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With Financial Aid Declining, Many College Students Don't Have Enough Money To Eat, Studies Show, Even Though About 40 Percent Are Also Working (npr.org)
As students enter college this fall, many will hunger for more than knowledge. Up to half of college students in recent published studies say they either are not getting enough to eat or are worried about it. From a report: This food insecurity is most prevalent at community colleges, but it's common at public and private four-year schools as well. Student activists and advocates in the education community have drawn attention to the problem in recent years, and the food pantries that have sprung up at hundreds of schools are perhaps the most visible sign. Some schools nationally also have instituted the Swipe Out Hunger program, which allows students to donate their unused meal plan vouchers, or "swipes," to other students to use at campus dining halls or food pantries.
That's a start, say analysts studying the problem of campus hunger, but more systemwide solutions are needed. "If I'm sending my kid to college, I want more than a food pantry," says Sara Goldrick-Rab, a professor of higher education policy and sociology at Temple University in Philadelphia, and founder of the Hope Center for College, Community and Justice. [...] According to a survey of UC Berkeley students, 38 percent of undergraduates and 23 percent of graduate students deal with food insecurity at some point during the academic year, Ruben Canedo, a university employee who chairs the campus's basic needs committee, says.
That's a start, say analysts studying the problem of campus hunger, but more systemwide solutions are needed. "If I'm sending my kid to college, I want more than a food pantry," says Sara Goldrick-Rab, a professor of higher education policy and sociology at Temple University in Philadelphia, and founder of the Hope Center for College, Community and Justice. [...] According to a survey of UC Berkeley students, 38 percent of undergraduates and 23 percent of graduate students deal with food insecurity at some point during the academic year, Ruben Canedo, a university employee who chairs the campus's basic needs committee, says.
maybe it will solve the obesity issue
For people to wake the fuck up and realize that short-term profit-driven ideology is not going to work in the long term while sacrificing investment in and opportunities for young people. Future societies will hold the American system in almost all things as a cautionary tail rather than as the triumph it could have been.
When I was in school. The right wing in America said it would be fine and the kids would just take responsibility and work their way through college like they did (ignoring that they all had higher wages adjusted for inflation and 1/5th the tuition). What drives me nuts is we all knew this was coming and just said fuck it. And all we got for it was some paltry tax cuts that expire.
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How many college kids lived off of ramen noodles -- especially in tech -- and went on to do amazing things?
How are you going to compete on the world stage if your people are poorly educated?
Blame the Colleges.
Raising the cost two or three times the rate of inflation for 20 years will do that.
Just like the great depression. There was so little produced it had to rot in warehouses while the soup lines ran empty.
Such is the way of artificial scarcity, a natural result of the politics of property over life.
Tax cuts only expire if the Democrats force them to be. All the Republicans wanted to make them permanent but they didn't have enough votes at the time... they should after November though, given what the Democrats are campaigning on these days.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Given that tuition and textbook costs have dramatically increased, yet the minimum wage has not kept pace, this is not really surprising.
I remember many of my past professors that went to college in the late 60's and 70's, talked about how they would take the summer off to work and party, that they were able to earn enough to cover their entire tuition and books for the fall and spring semesters. LONG LONG LONG GONE are those days. Today, your lucky if you can find a summer job that will allow you to make rent, let alone, save any sort of money for tuition/books/living expenses. Student loans don't really help in the long term, as the future is mortgaged to pay for the present and that debt will be with you likely for a good 10+ years after one graduates.
With the current trend of steadily increased costs with minimal wage/salary increases to match, it is unlikely to improve any time soon
I find it suspect that this is the time in life when most people have not yet learned how to properly budget. It costs hardly anything to eat in the US. A loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter will set you back like... eight bucks if you're bad at shopping around. Learn to cook rice and you can eat even more cheaply.
What is most likely happening is growing pains, specifically in the area of budgeting. Now if the story were about students who miss their rent, that makes a lot of sense (though it also often can be traced back to poor decisions).
Currently, there is no pressure to keep tuition costs in check. That is, consumers are not price-sensitive. No matter what you are charging in tuition, loans and aid will cover it. Education loans are also not discharged in bankruptcy, so there is no reason to turn borrowers down based on their estimated ability to repay. It is all-around failure to apply market principles that resulted in inefficient and very expensive system. Tuition prices will not come down until there is a market pressure to do so. More aid will only make this problem worse.
Downstream of "$150,000 loan for gender studies undergraduate degree" is reduced quality of life, reduced lifetime wealth, and overall economical drag from less available income from consumers. If anything, these loans should have a California's mandatory cancer warning label attached.
It is an open secret that colleges are abusing the good will of the government and the students.
College professors are paid no better or worse than they were in the 1950s.
Tuition adjusted for inflation, the cost of tuition is well over ten times what it was then.
So, if the professors are not being paid more, the students are not using 10 times as many professors... where is the money going?
Well, I'm not going to get into that because everyone has short attention spans. It doesn't matter. The point is that the costs can come down dramatically if you squeeze the universities. A lot of administrators and non-essential spending can be cut without impacting the quality of education for the students.
We can see this in other countries that didn't permit this to happen by writing blank checks to the universities. Education pretty much anywhere but the US is dramatically cheaper without being any worse for quality.
The solution is not to increase financial aid. In fact, that is a large part of what caused this to get out of control in the first place. The Feds really need to stop throwing around money. It fucked up the housing market, it fucked up US health care which has gone through the same radical inflation in cost, and it has fucked up college education.
