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The Trump Administration Has Announced the End of DACA -- Unless Congress Can Act To Save It (recode.net)
The Trump administration said on Tuesday it plans to scrap a program that allows about 800,000 undocumented immigrants who came to the US as children to stay and work in the country, shrugging off criticism from within the president's own party and prominent business figures. From a report: The Trump administration is essentially leaving Congress a six-month window of time to try to save it. The legal shield is known as Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, and since its enactment in 2012, it has allowed roughly 800,000 undocumented young adults to live in the United States and obtain work authorizations every two years. [...] In practice, implementation is complicated. Those previously approved under DACA, with the permission to work in the United States, can continue to work without interruption until those approvals expire. And those who have already applied for protection or are seeking renewals will still have their applications considered by the U.S. government. For those whose permits are set to expire before March 5, 2018, though, the U.S. government will also allow them to renew their DACA status -- provided their applications are received before Oct. 5, 2017. Currently, there are about 201,000 young adults whose authorizations are set to expire this year, officials at the Department of Homeland Security explained Tuesday.
Tech giants like Apple, Facebook and Google are no doubt going to blast the Trump administration's decision: Last week, those executives joined more than 400 other business leaders in calling on the president to preserve DACA. Apple CEO Tim Cook, who previously (and privately) pressed Trump on the issue, said on Sunday that 250 of his "co-workers" would be affected by the change. Microsoft indicated that about 27 workers spanning fields like finance and sales would be hurt from Trump's move. Zuckerberg said, "This is a sad day for our country. The decision to end DACA is not just wrong. It is particularly cruel to offer young people the American Dream, encourage them to come out of the shadows and trust our government, and then punish them for it."
Tech giants like Apple, Facebook and Google are no doubt going to blast the Trump administration's decision: Last week, those executives joined more than 400 other business leaders in calling on the president to preserve DACA. Apple CEO Tim Cook, who previously (and privately) pressed Trump on the issue, said on Sunday that 250 of his "co-workers" would be affected by the change. Microsoft indicated that about 27 workers spanning fields like finance and sales would be hurt from Trump's move. Zuckerberg said, "This is a sad day for our country. The decision to end DACA is not just wrong. It is particularly cruel to offer young people the American Dream, encourage them to come out of the shadows and trust our government, and then punish them for it."
Funny how American companies not being able to find enough affordable workers is a 'global problem', yet people not being able to find clean drinking water, enough food to eat, and/or safety from violence and corrupt governments is a 'them' problem.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I don't know what this is, but since this comes from Trump and I'm a (Democrat/Republican) this is therefore the (worst/best) thing in a long line of (bad/good) things to come from Trump that can do no (right/wrong).
Now get that wall built.
With all those pesky immigrant children out of the job pool I can finally become a farm-hand! MAGA!
We were supposed to motivate the next round of illegal aliens!
I'm reserving judgement on this one.
and they'll get slaughtered in their primaries if they come to DACA's defense. It's the same problem they had with Obamacare but worse since in that case they could at least try to repeal it.
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They bickered and whined and complained about health care, which got us no where. And they'll do the same with this.... shoot... maybe that's the point. Maybe once the majority of the public realizes how ineffective congress is at ANYTHING, we can finally start talking about new ways of getting things done.
This is not tech news just because the janitorial staff of a couple of evil corporations will be disrupted. Does Conde Nast own this site too?
Nope. Still not tired of winning.
If there's popular support and congress is functioning, a solution should not be a problem.
Pesky pen and phone isn't exactly the same as actually passing a law, eh?
And we won't even talk about the blatant constitutional issues around a pResident implementing a policy that ignores established law.
1. Reduce violent crime. Violent crime and murder has reduced by 30% numerically and by 50% by murder rate since 1992 even though the number of illegal immigrants has increased greatly. Illegal immigrants moved into ghettos and reduced crime. That is factual.
2. Stand in for native crime victims. The right wing cherry pick and highlight solely illegal immigrant crimes to make you think natives are not committing rapes and murder. There are 15,000 murders in the USA every year, talk show hosts and the right wing machine only broadcasts about the ones committed by illegals. For every time you here of an illegal doing a violent crime against a native there are illegal immigrant crime victims.
It sounds like DACA was just a regulatory statement from the previous head of the executive branch. If so, it seems the current president can kill it, and is being extra-nice by at least offering a grace period.
If you want things with the force of law, well then, pass LAWS, right?
Change the law.
