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Women Still Underrepresented in Information Security (betanews.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Women make up only 11 percent of the cyber security workforce according to the latest report from the Center for Cyber Safety and Education and the Executive Women's Forum (EWF). The survey of more than 19,000 participants around the world finds that women have higher levels of education than men, with 51 percent holding a master's degree or higher, compared to 45 percent of men. Yet despite out qualifying them, women in cybersecurity earned less than men at every level and the wage gap shows very little signs of improvement. Men are four times more likely to hold C and executive level positions, and nine times more likely to hold managerial positions than women, globally. More worrying is that 51 percent of women report encountering one or more forms of discrimination in the cybersecurity workforce. In the Western world, discrimination becomes far more prevalent the higher a woman rises in an organization.
...garbage disposal and off-shore drilling too! Come on women, WTF!
Nothing in IT offers job security. STEM roles are just far too insecure and unstable in general, is the problem. Of course, that's the problem for older men quite often too.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I look forward to the future where 90% of the jobs are held by women and they receive 200% more pay than males and there will STILL be articles just like this! Because garbage collectors will still be mostly male and something else for women to complain about.
nag nag nag nag nag.... regardless of facts or reality.
Stop applying this as a 1:1 filter..
But I'm too busy getting stepped on to care about anyone else.
Shut the fuck up already. If there are fewer women it's because fewer of them are interested not because evil men want to keep them out.
C'mon girls... You got it. Use it or lose it. Otherwise I figure you just like the abuse.
Yet despite out qualifying them, women in cybersecurity earned less than men at every level and the wage gap shows very little signs of improvement.
Hereâ(TM)s an idea I'd like to float, something that I've never heard considered before: Perhaps there simply isn't a legion of women who want to work in the cybersecurity world?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
continues unabated.
We have 'Switft on Security', whoever HE is. What can go wrong?
@peetm
Don't women get a say? Must they be 50/51% of every field? Maybe pushing women towards a particular field is no better than pushing them away from a particular field. Remove any barriers but let them choose. Maybe some fields are not inherently interesting, we have evolved to have different capabilities and perspectives. If this results in preferences so be it. Let people do what they prefer.
comparing education levels and pay in cybersecurity makes me immediately question this studies conclusions. Anyone working in this industry will be aware that beyond your first job interview your degrees mean less than nothing. Experience and industry knowledge is what earns pay levels in cybersecurity and I am not aware of any of my female colleagues that get paid less for the same job.
Things aren't equal, get fucking over it. No one is crying that there are more women nurses or strippers. STFU already, forced quotas are shit.
Given all the breaches and what not.
Not all ppl, let alone girls, are capable of IT related jobs, especially security. For most individuals, a career in IT comes from a passion about tech at a young age. If a child is not passionate about some aspect of IT, no amount of funding of gender discriminating STEM programs is going to entice someone into the field.
>> Women make up only 11 percent of the cyber security workforce
So what? Thats called FREEDOM TO CHOOSE. Everything shows that's actually by their choice, partly because women are just not mentally as suited as men are to doing jobs like programming.
https://www.netnanny.com/learn...
If you're gonna get up in arms about numeric gender equality, you should be more bothered about why only 9% of nurses are men. Yeah thought not.
http://www.beckershospitalrevi...
Perhaps it's because talking too much isn't really a desirable attribute in this field?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I remember having a conversation with a woman tech executive at a very large company. She told me that she has done everything in her power to attract women into the field and specifically into their workplace. Yet, she was unable to break through this imbalance. And this was the top tech exec at the company and she said they just could not maintain the levels of females in the workforce in their company that she wanted. It was, in fact, far, far, below the levels she wanted.
After being in the tech industry for years, I can honestly say that I really do not encounter the implied institutional discrimination in the tech industry. Is there an imbalance in representation? Yes. However, I feel like these imbalances are indicators of other things. It could be cultural things. It could be something else. Maybe even in specific companies, there is a problem. But I feel like these statistics are more of indicators of some other cause than discrimination within the tech industry as a whole.
If we had unions to fight for work-life / family time in IT jobs! then would we be having this talk?
Are these stories actually voted onto the frontpage by users, or do editor select them? I don't see men with a tech interest voting up such blatant click-bait. Despite their ubiquitous master's degrees in art history, women are still underrepresented in IT – who would've thunk?
Letting women choose as individuals would run contrary to modern feminism where women must exist only as representatives of the group.