It is a financial feed back loop. Write the colleges a blank check and they'll just get a little bolder every year seeing how far they can push it. You can either put your foot down and do some solid accounting or let it bankrupt you. It is a feed back loop. It doesn't matter how much money you have. Eventually, it will beggar anything as it increases infinitely.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
We have young people saddled with debt during the most productive years of their life. All so rich people can get a tax break they don't need. This is wrong.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Europe here so I don't get the situation in the US. But I have always been explained that a part of those tuition fees are due to the fact that they include room anbd board? So food is still an issue?
bickerdyke
Most would be better served by gaining marketable technical skills even if they decide to pursue a degree. That way when they cannot get a job in graphic design they can at least be a plumber or welder.
Iâ(TM)ve worked in public higher ed since I was seeking my BA myself. My generation was targeted by credit card companies and we also saw the massive defunding of public higher education and thus the increase of cost to the students themselves.
But what most people donâ(TM)t know is that, behind the scenes, the bigger public universities we able offset a major portion of that increased tuition/fees with grants funded be increasing out of state and international admissions (who get charged much more than in state students). This means that while the total âoecostâ of higher education has officially increased, the proportional amount paid by students has only gone up a bit.
But still, there is a newer MAJOR fear of accumulating student debt. I left with $45k in debt, paid my minimums until I could pay more, took a payment hiatus due to unemployment, and then focused again on repayment. It took me 10 years to pay off the debt.
Today, I see students who are desperately afraid of taking on HALF as much debt as I did and as a result of hungry. Itâ(TM)s stunning how much more the students will self-educate about student debt by reading about the overall numbers of student loan default while not controlling for degree completion or the school from which the education was received (distance learning and for-profit schools are MASSIVELY more likely to pump out students that default on loans).
So, while there has been an increase in the direct costs of higher education, it has not been so much that students can not afford food. Instead, students have been taught to fear student debt as an extreme (sometimes politically motivated) reaction to poorly reported upon statistics.
Moral of the story: take the grants and scholarship without worry. Know what youâ(TM)re getting into with a federally subsidized loan, but donâ(TM)t let the big numbers scare you. We ALL go through repayment. Itâ(TM)s not wonderful or fun, but donâ(TM)t go hungry for 4-5 years just because you donâ(TM)t want to make payments.
C'mon, the current crop of kids are fatties. They aren't starving, unless you mean their inability to afford 3 Big Macs per day.
Can you afford your resume getting screened by HR regardless of your skill and experience? It was much easier to get into IT without any degree when degrees in IT were rare. Sure, some brilliant people can overcome this even today when CS degree is expected. When you are The Expert in X, people who need X done right won't care about your degree. However, if you are just a replaceable cog in the machine, like 90% of us, not having some kind of degree is highly detrimental.
> This food insecurity is most prevalent at community colleges
Given that community colleges are dirt cheap, as far as education goes, I suspect the lack of food money has more to do with the kinds of folks whose incomes land them in community college, and that the tuition is not the cause of their woes.
Both of my kids "landed in community college" because it was inexpensive. Both will graduate with STEM degrees and have zero debt because I am able to pay their tuition and books and they are able to live at home. They will have a great education and zero debt. It's not impossible though it's not easy.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
What fraction of these students have a smartphone with a data plan? That's a few hundred dollars per year right there.
How much have these colleges and universities spent on luxurious campuses and sports facilities which could instead have been "spent" on (saved for) lower tuition?
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
never seem to expire. Or how 80% of the cuts go to the 1%.
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Get into university on merit.
That would give some sort of full academic scholarship and allow the best in every generation to study and be supported.
Cant pass the test but have wealth? Buy your way into some study thats fun and use your own wealth to pay for what is needed.
When poor and not that smart, consider something outside a university education you cant afford.
Something like HVAC, plumbing and electrical. Vocational training.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The trick is to walk slowly and keep your energy level use low. Also some colleges have a place where they sell the cooking students products and you can get a good meal for about 4$.
Educational centers are an ideal within our culture, given a glorified place of hope and future prosperity. Those operating the educational institutes have taken our faith and spun it into gold all while whipping it out and pissing right in our faces. They could develop AMAZING online enhancements to their courses with 3d animations voice overs all sorts of stuff, but instead they spend it on parking so they can handle all the foreign students (at my college outnumbering native countrymen) so they can earn yet more money. They then crank the knob up on EVERYTHING oh you want a pop from a machine? 1.50$ Or would you rather get something at the cafeteria? 15$ Whats that you need to park a car? $694.00 per year. Do you need books? $500. Tuition? jesus I won't even go there because it makes me so increadibly angry and sad.
Thing is, the education they deliver sucks. I went in for web development, and they taught me DOS (not linux bash) windows (not linux) .net (not javascript) java (and again not javascript) and sql (which is quaint but realistically we can see the future is mongodb) and of course tomcat apache (not node.js). I had to spend almost every night sitting up at the computer actually educating myself after going to school all day and starving because I needed time to learn and college seemed the only way to get my parents to shut the fuck up while I taught myself something by making them think I was into the classes. The classes weren't offering an education, they don't even teach you basic stuff like how to setup a webserver, how to setup financial transactions, how to do login/logout, we NEVER hooked a server side database up to a client side. It was beyond pathetic.
A big hearty FUCK YOU, to Algonquin College of Ontario Canada. Rip off artists of Canada. The fact that they are greedy scum is just icing on top of a big cake of shit.
this is a false narrative used to justify cutting funding. It's a straw man.
The loans were the result of out of control tuition increases. Those increases started when federal funding was slashed. That started with Reagan, continued with Clinton and didn't get any better under Obama.
We were _heavily_ subsidizing colleges to keep tuition low because mega corporations needed trained American workers. Outsourcing and H1-Bs eliminated that need and when that happened they cut funding. We could have stood up to them and kept taxing them to pay for schools but we didn't.
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I cover this elsewhere on this thread, but it was cuts to federal subsidies that raised tuition, not loans. Public colleges do _not_ operate in a supply/demand model. They're non profit. And no, the dean's salaries didn't go up that much (football coaches did, but they bring in enough money to pay for it even though none of that goes to players).
