Slashdot Mirror
SQLite Adopts 'Monastic' Code of Conduct (sqlite.org)
Having been encouraged by clients to adopt a written code of conduct, the SQLite developers elected to govern their interactions with each other, with their clients, and with the larger SQLite user community in accordance with the "instruments of good works" from chapter 4 of The Rule of St. Benedict. This code of conduct has proven its mettle in thousands of diverse communities for over 1,500 years, and has served as a baseline for many civil law codes since the time of Charlemagne.
Not everyone has found SQLite's attempt informative or funny (though many did). A developer wrote, for instance, "So is the SQLite CoC thing a joke or not? If it's not a joke, f*ck this. If it is a joke, that's even worse. Your CoC should be taken seriously." A security researcher, chimed in, "This sort of stunt will make actual code of conduct discussions harder. It's not funny, helpful, or wise."
If you do not know how to act like a responsible adult, perhaps you should try harder. It is your choice, but do not expect others to play along with your childish and rogue behavior. Correct the behavior or get locked out. But no one needs a silly code of conduct - this is like mission statements of the 80s and 90s. Largely forgotten and rarely achieved.
Good job! Don't let the SJW's push you around.
People are objecting, but is it a bad code of conduct? I can't find the text, but being monastic I'm guessing it values service to the community and forbids sexual harassment.
Seems like it might be a good choice for a CoC.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
But I'm a Perl programmer. That's one of our virtues!
that tells you more about them than about the joke. Congrats to SQLite. That's one project that "gets it". Anyone who thinks that "this sort of stunt will make actual code of conduct discussions harder" hasn't even got the message (which coincidentally is one data point in favor of using more direct language...)
So is the SQLite CoC thing a joke or not? If it's not a joke, f*ck this. If it is a joke, that's even worse.
Here's the type of person that is likely to go out of their way to take umbrage over something relatively minor. The kind of person who's happy to shove a CoC down your throat as long its theirs, but will scream about having to follow some other set of rules that they don't like.
Wikipedia says about Chapter 4 "These are essentially the duties of every Christian and are mainly Scriptural either in letter or in spirit." This nicely points out that a CoC has nothing to do with the actual work being done and is all about some people wanting to control the forms of interaction allowed, impose the duty to follow some meaningless rituals, universally to the detriment of the project.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
https://twitter.com/brionv/sta...
SJWs cannot abide mockery because it is a threat to their own self anointed moral authority.
SJWs are religious. Marxism is their religion, and intersectionality their tenets of faith. They believe in righteousness, sin, and punishment of unbelievers and transgressors (anyone who criticises any aspect of SJW beliefs, including their own). It goes without saying that the beliefs and their behaviour are thoroughly toxic nonsense, which is what makes them so dangerous. So given the choice between an SJW CoC and this set of fairly sensible (albeit religious) rules about living life as a good thoughtful and compassionate person, I think I'd rather be judged by the Benedictines than blue-haired SJW harridans and their enablers. At least the Benedictines allow for the forgiveness of sins and loving their enemies. SJWs don't believe in that sort of compassion, preferring to act like a pack of hyenas around anyone who shows weakness, failing Rule 64 (Hate no one) and a good number of the other rules as well!
> when you break down all CoC documents, they are asking others to be kind and do the morally correct thing.
LOL
The entire point of these SJW attacks on open source projects is to use weaponized CoCs to hijack the project and kick and publicly humiliate their ideological enemies.
node.js
Drupal
Opal
FreeBSD
Linux
All these above projects have been attacked and infiltrated by SJW mobs using weaponized CoCs to attack innocent project members for nothing more than wrongthink.
In one form or another each of these projects had weaponized CoCs rammed down the community's throats where the sickening Progressive Stack was enshrined as a fundamental precept of the project. In other words, establishing that the project is comprised of oppressors and victims and the CoC only applies to oppressors - in other words white, male, and or conservative. Toxic behavior by anyone in a 'protected class' aka 'victim class' is ignored or even encouraged.
It took only TWO DAYS for the attacks on innocent Linux developers from the time the toxic CoC was forced on the community.
Its 2018, it is time to stop these silly and dangerous claims about CoCs being these innocent little documents that 'just tell people to be nice to each other'.
