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Windows 10 Continues To Close in On Windows 7 (betanews.com)

An anonymous reader writes: NetMarketShare reports on the state of the desktop operating system market on the first day of each month. [...] In July, [the market share of] Windows 10 went from 35.71 percent to 36.58 percent, an increase of 0.87 percentage points. That's down from the 0.97 percentage points it grew in June, but shows that the OS is still packing on share at a steady rate. In July, Windows 7 lost 0.51 percentage points and now sits on 41.23 percent, just 4.65 percentage points ahead of the newer OS.

126 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Spyware... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Spyware continues to be forced on users ... news at 11.

    1. Re:Spyware... by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, Windows 7 has been slowly upgraded to spyware, too.

    2. Re:Spyware... by Kenja · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're comments have been noted, and are being added to your permanent record.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    3. Re:Spyware... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      As have yours.

      --
      Check your premises.
    4. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Mine hasn't. You see, in Windows 7, you can choose which updates you install...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    5. Re: Spyware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have yet to see a convincing account of what information Windows 10 actually sends to MS. Microsoft certainly hasn't been transparent about it?

      If it's innocuous, why not give users the option to turn it off?

    6. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can tell Fake News from real news.

      How can you tell real telemetry vs spyware? You cannot. Therefore assume the worst.

    7. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Run Tronscript after updates. It removes Windows 7 telemetry updates automagically.

    8. Re:Spyware... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Is there a PC on sale with Windows 7 on it?

      If there was then these numbers might not happen.

      --
      No sig today...
    9. Re:Spyware... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Only if you're a complete muppet and cannot type "remove windows 7 telemetry" into google, in case you don't read what updates actually do. Because if you do, the first result will be this page:

      https://gist.github.com/xvital...

      You're welcome.

    10. Re:Spyware... by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Windows 10 has been gathering intelligence on Windows 7 for some and is nearly ready to make its move.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    11. Re:Spyware... by datavirtue · · Score: 2

      Thousands of refurbished corporate laptops and desktops...yes. Most are in perfect condition and have gobs of RAM and modern CPUs.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    12. Re: Spyware... by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      So insert a proxy server between your Windows 10 PC and the internet and find out.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    13. Re: Spyware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, "yours" is correct.

      https://writingexplained.org/yours-vs-your-s-difference

    14. Re:Spyware... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      Indeed.

      Is there a full descriptive list of recommended KB updates to install since MS can't actually provide a 1-line summary of each KB ?

    15. Re:Spyware... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mine hasn't. You see, in Windows 7, you can choose which updates you install...

      Only if you've stopped installing updates entirely or been exceptionally diligent. If you've installed any of the rollup patches available through Windows Update since October 2016 you got it all. Even the one that says security is actually security for this month plus both security and non-security patches from previous months if you read the fine print, you're just one month behind on the spyware. The only way to get security-only patches on a home version version of Windows is to download them from WSUS via a third-party tool and install them manually, one per month. Note that these are not cumulative so if you need to reinstall you need all of them.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    16. Re: Spyware... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      So insert a proxy server between your Windows 10 PC and the internet and find out.

      By staring at encrypted packets you can't decrypt?

    17. Re: Spyware... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Considering MS just started to list their 79+ endpoints, I doubt they care about users knowing what data they actually send:

      https://docs.microsoft.com/en-...

      --
      --
      Only children censor.
      Adults discuss, and even laugh about "taboo" subjects.

    18. Re: Spyware... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Generate a root certificate, have your clients trust it, and have your MITM proxy issue certificates that chain back to it so that it can decrypt and reencrypt these packets.

    19. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's all I purchase now, off-lease corporate computers that run Windows 7 just fine. Many of them now come "upgraded" with Windows 10 by the refurbisher, however most either contain a license built into the BIOS for a previous version of Windows or a COA sticker for a previous version. I've even had great success in asking refurbishers to upgrade the systems back to Windows 7 before delivery, or sell to me cheaper with no OS so I can install it myself.

      I won't purchase a new computer for 2 reasons: the CPU is locked to Windows 10 (not technically, but Microsoft will not let Win 7 updates occur on generation 7 and above CPUs, you'll need to do them manually), and new systems come preloaded with Win 10. You simply can't find a new computer without the Microsoft tax (Windows) attached to it.

      I hope when Win 7 finally hits EOL that more manufactures start offering systems with Linux preloaded and configured for those that do not have the know-how to do it themselves.

    20. Re: Spyware... by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      Yeah, because I'm sure Microsoft doesn't have their own second CA list built into Windows you can't alter.
      Kinda like how you can just block Microsoft's servers in your HOSTS file and it wont just ignore it. Oh wait, they've been doing that since XP.

