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Tech Leaders Speak Out Against Trump Ban on Transgender Troops (axios.com)
Technology executives, including Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and Google CEO Sundar Pichai took to social media to voice their displeasure over President Donald Trump's latest stance on transgendered people in the military.
"I am grateful to the transgender members of the military for their service," Google CEO Sundar Pichai said.
Apple CEO Tim Cook said, "We are indebted to all who serve. Discrimination against anyone holds everyone back."
Brad Smith, Microsoft President and Chief Legal Officer said, "We honor and respect all who serve, including the transgender members of our military."
Salesforce said it "believes in equality for all. We support and thank all U.S. service members, including transgender Americans."
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg said, "Everyone should be able to serve their country -- no matter who they are."
Veteran entrepreneur Max Levchin urged support for transgender people across party lines. "Trans kids, soldiers etc need our support today and to know they are valued & respected regardless of politics. Let us not be divided."
Uber told news outlet Axios, "We owe the deepest debt of gratitude to all those who volunteer to serve in the US Armed Forces and defend our values. These patriotic Americans deserve to be honored and respected, not turned away because of who they are."
Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey said, "Discrimination in any form is wrong for all of us."
"I am grateful to the transgender members of the military for their service," Google CEO Sundar Pichai said.
Apple CEO Tim Cook said, "We are indebted to all who serve. Discrimination against anyone holds everyone back."
Brad Smith, Microsoft President and Chief Legal Officer said, "We honor and respect all who serve, including the transgender members of our military."
Salesforce said it "believes in equality for all. We support and thank all U.S. service members, including transgender Americans."
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg said, "Everyone should be able to serve their country -- no matter who they are."
Veteran entrepreneur Max Levchin urged support for transgender people across party lines. "Trans kids, soldiers etc need our support today and to know they are valued & respected regardless of politics. Let us not be divided."
Uber told news outlet Axios, "We owe the deepest debt of gratitude to all those who volunteer to serve in the US Armed Forces and defend our values. These patriotic Americans deserve to be honored and respected, not turned away because of who they are."
Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey said, "Discrimination in any form is wrong for all of us."
The policy this is reversing has only existed about a year. Why are people acting like there was a trans brigade charging the shores of Normandy?
I think this may be the most irrelevant /. submission ever.
One of the great thing about our country is that they are allowed to voice their opinion, whether you care to hear it or not. Sorry, don't like it? Leave.
You say discrimination is wrong yet you actively censor things you don't like. Also don't you have a couple of sex discrimination lawsuit up against you?
...of one of those companies.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ~ Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Make it about what mega-rich corporate lords say about it.
All that stuff he said last fall about LGBT rights was just him being "all things to all people", which he might've even stuck with if everything had gone well.
But nothing has gone well. Now he needs his base to back him, especially if he fires Sessions and Mueller.
It'd be be a good idea if the more obnoxious people (Zuckerberg, Trump, et al) would stay out of the conversation so the rest of us could focus on the objective facts without having the sickening feeling that we have to agree with one of them. I'm sure they won't shut up but maybe we could agree not to report on what they say?
Strategic PR are not opinions. And yeah, hearing these guys blather about crap that has nothing to do with them does make me less inclined to use whatever they're selling.
This has confused me... Isn't transgender just people who identify as the opposite gender but don't have surgery performed?
Whereas transexual requires some sort of bodily change?
Or is this just a case of society becoming scared of using the word "sexual" and saying gender?
Tech leaders, you can swiftly fuck off. Your comments here are about as relevant as your opinions on the banana trade. Only that bastion of hell you reside in, silly valley, that has its dark claim on your soul speaks like this.
One of the great thing about our country is that they are allowed to voice their opinion, whether you care to hear it or not.
Pot
Sorry, don't like it? Leave.
Kettle
In debates about Christianity, there are two groups: those looking for answers, and those looking to just ask questions.
A direct result of this failed bill to forbid money from being spent by the military’s health care system for medical treatment related to gender transition.
People with mental illness were already prevented from joining the military before this so this is really no change. A group with a 40 percent suicide rate and people expect us to put guns in their hands? I can see post transition and post operation trans participating but while make a transition is just too crazy. Also in my life 99% of every trans person I have met is or was addicted to drugs.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ~ Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Christ, I only modded him down. No need to respond with death threats.
or other things that actually do matter.
So the US military will cease to be the target of more progressive social experiments for a few years. End of the world stuff right there; the virtuepocalypse is upon us!
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Looks like a snowflake just got triggered.
When a major policy change is announced, Silicon Valley has to prove their devotion.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Agree. Why should tech CEO's or celebrities be a better source of general political ideas than Joe Sixpack? Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one. If they comment on technology as it intersects politics, then they can be considered subject matter experts; granted a biased one, but at least it would directly involve their field.
If military generals commented on this topic, it would be newsworthy because they have experience with military crew interaction. But if the military generals commented on say the iPhone's UI, their opinion is no more valid than Joe Sixpack's. (PS, yes, the Orange Man is a jerk.)
Table-ized A.I.
If that's the case, then why do we always see left-wingers resorting to censorship ("moderation") here, at reddit, and at so many other online discussion forums? Left-wingers only support freedom of speech when you're saying what they want to hear. Otherwise they want to silence you. We don't see this hatred of free speech from non-left-wingers.
Like old Kuckerberger has any idea what it would be like to share a foxhole with someone that is 22 X more likely to commit suicide than the general population.
So what else is new? Fags running faggy un-American companies support fruits, fairies, and fags.
We all will have a good laugh in a couple years when the Slashdot headline reads 'Tech Leaders Die of AIDS". Or better yet "Slashdot Editors Die of AIDS".
Each one of these boiz needs to be taken out back for a good "talkin' to".
I'm getting more and more suspicious these are just distractors... Keep an eye out for quietly enacted legislation in the coming week under the cover of the media frenzy.
This has NOTHING to do with any type of policy other than hatred. Everyone needs to stand up to the clueless, out of touch, orange douchbag currently "elected" as "President". He's leading a vocal minority of the population and it's surely not leading the nation or anything else. This guy needs to get impeached immediately. He has ZERO qualifications to be President or well do any thing else really.
Trump is Trash and so are the people who support him
wait until $trump_decision != '';
foreach $personality ( @leftwing )
{
send_to_twitter( $personality . " is outraged at Trump for " . $trump_decision );
}
... praising other mentally ill people. This is "news that matter"?
What's passive aggressive. This is a major point of contention.
I don't give a rat's a$$ about who one marries, who one f**ks, how one dresses. Do what you want.
But the military cares about suicide rates. It's a problem. Add to that the well document FACT that transgendered people commit suicide at a far greater rate than the average person (whether or not they have had surgery) and they (the military) have a good reason to be concerned.
Whether they should or should not prevent transgendered people in the military is another issue. It is not, however, a bullsh!t consideration.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Why do I care what CEOs and Tech managers think? We need to stop going to these people for their opinions on politics. Google, Microsoft, Uber, Apple...they should all stick to what they do best, tech.
They've spent years and years in the military!
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I am a Vet and a SGT. They already serve. They are in the service and are part of the human race. Ignorance is not bliss. Trumps myopic perspective ignorant at best and bigoted at worst.
Irony, you fuckstain. Do you understand it motherbuttload?
wait, let's get this straight because I've been struggling with this and trying to get the terms right so I don't offend anyone for calling them gay when they're really lesbian or transexual. Or not calling them a transvestite when they are really transexual but not transgender.
Transgender = phsyically one thing but identify as another.
Transexual = spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to physically change because you cannot accept yourself the way you were born.
Now, I have seen transgender women who identify as men and prefer to sleep with men - I guess they're a straight guy trapped in a woman's body or something.
I for one am transgender. I am a woman trapped in a man's body but I am a butch lesbian. I won't go for surgery because I really enjoy the dick and rug munching can be tiring on the tongue.
