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BMW's Apple CarPlay Annual Fee is Next-level Gouging (cnet.com)
BMW announced this week that the company plans to shift Apple CarPlay infotainment support from a one-time fee to a subscription service. Tim Stevens, writing about the implications of the move for CNET: While GM and other manufacturers happily include Apple's CarPlay service for free even on their most attainable models, BMW and plenty of others have levied upgrade fees to enable CarPlay, or bundled the service inside pricey packages of widgets you may or may not want. That, sadly, is par for this margin-rich golf course, but when we learned this week that BMW would change from a single, up-front fee to an annual fee, in my mind that changed everything. Instead of a one-time, $300 fee, starting on 2019 models BMW will charge $80 annually for the privilege of accessing Apple's otherwise totally free CarPlay service. You do get the first year free, much like your friendly neighborhood dealer of another sort, but after that it's pay up or have your Lightning cable metaphorically snipped.
On the surface this is pretty offensive, and it seemed like something must be driving this. The official word from BMW is that this is a change that will save many (perhaps most) BMW owners money. Indeed, the vehicle segments where BMW plays are notorious for short-term leases, and those owning the car for only a few years will save money over that one-time $300. But still, the notion of paying annually for something that's free rubbed me the wrong way. And, based on the feedback we saw from the article, it rubbed a lot of you the wrong way, too.
On the surface this is pretty offensive, and it seemed like something must be driving this. The official word from BMW is that this is a change that will save many (perhaps most) BMW owners money. Indeed, the vehicle segments where BMW plays are notorious for short-term leases, and those owning the car for only a few years will save money over that one-time $300. But still, the notion of paying annually for something that's free rubbed me the wrong way. And, based on the feedback we saw from the article, it rubbed a lot of you the wrong way, too.
Oh no, a whole $80 a month! I bet you spend four times that on an oil change.
Carplay isn't a service. It's a pair of software programs, one runs in your car - the other on your phone. Bizarre. BMW must want their customers to switch to Android, maybe they have an investment in Google or one of the Android handset manufacturers.
You have to pay for BMW Assist and navigation updates too. If you don't like it don't buy the car. It's easy.
Gouging is the dealer charging $500 to code and install a new battery, or $1000/axle to have the brakes done. The people complaining about this don't have BMWs.
All new Audis have CarPlay support. My A4 has a CarPlay and supports Android Auto too.
Other luxury brands that also have it without a recurring fee:
https://www.apple.com/ios/carp...
Mercedes
Volvo
Alfa Romeo
Porsche
Lincoln
Cadillac
Bentley
Astin Martin
Just don't buy a BMW -- the other brands are generally better cars anyway. Audis are awesome.
- Vincit qui patitur.
I'm not sure even leases come out ahead here. Although the lessee doesn't get the full value of carplay over the lifetime of the vehicle, they also don't pay for the entire vehicle- only the depreciation on the vehicle for the period of the lease plus a profit margin. So, while it added $300 to the vehicle cost, it probably only added around $100 to the total lease payments over 3-years. Under this scheme, a 3-year lessee will pay $160 to have carplay for the duration.
I wonder if BMW drivers would use turn signals if they were Apple branded and cost more?
Well, people have the same kind of complaint that luxury hotels charge their customers for wifi access (who are already paying top $ for the room). It's a price discrimination, willingness to pay thing.
Separately, BMW is falling way behind in awareness of consumer preferences for technology. They're relegating the product ownership of this stuff to a stepchild, while consumers are actually viewing it one of the core experiences of driving now. This is a mistake.
...unless you're a socialist.
The issue I have is that I can buy a $30k Japanese car and have 100k miles of absolutely...zero...problems. So I should be able to buy a $60k German car and have the luxury features, with absolutely...zero...problems. Though that does not exist. I don't why why the hell they can't pull it off.
While GM is offering Android Auto & Carplay on most of their cars, they are starting to introduce ads into their infotainment. Just another reason to disconnect the onstar modem if tracking your ever move weren't enough.
Carplay isn't a service. It's a pair of software programs, one runs in your car - the other on your phone. Bizarre. BMW must want their customers to switch to Android, maybe they have an investment in Google or one of the Android handset manufacturers.
