Chromebooks Don't Suffer From Bad User Experiences Found on Windows and Mac Computers, Google Says (aboutchromebooks.com)

Kevin C. Tofel, writing for About Chromebooks: Having worked for a Google Chrome Marketing team over an 18 month period, I never saw a project that aggressively goes after Windows and Mac computers like the one that was published today [Editor's note: the video is unlisted, but accessible]. [...] As someone who has used (and often still does use) other platforms, I can't really disagree with the point of this video. For too long, computer users have had to deal with cryptic errors, updates that can take hours to install and the dreaded blue screen of death / spinning beach ball.

Granted, some of my personal experience with those issues was when I was in corporate IT for 15 years; that career ended for me (by choice) back in 2007. And clearly, all desktop / laptop platforms have improved since then. Even so, Google is highlighting the modern approach of Chromebooks with this short video and that's an important point.

Comments

News for nerds?

[Anonymous Coward]

Manufacturer says their product is good and people should buy it

News at 11, bitches!!!

Re:News for nerds?

[Joce640k]

Meanwhile, the geniuses at Microsoft are planning to move Windows to a rental model.

Let's see how this ends.

Re:News for nerds?

[lgw]

Meanwhile, the geniuses at Microsoft are planning to move Windows to a rental model.

I don't think that's how it's going to work out, long term, at least in the consumer space. I expect Windows will eventually be free, or nearly so, while Office and other MS cloud offerings are monetized as a subscription. Heck, isn't Office free on mobile, since people aren't used to paying for mobile apps?

MS has realized the end is coming for their traditional consumer revenue model. As everyone moves to mobile, Office is the only footprint MS really has. They really want to make money for cloud services for mobile users - which will of course be subscription-based. Good luck with that - it's a crowded space.

Of course, their enterprise products have always been subscription based, as the real money was in the support contracts.

Re:News for nerds?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

They're planning to offer Windows on a rental model to companies, in essence trying to get all IT outsourced to them. That's not their plan for home users.

I mean, it probably is, but not until ChromeOS and OSX are planning on doing it as well. Probably not for 5-10 years at least.

Re:News for nerds?

[DontBeAMoran]

Meanwhile, Apple are castrating their computers a bit more every year while increasing their prices.

Let's see how this ends.

Re:News for nerds?

[e432776]

on the technical side, how different would Windows DaaS be from ChromeOS? In either case I think user has limited/no control over their own files.

Re:News for nerds?

[postbigbang]

Windows free? Nope. Not gonna happen.

Chrome is just a subscription-less operating environment.

The entire post is Google PR. Why? Chromebooks are cloud devices and of course you'd have a great experience, because you would blame problems on cloud vendors.

What's at play here is the cloud model vs client/server or endpoint resource/storage. 32GB of storage is less than I have on my phone, and I'm not alone.

The Chromebook is a terminal access device. Remember Sun and their Network-is-the-Computer maxim? Who was CTO of Sun at the time? Remember Eric Schmidt? He also worked at Microsoft-hating Novell for a while, too. The Chromebook is a pointedly stupid edge terminal device, devoid of much power, and priced accordingly. It's part of a centrist computing model where you PAY some one in the center to give you your fix of processing.

This is not to say kind things about Microsoft, rather, the Chromebook is simply a terminal with memory. Comparing it to Windows isn't a good argument, as Chrome and Windows in the context of the Chromebook are two different things and models.

Re:News for nerds?

[Zo0ok]

It can be like that, certainly. But there are Chromebooks with more storage. They typically have 4-core, 4GB RAM, USB ports, SD-card slot. It is obviously low end but it is far from useless on its own.

More and more Chromebooks run Android apps.
In dev-mode you can run most everything (using croution, for example).
I hear linux-apps-in-a-sandbox (kind of) is in the making.

Re:News for nerds?

[postbigbang]

So tell me you're good with the typical 32-64GB of storage. Tell me you're ok with 1080p. Tell me you're good with speakers that sound like tin cans. Tell me you're into all that peripheral device attachment option pack. Tell me you're good with dual OS.

Why not simply buy an inexpensive 8MB/500GB laptop with actual LInux on it? I write this on a Lenovo running Debian underneath, Cinnamon on top. It's not the world best, but it's durable, has reasonable speakers, a few extra jacks, and yeah, 500GB instead of 32.

It's a terminal. Simply a terminal. Cool terminal. Terminal.

Re:News for nerds?

[nukenerd]

Meanwhile, the geniuses at Microsoft are planning to move Windows to a rental model.

I don't think that's how it's going to work out, long term, at least in the consumer space. I expect Windows will eventually be free .... MS has realized the end is coming for their traditional consumer revenue model.

Microsoft will never make Windows free. Their traditional consumer revenue model is certainly an end because people will no longer queue overnight like lemmings for every new release of Windows, Word, or whatever, and sales of PCs (usually pre-loaded with Windows) are going down like a lead balloon. So to get an income in the future they want you to rent - giving a steady and predictable income, unlike the bonanza-drought-bonanza-drought of the Win 9x years for example, with the added bonus that they don't have to do much development in future except for security patching, and the occasional make-over to make you feel you are paying for something.

As for whether consumers will accept it - of course they will. Renting rather than buying, and paying by Direct Debit, are in fashion, so once MS have your bank details most consumers will hardly notice the MS take amongst the other noise in their bank statements. In fact according to the manager of my local bank branch, most people scarcely glance at the detail in their statements these days, especially as "going paperless" seems to make them less likely to be read anyway.

Re:News for nerds?

[tsa]

Let's hope it ends before one of my computers breaks down so I don't have to choose between crappy overpriced secondhand or crappy overpriced new Apple stuff. Apple managed to lose a lot of their appeal very fast.

