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Visa Considers Extending 'War on Cash' Business Incentives Outside US (cnbc.com)
Visa is hoping to extend its "war on cash" agenda to businesses in the U.K. after announcing new incentives for U.S. businesses to go cashless. From a report: The payment technology company revealed on Wednesday that it was launching a "cashless challenge" which would see 50 U.S. businesses receive $10,000 each to help them convert to a cashless payment model. It is now aiming to roll the model out to the U.K., though is yet to set a timeframe for the launch, a Visa spokesperson confirmed to CNBC Friday. Under the scheme, businesses in the U.S. are invited to submit plans outlining what going cashless might mean for them, their employees and their customers. Recipients of the award will then be required to use the lump sum to upgrade their point-of-sale systems so they are completely cashless. Any remaining money can be put towards marketing, the company said. "We're declaring a war on cash," Andy Gerlt, a spokesman for Visa, said in the announcement Wednesday.
Making sure we get a cut of everything you spend, and know what you spent it on.
Lovely
Seriously... I don't even try to fight it anymore. The enemy is infinitely more powerful and the so-called "resistance" pathetic, weak and disorganized. I haven't changed my mind or philosophy one bit, but I realize that nobody will ever listen to my "words of wisdom" and thus, it's no longer meaningful to try to win people over.
Wish I could skim a couple percent off every transaction too.
I'd be all for an alternative to cash as long as it was managed without transaction fees by the local government backed issuer of the currency. Time to nationalize Visa/Mastercard?
We all know this is effectively a sales tax, now they seem to want to monetize purchase behavior through tracking/selling my usage.
Now they want to make it for all transactions.
Expect pressure for barter/exchange to be declared illegal next..
Once they succeed , what stops them from increasing their sales tax to 5%, 10%? the FTC ?
And this is all for my benefit ? no..
OK. It's obvious that VISA wants everyone to use credit cards so they can rack up fees, but we need to consider the other implications of this war on cash. Cash is untraceable. Someone doesn't like that.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Also, frist psot!
Freedom to not have your every purchase tracked and the profile sold without your consent.
Maybe we need to declare a war on visa.
Unless you like sending a cut of every sale to credit card processing firms.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I know there will be objections:
1. They're tracking all our purchases!
So what? Mine are boring.
2. Discriminates against the poor!
Too poor to put $1 in a credit union account to get a debit card? What cash?
3. Businesses will raise prices to cover higher costs.
They already take plastic. Eliminating cash will save money.
THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
Never understood how apartment and rent can be required to be non-cash payment.
Another issue is how do I pay my neighbor kid to mow my lawn with a credit card?
Another issue is that I simply may not want Visa, and via third party records, the government, know exactly what I'm spending on and how frequently. The phrase "None of your business" comes to mind if for no other reason that it is, after all, none of their damned business.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Good.
Carpet-bomb their treacherous thieving headquarters and feed them some democracy for once.
Good luck getting the government to try to fix this - they're the ones which made it possible. Visa/Mastercard lobbied for and got laws passed which made it illegal for merchants to add a surcharge if you pay with a credit card, to help them recoup the credit card processing fee. (That's why you see some places advertising a cash discount - it's a loophole in the law.)
There would've been a lot more downward pressure on the 2% processing fee if merchants had been allowed to directly pass the fee on to customers. People would've preferred to pay with cash until credit card companies were able to lower the cost to something more reasonable, like a half or quarter percent. Card networks which had higher fees (e.g. Amex) would've had a tougher time than card networks with lower fees (e.g. Discover). But thanks to (corrupt) government regulation, competition to lower processing prices was eliminated, and we're all saddled with what's effectively a 2% sales tax to a private company. Even if you're paying with cash, you're paying the tax as the cash purchases basically subsidize the merchants fees for credit card purchases (since you pay the same amount for cash or credit in most stores).
