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In a Cashless World, You'd Better Pray the Power Never Goes Out (mises.org)
schwit1 quotes the Mises Institue: When Hurricane Maria knocked out power in Puerto Rico, residents there realized they were going to need physical cash — and a lot of it. Bloomberg reported that the Fed was forced to fly a planeload of cash to the Island to help avert disaster. "William Dudley, the New York Fed president, put the word out within minutes, and ultimately a jet loaded with an undisclosed amount of cash landed on the stricken island. [Business executives in Puerto Rico] described corporate clients' urgent requests for hundreds of thousands in cash to meet payrolls, and the challenge of finding enough armored cars to satisfy endless demand at ATMs... As early as the day after the storm, the Fed began working to get money onto the island."
For a time, unless one had a hoard of cash stored up in ones home, it was impossible to get cash at all. 85 percent of Puerto Rico is still without power... Bloomberg continues: "When some generator-powered ATMs finally opened, lines stretched hours long, with people camping out in beach chairs and holding umbrellas against the sun." In an earlier article from September 25, Bloomberg noted how, without cash, necessities were simply unavailable:
For a time, unless one had a hoard of cash stored up in ones home, it was impossible to get cash at all. 85 percent of Puerto Rico is still without power... Bloomberg continues: "When some generator-powered ATMs finally opened, lines stretched hours long, with people camping out in beach chairs and holding umbrellas against the sun." In an earlier article from September 25, Bloomberg noted how, without cash, necessities were simply unavailable:
"Cash only," said Abraham Lebron, the store manager standing guard at Supermax, a supermarket in San Juan's Plaza de las Armas. He was in a well-policed area, but admitted feeling like a sitting duck with so many bills on hand. "The system is down, so we can't process the cards. It's tough, but one finds a way to make it work."
The second you lose power, you're fucked. This is why cash is king, always has been, always will be.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
The fact is that the more tightly integrated our society become the more brittle it gets. Specialization is more efficient but it also means "no man is an island."
Skipping intermediary exchange mechanisms like cash and doing direct transfers between accounts is faster but it also means you can't conduct exchanges when the machines that handle the accounting are not available. With cash, and even paper checks, you pay me now and I have some reasonable assurance that the money will be available for my use some time in the future.
Here is the thing though. If we have another 3-7 day blackout like the 2003 one, cash and checks will let everyone muddle thru. Where as all electronic payments being the only means would basically cause the economy to grind to a halt. If the mainland US experienced devastation like Puerto Rico just did and it was national not regional. I don't know super volcano, DPRK EMP delivery, some kind of freak mega storm, than nobody smart is going to be interested in cash!
Face it we would NOT come back from those events as a nation. No matter how big government gets there is no way a coordinated response could be manged on that scale, which means people would have to take matters entirely into their own hands. At that point its barter system at best and that is assuming local leadership/law enforcement can keep some kind of order. I actually think there is a possibility that would occur in a lot places. I suspect most sensible folks would realize that our survival is best served by at least regional cooperation. On the other hand I can see things going pretty mad max too.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Since when you get to a situation where you don't have any choice anymore but cash then coins are the best alternative. It's tough to get change from the shop keepers if the power goes out.
But also realize that shops can't even do anything when the power goes out because everything has barcodes, a carton of milk and a loaf of bread will be impossible to buy.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Electricity is what keeps the old rods in the nuclear power plants from exploding, it keeps my tap water clean, it provides life support at the hospitals, etc.
So my lack of cash would be the LEAST of my worries.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Same situation applies to internet connectivity. I live in a smallish (6000) town, and about once a year, some knucklehead will dig without calling and cut the main fiber line, knocking at least half the county offline. At which point, all businesses become cash only, resulting in an embarrassing number of angry people blaming retailers for 'not having a backup' (to a main trunk line?). Hilariously, a few atm's in town won't even work in this situation, because the apparently phone home to confirm transactions. About a business day later, its fixed, but it sure is an uncomfortable reminder how dependent we've become on electronic money.
I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
The second you lose power, you're fucked unless you already have cash on hand and until superinflation happens it which case it's only worth something as toilet paper. That's why gold doubloon is king, always has been, always will be.
#DeleteFacebook
So... they were connected to generator-powered networks?