Simple concept. Executive orders to selectively enforce or refuse to enforce certain laws on the books are not sustainable models of immigration.
The Executive Branch does not make laws. DACA was a travesty of the seperation of powers, with the Executive Branch appointing itself powers of the Legislative Branch. Ending it is the right choice.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Those of us old enough to remember the passage of -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 remember that we were promised a trade off of genuine immigration control so that we wouldn't have to decide again how to deal with a population of millions of illegally resident aliens.
If you want street level police to stop abusing citizens and stop helping other police commit abuses you have to clearly show that you will no longer reward them with paid vacations. If you want Central America to stop dumping its unwanted population in the US, you have to clearly show that you will no longer reward them with US residency.
If you allow people to benefit from their crimes, you're condoning and providing an incentive for those crimes. In this case, American life for their children. On the other hand... I disagree with punishing the son for the sins of the father. God might be big on that (we're all still paying for Adam and Eve's disobedience right?), but I'm not.
So this is ultimately the kind of action you support if you're a religious fundamentalist, a racist, or simply ignorant and terrified that a flood of illegal immigrants are destroying everything you know.
I would obviously tend to the liberal position, but it does still bother me that the parents 'get away with it'. I'm OK with a nation setting rules for who can cross its borders and then enforcing those rules. That's kind of one of the fundamental jobs of a government.
That's because Trump is representative of the dying breed known as the 'Great White Male',
You seem to be confused. The real "great white male", the real dying breed is the typical imperialist liberal who wants government control over everything...
Trump represents the insurgence of the tired, the poor, the huddled masses of all races and backgrounds that are tired of inept government controlling everything, to ill ends for the people as the aristocrats on top get ever weather and more powerful.
It's ironic that in the end, the biggest symbol of the dying "Great White Male" was really Obama... Trump is just trying to reverse some of that damage.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How funny you claim something is "factual" with no proof behind it - at this point people are pretty used to liberals simply lying about something that want to be true but is the opposite of what they say.
In the end, the lies you tell and believe yourself hurt you more than anyone else...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I keep hearing from Session and others "this was unconstitutional". Well then if it was, which amendment or part of the constitution did it break ? No seriously, since you seem to hold the same argument , maybe you can tell us ?
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Never gonna happen. Lawbreakers can leave. If you want to apply for citizenship you have to leave and re enter legally.
That's the law. Not some Obama era interpretation of the law. Sorry if your parents were idiots. Not our problem.
Apple, Facebook, and Google now have the opportunity to replace these illegal aliens with legal, domestic, paraplegic, African-American lesbians with speech impediments.Or are Apple, Facebook, and Google ablest, homophobic, racists?
Unfortunately, even the people who drafted DACA admit that Trump's in a bind here because the order is unconstitutional.
10 state sttorneys general gave Trump a September 5 deadline for ending DACA or they would sue to get it overturned. This same group had DAPA (the parental version) thrown out due to unconstitutionality and the argument against DACA is essentially identical. They would win in court, barring a reversal by the Supreme Court. The SC split 4-4 on DAPA, so the Appeals Court 2-1 against is the law of the land and no one expects that Gorsuch would find DACA constitutional.
Any dispassionate look at DACA sees that it's plainly unconstitutional. Unlike orders that deferred or gave a low priority to enforcement of immigration laws, DACA actually grants (temporary) legal status with no legal basis. Any attempt to find otherwise is really ends-oriented. Plenty of that sort of thing on both sides - but this would be really bad precedent.
The truly sad thing is that the "Dreamers" have supporters on both sides of the aisle - Republicans are pretty sympathetic to their plight as well. But, like anything, politics gets in the way - Democrats want a "clean" Dreamer bill while Republicans want something in return (either wall funding or mandatory e-Verify). Neither side is budging much at the moment (there are a few bipartisan bills out there, but each of the main conferences are waiting).
I don't tend to expect much from Trump (other than crazy uncle-style Tweeting at all hours) but even he seems to want to do something for the Dreamers. Hopefully, a deal can get done soon.
... to be an informed American before I can support this.
- What, precisely, is the problem we are trying to fix?
- What, precisely, are the gains Americans will receive?
Are we going to save enough money to build a goddam wall?
Fuck you, Trump
Trump & Billy Bush lewd conversation about women Donald Trump On Tape: I Grab Women "By The Pussy” - YouTube.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Obama simply said "We're not going to prosecute these people." That's a huge Constitutional overreach.
