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US Visitors May Have to Hand Over Social Media Passwords: DHS (nbcnews.com)

People who want to visit the United States could be asked to hand over their social-media passwords to officials as part of enhanced security checks, the country's top domestic security chief said. From a report on NBC: Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly told Congress on Tuesday the measure was one of several being considered to vet refugees and visa applicants from seven Muslim-majority countries. "We want to get on their social media, with passwords: What do you do, what do you say?" he told the House Homeland Security Committee. "If they don't want to cooperate then you don't come in."

652 comments

  1. Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At least with FB it's against the TOS, and if you sign on from an unfamiliar IP, it would try other challenges to validate your identity.

    1. Re:Against TOS by dmomo · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's against the TOS for the user to let another access their account via the password. I didn't see anything in there about being on the receiving end. I would say it's implied, but it's not explicit. So security would be effectively forcing the user to violate the agreement with Facebook. Not sure how that plays out legally, but I'm assuming Facebook has every right to terminate their account for complying with the security check.

      Here's the clause:

      "You will not share your password (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.
      You will not transfer your account (including any Page or application you administer) to anyone without first getting our written permission."

    2. Re:Against TOS by sg_oneill · · Score: 2

      Yep. I could hand over my password. But they'll have a hell of a time getting past the SSO codes (Unless the NSA has cracked that system somehow)

      But I'm going to give the US a pass over the next 4 years. I have nothing to hide, but on a matter of principles I wouldnt give my own govt my passwords, and I sure as hell wouldnt give a foreign govt them.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    3. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No terrorist could possibly fake a social media profile. Or have two or 100. And it's impossible that an innocent person could just not have a social media profile.

    4. Re:Against TOS by unixisc · · Score: 2

      For FB, why do they need a password? If they want to check out Mohammed Islam's account, they can just visit his home page and see what he has written. Or even ask to befriend him temporarily so that they can see his private messages as well, and unfriend them once the background check is over.

    5. Re:Against TOS by Kagato · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because it's against the TOS, it's against the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. CBP is asking people to commit a felony. The United States Court of Appeals held just last year that sharing password and allowing access contrary to the TOS is a violation. There are people in PRISON right now for commit this crime. I would not recommend doing it and Facebook should make a statement that what DHS is proposing is against the law.

      If DHS wants to do this they need to ask congress to add an exemption to the CFAA.

    6. Re:Against TOS by networkBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's also against the 4th amendment:
      "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."
      I would argue that an on-line account is an effect of a person (actually in both definitions of the word) and the constitution does not exclude non citizens.

      Just disgraceful what my country has done to it's charter document.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    7. Re:Against TOS by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Your latter point is right on. But one implication of this - if a person claims that he doesn't have a social media profile, and later on, it turns out that at the time of questioning, he actually did, that would be a reason to scrutinize him further. Of course, if he created one after coming to the US, it would be another story. But the main point is to make sure that anyone w/ a social media profile is looked at, so that you wouldn't have more Tasfeen Maliks.

      I recently opened a new facebook profile w/ a fake name (Facebook disallowed certain names), and running it that way. In Twitter, it was even easier, since they don't seem to insist that one uses his/her real name while posting.

    8. Re:Against TOS by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

      At the border, any and all "searches and seizures" are considered "reasonable" for purposes of the Fourth Amendment. See Border search exception.

    9. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The really fun part is when you realize the CFAA effectively makes TOS violations a federal crime, so this new rule would basically force visitors to break the law to enter the country.

    10. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least with FB it's against the TOS, and if you sign on from an unfamiliar IP, it would try other challenges to validate your identity.

      I'm sure the US Border agents (and by extension, the POTUS) would argue that they have more than enough authority to demand said credentials because 'national security!'

      The endgame would either be Facebook receiving daily fines or court injunctions to comply; or the NSA hacking into Facebook and handing TSA the information they seek by order of the President. I wouldn't put it past Trump.

    11. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I agree. This is very simple and very great. Bigly! If you won't show your facebook profile then you have something to hide (why wouldn't you if you didn't?). If you have something to hide you are guilty. Seems like good security and can't be abused at all. Finally, we're back to common sense small government!

    12. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Ah! So you ADMIT they are all felons! Trump was right!

    13. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would advise them not to come here.

      No, not because I want to see less Muslims here, but because DHS could just as easily turnaround and say that complying with their request is committing a felony and therefore they (DHS) can arrest them on that charge alone. Forget terrorism charges, that would be 100% inline with law applied to American citizens. I'd imagine if they really wanted to they'd use it as justification for holding any "undesirables" while coming up with more to throw at them.

    14. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's people in prison for sharing their social media account?

      "Land of the free", my ass. It's just a slogan like "Do not be evil".

    15. Re:Against TOS by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      But I'm going to give the US a pass over the next 4 years.

      What makes you think it will get any better after that?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    16. Re:Against TOS by Kagato · · Score: 1

      The law doesn't make an exemption for social media. Facebook is a multi billion dollar company and it's TOS is very clear.

    17. Re:Against TOS by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1, Insightful

      TOS has about as much legal strength as a wet paper bag. TOS is a company saying "this is what we want, if you don't do what we want we are taking our toys and you can't play with them anymore". TOS are often in violation of laws, and guess which one wins out in court.

      Laws and federal government action is an armed man putting a gun in your face and saying: "do this or else." All government action is action by force, just consider the final consequence of violating any law and ignoring the consequence of that violation. You will eventually have armed men coming after you to incarcerate you. If you ignore them and resist, you may very well get shot.

      In order to receive the massive privilege of entering the US (and it is a privilege), potential visitors need to sacrifice their privacy, so we can know who they are. This is not new or news, it has been this way for decades, but with the advent of FB, Twitter and other social media, the vetting process needs to catch up with technology.

      Getting a visa for the US is like someone asking to come live in your house. You would want to get to know that person, do a criminal background check on them etc. You would want to know, for example, if they belonged to the ISIS or some other radical group. It is the same with immigration to the US, we don't want certain radicals coming into our collective house, especially the ones who want to kill the infidel and hurt the great satan...

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    18. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's unAmerican. Colonists didn't like America as it was and changed it by bloody force.

    19. Re:Against TOS by johanw · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just make a fake account on FB and Twitter and hand over those details. Follow and like Trump on both accounts and you're done.

    20. Re:Against TOS by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Exactly this Tepples, I was just coming here to post that...

      The outright ignorance of the far left on almost every topic these days, combined with their continuous manufactured out of proportion outrage is honestly ridiculous.

      NetworkBoy, you may want to educate yourself and/or get out of your echo chamber before posting on a topic like border searchers and visa vetting, which you apparently know nothing about.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    21. Re:Against TOS by tsqr · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because it's against the TOS, it's against the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

      18 U.S. Code 103018 U.S. Code 1030(f): This section does not prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, or intelligence activity of a law enforcement agency of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State, or of an intelligence agency of the United States.

    22. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      the far left

      Apart from your generally valid statement on outright ignorance, the target group you selected above is laughable in its absurdity.

      There is no "far left" with any voice to speak of in the US.

      There is - at most - something which could be called moderate center, but that's a tiny minority. The vast majority of all politics in the US, as viewed from a global perspective, is in the spectrum from right-wing, via very right-wing to ludicrously right-wing.

      I would say that the outright ignorance of almost all loud-mouth politically opinionated mouth-breathers in the US is ridiculous. That goes for D as well as R sympathizers in equal measure.

      Your lack of perspective should be cause for concern on your behalf.

    23. Re:Against TOS by s122604 · · Score: 1

      TOS's, like Laws, are just a god-damned peace of paper

    24. Re:Against TOS by retchdog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      this wouldn't be a search; it would be a compulsion to divulge information, which would then be used to assist in searching for something which isn't at the border.

      additionally, like most universal claims, what you're saying is obviously false if read literally. for example, i don't think the courts would find it reasonable to conduct a mass cavity search in the lobby of an airport, on all debarking passengers from Syria (or wherever).

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    25. Re:Against TOS by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I doubt they will bother logging in, they will just use their special app to check if your account is on a watchlist and do a basic keyword scan of public posts.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:Against TOS by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      what if it's ruled 'not lawful'?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    27. Re: Against TOS by NatasRevol · · Score: 5, Informative

      Georgetown Law School says you don't know what you're talking about.

      http://scholarship.law.georget...

      The fact that the Framers chose to limit to citizens only the rights to vote and to run for federal office is one indication that they did not intend other constitutional rights to be so limited.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    28. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They won't miss you either.

    29. Re:Against TOS by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      This.

      Also, I started up my Tor browser, hit one of my 17 Facebook accounts, and it immediately shut me down.

      I had to approach that account from a familiar route and show false ID.

      --

      I recommend pseudonymous accounts populated with some cat videos.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    30. Re: Against TOS by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

      No.

      That's not how it works.

      It's OK that you're not an historian.

      Go back to Angry Birds.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    31. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So security would be effectively forcing the user to violate the agreement with Facebook. Not sure how that plays out legally

      Dude. These are foreigners we are talking about. Not human beings. Who cares?

      Disclosure: I'm not from the US.

    32. Re:Against TOS by tsqr · · Score: 1

      what if it's ruled 'not lawful'?

      I assume you mean if it's ruled 'not lawful' by a Federal court. In that case, the practice would have to be halted. If it was not halted, then the person refusing to halt it would be legally liable. Doubtful that a court ruling the practice unlawful would mean retroactive liability; that would be ex post facto.

    33. Re:Against TOS by Kjella · · Score: 2

      It's against the TOS for the user to let another access their account via the password. I didn't see anything in there about being on the receiving end. I would say it's implied, but it's not explicit. So security would be effectively forcing the user to violate the agreement with Facebook. Not sure how that plays out legally, but I'm assuming Facebook has every right to terminate their account for complying with the security check.

      Regarding the receiving end it's really quite easy, Facebook has authorized you to use their service and the password is just your authorization token. If anyone else is using your token to access their service they should be hit with some felony "unlawful access to computer resources" hacking charges, regardless if they got the token by accident, theft, blackmail or given voluntarily. Same as if I give you a key to water my plants, no matter who else ends up with the key they don't have my permission, even if you can physically delegate the key you can't legally delegate my permission.

      As for the terms of service the recipient is not a party to the contract, so it can't regulate this in any way. It can only regulate the relationship between you and Facebook, if you hand over the password they have cause to terminate your account. That can of course leave the user caught between a rock and a hard place, either they "voluntarily" hand over the password to US customs or they're refused entry into the US. But neither contract nor criminal law absolves you of any duties just because complying is difficult.

      Personally I'd probably resist enough that I could claim it was under duress and hope Facebook decides to press charges. Because as a private individual you don't really have much leverage here, the US is free to refuse entry to anyone but its own citizens so they can set any conditions they want. If they want to require the rubber glove treatment it's either bend over and spread'em or stay home. The only leverage you have is if they break the constitution - unlikely, as the 4th amendment doesn't apply at the border - or the rules violate some other US laws.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    34. Re: Against TOS by Archtech · · Score: 2

      Some of us aren't in America and don't want to go there. (Offers in excess of $1 million might be seriously considered - or they might not). Some of us also don't have social media accounts, so we have time to do more important and interesting things.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    35. Re:Against TOS by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

      No.

      It's an agreement, and binding only between the issuing entity and the willing participant.

      If I give my password to someone else and Facebook finds about it, all they can do is block access.

      Facebook is free, offers no warranties, guarantees, and provides for indemnification.

      --

      "The only right a Facebook member has is to leave." © 2017 CaptainDork

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    36. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, thank you.

    37. Re:Against TOS by Archtech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The word "free" (as in "Land of the Free") is dangerously undefined. Free from what? Free to do what? Not free to do what? The answers to the second and third questions would run to thousands of pages.

      To assert that one country is "free" while another is "not free" is ridiculous. It doesn't even make much sense to say that one country is "freer" than another. So in Country A you are allowed to do X but forbidden to do Y; whereas in Country B it is the other way round. Presumably which country you prefer is a function of whether you prefer X to Y.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    38. Re: Against TOS by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes, the old appeal to authority.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    39. Re:Against TOS by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Well, given that the Customs and Border Patrol were doing exactly that - enforcing after halt ordered by Federal Court, when will they be held liable?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    40. Re:Against TOS by Kagato · · Score: 1

      That indemnifies a government agent/agency. So the CBP officer cannot be tried as an accessory. But you're still F'd.

    41. Re:Against TOS by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      You can see my Profile and Cover photos, then you're through.

      I set it that way.

      However, the

      Or even ask to befriend him temporarily ...

      suggestion would work.

      But there's a catch:

      The intruding Facebook account had better be a clean one and Facebook TOS allows for only one account to a real person.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    42. Re:Against TOS by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      ... public posts.

      That should only be the "Public by requirement," Profile and Cover photos.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    43. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I thought it was called the Bill of RIghts. Did they change it to the Bill of Rules when I wasn't looking?

    44. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Umm... You realize you are posting on a social media platform, using a social media account, right?

    45. Re: Against TOS by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure the bill of rights doesn't say 'love it or leave it' where 'it' is the crazy current administration policy.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    46. Re:Against TOS by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure the TSA counts as a "lawfully authorized investigative, protective, or intelligence activity of a law enforcement agency of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State, or of an intelligence agency of the United States."

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    47. Re:Against TOS by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, if the TOS are governed by contract law, then such a term is unenforceable in this scenario. The "Public Policy" doctrine says you can't contractually forbid someone from doing a thing that public policy says should be allowed (e.g. joining a union) or even mandated (e.g., cooperating with a criminal investigation).

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    48. Re:Against TOS by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I think we're forgetting why the four fathers and three mothers came to this country.

      It was because the British were spying on their internet usage and banning facesitting videos. They came to this country to avoid government asking for their facebook passwords, and so that they could go to any internet site they liked without the FBI spying on them.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    49. Re: Against TOS by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Informative

      Umm... You realize you are posting on a social media platform, using a social media account, right?

      There's nothing social about Slashdot.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    50. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, cause a government agency compelling people to commit a crime, and then charging them for it, isn't entrapment.

      Grow a brain, moran.

    51. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      First of all, the border search exception is NOT absolute and has never been claimed to be absolute.

      Secondly, the whole point of GP is that an absolute border search exception, or even the border search exception we "have", would be in direct conflict with the Fourth Amendment. A judge, or even a bunch of judges, deciding to "consider" something reasonable does not make it reasonable.

    52. Re:Against TOS by outlander · · Score: 2

      Umm, this far leftist is just as outraged as you are by this.

      The 100-mile constitution-free zone at borders is Not Right.

      --
      "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
    53. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is something I see a lot, and frankly, it's ludicrous. From a globalperspective, as opposed to a (primarily Western) European one, the US is pretty centrist, leaning a bit right. From a Western European perspective, there's a small left (mostly in academia, as it's about 2-3 standard deviations left of the US average), but Western Europe is certainly not the global norm. Your own perspective is much narrower than you think.

      Even what I said above is an over-simplification; there is certainly a globally far left in the US on social issues. The distribution is certainly much wider on a lot of social issues in the US than there is in, say, Germany, but there definitely is a far social left in the US. Economically, the spread is smaller and shifted rightward, sure.

    54. Re: Against TOS by Rakarra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not an appeal to authority, it's an appeal to reality.
      The US has long talked a good talk of championing personal freedoms, but usually does a bad job of actually respecting them. In just about every stage of our nation's history, there has been some threatening group of the day who has had its freedoms sharply curtailed, where the response has been more "meh," or at least "maybe this isn't great, but we're under attack or under threat."

    55. Re: Against TOS by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Umm... You realize you are posting on a social media platform, using a social media account, right?

      There's nothing social about Slashdot.

      Slashdot IS the discussion section, it's pretty much purely social. The articles and summaries are just window dressing, often ignored.

    56. Re: Against TOS by BostonPilot · · Score: 1

      Can you say FBI?

    57. Re: Against TOS by Tanktalus · · Score: 2

      Sure, but I have no idea what my slashdot password is. Sorry. When Firefox forgets my password, I'll lose my account.

    58. Re:Against TOS by tsqr · · Score: 1

      You're not sure that TSA is a lawfully authorized protective agency of the United States? Here, maybe this will help: TSA was created by the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, passed br Congress and signed into law on November 19, 2001.

    59. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News flash: Freedom is for Americans, not people trying to enter America.

    60. Re:Against TOS by Kagato · · Score: 1

      You're not searching my person. You're searching Facebook. It's not my account. It's Facebook's property located inside the United States.

    61. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus you fucking people are morons. The fucking constitution doesnt apply to non-American citizens trying to enter the country. You have to buy into the club to have the card carrying rights of its members.

    62. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why you are a laughingstock. They are not constitution-free. Example, they can't stuff troops into your home. You proved his point quite handily.

    63. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry homie. An essay is opinion, not court precident.

    64. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's not what the inscription on the Statue of Liberty says.

      "Give me your tired, your poor,
      Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus

    65. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law doesn't make an exemption for social media. Facebook is a multi billion dollar company and it's TOS is very clear.

      You really think F-Books TOS override the government?

      That's cute.

    66. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > That's not what the inscription on the Statue of Liberty says.

      It isn't what my doormat says either, because both have the same legal standing. None.

    67. Re: Against TOS by bobmajdakjr · · Score: 1

      i bet most of the passwords cant even be typed on american keyboards, lol.

    68. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I want to check your facebook to make sure you're not cheating on me!"

      "Sorry babe... it's against the TOS."

    69. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just make a fake account on FB and Twitter and hand over those details. Follow and like Trump on both accounts and you're done.

      This, people. So much this. It's like a gate out in the middle of an open field. Just take a step to the right or left and proceed as intended.

    70. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. And one of those named activities trumps the TOS anyway - it's only a contract and has to bow to superior law. (term used deliberately)

    71. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the freedom to get shot for DWB.

    72. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The statue of liberty was gifted to the US by the French. And believe it or not, things written on statues do not automatically carry the weight of law, or reflect the will of the people. There is a statue commemorating soldiers who fought for the south in DC, doesn't mean we believe slavery should still be legal.

    73. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the kind of ridiculous conversation that happens when people talk about whether or not the laws-as-written (or re-written by courts) apply to a situation, instead of people talking about what they want the law to be.

      Can anyone think of a situation where a border agent would ask for someone's Slashdot password, or even just their username (to merely read what they've written, instead of impersonating them), and it might be useful? Forget everything you know about the technical legal jargon of "reasonable," and tell me from your perspective as a layman, how it's reasonable.

      There isn't even the pretense that we're somehow looking for contraband here. Nobody's reddit password is being forced out of them because it somehow causes a pound of heroin to de-cloak in their luggage. This is about writings and opinions.

      It's 1789 and you are still stinging with resentment about what those fucking Brits did. Never again. You're going to write a new uber-law that forces a limitation on the powers of your new government.

      And you're imagining a situation: the tyrant's red-coated thugs are looking for the next Thomas Paine "Common Sense" trouble-maker. Who is scribbling a rough draft of the next piece of subversive literature? Some people are colony-born, so they're more suspicious by nature, but dangerous ideas might be coming from continental Europe too (where so many of the King's political adversaries dwell). The thugs want to read everyone's personal journals, so they can treat rabble rousers and loyal subjects differently from one another.

      Does your new uber-law, intended to prevent the thugs' earlier abuses, make a distinction between siezing the personal journals of colony residents vs old world visitors? Or might you want to phrase it more broadly, perhaps something like "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause..."?

      Never again, my 1789 friend. You can't support this new border policy without giving a big Fuck You to the framers' very intents. If you disagree with the framers, cool. Own it. But I agree with them, so a Common Sense interpretation of the 4th amendment still has my support. Total support, you limey bastard.

    74. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually their request would be lawful but you, not being " of a law enforcement agency of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State, or of an intelligence agency of the United States" would not be authorized to break the TOS. So, yes, you go to prison while the DHS folks get your password.

    75. Re: Against TOS by mmell · · Score: 1
      His mistake was attempting to apply an ethical argument to a legal situation. Unfortunately while unethical, these are our laws. We shouldn't ignore them or complain about them, we should change them.

      Since our current POTUS doesn't appear to have or care about ethics, this would seem unlikely to happen in the near future.

    76. Re:Against TOS by s122604 · · Score: 1

      Just an FYI: My comment was an allusion to a famous quotation in recent US political history... Not a lawyerly critique of the fundamental nature of a TOS

    77. Re:Against TOS by MooseTick · · Score: 0

      Before you pass through Customs you aren't on American soil. Therefore you are not bound by US law. Therefore, you haven't broken any US law.

    78. Re:Against TOS by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      I was (mostly) joking, given how generally incompetant the TSA is (they aren't law enforcement though BTW, and have no power to actually arrest or detain at all which is why they have to call other police over when they do.

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    79. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Americans aren't very worldly. They probably aren't even aware that there's several different languages in the tiny place outside their vast country which spans most of the planet.

    80. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The exception is to do with searching containers carried by the traveler. Social media is not carried on the body. The best the border officials are entitled to is access to the laptop to review any currently open browser tabs or locally cached emails etc.

      '''Currently, the main area of contention concerning the border search exception is its application to the search of the electronic files and information contained in travelers' laptops and other electronic storage devices for illegal materials including child pornography. Two notable decisions have been rendered with the respective intermediate appellate courts backing the United States Government's position that the search of electronic devices falls under the category of property searches and that the devices are functionally and qualitatively equivalent to other closed containers.[10] According to this position, the Government asserts that it may open, login, and search through all the electronic information stored on traveler's electronic devices.'''

    81. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter what Georgetown thinks when this has already been ruled on by SCOTUS. Non-citizens do not have civil rights in the United States. They do have human rights, but for now keeping your facebook password a secret is not a recognized human right in the United States.

    82. Re: Against TOS by skids · · Score: 1

      So this is what, "Make America Mom's Basement Again?"

    83. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Slashdot IS the discussion section, it's pretty much purely social.

      Rak, discussion sections are social, just not SOCIAL 2.0 which Oswald alludes to. The NEW definition of Social Media is not socializing, (which is the interaction you described & we do here). "Social" now means shared photos, clicking on links with userID reference account numbers, (so that person can get credit), participation through trial or free offerings which again your dear friend, (the offerer), gets credit, corporate & astroturf badges or stickers adorning one's account proving how social they are through product loyalty, and last but not least- the feverish & anxiety-filled rush to constantly check one's account lest one find oneself left out & behind the times if disconnected for 30minutes.

      We are talkative, argumentative, instructive, and humorous here at /. Which in real-life is called social, but Social Media (as called out by Oswald) is pretty much correct- we ain't no SOCIAL 2.0 (and thank goodness).

      Heck I didn't even bother signing in. It can't be all that important or 'SOCIAL 2.0' just regular social is good enough :D

      TL;DR We are socializing here, but not Social Media'ing.

    84. Re: Against TOS by Archtech · · Score: 1

      That objection did occur to me. But isn't it ridiculous to use "Slashdot" and "social" in the same sentence? I think it is.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    85. Re: Against TOS by Archtech · · Score: 1

      If you think Slashdot is social, what do you think is antisocial?

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    86. Re: Against TOS by Archtech · · Score: 1

      And cat videos. Don't forget the cat videos.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    87. Re: Against TOS by Archtech · · Score: 1

      Exactically.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    88. Re: Against TOS by laie_techie · · Score: 1

      That's not what the inscription on the Statue of Liberty says.