F-35 program costing way too much money: President Orangeface McSmallhands says he'll go to Boeing and get a better deal
Trans people in the military costing a maximum of $8 million per year: "Oh no, that's too expensive, we can't do that"
Who manage to avoid paying as much in tax as possible are now going to tell us how government should be run?
Get out your checkbooks fellas and start paying up for the military sex changes. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.
Seriously.
As someone who spent seven years in active service, and trained many soldiers in Canada, worrying about someone's sexual orientation or whatever was dead last on my concerns. As in never spent a moment thinking about it, or caring about it.
Are we sure he's sane?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Or... he has some superbad news he needs to distract from (1), ergo... the CrazyTweet defence.
(1) They have 20 hours to pass a black-box healthcare bill by Thursday
Well, I suspect that group oversees a disproportionate part of your economy.
And, seriously, you're of the belief that the average person in the population is as capable as the average individual running large entities? My problem is that Joe Sixpack is a moron.
Okay. Let's go by what our top military commanders besides Trump say... ... Wait? All of them?
That's just like, your opinion, man.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
But the military cares about suicide rates. It's a problem. Add to that the well document FACT that transgendered people commit suicide at a far greater rate than the average person (whether or not they have had surgery) and they (the military) have a good reason to be concerned.
Why them particularly? And do you have a citation that says that the suicide rate and/or other health outcomes are equal or worse for transgender persons in the military as opposed to the general population?
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
They don't want your arrogant bigot money anyway
like totally like man like
I also like, "I may not agree with the religious message on your bumper sticker. But I will defend your right to stick it."
This space unintentionally left blank.
Agree. Why should tech CEO's or celebrities be a better source of general political ideas than Joe Sixpack? Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one.
Because these particular assholes have agendas and PR images. Everything they do publicly is to bolster their PR image and further their agendas.
Their agendas include gaining wealth and gaining power, not helping the common man. In fact, screwing the common man is a common tactic.
More proof that technology != biology in competency.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
You can use quotation marks all you want. He was elected. He is the current President of the United States of America.
You don't have to like it, but lets face i t- the "vocal minority" has been dictating the nation's policy and direction for decades.
No that's projecting your issues not the military's it has nothing to do with hatred.
per my other post:
As a former Army combat grunt It has nothing to do with "mental illnesses" there's plenty of non-sexual problems with people on the front line it's more about not needing the SJW bullshit that comes along with it.
I'm not going to treat you any differently than the rest of the assholes getting shot at with me and nearly all of the B & T'ers I've meet can't help but push there issues at everyone around them.
Hell my best friend at the time was gay but he didn't advertise or act any differently when the uniform was on. There's allot of that in the US military it's the ones that can't act like a normal soldier that has real problems.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe... perhaps... it is ostracizing crap like this that leads transgender people to commit suicide?
Can't answer those, you have an opinion, and no one cares, because if you haven't served, you don't get to have any input on this issue. When your life is on the line, and your buddies lives on the line, do you really want someone pumped full or hormones their body isn't used to, and wouldn't naturally have in the most stressful environments on the planet? Outside of that its an undue burden to require the military to pay for Millions of dollars of treatment to convert their bodies. Don't block people from modding their bodies, but don't require the US Government to pay for it either, they waste enough money on their own without a new way to spend tons of money.
So is there any evidence that the suicide rate among the transgendered is significantly different than other enlisted? Military suicides are massive in the US armed forces, and that was true before we started allowing openly transgendered people to join the military.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
just to be the devils advocate here, should I be able to join the military? I am 57 years old
(referring to the quote, "Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey said, "Discrimination in any form is wrong for all of us.")
thoughts?
Wooooooosh
Strategic PR
In this case, "Virtue Signaling"
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I get tactical combat advantage in that situation by self-identifying as an actual fox.
What DNA says about it be damned.
This has NOTHING to do with any type of policy other than hatred. Everyone needs to stand up to the clueless, out of touch, orange douchbag
I bet the irony of this message is completely lost on the author.
The Military limits and even abrogates many rights simply due to the nature and mission of the organization.
We can't have people or missions endangered because of some SJW position.
The Generals have declared that is a danger.
The military doesn't pay for breast implants, they shouldn't pay for trans surgery. If they want to argue that they have to because it's a medical condition, then discharge them. People are discharged due to medical conditions all the time.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Suicide rate for trans is around 40%. Before or after surgery.
Clearly the desire to be what you not is a symptom of something and not the something itself.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
The rate remains the same regardless of how supportive their environment is.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Trans suicide rates are between 40-50% https://williamsinstitute.law.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p...
How many of them have actually carried a weapon in battle for the US?
The bigger issue is not what the Trans thinks of themselves, it is not making the Army pay for the surgeries.
If you ban them, then you don't pay for the surgery.
Wooooooooosh
The normal rate of suicide in the military is no where near the 40% suffered by Trans people.
See Train0987's post above for citations.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Part of the context is that Zuckerberg will run for president in the next election.
Discrimination against anyone holds everyone back
How many 5 year olds are allowed to enlist? 92 year olds? This sounds like age discrimination
What about paraplegics and quadriplegics? More discrimination.
Diabetics will almost never be accepted, and in very rare cases a person who becomes diabetic may be able to get a waiver to stay in, but the vast majority of the time it's an automatic discharge.
A man missing one or both testicles due to a congenital disorder will also be disqualified. Hell, there have been people who were disqualified for their testicles being too large.
I really don't care what people want to identify as or what their sexual preferences are. But there are simply some cases where these things matter. If a transgender individual can't get their hormone medication, how is that going to affect their emotions or ability to do their job? What if they get captured by an enemy? What about being deployed in a country that has the death penalty for being transgender? This is the military, not a tech company in Silicon Valley. Hell, the tech industry seems to have difficulty with how they treat women. Perhaps they should work on that since women are around 50% of the population.
I don't know what the solution is, but a bunch of billionaires who never served in the military, who can't lead the men in their company to treat women as equals really don't' have an opinion that the military should worry about.
Fuck all discrimination except age discrimination, right Google??
with the previous (several weeks ago) news announcing a new policy to protect women in uniform, with guns, from words and pictures, from men.
If there's one thing I like about this country, we'll say or do anything to appease everyone, except men.
I don't want someone in uniform who will be using a rifle to defend this country to require protection from a man with a camera.
captcha: shipmate
You could have said 1 year after the end of the segregation/miscegenation laws the same thing. Length of existence of a policy is not a good argument for or against or for its validity. The only valid argument I see are : 1) are the TG folk mentally fit enough ? 2) are the TG folk physically fit enough. (2) is answered already by exam at the start and (1) should be answered with time and possibly exams, or study on TG psychology/psychiatry. But nothing about time a policy existed makes for a valid argument.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I am speaking out against Tech companies lack of good documentation on how to use their shit!
We all have a responsibility to call our President when he's doing something awful.
Which is all the time.
It will never end. In your face. Screamed. Spit. In your eyes. In your face. Day and night. You will be reminded of your terrible mistake.
You will never have peace until he is gone.
Get used to it.
HEY YOU! With the facts! Stop that! This is slashdot, and a post that is bashing trump, we are allowed to make up anything we want and get +17 Insightful for it!!
--Highdude702 (don't want to undo mods)
Trump is desperate to distract everyone from the Russia investigation, so he needs to throw out something fresh and tasty for the media to chew on
Not a one of those "tech leaders" has ever served in the military so they have no bases on which to state their option on the subject.
Shut the fuck up, Donny.
I see... Your opinion is that others shouldn't express their opinions. So why did you bother expressing yours again?
You know, not banning, blaming, and demonizing them probably goes a long way to fixing shit like that.
What you describe is a symptom of how these people are treated.
You're an idiot.
I just happened to know a (conservative republican!!!) woman who was VFW Women's Auxillary, only because the men were douchebags about letting women in the regular VFW. She was an active duty female personnel member during WW2, I don't remember what branch, but she had full veteran benefits and everything.
The sexism that continued to go on after the war and in the years since, despite the number of female military personnel who climbed up the ranks is pretty terrible.
