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Some Smartphone Salesmen Aren't Sold on the iPhone X (cnet.com)
A CNET reporter visited four carrier stores to ask their salesmen if they'd recommend an iPhone X. But after visiting stores for Sprint, T-Mobile, AT&T, and Verizon, "I couldn't even find a salesperson to tell me it was the best iPhone I could buy." So he finally tried asking three salesmen at Apple Stores -- and still got equivocal answers. An anonymous reader quotes CNET's report:
"Well, it depends on what you like," the salesman said, somewhat coyly. "The biggest problem I have with it is using Face ID for Apple Pay. You really have to put the phone at a certain angle or it doesn't work." He started with a problem. I was already suspicious. I was in something of a hurry, but I asked him: "So are you selling a lot more of these than other phones?"
He turned into a high-ranking member of a political party. "All our phones sell well," he said. Which sounded not entirely reassuring. Indeed, it sounded like a "no."
Chatting next with an Apple store "Genius" (who was testing his iPhone 6), CNET's reporter was told that "The X and the 8 are the same phone... Inside, I mean. With the X, you're just paying the extra money for the design." Unfortunately, that salesman's $999 iPhone X was wrapped in an ugly pink case, because after four weeks he'd already cracked it. And a third Apple salesman -- who touted the glories of an OLED screen -- also kept his iPhone X in a case at all times "It's glass," he explained. "You'll definitely need a case."
"But what about not being able to see the lovely phone?"
"Get a see-through case," he replied with a smile.
He turned into a high-ranking member of a political party. "All our phones sell well," he said. Which sounded not entirely reassuring. Indeed, it sounded like a "no."
Chatting next with an Apple store "Genius" (who was testing his iPhone 6), CNET's reporter was told that "The X and the 8 are the same phone... Inside, I mean. With the X, you're just paying the extra money for the design." Unfortunately, that salesman's $999 iPhone X was wrapped in an ugly pink case, because after four weeks he'd already cracked it. And a third Apple salesman -- who touted the glories of an OLED screen -- also kept his iPhone X in a case at all times "It's glass," he explained. "You'll definitely need a case."
"But what about not being able to see the lovely phone?"
"Get a see-through case," he replied with a smile.
http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-...
#DeleteFacebook
You can't really argue much that Apple pushed at the right time with the right product with the right app infrastructure, support etc. iPhones were king mainly because of the app store and how easy it was to use. Noone could even compare (no they couldn't) and Droids, or whatever they were called were lackluster in support, the apps were trash and the app stores were trash. Hell they couldn't even agree on the same os to support things. Apple succeeded because it had all that.
Fast forward to today. Apple has lost that edge. They've also lost the vision people have when using their smartphones. They are moving back to their roots where "Apple knows best" except now... there are much better offerings. I'll be honest, I've been an Apple phone guy since iPhone 4 and bought a 5, 6 and 7. It ended with 8 and their "we know best" removal of ports, constant fighting with app developers and trying to control the playing field when it's not their field anymore.
The X was the real shining moment that Apple was completely out of touch with what the majority of people want. Followed up by the bonehead move involving the batteries. Apple is struggling as people aren't playing ball with them anymore and instead of accepting what they are giving... now demand something better.
I honestly have no idea what my next phone will be but I know for sure it won't be an iPhone. They aren't even close to the best phone anymore.
I'd like to think I'm past the "ooh, I want the new shiny" thing - more or less. Going forward, my "new phone" budget is going to be roughly $500, and it's going to be spent every 3-4 years.
But, in any case, this reads like a hit piece. "Tech writer goes into a story with an agenda, manages to confirm it."
#DeleteChrome
As of this weekend, that word no longer means what you think it does.
You are welcome on my lawn.
End of this month is Apple’s quarterly earnings call, which will include the commercial effect of iphone X. Then we will know whether they were succesful or not. I still see people queuing to pick up their X at the local Applestore, hence my bet is on it being a commercial success, despite cherry-picked negative articles on slashdot.
"Droids, or whatever they were called were lackluster in support, the apps were trash and the app stores were trash."
The IOS "pull my finger" app is _so_ much better than the Droid one that it's not even fair to compare them.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
If you donâ(TM)t understand how they are compâ(TM)d and which product sales make them the most money then their advice is at Best suspect and probably worthless. That being said I would guess a lot of people are going to wait out the X and see how it shakes out. New interface, new security, new case. Thereâ(TM)s a lot of Delta in the product to deal with.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
Apple has lost its edge mainly by succumbing to its own "function follows form" dogma. The main features of any iPhone are sleekness and thinness, which both compromise functionality.