    21. Re:Spyware... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the utility name -- looks very cool !

      https://github.com/bmrf/tron/b...

    22. Re:Spyware... by antdude · · Score: 1

      Not really. In the past, WU used to have every single updates separated. Recently, they put them together as commulatives. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    23. Re:Spyware... by luther349 · · Score: 1

      plebs keep using windows. report at 8

    24. Re:Spyware... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Mine hasn't. You see, in Windows 7, you can choose which updates you install...

      Cool story. The reality however is that 99.99% of non-corporate Windows 7 installs out there are either malware infested cesspools thanks to updates being completely disabled, or have the telemetry installed.

      I've never met a normal user who scrutinises updates on a per KB number level.

    25. Re:Spyware... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That is truly a breach of privacy! I need warn someone. > "Okay Google, post the following on Facebook: ..."

    26. Re:Spyware... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Even if I had to remove the recently upgraded spyware (damn MS creeps) manually, it is possible to do so.

      When I move to Win 10, I will treat it as inherently untrusted and compromised by design. That means all my email, web-surfing, etc. will be on Linux, the Win10 machine will essentially be a game console.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    27. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      That's a fair point, but at least with 7 you have the option.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    28. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      That is true, but you can get monthly cumulative updates that only include the security fixes. They don't make it easy (those updates aren't distributed via the normal Windows Update mechanism) but at least the possibility exists.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    29. Re:Spyware... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Indeed! I agree there's no justification for not having complete control of updates.

    30. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Yes. For home use, I'm already wary of devices like Chromecasts that want network access but have uncertain internal behaviour. I'm not a big believer in IoT hype, as I think a lot of these devices are solutions in search of problems, but some of them are actually useful. However, I'm coming around to the idea that we should isolate most home devices the same way we would isolate untrusted equipment at the office, with nothing but themselves and an Internet connection.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    31. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Only if you've stopped installing updates entirely or been exceptionally diligent.

      It's true that Microsoft make it unnecessarily difficult to install just the security patches on 7 for non-enterprise users, but at least it is possible via an official channel. That's more than you can say of 10.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    32. Re: Spyware... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      No, "yours" is correct.

      Yes, but you missed the chance for an awesome grammar joke.

      --
      No sig today...
    33. Re:Spyware... by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

      You may already be aware of this, but W7 thinks it has to reconnect with MS every several months to validate the license. I have several machines at work that are not connected to the network, and display a "this is not genuine Windows" message despite being 100% legit. To get rid of the nag message, you have to connect the machine to the network (license server). All the workarounds I've tried are temporary.

    34. Re: Spyware... by tepples · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see how Microsoft would get around blocking all Internet access other than through the proxy.

    35. Re:Spyware... by antdude · · Score: 1

      What's the hard way like?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    36. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      There are monthly, non-cumulative updates available with only the security updates, if you download them directly from the Microsoft Update Catalog and install them manually with the wusa command line tool. Go to https://www.catalog.update.mic... and search for (as an example) KB3212642.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    37. Re:Spyware... by antdude · · Score: 1

      Oh, wow. Tedious and slow to do. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    38. Re:Spyware... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Indeed. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't have provided this through Windows Update on Windows 7 if they wanted to. It's just the usual abuse of their customers from Microsoft ever since they started going all control-freak-spyware-y.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    39. Re:Spyware... by dddux · · Score: 1

      Really? It does that? I'm not aware of it because I use Windows [7] only for making music and editing videos. I only use this bloody thing because I'm forced to. I wouldn't even dream of connecting to the Internet with it. That's what I have Debian Linux for. Whoever connects to the Internet with Windows must be out of his mind.

      --
      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
  2. 0.87% by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    An increase of 0.87% with a error range of +- 20%. I love statistics.

    1. Re: 0.87% by The+Original+CDR · · Score: 1

      "Lies, damn lies, and statistics!" - Old Vulcan Proverb

  3. ORLY? by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And Windows 10 continues to be the only Windows OS being offered by OEMs and Microsoft itself. With older computers dying or being utilized, you have to wonder which OS is going to become more widespread. Except you don't.

    Oh, and Windows 7 will cease to be supported in 2020 while Windows 8 expiry date is set to 2023.

    1. Re:ORLY? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Unsupported doesn't mean non-functional. Also, Windows 7 is quite easy to re-install on new hardware, even given an existing OEM key...

    2. Re:ORLY? by Drethon · · Score: 1

      And Windows 10 continues to be the only Windows OS being offered by OEMs and Microsoft itself. With older computers dying or being utilized, you have to wonder which OS is going to become more widespread. Except you don't.

      Oh, and Windows 7 will cease to be supported in 2020 while Windows 8 expiry date is set to 2023.

      This all sounds so familiar...