Actually the head end has very little software, it's just like a hardware VNC. The UI is entirely dependent on iOS or Android. It also means bug fixes and enhancements to the UI come with OS updates.
For BMW to charge $80/mo is pure larceny.
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Hey, centuries ago called. News papers, news broadcasts, and news websites contain, and have contained for decades editorial content. This is nothing new, or nefarious. The headline calls out that this is a commentary piece, not a news piece.
So no radios, either? Or AC/heaters? Those are much more distracting (more buttons, below my touch screen and requires eyes off the road) than CarPlay.
They says that for leases, the 'pay per year' method is cheaper, but let's boil that down.
On a three year least, with the 'pay per year' method, you'll pay $0 for your first year and $80 for each of your next two years. So $160 total.
If you leased the car with the one-time $300 fee, you don't pay $300. You pay Sales Price minus Residual. And the residual on some of these cars is up to ~60% of sales price. So lets say that the residual on a BMW is 58%, that means Car Play would have cost you $300* 0.42 = $126! Still cheaper! You'd have to have a residual less than 47% for the new method to be worth it.
Have you ever seen a rich person not bitching and moaning when he was supposed to pay a nickel extra?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Have you ever seen the cost of repairing anything on a BMW?
Oh, you took it to a non-BWM approved place for an oil change once? There goes your warranty.
Turn off all the 'entertainment center' bullshit.
Yeah, you tell 'em! Drive in complete silence, that'll make everything perfect. Better put those kids, spouses, and pets in the trunk too, don't want them distracting you.
A car should not be a lifestyle choice, it should be transportation.
And you better not get one damn bit of enjoyment out of driving your car either. This is an exercise in utility, you're not allowed to make this experience more bearable.
Quit being spoiled babies that need a bunch of toys.
Quit worrying about how other people live their lives, and I bet yours will improve too.
Way back in the day, one of the many reasons I went with the PS3 vs the Xbox360, was that they didn't require an anual fee to access services that were not provided by their network (youtube, netflix, etc...)
Way back in the before times, I had a Blackberry provided by my employer. It was on Verizon. The device had GPS hardware built in, and Google Maps was already a thing. But as soon as I activated with Verizon, they remotely disabled the GPS. For an additional $4.95/month I could have "Blackberry Navigation", which was a worse implementation of Google Maps.
Nope, no sig
You’d be stupid for buying a BMW anyway. Nothing wrong with a luxury car, but “German Engineering” has an abysmal record of reliability and high maintenance. BMW knows they can stick it to the suckers.
I really don't understand where BMW is going with this move. It's really got to piss off their car buyers, or they'll just do what I used to do before CarPlay - just put the phone on a mount, and use it directly with voice commands and the occasional tap. Which will result in more crashes, I'm sure.
A real dick move by BMW.
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You apparently need to go and sit in a Volvo. They are most definitely luxury cars, at least on a par with Audi and BMW, though not on a par with Porsche and Bentley.
This isn't Apple - they don't charge for CarPlay. I don't pay anything extra for it in my Kia.
If BMW was interested in making Carplay more palatable to those who lease, they'd eliminate the fee altogether. Making people pay for integration with an infotainment system that has a UI so terrible it's legendary while it's totally free on the most "pedestrian" vehicles is beyond stupid/greedy.
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
We don't?
No sale, then, absolutely.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Were you aware that multiple stations are available by turning the dial? And that there's no problem with making this adjustment while driving?
It's not Apple charging this recurring fee.. it's BMW. No other car maker (that I know of) does this or intends to.
"Oh, you took it to a non-BWM approved place for an oil change once? There goes your warranty."
In the United States, that's illegal. They can't force you to use the dealer for service nor can they force you to use OEM parts.
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
This isn't Apple - they don't charge for CarPlay. I don't pay anything extra for it in my Kia.
See my comment above. The article says that BMW is claiming this is a flowdown of an Apple fee.
You don't get rich by indiscriminately squandering your money...
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
You’d be stupid for buying a BMW anyway. Nothing wrong with a luxury car, but “German Engineering” has an abysmal record of reliability and high maintenance. BMW knows they can stick it to the suckers.