Cases are a necessity because these devices are designed to be fragile, gouging the customer again for the case itself and/or the inevitable repair/replacement of the device.
It's a vicious scam, and unfortunately every handset OEM is convinced they must follow Apple's lead.
On moving some garbage LG phones is really going to push iPhones that he makes $0 on. More at 11.
While I do have two issues with FaceID, and a couple others regarding the missing home button... it is impossible for me to believe this story. The screen is a huge selling point, and you get the same real-estate as a plus but in the smaller form factor. FaceID is great for trivial security and for securing the phone.
So, my complaints: I am not comfortable with FaceID for securing banking passwords... but it is too secure for storing my /. password; I can't use FaceID while laying on my side in bed. For the home button, the inconsistencies between devices now is a pain.
But hell.... it is the best phone I have owned.
Explain why I care what a sales-weasel thinks?
A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
Durability, longevity and quality are not terms one can use with any smartphone vendor.
Speak for Apple. There are plenty of solid Android products that come to mine, Moto is a shining example, solid as a rock. My LG/Nexus 4, with glass both sides, survived an arc through the air onto solid concrete with nothing more than a chipped corner, now 5 years old and still in service.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
The lack of Bezel and presence of Face ID make it a non starter for many and the price hurts it too. I can scan my fingerprint very easily.
The stereo minijack is missing.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
have a better spiff. These are sales people. If the Windows phones had a better spiff they'd be singing their praise.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
iPhones are still really the king of the smartphone world but they are more the Microsoft Windows of the smartphone world. They have a vast array of applications and the user experience is pretty consistent across their devices which makes it easy for users.
Their flagship, "best we can do" phone is really just a copy of the Essential Phone's design and having a fingerprint reader, even if it was relegated to the back of the phone, would have made sense particularly for things like Apple Pay and for unlocking the phone when you don't want to bring it up in front of your face.
My next phone will most likely still be an iPhone simply because I see no reason to switch, everything works fine and there's no really compelling alternative - maybe I just have a relatively boring or average set of requirements for a smartphone - but if they are continuing this path it will be the iPhone 9 (or whatever they call the successor to the iPhone 8) rather than whatever the next iPhone X.
The 7 lost the headphone port. That's when they lost me.
A phone that has a shatter proof screen, is waterproof, has user replaceable batteries and is not a portable spying device for every company and its government. What I want is a commercial failure.
X and 8 plus actually. Both have two cameras but the 8+ has only one image stabilizer, the X has 2.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
I bought the iPhone X and think it's one of the better phone upgrades in some time. Because of FaceID it is the first phone in a while that feels like a real jump from a previous model instead of incremental improvement. For me I prefer generally how FaceID works generally over TouchID, which includes ApplePay... FaceID works without conscious thought, so it feels like you are using a phone with no passcode.
I will agree that the X is slippery, but I still use it without a case in day to day life. However traveling with it I still plan to use a case.
There is no way going forward I would buy a phone that did not have FaceID. I was planning to upgrade an iPad but I'm going to wait until that supports FaceID as well... If they do that they will need to support more than one person though.
I've seen people claiming the sales were lower than expected but I'm pretty sure that will not be the case since the pre-order wait times were really long compared to other phones.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This silly idea of Apple ever having an edge on phones comes from the fact that American carriers had long cockblocked Nokia. The original iPhone was a sleek-looking featurephone that could not hold a candle to the true flagship smartphone of that year, the N95.
I'm trying to imagine the person who goes "This screen doesn't have a bezel? But that's the best part of the phone! No sale!!"
I read the internet for the articles.
Microsoft refused to give out extra spiffs. I don't think it was for the sake of propriety; just arrogance. Still, it meant the only way to get a Win phone was to look in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Don't you mean salesperchild?
I actually love my bezel and think it's a highly attractive feature. I want to be able to easily place the phone face done and have no light leak, or to hold it firmly without accidentally pressing anything. I like that I can place a stand that grips it for a tripod, and that if it somehow slips from my hand it has less of a chance to smash directly on the face.