And no the fee is not for protection against fraud. The merchant pays for fraud, not the credit card company. When you spot an unauthorized charge on you bill and request a chargeback, the card processing company issues a notice to the merchant asking for proof the purchase was valid. Usually this is the signature on the credit card receipt, but for online or automated transactions this can be things like the billing address or phone number (that's why gas station pumps ask you for your zip code). If the signature or other information the merchant submits doesn't match, the transaction is determined to be fraudulent, and the processing company simply deducts the amount of the charge from the merchant's payment. The merchant is out the money and the merchandise. The only expenses the card companies have to pay for are infrastructure, equipment, and staff. With the modern Internet and computers, this is probably on the order of pennies per transaction.
Except it would be the only type of war Republicans would vote against.
If credit card companies want to be seen as a real alternative to cash, maybe they should stop exploiting their customers and the merchants?
Of course the corp and government are all in for cashless
For them it is:
- Constant stream of revenue
- Easy to destroy whatever opponent life they wish (try buy food / travel in a cashless society without cash...)
- Easy to trace you, peasant, wherever you go
For us, peasants, we trade all the above with...
- Not to have a few hundered euros in our wallet (quite useful if you get mugged, to simply let the robber get away without hitting you in anger)
What a rip off
They say cash is freedom. I'm sure someone with the means or influence could at the very least make THAT little connection for people across the country.
Visa is declaring war on freedom.
That'll go over great.
Surcharges are illegal, but cash discounts are not. Some merchant agreements try to ban them. But even then, make it a freebee after X dollars cash deal.
Business just has to have the balls to raise their middle fingers to VISA. I've seen more than a few that are ATM and cash only. I bet that costs them less than 2% in sales.
The elephant in the room is Apple/Google pay. VISA _should_ be worried. After 40+ years of VISA/MC's 'we're the only game in town' attitude, everybody should be looking for alternatives.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I thought most businesses prefer to be paid in Tide anyway.
Why do they prefer to be paid in Tide?
Because it's too cold out Tide! #Dadjoke
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
...Visa extends war on the poor.
In my opinion, not accepting legal tender in favor of utilizing non-government tender, in this case a Visa card, should be illegal. I have relatives who don't have a credit card or even a checking account because their credit is crap. It's their fault but shutting them out by not accepting cash is ridiculous.
Will they give me money to start up a bitcoin only website?
I pay everything I can in cash. Almost all transactions on my bank account is cash withdrawal from an ATM machine. Except morgage, car, insurance... payments. And sometimes maybe a couple of rare online transactions. Now I spent a LOT less on stupid things like I did in the past. The less companies (credit cards, fidelity cards, banks, ...) knows about me, the better I feel. My cash. My Privacy.
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
This restricts cashless to businesses where money is taken first, or where card preauth is used.
John_Chalisque
Discriminates against the poor!
Too poor to put $1 in a credit union account to get a debit card? What cash?
How about "too young"?
Children are excluded by definition from official definitions of the unbanked because they often are prohibited from holding a bank or credit union account in their own name. But children feel the same practical problems as the unbanked. Even 18-year-olds may not yet have a utility bill in their own name to establish their identity for purposes of "Know Your Customer" regulations that banks and credit unions are obligated to follow. This means a child would end up spending 10 percent extra on Visa gift card issuance fees in order to buy anything else.
3. Businesses will raise prices to cover higher costs.
They already take plastic.
Children who mow lawns or watch your younger children do not take plastic. Lawn care and babysitting are among the few jobs available to children under 16 under applicable child labor laws.
I've heard some people try to adopt a policy of just paying the balance off when it becomes due to avoid excess payments, but I tried this and found that this was not generally sustainable, because what I found was I could quickly lose track of how much I spent in a month and discover that my monthly total when the bill arrived was in excess of what I could actually afford to pay at once, forcing me to carry a balance.