If Obama & the Democrats wanted to make this permanent, they would have made it a law. But Obama & Democrats didn't care enough to make it a law. Obama wanted the political win without having to expend political capital & the Democrats in Congress didn't want a public vote.
800,000 well educated, young, ambitious persons at their best prime.
Which country would not want such an injection? ...oh yes, Trumplandia...
The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment is what courts have *already* ruled was violated by DAPA.
The argument is that DACA violates the same clause of the same amendment. There's a pretty good case for that.
So your idea to fix that problem is to keep Mexico a 3rd world country despite all the ingredients to a be a thriving country? Take all the worthy citizens and allow the government to use the open border as a political pressure valve to ensure their dynasty. Why revolt when there are government pamphlets that tell you how to cross the border and receive aid doing it!
A strong southern border and a wall primarily benefit the poor people in Mexico because they would actually stand up to their corrupt government. There would have been a revolution decades ago if it weren't for the open border of the US.
The Mexican people and country deserve better than the shit hole you condemn them to with an open border.
Obama never had the authority to implement DACA in the first place. Whether you like DACA as a policy or not, DACA undermines the rule of law, and that has disastrous consequences in the long run.
Trump's decision is a reasonable compromise: he is giving Congress six months to do what it should have done in the first place, namely define, in law, immigration policy for childhood arrivals.
Congress creates laws, the President is supposed to enforce them. DACA was the president saying, basically, that certain laws regarding immigration are going to be ignored. The President doesn't get to pick and choose which laws get enforced.
We cannot wait 4 more years.
For easy GPS targeting:
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--OR--
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If you don't like the law, CHANGE THE LAW!
Or move!
... since this was enacted by Administrative decree, and they sat on their ass about it the whole time. And now they want to "do something" to prove their relevance? Yeah ... no.
Since he cant get funding for the wall, Mexico has made it clear where Trump can pull funds from in no uncertain terms, and congress is having its typical debt ceiling crisis with probably the most expensive hurricane bailout thrown on top at the last instant - Trump has used his business genius to solve the wall problem. Simply fashion it from nationally orphaned souls, and cement it together with the lost hopes and dreams of a generation. I keep praying he doesn't alter the deal any further, but it doesn't seem to be working.
The steady decline of slashdot into right-wing idiocy over the past few years has been very sad to experience.
There's no debate here anymore, just entitled little whiners screaming racist sentiment while screaming even louder that the other side "are the real racists"
And it's now all over the politics. How the fuck is this story slash worthy. There's not even the veneer of a tech angle.
Shameful shit.
The current congress is as unified on immigration as they are on health care. It's over for DACA because even if congress could somehow pass a bill, it would never survive a presidential veto.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Republicans would have killed any attempt, or lose their support. The problem with relying on racist scum for votes is that they are racist scum who vote...
That still does not make it "constitutional", but the difference between good and lawful is a whole separate issue.
We are seeing a return to the rule of law. Whatever else President Trump has done, he seems to have been pretty consistent in this area.
I fucking want to murder people who use this kind of newspeak.
DACA was signed in Juner 2012, Congress has had over 5 years to pass a law since then but they chose to bellyache over it. If it's sych a great constitutional crisis they would have acted.
Nullius in verba
Illegal aliens are NOT immigrants.
They're not undocumented. They are cheap labor for cronies.
Build the wall, deport them all.
Facebook's failure to deal with the flood of far right fake news stories it spread during the campaign certainly contributed to Trump's election. Whether it was decisive or not is another question, but the only thing open for debate is how much fake news came from the Kremlin's propagandists and how much came from home-grown alt-right spinmeisters.
Now Zuckerberg is upset?
Sorry, kid. You made your bed. Now you have to lie in it.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Just wants cheap labor. They'll put them up in dormitories (i.e. slums) so they can be close to the office where they'll spend 16 hours a day working on craptastic websites and useless social media bullshit. They'll pay them half of the current going rate or even less. This is nothing to do with misnamed "dreamers" of whom there are very few. This is about indentured servitude.
From Trumps statements it sounds like he wouldn't veto it.
Could be lie but speculating as much is rather pointless. A lot of things could happen.
Grandparents point is valid and you're missing it. There's a powerful global apparatus for getting shit done, and it only seem to move when it benefits big business. Clean food and water aren't a local problem for people born in places that can't sustain the population. Which to be honest is most people. You benefit from them having these things though. You benefit from global stability. It's a lot cheaper to drop food than bombs.