Most people I know with their bezelless Samsungs have put cases that, guess what, makes a bezel. Yet another reason to stick with my 6s.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
At least with Windows I could create a program to run an alarm with a decent snooze function. Apple got this idea that an old style of snooze in mechanical alarm clocks that set 9 minutes for the snooze time was the only thing users ever needed and would never want to snooze for 5 minutes or 15 minutes. You could install another alarm, but with their lock hold on background apps it has to be literally the last program you use before going to sleep, and to hell with you if you happen to check email or Facebook just before turning off the light and forget to bring the alarm app back up.
I'm thinking my next phone will probably be a Samsung, or some other Android and not an Apple.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
I think THE issue with the iPhone comes down to the silly high price for the phone. US$1,149 for the 256 GB version makes even the Samsung Galaxy Note 8 look like a bargain in comparison.
Taking off a glove to get TouchID going is a lot less work than taking off my helmet to get FaceID working.
Counterpoint: Far more people (myself included) benefit from being able to use touch-enabled gloves in winter and being able to unlock the phone without taking them off...
But I don't I understand why you think a helmet would prevent your face from unlocking the phone. If IR light can get through the visor FaceID can read your face even in a full helmet.
With TouchID, I put my finger on the reader as I pull the phone out of my pocket
I'm really confused as to why it's easier to remove a glove (that you may easily lose) than lifting a visor or raising your helmet (which, again, you should not even have to do).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That "real jump" is just a slightly fancier kind of facial recognition, which has been around for years.
No - there is a HUGE difference in what FaceID is doing, because it is actually reasonable secure unlike every previous use of facial recognition to unlock things - simply because it cannot be fooled by an image. An image of a face is super easily obtained (especially these days when we handily provide other people with many examples to choose from and print). FaceID does not work at all with an image, and as Apple showed even 3d-printed masks of your face are not enough to unlock the phone. Only a near-clone of your facial features in another human will (sometimes) work.
FaceID is the first facial recognition system I consider secure and usable enough to lock away truly important information - and in fact it's even more secure than TouchID was. But people didn't go around trying everyone else's fingers with their device to find that out... even so, TouchID was secure enough for me so FaceID is simply improved on that. As far as usability unlike other facial recognition systems it works even in pitch black environments, where nothing would be able to read an image of your face properly.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
He said it was corner cases.
For me FaceID works more often than TouchID does (and I know for sure because for testing reasons I often still use my iPhone 7).
In fact the X is great precisely because it REMOVES a lot of small annoyances you didn't even know were present in phones. Like I said in another post using an X feels like using an unlocked phone, in a way TouchID never did (even though TouchID did make it much easier to unlock a phone).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Face ID and the missing home button are a poor compromise
The thing is, it's not a compromise at all. The way the iPhone X works is the way phones should work, period. It is WAY BETTER than a home button or virtual home buttons were. Going back to using a home button based device like an iPad or older iPhone just feels archaic now, the gesture based controls are easier for everyone to work with and the way you activate control center actually works 100% of the time now (before pulling up from bottom edge would sometimes not bring up control center if the keyboard was also up, really annoying).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I had a Nokia E65 back then, which was much smaller and had less features than the N95 and still was better than the iPhone. The first usable iPhone was the 4.
-- Cheers!
Irrespective of which phone is better and which company innovates more. When asking a sales person which item to buy take into account the margin and commission on the sale that may drive their answer
I stick with Apple for the time being. Too many security and other problems with Android.
-- Cheers!
1, maximum.
If I had a kid and she broke her expensive toy, I sure as hell wouldn't be buying her a second one.
Bullshit. I've been using Sleep Cycle on the iPhone for 5 years and it suffers from exactly zero if the problems you described.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
That's contrary to what this report says.
First, when pricing phones and doing comparisons -- include the total cost of ownership of each of those models. People often get hung up on a device costing $100 or $200 more as being 15% to 25% more. I am use to not having a plan in the country I am living in (and total cost is considerably less than my home country of Canada). Phones should typically last 4 years (even sell the phone and get a new one; or recycle it through the family) with being reasonably useful - so that is typically what I use for total cost. In Canada where the market is very costly this could mean over those 4 years you are spending $4,000 on a plan for that phone.... so if a phone costs $600 - your total cost of ownership is $4,600, or more. So in the end being cheap about the actual device is not saving a whole lot of money.
Most people usually have a strong preference (Android or iPhone) -- my case I prefer my iPhone. If you are an Android user I would probably give preference to a Pixel phone just because a lot of vendors are slow (at most) on updating the phone with the new version or security updates.