I work for a Federal Government Agency. My IA Director is a woman, 2 of the 3 IA Managers are women (each has well over 15 years in the field. That's 75% for management level.) The rest of the IA department is relatively balanced. Our higher headquarters IA Director is female woman of the distaff persuasion, her HQ staff are a very even mix. Our contract staff are also very evenly mixed.
I don't think it's an IT industry issue, I think the issue is with the host industry. I would be willing to bet that if you go to a company that has low representation of females in IT, they probably have low representation of females in other technical/mechanical/engineering type jobs.
If women were really cheaper, companies would be hiring them in droves to reduce cost.
Stop these "news".
Are women underrpresented in garbage disposal.
How's the representation of males in education, medicine, what else?
There are two kinds of people in this world, those that discriminate, and liars. Discrimination is innate to the human condition. Our brains are lazy and take shortcuts in decision making. The sooner we all acknowledge this fact, the better.
Once we acknowledge everyone discriminates, we can stop blaming "other people", and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Everyone is guilty, even the victims. Lets all agree to try harder. The way I see it, it's the only way the situation will improve.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Individual choice derived from conscious, unconscious, and environmental factors? Are you kidding? That's fascism!
There are three women (10%) on the InfoSec team that I'm on at work. All three are team leaders. They kick ass in technological knowledge, carrying the work load, and getting stuff done on time. The few men who had problems with this found jobs elsewhere.
Women are obtaining 61% of the Masters degrees in the US, the majority of which are NOT STEM RELATED! A PoliSci degree does no good for IT, let alone a specialty like IT Security. Can I take my 4 year Mathematics degree and instantly work in the Medical field? How about being a Sociologist? Journalist?
Once again we have pure propaganda creating a false narrative with a single fact where hundreds would need to be analyzed. Do sane people actually have to contemplate why many people call "Leftism" a mental disease?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
The title should be: WOMEN STILL NOT INTERESTED IN BETA PROFESSIONS!!!
It's not men who are to blame, just that women quit their educations because it is "too hard" where men keep on going, it's really women themselves and not men who are to blame for women not meeting the same standards as men..
feminist news. Fuck shitdot
Not in the server room.
So only 11% of workers are female but 10% of managers are female and 20% of C level workers are female and somehow that proves information security female under-representation is because gender discrimination on the field. Who makes this articles?
Sorry, but any job category that has an actual 1:1 male:female ratio is a statistical fluke. Period.
If women want better representation in a given field, the jobs are there. They simply need to have the qualifications to earn them.
And "has a penis" isn't among the qualifications.
Women have equality of opportunity in this country.
But that's not enough for some. They want equality of outcome. Regardless of how stupid the idea is.
In short, anyone, man, woman, any of the umpty-zillion and one self-defined whatevers, if they believe in equality of outcome over equality of opportunity, please do humanity a favor and make sure these people never breed.
The human race is already collectively stupid enough as it is...
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
The underlying assumption is that women want to be "represented" in this field in the first place. Dread the thought that women might not want to do something enough to make the head count ratios match that of the general population.
Women earn about the same for the same work. Deviations are below 5% and it is unclear whom the favor, as this is below the margin of error of such studies. Women are generally not "higher qualified" than men, even if they have more degrees in absolute terms. There are degrees that are easy to get and those that are a lot harder to get. Women have more of the former than men. This whole thing is just a specific type of women trying to make it easy for themselves and get things for free.
That said, these claims just show one thing: It is easy to lie with numbers if you just leave the right bits out. And it shows that people with an agenda like this one are not above lying.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
My wife is better than me at calculus, but she doesn't want to get a STEM degree or work in a technical field. Her own words: "that would be gay and boring". Is that so wrong? She likes doing what she likes doing. She was a great help passing my calc courses, though.
Remove any barriers but let them choose. Maybe some fields are not inherently interesting, we have evolved to have different capabilities and perspectives. If this results in preferences so be it. Let people do what they prefer.
Perhaps they believe they won't succeed in some fields so they don't try. In that case, their barrier is their own prejudice.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
and black, chinks, japs and dogs. What are you going to do about it?|
There irony in a report that screams gender disparities when all five of the press contacts listed are women.
This is yet another agenda-driven piece of baloney that relies on self-reported data, for this vague feeling of harassment, and chicanery with numbers in relation to demographics and pay. Are they comparing pay in comparable roles within a company? If so, then why don't they go legal? Why do actual studies find the difference all but dissipates when controlling for choices made? Despite women graduating with more degrees than men, fewer of them choose STEM. That's why you have fewer candidates for hire. Is it not odd that gender preferences seem to diverge as a society becomes more egalitarian? It's almost as if men and women generally have differing aims in life. Almost as evolution, while it was busy giving us the precision grip and forward facing eyes, also gifted us behaviours conducive to our respective roles in reproduction. Nah, it must be patriarchy!