    3. Re:ORLY? by GerryGilmore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And that is just another reason that I am *SO* glad that I switched to Linux years ago.
      Anyone whining about Windows today has only themselves to blame.

    4. Re:ORLY? by nukenerd · · Score: 2

      No, it's because a software company is using an OS as a trojan horse for spyware and preventing you from controlling your own PC.

    5. Re: ORLY? by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's sad that people cannot or choose not to use Google. From ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet ) Windows lifecycle fact sheet:

      Client operating systems    End of mainstream support   End of extended support
      Windows 8.1                 January 9, 2018             January 10, 2023
      Windows 7, service pack 1*  January 13, 2015            January 14, 2020

    6. Re:ORLY? by GerryGilmore · · Score: 2

      Not to mention FORCING you to migrate to their latest shiny, new, "mobile" interface, while said upgrades break and change things willy-nilly. Oh! Let's not forget that the most trivial "update" requires at least one - if not more - reboots which always occur at the most inopportune times. LOTS of reasons to ditch Windows.

    7. Re: ORLY? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 Retail can always be removed and reinstalled on a new PC. And it's legally transferrable. You can buy a copy even now.

    8. Re: ORLY? by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      Because nobody would prefer to run an 8-year-old version of Linux over the current ones.

    9. Re:ORLY? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Windows is trying to avoid conflicts that arise from a "mixed binary" situation, where different running processes are linking to different versions of a system library. It's the same reason Ubuntu got a bunch of "reboot-required" notifications a few years back, when OpenSSL was being updated rapidly to fix a whole bunch of newly discovered vulnerabilities.

    10. Re: ORLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Find me a decent parametric CAD software that runs on Linux and I'll switch tomorrow. Right now Pro-E/CREO, Solid works, and the rest are windows only.

      Unfortunately, some of us have to keep a god-forsaken windows box around. Whether we like it or not.

    11. Re:ORLY? by luther349 · · Score: 1

      system 76 linux machines. enjoy.

    12. Re:ORLY? by luther349 · · Score: 1

      game support has came a long way. even from just a year ago some badass new wine api have brought it back to supporting newer titles.

    13. Re:ORLY? by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Windows was created by white people and is now maintained by indian people.

      That goes right to the top.

    14. Re:ORLY? by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      I made the switch to Linux years ago. I found it a bit harder to use, and it couldn't run half the games I wanted to play. So I gave up on it

      You have a point, but use dual boot. Windows for games and Linux for everything else (if you do anything else).

    15. Re:ORLY? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Yeah right, I bet you can't play 90% of PC games that were released in the last 3 years without massive headaches mucking about re-installing and having to re-write lines in config files or try a myriad of different combinations of obscure settings and praying that you can get to the end of the game without some new game stopping issue happening, and that's when they work at all.

      Windows 7 actually plays games better than Windows 10, Windows 10 broke a lot of game related stuff. I'm glad I never installed 10 even from a gaming perspective.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    16. Re: ORLY? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Stick a box in the corner with x2go. You can load all your linux apps on Windows, seamlessly, similar to citrix. You can also do a full desktop if you prefer.

    17. Re:ORLY? by vandamme · · Score: 1

      Chromebook with crouton or GalliumOS.

    18. Re:ORLY? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Likewise, there is nothing about OpenSSL that requires a reboot. Just restart any important servers/apps using it and you're good to go.

      I guess Canonical's logic is that in a typical situation, there are so many "important servers/apps using it" that restarting them but not the kernel is just as disruptive to the user experience as restarting both them and the kernel. In practice, how much of the boot process is spent before X starts compared to after?

  4. Well... by erp_consultant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not like people are "adopting" anything. If you buy a new PC it's going to come pre-installed with Windows 10, unless it's a MAC. A better indicator would be how many people are buying a Windows 10 disc and voluntarily replacing their current OS with it. I suspect that number is very very low.

    1. Re:Well... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Are Win 10 "upgrades" still being foisted on Win 7 users using deceptive downloaders?

    2. Re:Well... by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

      They sell Windows 10 install media? What would anyone use that for? lol I know, but just needed to say it.

      Just my 2 cents ;)

    3. Re:Well... by NG+Resonance · · Score: 1

      I don't see what Media Access Control has to do with Macintosh computers in this context.

    4. Re:Well... by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      They shouldn't be, considering that the offer for "free downgrade to windows 10" has expired.

    5. Re:Well... by luther349 · · Score: 1

      osx is total garbage these days.

    6. Re:Well... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

      Agreed. That's why I switched to Linux :-)

    7. Re:Well... by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's outdated. macOS is much better.

    8. Re:Well... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      How? Even the update for version for disabled people was stopped some time ago.

  5. Upgrades. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Being that PC's are being sold at a higher rate for the first time in a while, We can expect to see Windows 10 market share to go up.

