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This Year's H-1B Visa Applications Look A Lot Like Last Year's (newsweek.com)
"This year's round of H-1B visa program applications was scheduled to launch Monday, and it was largely absent of President Donald Trump's proposed policy changes," writes Newsweek. An anonymous reader quotes their report:
The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services last updated its online page dedicated to the program, which granted visas to skilled foreign workers, Wednesday with the rules mostly similar to those of last year and quotas remaining the same. These requirements were set to launch despite Trump's vow to reform the program on the grounds that companies exploited it to fill jobs once held by U.S. citizens who earned higher wages.
An alleged draft of an executive order was leaked last month and widely circulated, raising fears that the administration was preparing to gut the program. These measures were never announced. "There was a window in which the White House could have made serious reforms," Russ Harrison, head of government relations for the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers-USA, told The Wall Street Journal. "For whatever reason, they decided not to take it."
An alleged draft of an executive order was leaked last month and widely circulated, raising fears that the administration was preparing to gut the program. These measures were never announced. "There was a window in which the White House could have made serious reforms," Russ Harrison, head of government relations for the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers-USA, told The Wall Street Journal. "For whatever reason, they decided not to take it."
Imagine that, trump sold out his voters.
Big fucking surprise...Trump is more concerned about his own ego and self-image than keeping his word.
You get what you vote for.
The story is framed as bad but isn't it better that they take some time to craft a reasonable update to the policy? Trump has been president just a bit over two months now!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Trump is a Businessman, he does what he is paid to do. Rich multi-national outsourcing companies clearly pay well to keep replacing American workers with third world minimum wage workers.
Why do slashdotters hate government clampdowns on freedoms except when it comes to H1B visas? I fucking hate the hypocrisy of it all.
Our company hired 80 of them last year and plan to hire a further 100 this year.They are often times (not always) superior to the homegrown talent that comes through our doors looking for a job.
If you have a problem with H1B tech workers then make yourself a better candidate, FFS.
He only wanted your votes. He hires Mexicans to build his properties and uses shady contractors to cut costs doing so maintaining them.
Joke is on you for thinking he would be different. You can't be pro automation and pro free market and libertarian and cry wahaha it's not fair ai have to compete too?
http://saveie6.com/
Imagine this: you live in the slums in Mumbai. Your father goes thru trash every day, hoping to find tin cans to sell, and your mother tries to sell home-made bread on the market to feed all of your 6 brothers and sisters. Now you get the opportunity to get a three year degree in software engineering and go to the U.S. to work for a tech company. You have no clue about all the politics surrounding H1-B in the U.S., and you don't know that you will be grossly underpaid comparing to your American peers.
Who would not take this opportunity with both hands?
I've worked with many Indian people on an H1-B, and my anecdotal evidence is that they really are just like everyone else. Some are good, some are a bit less. But all share the same hope and dreams of being able to permanently stay in the U.S. and doing it the legal way.
Instead of only discussing those pesky Indians taking American jobs, let's keep this in mind as well. Let's focus on the companies that are responsible for the abuse of the program. Southern California Edison, Disney, etc. Wipro and Infosys committing visa fraud. These are the bad guys, not Balu from Bombai.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
Wait, are you telling me that once again Trump *didn't* help his voters in favor of his rich business associates? You know, this together with the gutting of the FCC and the EPA almost, *almost*, makes me think that he's not trying that hard to make America great again.
I know you can't see my face right now, but if you could, it would have a look of surprise.
Anyone from the nyc building trades will tell you Trump never ran a tight ship. His buildings are a confusing headache to work with and work in. He's an idiot, not a manager and certainly not a good business man. He just played one on TV.
That said the Visa program is yet another corporate scam. If they do get it together to "reform" it I'll be surprised that they were walking and chewing gum but it would be a good thing.
No. I don't want to keep that in mind. Indians should fix India. I see little reason to give a damn that Indians can't be bothered to take a shot at a first rate society while they leech ours, driving down our standard of living.
The program is repeatedly lobbied for by these companies. It needs to go. That, or these companies should relocate to Mumbai and America should embargo their goods/services and release their patents to the public so that new startups can fill the void. Infosys and friends can see how well SaaS and other insanely overpriced abstract IT rubbish sell to people who can't keep the lights on and who think proper sanitation is shitting in fields and on beaches.
Either way, you are killing their American Dream, racist.
can't seem to find a placement. It looks like the consulting firms prefer to place H-1B Visa programmers because there is a lot more profit in it for them.
Please. He said one thing and did another.
"Did" would imply he is done doing things. We are only two months into his administration of his FOUR YEARS of dong things based on what he said. You can talk about what Trump "did" after the first four years are up...
But even if he doesn't - are you an idiot? It would appear so because you seem to believe campaign promises, and if there was a surer sign of an idiot I've never seen it.
No Trump voter voted for Trump based on promises of what would be done. They all voted for Trump based on what he was not in general, and what he was in general. Everyone know specific campaign promises mean nothing.
The FCC to let ISPs throttle your connections and sell your browsing history show the GOPs intentions otherwise
You say that like the GOP and Trump are the same thing. As was shown by the healthcare bill, plainly they are not - Trump is our first third party president.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
you're a fucking idiot. Trump is the president, not the congress. And, you're so remarkably stupid that you don't even realize that the congress voted to CONTINUE Obama's policy for the last 8 years.
Oh that patronizing response again. I don't remember your side "getting over it" when you were the losers. We got to look at your "Impeach Obama" bumper stickers and the rest of your crap for eight years.
Guess what. We're not going away. So you can just Shut The Fuck Up with your "get over it" crap. We're totally going to be in your fucking face for the next 45 months. Get used to it.
They are just like everyone else. We also have people just like everyone else here in the United States. We should stop fucking over our own citizens with policies that might be nice to some kid from the slums of Mumbai. His problems are not ours to fix.
you don't like it? LEAVE
I agree Trump is way better option than we had with Hitlery! She sold us out to various Nations and she wasn't even Pres. Imagine with that pantsuit hag would have done as Pres. That witch is corrupt to the core! The DNC is corrupt. Bernie is a sellout as well. We have the best option for president.
So move to Mexico millennials, SJWs, and Libtards. We won't miss you.
I see a lot of comments from people who didn't vote for Trump that seem angry he isn't keeping Pajeet from joining your IT department. Hillary wasn't going to and you voted for her, so why aren't you happy? I'm still happy because I think Trump will do it eventually, probably after he resolves the situation with activist judges fighting to let terrorists fly in. If you're getting what you want in the meantime then you should be happy too.
and benghazi? It's to do with that isn't it?
Who's the bigger fool, the fool or the fool who voted for him?
No. I don't want to keep that in mind. Indians should fix India.
UK fucks up India
UK spawns another nation
Indians go to that nation for jobs
epyT-R cries about it
Indians laugh.