And what the fuck is a "cyber professional"?
Having higher levels of education do not always mean that they are more qualified.
Especially in fields like cybersecurity, where there are very few degrees that are directed at the field. Experience and certifications count far more than degrees. I don't even have an associates degree, but with over 20 years actively working in the field, I am more qualified than many people who do have degrees.
A very large number of IT ppl would never join a union, because they have analytical minds and can see the pointlessness of giving a chunk of their paycheck to a group that only claims to look out for them, but instead makes themselves comfortable.
A lot of IT ppl believe in meritocracy, not socialism, and would rather avoid the industry destruction they've seen in the automotive market. Bad enough when an incompetent manager is kept around to lead a group, worse still when you can't shake off an incompetent team member skating by bc unions.
Bullshit. One of our core products is cybersecurity solutions. The women who work at our company make every bit as much as the men do, and while there are fewer women in our office than men, there is no wage disparity at all, and there are women at all levels, from entry level coding all the way up to executives.
I get so tired of hearing this wage-gap crap/fake reports, and so do the women I work with.
Remove any barriers but let them choose. Maybe some fields are not inherently interesting, we have evolved to have different capabilities and perspectives. If this results in preferences so be it. Let people do what they prefer.
Perhaps they believe they won't succeed in some fields so they don't try. In that case, their barrier is their own prejudice.
That seems an issue of preparation, of introduction to the field. That's the sort of barrier I would remove. Recall "shop" classes in high school? Similar thing, everyone takes a required "intro to programming" type shop class. For those that happen to be somewhat interested they can take the elective more advanced version of that shop class. Not unlike the successful model of decades past.
Letting women choose as individuals would run contrary to modern feminism where women must exist only as representatives of the group.
It also runs contrary to modern statistics. The data suggests that women as a statistical group have different career experiences than men. The question is why?
Do women have different capabilities? Why?
Do women have different preferences? Why?
Are women given fewer opportunities?
We have seen these stories over and over, but we haven't seen answers to these questions.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
It would be SUPER to firebomb every fuckhead in this entire comment section. My how backward some dumbfucks want to go
That seems an issue of preparation, of introduction to the field. That's the sort of barrier I would remove. Recall "shop" classes in high school? Similar thing, everyone takes a required "intro to programming" type shop class. For those that happen to be somewhat interested they can take the elective more advanced version of that shop class. Not unlike the successful model of decades past.
I know my education in the 90's had exactly that. 8 weeks of shop, 8 weeks of programing, 8 weeks of home economics, 8 weeks of art, 8 weeks of health. Everyone had to take those classes.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Seriously, this is on here every few days, we already know and it's not going to be different by the end of the week either. Give it a year at least then see if much has changed.
I mean if SJWlashdot.org is going to take a stand, they might as well do it right.
That seems an issue of preparation, of introduction to the field. That's the sort of barrier I would remove. Recall "shop" classes in high school? Similar thing, everyone takes a required "intro to programming" type shop class. For those that happen to be somewhat interested they can take the elective more advanced version of that shop class. Not unlike the successful model of decades past.
I know my education in the 90's had exactly that. 8 weeks of shop, 8 weeks of programing, 8 weeks of home economics, 8 weeks of art, 8 weeks of health. Everyone had to take those classes.
Honestly though, I think it still has to do with gender roles in our society has a whole. I remember enjoying shop, programing, home ec., and art class. I was surprised to find sewing just as satisfying as wood working. I think it has to do with making something with my hands. However, I still lean towards the shop and programming activities to this day, and it's probably due to the stigma society puts on home economics as "women's work".
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Choice!
Choices are based generally on two things.
1. Aptitude testing (if you suck at it you probably won't do it)
2. Personal Life Goals
There is no triple secret back room meetings with men claiming "We will help women into and through master level degrees in all areas except for STEM. If a women goes into STEM we won't pay the college bills and we won't hire them.
Belief in such is worthy of institutionalization for insanity.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
You've never worked in an environment with a union have you? All they do is take a $100 or so dollars a month from your pay check (maybe more since it's been a while I've had the unfortunate experience of being in a union shop). When you do need their help they come back saying management can do what they want but you have to give them unwavering support like a cult member. Ask no questions, pay your dues, cross no picket lines, and don't expect anything from them.
- SJWs, clickbait, lies from the media
- counterexamples of nurses and secretaries
- vulgar reference to gender-specific body parts
- don't call me a misogynist!