    As much as we want to Hate on Windows 10... Microsoft Windows Sales have been tied to General PC Sales. The length of Windows 7 in the market is mostly due to the fact that Windows 7 PC's have been the primary computers for people for many years, and now these systems are start to show their age and become out of date. Back before Windows 7 the Average Live Span for a PC was 4-6 years now it is 6-10 years. Thanks mostly in part to Mobile devices that forced OS makers and software designers to focus more on lower end systems. So That 2008 Windows 7 PC, for most people would be finally really showing its age. 4Gigs of Ram is getting tight, and that Duel Core is quite quaint. So people get a new computer and they Get Windows 10 on it.

    Previous to Windows 7 That 2002 PC in 2008 would be really showing its age. and that 1998 vs 2002 PC would show age too.

    The Slow increase of Windows 10, is just because PC Sales have been slow too.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Upgrades. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As much as we want to Hate on Windows 10... Microsoft Windows Sales have been tied to General PC Sales.

      Maybe PC sales were lower in part because of waiting for and then disappointment with Windows 10. From the correlation alone, we can't tell.

      Your fundamental point is valid, but it's pretty embarrassing for Microsoft that its shiny new flagship product still hasn't overtaken its tried-and-tested legacy product after all this time, even though they literally gave it away to any home user who wanted to upgrade (and apparently a few who didn't...) and stopped offering the alternatives so anyone buying those new computers can't choose the older version even if they'd prefer it.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    2. Re:Upgrades. by nukenerd · · Score: 2

      it's pretty embarrassing for Microsoft that its shiny new flagship product still hasn't overtaken its tried-and-tested legacy product after all this time, even though they literally gave it away to any home user who wanted to upgrade (and apparently a few who didn't...)

      "gave it away to any ... who wanted" is an understatement - more like "forced upon even those who did not want" *. Given that, I am amazed that the Win7 share remains as high as it is. I understand that the "upgrade" happened to the user unless he made some effort to avoid it - in my case I disabled upgrades in Win7.

      * I know, I know, MS apologists will deny it was a forced upgrade because it was possible to avoid it, even though the average Joe would not have known how, or even been aware of the upgrade shenanigan before it happened to them (even if then).

    3. Re:Upgrades. by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Except for the few neck beards that hang around here, most people love Windows 10. You guys are waaaay off base.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    4. Re:Upgrades. by guacamole · · Score: 1

      So That 2008 Windows 7 PC

      A Sandy Bridge desktop or laptop from 2011 or 2012 can still be a formidable gaming box or a developer rig. Likewise, Windows 8 PCs from before 2015 can be even more capable. I actually bought a brand new Dell XPS workstation running Windows 7 as recently as 2016.

    5. Re:Upgrades. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except for the few neck beards that hang around here, most people love Windows 10.

      Of course they do. That's why there are still more Windows 7 users even several years after 10 launched.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    6. Re:Upgrades. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except for the few neck beards that hang around here, most people love Windows 10. You guys are waaaay off base.

      This must be why most PC vendors were selling new PCs while advertising "downgrade rights" up front in the product description for years.

      Also explains why after a whole year of Microsoft failing to give Windows 10 away for free they finally resorted to underhanded tricks to force people to upgrade against their will.

      Bottom line Windows 10 is MALWARE and nobody actually wants to be stalked or spied upon.

    7. Re:Upgrades. by luther349 · · Score: 1

      i know people still sporting pentum 4. only gamers give a crap about there hardware.of course i have to brake it to them that 32 bit is going away and they have to replace that machine.

    8. Re:Upgrades. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Maybe PC sales were lower in part because of waiting for and then disappointment with Windows 10.

      Unlikely. PC sales have been on an almost linear decline since the iPad was released, or since Intel Core series processors and that horrible "Netbook" craze died. Pick your poison. Either way everyone who needed a computer had a computer and stopped upgrading computers at fast rates. This isn't anything due to Windows, it's been a long time since Windows was a driver of PC upgrades. It's more of a reflection that we are approaching a replacement / maintenance phase of the industry.

    9. Re:Upgrades. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for anyone else, but my small businesses were holding off on new PCs as much as possible during the Windows 8 era in the hope that 10 would fix the much-criticised UI issues. When 10 turned out to actually be worse because of all the privacy and update nonsense, and Microsoft appeared to be doubling down on that strategy, we started spending real money on trying out various alternative platforms.

      I don't know how many other people or smaller businesses did something similar, but anecdotally the number is certainly more than zero among my personal contacts. So while new PCs might not have been driving Windows sales up, it's certainly true to some degree that recent versions of Windows have been pushing new PC sales down.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    10. Re:Upgrades. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      but my small businesses were holding off on new PCs as much as possible

      My point was the opposite. There's no doubt in the Windows 8 era there were holdouts. That was a spectacular turd. However... why did they need new PCs? My point exactly was that windows comes on PCs as part of replacement programs.

