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Call of Duty Gaming Community Points To 'Swatting' In Wichita Police Shooting (dailydot.com)
schwit1 shares a report from The Daily Dot: A man was killed by police Thursday night in Wichita, Kansas, when officers responded to a false report of a hostage situation. The online gaming community is saying the dead man was the victim of a swatting prank, where trolls call in a fake emergency and force SWAT teams to descend on a target's house. If that's true, this would be the first reported swatting-related death. Wichita deputy police chief Troy Livingston told the Wichita Eagle that police were responding to a report that a man fighting with his parents had accidentally shot his dad in the head and was holding his mom, brother and sister hostage. When police arrived, "A male came to the front door," Livingston told the Eagle. "As he came to the front door, one of our officers discharged his weapon." The man at the door was identified by the Eagle as 28-year-old Andrew Finch. Finch's mother told reporters "he was not a gamer," but the online Call of Duty community claims his death was the result of a gamer feud which Finch may not have even been a part of.
UPDATE: The New York Daily News reports police in Los Angeles have now arrested 25-year-old gamer Tyler Barriss, who the paper describes as "an alleged serial 'prankster'..."
"Barriss gave cops Finch's address, mistakenly believing it belonged to a person he had feuded with over a $1 or $2 Call of Duty wager."
UPDATE: The New York Daily News reports police in Los Angeles have now arrested 25-year-old gamer Tyler Barriss, who the paper describes as "an alleged serial 'prankster'..."
"Barriss gave cops Finch's address, mistakenly believing it belonged to a person he had feuded with over a $1 or $2 Call of Duty wager."
To make it clear, the man who was shot by police was not the intended victim of the swatting, and had nothing to do with either party. The police just rolled in and picked off the first guy they saw.
I noticed in the reuters report the following :
“As the incident unfolded, a 28-year-old male opened the front screen door and stood in the doorway or just outside that doorway,” he said. “Officers gave him several verbal commands to put his hands up and walk towards them.”
A police officer opened fire, shooting once, after the man quickly raised his hands and appeared to point a weapon at the officers, Livingston said.
I wonder if any body / dash cams were working...
Link :
https://www.reuters.com/articl...
...but the online Call of Duty community claims his death was the result of a gamer feud which Finch may not have even been a part of.
Serously? They called a heavily armed Swat team of trigger happy American cops on the wrong guy over a computer game feud? Every time I think we have reached peak stupid somebody knocks from above.
Whoever made the call, as well as the officers who couldn't be bothered to Not shoot someone.
With their record, does anyone actually Call the police anymore for real calls anymore?
Seems like when people call for service, they're calling to be murdered...
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
So the man at the door might be a hostage, which the police knew, were present. This is a total lack of concern for other people in the apartment.
We live in a sick fucking world.
Your reasoning is that the swatter dumbass would stop being an idiot if he played golf? I doubt that.
I live in the UK and, I just don't hear of stuff like this happening regularly (police shooting people coming to the door) when guns are involved. I don't understand why it's a problem over there.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Amazingly, there won't be any riots, nor TVs stolen from stores that are broken into during the riots.
I wonder if any body / dash cams were working...
Given that the linked article includes body cam video, I'm going to guess the answer is "yes".
Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong
Yet another example of why I am happily building a long term position in axon stock.
Ah, I only read the reuters article, so missed that.
Just like that? Without any provocation?
Only in America... Your cops are awful.
The swatter is 25 yo
A simple phone call is enough for the police to believe there is hostage and murder happening??
Seriously?
Hey . Police! There is hostages in the White House!!
Hey, we don't even RTFA! You want us to watch the f-ing article too now?!!
I'm always afraid that this might happen to me. Since my 10+ year old side business is a matter of public record, and third-party information brokers have scattered my personal information far and wide, my dedicated band of trolls on Slashdot (one person with a copy-&-paste personality disorder and a few hanger ons) have made repeated references to where I live. Sometimes even taunting me with the wrong floor plan for my apartment.
I can't view it because it uses some 20-year-old technology called flash instead of a real <video> tag
By what WITCHCRAFT doest thou know yonder article contents?
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I'd say at minimum they need to try to find the (maybe the FBI/NSA can use their call database to identify who it was...) persons that called in, and then go after them for murder (maybe not 1st degree, but at least 2nd degree), and then for the police, I'd say they need to think about their techniques and send people through retaining. In this case, I'm not sure I'd go after the police officer for murder, but possibly 'wrongful discharge' or not 'following orders', assuming the officer in charge didn't tell them to 'shot first, ask questions later'. If the officer in charge didn't say that then, well maybe the officer in charge, shouldn't be the officer in charge.
Unfortunately these cases are probably hard to prosecute, because they're across jurisdictions, and the police are setup to deal with these cases effectively. But on the other side, we don't want to a surveillance state, I'm sure there's enough evidence from chat room logs, and phone call logs to correlate a story. Convincing a jury might also be hard also, because a lot of it could be countered (as a lot of it could also be faked easily.)
1. When the cops tell you to do something, you do it. The place to argue is in court, not when confronted with (a) police officer(s). The dead guy would probably have been fine if he did this (excluding a ND by the cops).
Even the cops aren't saying that he did anything wrong. Their statement is literally that he came to the door and one of the officers shot him. You're a cop sucker.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The guy put his hands up when told to. Apparently he did it too fast, which looks as though "he's got a gun". This attitude of "cops should be treated like kings", which is essentially what you're arguing, is the problem here. Cops aren't soldiers. If the person is not complying, that is not a reason for killing them.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
That is how I would call it. Using the police as a weapon to kill an adversary, or in this case, a standers by. I would say its first degree since it took some planning.
why is this crack getting mod points?? u tards
The person came to the door and the police shot him.
Neither of your two points are about police who shot a person that didn't have a gun. Perhaps that is normal in your country, but something like that would happen in my country only if the police was murdering someone, which has rarely if ever happened as far as I know.
Even if the person is dangerous, why doesn't the police start by shooting into the legs? Simple legshot is usually enough to take down any person.
So you're saying, if I'm at home and there's a knock on the door, and a guy in a police uniform there tells me to do something, and I ask "why?", that justifies me being shot dead on the spot?
I am SO happy I do not live in a country where that is even a remote possibility. And I fear for people like you who consider that perfectly normal, even expected.
Press release of 911 call and what happended:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
It sounds like an officer that had a bad point of view shot the victim when he saw the victim's hands go down then up again.
What I find disturbing is your actions must look non-aggressive from all angles when dealing with multiple officers. Even if the officer you are directly engaged with sees no sign of danger, the officer behind you with a bad perspective can assume the worst case scenario with less information/visibility.
"1. When the cops tell you to do something, you do it. The place to argue is in court, not when confronted with (a) police officer(s). The dead guy would probably have been fine if he did this (excluding a ND by the cops)."
The problem is that somebody having the misfortune to find themselves in this situation doesn't have the luxury of taking a few seconds to come to the realization that "I'm the center of attention here". And god help them if they are hard of hearing or they start to raise their hands and someone interprets it as an effort to draw a gun.
Two points:
1. When the cops tell you to do something, you do it. The place to argue is in court, not when confronted with (a) police officer(s). The dead guy would probably have been fine if he did this (excluding a ND by the cops).
Erm, he did. He answered the door, from the body cam video, he raised his hands when told to.
The caller ID thing is neither here nor there, the phone company will record the actual caller for billing purposes. Finding the real source number will be no problem.
But if the police try and pin this entirely on the prankster, that would be a travesty of justice. The police are completely culpable here, the officer who shot was not fit to carry a weapon.
Either way for the call to go through, the phone company would know exactly who actually called you every single time.
Almost impossible to guarantee this. I have VOIP. It's only protected by a password. If someone manages to break into my home network and grab the password, they can add extra phone devices, and make outside calls.
Now, because your law guarantees real traceability, the police are going in even more trigger happy, because they know for sure they've got the right place.
Two points:
1. When the cops tell you to do something, you do it. The place to argue is in court, not when confronted with (a) police officer(s).
Uh huh. Just like this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuooBcXTFu8
Now pull the other one. Then wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe go to youtube and search for police beatings. I dare say half of them are of people doing what the cops told them to do. All is not well in America.
I'm not sure what justifies the need for body cameras more, the death of an innocent man, or the Slashdot comments being posted here.
Comments being posted here make the SWAT guy look like a monk. Talk about trigger-happy.
Let's start with the government, just to show good faith.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
The police just shot a completely innocent person and are trying to blame this on swatting and deflect attention from themselves. The media is happily helping them. US police officers are very jumpy, with some justification, but I suspect the training and the way the entire situation was handled was done incorrectly. The officer that fired the shot is at fault, but I will bet that the entire chain of communication escalated the threat and down played the fact that it was just a call.
If you have never had a non-friendly interaction with the police and the police suddenly tell you to do something, you aren't going to do it. You are going to wonder what is going on. It's perfectly reasonable for Finch to not raise his hands. It's likely a situation he ever thought he would be in.
In some places in the USA blacks are taught how to interact with the police to avoid being shot. Maybe they need to extend that training to visitors and the general population.
I'm a white Canadian. I've twice had American police officers reach and hold their guns (not point) when interacting with them. Once at a traffic stop when I was looking for something the officer asked for and once when a black friend and I ran up to a police car to ask for directions. My youngest son at 9, also had an ill advised interaction with a SWAT team. As a frequent visitor to the USA, a couple hours learning how to interact with the US police would definitely have been useful.
