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The US Can't Leave The Paris Climate Deal Until 2020 (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader quotes the New York Times:
Last week, President Trump announced that the United States would withdraw from the Paris climate agreement. But it will take more than one speech to pull out: Under the rules of the deal, which the White House says it will follow, the earliest any country can leave is November 4, 2020. That means the United States will remain a party to the accord for nearly all of Mr. Trump's current term... Nov. 4, 2019 is the earliest date that the United States can submit a written notice to the United Nations that it is withdrawing from the Paris deal -- exactly three years after it came into force. As soon as that happens, the United States can leave the accord in exactly one year... If a new president enters the White House on Jan. 20, 2021, he or she could easily submit a written notice to the United Nations that the United States would like to rejoin the Paris accord. Within 30 days, the United States could re-enter the agreement and submit a new pledge for how the country plans to tackle climate change.
The article also acknowledges "a growing coalition of states, cities and companies that are pledging to do as much as they can to meet the United States' climate goals on their own."
The article also acknowledges "a growing coalition of states, cities and companies that are pledging to do as much as they can to meet the United States' climate goals on their own."
Let me get this straight... It's a non-binding accord (other than we can't leave until 4 Nov 2019). So nothing changes.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
Since the Paris deal was never submitted to the Senate for confirmation, it is not a legally binding treaty, only a verbal agreement by Obama.
I am not arguing for or against the climate deal, just pointing out a simple fact of US law.
Citation: US Constitution Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, includes the Treaty Clause, which empowers the president of the United States to propose and chiefly negotiate agreements, which must be confirmed by the Senate, between the United States and other countries, which become treaties between the United ..
-- Will program for bandwidth
Donald Trump is an international laughing stock, and so is the United States of America.
This is what happens when uneducated racists pick our presidents, because the so-called smart people are too fucking stupid to vote.
Withdrawing from the overall UN climate treaty would have the US out immediately. So would subjecting the Paris agreement to Senate ratification and having it fail. A third immediate exit path would be to declare President Obama's signing of the agreement without the advice and consent of Congress an illegal act, conducted without the authority of the United States.
It only took you this long to find something that was mentioned in the speech?
I guess you were to busy making up stories like from Feb 14.
with no enforceable requirements. It's a moot point when we pull out. The point is that we've made the gesture to pull out. It's basically a giant middle finger to the rest of the world.
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None of the terms are binding. So while we technically we might still have to be part of it until 2020, if we decide to throw it out, we can just start ignoring totally now.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
So much winning
Paris deal wasn't ratified. For better or worse, it basically is not worth the paper it's printed on given the US Constitution.
Don't pollute the Earth: the atmosphere, the oceans and the land. ..
The air is unique and from everyones that we breathe: humans, animals and plants. Same is for the water.
Don't make bigger the ozone holes.
Don't proliferate the chlorates, sulfides, carbides,
Don't cut down the forests.
And overall, there is not another living planet for us: the Earth is the only planet for us.
this is america we can do wat we want
we need to stop relying on renewable wet dreams and take advantage of the coal we have sitting in our own back yard
bring back our jobs trump
make america grate again
Since the Paris deal was never submitted to the Senate for confirmation, it is not a legally binding treaty, only a verbal agreement by Obama.
I am not arguing for or against the climate deal, just pointing out a simple fact of US law.
Citation: US Constitution Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, includes the Treaty Clause, which empowers the president of the United States to propose and chiefly negotiate agreements, which must be confirmed by the Senate, between the United States and other countries, which become treaties between the United ..
That's not even remotely true.
The Paris deal isn't a treaty, it's an "accord". Because that's different, it can be agreed to by the president without any buy-in from the legislature. It comes under the "umbrella" treaty agreement the US has with the UN which *was* ratified by congress.
And if you disagree, note that Obama actually taught constitutional law at college, and no one disagreed with the action at the time - no one in the legislature brought the issue or the supreme court, no group in the US sued the government and pushed it to the supreme court.
I don't know where people get these ideas from. A plain-text reading of the constitution does not always convey the complexity and intricacies of the underlying law.
Whether we stay or leave (or return) will be a 2020 presidential election topic.
Regulation doesn't do shit to reduce carbon emissions.