      The trend is correlated perfectly, aside from the forced update issue 3 years ago.

  6. Oh well by oldgraybeard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is as expected. Microsoft per their marketing plan will force as many as they can on to Windows 10. Up to this point I have resisted and still run Windows 7 Pro on my Windows workstations. Not sure I will ever go for Windows 10. Or just phase Windows workstations out and stick to my Linux and Mac workstations. I stopped doing Windows development work over 10 years ago anyway. And just keep 1 Windows 7 Pro workstation at my office and one in my home office now.

    One thing I do know "I will never use a DaaS workstation for any of my development work or to run my business". Heck, I don't even use any cloud based apps for any real work.

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    1. Re:Oh well by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Yep - imagine wanting privacy/control, and not giving a bunch of meddlers in Redmond access to your confidential data.

    2. Re:Oh well by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

      Wait! There are Russians in Redmond? ;) lol

    3. Re:Oh well by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Microsoft uses many of the same tactics as Russian hackers -- they just managed to buy enough judges and politicians to avoid fines and jail.

    4. Re:Oh well by deKernel · · Score: 2

      Make a suggestion, virtualize the environment and call it a day. Personally, I have been using VMWare for years now, and I doubt I will go back. I have several VM's depending on customers requirements so I just spool up the VM and off I go. If your host hardware dies, just reinstall (I use Linux) the OS, install VMWare and bring over backups of the VMs and you are ready.

    5. Re:Oh well by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Microsoft per their marketing plan will force as many as they can on to Windows 10.

      Err no. Windows 10 sales are now being almost exclusively driven by PC sales. What are MS going to do? Provide a formally EOL OS to users? There's not marketing plan about it, Windows 7 is not provided for new installs, and no sane person would expect it to be.

    6. Re:Oh well by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

      Might be, I was actually thinking more about something I read earlier related to Windows 10 Enterprise (I think) going to a DaaS subscription service where everything is run and controlled from the cloud by Microsoft.

      Looked again and found this.
      With DaaS Windows coming, say goodbye to your PC as you know it

      When Windows 7 Pro goes EOL unless something changes that is when my Microsoft experience ends ;)

      Just my 2 cents ;)

    7. Re:Oh well by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The day Windows starts charging by the month is the day you'll see a lot of Linux adoption. Consumers are quite happy to be treated like shit for free, they have far less tolerance for it even with a small fee.

      But ultimately that isn't exclusive from the trends. MS may be moving towards DaaS, but IF (big IF) consumers chose to adopt it, they will do so when their old PC melts into a puddle.

  7. Businesses are finally converting by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Businesses are finally comfortable with upgrading.

    1. Re:Businesses are finally converting by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mugging victims are finally comfortable with handing over their jewelry... in this case, the "gun" is the 2020 support expiry data on Windows 7.

    2. Re:Businesses are finally converting by nukenerd · · Score: 2

      Businesses are finally comfortable with upgrading.

      You read that into a 0.87% increase? No, it is just the natural wasteage of worn-out PCs being replaced by new ones, pre-loaded with Win10.

    3. Re:Businesses are finally converting by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I find the outrage on behalf of the poor users hilarious. The actual reality is that people couldn't give a shit what logo comes up when they start their computers. They have never gone out of their way to upgrade, and that won't change in 2020 either. When a computer melts into a small puddle, they'll buy a new one. That one will come with whatever is currently on offer. Nothing more.

      No muggings, no gun, just a hamster plodding along on his wheel.

  8. article image by KiloByte · · Score: 1

    If you look at TFA at Betanews, the image they used is pretty creepy if you think about it...

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  9. Love them or Hate them by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

    I wish I had bought a bunch of their stock at $ 35.00. They have managed to keep things going nicely.

    Just my 2 cents ;)

  10. Can anyone explain why people like Server 12? by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    I just had server 2012 forced on me (again) at work. I wanted to shove hot pokers into my eyes to relieve the pain of the default theme that we get with that terrible excuse for an operating system. Then I changed that and the mouse cursor no longer worked correctly (switching to being the vertical cursor that we usually see in a word processor, all the time). Why on earth is this acceptable? The colors are hideous and the sharp edges make it look like it belongs in Windows 2.0, for display on an EGA monitor. You don't have to remind me so blatantly that I am being forced to use a shitty operating system; please get the hell out of my way and let me do my job instead.