Re:News for nerds?

[Hognoxious]

I mean, it probably is, but not until ChromeOS and OSX are planning on doing it as well. Probably not for 5-10 years at least.

There'll always be the alternatives - SystemDredhat and Kgbuntu.

Re: News for nerds?

[Deathlizard]

If they offered an Azure VDI option with office 365 and exchange integration and the ability to install apps like a proper VDI at $15 or less a month, We would do it for our company.

VDI is expensive when it comes to windows. It's $100 a year per VDI session unless your on software advantage, and you're paying big bucks for that.

Re:News for nerds?

[slaker]

It's not like the Chromebook is necessarily the only computer one might have. I'm typing on a Chromebook right now in preference to using any of four high-end notebooks (or either of my high-end desktops) that are all relatively close proximity. For a lot of non-business activities, like aimless Slashdot posting, it's a perfectly serviceable device. And I can start a remote session on one of the big-boy computers if I need to; web browsing is ironically something I generally don't do on this thing. I just like having this thing with an 8+ hour battery that doesn't get warm and does pretty much everything it can do pretty much instantly. I suppose that if someone made a bizzaro-world Xterminal with a 1080P touchscreen, I'd be happy with that as well.

Re:News for nerds?

[postbigbang]

Terminal with a decent battery. Everyone needs one.

Re:News for nerds?

[postbigbang]

I can see uses for a cheap dumb terminal. But it's the model where it's a terminal, and not really a computing device that has edge processing beyond coughing a raster.

I've been following portables and laptops since the late 1970s. Even an Osborne I or Kaypro has more usefulness. This is a terminal, a high-cost terminal. It's value as a terminal can be found in a myriad less expensive, vastly more sophisticated forms as cheap laptops-- that don't have the constraints imposed by being, well, just a really cute terminal.

Re:News for nerds?

[f3rret]

They're planning to offer Windows on a rental model to companies, in essence trying to get all IT outsourced to them. That's not their plan for home users.

I mean, it probably is, but not until ChromeOS and OSX are planning on doing it as well. Probably not for 5-10 years at least.

companies already effectively rent Windows. that's how the volume licensing works.

Re:News for nerds?

[AmiMoJo]

Gave a Chromebook to my mum. Linux would be a support nightmare. Only peripherals she needs are a mouse and occasional USB memory stick. Speakers sound fine, 32GB storage is fine.

It's a great low maintenance machine. Somehow they made updates work properly, not like Windows. Some people crap themselves about the cloud stuff but for her having a proper backup is worth the small privacy trade-off, and Chrome with uBlock Origin blocks most of the advertising stuff anyway.

The only real issue she has is that now and then they make a cosmetic change to Chrome, but she had that with Firefox and Pale Moon on Windows too.

Re:News for nerds?

[postbigbang]

Great edge use case. Chromebooks for civilians are not a bad idea.

Re:News for nerds?

[lgw]

Windows free? Nope. Not gonna happen.

Just like Office for free would never happen? Just like .NET would never be open sourced?

MS has money, they need footprint. They'll do whatever works to make that happen, assuming there is any such thing left. They're entirely focused on "cloud and mobile" as a business model.

Re:News for nerds?

[lgw]

Google's pretty good at going after that "99% of people" edge use case.

Re:News for nerds?

[lgw]

Microsoft will never make Windows free.

Just like they'll never make Office free? Just like they'll never open source .NET?

MS has money and needs footprint. They'll do whatever works o get there (assuming any such thing exists). They've prioritized "cloud and mobile" and everything else is secondary. If they think for a minute that giving Windows away (at least, in the consumer space) will help them get market share in "cloud and mobile", they won't even blink. Gates and Balmer were both kicked to the curb to make sure this happens.

As for whether consumers will accept it - of course they will. Renting rather than buying, and paying by Direct Debit, are in fashion, so once MS have your bank details most consumers will hardly notice the MS take amongst the other noise in their bank statement

Even in their wildest dreams, MS won't be half as expensive or annoying as cable TV, and people put up with that shit for decades.

Re:News for nerds?

[vandamme]

I'm typing on a Chromebook Pixel (2014) that I got used for $200. The build quality is excellent, speakers are great, hi-rez touch screen and i5 chip. I put GalliumOS on it (has the drivers for everything) and I'm using an SD card for storage.

My first PC that never had Windows.

Re:News for nerds?

[squiggleslash]

I have both, and TBH I use the Chromebook, despite being underpowered, more than the Ubuntu laptop(s) I have. I use the latter for stuff I can't do using the Chromebook.

Chromebooks are well supported, they're fast, they're lightweight, have tablet like battery lives, and are pleasant to use.

Re:News for nerds?

[toddestan]

Windows free? Nope. Not gonna happen.

I could see the Home version of Windows becoming free, or at least free for the typical home user, as Microsoft tries to remain a player in that market.

The Professional version of Windows? I agree. That's one of their cash cows.

Re:News for nerds?

[postbigbang]

Microsoft makes huge revenue from the OEMs, who in turn, get to have a machine with native Windows as delivered from the store, online or bricks&mortar. They're not giving that up. The only reason Windows 10 was free for a while was their huge gaffe with Windows 8, the absence of 9, and to get people to buy into 10, which has an advertising revenue model, just like their competition.

They don't give up cash cows, as you cite, and no one in LinuxVille (Dell excepted) wants to put Ubuntu or Mint onto their hardware, because people will say, "hey, what's with no Windows?". Bottom line, not gonna be free in the foreseeable future, and Home will be free as an OEM. The OEMs will never go away, and Microsoft makes revenue, hence it costs more to the OEM, so the charge is "hidden" to the end consumer.