At this point you have probably narrowed down your choice - and you probably know what you use your phone for. If you use your phone alot and it is a very important device, just chose the best phone that you can buy at the time that suits your needs.
All sales people have their own preferences and unfortunately most are swayed by choices other than what the consumer is actually telling them (be it higher commission for a given supplier, or their own device preferences). If they sound like they are not making sense -- it is probably because they are not thinking of what your needs are.
Here almost every store (carrier or retailer) will favour a specific manufacturer - it could be as simple as they commission that they make is higher for a given manufacturer because of incentives -- or it could just be what they are familiar with and are therefore more comfortable selling. Bias is normal and pretending it does not exist -- just makes you an easy target.
iPhones sold because of the app store? There were NO third-party apps at launch. That was something Apple hastily retrofitted in later, because people were demanding it.
The iPhone was successful because it had a well-designed full touchscreen, and it didn't look like it was designed by and for geeks.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
what helps ultra thin and glass fluff when you need to make it thicker and ugly with a case? Better get a real phone, that is less fragile, and use the extra mm for prolonged battery life, ..!
If they had pulled off the sapphire glass manufacture... this phone could have been far from fragile. They took a gamble and lost... and the phone we have now is the runner-up to the phone of the future. The amaze-balls thing would be if Apple has come up with the sapphire glass but just needed more time and the Gorilla Glass is just to bide the time [crosses fingers]. Can you imagine a sapphire glass iPhone?! That would be pretty sweet.
really? I haven't dealt with one of those guys since, ever. Phone salesmen went away with dumb phones, and much like car salesmen, I don't really miss them.
I figure out what I want and go buy it from whoever has it for cheapest. I have 0 interest in a salesman getting in the way.
hmmm... been one hand using my Android phones for years. I'm curious how Apple broke the one-handed experience so badly that they can convince someone like you that $1000 is worth being able to use the phone with one hand.
What have one handed parapalegics been doing all these years without the iPhone X?
Salespeople will be working on a commission, most likely. These can vary from company to company and brand to brand. There also will be given an extra bonus if they sell X of that and Y of that.
So it could be that the kickback for that week or even month from another company was higher. Because if they would be honest, they would say to NOT buy a phone at all, as the one you have now is good enough to do what you need it to do if bought in the last 5 years or so.
Just change the battery and move on.
I have seen phone salespeople not wanting to sell a specific phone, because it was work for them and they would get 1EUR out of it. Not worth their time.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Cases are a necessity because these devices are designed to be fragile
I don't know if that's fair. Shortly after the first iPhone was released, it became evident that people kept cracking the screen, and people started buying cases. People buy cases for pretty much every smart phone, not just Apple's. But people still like their phones to be as thin and light as possible, so that's what Apple provides.
unfortunately every handset OEM is convinced they must follow Apple's lead.
It kind of works both ways. I think one of the worst design decisions that Apple's made with the iPhone is to go big. In my personal view, the iPhone SE is still the "right size" for a phone to be, but Apple saw that big Android phones were selling, so they had to mimic it.
"Well, it depends on what you like," the salesman said, somewhat coyly.
Honestly, I don't see why this is anything about the correct answer. Which phone you should buy *does* depend on what you like. You want a small iPhone? The iPhone SE is for you. You want a cheap iPhone? Again, the iPhone SE. You want one of those giant iPhones? The iPhone 8 Plus is a good choice. You want a solid Android phone? Maybe the Google Pixel 2 is a good option?
The iPhone X is a good option if you're looking for Apple's bleeding-edge phone, and have no qualms paying a premium for it. Apple said at launch that they were calling it the iPhone X (X being the roman numeral for 10) because it was what they thought the future iPhone would look like. They marketed buying the iPhone X like if you were buying a concept car. It's cool and future-looking, but expensive and maybe not thoroughly tested and thought-out. Whether that's bullshit or not, my point is that they didn't even market it as "This is the phone for everyone." They marketed it as, "This is the phone for the people who want the latest coolest thing. Otherwise, get one of our normal phones."
The X was the real shining moment that Apple was completely out of touch with what the majority of people want.
Actually that is exactly wrong. The X is exactly what the MAJORITY of people want.
The reason is FaceID is just better. It is better in the winter when the majority of people use gloves, but no longer need to take them off to unlock the phone.