Now that my CC is finally paid off completely, with this new system I've been using, I know immediately if I have the money to buy it or not because the money is either already in my bank account at that exact moment, or it isn't. A quick login onto my bank's website will tell me exactly how much liquidity I have at any given instant, and if the money isn't there for what I want, then I can't buy it, just as if I didn't have enough cash.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
[Neighbor kid] gets one of those Square card readers and plugs ut into his iPhone.
That won't work. Square's TOS states: "You represent and warrant to us that: (a) you are at least eighteen (18) years of age". This means the only Square thing a child can buy for an iPhone is a Final Fantasy game.
Another issue is how do I pay my neighbor kid to mow my lawn with a credit card?
Paypal?
That won't work. From the PayPal TOS: "For an individual to open a U.S. PayPal account and use the PayPal services, you must be a resident of the United States or one of its territories and at least 18 years old, or the age of majority in your state of residence."
Gift cards?
But how would a child make change for an unopened $50 gift card, or even quickly verify that a particular gift card contains the balance the buyer claims it to contain?
I won't play along with this privacy-invading, populace-controlling bullshit, and I don't recommend anyone else go along with it, either. Cash money == true freedom. What, where, and when you buy things is nobodys business but your own.
There's no incentive for a merchant do reduce payment options for their customers. Try again Visa.
Hear, hear. Well said.
It's unbelievable that large-L libertarians everywhere don't froth at the mouth incessantly over this ultra-flagrant abomination. Like, we could fix this now, without sitting on our Libertarian thumbs awaiting The Great Regime Change.
Here's another thing. Corporations are people. People have assholes. Q.E.D.
In Chinatown - I see CASH only signs everywhere.
Any respectable business hides their turnover lest the landlord increase the rent.
Visa would never sell that information - Nahh.
when they can't make cards work. What makes cards work for a business is two things:
1. Tacking on added value products/services. e.g. getting somebody to buy a $20 hdmi cable with their new TV. Folks are more likely to buy these things when they're not handing over cash.
2. Leveraging the fact that you're essentially giving out a loan with little to no risk. Yeah, the customer can dispute the charge, but most don't. The majority of credit card losses happen when the whole economy craps the bed and folks go bankrupt. If you're a business it's nice not having to deal with that. Let Visa clean up that mess and try to collect the money.
Credit Cards are mostly a raw deal for necessities. It's why you can't usually pay for a Car Loan, Mortgage or Rent with a card. We've already got a 'cashless' alternative. It's called ACH. My Car Loan auto drafts every month.
Basically, if you're a retail or service business complaining about taking cards you're doing it wrong.
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Never understood how apartment and rent can be required to be non-cash payment.
Legal tender only applies when you have a debt. A shop is perfectly free to decide not to sell something to you unless you pay in a form that they are willing to accept. However, a restaurant where you typically eat first and pay at the end, probably can't refuse (IANAL) to accept cash because at that point you have acquired a debt with them and they are required to accept legal tender in payment of debts.
Usually, rents are paid in advance so you are not paying off a debt but purchasing the right to live there in advance. Hence if the landlord does not want to accept your cash s/he is entitled to refuse to rent to you although I expect this could get more complicated when combined with tenants rights.
Cash is anonymous. Cash is private. You have to ask why Visa's so determined to wipe it out. Bad enough my search history bombards me with spam, I don't want my purchases to do the same. Amazon already does that and it's bad enough tio make me want to dump my Prime membership.
So as a small business owner I should send 3 %ish (depending on various factors like card type cost per swipe etc) of my money to some large corporation probably headquartered in Ireland or the cayman islands. FYI I am not scared to carry cash. Best way to keep $ in my community. Declaring war on visa!
Business just has to have the balls to raise their middle fingers to VISA. I've seen more than a few that are ATM and cash only.
That strategy doesn't hold up well with purchases increasingly taking place online rather than in bricks and mortar stores, though.
It's good that there are other options online -- PayPal being the 800lb gorilla, of course -- but often the same laws and regulations about consumer protections and fraud checks and so on wind up catching the alternative payment schemes anyway, and the same old problems rear their ugly heads again.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Can you use an CC at a casino with out the cash advance fee and with out paying 3% or more in fees?