1. In cases where people riot over a police shooting, the person shot is usually not complying with police orders. Rule 1: do what the person with a gun says.
2. The issue here is that people are swatting, not that the swat team shot someone. Those teams are brought into the most volatile situations and must be on a hair trigger if they want to go home each night. Because of this, if they think they see a gun, you will be shot. Rule 2: if a swat team orders you to put your hands up, do it slowly and deliberately.
The real issue here is swatting. This is not a prank. It has always been deadly and it is only luck that nobody has been shot until now. I hope they catch the person that did this and put him/her in prison for a long time.
BULLSHIT
In this case, they had no verified information that they were actually in a volatile situation, and they shot a guy from 200 feet away without verifying he was armed.
The JOB of the police is to PROTECT people, not create a "volatile situation" on their own simply because some jackass gave them bad information.
They didn't even bother to verify the information they were given.
Some guy walks out onto his porch, and they shoot him from 200 feet away. Didn't bother to verify if he was armed - they were TOO FUCKING FAR AWAY TO DO THAT.
The fact that "swatting" is even possible means the police are TOO READY to be all butch.
Government in the US is out of control - literally.
Don't watch that article! It turned me into a newt!
#DeleteFacebook
You must be a police officer. Fuck you.
The guy who called the police should be charged with:
* felony version of filing a false police report.
* if the false police report is a felony, then they can charge him with felony murder of the innocent victim.
* attempted murder (by cop) of the guy he tried to swat.
The police officer who fired the shot should be charged with:
* 2nd degree murder
This and the case where the police officer got off after murdering the unarmed drunk pest control guy who had a pellet rifle in his hotel room case needs to change the rules of engagement for police: "I thought he was going for a weapon" should not be a legal defense against 2nd degree murder.
Cops and soldiers become cops and soldiers because they want to be given the chance to kill another human being and get away with it. Bottom line, this is the motivation. They live for they day they finally get to put all their "serving and protecting" training into gunning done another unarmed innocent human being and then walk away and keep their job. All those war heroes? Murderers. Murderers for "our" cause so it's supposedly justified but nothing more than murderers. Murders with badges, uniforms and guns; thank goodness we defeated the Nazi's and created a "free" world.
Actually making a false report is a crime.
Go watch the video of the police outright murdering someone from 150 away without any warning or verification then come back and tell us again. Itâ(TM)s clear you havenâ(TM)t read the witness accounts or watched the police body cam footage.
There's no evidence that the victim didn't do what the cops asked.
There's no evidence that the victim argued with cops.
John Crawford III would agree with you. Honest.
Appreciate the sarcasm, but you do realize that / dot captures your IP address and you just admitted to committing a crime right? Means: Phone, Motive: Because he's your boss, Opportunity: April 1st...specifics isn't "fake". Just tryin to look out for you.
Well if this guy, who was an uninvolved 3rd party, was juggling, then they would have just shot him because they "suspected he was tossing hand grenades".
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
The guy put his hands up when told to. Apparently he did it too fast, which looks as though "he's got a gun". This attitude of "cops should be treated like kings", which is essentially what you're arguing, is the problem here. Cops aren't soldiers. If the person is not complying, that is not a reason for killing them.
Yet sadly they are being armed with ex-military equipment*. I have no idea why a podunk police force up the road from me, and in a rural area has need of a mine-proof vehicle (which they proudly showed off at the state fair)
* and while the current POTUS might think this is a good thing, it has been going on for a while now.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Thursday night Wichita police killed Andrew Finch after responding to a call claiming a man at his address had shot someone and was holding others hostage. That call was a hoax, commonly referred to as "swatting," and in this case, it's apparently linked to a Call of Duty match, where one player passed a fake address to another before someone called the police to it. Now NBC News reports that police in Los Angeles have arrested 25-year-old Tyler Barriss, who is believed to have made the call inciting the incident.
https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/30/lapd-arrest-swatting-wichita/
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/12/kansas-man-killed-in-swatting-attack/
Nope, the person who pulled the trigger is the murderer. And you're a boot-licking swine.
He didn't SWAT himself you dumb fuck.
Friend, I hope dearly for your enlightenment.
Slashdot has been a shit-show from day one. And I say this as a former five-digit account.
Bullshit. Cops regularly order people to do things they have no right to insist upon, and regularly lie to the public, as they believe that since the Supreme Court said they can lie to a suspect that it is their job to lie to everyone all the time to make their job easier. All you are doing is blaming the victim. It is the cop at fault here, and there is *zero* fault on the part of the deceased.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
The headline calls this a PRANK? No, a prank doesn't end up with a dead body....
It's what founded your country, innit?
The LAPD took Tyler Barriss of Los Angeles into custody in that city on Friday afternoon, on a fugitive warrant stemming from the Thursday evening incident in Kansas, a spokesman for the Los Angeles Police Department said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-arrest-man-suspected-swatting-preceded-deadly-police-shooting-n833576
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
The cops were 50+ yards away from the front porch.
"A police officer opened fire, shooting once, after the man quickly raised his hands and appeared to point a weapon at the officers"
Bullshit. Unless that officer was using a pair of binoculars. Stupid, panicky pigs.
Douche bags being reckless with other people's lives
Criminals thinking that what they did isn't that bad.
Militarized Cops - sure of their own righteous AND the villany of their target - over-reacting and shooting an innocent man
The various businesses saying "it's not our problem" rather than preventing anonymous calls to police/spoofed phone numbers.
People going "how horrible", but not really objecting or demanding action, because of how rare it is.
Neither political party taking appropriate steps to prevent this from happening again, because hey, no one really demanded action.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
He was probably a Call of Duty player.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Gun law is strange.
If you're using lethal force in the US, you need to shoot to kill. Shooting someone with any intent except to kill is going to land you in hot water.
And because they didn’t make an arrest at the scene, they get to steal everyone’s stuff.
After watching the body cam, it's a bit pathetic. Maybe there should be better quality cameras on the dash. I think I've had better quality from 10year old cameras, if the intention is to show that the criminals are misbehaving, this quality really lets the police down.
Here's the link from TFA:
http://www.kansas.com/news/loc...
Why UNIX?
2. The issue here is that people are swatting, not that the swat team shot someone
Strange, I think they're both issues.
I mean, someone just got killed for the horrendous crime of answering the door and raising his hands when instructed by the police.
Rule 1: do what the person with a gun says.
Looks like that just isn't good enough in the US. Rule 0: Be the one with a gun, and tell the police to send someone unarmed in to arrest you peacefully.
Nope. The officer is the murderer. He had some information - UNVERIFIED so. Not from a trustable source. Idiots trolling cops is a fact of life, hence the need to check. Such as a megaphone and "you are surrounded, come out with hands over your heads." Most people will obey, solving swatting cases easily.
Where I live, swatting fails because they check where you're calling from. If youre a kilometer away or much more, they sarcastically ask why you think you know what happens elsewhere.
From the linked bodycam footage, it does look like the guy lowered his raised hands, grabbed a gun and aimed it at the police. Not that that excuses what followed.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192111974.html
The available videos at the links show a pretty good synopsis of this bad situation.
The PD released the 911 call and a short clip of the shooting from one of many body cams.
The guy was unarmed, likely confused, and only responding imperfectly to commands. (In other words, he seemed a normal human.)
It will take some careful analysis to figure out what commands were given and what responses happened.
There are 2 BIG wrongs here. The bogus phone call and the shooting.
The PD is focusing the spin on the bogus call.
The stated logic is that the shooting would not have happened if the call had not happened and so they had not showed up.
That is true, but this ignores that this also would not have happened if the cop had not fired at an unarmed, confused man.
The cops have a hard job to stay alive and protect and serve.
The job is hard because if requires a constant choice of how much risk to take.
It is too early to Monday morning quarterback this, but the investigation needs to address if they had the right balance of risk.
The cops appear to have been across the street behind cars.
It's not clear if they had vests on.
Even if the guy had had a gun, it might have been an acceptable risk to let him get off the first shot.
Clearly, this needs to get the folks that made the call.
But the police need to be held accountable also.
This falls to the unfortunate officer that fired and the unfortunate person in charge of setting up the geometry.
Aside from the spin, the PD seems open in what they are doing.
I would let them handle it, but would expect to see a gun and command timeout or a really better excuse come out.
The JOB of the police is to PROTECT people
If only that were actually true...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
Police are shit. Gamers are shit.
We've been telling you this for years.
You are welcome on my lawn.
That.. No law enforcement officers are allowed to use their firearm unless fired upon first?
Of course it takes a bit more bravery, but.. isn't that what we want from our emergency services?
Where I live, swatting fails because they check where you're calling from. If youre a kilometer away or much more, they sarcastically ask why you think you know what happens elsewhere.
First of all, everyone knows that it's the Shine that lets you know whats going on so far away. Secondly, a good Swatter would use a VOIP system that lets him put whatever caller-id info he wants. He'll put the victim's number and address into the E911 fields.
why doesn't the police start by shooting into the legs? Simple legshot is usually enough to take down any person.
Because shooting at someone that doesn't want to be shot is difficult. So you aim at the centre of the target, the largest mass, and minimise the chances of missing entirely.
If you have time to aim for the legs you're not in sufficient danger to justify taking the shot anyway.
The issue here is that people are swatting, not that the swat team shot someone.
And the award for the most asinine comment of the day goes to: AC (That AC, boy he's really racking up the awards folks).
