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UploadVR Had a 'Kink Room,' Pressured Female Employees To 'Microdose,' Alleges Lawsuit (gizmodo.com)
The virtual-reality company UploadVR is being sued by the company's former Director of Digital and Social Media for rampant sexual harassment. According to Gizmodo, "the lawsuit alleges that the company's employees and founders created a hostile work environment in which sexual harassment, gender discrimination, and retaliation occurred on a regular basis." From the report: In the suit documents, the former Director of Digital and Social Media for UploadVR claims that the office environment was a "boy's club" that employees expressly referred to as a "boy's club." From the suit: "Specifically, the male employees of UploadVR, including Mason and Freeman, would discuss their sexual exploits in graphic detail at the workplace in front of Plaintiff and other female employees. For instance, UploadVR employee [name redacted]'s sex life was a frequent topic of conversation. The other male employees would talk about how he 'refuses to wear a condom' and 'has had sex with over 1000 people.'" The documents also claim that employees were engaged in Silicon Valley's hot new trend of "microdosing" and "using Marijuana in the office." When female employees didn't want to participate, they would be ostracized by the male employees and excluded from important meetings and lunches.
Sounds kind of like certain people letting their on-line behaviors, formed from years of anonymous social media interaction, extend to the real world. Not that similar poor behavior hasn't happened before, just pondering it as a 'potential' contributor.
its not lawsuit worthy when you put it like that though. so we cant do that now can we?
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
I thought you hired an HR dept full of pretty women to keep the nerd programmers motivated .......
The VCs were too busy microdosing.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is what you get for hiring a bunch of phricks.
News flash: most men and most women are exactly like this.
Don't believe me about women? You don't think that when they get together that they discuss their own sexual exploits, menstruation, or whatever other topic they care to discuss?
The reason this is happening is because those who pretend to be our betters and deign to tell us what is acceptable behavior have systematically gone about destroying societal norms for the last few generations. There was a time when a group of men would have the common sense and decency to confirm discussion such as those described to the locker room, club, or some other place outside of mixed company. Of course, if you spend 50 years telling boys that girls are not different than them and that they are exactly the same, then why are you going to be surprised when boys act like boys and include girls in the conversation? I mean, girls are no different, right?
Then, if you have the temerity to teach boys that they need to treat girls in a particular way you are socially lynched for perpetrating the patriarchy, subjugating women, etc., etc. Oh well, this is a no win situation if every I saw one.
Don't hire women. Problems solved, and you cut 90% of your HR dept.
Actually, you can cut your HR budget by 100% with that kind of blatent discrimination, because your company won't have any capital after the lawsuits conclude.
Oh wait, I forgot. This is Trump's Amerika. You're female ... you don't have any rights.
"Microdosing is for pussies," said John McAfee as he prepared to hit the pipe.
(Hint: not serious. But he probably would feel something like this.)
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
"The other male employees would talk about how he 'refuses to wear a condom' and 'has had sex with over 1000 people.'"
If you have sex with more than 1000 partners, are they really all *people* to you?
-Styopa
Did you even read the lawsuit? I think "condom wrappers and underwear on the floor of the office" is pretty unambiguous. Not everything is some cryptosemite conspiracy.
I left a place years ago because the guys were really creepy like that, and I'm a dude. At another place we had to ask the new parents to tone down the discussion of their children's potty training.
The company employees made sure it was a gender specific problem. They specifically referred to their office as a "boy's club". And then there is shit like this:
The founders and other employees are accused of speaking "sexually" about female employees right to their face, and one employee would, allegedly, talk about having "a boner" and going to the bathroom to "rub one out" in order to maintain focus. The suit clarifies that to mean "he was going to the restroom to masturbate."
and
A section describing how women were expected to do "womanly tasks" describes an environment that was cartoonishly sexist. Female employees were expected to clean up after events and parties, while men were not. The defendants allegedly told the plaintiff that women should be âoemommiesâ and help the men with whatever they needed.
From the sound of it they are royally fucked, because there are emails about STD test results and looking for docile women on their far eastern business trips. The "kink room" just sounds gross, and clearly they didn't take any HR advice as it would be an obvious form of sexual harassment for any gender.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Or hire only women. You can save up to 70% on salaries.
Still don't know what 'microdosing' is.
How nice of you to completely ignore talking about the female employees in a sexual manner right in front of them. They weren't just talking about their own sex life. Phrasing is the key, and your obvious attempt to gloss over the thing that's actually wrong shows what you really think people like you should be allowed to do.
And excluding workers from important meetings who didn't participate in the drugs is not merely laughing at them. It's actively preventing them from performing their job. And one of them was terminated for complaining about it. You obviously think it's okay to terminate people for complaining about behaviour then.
This can only ever be neutral if you straight up ignore the actual details.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
I"m surprised to see people defending this behavior. If talking about sexual exploits at work is considered acceptable then society is truly going down the toilet. What a great new America you are building there.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
And lose it all again on paid maternity leave.
Yeah, OK, I'll probably get modded flamebait for that, but it was worth it :-).
Ehhh, not yet, but I'm loving this subreddit
"I'm gonna call me a coupla hard, pipe-hittin McAfees.."... naah, it just doesn't sound the same.
I doubt they were hiring pricks. They were them...
Is it taking small doses of acid? I mean, it takes so VERY little LSD to send you tripping, exactly how much and how are they keeping "micro" so that it doesn't blow you away for a day (if in fact this is what they're doing...).
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Except that your phrasing doesn't have the same meaning at all.
"When female employees didn't want to participate, they would be ostracized by the male employees and excluded from important meetings and lunches" is not the same as "They laughed at some workers who did not participate, and some of them were women".
It's not even remotely close, check your logic.
You're so biased against anything that is gender related that you refuse to see when there is a problem. Maybe that will change when you'll get harassed for something many will refer to as non-existent.
Video of some good progressive thrash music
Egos are out of control in tech. The fact that they are high all the time is most definitely reflected in their ridiculous and hair-brained ideas. It makes it that much easier to pull the rug out from inder them. A lot of new tech will fail due to their being a bunch of hateful, oblivious, drug-addled douchebags that were only suffering from adolescent superiority complexes rather than a actually ever having been all that bright in the first place. Pathetic, all of them, from top to bottom.
I was sexually assaulted as a 10 year old. When saying it to feminists they will repeatedly say "you are a man, it does not count". But thanks for wishing me another assault, it sure as hell shows how behind your "feminist" facade you are just another person wishing for someone to be assaulted. I guess that because I'm a man it makes it ok.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
I am a man and wouldn't want to work there. I hate specious and or frivolous lawsuits but in this case hope they get maxed.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Yes, it is taking very small doses of various drugs like LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, MDA... (But not MDMA, which is not perceptible at microdose levels, according to Alexander Shulgin.) It's not that hard to keep the dose small, you just cut it up, same as a prescription pill.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I don't know if they've have VC funding yet, but you'd suppose that the VC's would check for this sort of thing in the due diligence phase.
Maybe they did. It could be that porn is the only profitable form of VR right now.