      "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus

      The French constructed the Statue of Liberty, not Americans.

    89. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to recall stories years ago about how oppressive places like China were. I remember reading about how they demanded to see everyone's online posts, etc. I remember how many Patriots were cheering the good old USA freedoms. One thing I've learned about US culture is that it is extremely hypocritical. For a culture that prides itself on being a rational and logical nation of laws, the only real logic is that the law only applies to those the US decides it applies to.

    90. Re: Against TOS by infolation · · Score: 1

      Sure, but I have no idea what my slashdot password is.

      Firefox > Preferences > Security > Saved Logins

    91. Re: Against TOS by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Common mistake. The US built the pedestal where the inscription is, not the French.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    92. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm of the opinion that whoever wants to come in should be required to submit to full fingerprinting, iris photos, full facial & tattoo/scar photography, DNA cheek swab, blood sample; hell, even dental x-rays if it's feasible.
      Everything possible to ID them should they turn out to be malefactors or parts of them are found somewhere.

    93. Re: Against TOS by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Can you point to the article in the Constitution that gives the government the power to demand facebook passwords from people?

      The constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens or citizens. It is an exhaustive list of the powers of the federal government, with additional notes on things the federal government cannot do.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    94. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Bill of Rights for Americans.

    95. Re: Against TOS by dougdonovan · · Score: 0

      get me in change password have fun

    96. Re: Against TOS by Alumoi · · Score: 1

      Being anti-social is still being social.

    97. Re: Against TOS by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Is that like people who are depressed take anti depressants.

      We go to social media to be anti social.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    98. Re:Against TOS by infolation · · Score: 1

      it's entirely possible to say that one country is "freer" than another.

      For example, the United states has 693 people incarcerated per 10,000 (2nd highest in the world), whereas the Seychelles has a whopping 799 (highest in the world).

      Therefore it's reasonable to say that the United States is 1.06% more free than the Seychelles. Although admittedly by this metric the United States is less free than the rest of the entire world.

    99. Re:Against TOS by coolsnowmen · · Score: 1

      These laws do not apply at a "border" which is all of customs.

    100. Re:Against TOS by admin7087 · · Score: 1

      With a bit of care and knowledge of rank correlation coefficients and statistics, it is fairly easy to create a meaningful measure of freedom for countries, based on a variety of objective factors that aren't too hard to measure and verify either. There are finitely many factors and you probably don't even need a large number to get a meaningful comparison tool. To be honest, I'd be surprised if such an indicator doesn't exist yet, or maybe even several. Granted, the aggregation method will always be controversial, but that doesn't mean that the indicator is useless.

      Your own example should already tell you that your statement is false, since a country C in which you are forbidden to do X and forbidden to do Y is clearly less free than A and B.

    101. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "renting a spot in house" analogy feels reasonable enough. That's an okay expectation that border guards might be able to do ~comparable checks on people. Maybe basic assurance of liquidity, maybe a simple criminal background / current warrant check. Much more than that? Absolutely uncommon. I will actually think you're unpleasant and nuts, and stay clear of you.

      Asking what may amount to complete insight into someone's private life is not at all normal. I'm not exactly asking to be let into the most immediate vicinity of nuclear weapons!

      I really think we're having a bit of a culture divide here if you are at the point where it feels right to ask *this* kind of a compromise on privacy for merely letting people in your country or renting a room.

    102. Re: Against TOS by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 2

      It's better to agree by using a 2nd social medial handle that shows how super happy you are about Trump-America yeah!

      We want only the best deceptive people to come to America.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    103. Re:Against TOS by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      Do you think they wanted to create a 10-year backlog on reviewing potential immigrant social media accounts on purpose?

      I mean, how many people are they going to hire to speak Yemeni or Syrian or what-not to read thousands of blog posts?

      We already have good vetting, but this is deep, deep, penetrating vetting. Like a good relationship.

      Sadly, most applicants pets will die of old age before the vetting finishes; "Is this your cat! Where is your cat? Where?!"

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    104. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word "free" (as in "Land of the Free") is dangerously undefined.

      That's a feature not a bug.

      Free from what? Free to do what? Not free to do what? The answers to the second and third questions would run to thousands of pages.

      To assert that one country is "free" while another is "not free" is ridiculous. It doesn't even make much sense to say that one country is "freer" than another. So in Country A you are allowed to do X but forbidden to do Y; whereas in Country B it is the other way round. Presumably which country you prefer is a function of whether you prefer X to Y.

      The short answer is that, as originally intended, the United States governing documents presume that you can do anything, and the government is only allowed to do what we explicitly prescribe it to be allowed to, while in most (all?) other countries the government is presumed to be free to do anything and the governed only allowed what the government specifically says that they can. Our constitution states what the government is allowed to do by us, not the other way around.

      That's why freedom, as in "you can do whatever you want that we (the people) haven't agreed that you can't", here is better than freedom, as in "you're only allowed to do what we've said that you can", there.

    105. Re:Against TOS by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      More things being prohibited does not necessarily make a country less free, if the freedom you're concerned with is freedom from other people's actions. A country where it's permitted for me to beat you into the ground over any perceived slight has less legally prohibited than America, but it's hardly more free for you, the victim, who is then subject to my will.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    106. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if its someone like me who avoids FB and other data mining sites like the black plague? No passwords to turn over!

    107. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This clearly does not apply to searching online accounts. The DHS doesn't get to search my bank accounts or health records when I cross the border.

    108. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the point.

      There have been charges for violating a TOS before. Because by violating the TOS you are no longer authorised to use the machine. Unauthorised access is illegal.

      Therefore, giving your password is illegal.

    109. Re:Against TOS by jpapon · · Score: 1

      This clearly does not apply to searching online accounts. The DHS doesn't get to search my bank accounts, home, or health records when I cross the border - they only get to search things that are actually physically crossing the border.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    110. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you sign a contract that specifies US law as governing law then you can break US law outside the US. Whether that is enforceable against you outside US is another matter.
      Legally you can even do crazy things like agree US law be governing a contract in French language with place of jurisdiction in Berlin, Germany.
      Not that anyone recommends that.

    111. Re: Against TOS by mab · · Score: 1

      At the time it was gifted the US had an open boarder

    112. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One visit to the shit hole that is fascist America was one too much, nothing to see but a bunch of dumb cunts.

    113. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Free from what? Free to do what?

      In this context 'free' means 'not forbidden': To that end, you are free to go into outer space, you are free to be a doctor. 'Free' does not mean one can hang a shingle on the door saying "Medical Doctor" anytime the whim arises; the government and AMA are, in turn, free (and legally empowered) to impose regulations upon someone practicing medicine.

      It doesn't even make much sense to say that one country is "freer" than another.

      Australians never had the right to free speech, or assembly and recently lost the right to peaceful protest; yet, the standard of living is similar to the USA with less crime and poverty (per capita).

    114. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just make a fake account on FB and Twitter and hand over those details. Follow and like Trump on both accounts and you're done.

      That's what the 'bad dudes' will do while the rest of us get bent over privacy issues. This isn't going to inconvenience Al Queda/ISIS at all.

    115. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      considering you have had more terrorism from USA citizens, I presume you are going to be first in line to hand over everything you just volunteered everyone else for.

      or are you a massive cockwomble hypocrite?

      please tell...

    116. Re: Against TOS by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      We are all in serious trouble on the day when they are asking for Slashdot passwords when we want to cross the border.

      The people here with logins, I mean.

    117. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe "free" has now been redefined to refer not to the people but the government and that it is free to do what it wants?

    118. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's an empty word

      like most

    119. Re:Against TOS by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Lawfully Authorized sounds like it would mean with the permission of the service (Facebook etc), or with a Judicial Warrant. I don't think the police asking would count as Authorized.

    120. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, an open ocean border for immigrants from Europe.

      And they went through much worse and humiliating vetting, such as having to strip naked to be checked for medical conditions.

      Many were kept on Ellis Island for weeks in prison-like conditions.

      Many were sent back.

      And those who were admitted had their names changed.

    121. Re:Against TOS by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      I think Lawfully Authorized means permission to Authority to violate the Terms of Service, not who you work for.

    122. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't have anything to hide, why do you close your window shades at night?

    123. Re:Against TOS by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      The server very well could be at the border. The constitution free zone of the border covers most of the USA.

    124. Re:Against TOS by jeremyp · · Score: 3, Informative

      So if you don't hand over your Facebook password, you might be organising a terrorist group from your Facebook page so you can't enter the |USA.

      If you do hand over your Facebook password, you have committed a felony, so you can't enter the USA.

      That strikes me as exactly the outcome that the Trump administration is looking for.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    125. Re: Against TOS by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      That would require me to be at home. Which is orthogonal to being in front of a US TSA agent. I can't do both at the same time. And I sure as hell am not going to do that to all my passwords before going on a trip to the US just to prep for this BOHICA.

    126. Re:Against TOS by tsqr · · Score: 1

      Lawfully Authorized sounds like it would mean with the permission of the service (Facebook etc), or with a Judicial Warrant. I don't think the police asking would count as Authorized.

      Perhaps. "Lawfully authorized ... activity" would be subject to judicial interpretation, I suppose.

    127. Re:Against TOS by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Irrelevant and you should know better. Its like saying since most accident happen in the home you can be completely reckless whenever you leave the house.

      Yet another instance of what happens when the Venn diagram of "idiots" and "statistics" overlap.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    128. Re:Against TOS by GNious · · Score: 1

      As for the terms of service the recipient is not a party to the contract, so it can't regulate this in any way. It can only regulate the relationship between you and Facebook, if you hand over the password they have cause to terminate your account. That can of course leave the user caught between a rock and a hard place, either they "voluntarily" hand over the password to US customs or they're refused entry into the US. But neither contract nor criminal law absolves you of any duties just because complying is difficult.

      If Facebook started to suspend accounts that had been searched at the border, would the backlash be against Facebook or the US Gov?

    129. Re:Against TOS by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      If they didn't plan on logging in then they don't need your password. Also you can use your phone right after and change your password.

    130. Re: Against TOS by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Countries that are big into symbolism (the pledge of allegiance in school? Really?) tend to do poorly on protecting the poor and minorities.

    131. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you outlaw twitting only outlaws will twit. Wait, what happened?

    132. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a bit of care and knowledge of rank correlation coefficients and statistics, it is fairly easy to create a meaningful measure of freedom for countries, based on a variety of objective factors that aren't too hard to measure and verify either. There are finitely many factors and you probably don't even need a large number to get a meaningful comparison tool. To be honest, I'd be surprised if such an indicator doesn't exist

      Me too, but thankfully it does exist. It's called IDH.

    133. Re:Against TOS by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      >massive privilege of entering the US (and it is a privilege)
      Is it a privilege for American Citizens, though? There simply is no argument to limiting the amount of oversight the government wants to put on foreigners asking for entry. There is very little to no rights guaranteed for non-citizens. But their are many rights and privileges that American citizens enjoy in America. Which ultimately means that their probably must be some limit placed on what the government can do at the boarder to you, a returning American citizen.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    134. Re:Against TOS by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That's actually the reason for a lot of stupid-looking questions on forms for entering the US. The US isn't going to check up on you checking the box that indicates you aren't a member of a terrorist organization (if there is one). However, if it turns out you were, and said you weren't, that's grounds for being kicked out of the country without further ado.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    135. Re:Against TOS by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      However, requiring the password shows disrespect for the person entering the US, and will therefore become mandatory under der Trumppenfuehrer.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    136. Re:Against TOS by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      Most individuals at borders are not employees or agents of any US law enforcement agency or intelligence agency and are not exempted by this provision.

    137. Re: Against TOS by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Well, we do. Some other people go to social media to be social. Weird.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    138. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, It happened to me.

    139. Re:Against TOS by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      So if someone stands in the International terminal of an Airport having just landed and shoots other passengers, then he won't be arrested for murder and tried in the USA?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    140. Re:Against TOS by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      Except non-citizens from these specific countries are free to decline these searches and return to their point of origin. It's not a right being violated; it's a right being waved for the privilege of entry.

      The phrase "the constitution is not a suicide pact" has been used to justify some very odious stuff, but it seems rather appropriate here. It's quite alarming to watch leftists bending arguments that I would normally be the first to champion to imply that America is completely powerless to impose any extra security requirements at all to non-citizens of war-torn, theocratic hellholes.

      Entry to America has not been and cannot be an automatic, inalienable right. Thsi should be a complete non-starter for anyone who isn't high on keyboard duster, and you risk further marginalizing people who actually do care about discussing the erosion of the bill of rights when you talk in this manner.

    141. Re:Against TOS by dbIII · · Score: 1

      That ridiculous fiction of convenience again?
      Thought experiment - murder in airport - do you REALLY think the police will not be allowed to investigate? It is extremely obvious, of course US law applies inside the USA.

    142. Re:Against TOS by dbIII · · Score: 1

      If anyone else is using your token to access their service they should be hit with some felony "unlawful access to computer resources" hacking charges

      Sounds good to me to apply that to the DHS, but we are sliding into "might makes right" territory these days like in China, Russia and other places we've been told for years act in an "unAmerican" manner.

    143. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. 14th amendment.
      The correct answer is that the constitution applies only inside US jurisdiction.

      Learn your Constitution. Love it. Respect it and the values it embodies, for without them it would never have seen the light of day.
      All men are created equal. Hold this truth to be self-evident.

    144. Re: Against TOS by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      Probably not if those other passengers are brown.

    145. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Now shove-that UTA of DemoRat globalist sluts

    146. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are clueless. The inscription is by a poet and was placed long after the statue was built, and the decision was 100% by Americans. It's not law, but the inscription didn't come with "instructions" at all and if you are American and want to talk about it, then do your research first.

    147. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can look up your password in Firefox' password manager if you care.

    148. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So this has nothing to do with you then... FUCK OFF.

    149. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well they could just ask you to sign in, there is no need to know your password. all they need is you signing in, they take it from there.

    150. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Already did 15 years ago because the USA has gone to shit and is a laughing stock to the rest of the world. I was so embarrassed to be an American that I renounced my US citizenship 5 years ago.

    151. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can view your firefox passwords in plain text from Options->Security->Saved Passwords.
      No need to lose anything.

    152. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no constitutional protection for non citizens at the border, you fucking imbecile.

    153. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Something about securing something or other from threats something and abroad.

      You aren't actually looking for a real answer, because you already know it exists. You're just a fucking liar and pretender, feigning ignorance when you know that you are wrong.

      Fuck off and die.

    154. Re: Against TOS by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Also if you can't add one and one to get three, you can't come in.

      There. All immigration "problems" "solved".

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    155. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never put anything real on FB or Twitter. Always use a fake name, details, etc.

      Or only use those social media platforms where you can remain anonymous.

    156. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely not! You need to break up with your X which will lead you to ask the question...Y ? :)

    157. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Likely the car is stolen.

    158. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In order to receive the massive privilege of entering the US (and it is a privilege)

      You can keep your privilege. I don't even want to enter that shithole anymore.

    159. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So when will Americans get freedom?

    160. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC does not understand the difference between social media and social networks/social websites.

    161. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a good way to get rejected. They probably already know which account they want access to, and it's not the johndoe_dhs one.

    162. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, let me do an anal test to check if you are hiding drugs, will be ok if you have nothing to hide ... ?
      Human rights and respect people.

    163. Re: Against TOS by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Well, we do. Some other people go to social media to be social. Weird.

      Thank goodness we're not like them. I'd hate to be one of those weirdoes!

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    164. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you could just kill all the border guards and walk in? I mean, if the law doesn't apply at the border, that would be logical.

    165. Re:Against TOS by fox171171 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, "free" in this context is like "unlimited" is to the telecoms.

    166. Re:Against TOS by fox171171 · · Score: 1

      this wouldn't be a search; it would be a compulsion to divulge information, which would then be used to assist in searching for something which isn't at the border.

      Agreed. Also if one were to extend their logic, if you have a phone at the border, it is capable of connecting to any other phone in the USA, and potentially many other countries. So would this then give border agents the ability to call anyone and interrogate them? Or have someone go seize their phone and search it simply because your phone can connect to it? Makes about as much sense as what they are doing now.

    167. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes please and a case of Dew and a Costco sized tub of Vasoline.

    168. Re:Against TOS by Agripa · · Score: 1

      At least with FB it's against the TOS, ...

      So it would also be a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act according to the Department of Justice.

    169. Re:Against TOS by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Because it's against the TOS, it's against the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

      18 U.S. Code 103018 U.S. Code 1030(f): This section does not prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, or intelligence activity of a law enforcement agency of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State, or of an intelligence agency of the United States.

      That does not save the person giving up their password and they were the ones who agreed to the terms of service.

    170. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd argue they aren't lawfully authorized to investigate YOU per se. It is easy to see it is a fishing expedition.

      The real solution is to say "I don't have social media", and perhaps pre-delete the app from the phone. Always easy to put back on.

    171. Re: Against TOS by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Yup. I'm happy being an Alpha. Social media are for Betas and Gammas, who live dull non-intellectual lives.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    172. Re:Against TOS by tepples · · Score: 1

      A judge, or even a bunch of judges, deciding to "consider" something reasonable does not make it reasonable.

      People with guns don't care whether something is reasonable. They care whether it is considered reasonable.

    173. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law doesn't make an exemption for social media. Facebook is a multi billion dollar company and it's TOS is very clear.

      The law does make exceptions in cases of national security. Thanks for playing.

    174. Re: Against TOS by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      That's why Americans should get used to foreign tourists going elsewhere. It's been happening for a while anyway, due to crazy gun laws, or access to healthcare and just a bad vibe during Bush II. The thing is, the people who won't come to America are the people you had nothing to fear from anyway.

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
    175. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the point.

      There have been charges for violating a TOS before. Because by violating the TOS you are no longer authorised to use the machine. Unauthorised access is illegal.

      Therefore, giving your password is illegal.

      And who's gonna arrest you for complying with orders from federal border guards? ... [crickets] ... That's right, nobody.

    176. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Showing what's on FN is one thing - handing over control of my FB account is another thing entirely!

    177. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's still an option for our enemies! Which is why we have guns, to stop that from happening to us.

    178. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

      So, there's a door, and presumably a wall.

    179. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From an old Hungarian joke: In a free country, free people are free to say whatever is free. :)

    180. Re: Against TOS by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      I don't even want to THINK what going through an Entry Port is like, now. 20 years ago, I was doing deploy trips, for the US Department of Defense, all over the world. And getting back into the US was a royal pain in the butt THEN. . . . and THAT was with an Official US Gov passport and DoD Credentials. Long before there was a DHS, and even worse, the massive pile of fail that is the TSA.

      I miss America. I wonder if it will ever come back. . .

    181. Re:Against TOS by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      Actually I am well aware.
      The doctrine is being abused.

      This doctrine is not actually an exception to the Fourth Amendment, but rather to the Amendment's requirement for a warrant or probable cause. [...] This balance at international borders means that routine searches are "reasonable" there, and therefore do not violate the Fourth Amendment's proscription against "unreasonable searches and seizures"

      And the intent of said doctrine is much more mudaine. The are supposed to be looking for drugs, illegal weapons, and proper visa papers... not trawling a giant-assed fishnet looking for any scrap of information that could be used to convict someone.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    182. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the border, any and all "searches and seizures" are considered "reasonable" for purposes of the Fourth Amendment. See Border search exception.

      This is one of the big lies that the unethical portion of government - and the unethical members of the legal profession - would have you believe.

      Government authority to conduct searches at the border become constrain the moment the Bill of Rights was written - and it has always been constrained since then. There is and there can be NO unrestricted search - to have such is to create a multitude of contradictions in the legal system.

      Contradictions in the legal system are ALWAYS unethical practice of law - and the right to ethical practice of law arises under the 9th and 10th Amendment. Other fundamental rights affecting the freedom of government to search also arise under these amendments: there are direct legal implications to the belief that we live in the "land of the free". Hence a policy that ANY search is reasonable at a "border" contradicts a number of fundamental rights arising under the 9th and 10th Amendments, in addition to the 4th Amendment. Any judge that was thinking of upholding or allowing such a policy should have refused to do so as a matter of legal ethics.

      It doesn't matter what higher courts say, since the rights "retained by the people" are - by definition - retained by the people - and hence can not be taken away by ANY entity of government. Any judicial ruling that makes ANY search "reasonable" at a "border" is thus a violation of the judge's oath to uphold the Bill of Rights, and hence a violation of the "Good Behavior" requirement the Constitution places on judges. It's also unethical practice of law - since contradictions in the legal system ALWAYS involve unethical practice of law.

      It is, in short, illegal conduct by courts to create such precedents, and it is illegal conduct by the border police to abide by such precedents: those who do not understand that need to carefully review events at a place called Nuremberg regarding the enforcement of illegal laws - which apply to even those laws illegally upheld by the courts.

      Further, it is not within the legal authority of the government to grant immunity or right to pardon when 9th Amendment rights are involved - since that would create another contradiction as there could be NO rights retained by the people in such a case.

      Thus we have an interesting situation - one of many - where the government is routinely violating the law. Much the same kind of things is going on today as was happening during the Jim Crow era - but it's not just state governments that are routinely committing illegal and often criminal acts.

      The way things are actually required to work - if the government is compliant with the Bill of Rights, the highest law in the land - is they don't search individuals that are US citizens, and they shouldn't even be questioning them beyond establishing identity, nor can there be any requirement for individuals to make declarations concerning what they are carrying in their personal luggage.

      It's different if the government wants to search ships carrying cargo, or other business transportation - or if they have legitimate grounds for a search of an individual US citizen that ANY reasonable person would accept.

    183. Re: Against TOS by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      The only time the word "securing" appears in the Constitution is "securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings". "Threats" and "abroad" don't appear either. Try again. Here, have a link to the United States Constitution.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    184. Re:Against TOS by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Trivial: have two online id's: one called "ILoveAmerica" featuring flattering pictures of Donald Trump,
      and the other one "DeathToAmerica" showing how you really feel.

    185. Re: Against TOS by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Oh. Yeah, you're probably right about that.

      After all, I can only post a clickable URL to youtube rather than embed a Youtube video in the post.

    186. Re: Against TOS by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      "Give me your tired, your poor,
      Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

      Note - it doesn't say give me your thinly disguised invasion force just waiting to kill all of us and take over the country. No mention of give me your people that are taught from the age of 3 that killing infidels is ok and there is nothing other than islam.

      I know about this stuff. I own houses with people that used to be muslims in Africa. They're now Christians living in many countries including the US. They are here to kill, in France, England, Finnland, Spain, Italy.... so on and especially the US.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (Dearborn)
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (The UK) ...Could go on and on and on. They're an invasion force.

    187. Re:Against TOS by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      I agree. This is very simple and very great. Bigly! If you won't show your facebook profile then you have something to hide (why wouldn't you if you didn't?). If you have something to hide you are guilty. Seems like good security and can't be abused at all. Finally, we're back to common sense small government!

      What if they do not have a facebook profile. Not too many immigrants know more than google, emailing, texting and no phone calling because it is too $$$$

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    188. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple, yeah right. The person gives you the username they WANT you to see.

    189. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not complying by the orders that you will be arrested for.

      It's accessing a computer system (Facebook) without authorization afterwards, as your legitimate access was revoked by the act of sharing your password.

    190. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except non-citizens from these specific countries are free to decline these searches and return to their point of origin. It's not a right being violated; it's a right being waved for the privilege of entry.