#DeleteFacebook
Has nobody seen Home Alone 2? Using electricity to process a CC purchase is relatively new. This is a solved problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The problem is not with credit cards, but incompetent cashiers and owners who cannot handle changing situations.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
>"In a Cashless World, You'd Better Pray the Power Never Goes Out"
Or malware. Or a network problem. Or ID theft puts a freeze on your accounts. Or someone maliciously attacks your records. Or your device/card/whatever dies for some reason. Or you need to transact with someone who just doesn't have the necessary technology.
In a cashless world, you also give up every last bit of privacy left, because you can neither sell nor buy without the mark of the b..... I mean, without the tools and permission of the government and big business. Everything you buy and sell will be recorded and available for review immediately and any time in the future- revealing not only what you buy, but from whom, when, and where you have been. It also makes it easier for someone to tamper with those records to assist in framing you.
Don't be quick to give allow cash to disappear, you might regret it and there will be no going back.
Ask yourself this: Who benefits from a "cashless" world? Yeah, the Barkers make hoopla about the convenience and security of the magic plastic, butt, you totally give away your freedom when the Digital Panopticon gets built and believe me, taking away anonymous transactions is very much an integral part of the prison we are ourselves paying to be built. We should be fighting this at every turn...
Cash registers need electricity, and cashiers won't do transactions if they're not working.
Maybe you could go to a yard sale or something?
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Silver coins have small enough value to be useful in small transactions. Heck pure copper coins might even be useful.
What about the Amazon shut-ins? I've read plenty of people on this very website, who state that they hate interacting with other people, and they only order from Amazon. What are those malcontents going to do without power? They're certainly not going to a store.
I don't respond to AC's.
A lot of propositions like this really only benefit the corporations behind them. You would be wise to always look deeper when such a drastic shift in *anything* is proposed. Very seldom are motivations as humanitarian and far thinking as CEOs would have you believe.
Visa/Mastercard get 2.5% of the ENTIRE ECONOMY in a cashless world. People who don't use cash don't think about this and apparently don't care.
I don't respond to AC's.
Use crypto and opendime - transact with Bitcoin or Litecoin offline.
Just one day ago my credit union suffered a comm outage of some kind (they are very secretive about it).
As a result, none of their cards would work (Debit or Credit). I had to leave a bunch of groceries at the check out stand and looked like an idiot.
I ended up getting cash from the local branch so I could get groceries.
But, the power was on!
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Back before ATM's and the Internet, banks would run out of cash in times of unexpected demand. And in a disaster situation, people sure as hell aren't making bank deposits. The situation would have been a little better back then than it is now with 'electronic money', but probably not a lot. There still would have been a shortage of the means to exchange 'abstractions of value'.
Arguably, we COULD have it better today, with sufficient backup and redundancy - generators and batteries, radio data links, etc. - but haven't invested enough to make it happen. Then again, given a few massive EMP's, all bets are off.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
It just goes to show that...
Cash is still king.
Grass is keen.
Ass is queen.
This space unintentionally left blank.
and solving our power grid problems we air drop cash? Also, one of the first things you do after a disaster is restore power, and if you haven't even done that you shouldn't be talking about money. We should just be sending food, water and medicine, not cash. Then get the power back up and _then_ we can start talking about fixing up the economy.
At the risk of getting down modded into oblivion I'll say this: This is less a real problem and more a symptom of the current ruling party not providing aid to Puerto Rico (I'll leave the reasons up to everybody's imaginations).
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ive been thinking that we have too complicated an infrastructure for our world, in which too many structures need to be running for everything to work. the default infrastructure should not require so much power, maintenance, and expertise. it sets us up for failure. its an existential question: when does our interlocking technical systems become so removed from the naturally occuring infrastructure of the natural world, that we are at too great a risk from catastrophic or unpredictable failures? nuclear power plants are an example of this, as are airplanes in flight, the internet, oh, and our nuclear triad, which can be launched on the word of one person, but that person can gain the power and have no earthly idea what he now wields. huge flaw in our system to allow a completely dangerous person to be able to launch it.