I really don't understand where BMW is going with this move. It's really got to piss off their car buyers, or they'll just do what I used to do before CarPlay - just put the phone on a mount, and use it directly with voice commands and the occasional tap. Which will result in more crashes, I'm sure.
It's going to piss off the 1% of potential customers. The other 99% don't give a shit. They're already being ripped off buying an overpriced car, $80/year isn't shit to the average BMW owner. BMW knows this, which is why they're doing it.
A real dick move by BMW.
That dick move is being done everywhere. You'll soon be paying a monthly subscription model for smart TV, iFridge, e-Oven, and smart car. You won't own any software running on the gutted phablet-puter of the future. Everything will run in the cloud, and you'll pay the SaaS mafia to access it.
The concept of one-time fee and ownership, will soon be extinct, all because consumers don't give a shit enough to care to save it.
As the new "features" of cars become more and more software-based, I expect monthly subscription fee presence to become more and more universal. It is a lot easier to enable a feature implemented in software (just toggle a flag), than it is to bring the car back to the dealer and install a feature that requires hardware. So as the focus of features becomes the dashboard display and the software that enables it, the car manufacturers are only going to exploit those features more and more for their monthly revenue stream.
Nothing wrong with a luxury car, but “German Engineering” has an abysmal record of reliability and high maintenance
This is a relatively recent trend in the industry. It used to be widely known as a safe bet to buy a German, beaten only by some select Japanese cars for reliability. Alas...
You've not owned a BMW in the last few decades. Drove a 2008 328i to over 125,000 miles and didn't have a single problem. According to Consumer Reports, Toyota and Lexus are #1 and #2 (but mind you, are the same company). Meanwhile, Audi and BMW are 4 and 5 and are actually separate companies. IMO, they'd be higher if they didn't have the high performance models (S4, M3, etc.). My M3 did have a few things go wrong, but they really push the engine, etc. to the limit.
BMW cars with CarPlay capability still retains BMW's existing smartphone interface. If you don't subscribe to CarPlay you can still use bluetooth integration or connect the phone via USB and get playlists, album art, siri with the steering wheel, etc.
I'm guessing it will play out a bit like the TiVo on DirecTV situation. By the time they had worked out the TiVo HD DVR solution, the "native" DVR was feature-rich enough few could justify the cost premium. And that's not saying that TiVo wasn't better, it just wasn't better enough to justify a premium fee. I suspect BMW customers will see the same thing here. What is CarPlay really buying that they can't do with the normal BMW interface?
I still think it's a shitty move too, though. I really loathe subscription models.
You could argue that BMW drivers don't deserve this, but Apple users certainly do.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Germans tend to over-engineer things and jump on all the latest tech, and Japanese tend to be very conservative and wait a while. So the Japanese cars usually aren't as cutting-edge as the German or even American cars.
The main problem with Japanese cars is that their infotainment tech is usually behind the others. Mazda and Toyota don't even have CarPlay or Android Auto available on their systems. The Germans have probably been doing infotainment longer than anyone else, so their systems are usually touted as the best.
Today I was looking into buying a car radio with Appleplay and Android Auto.
So I found a Pioneer radio and did a bit of googling to see what people says about it and I discovered that it had problems with IOS 11.
https://www.pioneer-car.eu/eur...
Now this radio was a new radio released in 2017 so one would assume that a update would fix it, but I have been unable to find any evidence that the issue have been resolved.(and I need a 1-din radio of which there are few options)
So apparently now your radio needs software updates to stay useful and keep functioning with the same feature set and I am guessing BMW wants money to keep programming and delivering software updates?
L'Idiot
So you listen to shitty 00s/10s Top-40 pop music, or worse, redneck rock (aka "country")?
There isn't anything else on the radio in most places.
It's an interface! Hack the fucker and put Android Auto on it!
According to the article, Apple is changing their fee structure so the cost is being passed onto the customer. Besides if you lease a BMW car, $300 for a 3 year lease is more expensive than 1 year free and 2 years @ $80 each year.