Have you ever heard of this: https://usa.visa.com/pay-with-...
Canadians use cash for only 10% of consumer payments and that figure is falling — August 2014
Yeah, and 45% of all purchases were made using debit cards, for which the consumer receives no spiff (other than stiffing those shits over at VISA et al.). Only 25% by dollar value for the rapacious credit card industry at this happy moment in time.
More Canadians choosing credit cards, mobile payments over cash, study says — 3 February 2016
Now there's an article bought and paid for. Once upon a time, the Globe and Mail was a respectable rag. Et tu, Grey Lady?
As far as I can tell, the entire article avoids discussing dollar share (in favour of transaction share). What matters for assessing the 2% fee grab is dollar share.
Probably the credit card industry considers Canada's 65% share of plastic transactions conducted on debit (per 2014 data above) to be an unmitigated international catastrophe. They're certainly not going to curate press coverage to brag about this.
I mean, why shiv your neighbourhood grocer with the credit fee? Surely he'll just end up passing the overhead back to the customer. Your average meek Canadian would think the first thought for sure, and possibly continue on with the second thought (but not always).
Turns out, leaving a nickle for the other guy is not such a bad life philosophy after all.
Sadly, there will be a war in Canada against the use of debit cards by the assholes at VISA, but it will a far different war here than elsewhere. (VISA could start by awarding air miles that didn't constantly degenerate into a colossal screw-around. They sometimes even brazenly advertise their "new, improved, less screw-around air miles". But the cat comes back, and the slogan never gets old.)
We desperately need a modern cashless currency system that is non-centralized and does not require merchants to hand over a significant percentage of their revenue for practically no benefit simply in order to compete. That is extortion. Is Bitcoin the answer? Maybe. Or something like it, backed by a traditional currency. But what we're doing now simply cannot go on. Cash is wasteful. Printing money is expensive, bad for the environment, and just a pain for everyone involved. Using it—lugging it around with you and having to collect it from a cash point—sucks. There simply must be a better way...
I see websites all the time charge a 3% credit fee. Don't see anything about it being illegal.
Cash is useful. It doesn't compete with credit cards and the “war on cash” is really trollish whoever espouses it.
For really cheap things I always pay cash. Cup of coffee. Sandwich. Gum. A credit card transaction gets .50 cents for the transaction and then 3% of the sale. Why would I want to give VISA $.53 for my one dollar cup of coffee? This just made it cost 50% more for no benefit. That’s absurd. I realize every knothead with a VISA card is going to force my local store to charge $1.50 for $1.00 coffee because the store is not going to give a discount for cash. However if I have to pay an extra 50 cents, I’d rather the store have it than VISA.
I also always tip in cash. I assume they declare it, but if they can’t make ends meet this week and don’t declare it, well, its the one loophole the poor man gets and he can have it.
I also use cash for privacy. Some businesses like to take your details and use them for marketing or reselling. If I use cash, I don’t have to give my name or number or address no matter how many times they ask. Give people another payment method, and they can legitimately request ID and there goes my data.
Furthermore, I don’t like big corporations or the government using my purchases for any analysis or tracking (and they do). So, I like cash for any practical amount that is fairly low.
I don’t begrudge anyone worried about mugging or whatever. I use plastic online and for larger amounts. There are plenty of times a credit card makes prefect sense. Use each when necessary. Don’t declare war on cash. Declare it on hunger or something useful.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/commentisfree/2016/mar/21/fear-cashless-world-contactless
Who told you surcharges are illegal (assuming in the US)? I certainly know of no federal law about that. Perhaps your state has a law concerning it?
In Canada, a law was passed expressly allowing retailers to charge extra for credit card transaction. A lot of people don't realize that those premium credit cards with high rewards charge the retailers a lot more, upwards of 3%, nearly double the rate for "normal" credit cards. If retailers are unable to add a surcharge, then those premium card holders' rewards are really being paid for by everyone else through overall higher prices. It's quite a racket.