Tell that to the man's family. An innocent man was shot in the head for absolutely no reason.
SWATing should be a felony if it's not already
militarization of our police is a a much larger problem
But an innocent man was shot in the fucking head for no reason, and SWATing and trigger happy special ops wannabe police officers led to it.
1. When the cops tell you to do something, you do it. The place to argue is in court, not when confronted with (a) police officer(s). The dead guy would probably have been fine if he did this (excluding a ND by the cops).
Blow many cops lately? Yes when a gun is pointed at you it's not wise to argue, but you're obfuscating the real issue here: police need to learn restraint. And the place to argue THAT is right here and now, and in the courts, and everywhere else. So wipe that white stuff off your chin and get in the game.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Swat guys will not ring the door before taking sufficient cover, or else they are doing it wrong. And if they have decent cover, they have absolutely no business being on a hair trigger, shooting when they think the guy might be reaching for a gun.
Also: police work isn't even in the top 10 of most dangerous professions, so there's not that much call in general to shoot first before assessing the situation when dealing with a CIVILIAN (not a "perp", not a criminal, bt a suspect at best). Or perhaps being a cop in the USA isn't all that dangerous because they are so trigger happy. Don't get me wrong, being a cop is a difficult job and I have a lot of respect for the people who put themselves on the line every day. But being a cop, putting yourself on the line means just that: you take risks in order to protect the populace. If you are dealing with a member of the public, their safety comes first, not yours. Be careful but keep the damn gun holstered until there is a reason to draw it... like they do in normal countries.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
SWAT teams are used to dealing with people who have had SWAT called on them in the past. When the guy who opens the door to them has never faced police action before, blazing lights and barked orders are just going to be confusing. They WILL find some excuse to shoot you.
Yet sadly they are being armed with ex-military equipment*. I have no idea why a podunk police force up the road from me, and in a rural area has need of a mine-proof vehicle
They didn’t need it. They could buy one with the cash they can steal from random people in traffic stops, so they did.
And so did a buddy of mine. Both white. Both in relatively affluent areas. Both times for absolutely no good reason (there was no justification for them pulling me or him over and no tickets issued). Neither of those areas ever had a shooting happen towards a police officer. And, this was many years ago, like 30 years. The cop had his firearm pointed at my head from behind me while I was talking to the another police officer through the window. So, I am sure I was quite close to getting killed had I made a move that they considered 'threatening'. Once you have an experience like that you will never forget it and you won't spout your mouth off as 'police are justified' and all that bullshit. So, cops have always been inclined to pull their weapons for no good reason. You know the saying, 'If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail?'. Well, I think that is the main problem here. Police are trained to resolve issues through force and that's what they know how to do so they do it. I know my stories are anecdotal but they have created a deep mistrust of police and most authoritarian symbols which I make sure to convey to anyone who will listen.
From the linked bodycam footage, it does look like the guy lowered his raised hands, grabbed a gun and aimed it at the police. Not that that excuses what followed.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192111974.html
Really???!!?!? You can see a gun in that morass of badly lit video? And where was said gun *after* the shooting? Because if he had a gun the police would have been happily showing it off.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Police in the US receive days worth of weapons training with refresher courses.
And minutes worth of de-escalation training if any.
So in a crisis situation, how do they react?
"If shooter games lead to real-life death, it’s time to hit pause"
Let's be clear on one thing here. "Shooter games" didn't lead to this death, out of control killer police lead to this person's death. Answering your own door shouldn't be a capital offense, but getting gunned down like that by a wannabe operator really should be.
The person who is responsible for this hoax is guilty of mischief. Charge him for wasting police time and resources, making a false report (which ought to be a fairly serious charge) and send him a bill for all of the police and EMS services that were used in this incident. He's a fucking tool but he's not a murderer. The murderer wore a badge.
When I call the police here in Austin, TX they automatically know from my cell phone number who I am and where I live. I assume that all police have the same ability.
If for whatever reason the police can't verify the caller's identity it should be a standard procedure for the police to ask for the number and call it back to verify the caller's ID. If it turns out to be the phone of an Indian telemarketer, a spoofed number or for whatever reason is untraceable it is a phony call. All this can be done in the first 30 seconds after a call is received while the police are responding and before they arrive.
If every pizza delivery service in the U.S. can detect phony phone calls and ignore then why can't the police?
Thought experiment: if the address was for the town's mayor do you think the police would have treated this as a real call?
I'm not saying the police should ignore these calls. But the organizations that represent police departments should be developing best practices, operator training and phone call checking procedures to at least get the first responders up to the skill level of Dominos.
The guy who called in the swat should honestly be hung. in public. A major factor in the reason these kinds of things keep happening is because there is often very little risk in doing so; people get a community cleanup sentence that gets reduced to sweeping floors for 20 minutes and attending a video session about why what they did is bad, that they end up ignoring.
There is almost never any real tangible repercussions that people see that make them go OH SHIT WELL I'M NEVER EVER EVER DOING THAT EVER.
Back in the day people were hung or otherwise executed for things that today people get no real lasting repercussions for doing.
We really do need to sometimes take an extreme sample and make an example of them to show people that there are occasionally real repercussions for doing things that should never be done in a functioning society. Honestly this kid just hampers the proper functioning of society and should be removed permanently as an example to others.
Simple.
Armchair quarterbacking here: Why didn't the police have some sort of Forward looking infrared (FLIR) camera to scan the house and note if there were any other occupants and their positions? Aren't they/shouldn't they be more sophisticated than just bullets?
Apparently the police cannot legally use FLIR without a warrant:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93127&page=1
On Youtube.
The main takeaways:
He's done that many times.
He enjoys "evacuating" (swatting) people.
He was paid for this particular SWAT call.
He understands he's indirectly responsible for the killing and he's ready to serve jail time (just not a life sentence) if he gets caught (he's already been apprehended).
The caller ID thing is neither here nor there, the phone company will record the actual caller for billing purposes.
Are you from outside the USA? First of all, local calls have been free here for decades, and you might not be used to that. Second, the caller is the one that is billed, and if it came from VoIP, like most of our junk spam phone calls come from these days, it would have come from the internet, and could have come from anywhere.
There is no record of an incoming call other than the (easily forge-able) caller ID information. (Receiving a call on a cell phone might count against your minutes, but for purposes of billing it doesn't matter who is calling you.) I can go the att.com web site and see the list of calls I've received, but the only number they record is the caller ID number, even the calls with the recent "same exchange" scam that uses your first six digits plus RND(10000).
Sure, back in the days when it was just the monopoly of Ma Bell, they could figure out where the call came from, because they owned ALL the lines. But it could still take a while, even if you notified them in advance of the call. Now the call could come from Outer Bumfuckistan and there would be no way to trace it back farther than the VoIP gateway. Good luck getting access to those logs, if they even exist, much less getting them in any reasonable time frame. And even then, the guy could be behind seven proxies.
If they figure out who made the call, it's going to be because the guy did something stupid, either calling from a wired or cell phone of a (reputable) telco, or posting about it on social media.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
The police are one of the reasons I no longer travel to the USA.
The judicial system as far as judges are concerned I'm happy with, but State prosecutors massively abuse their position to threaten, intimidate and coerce people into plea-bargins, and the police are killers.
They had blinding lights on him, he probably raised his hand to shield his eyes so that he could see what was going on.
Something is wrong with the way Americans train police. I don't think they know this, but American police are the butt of jokes around the world. They're not real cops.
Most of them are former security guards and prison guards who think their guns are toys, like this acquitted Philip Mitchell Brailsford piece of shit who forced a guy begging for his life to play "Simon Says", pumped five rounds into him, and then typically claimed self defense like an American policeman will always do.
Cops with prior military training don't act like this at all. Maybe you would be better served by unloading your current "police force" and starting anew with recruits who have been trained to respect weapons and understand that they serve the public, not the other way around.
The guy put his hands up when told to. Apparently he did it too fast, which looks as though "he's got a gun". This attitude of "cops should be treated like kings", which is essentially what you're arguing, is the problem here. Cops aren't soldiers. If the person is not complying, that is not a reason for killing them.
Ah, but he was complying. If that alone were not reason enough for killing him, he was complying too fast as well. How much more reason do you need?
If that is why he was shot in the head, the cop was an even dumber fuck that we first thought!
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
So, caller ID is easy to spoof. That's what causes you to pick up for the Indian telemarketer because they emulate your parent's number. But, there is more accurate data from the phone company. 911 gets that. It is possible to spoof (obviously) but is not trivial like caller ID.
When you pizza delivery service detects a phony call, they are probably using this deeper data. I would guess the same workarounds that swatters use would cause a fake pizza delivery... but fortunately the expertise is rare enough.
As for calling back, while that would be nice, it's not terribly possible in many emergency situations. For one thing, if someone is claiming they are hiding in a closet making a call because they are being held hostage. For another, its adds extra time to the operator's handling of the call.
And if it was the mayor's house, I'd imagine SWAT would show up far quicker (unless the mayor has bodyguards), but would be far far far less likely to shoot the mayor.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
With their record, does anyone actually Call the police anymore for real calls anymore?
Seems like when people call for service, they're calling to be murdered...
Yes. All the time. You are falling victim to selection bias. There are maybe 240 million 911 calls a year and maybe 2000 people killed by police. That gives you less than a one in a hundred thousand chance of having someone die as a result of a police call, although obviously the chance is a LOT higher on stupid fake calls like this that are designed to prompt a police raid.
