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Security Analyst Concludes Windows 10 Enterprise 'Tracks Too Much' (xato.net)
A viral Twitter rant about Windows 10 Enterprise supposedly ignoring users' privacy settings has since been clarified. "I made mistakes on my original testing and therefore saw more connections than I should have," writes IT security analyst Mark Burnett, "including some to Google ads." But his qualified results -- quoted below -- are still critical of Microsoft:
- You can cut back even more using the Windows Restricted Traffic Limited Functionality Baseline but break many things.
- Settings can be set wrong if you aren't paying attention. Also, settings are not consistent and can be confusing to beginners.
- You are opted-in to just about everything by default and have to set hundreds of settings to opt out, even on an Enterprise Windows system. Sometimes multiple settings for the same feature. Most Microsoft documentation discourages opting out and warns of a less optimal experience... But you can't completely opt-out. Windows still tracks too much.
- Home and Professional users are much worse off due to limitations of some settings and lack of an IT staff... I'm not saying ditch Windows. I'm saying let's fix this. If we can't fix it, then we ditch Windows.
You are opted-in to just about everything by default and have to set hundreds of settings to opt out, even on an Enterprise Windows system. Sometimes multiple settings for the same feature. Most Microsoft documentation discourages opting out and warns of a less optimal experience... But you can't completely opt-out. Windows still tracks too much.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this essentially the definition of "defective by design?"
The increasingly hostile and draconian moves by Microsoft simply serve to prove that the majority of Microsoft customers are in a co-dependent relationship with Microsoft: afraid that no matter how bad things are with Microsoft, they will be worse without Microsoft. It must suck to live like that.
I know, I know. Some people cannot ditch Microsoft, but most people can and it would cost them only marginally more effort (and probably less in many cases) than they expend dealing with all the crap Microsoft is throwing at their customers these days.
The problem isn't Windows. The problem isn't even Microsoft.
The problem is that we don't have strict laws governing the protection of user data. There needs to be serious and utter consequences for pulling this sort of shit. The sort of consequences that would make any shareholder board go "holy shit, let's not fucking do that". Until that happens, absolutely nothing is going to change. You might be able to pressure Microsoft into releasing a patch or two that appears to offer some sort of reprieve, but then they'll get back to doing exactly what they've been doing before, and probably torque down the screws just a little bit tighter while they're at it.
Unfortunately, with the USA now gunning for net neutrality, I doubt anything like this would ever happen. Corporations have too much money and nobody gives a shit about the user. As long as the users keep paying for stuff (because they "have no choice" or don't want to slightly inconvenience themselves), nothing will ever change.
So you better get used to it, because Windows 10 is just the start.
>I'm not saying ditch Windows. I'm saying let's fix this. If we can't fix it, then we ditch Windows.
Well, maybe you can do what I do... ...I run Windows 10 on a separate SSD, and run Linux daily on my Main M2. NVMe.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
spybot anti-beacon is a good start. also wireshark your way into happiness with windows. learn about policies. learn about how the management tools work. I bothered to learn Windows inside out and you can too.
c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
you can find the list to null route on github, etc
The problem with optimal experience is that Microsoft means their own experience not that of the users. Optimal for them means that the customers are eyeballs for advertisers and with easy to access to data for analytics. Optimal experience for the actual users means that they can turn off Microsoft's control, nothing ever defaults to opt-in, and they don't get tracked or advertised to.
It's call Linux and it's vastly superior in almost every way to Windows. Don't worry about Windows 10, just switch to the worlds best Desktop Operating system.
We already know it's unfixable. What's the delay in ditching Windows?
I think that, for many people, if running Windows required the user to endure an electric shock, they would still not ditch it. They have such little imagination that an alternative is possible.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
" If we can't fix it, then we ditch Windows."
"We" can't fix MS Windows, only Microsoft can.
Any one think they will?
Home and Professional users are much worse off due to limitations of some settings and lack of an IT staff...
I haven't fixed anyone's computers in years since I started charging $300 per hour.
Sad to read another article about painful writhing over using Windows.
Ditch Windows.
Ok Anonymous Windows PR rep. I can do anything on Linux someone can on Windoze and without the anal probe
My business runs entirely on Linux. So does NASA. Those cute little Rovers that we have on Mars right now, Linux. Oil companies use special security Hardened versions of Linux to run the oil wells. If all these organizations are running Lenox just fine, the problem must be with you. :-)
WTF are you talking about? Linux works perfectly fine. Seriously. It really does.