    It does accomplish one thing, though. It makes the Fisher-Price color scheme that was default in XP seem modern and reasonable by comparison. Good job there, I guess.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Can anyone explain why people like Server 12? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2

      Microsoft hasn't put out a good-looking version of Windows since Windows 2000, although 7 was the least worst since then. The sad thing is that with Windows 7 you could still use the Windows 2000 "Classic" skin, but now you can't. Windows is so sophisticated it can't use a desktop theme from 18 years ago.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    2. Re: Can anyone explain why people like Server 12? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Windows 2000 killed desktop linux. Before W2K, desktop Windows was a fragile shell on top of MS-DOS. W2K came on the scene right at the point where the migration to desktop linux otherwise would have been inevitable.

    3. Re:Can anyone explain why people like Server 12? by dddux · · Score: 1

      Editing themes in Windows beyond XP is what irks me a lot, as it is really hard to make a dark theme. Only if you hack uxtheme.dll you can have a dark theme in W7 and W8. Not that it's really important, but damn I like to have a dark theme with white font. Oh well, that's why I've been using Debian for years now, and there's no going back. I do have to use W7 and XP for making music, though. I've been considering Mac for music lately, but I just have so many audio programs that work only on Windows. For as long as it works, I don't mind. But W8 and 10? God forbid. No way I'm going to upgrade for as long as I can install 7 on newer PCs, which btw. still works perfectly no matter what MS propaganda is trying to say.

      --
      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
  11. Sticking with 7 until the end. by xack · · Score: 1

    I even still dual boot XP. Microsoft's "support" for 7 is so pathetic that it dosen't matter when it is "officially unsupported".

  12. Says it all by CptLoRes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft has been pushing Windows 10 hard, very hard indeed as the only option for 3 years now. And even with users having no choice, it just now crossed 36 percent adoption. Meanwhile the 9 years old and deprecated (by MS) Windows 7 still maintains a healthy 42 percent. Pretty much says everything there is to say about Windows 10.

    1. Re:Says it all by greenwow · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has not been pushing 10 hard. If they were, then they would allow XP and Vista users to upgrade. They're so embarrassed by 10 that they're not allowing us to upgrade. My personal desktop at work is an i7 with 64 GB running Vista that is blocked from upgrading to 10.

    2. Re:Says it all by guacamole · · Score: 1

      If they were, then they would allow XP and Vista users to upgrade.

      This would be a waste of support time for Microsoft because most of XP rigs are _really_ old and are not sufficiently fast or lack the RAM to run Windows Vista/7/8/10 comfortably.

      However, if you have a PC that runs Windows Vista comfortably, then it is very likely to do well under Windows 10. There actually used to be a loophole to upgrade Windows Vista PCs to 10 for free a couple of years ago, and it worked well on friend's ancient Core 2 Duo desktop which I upgraded just out of curiosity to see Windows 10 run on 10 year old PC.

      Why hasn't Microsoft pushed hard to upgrade the Vista users to upgrade to 10? It beats me, but my guess is that MS did not bother because Windows Vista was a universally hated OS that most people avoided like plague and corporations wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole. The truth is that Vista wasn't so bad, but at the time of its introduction it required a massive hardware upgrade from Windows XP hardware, while the subsequent Windows versions seemed to have lighter and lighter requirements.

    3. Re:Says it all by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      very hard indeed as the only option for 3 years now.

      Errr what is the alternative again? A 10 year old OS that has ended mainstream support? Or do you expect MS to provide OEMs a copy of Linux?

      MS hasn't pushed anything hard since the initial Windows 7 > 10 upgrade, and that was pretty much all over a few years back. Now they are just sitting back and letting the stragglers catch up as their computer die.

      Pretty much says everything there is to say about Windows 10.

      Nope, it says everything there is to say about OSes in general. People don't care. I like most users have never actually bought a Windows license. There is just no compelling reason to upgrade an OS. All it does is change things and create work.

      There is nothing new about these numbers for Windows 10 compared to any previous version of Windows. Or for that matter Linux.... should I not be using Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS, it's in support for another year?

  13. Exact opposite interpretation by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My interpretation is: Windows 10 is taking an incredibly long time to ramp up in spite of being rammed down everybody's throats as hard as Microsoft can do it by means fair or foul. I conclude that Windows 10 must really suck, that users don't want it, and that they will accept it only by force. I look forward to a new wave of refugees arriving on the Linux beach.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    1. Re:Exact opposite interpretation by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wonder why Mac and Linux tend to stay up to date, while Windows users have to be dragged forward.

      In don't presume to speak to Apple, but there are several reasons for Linux. Linux users pull updates at a time their choosing, it's nice to be in control.