There are lots of situations where for most people it is pretty unambiguous that you should call the police: car accidents, home intrusion, restraining order violation, significant theft, unexplained firearm discharge (depending on the community), break-in or attempted break-ins, serious physical attacks, arson, burglary, robbery, etc...
Real lawyers write in C++
A leg shot with a 223 or 308 is going to be much more deadly than a shotgun bean bag round to the torso. If they have the option.
But this was a trigger happy sniper, likely prone out with cover. Head shot. 'Raised his hands too abruptly'?
He could have just twitched on a light trigger and made up the justification, believes it now though.
I honestly believe that universal cameras will sort the cops as much as they can be. But only if they kick the ones whos cameras repeatedly 'fail mysteriously'. Which I expect, maybe, half the departments to do.
It's not that the SWAT guy's camera is all that much help, (and putting CCDs in scopes isn't easy) it's that he wouldn't be on SWAT if he had a camera on his chest as a rookie cop.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Ah, I hadn't heard he was shot in the head. That would support my assumption that it was an officer with a rifle and scope, and would indeed mean specifically aiming for a small body part.
In that case the basic premise is, "I'm firing because of a threat to life, and that requires elimination of the threat."
Shooting someone in the legs does not prevent them shooting back.
If that's true, I'm a little impressed that the cop managed hit his intended target at 50+ yards on the first shot. They usually empty the magazine, reload, and empty it again and only seem to hit bystanders and the surrounding buildings.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
So what happens when one cop yells don't move, one yells get on your knees, one yells put your hands up? Which one do you do? Think quick, if you guess wrong, you're dead and it'll be "your fault".
In civilized countries murder of 1st degree as the Americans calls it is a capital offense. But in the US murder is legal for no other reason than a low IQ person shouts before shooting.
... in public a minimum of 40 million times a year. Of those 40+ million comments, maybe 1,000 will contain statistics not conveniently pulled out of the commenters ass.
Now I realize that Slashdot isn't quite what it used to be, but I would still not expect the "average" retard on here to at least have a basic understanding of bullshit and affirming reality perception. The "fact" that you would post something so blatant in the first place is bad enough on it's own, but the multiple upmods are to be expected.
*Knock knock* "Yes hello, is there a hostage situation at this house? I drew the short straw so have to come here to your door to take your word for if there is any problem here that requires our assistance."
Is that what you are seeking?
E.g. the show "24". "By the book" has become that weird thing that nobody cool does anymore and gets you nowhere with "these criminals" (as opposed to the other criminals: themselves). That has been so ingrained into their minds, that they now think this is how cops are supposed to be.
Add to that the massive abuse of drugs that turn you into psychopaths/sociopaths even in schools and starting at an early age (for profit, of course), and a society that despises anything related to emotions, feelings or being social, because it is led by the biggest psychopaths,
plus the US being the Mont Perelin Society's pet project regarding erecting a totalitarian fascist ("neocon") state,
and a rising need of the military to get rid of useless weapons and military equipment that the senate of lobbyists (aka traitors) bought them against their will,
and you got the perfect recipe for this.
It's to be expected. Like the Gestapo in Germany (where I'm from). Let's just hope this whole shit explodes or implodes quickly. Either way, the sooner it's over, the better.
> 1. When the cops tell you to do something, you do it.
Five cops burst into your room on an otherwise regular boring day in your regular boring life where shit like this NEVER happens. You are scared out of your mind. One of them yells "Don't move!" and at the same time another yells "Get down on the ground, NOW!" You can barely hear the instructions from the noise all five are making. What is the correct course of action here?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
The irresponsible use of 911 is like firing a gun in the general direction of someone - if someone is subsequently killed, manslaughter is the minimum charge; if someone is not killed, reckless endangerment of life or attempted murder should send them to prison...
Source?
It was a swat team homie. Thats about as special ops as it gets so Im not sure youre wannabe statement implies
The swatter is 25 yo
If that is true, then calling in a SWAT is a felony and (in my state at least) when someone dies during the commission of a felony, it's a murder charge. That little prick is going to have a hard time gaming in prison for the next twenty years.
SWAT teams are trained with military techniques and use military gear, which is very bad for a domestic, peacetime operation. It makes them nervous, jumpy and trains them to see threats everywhere instead of people.
Rule 2: if a swat team orders you to put your hands up, do it slowly and deliberately.
Do it slowly and you get shot for not following orders, do it quickly and you get shot for scaring the cops.
Really, if a SWAT team is unexpectedly yelling at you, barking orders, is your FIRST instinct going to be to raise your hands SLOWLY?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
How long does it take for such a transformation to get newtralized?
It could be the brother, the hostage answering the door. A halfwit would have somebody else answer the door when the cops arrive.
Cops are trained and given everything reasonable to do their job safely and competently. The error and responsibility lies with them. That armor and training is not just to protect them it is protect citizens so they can be careful and not risk lives.
His (xer) ass
This was a really stupid prank and hopefully they catch whoever did it. But one thing I've always wondered about police work in general is this...especially in SWAT situations, why is there such a level of fear? SWAT teams are wearing bulletproof vests...they might get hurt but won't die from gunfire. The other thing is that any criminal is massively outgunned by a SWAT team. They should go into these situations feeling determined they can win, not scared!
I just don't understand why the first reaction of a cop is to pull out their gun and start firing before figuring out what's going on. Just stopping for a few milliseconds would fix a lot of problems.
Those teams are brought into the most volatile situations and must be on a hair trigger if they want to go home each night.
So, send in a robot or drone, and assess the situation with no risk to human life. Swatting will fall out of fashion very quickly if the prankster/troll risks jail, and all it accomplishes is law enforcement sending a flying camera to peek through the target's windows for a few minutes.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
In a just world, both the caller and cop who shot an unarmed man would stand trial and hang for murder. And I mean literally hang. Want to be tough on crime? Start with people sworn to prevent it but who commit it.
Involuntary manslaughter? Death by cop? Being an adult and being this much of a dumbass?
Strange, I think they're both issues.
ABSOLUTELY. It should be Life imprisonment for the officer that shot that guy, AND whoever swatted him should get 10 years.
One of the root causes of swatting is a caller ID implementation based on AT&T's ancient Signaling System 7 (SS7) and ISDN bolt-ins, insecure VoIP gateways that are often hijacked, and an acceptance at a legislative level that this type of thing should continue. Caller ID should be cryptographically signed any time it touches a publicly-regulated telephone system, and should alert the recipient of the call of the potential falsehood. That way, a 911 operator could at least relay the possibility of a false call.
In addition, 911 dispatchers and SWAT generally need to approach these situations with a bit more strategy and less tactics. The dispatchers need to start asking questions from the caller about where they are, what they're doing, what's going on, name, etc.. When/if SWAT is in the residence, they need to instruct people clearly and concisely to keep their hands visible at all times and not move them to a place where they can't see them and allow them to control the situation quickly. This is literally the only thread of reason why the cop in Mesa that killed the poor guy in his hotel in 2016 wasn't convicted of murder by that jury, even though that cop should probably be sitting in prison for the rest of his life.
One point that you are unfortunately wholly incorrect on is the culpability of the false 911 caller. If you are in commission of a crime and someone dies as a result of the commission of that crime, you can be found criminally liable for your actions. This is why you see home invaders whose co-conspirators are shot during the commission of the crime OR when the targeted victims or police are killed are always charged with murder even though the homeowner or police had a perfectly lawful reason to shoot them otherwise.
In addition, Federal legislation should also be passed with minimum automatic sentences of 25 to life for anyone who attempts to SWAT another individual or facilitates or conspires to do the same. Warnings should be posted to these ridiculous online games on the startup screen. Beyond that, a few high-profile prosecutions will hopefully protect the public from future incidents like this.
*Knock knock* "Yes hello, is there a hostage situation at this house? I drew the short straw so have to come here to your door to take your word for if there is any problem here that requires our assistance."
Is that what you are seeking?
Yes.
In civilized countries that's how it works. Know what? It actually works, too. See, one thing you don't want to do - ever- is inject more "energy" into a situation. If there's nothing wrong going on, a simple query keeps things civil. A few questions and the homeowner is fairly likely to invite one or more officers in to confirm there's no hostage situation. No yelling, no screaming, no sudden gestures, no escalation. On the other hand, if something wrong is going on, there's some risk - yes - but there's a much better chance of talking it down.
Going apeshit is for military actions, not police actions.
"Oh no... he found the
Looks like the kid complied at first, then went into an aggressive stance. He was unarmed.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I wonder if any body / dash cams were working...
Given that the linked article includes body cam video, I'm going to guess the answer is "yes".
Wow, the cop who killed him is an excellent shot, assuming he didn't get lucky.
But he's also a twitchy murdering asshole if he decided to kill someone based on what that video shows.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
threatening hand motions toward his waist. I.e., he might have had a gun/knife/banana on his belt, in his belt, behind his back _anywhere_ his hand might reach.
Cops screwed this one up - I say manslaughter at the least.
while on the job. It's been that way for decades.
It is rare the officer who needs to draw his weapon during his career. But the increased hiring of ex-military into police positions has turned the USA into a war zone.
And then there's the change in attitude of LEOs: Scratch me, I'll shoot you until you're dead. Hit me, I'll shoot you until you're dead. Move left, , I'll shoot you until you're dead. Move right, I'll shoot you until you're dead.
Once upon a time a policeman would take a hit or two, or even an occasional bullet, and get back up and do the arrest. Their job was to protect the innocent. Now they gun the innocent down as mercilessly as the guilty.