I feel very badly and have donated money and non-perishable goods. I am appalled that Puerto Ricans are being treated as a second class citizens. Donald Trump even believes that Puerto Rico is foreign country and does not deserve our help. Sadly, the situation in Puerto Rico is a glimpse into what society would look like in a post-apocalyptic world. This is our chance to do right by PR and develop plans to manage disasters. We still have not learned from Katrina, Rita, and even Sandy. The aftermath of Katrina and Rita turned thriving areas into scenes right out of disaster films. Our government is too busy fighting itself and this is evident in the utter callousness in which Donald Trump threw a roll of paper towels. I believe he truly thinks a few roles of Bounty will solve anything.
I work for a company who is in the cashless business. Can't say anymore other than it amazes me how many people don't carry cash and coin. Unreal. Only the people older than dirt really seem to be most prepared.
Next time to steal a diamond of such value, make sure you have an escape plan ;)
I tend to rant.
the wealthy places in PR (mostly tourist spots and a few odds/ends neighborhoods of the rulers) have already recovered and have electricity, water, food, etc, etc. We're air dropping cash for those people. We took care of the well to do. We always do.
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Which is why it pays to...
a, always have multiple cards from multiple suppliers (multiple banks as well as multiple types of card visa/amex/etc)
b, always carry enough cash for emergencies
Although the laws vary from place to place... If a place claims to accept cards, and then fails to do so through no fault of yours, who's liable?
What if you've already consumed the goods (eg in a restaurant, or already pumped some gas) and then their card machine is faulty?
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Dont worry about power and bank still manages to mess up communication/system and your out of luck trying to pay croceries at shop.
speaking as someone with a raging drug addiction that can't always (legally) come up with enough cash to feed it, please always carry extra in case I need some I will take it
Quickly becomes a small business opportunity.
Speaking as someone with a raging gun addiction who CAN always feed it, molon labe.
In my experience, Canada, when the power is out businesses cannot even sell you anything with cash as they cannot put a transaction through their system, scan the price, or calculate the total and tax without it.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Is many of you talking down guns have never been through a natural disaster where the power is out for a while and people are reverting to their less cordial selves and going all looter for supplies.
Gas is a primary target as no power equates to no operating pumps. Generators are also priority targets.
Food, water, medicine and pretty much whatever they can get their hands on round out the list.
Being prepared means keeping enough cash, food, water and supplies for at least a month.
The gun ensures your supplies stay with you, instead of the thugs who are out looting just because they can.
why not stop tying basic survival to whether you've got cash on hand? Why don't we stop fighting among ourselves (while the rich and powerful take 50-60% of everything) and actually help people out when disaster strikes instead of blaming them? I know, I know, the answer is literally in the last sentence I wrote, but a man can dream can't he?
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Last time my area was without power people wanted food, generators, inverters, and gasoline not cash. We knew cash wasn't dead and buried obviously, as it was a localized tornado, but nobody really was all that interested in paper money compared to things they immediately needed.
Now you know what happened to those people who disappeared over the years.
Pray it doesn't happen to you!
And a well-preserved shotgun shell will let you defend your cans of beans, assuming you have a shotgun to shoot it out of.
Oops. No shotgun, but a P8 and a 7mm deer rifle would suffice as well. And on top of that, the rifle would be useful for acquiring fresh meat from the local deer if the situation ever got to the point where backup food sources need to be tapped into in spite of fish and game laws.
I love all the so-called "survivalists" who think they're going to hunt and support themselves with all their stupid guns.
Do you have any idea how long you and yours would be able to subsist if you had to switch from mass-produced food to foraging and hunting, considering that's what everyone else would be doing too? There are more of you than there are of deer, and the Rule of Ten (see Malthus, Thomas, Dr.,) hasn't gone anywhere.
All the moron assholes with their guns would hunt the remaining deer populations to extinction in a month, and then where the fuck are you?
Eating shit, along with everyone else. Then starving to death. Along with everyone else.
But as an added bonus, I suppose you can use the guns on starving people, then eat them. Here's the most likely timeline of what happens after the collapse of society, that is, the end of human civilization as we know it, as viewed from the day it collapses:
Day 0: society collapses
Day 10-20: deer run out (all dead, eaten or being dried out to make delicious deer jerky)
Day 20-30: 90+% of humanity exhausts their supplies and caches of canned/packaged foods.
Day 31: (give or take,) people resort to cannibalism.
Day 60: human population now less than 10% what it was two months ago.