And yes, I would assume they have some funding or some money. A lawyer working on contingency wouldn't want to waste time suing a startup that didn't.
For instance, UploadVR employee [name redacted]'s sex life was a frequent topic of conversation. The other male employees would talk about how he 'refuses to wear a condom' and 'has had sex with over 1000 people.'"
So the other male employees were slut-shaming another guy?
Or wondering what kind of sexually transmitted diseases he was carrying?
Hay, it's a free country. If you don't like assholes and drugs then move out of California.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Someone didn't read the entire article. They were way over the line.
Because if you read the article, it was clearly both very inappropriate and targeted behavior:
The founders and other employees are accused of speaking “sexually” about female employees right to their face, and one employee would, allegedly, talk about having “a boner” and going to the bathroom to “rub one out” in order to maintain focus.
Making unwanted sexual comments directly to someone is the textbook definition of sexual harassment. Masturbating on company time is just over the top.
If their director of social media is acting like a retarded frat boy and encouraging the same in others, he needs to go. If the company gets hit with a lawsuit because they couldn't figure that out on their own, well, too bad.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Yes, concluding that men and women are different could not possibly be arrived at through observation and experience. It is clearly the result of mental illness.
So? The article is reporting what is in the legal action. That is what it claims. It is the job of the article to report on what is being claimed.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
None of my friends have EVER acted like this when I have been around them. I have also not encountered this before at any company I have worked at.
Every business I have worked with would have had the offending employees get one warning and then be out the door the next time it happened. I can't even imagine any engineering company being okay with "microdosing". The liability alone would kill that idea.
Even when I have been in a group of only male masters or phd students we mostly talked about science, engineering, movies, games etc kind of topics but not sexual exploits.
This is reprehensible behavior and should not be tolerated.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Which is why boys need adult supervision. Men, specifically, to set an example.
A man acts with dignity, self-restraint, and consideration for others. He doesn't do shit just because the people around him are doing it, and he doesn't pressure other people do things without a good reason.
If none of that sounds like any fun, feeling obligated to impress other guys with bullshit isn't any fun either. It's a bigger, more joyless burden than acting like a grownup, you just haven't figured that out yet.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I agree entirely. As a man I would not have wanted to work there either. I understand a certain amount of off-topic conversations at work but this is way outside what is okay.
If you discuss a new movie, tv, scientific study, etc at work that is fine so long as it does not take up too much time but not this kind of stuff.
In general I would also avoid politics and religion. :)
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
In Obama's America, female White House Staffers got paid less than their male counterparts. At the very least, Bill Clinton had this level of sexual harassment for years, and by some accounts crossed into rape. Al Gore also engaged in this type of behavior, but his investigation was magically dropped during the Obama years. And yet, you never comment on these because of.....reasons.
Please, please stop with the anti-Trump bull shit. Do not give people a pass because they play for your fucking team. Take the time to judge ALL politicians, and do so the same way. At that point, then maybe you will have credibility to comment. Until then, you are human trash.
I was sexually assaulted as a 10 year old. When saying it to feminists they will repeatedly say "you are a man, it does not count".
Feminist here. I'm really sorry you had to go through that. I can tell you know, it absolutely does count. Sexual assault against males is a real problem, and one which we want to solve.
I don't know who you spoke to, but they don't really sound like mainstream feminists. There are some asshats who otherwise have broadly feminist views, even though they, for example, exclude trans women. Like any philosophy, there is no control over who believes it and no control over who calls themselves a feminist, but please understand that it is not mainstream feminist thinking to discount sexual assault of any kind.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
At another place we had to ask the new parents to tone down the discussion of their children's potty training.
What in the world could be so graphic about a toilet training discussion that it would need to be "toned down"? I could see if they were making you smell a dirty diaper, but just talking about one? Did somebody mention naughty bits by name?
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
News flash: most men and most women are exactly like this.
No they don't.
You should probably stop seeing certain people and start to get new friends because you are clearly in an unhealthy environment if you think this behavior is normal.
We would be eating lunch or drinking coffee and they would start talking about the consistency of their kid's shit, and speculating about what foods caused it to be that way, and how best to clean it up. Once or twice we just made a few noises and they shut up, but somehow it kept coming up.
Someone, I don't remember who, said something and that was it. They realized that most of us were not used to having another human being's excrement under our fingernails and didn't need to be reminded of the smell or speculate as to what that smell indicated... People get into their little bubbles sometimes and need a gentle reminder of social etiquette sometimes.
I expect someone will accuse me of being the thought police now.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Excuse me! I happen to like sexual topics and I find it very offensive that you would call that interest of mine reprehensible.
Seriously, though, it depends on the company you are in. If the people around you are okay with it, then I see no problem at all. The question here is how realistically was the company's attitude represented to the employees during their job interview.
I am not trying to gauge the chances of this being the case, however there is a chance of some people being okay with that and now trying to get their hands on a bit of cash after some falling out.
I don't find your interest reprehensible. I find it reprehensible that this happened in a company setting. There is a large amount of peer pressure for people to just go along with something especially if their job is involved. Even if people are uncomfortable with something or are even disgusted by it they will often put up with it so they can keep their jobs and get promotions. This creates a hostile working environment and it is not acceptable.
If you want to talk like this then do it in a context where there is no coercive force on others present.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
News flash: most men and most women are exactly like this.
No they don't. Not in the 20+ years of my technical career. Of course, I worked mostly for Fortune 500 companies. Professionals are expected to act as professional and keep their personal life out of the workplace.
Boys will be Boys and have their fun... Time to hire some men who have matured and have some respect for others I guess.. Of course, if management is full of boys instead of men.. Have fun trying to fix this.
What is this culture thing where women are treated this way? My father taught me to respect women both by respecting my mother and insisting I do the same. Come on boys, grow up...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
This is just "bro-tastic" behavior. The people I choose to associate with don't talk about this sort of BS either, not because it's "reprehensible", but because it's childish, one step above fart jokes. We have more interesting things to discuss.
On the one hand, this is the sort of BS that's inevitable if you try to staff a tech company with jocks instead of geeks. Never cross the streams! Jocks and frat boys go into sales, obviously. This "brogramming" trend is clearly getting out of hand.
OTOH, discussing sexual exploits isn't particularly different from discussing the big game last night. I don't care to hear about either sort of athletic behavior, but, hey, headphones, problem solved. Or are we sticking to Victorian or 50s-America notions?
On the gripping hand - drugs at work? Really? Red flag if I ever saw one. I'm not sure how you'd even filter for that as a candidate, unless the office smelled obviously of MJ or something. Is this something new at frat houses too?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
"I'm gonna call me a couple of hard, pipe-hittin' Johns..." You're right, it really does change that context quite a bit!
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
TFA is even better than the summary - allegations of absolutely incredible misbehavior. The interesting thing is: There's not any wiggle room: the craziest allegations can be easily proven (like: sending a email around the office with your STD test results).