They might not win in a stand up fight against a man, but this is America, the primary thing we learned from the revolutionary war is you don't fight fair against a stronger opponent. Unfortunately it seems we unlearn it a bit more with every year as we become a form of establishment exactly like what we were supposedly rebelling against (although, in fairness, we more or less have since giving up on the Confederation and becoming the Union in... 1782?)
Tech execs, feel free to stay in your comfy, air-conditioned offices and to stfu when it comes to battlefield decisions.
And, seriously, you're of the belief that the average person in the population is as capable as the average individual running large entities?
Yes. Virtually anyone can tell people to do what they aren't able to do themselves, with the full measure of dartboard accuracy tech CEO's accomplish, given a few million in VC.
My problem is that Joe Sixpack is a moron.
Your problem is that actually attaining your self-appointed elite status requires more than dumbass psychological projections.
When tech leaders start running the military they can form policy on what makes a good military.
Until then, their statements are pointless.
Military readiness has no room for SJW nonsense, which is undermining everything it touches.
And I'm happy for you that you have no idea why that might be, but I did ask for some specific citations, not the first vaguely applicable paper to hand.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
If the military cared so much about suicide rates you'd think they would do a lot more to help all those veterans committing suicide, who are homeless, can't find jobs, or get medical care. Hell, we just had a veteran here die because he was so depressed from lack of medical care and couldn't even afford food that he used what he said was a bomb and took hostages in a bank.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.
See Train0987's post above for citations.
Okay, I found the post and well... I'm just starting to dig into the second citation and it is fucking garbage. I had to look at that one because the first site never actually responds. Hmm, with the power of google I found it on scribd. I'll look at that in a minute, but let's talk about the second paper first. Its most relevant sources do not exist. Not just a simple 404, I googled for the ones which they claim directly support the headline and there's nothing, nada, zip and zilch. And the other papers which they claim generally support their claim... don't support their claim. It is a garbage citation and we can safely wipe our asses with it.
The first citation is of generally higher quality, even though the study it is based upon includes only about 6,500 valid respondents when there are about 1.5 million transgendered people in the USA, and only 75% of those were transgendered people (the rest were other people who describe their gender in complex terms.) Further, it counts suicide attempts, not suicides. The study does not say what you guys want it to say. In particular, it says that the suicide rate among trans respondents was only slightly higher than the rest of the respondents in the study. If you're not going to ban gays from the military, there's no real justification for banning the transgendered.
Whoops, I actually read the citations! Guess I wasn't supposed to do that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The only issue I have with trans in the military is the cost of care. If you have had a change surgery the followup medical is something the tax payers should not foot the bill for. Even in the public sector we should not be paying for an "Elective" surgery and its after care. Do you want to pay for a breast enhancement or any other plastic surgeries out of your taxes or health care? Now if you join before you have had any surgeries than have at it but don't expect the general population to pay for something that is a nice to have and not a life threatening issue. My two cents and free to anyone that cares to listen to "Free Speech".
We can't have people or missions endangered because of some SJW position.
That's exactly what you said before the Geneva Conventions were ratified, right?
The fact is, those "SJW positions" are the only reason the military isn't a bunch of parasitical things, whether you want to admit it or not.
And the military pays enough for STD treatments that I'd suggest you deal with that expense before whining over this one?
So you think that just because they are incompetent suicides, that the attempt doesn't count.
The rate is clearly stated to be around 40% and it clearly states that it remains the same regardless of surgery or how supportive their environment is.
Your pedantic objections are unfounded, unsupported and clearly just you saying, "Nuh Uh!"
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Military generals have commented on this topic. They hated being pawns of Obama's social agenda and didn't like the idea of being forced to have mentally ill soldiers serve in order to satisfy some stupid concept of political correctness. It's been shown time and time again that mixed gender forces are less effective than all-male forces.
But that's not politically correct, so the military is forced to accept being less than they could be in order to satisfy some left-wing agenda. I doubt they're going to say it explicitly, but most generals are thrilled with Trump letting them off the hook for Obama's terrible, terrible decision.
if that happens, I guess trump will have an 8 year term.
What an ill chosen homily. Everybody does not have an arsehole. Think about it.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
is to free the fed govt from liability for paying for the elective transformation process for people with dysmorphia
They're guessing on the "why" part. Hard to ask a dead person why they killed themselves. My guess is the guy woke up after surgery and realized that instead of magically becoming a women he's actually still a dude that just cut his dick off.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The edge is off the charts.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
Trans suicide rates are between 40-50%
Nope.. You'd think people would stop peddling this crap, but apparently not.
Back in the bad old days being transsexual was a medical matter to be treated. Once you were done you got on with your life as a man or a woman.
Now being trans is trendy. It's political. It's self-expression. Endless whining about privilege and pronouns.
Old-school folks (like yours truly) quietly get on with our lives and have few issues in life or anywhere else. I've done well and would probably have done fine in the military. Trans-trender snowflakes, on the other hand...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
^exactly, this is so obvious.
We are going about this all wrong! We worry about transgender recruits, but isn't this a missed opportunity?
We should be recruiting transloyalty people! Are they on our side? Are they working for the enemy? Are they working both sides against the middle? Are they double-agents, triple agents, quadruple agents!?
We throw them into battle and who knows how it all plays out? Our enemies are baffled! Our leaders are confused! A column of troops marches towards the front and maybe they fight, maybe they defect! Maybe they sit down and play Texas Hold 'Em! Anything is possible!!
Sure, give them guns, but do we give them ammo? Live rounds? Training rounds? Flags that say "Bang!"?
You thought you knew Reality TV, but this could make Realer Than Real TV!!
So you think that just because they are incompetent suicides, that the attempt doesn't count.
That's not even vaguely close to what I said, and if that's the only interpretation of my comment that you can imagine as valid, then you're being a disingenuous douchenozzle and there's no point in talking to you any further.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Same argument was made about gay people serving. Turned out not to be an issue.
The US military spends 10x as much on Viagra as it does on gender reassignment.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You really have never been in the field, have you?
The only time anyone cares about which restroom is which is when you're in some comfy place that isn't in the field.
It's not high school, junior.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
If it gets in their way of winning, then it makes sense to ban. Plain and simple.
So how much support do you think they will get from a bunch of Jar Head grunts?
Trump has not been doing well on the current political fronts (hilariously poor speeches, Russia collusion), so it's a good call for him to shift discussion. To be clear, I think the Russia stuff is mostly a matter of stupidity/greed (with a healthy dose of anachronistic RED SCARE) rather than high treason or something, but nonetheless these stories are not going in Trump's favor (and his previous attempts at handling/distraction have been super feeble, eg. Clinton has Russia ties too!) ..so it's a good idea for him to shift the discussion to a more traditional right-left battlefield: a moral panic. Here, his part is much simpler to play: "oh no, the ~new thing~ is going to destroy the foundation of our society/military/families" - and this particular subject is great because the left will respond predictably in a way that will alienate around half the country. From Trump's perspective, much better to focus on a polarizing issue where he has 45% support and a clear game plan, than let focus stay on his bumbling kids and their stupid Russian entanglements.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Have some Spam-flavored Macadamia Nuts, Teriyaki Spam and Hot & Spicy Spam for your whine.
That would make me kill myself also. So I cant say I don't agree with them..
Because they apparently have evaluated enough to know its not safe for the rest of the troops to let them join, ever think of that? I mean hell they probably have 200 years or so of experience..
--Highdude702
"The Generals have declared that is a danger."
The generals have very much NOT declared that it a danger.
The study from 2016 said it was no problem. The current study is not complete yet.
Meanwhile, the military is prohibited from selecting who it sees fit.
Yes because trying to cure and prevent STD's is the exact same as saying "I dont like being a man, please chop my dick off and turn it into a vagina please! and i so super promise that i will fight extra hard for you!"
Have some Haloperidol with your talk therapy.
None of these Tech leaders of the companies served a day in the military. It's bunk. I am taking Elon Musk's position and calling their understanding "limited".
OVER THE LINE!