No privacy worries as well...

[Anonymous Coward]

With everything stored with a third party provider, I have no need to worry if my data is protected from prying eyes, as it is as protected as Google wants it to be.

No thanks... keep your Chromebooks. A netbook with Tails or even Ubuntu is a lot better on the low end.

Re:No privacy worries as well...

[antdude]

What about an old 15" Apple PowerBook G4 1 Ghz from 2002? I tried to reuse it, but geez so slow and its internal wifi isn't supported in any Linux I tried. :(

True

[Anonymous Coward]

Chromebooks suffer from lack of experience period. They are the most neutered of computers, you can't actually do anything with them.

Re: True

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. A computer is more than a browser. Unless you got a Chromebook...then you just got a browser.

Re:True

[b0s0z0ku]

I thought some can run Android apps, which gives them a halfway-decent ecosystem, especially if you can sideload from .apk file.

Re: True

[tepples]

"Programming"? I'm guessing you either A. put it in "prompt to reformat at every boot" mode or B. bought a Chromebook that supports Crostini, which only a few newer, high-end models can use. Or what option C am I missing?

Re: True

[FictionPimp]

He's an AWS dev and he's actually using cloud9 (which is running a linux virtual machine) and doing his work through a web browser. It works, but it's meh.

I had a dev that used a chromebook for his aws work. It 'worked', but was way more difficult than using a macbook.

Re:True

[Darinbob]

I never lost any data on a Chromebook. Of course, I never actually figured out how to get data onto a Chromebook in the first place...

Re: True

[tepples]

I've seen iPad users suggest using an online IDE as well. But it wouldn't work well for working on hobby projects while riding transit to and from your day job.

C. Pay beaucoup bucks to a cellular ISP (on top what you already pay to your home ISP) for connecting to a server that you access remotely
D. Access a server remotely through Wi-Fi or wired Ethernet and be unable to get any work done during the commute

Re:True

[ole_timer]

...yep, if there's no experience you can't have a bad one...try calculating md5 hashes on 5 million files, indexing them using dtsearch, and then looking to see the matches on a deadbook...

Re:True

[ras]

Chromebooks suffer from lack of experience period. They are the most neutered of computers, you can't actually do anything with them.

We roll out hundreds of PC's to our staff, Most are Windows machines, some are Chromebooks. Google's approach is the browser is the "standardised" computer. It mostly works - it does have access to local storage, can take photos, capture signatures and the other stuff we do, so it's not a bad approximation. To use it efficiently you have to rebuild your infrastructure from scratch re-writing the front end in javascript, but in return you get a platform that works over low bandwidth high latency links, which extends your reach greatly.

The issues mentioned in the video are not exaggerations - they are perennial problem with the WIndows machines we experience on a daily basis. Their WiFi drivers drop out for no apparent reason, they occasionally get stuck in upgrade loops, staff install crap on them (including malware). All this creates work for IT, work that simply vanishes when you use Chromebooks. Or mostly. Google and their suppliers still manage to have the occasional bug that kills us by downloading huge amounts of data over the mobile phone network. The proximate cause varies - it might be Chrome attempting to validate certificates, or a keyboard loading a dictionary. But underneath the bug is always the same - they hit a URL they expect to work, it doesn't work, so they retry immediately. But Windows does the same thing for different reasons. Overall, Chromebooks are a hugely attractive proposition.

Hugely attractive that is, until you discover device ownership and authentication must be managed by Google. Managing all these separate identities, and looking after people who change them, forget them, or otherwise screw them up is a nightmare. Google does have some EMM thing that allows you to do it centrally, but the put an impossibly high bar on joining it.

The end result is despite everything the video says being true, maintaining a fleet of Chromebooks is more work than doing the same for Windows machines. It's a remarkably perverse outcome for something they put so much effort into.

Re:True

[vandamme]

For kids or grandma, that's a good thing.

For me, I lasted a week with ChromeOS, a month with crouton. Now I run GalliumOS and I can do anything.

Different bad user experience...

[b0s0z0ku]

Not having enough local storage to save your work locally all the time, and having to rely on "someone else's computer" to store your personal data. I'd say that qualifies as "bad UX."

Re:Different bad user experience...

[squiggleslash]

Virtually all Chromebooks have an SD card slot. They all have USB. And while the cheapest come with only a little bit of storage built in, "not having enough local storage" is rare in the mid range and high end Chromebooks. So I don't feel like your criticism is entirely fair.

You are definitely encouraged to upload your data, and many applications don't even support local data (because they're websites!) But even that'll change as Crostini matures and becomes mainstream.

Re:Different bad user experience...

[omnichad]

They didn't say it was good. Just that they have different problems.

Re:Different bad user experience...

[tepples]

Finally, the whole thing assumes that you have a 4G or 5G connection all of the time wherever you go.

And the data plan blil for that is substantially more expensive than buying a traditional laptop and relying on sync whenever you're at home or an open WLAN.*

Re:Different bad user experience...

[tepples]

But if you do have mobile with data connection then

...you're probably paying your cellular ISP the equivalent of the price of a laptop every year.

Re:Different bad user experience...

[swillden]

Finally, the whole thing assumes that you have a 4G or 5G connection all of the time wherever you go.

And the data plan blil for that is substantially more expensive than buying a traditional laptop and relying on sync whenever you're at home or an open WLAN.*

Chromebooks can function offline and sync when Wifi is available just fine. No mobile data connection is required.

Re:Different bad user experience...

[farble1670]

Finally, the whole thing assumes that you have a 4G or 5G connection all of the time wherever you go.