When I think of monks, I think about
Vows of Chastity
Vows of Silence
Bread Making
Beer Brewing
Good job for SQLite! I like 19 (Console the sorrowing) the most. I also want to start a new project called "Sorrowing: The Console". It'd be like bash, but all the messages would be drenched in existential dread.
If your work is shit, you'll be treated like shit, if your work is awesome, you'll be treated awesome. If you act like a libtard, you'll be handed a foam helmet and a bib, and if you act like a republican, we'll deny you every possibly benefit, so welcome to the real world :)
It isn't "worth a shot". This is a big shock to most people, but respect is earned, it is not a right. I know, I know, in today's world everyone demands "respect", but many times their actions don't deserve respect.
That CoC is just peace, pray, and work hard for what you believe.
Far from being a joke, has there ever been a more appropriate philosophy for coding? I don't think so. It's not like it says who to pray TO.
And the peace part is something everyone needs these days to calm down a little.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Seen as guidelines for interaction *within the project* , chastity makes perfect sense to me. In other words "don't try to get laid on the project mailing list, hitting on another developer".
That's not the purpose of project communications, and nerds are notoriously awkward at flirting, often saying the wrong thing. To avoid saying the wrong thing while trying to hook up with the QA lady, just don't try to hook up with anyone on the project.
That is what happens to your fingers naturally after a lifetime of reaching for the Meta key in combination with other keystrokes.
He literally cannot put the fingers together anymore.
Emacs master.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why not use something a little more updated:
I am the sysadmin, thy savior, which have brought thee out of th elands of paper, out of the house of bondage
1. Thou shalt have no other sysadmin before me
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any Gaben image
3. Thou shalt not email thy sysadmin in vain
4. Remember it's the weekend, keep it holy, don't call
5. Honour thy manager and thy HR
6. Thou shalt not kill -9
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery on company computers
8. Thou shalt not torrent
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness on thine tickets
10. Thou shalt not covet they neighbors hardware, nor his software, nor anything else.
Ye shall erect these memos which I command thee upon mount cubicle
44. Fear the Day of Judgment.
Obviously those references terms of a CoC are metaphorical, as you can arbitrarily apply them to the belief system you hold.
However you are wrong about 44, it has no reference to God and is obviously referring to pull request reviews. 45 is about over-long standups.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Not to return evil for evil": no flame wars
This also meshes really well with a recent article Jeff Atwood wrote on healthy communities, with the rule "No Grudges"
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The entire point of these SJW attacks on open source projects is to use weaponized CoCs to hijack the project and kick and publicly humiliate their ideological enemies.
No doubt devised by the MJ12 and the gay frog lizard-people that rule from the center of the earth.
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
And if you consider god being the project, piety is pretty fine as well.
The only winning move is not to play
Yes. No CoC should need to be longer than... "just try to not be a jerk".
That's probably even a condensed version of the decalog, which in itself is already a really good shot at a far reaching CoC with amazing brevity.
bickerdyke
Fun like a light hearted joke triggers the butthurt feelings of the intellectually unsophisticated. I am glad i do not have to work in the software development business. I live in the U.S.A and never heard of such nonsense in real life. I hope it is the internet serving as the magnifying lens for the sad creatures who lurk on tumblr.
Even in political Correct Germany i had not to meet such uptight morons.
Where i was born CoCsuckers would get a pie cream in the face. A famous pseudo intellectual with an inflated ego even got ten or more of them.
At least some find a way to have a little fun about this.
..it's highly probable that you're one of the people that make them necessary.
Which is no contradiction to what a user posted above: The people who you need a CoC for are the ones no one wants to work with anyway.
In other words: As soon as you have, need or should have a CoC, you're going down that road to hell anyway, no matter which good intentions you had to have or have not a CoC.
bickerdyke
Welcome to 2018.
The days of pulling the "Everyone I disagree with is an alt-right manbaby facist nazi sexist homophobe" are long gone.
People can and have seen for themselves the attacks on innocent open source developers:
https://github.com/opal/opal/i...
Dumb, lactose99, very, very dumb.
Saint.
What douchebag third-grade developer has any say in what others chose to do in terms of this CoC thing that is fashionable just now? Screw you buddy.
Their choice is theirs to make and if it's a feasible CoC and a funny/whitty comment on this whole CoC fad at the same time, even so much the better.