I see little reason to give a damn that Indians can't be bothered to take a shot at a first rate society while they leech ours, driving down our standard of living.
That is what they are doing. The culture that spawned our culture shit on their culture, and now they're trying to get their shit back together. You can whine about the outcome all you like, but all you're doing is crying about how you can't shit on other people without consequences. You're still profiting from what the UK did to India, and you don't want to see it fixed.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Putting an "Impeach Trump" bumper sticker on your car won't get it keyed - it takes no balls to do that.
But putting a "Darwin" fish on my first car (a 1960 Dodge Dart) was enough to get my car scratched up by the fuckhead who stole it, presumably because they were offended that I put some reality on the back of a classic American car.
Get it straight, if conservatives had balls, they wouldn't be afraid of equality.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'm happy to take a lower salary if it helps people out in the slums of India.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
No. I don't want to keep that in mind. Indians should fix India. I see little reason to give a damn that Indians can't be bothered to take a shot at a first rate society while they leech ours, driving down our standard of living.
The program is repeatedly lobbied for by these companies. It needs to go. That, or these companies should relocate to Mumbai and America should embargo their goods/services and release their patents to the public so that new startups can fill the void. Infosys and friends can see how well SaaS and other insanely overpriced abstract IT rubbish sell to people who can't keep the lights on and who think proper sanitation is shitting in fields and on beaches.
Exactly. Let these "best and brightest" fix their own country.
Found the bot, again. It was tough.
So it's OK for dad to lie to Americans? And it's OK for dad's supervisors lie to Americans? Your dad isn't alone in taking my wrath. Our pinko and chief has said, "America First." H1B visas put America NOT first. I've worked with Ginness's, they don't need to be "trained" to do their job. But for some magical reason, Disney's mickey mouse managers, and SoCal-Eddy's-Son have to train H1B visa holders, then the trainers are fired/lay-off/what-ever.
Go back to breitbart.
Putting an "Impeach Trump" bumper sticker on your car won't get it keyed - it takes no balls to do that.
But putting a "Darwin" fish on my first car (a 1960 Dodge Dart) was enough to get my car scratched up by the fuckhead who stole it, presumably because they were offended that I put some reality on the back of a classic American car.
Get it straight, if conservatives had balls, they wouldn't be afraid of equality.
If progtards had brains, they wouldn't equate racial and sexual quotas with equality.
When you count by race and sex, you're by definition racist and sexist.
How much less would you be happy with?
10%?
50%?
Not having a job at all?
If Indians really want their country back they should overthrow their corrupt, sell-out government and take it back. You've got a nice selective view of history, btw.
Perhaps you are but others may not be able to afford such a luxury.
Gotta love the hypocrisy. When Slashdotters talk about Mexicans, it's all "no human is illegal", "tear down the wall", etc. But when a brown person comes not to steal some redneck farmer's job, but their own hipster techie job, then suddenly locking down borders and deporting people becomes okay.
Bullshit!!!!!
You haven't actually talked to those Indians about their backgrounds.
All those H1B Indians come from wealthy Indian families. Those dirt poor Indians simply don't have the opportunity to get a degree and get to the USA.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Calm down, bro. We know your Dad owns a dealership.
I don't want to give up my job just because some poor person needs the money more than I do. Further, I have no moral obligation to do so.
It is morally acceptable to act in one's own best interest. It is in the country's best interest to have a significant pool of technical talent in the digital economy. And it is in my best interest to resist the market effects that cheap foreign labor can have on my salary. Further, given the current real-world circumstances, it is in the American consumer's best interest that their software be made by Americans who understand their culture and are loyal to their country.
Poverty sucks, horribly, and there is a damn lot of it in the world. I would like to see that problem solved. But H1-B is not going to put a dent in the problem, and you know it.
Even now, the poverty-stricken in the world have better access to clean water than ever before in human history, and this achievement had nothing to do with an H1-B visa program.
Compassion is good. Yours is misdirected. You need to be smarter about how you help...so you don't destroy your local economy by doing so.
Source? Infowars doesn't count.
I'm happy to take a lower salary if it helps people out in the slums of India.
You can do so by donation. Forcing everyone, even those on the edge, to lose out because it makes you feel good is unethical.
Trump dropped the ball, it's that simple. But, even if the wheels of government turn slowly, at least they turn at all. The bad H1-B visa program can still be repaired someday in the future.
But....I am more inclined to believe that Trump just huffed and puffed about putting Americans first so that he would get elected. You know...the way all presidents do. We never really know a president's agenda until after they have executed on it, and even then we never know all of it.
Politics is not a competition. There is no winning or losing. Trump is a divisive moron. Stop being a mindless sheep.
I can't speak for the others, but I think people who are here illegally should be sent home and that the H1B program should be heavily modified or scrapped. Race has nothing to do with it.
Hahahaha "embargo their goods"
LOLLLLLL
In that case nobody should ever emigrate anywhere.
Why did your ancestors go to the country you are in now?
Funny, it takes about 150 people in a government team to craft a reasonable policy over 3 years, but you think a campaign team should be able to write several dozen in 2 years, while running the campaign? Let me guess, you "supported" Bernie but didn't actually get around to voting.
So taking our jobs wasn't good enough, now they take our dreams? FFS
Yes, and while you keep shouting USA USA USA and USA First, the rest of the world will simply go USA last.
Why should any other country take US made goods ?
Its only worth $2 Trillion to the US economy
Likewise, people from all around the world are avoiding the USA now, hundreds of billion is lost revenue from Tourists
The USA makes up 4% of the worlds population and 20% of the worlds GDP, Asia makes up over 60% of the population, Chinas GDP is already bigger than the US and it will not be too many years before the EU is bigger too, and Asia is where all the consumer growth is, does the USA want to be locked out of that ? Tell us what happens when Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Twitter, HP, Dell, Amazon, Walmart, etc etc etc get locked out of Asia, it may well be the Americans go to Asia to find jobs. Alibaba is already massively more profitable than Amazon.
Mastercard does it.
If progtards had brains, they wouldn't equate racial and sexual quotas with equality.
Oh, we've gone from libtards to progtards. How droll. Shall I call you a conservitard in return? How about I just cut to the chase and call you a plain old retard? (Thanks to Twitler we're long past the need to be politically correct.)
I'm happy to have you call me a libtard or a progtard because I know it means instead of spouting whatever tripe President Brannon, Kellyann, and Vladimir tell you to think, I can think for myself. I know my side doesn't need to resort to nonsense like gerrymandering election districts, or passing laws to inhibit and intimidate voters, or any of the other dirty tricks your side uses to rig elections. When your side stops that shit I'll start taking you seriously again. You and your side's "win at any cost even though we're the minority" mentality proves to me that you're morally bankrupt. And the fact that you post as AC just further confirms to me how broken you really are.