      That's a nice way to argue that Saudi Arabia and North Korea never violated the rights of anyone who isn't a citizen.

    191. Re:Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TOS is a company saying "this is what we want, if you don't do what we want we are taking our toys and you can't play with them anymore".

      And that's exactly what every TOS says. If you hand over your password to someone else, you are no longer authorized to access Facebook.

      The next day, when you log in again, you are in violation - not of the TOS, but of "accessing a computer system without Authorization". Meet the Computer Fraud and Abuse act.

    192. Re: Against TOS by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Did the US Constitution ever apply outside the US' jurisdiction?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    193. Re: Against TOS by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Have Slashdot users fallen so low that this could actually be a problem? Really, seriously, don't you realise that you can solve this problem? Trivially. So trivially that even the TSA would struggle to call it a hack.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    194. Re: Against TOS by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      The terms and conditions of entry would almost certainly ban you from doing this. That is, the TSA/ DHS's T&Cs, not the social media's T&Cs.

      So just take that a little further. The moment that you've done that, even for one social media site (e.g. you've given them the keys to the Facebook account that your wife knows about, but not to the Facebook account where you talk to your boyfriends), then you've entered the country under false pretences and in violation of your visa. You're an illegal. Enjoy.

      You're on holiday. But you're illegal. So that car you were renting, that's rented illegally. Your insurance is invalid. Your health insurance is invalid. Your travel insurance is invalid. You really don't want to come to anyone's attention at all. Not even a parking ticket.

      Obviously Trump doesn't want anyone coming from the rest of the world.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    195. Re: Against TOS by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      Remind me again why I want to solve this problem. Yes, I know I could find my password. I don't care. But since that's on my home PC, and I'm standing in front of a TSA agent, at that point, it's too late.

      Really? 5-digit UID and you don't get simple spatial awareness?

    196. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One visit to the shit hole that is fascist America was one too much, nothing to see but a bunch of dumb cunts.

      oddly enough, when you arrived, that's what we said.

    197. Re: Against TOS by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      You said that you'd "I'll lose my account" to your account. Implicitly permanently.

      Quite how you're going to do that without logging in, changing the password, then logging out again without keeping any record of the password, isn't clear.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    198. Re:Against TOS by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between a one-time waiver and a permanent one. And the specific right being waived rather matters. And this is apparently targeted specifically at high risk countries that (presumably) do not have a very robust or trustworthy background check service that we can tap.

    199. Re:Against TOS by tepples · · Score: 1

      This is the kind of ridiculous conversation that happens when people talk about whether or not the laws-as-written (or re-written by courts) apply to a situation, instead of people talking about what they want the law to be.

      Then the question becomes who's going to convince three-fourths of state legislatures to call a convention, propose amendments, and ratify them.

    200. Re: Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Native American thank you for your comment. You are right and even after 500 years we are still having our rights and freedoms stepped all over.

      Land of the free my ass.

      Native America
      Fighting terrorism since 1492

    201. Re:Against TOS by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Gutless coward mods me down and then replies AC and then mods himself up... A shame he doesn't have the guts to just post his views.

      Let me correct your brainwashing and inform you on the classical and accurate political spectrum, it is up to you to accept it or continue to live in your fantasy bubble:

      Right wing: Want zero/minimal government interference; Anarchists, Libertarians to varying degrees

      Moderate: Want limited government for collective good to have military, police force, maintain roads etc. most conservatives are here

      Left Wing: Want government control of all aspects of life: Fascists, Socialists, Communists all here to varying degrees.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    202. Re: Against TOS by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      We just had 8 years of Barak Hussain Obama, your glorious liberal leader and his first 2 years he had TOTAL CONTROL of the house and senate. Remember that? If border searches were such a terrible injustice, why were the laws not changed then? EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD vets and searches foreigners entering its borders to varying degrees, depending on where they come from. The US is actively in a war with radical Islam and those crazy fuckers want to murder us. We have every right to screen people coming in to the country and the laws reflect this.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    203. Re:Against TOS by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      You do realize that they are not looking in the legal searching sense, they are looking to exclude potential terrorists. They would not be introducing FB content in a court of law, but they might kick someone out of the country or refer someone to the FBI for further investigation.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    204. Re:Against TOS by EmptyHead · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... CFAA Wiki
      I don't see how this relates to a "protected computer" as it would need to be as specified in the CFAA.

    205. Re:Against TOS by EmptyHead · · Score: 1

      How is this a felony? Law enforcement can request this and does so frequently, this is just a new context. The CFAA wouldn't apply: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    206. Re:Against TOS by Kagato · · Score: 1

      Ask Matthew Keys. He went to jail for sharing credentials that ended up with a minor defacement of a news paper website.

    207. Re:Against TOS by lpq · · Score: 1

      What if you don't have a Facebook profile?

    208. Re: Against TOS by laie_techie · · Score: 1

      At the time it was gifted the US had an open boarder

      And now we have about 16 million open boarders. Wait, if these 16 million illegals are in semi-hiding I guess they don't count as open boarders ...

    209. Re: Against TOS by Sassinak · · Score: 1

      It applies to all PERSONS (not citizens) that are within the US's territorial boarders.

      I fail to understand how this is difficult to accept.

      One reason the courts adopted the stance of ALL PERSONS within the US's territorial boarders is because:
      1: It prevents the law from essentially shafting a person by arbitrarily excluding a person by deciding they are citizen non-grata when someone else decides.
      2: It insures a uniformity of law to all persons (citizens, those visiting, and those in process to become citizens) to prevent the case of "we didn't know they are a citizen" (ie: incarceration/imprisonment/murder of an innocent person).. which is also why the new laws are scary.. basically its a nation wide "stop, frisk and show your papers" and woe be he/she who doesn't carry their passport/birth certificate now.

      This is also why the US is trying to keep GitMo.. because the laws apply to ALL Persons within its territorial boarders (hence having ops sites outside of them so they are not subject to US laws).

      --
      God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board -- Mark Twain Look for http://Thebar.steelbeachca
  2. WTF? by Calydor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can imagine Facebook, Twitter etc. blowing up over this.

    Besides, if they get password access how can they use ANYTHING they find as evidence of anything? They've got WRITE access, for crying out loud! The evidence chain isn't just poisoned, it's rotted right through.

    --
    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    1. Re:WTF? by parallel_prankster · · Score: 2

      Most social websites will have a timestamp of when the post was made or edited. So, government trapping people by writing fake posts may not be a viable option. Or at least we know this, not sure if the bozos running the government do. I think they might even try!

    2. Re:WTF? by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That seems to be the least of the problems. Even if you assume good faith (and you can't... too many stories of individual immigration officers, possibly with the encouragement of higher ups, acting inhumanely towards would-be immigrants), the request doesn't make sense: if I say I don't have a Twitter or Facebook account, are they going to believe me? What are the chances I have one if I live in a part of the world with no Internet?

      And if I do, and I'm actually using my Facebook account to meet up with terrorists, preparing to be the first person ever from any of those seven countries to commit an act of terrorism in the US, what makes you think I'd use the same account for that as I do talking with friends and family? I mean, having one account used for both seems like it'd be asking for trouble. Guess which password you'd end up with...

      What a waste of time and resources, and a completely unnecessary invasion of privacy.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    3. Re:WTF? by Jhon · · Score: 1

      Access to financial records can make sense. The social media thing is just stupid. People will just start using two sets of email and two sets of social media. One set for me -- and one set for Mrs. Grundy to review which has tons of "followings" of cat videos and dog tricks.

    4. Re:WTF? by ugen · · Score: 1

      I don't think there is much respect left for "evidence chain", in particular wrt. non-US-citizens.

    5. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're so close to realizing this will eventually become mandatory unfettered read-only API calls for the gubmint.

      Better also keep an eye on them for domestic dissidents too. Maybe we can come up with a catchy name for it like COINTELPRO.

    6. Re:WTF? by caseih · · Score: 2

      If they want to vet someone's social media presence, they can already subpoena these predominantly American companies and get this information. But what about someone who has no social media presence at all?

      The feds have been trending in this general direction for years now, with suspensions of constitutional rights at border crossings that started back under Bush and Obama. Unfortunately the new administration is even less respectful of the rule of law.

      You're absolutely right that officials can with this information alter the information about a person online and plant evidence and sow falsehoods (ahem alternative facts) about someone that, perhaps who an official or high-level figure does not like. And since not every person who works for these departments is strictly honest, this is going to happen. Period. Even if it's not some larger conspiracy.

      Seems like the administration either has not considered this, or simply does not care. Either possibility is downright scary.

    7. Re:WTF? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can imagine Facebook, Twitter etc. blowing up over this.

      Me too, except "blowing up" in the sense of suddenly having lots of new account signups. I imagine a desk at airports, with public computer everyone uses to sign up for accounts on these websites, in order to have a password to hand over.

      "Uh, yeah, my account is throwaway12345@gmail.com. My password is 12345."

      how can they use ANYTHING they find as evidence of anything?

      This isn't for purposes of finding evidence. It's for theater. Someone got the idea that American voters want visitors to be humiliated and insulted, and this is their idea for how to best do it.

      How the idea of anal pattern photographs got shot down, I have no idea. Cowards!!

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    8. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      f I say I don't have a Twitter or Facebook account, are they going to believe me?

      I suspect that will be taken as "failure to cooperate".

    9. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It certainly seems unnecessary for Twitter. You just need someone's @handle to see everything.

      For FB I suppose they could make it mandatory to accept a friend request from Border_Guard so your posting can be viewed but it's possible to have groups of friends set up to control how visible posts are, so there's a workaround there.

      However, if it's just a case that lawyers would keep using the poisoned evidence chain argument in court then it's probably easier to "silence" a few lawyers until the rest get the picture that their only job is to do what the state tells them.

    10. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      COINTELPRO sounds like an old-school coin-counting machine with a modem built in and some fancy features that set it apart from the non-"pro" version.

      You'd think an agency that purports to use communication and psychology to deduce the actions of others would know how to use simple marketing tricks to make their super-fancy project names not sound pants-on-head retarded.

      This incompetence is part of why I don't worry too much about US "intelligence" agencies. They may be intelligent, but they have yet to prove it.

    11. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Evidence chain: ancient concept based on the alleged difference between facts and unfacts

    12. Re:WTF? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And if I do, and I'm actually using my Facebook account to meet up with terrorists, preparing to be the first person ever from any of those seven countries to commit an act of terrorism in the US, what makes you think I'd use the same account for that as I do talking with friends and family? I mean, having one account used for both seems like it'd be asking for trouble. Guess which password you'd end up with...

      Exactly this. It would take minimal effort for a would-be terrorist to make a "clean" Facebook account. Have it only friend pro-US people and be completely innocuous - not even discussing US politics, but discussing which pop band is the best and the results of "Which Hogwarts House Am I In" quizzes. A clever terrorist organization could even have a whole division dedicated to maintaining these accounts for years before handing them over to the would-be-terrorist. DHS gets the clean Facebook account and doesn't see the secondary account where he's liked every anti-US Facebook post there is. This won't protect us from terrorists (except, maybe extremely stupid ones), will weaken the security of people entering the US, and will lead to abuse.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    13. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i could posibly kinda see them tying someone to an account and seeing there public activity but i guess the idea is seeing there private activity on the service/s. seems a bit much to me and not every one uses those services would they believe some one if they said they did not not to mention people not using their real name on an account they may use.

    14. Re:WTF? by qbast · · Score: 0

      "Uh, yeah, my account is throwaway12345@gmail.com. My password is 12345."

      Uh, yeah, you are going back on next flight. See you, smarty pants.

    15. Re:WTF? by The-Ixian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think it is fine as long as all other countries ask for traveling American's passwords.

      Just wait for that blow-up

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    16. Re:WTF? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I'll wager money on them trying.
      Not necessarily as a program of sorts, but single operators with access because of their position certainly will.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    17. Re:WTF? by JeffOwl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rules of evidence don't apply in this case unless they try to prosecute you for something. Denial of entry does not require the same standards as criminal prosecution.

    18. Re:WTF? by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but most people don't have their Twitter handles tattooed on their foreheads. (Neither do I, it was just the most over-the-top thing I could think of.)

      So, a visitor to the U.S. would still have to tell the government stooge their Twitter handle and password. The point being, if they just turned over a Twitter handle, how does the government stooge prove that it's that visitor's Twitter account? Clearly, if you know the password, that goes a long way towards proving that.

      Except, what's keeping someone from just saying that they don't have a Twitter account? It's not nearly as ubiquitous as a Facebook account. And hell, I know people who don't have a Facebook account either.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    19. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wooooooooooooosh.

    20. Re:WTF? by houghi · · Score: 2

      Please alsp define "Social media" I do not have Facebook, twitter or similar accounts. Is /. Social Media? Is the webserver with my domain name one, because that is where I put anything I think is important on (It is nothing).
      Is Usernet "Social Media"? What about email?

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    21. Re:WTF? by pr0fessor · · Score: 2

      This is the same as any other thing that gives someone access to personal data. Identity theft in just the US costs victims billions a year what stops a disgruntled government employee from using the information found.

    22. Re:WTF? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I can imagine Facebook, Twitter etc. blowing up over this.

      Besides, if they get password access how can they use ANYTHING they find as evidence of anything? They've got WRITE access, for crying out loud! The evidence chain isn't just poisoned, it's rotted right through.

      That's the point I made above - they can see things w/o a password, particularly in FB.

    23. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I literally do not have an account with facebook or instagram. I have a twitter account that I signed up for 4 or 5 years ago and haven't used since. I don't even know what my username is or which email acct I signed up with. I am a U.S. citizen, but I imagine that other countries would reciprocate. What do I do if I'm trying to visit Italy, for example, and they have such a rule and they ask and I say "I don't have an acct." and they think I am just trying to be evasive and insist on me giving the details?

    24. Re:WTF? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      That seems to be the least of the problems. Even if you assume good faith (and you can't... too many stories of individual immigration officers, possibly with the encouragement of higher ups, acting inhumanely towards would-be immigrants), the request doesn't make sense: if I say I don't have a Twitter or Facebook account, are they going to believe me? What are the chances I have one if I live in a part of the world with no Internet?

      And if I do, and I'm actually using my Facebook account to meet up with terrorists, preparing to be the first person ever from any of those seven countries to commit an act of terrorism in the US, what makes you think I'd use the same account for that as I do talking with friends and family? I mean, having one account used for both seems like it'd be asking for trouble. Guess which password you'd end up with...

      What a waste of time and resources, and a completely unnecessary invasion of privacy.

      For the 7 countries in question, you'd be right: chances are very likely that someone from Sudan, Libya, Somalia or Yemen doesn't have internet

      Also, you're right about the terrorist thing: a terrorist would maintain a personal profile for friends & family, and another for his Ansar al Jihad comrades. And he won't turn over the latter. But one reason for this is undoubtedly San Bernardino, where Tasfeen Malik used her personal page to promote Jihad

    25. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can't wait till they ship you back to Europe for being a domestic terrorist

    26. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are attracted to jobs like that in Homeland Security not because they are noble heroes who want to protect their country...but because they are assholes that want a legitimate excuse to treat someone else like shit and get away with it.

      This proposal fits quite nicely with the employee profile.

    27. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Besides, if they get password access how can they use ANYTHING they find as evidence of anything? They've got WRITE access, for crying out loud! The evidence chain isn't just poisoned, it's rotted right through.

      You're not on trial. They are trying to find evidence that's in your favor, not evidence against you. If they don't want to admit you, they don't have to bother planting evidence, they just stamp "denied" on your visa application.

    28. Re:WTF? by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      COINTELPRO sounds like an old-school coin-counting machine with a modem built in and some fancy features that set it apart from the non-"pro" version.

      You'd think an agency that purports to use communication and psychology to deduce the actions of others would know how to use simple marketing tricks to make their super-fancy project names not sound pants-on-head retarded.

      This incompetence is part of why I don't worry too much about US "intelligence" agencies. They may be intelligent, but they have yet to prove it.

      I hope this is a joke that has gone over my head. COINTELPRO was not any kind of public name. It was the internal name for a COunter INTELligence PROgram.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    29. Re:WTF? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      FYI, lest there be any confusion, I, personally, have always had good experiences with immigration officers. But I've certainly met quite a few people who claim they haven't, and obviously photographs of handcuffed 5yos show at the very least that some immigration officers lack the humanity needed for a job that requires making unbelievably important decisions for people whose lives will be permanently affected by them.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    30. Re:WTF? by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      I think it is fine as long as all other countries ask for traveling American's passwords.

      Just wait for that blow-up

      Americans following the same rules they expect others to follow? Not a chance!

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    31. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody can travel anywhere. Everybody wins!

    32. Re:WTF? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      It would take minimal effort for a would-be terrorist to make a "clean" Facebook account.

      Actually I think the amount of effort to do that would drive people to terrorism.

    33. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What a waste of time and resources, and a completely unnecessary invasion of privacy.

      This only applies to the seven banned countries, countries that don't have reliable records.

      If you travel to the US from Europe, the US requests your police, financial, and surveillance records from your home country. In that case, they don't need your social media accounts, because that contains everything from your political affiliations to the terms of endearment you use with your Swedish mistress.

      If you travel to the US from a place like Somalia, the US can't get any reliable official records on you. By default, that means you won't get admitted. The US immigration system is offering to look at your social media accounts to see whether they show enough stability, financial resources, family connections, etc. to still admit you.

      Think of immigration like a mortgage: you only get it if you can prove that you are good for it, and social media is another option for establishing that you are (in fact, both for immigration and mortgages). Frankly, I think it's a bad idea, but it is intended to help people.

    34. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Please alsp define "Social media" I do not have Facebook, twitter or similar accounts

      I assume only Facebook and LinkedIn would help you make a case that you should be admitted.

    35. Re:WTF? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Please alsp define "Social media" I do not have Facebook, twitter or similar accounts

      I assume only Facebook and LinkedIn would help you make a case that you should be committed.

      Fixed that for you.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    36. Re:WTF? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...What a waste of time and resources, and a completely unnecessary invasion of privacy.

      Your assertion is based on the premise that the people behind this policy actually give a rat's ass about the safety and/or privacy of the average American.

      A friend once made the insightful comment that having to stand in line at an airport waiting to take your shoes off has nothing to do with thwarting terrorism - its purpose is to make obedience to authority reflexive and habitual. As far as I'm concerned this is more of the same - and don't be surprised when, a few years down the road, America citizens are also forced to give up their social media passwords at the border.

      Once upon a time I thought the people who talk about governments of ostensibly 'free' nations having their citizens chipped or bar-coded was the fantasy of conspiracy theorists. These days I'm not sure they're wrong.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    37. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      First off, there is a time stamp associated with every post that is outside of the users control to manipulate. Secondly, this is not a police investigation, it is an immigration investigation, which does not have the same standards or requirements. If the vetting agents don't think you should get in, you don't.

      The purpose of checking out the social media posts of potential entrants is to make sure we don't have another San Bernadino massacre, where the wife who many believe was the instigator, was allowed entry, and then after the massacre, we find she had a number of radical social media entries which would have barred her from getting in.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    38. Re:WTF? by Calydor · · Score: 2

      They are trying to find evidence that's in your favor, not evidence against you.

      I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    39. Re:WTF? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Twitter has much more serious problems then this right now. Like remaining profitable in the face of censoring users, and revenue, engagement and ad revenue following through the floor.

      Funny that twitters decline started around the time they decided to start censoring users, and deciding who gets to see what. And since facebook is doing the same thing, as well as being complicit in open censorship in western democracies(France, Germany, etc). This is likely going to be the least of their problems. It looks like politicians(and gov bodies) will be behind the technical and social curve as usual.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    40. Re:WTF? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      ... People will just start using two sets of email and two sets of social media. One set for me -- and one set for Mrs. Grundy to review which has tons of "followings" of cat videos and dog tricks.

      I can see it now - a Silicon Valley startup with an algorithm that examines social media accounts and claims 87.6% accuracy in determining whether or not an account is fake. Plus a whole department or three in some TLA(s), devoted to using the expensive software that incorporates that algorithm, to ferret out fake Facebook accounts and the people associated with them.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    41. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if I do, and I'm actually using my Facebook account to meet up with terrorists, preparing to be the first person ever from any of those seven countries to commit an act of terrorism in the US, what makes you think I'd use the same account for that as I do talking with friends and family? I mean, having one account used for both seems like it'd be asking for trouble. Guess which password you'd end up with...

      And this is why giving up any password is pointless. Because when they do not discover anything incriminating and demand access to your "real" account (which of course you must have another account, because you are obviously a terrorist yet they found nothing to prove it on the account you did give access to), it is impossible to prove you do not have another password to give up.

    42. Re:WTF? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      ... hell, I know people who don't have a Facebook account either.

      You say that as though you're surprised by the fact. Probably half the people here on Slashdot don't have Facebook accounts.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    43. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      You don't understand; the default is simply for you not to get admitted if you are from one of those seven countries; they don't need to look at your social media account for that, they just deny your visa.

    44. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      You give up your privacy when you go through the vetting process to enter the US. If you don't like it, no one is making you come to the US, it is a privilege that you are applying for. That is a fact that is not changing, and your ignorance of the truth does not change it's historical fact.

      Refusal to provide at least some social media would probably be viewed as failure to comply and result in a rejection of the applicant. It is possible for an active terrorist to create a "clean" social media profile, but the problem there is that, because of the newness of the requirement, the media profile would have a telltale of only just being created recently.

      Further, you erroneously assume that the telltale that investigators are looking for is "using FB to meet up with terrorists" while what they are actually looking for is know associates with radical views. If several of your friends that you frequently message and spend time with have a lot of radical postings about violence and jihad, chances are you are not a good risk. The old saying is still true today: You can judge a person by the company that they keep.

      Regarding the 7 targeted countries, you seem to be confused. There are tens of thousands of active radicals/terrorists in those countries who are actively committing acts of violence. That none of them have successfully committed an attack on US soil recently is only for lack of opportunity. These are not nice places filled with nice people, rainbows and lollipops. They are filled with savages living their lives based on a religion that teaches subjugation of women, condones rape, condones the murder of the infidel (non-muslim) and the murder of homosexuals to name a few highlights. To not take this into account in your discussion is disingenuous. I am not sure if you have been brainwashed by your college professors/MSM, or this discussion really is beyond your capacity...

      In the longer term, this additional vetting will likely not catch active ISIS/terrorist agents, but will be successful in filtering out many radicals who aren't yet intent on committing violence but are essentially the unharvested crop of talent that ISIS has been recruiting in countries like France and for the San Bernadino attack.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    45. Re:WTF? by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      This.

      I have a valid Facebook account wherein I share photographs out and read other people's bullshit, mostly cat videos, and keep up with family.

      It's totally fucking boring and would only verify whatever I already entered into a form (name, address, telephone number, and stuff).

      I have 17 other accounts for 17 different, random, reasons.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    46. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 0

      And that clean account will be what? 3 months old for a 23 year old adult? You are aware that social media has a timeline that the user cant retroactively create right? What you describe would immediately flagged as suspicious based on the account age and only having US friendly content and likely fabricated to defeat the requirement. Applicant denied. Care to try again?

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    47. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you are assuming that people have rights before they are legally in this country? Hell, even citizens don't have rights before going through customs, something that changed during the last administration. Ask any one that travels to different countries regularly.