F*ck either arrogant side of the camp and more power to this crew for lightening up this entire retarded entitled manner in which many a dimwit thinks they can tell others what to do in this entire era of dimwitted counter-productive over-bord PC non-sense, CoC fan or not!
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
What the politicos don't seem to grasp is that about 70ish percent of the population is politically disengaged by choice.
If you do things that piss people off then you're suddenly going to find people angry with you that previously were politically invisible.
Don't get me wrong... I know they're not going to stop and I don't want them to stop. This is just funny.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Chastity is the only honest way to go. However, you'll notice that requirement seriously interferes with recruitment in the modern world.
All similar codes I've seen pretend to be something else by forbidding unwanted sexual advances. "Unwanted" sounds oh-so reasonable, but the problem is: how do you know if an advance is unwanted if you don't try your luck? Communication between people is fragile at best. If you advance is accepted, then it was desired. Otherwise, you're a posteriori guilty of an unwanted advance and are a creep because You Should Have Known Better.
Ergo, the only sane solution is to say that all advances are unwanted in that community, which is called chastity.
Either the community is a place where one of the side-benefits is the possibility of romance/sex and where related behavior is sanctioned, or sex and romance are 100% off the menu.
I don't get it. The FOSS-dev community right now seems like a bunch of whiny crybabies just because some 16-year old girlies and wannabees are pursuing a SJW/CoC/PC fad right now. Perhaps you're over-reacting?
I find the comment of the SQLite crew to this entire charade absolutely fitting and just about all that needs to be said to all this. The rest of you foaming at the mouth about some immature douchebags being stupid on twitter should be a tad more chill about all this. It will pass and if your code is good enough it will still be in use long after any overboard SJW stuff has fallen by the wayside. So please calm down.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
A "Code of Conduct" is something they make you sign in middle school to teach you (and your parents) that governmental authorities can and will abuse the superficial trappings of contract law to scare you into submission. Adults have standards instead. They don't need to be written down unless you're a crook.
lactose99 responding to yourself is pathetic.
This code of conduct has been up for quite a while https://web.archive.org/web/20.... So clearly, all who were actually contributing to SQLite did not have a problem with it, as they would undoubtedly caused a stink at the time if they did.
Maybe this is a good way to weed out those who don't really want to contribute and should be ignored.
Besides, it is clear that is is partly tongue in cheek and partly just providing suggestions for how to build a community, particularly the bits like:
9. Do not do to another what you would not have done to yourself.
22. Do not give way to anger.
23. Do not nurse a grudge.
24. Do not entertain deceit in your heart.
29. Do not return evil for evil.
66. Do not love quarreling.
Check out the Twitter feed of that Coraline person. It's full of stuff that is prohibited by the code of conduct she (it?) promotes:
The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances
Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks
Public or private harassment
So that person is a hypocrite, definitely NOT an inclusive person, and definitely NOT the example anyone should follow.
All the things in that code of conduct are either common sense and are already in many other codes of conduct, or they are pure political bullshit and don't need to be in a code of conduct at all - like mentioning gender identity.
Open source is about the code so keep the conversation about the code, not people.
And people aren't perfect so interaction with people won't be perfect so if you can't handle that, maybe you need to contribute through a safety organization that will filter all communication to take out anything that triggers you. Maybe even replace it with compliments.
Definitely don't go to conferences because you will be shocked at how wild the real world is, or maybe go but wear a burka so nobody will recognize you or comment on your body parts they can't see.
There are ways to solve this problem without adopting political codes of conduct for open source projects, but those ways do not lead to more authority for the SJW so they are rejected.
If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Actually if you drop out the parts related to the practice of religion its a pretty good code of conduct for software development.