I haven't heard of French parents scaling the walls of a school to help their kids cheat in exams.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
they're the Indian middle class. I don't know why it's so hard for Americans to understand that India has a middle class. They're a country of over a billion people.
These aren't refugees from poverty, they're mostly folks coming over here to take advantage of the currency differences with the plan to go back home with fat stacks of cash. A lot don't because they have kids, they kids put down roots and they stay around. But they're not escaping poverty. If you want those guys than ban the Indians are let the Syrians in. They're not just escaping poverty, they're escaping genocide.
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and he's got the power to do it via Executive Orders. He won the election by a hair's breath and part of that was tech workers who want their jobs back. It's not unreasonable to expect a man who's portrayed as a great negotiator and who's party controls a super majority in Congress could get some Executive Orders done. American Tech workers are suffering now. They don't want to wait another year, two or 4. If they wanted to be patient they could have thrown their lot in with Hilary.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
people want the government to keep _them_ safe. Them. No the other guy. The other guy just needs to work harder and stop leaching off them.
The best quote I've heard in years came from a CNN pundit calling Rick Santorum to task over his opposition to Medicaid for the poor. She said Nobody's a Conservative when it comes to their family. She was right, too.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
anyone else remember seeing "Don't re-nig"?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I haven't met any Trump supporters that have been open about it first hand besides family members, but I am pretty sure the ones complaining about H1B workers in the worst ways are also complaining about illegal immigrants in the worst ways. I doubt "hipster techies" are saying illegal immigration is fine and dandy but fuck all H1B workers. I consider myself left and think some companies are exploiting H1B and illegal immigrants for their own gain, on the other hand, shutting down both completely is likely going to lead to some issues. I also have no issue with H1B workers themselves as they are taking a golden opportunity being offered to them and I'd do the same in their shoes.
Companies should be allowed to employ foreign workers if they simply cannot find local talent, but they should be required to offer those workers the same salary, benefits, working hours, and holidays as domestic workers. Oversight of that process should also be stronger to make sure companies aren't finding loopholes to continue as is. This applies to both companies employing H1B visa workers and those employee illegal immigrants.
Why? Why do I have to imagine some underprivileged guy in another nation? Why is that MY problem? Why is that AMERICA'S problem, to solve? Why can't that other nation solve that problem?
Because Alibaba has to contend with far less regulation and government fuckery in its business. Also, the Chinese government is heavily protectionist towards Chinese industry.
But yes, tell us about how Trump's stated intention to scrap excessive regulations and put American businesses first when it comes to trade deals is somehow bad, while lionizing Alibaba for its amazing profitability and success!
> We're totally going to be in your fucking face for the next 93 months
ftfy
I'll take my chances. The current situation simply means most americans will end up being as poor and as miserable as most of the people in those countries you listed. If it's so great there those companies are welcome to try selling thousand dollar cell phones to people who make $2/week. I'll pass, thanks.
Yeah, I saw Life of Pi, too, it was magical. Now why don't you ground your argument in actual fact, and consider that the dirt-poor indian kids are NOT the ones going to a technical college in India and getting the opportunity to emigrate to the US?
The Indian kids getting H1B's are fairly well-educated children of Indian middle-class parents. MOST of the Indian folks I've worked with have parents who are doctors, engineers, professors and school teachers, civil servants, business owners, architects, and the like - not garbage pickers who live in hovels bordering an open sewer.
What MANY of the ones I've worked with also say is that they want to come here, make good money, and then go back to India eventually where they will invest in businesses and property and retire. This ain't Slumdog Millionaire starring Dev Patel, kid.
Being protectionist / isolationist will achieve the same thing, just faster.
I think that the more recent immigrants from India want to eventually go back, but the ones who have been here a couple of decades are more likely to want to stay.
The Indian government doesn't make its expats welcome to return. India does not allow dual nationality, and full Indian citizenship is required for some things, including buying farmland. An Indian who returns to India without US citizenship must abandon his or her social security payments (you cannot receive Social Security when you retire if you are an Indian citizen living in India).
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Yes. Americans who believe that we should open our doors like this
have lost nothing (that is, they haven't been displaced by a foreign national;
and they have no family member that has been displaced as well) or believe
that we should lower our standard of living to suit that of a lesser culture.
By time they realize it, it's too late and they can't get their livelihood back.
CAP === 'supplant'
The people getting degrees are mostly coming from the new middle class, not the slums. The slums don't offer much opportunity for pre-university education and learning English.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You can. And if you can't, the question is whether you'd be happy to if you could.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
So will slavish acceptance of unchecked immigration.
You're free to donate if you choose. You shouldn't impose that choice on others.
Problem is.... the H1B program is really only valuable to a company that plans on abusing it.
If you're a typical small or mid-sized business with a need for technical employees, it doesn't make sense to try to hire foreigners who have thick accents / language barriers, as well as a work history that's often a total "unknown" (since you can't just skim a resume and get an idea of their skills and knowledge based on who they worked for previously -- because you're likely not that familiar with any foreign firms they worked for).
I've worked my whole life in I.T. and know for a fact there are plenty of Americans with solid expertise in various parts of the field. I can barely imagine a scenario where nobody in America is competent in what's needed, while someone from over in India is just who they need? It's all about getting budget priced labor and nothing more.
At the end of the day, sure -- we're all human beings and have similar wants, needs, and hopes / desires. You can make an appeal to emotions about someone, anywhere in the world, who is in an unfortunate situation. But most of those are the result of the government their country is ruled by. America, for all of its faults, is still pretty good about ensuring its citizens enjoy a top-tier lifestyle. That doesn't mean we "owe" it to everyone else on the planet who'd like to come here and get in on the action.
> This ain't Slumdog Millionaire starring Dev Patel, kid.
Interesting since Dev Patel grew up in England, raised by middle-class parents. He probably has no more in common with the Slumdog character than you or I do - but he's Indian so he looks the part.
I'm Mexican and the problem with your "let the third world move to the US to get a better life" it's a huge mistake and screws up the people that can't leave their countries. That's the majority of the people btw.
Immigration to the US ends up being a pressure relief valve that third world governments knowingly use to delay efforts related to creation of jobs and improvement of quality of living.
While there are short term benefits to people immigrating to first world countries there are considerable damages being done to the population that just can't leave their homeland.
No one is preventing you from taking a lesser salary. Please do so. Or better yet, keep a higher salary, and give some to someone in India. Just because you want to do so doesn't mean it is right for everyone else.
You might not like it, but you will have to give up your job because there is someone else willing to do it for less money and with the same quality. With globalization the bar gets lower on salary and higher on quality. Are you ready to compete with them?
Way to take the high road cocksucker!
You know not EVERYONE of either party is acting like the cunt you are acting like, right ?
Let me guess - you live in Seattle?
Gotta love those people who talk about something they do not even know anything about. Honestly, we did not have a single good option for President but Trump was not the best of the worst. The Republicans are going to run the country into the ground before we can recover from the mass corruption of the Republic Empire.