That said, neutral journalism it's not. The allegations are very clearly heterosexual allegations (men interested in women). So when the author writes:
the employees allegedly had a “kink room” in the office that contained a bed and was intended to “encourage sexual intercourse in the office.” Male employees allegedly used the room for its intended purpose...
then it is absolutely wrong to write that "male" employees used the room, because they will have used it together with their female sexual partners. Which makes one suspect that this is not a men-harrassing-women problem, but more generally an entirely inappropriate, sexually-loaded work environment, with both men and women acting out in unprofessional ways.
In any case, time will definitely tell, because there's no hiding some of the stuff that is alleged. Either proof exists, or it doesn't.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
If you're going to link to conspiracy site and RT mouthpiece zerohedge, why not link to the Enquirer too so that we can learn about bigfoot's alien babies?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Excuse me! I happen to like sexual topics and I find it very offensive that you would call that interest of mine reprehensible.
There's a valid reason you don't talk about sexual exploits while in church. Environment matters.
And if you really want to know why you can't talk about "reprehensible" topics in the workplace, ask a lawyer.
I doubt they were hiring pricks. They were them...
Let me guess... the founder is 25-years-old?
Putting aside the harassment claims for a second, this sounds like what happens when you have an immature "executive team" running a company fueled by large VC investments. If a company's culture encourages a frathouse mentality, and its executives display that culture, that's exactly what regular employees will see and emulate. It goes down to the department level too - I've worked in IT departments for a number of companies, and there are always problem child departments, usually sales. Some salespeople are just walking sexual harassment lawsuits waiting to happen, and companies tend to turn a blind eye to it when they're "rockstar" salespeople. Working in software, there's just some guys you don't want to get paired with on customer visits because they're just embarrassing. Watching an overweight middle aged balding sales dude hitting on a customer's receptionist or female employees (unsuccessfully) is cringe-worthy.
I do think that years of anonymous online communication as a primary means of interaction does contribute to some of the problems. I'm a guy, and a very liberal laid-back one at that, but it would never occur to me to say or do anything unprofessional at work. I've mentioned on here in the past (and been raked over the coals for it) that people need to understand that free speech doesn't mean you can let whatever comes to your mind slip out. People need to learn impulse control, and not seeing the other person on the other end of your conversation emboldens people to say things they normally wouldn't. Look at any comments section on any online news outlet that uses Facebook logins - even with a person's name, picture and sometimes employment history written right out there, I have a hard time envisioning some people saying the things they say in a public setting.
What I think is funny is that this second tech bubble is playing out almost exactly the way the first one did. We're headed for the top -- products and services are getting wackier every day, there's a million copycats of every single idea trying to squeeze out the last few VC dollars in a space, and the investors are finally starting to shut off the money faucets. It's almost like 1999 never happened, and no one alive at that time has any memory of it. This is going to be one of many flame-out stories in the next 2 or 3 years.
So, the homeopathic approach to hallucinogens?
Hunter S. Thompson wound not approve.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
In any culture there are extremists, it is nice to hear from a sane member of a culture often portrayed as extreme in general.
I thought we just called that a Ritalin prescription.
Not Ratalin: Prozac.
They're both pharmaceuticals that adjust brain serotonin levels. Prozac is just a bit less of a sledgehammer in how it does it.
Oh, we've got that where I work too. We call it a Keurig.
Yes, but that's not micro dosing.
At least, not the way I use it...
No, it just means that it would be equally bad if it were a woman doing it.
Apart from the bit about men and women being "interchangeable" being wrong, what you say makes no logical sense. You might as well argue that instead of complaining about "getting stabbed", women should just buy knives and join in the stabbing because clearly the issue here is equality, not grievous bodily harm.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
When you say sexual assault against a man, I'm assuming you mean homosexual/gay...a guy raping a guy?
Otherwise, I can't see any heterosexual sexual assault, I mean, a chick can't rape a man.
But I do think it is worse with gay rape, as that its well...a guy taking a guy which really isn't in the "norm" of behavior, and hurts a guy more. So, yeah, that's a big deal. But isn't really the same thing as heterosexual sexual assault....which is more of the normal act between men and women. Its bad but I don't think as bad as homosexual assault which leaves the victim with even more psychological problems.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Bullshit. I'm part of a "mixed company" club that shares a locker room on occasion. The conversation is by no means clean, but there's no bragging about sexual exploits or pressuring anyone into doing drugs. Why not? Because we have respect for each other and are there for a specific purpose that has nothing to do with sex and drugs. Some people drink, some people don't. Some people smoke, some people don't. Some people probably do drugs, but they keep that to themselves if they do and don't let it interfere with what we're doing. Some people are having sex with each other, same sex, opposite sex, whatever, but they do that on their own time and don't let it be a distraction. Nobody had to be told to act this way and there are no rules governing it beyond basic conduct when in public. You have to get along with a diverse group of people, often in challenging situations, so you don't act like a total prick. It's simple common sense.
The "boys' club" mentality is the aberration here. By removing all consequence in a "everything's acceptable because we're all guys" environment, you amplify the absolute worst in human behavior. And then you justify it with the "boys will be boys" defense, assuming that everyone is naturally like that. Except that situation self-selects the loudest and the meanest, forcing everyone else to either go along with it or leave. Because anyone who has a problem with it is told to shut up, ridiculed until they give in, or worse. The assholes are a vocal minority but look like the majority when you let them make the rules. And then that eventually extends beyond the "safe space" of the locker room or wherever into other aspects of these people's lives.
The point here isn't that boys and girls are the same, it's that everyone is different, regardless of whether they are boys or girls. And in that sense, they're all the same. In that they're not. But everyone should be treated the same, like they're worthy of dignity and respect. And that's not a fantasy; if it can happen in a coed locker room, we should be able to expect it from a workplace.
That's odd, because whenever I'm mentioned being sexually assaulted (at 14), I've had sympathy from Feminists (despite me not actually being all that bothered about the incident - it wasn't at the same sexual violence level as rape.) Maybe the people you were talking to weren't Feminists, but assholes?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Exactly! These kinds of stupid antics are exactly what prevents a company from succeeding. Horrible culture limiting actual communication, and driving away the best talent for sophomoric idiocy. Everyone who has ever worked there should be a plaintiff to show the real fault was with the leadership itself. Investors should also sue immediately.
I thought you hired an HR dept full of pretty women to keep the nerd programmers motivated .......
That's the marketing department. You hire old ladies for the HR department to keep the young ladies in the marketing department in line. Programmers can stick to their VR.
I was like 15 when I figured out sex is just another body function, just like eating or going to the bathroom, and from the looks of the world population numbers a trivial one at that. It's just not an interesting topic.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Are you psychotic? All of this is utterly unprofessional behavior, and a big chunk of it is *illegal*. Drugs are still illegal throughout the USA, it's a federal crime. So it this type and degree of sexual harrassment. Anyone who condones this sort of behavior in the workplace is a moron, risks the entire companies' standing, is ripe for a lawsuit (which they will easily win), and overall, a jackass.
If "people are OK with it" then they should all be fired summarily.
This is the sort of people we are turning out in this country - morally bankrupt and self-centered.