    48. Re:WTF? by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Please give us your password to the social media site called /.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    49. Re:WTF? by PoopJuggler · · Score: 2

      The problem is they could post something, say "Look you're a terrorist" and send you back to your originating country. By the time you've figured it all out, you're 3000 miles away in a foreign land and nothing you can do. This is RIPE for abuse and I can't believe any court would find this legal.

    50. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      *Golf clap*
      I totally agree. As soon as traveling Americans start blowing people up or trying to murder innocent people abroad for having different religious views. Until then you may want to educate yourself on Islamic terrorism, as this topic is apparently beyond your capacity/knowledge to participate in.

      That smart ass comment might get you a +5 interesting on /. but in the real world it is irrational bullshit.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    51. Re:WTF? by psavo · · Score: 1

      It seems that you have become so extreme, mr. Parallel since you last visited our glorious country.

      --
      fucktard is a tenderhearted description
    52. Re:WTF? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Also lots of people use password managers and generated passwords. I couldn't tell you any of my account passwords from memory.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    53. Re:WTF? by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      It does for now. But social media companies are not going to just sit still and acquiesce to this. It would drive away all of their users. So they will start offering users more permanent ways of deleting things. And online reputation companies will grow their business scrubbing profiles. And in the end, it will create only the type of inefficiency that anti-government types hate and will do nothing to benefit our country. All of these ideas seem to be built on the premise that the US is the most desirable place in the world. In the 1960s, this was probably true. But it's becoming less and less true each day. The bad policy that we adopt now will come back to haunt us in the future.

    54. Re:WTF? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      COINTELPRO sounds like an old-school coin-counting machine with a modem built in and some fancy features that set it apart from the non-"pro" version.

      You'd think an agency that purports to use communication and psychology to deduce the actions of others would know how to use simple marketing tricks to make their super-fancy project names not sound pants-on-head retarded.

      This incompetence is part of why I don't worry too much about US "intelligence" agencies. They may be intelligent, but they have yet to prove it.

      I hope this is a joke that has gone over my head. COINTELPRO was not any kind of public name. It was the internal name for a COunter INTELligence PROgram.

      As a secrecy organization, they should have known that any private name for such a program would be made public. Maybe they were naive back then, but they couldn't be that naive now.

    55. Re:WTF? by admin7087 · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes, yes, but people often forget in these debates what a massive disadvantage even just a single rejected passenger is for the US. You wouldn't want to turn too many happy travelers, businessmen and academics and all of their peer groups and/or companies and departments into fervent Anti-Americans, let alone the embarrassment and troubles that many false positives would cause on the US side. The US already now has the image of being one of the worst countries insofar as border and airport controls are concerned, and I know many people who avoid going to US conferences for that reason alone.

    56. Re:WTF? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      "You've been denied access to the United States because your Facebook account is only three months old and likes boring stuff."

      The immigration system in this country is already a mess, we don't need to add more stupid and arbitrary ways for people to get denied access. If we deny access to someone there should be a good reason, not that their damn Facebook account isn't up to snuff. And, like has been said, it would be easy for an organization to create a whole series of accounts and actively maintain them for years before handing them out. The 9/11 attackers (from Saudi Arabia, UAE, and various other countries that Obama hasn't bombed and Trump hasn't banned) showed up at the airports with new haircuts, a fresh shave, a button-down shirt, slacks, etc. They looked like any other person. Adding a years-old actively-maintained fake Facebook account to that disguise isn't exactly the work of a criminal mastermind, it's just more security theater for the government to act like they're protecting something when they only thing they're doing is slowly rolling back rights.

      Most Americans live in a bubble and have no clue how the immigration process works, or even the tourist process. We would probably be meaningful change happen to those systems if every other country in the world started treating Americans the same way that their own citizens get treated when they try to come here. When you get denied entry to Europe because your Facebook account isn't convincing enough then maybe you'll start looking for real solutions.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    57. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, crap. That's actually in Brazilian law... I guess we are either going to get less American tourists, or a lot of useless social media passwords that will be immediately sold by some less than honest individual to the underground.

    58. Re:WTF? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      But one reason for this is undoubtedly San Bernardino, where Tasfeen Malik used her personal page to promote Jihad

      Comey specified that she was communicating with her husband via private messages, she did not post publicly about it. Presumably that's why they want passwords, so that they can review private messages. Again, that's not going to stop a dedicated attacker.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    59. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yea, Americans have drones and contractors for that kind of stuff.

    60. Re:WTF? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Refusal to provide at least some social media would probably be viewed as failure to comply and result in a rejection of the applicant.

      Which is stupid, because now you're adding a new arbitrary requirement to come to the US. Now if people want to come to the US they need to be active on social media. That's a stupid requirement.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    61. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got it. So because a method can be adapted to be gamed in the future, its not effective now? Whew..

    62. Re:WTF? by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      Anytime a computer or device is seized, the person in possession potentially has "WRITE access". Sometimes you can't access a phone or other device without write access. That's ok as long as you document it and can explain why you didn't/couldn't use read only or write blocking technology.

    63. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd reallly like to see another country demand Trump's Twitter password...

    64. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the same password on my luggage...

    65. Re:WTF? by elvesrus · · Score: 1

      I believe you mean "alternative facts"

    66. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need to wait, nobody wants to visit your facsist shithole of a cuntry.

    67. Re:WTF? by Plammox · · Score: 1

      *Golf clap* I totally agree. As soon as traveling Americans start blowing people up or trying to murder innocent people abroad for having different religious views.

      Yeah, because that's exactly what all Norwegians, Lithuanians, Polish and Luxembourgish do.

      Besides, you still fostered T. McVeigh, and are a nation of gun nutters with a proven questionable judgement with the recent election of your clown president. Why shouldn't we protect ourselves against the likes of you?

    68. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... anal pattern photographs ...

      On the bright side, they can check there isn't a bomb in one's underwear at the same time. Forget iris scanning, bring in anus scanning

    69. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me too,

      Oh no, we're not letting AOL users in at all. Have to draw the line somewhere.

    70. Re:WTF? by praxis · · Score: 1

      If you travel to the US from Europe, the US requests your police, financial, and surveillance records from your home country. In that case, they don't need your social media accounts, because that contains everything from your political affiliations to the terms of endearment you use with your Swedish mistress.

      Do you have a citation for this?

    71. Re:WTF? by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      I suggest your evaluation of the intelligence of the border security agents might not match up with public perception of same.

    72. Re:WTF? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Border security does not need evidence, most border situations resolve by allowing the applicant to voluntarily withdraw, and take the next plane home. Others are resolved by just denying entry, and holding the individual until the next plane home is ready to go. Neither involve a court case. Court cases are only used when they find 50 K of cocaine shoved up someones rectum.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    73. Re:WTF? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Since 9/11, the US has become quite hostile to scientific conferences. If more and more of them are held outside the US, that's not good for the country.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    74. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      For student, business, and immigrant visas, police records and financial documents are part of the process; DHS can now request many of them directly from some foreign governments (that's a convenience; in the past you had to supply them yourself).

      For visa-free travel, it's fuzzier. Here is the official statement:

      https://www.ustravel.org/sites...

      Note that they are performing "advance vetting" and "data sharing". They don't tell you the precise nature of the data they share or use, but from past cases and decisions, it's likely it includes criminal records, some kinds of financial data, and some intelligence data.

    75. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides, if they get password access how can they use ANYTHING they find as evidence of anything?

      Since when as the FBI/DHS ever worried about maintaining an evidence chain? They routinely perjure themselves on the stand using parallel reconstruction to phony up an evidence chain on illegally acquired or flat out FBI manufactured evidence.

    76. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Besides, if they get password access how can they use ANYTHING they find as evidence of anything?

      It doesn't really matter to them. They are security and not law enforcement. It's not as someone they throw out of the country can take them to court without dealing with a lot of obstructions on the way so they usually do not answer to a court.
      Another reason to have some professionals doing the job instead of one step below mall cops.

    77. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      What a waste of time and resources

      It demonstrates that "something has been done".
      IMHO the entire TSA is a waste of time and resources. They took the equivalent of the lowest bidder in the airport security business, vastly increased the size and then added the libertarian's nightmare of government bloat (IMHO). In more polite and informative terms without the reference to rapiscan corruption and so on there's this podcast and transcript:
      http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/safety-in-the-skies-%E2%80%93-the-story-of-aviation-security/8005092

    78. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      "You've been denied access to the United States because your Facebook account is only three months old and likes boring stuff."

      Remember how an entire Boeing 747 load of people were diverted to another airport to teach Cat Stevens a lesson for converting to Islam?
      The TSA is arbitrary and not held responsible for their actions and is not known for disciplining screeners who take extreme actions. I can see the above happening if it in some way makes a mall cop reject think it is out of the ordinary.

    79. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      My password is 12345

      Lock him up! He knows what we changed the launch code to for Trump!

    80. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Some place offered to give me a discount if I "liked" them on Facebook so that's one reason to have an almost empty account.
      I then attempted to use it to keep track of tour dates etc for a band, entirely useless, only a portion of the bands posts made it through unblocked because that band with a low income didn't have a commercial account.

    81. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Not the same as the other visa issue. It's not the seven special countries. It's all of them - UK, Canada, the lot.

    82. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      At least bother reading the announcement!

      Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly told Congress on Tuesday the measure was one of several being considered to vet refugees and visa applicants from seven Muslim-majority countries.

    83. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Perhaps an older article will help bring you up to speed:
      https://www.theguardian.com/te...
      Even better for your sake - due to it's age you can use it to blame Obama if it's introduced under Trump!

    84. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Look, RTFA, that tells you what they are considering it for today; that is (surprise) the Obama and Trump administrations are considering slightly different policies.

      In any case, I hope Trump will not adopt this: people who can't provide enough official documentation should simply be banned altogether, except under special circumstances (e.g. US military translators). No futzing around with social media profiles.

    85. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, but this had been discussed for quite a while and those are nowhere near the only two articles on the topic.
      When you said it was only being considered for seven countries I pointed out that it is also being considered for a general case.

    86. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      It was "considered for the general case" in that any traveler from a country without adequate record keeping might be able to use it. Right now, there are seven such countries.

      But the average EU citizen with a good police record, no intelligence record, and a steady job won't need a social media profile, for all the obvious reasons that every Slashdot nerd keeps repeating... over... and... over... again.

    87. Re:WTF? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There are tens of thousands of active radicals/terrorists in those countries who are actively committing acts of violence. That none of them have successfully committed an attack on US soil recently is only for lack of opportunity.

      Entirely true, but there's an implication you don't seem to see. Where does this "lack of opportunity": you speak of come from? As long as America remains great, there will be large numbers of irrational radicals trying to do horrible things to us, so that hasn't changed. The only reason they aren't killing us in noticeable numbers is that they're over there and we're over here, and whatever we're doing to keep that up is working.

      I'm not personally worried about man-eating tigers, terrorists, or venomous snakes, because there aren't any where I live, and what the government is doing to ensure that is working. As far as my safety goes, I'd get much better results with the government working harder to prevent drunk and distracted driving, because that's an actual current threat where I live.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    88. Re:WTF? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That handcuffed 5-year-old picture going on was not an immigration picture as claimed, but inexcusable brutality in a school, from what I've been able to learn about it. Still, I believe there are bad immigration officers, just as I believe the TSA has bad employees, despite my personal experience with them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    89. Re:WTF? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Damn, I've got to get my patent application for that in before you file. Then I can see if it would actually work.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    90. Re:WTF? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      As soon as traveling Americans start blowing people up or trying to murder innocent people abroad for having different religious views.

      I've got news for you: it happens a lot. The reasons are of course sugar-coated for internal consumption.

      What we do is get influence in other countries by various methods, not always above-board. We support brutal dictatorships. Then, when people there get too uppity, we bomb them.

      It's the rough equivalent of being annoying to someone, talking over them, poking them with sticks, and getting them angry enough to throw a punch, so we shoot them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    91. Re:WTF? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You don't understand. The default is set by us, and if you're referring to Trump's EO of questionable legality just now. It's like jacking up the price of medicine and giving discounts to not much over the previous price to people who do what we want.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    92. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      The default is set by us,

      Yes, and the default for a century has been not to admit people unless we can be reasonably certain that they don't pose a threat and that they leave again.

      you're referring to Trump's EO of questionable legality just now

      Stop repeating that bullshit. Trump's EO is neither of "questionable legality", nor is it any different from what other presidents have done before him.

      Take it from an actual immigrant: people get stuck outside the US because of something the executive branch all the time.

    93. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      without adequate record keeping

      That's not really the reason. IMHO they would be looking for the equivalent of the "drunken pirate" costume party Facebook post that resulted in a teacher being sacked - something that makes the poster look bad is an excuse to block someone at an airport and thus show that the TSA is doing something.

      Also there are a vast number of countries "without adequate record keeping". Even heavily developed countries have a non-trivial number of people that fell through the documentation cracks until the 1970s and a few afterwards. Not every child is born in a hospital.
      Perhaps you should consider that while you are arguing about an increasingly irrelevant suspended executive order some others here are discussing this issue of the TSA looking at social media in a broader context that has been in the press for around a year at least.

    94. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 0

      That's not really the reason. IMHO they would be looking for the equivalent of the "drunken pirate" costume party Facebook post that resulted in a teacher being sacked - something that makes the poster look bad is an excuse to block someone at an airport and thus show that the TSA is doing something.

      I'm sorry, but you still just aren't getting it. Contrary to the recent Democratic delusions, they don't need "excuses" to deny anyone entry, they can just deny it.

      Also there are a vast number of countries "without adequate record keeping". Even heavily developed countries have a non-trivial number of people that fell through the documentation cracks until the 1970s and a few afterwards.

      Well, and those people are also denied entry, no matter where they are from.

      Perhaps you should consider that while you are arguing about an increasingly irrelevant suspended executive order

      The executive order will be reinstated.

      some others here are discussing this issue of the TSA looking at social media in a broader context that has been in the press for around a year at least.

      Well, and I am making the same kinds of comments now as I did a year ago, because obviously a lot of people still don't understand what the point of checking social networks is.

      Of course, I'm happy if people oppose the use of social networks in visa processing for any reason, because eliminating it ends up making the criteria for admission more strict.

    95. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      they can just deny it.

      Looks like I've caught you at a time when you are not at your best. Despite the mismanagement of the TSA do you really think screeners can just arbitrarily turn people away without giving a reason to their bosses? You didn't think that through before posting did you?

      Democratic delusions

      For fucks sake try again when you are sober or restless or something - that is just embarrassing.

      Put yourself in the shoes of those who are getting their accounts looked at because there is a good chance that it may end up being a blanket policy and you or the people you care about may be subjected to it.

    96. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump found 00000 too simple?

    97. Re:WTF? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      If more and more of them are held outside the US, that's not good for the country.

      Oh, it is good for the country. It's not good for the US, but for the rest of the world, and the countries to which these conferences are diverted, it is definitely good. Canada can certainly see this and a re looking set fair to clean up as much as they can from this pro-Canada move of POTUS.

      What is is about the Americans on Slashdot who think that only Americans are on Slashdot.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    98. Re:WTF? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Would normal handcuffs close down far enough to restrain a 5yo's hands? I rather doubt it. Which makes the whole story rather suspect. (This is the first I've head of it. I assume it is just a piece of American news which hasn't been let out of the country.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    99. Re:WTF? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      , but the problem there is that, because of the newness of the requirement, the media profile would have a telltale of only just being created recently.

      There is almost certainly already a marketplace in sufficiently established social media profiles.

      Plus, of course, there would be nothing unusual about me offering my VKontakt profile because I don't do Facebook. My Russian is probably a lot better than the DHS goon's Russian. (Almost no one in Russia uses Facebook because almost no one in Russia uses Facebook.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    100. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Despite the mismanagement of the TSA do you really think screeners can just arbitrarily turn people away without giving a reason to their bosses?

      They can give a reason: "This person did not provide sufficient documentation that..."

      Put yourself in the shoes of those who are getting their accounts looked at

      I was in those shoes, for a couple of decades (that's how long legal immigration often takes in the US), and I have been online all that time. I had zero problem with INS/DHS wanting to look at my online presence, and I made sure that whenever I traveled, my online information matched my real world information, including being listed on my employer's external web page when possible.

      because there is a good chance that it may end up being a blanket policy

      You already worked out, all by yourself, why that would be unreliable for finding terrorists: people with nefarious motives simply create a harmless looking social media account. Where your logic goes off the rails is that you then infer "therefore DHS is staffed by idiots and the whole thing is a fascist plot hatched by Trump's white nationalists" or something like that.

      If you're a technocrat, it's reasonable thing for DHS to try to do in order to maximize the number of people they can safely admit, in particular from failed countries. That is why, as you observed yourself, this crap started during the Obama administration: they wanted to let more people in, as opposed to keeping people out. And I have no doubt that they would ask every traveler for their social media profile because such a system would use machine learning and they would need "labeled training data" for that. They may also catch some careless terrorists in the process and deny some entries based on negative information in social networks, but that's not the point, for the reasons you have already worked out for yourself.

      I love the fact that current liberals still have a little bit of the old reflexes where they don't want government looking at private information (I wish they had that more often, say, with financial and medical information, which they blithely want to send to Washington), and I agree: ban the use of social networks for immigration decisions. Where you err is in thinking that banning the use of social networks results in a less restrictive admission policy, instead of a more restrictive one. Without non-governmental information sources, almost nobody from places like Yemen or Somalia can be admitted.

    101. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      therefore DHS is staffed by idiots and the whole thing is a fascist plot hatched by Trump's white nationalists"

      It doesn't have to be a fascist plot to be an incredibly stupid idea that adds a major new risk to travel to the USA. Getting thrown out for saying something bad about whoever is in power or saying something good about their pet hates, even as a joke.

      because such a system would use machine learning

      Oh what fun - it sees "hydraulic ram" and reports something about a water sheep - you've just added an extra layer of incompetence to an already stupid and intrusive idea.

      That is why, as you observed yourself, this crap started during the Obama administration

      I didn't vote for him or Hillary either so how about avoiding stupid and irrelevant cheap shots. This looks like the TSA exploiting an opportunity to get hold of more taxpayers money instead of something from the executive branch.

      Without non-governmental information sources, almost nobody from places

      Do you even believe that silly excuse yourself? If so you are almost the only one because the people who dreamed it up don't believe it and are say that excuse as a blatant lie. It's not to "help" people - social media as evidence to allow someone into a country - how fucking ridiculous. Please stop insulting me by thinking I'm stupid enough to fall for that if you just keep on repeating it over and over and over.

    102. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once upon a time I thought the people who talk about governments of ostensibly 'free' nations having their citizens chipped or bar-coded was the fantasy of conspiracy theorists.

      Actually it has already happened. It's called a smart phone. Best surveillance tool ever made.

    103. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      The threats around the world are constantly evolving and changing. We have been getting a decent track record so far at keeping the terrorists out, but in 2001 we screwed the pooch and just 19 terrorists killed 3000 people and caused $3 trillion in damage and loss of life. If we let in 100,000 refugees and our screening process is 99.9% effective, that means we let in 100 terrorists. If they carry out similarly effective attacks, we are looking at 15,000 dead and $15 trillion dollars in damage. It would effectively destroy our economy for years. The margin for error on the screening of immigrants from Islamist countries must be zero or it makes no sense to invite them in. Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations must be forced to get off their asses and use their UN military troops to create safe zones for civilians, which they should have done years ago. The US can easily provide food and shelter for these civilian refugees at no risk to our population. We can then use our military in cooperation with the Russians and Asad to turn ISIS into a fine red mist and then these refugees can go home.

      Letting in refugees from Syria and Iraq and the other 7 countries right now is like if the US had let in 100,000 Japanese civilians, 2:1 male to live in the general US population in 1943 by simply asking them if they were pro American. It would have been suicidal and insane and there probably would have been thousands of Japanese spies and saboteurs mixed in and it probably would have destroyed the US if we had done that.

      http://www.politico.com/magazi...

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    104. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      It is hardly arbitrary. People spend much of their time these days on social media. FB alone has 1,860,000,000 users. That is a pretty big chunk of the modernized world population. If the federal government had had access to the San Bernadino shooters FB account when she was screened to enter the US, she would never have gotten in and her husband would have been flagged.

      They don't have to be active on social media, but it adds another layer of screening that we can do for potential immigrants. And those without accounts will likely be screened that much more closely.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    105. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Regarding buying a social media account, I highly doubt that only the forward facing part of the account is being evaluated by the feds. I would expect DHS to also get a FISA warrant/signed waiver from the applicant if you are coming from a dangerous country and they will look through the IP logs on the account from Facebook server side. If all of the logs are from one region and then suddenly they switch to the region that you are trying to immigrate from, you will likely get denied and maybe black bagged as well to see why you tried to deceive you way into the US.

      Yes, there are ways to conceal/spoof etc, and screening/hunting terrorists is always a game of cat and mouse, but the point is to not take potential data sources off of the table, especially when terrorists who want to murder our children in their beds are operating in those countries...

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    106. Re:WTF? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      especially when terrorists who want to murder our children in their beds are operating ...

      But America elected those terrorists to their positions of power.

      Who would need to spoof the IP logs for a social media profile? You buy one that has been generated from your home city, or near enough. If people can make money generating fake news of the most ludicrous sort in the last year, then the 5-year old plus market for fake clicks, fake "likes" etc would have had people generating thousands of fake profiles years ago. After that, it takes little to maintain sufficient profile to pass casual inspection. Anything more than casual inspection would be extremely costly for the border police. A pre-visa inspection using the multiple warrants you're talking about will just add billions more to the bills of the border police (all those lawyers are going to want paid, before doing the work) and simply guarantee that only the best funded and forensically aware terrorists make the approach. The only ones that would get caught are the incompetents and "lone wolves" that aren't any real threat. "Security Theatre" is what it has been described as for years, and this is another act in the distraction joke.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    107. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Getting thrown out for saying something bad about whoever is in power or saying something good about their pet hates, even as a joke.

      Well, look, it's obvious that you are going to cling to this delusion no matter what I say.

      Please stop insulting me by thinking I'm stupid

      You keep proving that you are stupid, for example by failing to make a single coherent argument.

    108. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Well, look, it's obvious that you are going to cling to this delusion no matter what I say.

      As distinct from the TSA "helping people" by logging onto their social media accounts? I really do not think I am the deluded one here and I'm not really sure why you are going to such ridiculous lengths to defend the TSA.

      You were very vocal before about Google disclosing employee details. Why are you defending the TSA getting a vast amount more personal information to build up profiles of potentially everyone passing through an airport?

    109. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Why are you defending the TSA getting a vast amount more personal information to build up profiles of potentially everyone passing through an airport?

      I am not "defending the TSA" at all. I think the TSA should cut this crap, simply ban nationals from countries like Yemen and Somalia from entering the US altogether.

    110. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      That is a separate issue.
      We appear to be discussing two totally different things.
      Perhaps you should look briefly at the first few lines of the news story from early last year that I linked to.

      I very much doubt that this is intended to be for only those 7 countries where social media use is vanishingly low anyway. That makes zero sense to only apply there.

    111. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      We appear to be discussing two totally different things.

      The fact that you can't stay on topic isn't my fault. You dragged in some bogus Google-vs-TSA comparison and accused me of "defending the TSA". I'm not "defending the TSA"; I think the policy is stupid, just for different reasons than you do.

