing the dirt on the loser makes you a kingmaker, keeping the dirt on the winner makes you a king controller.

      We need a better wikileaks, this one has been hijacked.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    50. Re: liar by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Then he shouldn't have anything to worry about.... right?

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    51. Re:liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Keep i mind it is not just two cops, you need at least nine to cover all the shifts needed for 24/7. 11 million is not nearly as unreasonable as it would seem.

    52. Re:liar by leptons · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wikileaks has said they have stuff on the RNC. The US intelligence agencies have said they found evidence the RNC was also hacked. Trump is careless and no doubt has given ample opportunity to collect incriminating material.

    53. Re:liar by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2

      buttmad

      Grandpa, leave the slang to the kids, you suck at it. Nice lawn, though.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    54. Re:liar by whopub · · Score: 1

      I can almost bet this is how it all happened: Assange hears the rumour that Obama is about to 'pardon' Manning (which makes sense, since that's his line of work, and something like this goes through a few desks before it happens), and quickly puts together that "I'll turn myself in if what I heard is already happening does indeed happen". The White House, which was working on it before Assange ever made the statement, goes through with it (the announcement, that is), and adds up that the event is in no way related to Assanges claim. Some press will mention the 2 events together, and a hint of correlation stinks the whole process. That's all it takes now, thanks to Trump. He then uses the date of release as an excuse to weasel out, but the press release, or whatever it was, where that was announced is carefully crafter to ad weight to the correlation theory between Assange's offer and the announcement of the impending release. It makes me sick, but at least it clears any doubt about Assange beng a duch. It's too bad, I had great consideration for the guy. Not after his part in the Hillary email thing during the campaign, though. And certainly not now, after this.

    55. Re:liar by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Butt blasted? Fanny flustered? Shitter shattered? Rectally ravaged? Anally annihilated? Any of that working out for you?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    56. Re:liar by whopub · · Score: 2

      Were you sleeping during the campaign? He kept denying any link between Russia and the hacking of the democratic party. He acted like a douche with the Manning thing (offering to turn himself in - read my other comment on this thread). He's clearly ok with Putin pulling the strings, and with Trump's strings being pulled. Putin, Trump and Assange now live in a make believe world where truth has no meaning. A world of their own doing. Watch a documentary called HyperNormalization. What happened this week with this is just the latest chapter, and it could very well be in the documentary, if they concluded a bit later.

    57. Re:liar by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      What good would any line of credit do him? Short of Russia having teleportation technology, he has no way out of the embassy.

      Couldn't the Russian ambassador just head over there with a really large diplomatic pouch and then head back to the Russian embassy with it?

    58. Re:liar by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      And it's not just that the exposure was applied only to one side. It's also that it was strategically timed for maximum damage and/or to distract from other exposures of stuff about the other side. This wasn't making information freely available - it was partisan media manipulation, in cahoots with (or at least, in the best super-PAC tradition, in sync with) a particular party.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    59. Re: liar by Alioth · · Score: 1

      I think the police have actually stopped guarding the Ecuadorian embassy. I'm sure there's still surveillance and they'd catch up with him pretty quick if he did attempt to leave, though.

    60. Re:liar by Rob+Y. · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The proof of their partisanship is the timing of their releases. Assange pretty much declared that he was releasing stuff in dribs and drabs to keep the flow of anti-Clinton stuff more or less constant. That's not 'release the information and let the chips fall where they may'. That's agenda-driven media manipulation. Who knows what Assange's actual agenda is - but he most certainly has shown that he's agenda driven, and that agenda included harming Clinton or helping Trump or both. Whether he cares about Russia and Putin one way or another is a different point - and he hasn't revealed anything about that yet...

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    61. Re:liar by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      There's no evidence that Clinton engaged in anything criminal either. Just because you want her behavior to be criminal doesn't make it so. It's been looked at and determined not to be.

      And yes, there's plenty of evidence Trump did engage in criminal stuff. He settled the Trump University fraud case for $25 million, and still has plenty of other lawsuits pending.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    62. Re:liar by Rob+Y. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By the way, the whole "[X] Derangement Syndrome" meme is another of those false equivalencies the right loves to trot out.

      People upset about Bush lying us into war, declaring he had a mandate after losing the popular vote (and yes, barring some botched Broward County ballots, the Florida vote too), etc. are not 'deranged'. They're upset about something real.

      People upset about Obama being elected president despite being black (or because of a bogus question about his place of birth) are deranged, in the sense that they are creating or latching on to falsehoods to justify their feelings. People that think Obamacare is a 'job-killing disaster' (despite a steady pace of job creation), but who think the Affordable Care Act is a good thing that we should keep are blindly parroting stuff they don't understand, and to the extent they have strong feelings about it, that can be reasonably called 'derangement' as well.

      People upset about Trump are upset about a president who lies constantly, shows no sense of respect for the truth, and insists on punking the public and the media with outrageous statements rather than acting like a President. It's not 'deranged' to be upset about those things. If he starts acting like a responsible leader, this will likely quiet down. But he has shown no indication that he will.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    63. Re:liar by quantaman · · Score: 2

      How could you possibly interpret his statement like that? He supported the exposure of corruption when it was exposing corruption *with an even hand*. Once the exposure was applied only to one side of a partisan contest, it became insupportable.

      Why bother making such ridiculous strawman statements? It's obviously not what the OP thinks. I doubt it's even what you think. It won't convince more than a handful of readers. What was the point?

      Wait, what? If you don't expose all corruption then don't expose any? All this hand-waving about even-handedness is just an end-run around the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that WL had any evidence of corruption on Trumps part.

      Besides, the media didn't treat the elections with an even hand, so why do you expect anyone else to?

      Would Trump be in power without Wikileaks? Very unlikely.

      Is a Trump administration more corrupt than a Clinton one would have been? Very likely.

      How can this be? Exposing corruption from both sides is fighting corruption. But exposing corruption from only one side, particularly the less corrupt side, empowers the corrupt.

      It's actually one of the favourite tactics of repressive governments, the corrupt regime gets dirt on the less corrupt opposition and uses it to discredit them. Putin used it in Russia to cripple the oligarchs who opposed him, and Hoover used it the US to fight the civil rights movement.

      There was always a risk that Wikileaks could be unwittingly manipulated this way, the reason I'm so disgusted with Assange is he's been manipulated wittingly.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    64. Re:liar by nazsco · · Score: 1

      you are bashing out on the messenger. which in this case is akin to a journalist.

      remember a few things: wikileaks nor assange goes after the info. they just receive it. someone risk themselves for the info and subsequent release.

      why then is our tax being spent on shooting the messenger instead of find the party that acquired the information, or prosecuting the people guilty after the information release?

      claiming they target someone is dumb. they may at most be pawns of whoever goes after the information and release it to them. at most.

      if you are discontent, just email trump a link to a rootkit. chances are he is going to fall. but you must put your money were your mouth is. I am sure wikileaks will publish whatever you got after a minimal verification.

    65. Re:liar by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Just because lying to the American public and destroying government records without oversight is legal doesn't mean that doing it won't come with a shitload of consequences, not the least of which is you don't get to be the president.

      It doesn't have to be criminal to be dishonest, immoral, deceitful, reprehensible, and unconscionable. This is the pitfall of lawyers practicing politics. They know exactly what they can get away with under the letter of the law. If they lack moral fiber they will push that line continually.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    66. Re:liar by Falos · · Score: 1

      I'm kinda curious about this. Doesn't like, an ambassador's protection extend to the inside of his/her vehicle? Limo or whatever? Probably not a public plane, would need to send one from Russia. Clearly IANAL.

    67. Re:liar by pla · · Score: 1

      How could you possibly interpret his statement like that?

      Because he said almost exactly that? Fuck the bankers? Cool. Fuck the DNC for rigging their own primary? Hey, no fair!

      People seem set on ignoring the single most important detail about this "partisan" issue - The people wanted Sanders vs Trump; the GOP grudgingly honored the will of its constituents (even though they largely expected to lose as a result), while the DNC rigged every step of their primaries to get the "right" woman on the ticket (and did lose as a result).

      As for "one sided" - Nope!, the Russians hacked both sides, they just didn't find anything "juicy" enough about the GOP to bother with.

    68. Re:liar by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Question here.. Do you think he should only release the materials _given to him_ if he has a counter-balancing set of other releases? Because that's idiotic.

      No. The hatred of Assange is purely political _unless_ you can demonstrate that he received materials that he did not release because of his own political agenda. Can you demonstrate that?

    69. Re:liar by sabri · · Score: 2

      I have altered the deal pray I do not alter it any further

      This. Exactly this. Jullian Assange just went from hero to zero in 0.1 seconds. From "I'll sacrifice myself" to "I need to save my own ass, no matter what".

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    70. Re:liar by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      On the contrary. Assange said if Manning was pardoned, he would turn himself over. She wasn't pardoned, she had her sentence commuted. Those aren't the same thing.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    71. Re:liar by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Having your sentence commuted and being pardoned are very different. A pardon pretty much wipes the slate clean and restores voting rights - it's basically a "yeah, you shouldn't be punished for this at all". Commuting a sentence just shortens it, but does not restore rights lost due to felony charges.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    72. Re:liar by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      There's no evidence that Clinton engaged in anything criminal either. Just because you want her behavior to be criminal doesn't make it so. It's been looked at and determined not to be.

      That's not what they said. They said no prosecutor would take the case, not that she didn't do anything criminal. Moreover, settling a case does not imply guilt; guilt is one reason to settle (and, personally, I think it's the most likely one here) but it could also be that a settlement was the cheapest way out.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    73. Re:liar by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Maybe corruption isn't evenly distributed. Did that thought ever occur to you?

    74. Re:liar by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Has anyone arrested Greenwald? You seem to be missing that publishing secrets is not illegal in the US. There is no crime to charge Assange with in the US. In the UK he is charged with evading arrest, in Sweden he is charged with rape. Do you have any evidence of any other charges being placed against Assange?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    75. Re:liar by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Manning was not pardoned. Pardoned and commuted are totally different things, pardoned means that they are forgiven, commuted means that the sentence is reduced, but you are considered still a felon.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    76. Re: liar by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Fair point, clemency is different from a pardon, that's my mistake. That being said, his statement made it clear that what Obama did was not what Assange was asking for. It was some clemency but not to the extent he wanted. Seems like that's something you ought to have looked up beforehand, no?

      Incidentally, and unrelated to the argument, you're a jackass with an unwarranted superiority complex.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    77. Re:liar by D00MSlayer · · Score: 1

      Correction: He made the promise if Manning was given clemency, not being pardoned, and having one's sentence commuted falls under clemency.

      http://thehill.com/homenews/ne...

    78. Re:liar by D00MSlayer · · Score: 1

      Asked for Manning to receive clemency (e.g. commuting a sentence), not being pardoned.

      Sources:

      https://twitter.com/wikileaks/...

      http://thehill.com/homenews/ne...

    79. Re:liar by scatbomb · · Score: 2

      Oh, so if he had sat on the leaked emails until *after* the election was over that would have been fair? Wikileaks cannot sit on information until it becomes irrelevant, that's now how it works. The data must be released for maximum readership and maximum impact. That's literally the entire point of wikileaks. Furthermore, if wikileaks had any dirt on Trump and declined to release it, why has nobody come forward saying so? That sort of behavior would completely discredit wikileaks, so it would be a pretty big deal if it actually happened. I hear crickets.

    80. Re:liar by scatbomb · · Score: 1

      No, it was to maximize impact and readership. Any journalist or organization would behave the same way. Whoever leaked the emails put themselves at risk to do so. Not presenting the emails in a way that maximizes their readership and impact would cheapen the sacrifice of whoever leaked the info. *cough* Seth Rich *cough*

    81. Re:liar by scatbomb · · Score: 1

      Yes, and wikileaks said they had info on RNC, too. However all of it fit into the category of stories that were already broken, or stories that cannot be verified.

    82. Re: liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      NO NO NO, a thousand times NO. It is NOT foreign soil, it is domestic soil carved out for the purposes of the mission. The 1961 Vienna Convention makes this abundantly clear - article 21 specify what is required of the receiving state with regard to property but do NOT transfer any rights of that property. Specifically, "[t]he receiving State shall either facilitate the acquisition on **its** territory ..." (my emphasis).

    83. Re:liar by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      Money does him no real good, because there's nowhere to spend it. He's in a prison as it is, though perhaps a more commodious one than awaits him once the Brits get their hands on him.

      Like how drug lords continue to run their empires from within prison?

      Some people crave ego and power more than money. The alternative to being in the embassy is to go to an actual prison... without Internet access.

    84. Re: liar by shilly · · Score: 1

      Not seeing anybody doesn't mean that there was no-one there. They may have been in plain clothes, in buildings, etc

    85. Re:liar by shilly · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing this election has shown, it's that moral fiber and honesty are not prerequisites for being elected president.