Presumably you understand that you are buying a BMW and how much you will be wasting upfront and on maintenance/fuel costs. And that you can have "CarPlay" for $10 one time investment.. Let's not even go into Apple tax. If money is not an object for you, what do you care either way on buy vs subscribe? All things being equal, I would go for subscription. A lot of things could change by the time a purchase would break even in 4 years - I may not drive the same car, I may not use iPhone (I don't know, but I also may not in future) or CarPlay hardware/software may change without good support from BMW. At least subscription revenue might motivate BMW to offer support and upgrades. Not like with the useless 30 pin iPod jack on my wife's car.
The problem with Audis is the huge dashboard. I mean WTF, the thing looks as big as a kitchen table.
I'm sure there are many, many options/features on cars that include licensing, and you already pay a premium for advanced infotainment systems. Those tend not to have recurring charges outside your purchase or lease price. At best, that's just an excuse from BMW.
Yet they do it all the time.
I think the goal is to milk the pre-owned market for more money. For the people who trade after three years, they save $60. And for the people who buy a car after three years and use it for ten, instead of that $300 getting depreciated to $150, they instead spend $800.
Of course, for smart consumers, this will mean that a used BMW is worth $800 less than it was before, and if consumers start treating it that way, then the three-year lease will have to go up by $800, and those folks will pay even more.
Either way, consumers get screwed, and BMW should be ashamed of themselves, but they probably are too busy patting themselves on the back and smiling at their short-term stock growth to care that they're eroding the brand's image.
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You mean the warranty would be enforceable even using 3rd party parts for maintenance?
Third-party parts are usually associated with aftermarket mods, but it works the same for standard maintenance and consumable parts (oil filters, tires, etc).
In these cases, the third-party parts aren't covered by the OEM warranty, but the original parts remain covered. They cannot void your warranty for using third-party parts in the US; the warranty continues to cover the OEM parts regardless.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Rents are the future of innovation.
Taste the Freedum!
Who is RTFM and when will he help me with Unix?
Japanese tend to be very conservative and wait a while. So the Japanese cars usually aren't as cutting-edge as the German or even American cars.
As they should be. It's a car, not a device to replace/upgraded every year based on a bleeding edge.
The main problem with Japanese cars is that their infotainment tech is usually behind the others.
As long as I can replace the dash cover with something that allows for a double-din receiver replacement, then were all good =). Custom dash hardware is bullshit, and should never be accepted. Not only is it obsolete, but replacing them is easily 4x the cost from a dealership - not including installation.
BTW, I'm Toyota for life!
Life is not for the lazy.
Put both hands on the wheel, look ahead, and drive your goddamned cars.
You're single, I take it.
In the UK, BMW came last in the latest JD Power reliability survey out of 25 manufacturers. VW/Audi and Mercedes also have average reliability at best. The illusion that German cars are well engineered has little basis in reality, and if you own one out of warranty it's just a matter of time before a horrendous repair bill comes your way.
For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
Hell Hyundai Canada just released an update that added CarPlay to my 2015 Sonata. And it was DIY if you wanted; go to a website, put in the VIN, download the update, get it on to an SD card, and apply it to the car. Done and done.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The main problem with Japanese cars is that their infotainment tech is usually behind the others.
Frankly at this point that's a feature rather than a problem. All of the various "infotainment" solutions from all of the manufacturers are so crap that I would much rather rip them out and install an aftermarket solution. Not only are aftermarket decks better, and provide more choice, but they're cheaper too.
With Japanese cars this tends to be easy, while American automakers have started making it more and more difficult.
BMWs didn't come with radios until the late 80s. This was at a time when most UK and foreign models did. The radio was not not even an optional extra!
Phil.
Cost too much. Works like crap.
I'm fucking bewildered by all this BMW hate. You and a dozen others, all spouting bullshit that doesn't match my experience, or that of people I know.
I owned a 1 series BMW. It was fucking awesome. By far the best car I've owned.
It ran well, it didn't break down, it handled beautifully, it was just an excellent car. It was also relatively economical to run, fun to drive and didn't depreciate any faster than other cars.
I can't get an equivalent Japanese, Korean or American car. My BMW wasn't cheap but it was good value for money.