The left whines about imperialism because 99% of the time that's the only thing that moves the US. We prefer dropping bombs to food. Trump's biggest bump in numbers was when he dropped a $20 million dollar bomb on about 500 angry Afghani goat herders with Soviet Era weapons.
We already know the things required to solve these problems. Food, education & birth control. Warmongers don't want to give out food and our religious nuts don't care much for education & birth control. Sure, it's only 20% of our populace, but they _vote_.
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jay's lawn care is going to have to pay min wage and workers comp now they will not have the illegals to pay under the table with the ER as there workers comp
illegals at the ER drive costs up
I dont understand, has the USA an excess of young people? Is that it? What exactly the age profile of those that will be affected by this?
So he's basically admitted that Apple has hired illegal aliens. (Or if you prefer, non-citizens without proper work authorization documents.) That's a violation of Federal law punishable by fines and imprisonment.
The DACA wasn't a law. It was just the Obama administration saying they wouldn't prosecute for violations of the actual law which mandates fines for hiring non-citizens without Federal work permits. The law is still there, and Cook has now admitted in public that his company is knowingly in violation of it. If he'd kept his mouth shut and only expressed an opinion, he could've feigned ignorance and kept the affected workers in Apple's payroll. But because he tried to publicly use their plight as leverage, he's now put himself into a position where Apple has to fire them or face fines and imprisonment.
Trump has no power left. Putin threw him under the bus on Russian State TV this weekend.
He's just lashing out desperately. It's what tin pot dictators do as they lose their grip on power, and the citizens laugh at them instead of cowering in Fear.
Without Fear, Trump had NADA.
Phone Congress and tell them to do their jobs. Accept no excuses. They work for YOU, not Comrade Trump.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You are right. But it is even worse than that, actually. Because of vagueness of the Constitution, certain wide-ranging and life-altering laws have passed without proper consent of the governed.
And I'm not just talking about Obamacare... Things like military draft, "civil rights", drug prohibitions, "war on poverty", "assault weapons" ban should all have been done (or not done) as Constitutional Amendments — not mere federal laws.
Alcohol-prohibition may have been a bad idea, but we all decided to attempt it — and then reversed the decision. There is no reason, ban on marijuana and other drugs shouldn't have been implemented (or not) through the same mechanism.
The minute details of enforcement/implementation could've been left to Congress, but the general intent — like do we want mandatory conscription at all, or should we limit the breadth of the Second Amendment — should've been decided by the entire nation.
As things stand, Congress supplants the nation the same way President supplants Congress... The decision-making needs to be pushed back a notch.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
So basically everybody is getting upset with Doland Trump for ending DACA, but that's not what he's doing. He's saying, "Congress, DO YOUR JOB!" Obama's executive action was unconstitutional. 'Repealing" DACA is completely legal.
"Politicians always tell the truth, when they're calling each other liars."
When will people wake up and realize he's a child.
He lives for attention.. ignore him and he'll go away and do less damage.
Feed his ego.. offer him suggestions and he'll do his damdest to make the most people sorry for ever paying attention to him.
'Make Trump Rant Again'
Trump is forcing them to craft a bill and vote on it just in time for their primaries before the 2018 elections. Ending illegal immigration polls at over 70% in favor. Hate him all you'd like but it's a brilliant strategy.
...and my Civics teacher was a communist trying to not-so-covertly indoctrinate us.
Stop dumping toxic plastics in the ocean call the USA.
Mark Zuckerberg proves with his statement that he's either a complete imbecile or so woefully biased in his thinking that in either case he shouldn't be allowed to be in charge of anything.
The whole reason Trump is doing this is to PROTECT DACA and to force Congress to do its job.
Obama's implementing DACA by Executive Order was a breach of separation of powers and completely unconstitutional. However Congress can pass a law implementing DACA that would be constitutional and survive judicial review. That is how it should have been done in the first place, and that is how Trump is trying to get it done now.
Trump does not want to get rid of DACA. He has flat out said that. But what he wants is for DACA to be implemented CORRECTLY so it will SURVIVE.
I also like the elegance of this move as a "fuck you" to Congressional Republicans, basically forcing them to implement something by law that they don't want to. If people get deported because of this, it'll be on them.
Funny how the 6 months timeout is right in the middle of the midterm election season.
Kudos to you, Mr. President. Kudos.
Racist president is racist.
Funny how government control is bad when it's federal but it's just fine when the state does it.