- Why is this on Slashdot?
Individual choice derived from conscious, unconscious, and environmental factors? Are you kidding? That's fascism!
I think it's the unconscious and environmental factors part that people are getting hung up on.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Bring able to make individual choices is the basis of feminism, you prat. Including modern feminism.
Go ahead, mod me down.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Modern feminism isn't trying to bring equality. Women already have equality. Modern feminism is trying to elevate a small group of professional victims in to positions they're neither qualified for, nor deserve. My wife is a sysadmin, and she didn't have to face some kind of uphill struggle to get there because of her gender. She just had to put in the work to gain the knowledge and then prove she was capable - just like anyone else.
So honestly, fuck all you SJW twats. All you do is belittle the achievements of men and women alike who actually paid their dues to get where they are. It disgusts me that you have so little faith in talented women that you think you need to hold their hand the entire way.
And of course the site uses an image of two supermodels to portray women in infosec :)))) No wonder they're underrepresented
Ask no questions, pay your dues, cross no picket lines, and don't expect anything from them.
You're doing it wrong. When my father had a problem he went straight to top, asked the receptionist which bar the union head was hiding in, and, after she blurts out the bar name, we confronted him in the bar. While father talked to the union head, I stood behind him to make sure he didn't run away. Union heads don't like messing up their $1,000 Italian suits.
Women are underrepresented in dangerous, life threatening jobs. Funny how no one seems to mind when men die at work more often than women.
I don't know about security jobs in particular, but here's one reason why there are fewer women in IT: American IT workers are gradually being replaced with workers from countries in which it's not traditional for women to work outside the home. In their native countries, and in the US after they come here, the men go to work, and the women stay home.
So the SJWs can
1) Accept the situation as it is, because they don't want to try to change other people's culture.
2) Try to persuade Indian immigrant women to change their culture, and learn programming and apply for jobs.
3) Try to persuade more American women to learn programming, and apply for jobs.
4) Ask the US government to reduce the number of foreign-born STEM workers.
5) Just keep complaining about the gender imbalance. (I think that's the option that the SJWs will choose.)
Bring able to make individual choices is the basis of feminism, you prat. Including modern feminism.
In theory. In practice some choices are more "correct" than others. Never underestimate the ability of politicians and their minions to screw up a good idea.
That's a great idea, but I think you'll still wind up with fewer women interested in programming. Being interested in programming means you're willing to spend hours and hours alone in front of a screen, cursing in frustration at life, the universe and everything. Few men and fewer women voluntarily put up with that kind of abuse.
There will never be a point, though, when the feminists say "oh, women just don't want to do these shitty jobs." They'll still blame the men.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Remove any barriers but let them choose. Maybe some fields are not inherently interesting, we have evolved to have different capabilities and perspectives. If this results in preferences so be it. Let people do what they prefer.
We did evolve to have different interests. Right now men have no barriers to entry in any job it seams. The results in some industries are staggering as it is obvious that men prefer jobs like mining, offshore drilling, sewage construction and maintenance, garbage collection, fishing industry, military, etc and tend to forego cushy office jobs. Just by looking at female representation, it becomes clear that females evolved to lack interest in position mentioned above. Too bad. Men are having all the fun.
Comments like more women have Master's degrees than Men related to InfoSec skills how?
And it seems like they're talking discrimination at the management and above level. That's something that's hardly limited to InfoSec
That's quite a leap.
Women don't work as well. It's good that they aren't being placed into these jobs, driving the industry and the economy to hell so CERTAIN PEOPLE can grab pussy
FTFY
nomsg
It's all fluff all the time. Submitters are lazy and don't look for meaty stories. Readers get riled up about the crap stories and post A LOT to them, more than they do to a story of substance. Thus, the junk story feedback loop you see.
100% of men in Cybersecurity have faced discrimination.
I don't give a damn
And men are underrepresented in teaching and nursing.
And white people are underrepresented in professional sports.
Except NASCAR...where we need to conscript minorities.
These days, with ubiquitous computers, if a kid isn't programming well before high school, the ship has already sailed.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Thanks to garak on ds9 I was not afraid of seeing being women's work... unfortunately I have big stupid man fingers and was no good at it. So I became a spy.
Men ONLY MAKE UP 3% of Preschool & Kindergarten Teachers! WHY ARE WE NOT SCREAMING ABOUT THIS?!?!?!
http://www.menteach.org/resour...
This MUST be some kind of conspiracy to keep MEN out of these jobs!!!!! We need action NOW!
Paper people. I have met so many people in IT with advanced degrees who have zero experience. Equal pay for equal ability.