Add to that the well document FACT that transgendered people commit suicide at a far greater rate than the average person ...
Comparing against "average person" (assuming whole population either including or excluding transgender people) is in absolutely no way a valid comparison. In this case men in age military service versus transgender of same age should be compared (ignoring biases introduced by all men versus those that join the military, etc).
According to CDC suicide for men all ages is "just" 2.5% while for ages 15-34 is between 16-20%. And suicide rates for men are much higher than for women. So "average person" rates are extremely misleading.
When you are sure of something, you probably are wrong (search for "Unskilled and Unaware of It").
I don't know about the tech elites but I for one really want the best and brightest fighting for my freedoms.
The tech elites seem to only want to take my freedoms and privacy.
The first citation is of generally higher quality, even though the study it is based upon includes only about 6,500 valid respondents when there are about 1.5 million transgendered people in the USA
It's hard to discern your point here -- are you suggesting that kind of sample size is way outside the norm for a study like this, and that it therefore may have significantly skewed the results? This actually seems like a fairly healthy sample size, and the p-values throughout the study reflect that.
Further, it counts suicide attempts, not suicides.
Again, your point is unclear. You can't possibly be saying that we shouldn't pay attention to a massively disproportionate rate of suicide attempts simply because some of them weren't successful.
The study does not say what you guys want it to say.
Whether or not anybody "wants it to," here's what the study actually says (emphasis mine):
The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality , is 41 percent, which vastly exceeds the 4.6 percent of the overall U.S. population who report a lifetime suicide attempt , and is also higher than the 10-20 percent of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults who report ever attempting suicide.
Fuck me with an unfinished plank sideways, is that an actual thing?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I have been treated like shit by a lot of people, and I never wanted to kill myself.. That kind of sounds like some sort of mental issue. and apparently incurable.
Don't forget about the medical and time costs of hormone treatments. They don't have time for that. You think your biologically female girlfriend gets hormonal? Jesus.....It really comes down to expense vs usefulness. It's just not worth it and since most of the military comes from the South, you have enough people uncomfortable in their current situation as it is, why add more? Look at it this way, congratulations, you won't be drafted.
have some Russian fish dick
Rascist bastard.
In your case it was justified.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
No, no, no. Transgender is a medical issue. 100% of all service people must be combat ready and physically and mentally optimum. There is no such thing as a non combat ready member of the armed forces. Someone who is reliant on drugs for there mental and physical wellbeing is not combat ready and must be discharged or never enlisted.
The army is not a feel good place. I do not anyone who is not 100% capable to serve alongside me in a combat zone. And again, everyone in the military must be combat ready. The is no such thing as a partial warrior. This is real life, not Starbucks or your office.
No. Reality check. Transgender is a medical issue with dependence on drugs. Drug dependence does not go well with combat readiness. And before you start whining about non combat ready roles in the military, there is no such thing. 100% of the service people are ready for combat theater deployment. You don't get to stay home because you have a combat ready weakness. That is not what the military is.
You're so full of shit. Post-surgery suicide rates are close to the general population. Also, Trump is an idiot - there are already 2,500 transsexuals serving in the military, and 1,500 in the reserves, and it hasn't had a negative impact. He's spouting nonsense to take take the heat off of "the Russia thing", Sessions, and the failure of the senate to repeal Obamacare outright, with 9 Republicans joining the Democrats.
He's a lame duck.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Money is money. The military has a problem with STDs that far exceeds the costs of transsexual therapy. Same with drug abuse, infections and exposure to carcinogens.
If you're going to expect me to pay for a military, even allow one, you're going to find I don't just hand over my wallet without some requirements.
While I wouldn't go so far as to call them phonies, it's rather ridiculous to ask the CEO of a large company for his thoughts on any such policy. They are not going to provide their personal view, but rather the line that their position, board, and shareholders expect them to. In fact, this is the reason, other than the CEO, most companies and politicians have communications teams to speak on their behalf, to make sure they don't say anything out of line (regardless of what they think).
Some people may have the courage to challenge orthodoxy, but a CEO almost surely won't.
The " U.S. National Transgender Discrimination Survey " is a piece of shit, with poor methodology, huge selection bias, and they even admit that because the survey only had a budget of $3,000, they couldn't get a representative sample.
Any study based on that is doubly a piece of shit.
Anyone stupid enough to cite it is triply a piece of shit.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
+5 Insightful, really?
/. was a place where facts and nuance too precedence over bias and politics. Sadly, this place has changed.
The Generals have declared that is a danger.
Is there data to back this up or could it be just the bigoted opinion of a few jerks? The same things were said about blacks, gays, and women.
The military doesn't pay for breast implants, they shouldn't pay for trans surgery.
If paying for trans surgery was the issue then POTUS could have ended the military's policy of covering that procedure. There are about 15,000 trans people in the US military. If ALL of them had surgery (which they won't) at 100k a pop it would amount to 1.5 billion which is 0.1% of the cost of the F-35 program. This isn't about cost or "unit cohesion", this is about bigotry - just like it was for blacks, gays, and women.
I've always appreciated that
So how much support do you think they will get from a bunch of Jar Head grunts?
Nowadays? Plenty, because everyone knows someone who is trans, or knows someone who knows someone who is. No need to go through 6 degrees of separation a la Kevin Bacon.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
There are already 2,500 trans troops in the services, and 1,500 in the reserves. This is just Trump throwing shit at the wall to distract from his failures.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Last year, then defence secretary Ash Carter cited a study by the RAND Corporation think-tank that said there were about 2,500 active-duty service members and 1,500 service members who were transgender.
Where were the riots, the mutinies, the refusals of people to work alongside them? Oh, right - they didn't happen.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
That Trump's ban on transgendered people in the military is a blessing for pacifists! They will only need to declare being transgendered (most possibly, pre-op) to avoid draft. How would the army verify that you are not transgender?
One of the great thing about our country is that they are allowed to voice their opinion
Yeah, tell that to Trump supporters in Portland. These days, being a Republican in a blue state can cost your your job, your friends, your property, your personal safety, even your life if you're not careful. It's part of what has driven me and many others away from the modern left.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I can't stand Trump, think he's already the worst President in our history, but I have no problems with this decision. I'm an army brat, I was in ROTC, went to basic, had all the training to be a military officer (just never signed up), and I know 1st hand and personally of people being either kicked out or prohibited from joining for all kinds of medical issues, some of them ancient history, some of their mildly debilitation. The idea that someone is going to physically alter their body in extremely intrusive fashion that requires all kinds of lifetime medical and even surgical regimens to maintain them and the military is supposed to 1.) pay for it 2.) make concessions for the other commitments to that surgery; is a real head scratcher.
My only problem is Trump obviously did it as another one of his twitter shiny bauble, public debate distractions.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Apparently you don't do reasoning. Lemme help. A forty percent suicide rate in the trans community translates to a much greater suicide rate than anyone else regardless of where they are. This includes in the military.
To protect the USA by being able to kill people and break things anywhere on demand as quickly and efficiently as possible... Not to be some social or environmental experiment.
This whole LGBT* being allowed in the military debate looks more like a social experiment than being about the military's primary mission to me. It's about as pointless as using renewable "green" fuel to power a long range bomber on a thermal Nuclear strike. You are really concerned about CO2 emissions when you are dropping a nuclear bomb?
IF some idea or policy doesn't enhance the military's ability to kill people and break things, then it's a bad idea or policy for the military. There should be no arguments about the military that is not about how to fulfill it's purpose with the most efficient, most accurate and quickest way possible, with perhaps a thought about if we can actually afford to do without it based on cost. Full Stop.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Newsflash we all were conceived female by default with the X. After the first month our vaginas and ovaries grew into cocks and testicles by testosterone released from the Y to overide the X. The female brain circuitry we had gets shut off so male circuitry with testosterone takes place. Female is the default sex so a delay in development makes sense to cause this? My niece is a neurology major. She told me MTF brains resemble women. The Y part of the chromosome didn't complete it's magic in time and so the brain developed female or half female half male. MRI's back this up dude.