Anyone who says loans increase tuition at public non-profit Universities is lying to you to change the narrative and create a straw man to divert attention away from the raiding of the public commons that's been going on for 40+ years.
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High-Paying Trade Jobs Sit Empty, While High School Grads Line Up For University https://www.npr.org/sections/e...
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
I take it you have a degree in art-history/gender studies and like to mistake your 'pretension and trivia' for 'talent and ability'.
I distinctly remember this happening while I was in college. The only students who would get student loans when I started college were doctors and lawyers, as they would have to attend for a long time, and could most likely pay them back. Then they opened the program up to all students. Two years later tuition started increasing by 5-9% every year. The first two years I was there they had built two new buildings. The last two I was there they built three, including a huge new library and law annex, gutted and renovated two more, and bought an adjacent city block to raze and build a new visitor center.
In the twenty years since a relative attended school there, they had built, maybe, ten new buildings. In the ten years after the school loan program went through, they had nearly doubled the size of the campus. Guess where that money is coming from?
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That's a big part of it. It's also important to look at how schools compete for students based on amenities, not just the quality of education. I haven't studied the numbers, but I would expect to see that the budgets of schools are shifting more and more towards non-academic expenditures.
Now there is finally enough attention to the cost of schools that schools can compete on cost, so I expect to see the market forces coming into play as a bigger factor in the coming years.
Downstream of "$150,000 loan for gender studies undergraduate degree" is reduced quality of life, reduced lifetime wealth, and overall economical drag from less available income from consumers.
However, the holders of such degrees know that their unemployability is purely the result of The Patriatrchy refusing to recognize their worth.
Also something about cismorphic monogendered racephobics or whatever the buzzwords are today.
That means universities are finally teaching something worthwhile: That the socialism doesn't work, free handouts are not something to depend on, and that you aren't going to make a living wage with your degree in Lesbian Dance Theory.
it's been shown that time and energy spent worrying about money massively impacts productivity.
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Its about time college bound kids realize the reality that a degree is not a guarantee for a good paying or rewarding job. You must choose wisely in what you focus your studies on. Some degree's are not worth the paper their printed on and some are in high demand, mostly because they require more effort and difficult classes to achieve the degree. Some just want to roll through their college years and then realize it was all for naught. Who's fault is that? Certainly not anyone else but yourself who obviously choose badly for whatever reason and now are stuck with a huge bill and nothing to show for it.
Dumpsterdiving/Skiping
Plenty of stores around that throw away food that's still good, though the expiration date has passed.
Just do not make a mess of the dumpsters surroundings!
"Food insecurity" is the umbrella term, invented specifically because Western civilization destroyed non-mental illness related hunger in their societies completely, and has now almost eliminated all non-political (i.e. warfare) hunger on world stage. Which is why certain circles, desperate to maintain the narrative of "evil capitalism starving children" when the exact opposite is true, have invented the term "food insecurity". This term encompasses everything from "dying of starvation" to "skipping breakfast because you were late for your first class, because you got drunk off your feet and overslept the previous day".
That's right. Alcoholic party animal who oversleeps and skips breakfast is just as "food insecure" as hypothetical individual who cannot afford food for months on end and ends up dying. Hypothetical because these individuals no longer exist. Capitalist societies are wealthy enough to ensure that the biggest problem their poor face today is being too damn fat. That's right. Our biggest food related problem for poor people today is that they eat too damn much.
It's worth noting that hunger still exists. It's usually either mental illness or crime related (relatives starving unwanted child, mentally ill person not taking care of himself), or political (socialism causing mass starvation event in the country's cities in Venezuela).
My daughter got a full ride scholarship four years ago. The first year cost of very little since all of her food was paid. The next year they changed the food plans that caused her to be short toward the end of the year. Last year I started putting fifty a week in to her bank account so she would be able to eat when she could, due to the collage shutting down several of their little kiosk food nooks. This year they are replacing all of those with food trucks and her vouchers don't add up to three meals a day for the duration of her last year.
Added into that, she has been audited for three years in a row despite the last two times they found nothing wrong. All the while insisting its 'random'. She is still lucky in that she had the grades to get through collage without a crushing debt at the end.
This situation is attributed to a new chancellor who immediately spent five million on renovating his house and then doing more renovations the next year. He also wants to get a football team going. Its clear that collages do better without them. The quality of the students who are there to learn is superior to the meat heads they will get with football around.
My blue-collar parents didn't believe in college when I decided to quit my construction job ($10 per hour) and go to community college.They allowed me to live at home and provided dinner. Breakfast and lunch was my own responsibility. I worked 30 hours a week ($5 per hour) at the campus bookstore to pay for tution, books, breakfast and lunch. I graduated debt free.
https://www.usatoday.com/story...
Downstream of "$150,000 loan for gender studies undergraduate degree" is reduced quality of life, reduced lifetime wealth, and overall economical drag from less available income from consumers. If anything, these loans should have a California's mandatory cancer warning label attached.
My preference is stick to local state colleges, where you can get a degree at a cost of ~$13k per year in tuition and books. Much lower loans necessary, including the engineering track
It's simple economics - increasing the supply of money (via student loans) to buy a service while not commensurately increasing the supply of that service will cause the price of that service to go up.
It's much more complicated than that. Sure, easy access to loans can lead to trouble--e.g., the housing market crash in 2007-2010--but another major contributor is that public higher education is becoming that in name only, as largely Republican-led state government decrease funding to public higher education in favor of tax cuts:
https://www.insidehighered.com...