If techs didn't disagree with each other, then Microsoft would rule the world.
No. I don't want to keep that in mind. Indians should fix India. I see little reason to give a damn that Indians can't be bothered to take a shot at a first rate society while they leech ours, driving down our standard of living.
Life is not zero-sum. If it were, capitalism would have no value at all. The H1B program is structured to fuck over both indians and americans. But it does not have to be structured that way. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Grump is capable of restructuring H1B in a positive way either. So prepare for things to get worse.
I'm no hypocrite. I want H1B visas to be a fast-track to green cards so that I won't have to compete with indentured servants. I'm also just fine with all manner of latin americans coming to the US. Anybody who wants to work their ass off and make something of themselves is welcome. Rich people paying congress to pass laws that keep down those workers are not welcome.
Says you.
History says otherwise.
With our birthrate near parity growth can only come from immigration.
you are a faggot
If progtards had brains, they wouldn't equate racial and sexual quotas with equality.
When you count by race and sex, you're by definition racist and sexist.
Then that makes Dr King a racist 'progtard' —
"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."
And avoid exposure of his russian connections.
how about those 2015 tax forms, while we are at it?
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
We got to look at your "Impeach Obama" bumper stickers and the rest of your crap for eight years... Get used to it.
Yeah, after listening to you crybabies saying "Shrub" stole the election for eight years, everyone is used to your whining already.
But but but Trump said he was going to "eliminate" or "radically scale back" the H1-B program. Don't tell me he was fibbing!
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Imagine this: you live in the slums in Chicago. Your father goes thru trash every day, hoping to find tin cans to sell, and your mother tries to sell home-made bread on the market to feed all of your 6 brothers and sisters. Now you get the opportunity to get a three year degree in software engineering and work for a tech company.
Who would not take this opportunity with both hands?
Every one in the US would like to take opportunity, but they can't because most of the available positions are filled with people from Mumbai.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Yay for all the loud dicks on both sides. Love having you guys around. Make America Polarized Again! See, I don't have to explain to my kid how bad things used to be in the past, because all you assholes keep dragging the crap back into the present day, pretty soon it will be like 1961 again.
Slashdot is read by millions of people. The only reason you see hypocrisy is because you want to.
Yeah .... anybody who thinks you are a bunch of whining losers is because we are on the other side.
Guess what ignorant moron. I did not vote for the idiot of Trump or for the corrupted criminal of Hillary.
I'm just simply tired of all the whining coming from .... what do they call you?? .... snowflakes?? who can't accept that they lost.
UK fucks up India
UK spawns another nation
You realize you have this chronologically backwards, right?
it will not be too many years before the EU is bigger too
That is highly doubtful. The UK is outright leaving with Netherlands and Denmark populace showing strong interest in doing the same, while Switzerland and Iceland both withdrew their applications. And as for the remaining states, Greece, Italy, and Portugal are all bordering on insolvent.
Time will tell. It maybe that those other countries will have growth opportunities made available because the UK has exited. I think that the UK is about to realise that things will not "keep calm and carry on", who knows, maybe Scotland will become part of the EU or part of Ireland and get into the EU that way. I really don't expect the USA to treat the UK any better no matter how much grovelling the UK PM does or how many Royals get whored out to meet Trump.
Will the US push all IT jobs offshore and as such give up any knowledge of that whole layer of technology?
America has benefitted from immigrant populations, historically by melding them and their skills into America itself.
This notion of IT jobs being only for export paints a bleak page for next generation, We wont hire Americans for Junior
positions, we'll have no idea..
See also the ToolMakers in he US under age 30, and Jr IT admins under 25.
in your fucking face
No, you're going to be sitting in your mom's fucking basement, going "HURR BUT DAE HUR EMAILZ" and wondering why you get your shit kicked in again in another four years.
Than you are a fool. You could replace all jobs in the US with Indians and it would not make the slightest bit of difference to people living in slums in India. Get your head out of your ass.
We don't want temporary guest workers, we want immigration. Bring them here permanently and make us stronger.
I'm not. Know why? Because if I take a lower salary, then my peers end up with lower ones, as they are pressured to stay at what is regarded as a market rate and it is much harder to get higher rates out of a company when you need it than it is to donate the money when you don't. At the same time there is this "Shortage of talented and trained professionals", we see massive layoffs in similar, or the same fields. We see that million plus dollar companies only need a relative handful of people.
But you know what really pisses me off? We also see that there are people who can't afford training, be it trades or college, while we work to import others to take jobs, rather than doing what through history, was a the sensible course of action, IE, paying for people to be trained in order to get enough of them. We have executives getting paid enough money that we could hire 200 people instead, and still pay the CEO 4X the average wage. In other words, work a single year as a CEO, and not only could you get a golden parachute, you, and one generation of descendants could live on that.
If you have enough money to pay CEO's that much, you have enough money to hire away workers from other firms if you need to, while paying people to attend training. Apprenticeships, and OTJ training work. India can dig itself out with their own efforts, and willingly given money, rather than by taking jobs for less than market rates, ruining the odds of getting living wages, and sending money home. Or else they could you know, figure out a way to have fewer people (Don't have kids, let them starve. sterilize people, don't care.). There are lots of solutions, and most don't require them to send their best and brightest to the US, or faking it either.
...I've worked with many Indian people on an H1-B, and my anecdotal evidence is that they really are just like everyone else. Some are good, some are a bit less. But all share the same hope and dreams of being able to permanently stay in the U.S. and doing it the legal way. Instead of only discussing those pesky Indians taking American jobs, let's keep this in mind as well. Let's focus on the companies that are responsible for the abuse of the program. Southern California Edison, Disney, etc. Wipro and Infosys committing visa fraud. These are the bad guys, not Balu from Bombai.
Yah, I see your point, but I still am against H1-B's save maybe as a year or two year thing on the way to actual citizenship including the right to vote. Under no circumstances should we have laws that reduce the rights of those that live and contribute.
It would be a bit like saying, okay the illegal immigrants are okay. They do a lot of jobs no one really wants, but we want to make sure to put them all in a database to make sure they never get any rights, such as voting or benefits. I'm not sure I can really support citizenship for anyone who was of adult age when they came here. Go back. Get in line. Children though? Sure we can make reasonable exceptions. Now if someone is undocumented and making things clearly worse, I'm not sure we have a moral responsibility to keep them.
The nice thing about accepting people that are likely to eventually contribute to society (possibly after some help), is it works for everyone and is unbiased. You could even weight who gets in first by their expected contribution. For instance, engineers and such would likely be higher up. There might be lower standards for legitimate refuges, but no one is suggesting we stop vetting, nor do we need to make it "extreme". It already is.
I see little reason to give a damn that Indians can't be bothered to take a shot at a first rate society while they leech ours, driving down our standard of living.