You're asking the wrong question. The data suggests that men as a statistical group have different career experiences than women. The question is why?
Do men have different capabilities? Why?
Do men have different preferences? Why?
Are men given fewer opportunities?
We have seen these stories over and over, but we haven't seen answers to these questions.
But it won't matter in a decade. There are already transmales* trying to push "men menstruate too" as education to kids. Male, female, man, woman aren't going to mean anything in the future. It'll be "Wow you're acting masculine today Mr" and then ten minutes later, "Nice nail-work girl". Acting masculine means you're a man and acting feminine means you're a women, so your identity flip-flops directly based on what society thinks are male/female qualities and what you're doing at any time. Those are the new definitions being pushed by the people I know in the trans community. You're not allowed to act masculine as a female, you become male if you do (completely opposite of the "everyone is just themselves" I grew up with). Once the gender terms are meaningless the stats about them will be meaningless too. I wonder if a larger percentage of transmales are in IT.
*Female to male, with or without surgery. For you old folks, substitute with "tomboy"
You can easily setup the union with little to no dues and have it come together only when enough people ask for it. Or everyone pays in but when you leave you get out everything you paid. The basic point of paying is to have saved funds available to pay workers on strike so they can keep eating while striking. If your union is spending that money on lawyer fees when there isn't an active case or on wages for union management then you were simply scammed from a good sales person.
You can make your union whatever you want it to be. If you guys don't want protection from random firings then don't write that into the contacts. Simple! Your company has poor management? Put in anyone with enough "out" votes get fired no questions asked. Done.
Unions got us the 40 hour work week. Oh wait, IT doesn't have that anymore. Unions also got us paid over time. Oh wait, IT is excluded again. Analytical minds my ass. Air heads would be a better description of most people.
Why should men have to do all the work? We need to force these lazy parasites to abandon their children and get out into the work force.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Don't women get a say? Must they be 50/51% of every field?...
This discussion is definitely 5150 every time
Until I see any concern about how under represented men are in HR, speech therapy, and a host of other roles this is just special interest groups looking for special handouts and playing the victim card. I'll pay attention when they actually want equality. To date I've never seen any special interest group (ie gender / ethnic / etc) that was really looking for equality. They are all just looking for special rights and a chance to play the victim card.
Companies like, American Express, yes I stated a company by name, and from first hand knowledge. They hire, women even if there are internal candidates that are straight males that are qualified. They will hunt for six, nine, 12 months or more to hire some cliche' minority they can satisfy some moral feel-good self appointed goal of. There are "diversity" groups for everyone but the American Breeding Male. The effort to khumbaya everyone has resulted in the polarization of people based on whatever the flavor of the week is; sexuality, race, nationality, sexual preference or religion. It's a damned shame we cannot just be peers and have beers and accept one another without this polarizing demarcation that the media eats up.
Men are underrepresented as Pre-School teachers. It is overwhelmingly women. Where is the outrage over that? Asian men are underrepresented in the NBA. African American women are underrepresented as Librarians. Who gives a shit?
This reminds me of that idiotic argument that female tennis players at Wimbledon should make the same as the male competitors. Yeah - except that the men play 5 sets (not 3 like the ladies do), and the audience is overwhelmingly larger for the mens events (and, by extension the advertising dollars). Yet Wimbledon succumbed to political pressure. Same tactic here I suppose.
Counterpoint: you just described women on Facebook.
If you do, you might as well not submit anything.
I tried to shorten mine like D.C. Fontana, but I am not allowed.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
More SJW non-issue bullshit to demoralize society. Literally nobody gives a shit, people.
Women can only be underrepresented if they actually want to be represented. By definition they are not underrepresented. If they wanted to be represented, they wouldn't be underrepresented because they would be working should to shoulder with everyone else already in the field.
BUUULLLLLSHIT!
Now then, where's the drive to bring in more male nurses and school teachers? What about care givers? Social services? There actually is social stigma to a small degree here. It's actually a problem, but you don't hear men complaining about it. Grow the fuck up.
Research shows that, as a group, only men pay tax:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/p...
http://judgybitch.com/2016/08/...
Hmm,
look at marissa mayer and whats she has brought to the table, CEO of (i'm not sure what it's called, Yahoo?)
How about the CEO of that company called Theranos
or
lets look at, betsy dEvos theres a real winner..
or
Hmmm,
how about the x-ceo of HP, carly fIorina
or how about mEg whitmann from HP/Ebay.. didn't her and carly try to buy a California Election and lost miserably??