But it goes beyond both of these as well, and is, in part, fueled by this issue. Universities want to attract students, and nowadays, students want their own suites, a climbing wall, a lazy river, WiFi that works in absolutely every nook and cranny on campus, mobile access to every university resource (grades, registration, coursework, events), etc. All of these things a.) cost money, b.) were not even a consideration a few decades ago (e.g., are additional expenses), and are rarely covered by states, so universities jack up student fees and tuition to cover such amenities. Furthermore, when university housing gets more expensive, rentals in the area get slightly less expensive. It all becomes something of an arms race between universities, who now have PR and Marketing groups that oversee admissions and registration.
Oh, and increased reliance on loans and federal funds leads to an increased need for compliance, which leads to more administration, which leads to higher costs, as one of the single most expensive aspect of a university is managing human capital (personnel, HR, benefits, etc.).
Welcome to the human race. Most humans throughout most of history have had to deal with 'food insecurity' perhaps this experience will help give those in college some perspective.
Speaking of respective, how insecure is there food in reality. I mean aren't ramien noodles till sold for something like 5 for dollar and tuna sold for cheap, what about those eggs. If you can get to a normal grocery store once a month a single person can live and not starve for less then $30 a month, you just aren't eating food you like. I'm not saying this to be harsh , that is what I lived on my senior year while working to graduate, why because my parents were poor and their available contribution was zero. Maybe we appropriate things more if we have to fight for them, rather then treating college like an extended adolescences and parting till we puke.
I'd like to see some statistics NOT related to 'feelings'. How about , how many college students are hospitalized per capita for malnutrition? (anybody? was there any?).
Here the thing, if you are choosing between beer and food, please pick food. A person can also do without new cloths for years ( the good will is nearby if you are hard up.)
I have my doubt''s if this is actually 'food insecurity' in so much as it is poor planning and wanting what you want.
Seriously if you have enough money to pay for school you have enough money to eat. Take 1 less class a semester, pick up a few hours and graduate in 5 or 6 years instead of 4. Hmm... food or books.. food or books ... you need to food before you can use the books.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
We should eliminate all federal student loans and drastically cut aid to force some responsibility and efficiency in the universities. Why has tuition risen so much so fast in the past 3 decades? Why do we belittle and demean non college grads in the trades?
I no longer wonder why the average American is way less healthy than the average European. Thanks for solving a mystery.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
How does a country struggling with obesity have a hunger problem? Answer: They don't. Instead, the word "hunger" was redefined to include people who do now know where their next meal is coming from. This is often called food insecurity.
Well, it's horseshit. All of it. By measuring hunger in this manner, they have drastically changed how hunger is measured and they have artificially increased the number of "hungry" people.
Remember that whenever you read these "America is going hungry" articles. Then go visit any populated place and see for yourself how hungry Americans are. Hint: Hungry and starving people don't drive scooters.
Actually hamburger-flipping would help the hunger problem. Why? Because most fast-food, and restaurants give meals as part of their employee benefits.
The real problem is that people are going to college when they shouldn't. If you can't afford it you can't afford it. Most of the claims of student loan debt is simply money borrowed using a student loan and then spent on housing, food, and entertainment. The idea that schooling must or should continue until the person is old enough to realize that they are an adult has to stop.
The lack of gifts is not the problem. The lack of intelligence is the problem.
We treat inmate better than how we treat students. Crime pays good dividend.
The upcoming cut in capital gains taxes is going to benefit me and mine immensly. If you don't benefit you only have yourself to blame.
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in the 80s? The spikes didn't happen until the late 90s/early 2000s. I know, because I just missed it and read multiple articles about it in my college's newspaper. Articles written with the full backing of the college's economics department doing research to show what was going to happen when the federal funding cuts that were being proposed started hitting. I remember reading how in 20 years tuition would top $12-$16k for a public university. And here we are 20 years later, I've got a kid in college and sure enough her tuition is $16k (3rd year nursing program).
Again, supply and demand go out the window when government subsidies get involved. There are times when this is a bad thing. Education is not one of those times. We are seeing the effects of what happens when the government pulls back from funding education. It's not that the cost is rising any more than usual. Educating children and young adults was _always_ this expensive. That's why until the government stepped in only the very wealthy went to school. We're going back to those days.
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While everyone is talking basic economics - supply and demand (in this case - supply of money increases demands to use it up...)
Let's not forget the costs of governmental regulation. Another boogeyman no one wants to deal with.
Right now I'm in the middle of supporting our IR/IE department (Institutional Research) who is responsible for filing and meeting all of those governmental reports (State, Federal, etc.) - this is at a small college.
Every year, they "tweak" the reports - which causes additional gyrations in SQL queries to get all the data that is needed in the reports. I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to get the queries tweaked and "right", in addition to the time the IR/IE people spend. We are spending about 2 1/2 MONTHS just producing ONE series of state governmental reporting. And from what we're hearing, unless you spend tons of money getting a specialized data warehouse (just for this reporting) - every college, university, community college, etc. spends about that amount of time. So - either spend the money in personnel, or spend the money for a vendor's solution (which never seems to work correctly anyway, and sucks up about as much time in personnel as not having it...). Gee, we could go out and get a full Oracle license (we have a limited license right now - can't create any tables our software provider didn't create, etc.) but that would balloon our IT costs. And having that would increase demands on additional hardware (why? because it's there!)
Our IR/IE department doesn't get any time to really deal with internal requests or research - trying to deal with all the governmental demands. They spend about 8-9 months out of the year - just fulfilling those demands. And we haven't even begun on the money/time/people spent for things like FERPA, etc.
So - that cost isn't ALL "spend it because it's available" (although that's a good part of it) - there's also the governmental regulations that require additional software/hardware/personnel to meet what they demand - to see if the money being spent is paying dividends (to be honest - it's not).