I'm not sure. Obama never had the senate confirm the treaty because it was unclear if it would have passed (50/50 chance I read somewhere). So it was basically an agreement between the Obama administration and the other partners. They even debated a lot about this to make the wording of the deal so that this approach was possible. Furthermore, no provisions are actually binding, so even if the US is still 'in' it for 4 years, that doesn't mean they will do anything. Also the US could legally have stayed in and just revised its pledge, to nothing.
If the resistance has anything to do with it, it'll be his only term.
In the mean time, if he's stuck with it he'l obviously just sabotage it, as he is doing with the ACA.
with no enforceable requirements. It's a moot point when we pull out. The point is that we've made the gesture to pull out. It's basically a giant middle finger to the rest of the world.
Not *entirely*... it also requires developed nations to give $100 billion annually to the less-developed nations.
Really. The agreement has no enforceable requirements, the goals are paltry and minor, and yet sends $100 billion to undeveloped nations to waste on corruption.
(And the US is already one of the least polluting nations, our measures of pollution have been going down over time, and this trend will continue with the introduction of electric vehicles and drone delivery.)
I honestly have no idea why anyone was ever in favor of the Paris agreement.
It's a complete and total waste.
In a world... that needed a giant middle finger displayed to it. A world... that had one man, willing to give that finger so desperately needed.
It was a world... of Trump.
QUEUE INCEPTION BASE HORN
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It doesn't matter what Trump is going to do. The companies and scientists in the US that would be doing the work under the deal have unanimously said they are still going to do the work. The only difference here is that the US wont be contributing money to 3rd world countries so they can step up their game, which honestly inst that big of a deal because none of them pollute even near as close as the US, China, and India (the latter two aren't even going to start their work until after 2020 anyway).
If it's so much of a nothingburger where the US pays and developing nations don't, why bother trying to stay in? As for the states and other entities wishing to bankrupt themselves into compliance, that's on them.
It'd be more credible if it was an actual treaty and developing nations actually did more than face-saving gestures.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Welcome to the Max Weber's world of legal materialization, United States of America. The next President rejoins the accord, the next after that abandons the accord and so on, while the NGOs, local governments and citizens do the actual changes without the explicit support from the federal government or the law. Meanwhile, all kinds of contradicting pieces of legislative cruft and contradicting orders and guidance to the executive branch can't be cleaned up fast enough. A sort of continental ice shelf of the the ice age with layers upon layers of legislation is formed. This creates an unpredictable and expensive environment for the most important citizens of the federation: the corporations!
Hard to understand your comment, except if your sole intention is to troll. Regulation regulates.
Fine and dandy to believe the Sierra Club and some highly-politicized "scientists", but AGW (unlike the natural change in climate over geologic timespans) largely DNE.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
The money is *earmarked* for certain purposes, but most of it goes to corrupt warlords diminishing their own countrymen, and to undermining western civilization.
I honestly have no idea why anyone was ever in favor of the Paris agreement.
That is solely favored by people that have a irrational hatred for carbon-based compounds as fuel. In addition, the people pushing Paris are largely shielded from the costs - they can fly highly polluting jets, power large houses, and drive smog-generating cars without worry.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Environmentalism as a cult makes Scientology look good.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Leaving the Global Climate is also leaving future jobs behind.
The pollution and Global Climate change is reinventing our future jobs and economy.
Hence, more careers available.
Instead of getting lung cancer from digging for coal.
Work in a manufacturing building solar and wind turbines.
First off, this is a TREATY and requires the approval of the Senate for it to be binding. Boy Obama NEVER sent it to the Senate and therefore it is NOT binding. "HIS" word and signature is worth the toilet papier that it was wiped on.
The reason people are claiming this nonsense is that they want to be PC about it and all nice. But if the Senate ever did vote on it the issue would be ended immediately. But since politicians don't care about what the American people want, only a high-paying job, they won't vote on it out of fear of losing their gravy boats when voting against it.
Why is it that a US Politician doing something which favors the US is giving a "middle finger" to the world? India stating in that same accord that they would not take any action until they received $2 Trillion dollars was not a middle finger to the world? The majority of countries not having to take any action yet receiving US Tax payer dollars in "aid" is not a middle finger to the rest of the world?