Ya, Hmmm look @ the legacy these individuals have left for others to look up to??
But on a positive note, Lets look at Condolezza Rice, she made some great strides, Harriet Tubman, Mary Currie, Susan B. Anothny, Anna Nicole Smith, Nancy Regan, Brandy, Jannet jackson, etc..
But unfortunately its the most recent news that seem to stick the most..
Some of those people are other women btw, you sexist shitlord.
Rephrase the questions like this:
Do women have different career experience in other countries? Any country but US?
Then ask why the youngest country in the world has the worst treatment against women....
Tell that to the radical kill all men feminists.
What's that? You don't count those?
How inclusive of you.
If women want to be CEOs, let them earn it like Martha Stewart and Oprah Winfrey.
Is there a way to BAN idiot authors like this clickbait moron?
Truth and lies are often neighbours.
True, there are less women working in Information Security.
False, it has anything to do with discrimination. In fact, the job market right now is so good that I cannot for the life of me believe any company would turn down a woman or risk making her not take the offer by paying her less. Right now I know of several customers who are dying to hire qualified IS people (if you're anywhere in central Europe and/or willing to relocate, contact me).
Neighbourhood: Several studies about the alleged "gender pay gap" already revealed that the actual causes of the gap is that, statistically speaking, women have less years of experience at the same age, more gaps in their careers and CVs, and negotiate worse. Some of that may be gender-related, but it's not the same as crying "discrimination".
Whenever I am leading a team, I personally am happy to have a good mix of men and women, it tends to give the broadest perspective and the best results. But if you have an imbalance, you should look for the underlying reasons, not just paint a buzzword over it.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Trade classes in highschool are almost completely devoid of women. By second year, there's even fewer. Colleges get very few female applicants. Even for weekend 'hobby' courses.
Meanwhile these same guys are reading Clymer guides and Haynes manuals go home at night, and are ripping apart their cars, welding in their garages, but few women ever try. Why? Is their father, husband or son oppressing them? do you think these kids are given welders from their parents and shown how to use them? As I recall, girls had *more* discretionary income as teenagers than boys. It was much easier for a girl to find a steady job after school. Yes, retail, sales, etc, but what else can you do as a highschool kid?
I was dumpster diving to get electronics components when I was 10, building computers from crap and my only social outlet for it was in online forums where gender wasn't discussed. I liked girls, I talked to girls, before puberty I connected with them better on a personal level. They weren't interested in computers and I had no idea why. Were they interested in math and science? yes... no question. Computers? I knew *one* girl, *one* who showed the same passion for programming and hacking around with computers as the guys. She grew obsessed with a BASIC program as a kid and refined and honed it until it did exactly what she wanted. She went on to university and studied computer science, but never graduated and that affected her career prospects.
Why don't women go into infosec? why don't women go into trades?
"Patriarchy" is mental laziness.
I don't know why and you don't either.
These questions are addressed in endless studies. It's a shame people always mod links to them down.
Here is a very detailed study that answers the questions you asked, and offers solutions: http://www.jite.informingscien...
From there it is easy to find more information:
http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/... - problems in education
http://www.npr.org/sections/al... - work culture
And since someone always claims that the stats are wrong, here are some experts explaining that the gap is real: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/...
It would be great if we could actually discuss this stuff for once instead of all the "we just don't know" hand-wringing.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Actually, you're both right.
Whenever any of the "spokespersons" of the feminist community are asked, the answer is always that more women should do (high paying job in question, e.g. IT), "but not me". Individually, every woman should be able to hold the job that she wants, but statistically, women must be have at least 50% of jobs in every high-paid profession, even when none of the women in question individually wants those jobs.
Do those strawwomen actually exist? Never met one in my life, and I've frequented all sorts of feminists.
There's nothing like $HOME
It's more like, a lot of people in IT think they are the shit and don't need any collective bargaining or union because they are above average and will negotiate a better than average salary/conditions anyway.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
...a field who's aim is secrecy and security to be filled by a gender that lists GOSSIPING as one of their worst faults?
Apparently there's a discount on labour and companies are too stupid to take advantage of it. If you hire a woman they'll do the same work for less money, based on these studies.
It's very odd to me, because companies will go to such extreme measures to lower the cost of labour; such as installing machines, sending labour to 3rd world countries that are at war, and reducing consumer purchases of their products by hiring substandard labour.
But there's this huge discount staring them in the face, and apparently every single employer on the planet is mentally handicapped.
Why doesn't the person writing the article start their own company? They've already figured out a way to offer products at a significant discount and close this gap they're unhappy with. By the time they're done, they'll be as big as Weyland-Yutani and there will be no men working at all.