Books - a friend of mine has a brother who has written a couple of textbooks. He is REQUIRED by contract with his publisher to create a new edition EVERY year - just so they can replace it and students can't buy a used textbook. He does nothing more than move a few things, change a few words, etc. - enough to make it "different" - requiring the purchase of a new textbook.
go & study in Canada - shall be cheaper
that linking to a chart that shows the cost of education climbing doesn't prove anything. I suspect you did that to add credibility to your arguments and make it seem you were citing mathematical statistics that proved your point. That chart literally proves nothing except that costs have gone up. But they don't show _why_ those costs have gone up. The reason, as I mentioned, is that we were hiding the true costs with government subsidies so that people other than the very rich could benefit from a college education.
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We read, over and over and over, how the workforce needs more and more education.[1] Meanwhile, the GOP keep cutting taxes.[2,3] Where is this "highly educated workforce" going to come from in the US, if this goes on? Asia? Eastern Europe?
1. I personally know that Philly Community College, in the early eighties, got 90% of its funding from Pell Grants, which have been hacked and slashed.
2. Check out the results of this in Kansas, where the GOP lege finally told Gov Brownback where to shove it.
3. When I was a kid, teachers did NOT have to put money out of their pocket for school supplies.
I don't understand. We now live in a world where education is free and never ending. You can learn anything you want. Libraries of books became the internet of infinite websites. You don't need college to learn things. So the right to education has absolutely nothing to do with college anymore.
College is, what it always was: a certification of advanced skills. When brick-layer was basic, engineer required college. Great. In a world where few had college degrees, college degrees meant better employment. Great.
That's not today. That hasn't been today for two decades now.
Today, college means not entering the workforce for 5-to-15 more years.
Today, there are more can't-find-work surgeons than there are brick-layers. Full stop.
If you can't afford to go to college to become and out-of-work doctor, brick-layer is something you can do at HALF THE AGE, for what has become an increasing wage (because no one wants to do it). And with the extra 5-to-15 years of income, and the better hours, and the better lifestyle, I don't know why anyone short on money would ever choose college.
My neighbour's a seasoned municipal plumber of twenty years (think sewers). My housekeeper's a new school janitor for six months. The janitor makes more money than the plumber.
The janitor works full time, with a pension and paid vacation, in her own community. The plumber takes any hours he can find, and that's it -- unless he chooses a 36 transport to northern nowheresville to start building a new city for three weeks at a time away from his family for triple the money.
This stupid propaganda that advanced education a) means college; b) means paying for; c) is required; and d) is beneficial at all -- is just foolish.
Again, if you want to be a doctor and specialize in the back of the knee, and you've got the mind and the money to do it, by all means go pay for college and go work through residency and spend twenty years of your life working with the [ehem] guarantee that you'll earn the big bucks by the time you're 40, and that you'll survive and still want to do it by then.
But, if you don't have the money, or don't have the intellect, or don't have the desire to invest 25 years all at once into nothing but your career, then there are countless careers that require little education and absolutely zero accreditation.
We've discussed this before.
I spent it on more nutritious items like noodles and frozen pizzas.
> This food insecurity is most prevalent at community colleges
Given that community colleges are dirt cheap, as far as education goes, I suspect the lack of food money has more to do with the kinds of folks whose incomes land them in community college, and that the tuition is not the cause of their woes.
It took off from IT for a few years to teach math in a community college.
You are right. It's not the fees at community college that's their problem. Many, if not most of those people have food insecurity because their jobs don't pay much and their lives have other problems. They're trying to get out of the hole they are in.
Many of the women are single mothers having lost their husband through divorce, death, or jail. Parents helping is not an option because the parents are worse off than the student. The ones that didn't have kids were escaping their parents drug and drunk problems.
Back when I was teaching, people on the bottom rung had jobs but no option to have medical insurance so they pay for their kids medical bills out of pocket.
Many people on Slashdot recommend getting trained for a blue-collar job. This is great, but a huge problem for blue-collar men is they get hurt on the job and now cannot climb ladders, or crawl under houses, or bend over a car fender for hours. So they need to get trained for another trade while living on disability and Wal-mart pay.
These were some the best people I've ever known.
FIRING BULLETS at people is a TAD different than DELIVERING an UNPLEASANT but otherwise SURVIVABLE SHOCK!
BY THE WAY, why are we RANDOMLY capitalizing WORDS?
Go to a cheaper, lower cost university....and I don't know, eat dinner?
It would be great if we could get Betsy DeVos to tweet that.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Trouble eating, yet many of them sport high end phones and apple computers. Maybe the problem is also with their money management skills? They should first learn to identify necessities and then prioritize before complaining about money issues and then blaming something else for their poor decisions.
How many of them are willing to sell and trade their expensive devices for cheaper models in order to eat. I'll help out those individuals, assuming they are in a trade program and not some useless "gender studies" degree. Everyone else just wants a handout to fund their expensive hobbies or tastes.
For people to wake the fuck up and realize that short-term profit-driven ideology is not going to work in the long term while sacrificing investment in and opportunities for young people.
The System is working as designed - it is opportunity hoarding by the wealthy. They use wealth to exclude the plebs from opportunity by proxy of fake "merit." As the college degree has become a requirement for middle and upper class jobs, the price of a degree has increased so as to exclude the poor. Same thing with unpaid internships which also function to exclude the poor from access to lucrative job opportunities since only the wealthy can afford to work for "free."
This doesn't just suck for the underclass, its sucks for society as a whole since it means "merit" isn't actually a measure of ability, just of wealth, so we end up with incurious, mediocre rich people in positions of power who are convinced of their own genius.
Starting my senior year of engineering school soon. My FAFSA has been audited 3 times, and is currently under audit. This has resulted in financial aid delayed by months and sometimes not paying out until November. I've had to pay tuition out of pocket multiple times because of this. During those months when I was going to school before they finished processing my financial aid, I would not only need to work 20+ hours a week, but the only food I could afford was bulk rice.