Here's the thing: One of the reasons you enjoy a privileged life in the west today is your forefathers ran roughshod over places like India, Asia, South America and the Middle and Far East - Extracting resources, using cheap labour, installing corrupt governments - You name it. America, Canada, the UK - Your way of life was built on the backs of the people in those parts of the world.
Surprisingly drinkypoo just literally illustrated the cuckolding of a nation and is happy about it. That kind of behavior created the alt-right and their cuck fantasies. All extremism begins with a grain of truth.
Being protectionist and isolationist along with a strong military is what made Athens great. It's what spawned Democracy. Learn some history.
Good things come from what you denounce, and folly, war, totalitarianism, and famine come from the road you want us all to be force-marched down.
As before Trump ever ran his cock sucker. And will be exactly the same when he or anyone else leaves or takes office.
Sorry about your luck.
AFAIK, the billionaire CEO of Infosys, or of Google or of Microsoft for that matter do not go shitting on beaches. Where there is demand there will be a supply. LinkedIn says there are 150,000 jobs that match my profile, where are the other Americans who can take those jobs. My organization has 100,000 job openings on any given day, and it takes us more than 3 months to get a decent candidate. The problem is "the poorly educated", who have no interest to get ahead and learn anything, but will whine that they are getting a bad deal.
If I have a choice of helping people in extreme poverty, while giving a salary reduction to people who are making greater than $100k, then I will impose that choice on others, and I won't feel guilty about it.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Surprisingly drinkypoo just literally illustrated the cuckolding of a nation
Even if that were true (it's not)...
and is happy about it.
point to where I said I was happy.
On the other hand, if we don't share our wealth with them, they will share their poverty with us. Perhaps we should find a way to do that which doesn't involve putting American citizens out on the street.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Epy pleeease, immigrate to India
This comment has many similarities with some of the outlandish crap Trump says.
You make up figures about "hundreds of billion" in lost tourism. Did you use the MPAA's or the RIAA's accountants for those estimates?
The USA makes up 4% of the worlds population and 20% of the worlds GDP, Asia makes up over 60% of the population, Chinas GDP is already bigger than the US and it will not be too many years before the EU is bigger too, and Asia is where all the consumer growth is, does the USA want to be locked out of that ?
That's one sentence. Take a breath. It's like you are at a campaign rally and just spouting one hyperbole after another to rile up your base.
Mellow out. I don't know if pot is legal in NZ, but hope you can find some.
THIS IS GREAT!
The golden question is wether those nations can solve their problem.
Most of those people are only fleeing from themselves, and bringing their problems to other nations.
Racism is just Newspeak and the censorship/inquisition of the XXI century.
Methinks the drinkypoo doth protest too much.
What are you doing? are you arguing facts?
You cannot argue with the MAGA crowd. Why do you think they bought thta BS slogan to begin with??
Humans at their core are irrational but the trump crowd often seems to be at the very end of the rationale scale. They feel that if they just shout "USA, USA, USA" very loud then things will "work out".
Waste of time. Resolve to live with the realities of life morons force you into and try to get your head above the shitline. Heck, profit from it if you can, everyone else does. I'm thinking of producing "made in America" code. Software that was written only by Americans so bigots can feel good about forking over the mula for shitty programming.
Yes, the people that will produce the code will be out of college or just newly made US citizens. Some will be muslim but it will be technically correct to say "made in America" -morons can bask in the glory of their idiocy. win/win.
Oh yeah, it must mean that just doesn't happen then...I mean if you have not heard of it.
Every culture has particulars to that culture. Like indians are likely to live 9 people in a flat of 3 rooms and yet drive a benz. Does that make them all more likely to cheat?
The highest proportion of ethnic population size utilizing welfare services in the US is amongst black people. The highest spend on welfare is on white people. Does that mean black people are more likely to game the system? -could there be an underlying racism, descrimination and purposeful lack of development of black communities that goes hand in hand with that problem?
I've not seen you donate to charity. I guess that means you're a scumbag. -or maybe it just means I didn't see you do it.
That's what it takes these days right? people have to justify their existence to others so they are not thought of poorly.
Have you considered the possibility that lowering the number of technology workers coming to the USA from India would help India?
Think about it this way, these people coming to the USA for work are supposed to be the best and brightest in the world. If they weren't the best in the world then employers would find someone better elsewhere. If these people leave India then we've now deprived India of their intelligence, education, and work ethic.
These visiting workers might send money home for their family but that would not help India near as much as if they were doing this work in their home nation. While they are working in the USA they are mentoring people in the USA, depriving India further of their intelligence and education. If these people had stayed in India then they'd be training the next generation of technology workers, people that are currently living in the slums of India.
For the sake of the people in India I believe we should stop importing workers from there. I'd be willing to have co-workers of lesser intelligence and education if it helps out people in the slums of India.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
If you have numbers that show that, it would be interesting, but it isn't intuitively obvious.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Athens also killed imperfect infants.
It f*** Indians in many ways Americans will not comprehend.
H1b reform will actually benefit India in the long run.
What about the people who aren't privileged enough to have the high-end education and class benefits to make $100k in IT but have still worked their entire lives to get what they have and develop amazing skillsets? What about the people in the $40k-$60k range in the small to mid-sized businesses who have now lost their niche due to overseas outsourcing to India for pennies on the dollar or at the very least are subject to greater abuse and reduced benefits due to the THREAT of being outsourced?
A lot of people making over $100k are safe. It's the working poor and lower middle class who are screwed these days.
As an American, I am not responsible for the shit that Great Britain has pulled in the past.
As an Irish American I am not responsible for most shit that went down in American history, my ancestors didn't arrive until after the civil war.
But you're telling me that I have to give up my job or accept a lower wage because some Indian was sponsored by a large corporation to take IT jobs for peanuts?
Until you propose a plan that solves this issue by punishing the corporations and protecting my ability to earn a decent wage I won't listen to your communist bullshit.
How about you give up your job and train your Indian replacement first?
The robin hood act is getting a bit old. That's an arbitrary number too. You don't know whether I make that much or not, or for how long, how much debt I might have accrued, how many dependents I have, or how much I've saved for retirement. It's quite selfish to suddenly impose a substantial tariff on everyone just so you can feel better about yourself/virtue signal to others how much you care. If you really give that much of a shit, donate your entire future income to them and move there to help build that New India. Somehow I bet you'd balk because, like most people, you're freer with other people's money and time than with your own.
You do have the choice, instead you're here on SD bragging and virtue signaling, bravo good sir, bravo.
How about history? The US has a record of taking brilliant scientists from other countries, like Einstein.
Oh, that's the worst you can think of? What about the people who are literally slaves, living their lives carrying heavy loads in a brick kiln? What about them?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Those guys were outsourced ages ago.
The robin hood act is getting a bit old.