If this were 1987 and not 2017, this debate would be on gays in the military and how unnatural it is as it is a mental illness. Gay men might do something to your boys in the bathroom too! That was common in the 1980s and earlier.
Today, things have changed as employers and people realize they know nothing about it and they are just ordinary people. If the thought of being with a man repulses you then good you're straight! No big deal.
Same is true with trans. If the thought of looking pretty and changing your genitals mortifies you then congrats you think like a dude! Others it is not quite so easy and they are just now being recognized. I agree with the experts as they have a Doctoral degree and have studies on their side. You do not.
I don't know anybody who is trans. You keep saying that BS that hoping the majority of people like me will feel like the oddball. Just aint true though.
Everybody in SF, Manhattan, and Miami Beach probably know someone. Those are not military recruiting hotbed though, so my guess is most soldiers are more like me.
Oh boy, tech leaders offering their opinion on how the military conducts training. Next week: the US Army telling Facebook how to do social media
You should really step outside your bubble a bit. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it hatred.
The Air Force does not allow color blind pilots. Clearly they hate the disabled right?
Documenting a forty percent suicide rate in the general trans community without controlling or otherwise accounting for membership in the armed forces says nothing about what the suicide rate of trans members in the military might be.
That's why!
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
These two statements appear to contradict eachother. Either people who are not combat ready do not get into the military or you do not get to stay home because of a combat ready weakness. Which is it?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Fuck you, fish tits!
As far i know, this was done to stop people from joining the army, getting a free sex change operation and leaving the army.
Trump tried the saner "just block pentagon from paying for sex surgeries" approach first, and it got blocked, so this is the end result.
No, I fucking don't. I even work at a goddamned university, and I STILL don't know, even in passing, a single mentally ill tranny.
Stop repeating your fucking lies. Trannies are like 0.1% or less of the population. Statistically insignificant, no matter how hard you push your kike agenda down our throats.
That wasn't part of the research. That was the authors speculating.
What they were afraid to say is that mentally ill people in general have a higher suicide rate than the rest of the population.
Personally I'm conflicted about this.
On the one hand, let'em serve on the front line and they simply don't have time to whine about microaggressive discrimination or whatever.
On the other hand, if they're not on the front line they'll whine about safe spaces, so you'll run the risk they'll tie down your PR, HR, and legal departments to the point your military is so tied up in damage control press conferences, bullshit sensitivity trainings, and expensive red tape, that the front line ends up having to take care of itself.
Of course, the real problem is that it's the SJWs that militantly whine through bullhorns, not the supposedly downtrodden micro-sized group of downtrodden shmucks of the week. Because the real gender-issued special snowflakes are really small group of the population, but SJWs much less so, and SJWs are each louder and more attention-seeking than about a score normal people.
So I'll support forcibly drafting SJWs into shock troop infantry with a fast track to the hottest front lines like the Russians did with their criminals. Problem solved.
Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey said, "Discrimination in any form is wrong for all of us."
Yet he's happy to do it when it can hurt conservatives.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
100% of the service people are ready for combat theater deployment. You don't get to stay home because you have a combat ready weakness.
These two statements appear to contradict eachother. Either people who are not combat ready do not get into the military or you do not get to stay home because of a combat ready weakness. Which is it?
You've changed the first statement from "ready for combat theater deployment" to "combat ready." The former statement means "know they can be ordered to, and are expected to pack up and go, when needed". The latter means "ready to deal with it when they get there." Sadly, not everyone who knows they are expected to go are ready to survive the result.
both my wife and myself have to work with them with a smile. we like our paychecks and assets just like you do.
Actually it's pretty much exactly what you said, but hey fuck me right?
Or, they could just read the note. There's usually a note.
I've provided a few citations for why that might be in another post:
https://apple.slashdot.org/com...
Given that 62.7% have an identifiable mental comorbidity, and 81.4% have a personality disorder, I think there's a very, very high probability that the high suicide rate comes from mental illness rather than societal pressures.
I'm sure they'd get plenty!
Haven't you heard? Correlation is causation nowadays. If transexual people commit suicide more than the general population, transexuality cause suicide. And suicide cause transexuality.
Actually, that's completely opposite of the truth. Rates drop significantly after transition if the person is supported. In fact, the entire reason the medical community even treats transsexualism at all, is that they know for a fact the suicide rates drop so significantly.
Do you really believe insurance companies would pay for any treatment if it made no difference? No, they require proof of positive results. Also, medical ethics completely precludes performing surgery for no reason, which is what it would be if it didn't help.
Do like 5 minutes of research.
I've seen one. She-née-he handed me a bag through a McDonalds window.
If that's what she wants to, that's fine. Pee where you want, circle M or F as you see fit, and shoot terrorists to your heart's content. it just doesn't seem like a smart choice. Seems like a much happier life could be lived by, even though you're a woman in a man's body, just pretending to be a man in a man's body and sleeping with dudes.
Or chicks. I super don't care what anybody does.
They're welcome to do as they like in my book, and the one constant in the world is that Trump will always be a perfect dipshit.
But doesn't it seem like a bad idea to try to pass as a woman if you know you'll never actually fool anyone and a huge number of them will hate you for trying?
the drag queens of US army lol...
Derp. Surprisingly, businesses are still focused on earning money and they employ any strategies they can to help this effort. Thus includes PR that's strategically designed to target the 'feel good' parts of their customers psyche while trying to associate that positive feeling with their company, all so you'll view the business as a close friend.
I am calling bullshit that you were a grunt, a grunt is an infantryman. No infantryman says "combat grunt" .
Want to run the military?
Tech execs in particular those in Silicon Valley live in a great filter bubble/echo chamber that distorts their view on reality.
NOT a good mental state to take military decisions.
So that's that.
That makes you what? A peasant? Why are you submitting your opinion here again? Irony are you just too st-st-st-stupid?
Agree. Why should tech CEO's or celebrities be a better source of general political ideas than Joe Sixpack?
Because leaders of massive companies have more experience managing large workforces than joe sixpack working for the man. So their opinion of the impacts of diversity in the workforce are somewhat relevant to the discussion (and it is a discussion, we need more discussing and less ramming down throats)
The anecdote of 1 TG cannot lead to a suggestion of anything whatsoever. Statistic do not work that way. But with respect to suicide , that was what the point I was hinting at with peer review - you also have to look at why the suicide are done BTW and whether the reason of those are likely to happen in military situation (training camp, combat etc...). It could be that properly studied , we find that the situation leading to those suicide is unlikely in military and make TG even better soldat (unlikely but could be - the point is not to act on prejudice)
That still that does not make length a policy was alive a factor worth looking at, which was my point of contention.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Humans only support freedom of speech when you're saying what they want to hear. Pretending it's just liberals or just conservatives is xenophobia. Recognize it and knock it off.
Fake news spread largely via Facebook massively impacted the last election. If Mark wants to be president, I think he basically just gets to be.
Yes. The person who you were responding to was doing just that. as are you.
Freedom of speech! Great, isn't it!?
It may be worth noting that Trump did not do anything. He simply tweeted something. I am fairly certain, that Trump knows the difference between a tweet and an executive order. That means he didn't decide to throw transgender people out of the military (lots of them are already serving), but decided to communicate about military and transgender.
There are a lot of theories on what Trump's tweets are supposed to achieve. One I found pretty interesting was this: Trump doesn't have a stake in decency or respect for the office of the president or integrity of the government or any of those things. But other people do. So they are forced to react. Because they care. Trump himself doesn't. He keeps people busy that way. And he keeps himself in the spotlight.
Given that 62.7% have an identifiable mental comorbidity, and 81.4% have a personality disorder, I think there's a very, very high probability that the high suicide rate comes from mental illness rather than societal pressures.
You don't have much conception of the societal pressures. Personally, I dealt with varying levels of depression from about age 8 until fairly recently, and it's been precisely the realization of how much of that was due to external pressures that has been key to ending that. One of the more punishing mental traps is the idea that you are somehow shameful or wrong for being who you are. That is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, however. I mean, look at this forum; Slashdot is even one of the better-educated parts of the Internet.