I'm serious. I'm a man and I'm tired of working. Get on it already.
It isn't just long hours (and 24/7 on-call) or physical labor (frankly, most of them in my experience outright refuse to go down into a dirty crawlspace to yank a heavy data or power cable as the "nuclear option") that they shy away from. Very few of them, regardless of an alphabet soup of degrees, can deal with the mathematics required for crypto and sometimes on-the-spot algorithm development needed in this field if you want to be an actual leader in it instead of a clueless windbag that mainly does PR. Even most men aren't suited for that, which is why we end up with some of the more egregious data breach horror stories that we do. This, on top of most people in the IT field lacking the ability (or the authority) to properly design large systems and their defense layers, has lead to one disaster after another.
It also doesn't help that the field has a sordid reputation thanks to Hollywood, with the majority of infosec characters being portrayed as shady and willing to sell out to "the bad guy", or outright criminals from the start. This portrayal has done a lot of harm to the perception of IT in general, and infosec in particular. With this sort of negative reputation instilled in the minds of the general populace, it's frankly amazing that any women whatsoever are in the field (and this perception can and does play into how non-technical staff view their IT co-workers and how they treat them).
The social aspects of being in and what it takes to be in infosec would make for an interesting long-term study. I also wonder why more people in the IT field haven't seriously pushed back against the negative Hollywood portrayal of them. So far, it's been mostly crickets chirping and Milton stapler jokes.
Go ahead, mod me down.
It's not working, you're already on +3. But it is a +3 Troll mod, so that's something!
SJW n. One who posts facts.
"This paper assesses gender disparities in federal criminal cases. It finds large gender gaps favoring women throughout the sentence length distribution (averaging over 60%), conditional on arrest offense, criminal history, and other pre-charge observables. Female arrestees are also significantly likelier to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted. Prior studies have reported much smaller sentence gaps because they have ignored the role of charging, plea-bargaining, and sentencing fact-finding in producing sentences."
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002
And that's only one facet of gynocentric privilege in the injustice system. Thank social injustice AND chivalry.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
Score 1: Troll. Should be renamed "Score 1: Uncomfortable truth".
Seriously, Slashdot needs to make up-votes count more than down-votes, because too many people abuse overrated/troll as their personal "I disagree" mod.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Seriously. If women want to get into that profession, what stops them?
Also, there are more women who choose to be stay home mom, and we should absolutely yank these women from their home and let the man to be stay home dad (aka dead beat dad)
But, we now have spectrum of gender identities. How do you know the man sit next to you are not woman inside? When the woman sit next to you is identify as man, do you double count, count it as woman, count it as man and they should have their own category? When it is a spectrum, do you do scatter plot now, or bar chart ... and dump peoples into a category ... that doesn't sound the right things to do ?
Where do these women get their degree? When I was in school, 30 yrs ago. I can count how many women in my classes with 1 finger.
The average of 1-3, 3 month sabbaticals (pregnancy/maternity leave) has a large impact on a life time. Average hours worked is another. Single, childless women make more on average than comparable men.
http://www.nber.org/digest/apr11/w16582.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/coontz-richer-childless-women-are-making-the-gains.html
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-001-x/2009103/article/10823-eng.htm /u/rallymech
The article starts with a claim "women have higher levels of education than men," which might be true, but it has nothing to do with underrepresentation of women in Information Security. The relevant information would be the percent graduates in computer science. When I googled for that, I found that only 18% of CS graduates were women. (Source: http://www.aauw.org/research/s...). So though there are more women with degrees, most of those degrees have nothing to do with CS.
Then there was a claim that "women make up only 11 percent of the cyber security workforce". I don't know where this number came from. Based on statistics provided by US Department of Labor, there are 18.1 percent of women in Information security analysts. Source: https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/C...
Counter-counterpoint: that's something everyone can see. I think women are more social than men. You can get women to geek out on something like photography, or fashion design, the end result of which is seen and appreciated by other women. But programming? Nobody gives a shit about your clever little algorithm or the vexxing bug that took 2 days to track down. Programming is mostly a solitary, lonely pursuit that no one gives a shit about.
Counter-counter-counterpoint: with the advent of twitch streaming-type stuff for programmers (I've seen this mentioned on slashdot before, where some coders will livestream their coding session and talk about what they're doing and why) this could actually become a social activity that would attract more women. At this point there will definitely be an issue with sexism, because the chat screen will be filled with demands the programmer show everyone her tits.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Women still haven't reached parity in workplace fatalities. Protesters vowed to do their part by jumping like lemmings into a wood chipper until enough awareness was raised to end this injustice.