Chromebooks do not require a 1Gb 5G mobile data connection.

Re:Different bad user experience...

[b0s0z0ku]

It also allows your data to be shared with and mined by people/entities whom you DON'T give specific permission to.

Re:Different bad user experience...

[Gr8Apes]

You are definitely encouraged to upload your data, and many applications don't even support local data (because they're websites!) But even that'll change as Crostini matures and becomes mainstream.

Just like a leopard grows up into a Boeing 787.

Well....

[Anonymous Coward]

When all you run is a browser, yeah, the software stack is quite straight forward. There's a single point of failure that all your software (and personal data) has: an internet connection. The hardware required to run a browser is quite small as well, without too many variances on mouse, keyboard, display, video driver, wireless networking, and limited storage. If ChromeOS ever tries to do more than just that basic functionality (local storage for example), it's going to have the same sorts of issues all other real computers have.

Re:Well....

[farble1670]

When all you run is a browser, yeah, the software stack is quite straight forward.

They run Android apps now and will run Linux apps soon.

If ChromeOS ever tries to do more than just that basic functionality (local storage for example)

They have local storage, and include a file manager sort of app.

The hardware required to run a browser is quite small as well

Performance-wise, this is a fallacy. Browsers are memory hungry, and CPU intensive. If you buy a $199 Chromebook you are going to get a terrible web browsing experience. And if you buy a core-i level Chromebook, you might as well be purchasing a laptop that runs Linux or Windows because it's going to cost just as much.

Current state of Chrome OS

[nine-times]

I don't know what the current state of ChromeOS is, but there have been a handful of things that have made it unappealing for me.

1) The focus on web apps. I tend to want local native apps. They provide a more consistent UI when they take cues from the OS GUI instead of just being "whatever the web developer thought looked cool." Also, I don't want to figure out what I have to do to get my word processor to work when I'm in airplane mode.
2) The focus on web storage. I want my computer to generally work offline without needing to plan ahead. I generally don't want to have to think, "Oh, I'm gong offline soon, so I should make sure to sync the files I need to my local storage." I just want all my stuff to be there when I need it.
3) Being tied to Google. I have a Google account, but I don't particularly like the idea that I need a Google account just to use my computer. Thought admittedly, Apple and Microsoft have been moving in the same direction, being more aggressive to push you to use iCloud and Microsoft/Azure accounts. Still, I don't like it.

Why can't someone just make a good, reliable, modern computer that works out of the box, without trying to force any personal assistants, online services, app stores, or VR nonsense on you?

Re:Current state of Chrome OS

[btroy]

Here you go: https://puri.sm/

Re:Current state of Chrome OS

[jareth-0205]

I used to be extremely anti- but recently have got a Pixelbook (it was so shiny!) and am happy with it. The addition of Android apps is very useful (particularly since they are usually written to be offline capable).

It can't be my only computer, but in the category of non-work non-gaming non-video/image editing, ie reading / writing / browsing / video watching, they are excellent.

Re:Current state of Chrome OS

[nine-times]

I'm not anti-ChromeOS. I've used it in the past, and it's... nice-ish. It's more that, insofar as they're taking aim at Windows/MacOS, I think they're not a sufficient replacement for many people yet. I, like you, can't use it as my main or only computer, and I only need so many computers for myself.

Cannot take seriously

[wjcofkc]

All I saw in that video was a bunch of no longer applicable OS shit memes. The video provided no compelling marketing. I saw nothing of interest. What was presented looked like a social media consuming toy version of a computer. I am on a Windows 10 machine with an ancient FX 8350 and 16 gigs or ram. I wait for nothing except perhaps for compressing and decompressing multi gigabyte directory structures. I have Linux on an old i5 laptop and it is as fast as it can be. For android I have an S8+. For my serious computing needs I really do need 3 machines for my work, expect for the Android. Half the time my SIM card is in an old BlackBerry Classic because it suits all my mobile needs.

Why would I want this? That is what the video should have covered.

Re:Cannot take seriously

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why would I want this?
> What was presented looked like a social-media-consuming toy version of a computer
Thing is, that's pretty much all the surface dwellers want.

Am I just making a snobby remark? Or have market forces demonstrated (claims surely abound in TFA) that my opinion has a whiff of reality?

Re:Cannot take seriously

[Anonymous Coward]

> For my serious computing needs I really do need 3 machines for my work,

> Why would I want this? That is what the video should have covered.

You don't want it. For those that do want it: it doesn't cost several thousand dollars (or even one thousand) and doesn't need administration to keep it backed up, updated or safe and secure. It just does what it does for a small cost.

Re:Cannot take seriously

[Junta]

no longer applicable OS shit memes

Actually, I have had a great deal of that frustration, with my kid's chromebook!

Audio stop working or start this awful buzzing noise? Reboot!

Chrome extensions mysteriously appearing and adding 'toolbars'.... still happens....

Some intrusive adware pops up and is difficult to isolate... Yes indeed. Once isolated, it's more reliably able to be removed, granted, but they can be more sneaky than I would have guessed.

Thing totally locks up and needs a power cycle? Yes indeed.

Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[evanh]

is always the first thing I think of when I think about Android and ChromeOS ... and Windoze these days too. Can't get any lower than Windoze.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you 4? What a dumbz fuck.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[DontBeAMoran]

Android = Google = ads = tracking
Chrome = Google = ads = tracking
ChromeOS = Google = ads = tracking
Chromebook = Google = ads = tracking
Windows 10 = tracking

The only sane choices left are macOS, Linux and BSD. And since Apple have gone completely insane on the hardware Mac side of things, that leaves Linux and BSD. And we're heard for years that BSD is dying, so that leaves systemD... I mean Linux as the only possible choice.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[farble1670]

I mean Linux as the only possible choice.