The difference is that you don't need to shake it, you'll acquire the shakes after a while anyway.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Ha, your sig could very well be an extension of that comment.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
So, in other words, the opportunity to grab someone by the pussy makes you less likely to talk about it?
If only the prez had known...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Too true, either women should be treated the same or different. They need to pick one.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Hey! When you call me and force me to get to work at 7am, you get what you get!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I left a place years ago because the guys were really creepy like that, and I'm a dude.
I had *one* internship like that where the boss overshared everything about his 'lifestyle' life. I then went to work in corporate America. And while some times it is a bit dry I couldn't imagine that sort of discussion ever coming up. We still find plenty of non-work stuff to talk about. I talked a co-worker into trying Linux.
But I'm not the type of guy to sit around and 'bro' out about what I do behind closed doors, let alone "Hey, you know what sounds like a good idea? Consuming drugs on the job".
It sounds like these guys had a good idea in college and were never forced to grow up. There are plenty of times and places to discuss what ever you want. While trying to get work done isn't one of them.
that would imply there's not any LSD in what they're taking... there's just maybe a 10th of a tab or so... not a 10th of a 10th of a 10th of a 10th of a 10th of a 10th
Reading this remind me of some invaluable advice that I once heard : never go full retard. Maybe it is useful to you too?
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
If I had found myself working in a company full of "bros" like this, I would be looking for a way out.
But then, I'm over 50. Way over 50. The testosterone poisoning has abated. But I do have a daughter, and
seeing women treated like that would probably cause me to drop a dime.
Wait 'til I hold my fingers under your nose after wiping my little darling's ass and ask you whether you think that smells more like the results of milk or the oatmeal.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I may agree that there are subjects that are questionable at work because they have ability to heat up emotions like they did with you now. I can agree then to limit such discussions to small groups where everybody agrees on principle that it is ok to discuss them. If not the leave it. Yet I do not see a reason why such discussions in general are reprehensible. Is only male sexuality and way of males around it evil and disgusting and we all have to follow the way of mellow or do you think there are different allowed ways of behaviour as long as all agree on basic principles?
As for drugs use I do not know. We all know origins of IT were obscured by sweet smoke. If you can cope with work and use whatever you consume I do not care. I used to drink a glass of whine to a Friday meal with colleagues - considering my drinking habits back then it was microdosing too. I got older and for years now do not do it anymore because it disturbs me. There are situations where this is absolutely not OK to have even small doses of whatever substance one consumed in the system, there are others where you should leave it to responsibility of the crew members. If they cannot hold it - a supervisor knows what to do (I would hope at least that they do).
As for subjects discussed at lunch - well I rarely if at all eat at the premises so it is only business of mine what I discuss. I do understand a notion of a business lunch but if it is a real business lunch then there are business rules to be followed.
Most of these things can be discussed. I have impression neither side wants to.
And excluding workers from important meetings who didn't participate in the drugs is not merely laughing at them.
Heh... I wouldn't be surprised if those "important" meetings turns out to be pot parties or orgies.
So... women should also not become engineers but men should stop being engineers?
Is there some sort of road map what should be copied and what should be avoided, or is it arbitrary and depending on feelings?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Masturbating on company time is just over the top.
I disagree; it's another bodily function that can be handled in private. However, telling someone you're doing it IS over the line.
I don't find your interest reprehensible. I find it reprehensible that this happened in a company setting.
I'm sorry but if you can talk about the game on the weekend or this funny youtube vid you saw you should be able to talk about sex. Just because a large population cringe up whenever they hear the word and like to pretend its a dirty disgusting thing they would never do doesn't make it more or less a legitimate thing to talk about. Obviously if someone doesn't want to talk about something you shouldn't force it on them but you also shouldn't let someone take a topic off the table because they don't like it. People need thicker skins than running to HR whenever they overhear something they don't like.
Personal anecdote, a couple women in an office I worked in were well into books, fair enough, but the books they enjoyed were basically biographies of kids that had been abused and basically been through some of the most horrible shit you can imagine. Still a legit thing to write about, no arguments there, but they would openly talk about the graphic content of these books to each other, not forcing anyone else in or anything but other people could definitely hear them. No one really liked overhearing it but no one would dream of telling them not to talk about whatever they wanted. The only real rule was no swearing infront of clients and they never did.
Unless you are going to white list some topics for the workplace and everything else is no go then you can't really tell people to talk to each other according to your sensibilities.
Even if you are disgusted by it and only put up with it to keep your job and get promoted then good, well done, you've become an adult and might find getting on in this world a bit easier.
Furthermore, should women be treated sensitively and protected from things men think they might not like or should they actually be treated equally and expected to deal with it?
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Uh are you serious? Have a woman forcibly strip you in front of one of your female friends because she wants to 'show you off' And then pull out your limp dick and bitch about it not being hard in front of an audience.... (completely ignoring the fact that you don't want to do this now and are repeatedly saying no and moving her away)
How would that make you feel?
Pro-Tip: If a company has a kink room, do NOT attend the team bondage meetings.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Professionalism is definitely taking a hit in tech.
Professionalism is fine everywhere else that is not San Francisco. I have worked in and with plenty of companies of all sizes outside CA and saw nothing like this.
It is about very young males being given access to a lot of money without consequence.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yeah, but you'll need seriously augment your legal department. You know, when you get sued for categorically refusing to hire women.
I'm sorry but if you can talk about the game on the weekend or this funny youtube vid you saw you should be able to talk about sex. Just because a large population cringe up whenever they hear the word and like to pretend its a dirty disgusting thing they would never do doesn't make it more or less a legitimate thing to talk about.
The reason why it's not suitable to talk about in a work environment is because it makes most people feel uncomfortable. This isn't complicated. Get into the reasons why it's jusfied or not, but if the question is how to maintain a non hostile working environment, not permitting people to discuss things that make a large percent of the population cringe up is kind of obvious.
Incidentally, I don't mind talking about sex, but I sure as shit don't want to talk about you having sex, so in return, I won't talk about *me* having sex. This is not complicated stuff.
Unless you are going to white list some topics for the workplace and everything else is no go then you can't really tell people to talk to each other according to your sensibilities.
No, some topics are blacklisted around the office, because there are not that many that make for a hostile work environment. You're doing a lot of mental gymnastics to excuse some reasonable limits on behavior that the majority of the population agrees with.
"Old man yells at systemd"
So, the homeopathic approach to hallucinogens?
Hunter S. Thompson wound not approve.
No, that would involve removing all of the hallucinogen from the base substance. In this case they were actually taking the drug, just in small amounts.
About 10-15 micrograms. Every 4 days.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Dude, I never claimed to be a feminist nor did I wish you to get assaulted.
Again, you are rephrasing something to give it a different meaning, and by different I mean false. This is going on a ridiculous level of distortion, and I'm not even sure you're aware you're doing that.
It seems to be common these days that people replace facts by their feelings and think to get away with it. Beware, you cannot change reality by ignoring it nor claiming it's something different, it will hit you hard back at some point.
It's not because you put yellow goggles on that the world has suddenly turned yellow. Just saying...