No, it's potentially very bad either way.
However at a federal level there is almost ZERO visibility into how power is being exerted, because the control is so far physically removed from the people.
It's quite a different matter when power is mostly concentrated at a state level, where anyone can literally WALK to to to people in control and give them "feedback", or oust them as needed.d
It's a question of how far removed from accountability and visibility power is.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Executive orders are by nature fleeting as they are not law. A new President can undo orders much faster than Congress can reverse laws. DACA was a stop-gap measure to "defer action", and give time for Congress to make it permanent by putting its ideas into law. The Republican Congress had no interest in doing so (unfortunate in my opinion), so it's hardly surpising that DACA is now being reversed.
Plus DACA was on legally shaky ground from the beginning. Even if we agree with a President their power should still be limited because we might not agree with the next President.
The whole "unless Congress can act to save it" is a transparent attempt to shield the WH from criticism. If Republican party wanted to enact a DACA-like law, they would have done it by now. When Obama first announced DACA, he said "if Congress doesn't like it, they can change it" and asked them to pass immigration reform. They didn't. It's clear to everyone with half brain that DACA legislation will never be passed.
What a pathetic attempt to shift the blame to Congress!
How this can be used politically against Trump is astounding and an example of the blatant idiological motivation of the press, dems, and republicans. This is how Truth dies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Of course you can trust the government, just ask any Native American.
Certainly in Europe, lots of "children" have arrived as refugees, without much in the way of identity papers. In more than a few cases, it turns out that they are in their 20's. In one egregious case, a guy was actually in his 30s. But generally there's no way to prove anything, no matter what people suspect. I don't know for certain what kinds of children the US is talking about, but seeing an age limit (on arrival) of 16, I expect it is similar to Europe. Children in their mid-teens, mostly male, many understating their age in order to be eligible.
Start with the law. Undocumented immigrants is weasel-wording for illegal immigrants. The US already went through one amnesty. The politicians at the time promised to close the borders, if the populace accepted granting the amnesty. Of course, they didn't, so the US now has roughly 10x as many illegal immigrants as there were at the time. Funny how granting amnesty to lawbreakers leads to more lawbreaking. So now the progressives want more amnesty.
Deport them. A nation that doesn't enforce its borders isn't really a nation.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Why should the prez care what tech giants think? They don't vote; corporations are not people. Granted, it's good to listen to all constituents and affected parties to understand all perspectives, but elected officials should be paying most of their attention to those who elect them. We are a democracy (or should be), not a corporatocracy.
(I'm not agreeing with the prez's decision, only saying big biz shouldn't be the major reason to set policy.)
Table-ized A.I.
"In the aaaaaaaarms oooooof an angel
Fly awaaaaaaaaaaay from heeeere"
Did you know that daily over 5,000 immigrants are deported? For only a few cents a day you can help find a home for one of these poor creatures.
The whole world is laughing at you America.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/digitaliberties/chenchen-zhang/curious-rise-of-white-left-as-chinese-internet-insult
They laugh at how you fight to keep people who entered illegally. They laugh at the idea of "anchor babies". They laugh at your protests AGAINST free speech and how all white people are "ebul natzees". They laugh at how you fawn over Obama even though he was just George Bush 2.0. They laugh at Antifa "using violence for piece", at the black supremacists in BLM calling for white genocide, at feminists ruining academia.
They laugh at you.
We're running out of vulnerable people for Trump to attack. Pretty soon he's going to come after regular folk instead of undesirables.
Eric Columbus who worked under Obama on DACA and how it effects POTUS Trump had a good overview on twitter.
He really explains how DACA and DAPA are illegal, and how DACA would fail under same court scrunity.
https://twitter.com/EricColumb...
THREAD: As a lawyer who worked for Obama on DACA issues, I’d like to explain what’s on Trump’s plate, how it got there, and what may happen.
2. DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) was created in 2012 to protect “Dreamers” – who came to US as kids but aren't here legally.
3. Essentially, DACA enables DHS to notify Dreamers formally – via a two-year permit – that they won’t be removed from the US.
4. Just as importantly, it renders them eligible to work legally and be eligible for certain benefits.
5. Candidate Trump promised to “immediately terminate” DACA. But he hasn’t, and in January he said DACA folks “shouldn’t be very worried.”