You mean, Linux disconnected from a network is the only possible choice. You are on this website logged in. You are being tracked.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[war4peace]

Yes, by choice. Big difference.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[AHuxley]

The customers who place the ads think consumers having to look at their ads is a good experience.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[phantomfive]

Windows 10 has ads, too. At very least the startmenu is filled with ads from the store.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[farble1670]

Yes, by choice. Big difference.

As you stated above, you know Android has tracking. You know Google services have tracking. You know Microsoft tracks.

Why don't you choose not to use that software then? You know, how you choose to use this website?

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[mSparks43]

The difference is, only the best quality commercial support can survive on linux, so all those bits of software that don't care about the users know they have no chance.

  I remember the days when macromedia dreamweaver and flash was the only way to make websites. For example.

Re: Yeah, hidden tracking ...

[squiggleslash]

It's probably true in the sense that:

IE = Google = ads = tracking
Edge = Google = ads = tracking
Safari = Google = ads = tracking
Firefox = Google = ads = tracking

...are also true. They're all web browsers. The web is pretty much dominated by Google.

At the same time, the whole "Google is tracking me" stuff seems overblown. They're tracking some minor historical data and feeding it their into computers that determine what ads to show me, not selling my data to the Internet Research Agency to help Russian trolls identify me and piss me off.

No, that is what Slashdot is doing...

fuck you guys

[Anonymous Coward]

how the fuck does this even make it to the front page? (aboutchromebooks.com) authoring works for Chrome Marketing team.. jesus christ.

Amazing

[110010001000]

Amazing. A company says their products are good. Very insightful article.

#1 slashdot financier = Google is why

[Anonymous Coward]

#1 slashdot financier = Google is why - they "pull the purse strings" here + MANY other sites online. If they can't control your mind by pounding on it (even bad news since even BAD NEWS is news keeping you in the public eye) they lose the crowd. Lose the crowd, you lose customers. If they control your head? They control YOUR ASS!

* That's marketing in a nutshell (along w/ the 1/2 truths & LIES they use) - a mind game!

APK

P.S.=> ... & IF what I said's NOT good enough? BizX former employees can back me easily (see GlassDoor reviews of the Dubai affiliated BizX saying so in fact)... apk

Well...

[thePsychologist]

Headline makes this sound like some kind of study. It's not. It's an ad.

Press Space Enter to lose data

[tepples]

Last I read, only a Chromebook in developer mode can sideload APKs, and in developer mode, the firmware prompts the user on each boot to press keys to disable developer mode (which wipes the drive). So you'll have to end up keeping your Chromebook under lock and key in order to keep someone else from turning it on, following the prompts, and losing all your data since last backup as well as the use of the machine until you can get all your stuff reinstalled. (I wrote about this elsewhere.)

Re:Press Space Enter to lose data

[jareth-0205]

Last I read, only a Chromebook in developer mode can sideload APKs, and in developer mode,

You should read more often:
https://www.androidcentral.com...

Re:Press Space Enter to lose data

[tepples]

From the linked page:

Blockers make us sad. We use ads to keep our content free. Please support us by whitelisting us. You can report badly behaved ads by clicking/tapping the nearby 'Advertisement' text.

[Disable my blocker]

I am using the Tracking Protection feature of Firefox, not an ad blocker. I guess I can add one more to the list of sites that deliberately treat privacy tools no differently from ad blockers instead of falling back to different ads that respect viewers' privacy.

Re:Press Space Enter to lose data

[Yaztromo]

I am using the Tracking Protection feature of Firefox, not an ad blocker. I guess I can add one more to the list of sites that deliberately treat privacy tools no differently from ad blockers instead of falling back to different ads that respect viewers' privacy.

Just disable Javascript and reload. Problem fixed.

More and more I'm leaning towards wanting a browser that permits per-website Javascript white/black listing. Safari added some great per-website settings controls, and just needs to add Javascript blocking to be perfect.

My new motto is "just because I visit your website does NOT give you permission to run your code on my machine". This needs to become more embedded in the general web use and development cultures IMO.

Yaz

Re:Press Space Enter to lose data

[tepples]

More and more I'm leaning towards wanting a browser that permits per-website Javascript white/black listing. Safari added some great per-website settings controls, and just needs to add Javascript blocking to be perfect.

Firefox supports the "JavaScript Switcher" extension by Suraj Jain. It allowed access to the site.

Re:Press Space Enter to lose data

[tepples]

Last I read, only a Chromebook in developer mode can sideload APKs, and in developer mode

You should read more often:
["These are the Chromebooks that can run Android and Linux apps" by Jerry Hildenbrand]

Nothing in that article says anything about support for "sideloading" or "Unknown sources". Instead, it describes which Chromebooks can download and run apps from Google Play Store.

Re:Press Space Enter to lose data

[jareth-0205]

Last I read, only a Chromebook in developer mode can sideload APKs, and in developer mode

You should read more often:
["These are the Chromebooks that can run Android and Linux apps" by Jerry Hildenbrand]

Nothing in that article says anything about support for "sideloading" or "Unknown sources". Instead, it describes which Chromebooks can download and run apps from Google Play Store.

Ah - my mistake, I misunderstood the context. Yes you're right you can't sideload without being in developer mode. Which is annoying, to say the least.

I humbly withdraw my sarcasm.

Re:Press Space Enter to lose data

[slaker]

There's a common browser addon called umatrix that allows users to set fine-grained permissions for different sorts of content, including media, scripts and frames. It's a favorite of mine, except one of its most common bugs is that the UI it uses will occasionally randomly disappear from your user interface. I understand why that functionality isn't built in to mainstream browsers, but I can't browse without it.

