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German Navy Experiences 'LCS Syndrome' In Spades As New Frigate Fails Sea Trials (arstechnica.com)
schwit1 shares a report from Ars Technica, highlighting the problems the Germany Navy is facing right now. It has no working submarines due to a chronic repair parts shortage, and its newest ships face problems so severe that the first of the class failed its sea trials and was returned to the shipbuilders in December. From the report: The Baden-Wurttemberg class frigates were ordered to replace the 1980s-era Bremen class ships, all but two of which have been retired already. At 149 meters (488 feet) long with a displacement of 7,200 metric tons (about 7,900 U.S. tons), the Baden-Wurttembergs are about the size of destroyers and are intended to reduce the size of the crew required to operate them. Like the Zumwalt, the frigates are intended to have improved land attack capabilities -- a mission capability largely missing from the Deutsche Marine's other post-unification ships. The new frigate was supposed to be a master of all trades -- carrying Marines to deploy to fight ashore, providing gunfire support, hunting enemy ships and submarines, and capable of being deployed on far-flung missions for up to two years away from a home port. As with the U.S. Navy's LCS ships, the German Navy planned to alternate crews -- sending a fresh crew to meet the ship on deployment to relieve the standing crew.
Instead, the Baden-Wurttemberg now bears the undesirable distinction of being the first ship the German Navy has ever refused to accept after delivery. In fact, the future of the whole class of German frigates is now in doubt because of the huge number of problems experienced with the first ship during sea trials. So the Baden-Wurttemberg won't be shooting its guns at anything for the foreseeable future (and neither will the Zumwalt for the moment, since the U.S. Navy cancelled orders for their $800,000-per-shot projectiles). System integration issues are a major chunk of the Baden-Wurrenberg's problems. About 90 percent of the ship's systems are so new that they've never been deployed on a warship in fact -- they've never been tested together as part of what the U.S. Navy would call "a system of systems." And all of that new hardware and software have not played well together -- particularly with the ship's command and control computer system, the Atlas Naval Combat System (ANCS). schwit1 adds: "Perhaps most inexcusable, the ship doesn't even float right. It has a permanent list to starboard."
Instead, the Baden-Wurttemberg now bears the undesirable distinction of being the first ship the German Navy has ever refused to accept after delivery. In fact, the future of the whole class of German frigates is now in doubt because of the huge number of problems experienced with the first ship during sea trials. So the Baden-Wurttemberg won't be shooting its guns at anything for the foreseeable future (and neither will the Zumwalt for the moment, since the U.S. Navy cancelled orders for their $800,000-per-shot projectiles). System integration issues are a major chunk of the Baden-Wurrenberg's problems. About 90 percent of the ship's systems are so new that they've never been deployed on a warship in fact -- they've never been tested together as part of what the U.S. Navy would call "a system of systems." And all of that new hardware and software have not played well together -- particularly with the ship's command and control computer system, the Atlas Naval Combat System (ANCS). schwit1 adds: "Perhaps most inexcusable, the ship doesn't even float right. It has a permanent list to starboard."
The new frigate was supposed to be a master of all trades...
Gotcha, nobody who has ever seen combat spec'd the thing. Politicians are the used car salesmen of military hardware.
what they need is AI to fix all the issues, or maybe some sort of apps. if all else fails try hostfiles.
Ist nicht so gut.
Perhaps most inexcusable, the ship doesn't even float right. It has a permanent list to starboard.
Seems to me it's floating right.
Whodasunk?
Can't afford it. We've got a massive parade to put on.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's the integration and fielding that's difficult.
I've always thought that the really hard part of any complex system deployment was the integration work. It's often overlooked and under planned in the original project plan and when it is planned, the inevitable sliding to the right of the schedule causes integration to get squeezed into impossible schedules. I've worked integration efforts where the original unlikely to succeed 6 month schedule got compressed into two weeks.
I'm guessing the schedule slipped to far right, management wanted their bonus so it got fielded before it was going to work, so failure came as no surprise to the system integrators. Of course it failed acceptance, it failed our tests too.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
To build a "Little Crappy Ship". But in this case, I guess it is a "Kleines beschissenes Schiff"?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
In case anyone wonders what LCS stands for, it's "Littoral Combat Ship". Not that everyone knows what that means either, but it boils down to a jack-of-all-trades ship that's intended for close-to-shore operations, and not the deep seas.
And yeah, they're the F-135s of the ocean. Overpriced, delayed, problems doing some expected things, and loved by those who love Swiss army knives, entertainment systems and all-you-can-eat buffets.
I mean, seriously. What is LCS?
It has a permanent list to starboard
Yeah, most guys can sympathize.
They German Navy testers forgot to turn on the "generate fake data" mode during the acceptance testing. Soon it will be corrected and all the data will match the expected data so very perfectly. Just watch.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Going into World War 1, just about every power had at least some major equipment that was horrendously inadequate or impractical in some way. And/or just plain outdated. If we're as close to World War 3 starting as many people think we are, that's the situation now, between the new equipment like these faulty ships, the F-35, etc.