      I very much doubt that this is intended to be for only those 7 countries where social media use is vanishingly low anyway. That makes zero sense to only apply there.

      Well, and your assertion that this is done for the purpose of finding reasons to deny people entry also makes zero sense, for the obvious reason that people simply can create fake social network profiles. The only way the policy makes sense is if you interpret it my way.

    112. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      just for different reasons than you do

      Very strange ones about the TSA "helping people" by looking at the private portions of their social media accounts. I just don't get it.

      The only way the policy makes sense is if you interpret it my way.

      I do not think so. In my opinion it only makes sense if they wish to build up a dossier on each visitor or if they want a flimsy excuse to reject people to match a quota and show that the TSA is "working" by throwing out a large number of "potential terrorists".
      Personally I think the entire low rent bunch should be replaced by the sort of professional airport security that is done in Israel. in the long run it would cost less than that massive welfare system that is the TSA. I don't know if I linked this before but it's worth a look or listen:
      http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/safety-in-the-skies-%E2%80%93-the-story-of-aviation-security/7721242

    113. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      if they want a flimsy excuse to reject people to match a quota and show that the TSA is "working" by throwing out a large number of "potential terrorists".

      Look, we were originally discussing immigration. A few articles above, you then just switched to the TSA for no good reason. Do you even understand the difference between TSA and immigration?

      Very strange ones about the TSA "helping people" by looking at the private portions of their social media accounts. I just don't get it.

      Well, one of your problems is perhaps that you are confusing immigration and security. Another problem may be that (I believe) you have never actually been a immigrant to the US. Take it from someone who has been: as a legal immigrant to the US, my status was that of a petitioner and guest of the US, not as someone who could demand entry. Entry into the US is not a right, it is a privilege that is granted selectively and discriminatively.

      I do not think so. In my opinion it only makes sense if they wish to build up a dossier on each visitor

      As far as I can tell, immigration agents have a record of every border crossing and every answer non-citizens have given them in the past, plus numerous other sources of information.

      Personally I think the entire low rent bunch should be replaced by the sort of professional airport security that is done in Israel.

      You mean the kind of professional airport security that asks for access to private portions of social media profiles and the kind of immigration agents that deny entry to HIV positive visitors? The kind of immigration agents that wave elderly Jewish couples through security, while being hostile to any Arabs or Muslims?

      Israeli security officials have also on occasion requested access to travelers’ personal e-mail accounts or other social media accounts as a condition of entry. In such circumstances, travelers should have no expectation of privacy for any data stored on such devices or in their accounts.

      Some U.S. citizens of Arab or Muslim heritage have experienced significant difficulties and unequal and hostile treatment at Israel’s borders and checkpoints

      https://travel.state.gov/conte...

    114. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Well, and that's just the kind of "professional airport security that is done in Israel." Isn't that what you wanted?

      Note that it's also legal and nothing particularly new under US law, as even the EFF realizes:

      https://www.eff.org/wp/defendi...

      Isn't it funny how all this crap was acceptable to progressives under Obama but isn't anymore under Trump?

      If you want to change this, change the law; stop using it for partisan purposes?

    115. Re:WTF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Isn't it funny how all this crap was acceptable to progressives under Obama

      Nice strawman you are building in my name, again, but no, I didn't think it was a good idea last year either AS THE LINK I PROVIDED ABOVE FROM LAST YEAR CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED MANY POSTS AGO.

    116. Re:WTF? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Nice strawman you are building in my name, again, but no, I didn't think it was a good idea last year either

      I didn't say it was YOUR idea, I made a point about progressives IN GENERAL.

    117. Re:WTF? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      People spend much of their time these days on social media.

      Some people do.

      FB alone has 1,860,000,000 users. That is a pretty big chunk of the modernized world population.

      That's about a quarter of the world.

      They don't have to be active on social media

      So why make it a requirement then? Isn't this just security theater, where it's only the illusion of security. If the San Bernardino shooter knew that her account was going to be inspected, wouldn't she have prepared for that?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    118. Re:WTF? by praxis · · Score: 1

      Thanks.

    119. Re:WTF? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      She might have tried to delete content, but, depending on how that content is controlled, it might not be possible for her to permanently delete all records of the content from FB servers or the record that one day she came in right before applying to enter the US and purged a bunch of posts...

      There are a lot of assumptions floating around, and I guess my bottom line position is that I want every tool possible, including any and all online behavior, available to the investigators who are vetting people from countries rife with radical islam. It doesn't mean that each tool will be 100% effective in every case, but it is just very poor judgement to leave investigative tools on the table because sometimes they won't be effective and can be thwarted in certain hypothetical examples. The fact was that the San Bernadino shooter did have a lot of radical posts on her FB and that would have kept her out of the US had it been known.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    120. Re:WTF? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I guess my bottom line position is that I want every tool possible, including any and all online behavior, available to the investigators who are vetting people from countries rife with radical islam.

      I understand that. I tend to value the Bill Of Rights and the things that it explicitly provides, and I note that it is not restricted to American citizens. It is much more difficult to try to get your rights back than it is to keep them in the first place. The fourth has been in decline for at least the past 16 years and at some point we need to stop the decline and strengthen it again. Saying that it's OK to put aside our rights when it involves security, or radical whatever, is leading down a path that is difficult to stop.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  3. What's stopping other countries? by gtall · · Score: 2

    Maybe other countries will demand the same thing. I can see el Presidente Tweety giving up his password in the name of security.

    1. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its simple, more and more people are now avoiding the USA.

      If I need to fly to Europe from New Zealand I now go through Hong Kong or one of the other non-us routes. This is now the preferred method for all staff as the risks of IT devices (computers/phones/etc) being compromised at the US boarder is now considered too high.

      There is also a growing preference for equipment from the EU as any training will be outside of the US too.

      The US is slowly but surely shitting in its own nest.

      I know personally, for family holidays we will no longer consider the USA, there is a great big world out there to see, and currently the USA and its policies places it a long way down the list of places to visit.

    2. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Kagato · · Score: 1

      Other countries do. In particular Canadian border officials have a habit of asking the same thing. In the US however CPB is actually asking people to commit a Felony.

    3. Re:What's stopping other countries? by The-Ixian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would love to see this happen.

      Just wait for the entitled Americans to cry to their government reps about how they are being treated like garbage.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    4. Re:What's stopping other countries? by unixisc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You make it sound like that is a bad thing. If people who don't like the US avoid the US, that's one of the desirable outcomes, the attempts of Dem AGs notwithstanding.

    5. Re:What's stopping other countries? by TimothyHollins · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ahh, I see. So the plan is to make the US such a terrible place that no-one will want to go there? Now it finally makes sense.

      Just a heads up, you might want to look into Somalia, they appear to have attempted a similar approach.

    6. Re: What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is fantastic news.

      The point of this is to stop the teat-sucking leeches of the world who have turned their own homes into shitholes, or self-invaded with armies of migrants, from coming to the US and fucking it up as well.

      We've seen what can happen, such as with Chicago, Orlando, Nice, and Paris. Stay the fuck out, and burn in the hell you've built for yourselves.

    7. Re:What's stopping other countries? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      Maybe other countries will demand the same thing. I can see el Presidente Tweety giving up his password in the name of security.

      He's already given up his password - to the staffers who tweet in his name in an effort to make him seem intelligent and literate.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    8. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      God you're a retard. GP obviously meant that people who previously felt neutral or positive about the US will now avoid it like the plague. Perhaps you should talk to some international business types or tourist industry employees and see if they agree with your 'the world can fuck off' attitude.

      And BTW I'm someone who would have visited the US as it was a few years back and spent maybe $10000+. Not now.

    9. Re:What's stopping other countries? by gtall · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the plan is to tell Americans they are safe by banning people who have no record of doing naughty things in America, and that do not have Trump properties in their homelands.

      One thing you have to consider when observing this Administration, nothing is connected. One policy might yang the yin out of some issue, another might yin the yang out of the same issue.

      Also, knock-on effects are not considered because there's no way the head guys can keep two ideas in their heads at the same time. Case in point, the last Yemen raid by American Special Forces. The previous administration tried to think through the effects if something went wrong. The current administration would rather shoot first and aim later. The result: Yemen said no more of those.

      Another case in point: American ban on Iraqis coming to the U.S. Iraq's Parliament is considering legislation banning Americans, and the Iraqis fighting and dying to attack Daesh are looking at the Americans and wondering why they should bother. Trumpets blaring about taking Iraqi oil tell them that the American administration has no respect for Iraqis. End result, decreased cooperation against Daesh, and possibly support for aggression against the U.S. after Daesh goes down the rat hole.

      And the Administration rhetoric has given that little twit Ayatollah running Iran a gift claiming the Administration is showing America's true face.

      Wanting to put China in its place, they did the opposite of rally Asian nations against China hegemony by pulling out of TPP thus pushing those countries closer to China. And whining about cheap Mexican labor and labor standards, they decided pulling out of the TPP would be a good idea, however it would have increased wages and standards for Mexicans.

      Claiming the Mexican hordes are climbing over the borders (they aren't), they give every indication of starting a trade war with Mexico thus lowering the Mexican economy and making it likely to increase the pressure on Mexicans to squirrel under the new stupid wall to get into the U.S.

    10. Re:What's stopping other countries? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      Ahh, I see. So the plan is to make the US such a terrible place that no-one will want to go there? Now it finally makes sense.

      Just a heads up, you might want to look into Somalia, they appear to have attempted a similar approach.

      This keeps happening to me here lately - I end up laughing out loud at a comment which is also penetrating and insightful. Well played sir!

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    11. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      risks of IT devices (computers/phones/etc) being compromised at the US boarder

      I am guessing the misspelling is unintentional, but I just imagined a US customs agent in a Blackbeard-style pirate outfit commandeering all of your IT devices and laughed and cried a little on the inside at the same time.

    12. Re:What's stopping other countries? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      I know personally, for family holidays we will no longer consider the USA, there is a great big world out there to see, and currently the USA and its policies places it a long way down the list of places to visit.

      I've been reluctant for quite some time now to visit the US. With the latest developments, both my girlfriend and I have decided not to go there at all, and not to fly anywhere whose route takes us through American airspace. It's too bad though; we used to visit Frankenmuth with her mom once a year on a shopping trip - not anymore. And a couple of years ago she introduced me to New Orleans, which I absolutely loved, and would visit again in a heartbeat if America was still a nation under the rule of law. It makes me sad that I may never go back.

      I'm also into rollerskating, but there aren't many roller rinks here in Canada, and I had hoped to spend some time in the States where there's a big skating culture and lots of awesome skaters. But by the time it seems safe to cross the border again, (if it ever does), I may be too old to bother. Too bad for the places south of the border where we would have spent our money, but so much the better for some other countries, I guess.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    13. Re:What's stopping other countries? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      Other countries do. In particular Canadian border officials have a habit of asking the same thing. In the US however CPB is actually asking people to commit a Felony.

      Citation please. I'm Canadian and I have never heard this before, either in news stories or from the people we know from other countries who have visited here. Not saying it hasn't happened; if it has, I really want to know the details.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    14. Re:What's stopping other countries? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 0

      *Golf clap*
      I totally agree. As soon as traveling Americans start blowing people up or trying to murder innocent people abroad for having different religious views it would make total sense for other countries to require access to Americans social media. Until then you may want to educate yourself on the past 40 years of Islamic terrorism, as this topic is apparently beyond your capacity/knowledge to participate in.

      That smart ass comment might get you a +4 interesting on /. but in the real world it is irrational bullshit.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    15. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      I am looking forward to Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal becoming the new North American travel hubs. Of course flying around the USA will be a bit of a challenge.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    16. Re: What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure how much this helps but there is a Canadian border patrol show. They show officers checking phones and laptops, reading texts and emails, all the time.

    17. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I was there our family spent about $20,000 on accommodation, food, taxis, sight seeing, clothes, airline tickets, etc etc etc

      That money can be spent elsewhere, and will be.

    18. Re: What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We call those traveling Americans, 'Marines.'

    19. Re:What's stopping other countries? by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      I would love to see this happen.

      Just wait for the entitled Americans to cry to their government reps about how they are being treated like garbage.

      Again, this applies only to NON-US citizens. Did you even read TFA?!

      --
      We'll make great pets
    20. Re:What's stopping other countries? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      the US boarder

      Goddamn pet peeve. A boarder is someone who boards. Countries have borders. We have a border patrol, not a boarder patrol, regardless of the handwritten notes I see in support of the border patrol in border towns.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    21. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh, I see. So the plan is to make the US such a terrible place that no-one will want to go there?

      That is basically the Republican end-game, and has been for decades. Not just with borders, but education, infrastructure, jobs -- everything. Just let everything crumble due to neglect. Or if that doesn't work, go to sabotage. When everything sucks, the "undesirables" will wander off in search of greener pastures. Then when only the "right" people remain and everyone else is walled out, build everything back up into the glory that could never have been achieved with all those nasty "others" and their complications.

    22. Re:What's stopping other countries? by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      Given friends like the current America most countries would do themselves a favor by finding someone else to be friends with.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    23. Re:What's stopping other countries? by CanadianRealist · · Score: 1

      claiming the Administration is showing America's true face

      Sounds like a very reasonable claim considering that the president that the American people elected is doing exactly what he promised he would do.

    24. Re: What's stopping other countries? by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      Hundreds of American businesses that have their products manufactured in Mexico will go tits up with Trumps tariffs. I hope you work for one of them. Also all these countries out here with single payer health care pay a lot less and have a higher life expectancy than you do. I think you must be suffering from Stockholm syndrome in your nasty prison state.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    25. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You avoid the USA by going to China, because you are worried about devices being compromised?
      Do you avoid lakes by driving into the sea?

    26. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Tom · · Score: 1

      Its simple, more and more people are now avoiding the USA.

      So true. Haven't been to the US in 20 years, despite plenty of reasons to go there, including conferences, other business, and even an invitation from top level oil company management.

      Lots of Europeans are avoiding the US now, and Green Cards are not so much sought after as they used to be. Do you know where the US remains to be popular, ironically? Russia. A lot of middle class Russians dream about going to the US.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    27. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... we will no longer consider the USA ...

      Which may be why during the last year there have been so many package holidays to the USA; the latest demographic is single women looking for a travel buddy. Plus, now there are adverts for US lotto in my country, which don't warn players that the prize is tax-liable and paid over 20 years.

    28. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are missing that there's a difference between not liking the US and not liking the current administration. As OP (and clearly, many more) my entire family has been avoiding the US on principle since Jan 20th.
      Sure, not the longest time, but being both a large mexican family and thankfully, rather well-off, it's a lot of money spent on other countries (skiing is not cheap, shopping is fun, and foodies tend to splurge)

    29. Re:What's stopping other countries? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The people who DO like the US are also avoiding it. Not such a desirable outcome.

    30. Re:What's stopping other countries? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      No problem - the US has a large water boarder. Several I'm sure.
      Back when this site started I had no idea that a North Korean torture technique would be condoned by US administrations.

    31. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China does not search devices upon entry. Or pull any of the shenanigans the US makes its guests go through, really.

    32. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize who made Somalia that way right?

    33. Re: What's stopping other countries? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I've seen it but never really watched - next time it's on I'll pay closer attention.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    34. Re:What's stopping other countries? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      People who are against the US keeping itself safe can shove their 'liking' up their hiney!!!

    35. Re:What's stopping other countries? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      It's a matter of opinion. Half of people would consider not liking the US as equivalent to not liking the former administration of President Obama. If you consider the US turning a blind eye towards illegal immigration, Jihad and the like good, it may be opposed to the current administration, but it's certainly not liking the US by any sane definition of 'like'

    36. Re:What's stopping other countries? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Enjoy your vacation in Yemen. Or Libya.

    37. Re:What's stopping other countries? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      So why didn't you? We had the most Leftist government in the US in President Obama - more to the left of leaders like Harper and Cameron. So what stopped you? Yeah, I'm sure the tourist industry types are crestfallen that there is no longer lucrative business to be had from tourists from Somalia, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Sudan and Libya.

    38. Re:What's stopping other countries? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      We just completed 8 years of the Obamanation. So what was it that stopped everything from flourishing - be it education, infrastructure, jobs, et al? If it was so great, this election would have been identical to 2008, w/ not only Hilary Clinton getting elected, but Schumer would have become Majority Leader and Pelosi Speaker

    39. Re:What's stopping other countries? by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      I would love to see this happen.

      Just wait for the entitled Americans to cry to their government reps about how they are being treated like garbage.

      Again, this applies only to NON-US citizens. Did you even read TFA?!

      Did you read TFPPHWRT (parent post he was responding to)?

    40. Re:What's stopping other countries? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      US citizens sometimes want to travel to other countries, and will face reciprocal treatment there. Brazil, for example, instituted the fingerprints of US citizens entering Brazil. Expect US citizens to be denied entrance to countries when they don't share social media passwords.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    41. Re:What's stopping other countries? by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      Don't lump all Americans together. I'm American and I'd also love to see this happen. My government has no justification for treating people this badly without any real security benefit.

    42. Re:What's stopping other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a 'murican, I can assure that we don't want any foreigners coming here to enjoy our fast food chains and amazing cable t.v. and all those other circuses that we have come to see as our birthright. Go see some truly ancient temple or place with real traditions, instead of the grand edifice of " 'murican football' or a 200 year-old farmer's barn.
      #notmissinganything
      #dontblameyouforprotectingyourprivacy

    43. Re:What's stopping other countries? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Do you really think this stunt is about "the US keeping itself safe"?
      If so a few courts disagree with you, but it's going to go to another court. Will you still think so if the Supreme court ends up ruling against the stunt?

      One thing that dramatically demonstrates it was not about keeping the US safe was the Iraqi pilots entering the US to work with the USAF being blocked by it. Another is some translators and other workers who supported US forces being blocked.
      Why should the TSA have the ability to piss all over the Pentagon and everyone else?
      It's about Trump getting attention. The USA is a secondary consideration if not even lower priority.

    44. Re:What's stopping other countries? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      The court that just halted it has a record of being overturned 4 out of 5 times in the Supreme Court. The President does have absolute power here. Trump gets attention when he goes to the restroom, and people on his side have been dismayed that he's been stepping on positive stories, such as the tax cut yesterday. As for the translators and the pilots, exemptions can be granted, but there have been cases of translators being caught being spies for the enemy.

    45. Re:What's stopping other countries? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The President does have absolute power here

      It's not Russia yet.

      As for the translators and the pilots, exemptions can be granted

      It had to be thought of after the artificial emergency instead of exemptions included in the original order which is what a competent leader would do.

      Let's see how this goes in the Supreme Court - we could have a record for the shortest amount of time before breaking the oath of office if it's declared that he acted unconstitutionally.

  4. Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enable LOGIN APPROVALS

    They cannot log in without a mobile )

    1. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by Jhon · · Score: 1

      Um... TFA said "We want to get on their social media, with passwords".

      What you suggest will not allow them to "get on their social media". It's the same as telling them to go pound sand.

    2. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by tepples · · Score: 1

      Enjoy paying 10 cents to your carrier to receive an SMS every time you log in.

    3. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by arth1 · · Score: 2

      Enjoy paying 10 cents to your carrier to receive an SMS every time you log in.

      These are people travelling to the US. Not Americans.
      Outside the US, people generally don't pay to receive; only to send.

    4. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by johannesg · · Score: 1

      That just means you can't enter the country without a mobile.

    5. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10 cents for *each* text?!? Your country is fried.

    6. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are people travelling to the US. Not Americans.

      exactly. they'll have to pay roaming charges.

    7. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paying to receive an SMS?

    8. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait hold up, what?
      Paying to receive an SMS or phone call is what we call roaming charges, are you saying US peeps have that INSIDE their own country?!

    9. Re:Enable LOGIN APPROVALS by tepples · · Score: 1

      If neither side has a monthly unmetered SMS plan, a text message from one cell phone in the United States costs twenty cents, split evenly between the sender and recipient. If only one side has a monthly unmetered SMS plan, only the other side pays its ten cent toll. If both sides have a monthly unmetered SMS plan, there is no toll.

  5. Fake it like my gf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is stopping people creating false social media accounts with benign information and messages and just handing those over?
    This clearly hasn't been thought through.

    1. Re:Fake it like my gf by oobayly · · Score: 1

      Simple - you tell the visa applicant to give the DHS the real accounts and not the benign ones, otherwise they aren't allowed in.

      Seriously though, I haven't logged onto my facebook account for about 18 months now - so that could flag up as being fake. That is if they could find it - I had the security settings locked down so that I can't even find it knowing my name and username.

    2. Re:Fake it like my gf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple - you tell the visa applicant to give the DHS the real accounts and not the benign ones, otherwise they aren't allowed in.

      Seriously though, I haven't logged onto my facebook account for about 18 months now - so that could flag up as being fake. That is if they could find it - I had the security settings locked down so that I can't even find it knowing my name and username.

      Even simpler - Don't have a Facebook or Twitter account. What are they going to do? Make you sign up for one just to get your password?

  6. Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make a new account a few days before you cross, tell them you were not a FB/Twitter/Whatever user beforehand. This is worse than useless because it erodes the rights of honest people while being completely ineffective against those we want to target.

  7. SPECIAL PASSWORD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Disband NATO Deoccupy Europe

  8. Everyone uses real names right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget to create a second account... What a waste of time, money , and effort all in the name of fear. Please wake up people.

  9. Next up in 'Murica by TimothyHollins · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Next up on the hit series "'Murica: Hell yeah!", the orange prez makes a scandalous law - all students are to get daily cavity searches.

    While glove manufacturer stock prices are soaring, Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly tells worried students "If you don't want your rectum searched for contraband, just stay at home.

    God-damn the news are getting entertaining.

    1. Re:Next up in 'Murica by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well... you did see who he picked for education secretary.

    2. Re:Next up in 'Murica by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Next up on the hit series "'Murica: Hell yeah!", the orange prez makes a scandalous law - all students are to get daily cavity searches.

      While glove manufacturer stock prices are soaring, Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly tells worried students "If you don't want your rectum searched for contraband, just stay at home.

      God-damn the news are getting entertaining.

      Again, this rule is being applied to NON-US citizens. This does not apply to American citizens. You're full of shit.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    3. Re:Next up in 'Murica by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      First, they came for the non-US citizens.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  10. My password starts with nonya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is nonya...nonyabizniz. Privacy issue here people.

    1. Re:My password starts with nonya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you will be turned away at the border. Not a big problem if you don't want to enter the USA in the first place, but problematic if you did actually intend on visiting.

  11. Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm not even sure how this is supposed to work. "Do you have any social media accounts?" "No." "Curses, Foiled again!"

    or even worse, "Sure, I'm Anonymous Coward on Slashdot."

    What are *chan users going to report?

    1. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What are *chan users going to report?

      TGFO?

  12. Good Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it should start as soon as possible.
    Social media - like all the media - have developed an evil component.
    Almost every recent terrorist attack on our homeland have used social media.
    Make America Great Again.
    and God bless us all.

    1. Re: Good Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't be afraid amirite?

      I'm waiting for your passwords, you have nothing to hide, have you?

    2. Re:Good Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's quite astonishing to see the distortion of reality the Trump's supporters live in.

      Many visitors come in the US for business reasons because US folks want them to visit, not the other way around. Visitors are not all poor folks from other places willing to do anything to visit this "wonderful" country.