As far as your studies go...oh boy. So the statistical error you're making is not considering or controlling for other confounding factors. Assault and various kinds of sexual and other abuse occur at a rate far higher than the general population, and these have well-documented effects on mental health. You're also interpreting a correlation as a causation, and specifically framing that causation in a manner which supports your prejudices when all evidence suggests the reverse. I also am forced to assume that you did not read anything of those studies beyond the abstract. You might have noticed that the one was published in "Psychiatry Journal", the other in "Medical Journal of Islamic Republic of Iran", and both of them were done in Iran. Even if there were some reason to believe that these were valid journals or good science, there's no justification for assuming that these figures correspond to conditions in the Western world.
So to repeat, I did ask for something other than the first paper that came to hand. And a minimum standard of politeness would involve reading it first.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
The sooner we build the B Ark the better.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
push there issues [...] There's allot of that
Plus all the run-on sentences.
I'd say he totally is a grunt.
Two reasons Trump is coming out with this shit now:
1. Draw attention away from the Russia investigation.
2. Naked populism. Most Americans dislike LGBT, so he's throwing them a fucking bone. Gets their nubs hard knowing they're shitting on a minority.
Being manipulated quite so effectively by a narcissistic moron does not reflect well on you, but then neither did electing the odious cunt in the first place.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Yes, even Trump and Hillary are alowed to give their opinion about quantum chromodynamics or wether goto's are bad or if all methods should only have one exit point. However, that does not mean anyone would give them any value.
Let the cross dressers serve, but send them out in the first asssult wave.
Well, notes are not necessarily telling the truth. They are not necessarily reflecting the reality. It is not because the author is now dead it is more credible. There is a lot of people committing suicide on false perceptions or just because of mental illness.
Achille Talon
Hop!
These two are making noise about the trans issue when the real issue should be their anti-competitive business practices. They are running monopolies at the expense of the people! These companies need to be broken up.
Right, because you're the only person with fucking problems, buddy.
Sorry you're so sad. Maybe your feewings need more pampering? Maybe you can take two Trump mental health days from your bullshit cushy job this week instead of one?
Meanwhile, stable people with actual problems will somehow deal with it, without whining or taking prescriptions.
Who cares what Tech Leaders think regarding this subject? I want to hear the opinions of military, medical, psychology, logistical etc.
Um, this is a Trump success sweetie.
Stuff you hate isn't a failure. In fact, it's why we elected him.
You seem to be a real expert on the matter BobHudson
It is not bigotry that I don't want to pay for someone's sex change... I love trans people. I have no problem with them, serving in the military or whatever else...
I don't want to pay for breast enhancements, sex charges, viagra, face lifts, or any other elective shit.
That you frame it as, "you pay for this, or you're an evil person." pisses people like me off and makes us vote against your interests.
Not for long, honey.
Your panties are in an awful knot over the non-successes of this failed lame duck's non-actions.
Face it: You lost. You're lashing out trying to downplay the massive success of Trump in obliterating the liberal social engineering agenda. The Supreme Court appointment alone ruins your narrative. We win for the next 30 years.
This might actually be the right time to identify as an attack helicopter.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
https://www.lifesitenews.com/n...
I don't have an answer but as the military has a major issue with sexual assault of females within their own ranks. I'm not entirely convinced that expecting females to accept penis or be accused of hate crimes is necessarily the best solution. Also http://www.military.com/join-a... is a damn long list, medical conditions are problematic for armies to deal with.
And youll soon find, you have no fucking choice cupcake.
No. They don't usually leave a note. I have no idea why you'd think they do. Maybe you think it is so from consuming works of fiction? Fewer than 40% leave notes, with some counties being in the 15% range.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Counties... Not counties.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Holy shit a damn... Countries.
Ah, autocorrect favors counties. D'oh!
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
The military isnt a bunch of whining little cunts like you. Theyve passed their complaints up the chain of command until it reached the appropriate level of action. Said action just took place.
Keep your cock holster closed about a world you know nothing about.
A quote by the late Bill Hicks: "Anyone dumb enough to want to be in the military should be allowed in. End of fucking story. That should be the only requirement. I don't care how many push-ups you can do – put on a helmet, go wait in that fox hole. We'll tell you when we need you to kill somebody. I've been watching all these Congressional hearings and all these military guys and all the pundits going, "The esprit de corps will be affected, and we are such a moral " Excuse me, but aren't you all a bunch of fucking hired killers? Shut up! You are thugs, and when we need you to go blow the fuck out of a nation of little brown people, we'll let you know. Until then "
I couldn't agree more they're nothing but a bunch of grandstanding liberals
So, I just did some research, and even a trans advocacy sites indicate the rates don't drop significantly after gender reassignment surgery. They cite a study in Sweden. While it does help with the dysphoria, it doesn't do much to help with other issues. They still kill themselves at alarming rates.
And no, I don't have any prejudice, that I'm aware of, with trans people. I've spent much of my life in 'alternative lifestyle' groups. I am friends with multiple people who have gone so far as to transition.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
A 2014 UCLA study, the Williams Institute therein, puts suicides at 42% and 41%, for males and females, respectively.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Yes, they do. Nice try, though.
I understand the drugs and operations to switch gender are exceedingly costly. Let the transgenders pay these costs out of their pockets if the military hires them. Currently I was told they would have to pay hundreds of K per year. The military could use such money to increse salaries for everyone else much more
usefully.
Why should tech CEO's or celebrities be a better source of general political ideas than Joe Sixpack?
What are you, a communist? The answer is unambiguous: because they have more money. We had a much-publicized supreme court decision on this very issue - having lots of money entitles your opinions to maximum visibility. This may seem unreasonable or unfair to a legal layperson, but lessor people are still allowed to speak in their tiny little voices, or to plug their ears if they don't like what they're hearing, so clearly we all still all have free speech and blah blah blah.
The point is: if you want a say in politics, you can have it. It's available to everyone, including Joe Sixpack, because this is a free country full of free people. Like everyone else, Joe just needs to spend a few tens of millions of dollars on lobbying and political campaigning.
This.
>The military already evaluates every recruit Depending on their quota, recruiters are evaluating whether or not you have a pulse and can sign the dotted line. Lets be serious for a moment. The military's job is to kill people and fuck shit up, not be your social justice experiment test bed. Trans people are not "just like blacks and Mexicans", they are suffering form body dysmorphia - it's a form of mental illness. If you have a penis and think you are a woman inside, you are no more sane than someone who thinks they are really a unicorn, deep down inside.
Taxes are taxes, neither you nor I get a lot of say in how that money is spent.
Does anyone have numbers on how many people this affects?
As in, how many are currently in the military and how many join per year on average?
>Is there data to back this up or could it be just the bigoted opinion of a few jerks? The same things were said about blacks, gays, and women. One of the things the military beats out of you is special snowflake syndrome. Transexuals are pretty much the spitting image of a special snowflake in denial of reality of basic biology. Just because they've managed to bring along a big part of the left into their collective delusions doesn't make it sound military policy to coddle them in the military ranks.
Statistically, trans people are the ones with "actual problems". And I would be happy to keep this to myself except that doesn't seem to free me from people trying to pass laws against my existence. If you retards didn't get so riled up by "perverts" then it wouldn't be a political issue at all. Trans people are nearly universally poor (and go ahead and tell me what you think about giving one a job), disorganized, and typically having some sort of ongoing health issue. The few transgender activists I know are struggling to get any attention from anyone, and I've never heard word one about legislation. Generally the struggle is to get people to acknowledge there's any sort of problem in the first place. Case in point: your post.
The difference between you and trans people is that no one cares about trans people. No matter what problems you might have, people will act like you deserve them. Medical issues? Meh. Shoulda thought of that before you were queer. Legal issues? Well, that's just what happens to "those people". Get raped or assaulted? You probably provoked it. And statistically all of those things happen at a rate far exceeding the normal population. I live in one of the safest corners of the queerest city in the US, and my friends are surprised that I don't carry mace.