Is there some way in which I can boycott, in protest, misbehavior of a corporation when I was not planning to buy their products ANYWAY? I suppose I could buy a shirt emblazoned with "Fuck BMW" but somehow, I don't think it would really have any effect besides making people wonder, "why is that guy wearing a 'Fuck BMW' shirt?" and "What did they ever do to him"? To this I would be obliged to reply, "well, they're planning to start CHARGING their customers for using Apple CarPlay!" to which they'd likely reply, "so what, they're rich assholes in the first place, so fuck 'em" and I'd be virtually forced to respond, "you know what, I think you may have a point there." Then I might perhaps have to turn my shirt inside-out.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
They says that for leases, the 'pay per year' method is cheaper, but let's boil that down.
On a three year least, with the 'pay per year' method, you'll pay $0 for your first year and $80 for each of your next two years. So $160 total.
If you leased the car with the one-time $300 fee, you don't pay $300. You pay Sales Price minus Residual. And the residual on some of these cars is up to ~60% of sales price. So lets say that the residual on a BMW is 58%, that means Car Play would have cost you $300* 0.42 = $126! Still cheaper! You'd have to have a residual less than 47% for the new method to be worth it.
You are assuming that the CarPlay license is part of that residual. Is CarPlay transferable to the new owner? Are you sure the "remainder" of the CarPlay fee goes into the residual value? I expect CarPlay is outside that residual. The residual is supposed to be the wholesale value of the car. If CarPlay is not transferable it can not be part of that value.
Stop going to the dealership. ( In the BMW enthusiast websites I read when I need to do something to my BMW, they refer to them as "stealerships". )
Find a good independent shop. Or do the work yourself
emt 377 emt 4
BMW should sell a service that allows drivers to cut people off in traffic, and disable that ability when owners fail to pay their annual fee. Because right now we have BMW drivers cutting people off in traffic for FREE.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I want cars to be sold with an empty double-DIN slot. If you want a radio or entertainment or whatever installed that should be from a third party. Anything else is anti-competitive practices and this would be solved if BMW and others didn't have the EU wrapped around their finger.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
In the United States, that's illegal. They can't force you to use the dealer for service
Yet John Deere has been doing just that by asserting anti-circumvention law on its tractors' firmware. Which cases have defined the boundary between Magnuson-Moss and the DMCA?
German car owner here. In fact, owner of multiple German cars over the years. They may have over-engineered them in the past but that is most certainly not the case today. In fact, they are woefully under-engineered, even before you factor in how much they cost.
The last over-engineered German car I had was a W140 (S-Class). The electronics were still a bit dodgy, but mechanically, it was solid and a thing of beauty. Today's German cars are over-priced and horribly engineered. They're still great to drive, beautiful to look at, very pleasant to sit in but the days of a Benz lasting more than half a million miles without major work is long gone.
Even in terms of tech, they are lagging. Laser headlights (BMW 7-series)? That's a multi-thousand dollar disaster waiting to happen. There is practically no benefit over LED lighting. Adaptive headlights? Another pending money pit. And why? Sure, theoretically you can argue that headlights that follow the steering wheel but in practice, it has zero real-world benefit. You're just one motor failure from googly headlights and a $4,000 bill.
Technology, to me, is things like exotic, light weight material for weight reduction across all models, or better engineering of critical components like valves, suspension to make them last longer . Gadgets like night vision and massaging seats are cool, but they're not leaps in technology.
If Kia can put Apple Car Play into even their cheapest base model cars as a standard feature, why the hell does BMW need to charge money (either a one-off fee or a monthly fee) for the thing?
The problem with something like this is that they're trying to extend the subscription model to everything. It's part of the physical goods makers' obsession with making consumers pay for a product over and over rather than owning it outright.
With rare exceptions, there are 2 types of people who buy BMWs:
- People who "rent" them on a throwaway basis on 2/3-year business leases, who will only pay $160 or $240 to rent CarPlay access before they turn it back in for another one. Even if it was $500 a year, the people in this set probably wouldn't blink an eye.