We need to take guns away from LEOs and arm the citizenry instead.
It sounded like a rifle shot to me. Time will tell.
Just so you know, the officer giving the orders was not Brailsford, it was a Sgt Langley. The infamous bodycam video is from Brailsford and picks up Langley giving some pretty awful verbal directions.
I don't understand why it's a problem over there.
Many of the US cops are veterans with PTSD. They blew away people in Fallujah and have barely more compunction about doing it in Tulsa.
It's "us" (cops) vs. "them" (citizens) and they're trained to think that way explicitly, and there's even a whole movement about it ("The Thin Blue Line").
The local governments appreciate their ability to prey on the citizenry and milk them for revenue, so there's little political pressure to change things. They steal money from innocent people and the States' Attorneys General support them in buying pinball machines, race cars, and the occasional hookers with the stolen money.
People are turning to alternatives like Cell411 and not calling the cops unless they "need" government paperwork. The problem in this particular case is that the victim never called the cops, so it's not a foolproof plan.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Something is wrong with the way Americans train police. I don't think they know this, but American police are the butt of jokes around the world. They're not real cops.
In order to become a cop in America, you need a grand total of two years of community college, and to pass some extremely pathetic tests. In order to carry a gun as a cop in America, you have to pass some extremely pathetic qualifying exams, which are often cheated upon with the participation of management. In cop school, they're teaching recruits that there is a war on cops, even though this is the safest time in history to be a cop in America, and they are killing citizens in record numbers.
Everything is wrong with the way Americans train police.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
100% yes. Cops job is life on the line in defense of others and to minimise lost life if necessary.
Trigger-happy, borderline-psycho cops should be discharged immediately after countrywide test.
They do nothing but make bad situations worse, never mind make neutral/good situations bad!
It's also why cops should be paid a respectable sum for such a risky job.
If you want to be safe, become an accountant. If you want to help people, get paid a ton, and can accept a small amount of risk, be a cop, and stop fucking whining about how dangerous your job is.
If you're the type who can't control their adrenal, don't fucking apply.
They were also told it was a 1 story house. From the moment they rolled up and found a 2 story house, they should have been questioning the information they were given.
Only in America. Good job Trumpâ(TM)s Making America Grate Again
That is the cum from all the dicks you have been sucking on.
To a good cop, after opening the door and lowering your arms in a natural manner = normal. To a bad cop, after opening the door and lowerins your arms in a natural manner = HE'S GOT A GUN
So shoot the shoulder of the arm connected to the hand holding the gun instead of going for BOOM HEADSHOT!
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Perhaps you should write to the police and invite them to attend your firearms training. I'm sure they'd appreciate the assistance.
It's funny how everyone knows there's a problem, and we argue about whether it's the training that leads to it, or whether it's environment the officers are in, or if it's a problem with the individual themselves that become police officers. But we all know there's a problem.
The asshole swatter is responsible too. Listen to the 911 call he made. He claims he has a gun, has killed his father, has his little brother and mother held in there in a closet, and has poured gasoline all over the house. Every time you create an incident like this with officers responding to it you're rolling the dice, no matter how much training you give them. You run this scenario 1000 times in a 1000 different neighborhoods and someone in some police department fucks up somewhere. Some officer somewhere has no business being in that high stress situation, and thinks he sees a gun, or maybe he though "better safe than sorry" and is hiding behind the "I thought I saw a gun" excuse. And everyone knows there's a problem with the police overreacting. Everyone knows it, that's the thing. So someone gets killed and then the guy who created the situation goes on twitter and says "lol wasn't my fault, I didn't pull the trigger". That asshole does bear some responsibility for what happened too.
The only group who likes killing people MORE than n1gg3rs.
ONE: the cop, who killed an innocent person. The coward will probably skate claiming "fear for life". BS! You go to a door, you'd better not be excessively afraid. If you are, stand down/back! Kansas is Castle Doctrine, so cops have to stand back.
TWO: the swatter intended and knew harm would result. From LA, the case crosses state lines and brings the Feds in, and their Felony Murder rules, not the more-connected Kansas rules.
THREE: the misdirector who gave the swatter the addr. He knew harm could result. Maybe he pleads self-defense, but it is wanton disregard for safety of another. Innocent if he called Kansas promptly to report the threat and false addr.
Hey look, a bootlicker! How much pig-semen have you swallowed this week? Better go down to the station house and get today's load down your throat you fucking faggot.
Here's one, from the Dorner adventure. Both of the people in the truck survived, neither of which were their suspect. The truck didn't even match the description.
Of course, you could also just Google it. It looks like they even charge their intended target for the injuries that they cause to bystanders.
Terrible trolling, d- at best. Step your game up bro.
..."If making a fraudulent report about a hostage situation or bomb threat is a felony, then if anyone dies as a result of that phony report they can legally then be charged with felony murder. Under the doctrine of felony murder, when an offender causes the death of another (regardless of intent) in the commission of a dangerous crime, he or she is guilty of murder."
~ WaPo
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I wonder if you believe your own lies? Certainly no one else does.
Our police intentionally turn away people who are too smart out of fear they'll get bored of the job and leave after the (very expensive) training. So we get worse cops in exchange for some cost savings.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
One point that you are unfortunately wholly incorrect on is the culpability of the false 911 caller. If you are in commission of a crime and someone dies as a result of the commission of that crime, you can be found criminally liable for your actions.
Absolutely agree! And as I write, I understand someone has already been arrested for the false call.
I just don't want the police white washing "their" part in this travesty.
A police officer opened fire, shooting once, after the man quickly raised his hands and appeared to point a weapon at the officers, Livingston said.
That's what the police always say when they kill an unarmed civilian by mistake. But don't worry. Like in almost every case where a cop shoots someone without real justification, when it goes to trail the cop will just say he feared for his life and the odds are that the jury will buy it. And if you want to feel even worse about this, right now the caller is only looking at misdemeanor charges because, as he correctly stated on Twitter, calling in a false report is a misdemeanor and he didn't make the cops show up en masse nor did he make them pull the trigger. The DA may be able to creatively charge the caller with some contributing cause to a death, but I wouldn't bet that a jury would convict on it.
What we really need is for police departments nationwide to come up with a better way to investigate this stuff within reason so they don't just go in with guns blazing waiting for an innocent person to twitch so they can shoot him or her. There was a case a few years ago where an informant gave the police a wrong house number for a drug bust and police broke down the door of the house with the number they were given, a startled homeowner pulled a gun when seeing a bunch of strangers rush in and said homeowner was shot dead by the cops. Nobody got charged with anything in that one.
DROP THE GUN, AMERICA !
Which browser (version and OS you're running) are you using? I don't have Flash installed and all the videos worked for me.
A lot of American cops have prior military training. That's because most police forces have strong veteran hiring policies that weigh military experience before education or test scores. America fights a lot of wars, and therefore has a huge number of of veterans.
It's not military training that's needed, it's cop training. In fact I'd guess being trained for military urban combat means you've got a lot to unlearn.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Hit by fraud. It's not a "prank" when people die. It's homicide.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
+1 I think there has been a concerted effort to persuade 'civilians' that being a cop is the equivalent of being in the military in terms of danger. Any level of response is justifiable when your life is 'continuously under threat.' What you see on TV is not representative of the average police officers daily life.
I just parsed the 2016 statistics from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS):(https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshcfoi1.htm) and figured out that the fatal injury rate for 'Police and Sheriff's Patrol Officers' is 14.6 (the rate is a bit complicated, but weighted by total hours worked by total employees in that profession, to make jobs comparable)
Police work: @14.6 - slightly less, but roughly equivalently dangerous to Cement Manufacturing, Construction Laboring, working in Fish-Farming, Landscaping.
Professions that are 50%+ more likely to kill you than police work: Farming/Ranching (23.1), truck driving (24.7), steel-working (25.1), refuse collection (34.1)
More than THREE TIMES as dangerous as being a police officer: Roofing (48.6) and Aircraft pilots (55.5) (presumably a lot of private pilots crash?).
The most dangerous jobs in America today? Being a commercial fisherman (nearly six times as dangerous as being a cop) and Forestry Logging (more than NINE times more dangerous).
In case you're thinking it's a sample-size thing: in 2016, (according to the BLS), 108 police officers were fatally injured doing their job. 101 roofers, 91 loggers, 570(!) truck drivers.
So let's take truck driving, a considerably more dangerous profession than being a police officer, as an example. By the way, you 'need' truck drivers - it's how the food gets to your supermarkets and the medicines to the hospital. Truck driving, unhappily, causes some 'civilian' deaths, for a bunch of reasons: job stress, some bad training, some drivers don't take the mandatory breaks, maybe some use stimulants, whatever. How about we all look the other way when that happens, because, hey, it's a dangerous job, man? A lot of those truck drivers die on the job, y'know: you'd have to be one to understand.
I believe we should hold police to a higher standard than truck drivers, not a lower one. Being in danger is no excuse at all for being sloppy.
'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
wasnt korea a "police action"?
For the greater ‘good’.
- for whatever that means to you guys.
If they landed a headshot they were too at away. These guys are trained to aim for centre of body mass, the head is too small a target. The shooter missed, technically speaking.
If you hire a hitman to kill your spouse, you don't go after the hitman, that hitman was just doing his or her job The real villain is the person who hired the hitman. In this situation we have politicians and the rich entitled liberal elites who pay the salary of the police officers.