$10,000, and you can't take cash in the future? Less than $30 a day of cash sales gives more than their "award". Plus, you're going to be giving them that $10,000 in transaction fees and then some - especially with cards that will ding merchants for credit card "cash back" programs.
Most merchants aren't that stupid. They know the cost of doing business. Many also like giving discounts for cash.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I believe that you are absolutely incorrect about there being a _law_ about not surcharging CC usage.
This issue was very much on my radar a couple of decades ago. There was a class action lawsuit against the biggest CC player about this. There was a blog that followed it, and while they dumped the custom domain, it appears that the content from the blog is here: https://waytoohigh.wordpress.c...
What it actually was... there was a _contract_term_ from your credit card processing bank that stipulated that you could not surcharge for CC. Some got around it by the cash discount, but eventually enough did that that they caught on to it, and forbid it by contract. And this was essentially a contract of adhesion, and every processor carried through the same restrictive terms. Didn't like the terms? Don't accept any of the big [four] CCs.
I was working at a very small retail merchant during that period, not even 'mom and pop', just 'pop'; and was very attuned to what it cost us. I remember seeing cease and desist letters from the CC company over our policy of not allowing CC payments for transactions Since the conclusion of the law suit, I've observed many more merchants declaring either a minimum transaction for a CC, or a processing fee on transactions under a threshold amount.
The whores get mad when the sluts give it away for free.
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
And on top of that if the charge is ruled good the business is charged a $25.00 Fee to cover the paper work.
Right now, Visa, Mastercard, Discover and Amex all compete users. From a consumer's standpoint, processing fees can never be too low, but rest assured they'd be even higher if it weren't for the forementioned competition.
If credit cards were nationalized, watch costs go through the roof. Not only would all competition disappear; any incentive to operate efficiently would disappear. A nationalized credit card system would be the SLS of credit card systems. (Falcon Heavy "can can get more into space than the SLS for a fraction of the cost.")
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
..continue spreading anywhere and everywhere, bump up transaction fees, then offer to lower them slightly in exchange for itemized receipt information.
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
That is a yes. I was recently at the hard rock casino in Tampa and I saw signs that there were no fees or pin required to cash advance at their ATM. Don't know how that works, they must be running it though as a regular purchase. I am not sure if it gives you actual cash, or one of those bard coded slips that you normally get out of a slot when you cash out. I guess it is a purchase anyways. If you're that desperate you're probably going to loose it all to the house anyways. I'm guessing they've got some way to track that credit card transaction though the slips that come out of their slots. Otherwise you could just walk into the casino get a free cash advance, launder it though a play at a slot then go cash it out and leave for less than you would pay for a normal cash advance.
Grow a pair and do something more activist, such as:
1) Actively boycott companies that don't care about your freedom and privacy.
2) Write your congressmen / senators.
3) Stop calling your speech words of wisdom when you advocate giving up and surrendering what little we have left.
> Recipients of the award will then be required to use the lump sum to upgrade their point-of-sale systems so they are completely cashless
As a business owner who doesn't want to piss off a lot of customers, you keep two separate POS systems that don't talk to each other and aren't even aware of each other's presence: The new one that doesn't accept cash, that Visa is trying to push on you, and you keep using the system you already have, which Visa can't prove you haven't retired. Win-win, and you get their $10K.
Not only is it physically "cashless", it has no geographic boundaries.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
This is the problem with /.'s moderation system - you write a long screed based on a bullshit premise and get modded to 5.
There is not law such as you've described. They don't need a law. It's part of the merchant agreement. But it gets better. In the US merchants may specifically add a surcharge to card transactions due to a settlement with the card industry:
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/...
So, basically, you're not only wrong, you are the exact opposite of true.
Do you have ESP?