The entire financial aid system is completely broken.
you can put your meal plan on a student loans so it's over priced and at some schools it's forced on to you.
See subject: Stock markets = casinos for 1% controlling 90% of the wealth via deregulated banking. Want to know more? See https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
* It'll ENLIGHTEN you & maybe "blow your mind" as to WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON out there...
(FREE TRADE (easily monetarily OR politically manipulated) IS ANOTHER DANGER TO THE "good of the herd")
I agree w/ you but there are "catches" in WHY it goes on (human nature really).
APK
P.S.=> Why? SELF-PRESERVATION (especially for the rich & powerful whose BIGGEST FEAR is losing that power & control) will ALWAYS take precedence over the desire for the "good of the whole/herd" - it's human nature & think about it - IF YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF 1st, you can't TAKE CARE OF OTHERS - problem is, like a drug that's addicting, the POWERFUL tend not to go with "trickledown economics" (a pipe dream UNLESS a fair EVEN HANDED GOV'T REFEREE FORCES IT via taxes & penalties (BIG PROBLEM HERE is the rich buy up politicians OR place their OWN CRONIES into the job))... apk
...then they should stop wasting all their money on fast food, parties and booze.
Learning how to cook and be self dependent seems to be better than going for a scam education right before being replaced by the drones you will help build. Knowing how to fix things yourself, manage a monthly salary and self-control are gifts for life while work come and go and subjects change.
If you recall the Milgram Experiment properly, the shocks started low, but then gradually approached "lethal" levels. Many people still administered "lethal" shocks.
student loans need bankruptcy!
See subject: Especially when your family's life & dreams are @ stake & you hear "DO YOU LIKE YOUR JOB? KNOW YOUR ROLE!" forcing your hand...
* ... Since ULTIMATELY in the end? We all answer to our conscience!
(Provided you actually HAVE one & any empathy @ all for your fellow man as well that is - & thing is, SELF-PRESERVATION will always trump the common-good!)
APK
P.S.=> To answer your silly question? Well, then WHY DO YOU?? You trying to BE ME again ala https://news.slashdot.org/comm... ? ... apk
Collage? Really?
Maybe if you had sent your daughter to College instead of Collage (whatever the fuck that is) she and you wouldn't have turned out to be such fucking whiny idiots.
By the government. You're massively underestimating just how much of our education system is paid for by the Fed.
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you used to be able to work and pay for college.
You where able to work part time / summer jobs and be able to pay for college in the past.
given the productivity raises we've continually had in America. Productivity has doubled in 40 years yet real wages are down 14%. It used to be that as productivity went up pay and standards of living did. Americans should be making _more_ not less, but inflation takes 3-4% right off the bat. It's not surprising that educators would know enough to see this and demand a 3-4% raise to keep pace with inflation.
What _is_ surprising is that labor has gotten so weak that it can no longer demand that as the pie gets bigger they get a share of it. Hell, there was just a new story about how the 1% have finally have as much of the pie as they did right before the Great Depression. That's not a coincidence. We're heading for something nasty if we don't turn back...
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I had no ability to access Stafford loans, so I worked, went the community college route, then executed an E.E. degree at a big 10 and paid in cash.
That would be about twice as difficult now. It was hard then, but I am very happy about the lack of debt.
Perhaps colleges and universities could build cafeterias and offer students meal plans that they can finance along with their student loans?
Ken
Headline should be "Students forego food in favor of tattoos."
The average undergraduate student debt burden is around $30k (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/04/28/average-student-loan-debt-every-state/100893668/), so there aren't many gender studies majors out there with $150k in debt. Also, as previously pointed out, gender studies majors are a small percentage of college students. The most popular majors are things like business, psychology, and nursing (http://college.usatoday.com/2014/10/26/same-as-it-ever-was-top-10-most-popular-college-majors/). Enrollment in CS programs is booming all over the nation right now. People with $150k+ debt level tend to be physicians, lawyers, and PhDs (maybe some of your professors).
College affordability has gone down due to a few factors:
1. Reduced state funding. To compensate, many schools have increased recruitment of out of state students and (in particular) international students. These students have to pay full out-of-state tuition and at many schools these students subsidize the in-state students.
2. Increased administrative/executive bloat (4 Vice presidents for student life, etc https://www.bsa.ca.gov/pdfs/reports/2016-122.pdf). This is in response to #3 (see below).
3. Competition for students. ie. Many students are attracted by a college's amenities. Schools used to have cafeterias, now they have food courts with commercial eateries akin to your local mall. Schools have sports programs that bleed money (except for at a handful of schools) in order to please students and alumni. Fancy, world class, recreational facilities, etc. You get the idea. None of this increases the quality of education but still all gets lumped into "cost of attendance" and students have to pay for it. However, there has been a cry to run colleges like a business and so they are giving the people what they want. If we had a little more "sit your little a$$ down and learn" instead of "welcome to your 5 year frat party" we might not have quite as many of these issues.
When I went to (reasonably good) school, a science degree was about 4K/year. At the same school now (10 years later) it is 8K - twice the cost. As a comparison minimum wage went from about $9 to $14.
Even back then, it is lucky I got a 50% off scholarship and family helped out. I still would have been able to do it without that help but there is no way I would be at the same level of competitiveness and education that I am at now.
Getting a STEM degree and doing something useful with it is tough, and it's sad that it's only getting so much tougher.
"What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
And most degrees do not worth it.
With a tax cut to for wealthy republican donors.
Y'all have gone and done it now: college is screwed up, and the only hope will be a painful solution. The solution at least has the virtue of being simple: end student loans. After a major period of adjustment, fewer people will be going to college, and tuition will plummet. With luck, this will also eliminate overpaid administrators, and kill off stupid money-wasting programs.