Sorry, but this was an anti-US agreement. Obama did a whole lot of those, and had no problem telling the world how he felt about the US, so that should not be a surprise. Read the damn thing! Pulling out is Pro-American. Being willing to negotiate a fair treaty, as the Trump administration said they would attempt to do immediately is not giving a middle finger to anyone. The countries who are refusing to talk to the US Administration are giving the finger to the US.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
By the way. Slashdot rules are that you are not supposed to mod down a post just because you are convinced it is wrong. If a significant number of people believe it is correct then you are supposed to respond with arguments and evidence, not just bury the opposing view. If it is something like a typographical error or something then you can mod it down, but not if it is a considered conclusion, even a wrong one.
Slashdot administrators have told me that moderators that modded down my good faith posts, have had, and will have their moderator privileges permanently revoked. Even though the Slashdot administrators may disagree strongly with my conclusions, burying opposing views is considered bad faith moderation.
I hope all your posts are downmodded regardless of content because of your petulant, childish, and threatening attitude.
You do not deserve to be heard if you spend half of your posts threatening others while insisting you are acting in good faith.
Feel free to leave slashdot and never return. The rest of us will benefit from you being gone. I'm sure this is not the first time you have heard that sentiment in your life.
I mean, technically speaking I guess that is true. Regulations don't retain carbon themselves. One could even make the argument that printed regulations decrease carbon storage, and electronic ones expend carbon resources. As long as the regulations reduce what other people can do those costs can be overcome. Of course at that point you are correct, regulations don't really so anything. If the regulations are properly strong and enforceable they can reduce co2 release indirectly. One reason I'm not a politician is because I would hold individual executives personally responsible for their entire organizations behavior. I bet solutions such as low emissions vehicles would be easy to deploy if failure to do so involved fines and prison. But that's only because I would classify failure to comply as terrorism.
/Paris/ is an accord of the UNFCCC. The USA can withdraw from the UNFCCC one year after giving its notice.
They talked about this recently on Science Friday, but here's an article with quite a bit of detail:
http://www.heritage.org/enviro...
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Then would Aspen, Colorado be their holy city, with Al Gore's various homes being their version of seminaries?
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
US is choosing to leave in 2020. It does not need to follow any rules in the accord.
The US has by far the highest per capita pollution rates in the world, significantly more so than other developed countries in Europe. China and India have a fraction of the money and wealth we have, and yet are spending huge amounts on solar panels and nuke plants.
Actually it's a good thing because carbon credits are exactly that, credits you can exchange for carbon fuels. The goal was to have richer nation pay for renewables and the money they save on carbon fuels would go to poor nations so they can better themselves by paying for the cheaper carbon fuels and get themselves (hopefully) out of poverty, just like previous aid to Africa has helped them not be part of the third world anymore.
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Every US citizen must be punished and forced to live in poverty to make up for the damage done to the rest of the world.
Every citizen! They are all greedy crybabies who ruined everything good in the world and they must pay.
>"So how are they forcing it down your throat, dickwad?"
Sorry, I don't respond to anonymous name throwers (other than to point out what they are). Grow up
You mean that treaty that was never approved by Congress? If you treat it like a treaty and not an "accord" or whatever that is that Obama gave himself the right to sign, then we can legally exit in a year.
Like mandating catalytic exhaust in Los Angeles did not reduce the smog problem, right? Like for India to mandate cars to be electric by 2030 will not modify long term investments and R&D for the whole world?
Like mandating catalytic exhaust in Los Angeles did not reduce the smog problem, right?
Money to third world countries tends to go into the pockets of dictators and autocrats.
No regulations are needed or demanded by the Accords. The government shouldn't regulate, but incent and report.
Learn to love Alaska
Have you looked at the Trump/GOP tax cut proposals?
>China, and India (the latter two aren't even going to start their work until after 2020 anyway)
And in other news, China and India are both well ahead of their projected schedule.
More fake news from a fake news site. The truth is, we were never in it. Obongo was in it. It was never sent to the Senate for approval, because Obongo knew it would fail to be ratified. President Trump wants it renegotiated, especially the stipulations that American taxpayers have to pay billions of dollars to India and China. So Trump gives lip service to some non binding '"rules", just to stay in the game. We are at the beginning of this, not the end. BUT Obongo is gone, and the renegotiated agreement cannot just shit all over America, if they want us to go along.