It is better for the elderly where the majority of people have fingerprints that become harder to read with age, but have faces that grow more distinctive as decades pass.
The majority of people of all ages would rather have a phone that does not have a passcode. In practice, that is what the iPhone feels like - as if you are using a phone with no passcode.
And the thing is, Apple is years ahead with FaceID, there is enough technology there it's not like TouchID where other phones makers could buy pretty good fingerprint sensors and have the same ability. Maybe Samsung can deliver FaceID in a year or two... maybe.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'd rather have a decent bezel then need a case.
But there are plenty of counter examples where it is worse than TouchID, like paying at a credit card terminal,
Since I have an X I have actually done this. Have you? I found it EASIER TO DO than to use TouchID, because I just held the phone to the terminal and it was unlocked before I thought about it, and the payment was complete. The experience was great, again echoing my thought that FaceID is like using an unlocked phone, things just work with the device before you think about what to do.
And what do you gain from losing the fingerprint sensor and the home button?
Vastly better usability over any other Android or iPhone.
And as the AC who replied earlier said, it's far easier to take a glove off than a motorcycle helmet
As the video I posted showed, FaceID works through a helmet so....
or any time your face may be obscured enough that it can't identify you.
Which is almost never, or at least vastly less than the times TouchID does not work because your fingers are really sweaty, or your finger is not well positioned.
Now with FaceID you can't unlock your phone without having to look at it, either.
Yeah because I so often want to use my phone without looking at it at all.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's bonkers I spend about 150$ a year on phone and it is plenty for keeping in touch with teenage kids
love is just extroverted narcissism
Jony Ive oversaw Apple's last decline. Is there any reason for surprise?
I'd rather need a case and then have a decent bezel
That is very false. It was obvious that iphone was something completely different. No custom apps? No problem, N95 had complete shit ones anyway. Default apps? iphone had those miles better, easier to use and much nicer to look at. The display was huge at the time. But the most important thing was the internet browser. It was a desktop one while Nokia had a browser which looked like it was made in WW2.
The revolutionary stuff was that you could have the whole internet in your pocket which was pretty much unthinkable at the time. The iphone 2G started a snowball, and brought much much cheaper data plans and phones which a lot of people use as primary "computers". It really does deserve credit where credit is due.
Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
At that rate, you probably are not using the phone very much at all and probably don't even need a smart phone. You are more the exception in this society today.
Wow. Do they at least buy you dinner first? I spend about $25 for Google Fi each month, taxes included. I use very little data because since most of the time I'm in WiFi areas. My kids cost me $15 per month each for unlimited talk/text with no data on Republic Wireless. We all have recent smartphones (Not Apple) and if I were really interested in lots of data, I could get Straight Talk on AT&T's towers for $45 per month (Unlimited talk/text and 10GB unthrottled data). Some of us don't see spending $1,000 per year for a single line phone service or $1,100 for a phone as a good value for our money.
I don't think the App Store was retrofitted in hastily. I think it was part of the plan all along. Jobs said you didn't need third-party apps at first, and he was reasonably close to correct - with web apps, you don't need many native apps, and Jobs wasn't going to push native apps until they were available.
The original iPhone was easy to use. It had a decent browser, decent email, and even worked as a phone.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Insightful a.f... I felt that the iPhone X was Apple jumping the shark, but to put that in historical context, especially from the perspective of a former iPhone diehard... Bravo. You can bet Apple's going to turn hard towards monetizing everything, ever more planned obsolescence and other shitty practices to keep shareholders fed with the money they're used to. Gotta keep the slope on that graph steep enough. It will likely be a slow decline for Apple, but this is the beginning, and these are the forces that will drive it.
Thanks for that information.
My comment is from articles like this:
https://arstechnica.com/gadget...
Kriston
Not really on /. though most people here spend their day behind a computer, what is the point of an expensive phone? Also you say I am an exception... who really 'needs' a smartphone today? Most people use it as a toy.
love is just extroverted narcissism
I take it you hate every smartphone on the planet.
-- Cheers!
Nothing in particular an Android phone wouldn't suffice for. Switching just means going through the hassle of downloading all the Android versions of the applications, setting up various accounts, somehow transferring SMS/MMS/iMessage messages across, etc...
If the iPhone devolves further into a form over function annoyance from a usability perspective then I would consider going through the hassle to switch.