6. But on 6/29, ten state AGs wrote DOJ threatening to sue to kill DACA unless Trump agrees by 9/5 to phase it out.
7. Sad to say, I agree with the Trump administration that such a challenge to DACA is very likely to succeed.
8. The legal issues are *identical* to a suit that 26 states filed in 2014 to prevent us from implementing a new program called DAPA.
9. DAPA would have provided deferred action, and work authorization, to parents of US-born kids.
10. The 2014 suit also challenged an *expansion* of DACA announced at same time as DAPA. But it didn't challenge the original DACA program.
11. States won in district court and by a 2-1 vote on appeal. SCOTUS, after Scalia died, split 4-4, so the court of appeals decision stood.
12. We can presume the 4 who voted to invalidate were Thomas/Alito/Roberts/Kennedy. I'd bet a large sum that Gorsuch would join them.
13. It’s theoretically possible, of course, that someone – most likely Kennedy – could have a change of heart and save DACA.
14. Because SCOTUS doesn't bother writing opinions in tie votes, Kennedy’s slate is clean. He’s famously changed his mind in other cases.
15. But this is a slim reed on which to stake the hopes of the 780,000 people who benefit from DACA.
16. If the issues are identical, why didn’t the states try to kill DACA entirely in 2014? Probably because the Dreamers are too sympathetic.
17. They came here as kids, most brought by their parents. For many, the US is the only place they’ve ever considered home.
18. This may explain why, of the 26 states that sued in 2014, only 10 signed on to this letter.
19. Alas, the apparent opposition of 40 other states is legally irrelevant to whether DACA is valid exercise of federal executive authority.
20. What happens now? Oddly, the states’ threat isn’t consistent w/their request. They ask Trump to stop issuing DACA permits/renewals.
21. They’re *not* asking to rescind existing permits. So DACA folks would still be able to work legally until their 2-year permit expires.
It's just cruel to make him pay back $200,000 after all of these years.
No sane American actually wanted DACA. The only people talking it up are the brain-dead sycophants coming off the college/university assembly line. They want DACA because they were told to want it.
If this headline were taken via dictation, it would read:
The Trump Administration Has Announced the End of DACA -- Unless Congress Can Act T...bwhahahaha! No wait! I can get through this...
It's great how you can reduce the problem to a black-and-white issue that you can understand, and pretend that's all there is to the argument. You still have not offered a reason why this is unconstitutional, and you're very carefully avoiding the concept of prosecutorial discretion, which has been a part of common law since before the Constitution was written.
And yes, there is also such thing as the statute of limitations. The point of a justice system is not punishment but rehabilitation. If someone lives quietly for decades after a crime as a happy and productive member of society, isn't that the end goal anyway? And there is of course no moral requirement to obey an immoral law. And god forbid someone might stop to examine what this all might cost to enforce, both in dollars and in expanded police powers.
Would you mind finding some better arguments?
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
The guy that said Article 1 Section 1 was correct:
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
To illustrate the problem, let me suggest something Trump could do:
Trump wants Congress to pass a business tax cut. But why bother with Congress? The President could simply direct the IRS to issue rules telling companies to pay their taxes as if the rate were 15% instead of 35+%. Along with your business taxes, include a letter asking for a binding settlement. The IRS settles with delinquent taxpayers all the time, often for much less than the amount owed. Trump could direct the IRS to automatically settle for 15%. Why shouldn't he do this?
Because the US Constitution is to be obeyed, not worked around.
The President takes an oath to "faithfully" execute the office. Creating workaround schemes to circumvent Congress is executing the office in bad faith.
But any non-citizen allowed to stay in the country, via DACA should count against any kind of other limits or quotas we have for H1Bs, immigration, or other programs.
I really have two issues with the legislation and am happy Trump is opting to repeal it.
First and foremost is exactly what you stated: Obama's creating this the way he did overstepped his boundaries and it needs to be rescinded, in favor of Congress coming up with an acceptable alternative.
Second, just how many of these "DREAM" folks made any real effort towards becoming legal citizens after being granted this loophole to stay here? (I really don't know the answer to that question -- but unless someone can show evidence otherwise, I'm betting not a whole lot of them did much. They just assumed/hoped they were "good" since Obama gave them that legislative relief.) They should have realized this was likely only a temporary measure and didn't preclude them trying to become U.S. citizens if they wanted to stay here permanently.
I fail to see the problem here. The fact tech companies immediately chimed in upset suggests this was another illicit H1B backdoor stratagem.