My last Accord was stolen. I never did get it back.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
I am going to go out on a limb here and say you replied to the wrong post. mindbuilder is a decent fellow.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
... So we never entered into it in the first place.
Presidential agreements are not binding on future administrations.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I mourn for the chump stuck with that car.
Learn to love Alaska
The US has by far the highest per capita pollution rates in the world
The US is 12th.
File the US as being the highest polluter under "Fake News".
The Paris agreement was never ratified by the senate so it has no legal validity under constitutional law
If you want to refute that claim you'll need a table that goes beyond 2011 and is not just CO2 before you can judge
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Since when has the US ever cared about honouring treaties? (That is, us honouring them. We get really upset when other people don't honour ours). I've yet to hear of ANY penalty, and it's a voluntary agreement anyway to "try hard to do a good job." Whatever.
Ok, so shit Democrats do on their own can't be overridden, and nothing Republicans do can be acknowledged.
Nice double standard we have here.
Divided we fall, but fuck that it's more important for progressives that their ideas be followed....
EFI did 90% of that. It was developed for racing.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
An old Accord with a VTec isn't bad, a Civic is better.
Slow cars are fun, if they're not that slow and you drive the piss out of them.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Har har, the US will do as it wants and anyone who does not agree can enjoy a nice dose of sanctions, cruise missiles and drone strikes. Covfefe, hombre?
That's interesting considering that we outsourced most of our manufacturing to China. The relevant externalities are likely occurring over there instead.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
(the latter two aren't even going to start their work until after 2020 anyway).
Well I don't know what this 'work' is but both of those countries are already taking huge steps towards greening their economies, both countries are ahead of schedule in their plans to install hundreds of GW of renewable energy generation, China probably has more electric buses than the rest of the world combined.
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
1. That list goes back to 1990, so you did not even bother to read the page.
2. The original claim has not been proven. It's refutation has.
3. Literate people typically use periods at the end of sentences.
What are they going to do about it?
Yes, I do have answers, but you don't deserve them and I won't discuss with you.
If the Paris Accord only requires Presidential approval to be enforced, it only requires Presidential disapproval to end immediately.
If Obama can do it all by himself, Trump can undo it all by himself - immediately if desired.
And note that every other country that has a domestic ratification requirement for a treaty has followed that route and gotten the Paris Accord TREATY ratified domestically.
Like the UK.
Like Australia
Like India
Like China
Like Japan
The US doesn't have to leave the Paris Agreement because without Senate ratification the US never agreed to the TREATY.
Carbon credits nave not a damn thing to do with climate change! Its a giant scam for those who own the bank you pay your money to for thosr credits to make money. Try and follow the money! Al (I'm stealing your money) Gore has half ownership in the bank!
Literate people also know the difference between its and it's.
Look up Treaty on Treaties. You will see why we are now bound by the Paris Accord - no vote needed.
We acted as if, supported some of the ideas and "agreed" that it was a positive thing under Obama. By anyone of those seemingly innocent things; we are bound and require voting to withdraw.
That's the way it is, so stop arguing that we are or are not in it.
And then we all die. THE END
Not true. The Treaty on Treaties binds us the the accord. No vote needed to get in, but it is needed to get out.
If you support AT ALL an allies proposed accord, and you signed the Treaty on Treaties - which we did along time ago - then you have bought yourself a new Paris Accord.
Not that it matters beyond us honoring it. I mean we are the biggest kid on the block.
All the progressives who have been in total freak-out mode are either dishonest drama queens, or idiots who do not even know the most-basic facts about the thing they are ranting about, right?
Also of note: most of the pundits on the left who have pretended to be reasonable have been saying Trump should not have withdrawn because he took a PR hit for abandoning a non-binding toothless agreement. More dishonesty. IF the damned thing is so toothless, then there should be no panic over our withdrawl and we should be able to get out as quickly and easily as a traditional Muslim divorce (where the man only must say the arabic version of "I diivorce you" three times)
Nice comment title - too bad it applies to what you wrote.