But . . . if Government outlaws cash . . . the United States Drug War would end . . .
it's not illegal to have a surcharge. It may or may not be against whatever agreements you have. There's still pending litigation on that, but there's no law.
The fees are to make money. They're a business after all. But I think you underestimate the value credit cards bring. They're a super low cost way to offer financing with little or no risk to your business beyond the occasional disputed transaction (and there actually _is_ a law about that). They make it much, much easier to tack on added value services since you're not feeling the pain of handing over every cash dollar. And let's not forget, cash costs money to handle too. You've got to count it, make sure it doesn't grow legs. You've got to track it and haul it to the bank. And the more of it you have on hand the more security you need. Next time somebody picks up the cash from a grocery store look at the weapons their carrying and how much armor plating is on their truck.
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VISA employed shill detected! You can't comment enough on these threads. Very passionate subject matter lol.
>[Visa] launching a "cashless challenge" which would see 50 U.S. businesses receive $10,000 each to help them convert to a cashless payment model."
That should absolutely be illegal. This is of ZERO benefit to anyone but the greedy card companies and could terribly hurt anyone who cares about freedom or privacy. It could also be a total DISASTER in cases of emergency or system failures.
NO WAY
Ten thousand would be pocket lint for any business larger than a lemonade stand. Less than a week's revenue.
War on cash, war on drugs, war on [insert diatribe here], etc. What about "war on common sense" like one of you slashdotters post as your tagline? How about a peace dividend (i.e. net revenue gain)?
mfwright@batnet.com
Fraud can and often is paid for by the banks. It's easier for the big credit card companies to pull money out of the banks than out of the small business owners. This depends upon the contract between the banks and the credit card companies (remember, there are usually four parties involved in each credit card transaction).
If the merchants have to pick up the tab here they are often put out of business (you get a black mark and you won't be able to find other credit card processing services and have to go cash only which makes it very hard to stay in business). If the merchant is being careful doing things right then it's bad business for the credit card company to demand 100% of reimbursemen, because you lose a good customer.
That costs you $300/year for as long as you have it. Not to mention being hard to switch away.
You have to understand that Americans have been trained to blame the government for everything. That holds true even in cases where it's the absence of government intervention that leads to the negative outcome, like in this case.
Fuck you, fish tits.
Single-zero roulette wheel low bet on green to cover the red / black bet and 50/50 on red and black so all that you will lose use is the green bet just play a few times to get put in the system and then cash out. Easy to do auto wheel roulette takes the slot tickets if all you have is the double zero then you need to bet on both or dual green bet And then just rake in he cash back on your CC + slot points for comps.
...open the package in front of the cashier. Voila, you're now in "debt". They have to take cash now.
one of those bard coded slips
Ah. 'Tis naught but a comedy of errors.
Have gnu, will travel.
I goto my bank and withdraw $300 USD per week to buy groceries or beer or gasoline. Web purchases are on a credit card. Screw VISA but it's difficult to live without it.
A first gen version of digital cash wallets straight out of scifi should be possible. You know, touch a wallet-like device to another one after dialing the amount, to transfer credits. And how does a starship pay for fuel at a space station? A similar cash transaction but over a network.
With standardized open source protocols, recognition by at least one government and any number of banks, and like cash not being tracked or taxed every transaction. A credit card or phone sized format could be doable for a standalone wallet.
> This is the problem with /.'s moderation system - you write a long screed based on a bullshit premise and get modded to 5.
I've noticed more and more that people upvote angry or outraged comments regardless of content. I guess noone sensible is participating in meta-moderation these days.
#ohwell
If a restaurant don't want my cash, I'll just go somewhere else.
War on Cash? And I thought Bitcoin was bad. Anywhoo...
1) When will the other banks and Congress fall in line with Visa? And...
2) Does this make 'the Mark' inevitable? Chip or tattoo, another card?
We're almost quarter of the way through the 21st now. How much longer do we have?
Do some research you halfwit.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'