............Right......so the old, rich, selfish act is fresh and new? Because you're sounding as stale and selfish as morning toast right now. Some people actually try to make the world a better place. Are you one of them?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Hey, there's a reason it's called Slacker News.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I see little reason to give a damn that Indians can't be bothered to take a shot at a first rate society while they leech ours, driving down our standard of living.
Here's the thing: One of the reasons you enjoy a privileged life in the west today is your forefathers ran roughshod over places like India, Asia, South America and the Middle and Far East - Extracting resources, using cheap labour, installing corrupt governments - You name it. America, Canada, the UK - Your way of life was built on the backs of the people in those parts of the world.
Speak for yourself. My forefathers were from China. UK fucked us big-time, so did Japan. But we don't whine about America or Canada, just the UK and Japan...
That's a horrible example. If Einstein had stayed in Germany, he would have been tortured or killed. Any economic gains from his work in America would have been completely lost. It was better for all the world, including Germany, that Einstein left Germany. If you're going to give a historical example, at least choose one that makes sense.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
So you want to help Indians get out of the muck by trading their places with low income americans? Like I said, maybe you should just pack up shop and move there. You're welcome to make that choice with your own life. You are not welcome to make that choice for others.
False dilemma. Actually, what I said was I don't agree with using force. That is not equivalent to selfishness.
Follow your own advice. If that's what you expect of others, go first. Show the world how it's done. Assuage your guilt at being 'rich'. Take the initiative and donate some large percentage of your future income to the relevant charities. I don't think you'd do it so why should anyone else?
You are not welcome to make that choice for others.
I don't think you understand how government works. Governments do exactly that every day: they make choices for people that they themselves wouldn't make, and don't want.
In other words, if the government agrees with me, then that choice will be made for others.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Actually, I think we both understand it quite well. Thankfully, you are not the government. The problem with these faux bleeding hearts is that they're always justifying why the take needs to be a greater percentage than last year. Then they wonder why the jobs go over seas to shitholes with no human rights in the first place.
Perhaps we should focus on why that is and fix it instead of opening the floodgates to people looking for quick handouts, people who hate everything our society stands for (or is supposed to stand for), and those who otherwise have no intention of integrating.
Ooh, a reeducation session. Let me get my notebooks out and pay rapt attention to the tale of how terrible the west is.. Lets talk about how I am responsible for the sins of my fath...err oh wait, that's right, my forebears were peasants too, without a drop of aristocratic blood. So much for your self righteousness.
but all you're doing is crying about how you can't shit on other people without consequences.
How is declining visitors the same as "shit on other people"? Are you actually clinically insane, to equivocate in this manner, or are you simply attacking the posters character?
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
It's likely your HR dept is more concerned with meeting racial quotas than hiring on relevant attributes like reading comprehension. I didn't say that Infosys management shits on beaches. I said that Indians do. Public defecation is quite common there because they've got nowhere else to go. Companies that outsource to save money typically end up paying 'insource' consultants multiple times what they paid originally to clean up the mess.
Like I said, try selling your overpriced services to people making $2/week and see how those sales figures look. If you're telling me you can find a glut of qualified workers in Mumbai while America is this barren wasteland of washouts, then move your whole operation there. What are you waiting for?
UK fucks up India
What do you think India would look like if the British Empire had never come along? Do you honestly think it would be better?
And you can do that, by making charitable donations. You even get a tax deduction for it.
But are you happy to force other people to do the same?
Look, the harsh reality is that every western government in the world needs 20-40 year olds to pile into their nations. Why? Because for the last 30 years politicians and corporations have made a succession of unrealistic pension promises to the current crop of workers, and those workers didn't have enough babies to pay for those promises in the future.
Your retirement contributions now pay for current retirees - not your future retirement. That will be paid for by whoever is working at the point you retire. It is a ponzi scheme that only works if your population continues to grow at the rate you are making outrageous promises to win votes. Unfortunately, most western nations stopped growing from natural population increases decades ago.
This is why, despite widespread anger about immigrants in almost all western countries, governments will not do anything about it. Look at the UK. A major reason for the Brexit fiasco was a desire by many to slash immigration, and yet the government refuses to commit to reducing it after Brexit. The reason they won't commit, is because they have decided that people would rather whine about immigrants than have their pensions slashed.
Trump will have seen the projected pension cost figures now. Even he will be able to conclude that stuffing the country with workers who the USA didn't have to pay the costs of raising and educating, is a remarkably good deal for the country. All he has to do now is make the right noises so that it appears he is doing something about it, then ultimately do very little.
Kek. There are people in the USA. USAians can simply sell to USAians. That's how we got this shit started. We can still do that, and it would be greener and better for the world economy. See, USA wouldn't be outsourcing shitty jobs to foreign countries then. Standards of work safety would be higher in USA. The middle and lower classes would have to be pulled up a rung or two in comparison to the insane wealth inequality currently possible thanks to globalism. The 1% own more wealth than the next 80%. Let's reverse that process, mmmkay?
> presumably because they were offended that I put some reality on the back of a classic American car.
You pseudo intellectual types wouldn't know reality if it fell from the sky, melted a giant continental ice sheet, and caused a giant flood with head waters thousands of feet deep. An event which is recorded in all world religions, and the geologic record of the planet.
You live your life in near complete ignorance -- literally ignoring the obvious and simple truth that any rational person can see. Government funded academia is full of snake oil salesmen. Academia censors any evidence that is contrary to their religious dogma, and drum people out of scientific fields the for heresy of proposing hypotheses based on evidence.
I could say more, but you're so bluepilled your head would explode if I gave you the dose of truth all at once. Not that you'll actually investigate my claims before dismissing them out of hand -- You're a pseudo intellectual. Your not a scientist. Otherwise you'd try to refute your own null hypothesis -- perhaps the car wasn't stolen or defaced because of the Darwin emblem. Unlike you, I require pics or it didn't happen.
Otherwise you'd try to refute your own null hypothesis -- perhaps the car wasn't stolen or defaced because of the Darwin emblem.
Right, that's why they removed the Darwin emblem. What a bullshit douchebag you are.
Unlike you, I require pics or it didn't happen.
Unlike you, I can see that someone damaged my car removing my Darwin fish, and put two and two together.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Im modding so Im posting anon for this one because it really needs a response.
If your company takes 3 months to find one decent candidate then it is not offering a competitive wage and/or benefits.
Double the amount you are willing to pay the candidate and look at creative benefits. Then when posting the listing make sure to include the pay range and the benefits to attract the right candidate.
If you need someone with 15 years experience in Windows, Linux, VOIP, and a laundry list of other systems then be willing to open your check book! I bet if you listed such a position with a 190k+ a year base pay as well as an amazing benefits list, you would get the candidate you are looking for. However, listing it with a stock set of benefits (401k,medical/dental/vision,2 weeks vacation) and a pay that is at or below average for the position will get you exactly what you are seeing.