We don't want anything from you. We're too busy "dealing with it". No one's asking people to stop abusing trans people, just maybe stop treating our lives like a political toy as well. I don't necessarily mind having to constantly worry about becoming a hate crime statistic, but enshrining prejudice in law is another level of violation.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
The only T guy I knew (we didn't know, then - that was his affair, not ours) made a great M career, and then transitioned gracefully to F - changed his (her) job to manage something more socially-sensitive, and is probably in line for a national award for community service just now. Nobody would know, unless the scarf slipped to reveal the 'adam's apple', and surely no one need care. I can't see that progress happenning well in any military environment, in any country at all.
Seen any statistics on what happens to trans people in every corner of this country? I'm sorry if you think that "Trump supporter" should be a protected class of idiot.
You're virtue signalling by posting that you don't like people virtue signalling about things you don't like (transgender people, it seems).
We are talking about 0.03% of the US population here... How about the rest of us, the 299,910,000 who are NOT trans whatever?
I don't know anybody who is trans. You keep saying that BS that hoping the majority of people like me will feel like the oddball. Just aint true though.
Everybody in SF, Manhattan, and Miami Beach probably know someone. Those are not military recruiting hotbed though, so my guess is most soldiers are more like me.
Just because you think you don't know anyone doesn't necessarily make it true. Also, you missed the part where you might not know someone, but you know someone who knows someone.
There's a huge incentive in the military to NOT reveal what's going on with your gender identity if it doesn't match your physical sex, so there are plenty who have not even tried to transition yet, same as everywhere else in real life.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Your post getting voted down to minus figures is not "censorship", it's just an indication that the majority of people voting on your comment think you're talking shit and rate your comment accordingly.
Also keep in mind forums are privately owned, and much like people have the right to kick you out of a restaurant if you start saying abusive things, they also don't have to tolerate you saying abusive things on the forum they have allowed you to register on. You're essentially a guest, given the privilege of participating in a community, and that privilege can be revoked for whatever reason its owners like.
Free speech means you can express your opinions in a public place without getting thrown in jail for dissent against the government.
You don't see silencing from right wingers? Rule VI on the Trump-Supporters-Only Safe Space wants a word: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_D...
These people have to respond like this in the press or the press will turn on them like vultures.
Trump said his decision was influenced by the cost to support such a small minority group in the military campaign... Let's see what would happen if we put it to a national vote - "Would you like to pay extra taxes to support transgenders in the military?" How do you think that vote would turn out? How about a vote on deporting all members of the mainstream press?
If we take your figure of 0,1%, then there's damn good statistical odds that you either know someone or know someone who knows someone. You just don't know it. Why you seem to think that it has anything to do with working at a university is beyond me - it has nothing to do with it.
If you have known 100 people in your life (and that's low) then there's a 1 in 10 chance that at least one of them is trans. If none of them are, and we apply the same conditions (each knows 100 people), then the odds rise to 90% that one of those people knows someone who is trans.
Not my fault you failed math.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Trump: "We will recall congress on the first day and repeal Obamacare." Wasn't that why you elected him?
Didn't happen the first day, nor the first week, nor the first month, nor the first season ... still isn't happening 6 months later. And now that the vote to repeal failed, they're looking at either a watered-down version or a bipartisan bill. So much for getting rid of Obamacare.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I won't deny that I've had personal motives to study it for decades, even before it hit public awareness. And my name has never been Bob (or any variant).
I don't hide the fact that I'm a male-to-female transsexual, because there's nothing to be ashamed of. And here, there's not really any stigma any more. Even if my birth certificate didn't now say I was born female, it doesn't mean that I would run into much in the way of problems.
I've never encountered problems using the women's bathroom, and ironically, even the latest Texas bathroom bill would require me to use the women's bathroom. That's what happens when you make it dependent on the birth certificate - you pass a stupid law, you just look stupid to the rest of the world. Again.
Even Estonia and Bolivia allow transgender individuals to serve in the military. Canada's military just tweeted that they are promoting the recruiting of transgender individuals. in direct response to Trump's proposed ban.
Why is it that the US military is, according to Trump, composed of people who can't adapt to change, either on their own or with training? 18 other countries have done so, with no problems. Additionally, there are 2500 transgenders currently serving in the US military, and plenty more who have served, including former Navy SEALS. Where were the problems all these years?
Trump is just throwing shit at the wall in an effort to distract from his screw-ups with Russia, Jeff Sessions, the failed vote to repeal Obamacare, etc.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Transgender politics has nothing to do with technology.
Yes, because those trans people that committed suicide were really just depressed about not getting into the military...
"Fuck me with an unfinished plank sideways, is that an actual thing?"
Yes, though I usually hear the marketroids use the term "PR Strategery". YMMV.
Right now, answer: are you, or someone in your immediate family, or your church, RIGHT NOW volunteering to join the military to replace trans folk who will be forced to leave?
And if you have no one, then STFU.
Wrong. The military already issued an internal memo saying that it will be business as usual wrt transsexuals serving in the military. So suck it up.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
"Everyone should be able to serve their country -- no matter who they are."
I have a big problem with that quote. The implication is that the only way people can server their country is via the military. This is a False Choice. Furthermore, you can easily serve as part of a Gov't Contractor, Gov't Employee, that is not directly tied to the Military and server your country, and that's just for jobs where the salary comes from Uncle sam in some form.
Let us not forget there are many who serve in other ways, in police, fire, medical, rescue and forestry services. Non profit organizations that feed the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless. Can we cut through the bull crap here? Not everyone is cut out to be a soldier, that's not a defect, and it is not discrimination as far as I am concerned. No, that's just life.
Transition is not the right word, it's transform. And you can't, it's determined by your DNA. It's just a mental disorder that makes you believe you can, but even if you're chopping off parts that doesn't change who you are.
Bullshit, have you ever been to T_D?
So black people are not discriminated against? Don't suffer from victimization, bullying or violence?
Because if they were they would have higher rates of mental illness and higher rates of suicide, correct?
However, the suicide rate is actually *lower* in the black community.
Does this mean that whites are more discriminated against than blacks, or that your (and the paper's) thesis is faulty?
I personally think that gender dysphoria is either caused by or the cause of metal illness.
Estimated costs of supporting trans : $8m
Amount spent by miltary on viagra : $80m
This isn't about the cost
Your panties are in an awful knot over the non-successes of this failed lame duck's non-actions.
Face it: You lost. You're lashing out trying to downplay the massive success of Trump in obliterating the liberal social engineering agenda. The Supreme Court appointment alone ruins your narrative. We win for the next 30 years.
You must be joking. I wanted Trump to win. For one thing, Clinton would have just continued the duplicity of the democrats, and she already has several wars to her credit. For another, it was obvious that Trump would destroy the republican party from within, especially the tea party faction.
Thirdly, I'm not an American, so I can give a less biased opinion. Your president is the idiot-in-chief whom nobody else respects (then again, a lot of people on his staff don't respect him either, so BFD).
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Guess you didn't read the news. Trump lied again (no surprise there). The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff denied any consultations between the military and Trump, and no other member of the joint chiefs has come forward to say they were consulted. Also, defense secretary Mattis wasn't consulted, even though he is the one who ordered a review of policy wrt transgenders last month, and that review is not yet complete.
Trump again lies to distract. Also, the generals who implemented the current policy are all still in their jobs: The military leadership who were consulted about the Obama transgender policy that was subsequently put in place, and is still in force as of today, haven't changed. The chiefs of staff of the Army and Air Force, the Chief Naval Officer, the Marine Corps Commandant and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are all the same as they were under the Obama administration.
None of them had a problem with the policy, so who did Trump consult? Maybe Russian general Valery Gerasimov? Or Russian commander-in-chief Comrade Putin?