The job of the police officer is to
1) raise money for her or his bosses through tickets and incarcerations
2) protect the elites from the common pond scum such as you and me.
The way I see it the officer was doing his job. The dude he shot looked like white trash to me. He probably wasn't even a tax payer. If he was he was probably using the 1040 EZ form. The death of this poor white trash is going to make some rich millionaire democratic lawyer even more money by suing the Kansas city police dept. This money will go ensure a police commissioner gets chosen so that this stuff continues to happen and the democratic campaign donors get even more money suing cops.
If anything this cop should be a hero to the donor class. He is making them lots of money and eliminating a piece of trailer trash in the process.
If you want to find a villain it is the politicians and chamber of commerce to whom all good law enforcement officers report.
Rule 0: Don't be deaf.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Some people believe in fairy tales.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Don't move. If you are a stone and aren't fidgeting, you'll be far better off. Because the guy who wants you to lie down WILL yell it again, but won't feel threatened if you're absolutely still the way the other guy told you to be. On the other hand, the guy who doesn't want you to move may misinterpret your movement.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Firefox on Centos. Didn't work for me either.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Firefox relies on gstreamer for H.264 support on Linux. You mustn't have H.264 support installed in gstreamer (or you have an old Firefox build without gstreamer support), such is the hassle of patent royalty-bearing codecs. VP9 has made good progress and hopefully AV1 will finally cement royalty-free video formats as the standard on the web.
As far as use-of-force training, I value what I learned in the military over what the police academy teaches. The military has very strict rules about rules of engagement and the law of armed conflict. In fact as a military cop I was taught that unless there is an all-out assault by the Taliban on my base, discharging a firearm state-side is a last resort that will likely result in a court martial. They taught me that the people I interact with, military or civilian, are people on my side and it was my job to help them. No "us vs. them" mentality like with US police. Just "us."
I certainly trust veterans with firearms much more than I do police in the USA. At least veterans have proper respect beaten into us.
Or send someone round the back to listen/peep through a window. Or, you know, sniff. Because they'd also been told the place was doused in gasoline. You'd be able to smell that a block away.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Because the guy who wants you to lie down WILL yell it again
You are amazingly stupid to believe that, given recent history with cops.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
He made that head shot with a longarm. So a headshot at 200 feet is no surprise. At 200 feet a pistol is not a threat. He was a sniper. It was murder.
Then they should have know not to get involved as their involvement produced a felony murder and the entire SWAT team could (and should?) be facing felony murder charges whether they pulled the trigger or not.
Why only 10 years for whoever swatted? Why not life in prison as well?
-rd
...
Totally disagree. How do 5 cops get in your room without saying a thing and then two of them speak at the same time? Here's a hint: The first one in will tell you what to do.
I've been in my room on a typical monday morning and had the FBI burst into my room. When the door opened, I saw an M-16 and a couple pistols. I think only 3 were behind the door, but it may have been 4 or 5 until they knew the situation was safe and moved on. They told me and my roommate to put our hands up. We did. They asked us to come into the family room. We did.
Guess what? In the 60s between when they got in the house and to our room, they were yelling that they are the FBI and that they have a warrant. While scared about what was going on, I never felt like my life was threatened. Maybe I should have? But I feel like they did a fine job and no one did anything to try and escalate.
If you do an IP lookup for an address and the lookup provider only knows the IP address is in the USA, you will get the geographic center of Continental USA which is located in Kansas a little north of Wichita. Depending on how you resolve the resolution you might get Andrew Finch's address.
Bullshit. Unless that officer was using a pair of binoculars. Stupid, panicky pigs.
Can't quite tell for sure, but it does appear that the rifle had a small scope on it. If so, even a small one would have been good enough to provide a better view than we see in the video.
What I'm most shocked about is that it wasn't the typical hail of fire where only one or two actually found the target. This was a shot by an officer that actually knew how to use their weapon!
It's absolutely disgusting that this guy lost his life over some prick half the country away being pissed off over a $1 or $2 dollar bet. The limited context of the video would seem to corroborate with the Police's version of events though (that he wasn't following commands). I've been an adult longer for awhile now than I was a child and it's always been basic knowledge that when dealing with cops in a non-friendly situation there are two basics to walking away. First and foremost, you ALWAYS move slow. Especially when raising your hands. Sudden moves will get you shot 9 times out of 10. The second rule is to follow the orders even if you believe they are in the wrong. Being alive and sorting it out later is far better than being dead and right.
Of course knowing these things in the comfort of my office behind my computer is drastically different that opening my front door at night to find my house surrounded by cops pointing the guns at me. It's very believable to me (without seeing more video context) that the guy opened the door, freaked out, and wanted to get his hands up as quickly as he could so as to show compliance and being unarmed.
There are really not enough bad things I can hope happen to the asshole that made the phone call.
After watching the body cam, it's a bit pathetic. Maybe there should be better quality cameras on the dash. I think I've had better quality from 10year old cameras, if the intention is to show that the criminals are misbehaving, this quality really lets the police down.
Those cameras are designed for closer interactions than what happened here. Maybe 20' tops? Additionally this was video at night and not in an IR mode. Given the poor lighting conditions and distance, that's actually pretty good quality in my opinion.
Police are unnecessarily jumpy these days it seems... "Better him than me" (even a bulletproof-jacketed me, with backup present). Whatever happened to backing down? To taking cover, to de-escalation, to providing space for cold blooded moves (as opposed to hot-blooded)? I wonder how much police pride is involved in all this?
Also, I wonder how the dispacher's words contribute to this? Do they say 'shots fired' as a statement of fact, or do they use words like 'unconfirmed' or 'alleged', especially if there is only one, unknown, witness reporting the incident.
Also, bring the other coward to justice, the one who gave the fool doxxer the fake address.
should no longer be allowed on the streets with a gun.
Sure- it might just be unfortunate. But, it's a known risk factor at that point.
Like how you can't be sued for not having a fence around your pool. But once you are warned not having a fence around your pool is a risk, then you can be sued because you were warned and knew the risk.
And the gamer who sent the police needs to go to jail for manslaughter for several years.
When you cause a crime, you are responsible for the crime.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
They should fire that other cop... the one shouting the orders... at the very least. He should know the guy is confused and possibly inebriated ... So instead of subjecting him to a barrage of commands and threats, all of which increase the risk of a fatal slipup (hands up, stay down and crawl), he should have taken the first chance to make the arrest while the guy was compliant and on the floor with his hands on the back. Fool.
Maybe this police fool was angry the victim was playing with guns in public. And decided to make him pay with humiliation. Maybe he should have remembered that he didn't witness nothing and that all crime is alleged until proved.
At the very least the union should censure and dissociate from such cops who don't use their brains, instead of mumbling "training, training" and blindly siding with fools who contributed to this situation. I'd hope they do, rather than the public dissociating itself from the cops. I think unions need managerial/leadership reps (and vice versa, as they have in Germany)
Maybe calling them fools is a bit of a stretch (others must judge), so I withdraw that term. But the public must be taken out of harm's way, which means firing some and retraining the rest.
police work isn't even in the top 10 of most dangerous professions
It's low on the list of overall risk but according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics law enforcement officers are the second most likely to be murdered on the job. Number one is taxi drivers.
https://img.washingtonpost.com...
I do not block ads. I do block third party scripts.
Langley reportedly took "early retirement" and moved to the Philippines if I heard the story right, the shooter was let go. The whole thing was a mess IMO.
Guys, is anyone fucking surprised? This was an eventual inevitability given how shitty nerds on 4chan/8ch/reddit and such engage in revenge pranking.
This is why you are point blank told not to give you real contact info out on the fucking Internet for rabbid adult toddlers to lob shit at.
Keep in mind that VoIP is not a privacy guard whatsoever. The real number (of the VoIP POTS bridge) is shown to 911 operators, and the caller ID/caller ID blocking is ignored. 911 operators assume the VoIP emergency address is valid. That is volatile information that is sent each time the 911 is called.
Prankers/swatters are typically only using a VPN and use a google or skypeout number to do this shit.
It's not necessarily easy to comply with orders from a cop. First, they're shouting loudly, not necessarily easy to understand, your hearing may be off, you may not be perfectly fluent in English, etc. Second, you're confused as hell about what is going on and why someone suddenly kicked down your door, you may have just woken up too. Third, your adrenaline is going full blast and so is the cop's. There are so many ways for everything to go wrong at this point, because it's the wrong way to approach this sort of situation.
Not complying is also a right of the citizens. You have a right not to get shot in your own home. Police cannot enter your home without permission or a warrant either. Police should not have the power to issue arbitrary commands and expect citizens to obey them out of fear of their lives.
And a special tip of the hat to the mindless mushroom moderators who worked so double-plus unhard to prove my main points.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Why would the police randomly kill someone? Like a swatting victim?
I will never travel to USA. A country where the police presumably simply assassinate people, either because the police want to protect themselves in hysterical ways, (intentionally committing murder, just to be safe because they can get away with it legally) or, because the police are acting with full prejudice, probably not being the kind of proverbial 'justice' people like to think there is.
I still remember the police in Washington assassinating that female driver some time ago, with that baby in the back of the car, a car that simply drove away from police and apparently had done nothing wrong other than driving away from the police. I remember my local newspaper in my country showed an article about how the woman's car was said to have rammed a police car, but then afterwards I see video footage of this police car that actually rammed itself into the road blocker feature at speed.