Unfortunately, it won't make incoming students more qualified. For that, you need to fix the rest of your educational system...
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Perhaps if the students would try eating food instead of money they would have better luck.
. . . just saying.
What is it going to take for people not to enrol in hamburger flipping degrees like gender-studies or sociology and do something society needs?
There's a shortage of people in the trades, why not take up a study/work program, become a tradeperson earning good money while you learn.
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes537021.htm
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes537021.htm
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm
The difference between health is due to European's walking and using public transit vs. Americans driving and sitting at home. Nearly half of all college students in the US own a car (or drive a car owned by a relative.)
Oh no no no. Your conservative ass does't get to use that argument. Welding school ISN'T free. Most will not be able to pay that up front or as they go, so they will need to take out loans to cover it. The details of when, if, and how quickly they can pay them back is irrelevant, just to nip that retort in the bud.
Because the Trump administration is clearly a left-wing nut-job enterprise.
Also left wing? The George W. Bush administration (2 terms), the George H.W. Bush administration, Reagan administration (2 terms), Ford administration, Nixon administration (2 truncated terms), Eisenhower administration (2 terms), Hoover administration, Coolidge administration, Harding administration, Taft administration, Roosevelt administration (2 terms), McKinley administration (2 terms), Harrison administration, Arthur administration, Garfield administration, Hayes administration, Grant administration (2 terms), and Lincoln administration (2 truncated terms).
I'll stop there and leave out the Whigs, though there are a bunch of those too.
Damn those leftist Presidents! They are all under the sway of the... LEFT.
Unless all you want is a bunch of robots easily programmable by FOX/CNN.
Of course I want robots programmable by Foxconn. Automating assembly of electronic devices would at least help alleviate the sweatshop conditions in Chinese factories.
Oh wait, you said "FOX News Channel and CNN", didn't you?
"We'll all stay skinny,
'cause we just won't eat!"
c/f Rockstar
It's happening at RPI because the president makes over $1 million a year.
She's also turning it into a liberal arts college.
Yay diversity!
The problem is far deeper but driving everywhere is certainly a problem. I work at home and commute on occasion. My job is 3 miles away, completely walkable, but it's not practical for me to do to meet limited time in a daily schedule. Instead I have to force myself to do artificial exercise (running regularly) to make up for it and it's more time efficient.
If everyone walked and expectations in our society changed about productivity, it would help considerably.
You'll find that most healthy foods in the US are actually quite expensive relative to unhealthy foods. It seems counter intuitive but my gut feeling is that it's due to basic economics of supply and demand and the fact is, a cheeseburger is cheaper than a simple salad because it's tastier, resulting in significantly higher demand and supply, scaling the cost back. When I try to eat a lot of fresh veggies I find my grocery store bill is significantly higher and I have to make more frequent trips. It also takes more time to prepare (since I can't rely on takeout), costing me more in time. I can afford to pay more because I'm single and earn fairly well but many people cannot and for large families it's even more difficult, especially if they're lower income and likely have even less time working multiple dead end jobs.
See subject: THAT's one the "controllers/powers that be" HIGHLY value (such as Milgram's studies on giving electrical shocks to those answering questions wrong - WHY? To see HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL DO AS THEY ARE TOLD despite it hurting others - not what their humanity/inner self TELLS THEM IS WRONG TO DO).
* He found there are only ~ 35% of folks that will REFUSE to do so (in other words, 65% of "soldiers" would FIRE ON THE U.S. PUBLIC if told to do so & so will officers issuing said orders rather than a 'stand-down' F'YOU politicians back @ 'em... (even though the CIA & Armed Forces are NOT chartered to operate on US SOIL)).
People REALLY DO "move in herds" & aren't all that different. That "pseudo-science" can show STATISTICAL demonstratable relationships & cull out outliers once they learn to "profile" you for it... it's dangerous. Makes sense too - psychology of the individual FORMS SOCIETIES (& the relationship between individual psychology & sociology (see subject) tends to work (against you)).
Much as enthusiasm/jingoism/nationalism can work FOR YOU (& say, the stockmarket)? Authority & obeyance of it CAN work AGAINST YOU (as most folks want to just "go along to GET along" often forced to do so for survival ala "DO YOU LIKE YOUR JOB?" might as well be asking "DO YOU LIKE YOUR LIFE & FAMILY?")
It's a LOT like organized religion: If I control your head, I control YOUR ASS... governments come & go but religious cults were there to control you LONG before governments.
Mind games...
APK
P.S.=> "StRaNgE" Days we live in & be VERY WARY of that one - it's USED AGAINST YOU (& by "you"? I MEAN EVERYONE)... apk
1st: You're NOT me (but wish you were) & I'm NOT here to win a "popularity contest": I'm here to WIN so EVERYONE DOES & be faster/safer/more reliably connected online.
Your CRAP's what I PUT UP W/ when one's "World-Class" (like ME): STALKERS stalking u by UNIDENTIFIABLE ac (everyone sees IT constantly happening & I suspect it's INFERIOR competitors, webmasters & advertisers (mostly) & lastly malware makers (as my hosts engine affects 'em adversely & gives users of it more SPEED/SECURITY/RELIABILITY & more anonymity online)).
My "portrait" https://365songsblog.files.wor... (lol) so
* Satan GET THEE BEHIND ME!
APK
P.S.=> 3 things show I do it right:
1st = User praise my hosts engine https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...