      The update experience is much smoother for Linux, I typically don't even log out. Sometimes Firefox needs to be restarted, which is crappy design, but that's about it. Upgrading libraries while in use is a bedrock part of Linux, it just works except in extremely rare situations like libc's nscd, normally used only in enterprise, which got a disruptive incompatible protocol change more than 10 years back. And 10 years even further back there was the c++ ABI thing. And 5 years before that there was the libc thing. In recent years, roughly zero serious issues. The normal situation is, upgraded services (optionally) restart without issue. So upgrading nearly always just works, even with a massive number of changes. Did I say, I normally don't even log out? Certainly, you normally don't reboot a Linux server on update, that's really key to server uptime.

      Linux users are more clueful than Windows users. Serious security events in Linux that require immediate update are few and far between. Linux users tend to hear about them in the news or other channels and update immediately. No waiting for Patch Tuesday. In short, Linux users tend to know when an update is truly needed. This drastically reduces the amount of updating. Even if you miss out on a major security update it's not that big a deal because even the worst Linux wholes are seldom really bad. If you aren't hosting random unknown users or intentionally trying to run as much malware as you can, you chances of getting owned by even the worst of them are really slim. (I'm not saying don't update, mind you, I'm just saying that even the scary sounding ones mostly don't apply to you.)

      Linux changes are normally not disruptive. For the most part, open source devs are on your side and they put a whole lot of effort into not breaking things that you have come to depend on. This breaks occasionally, like KDE 4 or Gnome 3, but the blowback from those was severe, project devs learned from it, and its highly unlikely to be repeated. Usually what you see is, Linux interfaces including GUIs change slowly and logically, mostly by adding new functionality that users appreciate. Seldom by taking things away, well, except for Gnome, but even there it's kind of a force for good, it moves users to the much better designed KDE and supportable.

      Linux updates are really fast usually don't impact the running system at all. I noticed, a Mac update tends to take an hour or more and the machine shuts itself down for the entire time. And they are pushy: "update now or wait till tonight?". Not as bad as Windows, but bad. The idea of shutting down the workstation to update is just unacceptable to a Linux user, we just don't need to. I mean, you can if you want, but I never do. The technical term is "life in paradise".

      Linux updating is generally so pleasant that everybody wants to do it, especially when a major new release lands. You do it because you want to, not because you have to. You do it when you want to, not when somebody wants you to. That's the way it should be.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re: Exact opposite interpretation by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      True, people who know how to take care of themselves and want to take care of themselves properly, that is why they said no to Windows in the first place. But it does not hurt that updates are smooth, beneficial and unintrusive.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:Exact opposite interpretation by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I wonder why Mac and Linux tend to stay up to date

      It was only this year that I upgraded several of my servers, all on Debian 5.0 "lenny" (2009). I still have a few on Debian 7 "wheezy" (2013), but I'm not really motivated to do anything about it.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    4. Re:Exact opposite interpretation by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It's a silly conclusion. MS rammed initially. got all the people who submitted and then that was it. There's nothing being rammed now and hasn't been for a long time now.

      The reality is that Windows sales have always followed OEM PC sales and very few users ever purchased a license outright. With the PC sales market the way it is, there's no surprise at the figures. You can see the trend lines line up nicely in their 2017 financial report, aside from a blip on release dates of Windows the sales volume follows the PC sales trend very accurately.

      The real conclusion: Users don't give a shit. I am security conscious so I will give a shit in 2020 but I will probably buy a new PC then rather than just upgrade Windows. I also don't give a shit on my Linux box. Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS is still good for another year, clearly all versions of Ubuntu since then must really suck right! Nope, there's no practical difference between it and my 16.04 LTS version, both of them will go through the resulting headache when they need to or when the computer catches fire. Otherwise why change?

      What is the killer feature?

  14. 2/3 of my computers run Windows 7 by the_skywise · · Score: 1

    And that third only runs Windows 10 because it's a Surface Pro and doesn't support 7.
    I have no intention of upgrading the other systems and normally I've almost always upgraded to the next version of Windows within a year or two of release from as far back as Windows 95! (skipping only Vista) That stopped with Windows 8 which I thought would be another skip one like Vista - but with all the spyware/auto-updating and just downright oddness of Windows 10 where I'm a spectator to my own computer -Nah, I'll stick on Windows 7 until I absolutely have to and maybe not even then.

  15. Re:Add one more tenth of a percentage to WIN 7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I upgrade all the Windows 10 computers I can get my hands on to Windows 7.

    The BS that M$ introduced with generation 7 and above CPUs only supporting 10 is making this more difficult though. That was the most desperate tactic I have seen M$ take in trying to force 10 on everyone, even more so than the 'free" upgrade fiasco a few years back.

    I truly despise M$ for the crap they put people through.

  16. Re:I'm waiting on Windows 13 before I upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately Windows 13 will never come. M$'s next move will be Desktop as a Service (DaaS). You'll need to move to MacOS or Linux to avoid that shit-storm.