Video of some good progressive thrash music
The reason this is happening is because those who pretend to be our betters and deign to tell us what is acceptable behavior have systematically gone about destroying societal norms for the last few generations. There was a time when a group of men would have the common sense and decency to confirm discussion such as those described to the locker room, club, or some other place outside of mixed company. Of course, if you spend 50 years telling boys that girls are not different than them and that they are exactly the same, then why are you going to be surprised when boys act like boys and include girls in the conversation? I mean, girls are no different, right?
One of the problems is that you end up with structural gender discrimination when business is discussed and decided in places where one gender is excluded. I've seen it first-hand with a local fraternal organization that a boss was a member of, it was essentially an old-boys-club and they did negotiate deals where women were not admitted. Ultimately someone figured out that they accepted public money for some of the charity works they did though, and they were forced to admit women if they wanted to continue to receive public funds, and they did relent. A similar practice has been perpetuated on the golf course, in "Gentlemen's Clubs" (not the strip-club type, but probably there too), and in gender segregated smoking parlors when those were more commonplace.
I have no doubt that sexualized antics ensue in those kinds of places, and that "locker room talk" doesn't remain in the locker room. Having seen a bit of that kind of behavior firsthand, it's basically a bunch of grown men reverting to being fourteen year olds again, mostly falsely boasting like inexperienced juveniles. It's fairly pathetic to see actually.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
The laws of the country within which the firm operates, for starters. The morals of the community within which the firm recruits next. This is an example of the failure of leadership to enforce laws because, perhaps, they personally disliked them. That however doesn't excuse them from obligation to follow them. The "culture" resulting from recruiting similar poorly educated and socially immature children will bankrupt them, and the investors should also sue immediately to recover their money on the basis of fraud and misuse.
Err...and exactly "how" are they going to do something like this against my will....a woman forcing a grown man and overpowering him?
I think that's a bit unlikely.....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Yeah, I kinda didn't say all that as well as I could have. I didn't mean loudly talking about something with the intention of other people hearing and becoming uncomfortable, that's a dick move. And I didn't mean talking about it with someone who doesn't, that's also a dick move. More just two people talking about a subject the way they would any. I guess my point really was people should be able to deal with overhearing people talk about something that they might not want to and not throw some kind of hissy fit. In my books the only thing that makes for a hostile work environment is hostility. As in workers being hostile to each other, not that some are unable to deal with adult situations in a grown up fashion. None of this is really all that relevant to TFA anymore so forget I said anything lol.
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I honestly have no idea what you are talking about now.
Anyone who wants to be an engineer should have the opportunity to be an engineer, without barriers due to gender or race or sexual orientation. Have I not said that often enough?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You know the wrong feminists then.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
And talking openly about sex is bad... why?
Yes, and if people don't conform to your vision of society, you'll send in the jackbooted government goons to force them to comply at gunpoint; you don't tolerate dissent.
Indeed, you have been quite clear about your fascist conception of society.
Some men don't always have issues getting an erection when there is physical contact, irregardless of their desire to. Not only that, you obviously haven't dealt with investigations and issues around sexual assault and rape. Woman on Man happens more than people realize and gets brushed away due to people with opions like yours. It does happen. It's still a crime.
The point is, what is "good" behaviour that should be copied by the sex not doing it, and what is "bad" behaviour that should be stopped by the sex doing it.
And who gets to set the standard?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Did you even read the lawsuit? I think "condom wrappers and underwear on the floor of the office" is pretty unambiguous. Not everything is some cryptosemite conspiracy.
Oh come on, they only left condoms and underwear lying around in the designated company sex room. That's perfectly normal, right?
How weak are the weakest men / strong are the strongest women?
Do you have conscious control over your boner? Interesting trick, maybe you could share it with the rest of the world who have certainly experienced a non-controlled boner at some point.
Remember: not *full* retard.
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
Making unwanted sexual comments directly to someone is the textbook definition of sexual harassment
No it isn't, coercion is. Anyway that quote stresses "right to their face" as being unacceptable, and says nothing about how the "victim" demonstrated that it was unwanted.
Well, if it is some ugly, fat chick that holds NO attraction to me...no, I'd not be hard and ready for sex.
And yes, I'd dare say most men can control their erection, especially if they're over the age of 14yrs...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Na, some animals are just more equal than others.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
If you are asking what the current situation is, then in most countries the law sets the standard as behaviour that would be problematic for a "reasonable person". The definition of "reasonable person" varies, and often ultimately comes down to what a jury or a judge decides. Tests are things like if it would cause a reasonable person distress.
If you are asking what I think the limits are, it's hard to enumerate every possible situation. You could post some examples if you like. If you are asking who I think should decide, I think the "reasonable person" test is the least bad option.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I am pretty sure California actually has laws to criminalize stuff like that.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
John McAfee- The Charlie Sheen of Silicon Valley.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
I'm... not sure I follow what you're trying to say. Are you trying to say that the woman made an unfounded allegation because she was in a cutthroat employment situation and she needed to find a way to secure her job, or that the guys were being rude because they were trying to impress the boss with their rudeness?
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
The problem here is, I'm not reasonable.
I have no idea what a reasonable person would do. I'm the kind of guy who is unfazed by you telling him about your sexual exploits (mostly due to me not really caring). It upsets me greatly, though, if people are irrational.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Talking about your private sexual exploits is essentially social ego masturbation.
Keep it to yourself if you really need to dwell on that to stroke your ego.
Lets all hear one fired persons account of a story and implicitly assume it's all true untarnished by hyperbole. Don't wait for outcome of suit or production of objective evidence judge now now now in the lynch mob of public opinion.
Microdosing is indeed, commonly the practice of taking small amounts of LSD, but also extends to other drugs. I believe the typical micro-dose is about 25ug or 25 micrograms. The typical hit of LSD is about 75-100mcg, and everyone is different, so you're right, it may take some "adjustments" to figure out the right dose. I think 15-25mcg is perfect, you don't really feel the effects of under 50mcg.
640k ought to be enough for anyone.
I've been in Corporate America (IT, specifically) for 15 years now, and I've never seen anything remotely close to the kind of behavior being described here (or at Uber). Is this just a Silicon Valley thing? Or just a "these two companies" thing? I can't grasp how this kind of behavior goes unchecked for so long.
I'll just drop this in here and hope you educate yourself.
http://www.popsci.com/science/...
You sound like you're implying that these two opinions are equally "out of the mainstream":
- being biologically and genetically female determines whether or not you are a woman
- there's nothing wrong with raping or sexually abusing men or boys
The fact that anyone might think these two opinions are at all comparable shows something seriously sick about how far off the rails our society has gone in the past fifteen years.
I am just going to address the sexual harassment issue, since I know nothing of drugs in the workplace. That is not something that is commonplace where I live. I would not call it reprehensible if it's culturally acceptable in the region. Pressuring others to partake on the other hand... well that's a different story.
We talk about sex at work; we even have running gags about penis size and coital infrequency. It's not everybody, but some people have this level of candor with each other. We are also quick to let others know when we feel like a topic is getting too personal, and we always tread lightly with a new person around. There's one woman who works in our office a few days a month, and she prefers our work environment to the other stuffed shirt offices elsewhere. But also, we know to be a bit less raucous about certain topics when she's around.