SWATing should not be a felony, but a SWAT team should be seen as a murder squad.
In that case SWATing is an attempt of murder 1.
And you are in enough presence of mind to not turn your head to see what the hell is going on? Or maybe, you know, to visually confirm that the two police officers behind you AREN'T about to pull the trigger? You'll just be able to sit there, unmoving?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Well looking at all those youtube videos where police comes to some random gamer home:
1) they not always yell 'police' when they enter,
2) they are not always uniformed,
3) sometimes they are breaking into the house - they are answering hostage situation so they are not willing somebody to open the door,
On the other side there is person that does not know this game, is in the sitation that somebody is breaking into his house, is violent and you just involuntarily want to fight.
In my mind somehow I wouldn't blame the killed guy but the police - but I am from Europe, so what can I know.
In Europe we block all those calls that come from "no caller id" - the operator has special opt-in feature. Nobody calls using VOIP and if the then it is displaying local number.
Fun fact: Skype calls are not popular because of some 'local' number in Ireland and people are not answering.
Get shot apparently.
- Cop should be charged with murder. Crouched behind a vehicle, wearing body armor, weapon trained on the door of the house, at least 50 yards away and says the innocent victim was reaching for his waistband. Of course, he feared for his life. Hope the jury does not fall for this bullshit and convicts him.
- The serial fake 911 caller should receive a substantially longer sentence (he already served time for a previous 911 hoax).
If all things where true.... Wouldn't this be a suicide by cop scenerio? Something all police are aware of and do everything to avoid
I certainly trust veterans with firearms much more than I do police in the USA. At least veterans have proper respect beaten into us.
You can't beat respect into someone. You can beat rifle skills into them, but not respect. You can beat violence into them, but not respect. You can beat a dark future for humanity into them, but not respect.
It's a fact that the military has had to dig deeper and deeper into the barrel as people have become more and more aware that our military exists to project power and maintain our empire, and not to make the world a better place. That's why racism is a massive problem in the military which is trickling down to law enforcement. Military may receive better training, but that's not a good thing when they're someone who never should have had military training in the first place. They will be inclined to use the deadly parts of their military training right along with the parts you like. And if they joined up in the first place because they're a bully who wanted to push people around, they're just going to do more of that as a cop.
The idea that soldiers are more responsible than the average member of the population is beyond ridiculous. There are many reasons why people might join up, and the military cannot afford to reject those who do not meet their standards, because they would otherwise be even shorter on recruits than they think they are already.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Maybe calling them fools is a bit of a stretch (others must judge), so I withdraw that term. But the public must be taken out of harm's way, which means firing some and retraining the rest.
In your attempt to avoid blaming police, you just blamed the public and put the onus of not being shot upon them. You just said we should fire some of the public, and retrain other members of the public. I'm sure this is not what you meant to type, but it's clear it's what you really meant.
The public does not need to be taken anywhere. The public is not in "harm's way", they are in the cops' way. The cops need to be taken somewhere, mostly to about two to four additional years of schooling before we put them on the street with what is apparently a license to kill.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
And there you put your finger on the distinguishing characteristic of the authoritarian personality: its obsession with punishment and avoiding punishment. Someone who has been thoroughly trained to avoid punishment is malleable, therefore seen as "responsible".
The thing is that the US military understands obedience is not enough, even for a military culture. That they want is someone who can not only follow instructions, but understand them and take personal initiative when appropriate. They understand that they need resilient people, but the supply of people who can be trained to that standard is limited.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
As for calling back, while that would be nice, it's not terribly possible in many emergency situations. For one thing, if someone is claiming they are hiding in a closet making a call because they are being held hostage.
You can't be held hostage if nobody knows you're there.
For another, its adds extra time to the operator's handling of the call.
No, it does not. You deploy the SWAT team, and then you verify the call. If you find out that the call was bullshit, then you recall the SWAT team. It's not rocket surgery, dude. This is obvious. Your objection is not just stupid, it's insane.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
*Knock knock* "Yes hello, is there a hostage situation at this house? I drew the short straw so have to come here to your door to take your word for if there is any problem here that requires our assistance."
Someone called in a domestic violence complaint at my address. I still don't know if it was a real event in progress with the wrong address, or an attempt at a SWATting. The cops DID tell me that the call was made from a cellular telephone, and that the E911 information did not match my address. The cops rocked my gate post until it was loose and took it out of the ground in order to come up to my house, and did a shit job of replacing it, but they were actually very polite even though I answered the door with no shirt on. They even let me go back into the house and put on a shirt without following me inside, once my lady had come out and let them see that she was not being beaten. Then they apologized before they left.
This is more or less what a police interaction should look like, although I could complain about my gate. It would have been better for me if they'd just cut off the padlock. Or even better, if they had actually gone to the site of the 911 call, as provided by E911. Here in Lake County, CA, we have one of the highest ratios of police to non-police citizens (police are citizens too, not military) in the country. At least, I believe it's still in the top ten... it was actually #1 for a little while. They have enough cops to simultaneously visit my address and the one from which the call originated. That would cost more, but be much more responsible than taking my gate post out of the ground because they're too fat and lazy to walk up a driveway.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Why only 10 years for whoever swatted? Why not life in prison as well?
It's wrong to equivocate swatting and actually shooting someone. Swatting wouldn't even be dangerous if cops were responsible, and then nobody would bother to do it. The cops create this problem, and then they are the problem.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
+1 I think there has been a concerted effort to persuade 'civilians' that being a cop is the equivalent of being in the military in terms of danger.
Well, the two are very similar. As a soldier, you're at a higher risk of suicide than of being killed by the enemy. I think there has been a concerted effort to persuade citizens that fighting for oil is as dangerous as fighting for freedom.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I've been in my room on a typical monday morning and had the FBI burst into my room. When the door opened, I saw an M-16 and a couple pistols. I think only 3 were behind the door, but it may have been 4 or 5 until they knew the situation was safe and moved on. They told me and my roommate to put our hands up. We did. They asked us to come into the family room. We did.
The FBI are properly trained law enforcement. Police, even SWAT team members, typically aren't. That's the difference here. You think you're qualified to chime in on what it's like to be invaded by a SWAT team, but that's not what happened to you because the people who charged into your house were actually trained and competent.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
We were just presented with two choices. I described the better of the two choices.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I have no less disdain for the failure of controls on the police side of the problem. However, your response emphasized the culpability of the swatter. The swatter will likely be charged with felony murder being a death occurred in the act of a felony. While some may argue that the death was unforeseeable or generally criticize the concept of felony murder, in this case there is a clear element of reckless indifference because the swatter is fully aware of the lack of polic controls and hence potential outcome.
-rd
in this case there is a clear element of reckless indifference because the swatter is fully aware of the lack of polic controls and hence potential outcome.
I agree, and have made the same point repeatedly in this discussion. However, they are not the one that pulled the trigger, with whom the bulk of culpability ultimately rests. Still, there is plenty of blame to go around, and many deserving targets.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In this country, regardless of the conditions a speed trap will achieve a perfect photo. I think mythbusters used a Nikon D3 or similar flagship camera as an example. But then the interests are balanced towards making revenue. A GoPro would likely achieve much better results. And again, there's no good reason why the dash camera couldn't be something better too. Most home video cameras are crystal by comparison.
Why UNIX?
Trigger happy police says it all
https://games.slashdot.org/sto...
Why don't the idiot cops catch any blame for being so cowardly and triggerhappy these days?! Listen to how they address civilians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Fair enough, hiding in the closet from an intruder. There are going to be some situations where it's impossible to call back, and those would be the situation swatters would choose.
I didn't say it would delay the SWAT team. I said it would add to the time it takes the operator to handle the call. There' not a lot of extra operator time in the 911 system. And that means possibly delaying the next call.
And what happens if they cannot reconnect? Your battery dies or have a bad connection and you cannot get help?
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Newt Netrality.
I like this meme; many organisations have/reserve the right to escalate to maximum in critical situations. Unfortunately for us, the border between run-of-the-mill and critical is guarded by a criterion which is as subject to misunderstanding as possible. This has the effect of removing the criterion which determines proportionate response; effectively allowing any action to be retroactively justified by the use of the industry-appropriate magic phrase:
eg:
* 'I thought I saw a gun' -> it's ok to unload a clip into someone's back
* 'I thought I smelt gas' -> it's ok to break someone's door down whilst they're on holiday then leave the property unsecured
* Fill in your own examples at will
Requiem for the American Dream
a) omg ROFL wtf are you smoking? OR
b) true dat; just not the general public
Requiem for the American Dream
Incorrect; donuts are deep fried!
Requiem for the American Dream
We can do that too, but the problem is that you can fake ANY caller ID because the system (CNID) was designed when AT&T was a monopoly, and you could trust where the call came from. When you fake a number, it's not "no caller id" anymore, so the hidden number blocking doesn't work. The other technology (ANI) requires the source of the call to be trusted, which hasn't been true for a long time.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
The suspect not only came to the door alone, something a hostage taker would not do, he also walks out into the open... How the hell can anyone with 2 braincells to rub together take this as a 'hostage situation'?
He also had no visible weapon.
And if he was 50+yrds away, how could they be fearing for their lives? If they had their lights on him, he could not even see them correctly. So he was unarmed and at a severe disadvantage, but *he* was the threat?????
I didn't say it would delay the SWAT team. I said it would add to the time it takes the operator to handle the call. There' not a lot of extra operator time in the 911 system. And that means possibly delaying the next call.