Day 90: remaining humans largely able to survive as waves of disease from all the decomposing corpses cease being virulent
Day 120: remaining nucleus of human civilization finally decides to do something about guns.
Year 1: first babies conceived AFTER collapse of human civilization being born. Infant mortality rate somewhere around 80+%
Year 10: human population now less than 1% what it was 10 years ago.
Year 100: total number of languages spoken now less than a dozen.
Year 1000: human population starts to recover, (meaning sails north of a billion again,) and this time, they're not all retarded like they are mostly today*.
* J/K, LOL they're still all retards, which means this cycle will repeat again and again until the first of A, the end of time, or B, humanity either manages to wipe itself out finally, or some cosmic event does it for us.
What if you've already consumed the goods (eg in a restaurant, or already pumped some gas) and then their card machine is faulty?
The Merchant agreement with the credit card companies that allows use of the Visa or Mastercard logo Requires the merchant to use backup methods such as: resort to calling in through the Voice Authorization Center or take a Card Imprint Using a manual credit card imprinting machine instead.
Fucking-a, next time I see a "system is down, cash only" sign, I'm going to get out and urinate on the sign.
As for cash always being king, meh. There are grids in the world where this wouldn't happen as easily.
Best sarcasm battle on Slashdot!
Yeah but this AC could kick both there asses, gun or not. I am ACITG infinity+1
In the case of PR, it was a certain level incompetence and lack of humility that resulted in the entire island having no redundant power or communication. This is the kind of incompetence expected from Syria or Lebanon, where power frequently goes out and neighbors steal yours.
If you keep $200 in 1 dollar bills at home you should be fine. 200 bucks isn't too much to keep around, but will get you through a few days. If you keep larger denominations, you risk a person not having change. If the red cross is selling bottle water or sandwiches for a buck or two, you don't want to let them keep your 5 or 20.
(my captcha is "deposits")
95% of the world's wealth is already digital, only 5% is in paper or commodities. paper is just a variable value scrip. in emergencies you simply create the IOU's nothing mystical or magical about cash or gold except that for every conventional credit transaction about 5 intervening companies between you and the seller rake off a share of the value. not so with the digital currencies.
molon labe? Did you misspell something? Moron labia? Melon label? Melon lab?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=molon+lab...
what do you think runs the power grid ? most of us call it a computer. what does it take to run a computer ? most of us call it power.
There are no laws surrounding credit cards, there are agreements with the card systems. They state you have to accept the cards and process them offline, you know, the way they did it âoeback thenâ with the sliding thing and the copy paper. You can call the 1800 number on a card to check for available balance.
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What we need to do in embed a digital device into person to uniquely identify them. Then allow that device to store your credit card and financial information.
Then for the readers at the store, allow a battery mode, and provide a standard solar panel for charging.
Then when the power is off stores can scan/photo you(hold your hand next to your face) and you can make limited purchases. When the power comes one and network is reestablished they upload. The store is protected since the device is embedded and they has your face the government will go after you for the stealing and with us requiring that embedded device to make purchases you would also be easy to track down.
Meh...Getting milk and dog food isn't really an emergency.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Snake Plissken is coming for your money.
sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
I was in Dawson City, YT in 2011 when the only communication line when down. We used all our Canadian and US cash to buy enough gas to get to the next town which was 200 miles away.
I had over $2,000 in cash when I went back to 2016.
As long as you don't mind your dogs killing you for food, that is.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
You discounting the number of people killed in riots, killed by other for various supplied, killed by disease , or broken bones, or just plain stupidity. Not to mention the fires that aren't put out etc. in case of a true global catastrophe that cuts the power there would be a dramatic decrease in human population especially around cities.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
At times it pays to google a new word or phrase, before commenting.
In July 2016, where I live had a 5.5 hour power outage, which turned us in to a ghost town. Naturally, you'd take cash to the store to buy things except no stores, fuel pumps, restaurants, hotels, coffee shops, internet services, had power. It is very easy to actually know who did have emergency generators: phone company, 911, hospital, & mill. Almost everyone here has electric appliances for their business, including restaurants and those that don't, most people pay with plastic or use an electronic register... IMHO, my town needs to have a serious discussion about this lack of services when the power goes out as this is not the first time this has happened nor will it be the last time.
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Ever heard of a "back up"?