  17. Re:Windows 8 increasing? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Change is within error range.

  18. Steam survey by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Steam Hardware & Software Survey:


    Windows 10 64 bit .... 57.03%
    Windows 7 64 bit ..... 32.38%
    Windows 8.1 64 bit ... 4.05%
    Windows 7 ............ 1.93%

    all other version of Windows are <1% (8 64-bit, 10 32-bit, 8.1 32-bit, XP)
    all versions of Linux combined are <1%
    all versions of MacOS X combined is 2.93%

    Conclusion: Windows 10 has been a big deal for quite some time, at least in gaming.

    This is all unfortunate news for me because long ago (~5 years) I had decided that Win7 is the last version I will use in my home. So convinced of this I bought a 5-pack of builder licenses to cover any future systems I build. It seemed reasonable because for creative work Linux happens to meet my needs. For gaming I had high hopes that Steam OS or Android TV or something would have taken hold. I'm not really a consoles guy, so I may have to adapt to running Spyware-from-Redmond, or limit myself to 10 year old games.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Steam survey by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some of the *sole* reasons gamers are running Windows 10:

      * Typical MS bullshit about not supporting DirectX 12 on Windows 7, They did the same shit when they tried to force gamers to migrate from XP to Vista via DirectX 10.
      * MS artificially not supporting newer CPUs even though AMD officially has drivers for Threadripper

      Ask gamers to tell you ANY _new_ features that are DirectX 12 only and not available in DirectX 10? You'll get *crickets.* Gamers don't fucking care. They just want to play the latest shiny.

      They obviously don't care about Windows Spyware

      How many of those running Windows 10 were forced upgrades?

      ---
      Only children censor.
      Adults discuss, and even laugh about "taboo" subjects.

    2. Re:Steam survey by luther349 · · Score: 1

      steam is mostly gamer there not going to be running old hardware or a old os.

    3. Re:Steam survey by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Gamers are more likely to want a new PC to play the new hardware-intensive games.

      I have a 1070 Ti in my Win 7 system. It's not top of the line but it's no slouch either. I still boot to Linux for several of my games, but frustratingly I have Divinity Original Sin installed on Linux, but the sequel is Windows only. I've not beaten the first one, so I'm not really too mad yet.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  19. Nice Windows7 Ya got there . . . by hduff · · Score: 2

    Be a shame if something upgraded it . . .

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    1. Re:Nice Windows7 Ya got there . . . by luther349 · · Score: 1

      windows 7 must restart your automatic windows 10 update has completed.

  20. I tire of the stupidity of 10 by AbRASiON · · Score: 2

    The new 're-install over the top of yourself' patching system is terrible. If it fails it can render a machine unable to boot and despite (presumably... .. .. .?) their best efforts, several settings you've configured WILL be reset to default.

    I am a silent PC user, when sound comes out, it's because I want it to. Why do notification audio keep getting turned on?

    There's a heap of odd little things which re-enable themselves when these updates occur, worst thing is you had to google to find out how to disable them months ago and not since, so you've forgotten.

    1. Re:I tire of the stupidity of 10 by luther349 · · Score: 1

      bing someone sent you spam. bing the app we forced you to download is ready to start. bing updates have installed rebooting now. bing a dickhead friend is calling you on skype at 4 am.

  21. Autopatcher has been good for us. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    What do you think of Autopatcher?

  22. Re:After 10++ yrs. of NEW PC sales? by luther349 · · Score: 1

    pc sales have been in the shitter for a wile. untill amd interrupted things people who not buying new intel machines with only minor performance changes.

  23. Re:After 10++ yrs. of NEW PC sales? by luther349 · · Score: 1

    oh and hell yea kde is so rock solid now. now to get all the nerds to try it again after years of it not being so good.

  24. This would be fine... by Stubbyfingers · · Score: 1

    If Windows 10 were a Superior Product to Windows 7.

    All I've found is a lack of compatibility with older non-Microsoft software. A horrid interface designed more for grandma's tablet than a real working PC. And a new "Edgey" browser that comes straight out of 1996. Seriously, we found an old video file that NOTHING would play was compatible with MS Edge...then we found it wasn't an H.264 codec, but an H.262 codec. Modern browsers wouldn't play it. Of course, Edge is NOT compatible with more modern codecs....so it's kinda a wash.

  25. Who in their right mind... by martinfb · · Score: 1

    Who in their right mind would ever want to install software that intrusive and obnoxious?!

    No one. Yet most are forced to.
    Win10 prevents you from accessing significant, important aspects of YOUR PC; and, mines data from you!

    Win7 is still considered a far more desirable platform, irregardless of what is actually installed.
    Your are definitely better off with Linux.
    Yet, MS has an eye on that, too!

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.