I wonder if the plaintiff ever tried asking nicely for people to lay off the sex talk? Frankly, I don't really understand why talking about ones sexual exploits is considered sexual harassment. It's not harassment when my coworkers make me uncomfortable talking about various "political" topics (though why scientific topics like climate change have become politicized is beyond me). Why is talking about sex treated magically different?
I take issue with the GP's claim that most women are "exactly like this." Very few women want to talk about sex around men. I have known a few free spirits who had no such hang ups. But for a lot of women, sex is just such a non-important part of their lives, it takes the back burner in conversation, even among their closest friends. Think about it: they have so many other things to talk about. Family, politics, TV, hobbies, food, science, games, kids, music, school, work. When would you even find the time to talk about sex? Most men on the other hand think about women and sex incessantly.
With that in mind, I don't find discussing sex in the workplace reprehensible at all. I think it's an equalizer of sorts. Every man on the totem pole knows that his real boss is the one he goes home to every night. The guy making minimum wage gets a little satisfaction knowing that his boss hasn't gotten lucky in three months. I think you have a good point, though, around certain groups of highly educated people, the discussion of sex takes a backseat to all the other heady issues of the day. I don't know if there's deeper meaning to that, though.
I suspect the cash (upfront, and from future employment) is significantly better by not putting the video on youtube and instead saving it for the court case.
Yes. Because you're in a building full of superstitious control freaks who have every intent and plan to enforce their opinions on you to whatever degree they can manage. The valid reason you "don't talk" is they will screw you socially to any depth they can for not complying with their delusional idea that an imaginary friend made people write books telling them (and therefore everyone) how they should live and act.
All the frat house mentality and sexual harassment stuff came from the 'white collar workplace' 'frat bros' who WEREN'T on the internet, and also the (mostly ditzy and slutty) female counterparts (when they thought no guys were listening, or they considered you one of the girls...) The people online, while there were a few outliers who made socially unacceptable comments, by and far kept up the appearance of civilized conversation, even when full on clique wars were taking place and unpleasant conversations were being had on the back end (badmouthing people, sexual comments, etc. But almost NEVER around the 'plebs', had to keep up appearances after all.)
However, since Facebook took off (MySpace was the stepping stone, but the culture truly devolved once everyone standardized on Facebook/Amazon/Google/etc,) the worst of meatspace society has come to the internet and as a result of that reinforced their bad behaviors by being able to have 'safe spaces' where all their friends reinforce their worst behaviors with none of the checks and balances normally provided by dissenting voices. The current mess of American (and many foreign!) political landscapes is a result of this. It has lead to polarization of opinions and a societal inability to listen to or accept the views of others. Not that these are new issues in society, but that the internet has helped make it so that you can find ONLY likeminded individuals quite easily and filter out those you disagree with on a scale that had been impossible in the past, outside of 'engineered communities'.
The reason why it's not suitable to talk about in a work environment is because it makes most people feel uncomfortable.
I don't agree with your premise. I think most people are OK with some level of discussion about sex. It's something almost everybody has done. It's something that everybody feels a certain level of insecurity about. And it's something that can foster a sense of rapport when discussed among peers.
If you make your discomfort with the topic clear, I will avoid it with you. But if you happen to walk by when me and a buddy are talking about this crazy thing he did in high school, don't expect us to censor ourselves immediately.
There are pastors who have entire sermon series about sex, including lines about how wives must be submissive to their husbands. I'm sure their secretaries are uncomfortable with these sermons, but they had to hear the rough drafts of each one. Should the pastors be sued for sexual harassment?
This is what's so idiotic about cultural conservatism: the belief that there are a handful of groups of uniform people (in this case just two groups, men and women, who all think like their fellows). It's ironic that they're unable to even process the concept of individual uniqueness and thus somehow interpret liberals as saying everyone is the same, when of course liberals have always been saying the exact opposite: that everyone is different.
The reality of being a responsible adult is that you should evaluate the people around you to determine whether it's appropriate to talk about certain iffy subjects. But no, you cannot simply say "there are women around so I won't talk about this" and "there are no women around so I will talk about this". That may be a factor in your evaluation, but should certainly not be the only factor. There are many men who will find you disgusting and lose all respect for you, and some women who won't mind or will join in. What you need to learn to do is evaluate the environment as a whole and read the signals from those around you when you test the ground. Sorry if that's too complex for you.
This space intentionally left blank
You can't sign away your basic human rights.
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
This, so much this.
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
If you have to look over your shoulder to see if you might offend someone the subject at hand isn't worthwhile in a professional environment to begin with.
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
Thank God you're incapable of running any company
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
You can choose what you say and you can't choose what you are.
This is really very simple and based on fairly simple human decency. Work is a place for getting work done. You can talk about off-topic things at times so long as it does not interfere with the work. There are some subjects that most of us know makes other uncomfortable and so we avoid them while at work. One of the examples giving in this thread is two women talking about abused children in a book and I would also say that is not appropriate for work.
There are many topics that are pretty safe to discuss and don't cause others to feel uncomfortable. I am not talking about safe spaces or any of that other stuff that keeps being brought up. These are people you have to work with every day and often need to work with them for years. Making them uncomfortable is just going to harm your working relationship and directly make your life worse long term.
In the end show some basic professionalism and decency towards others. If it is so horrible for you to control yourself then maybe you need some help.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Charlie Sheen is the John McAfee of Hollywood.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I said *most* which is a rather key word, here.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
'refuses to wear a condom' and 'has had sex with over 1000 people.'
wondering what kind of sexually transmitted diseases he was carrying?
Apparently all of them.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
You know what else won't hurt you? Shutting up about baby shit upon request.
Grow up indeed.
As long as bigfoot's sexual escapades with the aliens were consensual I'm okay with it.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Kids these days (75-100mcg??)...when I was a kid, a tab had 250 micrograms or we wanted our money back.
I'm told, in the 1960s a typical dose was 1000 micrograms.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
How can a woman forcibly rape a man? If he's not wanting to, he ain't getting hard...and if he is hard, well, you can't rape the willing, you know?
"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." -Todd Akin
they don't really sound like mainstream feminists
Oh they come in multiple flavours now. Cool.
Does that include running it to the ground?
Ezekiel 23:20
What's the difference between a slut and a bitch?
A slut fucks everyone, a bitch fucks everyone but YOU! A psycho bitch fucks everyone but you, then tells you about it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Well, I"m serious. How can a woman forcibly rape a man? If he's not wanting to, he ain't getting hard...and if he is hard, well, you can't rape the willing, you know?