But putting a "Darwin" fish on my first car (a 1960 Dodge Dart) was enough to get my car scratched up by the fuckhead who stole it
If someone was enough of an asshole to steal your car, they're enough of an asshole to scratch it up. What makes you think that your bumper sticker had anything to do with it?
Do people really believe that every incoming President comes in with all discussed topics as written legislature? Or is this just a thing that partisans like to do
I have never seen that to be the case even once in my lifetime.
What we saw with Obama is the same thing that we see with Trump: the legislature (aka Congress) writes the laws with some level of help from the White House (depends on the experience of the incoming administration and, many will remember, this is why the ACA did not pass until the Fall of Obama's term under incredibly unprecedented terms: a Sunday vote). This is why it's not just Obama that receives the blame for passing the ACA; it was the Democrats in Congress that filled the bill with pork and insanity, which said that they needed to pass it to see what was in it. Obama deserves the blame for not vetoing it, but Congress wrote the majority of it.
After the blunder that we all just witnessed from the GOP trying to do the same thing, what idiot wants the administration to rush into fixing another major problem with the GOP in Congress? This is the same GOP that is in the process of trying to literally sell us out via privacy rules. Just like Obama, Trump will receive the blame if he does not veto such a bill.
Trump has been here for just over 2 months. I certainly don't want him "fixing" H1-B until his administration figures out how to work the system. Otherwise, his "fix" is clearly going to be the politicians making money -- and I'm pretty sure that's what got us into this mess in the first place.
It's almost like "draining the swamp" wasn't just a joke. It's just that both parties are filled with garbage. Hopefully when the opportunity to pass term limits comes around, we all immediately pass it.
why the fuck do I have 6 siblings when my parents can barely afford to feed themselves? buy a fuckin condom like the rest of the 1st world. (no, its not racist, the culture of be fruitful and multiply reached the tipping point last century, some folks got it and some would rather cling to a destructive tradition than to accept that the world is changing)
the country has resources and infrastructure to support maybe 20% of its population, and their answer is to make more people. actually, that probably explains a lot of the code I have to work with - the logic is totally ass-backward
Better take the best salary you can get, then donate as much as you like to the best cause you can think of.
That gives your money the best chance to arrive where you want it to go.
I don't have numbers, at least not all of them. Here's a few to consider, the average IQ in the USA is 98, in India it's 81.
I'm sure India has a lot of very smart people, if only because of their large population and the way the bell curve works. So even with an average IQ of 81 there's probably more geniuses in India than the USA. However, if the smartest people in India keep leaving for places like the USA then one can expect India to have a brain drain over time.
It would be in India's best interest to somehow keep these intelligent people in their borders.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
You never know. If you look at middle age Europe, would you think Europe would get its shit together?
You are making a racist comment.
Perhaps we should focus on why that is
Yeah, because social engineering works great. Isn't that what you alt-white types believe?
opening the floodgates to people looking for quick handouts, people who hate everything our society stands for (or is supposed to stand for), and those who otherwise have no intention of integrating.
All of which are false projections from your own fever dreams.
I don't think many blame desperate people (starving family seeking food/medical support) for taking opportunities, they're at the bottom so they deserve a break. We can all see that.
I do, however, blame the companies abusing the system. I also know quite a few fairly wealthy Indian individuals (namely young adults supported by foreign family) who abuse the H-1B loop to gain citizenship. I know a few with CS/SE degrees who cannot program, identify appropriate algorithms for a solution, solicit requirements, manage projects... etc.
They're even aware they're getting paid less, but due to supplemental income from inherited wealth, they're able to take the hits that I cannot, all through a system designed entirely to drive down the cost of professional labor.
I'm considering a career change to the health sector which is still fairly sensible because demand outpaces caps that restrict H-1B abuse. If the caps raise, that sector too with suffer greatly.
If the lobbyist puahing federal government want to raise the flood gates for a race to the bottom of the barrel, then whatever I suppose, but let's not attempt to fool the general population in the process and pretend there's a shortage in a highly paid career field.
Who the hell ever said otherwise? Nothing makes it easier to make a point than to attack an argument that nobody is making.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
He actually meant that he's happier with you taking a lower salary.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
Why the hell is their mom trying to sell homemade bread on the market to feed all her children? Feed them bread.
I don't really think car thieves are usually ideological crusaders. Maybe they just thought the Darwin fish might make it more readily identifiable as the vehicle they stole?
http://www.petition2congress.c...
Casteism
"Politics is the art by which politicians get money from the rich and votes from the poor on the pretext of protecting each from the other" -- Oscar
Casteism
Because as long as even one person has less than you have, you don't deserver anything. You won't deserve anything until everybody has more than you have. Then you'll deserve something. Until you get it, and then there will be somebody with less than you again and you'll be back to not deserving anything.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
OP is a rich white kid who grew up in private schools and assumes that everybody else in America was the same.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
I'm happy to take a lower salary if it helps people out in the slums of India.
The money flowing from employers to workers is less in the low-salary scenario. In the high-salary scenario, you could send your marginal extra money to India, and there would be more of it to send. It sounds like you're:
- trying to vote with dollars that don't belong to you, or
- denying that all money is the same color so you can virtue-signal with contrived stories
We tried that already. It was called "Soviet Russia."
I'm happy to take a lower salary if it pulls smart Indian programmers into the first-world programmers union and keeps Indian software quality down. That drives up the price and working conditions for all of us, albeit while entrenching global inequality. The question is where to set the bar for "smart". If visas are distributed by lottery instead of bar-height, then the bar is probably too low. Maybe we should set it low enough to have a little bit of lottery, to limit test prep style scams, but it's way too low now.
Also I think the Americans being replaced are too stupid. We can never brain-drain India so severely that all Indians will be stupider than all Americans. The point is to have a creme of rockstars in the US to pull all the work here, and then even stupid Americans can get jobs as junior programmers in firms full of senior Indian and American programmers.
Bullshit!!!!!
You haven't actually talked to those Indians about their backgrounds.
All those H1B Indians come from wealthy Indian families. Those dirt poor Indians simply don't have the opportunity to get a degree and get to the USA.
+1
Some of them may have overseas contract work backgrounds, Dubai, etc., but most are wealthier. I would encourage you to actually talk to them because it's easy to do, or at least defer to those who have, instead of telling charity-fapping liberal just-so stories. We have too much of that.
If progtards had brains, they wouldn't equate racial and sexual quotas with equality.
+1
What they are asking for now goes way beyond affirmative action. When progtards talk about the "wage gap," they're asking us to treat women as if they gain work experience while they're at home raising children and to pay them a bonus because the lower career expectations on them when searching for marriage partners means they have a wider arena of safe majors to choose from in college. When you point out their bad math, they start screaming about trolling in basements and white male fragility and becoming as unhinged as any so-called white supremacist. When they finally recover their breath, they want to go out and "educate" people. Fuck these guys.