As for the Paris deal being an accord, every other country that has to ratify treaties treated it as a treaty (which they have to, since it attempts to bind future administrations)
Who cares if Obama taught constitutional law - he was also had more unanimous overturns by the Supreme Court than any other modern president - so even is he knew constitutional law, he sure as hell did not follow it. (And as for why no one brought it to the Supreme Court at that time - look up a little legal item called standing. Nobody has standing to sue over the action until they are constrained by the action - as nothing in the Paris accord would have taken effect, no one had standing to sue.)
How typical of someone who is most likely on the "progressive", "liberal" end of the spectrum to applaud efforts to silence opposing arguments. That's the only way such views gain prominence because they can't stand on their own. It's a fact that the US is not a part of the Paris climate deal, but apart from that, as has been pointed out by many people here, the "deal" isn't even enforceable; it's a fig leaf for climate chicken littles and achieves nothing. So what if you think the US is stuck in it for a few more years, they're not going to do squat. But children do like their petty victories so you can keep flinging poop and climasturbating to your heart's content, it changes nothing :-D
Fallacy. You assume that if someone types something online that their mistakes are all due to education or literacy. I really don't see what pleasure you get from correcting someone's misuse of a homonym.
Treaty on Treaties. Look it up, we are bound without an official exit.
We are officially in it because we agreed with it's ideals; by either supporting it actively (we did) or even publicly, even if tacitly, agreeing (which we did). (Read: Obama did).
We are bound by the Treaty on Treaties to honor the new accord or *officially* remove ourselves. (Which does require a vote).
That is why we see the date 2020. If Trump could just get out of it prior to then, he would have. He can bad mouth it all day long, but behind the scenes it carries on.
*personally I believe the Paris Accord has about as much teeth as a UN Letter. But, Trump wouldn't have had to "think about it" unless he knew he couldn't withdraw immediately.
What to do what to do...
"The catalytic converter, an invention that has sharply reduced smog from cars, has now become a significant and growing cause of global warming, according to the Environmental Protection Agency."
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05...
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
It's a NON BINDING agreement, and, if it requires congress/senate approval, they never got one. F U on this so called man made global warming garbage. It's made up, and has been. You flipping morons that believe this garbage, based on 10,20,50 years worth of climate data. HA! Given the age of the earth, it's been COLDER, and WARMER way before man ever came into being. You simpletons that believe this garbage your (un)education departments force feed you every day. Just look up the parallel between global temperatures, and the sunspot cycles, along with the locations of Jupiter & Saturn and you'll find your man made crap. The "modern maximum" in sunspots ended within the last few years, and has been on a DOWN trend, and, if the trend continues, we are headed for global cooling, not global warming. Sunspots, or the lack of, causing CME's to hit our planet, disrupting the geomagnetic bubble around our planet changes weather more than anything man could.
Treaty on Treaties. Look it up, we are bound without an official exit.
We are officially in it because we agreed with it's ideals; by either supporting it actively (we did) or even publicly, even if tacitly, agreeing (which we did). (Read: Obama did).
We are bound by the Treaty on Treaties to honor the new accord or *officially* remove ourselves. (Which does require a vote).
That is why we see the date 2020. If Trump could just get out of it prior to then, he would have. He can bad mouth it all day long, but behind the scenes it carries on.
*personally I believe the Paris Accord has about as much teeth as a UN Letter. But, Trump wouldn't have had to "think about it" unless he knew he couldn't withdraw immediately.
WE did not agree to its ideals. If it's a treaty, it requires Senate ratification before WE agree.
We have most powerful military on the planet. If we don't follow the agreement, what the hell are they going to do about it? Nothing, that's what.
According to the original definition, China is a third-world country. They are neither a representative democracy nor are they a member of NATO. They aren't a member of the Warsaw Pact either, which is what the "second-world" is. Of course the Warsaw Pact is long gone, so China is pretty much a second-world country.
You are incorrect. Also, "we" doesn't mean you personally. In fact, I'll reckon "you" will never be a part of a political decision steering the country.
That aside, the president at the time, was elected and did bind us to that accord.
Did "you" or the "people" get asked last time we signaled an agreemen with an international body?