Go ahead. Name another country that leaves its borders wide open and says come on in. Hell, try entering Mexico illegally and see how far you get. Demand that they do all of their government business in English and Spanish. Good luck.
I'm all for immigration as long as it's done legally and orderly. Letting in too many people and not allowing enough time for them to assimilate is asking for disaster.
Considering that certain Irishmen were instrumental in destroying America demographically through the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, I'd say such a demand would be an eminently reasonable one.
We already know the things required to solve these problems. Food, education & birth control.
Education and birth control may be counter to local sentiment and culture, and may be violently opposed. Good or bad, imposing such a huge change could be considered imperialistic and may come across as "Us white people need to save those brown/black people from themselves," and still ultimately require force to implement.
One does not simply establish rule of law (or a new set of laws), but you'd pretty much have to if you want to make these changes and feed people. Given recent examples, such an endeavor is a multi-decade commitment, because leaving too early risks leaving a power vacuum, possibly compounding the problem. It takes at least a couple generations to learn the process of running a democratic society. And what do we do if they keep voting in the same corrupt government over and over? Overthrow it and restore "democracy" each time? As Turkey has shown, that's not viable in the long run.
I'm eager to learn of any viable plan to bring these countries into the modern era without force, in any reasonable timescale. I'm very conflicted on the choice to use force in this way, but I believe it's necessary to accomplish the stated goals within one lifetime.
Otherwise you are just advocating lawbreaking.
I think this is the best possible solution. Give Congress 6 months to modify the law... otherwise enforce it.
If you are serious that you want and need DACA then get congress to MAKE IT LEGAL.
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
... the biggest ones being having a big enough of a young population to take care of our aging - this is to help deal with the baby boomers retiring which is projected to impact federal and state revenues significantly. Also, as all countries develop, the ones with the biggest populations will win. So if we want to continue to be a superpower (which is important even if we only want to be left alone), we need as many motivated young people as we can get. And taking non-criminal young folks (their parents broke immigration laws, but not the kids who were not old enough to make those decisions) who are motivated to go to school or serve in the military would help that. Finally, a vibrant economy requires people who are willing to work at all wage levels. Otherwise, the movement of jobs overseas will increase OR we have to cancel free trade agreements (which would result in a massive decrease in standard of living and be a tremendous shock to the system with mass unemployment and unpredictable results).
... and won't do anything. So these people will get deported. If we were to evaluate your opinion based on outcome, we would say that you are making a legal argument to get the outcome that you already want.
I don't know if it's 'right or wrong', but these Tech leaders should just keep their mouths shut. They off 10s of thousands of workers without batting an eyelash, where's their concern for the 'American Dream' then? Seriously, MS has 27 workers that may be affected, presume if they REALLY wanted to help they could provide them lawyers to have smoothed out the humps in getting citizenship or permanent residency status etc.
I truly wonder if these Tech leaders listen to themselves talk at all.
I guess you're saying that we can only do things serially. Then let's not give seniors their social security money when we should put that money into the military to first address the North Korean threat to our borders.
President Obama called this a temporary, stopgap measure when he announced it. He stated it wasn't amnesty, wasn't a path to citizenship - unfortunately, he left out the fact it also wasn't Constitutional.
Ken
Congress. Immigration is a Federal Congressional issue as has recently been ruled by the Supreme Court. So good, the new administration will end an unconstitutional program and put the ball back in Congress' hands, where it lawfully belongs.
If we wanted, we could invade Africa, one country at a time, kill all the warlords, take away all the guns and provide all the necessary items.
That's pretty much what colonialism did in Africa and it doesn't work. The local population resents being told what to do so it rebels, throws off the shackles of colonialism and goes about running the society it had before. I would not think I would ever have to teach that to an American!
The only difference between the US and Africa is that the US population was largely European and had different cultural values which resulted in a different society and very different outcomes. The moral of the story is that you can help and encourage countries to improve things but ultimately you cannot force them to.
You can keep your DACA
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
Seriously, these jerks have hired undocumented workers? Employing illegal immigrants is illegal, is it not?
If the US wants it as part of our Law...then congress should be the ones to enact it.
Now the question comes :
how does this work in the US ?
Is it necessary to repeal an act before being able to pass a law ?
Or in simpler term is it mandatory to stop the temporary measure, before putting a permanent change of law ?
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Well, the POTUS isn't particularly enthused about "faithfully executing" the law with respect to the convicted criminal, Sheriff Joe.
In fact, despite having no moral justification for his actions, he unilaterally pardoned a documented, federal criminal.