The problem with Linux isn't that it doesn't work, it does, and usually quite reliably. The problem is, and I think that this is what the OP meant, that it just isn't user friendly.
Installing drivers are not automatic, like the are for most devices under Windows today. Finding applications to take place of existing Windows applications, including financial apps, are much more difficult. Granted, as more companies provide web based apps this becomes less of a concern. Finally, Linux still doesn't have major gaming support. If you want to play the latest high end games then you need a PC running Windows (Yes you can buy console systems, that's a different discussion).
Yep, linux linux linux... all us geeks can rant about the virtues and advantages, but at the end of the day, the rank and file want to run office and a web browser. MS Office is the lock-in that sells Windows... and while Wine promised to solve that it's way too complex for most people. Enter PlayOnLinux, which makes common Windows software installation just as simple as on Windows. Point, click, install. Holy $#%@ it just works, and ALL that Windows telemetry is gone, because Windows is gone. And I don't miss it.
To keep it short: I set up Linux Mint and ran updates (about 10 min total install time, from bare metal), installed PlayOnLinux (about three clicks into the Software Manager app), then used that to install MS Office (including Visio), registered and all. The Cisco VPN works (of course), the browsers are faster (of course) and work well with corp apps, and MS Office just works. Tons of other stuff Just Works(tm). Corp IT never hears from me, all the tools just work, everything's much faster, and I didn't have to do ANYTHING at the CLI -- in fact, it was easier and much faster than typical interminable Windows setup processes. It's beyond me why people still put up with the stress of Windows, or insist that it's easier (it's not) or more secure (*snort*).
I think not...(*poof*)
Sadly, Windows is a brand, a familiar name to pretty much everyone. Linux is getting there too, but the unfortunate part is Linux has a reputation of being 'geeky, technical, difficult to use, not for end-users.' Which is really sad and completely wrong, the Linux Mint team have put together one of the easiest to use systems I've seen. It's not perfect, but it's definitely easy to use.
Linux needs to work on it's reputation with the general public. I'm not sure how we go about doing that other than educating everyone we as IT goons come into contact with. I've personally 'converted' a handful of people from Windows to Linux Mint, it's pretty amazing when people realize, 'wow, this is actually just as easy as windows. i never knew.'
Mint has a long way to go, however. Out of the box it's fantastic, but installing anything becomes quickly overwhelming for end users. I suppose if you're on the side of the fence that says 'Windows must die!' the best thing you could do is contribute to Mint's development. And show it to everyone you meet.
Microsoft might self-destruct if they push Windows S too hard, that is just a nightmare. That'll drive everyone toward Linux in a hurry. Please do it, Microsoft. Push Windows S harder.
You should be saying ditch proprietary software precisely because nobody but the proprietor (the very party you can't trust) is legally allowed to fix this (where the word "fix" is a fix from the user's perspective, of course, since the software already works as the proprietor has programmed it to work). That's what proprietary software means and that power over the user is why proprietors distribute their software without respecting a user's freedoms to run, share, and modify the software at any time for any reason. The system's behavior can change at any time, so even if someone monitors what a particular variant of a non-free, user-subjugating OS does now that can change later. Perhaps the software only does something bad under conditions one doesn't typically reach, or maybe an update changes how the software behaves. Furthermore, said software updates don't have to come through an updating program which seeks a user's approval before installation (such as Windows Updates).
The GNU Project has no shortage of proprietary Microsoft malware and that includes universal backdoors, snooping on user's activities, ignoring user's settings on so-called 'privacy' settings, and sending identifiable data to Microsoft and third parties ("even if a user turns off its Bing search and Cortana features, and activates the privacy-protection settings").
Digital Citizen
While the guy might not be a world-class IT specialist, he does report the truth. Window 10 does track too much, and you can't even opt out of it.
Unfortunately, the last sentence of the summary is delusional. There is only one company that can "fix" it, and they refuse to.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
I've found the opposite to be true. Linux ships with 99% of the drivers you'll ever need, on Windows part of the install is traditionally using another machine to search vendor sites for drivers. Also many things that are trivially simple on Linux, like channel bonding, are hard or impossible on Windows depending on vendor and hardware support.
Just enjoy Microsoft for games.
Let Microsoft track all the hours spent playing games.
Anything of value use a real OS.
Why risk all the malware, CIA, NSA code and other security services?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I want to zig-zag here a bit. We all agree that MS is doing it wrong with telemetry on Windows 10. So then, fellow Slashdotters, what is the right (or at least, righter) way to do it?