There's no proof that climate change is caused by man, and a lot of evidence it isn't. The climate change proponents use extremely bad science. And bad math. And badly adhere to scientific method. Meanwhile prominent climatologists to a Nobel laureate, physicist point out the folly and error in the global warming preachers. But it is like arguing religion. The "faithful" aren't swayed by facts, because they place faith in a mechanical engineer that found celebrity. But he's not a climatologist. Consider, the polar bear. Dieing because of global warming. But the population is higher now. Why? We stopped hunting them, and stopped clubbing baby seals for coats. So, no predation, larger food supply, more polar bears. Greenland is melting and the seas will rise! Well, the glacier edges at the coasts are melting. But inland the Greenland ice pack is adding 5cm a year. Antarctica has more icepack even though it calves off icebergs the size of Manhatten that come from sheets of ice overhang the sea. Critical science is needed, not models that are frequently proven wrong, "adjusted" temperatures, and reliance on less than worldwide data, collected in dubious manners, and then cherry picked with the data counter to the arguments, adjusted.
Yeah but the US cumulative emissions per capita to date is still 10x China emissions. Touche! ...and US current emissions per capita are still 3x China. Point!
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Actually no.
It's pretty easy to understand that countries can't be trusted if the treaties made by one of the temporary wearer of the big hats won't be upheld by the next one, especially when they come as quickly as every 4 years, and in this country never lasts more than 8 under any circumstances.
Whether you like it or not, it's the duty of the POTUS to uphold our treaties and agreements, even if he personally doesn't like them. If he has the power to voluntarily dismiss them, he has to do it by the means allowed for in the agreement. If he doesn't like that, he can bite off his own dick for all that matters, assuming he can find it.
It had nothing to do with having democracy, as the First World countries Greece and Turkey, both members of the NATO, were ruled by military juntas in the late 1960ies and early 1970ies.
"EFI did 90% of that. It was developed for racing"
Dude, you are dense. The first EFI was developed for American Motors by Bendix, who couldn't make a go of it, so then Chrysler tried, and they couldn't either, so then the designs were sold to Bosch who put "D-Jetronic" in 1966 Volkswagen Type IIIs. (The "Black Box" was entirely Analog, and yes, they could be repaired at the component level.) Racing cars still used MFI for another decade, and morons who go Drag Racing are just now taking it up, although they traditionally despise such terms as EFI and OHC. (Huh! Huh! Me Got Big Crate Block! Me Got Holleys! Me Smart!)
Catalytic Converters went on US Cars back in 1975 when they were practically all still equipped with Carbs. (Some Cosworth Vegas had EFI, but not many were sold.) Later, FI and then EFI did two main things, reduce the loads on the Catalysts when Cold, and increase Fuel Economy, all by maintaining a Stoichiometric Fuel to Air ratio over a wider range of conditions, which included extracting more power. But since they could be poisoned, Sulfur levels needed to be reduced in Gasoline, and Tetraethyl Lead had to be eliminated entirely.
By the time any kind of FI became common on US Cars, CCs had already been around for a decade, and the skies over LA were already measurably and visibly cleaner.
Non-binding accord, never submitted to the Senate for ratification. In place in spite of a Senate resolution following the 95-0 vote against the Kyoto accord saying not to submit one without certain missing features. Only in place by executive action of dubious legality for which no money has ever been appropriated. No money, no law, no agreement.
The story is completely false. The US can leave any time, because the US is not a party to the treaty. The US ever ratified its involvement, and it is therefore not bound by any of its requirements.
...the US is leaving according to the appropriate rules, and formal departure will actually take some time.
So why are so many of you shitting yourselves with anguish over it?
-Styopa
My Accord was an '81. When it was finally retired, I had driven it as a new driver for 5 years with, no second gear (three speed automatic), no reverse, had to run the heater all the time to prevent overheating, in 110 degree heat sometimes. It had overheated, warped block, so the overheating problem, and oil leaks. No door locks. It was a hand-me-down that should have ended up in the dump, not driven by a new driver.
My '83 Civic that replaced it wasn't much better.
Learn to love Alaska
Believe what you like, it changes nothing
Carbon credits aren't tangible assets and are based on play money. Get real. Developed nations will sell things they mass produce to 3rd world countries. This will include solar panels and wind mills, not nuclear or coal plants that require significant infrastructure to support. This is going to be a market economics solution, not a made up market for people to feel good.
is it bad news or good news for US. What is he impact?
So, science solved the last serious problem, and?