Shall I call you a conservitard in return?
id prefer you be a little more original.
I'm happy to have you call me a libtard or a progtard because I know it means instead of spouting whatever tripe President Brannon, Kellyann, and Vladimir tell you to think, I can think for myself.
so as long as youre disagreeing with those chums and being insulted, that means youre thinking for yourself, eh? what happens when any of those people say something thats correct?
I know my side doesn't need to resort to nonsense like gerrymandering election districts, or passing laws to inhibit and intimidate voters, or any of the other dirty tricks your side uses to rig elections.
doesnt matter which side youre on, your side resorts to nonsense. youre just arguing which party's shit smells worse.
And the fact that you post as AC just further confirms to me how broken you really are.
so they didnt join your club, who cares. the argument matters, not the submission method.
" maybe you should just pack up shop and move there. You're welcome to make that choice with your own life. You are not welcome to make that choice for others."
That was the same mentality used for centuries to keep women and minorities out of the workforce.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
No. I don't want to keep that in mind. Indians should fix India. I see little reason to give a damn that Indians can't be bothered to take a shot at a first rate society while they leech ours, driving down our standard of living.
The program is repeatedly lobbied for by these companies. It needs to go. That, or these companies should relocate to Mumbai and America should embargo their goods/services and release their patents to the public so that new startups can fill the void. Infosys and friends can see how well SaaS and other insanely overpriced abstract IT rubbish sell to people who can't keep the lights on and who think proper sanitation is shitting in fields and on beaches.
You are missing the point. Balu from Bombay didn't come to Silicon Valley and take someone's job by force or by undercutting them. Neither did Infosys or Wipro. The American companies' executives and board of directors (who are representatives of shareholders like you and me and our retirement funds) willingly decided to outsource the jobs to cut costs and give a big bonus to the executives.
Are the shareholders willing to get their representatives (board of directors) to protect our jobs? Are the board of directors willing to make the CEO hire American employees which would reduce his annual bonus? Are the executives who sit on each other's boards and scratch each other's back willing to do this? Are the American public smart enough to identify the cause of the issue and work on fixing them? They are their own enemy. Blaming the foreign tech workers and their employers isn't going to fix selfish CEOs from outsourcing your jobs. Unless you fix the executives, your jobs aren't coming back to you. If the government stops issuing visas, then the jobs are going overseas, not coming back to you.
So, fix the American executives, boards of directors and shareholders, rather than blaming someone else.
Should be labeled as sarcasm or flame bait. Too many problems with that comment to reasonably address them.
That just sounds like the Flynn effect of education hasn't happened in India yet. They're a bunch of simple country people, still.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The boards only care about next quarter's profits, because that's all the shareholders care about. No concern for the long-term viability of the business.
If this quarter's profits are up, keep doing what you're doing. If they're down, we'll find another company to invest in. That's the bottom line.
Bullshit!!!!!
You haven't actually talked to those Indians about their backgrounds.
All those H1B Indians come from wealthy Indian families. Those dirt poor Indians simply don't have the opportunity to get a degree and get to the USA.
Nope.
They are a mix of all backgrounds, mostly middle class, some upper-middle and some lower-middle. Just mostly depends on if their parents put them through engineering or medical school - because that's all US cares about: STEM immigrants.
Wealthy Indians would never leave India. Why would anyone leave from being the top class in a society to be the bottom rung in America?
I'm happy to have you call me a libtard or a progtard ... I can think for myself.
Ahahahahaahahah. No you can't. Nobody does. You all say you think for yourselves, both sides. None of you do. You're just as guilty, sir.
No, they're not trying to get their shit back together. They're trying to shit on and run roughshod over us like the british did to them. Unlike them, though, we're actually arguing about whether those that plunder our economy have the moral right to do so.
Things need to get way worse in america. People are apparently too comfortable.
Not everyone has ambition and drive. Seems plenty of people would be pretty happy with wifi, an ounce, and $200 per week. But only if they don't have to actually work for it. Make them work for it, and they'll come in late and do a really half-assed job while bitching about having to work.
Posting AC due to moderation of this OP
False dichotomy. Those jobs were always going to go overseas anyway. There is no stopping water running downhill or jobs flowing from higher ground to lower ground. Those only question is how many and how quickly, and for this we create public policies that hopefully moderate such migration. That "justified take" you are so derisive of is one of those mechanisms that reduces the "how many" and slows down the "how quickly".
OP is a rich white kid who grew up in private schools and assumes that everybody else in America was the same.
You mean me, or the guy who posted "Trump Trump Trump"?
If you mean me, then no.
I grew up far from rich by most standards and I realized early on that even with my modest start, lots of people didn't have the opportunities I had.
Was I "rich" by Mumbai standards? Probably, but I didn't live in Mumbai...so I wasn't at any particular advantage in terms of "wealth" in my surroundings.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
it will not be too many years before the EU is bigger too
That is highly doubtful. The UK is outright leaving with Netherlands and Denmark populace showing strong interest in doing the same, while Switzerland and Iceland both withdrew their applications.
The UK barely got a slim majority to leave, and May is so desperate to do it BEFORE the country goes back that she's rushing ahead without an iota of a plan, the Netherlands actually rejected Wilders's nonsense, and the Danes would be more likely to try to conquer England again. The Swiss application was idling since 2001, if not the nineties, and the Icelanders would rather not get tied to the banking community. They saw that shit.
And as for the remaining states, Greece, Italy, and Portugal are all bordering on insolvent.
Nope! As we learned from the example in Greece, it was the international bankers running shenanigans on a country. They pull that crap again, they'll get the wall.
In that case nobody should ever emigrate anywhere.
Why did your ancestors go to the country you are in now?
Because their home country had been overrun by Nazis and totally trashed.
Imagine this: you live in the slums in Mumbai. Your father goes thru trash every day, hoping to find tin cans to sell, and your mother tries to sell home-made bread on the market to feed all of your 6 brothers and sisters. Now you get the opportunity to get a three year degree in software engineering and go to the U.S. to work for a tech company. You have no clue about all the politics surrounding H1-B in the U.S., and you don't know that you will be grossly underpaid comparing to your American peers. Who would not take this opportunity with both hands? I've worked with many Indian people on an H1-B, and my anecdotal evidence is that they really are just like everyone else. Some are good, some are a bit less. But all share the same hope and dreams of being able to permanently stay in the U.S. and doing it the legal way. Instead of only discussing those pesky Indians taking American jobs, let's keep this in mind as well. Let's focus on the companies that are responsible for the abuse of the program. Southern California Edison, Disney, etc. Wipro and Infosys committing visa fraud. These are the bad guys, not Balu from Bombai.
TL:DR don't hate the player, hate the game
Wanna buy a shirt?
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