I don't see telemetry ever going away entirely, and I'm not sure that would be a good thing even if it could. If there's one lesson to take from the first couple of decades of computing, it's that the general public and their computers-as-appliances attitude have no idea what they want, and even when they do, they can't explain it very well. Whereas telemetry, for better or worse, tells you precisely what the user is actually doing.
The author puts the difficulty of opting-out in term of numerous, confusing, and hard-to-find settings that need to be changed.
All of these settings must be stored in a database somewhere on the HD, why not create something that directly edits the values and automates the process?
The (soon manned!) SpaceX Falcon9 rocket runs on linux, including control of each of the 9 engines and in-flight updating of orbital parameters in case of an engine problem. The Windows license specifically forbits using Windows for anything more serious than a coffee machine.
>Those cute little Rovers that we have on Mars right now, Linux.
Ackchyually, they're running vxworks.
Spybot abti-beacon fixes mst of it, even if it can't kill cortana.
https://www.safer-networking.o...
The ultimate problem is that Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, etc. have paying customers but over the past few years their marketing and business wonks have been looking covetously at how Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, etc. exploit... err... I mean "interact" with their non-paying users and have decided that they want their have their cake and eat it to. If Microsoft wants to give away the software or hardware (without attaching conditions about what software the vendor can or can't sell) great, but if I'm buying a license for software to run on equipment I own that should (in an ideal world) mean you have no right to exploit me or my equipment for further monetary gain.
It works so well that I'm currently bisecting my kernel to find a regression for sound over HDMI on my HTPC that broken some versions ago.
I'm currently down to some long list of 200 changes from some "drm-next" branch. Yay, so fun!
Linux (the kernel) works like just any other kernel. The problems are usually in the userspace though.
Yes, only Microsoft can fix Windows, but they won't do it unless they feel threatened.
When the PS4 and Xbox one were about to be released Microsoft revealed that the Xbox would require constant connection to the Internet to play. They players revolted and Sony said they wouldn't do it. Microsoft (correctly, IMO) sensed that could be a fatal blow to their console and backtracked really fast.
Something of that caliber would have to happen for they to remove all the spying in Windows. What could that be? I can only think of mass migration of governments and big companies. Alas, that is very unlikely to happen.
In the end this is just another thing that shows how bad monopolies can be (In this case is a monopoly in the sense of "OS that can run Windows software and drivers", ReactOS could theoretically be an alternative but realistically they'd need billions of dollars to get close to Windows).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
About 10 years I'd have agreed with you. But today? Aside of your gaming argument, this isn't the case anymore. Installation of tools and drivers is actually easier in Linux today than it is in Windows because way more tools are part of the whole distribution package. There are very few tools and programs I had to install manually lately, and I tend to use rather exotic tools due to my job.
Your argument about games is (still) valid, though even there you can see improvement. With more and more games using standard platforms like Unity or Unreal Engine which come prepared to compile your programs in Windows/Linux/MacOS without any major code changes, games running natively in Linux becomes at least a reality in Non-AAA games with their own engines.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Window 10 does track too much, and you can't even opt out of it.
True, you can't opt out of it within Windows which is pretty much unethical in my book. There are third party tools available (like Spybot Antibeacon) where you really can turn it off.
Know what the problem is? Remember all that talk about big data being the next big thing? It's here and all this "telemetry" data is being sold because it is considered very valuable.
We'll make great pets
Spybot Antibeacon is decent, but best paired with W10Privacy.
Here's the thing about Win10 though: changing general settings, registry keys, and group policy settings isn't enough. You also have to block many domains and ip's of various Microsoft telemetry servers! The thing still spits out data even with every conceivable setting and tweak utilized!
W10Privacy includes adding firewall rules and hosts file entries to achieve this. I suggest copying those entries and blocking them at the gateway as well. Even then, every time a new MS patch comes out, I discover yet another process sending out unfocumented data to yet another telemetry server. It's fucking ridiculous.
The one advantage of closed source over open source is it lets the IP owner keep things broken that would otherwise be fixed by the community.
The *REAL* problem is you can use the Antibeacon tool to turn off the spyware aspects of Windows, but every time you get another "update" or new version from MS, they default those spyware aspects back on, so you're playing an endless game of "whack-a-mole" trying to keep MS's nose of your bidness.. I used/supported Windows for 20 years as a sysadmin, and never really trusted MS, but since Windows 10 came out, ANY trust I may have had for MS has evaporated. When I retired in 2010, I moved all of my computers over to Linux and thats where they'll stay..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
The only way to solve this is to beat Microsoft at their own game by figuring out the telemetry data that's sent then spam them with faked data that's completely weird.