Your questions are similar to asking "If she didn't want it, then why didn't she scream?" Someone doesn't have to be literally tied down and screaming for sex to be non consensual. Tonic immobility is a common involuntary response, for example. Being drunk or drugged is a common situation. An erection as an involuntary response to fear, stress, or anger is common. A blowjob, handjob, or grinding don't even require an erection. Feeling coerced, confused, and vaguely threatened by the situation and unsure of how to stop it or whether stopping it would be dangerous is extremely common. Imagine anyone feeling powerless in these various ways in a sexual situation, and you should be able to understand how it's definitely possible for a man to be raped by a woman. Also, remember that the specific situation you're discussing is about a 10 year old boy; would you have expected him to have whatever response you expect from a grown man?
I was expecting they had a room where they recorded VR kink. Disappointed.
I'm from the US, have worked at several companies, and I agree with Ambassador Kosh. I'd be appalled at that sort of behavior in the workplace.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
LSD is seriously illegal in the US. Any company that puts up with its use is taking a grave risk. Anybody that pressures someone into using it is also subject to serious criminal penalties. Any company that pressures its employees into illegal activities is reprehensible. Any company that tries to make the use of mind-altering substances necessary for normal workplace interaction is despicable, since there are people who absolutely should not use them, and their situation is usually not apparent.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Rumors are this kind of thing is more common in the video game industry.
I've never seen anything close to this any place I've worked, though.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Wrong. There's all sorts of coercion a woman can use on an unwilling man to force sex. Penises don't automatically go flaccid under stress. There's also sex stuff that doesn't require an erection, such as forced oral sex.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
That's what weapons and other threats are for.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
How do you think the laws got to be that way? They weren't when I was a kid. Feminism had something to do with it.
The pay gap is real, but more complicated than just paying women less on a general basis. Typically, women in a specific job make very little less than equally qualified men in that job, but there's a lot of other factors involved.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Yeah but men cost twice as much so you won't be able to compete with all of those companies that employ only women to keep salaries down.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
My first reaction to your comment " I can't see any heterosexual sexual assault, I mean, a chick can't rape a man" is to call you an ignorant pig, shit in your mouth, and burn down your house with you and your family trapped inside. This reaction is not your fault. It is merely misplaced rage from my rather recent realization that I lost my virginity at the age of 13 to an adult female rapist.
I was drunk. Insensate for the most of the attack. My rapist aroused me from unconsciousness by masturbating me with her hand while scratching, biting, and forcefully sucking on my neck, chest, abdomen, and legs. She also performed oral sex on me, biting me as well. When I became awake enough to become sexually aroused she would mount me and slap and bite and suck on my neck to try to keep me awake enough for her to get off.
I was covered in hickies so thick around my neck that when I went to school they wanted to call CPS on my parents. The principal was convinced my parents had choked me and tried to kill me. Luckily for my parents, but of the utmost embarrassment for me, Oprah had just done an expose on auto erotic asphyxiation. I heard someone whispering that term in the office outside and shortly after that my pleas to not call CPS worked.
It took almost 20 years for me to admit and realize I was raped. It happens. Don't fool yourself, and please realize how incredibly offensive your statement is to someone who was raped by a woman.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
You can have discussions (even regarding sex -- even joking about sex) in mixed company without acting like a total ass.
If you wouldn't say it to, in front of, or about your mother, you probably shouldn't say it to, in front of, or about your female coworkers either. And that's just a pretty simple rule of thumb (especially if your mother's pretty uncouth herself and is OK with that kind of talk!)
Treating women equally does not necessarily mean treating them identically (and vice-versa of course, though historically speaking there hasn't been much need to worry about things going the other direction.) There are of course obvious differences between boys and girls and there's no problem with recognizing that. Where the problem comes in is when you use that as an excuse to degrade women, abuse them, pay them lower wages, or any of the many other shitty ways men have treated women throughout most of human history.
I'm sorry to hear that you bred. Maybe you should have thought twice about that.
Shows what you know, successfully retired and well past any statute of limitation.
Anyway tell me more. I love to hear management theories of how hiring landmines is good for business.
I don't know, my taxes aren't going up this year, hows yours in California doing ?
I just heard Gov. Brown call the people actually working and paying them freeloaders.
Hmmmmm
I disagree, albeit mildly. I have had, and continue to have, work friends who I discuss sex, religion and politics with. They vary widely in their beliefs, affiliations and personal relationships and I call them friends because I can disagree without offending them. I consider both the Tea Party ultra-conservative guy and the ultra-liberal lady as friends. This despite disagreeing with both. Both feel absolutely comfortable discussing politics, religion and personal experience with me because I would never make them feel like what they discuss with me as a friend in any danger of affecting their working relationship. That's how friends treat each other. Some of my work friends are comfortable discussing their sex lives and others aren't. My friends are friends because they know that they don't need to censor themselves around me.
My co-workers who aren't comfortable discussing those topics are still comfortable because I wouldn't bring up anything to make them uncomfortable. I wouldn't be offended, but if they're not comfortable, then I won't put them in a position where they'd feel any pressure to discuss it. Maybe someday we'll be friends, maybe not, but it won't be because they're afraid they'll offend me.
Discuss whatever you want. Discuss it at work (on break or lunch) or not. If you're genuinely just being yourself and not hurting anyone, then I can be your friend. That's about the limit: don't hurt anyone. If you're offending someone, offending my friend or my friend offending someone else, then I'll try to nudge you toward considering the feelings of other people. It's not that hard.
Just be considerate.
Disclaimer: Didn't RTFA so my comments reflect only my reaction to my own experience.
B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
That's nonsense, you can't fit a milligram of anything onto a blotter square.
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
No, a lot more than that.
For mushrooms for example, 3 grams is a pretty serious trip, 2 may be a normal dose.
But even 0.75 is a very notable effect, energy, some warm feelings, still recreational.
A micro dose would be about a third of that, no directly noticeable effects, but hardly homeopathic low amounts.
I'm not weighing in on if it's any more than placebo, but I'd think 1/3 of obvious effects KS definitely doing something. It'd be the equivalent of a beer (if three is where you feel a buzz, but not drunk.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
" you should be able to talk about sex"
It's not a question of being able to talk about sex, it's being forced to listen to talk about something not related to the job while trying to perform the job.
Your sex talk has nothing to do with my job, why should I be required to expend the effort to withstand your distraction?
Your sex talk has nothing to do with my job, why should I be required to expend the effort to withstand your distraction?
I dunno, same I reason I should have to drown out people talking about the latest episode of cop drama or whatever.
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No, I've heard of less is more, but equal is equal. Or is it like a more equal than others kind of deal?
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Hmm... Could I have the bitch? That's one STD I evaded...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I disagree; it's another bodily function that can be handled in private. However, telling someone you're doing it IS over the line.
I think the open plan office would be a bigger issue.
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
That's nonsense, you can't fit a milligram of anything onto a blotter square.
But you can do multiple tabs, like most of my friends were doing in the nineties. (I didn't exist in the sixties, and can't speak to that era.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'm sorry but if you can talk about the game on the weekend or this funny youtube vid you saw you should be able to talk about sex.
I'm sorry, but your comment contains no logic whatsoever. You're claiming that because A and B are true, that C must be true, without showing any associative link between A and B or C. Perhaps someone can pop up to tell us which logical fallacy that is, but it's not even a very good one.