- People who buy them used because they like the cars, who will now not benefit from a pre-activiated CarPlay. Even many enthusiasts don't buy BMWs new...they're too expensive and it makes sense to let some doctor or real estate agent eat the depreciation.
BMW fans and Apple fans are also in the union part of that particular Venn diagram for the most part, so I'm really surprised they're doing this. Not really though...lately, they've been doing things like requiring that key parts like the battery be "programmed" by the dealer before they work, and basically any part with space for flash memory in it is a target for this too. (Adaptive headlight controllers are a good example.) I imagine that just like Office 365 and Adobe Creative Cloud, consumers will just accept paying and paying to use something they bought.
It's too bad they're continuing down this road. Infotainment and other electronics are already fiddly enough once they age sufficiently, and now you have to pay to access them.
I don't need no infotainment in my car. Give me an AM/FM radio with a USB port to plug a thumbdrive with all my songs and that's all.
And please, could we have our climate control knobs back? Independant from the radio?
I'll probably be on the market for a new car in 2-3 years, but I'm afraid I won't find any car that will fit my requirements... I don't want an IOT car. Can I rip the antenna out?
I feel like I should browse the Classic Cars ads instead of going to dealerships.
Try it! Library of Babel
Witness BitZtream getting pwned!... twice.....three times..... four times!
Not sure why downvoted...
Seriously, you're not sure. For real?
Maybe it's because this fuckwit constantly calls everyone else 'assholes' just because he can't bear the thought of anyone else not having the exact same opinion as his.
LOL. You trust CR...chump.
VW/Porsche/Audi is one company. They've standardized. The perform like VWs, are reliable like Porsches and have maintenance costs and parts availability like Audis.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Stealerships aren't just BMW dude. Anybody who has non-warranty work done at a dealer is too stupid to live.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
How's life in the hypocrite lane?
Expecting that from a dealer IS stupid. You will generally get factory parts, if the car is newish. Dealers don't stock parts for cars over seven years old. They know they don't see anything older. 'Dealer only' parts are almost always special order BTW...had a car with 'dealer only' windshield wipers.
Tech talent? You obviously don't know how dealerships treat their techs. Finding a trustworthy independant can be difficult. Play stupid, see if they try and cheat you. Don't expect them to 'stay the same' ether. Get to know the good tech, if (s)he leaves, worry. The thing to remember is: There are no trustworthy dealership service departments. Filter you search for a trustworth shop appropriately.
The key thing to look for is accurate diagnosis. If they go rounds and rounds, installing new parts, they're just OBD monkeys, find a better shop. You could do that. They're supposed to have done it 1000 times and know what 'these cars from these years' do. At least if you had the sense to buy a reasonably common car.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
subaru as well.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Just don't buy a BMW.
Or just don't buy Apple products. Then you'll have enough to afford the BMW (the M240i in manual is fantastic).
Hell, of all the options I said no to on my M240i, Apple play is the one I honestly couldn't care less about.
Astin Martin
Good thing it's not an Aston Martin then
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Techs put up with stealerships, as a gauntlet. Five years maximum at the dealer, now you can work someplace that doesn't abuse the fuck out of you. Dealer techs are 90% recent 'Wyotech' grads (OBD monkeys), 10% longtimers looking to get out. Walk around the shop area at your dealer. Find a tech over 30...
They don't _make_ factory parts for your car after seven. The dealer gets parts delivery from the same parts stores as any shop. Certified? LOL.
Dealers have recently (last few years) started to add an hourly 'shop fee' to the labor rate, $20/hour is typical. That's _more_ than they pay the techs.
Lose their franchise for poor service? Nonsense. Name one that has. Dealers get convicted of fraud and keep their franchise. Selling too few cars is the only way to lose your franchise (or having supported the wrong political party during a bailout, but that's another discussion). Even if you are convicted of stealing from the finance company and having your wife killed in a fake kidnapping, you get to sell the stealership.
Those other old cars? They belong to the techs. You are a fairly unique chump, taking a beater to a stealership.
Resale value? Not unless you're talking about an exotic. Nobody cares where you had a 14 year old car serviced, at all. They car how good a vacuum it pulls at idle etc.
The only reason to get near a stealership is to maintain warranty.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'