If enough people do that then the data they collect is useless.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
As I am a gamer, unless Vulcan makes Linux version of most games a reality by the end of security support for Win7, I cannot fully get rid of it. But I will likely go for one machine for gaming only and a Linux box for everything else. Alternatively, if graphics passthrough works well by then, I will jail Win10 in a VM on a Linux base. But there is no way in this universe I am going to give Win10 access to my email, browsing, and other things.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
There is a difference between things you can turn of and things you cannot. That is the whole point of the discussion. You seem to have missed that.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You should cut back on the drugs. They are not good for you.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I doubt they would permit this data leaving their networks. Same for some law firms and any other orgs working with sensitive data.
You can use the Data Protection Act in the UK to request that "a company provides all digital information that they store about you, and that where in binary/electronic format, a detailed easy to read clear, legible text explanation is provided alongside a digital copy". It will only cost a tenner.
It would be quite hard to contest the data you get back though. It is also quite hard to ensure that their process costs them more money than the telemetry data they're selling on.
Why UNIX?
Where's the info? This article is about a Twitter rant, but then has no actual information in it. This was a waste of my time to even look at.
I don't respond to AC's.
I caught Microsoft fucking my entire system over when I got new hardware and HAD to go with Windows 10 - after installing Windows 10 (Legit license) I had to install an audio driver.
Naturally, the driver prompts me to reboot.
First fucking thing it does - go straight into the "Updating computer, please wait."
It wasn't updating. What it was doing was scanning my hard drive and wiping out anything that wasn't Microsoft-related - EVERYTHING in my Windows.old directory was wiped out - my music player (which was then replaced by Groove Player,) anything that was in my old Windows 7 user profile (in-progress design work, photography work I had JUST paid for and received, future business plans, almost-finished bylaws drafts,) the ONLY things it did not touch in the Windows.old directory were Microsoft's own things, anything and everything else was deleted from my system during that 'update.' PRogram Files (x86) and regular x64 directories were wiped of anything that wasn't Microsoft, as well.
And there was no reason for that to happen, I had over 300GB free space on my drive and I know full and goddamned well Windows 10 updates didn't need to free up any space.
So, here's see what Microsoft's Windows 10 actually does:
1. Violate antitrust law by removing competing programs and replacing them with their own.
2. Violate CFAA by purposefully scanning and deleting files without explicit permission.
3. Violate IP law by destroying IP which doesn't belong to them.
4. Possibly committing corporate espionage by sabotaging plans for the formation of corporations by destroying their charter and bylaw data which is in construction.
5. Trespass to Chattels by violating the state of my system.
6. Wire Fraud by committing such crimes over wire.
I'm heading to the DA's office Tuesday to file charges. I'm done with these motherfuckers and I'm personally going directly after Satya Nadella's fucking wallet.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
When all you've got is a deep frier, everything looks like browbeaten Timbit tempura.
42 years now, and still haven't changed the original oil.
> Installing drivers are not automatic, like the are for most devices under Windows today.
Windows Update automatically installed new drivers for webcams... which made the webcams useless... oops. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tec... And if you manage to revert the update, the next update will re-install the bad driver. Ask yourself... unless there is a security fix or a genuine feature improvement involved, ***WHY*** do you need constant driver updates?
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
You can also firewall all your Windows boxes, run your own DNS server, and hijack microsoft.com, msn.com, live.com, etc. Or simply whitelist IP ranges you need for various Windows 10 services and use Linux VMs for all other Internet related activities. Between this and the forced reboots which require a certain level of "hacking" to reliably disable Microsoft needs to have a big fat class action suit filed against them. There could be anti trust issues too if our current government were honest brokers of justice.
easy, just fork the code and remove all those tracking bits...
what is that? you can't do that?
well then there is nothing you can do to fix it, so ditch windows.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
I bet my TrackIR that the Asus-Soundcard I have will crap out earlier...
But I'm intrigued, could you give me some pointers?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Why is it so important to them to know what we're doing online? Why can't we opt-out? Are they that nosey? It gains them nothing! (This is why people kiss Ed Snowflake's butt to this very day, even though what he did was traitorous. He wasn't "exposing spying". He falsified his credentials and used other agents' identification so he could flat out steal sensitive information...)
That can't be right. Dozens, sure, but not hundreds.
When I retired in 2010, I moved all of my computers over to Linux and thats where they'll stay..
Kudos to you and I would do the same if it weren't for the fact that I can't use all the software I like on Linux and that is the problem. If Linux supported all the hardware and software that people commonly use, Windows would be a thing of the past.
We'll make great pets