Furthermore, should women be treated sensitively and protected from things men think they might not like or should they actually be treated equally and expected to deal with it?
Expecting them to deal with subject matter they find threatening in the workplace is not equality. Women are really and actually subjected to sexual inequality and sexual abuse on a regular basis, which is why anyone who actually cares about other people's feelings and who has two neurons to rub together understands that it's not appropriate to create a sexually charged environment in the workplace.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
And if you are physically stimulated while you are restrained? Oddly enough most men don't learn to shut off that particular autonomic response at 14yrs old. Maybe you grew up a little strange.
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
There's plenty of logic. If you can talk about one non work related subject you can talk about another. Maybe you should actually treat women with the respect they deserve, treat them like adults and not little kiddies and they might surprise you with their resilience. Look, this has got away from what TFA was about so I'm just talking in general, not about creating an atmosphere of any kind. If you don't think women can deal with hearing something they might not like, then maybe you are part of the problem. Stop trying to protect them and let them sort themselves out. Put your cotton wool away, they don't need it and won't be able to get away from it until you do.
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Sugar cubes were the first common delivery device. Before my time, but so I'm told.
Can't put a milligram on a blotter square? Why not? Blotter paper is heavy, I'd guess a 100 sheet weighs easily 2 or 3 grams. Plenty to carry a milligram per.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If you can talk about one non work related subject you can talk about another.
No. Not all non-work related subjects are equal, and none of your fevered imaginings otherwise will change this.
Maybe you should actually treat women with the respect they deserve, treat them like adults and not little kiddies and they might surprise you with their resilience.
To my mind, treating women with the respect they deserve means listening to them and responding to their concerns.
Stop trying to protect them and let them sort themselves out.
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you wanted me to treat them with respect. Women have asked for protection in the workplace. Besides, this is not about letting women sort themselves out. This is about sorting out men who are behaving in an abusive fashion in the workplace. That you imagine or want to rephrase the debate to make it about women's behavior proves that you are nowhere near respecting women.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Haha when did I try making it about women's behaviour? Seriously, try just treating them equally, no special treatment just because they're women, have the same expectations you would of any man. Equality is the name of the game, try it, its liberating.
Wanna buy a shirt?
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Seriously, try just treating them equally, no special treatment just because they're women, have the same expectations you would of any man.
In that case, I expect that if a man expressed that he was uncomfortable discussing something in a professional context which was not related to the profession at hand, you would have the basic respect that one should afford another human being and not discuss it — and that you would treat a woman in the same fashion.
Equality is the name of the game, try it, its liberating.
Either you treat both men and women as subhumans, in which case you have nothing to teach me about the way I should treat people, or you in fact treat men and women differently, and are lying to yourself about what you think and how you behave because this preserves your image of yourself as a wise and reasonable individual.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Folks anywhere will think you're not worth listening to if you make such generalizations about feminism and personify it to that degree.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You do have an idea what a reasonable person would do in many situations. You've observed other people's behavior. I'd bet you can act like a reasonable person if you want to, much like the rest of us.
If you're tolerant of other people's behavior, that's great. A female coworker once told me an extremely dirty joke that I though very funny, in a semi-private situation. That doesn't mean it isn't going to disrupt the workplace if everybody tells dirty jokes as a matter of course.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Seriously, try just treating them equally, no special treatment just because they're women, have the same expectations you would of any man.
In that case, I expect that if a man expressed that he was uncomfortable discussing something in a professional context which was not related to the profession at hand, you would have the basic respect that one should afford another human being and not discuss it — and that you would treat a woman in the same fashion.
Equality is the name of the game, try it, its liberating.
Either you treat both men and women as subhumans, in which case you have nothing to teach me about the way I should treat people, or you in fact treat men and women differently, and are lying to yourself about what you think and how you behave because this preserves your image of yourself as a wise and reasonable individual.
Your first point. Exactly correct. I'm not talking in the context of TFA here, just in general. TFA very much breaks the 1st rule of don't be a dick.
As for your second, I give everyone I meet the same initial respect I would give anyone else and expect of them. It then goes up and down accordingly but where they keep their junk isn't a factor in that. You can treat women with same respect you give children if you want, it really makes no difference to me.
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You shouldn't. Those people are invited to take their silly-assed discussion down the hall.
Most feminists that I've met, at least those proclaiming themselves as such, repeatedly used the word "equality", but in fact strongly preferred women to men, leftists to rightists, minorities to whites, etc. Hell, some of them even defended a minority poet when girls accused him of harassment. Some of them actually helped him sue these girls for defamation.
Maybe you got to meet other feminists than me, but around me, most feminism is just a pseudo enlightened form of conservatism and sexism, only slightly modified. I admit that it is possible that this is because I live in a conservative religious state, where even "feminists" and "leftists" are strongly effected by religion.
If it helps in any way, I'm aware that feminism wasn't always like this, and I'd guess that in europe it's probably less like this. I keep hearing stories like mine from the US, sure, most of them come from alt-right, but even if 25% of them are true, I think that there are many of these types in the US as well.
I believe that in conservative places, feminism is in danger of just becoming a tool of conservatists.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Women can rape men. If you rub it, it will stand. If it stands, you can ride it. If you are strong enough, or the man is very drunk, he can't move.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Actually no.
Given enough stimulation, you'll get hard and orgasm no matter your conscious opinion in the matter.
And that makes it all the more horrifying.
And not just men, some women have orgasmed when being raped and that makes them feel even more powerless and self-disgusted.
It's not just physical force, but emotional force.
Sure, he might have been able to physically force himself out of the situation - but would he have been able to do that without hitting or hurting the woman?
A lot of us guys are old enough to have been trained from a very early age to _never_ hit or hurt a girl, or even touch her without her permission - no matter what. It's extremely hard to break the conditioning.
It sounds like you spent a lot of time thinking about how you can justify speaking inappropriately in group venues. And you defend it by claiming others offend you and you did nothing to stop it. Are you saying people should not stand up for themselves because you don't stand up for yourself?
Just because you think something is ok does not mean that others who disagree are simply wrong. If what they claim is true, it is hostile. And if employee is caught pressuring another employee to take drugs, then they should fired on the spot.
Either these ladies are lying, or these managers are complete asses. There is no option where this is true and it is ok.
Sexual topics can be perfectly acceptable and harmless fun. But the workplace is not a context where it can ever be any of those things.
A workplace should be a place of professionalism. Certain topics have no place there - not least because the people around you are not your friends - they are your colleagues.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
So you start with talking about how the Bible only covers humans and bigfoot and aliens aren't human, and then immediately proceed to talk about human dominion over animals. Can you spot the logical flaw here? CHECKMATE THEISTS!
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
So what you're saying is, it's okay to rape bigfoot?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Not if you mean a human raping a bigfoot, as the Bible does have passages about bestiality.
But does bigfoot count as an animal if it's sentient? What about sentient aliens? Not human and not beast. Sounds like a license to rape to me.
is the human then guilty for failing to not get raped?
Only if the human likes it.
Regardless, we really need to Vatican to weigh in on all this.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
I advocated all this that you wrote? Wow.