That's virtue signalling of the worst possible kind, front and center.
The rule of law in the USA has been bunk for decades, if it ever really existed in the first place.
Most USA laws seem to be applied arbitrarily and along race lines, and JB Sessions isn't the guy to change that either.
In immigration reform for years now. So why would anyone expect them to do Donald's dirty work? There's a better plan in place for the Dreamers than anything Congress would ever do: The policy Donald shut down. But Donald never passes on an opportunity to punch down, like the infantile bully he is, as well as to pander to his base.
In order to apply for DACA, immigrants had to be younger than 31 on June 15, 2012 and the average age of DACA beneficiaries is 25. These are not children but are income tax evaders.
Trump is aware that ending the dreamers act will create a lot of rage, anger and resentment. He does not want that rage dumped upon him so he passed the hot potato to congress. It is an all republican house and senate so if they say no then the rage will fall upon the republican party. So they have a motive to pass a law enabling the dreamers to stay. But if they pass the hot potato back to Trump then he can claim that he can not over ride the will of congress and deport the dreamers. As usual Trump could care less about the 800,000 dreamers, their relatives, friends and spouses. All he seeks is not to take the political hit that such a rat bastard policy will surely cause, The man would ruin millions of lives just to stroke his sick ego.
/. used to be a site, indeed a good site, that discussed technical and science matters.
Increasingly it is becoming just another political forum for incredibly unsophisticated ideas often originating in mom's basement.
Now don't get me wrong. The basement dwellers often have great technical and scientific insights. On politics not so much.
Please /. go back to your original purpose. This uninformed unsophisticated unaware political crap is getting tedious.
The President is a member of the Federal Government. Congress having neglected to solve a public issue, the President took such steps as he was lawfully allowed to do. Congress failed to forbid the actions Obama took, and had previously authorized him to take such steps. So no-good, the new administration is failing to resolve a problem that Congress will continue to fail to solve, and there's nothing anybody can do to change that.
Children that the average age is 26. He didn't kill it entirely, he gave it 6 months and anyone on it right now that means they really have 2 years before they have to leave. So he's actually doing what Obama wanted to do in the first place. Obama said he did the EO because Congress wouldn't act. Ok, now that we have a real president, he's going to hold their feet to the fire. So we should all be saying what a great Pres he is.
I agree, aepevirus, show me where in the US Constitution that the Executive Branch is disallowed prosecutorial discretion! Any more than the US Constitution gives the 2 major parties the right to exert Majority-Minority control over the arcane rules of the House and Senate.
Yes, each house of Congress can write it's own rules (and they supposedly agree to a new set of rules at the beginning of each newly-elected Congressional session) but where does it say that POLITICAL PARTIES have any say in what those rules should be?
In fact, it is only the long-time corruption of the self-written rules of each house that allows this perversion of the idea the each of the States should send representatives to speak for us at the Federal Government level. The roles of Majority and Minority leader, whips, etc, are all an invention of past corruptions of the US Constitution that have been extremely convenient for lazy politicians to feather their positions of corruption and power, and to give them political cover for avoiding their responsibilities for truly representing the interests of their direct constituencies in their own States.
This is what has allowed the perversion of the Electoral College system to allow a strong political party (which is an unconstitutional function of humanity's natural greed and corruption) to gerrymander the electoral districts as a means of securing a political PARTY's chokehold on power.
This is what comes from dumbing down the civic education of the US voter, as a result of the long-time pervasive neoconservative attack on public education in the States, which is essentially due to the desire of property owners to avoid paying property taxes on their rental properties, which, after all, is what pays for the poor's "free public education". This breakdown of the requirement of a democracy to have an educated and informed electorate is a key to how we have "evolved" politically into this swamp of corruption and graft at most, if not all, levels of government today.
An uneducated, uninformed electorate can not expect to control a democracy, and our politicians take full advantage of this fact. Property tax payers in the States are getting exactly the government that they've paid for!
PlaynBass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... UN 2015 report: Immigrant population
United States 14.3 % foreign born
Germany 14.9 % foreign born
Americans are ignorant of the world outside their backyards, partly cultural. Won't even check a wiki page before spouting off obvious nonsense as if it were gospel.
We've already seen a decrease in people wanting to come in since Trump was inaugurated, and an increase in people wanting to leave. Soon the Trump administration will need to follow the footsteps of their favorite fascists and start signing laws that restrict the movement of people who want to get out.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.