Your claims of complaints being passed up the chain of command is denied by the military, so stop making up shit, loser. You wanted Trump, you got him, now be ready to be the laughing stock of the world and Putin's cockholster.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
The experts disagree with you. So does most of the western world. But you're free to put it to the test - chop off your balls and then tell us that you are not in some way changed physically and mentally (in other words, not wholly the same person).
Also, I have never claimed either that it changes DNA or basic personality. If basic personality were amenable to change, there would be no need for transition, we would just change the person's personality. However, the many failed attempts, with tragic consequences, show that changing a person's gender identity is impossible, so we change the body to fit for the specific purpose of reducing conflict between the person's identity and body. Same as we would get glasses to fix near or far-sightedness, or various other medical treatments for other medical conditions - to help the individual function better in their environment.
You can't cure a mental disorder that doesn't exist - and transsexualism isn't a mental disorder. Then again, being in denial of that is a sign that you may be delusional.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Do you think the suicide rate might have something to do with the marginalisation they experience????
Honest questions, not trying to judge the path you've chosen to take, and certainly not trying to upset you:
1) do you believe that the surgery and treatment you've gotten has made you a woman?
2) do you believe you would have committed suicide if you had not gotten the surgery and treatment?
3) if people don't accept you as a "real" woman (if you don't "pass"), do you feel mental distress?
My guess is you can probably see how your answers to those questions would guide my argument against transgender in the military - if it really is something that has been a source of serious mental distress in your life, possibly up to and including suicidal ideations, then it would be a disqualifying factor for military service. And on the other hand, if it isn't that serious, and you could have just as easily skipped the surgery and treatment, and you aren't distressed by people who misgender you, then military service, as your natural born sex, should be perfectly reasonable without any special accommodations for your own personal beliefs about what sex you are post-op.
Anyway, again, your path is your path, and I hope nothing but the best for you, but if you could honestly answer those questions, I'd appreciate it.
Let's go to the authority on transgenders in the military, since anything I say is nowhere near as relevant to what the Joint Chiefs of Staff have ruled. They decided to open up the military to transgenders after studying the issue. They are still the same Joint Chiefs serving as when the decision was made. Trump lied (so what else is new) when he implied that the current military was consulted. The head of the Joint Chiefs said he was only informed after the tweet. He also said that policy remains the same. and will continue to be the same until the Secretary of Defense both orders a change and provides implementation details.
And as we all know, the devil is in the details. Any attempt to dismiss the thousands of transgenders currently serving in the military is going to end up before the courts. Also, you might want to check out everyone in the military who says that as long as they can be depended upon like any other soldier, they really don't give a flying fuck.
As to your questions:
1. Surgery doesn't change the genetic makeup. However, genes are only a small portion of who you are. The most important part is between the ears, and in transsexuals there is sufficient evidence of physical differences that cross over to the opposite sex. Those differences can't be undone, and they affect your perception of who you are. So your brain is hard-wired to say "I am a woman." Fighting it is impossible. Changing it is impossible. The ill-advised attempts (and false success stories) have proven it. What we can change is the body - so why not? It's my body, my decision, same as abortion.
2. Suicide is an option for every single human being on this planet. I've made my decision that when life gets unbearable I will overdose on insulin - a quick, painless death - hopefully somewhere on the other side of 100. In the meantime, I have advanced medical orders that result in the withdrawal of all medical care except pain killers in the event that I am too far gone to take action myself - the form is supplied by the government and registered with the government. Same as we allow euthanasia. Death is a fact of life - but we hopefully have a choice in seeing that it's a "good death", not some long-drawn-out suffering. However, I also support the right of anyone to decide at any time that their life isn't worth living, and hopefully euthanasia on demand will be available to all who desire it.
I have had ptsd most of my life, with the accompanying recurring bouts of major depression, so suicide has sometimes looked damn tempting. It's something I have to be on the lookout for, especially since every episode makes the brain more likely to experience another episode. The only drug that seems to work is a higher dose of estrogen (estrogen is a powerful antidepressant in its own right, same as it also increases muscle mass, protects the heart and cardiovascular system, reduces the risk of stroke, makes blood vessels more flexible, and - from personal experience - makes you feel half your age. The best part is the purported risks have been debunked by better research).
3. I'm so open about what I am nowadays in part because of the wide acceptance I've received, just by being myself. Basically, I let everyone know that I don't mind if they tell others. Why should I? It's not like I should be ashamed of who or what I am. On the contrary, it's a tough row to hoe, and I'm proud of what I've accomplished in that respect. And there's the added bonus of other women thinking I'm a decade younger than I am because I don't look it. Hormones == good :-)
Those who don't accept it and make an issue of it in public, I take before the human rights commission. They very quickly see the error of their ways. Some argue that this is going overboard - I believe that ONLY legal action will result in permanent change - it tends to focus the mind and force people to justify their actions, or if unable, to at the very least keep their transmisogynist opinions to themselves. Holding people accoun
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
The military is not a place for someone to undergo sexual transformation. And especially not footing the bill either.
It's a place for men with guns to learn how to kill people.
If you want to transform you body, best to do it elsewhere.
Thank you for your detailed reply. My greatest sympathies for your distress pre-op, and any distress you have post-op when people still consider you a man. I can totally understand why people might still consider you a man, despite your surgery, but their minds, their choice - we can't force people to believe what you believe. Rather than label that "transmisogynist", I'd call that a difference in beliefs, with no malintent.
I think you make a good case for keeping transgender out of the military - the transgender journey is a serious and significant one, and cannot be minimized.
Good luck on the rest of your journey, may it be safe.
The big source of stress was ptsd, not being trans. ptsd, plus the events that lead up to it, and the accompanying anxiety and depressive disorders, are things that never fully leave you. Their effects have rippled through the decades until it finally got to the point where I had to seek professional help. Scary stuff, but fortunately a good therapist and a lot of hard work have had amazing results. Unfortunately, other problems continue to dodge me, in particular my crappy retinas.
But that's okay. And as for the people who don't accept me as a woman, that doesn't cause me any distress. I cause them distress by calling them out on it in from of everyone, and if an apology isn't forthcoming, going the legal route. Haven't had to do that since 2013, so I guess the message has been received.
I don't label people who honestly have a hard time accepting sex changes trans-misogynists - the term comes from two words - transsexual misogynist. Misogyny is the hatred of and contempt for women. Trans-misogyny is hate directed specifically at trans-women - and this site is full of examples. It reminds me that not everyone is so lucky as to have pretty much everyone accept them for who they are in real life. Then again, I am very open, so nobody needs to worry about walking on eggshells around me - just ask me questions and I give explanations, except for things that are none of anyone's business - in other words, things you'd never ask any woman in normal conversation.
"Transphobia" is a bullshit term. Trans-misogynists are not afraid of transsexual women, any more than homophobes who go around beating up gays and lesbians are afraid of gays and lesbians. It's hatred and contempt, not fear. And they revel in it. They embrace it. That's hardly a phobia.
Same as misogyny and misandry are not fear of women and men respectively, but a serious lack of respect and appreciation for the targets. It's self-destructive. For example, I'm fed up with all the people who keep posting memes targeting all members of the opposite sex long after they've gone their separate ways. Seriously, you split up a decade ago and you still do this shit? Your kids see it, your friends see it, your co-workers see it, employers and potential employers see it, potential partners see it ... kind of stupid unless you really, really intended to shoot yourself in the foot, in which case it's really stupid.
I'm fortunate in that I've seen it from both sides, so I get it. I just don't approve of it, from either sex.
Thanks.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Personally, I dealt with
The singular form of data is not anecdote.
As far as your studies go...oh boy. So the statistical error you're making is not considering or controlling for other confounding factors. Assault and various kinds of sexual and other abuse occur at a rate far higher than the general population
Aside from the fact that you were demanding citations earlier and then just feel you don't need to provide any yourself, if you actually read the second citation I gave, it specifically mentions that these conditions are found among those who haven't yet begun.
You might have noticed that the one was published in "Psychiatry Journal", the other in "Medical Journal of Islamic Republic of Iran", and both of them were done in Iran.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.c...