      So yet another stupid security thing to make stupid folks happy and break the country a bit more.

  13. I don't see this going well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So....they get your password. They then use it - as you - to say/send any threat they want, arrest you.....The Aristocrats!

    Also what happens if you don't have a facebook account? Will they bar you for entry because they can't frame you?

    1. Re:I don't see this going well by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      What about 2FA?

      What if you don't know your password (password manager)?

      What if you don't have a social media account?

      All perfectly valid non-edge cases.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    2. Re:I don't see this going well by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      What about 2FA?

      They'll require that you activate the 2FA while they check your accounts. You're waiting in customs or holding or something, so you have nothing better to do, and likely neither do they.

      What if you don't know your password (password manager)?

      Every password manager that I know of allows you to actually look up your real password, so you can write it out for them.

      What if you don't have a social media account?

      Don't be silly, everyone is on Facebook! Liar. But really, "I do not have social media accounts" will be perfectly valid, and the discovery that you lied would be grounds for immediate prosecution and/or expulsion and/or watch-listing.

  14. Uh huh, and then... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

    People will just keep real and fake social media accounts. One for real stuff, and one for border control to ogle.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Uh huh, and then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone does this already right? I don't think anyone should have A facebook account. Everyone should have five!

    2. Re:Uh huh, and then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like we need an Mobile app that automatically generates sets it all up. Could be quite popular.

    3. Re:Uh huh, and then... by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      Reason #238 why this is a stupid and terrible idea.

    4. Re:Uh huh, and then... by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      You are assuming that the feds have no other way to review content on Facebook. Social media may no longer be giving them an all access pass, but anything that is publicly facing is still available, and everything else is still hackable by the CIA/available with a FISA warrant. If we get another terrorist attack like San Bernadino or the Orlando nightclub massacre, unlike the previous president who just shrugged and said "oh well" the current admin will likely bend social media over and ream out every byte of data on every non-citizen person in the US, password or no. Terrorist attacks must not be business as usual, regardless of the approach of the Obama administration.

      If you are found to have a dupe Facebook account in order to deceive the US government for the purpose of entry into the US, I suspect that it will not end well for you and there will be some time spent in federal PMITA prison followed by deportation, if you don't wind up in Gitmo... The risk/reward ratio is not good unless you are trying to get in as a terrorist from the getgo, in which case there will likely be other indicators about your application/interview.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    5. Re:Uh huh, and then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best solution.

      I may have to actually make a fake account and just go with that.
      I don't have any social media accounts whatsoever.

    6. Re:Uh huh, and then... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Exactly what was the government supposed to do about the Orlando terrorist? We knew he was likely to do something like that, but the only thing we could do is keep a 24/7 watch on the guy. How about the Boston Marathon bombing? The Russians flat-out told us that the bombers were bad guys, and to keep an eye on them. What is gathering more data on people we already know are likely to commit terrorism going to do to help? We had all the data we needed in these cases. Violating the privacy of everyone on the planet wasn't going to give us more relevant data.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  15. So if I don't have any social media accounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is it to be a requirement to hand over passwords to accounts that don't exist.

    DHS: "Social media logins and passwords, please.
    Victim: "I don't have any social media accounts. I don't want to be Zuck's product"
    DHS: "BS! Everyone has an account! No entry! Cavity search!"

    Or...

    DHS: "Social media logins and passwords, please"
    Victim: "here."
    DHS: "These accounts are brand new, you must be a terrorist! No entry! Cavity search!"

    1. Re: So if I don't have any social media accounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm wondering the same thing. I don't have a Facebook account, or twitter, or LinkedIn, or any other social media account.

    2. Re: So if I don't have any social media accounts? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Me either. As the smarter of you guys can deduce, I have a slashdot account, but that's asocial media.

    3. Re:So if I don't have any social media accounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will just get you to create an account on entry.

  16. all blacks are musical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like taxation.

    Governments these days don't ban things so much - people object.

    Instead they tax them to the point no one can afford them.

    The idea is staggeringly bad. It is a complete and utter disavowel of all the principles of freedom - all contracts must be voluntary and well-informed, except in self-defence. The self-defence principle does not apply here, because it cannot justify banning all the people from seven countries. It's like saying all blacks are musical.

  17. If you want to come to my country... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't expect to keep your jihadi, socialist, or subversive secrets. Don't like it? Stay out.

    1. Re: If you want to come to my country... by Striikerr · · Score: 2

      Don't forget those subversive Canadians! Them and their secrets around making good poutine or which beers taste best! Dude, you really have no clue do you. IF someone intending to do harm were entering the country, do you really think they will have social media posts about it or contain their devious plans on their phones or laptops? This just affects honest and decent people.

    2. Re:If you want to come to my country... by sh00z · · Score: 2

      If DHS hasn't already scanned social media for jihadi, socialist, or subversive secrets, and linked them to individuals who can be identified on arrival in the US, then they HAVE NOT BEEN DOING THEIR JOB. Not one more tax dollar for security theater.

    3. Re:If you want to come to my country... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The founding fathers would have shot your punk ass with Belgian pistols for being a coward... but it's funny to me how quickly your distrust of subsets of muslims (which is your right) is the reason you choose to throw away, disregard or abdicate your rights, plural, as an American. "Bin Ladenism" mindfucked you good.

      You will die eating a cheeseburger on/near a highway if the powers of chance have the standard distribution of their way. It's your choice if you want to fear an infinitesimally rare chance of terrorism during your final obese moments, of course... but do you really need to discard the Constitution entirely to live your elaborate and unlikely fantasies out?

    4. Re: If you want to come to my country... by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      The wife and suspected catalyst in the San Bernadino massacre would have been barred from entry if the feds had had access to her social media, as she had a lot of radical stuff. So no, it doesn't just affect honest people. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/co...

      Visa applicants can probably get away with saying that they don't have social media as part of the affidavit on penalty of perjury, but the US government may ask social media sites to run a facial recognition scan on you of all photo posts from your home region, and/or a scan for your name in your region. If they can pick you out in that data set, they can find all of your friends who do have social media, and the account at the center of the relational web had better be your mom or your spouse. If it is something like Islamonut42, then odds are that is your account and you are concealing it and you should probably pack a bag for Gitmo because they will get a FISA warrant and get into that account anyway along with all of your electronic devices and track you back through your IP. If you are not actively going into the visa process as a terrorist, it is in your best interest to be honest.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    5. Re: If you want to come to my country... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Don't forget those subversive Canadians! Them and their secrets around making good poutine or which beers taste best!

      These are valid secrets that will be very helpful to the folks in DHS!

    6. Re: If you want to come to my country... by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Don't forget those subversive Canadians!.

      Last time I checked there wasn't a travel ban on Canadians.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    7. Re:If you want to come to my country... by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      That would be the CIA/NSA, not DHS. Surveillance of US citizens requires a warrant, assuming that Obama followed the law on that for the last 8 years (all indications are he ignored the Muslim community, opting instead to investigate reporters who didn't carry his water: https://www.yahoo.com/news/blo... ). Surveillance on the rest of the world is open season and the purview of the CIA and NSA, but at the direction of the president. Since Obama hated the idea of US supremacy and actively tried to make the US just another global citizen, pretty sure we don't have anything that is less than 8 years old on 99.99% of the world population.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    8. Re: If you want to come to my country... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The Orlando shooter and Boston Marathon bombers were identified as likely terrorists before they did anything. Fat lot of good it did us.

      Also, Gitmo is not something to be proud of. It was specifically set up under a weird constitutional theory to be somewhere the rule of law would not apply.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    9. Re:If you want to come to my country... by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Obama signed an executive order - the NDAA - that allows the government to arrest anyone, at any time, for no reason other than being declared a terrorist and detain them indefinitely. Where was the liberal outrage? Hint: There wasn't any.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
  18. The message this sends by rossdee · · Score: 5, Interesting

    USA doesn't want tourists visiting the country
    or business people doing trade deals

    1. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair it's perfectly feasible making deals online. The only reason to travel to USA is visiting a friend and with this restriction in place it just means she can visit me.

    2. Re:The message this sends by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      To be fair that's been the message for a long time. There's few countries I dread visiting, and the USA is one of them. I remember my last business trip clearly.

      "Welcome to the United States of America" it said in the customs area of the airport. I got to stare at that shitty sign for 3 hours as a single customs man took his time individually fingerprinting and questioning the thousand visitors queued up.

      America is a lovely place and the people are lovely and friendly. But I still dread actually clearing customs in that area and I say that as a white ordinary privileged man.

    3. Re:The message this sends by Kohath · · Score: 1

      If there's a security risk, then why should America want that? Because we're going to miss out on all that lucrative trade with Libya and Somalia and Yemen?

      If your country's slogan is "Death to America!" then maybe we can do without your tourist business. Please visit Canada instead.

    4. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No retard, the signal this password crap sends is that you don't want tourist from or international business with *any* country. I guess you prefer to be poor and cowardly.

    5. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the article. The people they want to do this to are coming from countries with sketchy personal information. (Syrian refugees may have little to no ID). The social media investigation helps paint a picture of who these people are. Doing this HELPS people get into the country.

    6. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its not just those countries, its also everyone else in the world (the 96% who are not american) who are shying away from the USA.

      The USA employs million of people based on tourist $ and earns hundreds of billions of $

    7. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waiting in line ... I was in one of those many years ago, before the current collection of crises, coming into the US from Canada. The ferry dumped us all on the dock, loaded up the outgoing, and left. We sat for about an hour while a pair of officers went down the line inspecting each vehicle. Near a hundred, including some semis and other trucks. For most of us (US car, US plates, US ID; before passports were required) the inspection wasn't huge, but did involve checking papers, a few questions, and looking in the trunk. Well before cell phones and most laptops, and I had left my R/S Model 100 home anyway. We were about 1/2-way back in the line; at the rate they were going, the ones in the rear might barely have gotten off the dock, allowing perhaps a few minutes for the officers to have coffee and a smoke, before the next boat arrived.

    8. Re:The message this sends by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      USA doesn't want tourists visiting the country or business people doing trade deals

      I'm sure the tourists from the Middle East are big spenders in the United States. Perhaps the sheiks running the OPEC oil cartel spend money as tourists? I'm sure they go to Disney World and east ginormous hamburgers. [/sarcasm]

      --
      We'll make great pets
    9. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit, I'm a citizen and I get harassed at the border. They don't want you to leave and be untrackable, and if you do - don't come back.

    10. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in New Zealand and have traveled to the USA and China often, and to a lesser extent other countries. Traveling to the USA and flying inside the USA has been an increasingly unpleasant experience. I far prefer travel to China, so much easier. I know people now actively avoid travel to or via the USA in favor of other destinations.

      Basically they are trading off tourist income for security. Not sure how much impact it is having on security, but my guess (pure guess, no facts) is it will have reduced tourist visits by 10% to 20%. While the figure are unknown it is a simple fact people do feel unwelcome to travel to the USA and that has a real price for the USA. It is shame as once there it is a reasonable nice place to spend some time and the people are generally nice. I wouldn't want to live there but it is good place to visit.

      Several decades ago I was taught about other countries in school. The USA, it is a long way away but if you are rich you can visit it. China, it is a closed country, you can never visit there. In the future the lessons taught in school might be. The USA, it is a closed country, it is possible to visit but only after a long and difficult process. China, you are welcome to visit if you don't say anything bad about the government.

      BTW, posting anonymously as I know a single negative comment about the USA will earn this plenty of 'overrated' ratings. There a small, but vocal, segment of US Slashdotters who can not handle even the slights inference that the USA is not the greatest place on earth in all things.

    11. Re:The message this sends by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      As an American I hate going though customs in my country. I think the longest customs process I have ever been in other than the US one was when I went a Spain for business a couple of years ago. There it sucked because the Madrid airport is ultra slow at everything.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    12. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You miss the point. I am from New Zealand but if I travel to the USA I am expected to supply all the same crap. How many New Zealanders are terrorist, ever, in the entire history of the universe? Yet if I fill in your travel documents I am now expected to provide all my social network details. It is a pain in the ass waste of my time that no other country asks me to do. It is costing you tourist dollars, my guess it is costing you billions every year now. I have traveled the world and the USA is the worst. I had less trouble getting in to China and Ukraine. I think I will spend my holiday money on Fiji or Europe (via Hong Kong), they are happy to see me visit.

    13. Re:The message this sends by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Well I'm on a European passport so my experience in Madrid is actually the opposite. That was my business trip last time by the way, Amsterdam > Madrid > Chicago O'Hare.

      My experience with customs on the way out, ... the customs man wasn't even in his glass cubical. He was standing at the yellow waiting line and you just had to flash him a passport, not even hand it over.
      On the way back it was not as extreme, but standard European. Hand your passport over and 3 seconds later they hand it back. Mind you I have seen the occasional bitchy bastard, (especially in the UK, and double especially since Brexit) but in general if you're in a customs line for more than 30min as a citizen or foreigner in the EU, UK, China or an Arab country then you caught them on an exceptionally bad day.

      YMMV directly proportional to the length of your beard.

    14. Re:The message this sends by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      You miss the point. I am from New Zealand but if I travel to the USA I am expected to supply all the same crap.

      Actually you're not. Read TFA. It only applies to the 7 muslim countries that we are concerned about harboring terrorists.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    15. Re:The message this sends by hengist · · Score: 1

      Haven't been to the USA since 2010. When I went to Vancouver from Auckland last year, I paid extra to fly direct, just so I could bypass the US border. Won't be back to the USA for at least another four years.

    16. Re:The message this sends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the world's largest terrorist organisation, the US government, is worried about other countries harbouring terrorists. What's next, Australia enacting measures to prevent Estonians from smuggling kangaroos into Australia?

    17. Re:The message this sends by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Madrid was still faster than the US, even as a US citizen, but compared to other countries I have gone to it was slow. Maybe it was just that day but everything took forever, clearing customs, getting luggage, getting a taxi, it all took forever. The fastest customs experience that I have ever had was every time in Israel but that was because I was there for work as an official guest of the government and was able to use diplomatic line and was already cleared. By cleared I mean I had a full detailed background check performed by the Israeli government as I work on critical infrastructure for my job and they want to make sure I won't cause them problems. So Mossad has detailed information on me and people who I know and am related to. Upon exit I also got through with ease as I had special clearance and documentation so I did not get the full Q&A that everyone else does. Personally I was a bit put out as I am a security person and I would have found that a fascinating experience. I did get a glimpse of it when I was questioned about the item they had trouble scanning with the X-ray in the middle of my bag. The item in question was my old metal chassis 35mm SLR, assorted metal bodied lenses, and compact travel tri-pod.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    18. Re:The message this sends by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I flew to the UK about twenty-five years ago. They had us pick up our luggage and walk through a room to the outdoors. I didn't realize we'd passed through Customs for some time. On the way back, the airport X-ray machine picked up a suspicious looking can of shaving cream in my backpack. The inspectors were polite and didn't seem to think it said anything about me as a person.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    19. Re:The message this sends by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Clearly you don't travel much. Been to any actual hot spots? Done customs in Israel, or Russia, China or the Philippines?

      I have traveled extensively, U.S. customs is a breeze. I think you're just trying to stir the pot here.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    20. Re:The message this sends by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      China? Not an issue, even the Visa process was easier than the USA, heck the consulate even gave me a special exception on my visa to allow an extended stay compared to the standard business Visa. I cleared customs in minutes.

      Haven't been to Russia yet, that was on the cards for May but I have a wedding to attend in Australia. I've been to the Philippians twice. Lovely place again zero issues and zero delays. Though admittedly both times I landed in Ninoy Aquino only to clear customs and head to another domestic flight so maybe there's another customs area that you have more problems with.

      Can't say I've been to Israel, though from what I hear their customs people are very reasonable. A few very probing questions and also quite efficient not making you wait for many hours because they are too tight to actually staff the airport. Mind you they may not like me too much given they take offence to seeing a stamp from some of the surrounding countries which I have visited and also not have a problem with.

      Speaking of taking offence, who know who else freaks out at stamps? The United States of mouth drooling highschool dropout customs agents at the border in Washington, who proceeded to question me for 15 minutes about my 9 hour duration of stay in the UAE because he couldn't understand the concept of a courtesy hotel and seemed to think that the correct way of handling an international flight with a 9 hour stop over was to say screw you to a free hotel and curl up on a chair at the airport.

      I've had 4 entries into the USA, 3 shitty experiences, and even the relatively smooth one was a delay. And yes I have been to shitholes, but at least they treat you well when you cross the border.
      Maybe you're American, oblivious to the way your border treats others. I do remember a customs agent doing absolutely nothing at the USA Citizen desk while queuing for hours at the well known clusterfuck that is O'Hare Airport. At least in other countries they will call people from the other line over if they aren't serving their own.

      Maybe I am stirring the pot, or maybe the USA border actually deserves the reputation it has all over the world.

    21. Re:The message this sends by unixisc · · Score: 1

      USA doesn't want tourists visiting the country or business people doing trade deals

      I'm sure the tourists from the Middle East are big spenders in the United States. Perhaps the sheiks running the OPEC oil cartel spend money as tourists? I'm sure they go to Disney World and east ginormous hamburgers. [/sarcasm]

      The countries listed don't exactly have the oil rich sheikhs, despite all being Arab Muslim countries (except Iran).

  19. So what happens to people who don't use ANY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Believe it or not, their are still people in the world (like me) who REFUSE to use ANYTHING that smells like social media, period.
    Do I have to somehow convince them that I really honestly don't have a social media account they can use to violate my privacy. Or are we now required by law to have one?

    1. Re:So what happens to people who don't use ANY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like a white guy. Don't worry, this law won't apply to you.

  20. Paranoia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kinks/destroyer_20078967.html

  21. I was born here. This is bullshit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've deleted my 'social media' accounts. I don't have any. If they want my emails, they need a warrant. Ask me all the questions you want, that's legal.

    But I'll be fucking god-damned if I'll be forced to link myself to ANY 3rd party service *THAT OWNS AND CONTROLS ALL CONTENT* as any sort of proof that I'm not doing anything illegal or dangerous.

    This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that the framers of the Constitution stayed up late thinking about with a few modern details. FUCK this shit, it's UNAMERICAN and also fungible.

  22. Profit motive will keep us safe (probably) by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not surprised DHS is "considering" something like this. Certain gestapo elements in our government always are trying thuggish and ill considered tactics to make their lives easier. This is plainly a stupid and counterproductive idea to anyone with a functioning brain but the danger is real enough. The good news is that the companies affected (Facebook, Twitter, etc) have lots of money and flesh eating lawyers to fight such an over-reach by the government. I don't generally trust Facebook but I do trust their profit motive and DHS forcing people to hand over passwords is a clear and present danger to their bottom line.

    1. Re:Profit motive will keep us safe (probably) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You paying attention?

      Trump ftw will not end well, and definitely will damage the US economy.

    2. Re:Profit motive will keep us safe (probably) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should move to Crimea. When you enter the country, the Russians demand your social media account, and if you so much as have a friend of a friend in the resistance, off you go to jail, no trial, no lawyer, no representation - where you are lucky to get a bowl of potato soup a day.

      And then you can bandy about big words like "gestapo" and "thuggist"

      You'd probably last about an hour.

  23. Could President Trump pass this test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    This screening requires judgment to figure out who the person coming in is.

    Sorting between a friendly, harmless wacko and a risky one is not always easy.

    If the DHS didn't know they were screening the President, I wonder how the test would turn out.

    1. Re: Could President Trump pass this test? by antdah · · Score: 1

      Considering he also wants the financial records and Trump refuses to show even his tax records, then no, he wouldn't. He'd be stuck in an interrogation cell at the airport ranting about his rights and wanting a lawyer. We really should consider making this a procedure in the EU as well! Then, when Trump comes to visit, we hold him at the airport and demand his financial records to make sure he isn't a russian spy. I'm sure he'd love that.

  24. Read-only password needed by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If this behavior is permitted, then the social media sites need to start implementing read-only passwords for account. It is one thing to allow the US government to see everything n your account, and all your friend's accounts. It is an entirely different thing to allow the US government to act on your behalf with your account.

    1. Re:Read-only password needed by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They can implement POTS (parent over the shoulder) password too. Log in using that password, everything would be seemingly normal, with write access and everything. But only portions that you had declared "safe" using earlier regular full access password sessions would be visible.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re:Read-only password needed by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      If this behavior is permitted, then the social media sites need to start implementing read-only passwords for account. It is one thing to allow the US government to see everything n your account, and all your friend's accounts. It is an entirely different thing to allow the US government to act on your behalf with your account.

      WRONG - the current implementation works for US Citizens. This other workflow is for NON-US citizens. US Citizen rights != Non-US Citizen rights.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    3. Re:Read-only password needed by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      ...This other workflow is for NON-US citizens. US Citizen rights != Non-US Citizen rights....

      I knew that when I wrote my comment. Not sure what's got your shorts in a twist.

    4. Re:Read-only password needed by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      This is not a bad idea, but the root problem is that FB doesn't cooperate with the federal government anymore. The best solution would be for the potential applicants to give their FB account information and sign a waiver to give the feds full read access to their account. This is probably what will eventually happen, assuming FB pulls the stick out of it's ass and starts working to be part of the solution. The account password is a short term nuclear fix due in large part to FB obstructionism.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    5. Re:Read-only password needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good...good let the hate flow through you

    6. Re:Read-only password needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this behavior is permitted, then the social media sites need to start implementing read-only passwords for account.

      It should never be permitted. End of story. What next? Between states? Random searches at authorities pleasure?

    7. Re:Read-only password needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US Citizen rights != Non-US Citizen rights.

      You've never actually read the US Constitution, have you? (I'll give you a hint, but you'll have to use your brain: XIV)

    8. Re:Read-only password needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's fairly elegant, like true crypt, but how do you pitch it as a business case?

  25. I don't even know my passwords by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    Sucks to be DHS. My FB password alone is like 255 random characters. What about 2FA systems? They can have the password, but they're not getting the token.

    1. Re:I don't even know my passwords by Dr.+Crash · · Score: 2

      Using 2FA authentication won't work to stop them.

      They ALREADY ask you to allow inspection of electronics. If you refuse to give them the password, expect to not get your phone, laptop, or tablet back till you either give them the password or they image the whole thing for NSA's "enhanced decryption".

    2. Re:I don't even know my passwords by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

      What if you come into the country not planning to visit your social media account and therefor you don't bring and devices with you?

      It is already common practice for travelers to bring blanked out devices with them and then restore them once they are through the checkpoints.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    3. Re:I don't even know my passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sucks to be DHS. My FB password alone is like 255 random characters.

      Sucks to be you, you mean. Can't provide a password? You don't get to enter the US. They don't really mind.

    4. Re:I don't even know my passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just like travelling to North Korea.

  26. No problem by CAPSLOCK2000 · · Score: 1

    I'll just start using 128 character passwords, randomly generated from the non-ascii part of Unicode.

    1. Re:No problem by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but will you remember them? I had enough trouble at one of my past employers, where we were required to change passwords every 90 days

  27. Just create a fake account by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just create a fake account with a crappy password or tell them you don't have a social network account. If they give you hell, tell them to prove it. If they can prove it, it's your own damn fault for posting about yourself online.

    1. Re:Just create a fake account by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      The password is "theseassholesmademecreatethisaccount". No caps.Easy to remember.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. I guess FB account numbers just doubled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One real and one fake.