2nd "ATTACKS" I GET (from UNIDENTIFIABLE ac as Elon Musk got https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... )
3rd BEING IMITATED = "Imitation = sincerest form of flattery" https://linux.slashdot.org/com... ... apk
I've got a kid in college right now and you can take your lower standards and stuff it. Getting _in_ isn't so hard. Getting into your 300 level courses is damn near impossible. She barely squeaked in with a 4.0, a few summers of volunteering and a specialty program she did to prep her for the classes. Her workload is nuts. She takes summer _and_ winter courses to cover gen-ed requirements because they loader her with 5-6 full time classes for her major during the year proper.
And this is just a continuation of what she did in high school.
I don't know how anyone could make it in college and work unless they were one of those freaks that gets by on 4 hours sleep no prob. They work the kids like dogs these days. They have too. Thanks to outsourcing H1-Bs College is a requirement for an entry level job now. There's too many qualified applicants for the 300 level courses. Got to weed them out somehow. You could jack up the price more but colleges don't do that because they non-profit. The goal is to educate, not to make money.
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I finished college almost 20 years ago, and Ramen was a staple in my diet for pretty much the whole time. I also had two part time jobs, and three during the summer months while everyone else went on vacation. I entered college with only $400 in my bank account. Rarely ever saw a balance over $100 in my account for the remainder of my time there until my first real job after. Sucks being poor I get it. Please file story under #whyisthisnews.
prease 2be lrn2engrish k.
Bryan Caplan and Nassim Nicholas Taleb on What’s Missing in Education (Bonus-Live at Mercatus) https://medium.com/conversatio...
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
Graduated a couple years ago. This graph madr be gag.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-05/textbook-case-untenable-trajectory-inflation
Would you please explain how this engine works?
Can I use it to block web ads?
It's not just the luxury of transit, it's also that the US is a land of plenty. We consume a lot of food compared to many nations. I pretty much eat 2x what my European counter parts eat. Although I am almost a foot smaller and 40 pounds less.
You can also see the changes from wealth in places like India and China. They used to eat a lot of greens, rice, and sugars. But since the increase in wealth, they have bulked up their meals, added enrichments to their foods, and increased their sugar, fat, and protein intakes. You can clearly see the difference in photos across the generations. Both countries now have a growing diabetes epidemic.
how can you still keep saying, with a straight face, that the US educational system is better then what we have in Europe. This is just lunacy, soon there will only be education for the rich, and by then it will be too late.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
It'll block almost anything you like if served by host-domain name (99% are) e.g. Ads, malicious sites, tracker sites/scripts etc. & it speeds up access to your fav sites you spend most time @ (securing you vs. redirected DNS @ DNS OR router + IP stack setting level).
* It gets data from 8 reliable reputable security sites (& you can supplement it manually via other security sites daily reports) + you can CHANGE to others easily (flexible .ini file driven).
APK
P.S.=> Gives you more speed/security/reliability/anonymity vs. tracking (@ DNS level) vs. ANY single other "so-called 'solution'" LOADED w/ security issues (AV/DNS) & slowdown (browser addons crippled by default to NOT do their job (adblock) 'souled-out' to advertisers, DNS & AV) + exploitation due to their complexity in "moving parts" (local & distributed) for less resource use & complexity via a PROVEN 45++ yr. IP stack in FASTER (more cpu priority given) kernelmode speed vs. SLOWER usermode... apk
I didn't have enough money to eat as a student in the 80s. No car, no spring break holidays, just a hand to mouth existence. It is supposed to be this way, so students are motivated to study, graduate and get their life on track. The only difference today is the constant whining from snowflakes who think that the world owes them something. Toughen up!
Hohohohoho see the CLASSIC proof of that here soyboys as you DRINK the golden wine https://news.slashdot.org/comm... straight from MY tap (of GOLDEN piss), all natural ingredients, naturally filtered (of ME pissing right into your shitbag mouths & funniest part is, you help me DO it - you LIKE it, lol!).
Do you LIKE the taste? Obviously yes - just like folks like my hosts engine, anything I put out, even piss, is GOOD (unlike "your kind").
Above all else though? Hey - MOMMY LOVES YOU!
APK
P.S.=> Hahahahaha (I think this is the BEST overall letting you SHEMALE soyboys destroy yourselves for GOLD (ask SuckerBERG about that - he's the expert as is all his kind are - heading into ZylonB & Furnace time again judging by what's happening - the PRICE of it is that, always, they don't learn)... apk
You know, ten years ago we laughed and laughed about how useless all these "gender studies" tracks were and how they leave people in debt with no job prospects. Now, all of these people staff each company's diversity management position, HR diversity outreach, sensibility officers, workplace offense detectors, politically correct apps officer, product development positions to make sure all pronouns are available. It was a problem that invented its own solution.
Who's the fool now.
Future societies will hold the American system in almost all things as a cautionary tail rather than as the triumph it could have been.
The term is "cautionary tale", as in a story that provides a warning. A "cautionary tail" would be more akin to a baboon's ass or a skunk's raised tail. As for the "American system", it has been one of the greatest engines for prosperity that the world has ever seen.
For people to wake the fuck up and realize that short-term profit-driven ideology is not going to work in the long term while sacrificing investment in and opportunities for young people.
The problem is not the "people" (i.e. "we the people", or the country as a whole). The problem, in this particular discussion, is students feeling entitled to a free ride. College is not a right. It is not even a necessity. There are plenty of trades that pay exceedingly well and do not require a degree. Taking on the challenge of college also means accepting responsibility for the cost. Ultimately that is on the student. Don't have the funds? Can't get a loan or a grant? Take some time off and get a job the way past generations did. No one owed them a thing, and they still made something of themselves. The entitlement bullshit needs to stop. That's what's killing the "American system". We have a couple of generations that think the world owes them. In truth, it owes them fuck all. If they're not willing to put something into it, then they should get nothing out of it.
Govt should provide Free Education and Universal Health Care
Casteism
Can you tell me how it works?