So hire more operators instead of more assassins.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I would normally agree except in this situation the man opened the door to investigate the noise and had no idea what was going on, he was still trying to get a grip on what he opened his door to. There was no officer near him, he was t responding to a particular persons commands, just someone shouting something at him. He probably just showed his hands thinking he was showing them he wasnâ(TM)t a threat. Heâ(TM)s on his own porch after all, and it took all of about 5 seconds for them to shoot. It also appeared he was shielding his eyes from the spotlight
Dominos have market forces driving their excellence. Police forces around the world have no such incentive.
If Dominos could stop anyone on the street/pull them over/invade their home and coerce them to accept their pizza service on punishment of death or imprisonment, it's conceivable that they too would become less than they could be.
Requiem for the American Dream
Why only 10 years for whoever swatted? Why not life in prison as well?
Because just like shooting someone is a ridiculously-disproportionate and Unlawful punishment to apply to an innocent person who has not even shown any obvious proof of being a criminal or a danger or having malicious intent:
Life in prison is an unjust punishment for whoever swatted, since it is a disproportionate punishment for the crime of reporting a false incident.
A 10 year sentence should apply based on filing a false report with malicious intention or "as a joke" against someone or intent to harass someone or disrupt the peace with reckless disregard to the risk of damage to property and safety, AND that kind of sentence should apply even if nobody dies in the incident.
The ultimate responsibility for the death falls to someone who made a decision to shoot, AND that person who made the decision to shoot And then acted by pulling the trigger should be punished just as much as anyone else who commits a 2nd degree murder.
The swatter will likely be charged with felony murder being a death occurred in the act of a felony.
"Felony Murder" - in Kansas K.S.A. 21-3401 : "Homicide in the commission of, attempt to commit, or escape from an inherently dangerous felony" K.S.A. 21-3436
They will not likely be able to use that charge, because the "felony" in the form of the fraudulent call would have occurred first and been done before the shooting that did not occur at the scene of the crime. The cause of death was a shooting that happened After the felony, so the death would not be in the commission of, attempt to commit, or "escape"
Also, there are Only specific felonies; mostly things like Kidnapping, Arson, Rape, Felony Theft, Treason, Child Abuse; the statute lists nothing about making a fraudulent report with intent for the police's SWAT team to be induced into harassing
someone or maybe disrupting their affairs or damaging property or shooting people....
How I got modded -1 flame bait and you got +5 is ridiculous and a sign that some sock puppet accounts need to be nuked...
Regarding your question, it is simple. Cops are people too, who want to make it home to see their families. The main thing they care about is what you are doing with your hands. Moving your hands against orders is a sure way to get shot. Another way to get shot is putting your hands where the officers can't see them. In any felony arrest, the best thing you can do is freeze, wait for the initial couple of seconds of confusion and then verbally and then physically comply with officers commands SLOWLY. Quick movements are also very dangerous and liable to get you shot. Moving like a sloth may aggravate the cops if they feel you aren't complying fast enough, but they won't shoot you over it.
The stats clearly show that cops are doing their jobs and by a massive margin (something like 98%) are good people trying to protect the innocent from criminals. Your chances of being shot by a Cop on the job are miniscule. Your chances of being shot by a cop resisting arrest during a felony or high risk arrest (like a Swatting) are much higher.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
Please cite this recent history with cops of which you speak... The hands up don't shoot bullshit in Ferguson turned out to be a complete lie based on multiple testimony by eyewitness blacks who were too scared initially to come forward.
The factual statistics show that your odds of being shot by a cop are actually very low. If you are compliant it is virtually zero (your odds of dying from a bee are higher). Resisting arrest on the other hand will get you shot more often.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
Your will never get shot for looking at the cops, especially if your hands are going up slowly. Cops care about what your hands are doing, not your eyes.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
Please cite your evidence that police and especially SWAT (who execute felony warrants all the time) are not properly trained. What qualifications or special evidence do you have that the rest of the world does not, because the facts do not support you irresponsible, inaccurate assertion.
According to the FBI UCR, the total number of arrests (not traffic stops but arrests) in 2015 was 10,797,088. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-t... Out of all those arrests, approximately 965 were fatally shot. Of those, 564 were armed with a gun, 281 had a weapon of some kind, only 90 were unarmed and essentially all of them were attacking officers, resisting arrest or attempting to flee.
OTOH, there have only been about 54 unjustified police killings in the last 10 years, or about 5 per year So the actual numbers say if you are being arrested, you have a roughly 5 in 11 million chance of being unjustifiably killed by police. I will take those odds any day.
So you live in your fantasy world where 5 unjustified killings per year makes 11 million arrests super dangerous and the cops are loose cannons who are going to shoot you on sight. I will live in the real world where statistics are a thing and cops are still the good guys.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
You freeze and wait for clarification. Slowly put your hands on your head and interlace your fingers. The thing that gets most people shot is what they do with their hands. Your odds of being shot with your hands on your head are essentially zero. Put them there and leave them there until you are in handcuffs. Let the police get your ID and search you before moving your hands from that pose (we are talking about a felony arrest here where the cops think you could be guilty of a serious crime, not your average traffic stop). If you make quick movements or move your hands closer to pockets or other out of view concealment where a weapon might be, your odds of getting shot skyrocket, though these days you are more likely to get tasered.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
So you are saying that the repeat criminal who is more likely to be armed and/or resist arrest is less likely to be shot by SWAT than Joe Sixpack? Please cite your statistical evidence for this. This kind of talking out your ass is what actually gets people shot.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
My statement above will be life saving if followed by half the idiots who posted on this thread who think the cops are murdering savages who shoot people for the fun of it. Cops do exercise restraint, but they are also people who want to go home to their families, and when they enter a felony warrant/active threat situation, they anticipate encountering lethal force from the bad guys. Restraint in that situation will get them killed. So they are looking for two things: threats and victims. They are prepared to shoot threats and protect victims, because even a fraction of a second hesitation might mean their life or the life of a partner or a victim's life. Are they perfect? No, but they do a hell of a job that is quite difficult, and if you are ever in an active shooter or hostage situation, you will be praying for SWAT to save your ass, and if you make it out alive, chances are you will have them to thank.
The issue at hand (SWATing) should be made a federal crime equivalent to attempted murder (or murder if anyone dies) and we should have tools in place such that any phone call placed to emergency lines is traceable back to it's actual origin, and anyone who performs a swating should be prosecuted very publicly, so that word gets around it is no joke and not worth the chance you will get caught.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
Interesting about the modding. One thing I am not is a master of puppets. I don't even bother to mod or metamod and haven't in, pfft, maybe 10 years or more? 15? And you can see from my comment history that I don't have a legion of vigilant fans to defend my honor.
https://slashdot.org/users.pl?...
I'm guessing it was the rabid anti-authoritarian mindset here responding to your suggestion #1.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
A repeat criminal who has had many contacts with the police is not going to just open the door to a SWAT raid and stand there waving his arms with his mouth open. He knows all about assuming the position and never doing anything that might be construed by a badly trained, roided-up donut muncher as being a reach for his waistband.
The stastistical likelihood is that I and the vast majority of everyone will never be in a shooter/hostage situation. But what I *have* experienced is being very unjustly hassled by power-tripping cops taking out their personal issues on me... and I'm white and well-educated. To support a statement like "the cops are in general doing a great job" would be a long philosophical chase down a rat hole with cherrypicked stats from questionable sources, but I do have plenty of firsthand data to say they've treated me and others I've known terribly shabbily. So when something goes bad like this swatting disaster, it has plenty of traction with people who've already seen that cops are twits. With their multiple insane flat-out murders, rapes, coverups, evidence tamperings, and misappropriations (all of which are widely publicly documented), cops are LOSING whatever public confidence they once had as an institution. They should be paying attention to that, for everyone's sake including their own. If cops want to make my life genuinely better, get off the powertrip horse and be a human being... and (until that day) they'd better NOT for the love of god come crying to me when people hate them, because I will have no kind words for them.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
So you met one cop on a bad day (the guy he arrested before you probably puked on him) and you judge all 900,000 cops to be guilty of "multiple insane flat-out murders, rapes, coverups, evidence tamperings, and misappropriations." I am sorry that you had a bad experience, but that hardly indicates reality. Police officers are far less likely to commit crimes than the general public, but they are still humans and have bad days, and some small few will become criminals (which is what IA is for).
What we need in this country is for all of the foolish people who think the cops are a net evil to sign a waver. You can bitch on the cops all you want, but this waiver also takes you off their list, so when someone is breaking into your house at 3am, or your neighbor hears someone beating you to death with a baseball bat, they don't come to your rescue, often risking their lives in the process.
The police are people, just like you and I and most of them have families that they want to make it home to at the end of their shift. I grew up next door to a cop. I played with his kids, and sometimes he would tell us stories. He had seen a lot of crazy things in his career, and survived multiple close calls. If a cop didn't treat you any better than anyone else, I'm sorry, but it doesn't mean cops are bad, it might mean your parents didn't raise you to respect authority. Cops have a difficult job to do, don't make it harder for them, and don't be surprised if you don't get special treatment because you are white or "educated"...
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
What we need in this country is for all of the foolish people who think the cops are a net evil to sign a waver. You can bitch on the cops all you want, but this waiver also takes you off their list, so when someone is breaking into your house at 3am, or your neighbor hears someone beating you to death with a baseball bat, they don't come to your rescue, often risking their lives in the process.
oh DO shut up
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.