  29. How about residents? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This only applies to visitors? How about asking residents, including officials, to hand over their passwords?

  30. Nobody read the article by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    This is only if you're coming from one of the seven banned countries.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Nobody read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how does that make this any better?

    2. Re:Nobody read the article by ET3D · · Score: 1

      Guilty as charged. :) Anyway, it implies that these people could get into the US, which mean no ban. So this is positive news.

    3. Re:Nobody read the article by MtHuurne · · Score: 1

      It's not as bad as the ban, but that doesn't make it good.

    4. Re:Nobody read the article by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      For now... for now ... give it time, you can't cook the frog in a pressure cooker.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Nobody read the article by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      This is part of the more detailed vetting process. These countries were picked because of the lack of record keeping or because entire cities have been wiped off the map.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    6. Re:Nobody read the article by Win0ver · · Score: 1

      This is only if you're coming from one of the seven banned countries.

      This is false, several Canadians were refused at the border, despite giving them their smartphones and passwords. Source in french: La Presse
      (Yes she was born in Morocco, but she is a Canadian citizen, traveling with a Canadian Passport, and has been living in Quebec for 20 years.

    7. Re:Nobody read the article by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Don't you read? The woman has been in Canada for twenty years, and is a Canadian citizen. For all legal and practical purposes, she's Canadian.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  31. not such a good idea by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    You are admitted to the US (and other Western nations) only if you can establish with reasonable certainty that you (1) will leave again, and (2) won't cause harm while you're here. If you come from places like Europe, the US uses your police records, surveillance data, credit records, and similar information to make that determination. If you come from places like Somalia or Yemen, reliable records are not available, and the US is trying to use social media profiles as an unofficial substitute. I think that's a bad idea. Social media profiles are unlikely to be very reliable, and the whole thing looks appears like a massive invasion of privacy. The US should generally give visas only to people who can provide credible government and financial records, with case-by-case exemptions in a few special cases.

    1. Re:not such a good idea by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Actually, the above reason is why the US tried banning (which is currently in the courts) people from these 7 countries. Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria don't have reliable records. In fact, w/ Syria, it's tough to expect that the Assad regime, which the US had been trying to topple (not sure if that's still Trump's policy) would want to share anything w/ the US, and even if they did, they can't have records for the eastern half of their country that's run by ISIS. Same goes for Iraq: their government may or may not be friendly, but how would Baghdad know whether someone in Tikrit supports ISIS or not? Iran too - it's impossible to know, since Teheran would have every reason to allow in terrorists, while preventing genuine refugees from Islam from coming. And Sudan is still listed as a terror sponsoring state, even though Obama removed sanctions just before leaving (similar to his moves on Cuba and Israel)

      Anyway, the reason they probably want to know their social media activities is that for now, they are forced to let in people from these countries that they can't vet.

    2. Re:not such a good idea by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      Actually, the above reason is why the US tried banning (which is currently in the courts) people from these 7 countries

      That's my point: the US government is offering to look at people's social media accounts in lieu of official government records.

      Anyway, the reason they probably want to know their social media activities is that for now, they are forced to let in people from these countries that they can't vet.

      I expect the court order will be overturned quickly. Not admitting people from countries without good government records is reasonable and within Trump's authority.

      Syria, it's tough to expect that the Assad regime, which the US had been trying to topple (not sure if that's still Trump's policy)

      Trump, like Obama, was elected on the promise of putting an end to these kinds of unwise foreign adventures. We'll have to see whether he does a better job than Obama.

    3. Re:not such a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I expect the court order will be overturned quickly. Not admitting people from countries without good government records is reasonable and within Trump's authority.

      Have to agree with this one, social media fiddles or not. The US has banned or severely limited travel to/from other countries before, for political as well as terrorism/"vetting" reasons. Think Cuba and, for many years, "Communist China." All it really does is force people who want to travel to or from there to use an indirect route that doesn't obviously touch the banned country, though in some cases there may be other repercussions when the trip becomes known of later. And if true terrorists are making the trip, why would one not expect them to have all of their (perhaps fictional) papers in order anyway, and to use an acceptable routing?

  32. Oh, well by xfizik · · Score: 2

    Just another reason to not use social media.
    P.S. I don't even remember my FB password, on those rare occasions that I try to use FB from a new device I always have to go through the "forgot your password?" ordeal. But I don't expect border officials to be too sympathetic about that.

    1. Re:Oh, well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just another reason not to visit the US

      FTFY

    2. Re:Oh, well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just another reason to not use social media.

      Border official: Facebook password, please.
      Traveler: I do not use Facebook.
      Border official: LinkedIn password.
      Traveler: I do not use LinkedIn.
      Border official: Last chance: Twitter password.
      Traveler: I do not use Twitter.
      Border official: No entry for you.

      P.S. I don't even remember my FB password, on those rare occasions that I try to use FB from a new device I always have to go through the "forgot your password?" ordeal. But I don't expect border officials to be too sympathetic about that.

      I guess border officials will get used to that one very fast.

    3. Re:Oh, well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but how do you and I PROVE we don't have Facebook accounts?

      I think social media is a waste of time. I don't even have a Slashdot account.

    4. Re:Oh, well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if you did use faggotbook you wouldn't have a social media password, it would be a social network password.

      You'll be fine.

  33. Asking People To Commit a Felony by Kagato · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most social networks (like Facebook) expressly forbid sharing passwords or allowing others to use your account. Because that's the policy it becomes a Felony according to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA). The United States Court of Appeals has affirmed sharing accounts contrary to the TOS is a violation of the CFAA and there are people in PRISON as we speak for doing just that.

    I would contend that you cannot be compelled to commit a felony by a agent of the United States. If DHS wants this power they need to have the CFAA amended to grant them an exemption.

    1. Re:Asking People To Commit a Felony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you should perhaps read the CFAA, there's a specific exemption for authorized law enforcement.

    2. Re:Asking People To Commit a Felony by zifn4b · · Score: 0

      Most social networks (like Facebook) expressly forbid sharing passwords or allowing others to use your account. Because that's the policy it becomes a Felony according to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA). The United States Court of Appeals has affirmed sharing accounts contrary to the TOS is a violation of the CFAA and there are people in PRISON as we speak for doing just that.

      I would contend that you cannot be compelled to commit a felony by a agent of the United States. If DHS wants this power they need to have the CFAA amended to grant them an exemption.

      None of this matters. Non-US citizens do not have the same rights at United States citizens. You folks really need to understand that. About all the rights non-US citizens have in the US is from the Geneva Convention. That's the reality of how the world works. Welcome to Earth. Don't like it? Go to the United Nations and complain.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    3. Re:Asking People To Commit a Felony by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      100% sure you cannot be charged with a crime, let alone a felony for any action taken when compelled by law over the wishes of any business. When some company, even one as large as Facebook, has TOS that violate federal law/lawful executive orders, guess which one wins. That part of the TOS is invalid and therefore not covered under CFAA...

      Seriously, a 5 year old could understand this... Mommy tells me to give her the crayon, therefore I don't get in trouble when I obey Mommy, even if my little brother Johnny tells me not to and throws a tantrum when I do... Geez.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    4. Re:Asking People To Commit a Felony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure why you're giving a pass to the mistreatment of people because they're not citizens of one particular country. It's not a civilized attitude.

    5. Re:Asking People To Commit a Felony by Kagato · · Score: 1

      Since you want it explained like a five year old. The account belongs to Facebook, not you. None of the data resides on a device in the CPB area.

      Let's say I'm at JFK and I have a key to front door of the Union Hall in Brooklyn. Is it legal for the CPB to take that key and drive to Brooklyn and start looking through the files at the Union Hall? No.

    6. Re:Asking People To Commit a Felony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CFAA does not apply to investigations.

    7. Re: Asking People To Commit a Felony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy shit, violating a TOS is considered a crime in the US? :O

      Here in the EU (at least the nations I know) the TOS of, let's say Fecesbook, has no legal bearing at all.

      This is because no normal busy person is expected to read through 60 pages of consenting to mouth-to-anus surgeries on a nearly weekly basis.

  34. Slashdot readers predicted this last year by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    No social media account? You're a terrorist.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  35. Should be required reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously terrorists are going to use other accounts. What they're after obviously has nothing to do with the foreign national entering the country, it's about using their social media accounts to spy on people already in the US, potentially US citizens in ways that the courts and the social media themselves have blocked so far. It's draconian, but good news in a way: it demonstrates that the changes in the way that social media companies do business in a post-Snowden world are in fact keeping the US government out of their/our data.

    The short article Using Metadata to Find Paul Revere, which was popular a year or so ago but seems to have been forgotten, should be required reading on the subject.

    1. Re:Should be required reading by johanw · · Score: 1

      What about changing that password as soon as you're in the country?

  36. From the geniuses at DHS... by Gription · · Score: 1

    That can only be described as fucking stupid. Hell, why don't we make them submit to vivisection? Then we could learn LOTS and be certain they couldn't be a threat afterwards!

    There are many reasons it is stupid but for starters: Most everyone reuses passwords simply so there is some chance that they can actually remember their passwords. So what this amounts to is, "Give us unrestricted access to everything."
    And this coming from one of the least trustworthy things that exists: A government agency...

    If they want your social account's name, fine. They can look it up for themselves. If a court wants to approve it they can have Facebook build them a read-only interface that will show a person's complete activity. (I suspect they already have this.) I'm wondering if they want this so they can go pillaging through all of a person's other internet activity. That makes sense.

  37. They don't really expect it to pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's just another talking point to create distrust about anyone in Trump's way, like Fake News social media ....

    "We tried to keep America safe, but the leftists in Silicon Valley took us to court and wouldn't let us look at terrorist social media accounts. Wake up America! If a terrorist kills a US citizen, blame over-rated Facebook. Sad."

    Well played, President Breitbart^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HTrump.

  38. Simple solution... by Timothy2.0 · · Score: 1

    "I don't use social media. I think it's dumb."

    What are they going to do?

  39. Thanks, password manager by hackertourist · · Score: 0

    "No officer, I don't know my password. It is filled in automatically by my password manager, which lives on my laptop which I left at home." And off to jail you go.

  40. How do they know by aglider · · Score: 1

    How many social network identities, if any, I have? This is just plain FUD!

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  41. Can't trust gov't with FB pwd but healthcare is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, the US government can't be trusted with your facebook password, but you want to put that same government in complete control of health care?

    Which is it?

    If the US government is trustworthy enough to control the private details of your health, it's surely trustworthy enough to have access to your FB account for a short time, no?

  42. Confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have probably just mixed up a login with a password. They want read access, but don't know yet what is the difference between a password and a login. Perhaps they have used too much services requiring an email address as a login. This way design decisions corrupt the legislation of a country. It's an engineering ethics failure.

    1. Re:Confusion by ledow · · Score: 1

      I'll give you my login to anything, even Facebook. Hell, my Slashdot login is above this very message.

      What use is that to use unless it's so open that it's showing everything you said (e.g. my Slashdot). My social media logins get you almost nothing that you wouldn't already have by that point.

      Are you suggesting they've stopped at that point, when there are no posts visible because "Homeland Security" isn't in your friend list on Facebook? I don't think so. I think, at minimum, they're asking you to reveal a login and if they're suspicious (which could include "Gosh, he doesn't let us see ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING"), then it will go for passwords too.

      And, technically, the email on this account of mine is completely different to the email of other accounts. Hell, I have about 20+ domains all with unlimited aliases I could use on them. There's no help there at all.

      No, this is about volunteering information, and then if there's any suspicion (you didn't volunteer) forcing it out of you.

      The US has been dead to me since just before 9/11 when all this nonsense started. I literally CANNOT take a laptop or phone which may have any work logins, emails or anything else at all on it into the US. EU law says that's breaking the law.

      That ruins a whole load of stuff you might want to do on holiday, and kills business trips stone dead.

      And if you demand logins to unrelated things, I'm likely to refuse. It's that likely to get me into trouble, I'm likely not to bother trying to go.

      As such, not been to the US in years and have no current intention to go there.

  43. I'm boycotting by dskoll · · Score: 1

    I simply won't go to the US unless my job forces me to. I certainly won't spend any tourist dollars there until this bullshit stops.

    1. Re:I'm boycotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I simply won't go to the US unless my job forces me to. I certainly won't spend any tourist dollars there until this bullshit stops.

      Likewise. I don't even have a social media account but that's not even the point any more.
      A number of use have told work we aren't interested in U.S. travel for conferences/training etc.

    2. Re:I'm boycotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grow a pair. Your job can't "force" you to do anything except make a choice.

    3. Re:I'm boycotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My job asked me to go to the U.S., I told them no way. My employer isn't allowed to force me through humiliating and unlawful searches directly or by proxy. I've traveled to other countries for the jobs sake, in Europe, Eurasia and Middle East. People of the united states can keep their shitty country and government to them selves.

    4. Re:I'm boycotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was planning to go to the states next month; not any more. There's a few grand that's going to get spent in Europe instead...

    5. Re:I'm boycotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your job tells you to go tell them no. You probably have legal protections in your home country that protect you from providing personal non-work passwords to conduct business for the company.

    6. Re:I'm boycotting by zifn4b · · Score: 0

      I simply won't go to the US unless my job forces me to. I certainly won't spend any tourist dollars there until this bullshit stops.

      Good. We don't want you here.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    7. Re:I'm boycotting by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      We are fine with your choices here in the US. May we suggest alternatives vacation destinations like Iran, Libya, China, and Syria. Please make sure to share your views about religion and politics vocally in public and denigrate the country you are visiting and let me know how great the rest of the world is.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    8. Re:I'm boycotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry mate, forget the USA, come to New Zealand, we are happy to earn your tourist dollars. The USA is ok but you will have more fun here anyway! zifn4b doesn't need your money as Trump will make America great again. However down here New Zealand has always been great, we don't need to close our borders to stay great.

    9. Re:I'm boycotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those places are almost as bad as the US. There are polenty of countries worth a visit, where visitors are actually treated with the respect they deserve.

    10. Re:I'm boycotting by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That's not the point. The point is that people we want visiting the US are being turned off. There was a mention above of a Canadian denied entry because of her birth country. The US has been becoming a less inviting country for scientific conferences, since scientists from other countries aren't sure they can get to the conference, and that hurts US science. Tourism is good for the US, and it's being discouraged. Business trips are being discouraged. One of the effects of Trump's EO is that it emphasizes arbitrariness. If you're not a US citizen, but have all your papers in order including your visa, you don't know when you get on your flight whether Trump will do something to stop you from entering.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  44. And what if you don't have social media? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What happens then? You get rejected because you don't have a trackable presence? Thats the whole reason for avoiding social media in the first place.

  45. Re:Can't trust gov't with FB pwd but healthcare is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, Shaniqua LaFawnduh Washington-Jackson is perfectly capable of determining your entire treatment plan for Stage III pancreatic cancer... clearly FB passwords should be no big deal.

  46. Re:Require mandatory tracking devices on muslims by unixisc · · Score: 2

    I'm sure it will be a surprise to all the people of Arabic, Turkic, Indo-Iranian or East Indian peoples to know that they are of Negroid ancestry

  47. Happens all the time in other countries. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go out to Netflix and browse for the word 'Border' and you'll get 6 - 10 shows from Australia, Canada, Great Britain about the goings on at their borders. Not an episode goes by without their immigration department quizzing a visa holder about their working there on a tourist visa (not allowed). The tourist always says they don't plan on working while in the country. But then the agents rifle through their phones and show the tourist their own emails, texts, and documents proving they have already setup work or are trying to arrange work. How do the agents get access to tourist's phones? They demand access or no visa.

    Many of the tourists are Americans who probably are bitching about our laws but fully understand the need of other countries to defend their borders. Yep, they hand their passwords right over. No complaints. Americans are hypocrites. Yep, they'll march around waving hateful signs but have some Australian border agent tell them their 4 week vacation is over if they don't provided their iPhone password and blam they hand it right over. No standing up for human rights when it comes to getting your outback vacation in.

    1. Re:Happens all the time in other countries. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1
      Interesting

  48. I'd be happy ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... if they could just get Trump to hand over his Twitter password.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:I'd be happy ... by Opportunist · · Score: 3

      Try n9y25ah7.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  49. Liberal Memes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "act of terrorism in the US" - when and how did that become a talking point? It is beyond stupid that a thinking person would advance that as a foundation of a good argument. This is like inviting Manson over for dinner because he never killed anyone in your state.

    1. Re:Liberal Memes by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      That's only valid because you know about Manson because he's been vetted via due process.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  50. What difference does it make? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have been doing this for a long time. There was no pushback against it during the elections. It's certainly not going to change now. The people who vote obviously don't give a damn, expect for that tiny percentage that vote against either faction of the ruling party. Sorry folks, your majority rule has hit a brick wall. It will only get worse, and you only have yourselves to blame. This is what you wanted, and now you got it. A big hearty thanks from the rest of us!

  51. Read only/ POTS password safety alert ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    All home security companies allow you to set two passwords, one "All clear" and another one for "Not All clear, someone is forcing me to answer the phone". If you use the second password, the company will politely reply "ok sir/madam, everything is good. thank you", hang up and call the police.

    We can set up such a password, parent over the shoulder, password etc. They will appear to be normal and seemingly function cleanly. But it will expose only parts of the account you had already deemed safe for that access.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  52. Why? They already have it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do they need this? They already have a current "backup" in that special Utah data center.

  53. International roaming fee by tepples · · Score: 1

    Do cellular subscribers outside the United States still receive messages without charge even when roaming in the United States?

    1. Re:International roaming fee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wtf? of course!
      Receiving calls may cost, as you have an option to cut it short, or not answer.
      But for SMS you don't really have an option but to receive.
      It'd be idiotic request the user to pay for receiving an SMS.

    2. Re:International roaming fee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think so. SMS gets delivered to the phone whether you want it or not, how could you be made pay for it?

    3. Re:International roaming fee by tepples · · Score: 1

      The visitor could instead notify his carrier to put SMS on hold before leaving the country.

  54. How is data "at the border"? by Comboman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How exactly is data sitting on a server in silicon valley "at the border" just because the person who created that data is at the border? By that logic, you can search their car, house, workplace and bank account without a warrant as long as they are standing at the border when you do it.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    1. Re: How is data "at the border"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given the number of terrorists known to have communicated on Twitter and other platforms, this seems like more of a follow on charge as they would likely give a fake one. If a person enters, is surveilled to have used an account not handed over, then that is probable cause for a warrant. It may actually catch more that way. I seriously doubt the government intends to rummage through all visitors accounts with anything goes other than a facial recognition program or keyword search, which is likely going on already.

    2. Re:How is data "at the border"? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      It's no different than asking them what city they live in or the purpose of their visit.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:How is data "at the border"? by MikeKD · · Score: 1

      How exactly is data sitting on a server in silicon valley "at the border" just because the person who created that data is at the border? By that logic, you can search their car, house, workplace and bank account without a warrant as long as they are standing at the border when you do it.

      Because it's within 100 miles of the coast (embedded PDF, with cites.)

    4. Re:How is data "at the border"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or an anal cavity search.

    5. Re:How is data "at the border"? by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      I never agreed to not reveal my city of origin. I have agreed not to reveal my Facebook password. Moreover, knowing I live in Minneapolis, while useful in specifically identifying me, does not reveal any private information about me or my friends and family.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re:How is data "at the border"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silicon Valley is within 100 miles of the border thus the data is freely available without a warrant.

    7. Re:How is data "at the border"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the border extends 100 miles inward and thus covers 2/3rds of the US population, chances are your car, house, workplace, etc... are all already at the border. Border guards rarely use their full range, but sometimes they do.

    8. Re:How is data "at the border"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "at the border" is loosely defined as any international point of entry, this would include inland international airports if there are any, and any point within 100 miles of the country's physical border with another country or the ocean. Basically if you live in Florida then everywhere is considered "at the border" so there is no escaping CBP in theory.

  55. This is nothing new by alanterra · · Score: 1

    CBP has been confiscating and rummaging through telephones and computers for years. They don't need your FB password if they can break into your computer. http://www.wnyc.org/story/my-d...

    1. Re:This is nothing new by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I honestly wonder what happens if you have a trojan on your computer...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  56. Why Stop There? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I like what you did there, but why stop with that?

      "If you don't want your rectum searched for contraband, just stay at home."
    "If you don't want your social media scrutinized, just cut yourself off from your social circle."
    "If you don't want your pussy grabbed, why do you have one?"
    "If you don't want to be shot in the face, why do you have a face?"
    "If you don't want to be discriminated against based on your religion, just quit your religion."

    So many problems become easy when you ask people to abandon everything important to them!

  57. Retarded Idea by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    1) Not everyone uses social media
    2) Trivial to set up multiple accounts
    3) If you're gonna Jihad, don't put it on FB
    4) Other countries may start requiring it from US visitors
    5) Other than being innaccurate ( see #1 and #2 ) and annoying, what exactly does it gain us intelligence wise ?

    1. Re:Retarded Idea by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      What it gains US intelligence is that they weren't already doing it. As in: It's another bullet point they can put on the "security checklist"

      The fact is, they are reaching for things that could fall under "extreme vetting" that aren't already being done. As it happens, they can't come up with any new ideas other than "give us your social media passwords..."

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    2. Re:Retarded Idea by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Or it gives them a better answer for 'how did you get the defendant's private correspondence' than 'NSA, bitch.'

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  58. Device contains ID cookies by tepples · · Score: 1

    How exactly is data sitting on a server in silicon valley "at the border" just because the person who created that data is at the border?

    The persistent identification cookie on the laptop, tablet computer, or smartphone that a traveler carries allows access. But it's difficult to extract said cookies because of the design of operating systems and web browsers for those devices. As a substitute for a means of exporting cookies, they ask for enough information to replicate the identification cookies stored on the device.

    1. Re:Device contains ID cookies by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      The persistent identification cookie on the laptop, tablet computer, or smartphone that a traveler carries allows access.

      Legally speaking, it only allows access for the account owner. Barring a special exception to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, anyone else using that cookie (or the login & password, whether provided voluntarily in violation of the TOS or under duress) without the service provider's permission is committing a felony by hacking into the service provider's systems without authorization. The account owner may be at the border, but the account owner cannot legally delegate permission to access the account to a third party and the system being accessed is not located at the border.

      The only legal option consistent with both the TOS you agreed to and CFAA is to refuse to turn over the passwords—even knowing that this means the visa request will be denied.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    2. Re:Device contains ID cookies by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The CFAA doesn't ban bona fide government investigations. However, the user does have an agreement with Facebook (US courts have found EULAs legally binding) not to hand over his or her password.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:Device contains ID cookies by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      The CFAA doesn't ban bona fide government investigations.

      Right, but is this an bona fide investigation? IIRC that exception applies to law-enforcement agencies, whereas this is about the organization responsible for approving visas. They're not investigating any crime; it's more like a background check.

      Either way, there's still the TOS issue. The applicant is not legally compelled to turn over the password; they can refuse (and allow their visa application to be denied). Ergo, if they do submit the password they are violating the TOS of their own free will, which can result in their account being terminated and perhaps other penalties.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  59. Two solutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are two evident solutions:
    - Do not go to the US (or any other police state)
    - Do not have social media accounts

    Preferably, both. A bit of sightseeing is not worth surrendering your privacy and being treated like a criminal.

    1. Re:Two solutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, 'police state'. What shithole excuse for a country are YOU from, asshole? You enjoying having bombs go off in public places every other day, by the way?