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
So, in the strictest sense of the world this "accord" is in fact a binding treaty and as such requires senate approval before the president can get our country caught up in it .... so we were never legally a party to this treaty. Just because the president calls it "not a treaty" and writes his name on it doesn't make it so. So .... as such, since we aren't really part of it, we can leave whenever we like ..... but more to the point ... what are these bunch of green hippies going to do about it anyway ;)
or are you saying otherwise? Like that there are little people and big people, and big people (who live over here) are allowed to each pollute more than little people (who live over there), or something along those lines?
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
President does not have the constitutional right to agree, ratification or signin to international treaties like the Paris climate deal.
The right to ratification treaties rests in US Senate.
Pulling out of Paris does NOT mean we have to stop offering small business grants and paying for the NSF, DOE, etc. How can you even equate the two things? I imagine the $3T will be more productive when spent by US citizens (who like clean and safe energies such as solar and wind) than if it were handed to 3rd world dictators and (for some reason) China.
Pulling out of Paris does NOT mean we have to stop offering small business grants and paying for the NSF, DOE, etc. How can you even equate the two things? I imagine the $3T will be more productive when spent by US citizens (who like clean and safe energies such as solar and wind) than if it were handed to 3rd world dictators and (for some reason) China.
Where are you getting that 3TN figure?
Hate to sound skeptical but I suspect you're talking shit, you see.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
The money is *earmarked* for certain purposes, but most of it goes to corrupt warlords diminishing their own countrymen, and to undermining western civilization.
Cite please
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Fine and dandy to believe the Sierra Club and some highly-politicized "scientists", but AGW (unlike the natural change in climate over geologic timespans) largely DNE. But that's science that /. won't accept.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
The US complied with Kyoto, much to the detriment of its own citizenry (read: the majority not living in the coasts or in environmentalist Colorado).
As for Paris, someone wanted an uninterruptible gravy train from the US to some BFE country, even at the cost of entire US regions. Americans got their choice through representation, and the US exited it, despite the claims from the MSM to the contrary.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Politicians and the mainstream media pulling more shit out of their ass whenever it serves them.
Sorry about your "rules", but we aren't "required" to follow any such thing, and what are you going to do if we ignore those rules?
It was never ratified by congress, full stop.
WE did not disagree either. WE don't agree to fund a tax cut to the richest people. WE don't agree to invade Iraq or Syria. WE don't agree to NAFTA. WE don't agree to nuclear warheads or selling to the Saudis. WE agree to let the president and the government decide things.
Don't like it? Run for president and pass a resolution to make it all 100% direct democracy. Or leave and get your own country.
And you're not an engineer of any shape or form.
the US, China, and India (the latter two aren't even going to start their work until after 2020 anyway)
Actually, China has gotten very serious about the issue and is on track to be well ahead of its commitments by 2020. In January China announced that it is investing $360B in domestic low- or no-carbon power generation (wind, solar, hydro and nuclear), to be installed by 2020. China has already cut its consumption of coal sharply, and is on track to keep cutting it further. China is also investing heavily (about $1T over the next few years) in green energy production around the world. Much of that money counts as a donation to third world countries under the terms of the Paris Accord, but China is going to end up owning much of the energy infrastructure in Africa and elsewhere, which means it's going to end up with huge influence and economic power in those regions just as they start to modernize... and start buying lots of Chinese-made goods.
China has recognized that not only is Global Warming a problem to be solved, it's also a tremendous opportunity to create an economic empire and obtain concomitant political influence throughout the emerging markets of the world. While the US dithers and disengages, China is going to step up and establish a new Chinese-led world order to replace the one that America created after WWII.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Obama's signature on an international agreement is worth nothing with ratification by the Senate. Any of us could sign it and it would have the same effect - NONE!
cronies will be enriched.
How can you hate on a car that kept running with a warped head? You can't keep running aluminum head cars when they get too hot. It will trash them all.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Just more fake news by NYTimes!!!
Slashdot people STOP reading NYTimes, CNN, MSNBS, Washington post, and the Huffington post.
As in like, why do we do this to ourselves?
From TFA, it reads like this accord is nothing more than a friendship contract. Aren't we all fucking grownups here?
How much money is wasted through PAYING people to make shit like this even happen? Christ.
I tend to rant.
Or what? You'll repeat the same false point yet again?
> That's interesting considering that we outsourced most of our manufacturing to China.
This is an incorrect urban legend. The US produces about as much as it ever has:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k2F...
We do it with a lot fewer people these days, due to improved productivity. The stuff we import from China is in *addition* to the domestically made stuff.
>Hate to sound skeptical but I suspect you're talking shit, you see.
Why the hell would you hate to be skeptical, are you too stupid to question what you're told? The $3T is a "middle of the road" estimate. They vary between $1T and $5T depending on who did the study. I'm not going to give you any one link or study, I suggest you do some reading and draw your own conclusions. While you are doing so I strongly suggest you leave behind your hatred for sounding skeptical, being skeptical is a necessity in today's world, especially when politics and climate change are involved.
According to Wikipedia, the US didn't ratify the 1969 Treaty on Treaties. But even if it had, the President and the Senate cannot alter the Constitution even by a treaty and 2/3 vote. Altering the Constitution requires 3/4 of the states. Even a treaty on treaties duly ratified by the Senate, can't give away the Senate's obligation to ratify treaties. The Paris Agreement is a treaty regardless of whether it is called one or not. The words of the Constitution have a particular meaning. And something doesn't stop being what it is just because you label it something else. For example, if the Constitution requires 3/4 of the States for something, you can't just slap the label "State" onto a bunch of kindergartners and give them a cookie for their signature. A kindergartner is not a state. The Paris Agreement IS a treaty. The American people ratified the Constitution based on the plain meaning of the words. They expected the protection that comes from the Constitution denying the president the power to unilaterally enter the US into binding treaties. But even if the treaties on treaties was binding on the US, no country could reasonably claim that the American people were bound by the President's agreement, not after the House of Representatives voted to nullify the President's status as a representative of the American people.
The head was fine. The block was warped. I can pop off a head strip it of valves and the like) and send it to a shop for a $200 re-finishing. The block was warped. You can't re-machine a block for less than the cost of a new block. It wasn't worth a full re-build.
My father drove well under the speed limit at all times. So he didn't ever need to glance at the speedometer, or warning gauges. So the oil pressure and heat gauges didn't mean anything, until the engine blew and he couldn't see through the smoke. That's when it became "mine". I rebuilt it myself on a budget, and got to drive it to its true death.
2nd gear "gone" in a 3sp auto is rough. if it shifted to 2, it was in N. So to merge on a highway, you keep the throttle on the floor until it shifts to 2, then release, until it shifts to 3. The accelerate as hard as possible without downshifting to N. It certainly helped with traffic prediction skills. And rebuilding an automatic transmission was beyond me, so I left that thing in, especially since there was so much else wrong with it.
Learn to love Alaska
Every time Trump tries to do something 'landmark' it turns out it's just him not understanding the way the world/politics/reality works. I understand he's "the president" but are his aides really not allowed to fucking taze him or something equally subduing when he goes all Orange-Maniac on the country?
He's solidly his own worst enemy, and just won't listen when people try to tell him he's being an ignorant asshat - even his own kids.
Honda blocks are cast iron, they crack rather than warp.
It was the head, it's always the head. Not usually repairable by decking. Even if it was, your compression would go so high you'd need AvGas.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Actually no. It's pretty easy to understand that countries can't be trusted if the treaties made by one of the temporary wearer of the big hats won't be upheld by the next one, especially when they come as quickly as every 4 years, and in this country never lasts more than 8 under any circumstances. Whether you like it or not, it's the duty of the POTUS to uphold our treaties and agreements, even if he personally doesn't like them. If he has the power to voluntarily dismiss them, he has to do it by the means allowed for in the agreement. If he doesn't like that, he can bite off his own dick for all that matters, assuming he can find it.
POTUS does not get to pass treaties for the USA; only Congress can do that. POTUS negotiates them but Congress authorizes them. The Paris Accord was never passed by Congress. It was only negotiated by the former POTUS administration. Therefore the USA is not actually a legal party to the Paris Accord and therefore can completely ignore it. That is, after all, how the Constitution defines the Treatise process for the USA.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
Decking to smooth it out, and a fat gasket to keep compression manageable. Or maybe it was the lack of oil that damaged the block. The oil pressure was never right after that, even with a new pump. And I don't know if it was ever right before that, I didn't drive it until after the engine blew.
Learn to love Alaska