At least they get something in the water. Canada issued contracts for new ships years ago and the shipyards still haven't started welding metal yet. It's another case of trying to keep the yards in business over building the proper ships for the Navy. We should have had the basic ship (hull, structures, engines, etc) built in a country that specializes in ship building such as South Korea and then brought them back to kit them out with all of the specialized equipment (RADAR, SONAR, weapons, communications, etc). We could have had ships in service by now.
As always, I think it's pathetic that slashdot explains terms that most people here already know, but doesn't explain niche terms like "LCS".
Audi, BMW: "chronic repair parts shortage" ... "newest cars [ships] face problems so severe that the first [of the class] failed"...
The difference is that the US command structure accepted them while Germany was smart enough to say "no".
Table-ized A.I.
has glass-bottomed boats, so they can see the old German Navy.
Why they didn't just buy the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer which is designed to be configurable for different missions so they could have just ordered it with whatever features they wanted?
One of the oldest rules is "don't build if you can buy" because you let someone else make the mistakes, iron out the bugs, and you can then just get a working solution OTS instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Was it a case of NIH? Or one of those "bringing home the bacon" deals where spending money in the right districts mattered more than the finished product? Because looking at what they expected this turkey to do could have just as easily be gotten by simply buying the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer with the right package and it would "just work" since they have been in service since the 90s.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I get that Germany is now an EU member and 'western ally', but part of me still gets nervous at the thought of giving Germany back the ability to acquire too many military toys. It hasn't been even 100 years since the last time they ran rough shod over Europe like a bunch of drunken frat boys. I swear after the end of world war 2 they should have just disbanded Germany and called it New America or some such thing. Same with Japan.
The less capable of waging war Germany is, the better for everyone else.
LCS syndrome = who the fuck knows?
Well this new ship matches other German military acquisitions. Submarines which do not work, marine helicopter which cannot fly over sea (not allowed as they rust and might crash), impercise guns, non working transport planes, drones which are not legal to fly over Germany. In short the only thing that works are tanks, which we sell to the Turkish to murder civilians in Syria.
This is just one more example of that. Trump needs to follow through on his threats and cut back support for NATO. Let the Europeans face down Putin alone with their broomstick rifles, rusty tanks and ersatz aircraft. Maybe after Russia annexes a few more of the former Soviet satellites, the remaining European nations will change their minds about the necessity of defense spending. The free riding on US taxpayer funded defense must end. Let Europe be responsible for its own defense. It's about time.
Baden-Wurttemberg doesn't even have an ocean nearby!
I guess someone flunked his geopolitics 101 class...
Obviously, the machines themselves don't want to be part of the criminal NATO strategy of the "civilized West" against the rest of the world anymore.
I don't know if it is wise. If Greece decides to shun the tax collectors it will not be a war where US will take sides.
But still, first ship of it's type always has problems.
But let's just pretend it isn't happening, until our whole society collapses. After all, merely TALKING about it is "hate" speech apparently.
Everything you have been told about Hitler and the Second World War is a lie - try researching it for yourself, instead of blindly believing everything the controlled media tells you.
Customer sets up a contract, with semi-sane requirements and sane deadline.
Contract is approved, but requirements change, deviating increasingly far from sane.
There are punitive charges for not meeting the deadline. The developer is simply unable to meet all the requirements of the contract in full, on time.
Solution: As deadline comes, wrap up and release the half-made, definitely not ready for market product that "technically" meets all the requirements "on paper" - everything works, but nearly nothing works correctly. Then finish development while calling it "maintenance". Deadline is met, requirements will be met *eventually*, no punitive charges, essentially the best outcome possible in given situation.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Or does it run Linux......?
A Note to the Editors: it would be appropriate to italicize the name of a particular vessel - Baden-Wurttemberg, Zumwalt - as the Ars article did. I know that Slashdot submitters are all about copying and pasting from articles, with nary a bit of added value (like explaining the acronym "LCS"), but y'all could at least avoid making things worse by preserving formatting.
The first purpose-built American aircraft carriers, the Lexington and Saratoga, had the same lean-to-the-side issue. They were laid down during WW I as battle cruisers, which were the size of battleships with less armor and higher speed. They were designed as scouts.
When the hulls were converted to carriers in the 1920s they were designed to be part of the scouting force that screened the main fleet. So they carried
8 x 8" guns (the same battery as a heavy cruiser) near the superstructure on the right (starboard) side of the ship plus, if I remember correctly, the superstructure was partly armored. Adding 2,000 tons to one side made them tilt so the fuel tanks on the left side of the ship were basically ballast, only usable in an emergency.
Here's a pick-me-up for the crew, who probably need one right now.
Head on down to Schwartz's Deli for a Montreal Smoked Meat sandwich. It's famous for a reason; your taste buds will thank you.
There are other good deli's in town serving this masterpiece too; try Lester's, Main, Dunn's, Snowdon, etc. if that works better for you. There are loads of good options around, all you have to do is look for them.
I guess someone flunked his geopolitics 101 class...
Mmm. Pax Americana is very expensive for the US. Of course, the risk assessment has to be...how expensive will the loss of Pax Americana be?
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Put this down to MUTTI. She is an old dried up lesbian East German Communist.
She can't run ANYTHING unless obedience is built into it.