Quit writing this SJW crap and get a job in the field, spend 20 years working your way up in experience and seniority, maybe then you'll get better pay, etc.
What a travesty!! I hear they are also still underrepresented as donors at sperm banks... those darn patriarchs!!
Your version of feminism is out of date. Women having individual is not a feminist act because womyn have to think in a collectivist attitude. Just because you can make patriarchy work for you doesn't mean patriarchy is good.
feminism is cancer.
Yeah, they've got their own TV shows.
Oprah's was even pretty popular for a while.
Excellent response. I found that Iowa State paper very informative. However, my question was Socratic, and the parent has yet to respond.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
No, employers don't fill their ranks with women when/if the hiring managers are men, because of the 'just-like-me' bias. A man is more likely to hire a man, no matter how much he claims to be enlightened. It's human nature, and some of the largest most successful companies in the world are now waking up to this inherent bias and are trying to change it. Other companies are taking on the secretive nature of compensation by publishing or making available, salary data to employees, and even making adjustments when needed to get to parity.
Let's address also the "women COST employers more" argument, because hey why not.
WHY are fathers largely more available, or focused, etc. than mothers on the job? Because they either 1.) have a stay at home partner in the home or 2.) have a truly egalitarian arrangement with their partners for home and child care, or family in the area. In short, because they have HELP, there is some other PERSON available to worry about the family details. Do you think it is a coincidence that many women (but not ALL), who reach the top of their fields, become CEOs, serve on corporate boards never marry, or if they do, they never have a family?
The lack of family friendly policies by employers and no support from the government for same is just about the most short sighted policy in the history of the entire world. You would think that corporations, which exist in perpetuity and need customers, employees, etc to support that perpetuity would understand their role in the perpetuation of our species.
Women have had to be Ginger Rogers, doing everything backwards and in heels, for a long time. In any industry or position where they wanted to make a difference. The smart, talented and dedicated women have to run rings about their male counterparts just to be considered acceptable.
Anyone who feels they should be given a position and salary because of attributes they can't chose or change like gender (fungible, I know), race, nationality and the like is not going to be welcome or popular or gain respect, no matter what. So why dwell on the women who want to skate into a cushy position and salary? When you take out that argument and pair it with "well, I'm not talking about the women who really work for it", it sounds a lot like a clueless white person denigrating non-white people but excluding the people of color they know as "well, I'm not talking about him or her or that group".
What is left after you break that down? just your inherent, natural, totally human bias which was helpful when we lived communally in caves and had to recognize our peers. Not so helpful now.
Over 15 yrs of experience. Find a little bit of prejudice out there, but hell...that's been everywhere in IT. I even see it with those women that created Brainbabes. Stupid demeaning name. Just another crappy head hunting group trying to manipulate, part of CyberSN.
I think the problem would go away if we would stop importing or outsourcing workers. If there are jobs to be had, women will fill them if encouraged and welcome.
QQ moar cuck.
I work for a public organization, where they would absolutely salivate over hiring any underrepresented group.
In our last round of basic technician hiring, 150 or so people who applied for two positions.This was a job posted well ahead of time, to most of the government jobs websites.
Only two women applied. Of them, one failed the first written exam, and the second failed her hands on test because she didn't want to lift a PC ( job description included lifting 50 pounds occasionally).
The management was tearing out their hair trying to figure out why this was happening.
My wife voluntarily stopped working to raise our 2 children. 7 years later and she is thinking about going back to work. She has a degree in International Studies and is a very intelligent woman. She was considering going into accounting - she has an amazing work ethic and did not care what she did - as long as it paid well (see where this is going?), I suggested to her that coding was less difficult than learning a new language and showed her the pay rates for proficient coders who are management material locally: $USD80,000-$USD170,000 per annum. I logged her onto Khan Academy.
Three months later and this woman has surpassed my coding skills. In another month or so I would suggest she has reached the average skill of any professional coder here (with better theory). She will ACE her first interview (she is also beautiful) and I have no doubt she will soon be managing a group of male coders on close to $USD200,000. Such is the advantage of being a female in the Information Sciences. I can retire and keep being kept in the way I have become accustomed, being just a man.
I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for these women. They have every door open already.
I wouldnt expect many people with choices to become a trucker these days. Automated vehicles, and all that. IT is arguably in disrepute after so much outsourcing. Why would anyone want to join a shrinking job field to compete with entrenched veterans for less pay?
https://www.google.com/search?...
Yes.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?