      Don't pretend that ANY other country is ANY better than the U.S. is right now. So far as I can see, for the moment at least, EVERYWHERE else is worse in one way or another. Sure, we don't have the government torturing people in prisons for weeks and weeks then hanging them by the neck until dead (Syria) or having people disappear off the face of the planet (Russia) or warlords roaming the countryside, performing 'ethnic cleansing' (any African nation you care to name), or building nuclear weapons, developing ICBMs, and threatening the West like some psychopath (North Korea), we've got a possibly demented orange-haired nutjob that SLIGHTLY LESS than 50% of the country voted for (out of severe frustration; I'll give them that, at least) who is showing many signs of wanting to tear up the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence, simply because they're inconvenient to him and his agenda, but we've still got plenty of people in positions of authority who are fighting to keep a balance and to stop the worst things from becoming reality -- and speaking out against our government, and publicly protesting things you think are wrong won't get you 'disappeared' or killed outright. Thanks, but no thanks, I think I'll stay where I am.

    2. Re:Two solutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to break it to you, but you might want to reconsider some of your points...

      We don't have the government torturing people in prisons for weeks and weeks then hanging them by the neck until dead

      Actually, yes you do. You torture them in Guantanamo and kill prisoners by lethal injection, electrocution, gas, firing squad, or... yes, hanging. You're the only western country to do this and look like barbarians to the rest of the west.

      or having people disappear off the face of the planet

      Really?

      warlords roaming the countryside, performing 'ethnic cleansing'

      Give it time, looks like you have a full-on race war primed and ticking, ready to go.

      building nuclear weapons, developing ICBMs, and threatening the West like some psychopath

      "Europe is a big place. I’m not going to take cards off the table. We have nuclear capability." -- Donald Trump. So again, you might want to reconsider there...

  60. You're stupid if you can't get around this. by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    Step 1. Delete your Facebook Account before leaving your country.
    Step 2. Reply, "I don't have a Facebook Account" when asked.
    Step 3. Restart your Facebook Account at some later time.

    Problem solved.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
  61. And here's what will happen by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    First of all, anyone who doesn't have a FB account (like me) and doesn't give a shit about making one (like me) will create one for the US trip because obviously now you need one to enter the US. I would even write exactly this onto the page, that this page only exists because DHS wants to see a FB page from me, so I had to make one, don't expect any updates because they will not be forthcoming.

    Everyone who does have one and has reason to think that DHS doesn't like what's going on on it will create a fake one.

    And now try to convince DHS that the one you created because you have none and don't give a shit about telling the world how good your last dump was is not a fake one you created because you're Bin Laden's lovechild.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  62. Actual implementation... by mi · · Score: 1

    In actual implementation, most likely, people will be asked to login themselves — jumping through whatever secondary authentication-hoops there may be — on the officer's computer or on their own one. They don't need your password — which you can change immediately afterwards anyway — they just want to see, who you are...

    Israel has been doing it for years (including access to your emails), for example. I do not like it, but I don't like my luggage and person being searched either — this is not especially more outrageous.

    What a duly privacy-minded service could offer is something like a duress password — if you login using that code instead of your usual one, certain mailboxes, messages, etc. are to be hidden... Can't hide everything — or even most things — because then the officer may get suspicious...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Actual implementation... by BostonPilot · · Score: 1

      Israel has been doing it for years (including access to your emails), for example. I do not like it, but I don't like my luggage and person being searched either — this is not especially more outrageous.

      I actually feel this is a lot worse than searching my luggage and person, although I don't like that either. As our lives increasingly leave digital fingerprints, access to that data conveys a lot about you (which is of course why they want the data). The search surface of my luggage and my body is pretty small. The search surface of social media is pretty darn huge, especially for younger people (and some of my friends who seem to have to post about every little boring detail of their life).

      Personally I'd be much happier if they just make sure I'm not carrying any bombs or weapons and not try to determine at the border whether I'm a nice person or not.

      I've watched some of those CBP reality shows on Netflix, and I've been amazed at some of the stuff people get turned away (from Canada and Australia I think it was) for. Like... omg, you committed a crime 45 years ago... Sorry, we don't want you in the country... Kinda surprises me that they look/care about stuff so far back. Is that going to happen with social media? "You made a bad posting on Twitter 20 years ago, we don't want you in our country" ???

    2. Re:Actual implementation... by mi · · Score: 1

      some of my friends who seem to have to post about every little boring detail of their life.

      Stop right there. Whatever they voluntarily post anyway is already public and not subject to any privacy concerns. In short, if I don't need your password to see it, you can not object to my looking at it.

      Like... omg, you committed a crime 45 years ago... Sorry, we don't want you in the country...

      Well, this is completely unrelated to the topic — whether they find out about your old crime(s) from your Facebook posts or through any other means, if such is their stance, then so be it. Maybe, a country should adjust the requirements, but as long as they are what they are, how exactly they are enforced is besides the point.

      My only objection is that they should make both the general criteria and the decision on each particular person known before I fly over — preferably, before I even buy a ticket.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re:Actual implementation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel has been doing it for years (including access to your emails), for example.

      Not surprising, everything the Israeli know about human rights, they learned in German concentration camps.

  63. "But Officer, I don't use social media at all." by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    That's all you'd have to say. What are they going to do, waterboard you until you admit you're on Facebook? I suppose if you're dumb enough that you actually use Facebook and actually have a picture of yourself in your profile and they find it all, then you're stuck, but what self-respecting terrorist is going to post pictures of themselves online? Also as others have pointed out, divulging your passwords is against Terms of Service for just about anything online, and in fact it may be a felony to allow someone else to access your accounts, even if it's law enforcement. This also sets a dangerous precendent, I think, if allowed to go forward; if they can force people coming into the country to give up passwords to online accounts, then there's a good argument for forcing anyone to give up their passwords, even if you were born in the U.S. and have never set foot outside it's borders, and never have had so much as a parking ticket your entire life.

    Of course "this is a bad idea" and "this is a dangerous precedent" are phrases I think we're going to be hearing quite a bit in the next 4 years..

    1. Re:"But Officer, I don't use social media at all." by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      That's all you'd have to say. What are they going to do

      If border gaurds beleive a foreign visitor is lying they can just send them home. They don't need to prove anything,

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    2. Re:"But Officer, I don't use social media at all." by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see: they can have all the proper documentation, travel permits, VISAs, and whatever else is required to legally enter the country, but none of that matters if some border guard 'decides' they're lying about not having social media accounts? So much for the rule of law?

  64. The big winners are ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... social media.

    Don't have a Facebook account?

    Get one, then we'll talk.

    --

    "Thanks, dude." ~ Zuckyberg

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  65. FUCK THAT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there I said it

  66. FB? What's FB? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    I don't *have* a FB account.

    That one?

    Someone must have put that up about me, but I certainly didn't.

    Yes, please, waterboard me for my alleged Facebook password.

    --
    -Styopa
  67. What about people who don't use social media? by no1nose · · Score: 1

    I deleted my facebook several years ago. I never used twitter. I have this /. account. What will they do with people who do not partake in social networking?

    1. Re:What about people who don't use social media? by JustNiz · · Score: 2

      >> I deleted my facebook several years ago.

      Last I heard this isn't actually possible.

  68. Idiots by hoggoth · · Score: 1

    So regular non-threat people will have to let these bumbling thugs go through their private social media, and actual terrorists will hand over the fake account they prepared just for this purpose.

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  69. Isn't declaring enough? by avandesande · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't it be enough just to declare any social media accounts that you are on? Friend lists should be enough to determine if someone is connected with terrorists.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  70. If they do, it will be an interesting conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Facebook password?"

    "I don't use Facebook"

    "Twitter account?"

    "I don't use twitter"

    I suppose I could give them my AC account name for slashdot, but I'm not sure what the other ACs have been up to, so that's probably a bad idea.

  71. Prima Nocta by tekrat · · Score: 4, Funny

    "DHS officials also stated that if the wife of a US visitor is good-looking, they want to demand they get to sleep with the woman before allowing entry to the couple..."

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  72. Pop quiz: Land of the Free and Home of the Brave? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uh, that is a trick question, right?

  73. There will be a lot of new facebook posts saying.. by Smid · · Score: 1

    That "Donald Trump has the best words."

  74. I have facebook accounts, cheap by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    Each one has been lovingly hand-filled by my well paid assistants with glowing comments about the Great again United States, and how handsome and insightful its great blonde (duly elected) God-king is.

    Very cheap. Contact "Butch Hillhurst" on Silk Road 4.0 for details.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  75. Please don't feed the trolls. by mmell · · Score: 1
    Most are easy enough to recognize. They usually post as "Anonymous Coward".

    Try to confine yourself to relevant, intelligent posts. Don't fall into the trap of lowering yourself to their level.

  76. well by ruir · · Score: 1

    FUCK YOU, DHS

  77. How did this get modded 'Funny'? by mmell · · Score: 1
    'Informative' would be far more appropriate.

    I suppose now it will be alright for foreign governments to demand the same of US citizens traveling abroad?

    1. Re: How did this get modded 'Funny'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it won't. They will be called oppressive regimes who deny liberty and freedom.

    2. Re:How did this get modded 'Funny'? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I suppose now it will be alright for foreign governments to demand the same of US citizens traveling abroad?

      It will be taken up like it is a fashion if it is adopted in one place. For all I know that could be why Fatherland Security is doing it, because they heard it's being done in Russia or Iran or somewhere.

  78. When will they be held liable? Never! by mmell · · Score: 1

    They were only following orders.

    1. Re: When will they be held liable? Never! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Following orders to break the law makes you a criminal. Why do they get a pass for breaking the law?

  79. Non-US Citizens have no rights in the US by zifn4b · · Score: 1

    That's the bottom line. Do you think American citizens have rights in Iraq? I rest my case. Mod me down liberals, reality still stands.

    --
    We'll make great pets
  80. Re: Require mandatory tracking devices on muslims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All humans are.

  81. Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who works with "normies" regularly already knows; most users don't know their own password, for anything. DHS better get good at walking people through recovering passwords. The idea that it would just be a simple conversation of "What are your FB credentials" "My username is bombmaker69@fakemail.com, my password is monkey123" is laughable. Might happen 1 in 10 times, even if everyone wanted to comply.

  82. If you have no social media presence by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    You are obviously a dangerous lone wolf terrorist.

    We only want sheep entering the US, who will get along sociaaaaaaaaly with all the other sheep.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  83. For those that didn't read TFA and... by zifn4b · · Score: 1
    ...got their jump to conclusion mats out:

    People who want to visit the United States could be asked to hand over their social-media passwords to officials as part of enhanced security checks, the country's top domestic security chief said.

    Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly told Congress on Tuesday the measure was one of several being considered to vet refugees and visa applicants from seven Muslim-majority countries.

    --
    We'll make great pets
  84. Re:I don't HAVE social media passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Carrying a blanked-out device through customs would probably look suspicious and get you into "enhanced" inspection.

    I don't do Facebook or Twitter. So does that mean I can't enter the US?

    Oh wait, I do have a LinkedIn account, but use it seldom, change the password every few visits, and normally access it only from a desktop or laptop that has my password manager and its database. So if I'm not carrying my personal laptop must I not enter the US? What about my work laptop that only has the corporate stuff installed, with few if any personal files, no social media apps, and if I understand the corporate policies correctly no copy of my emails (which normally store only on the corporate server); if that's the only one I'm carrying, must I not enter the US?

    For that matter, almost all of my passwords by now have become random, long things that I can't remember, and have to use a password manager (local, not online) for - a pain if I ever need one on the phone where the mobile version of the manager doesn't work very well (and is seldom needed once the apps are set up anyway) so it's not installed. I can give them the access code for the phone but other than my contacts list and photos they won't find much data there. So lacking common social media accounts, the ability to give them a LinkedIn password because I don't use it on the phone or corporate laptop and therefore don't have the password loaded, or even a laptop at all, must I not enter the US? (Yes, I'm somewhat of a Luddite but not religious about it.)

    Oh yes, I'm a US citizen but that doesn't seem to matter at the border any more.

  85. John Smith Denied Entry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    John Smith, we see that you have 7,325 Facebook profiles. We want the password to all of them.

  86. Prove it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do they 'prove' you have social media accounts? What you are basically telling people is to leave their phone at home, and do all business with the US via a burner. Turn everything to private and then what? Prove it belongs to someone. We have a law in our state, Brownbackistan, that we must self report all purchases outside the state so we can pay sales tax on it. Yeah, no they collect nothing. Actually I think I heard once they collected about $50 a year total from it. Hasn't even paid for the ink used to write it.

  87. So they want access to falsify evidence.. by xanadu113 · · Score: 1

    So they want access to falsify evidence.. By being able to post fake posts or send fake messages under their name..?

    I see no room for abuse there!

    --
    -Myke
  88. Re:When will they be held liable? Never! by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

    Yah vol, Herr Commandant!

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  89. Caucasians, whites, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure it will be a surprise to all the people of Arabic, Turkic, Indo-Iranian or East Indian peoples to know that they are of Negroid ancestry

    Sorry, but Arabs, Turks, Indians, Pakistani, et al, are Caucasian. As In fact, the Caucasian "Race" was born in the...Caucasus. There are only three basic phenotypes [since the concept of race is outdated and unscientific]: Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid. Differences [that can be huge] in skin color don't make a Turk less Caucasian than Scots or Spaniards.

    The old concept of race has more to do with cranial metrics and other structural features than skin color. And yes, Latin Americans come in the three flavors and more in between. Fidel Castro? Typical Mediterranean Caucasian. Mexico's president? A cross of Mongoloid and Caucasoid. And so it goes.

    1. Re:Caucasians, whites, etc. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Whoooooosh!!!!

  90. No Snap Chat, No Stamp! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can just imagine being denied at the border to France because I couldn't remember my Myspace password...or turned away from China because I don't have a snap chat account (how can I give them the password if I don't have one?). This is as absurd a protection as everyone but children taking off shoes at airports, but it's far more onerous and problematic.

  91. Dual Facebook accounts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is needed is an app that builds a second Facebook account with a clean history, sanitized posts etc

  92. Re:When will they be held liable? Never! by swb · · Score: 1

    If you're going to suggest German Fascism, you might as well get the fucking German right.

  93. All I have is LinkedIn by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    I guess they can have that.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  94. No.. no.. no.. it's called _NETWORKING_! by modi123 · · Score: 1

    Sure they can have my LinkedIn access as long as they connect my account to some super sweet recruiters, with hot job prospects, for me.

  95. Re:When will they be held liable? Never! by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

    You're not following the joke.

    And it was in reference to Hogan's Heroes.

    You might want to get your fucking references right.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  96. Re:When will they be held liable? Never! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoa, you must be quite the wet blanket at parties.

  97. Don't use social media ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't use social media, and I'm pissed off about this. I wonder if I'll get extra special treatment when they ask for my passwords, since there aren't any.
    Bastards!

  98. Re:When will they be held liable? Never! by swb · · Score: 1

    Numb nuts, it's spelled "jawohl", even when an actor on Hogan's Heroes says the line.

  99. Other countries already do this and have for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Other countries already do this and have for years.
    https://www.schneier.com/blog/...

    Well, sorta - visit Israel. They want you to login to your FB, twitter, gmail accounts on their computer. Refuse? Get held for a day and shipped home.

    I don't know my accounts or logins for those systems. Don't use them much. If I wasn't a US citizen, I'd just make a few fake accounts - which would quickly be seen as fake accounts for travel purposes and I'd be shipped home.

  100. Re:Next up in 'Murica FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this rule is being applied to NON-HUMANS. This does not apply to American Humans.

  101. and what if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And what if, shock, horror, you don't use social media and don't have a social media account. Are you refused entry?

  102. And if you have none, then what? by markdavis · · Score: 1

    >"People who want to visit the United States could be asked to hand over their social-media passwords...If they don't want to cooperate then you don't come in."

    And exactly what are you supposed to do if you have no "social media" passwords because you have no such accounts. I have no Facebook, Google+, Twitter, Instagram, etc accounts at all....

  103. distress passwords by Tom · · Score: 1

    So which social media site is the first that will let users configure a distress password?

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  104. I don't have a social media account. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "And any that have my band associated with it are fraudulent, and that picture that looks like a selfie of me that is the profile pic is one someone took of me in public, and photoshopped onto someone else taking a selfie or is an imposter dressed up to look like me; also all the posts made by this person whose account it really is talking glowingly about how great and wonderful violent jihad is, is just meant to embarrass me..."

    Or worse...

    The brutal dictator who runs the government of the country I'm desperately fleeing with my family ALSO required my social media passwords as a condition of leaving the country with a pulse... they are responsible for these posts about bomb-making..."

    This is such a stupid fucking idea, it could ONLY have been concocted to convince drooling submorons that they're actually DOING something while they continue to be feckless and ineffectual, corrupt and incompetent.

    There are so many ways around this that it would only stop a complete idiot, so... glad they're wasting taxpayer money on this.

  105. Pretty sure this is unconstitutional by Chalnoth · · Score: 1

    Courts have frequently extended constitutional protections to people from other countries interacting with the US government. I have a hard time seeing why this would be any different. I seriously hope this gets challenged in court, and the administration loses very badly.

  106. Requesting passwords makes no sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Requesting passwords makes no sense. Domestically stored data is already easily obtainable through third-party doctrine or just purchased. Using the obtained passwords would be illegal. Using them to access foreign servers would be a nightmare diplomatically.

  107. Seriously? You only have one persona? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    How ... quaint ...

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  108. What about insiders ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In recent terror attacks in Europe, terrorists were native europeans.

    So will US next ask its entire population to hand over all their passwords ?
    Or maybe NSA already got them...

    Just my 2p.

  109. Dumbest idea ever by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    If they do not want the TSA guys to look into their accounts they can say they don't have one. Or is that a new rule now that you have to have a Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and Google+ account in order to enter the US?

  110. What will they do if you don't have one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know it may seem impossible to a lot of people, but I see no reason to have a facebook account.

    Would I be banned from entering the country? Would it depend on if I looked "old enough" or "non-techie" enough, that the guard would believe I don't have a facebook account, and was not lying to them?

  111. No FB account; I don't trust Zuckerberg because... by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

    ...I'm not a dumb fuck

    http://www.newyorker.com/magaz...

            ZUCK: yea so if you ever need info about anyone at harvard

            ZUCK: just ask

            ZUCK: i have over 4000 emails, pictures, addresses, sns

            FRIEND: what!? howâ(TM)d you manage that one?

            ZUCK: people just submitted it

            ZUCK: i donâ(TM)t know why

            ZUCK: they âoetrust meâ

            ZUCK: dumb fucks

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
  112. Social media is not social networks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you mean social network passwords? Because there is no such thing as a social media password.

    Social media is the content on social networks, why does commercial mainstream/broadcasting companies keep mixing the two.

  113. Damaging to US business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's legally impossible to comply with such a request - so no way i'm going there. I'll be sourcing my tooling from more democratic countries instead.

  114. I can't even tell them my password by Askmum · · Score: 1

    Apart of some very often used sites where I have to enter my user details every time I access them (like my webmail my computer at home and at work) I can't even tell you my password because I don't remember it. I have to write my passwords down in a file and look them up every time I have to use them. That goes for my Facebook profile (which is logged in on my home computer but I can't access it at work because I don't remember the password) to virtually every webshop I ever bought something and online newspapers.
    So, are they really going to deny me entry if I genuinely don't know the password?

    USA, the land of the free and the home of the brave? I don't think so. The land of the opressed and the home of the frightend.

  115. Make it easier to frame you by zedaroca · · Score: 1

    As soon as you give up your password, it should be reasonable that you can't be accounted for anything that happens in your account(s).
    Also, people reutilize passwords a lot, I guess they are shooting for that too.

  116. Hell NO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, no, no. No, no, no. Data privacy - period. Let the bleeping government have one reason to get anyone's data and they'll have the way to get yours in no time.

  117. Big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They jyst have to change it afterward. Doh!

  118. Re:When will they be held liable? Never! by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

    Not on Hogan's Heroes.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  119. It's because local landline calls are free by tepples · · Score: 1

    Wait hold up, what? It costs more for a landline subscriber to call a cell phone than to call a local landline?

    Because calls from one landline to another in the same city have long been toll-free in the United States, the pricing model for its cellular market is to charge for airtime on each leg of the call so that a landline user doesn't incur unexpected tolls when calling a cell phone. For example, if a cellular carrier's voice toll is ten cents per minute, a call from a landline to a cell phone or vice versa costs the cell phone subscriber ten cents per minute, and a call from a cell phone to another cell phone costs each subscriber ten cents per minute, or a total of twenty cents per minute between the two of them. An SMS is billed as one minute of airtime. (Source: T-Mobile USA's pay-as-you-go plan) The next step up from pay-as-you-go is usually unmetered voice and SMS, both outgoing and incoming, but that costs hundreds of dollars per year.

  120. I am so sad by datadefender · · Score: 1

    I have visited the US over a dozen times. what a beautiful country & great people.
    I have so many friends there.
    But now I will not go there any longer - until the administration behaves again as I expect in a civilized country.
    I foresee the tourist numbers - and thus $$$ revenue dropping now.
    what a shame - I hope I can visit this wonderful country again some day.
    Greetings from myheart to all you americans that have made my many visists to enjoyable

  121. Simple, really by WillyWanker · · Score: 1

    Deactivate all social media accounts before flying. Reactivate once you've reached your destination. Lather, rinse, repeat for the trip home.

  122. Cleanup phone before visiting by Meski · · Score: 1

    If it doesn't have facebook app on it, or facebook on browser memory, It's going to be hard to prove you even have a FB account. Or Twitter, or LinkedIn, etc

  123. Why stop there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why stop with social media passwords? Getting the password for access to their bank account would allow them to do a quick check for money transfers to and from terrorist organizations. And you definitely need to get access to their email. Who knows who they've been talking to! And make them play back their phone's voicemail for all to hear. That message from grandma could contain secret terrorist orders encoded in her cookie recipe!

  124. typo: restless should be rested by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Restless should be rested.

  125. Re:When will they be held liable? Never! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    reference to Hogan's Heroes.

    Irrelevant. And I've never seen that film anyway.

    Joke? What joke? It's just badly misspelled German.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  126. The US is still by far the most desirable by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

    I have been around the world and the US is still the most desirable place to be or do business by far. If you want a socialist paradise or a communist totalitarian state, there are other options. The EU is uncomfortable, dirty, and has about 10 years of life left and then it will fragment as member states go bankrupt under their massive socialist spending and donor states like the UK and Germany leave. Good luck starting a business in the EU. France is deteriorating fast and will become a Muslim majority country around 2050, the radicals they have invited in may turn it into a war zone long before that. Look to the middle east to see how that will turn out. I have hope for the UK, but the world in general is pretty unstable and uncertain.

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
  127. ignoring laws by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

    The problem, as I see it, is when people who I consider reasonable suddenly begin pondering how to break the law, or subvert it, then there is a bigger issue than just "You're breaking the law". you've made law abiding citizens into criminals.

  128. Tourism to US by dddux · · Score: 1

    You can kiss goodbye all the money that comes from tourism. People have lost interest in seeing the US anyway. Uganda and Zimbabwe looks more attractive and you don't have to go through a stripsearch and scorn to get there. The US is all yours "Americans".

    --
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti