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Ask Slashdot: Should Open-Source Developer Teams Hire Professional UI/UX Designers?
OpenSourceAllTheWay writes: There are many fantastic open-source tools out there for everything from scanning documents to making interactive music to creating 3D assets for games. Many of these tools have an Achilles heel though -- while the code quality is great and the tool is fully functional, the user interface (UI) and user experience (UX) are typically significantly inferior to what you get in competing commercial tools. In an nutshell, with open source, the code is great, the tool is free, there is no DRM/activation/telemetry bullshit involved in using the tool, but you very often get a weak UI/UX with the tool that -- unfortunately -- ultimately makes the tool far less of a joy to use daily than should be the case. A prime example would be the FOSS 3D tool Blender, which is great technically, but ultimately flops on its face because of a poorly designed UI that is a decade behind commercial 3D software. So here is the question: should open-source developer teams for larger FOSS projects include a professional UI/UX designer who does the UI for the project? There are many FOSS tools that would greatly benefit from a UI re-designed by a professional UI/UX designer.
Like really, how exactly is this a legit question?
I would assume that such a position is only contractual anyways, so what's the problem?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Developers who write code for free should absolutely hire millennial art school graduates for real money
I'm making this one simple for you. Yes, if you've got the money, hire them. Make sure they agree to the plan to open source their part of the work too, and ahead of time, or at least give you full rights to it so you can if you choose to.
If an OSS project can attract non-paid developers, why can't it attract UI/UX designers?
Or is maybe the problem that OSS developers often just don't recognize that they're no good at UI/UX design?
That is a moronic question, really.
It's open source and free. You seriously expect developers to hire a professional too for his FREE work?
Keep dreaming, the code is open, don't like the UI? Make your own damn UI...
https://news.slashdot.org/story/15/12/20/1713232/improving-ui-and-ux-changing-the-open-source-is-ugly-perception
There a lot of commercial software products where the UI/UX is truely hideous and as the commercial product tries to cram more unnecessary features to encourage more people buy the latest version or signup for a software lease, the UI/UX get steadily worse.
I don't know what it would take, but certainly open source should focus not just on Linux and BSD projects but like with Open Office, and Libre Office they should find ways to make their projects cross over to Windows and Mac OS and even Chrome OS more. If that takes hiring some help maybe that would be beneficial.
Professional UI designers should volunteer their skills like everyone else.
Maybe the question should be: why aren't UI/UX designers donating time like developers are?
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
The answer is "yes". Open-Source developer teams should hire professional UI/UX designers.
Next question, please.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
should have people who are interested in the project wanting to code for free.
They can use their own free time to code for a project they enjoy working on.
That will produce a great quality of code and ensure the project has years of support as OS and hardware advance.
The code can then be given away to the world for free.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
They put "simplicity" over literally everything. By which they do not mean enabling you to require less effort, to achieve more (which would be efficiency, elegance and emergence), but simply requiring less effort, whatever it takes. Even if that makes the UI extremely cumbersome, slow, lacking all but the most basic functions, and impossible to automate. The latter of which being, you know, the whole point of a computer.
And people are now so used to it, they *demand* it! Because they do not know what they are missing!
Hell, most programmers nowadays, who use Windows, MacOS, or Ubuntu, seem to have lost the mindset of automating your work away too! (See Pottering's approach to Unix priciples that existed exactly for this reason.)
The sheer arrogance with which this "KISS" mindset is presented like a philosophy, is only matched by the cluelessness of those who apparenty never thought beyond because they applied "KISS" *to* the principle of efficiency, to get its retarded brother "simplicity".
non STEM liberal arts students, to craft their Common Code, They will also be more than happy to help you understand why people prefer rounded corners more than actual functionality.
Besides, non STEM hires/contractors will work for minimum wage, not including tips. /s
Why don't enough UI/UX designers contribute to Open-Source?
Betteridge
Why don't competent UI/UX designers feel compelled to contribute to open-source projects?
Is it because UI/UX designers are universally a bunch of assholes? (unlikely)
Is it because UI/UX naturally evolves as a secondary concern to software development? (possibly)
Is it because the types that initiate/maintain open-source projects generally consider UI/UX to be of lesser importance? (now we're getting somewhere)
Thats probably why (as a general rule) server side open-source projects are more successful.
What really is the difference between a “coder” and a UI/UC beginner? What about security? Documentation? There are many ways to contribute to OSS and those communities in need should try to get more people to join those communities AS CONTRIBUTORS. Payment is not necessary, or at least should not be.
There are many contributors to open source projects who aren’t writing a single line of code. Maybe Blender needs to work on attracting non-programmers to their community to improve their product.
TL;DR: Muscle Memory.
Yes. Then FIRE THEM. And even better, that solves the GUI problem that every-version-has-a-change-somehow. How? Because the "helper" still wants to help so they rearrange the GUI to look/be "better" for next time. And then they do it again. And AGAIN.
You change it when you NEED to change it, not because it's Tuesday and this field suddenly needs to be over there.
It's one thing if you get it wrong and everyone (EVERYONE) complains, it's another if it's a major upgrade with new fields and options. It just sucks though when someone does a GUI.randomize() just because they can.
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
Nope
I think it would be better if they would ask for volunteers.
I would like a UI fix for Metapad text editor.
In return, I could help write the documentation.
I need a text editor that is very quick to load. Metapad is wonderful that way. But when doing search and replace, it brings up a new window that requires a mouse click. It should just show the number of replacements.
I dunno about paid, but I recall the gimpshop guy was working for free yet wasn't exactly celebrated. Even though it was a very good idea.
How is this a question ?
I'll make it even simpler (and actually correct):
No.
Send all UX designers back to the interior design firms they escaped from, so they can put curtain-pulls for the mentally deficient in the apartments of the twitch y flamous.
Make software functional, not "pretty." That's what software does. Functions. Effort spent on pretty is not only usually wasted effort, it also often interferes with the software's efficiency in interacting with the user.
Well, which is it? Person, or color?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Oh, and it will. Believe me. Who's gonna pay for it? That's right. MEXICO is going to pay for it.
I "know* that I suck at UI/UX. I've been programming for 20 years, and actively studying programming the whole time, so I can generally add a feature or option I want very quickly - sometimes in a matter of minutes. The UI for the new option will be another checkbox or whatever. I'm not improving the UI overall, and hopefully not making it significantly worse.
So I spent 30 minutes and got the feature, fix, or option that I need. I suck at UI, but I don't suck badly enough that I then hire a *competent* professional to make the one part of the UX better for me. It does what I need it to do, the value prop isn't there for me to spend $10,000 getting the UI improved.
There is something else going on. My last job was working full time on an open source project. I sent most of my work upstream. Our organization also had some graphics arts and UI types that made it look pretty after I was done. To my knowledge, it never occurred to them to contribute their work back to the project. Contributing to open source just isn't something they think about. Programmers know about open source. In college and early in our careers we're told that contributing to open source can be a resume builder. Are UI folks told that? Is there an awareness of open source?
Muslim, gay, Mexican, trans, or a woman. If they are pasty white males then read the new Code of Conduct and gtfo. You're not welcome or wanted.
Unfortunately there are many, many, MANY bad UI/UX designers in the world. Everyone has an opinion of what good UI/UX design is. Very few have the experience or talent to actually do it well.
Yes, a good UI/UX would vastly improve many open source tools. But UI/UX designers don't write code and honestly most of them aren't worth the opinion they carry into a project. So unless the 'developer' already has great UI/UX skills, any attempt 'tack it on' at the direction of a designer is bound to fail in a tool that is even more horrible to use.
UI/UX designers are only held in check by the continual evaluation, criticism, feedback and product testing that only big paying customers can afford. It's expensive. Just look at MicroSoft and how often they still fail at UI/UX design. Or Chrome, or Firefox or countless other large commercial software tools.
Simple answer.
to kill millennial artfag hipsters.
Bonus if also fluent in: C/C++, TCP/IP and embedded design
I find it very odd that Blender is the example given. Among free software, it's huge both in terms of functionality and user base (https://www.blender.org/about/website/statistics/), closer to Linux than some project on GitHub abandoned years ago when the sole developer got bored of it. It's absolutely usable and pretty (possibly on account of the fact that it's used to make pretty pictures). Now I'm no artist and I mostly played around with the modeling and the game engine, so I can believe that it falls short in some ways when compared to commercial packages like Maya and 3dMax. A big UX hurdle I often heard about it is that its interface is very different from those commercial packages, but then, that's a zero sum game unless someone makes a standard and at least some of the packages abide by it.
Here's a good example of a UX change screwing things up.
Google News used to offer a control in settings where you could disable various sections you weren't interested in; as a tech person, perhaps you're not interested in sports, for instance. Well, you could turn that/those section(s) off, saving the bandwidth wasted by them shoving something in your face you have zero interest in, and saving you scrolling time and mild annoyance. It was entirely a good thing.
Comes the "new" Google news, the UI is redesigned, and... yep. Capability is gone. Simplified to the lowest common denominator into a less functional version of itself. But hey, they're quite proud of the new "look."
The best thing you can do with a UX designer is take them out and leave them in a deep forest with a book of fabric samples, but without a compass. They'll starve. :)
The question should rather be: how UX/UI designers are different from software engineers, if the former do not contribute to free software like the later?
There are tons of great people working and focusing on the UI for blender and have been for years.
https://code.blender.org/2018/04/tools-toolbar-and-tool-widgets/
This argument has been going on and on since blender first hit the scene. Just do a google search for blender ui sucks and enjoy some great conversations.
Most people that complain about blender's UI compare it to other tools that don't do half as much as blender, they think it should be easy to use for someone that hasn't spent any time working with it, and or they think it should work exactly like tool X Y or Z.
Blender is and always has been a tool that focus's on people that use the tool. It tries to provide a consistent interface that helps you get things done quickly and efficiently. If you want it to work like 3dstudio max or whatever you can do that too you just need to invest some time in tweaking it to work the way you want it to.
Kent Mein
>> There are many FOSS tools that would greatly benefit from a UI re-designed by a professional UI/UX designer.
Then go for it. There are many projects waiting for you to pitch in. In fact, you could fork these projects and hire your own team of developers to stitch in your sparkly do-dads if you thought there was a great commercial market for supporting a better looking version of the open source thing at which you turn up your nose.
They are not real engineers of any sort, and actually the source of many of the problems we see in software today. UI designers demand change for changes sake rather than any sort of reasonable cause. You can't consult an efficiency expert and NOT expect them to recommend change just to justify their own existence. Why can't the UI default be a simple clean design and allow customization by the user, or the user base in general. A library of skins and such applied by end users based on their preference, rather than some group that's very existence is mandated by them finding something, anything to change...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
You shouldn't NEED them doing GUI apps: FUNCTION should help DETERMINE form & then stick to "std. practices" & some pretty? Either you have that, OR you don't, "inside".
* Yes, I've known some devs who DIDN'T - Case in point e.g.: 1 guy is a russian jew pal of mine - he can design an algorithm/engine REAL "A1" but when it comes to doing an interface that's pretty for it? "Fuggit 'bout it" - it's not in him!
(Nothing against him as he is a HELL of a GOOD coder & analyst, for sure, but the guy LITERALLY cannot DRESS HIMSELF too (& STILL has a book on that of mine he borrowed a decade++ ago & said he'd give back & hasn't (I'd say he STOLE it but he was my pal - consider it a gift))).
APK
P.S.=> Guys who can't handle building a nice interface should stick to character mode/tty term/DOS window/console mode apps OR backend systems work - part of your product IS the "aesthetic value" &/or "delivery" too (smaller part but important imo)... apk
I'm amazed at the level of retarded UIs we have seen from UI people getting involved in software development in general. I can write my own shitty UI than you very much.
In commercial software we generally have managers barking orders. They know hard to use will cost them money in support volume down the road and enforce necessary discipline up front to prevent it.
In open source everyone is scratching itches to varying degrees.
Some open source people/projects are way better than others but generally vs commercial software usability across the board (not simply UX/UI) is weak. Documentation, compatibility, interoperability and general organization fall far short of commercial offerings.
A big problem with user interface work beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People think things look nice and usable.. others look at the exact same thing and draw utterly totally completely contradictory conclusions. My personal opinion OSS projects are best working out abstractions for user interface to make it easy for the software to be customized/themed.
"while the code quality is great and the tool is fully functional"
We are not living in the same reality...
Well, a person would have grasped the humor... so... you're telling me... color?
Which color?
That is all.
When I volunteer my time to any project, I have 1 rule. Everyone either gets paid
or
everyone works for free and "donations" go for infrastructure only, not pizza or beer.
The second that 1 person on the team gets paid (even cab fair), I'm out.
This is why I can't volunteer for things like the Olympics. Why is someone else being paid when I'm not? Forgetaboutit.
Well, sure, I could have said that, but inasmuch as I do know what they do (which is ruin things for everyone with their anal-retentive fixation on change and simplicity at the expense of everything else), I didn't feel any need to say otherwise.
Cheers. :)
How does one post a new comment, without replying to an old comment?
It's not that most software writers can't write something that is friendly, its that they don't want to because they don't think it is necessary.
If it works and gets the job done, then so what if it is complicated -- that will weed out the dummies and an I won't waste as much time responding to lame questions.
I've seen some open SW groups that are proud of how difficult their project is to use. And they don't want to change anything, -- heaven forbid, because it might break compatibility with 20 year old server installations.
I've seen more than one geek who didn't like the idea of making it easier to use for others -- there should be a learning curve that keeps out the dummies. Look what happened when they'd let anyone write code (especially web/net code) in the decade leading up to the 1st great computer-based tech crash in the 1990's.
Now this lethargy is spreading to corporation as they rearrange their
business model to get paid for doing alot less (or nothing). Adobe is "rolling in the bucks" now that they don't have to actually come up with new or better products/features in order to get customers to buy the next version. Now they just have to pay to keep access to their old programs.
Look a 'Post' button, much scrolling upwards after you have finished reading all the comments from the top, with much clicking gets you all the way to the bottom. Great job on reducing discoverability (sic), unnecessary clicks/mousing (sic) and complexity (why duplicate functionality by adding a button at both ends)...
UX designers already ruined Google Maps , so stay away from Blender. Blender is fine as it is, if you don't know how to use it then that's a problem with you not blender
Well, it's the TRUTH/FACT, he is & we were friends during our CS degreework I completed (he didn't) & then we went to work for the same place back in 1994 contracting to Goulds Pumps. He's good, post-grad level smarts no questions asked as his late Dad was a programmer. IIRC he's moved onto "architect" level roles (designing systems, overall architecture & then the "guts engines" too w/ others he hires who are CONCENTRATED there & good (usually Russians, lol - he gets them cheap & told me one day "I'm a good crook" & he is, but he does what's legal until he can't charge that high anymore (profits margins = big on payroll alone type stuff). We were pals for decades after that. He has a family now so rare contact last 10 yrs. now etc. - et al, that's life.
* Yea, he's a jew - lol, he even STOLE MY BOOK - joke but it is FACT!
I could care less: I didn't need it, never did & it wasn't mine, I didn't buy it: A roomie of mine left it ages ago & I know how to dress myself WELL!
(Come on - it's easy - you have blond or 'summer' looks? Wear dark. You are darker complected etc.?? Wear white OR bright colors - either 'accentuates' you. No stripes + plaid @ once (top/bottom OR shirt to tie etc.))
Lol - I mean, come on - should come natural but yet? It doesn't to many - not how their brains are structured I guess. Same in coding, I've literally SEEN & MET folks like that. I don't get it but you can't teach a blind man to see blue.
APK
P.S.=> Anyhow, what I said is truth & I don't think, speaking as someone programming GUI programs since 1991 & professionally since 1994, that "interface architects" are needed - FUNCTION should determine FORM (especially if/when you know which controls & layout BEST SUIT a particular type of programmatic work))... apk
Take the so-called professional UI/UX designers out behind the barn (or to the parking lot) and shoot the lot of them! They are absolutely useless for anything and the world would be a much better and usable place without them in it.
Good advice. Now for a trip down memory lane Google, "KDE, GNOME, Spatial Browser, debate, UI"*. You'll get an eyeful of why FOSS isn't amicable to UX/UI. I doubt little has changed.
*Expand a little to account for, "controls for everything" and "absolutely needed".
BTW UX vs UI: different things.
https://www.ready4s.com/blog/d...
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
It isn't hard for the programmers who write this stuff to eat their own dogfood (use their own software just once) and notice how fucking obtuse, buggy and clunky the UI is. Gnome's System Monitor, which so many Linux desktop distros use as their process monitor, is god-awful, even with so many eyes on it every day. It doesn't take a UX designer to fix it, it just takes a programmer who is familiar enough with the source code.
Another example: Gnome Maps has bugs all over the UI (not bugs at lower layers, because it doesn't crash) but you can left click / right click / menu selection your way into trouble very quickly and easily.
People who write open source software are doing so out of their free time, and I bet they get to a certain point where the functionality is all there, and they get bored with testing and bugfixing the useability aspects.
Writing a good UI is more about really caring than design problems. It takes a lot of time that nobody is paying for and it's not fun. That is why the UX with open source is mediocre. Any programmer can look at a commercial product's UI and try to get parity with what they're writing, but they don't, and that's perfectly understandable.
So in conclusion, I'd say in my professional opinion, that we just need a company with deep pockets to sponsor extant open source programmers to put the finishing touches on their work. It's something they're far better suited to get done than a UX designer.
Imagine what wonders a UI/UX Designer can do to vim!
Yeah, that's what I thought. Stay away UI/UX Designers
Maybe they should, but they should definitely pay for grooming tutors and become more accustomed to applying deodorant.
It has a purpose.
Yes from start its look like bad, if you had enough patience (which you will need a patience) blender has one of the best UI ever (for a 3d modelling software).
This isn't apple sh*t. It primary purpose a fast, capable 3d modelling software. When you getting to use it. You will understand how inferior others interface.
You are comparing shell with windows GUI.
Which better for administering a server ?
[My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]
When I taught at a digital design school I was always surprised that the students were not into the open source mindset at all.
There is a large community of open source theme designers, like for Wordpress. But a website and, for example, a UX for smart home interface are two different things.
That said, I've also noticed how a lot of developers have an "I understand HTML so I can design well enough" mentality, which drives designers away. An example is the Domoticz project, an open source smart home home controller. It works great, but the interface is holding it back. Often the developers like designing the interface too much to let it go, even though they're not good at it.
UX designers should contribute to projects they use or find important and companies should contribute assets to lift all the boats? Why is SVG so different from Java in this regard?
I don't know much about blender, but i think you assume wrongly, that you know what user-friendly means.
It doesn't mean the same for everybody. For me vim is the most user-friendly editor out there.
Well it surely isn't the kind of UI you learn as a UI-Designer. But while what is seen as good UI-design changes every few year, the design of vim is used since
25 years (nearly 50 if you count vi in). It is still used by many people and why? It is fast to use. That's what a lot of open-source is about. It is designed by engineers for engineers. The most important factor is often, that you can save as much time as possible when you use it 8 hours a day. Yeah you may have to learn all the shortcuts for 3 Months, still worth it. A good command-line integration is often more important than to have a GUI at all (I know not for Blender).
In the other hand the design of a commercial tool often has the goal, to be easy fro beginners. Because they got stuck with your tool if they learn their craft with your tool.
In the end it is a question of who your target users are. My parents will never write their mails in vim, no matter how big of a fan I am.
So if you know what the goal of a design is and you know all the quirks and shortcut and still think it could be decades better, go for it. Improve it
make a PR. Nobody will stop you as long as you improve the design in the direction the team want to go, nobody will stop you. They will probably even thank you (unlikely they are devs and can't really thank a designer, that's against their nature). I personally would love it if somebody put some work into the UI
But don't look at a tool for an hour and judge it by your default-design book. You know most of the open-source developers can more or less read at least a little bit...
This is not how thing should be done in the software world.
If something can be done only for money, not for fun, it means that this is dull, boring job and no one gets fun from it.
Really., UI programming using current UI tools is boring and dissatisfying job. So no good developer would like to do it, and will try to shift burden to the juniors.
But computers are there to automate dull and boring things. What we need it is UI langiage (may be as set of other language functions/operators), which would let us think about UI in appropriate terms. So developers would feel writing of UI as self-expression, not a dull and boring thing.
Donald Knuth once wrote TeX and give millions of scientists all over the world right language to think about printed representation of their work.
What we need is similar set of abstractions for UI.
You need to seriously consider the whole app/experience and carefully decide which and how to implement features. Adding a feature then adding the UX is a recipe for crappy software.
And another thing... Blender has a GREAT ui! Its actually better than most commercial software and thats the main reason it's being used for commercial work.
Blender ist a fulll-blown professional 3D kit. Those are hard to use. They are operating systems by themselves and people good in then usually have years of experience and can't operate any other kit beyond basic functionality.
That being said, blender has some quirks in the details. But on the plus side blender has a huge community, many on the design side of things and quite a few 3D UX industry professionals who maintain laundry lists of blender shortcomings and push for changes in that area. So hiring isn't really necessary for the blender camp. They are working on things and recent major updates have always come with ux overhauls.
On the other side blender has stuff that appears to be quirky but actually is absolute genius when it comes to UI stuff. Window and workplace management in blender is unmatched by any other piece of software I've come across. So what may appear as bad ux may just be extremely innovative.
That aside, yes, FOSS crews shouldn't forget ux. But I don't think there is need to hire someone. There are enough ux experts out there that are perfectly willing to help out a FOSS crew if they are willing to listen.
My 2 eurocents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Having used 3d studio max, Maya and others, blender is on par with everything else. There's always a learning curve
The FOSS world needs better tools to provide a better UI/UX.
Once again, the cathedral vs the bazaar controversy is rearing its head. Let market forces decide where the buying public wants to drop its hard earned money for an enhanced user friendly, user experience.
In the mean time, let the FOSS world happily enjoy its FOSS software, which becomes better and better as more volunteers contribute their ideas and talents. The professional UI/UX designers, to whom the author refers, should contribute to FOSS projects pro bono.
The author's thinking in this article reflects the logic, that resulted in the SystemD fiasco. If enough volunteers were contributing to the GNU project, someone would eventually have invented a simpler and more elegant replacement for the System V init system.
Provide a useful set of tools, like qt and gtk, and eventually someone will build a better UI/UX for a FOSS product like a window manager.
If the author wants all free software to be designed like Grand Theft Auto, or Call of Duty, then that is an unrealistic goal. Tastes change over time, and market forces decide which tastes appeal the most to the buying public from one year to the next, or from one decade to the next.
Hardware improves, and FOSS software has to keep pace with the latest hardware. It takes time for FOSS software to adapt to new hardware interfaces. The author needs to exercise patience, while new interfaces adapt to the latest hardware.
At one time, all we had was punched cards, punched tape, and ttys. Then came along DOS and CP/M. We're in a better world, now.
But wait a minute. What the FOSS world really needs, more than anything else, is a not-for-profit github to serve the FOSS community. The FOSS world needs to get back on track.
Many projects are in dire need of a good user interface. However, there are two kinds of UI designers:
1. people from the field of human interface design. Responsible for things like Apple's Human Interface Guidelines book which set the rules for the original Mac OS interface. This group tries to optimize the user experience via solid design principles and user testing.
2. Graphic designers with delusions of grandeur. These have no idea of what constitutes a good interface, and are responsible for idiocy like the flat UI and over-the-top skeuomorphism. Liable to move things around for no good reason, and very susceptible to fads.
These days you're more likely to find #2 than #1.
To get this right out of the way: I have no problem what-so-ever donating FOSS time for ux. I'm in the lucky position to be both usefully good at programming and UI/UX design, with arts and design diplomas and certs to emphasize that.
The big problem is that good UX is hard. Like 'finding that right asynchronous model' hard or 'finding that obscure USB bug' hard. Plus, people doing UX for free want to do UX well - they have to compromise enough on their day jobs (sounds familiar doesn't it?) - rarely get appreciation for how long it takes and how hard it is. Besides, it's usually functionality that's lacking.
Point in case: are the leaving shortcuts for cropping in Gimp a UX problem or a programming problem? Not sure, you tell me. It's only now starting to bug me so much in going to file a feature request this week.
There are enough perfectly good UX people out there. Just don't think that someone who takes pride in his UX work can deliver on the drop of a hat. UX has to be a key concern, just like supporting API XYZ or something. With the whole team. Do that and your UX will be just fine. KDE seems to have UX pretty nearly covered, as does elementary os and quite a few other GUI related projects.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
"Clean, consistent and intuitive." What happened to that mantra? Now it "Cool, minimalistic and obfuscated." I liked the old way better.
Are the OSS tools/programs really that horrible in UI/UX design? Sure, some are, but is, given the example, Blender one of those?
Blender is different and perhaps that is why you think the UI/UX design is bad, somebody who used Blender his whole life and would go on to use one of the more know commercial offerings would think the same because he's used to how Blender works.
For example, I think 'vi' has great UI/UX, there are probably a lot of people who disagree (and think emacs is the pinacle of UX), but my brian is wired to it and it feels good to use.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
I'm curious, what is wrong with Blender's UI?
And they should stop redesigning it every goddamn iteration.
I tend to rant.
As long as the UI remains consistent once the revision has been made, and doesn't keep changing for the sake of change and pulling the rug out from users who have become accustomed to the redesign.
Has anyone actually asked for free consultation with a UX designer? They may just need to know how/when to get involved. In my experience though, developers always know exactly what the user should be doing, so therefore there is no need for a designer ;)
...idiots. Just look at Google's 'Material Design', what a pile of complete and utter shite it is, blindly following the 'flat' 'modern' bollocks, just BECAUSE. None of these idiots have a clue WHY they have designed such and such an element in the way they have.
Furthermore, has ANYBODY in the past ten years designed any new interface ELEMENTS, rather than claiming to be a 'user interface DESIGNER' without actually DESIGNING anything new? Look at Windows 10 - what a pile of shite that is, the worst interface ever, in so many parts of it. Hidden close window buttons, buttons that look like text, so you have to mouse over every bit of text in a window before you can work out what is and isn't a button?
Should professional UI/UX designers hire Open-Source developer teams?
Or should Open-Source UI/UX designers hire professional developer teams?
And last but not least, should professional developer teams hire Open-Source UI/UX designers?
Me, personally, I think there should be many fantastic Open-Source UI/UX designers out there.
What I don't get is why not many more of them team up with the Open-Source developer teams.
Are they unable to integrate themselves into those teams?
Is the spirit within those teams somewhat hostile against them?
Or are good UI/UX designers anti-Open-Source and prefer Closed-Source anyway?
Points to ponder...
Please, dear God, no! Open source UIs aren't always the best to begin with. Please don't hire those sort of people to make the UIs even worse.
Now I remember why I stopped reading this website years. So much inane garbage like this "news"...
G'bye fer good this time! Lol...
As a developer and doing my own UI/UX I can say I can't really even think about the UI/UX much until I've developed a lot of the final product. Until then, fields and control come and go move from one screen to another, maybe completely change what sort of purpose it has. Developing is not a set in stone thing, and on independent projects like these where you may be pushing the envelope in features where there may not be a UI/UX paradigm for it.
In the design phase for these projects, it is a great benefit if whoever does the UI/UX design know the the environment in and out and if it is a specific subject - should know that pretty well too, you can't just plop down and work up some awesome Blender interface unless you have really used Blender extensively and know what would actually make an awesome interface for someone working with Blender.
Ao as most of these people say, Yes it's an awesome thing, no its not cost effective to pay people on an rarely unpaid open source project, and mostly if you want a great UI/UX you really need to be a lasting member of a project where you can develop the user aspects along with side the evolving technical aspects.
And if you were able to make some awesome easy-to-use advanced interface for blender, you will be well recognized.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
Blender has a much better UI than any commercial tool doing the same thing. Blender's failing is actually on the programming side: boolean geometry operations are terrible, measurement is terrible, and generally it is terrible for technical CAD of any sort. UI-wise though, Blender is the only FOSS tool that is actually better than commercial ones.
Why should they, it's obvious Microsoft doesn't.
Stop complaining that the free food you get at the local soup kitchen isn't as good as the fancy restaurant on the other side of town. Stop demanding that the software you pay ZERO for has all the cool UI/UX features (and documentation, and bug fixes, and ...) as the commercial product that people are paying good money for.
Should I buy a boat?
Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
"Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
Just take a picture of all your UI elements with the camera out of focus and merge all the colors into almost the same shade of blue-ish gray and POOF instant UX "enhanced" looking application!
Blender's UI is excellent for experienced Blender users who have a lot to get done, because the people who designed it ARE THE USERS.
Blender is hard to learn because there are a million options, and they require you to understand the data model.
Which is necessary if you're actually going to have the power and speed once you do learn it.
Turn your typical UI/UX designer loose on Blender, and you'll have something you can use when you first walk up to it, learn most of in a day... and curse for the rest of your life, because you won't be able to do the stuff you really need to do with the minimum of actual actions on your part.
> Ask Slashdot: Should Open-Source Developer Teams Hire Professional UI/UX Designers
Yes. Next question.
GIMP will never gain traction unless someone that URL parked Gimpshop gets off their ass and gives the Gimpshop original programmer/modifier it back. So GIMP needs to get a better UI to be on the level with Photoshop. That's a key example. There's numerous other open-source applications that have TERRIBLE TERRIBLE UI/usability issues because they have to try to reinvent the wheel when a AAA (ugh) developer like Adobe/Microsoft/etc. have a product out there on Windows that does the experience better.
I don't know if "hiring" UI/UX people will necessarily help, but getting them interested in these products with "we'll listen to you and try to design it to make it worth using for you" would be a good first-step.
It's nobody's fault, but FOSS projects are *never* likely to have user experience anywhere near that of commercial projects, ISTM:
- They're overwhelmingly are run by developers - developers who have limited time, and already have features/issues coming out of their ears.
- The products were originally made to let technologically competent people get things done, or were a developer's idea of "ok for normal people"
So there is zero chance of a UX effort large enough to make them work for less-than-competent people - that'd involve talking to ordinary people about things they might want, about things they understand and don't understand, and then watching them play with your prototypes or products or similar software, talking aloud their thoughts as they try (and usually fail) to do stuff, their spoken thoughts giving you all kinds of fantastic insights into issues your functionality and interface would need to handle. Which is how half-decent mass-market UX typically starts in the commercial world.
And even if just "tweaking a UI" to make it better, to go some way to help the less competent, you still have to try to convince some developers (short of time, unpaid, drowning in features/issues, opinionated on design issues themselves) both that the change would be better, and that such a change is as important as other features/issues(/crashes) they might work on instead. You can probably guess what the odds of success are. And even then, that's only if the developers are among the 50% who understand in the first place - the other 50% (see many other commenters on here) are of the opinion that UX=UI, or UX is easy, or just read a book, or UX people just move things around stupidly, or UX people are all useless big heads...
"classic Windows hosts trick to block the Coinhive or Crypto-Loot domains" - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/a-new-player-joins-coinhive-on-the-browser-cryptojacking-scene/ - BLEEPING COMPUTER
ZD NET http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-use-a-hosts-file-to-improve-your-internet-experience/ "Hosts files really shine by letting you block ads, spyware sites, malware sites, & tracking sites"
SANS ("A related approach to the DNS issue is to create a hosts file on each system that sends requests for spyware to some place else" hosts by myself & RAMU right @ START of "malware explosion" mid 2005 on) https://isc.sans.edu/forums/di...
Aryeh Goretsky/ESET/NOD32: hosts = good security https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7442373&cid=49747129/
Oliver Day (SYMANTEC/SECURITYFOCUS) http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491/
Spybot S&D uses hosts.
APK
P.S.=> Malwarebytes' hpHosts hosts & RECOMMENDS my program forum.hosts-file.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4290
"It's working: Neville... it's working!" See subject & results from the past month https://it.slashdot.org/commen... https://it.slashdot.org/commen... & https://it.slashdot.org/commen... + https://it.slashdot.org/commen... + https://it.slashdot.org/commen... https://it.slashdot.org/commen... that's only recently while I've been on Linux (few months now only) & 100's of times vs. MANY other botnets/malwares etc. in the past circa 2006-early 2018 while I was on Windows: CONCRETE VISIBLE UNDENIABLE REALITY (see those links as proof).
P.S.=> ... & that's ONLY what /. reported on (there are FAR more)... apk
The routinely bad UI designs to be found in FOSS are a feature, not a bug!
Once you recast the problem, the rest is easy. Just decide that the problem is not a problem.
'Professional' UX/UI designers are the same people that gave us the Windows 8 and Windows 10 abominations, and the confusing constant flux of Android and iOS! You can stuff that up your jumper!
We already have good UI designs from the past - Just copy them!!!
The most important thing in a UI is CONSISTENCY.
Getting someone to design a new one is the exact opposite of this!
If you have to expend time to learn a new interface every time then it's already failed - This is why I hated Vista, 7, 8 and 10 and KDE 4 and 5 and Gnome 3 and every new revision of iOS and Android and Office and I could go on...
It's like the xkcd comic on standards and why trying to make a new standard to unify old standards is a trap - You just end up with another competing standard!
I agree. That is the point of efficiency/elegance/emergence too, though.
KISS differs, by removing the requirement of it actually being powerful for its complexity too. :) So a featureless colorless sphere (iPhone 100? ;) is the perfect KISS UI, as its complexity is zero. Never mind that it doesn't do anything anymore.
The concept that I called elegance, efficiency and emergence (because I don't know which word to pick) cannot be used incorrectly, to result in something like that, nor something like your examples of the other extreme. They always mean that sweet spot of getting the most for your money, whichever money that might be.
They only can be misunderstood. E.g. by ignoring that not only the code or resource usage should be at the sweet spot, but the effort to create it, should too. (Which is why I like well-done scripting languages. They definitely beat C/C++ in efficiency, for your daily little automation tasks, that glue the programs together.)
No, I like SHOOTING YOU DOWN too much (as "your kind" DESERVES it SIMON WeezilThal) like here https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & to quote "I am Legend"?
"I'm not leavin': This is ground zero. This is MY site! I'm not gonna let this happen. I can still fix this..." Dr. Robert Neville I am LEGEND...
* Get it? Good...
APK
P.S.=> You FAIL/LOSE as always vs. me (it's ALL that "your kind" KNOWS how to do anyhow, so @ least YOU're USED TO IT, lol)... apk
I've heard this same bullshit for 30 years now and it all boils down to one simple statement: "I can't easily automate it." You're lazy. You want the pay involved in doing tedium but don't actually want to do anything tedious. How else would you have time to post on stackexchange, slashdot, and 4chan?
Bullpussy. I make them every day. I don't make user "experiences" though. I make Human-Machine Interfaces. My factory workers don't need custom skins and colors and advertisement pipelines. They need switches, gauges, and graphs. My OS doesn't need that "experience" shit either. It needs switches, gauges, and graphs but you won't find one that simple. For instance, why is it that in no Windows version I have ever used, and I started with Windows 2.0, can you not easily get your IP address? Why isn't it in the tooltip you get when you hover over the connection icon in the task tray? Why isn't it a live tile I can place on that atrocious new Start menu? M$ has time to make tiles to spam me adverts and buy Candy Crush, but not a single system tile. No memory usage, cpu temperatures, IP address, nothing. It's garbage.
somebody who used Blender his whole life and would go on to use one of the more know commercial offerings would think the same because he's used to how Blender works.
Likewise, a GIMP user like me would have some relearning to do if dropped in front of a copy of Adobe Photoshop.
But I think what other people are trying to say is that applications for macOS ought to work like the applications included with macOS and other applications published by the publisher of macOS. Likewise, applications for Windows ought to work like the applications included with Windows and other applications published by the publisher of Windows. Things like Blender work like neither.
Blender is meant to be a professional tool, and for that it's UI is great.
Learning curve is a bit steep, it is different from other 3D modellers etc.
But once you have mastered it is really good.
Perhaps if said open source software *had* some of that "telemetry bullshit" they'd figure out that people are wasting a lot of time trying to understand their shitty UI. That's what "telemetry bullshit" is for.
We all know where you're pointing your finger at Microsoft with that statement. While I know any argument in defense of them won't get anywhere on Slashdot, they genuinely DON'T care about your private data - monetizing *that* is Google's (and Facebook's) business. The telemetry is there to show them how people are using the software and diagnose problems they encounter. Period.
But hey, let's hear from the haters now. How many replies before "paid schill" shows up?