Chromebooks are for inexperienced users

[goombah99]

Since virtually everything you can do is something you can do in a browser the comparison point ought to be to firefox not an actual operating systems.

CHeomebooks barely have a user experience. Their abilities are so lightweight it's not asking much that it do it well.

Oh sure you could run them unlocked. I've done it. And I have to say the user experience is insanely painful when you switch it to "debug" mode to allow you to install anything other than the blessed browser based apps. I can tell you that the first time you forget to hold control-D down during any reboot and it wipes the disk, it's a probably the worst possible user experience you could imagine.

Try installing something. Anything from a package manager.... oh wait you can't. You get what they have and it's browser style apps. you can't use any of the other ports.

it's locked down.

So it's the perfect device for 75% of the people out there who are better off being prevented from doing stupid shit than being offered versatility. I might be underestimating that market. It's the toaster of of computers. Even android phones can do more. it's like a firestick with a keyboard.

Re:Chromebooks are for inexperienced users

[Merk42]

So it's the perfect device for 75% of the people out there...

Wow, someone here that realizes their own point of view when it comes to computers is in the minority! That other people (and actually the majority) feel different than they do! A round of applause to you goombah99!!!

Re:Chromebooks are for inexperienced users

[Kurrelgyre]

You haven't paying much attention to that space, have you? https://blog.google/products/c...

Slash Ver Tisement

[sexconker]

To the tune of the Captain Planet theme song:

Slash Ver Tisement! It's appeared, oh.
Gonna take our users down to zero!
With ad dollars, maximized,
We'll once more try to sell this site.

Slash Ver Tisement! It's appeared, oh.
Gonna take our users down to zero!
Gonna make our users wonder
Why they still click after, every blunder!

You'll pay for this, Slash Ver Tisement!

We're the Slashdotqueers.
You can be one too!
'Cause trolling on this site is the thing to do.
Leaving and ignoring is not the way,
Hear what Slash Ver Tisement has to say:

"THIS SITE IS FUCKING DEAD!"

Re:clearly...

[DarkRookie]

Hardware is a yes. That has improved a lot in the last 10 years.
Software on the otherhand, has been an ongoing march on how shitty things can be.

No crappy user experience?

[bungo]

I'm writing this on a Google i5 Pixel Chromebook.

The god-damn bluetooth keeps turning off. If I put it to sleep, there's a 50-50 chance than the bluetooth just turns off and a reboot is needed to get it working again.

Google do not have a fix. Lots of people have the same problem.

This is a crappy user experience.

And this thing was damn expensive as well.

Re:No crappy user experience?

[MobileC]

Replying on an Acer Chromebook 14 Work here.
85% battery, 17hrs left.
The sound sometimes mutes and requires a restart, but other than that, as I'm not doing as much photo/video editing these days, my Mac Book Air has been put up for sale.
This thing was cheap as well.

Re:No crappy user experience?

[Waccoon]

To be fair, things not working after waking up from sleep has been a problem for 20+ years. Windows... Mac... doesn't matter.

A crappy experience is just the accepted standard. No surprise Google isn't doing better than anyone else.

Neither does an iPad

[SuperKendall]

And an iPad is way more functional than a Chromebook.

Re:Neither does an iPad

[ArchieBunker]

An iPad comes with a full keyboard, an SD card slot, and the ability to run Linux?

Hmmmm...

[Actually, I do RTFA]

The ad told me not to buy a Chromebook; strange ad. It said "If you want a modern, which means tablet-like, laptop, with app icons on a desktop and full-screen only apps, you should buy a chromebook." Which is strange, cause I already have a tablet. And they are great for doing things. But I buy a laptop to work.

Also, I don't remember the last time I saw a blue screen of death, and I'm around a lot of computers all day. Many of those computers are run by idiots.

I'd be curious to see if the ad was successful.

Re:Hmmmm...

[pr0fessor]

I rarely see BSOD as well and usually when I do it's a hardware related issue not the operating system.

Re:Hmmmm...

[toddestan]

Most people never see a BSOD because by default, Windows is set to reboot when a BSOD happens.

The vast majority of the very few I see are from graphics card drivers, which may be the actual hardware too.

What a complete load of crap

[Anonymous Coward]

We picked up a couple where I used to work and found them to be completely unusable for any office task. Want to present something? good luck. Connect to WIDI? forget it. How about RDP? nope. RDS? Naw. Two tasks at a time? why would you want to?!?! Lets load a project file. Nope. Word? covert it first.

We ere a g-suite customer, and STILL found the time to be a complete waste of space.

Tons of hardware and power stymied by the worst excuse for a garbage OS ever conceived. No bad user experience... WTF

Can you install Linux/etc. on these?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I've heard horror stories about how Chromebooks are supposed to be upgradable to Linux, but they aren't and then wipe your install and data. Does anyone have any idea if these will upgrade and stick?

Re:Can you install Linux/etc. on these?

[farble1670]

It's possible to run Linux on some Chromebook models, and not others. And it's a big YMMV situation. Don't expect a clean experience. If you want a Linux laptop but a laptop that ships with some flavor of Linux. That ensures there at least exists drivers for all the hardware components.

Re:Can you install Linux/etc. on these?

[bungo]

You can run Linux on Google Pixels, but to do this, you need to activate developer mode, and this indeed will wipe it and do a factory reset.

Google do have a version of Linux that is in beta, that when it is released, it will enable Linux to be installed in a container. This will not need to use developer mode and will not need a wipe. I'm currently waiting on this, and I'll install it as soon as it is released properly.