    86. Re:liar by shilly · · Score: 1

      FFS twice over.

      FFS 1: The intent of the OP shines through what they said: they are not outraged that dirt was exposed on Clinton, they are outraged that Wikileaks used dirt on Clinton to support Trump. Wikileaks took sides. Taking sides is the reprehensible bit. The notions that Wikileaks didn't solicit for the dirt on Clinton / the DNC, that Wikileaks didn't have dirt just as damning, if not more so, on Trump / the RNC .... well if you believe that, I've got a lovely bridge to sell you.

      FFS 2: If the people wanted Sanders rather than Clinton, then they did a pretty poor job of showing it, given that she won the popular vote in the primary by 3.75 million votes. If you believe rigging delivered all those extra votes for Clinton, I don't just have a bridge for you, I have a tunnel too. If you peer through it, you'll see a magic land with unicorns and pixie dust.

    87. Re:liar by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      What was she 'getting away with' - dare I ask? You seem to assume there were incriminating documents that she 'destroyed' by hitting the 'delete' button on her email account. And yes, she had her IT guy use a tool to 'really delete' them. So what? There is zero evidence that there was anything 'immoral, deceitful, reprehensible or unconscionable' in those deleted emails - beyond your assumption that because she's Hillary Clinton, there has to be.

      The fact that the obvious, fairly innocent, explanation makes a whole lot of sense doesn't even merit mention to you. But picture yourself with lots of political enemies just waiting for an excuse to subpoena your email account in search of potentially embarrassing stuff to use against you. You'd want the ability to hit Delete and have it matter too. Again, her deleting stuff from her personal server does not delete it from the State Department's records - if it was department business originating - or ending up - on department accounts. Is it possible that she was hiding something consequential? Sure. Is there any evidence of that? No. Evidence of opportunity is not evidence. That's why she wasn't prosecuted. And y'know what. She shouldn't even have been investigated, since the investigation was about Benghazi, and her role in it was well known. She lobbied for limited aid in toppling Quadaffi, and bad things happened afterward. Not illegal things. That's it.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    88. Re:liar by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      You're right that settling a case does not imply guilt. Neither does not having a case brought in the first place. Do you not see that?

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    89. Re:liar by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Of course I see that. There is evidence Trump has engaged in criminal activity, but the existence of civil lawsuits is not part of that. From a lay perspective, it looks like HRC broke parts of the USC, but we don't know all the facts, and we don't know how common this is. I'm not saying she's guilty either, just that there is some evidence pointing to it. Not enough to indict her, but some.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    90. Re:liar by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      I'm kinda curious about this. Doesn't like, an ambassador's protection extend to the inside of his/her vehicle? Limo or whatever? Probably not a public plane, would need to send one from Russia. Clearly IANAL.

      I think so and others in this thread have mentioned it, but in this case the building has multiple office and only one is the embassy, so once outside the office in the hallway, long before the vehicle, they'd technically be in the UK. I was mainly joking about the diplomatic pouch but I seem to remember this actually having been done at one point.

    91. Re:liar by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Nobody's allowed to look inside a diplomatic pouch. That doesn't mean a country has to allow foreign diplomats to designate something as a diplomatic pouch and do anything out of the ordinary with it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    92. Re:liar by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      He's a fugitive from justice, not just a defendant in a rape case. He also made this political by hiding in an embassy without being a victim of political prosecution. It's also a high profile case. He's worth more effort than the average criminal.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    93. Re:liar by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      So far there's no evidence that anyone was persecuting Assange.

      Other than the open secret that the DOJ has a sealed indictment against him.

      He was wanted for questioning

      He's offered to answer questions to Swedish authorities if they were to come to the embassy, or do it remotely.

      tried to convince British courts not to extradite him back to Sweden

      He doesn't want Sweden to hand him over to the United States, with good reason - the country participated in Bush's extraordinary kidnapping program, handing people over who were promptly tortured. So, Assange has also offered to return to Sweden if they promise not to give him a short ride from a Swedish plane to an American one on the runway. Maybe both of those offers were mere bluffs, and he would have found a reason to back out.

      But it would be easy for Sweden to call those bluffs, and they haven't - meaning credibility issues here did not start with Assange.

  2. Yeah, not a surprise by markdavis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >"it appears that Assange will not hand himself in to the Department of Justice"

    And that surprises anyone? I see it now: "Oh, I said pardon, not reduced sentence." "Oh, I meant immediately." "Oh, I meant within 5 minutes of it being announced." "Oh, I only meant if the record was expunged completely too". Whatever.

    1. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by El+Cubano · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you hit right on. It was clearly a stunt.

      From the summary:

      The commitment to accept extradition to the U.S. was based on Ms Manning being released immediately,

      This folks, is what we call a technicality.

    2. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by LiENUS · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Clemency is commutation, assange specifically said clemency.

    3. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems everyone is jumping the gun on announcements, even Julian. No acceptance of extradition can be made until the US as applied for extradition with specified crimes and substantiated evidence. With the current state of US politics clearly under the destructive influence of finance corporations and arms industry, pretty much any charge would be made, no matter how spurious, with the intent of extended life threatening imprisonment drawn out by a purposefully extended trial process designed to be it's own punishment ie years or prison under the worst possible conditions, whilst the trial drags on and on and on.

      So Assange needs to correct his statement to, I am waiting for the US secret punishments via corrupt prosecutions to come clean with the secret warrants. Ideally Assange should return to Australia, as an Australian and should the US wish to attempt extradition, they can do so in the Australian legal system. Assange has a legal responsibility to ensure that in legal relations between Australia and the USA, that the USA is forced to adhere to the principles of Australian law when seeking application of law from within Australia.

      Julian has a moral responsibility to ensure that the US government is forced to treat with Australian citizens under Australian law. So out of the UK and back to Australia and then lets see what will happen. Will the UK want him back, will Sweden seek extradition, will the US just slink away too embarrassed to put their claim before the Australian high court (I am sure there are others that the US wants to drag out of Australia for persecution via corrupt prosecution, for which they are also to cowardly to put before a real court for an extradition claim).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by cavreader · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only thing Assange worried about is fading into obscurity and losing his cherished martyr status. The US has not even filed an extradition request and since he is not a US citizen he hasn't broke any law that the US could realistically prosecute. He didn't steal anything and publishing the information delivered to him is not a crime. That being said this guy is still a narcissistic drama queen.

    5. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by LiENUS · · Score: 3, Informative

      https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713

      If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case

      Can you tell me where it says pardon?

    6. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think you hit right on. It was clearly a stunt.

      From the summary:

      The commitment to accept extradition to the U.S. was based on Ms Manning being released immediately,

      This folks, is what we call a technicality.

      But what's fun is Assange didn't say "immediately" when he made the offer to accept extradition, so it's not even a technicality.

      This is the original WikiLeaks tweet:
      https://twitter.com/wikileaks/...
      "If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case"

    7. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Uh, the US Justice Department appears to agree with you, he has not been charged. this article agrees. The real reason he won't turn himself in is that it would be embarrassing to walk away from the yawn.

    8. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      I don't think he can be extradited if the US doesn't request it. He's just hiding to keep the news interested in him. It's like the guy in a bar fight who yells "don't hold me back!" while his friends aren't. It's only mildly better played here.

    9. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by dbIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you hit right on. It was clearly a stunt.

      It's a trend these days to tweet something on then go back on your word almost immediately.

    10. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Sri+Ramkrishna · · Score: 2, Funny

      Kudos to Obama for trolling Assange as a final fuck you. Well played, sir.

    11. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Imrik · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He is unable to go to Australia without first going through UK territory, which would result in extradition to Sweden. So it would be Swedish courts deciding whether to extradite to the US if the US ever actually found some charges to press.

    12. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      I think there's the tiny matter of the British authorities prosecuting him for evading an extradition order. Even if Sweden decides not pursue the matter any further (and Swedish prosecutors seem to have little interest in helping him stay on his martyrdom pedestal), the British government is almost certainly going to throw him back in handcuffs, at least so long as it takes to throw him out of the country. Since the extradition order still stands, that means after what will doubtless be a brief stay in a British prison cell, he'll be shipped back to Sweden.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    13. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Assange got something out of Obama for nothing.

      What did Assange get? He's still stuck in his Ecuadorian mom's basement, and now he looks like a coward and a fraud.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Except that is indeed what he said. Assange said "pardoned" and Manning wasn't pardoned.

      Except he did not. He said "clemency", which includes a reduced sentence.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    15. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by bug1 · · Score: 1

      Australia have always done whatever the US asks of us. He would have a better chance in sweeden than Australia.

    16. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The commitment to accept extradition to the U.S. was based on Ms Manning being released immediately,

      This folks, is what we call a technicality.

      No, it's called goalpost shifting and acting in bad faith. Two reasons: 1st, a release in 120 days is immediate (those days are to begin a transition to post-prision life, not punishment). 2nd, and far more relevant to this "technicality" claim, Assange never specified what type of clemency was required for him to surrender. As he phrased the offer, Obama could meet his conditions of clemency by knocking a single day off Manning's sentence.

      Look, I'm not surprised that Assange backed out - whatever you feel about him he doesn't have a great record of making and keeping commitments.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    17. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      I would imagine it would be as long as it takes to throw him out the country. He is Australian and grounds for the U.K. not expelling him to his home country are none existent.

    18. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by phayes · · Score: 1

      He doesn't _look_ like a coward and a fraud, he _is_ a narcissistic fraudulent oath-breaking sleazeball cowardly weasel.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    19. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by colinwb · · Score: 1

      I understood El Cubano's "This folks, is what we call a technicality" comment to be ironic.

    20. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      If it was a stunt, then it was a stunt on the order of "Hey, watch me ride my BMX over that jump and into the open cesspool"

      If you want to do something like that, you at least need to shout "Y'all watch this!" before you do it.

    21. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      True. It pains me to say this, but when the USG says "bend over", the Australian government's response will be "how far?".

    22. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Apart from the European arrest warrant, you mean.

      If he comes out of the embassy, he will be sent to Sweden.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    23. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Jaden42 · · Score: 1

      Unless they plan to put him into a gigantic diplomatic pouch after he steps out of the convoy and onto sovereign UK territory, your comment doesn't apply.

    24. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by cavreader · · Score: 1

      If someone wanted to "disappear" him they had all kinds of time to do so before he retreated into the Ecuadoran embassy. He is a known entity who has alienated more people than he has attracted with his behavior.

    25. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Tisha_AH · · Score: 2

      To Mr. Assange it is all about Mr. Assange. It has come down to his sexual misdeeds in Sweden and that they are not going to back down on his prosecution.

      His life will be allot less fun if he was in a Swedish prison doing a few years for rape. Then he will just be another "common criminal" and not worth bytes to write articles about his latest proclamations.

      That Ecuador was stuck with this guy is rather interesting[ Now they are stuck with him and I bet he is getting tired of eating cuy (guinea pig).

      --
      Tisha Hayes
    26. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      Not if he can arrange to be picked up in a US Diplomatic vehicle and taken to the airport to be flown to the US. Do you think they will let him live in Montana ?

      --
      Nullius in verba
    27. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      This does look like a stunt. But as always, by the time the news gets to us ordinary people it has been mis-translated and mis-transcribed so many times that you can't make sense of it. Sentence commutations and pardons are two different things. The timing of the release seems minor compared to this being a commutation rather than a pardon. Of course I also doubt that this played into Obama's decision http://xpungechicago.com/lawye...

    28. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by edtice1559 · · Score: 2

      Embassies and diplomatic convoys have different levels of protection. Plus as has already been pointed out the embassy is in a multi-tenant building and there's no way to get from the embassy to a vehicle. Maybe a diplomatic helicopter and a long rope to climb up if you want to be fanciful. But this isn't a realistic option either.

    29. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Commutation IS NOT Pardon. Commutation IS NOT Release. Assange's deal remains valid. And Manning remains in prison.

      Now all you have to do is link Assange's tweet, where he used the words "pardon" and "release", and you've officially won the argument.

      Go ahead.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    30. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      What makes you think Assange's offer had anything to do with the reduction to Manning's sentence?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    31. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by wasteoid · · Score: 1

      Just like his commitment to protected (condom) consensual sex.

    32. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Which was really the whole point of all this anyway I suspect.

    33. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps Bill Clinton would, it makes more sense at least since he is a rapist as well.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    34. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Any idea what DoJ case they are referring to?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    35. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by wheelbarrio · · Score: 1

      Ecuadorian mom's basement

      Nice one :)

    36. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      He doesn't _look_ like a coward and a fraud, he _is_ a narcissistic fraudulent oath-breaking sleazeball cowardly weasel.

      I'm curious what oaths you think Julian Assange has broken? He's an Australian citizen who is not a naturalized citizen of any other country, and he has never served in any country's military. He's been in court, so he might have sworn an oath to tell the truth at the time, but that was a short-term thing. He's never been a civil servant of any country's government, either. Those are the only places where he might have sworn any oath, and he hasn't done any of them. So, what oaths?

    37. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      he would like that, with a recreational vehicle.

    38. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by onceuponatime · · Score: 1

      Even if it was a stunt. I would say the end justified the means and he should still be applauded for that. It would be better than doing nothing and not having Manning's sentence comuted. Those who don't say that are simply demonstrating that shocking side of human nature what want to see people hurt.

    39. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by phayes · · Score: 1

      When the U.K received the extradition request from Sweden, Assange was placed in detention like anyone else would be. In order to be released from detention while his appeals of the Swedish extradition in U.K courts were considered, Assange gave multiple oaths given to UK justice system promising to respect their authority, oaths he broke when he fled to the Ecuadorian Embassy.

      I'm curious that you are able to completely ignore these well known facts. Is it that you judge that the ends (Assange free do do whatever he wants) justify the means (breaking his oaths)? Is it just Assange, or do you apply this reasoning for yourself? Does the end of getting your rocks off justify to you the act of not respecting a woman's word when she says no too?

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    40. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Actually committing the act makes you a rapist, getting convicted of a crime makes you a convicted rapist. The alleged is CYA to prevent a libel suit.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    41. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I see no good reason to think the US wants him for anything. If we were going to do anything, we would have back when he was halfway relevant. Ideally, he'd go to Sweden and face a Swedish court. It looks to me like he's blaming everyone he can, including the US, because he fears justice.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    42. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm positive that, had Assange done nothing, Manning's sentence would have been commuted. Obama doesn't take orders from Assange's grandstanding, and his offer to accept extradition to the US is null unless and until the US files an extradition request.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    43. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      In order to be released from detention while his appeals of the Swedish extradition in U.K courts were considered, Assange gave multiple oaths given to UK justice system promising to respect their authority, oaths he broke when he fled to the Ecuadorian Embassy.

      No, he didn't. No oath is required when being released on bail, let alone multiple oaths. See the section "Conditions of Bail."

      I'm curious that you are able to completely ignore these well known facts.

      I'm aware of the facts. They were not germane to my comment, as no oath was sworn under those circumstances either.

      Is it just Assange, or do you apply this reasoning for yourself? Does the end of getting your rocks off justify to you the act of not respecting a woman's word when she says no too?

      Yeah, fuck you too. That's what you meant. I return it in full measure.

    44. Re:Yeah, not a surprise by LiENUS · · Score: 1

      Three things here...
      #1 I didn't quote any post, I quoted twitter.
      #2 the post I replied to says:

      Except that is indeed what he said. Assange said "pardoned" and Manning wasn't pardoned.

      #3 I didn't reply to an AC I replied to ShanghaiBill

  3. Pussy says what? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Come on. Show of hands. Who thought Assange would really leave the embassy just for Chelsea Manning? He's holding out for that sweet Fox News money once Trump makes him an official member of the politburo. He's blond, so he might be Megyn Kelly's replacement.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Pussy says what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here's the problem... The more Republicans huff and puff about how reprehensible Manning is and how big a mistake this was for Obama, the harder it is for Assange to be rehabilitated. Of course there have been lots of 1984-style moments throughout the election where yesterday's arch enemy is today's exalted ally, but Assange might not get that treatment no matter how much he sucks up to Trump.

    2. Re:Pussy says what? by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think Assange is going to suffer Benedict Arnold's fate; loathed by everyone in equal measure.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Pussy says what? by pla · · Score: 1

      I actually thought he might do it just because he's effectively in prison now, as a way out that lets him save face.

      Clearly, I gave him too much credit. He's apparently content to live out the rest of his days in a gilded cage, grasping at any pathetic attempt to stay in the spotlight-of-disgrace.

  4. Does the US government want him? by Kludge · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Julian Assange pledged to surrender himself to U.S. authorities if Manning was pardoned. Roughly 24 hours have passed since the news broke and it appears that Assange will not hand himself in to the Department of Justice.

    Great. Has the US asked for extradition? Is there a warrant for his arrest? I have not seen that.
    How has what he has done any different than any other journalistic source?

    1. Re:Does the US government want him? by caseih · · Score: 2

      No to both questions. Which is curious given the British wanting to arrest him.

    2. Re:Does the US government want him? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, the US is not currently seeking him. There's no one for him to turn himself in to. The entire promise to surrender was an empty gesture. However, the alt-reich web is abuzz with celebration about how their hero Julian "tricked" Obama into setting Chelsea free. It's funny to watch these idiots.

    3. Re:Does the US government want him? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He wouldn't turn himself in to the US because they'd likely just end up giving him to Sweden just like the UK would, which is what he really wants to avoid.

    4. Re: Does the US government want him? by dugancent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The biggest fear Assange has is that he leaves the embassy and the U.S. doesn't care.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    5. Re:Does the US government want him? by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      The British put an arrest warrant out for him because he failed to convince the British courts that he shouldn't be returned to Sweden. At the moment, he's in violation of British court rulings saying he is to surrender and be sent to Sweden. The whole "the US is out to get me" has been Assange's attempt at misdirection since the rape accusations in Sweden came out, but no actual evidence that the US actually wants to take him into custody has ever been demonstrated.

      The British government does not want Assange in the country at all, but rather wants to honor its agreements with Sweden and return a man residing on British soil who is wanted by Swedish prosecutors on suspicion of rape. The British courts deemed Sweden's request valid, and thus sought to detain Assange so that he could be turned over to Swedish authorities, and his flight into the Ecuadorian embassy is why the British government wants him now.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re:Does the US government want him? by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I never got the impression that the Alt-right had any time for Manning. I was lectured yesterday by many Alt-righters here on /. on how Manning is mentally ill and that gender dysphoria is a fake disorder and so on and so forth. I'm beginning to get the sense that the Alt-right are filled with a lot of people whose world view could be charitably described as chaotic and disordered.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:Does the US government want him? by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1, Troll

      Alt-right here with my take on things. We aren't monolithic, so not everyone alt-right agrees with all, or even necessarily any, of this.

      Real disorder. Fake treatment. ( -- When I started writing, I had intended those four words to be the entire post.) Notice that other dismorphic disorders, like anorexia, aren't "treated" by indulging the fantasies of the sufferer. Doctors don't prescribe lap bands for people who think they are fat when they aren't. But gender dismorphia is a political weapon now, much to the detriment of the people who suffer from it, and so anyone who doesn't think we should castrate men who think they are women is an awful bigot.

      If we were honest about this topic, we would notice that suicide rates increase dramatically a few years after surgery - ending up even higher than pre-surgery levels. It appears that for many people denied psychiatric treatment, surgery was a false hope. When it sinks in that surgery did not fix anything, and there are no other options left, despair sets in.

      Perversely, at this stage, re-stigmatizing the condition is the most compassionate thing that can be done. Stigmatize isn't the right word exactly, but sadly, we are unlikely to gradually return to reality, so the pendulum is going to swing back too far. If we do it soon, the "swing back too far" won't be too bad - we can clear the pipeline of those merely confused, those seeking attention and those that are the suffering as a result of someone else's Munchausen-by-proxy. Let it go too far left though, and the pushback is likely to be violent, which will hurt those in genuine need of compassion the most, but will also damage the civic character immensely.

      At any rate, Chelsea Manning appears to be a traitor in his heart. Snowden appears to have acted towards what he believed was best for the American people. He was flawed, and he made mistakes, but was basically going in the right direction for the right reasons, and he took some care to avoid unnecessary damage. Chealsea, on the other hand, appears to have acted out of malice, with a goal of causing as much damage on the way out as he could. He may have done some good incidentally, but blowing the whistle doesn't seem to have been on his radar until he realized that it could earn him some sympathy. At least that was my impression at the time, when I was flipping randomly through the documents.

      P.S. Sorry, this isn't up to my usual proofreading standards. Been a long day and I'm yawning as I try to read it. I hope it is less sleep-inducing for you readers than it was for me to write.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    8. Re:Does the US government want him? by Mjlner · · Score: 1

      Great. Has the US asked for extradition? Is there a warrant for his arrest? I have not seen that.

      Even more specifically, have Obama and Assange (or the US and Assange) agreed on a deal? Did Obama say "quid pro quo"? Did he state that he expects Assange to turn himself in after Manning being released?

      No? Then please excuse Assange for not turning himself in for no particular reason except things happening to go his way. No deal was made. Hence, no deal was broken.

      --
      Lemon curry???
    9. Re:Does the US government want him? by mvdwege · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let it go too far left though, and the pushback is likely to be violent, which will hurt those in genuine need of compassion the most, but will also damage the civic character immensely.

      You're threatening violence and have the gall of accusing the other side of damaging the civic character?

      "Don't stand up for trans people or we will hurt them". If that happens, the fault is on those initiating the violence, bigoted scumbags like you.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    10. Re:Does the US government want him? by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      Did you actually read my post, or did you just skim it for keywords to trigger on?

      I'm not threatening violence, I'm predicting it, conditional on circumstances that I don't expect to happen. And I'm not blaming the victims of said potential violence for damaging the character of the potential perpetrators, I'm lamenting it. If the day comes when tyranny needs to be physically removed from our nation, the tools of said tyranny are not going to fare well, even though they are victims too.

      Further, I'm not saying that we shouldn't stand up for the people with actual medical problems, I'm saying that we should stand up for them by dividing them from the people that do not have medical issues. Right now, they are hopelessly entangled, to the detriment of both groups, for the gain of a third group that seeks to use them for political gain.

      You may be relieved to hear that I also have sympathy for useful idiots like yourself. (Google that phrase before you take it as a personal insult.)

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    11. Re:Does the US government want him? by John+Allsup · · Score: 2

      He wanted to avoid being handed over to Sweden because, once in Sweden, he feared the US requesting extradition, and then treating him like they did Chelsea Manning. Now Trump is coming in, who the fuck is going to grant him any clemency?

      --
      John_Chalisque
    12. Re:Does the US government want him? by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you're really pushing all the neo-nazi dickbag keywords (don't give me that 'alt-right' shit. Neo-nazis is what you are). So fuck off already.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    13. Re:Does the US government want him? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell, he wants to avoid being handed over to Sweden because he doesn't want to face the Swedish courts calling him to account on what he did. If he feared US extradition, he would never have gone to the UK. If he feared extraordinary rendition from Sweden, he would never have gone there in the first place.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    14. Re:Does the US government want him? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      You mean he really wants to avoid being handed right over the U.S. government, that tortured Manning with more than a year in solitary confinement, by the Swedes. Because that's exactly what Sweden has done in the past. Assange has also offered to be interviewed by Swedish prosecutors if they came to the Ecuador embassy, or to return to Sweden if the government promises not to hand him over to the United States. Maybe he would find a reason not to fulfill those promises - but it would be very easy for Sweden to call his bluff.

      They haven't called his bluff. Which tells any person with two functioning neurons that it's not about rape allegations and never has been.

  5. Assange lacks integrity. by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Assange posted he'd turn himself in IF Manning was granted clemency.
    The words "Immediate release" are not in the Tweet.

    Obama could have signed a Pardon to reduce the 35 sentence to 34 years,
    And that would still be clemency requiring Assange to turn himself in.

    Assange broke his promise and proves he can't be trusted.

    Now that Assange is playing dirty, the US probably just needs to play dirty and send some thugs out in the dark at night to sneak into the embassy and capture assange to extradite, whatever the risks.....

    1. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by mrvan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      From my understanding, a president has two options: he can pardon someone, meaning the whole conviction is removed and things like e.g. voting rights are restored; or he can commute a sentence, which lowers the penalty but upholds the original conviction. So, after being released from her commuted sentence, Manning will still be a convicted felon and traitor, probably won't be eligible to vote or stand for election, will never get security clearance, etc etc. Also emotionally, a pardon would acknowledge that what she did was (somewhat) right, while a commutation means that she is still guilty and her acts were wrong, just not deserving of such a hash treatment. This also sends quite a different message to would-be whistleblowers.

      So, the difference between pardon and commutation is not a technicality, it is very real.

    2. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So, the difference between pardon and commutation is not a technicality, it is very real.

      True, but also irrelevant because Assange said neither pardon not commutation. He used the word "clemency" in his offer.

    3. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      The words "Immediate release" are not in the Tweet

      Yes, twitter is a problem when it comes to write more than 140 chars. "Immediate" and "release" are too long words!

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    4. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Manning will still be a convicted felon and traitor

      No. Manning was never charged or tried for treason. She's a convicted felon, but in no way a traitor. More than one active duty general and Defense Secretary Robert Gates have admitted that her leaks caused no damage except to the reputations of war criminals.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by MDMurphy · · Score: 1

      Great response. Whether Assange turns him self in is up to him, but there is a difference between shortening Manning's sentence vs a pardon that acts as if the conviction never occurred.

      Granted, getting out is better than staying in, but Manning's time served is still much longer than senior people who have been found to have leaked classified information.

    6. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      No, this is wrong. Accepting a pardon has long been considered an admission of guilt.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    7. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      So, the difference between pardon and commutation is not a technicality, it is very real.

      Very true, but Assange only specified clemency, which refers to either. It was paraphrased as "pardon" by people who don't know the difference.

      As a sidenote, a felony does not make someone unable to run for office, although in some states they will be unable to vote for themselves on the ballot. I think that commutation was the reasonable course of action for Manning.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    8. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Obama could have signed a Pardon to reduce the 35 sentence to 34 years

      I think most people would agree though, that that wouldn't really be in the spirit of the offer, and a tweet is not legally binding. Still, Obama certainly did offer clemency here.

      But nobody expected him to actually stick by his word. He's a self aggrandising narcissist. The only people who still trust him at this stage are the sort of conspiracy nuts who think the WTC never even existed.

    9. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by Mjlner · · Score: 1

      Assange broke his promise and proves he can't be trusted.

      BS! The US never took him up on that offer! If Obama decides to commute Manning's sentence unconditionally, Assange has no obligation to honour an agreement that was never reached.

      Assange said (check his tweet!) he would "agree to extradition". To agree, you need another party who agrees with you. The US never agreed with Assange on this.

      --
      Lemon curry???
    10. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by rabitd · · Score: 1

      Oh my, so true. Also the words "integrity" and "honourable", more words that are unable to fit within that twitter account's tweets.

    11. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by phayes · · Score: 1

      Gates/the generals were commenting on the domestic damage of Manning's leaks. The Diplomatic damage done to the US and and the persecution of people like Zimbabwean opposition that were identified and then targeted due to the indiscriminate nature of Manning's collection and then release of information are undeniable. Manning is no angel and his actions had severe consequences for more than just "war criminals".

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    12. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Then you'd introduce a new loophole: "I said immediate release, but Obama waited over a week before commuting her sentence, haha, I win."

      I'm not sure that's a bigger loophole than the promise to be extradited to a country that isn't seeking an extradition though...

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    13. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      That's no excuse for writing a promise and then breaking it. Twitter allows more than enough characters to include the words "Full pardon" or "release immediately"

      If Twitter doesn't give you enough words, then Either don't post it, or post a link. No excuses.

    14. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Gates/the generals were commenting on the domestic damage of Manning's leaks.

      I've just re-read the quotes and I don't see how they refer only to "domestic damage".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by phayes · · Score: 1

      Selective quotations by those that published your references?

      Pray ask Gates/... directly how they reconcile the fact that the indiscriminate nature of Mannings collection and release of information were indisputably harmful and the the claimed absence of damage from them.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    16. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Pray ask Gates/... directly how they reconcile the fact that the indiscriminate nature of Mannings collection and release of information were indisputably harmful and the the claimed absence of damage from them.

      That one answers itself: they can't point to any actual damage, but anything that exposes US war criminals is bad, m'kay?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    17. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by luther349 · · Score: 1

      being the usa has filed no charges a pardon cant be issued.

    18. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      can he (or his successor) commute the sentence back to its original time in a few days?

      The president has the power to rescind a pardon made in the past, But it has been rarely exercised.

      See: http://www.democrats.com/node/...
       
       

      Dear President Elect Obama,

      On his third day in office President Grant revoked two pardons that had been granted by President Andrew Johnson. President Nixon also undid a pardon that had been granted by President Lyndon Johnson. There may be other examples of this, as these two have somewhat accidentally come up in a discussion focused on numerous examples of presidents undoing pardons that they had themselves granted, something the current president did last week. (See http://pardonpower.com/ ). In 2001, President George W. Bush's lawyers advised him that he could undo a pardon that President Clinton had granted.

      Much of the discussion of this history of revoking pardons deals with the question of whether a pardon can still be revoked after actually reaching the hands of the pardonee, or after various other obscure lines are crossed in the process of issuing and enforcing of the pardon. If President Bush issues blanket pardons to dozens of criminals in his administration for crimes that he himself authorized, he will probably -- with the exception of Libby -- not even name them, much less initiate any processes through which they are each formally notified of the pardons. He will be pardoning people of crimes they have not yet been charged with, so the question of timing is something you are unlikely to have to worry about (except perhaps with Libby).

      Virtually none of the discussion of these matters ever addresses the appropriateness or legitimacy of the pardons involved or of the revoking of them. The history would appear to establish that you will have the power to revoke Bush's pardons. I want to stress that you will also have a moral responsibility to do so and a legal requirement to do so. Morally and legally, you have no choice in this matter. When you take the oath of office, you will be promising to faithfully execute the laws of the land.

    19. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      All said and done.... Obama probably didn't even weigh Assange's offer into this.

      If he did.... He could have granted a "Full pardon", and then go back and revoke the pardon a couple days later after Assange was in custody.

    20. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by phayes · · Score: 1

      Yeah and Bill Clinton "Never had sex with that women" and Bill Gates claimed "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"

      When people are in controversies and there are multiple interpretations of their statements, it is foolish to attempt to attempt to use the clearly false interpretation.

      We know that Manning's indiscriminate collection and divulgation has caused damages, Domestic damages, no. International damages, yes. Attempting to advance your agenda by attempting to use quotations when you know that your interpretation does not hold up logically merely shows you have abandoned logic to espouse the agenda. Trump won the presidency doing so. Do you really want to stoop that low?

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    21. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      We know that Manning's indiscriminate collection and divulgation has caused damages,

      "We just can't prove it or actually point to any damage, or have any evidence of damage, but we just know it!"

      Sorry friend. That kind of logic is not persuasive.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    22. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by phayes · · Score: 1

      The persecution of Zimbabwean opposition members that had been talking to the US and the diplomatic damage done to relations between the U.S. and people/governments whose confidential remarks were only given on the condition that they remain secret are both concrete examples of damage caused by Manning's indiscriminate data collection/exposure.

      That you now refer to them as "handwaving" when I have been talking about them since the beginning of the thread just shows that you refuse to acknowledge proof that saps your beliefs.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    23. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Whether Assange turns himself over to the US also depends on whether we want him. I'm sure the US doesn't actually want him. We'd probably do what he fears worst and turn him over to face charges in Sweden.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    24. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Pardons have often been given when it was clear a person was wrongly convicted of a crime, and everybody understood that.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    25. Re:Assange lacks integrity. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Zimbabwean opposition members

      Who you DGAF about, and are using as mere props in an argument. Protip: the next time you're throwing Assange under the bus with props, you might decry the lack of prosecution for the torture, killings and U.S. sponsored child rape at the same time, so it's harder to out you as a hack.

  6. Re:Can't say as I blame him... by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

    Actually if you're rich you don't get a fair trial either, it's just unfair in the other direction.

  7. Assange Is A Coward by EzInKy · · Score: 1

    If he truly believed in the righteousness of his cause he would come out of hiding present his case to the public. Really hoping Trump will force him to answer the accusations against him.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    1. Re:Assange Is A Coward by Notabadguy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Trump will force Assange to answer the accusations against him?

      Trump: Did you in fact grab her by the pussy?
      Assange: Well...

    2. Re:Assange Is A Coward by dbIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course he's a coward. What has happened to Manning for the last seven years has shown what happens to heroes even when they plead guilty. Thirty-five years even after admitting the crime? It was a record.
      It's worth noting that Manning was locked up but those spooks who sold a little boy into sex slavery in Afganistan are still free.

    3. Re:Assange Is A Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Seriously. He's not that much of a coward is he. How many of you would take the risks that he took?

      Assume the worst, that he actually lied that he would exchange himself for Chelsea. If what he said actually did lead to the announced release then so what? Because he was dishonest? Would not the result justify the white lie? There are a lot worse things done to justfy the end by people these days. It might possibly discredit him but if the result was that he loss face but freed Chelsea there are a lot of people who should be thankful for that.

      Secondly, considering what is likely to happen to him if he goes to the US what is wrong with being a stickler on the terms? Why the hell should he give anything on hims conditions at all when torture for years is waiting for him. Who of his critics would do that?

  8. Exactly, this was completely expected by gweilo8888 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He never intended to turn himself in. The game plan from day one was simply to attention whore a bit and get his name in the news, which is literally the *only* thing Assange cares about.

    1. Re:Exactly, this was completely expected by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

      Funny how you make assumptions without a lick of fact to back them up. I've been against Assange from day one. It was always clear he was most interested in self-publicity, and had no real interest in improving the world.

    2. Re:Exactly, this was completely expected by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

      Except you're giving him *far* too much credit. He never said it had to be a commutation, at least not until after the fact. He said:

      "If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case "

      What's the legal definition of clemency? Repreieve, commutation or pardon by a governor for state crimes, or the president for federal crimes. There is no question that Assange's request was hence filled, and far from being clever that he actually didn't expect clemency and was caught looking for an excuse once it was granted.

  9. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is wrong. You are also an idiot.

    Snowden was a sysadmin you tool he had legitimate access to all of the stuff he released because the NSA/CIA gave it to him.

    Snowden swore an oath to uphold the constitution when he took his job at NSA/CIA, not an oath to protect the illegal activities of the agencies he worked for. When he saw what happened to people who tried to raise issues "through proper channels" he realized that he could either uphold his oath or continue working for those agencies. He chose to tell the world, but more importantly Americans, about how their constitutional rights were being pissed all over by a security apparatus who simply didn't give a shit about the little people or the constitution.

    That make him a whistle blower.

    IIRC Manning didn't have legitimate access to a lot of the stuff he passed on, he was accidentally given higher access than he warranted by mistake.

  10. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, Snowden never turned *anything* over to WikiLeaks at any point in time. He turned those documents over to respected journalists, who he believed (rightly) would be careful to ensure that no potentially damaging information about the US would become public. There was a time when a whistleblower might reasonably turn information over to WikiLeaks, but by the time Snowden released his documents WikiLeaks had proven itself irresponsible and hell bent on causing harm to the US.

    IF he had turned his documents over to WikiLeaks, THEN you could make the case that he was not a whistleblower but a traitor. But he did not. He turned them over to journalists, and exposed a hell of a lot of government corruption and civil rights violations in the process. Most people consider exposing corruption while taking great precautions to ensure no undue damage occurs to be whistleblowing, which is why people keep referring to Snowden as a whistleblower.

  11. Assange answer? by EzInKy · · Score: 1

    It is legal to grab pussy on a whim in well over half the world.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    1. Re:Assange answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      The male half?

  12. Surprise! by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    From the WIkileaks twitter account:

    "Assange is still happy to come to the US provided all his rights are guarenteed despite White House now saying Manning was not quid-quo-pro."

    1. Re:Surprise! by Sri+Ramkrishna · · Score: 1, Funny

      Who cares? Isn't his buddy Trump in charge in two days? The two alleged accused rapists can meet up and party up and feel each other's pain.

  13. WHat I said on ars: by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is what I said on Ars. It applies equally here.

    1. It is premature to say that Assange is weaseled out until Manning is actually out of jail.
    2. There is a difference between a pardon and commutation. Manning certainly will not be able to live the same life as though Mannig were pardoned. There are still restrictions placed on a person whose sentence was commuted. Whether those differences are significant enough is up to debate.
    3. The biggest thing to strike me is that this suggests that there will be no last minute pardon of Hillary. The arguments that Obama gives for not pardoning Snowden apply equally to Hillary. We shall see.

    1. Re:WHat I said on ars: by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Informative

      And what pray tell is Hillary going to be pardoned for? She's been investigated more than any candidate in US history, and if there was something to bring charges against her over, it would have happened by now. And if you think Trump is going to pursue charges, then you're nuts, because if Trump does that, then it would invite his successor, should that successor be a Democrat, to do the same to him, and so on and so forth. ]

      You can safely abandon the Clinton criminal syndicate rhetoric now. She's not going to be President, Trump has won, so can we all just please move on..

      And yes, Assange is a weasel. This has nothing to do with the US, which has never put out an arrest warrant for him and has never shown any actual desire to bring him into custody. Demanding clemency from people who have no obvious intention of even laying charges against him is ludicrous. His legal problems are with Swedish and British authorities.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      What was Assange's quote? Because that matters a lot to your argument.

    3. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Assange said "clemency", not a pardon. Commutation is clemency.
      Heck, it's even pretty immediate, not like the sentence was reduced to 10 years, the sentence was reduced to "now".

    4. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is a difference between a pardon and commutation.

      ...which doesn't matter, of course, because the Wikipedia specifically said "clemency" (which is explicitly defined as including commutation). There is also a difference between jeans and grapefruit, but that's also irrelevant to the topic at hand.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    5. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The biggest thing to strike me is that this suggests that there will be no last minute pardon of Hillary. The arguments that Obama gives for not pardoning Snowden apply equally to Hillary.

      You're under the delusion that Hillary committed a crime, which she did not. The Department of State is under a different system and requirements for handling classified information than the rest of the government. The reason this is so, is because the Secretary of State needs to freedom to decide how to handle, or even release, information. Hillary, in the role of Secretary of State, was the ultimate arbiter of how different information would be handled. She was not bound by the CIA's, the DoD's, or any other intelligence agencies decision to classify information. This arrangement is enshrined in our law.

      Think about it for a second. The Secretary of State is responsible for negotiations and diplomacy with foreign powers. That means Hillary needed the freedom to, if she deemed necessary, be able to lean over and whisper at Vladimir any nugget of information she needed in order to exercise her power; in example, something that lets the Russians know that the US knows what they're up to even if that means the info came from a classified source. The Secretary of State needs to be able to conduct those conversations without some dipshit Congressman from a state from the opposite political party screaming "Traitor!

      The mass media press failed to explain the legalities of the issues and instead breathlessly rushed to print "Emails found!" without any explanation on why any of it mattered or not. So, quit with the "Hillary is a criminal" bullshit. You're wrong.

    6. Re:WHat I said on ars: by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 1

      Well then there is nothing to worry about and we agree that Obama should not pardon Hillary.

      As for the "Clinton Crime Syndcycatge Rhetoric" being over, you have heard that she is contemplating running for mayor of NY.

    7. Re:WHat I said on ars: by ckatko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The almost universal praise in this thread for calling Julian a prick, is way more telling. There is NO WAY a rational person can look at the Julian situation and have an easy, simple, answer painting Julian as the bad guy. What the governments have done to him, they could do to any of us. And the fact that normally "skeptical" Slashdotters are almost completely in agreement here, is very telling.

      I would not be surprised at all to find a number of these accounts run by the US government. This sounds entirely like a planned PR storm. Like pardoning Chelsea was intentionally done (since his prison has NO real international effects... he's not working for any foreign country or has any access to any new information) to ruin Julian's global reputation by giving him something he never thought was possible, to push him into a PR corner. And the icing on the cake is the almost wall-to-wall condemnation of a man that a week ago people were skeptically supporting in mass.

      You mean to tell me everyone just MAGICALLY stopped supporting him? Even if he was the bad guy, the amount of stubbornness in humans would suggest he'd still have tons of vocal supporters. So this wall-to-wall coverage sure-as-hell sounds to me like an US army of armchair warriors have been unleashed to push public opinion across social media.

      And don't even act like PSYOPS doesn't exist, or that Congress didn't JUST PASS A LAW (see H.R. 6393) enabling the US to fund armies of computer users to "counter the false news agenda." You'd have to be completely dense to think that the US wouldn't use known psyops departments, and known congressional bills legalizing "anti-propoganda" against a man the US has said "is in bed with Russia." When the BILL ITSELF was designed to target "Russian Propaganda." Julian == Russian Supporter (according to the US), and a bill targeting Russian Support on social media just got passed, and they're NOT here today? Bull, fuckin', honkey.

    8. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between a pardon and commutation. Manning certainly will not be able to live the same life as though Mannig were pardoned. There are still restrictions placed on a person whose sentence was commuted. Whether those differences are significant enough is up to debate.

      Assange only specified clemency, which is satisfied by commutation. Hell, he only specified clemency, which would technically have been satisfied by commutation to 34 years and 364 days.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    9. Re:WHat I said on ars: by rabitd · · Score: 2

      Oh damn you caught me. You're right, I'm on the government payroll and I've been paid to tell you that I think Julian is a slimy weasel.

      The truth is I'm not even American, Russian or traditionally employed by anyone. This post is only my opinion, and not a particularly important one at that, but the opinion of one who has the gall to believe you might be wrong. *shrug* At one time this very old school privacy nerd vehemently supported wikileaks, but learned to hate Julian when he, IMHO, jumped the shark with the panama papers. Around then it became obvious to me that his philosophy and mine espoused *very* different interpretations of his supposed driving principle of "information wants to be free". I believe all information on all parties should be treated equally and should be liberated to enact change as it will. Julian clearly believes information is leverage to apply pressure forcing change toward a particular goal he envisions. He has an agenda and it's not, at least by my standards, hacker or cypherpunk compatible and I'd really appreciate it if he kept his slimy hands and suspect narrative off the freed bits and bytes.

      FWIW I support Chelsea's release. I think Snowden did the right thing, and believe psyops both exist and are being actively deployed world wide. I feel you might be existing in some weird backwards eddy of internet information if you don't realise that there are currently multiple paid adversaries (US & Russia being only the two largest, DNC & RNC being the most political) that are currently manipulating "grass roots" internet sentiment.

      One thing that makes me believe the anti Julian sentiment is real is that it's always been there just modded/scored/deleted/buried below the surface. You just had to go look for it where the bots had buried it so it wasn't so visible. Ever since the end of the election a *lot* of pro-Trump, pro-Russian, pro-Wikileaks accounts have suddenly gone dark across the entire social media landscape, and that has left a lot of people confused because the massive "grass roots" support those ideas once had isn't there and is now easily drowned out by the remaining legitimate accounts, and those once hidden comments/posts are now easily visible. In other words this anti Julian hate has been here for quite some time but was drowned out by all the election propaganda. Of course an alternative explanation is ..

      I just earned my two dollars (quite a good rate too btw) for attempting to change your mind or at least for sowing doubt in the truth of your post and pushing my alternate narrative. You know, active measures and all that.

    10. Re:WHat I said on ars: by colinwb · · Score: 1

      "The almost universal praise in this thread for calling Julian a prick, is way more telling. There is NO WAY a rational person can look at the Julian situation and have an easy, simple, answer painting Julian as the bad guy. What the governments have done to him, they could do to any of us. And the fact that normally "skeptical" Slashdotters are almost completely in agreement here, is very telling. I would not be surprised at all to find a number of these accounts run by the US government. This sounds entirely like a planned PR storm. Like pardoning Chelsea was intentionally done (since his prison has NO real international effects... he's not working for any foreign country or has any access to any new information) to ruin Julian's global reputation by giving him something he never thought was possible, to push him into a PR corner. And the icing on the cake is the almost wall-to-wall condemnation of a man that a week ago people were skeptically supporting in mass."
      --My initial reaction to your post was to ask whether you seriously believe that the US government cares sufficiently - or indeeed at all - about what's said on Slashdot that it might deliberately set up fake accounts to post on Slashdot. Then a bit later I started wondering whether your post might actually be a rather good troll, in which case congratulations!

    11. Re:WHat I said on ars: by wheelbarrio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What rock have you been living under? Plenty of originally supportive folks decided Assange was a dickhead a long time ago. I myself have been saying so in this very place for years, most recently just two months ago. And I'm not American let alone on some American psyops payroll, I'm an Australian who believes in freedom, whistleblowing and exposing corruption - you know, all the things that wikileaks used to stand for. So you can fuck right off.

    12. Re:WHat I said on ars: by maple_shaft · · Score: 1

      I can sympathize with this narrative and it is pretty much verified at this point that the "reputation management" industry is a very real scourge on the Internet today. I suspected this was involved back when I saw the flood of comments and opinion pieces villifying and blaming Sanders and Stein for Trump's victory.

      On this matter though I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment here, mostly based on a good deal of thought on real life experiences that I have. My wife has always disliked Assange and she jumped on this bandwagon quite willingly of demonizing him. I can assure you I know a thing or two about her, and I can promise she is not part of any PR campaign she is aware of. Let me offer a simpler explanation.

      If anything this election season has taught myself and many people is that there are a lot of powerful entities with a vested interest in public opinion being swayed one way or another. Each side is accusing the other of fake news and both sides are using various disingenuous tactics and journalistic practices to confirm this on all sides. People simply are skeptical of everything. Human nature is such that not having conviction in your beliefs is stressful. We may be on the fence, unsure of what to believe, and we will be hyper focused looking for a tiny little piece of evidence to send us over the edge to a strong conviction.

      Julian Assange has been a net positive benefit for society in general. There is also a huge smear campaign against him that is hard to verify. We all suspect that the rape charges against him may have been a snare to get him under control and punish him, but we can't know for sure that he didnt in fact commit these crimes. This statement in light of his tweet shows us something concrete and negative about his character that millions of people will have an overblown and visceral reaction to because it is so clear and easily verified. There is no doubt what was said in his tweet versus what is said by his lawyer. This was that one small piece of evidence that people were looking for to give them the conviction of belief they so desperately want.

    13. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Duds · · Score: 1

      Yep, she's being released literally as fast as it's possible to be.

    14. Re:WHat I said on ars: by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What the governments have done to him, they could do to any of us.

      Followed up on the suspicion of a crime?
      Attempted to arrest him for breaching bail conditions?

      Yes I hope the governments do ALL of that to EVERYONE.

    15. Re:WHat I said on ars: by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Eh, the lefties on /. decided Assange is a bad man now that he exposed the corruption of the DNC and Hillary Clinton, allowing Trump to win the election. They loved Julian when he was exposing Bush era war crimes, but as soon as he exposed their corruption they got mad. So mad they're actually believing evidence-free claims from the CIA about scary Russian cyberhackers. Before this election those three letter agencies were four letter words on slashdot, but now if you don't with 100% certainty believe Putin personally hacked the entirety of time and space to elect Trump then oh my God who are you to doubt the conclusions of the US intelligence community?! I mean, would they lie to you?!

      Used to be if the CIA said the sky was blue slashdotters would stick their heads out of the basement to check. But Trump Derangement Syndrome has got them believing anything the spooks jizz in their ears.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    16. Re:WHat I said on ars: by luther349 · · Score: 1

      you clearly have no idea how things work hear the top 1% are above the law.

    17. Re:WHat I said on ars: by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Speaking as one who tries to be rational....

      This is how I think things went. Assange moved to Sweden, not fearing extraordinary rendition to the US. He got sexually involved with a couple of women. I don't know exactly what he did, although I've read statements. The women's statements do show that rape charges may well be in order. There follows some things that I've only heard from sources I don't entirely trust, and who in some cases are clearly as ignorant as I am of Swedish law. Assange goes to the UK, which is a really dumb thing to do if you're afraid of being extradited to the US. Sweden files an extradition request, and Assange appeals against it. The UK court system systematically goes through it, and decides that the alleged acts do constitute a serious crime under UK law, and that the evidence supporting the allegation is reasonable. The UK agreed to send Assange back to Sweden to stand trial.

      At this point, Assange fled, since he didn't want to face trial in Sweden. He took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, and claimed that he was afraid of being sent to the US.in order to avoid saying that he didn't want to go to Sweden for his trial, despite having no evidence that the US wanted him.

      This explains the facts I've seen on the case nicely. It doesn't rely on speculation on what governments might be doing. It explains why Assange might go to Sweden in the first place, despite later claims that he fears Sweden will cooperate in turning him over to the US. It's an easy, simple answer that paints Assange as the closest thing to a bad guy the story has.

      I'm not a government operative, although until more than twenty-five years ago I worked for a county government. If you want me to pay attention to you, address my reasoning. Don't pull an ad hominem. ("You're stupid so your argument's wrong" is an ad hominem. "Your argument is stupid so you must be too" is not. Just to clarify.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    18. Re:WHat I said on ars: by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      believe that the US government cares sufficiently - or indeeed at all - about what's said on Slashdot

      In the comments of the articles about the Russian anschluss of the Crimea and the shooting down of the airliner by a Russian missile, there sure seemed to be Russian shills active. It surprised me. So, stranger things have happened.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    19. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      What rock have you been living under? Plenty of originally supportive folks decided Assange was a dickhead a long time ago.

      You just gave the definition of a concern troll.

      most recently just two months ago

      Wow. If I end up saying something stupid, I don't make a point of referencing the stupidity later on:

      To summarize: "I only publishes whats I gets and my Russian handlers didn't give me anything damaging on Trump, so... I no publish anything".

      1) Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business. If you want Wikileaks to publish information on Trump, the RNC, Russia or the price of rice in China, then get off your lazy ass and start hacking.

      2) Russian handlers? That's so stupid it's not worth responding to.

      So you can fuck right off.

      Go fuck yourself, concern troll. At your next troll meeting, you might suggest that you and your fellow trolls back up these character attacks on Assange, so you can't be dismissed as tools in .002 seconds.

    20. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      At one time this very transparent concern troll vehemently faked support for wikileaks, but learned to hate Julian when he

      FTFY.

      I believe all information on all parties should be treated equally and should be liberated to enact change as it will. Julian clearly believes information is leverage to apply blah blah blah blah

      Wikileaks is in the publishing-of-leaks business, not the hacking business. They can only publish what they've been given. So if you want them to publish RNC emails or Trumps tax returns, stop engaging in empty character assassination and get busy hacking.

    21. Re:WHat I said on ars: by wheelbarrio · · Score: 1

      You just gave the definition of a concern troll.

      Not really, no, given the topic of the OP and the ludicrous assertions in the post I was responding to that essentially claimed all criticism of Assange had sprung up in the last week from "an [sic] US army of armchair warriors". But don't let facts and context get in the way when you're on troll roll, eh?

      Wow. If I end up saying something stupid, I don't make a point of referencing the stupidity later on:

      I very happily stand by my judgement and comments. You on the other hand seem to be suffering butthurt because... I don't know, your idol turned out to have feet of clay? That's ok, It happens to everyone, but you'll grow out of it. Leaktivism will (hopefully) survive Assange the Dick.

      Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business.

      Yes that really is the issue right there, isn't it? Because either wikileaks is a publisher, and Julian is editor-in-chief and responsible for policy, or it's a dumb pastebin/liveleaks type dumping ground and what role does that leave for him? And when you have the editor/figurehead/sometime-saint on the one hand saying that wikileaks' policy is fighting for openness and justice, even offering to sacrifice his own limited freedom to obtain clemency for Manning, and then on the other hand acting not only in a blatantly partisan fashion - remember wikileaks' criticism of Panama papers? The October surprise? Threats to release personal details of journalists families? but straight out in cowardly bad faith - no wikileaks material on Putin at all, no follow through on the Manning quid pro quo - then you have right there an enormous, flaming, king-size hypocrite.

      2) Russian handlers? That's so stupid it's not worth responding to.

      Indulge me and my stupidity, and respond anyway. Before you do, how about actually read the link in my old stupid comment to an eyewitness account from a Russian dissident, also look up the definitions of "mouthpiece" and "stooge". The best assets don't even ask to be paid in vodka or big macs, they do it for free because they've got their own motivations.

      At your next troll meeting, you might suggest that you and your fellow trolls back up these character attacks on Assange, so you can't be dismissed as tools in .002 seconds.

      So hurtful.

    22. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Not really

      Yes. Really. "I used to support you until I had these Concerns!" == concern trolling.

      I very happily stand by my judgement and comments. You on the other hand seem to be suffering butthurt because... I don't know, your idol turned out to have feet of clay? That's ok, It happens to everyone, but you'll grow out of it. Leaktivism will (hopefully) survive Assange the Dick.

      Your hand waving and butthurt attempt at avoidance are noted. What part of "Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business" did you have a hard time understanding? If you want Assange to publish dirt on the Kochs, Santa Claus, whomever, then get busy hacking so you can give him something to publish.

      Yes that really is the issue right there, isn't it? Because either wikileaks is a publisher, and Julian is editor-in-chief and responsible for policy, or blah blah blah blah

      Word salad is boring and needs more radishes. And again, if you think Wikileaks isn't leaking something you want seen, then stop whining and start poking at some servers. Otherwise, you're just another partisan hack engaging in character assassination. Or you could go work for David Brock, he's still in business, and then you could start getting paid for this tripe.

    23. Re:WHat I said on ars: by wheelbarrio · · Score: 1

      Yes. Really. "I used to support you until I had these Concerns!" == concern trolling.

      Again, no. Concern trolling is defined by the intent to disrupt the discourse by falsely representing one's motivations, not by the simple presence of a clause stating that "I don't believe x anymore" - particularly when the statement as in this case was a simple, if heated refutation of the stupid claim that "everyone used to believe in x until a week ago, so anyone who says they don't believe in it now is an American sockpuppet". But I think you know that, you just enjoy calling people names. If you really thought I were a troll, aren't you a little old to be feeding the likes of me?

      Your hand waving and butthurt attempt at avoidance are noted.

      What, like in a little black book or something? That sounds kind of authoritarian.

      Yes that really is the issue right there, isn't it? Because either wikileaks is a publisher, and Julian is editor-in-chief and responsible for policy, or blah blah blah blah

      Word salad is boring and needs more radishes.

      And your failure to address the substance of a literally a single one of the points I made shows just how empty your argument is. Except it's not really argument is it, it's just name-calling informed by anarcho-syndicalist dogmatism - or somesuch drivel - tossed off without a thought. You don't have to stick to the party line on every bloody thing you know, you're allowed to have your own thoughts. Or a debate, with someone who probably agrees with you on more positions than not.

    24. Re:WHat I said on ars: by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Again, no. Concern trolling is defined by the intent to disrupt the discourse by falsely representing one's motivations

      Again, yes. Concern trolling is pretending to be supportive or sympathetic to a person or cause, but you just have these concerns about how they are doing it. The more baseless the concern, the bigger the concern troll.

      And your failure to address the substance of a literally a single one of the points I made shows just how empty your argument is.

      You haven't made a single point, just repeated the same old FUD and character assassination on Assange without bothering to back it up, while ignoring the central flaw in your premise:

      Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business. If you want them to publish something, go hack something.

      Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business. If you want them to publish something, go hack something.

      Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business. If you want them to publish something, go hack something.

      Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business. If you want them to publish something, go hack something.

      Sunk in yet? Assange can only put out what he's been given, and they have published hundreds of thousands of documents on Russia in the past. If you have such a hard on for Pootie Poot's emails or Trump's tax records, go find a Starbucks with WiFi and get to work.

    25. Re:WHat I said on ars: by wheelbarrio · · Score: 1

      Oh, FFS I tried. You really are obtuse. My point, made tersely in my original response to Katko and pertaining directly to the topic of the OP, elaborated on with examples after you came white-knighting in here, being that Julian Assange is a dick - prone to behaving in a sanctimonious, hypocritical, cowardly fashion - said nothing whatever about wikileaks but is indeed largely predicated on accepting the claim that "Wikileaks is in the publishing business, not the hacking business". So just keep repeating it. Either wikileaks is a dumb clearing-house or wikileaks is a legitimate publisher. If the former, Assange is at best some kind of unusually self-aggrandizing but otherwise tangential media commentator, guilty in this case only of lying about his willingness to trade himself for Manning - but if the latter, he's responsible for the at best shoddy job and terrible lapses of judgement and at worst the utterly venal nature of wikileaks' editorial policy - the failure to protect the innocent, the failure to champion let alone act on journalistic principles of fairness, independence and accountability, the threat to use information withheld for purposes of damage or retaliation etc. etc. Give me a good old fashioned partisan hack any day over the smooth untroubled hypocrite who believes he acts on principle. /communication

  14. Wrong. Totally made up. False news. Sad. by mmell · · Score: 1, Funny

    Assange never said that. Totally made up. Another example of the lying media.

  15. Re:Can't say as I blame him... by Boronx · · Score: 1

    And he attempted to cover it up.

  16. Maybe he would return by backslashdot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe he would return if our prison system focused on rehabilitation rather than abuse and over-revenge without any regard to the fact that released prisoners are angrier, less remorseful, and more evil?
    Maybe he would return if the prosecutors saw the justice system as something other than a game they must win?

    Why would anyone subject themselves or anyone else to our justice and prison system? Why would anyone subject anyone besides the worst violent criminals to it? It doesn't do anything but further scramble the criminal mind.

    1. Re:Maybe he would return by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In a society of thieves, all one has to do is be born, and the scramble begins.

    2. Re:Maybe he would return by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      prison system focused on rehabilitation

      Because rehabilitation doesn't really work. The vast majority (like 85%) of people who have any contact with the justice system never again have contact with the justice system. Even a weekend in the drunk tank does it. They are scared fucking straight. So "rehabilitation" doesn't do anything for them...they don't need it. The other 15% are repeat offenders who are too stupid to engage in long term planning (we're talking IQs in the 70s and 80s here), so they go right back out and commit crimes because they are mentally incapable of thinking ahead to the consequences. So the best option is removal from society. Put them in jail where they can't hurt people. But you can't "rehabilitate" stupid.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  17. Re:What? by Imrik · · Score: 1

    Clemency = {pardon, commuting, reprieve}

    (possibly others, but those are the only ones I can think of)

  18. Re:Can't say as I blame him... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Do you have some evidence of any "hardon"? There have been some pretty intemperate remarks from the US intelligence community about Assange, and obviously the current US Administration, not to mention quite a few lawmakers in both parties, don't like the man, but there's been no charges laid against him, no request for his extradition, indeed no legal proceedings at all. I've heard many a tale spun about how he's going to end up in some Third World hellhole with car battery leads tied to his testicles while a CIA operative takes notes, but since that sort of thing is thus far unevidenced conspiracy theory, I see no reason to give it any particular credence. He's wanted for questioning by Swedish authorities on allegations of rape, and wanted by the British police and the Home Secretary because he's a foreign national on British soil who is supposed to be extradited to Sweden and is currently evading arrest.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  19. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Exactly. Probably the single biggest blow to Wikileaks, and the point where I think that organization jumped the shark, is that Snowden eclipsed it both in the extent of the leak, and in the fact that, whatever you think of Snowden, he worked with actual journalists

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  20. Re:Where's that 7 years coming from? by Whatsisname · · Score: 1

    May 2010. It took me about 15 seconds to look it up, why didn't you bother to?

  21. Re:One action does not define a man by sheramil · · Score: 1

    And further further, he may simply be waiting until Manning is *actually* released before giving himself up.

    (Homer Simpson voice) Now who's being naive?

  22. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    Wow! The most Insightful post of the year!

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  23. I just have one simple question. by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For all of this spectacle, all the attention paid to the actors and pawns in this charade--Assange, Manning, Snowden, Obama, the US government, Sweden, UK--what has ever come of the actual substance of these disclosures? Has no one bothered to ask who should be held accountable for the lives of those journalists shot down in Iraq? Has no one lifted a finger to ensure that the NSA does not continue to violate the US Constitution?

    Why is this such a difficult issue for so many people to stay focused on? Why is it that, even now, people are still focused on the players and not the crimes? Assange is no less guilty than the US government for playing his part to deflect attention from the real issues in his desire to grandstand in the spotlight. That nothing has come of these revelations that Manning and Snowden brought to the attention of the American people and the entire world, is the greatest success that fascists could ever hope for, because it means that even when massive criminal wrongdoing is exposed, the people will not force change: there is zero accountability and the government can act with impunity.

    1. Re:I just have one simple question. by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 2

      I'm sure you knew and were expecting this answer: The majority of the sheeples pay attention to what the media tells them to pay attention to. And I guess the media has decided the actors are far more interesting than the actual issues brought up.

      I wish people would pay attention to the issues at hand, too, but.. I guess that requires too much independent thinking for sheeple to be bothered with.

    2. Re:I just have one simple question. by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      For all of this spectacle, all the attention paid to the actors and pawns in this charade--Assange, Manning, Snowden, Obama, the US government, Sweden, UK--what has ever come of the actual substance of these disclosures? Has no one bothered to ask who should be held accountable for the lives of those journalists shot down in Iraq? Has no one lifted a finger to ensure that the NSA does not continue to violate the US Constitution?

      Yes, things have changed. The NSA program you object to was ended by Congress. Things changed. You're the one who doesn't even grok that Manning's and Snowden's were totally different in level of classification; subject matter (foreign only vs. foreign and domestic); outcomes in terms of damage to national security; really anything that goes beyond 'released government secrets.' And frankly, criminal justice and clemency are important concepts worthy of discussion all on their own.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    3. Re:I just have one simple question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the KNOWN about program has ended. If you think that the NSA, homeland, CIA has changed one iota then I have a bridge to sell you.

    4. Re:I just have one simple question. by houghi · · Score: 1

      Why is it that, even now, people are still focused on the players and not the crimes?

      Because the majority of the people is a social and emotional being and not a rational one. That means they are more interested in people than in anything else.

      You see that in how people vote, for one. The fact that people are more interested in celebrities is another. It also explains why on one side we disagree that hitting your SO is a bad thing and you should be put in prison and on the other side find and make up excuses to still buy their records and adore the people who do this.

      If this is a good or a bad thing in the long run is another discussion. For now it has served human DNA pretty well.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:I just have one simple question. by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      Ok.... as unpopular as my comment may be? I, first of all, think there was no good justification for giving Manning the pardon and not Snowden. Should have been the other way around.

      There's really zero evidence that anything Manning leaked amounted to true whistle-blowing. Yes, some of the material might have put military tactics on display that some people took issue with or were disturbed by -- yet all of them were legal activities to engage in under the law that existed at the time they happened. Meanwhile, it did give our enemies information that wasn't supposed to be revealed to them.

      Snowden, by contrast, served to prove that Obama's administration was, in fact, continuing the illegal surveillance of American people that Bush's administration started. That's why Obama won't pardon him.... If he had actually changed Bush's policies upon entering office, he would have given Snowden a pardon with a quickness -- but it doesn't serve his narrative.

    6. Re:I just have one simple question. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Nobody's shown me that the journalist shootings were a crime. Combat zones are dangerous places, and if you hang around with people who might be classified as active hostiles you've got a chance of being shot.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    7. Re:I just have one simple question. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      So anyone who goes outside in a country under occupation - to go to work, to school, to buy food - just has it coming when a helicopter shoots them all for no reason? Did you take classes to engage in this level of depraved idiocy, or does it come naturally?

    8. Re:I just have one simple question. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, but it looked like a combat situation to the people in the helicopter. In a combat zone, show a helicopter crew something that looks like an enemy weapon capable of taking down helicopters, and they're going to shoot. If you're in the middle of a goddam war, you take that into account in your daily activities unless you're stupid and/or suicidal. Work and school become secondary to surviving the combat. War is hell.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  24. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by Xenographic · · Score: 2

    > whatever you think of Snowden, he worked with actual journalists

    So did Wikileaks previously. I guess everyone just forgot that part where they were originally working with the NYT & co.?

  25. Go Figure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Julian Assange parses words and meanings. Essentially he is going back on his word.

  26. Re:Assange is a lying narcicist by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    then != than

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  27. You're all missing the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There are no US charges or extradition orders against him, so what would he be handing himself to the US for?

    This is Julian playing opportunistic political games in a changing US political environment trying to get the admissions of truth he wants and perhaps being let off the hook by sympathetic Trump at the same time.

    Hes using this as a way to force US officials to admit there is a grand jury investigation against him and they've intended to extradite him from Sweden all along which has been denied by the US but why he has always resisted being extradited to Sweden.

    If he were to leave the Embassy, the European extradition is still in place and he would be arrested by British police and deported to Sweden.. its what happens next he wants to try and negotiate.

  28. Re:oh my what a weasel by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

    BTW he is not wanted in the US, he is wanted in SWEDEN

    Obviously you don't know all the particulars of Mr. Assange. He is wanted in Sweden for question regarding some rape accusations. He is also wanted in the US for publishing US Government secerts. Very bad. This is why he refuses to leave the embassy, because if he does, Britain will arrest him and extradite him to the USA. Sweden would probably also do the same thing after they were finished questioning him. That's the whole thing. Mr. Assange is TERRIFIED of the fact the USA has captial punishment and worries they may execute him.

    There now you and anyone else should have the short version!

  29. Re:oh my what a weasel by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

    PS: I might be incorrect about Sweden having extradition with US. I remember there being something about Mr. Assange trying to sneak to the airport and failing. Britain had (still has?) police stationed around the embassy to try to catch him attempting to sneak out. So the whole issue might be Britain wanting to arrest him on sight and extradite. That's why he can't even leave the embassy.

  30. Re:oh my what a weasel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is you who isn't clear on the particulars. He is NOT wanted in the US for anything. He's just spent all this time playing up the idea that once he's in Sweden the US might then decide to charge him, although it's difficult to imagine with what crime because there is no such crime as a foreigner publishing US government secrets. Manning, on the other hand, did commit an actual crime - although many would suggest it should not be a crime. Assange really doesn't want to face Swedish court on the allegation of rape, and he probably also enjoys being the centre of media attention.

  31. Re:One action does not define a man by Frank+Burly · · Score: 1

    The key is to wait sincerely.

  32. RT blew a chance to get an answer on this by jbn-o · · Score: 1

    Earlier today, Melinda Taylor (one of Julian Assange's lawyers) spoke to RT from The Hague. But unfortunately the interviewer stacked so many different questions on top of each other in his interview with Taylor, she could easily escape having to plainly answer whether Assange will turn himself in to the US sometime in May after Manning walks free. At one point (2m06s) the interviewer asked:

    Right, so what is the likely outcome of that going to be? What's your best guess at the moment, you are one of his lawyers, what do you think is gonna happen next? Are we gonna see him going off to America? Is there some sort of deal behind the scenes as well, you think? There has been some surmising that there may be some kind of behind-the-scenes deal in Obama's last few days to finally try to get him to go over to America. Is that—any mileage in that or not?

    RT's article about this (https://www.rt.com/on-air/374100-assanges-lawyer-melinda-taylor/) currently redirects to their news page instead of showing the article "Assange's lawyer Melinda Taylor talks to RT".

  33. Re:You saying that makes me rethink BA by Nephandus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, he WAS owed for his contributions to the war then bypassed by nepotism then accused of stealing when he actually used his own personal funds. Benedict did had genuine grievances and reason to flee his sleazy enemies. It's not hard to research either.

    --
    "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
  34. Re: Can't say as I blame him... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

    How dare you insult St Hillary you filthy misogynistic alt-right neckbeard virgin!

  35. Assange. by ledow · · Score: 2

    So not only do you expect prisoner exchanges (when the US hasn't even asked for you) on your terms, despite being a criminal in the UK for skipping bail, but when the part you demand happens (whether related or not, I'm guessing not to be honest) within a few days despite the intense complications of such an action, it has to have been immediate for you to keep your promises?

    He's an attention-seeking prat, and always will be.

    Ecuador - kick him the hell out of the door already.

  36. Re:oh my what a weasel by ledow · · Score: 2

    They can have him, once he's served time for contempt of court / skipping bail in the UK.

  37. You believed him? by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    You believed him?

    It's not as though he had it written on the side of a bus or something ....oh wait!

  38. Y'all can't see why pardoning would be critical? by daboochmeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everyone's all "he's such a weasel, yeah like we didn't see this coming" ... c'mon, you can't see in his case why it would be critical whether Manning was pardoned vs. just let out early?? C'mon, use those brains God gave you to see through your personal prejudices on the issue.

    --
    "Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh ... never mind." Dave Bucci
  39. Just attention seeking, no substance by Morris+von+Habsburg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is just typical Assange style attention seeking. He has been out of the news for a while and desperately needs people not to forget about him.

    The main reason he won’t be handed over to the US any time soon is because he is not wanted by the US. If Assange was wanted by the US there would have been an arrest warrant and an extradition request.

    The best chance for the US, if the US indeed had some interest in him, would have been while Assange was walking around freely in the UK between his extradition hearings trying to stop being extradited to Sweden. The US-UK extradition treaty is extremely one-sided in favour of the US so he could been put on a plane the same day.

    Now, considering nobody has ever seen a US arrest warrant for Assange and the US has never attempted to have him extradited it is safe to assume that is not one of his major worries.

    Right now, Assange is a fugitive of two police forces. The British justice system wants him for jumping bail, the Swedish justice system wants him for a double rape inquiry.

    Assange has always maintained he doesn’t want to go to Sweden because he worries about being extradited to the US (even though that is a very weak argument, see above). If he would now have fewer issues with going to the US, why doesn’t he just go to Sweden and face the rape inquiries if he is so confident he has done nothing wrong?

    1. Re:Just attention seeking, no substance by Alioth · · Score: 1

      The whole thing smelled of bullshit from day zero. It's much easier for the US to get someone extradited from the UK than it is for them to extradite someone from Sweden, so the whole running-to-the-embassy thing never made sense, except as a possible means to escape being tried for rape. If the US really wanted him, they'd have had the extradition process started with the UK long before Assange went to the Ecuadorian embassy.

  40. Re:You saying that makes me rethink BA by colinwb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A 20th century equivalent was Vlasov, a Soviet general captured by the Nazis, and who then changed sides (so a reverse of the German general Paulus), not particularly effectively, a major reason being distrust of him by the Nazis, a distrust that was not entirely unjustified when "at the war's end he changed sides again and aided the Prague uprising".

    "Vlasov claimed that during his ten days in hiding he affirmed his anti-bolshevism, believing Joseph Stalin was the greatest enemy of the Russian people, and there is evidence that suggests Vlasov may have changed sides in a bid to give his countrymen a better life than the one they had under Stalin. His critics ... argued that Vlasov adopted a pro-Nazi German stance in prison out of opportunism, careerism, and survival, fearing Stalinist retribution for losing his last battle and his army. In 2016 Russian historian Kirill Alexandrov in his habilitation thesis analyzed the careers of 180 Soviet generals and officers who joined the Vlasov army and concluded that most of them personally experienced atrocities committed by the NKVD during the Great Purge and previous purges in the Red Army, which made them disillusioned with the leadership of Stalin and motivated them to defect to the Nazis. Alexandrov's work was reported to the FSB by Russian nationalists as 'inciting hatred' but his university, regardless of the political pressure, voted in favor of its scientific value."

  41. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by geekmux · · Score: 1

    This is wrong. You are also an idiot.

    Snowden was a sysadmin you tool he had legitimate access to all of the stuff he released because the NSA/CIA gave it to him...

    Wrong.

    How ironic you want to call others idiots when you clearly fail to understand how Sensitive Information is in fact Compartmentalized (also known what the letters "SCI" stand for, labeling Snowdens security clearance).

    He did work with others to extract classified information. He had to, because he did not have legitimate access to everything. Whether or not he held root is also irrelevant when need to know is a factor defining legitimate access as well. Many Sysadmins have rights to read the CxO's email. Access alone doesn't magically make that activity legitimate. Doubly so when it comes to information controlled under SCI.

    Regarding the definition of whistle blower, that is another matter entirely since it would appear the protections surrounding whistle blowers have changed over time, much like the definition of terrorist.

  42. Is GTMO closed? by zedaroca · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Its incredible the double standard around here.

    On one hand we have a man with 10 year perfect record for truth telling -> weasel, liar, attention whore because he won't surrender for the torture country;
    On the other hand we have the mass murderer, who kept people who lied to congress in control of the intelligence, that was caught lying to help his candidate, and that didn't stop the human right abuses he promised to -> nobody is criticizing him.

    I really hope he does not keep up with this "promise". Who will enable the next Manning? Who will save the next Snowden? The Guardian? WP? Only Wikileaks go the extra length to protect whistleblowers and to publish the truth in adversity. We need Assange free and working more than we need him keeping up with his PR stunts.

    1. Re:Is GTMO closed? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On one hand we have a man with 10 year perfect record for truth

      Huh? Where?

      I really hope he does not keep up with this "promise". Who will enable the next Manning? Who will save the next Snowden? The Guardian? WP? Only Wikileaks go the extra length to protect whistleblowers and to publish the truth in adversity.

      If Wikileaks is one man (of evidentally low integrity) then your system is already broken and you may as well start looking for a replacement now.

    2. Re:Is GTMO closed? by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      On one hand we have a man with 10 year perfect record for truth telling

      Two points here:

      1. I know of no human being on the face of this earth this sentence describes.
      2. You can only assert this in a public figure's case if you personally grant yourself the right to define for the entire world what "truth" is. This isn't the set of Fox News; you don't get to do that.

      If you are worried about trying to find some kind of official corporate "truth" in the allegations against him, that's exactly what we humans created courts for. If you don't trust the courts in this particular case, that's your prerogative. But you don't get to substitute yourself for them.

    3. Re:Is GTMO closed? by luther349 · · Score: 1

      you ever think the usa does not want him even the swedes drooped the charges so relly nobody wants him. but he thinks ninja death squads are waiting..

    4. Re:Is GTMO closed? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Assange is very far from a "perfect record for truth telling".

      Then you'll have no problem listing some examples of fraudulent documents released through Wikileaks, right?

      And the only country anyone has asked him to surrender for is Sweden. Is that "the torture country" in your book?

      Are you ignorant of the fact that Sweden was a willing tool of Bush's extraordinary kidnapping program, handing people over to United States custody that were promptly tortured?

    5. Re:Is GTMO closed? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Do you not recall the furore around here over the rape accusations?

      Do you not recall that Sweden has refused to interview Assange in the embassy, or promise not to extradite him to the US if he returned to Sweden? Maybe Assange would have found a reason to back out of those promises as well - but the fact that Sweden hasn't called his bluff means the rape accusations are a joke.

      Where the fuck do they find you people? It's assholes like you that make me wonder if humanity as a whole is really that self-deluded, full of shit-stain trolls, or blah blah blah blah blah

      Obama's own Vice President went from threatening Bush with impeachment if he attacked Iran without going through Congress, then was part of an administration that ignored Congress for months as he waged war on Libya. If that's not enough, remember how Democrats were furious over the Patriot Act - but DGAF when Obama signed an NDAA allowing the military to throw you in prison without trial?

  43. I lost faith in Assange by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    when he published a bunch of leaks w/o taking any of the irrelevant personal data out of it. Most for leaks that hurt the Democrats. At that point he was obviously just lashing out. That said, he was pretty obviously framed for screwing with the ruling class. Which is legitimately terrifying. The Chelsea Manning clemency tells me Obama is not entirely unsympathetic to his cause. The fact that Obama couldn't accomplish anything meaningful for that cause tells me we've got a long way to go.

    That's the trouble. This is a complex, adult situation. There's no simple answer because there's too much in play.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  44. There were a ton of financial disclosures by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    involving tax dodging by European economic elites (they're 1%ers). Europe actually enforces these sort of things and so those elites had to pay back a lot of money. Basically, Assange's first couple of leaks cost a lot of very wealthy people a lot of money.

    On a side note, the lesson here isn't that government can act with impunity. It's that the rich can. Government is a tool. We've been so afraid of it that we've chosen to leave that tool in the hands of the rich least we hurt ourselves with it. This is the result.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  45. Very dissapointing. by sabbede · · Score: 1

    He should say that he'll come when she's been released. And do it.

    1. Re:Very dissapointing. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Yup, and it's apparent now that probably the only reason he ever said what he did in the first place was because at the time, he likely didn't think it would actually happen.

      Nowhere in his original comment did the word "immediately" appear. Although the Justice Department claims that Assange's comments were not the basis for her sentence being commuted, the conditions that Assange originally stated were nonetheless fulfilled completely by Obama's decision to do this, and Assange is now backpedaling and trying to make it look like he might have meant something other than the words that he actually originally said.

      And for what it's worth, her sentence *WAS* commuted 'immediately'. Obama decided it, and it's now it's happened. Done and done. It's my understanding that the 120-day waiting period until her actual release is standard for giving the person opportunity to relocate successfully instead of just pushing someone out to the curb from prison and them not having anywhere to go or anything to do.

      Assange is a liar. Full stop.

    2. Re:Very dissapointing. by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Well, now that he has said he is coming when she gets released, I guess the topic is moot.

  46. Maybe the Ecuador embassy is too good by Ecuador · · Score: 1

    Maybe the Ecuador embassy is too good to give up. Have you thought about that? I have no way of knowing of course, just a thought.

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  47. Re:What did we expect really? by shilly · · Score: 1

    Spot on.

  48. Re:Y'all can't see why pardoning would be critical by jittles · · Score: 3, Informative

    Everyone's all "he's such a weasel, yeah like we didn't see this coming" ... c'mon, you can't see in his case why it would be critical whether Manning was pardoned vs. just let out early?? C'mon, use those brains God gave you to see through your personal prejudices on the issue.

    You could also READ what Assange said and see that he asked for "clemency" which does NOT mean a pardon. It can include a pardon, but it is not limited to a pardon. So who is failing to use the brains that God gave them? What we see here is Assange moving the goalpost and it suggests that even if Manning had received a pardon Assange would have still made an excuse as to why he couldn't turn himself over to Swedish (and not US) authorities.

  49. Fine. by fred6666 · · Score: 1

    As long as he hand himself over in May when Manning is released.

  50. Re:Y'all can't see why pardoning would be critical by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

    you can't see in his case why it would be critical whether Manning was pardoned

    I know you know what that word means, but did you know Assange never used it?

    My personal prejudice is that Assange is every bit the man he has just proven to be. He demanded Clemency, Manning got Clemency, and his criticism is well deserved.

  51. Re: Commutation != Pardon by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 1

    Well, it's close enough to call him a liar and a fraud and a KGB collaborator and whatever else. So, clearly what the US government ordered.

    Now let's see if this is enough to flush Assange out where charges of Swedish rape weren't. My money is on "not".

  52. the ultimate algorithm by epine · · Score: 1

    "Douchebag weasel" is a frame grab appropriate to people who decided on the school playground how to decide matters, and haven't updated their model since.

    How the Human Brain Decides What Is Important and What's Not

    The ultimate algorithm (almost an oracle):

    Douchebag / not douchebag.

    QED.

  53. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    Snowden swore an oath to uphold the constitution when he took his job at NSA/CIA, not an oath to protect the illegal activities of the agencies he worked for

    Well, technically he also swore an oath to not divulge classified material when he was granted the security clearance that gave him access to that information.

  54. Not Pardon, "Clemency" by Toad-san · · Score: 1

    Assange never demanded a pardon for Manning. This is exactly what he said:

    "If Obama grants Manning clemency, Assange will agree to US prison in exchange -- despite its clear unlawfulness https://t.co/MZU30S3Eia"

    He's breaking the agreement: his statement is a lie.

  55. Re:What? by Maritz · · Score: 1

    Where are you getting "pardon" from? Go ahead and link it, thanks.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  56. Re:What Clinton did by quantaman · · Score: 2

    Lying under oath to Congress IS illegal, and she did it.

    So did Trump's nominee for Secretary of State.

    I won't bother going through the rest of your items, but almost every single one is either false or something that's been done by high profile member of the incoming administration.

    If you want to throw Clinton in jail you're going to run into some serious issues of double standards.

    --
    I stole this Sig
  57. Re:You saying that makes me rethink BA by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

    Actually, he WAS owed for his contributions to the war then bypassed by nepotism then accused of stealing when he actually used his own personal funds.

    You mean where he *claimed* to be owed more than he actually spent. There's no doubt that he spent some of his own money in the Quebec campaign, but he failed to document just how much that was (or lost the documentation.....doesn't matter, he didn't have it). If I go to my boss asking for reimbursement for something without any receipts or actual proof that the money was spent, I wouldn't expect him to just pay it.

    Benedict did had genuine grievances and reason to flee his sleazy enemies. It's not hard to research either

    In his mind, "genuine" just meant "I'm not being paid what I want". I don't expect the average Revolutionary War combat soldier to be too sympathetic a man who was essentially an 18th century 1%'er with that type of attitude.

    "Money is this man's God, and to get enough of it he would sacrifice his country"
    -- John Brown, Army Officer, said before Arnold defected.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
  58. Re:Stop calling Snowden a whistleblower by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

    I was especially disgusted when they claimed Snowden was trying to court favor with Obama to get a pardon, and then stated that they "saved Snowden's ass":
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/06/...

    --
    If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
  59. Re:liar... no. by nbritton · · Score: 1

    Commutation is not at all the same as a pardon, so it's perfectly understandable Julian would not turn himself in.

  60. What. An. Asshole. by chaboud · · Score: 1

    Like many, I championed his cause and firmly stated that he was being unfairly politically persecuted. But the reality is that he's just a douchebag that found a cause to stand atop and be the king of. It's just another power-play. He's as principled as a toaster oven.

  61. Re:Pathologies by Cederic · · Score: 1

    this is the opposite of what every study ever conducted has found

    No. http://journals.plos.org/ploso... found that suicide rates increase dramatically a few years after surgery, and reaches a level substantially higher than the general population. Or to use their own words:

    Conclusions
    Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population.

    There's evidence that this is nonetheless significantly lower than suicide rates amongst pre-op transexuals but sure as shit doesn't suggest that surgery left everybody in a happy place.

  62. Trump's playbook by mmdurrant · · Score: 1

    Make promise (vague or via a contract), insist terms weren't met, laugh as everyone who wants to hold you accountable is powerless to do so.
    Assange and Trump seem to have similar goals - maintain the cult of personality.

    --
    I see my shadow changing, stretching up and over me...
  63. "Turn himself in" - to who exactly? by rvandenbrink · · Score: 1

    He isn't charged with anything or wanted by anyone in the US. While he's not a "most favorite person" in the US, he's not wanted for anything there, so turning himself in is pretty much moot? He *is* wanted in Sweden on rape charges though. If he offered to turn himself in to Swedish authorities maybe we'd all take this as more than cheap theater?

  64. Re:What Clinton did by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    So did Trump's nominee for Secretary of State.

    Irrelevant.

    or something that's been done by high profile member of the incoming administration.

    See above.

    GOP shenanigans do not excuse Democratic shenanigans, and vice versa. Case in point, you probably didn't give Trump a pass for being a sexually harassing womanizer during the election last year, because Bill Clinton did it first.

  65. Re:What Clinton did by quantaman · · Score: 1

    So did Trump's nominee for Secretary of State.

    Irrelevant.

    We'll I'll admit there's one big difference.

    When Trump's nominee said something that was untrue to congress he almost certainly knew it was untrue.

    When Clinton did the same she probably thought she was telling the truth.

    or something that's been done by high profile member of the incoming administration.

    See above.

    GOP shenanigans do not excuse Democratic shenanigans, and vice versa. Case in point, you probably didn't give Trump a pass for being a sexually harassing womanizer during the election last year, because Bill Clinton did it first.

    Fine, I'll go through point-by-point:

    She took bribes from Russia for selling them US uranium.

    False.

    She took $600 million in bribes for directing State Department mandates.

    False.

    She failed to follow government guidelines for record retention.

    True, but very common.

    She stored classified information on unsecure servers.

    True, but also very common.

    She had a non-cleared house cleaner go into her secure room and get secure faxes for her.

    True, but again I suspect it isn't unprecedented.

    She failed to turn over all classified information she had after finishing her term.

    She failed to report mishandling of classified information.

    That only refers to information you know you have, she didn't realized classified info was on the server.

    Her classified information ended up on Anthony Weiner's laptop.

    Unknown... and a really confused statement which actually reveals a bunch of misconceptions about the whole scandal.

    Hillary Clinton did not use Anthony Weiner's laptop, her aid Huma Abedin did, likely with her official State Dept email address.

    IF there was classified information on the laptop, it's because it was sent to Huma's official email, probably by another person who wasn't Clinton, and this other not-Clinton was probably using an official government email address.

    And this scenario, where two government employees sent each other emails containing classified information using their official government email addresses, is exactly the same thing Clinton is accused of. The fact that Clinton's email address was on a private server is irrelevant.

    The reason why the GOP focused so much on the private email server is because it you just focus on the actual crime, sending classified information over unclassified channels, they'd look ridiculous when it became clear that a huge portion of high level government employees were guilty of the same crime.

    --
    I stole this Sig
  66. A commutation, not a pardon by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    If Assange's promise was predicated on Manning being pardoned, he need do nothing to keep that promise.

    A commutation is not a pardon. The pardon hasn't happened. Not yet, anyway.

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
  67. Re:What Clinton did by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    When Clinton did the same she probably thought she was telling the truth.

    So, the she's-an-incompetent-moron defense used for the "smartest person in the room". Sounds like Catholic hospitals who suddenly start arguing that a fetus isn't a person the second they are sued for a preventable miscarriage.

    She took bribes from Russia for selling them US uranium.

    False

    I trust you're calling bullshit when Democrats talk about Trump's business ties to Russia then, yes?

    She failed to follow government guidelines for record retention.

    True, but very common.

    Very much horseshit, to be technical. She is the only SoS to use a private email server exclusively. And starting a mere two years after she publicly blasted the Bush Administration for their private servers. She also deleted tens of thousands of emails with the same authorization she had in setting up her server (none) which would have had her serving a few decades in prison for obstruction of justice, if her name was Hillary Smith.

    That only refers to information you know you have, she didn't realized classified info was on the server.

    Pure sophistry. Hillary knew full well that the information she was dealing in was born classified. Think about it for two seconds: if the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan sends an email about the state of nuclear tensions between that country and India, does it have to be marked classified before it is treated as such? You might not know the answer, but Hillary did as an Original Classification Authority, a high-level official who was given extensive training and responsibility over classified materials.

    Hillary Clinton did not use Anthony Weiner's laptop, her aid Huma Abedin did, likely with her official State Dept email address.

    Her agency, her responsibility. Ask any military base commander that's been sacked after some grunt screws something up with security or nuclear weapons.

    The reason why the GOP focused so much on the private email server is because it was a legit Clinton scandal, one they didn't have to invent

    FTFY. Hillary Clinton ran her own unsecured, unauthorized server and deliberately deleted evidence before an investigation. Other people have been sent to prison for far less - just ask the Navy man serving time for taking a few selfies on an unsecured, unauthorized cell phone.

  68. Re:What Clinton did by quantaman · · Score: 1

    She took bribes from Russia for selling them US uranium.

    False

    I trust you're calling bullshit when Democrats talk about Trump's business ties to Russia then, yes?

    Is someone said they knew for certain he had ties to Russia I'd call BS.

    But probable ties? Probably. And he could easily disprove business ties by releasing his taxes.

    She failed to follow government guidelines for record retention.

    True, but very common.

    Very much horseshit, to be technical. She is the only SoS to use a private email server exclusively. And starting a mere two years after she publicly blasted the Bush Administration for their private servers.

    Yeah, she was hypocritical on that count. Also not unprecedented in a politician.

    She also deleted tens of thousands of emails with the same authorization she had in setting up her server (none) which would have had her serving a few decades in prison for obstruction of justice, if her name was Hillary Smith.

    Actually she's in the clear there. The law explicitly gives the official the right to identify official correspondence in their personal records, deliver it for retention, and then delete the rest. It was the responsibility of the law firm to properly sort the emails.

    That only refers to information you know you have, she didn't realized classified info was on the server.

    Pure sophistry. Hillary knew full well that the information she was dealing in was born classified. Think about it for two seconds: if the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan sends an email about the state of nuclear tensions between that country and India, does it have to be marked classified before it is treated as such?

    So do you want to imprison the ambassador then?

    Other people have been sent to prison for far less - just ask the Navy man serving time for taking a few selfies on an unsecured, unauthorized cell phone.

    You mean the guy who was sneaking around the sub in off-hours to take photos of things he knew were classified, possibly to sell to a foreign government?

    What about the guy who sent classified information with foreign governments without authorization? I don't think he got punished... in fact I think he just got a new job.

    --
    I stole this Sig