This will only really run on high end Chromebooks, like Google's and the new one from Samsung.

Re:Can you install Linux/etc. on these?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Wait, ChromeOS doesn't use Linux drivers?

Re:Can you install Linux/etc. on these?

[farble1670]

Wait, ChromeOS doesn't use Linux drivers?

Android uses Linux drivers as well, but for some reason, there isn't just some universal Android dist out there that can be plopped on any device and run. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to solve that mystery.

Chromebooks suck

[nwaack]

I can do the same exact thing that a chromebook does using my el-cheapo Synology NAS with my laptop, desktop, phone, etc. AND I get to keep control of my data.

Then its not for you

[ArchieBunker]

Gee it really takes a genius to figure out a Chromebook is not the product for you. They have their uses but this isn't a one size fits all solution.

Re:Then its not for you

[nine-times]

Well no, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a Chromebook is not the product for me. But I'm responding to an ad where Google seems to be trying to convince me that it is for me (or at least people in general).

Last I checked on ChromeOS, using ChromeOS for your main computer was a bit like trying to use an iPad as your main computer. Like... yeah, for some people it'll work. But generally, no.

Simple products that do less have less errors

[Arkham]

This seems pretty obvious. A Chromebook is woefully inadequate to do what I use my work computer for on a daily basis. It's the same reason I didn't replace my $3000 MBP with an iPad.

If I were to use my Mac purely for running Safari or Chrome in full screen mode, I suspect I'd see a lot less confusing stuff that way too.

Re:Simple products that do less have less errors

[sexconker]

Simple products that do less have less errors

The word you want is "fewer". Simple products that do fewer have less errors.

Re:clearly...

[Junta]

Eh, in 2007 Vista had just come out. Windows 7 was a ways out. Mobile platforms were pretty much proprietary one off practically speaking. Windows 10 from a technology perspective isn't too shabby, but from a business and logistics standpoint, controversial to say the least. It *could* be better (two dimensions of virtual desktops, having window title search in their 'expose' clone, having their 'expose' clone actually show all the windows, instead of going the other way and sucking up real estate with a big 'recent documents' interface.

On the Linux side, compositing was a novelty and not yet baked. Gnome 2 would have another 3 years of life. For all the complaining, each step has left a more rich ecosystem. Sure, KDE lost it's mind in KDE 4, but by the time Gnome decided to lose their minds, KDE had gotten back to pretty sane. MATE happened to maintain and modernize the Gnome 2 experience, lightweight desktops never gave up... Gnome shell is... better than it used to be, but Plasma desktop remains my go-to for rich customization.

I'd say

The best part is

[SuperKendall]

An iPad comes with a full keyboard

Yes IF YOU WANT IT TO. You seem to hate choice. Ironic for a UNIX user.

, an SD card slot, and the ability to run Linux?

The thing about an iPad is, it actually comes usable as shipped and I would argue for 99% of people the iPad is more usable as shipped than Linux installed to a Chromebook.

The iPad actually has far vaster commercial software support.

Re:The best part is

[ArchieBunker]

Tell me about all this commercial software people are buying for iPads. Most people use them to consume content.

Why did you buy a Chromebook in the first place?

[mykepredko]

Jeez Louise,

Any time a story about Chromebooks and ChromeOS comes up here: people whine about their Chromebooks and how they can't run their own apps, the systems don't have much local storage, the UI is limited, etc.

Shouldn't you have known all these things before you plunked your money down and bought one?

Requires Service Worker support

[tepples]

Chromebooks can function offline and sync when Wifi is available just fine.

Provided that the web application that you are using on your Chromebook uses Service Workers to work offline. How widespread is full support for Service Workers? This topic claims that things like Amazon Cloud9 IDE don't support it.

...as though the goal is no bad user experiences?.

[ole_timer]

...what dumb everything down until there's no bad experiences? how insane of them - the goal should be more lofty than that...

It is advertorial but it's also true

[julian67]

It is advertorial but it's also true. In my tiny, anecdotal experience:

Helping friends and family with keeping their Windows systems functional was horrible and occurred too frequently for everyone concerned. Non technical users have true difficulty in describing the very real problems they do definitely encounter in using traditional desktop operating systems. Sometimes the OS or applications update and new problems arise; sometimes the users explore and try stuff and encounter bugs or deeply a unhelpful UI that leaves them unable to undo changes. It's really hard to diagnose this stuff, or often even to have it demonstrated to you. I did try encouraging people to try Linux based systems (I did the installs as am not a total sadist) and, of course, the Windows issues are negated but other stuff crops up which seems just as bewildering for the user. The fact that it is much easier to fix or explain for me is totally beside the point to them.

Chromebooks have pretty much killed off these socially awkward situations. Occasionally I'm asked about a seemingly insurmountable problem and I can say clever stuff like "it's down to Chrome caching everything, even your typos when trying to log in places, just power it right down and restart." This works a mere 99% of the time. The remaining 1% is when the poor user imagines they can set up their fully functional USB printer or scanner. Hahahahahahahaha. Easy answer though: "Buy a new one that is certified to work with Chromebooks so Google can parse all your printed matter".

I don't use a Chromebook, but I definitely encourage their use by any person who I would otherwise expect to seek PC help via family/friend networks.

Re:It is advertorial but it's also true

[SlideWRX]

Seriously?!? Your explanation for Chromebook being better is that tech support is "Did you try turning it off and back on again?"?!?!? Oh wait, your other response is to look for the MS 'works for sure' label - Er, I mean, 'certified for chromebooks'.

Re:It is advertorial but it's also true

[julian67]

Yes, seriously, that's exactly it. It's low effort, low maintenance for *me*. I like that.

Complicated stuff huh?

Next please.

Official docs still say developer mode is required

[tepples]

I reread today.

From "How to Sideload an Android App From an APK on a Chromebook" by Chris Hoffman:

Step One: Put Your Chromebook Into Developer Mode

If you’re used to Android, you know that you need to enable the “Unknown Sources” option to install apps that aren’t available in Google Play. However, this option is hidden and not normally available on Chrome OS.

To access this option, you’ll need to put your Chromebook into developer mode
[...]
If you don’t see the Unknown Sources option here, your Chromebook isn’t in developer mode. This option only appears here when your Chromebook is in developer mode, so try going through Step One again.

I concede that this article was published two years ago. Let's try a more recent article from January 2018, "You'll Soon be Able to Sideload Android Apps on your Chromebook Without Developer Mode" by Arol Wright:

app sideloading's been available since the rollout of Android app support on the platform, but it currently requires enabling Developer mode. However, this might be changing very soon, according to a code commit spotted in Chrome OS.
[...]
easier Chrome OS sideloading won't come to consumer devices right away -- the commit references enterprise Chromebooks such as those in businesses and schools. When the feature is live, Chrome OS administrators will be able to toggle APK sideloading on and off on fleets of devices with a simple switch.

It's not certain yet whether Google will roll sideloading support out to regular, consumer Chromebooks in the near or far future.

Has this gone live on non-enterprise Chrome OS yet? It appears not, as "Load apps on Chromebooks" from the official Android documentation still states as of today:

Enabling unknown sources is available only when your device is in Developer mode.

Re:Official docs still say developer mode is requi

[jareth-0205]

Has this gone live on non-enterprise Chrome OS yet?

Yes. The link I posted is a list of stable-channel Chromebooks that run Google Play. It's not all, they run inside some sort of virualisation so the hardware has to have a bit of grunt to do it and probably only certain instruction sets are supported. There are about 20 models on the list and any modern one probably will run it.

Laptop?

[ChoGGi]

I know everyone calls them laptops, but I thought that was a no-no when it came to marketing material?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Keyboard, Mouse, Cut n Paste, Multi Window

[Tough Love]

Keyboard, Mouse, Cut n Paste, Multi Window. Classic desktop usability requirements with well known and familiar solutions These suck donkey balls on both Android and Chromebook.

Cut and paste... it's just maddening, that's the only word for it. Why do I need to hunt around for a paste option that is a menu option, different in every application if it even exists? Come on you guys, you know you hacked this thing together in a couple days back in the dim history of early Android. So spend a couple more weeks and fix it, ok?

Mouse does almost work except crappy. I'm not going to go into it, try it. While at it, try to cut and paste with the mouse. Compare to how it works in Windows or Linux.

Keyboard shortcuts... unmitigated disaster. Coordination between mouse and keyboard, even worse.

Multiwindow support, don't get me started. This is not rocket science.

Hey Google smart people: IF YOU SAY THAT CHROMEBOOK DOES NOT SUFFER FROM BAD USER EXPERIENCE THEN YOU ARE LYING AND YOU KNOW IT

Great for your Grandparents and tech illiterates

[Sarusa]

Chromebooks are perfect for people who are tech support nightmares you don't want to support. You know that guy at work who can't be trusted with the toaster. You can't even trust him with a Mac.

It's hellish for anyone who knows what they're doing though, unless all you want to do is web browse and write documents. I've tried. Way too limited.

Nope, iPads are for creation.

[SuperKendall]

Not that I've seen - look at Affinity Photo for example, and the just released Affinity Designer.

A lot of photographers I know are replacing a laptop for use in editing and reviewing photos while traveling, with an iPad.

A lot of writers I know prefer using the iPad on airplanes because you actually have room to type and they are more durable/backup easier (since app data is backed up to iCloud automatically when an iPad connects to a WiFi network).

I use my iPad way more for creation/editing than I do to watch anything.

Re:Nope, iPads are for creation.

[SuperKendall]

It's backing up data from actually useful apps as opposed to whatever limited stuff you are doing from a. Chromebook...

Have had direct experience with three Chromebooks

[aussersterne]

trying to help people who'd bought them to make use of them. One each from Acer, Lenovo, and HP.

Things:

1) The screens are absolute crap, hard to look at. They remind me of the very first active matrix color LCD panels. Fuzzy, sparkly, unclear, low-viewing-angle, low-contrast terrible.

2) You can do three things with them, as far as I can tell. Web, email, and Google Docs. Need to open a file someone sent you? Good luck. Need to print it out? Good luck. Need to share the things that you create with someone else who's not using a Chromebook and Google's ecosystem? Good luck.

3) Mac OS does web apps better, ironically. The web apps in Chrome OS are fragile. Renderbugs, whyd-it-crashes, oh-no-a-glitches galore.

4) And there aren't very many apps of any kind that are useful in any way. As I said, basically web, email, and Google Docs.

I think you get more apps, and better mileage, and better portability, and better battery life, and a better screen, and a better experience overall, out of an Android tablet.

Re:Why did you buy a Chromebook in the first place

[goombah99]

Reading comprehension issue? Maybe you didn't finish reading what I wrote before you posted?

So a product made for simpletons is popular with..

[Kagetsuki]

The whole point of the Chromebook is to be a machine people who can't properly use an actual OS can use. I'd imagine this is the same kind of market that wants to do their accounting on their iPad and finds it more comfortable to write mail and documents on their phone than on their computer.

Rental desktops should be enough for everyone

[bursch-X]

Said nobody ever.

Cryptic Errors?

[Agripa]

They solved cryptic errors by failing without reporting any error. With no error, there is no error report and no problem to solve.