2 Love your neighbor as yourself. [ex test before commit]
3 You are not to kill, [ex crash your customers]
4 not to commit adultery; [ex don't f with your users]
5 you are not to steal [ex respect the software license]
6 nor to covet; [ex don't add a feature just because its in the commercial app you are cloning]
7 you are not to bear false witness. [ex admit it came from source forge]
8 You must honor everyone, [ex conform to the coding standard]
9 and never do to another what you do not want done to yourself. [ex replace tabs/spaces]
11 discipline your body; [ex proper ergonomics[
12 do not pamper yourself, [ex sorry, you only get one 4K monitor]
13 but love fasting. [ex sorry, only a midrange GPU]
14 You must relieve the lot of the poor, [ex contribute to open source]
15 clothe the naked, [ex comment your code]
16 visit the sick, [ex fix your bugs rather than just make them scrum tasks]
17 and bury the dead. [ex remove the dead code]
18 Go to help the troubled [ex when someone is stuck on a bug be their second set of eyes]
19 and console the sorrowing. [ex let the fanboy's PC dual boot]
20 Your way of acting should be different from the world’s way; [ex cross platform is not all the MS windows variations]
22 You are not to act in anger [ex sorry, you can't tell customers to RTFM]
23 or nurse a grudge. [ex desktop Linux, get over it]
24 Rid your heart of all deceit. [ex stop telling people they will like emacs after a little while]
25 Never give a hollow greeting of peace [ex "why yes my core code will be cross platforms"]
26 or turn away when someone needs your love. [ex Target the Android platform too]
27 Bind yourself to no oath lest it prove false, [ex "I swear I tested all my changes"]
28 but speak the truth with heart and tongue. [ex run the regression test]
29 Do not repay one bad turn with another. [ex recommend perl because someone recommended it to you]
30 Do not injure anyone, but bear injuries patiently. [ex re-run all tests after the merge but before the commit]
31 Love your enemies. [ex Target the Windows platform too]
32 If people curse you, do not curse them back but bless them instead. [ex No flamewars on the dev thread]
33 Endure persecution for the sake of justice. [ex drink the company coffee rather than leave for starbucks when getting behind on things]
34 You must not be proud, [ex fix bugs outside your niche in the codebase]
35 nor be given to wine. [ex just dual boot or run a real emulator]
36 Refrain from too much eating [ex use CPU and RAM responsibly]
37 or sleeping, [ex don't make your code slow so you can use the currently hyped programming language]
38 and from laziness. [ex don't try to apply your favorite programming language to everything]
39 Do not grumble [ex Don't bitch in comments]
40 or speak ill of others. [ex Your preferred operating system is not always the best choice]
43 Be certain that the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge. [ex commit changes only under your login]
44 Live in fear of judgment day [ex launch day
45 and have a great horror of hell. [ex developer will have to do customer support immediately after launch]
SQLite says 'No' and the SJW's Bray...
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
... missed some ...
Desire eternal life with all the passion of the spirit. [ex. your former peers don't refactor you code away]
Keep death daily before your eyes. [ex. you refactor your own code]
Keep constant guard over the actions of your life. [ex. test your functions inputs for validity]
Know for certain that God sees you everywhere. [ex. source control will out you]
Disclose wrongful thoughts to your spiritual mentor. [ex. peer review]
Guard your tongue against evil and depraved speech. [ex. use readable names]
Do not love much talking. [ex. readable names are not necessarily complete sentences]
Speak no useless words or words that move to laughter. [ex. use libs, don't roll you own]
Do not love much or boisterous laughter. [ex. no, you shouldn't do that in javascript]
Listen willingly to holy reading. [ex. read your Knuth and Stroustrup]
Fulfill not the desires of the flesh; hate your own will. [ex. customers choose the target OS, not the devs]
Love chastity. [ex. you might as well get used to it]
Hate no one. [ex. they may one day work at the company you want to join]
Be not jealous, nor harbor envy. [ex. when the machine for the new hire arrives, don't swap out the GPU and HD with yours]
Do not love quarreling. [ex. Its OK if they want to run Windows]
Shun arrogance. [ex. tabs are wrong, get over it, use spaces]
Respect your seniors. [ex. college did not make you a great programmer]
Love your juniors. [ex. after all, they are doing all those tasks you despise]
Make peace with your adversary before the sun sets. [ex. the current build must be working in the morning]
Why? Weren't you already kicked out?
If not, what are you whinging about?
The allusion to religion - the safe space of those with low IQ - is perfect. The whole SJW movement is a bullshit, an attempt of not so smart to enter so-called intellectual scene with their own bullshit agenda. The bullshit is so obvious when we consider other competitive endeavours, such as sports. According to SJW manifesto we should stop praising the best athletes and give equal honour to underachievers, underrepresented and what not. Similarly, we should admit women in men-only sport teams, even if overall performance against other men-only teams would degrade, because it is socially just. We could go further - let's ensure that older, less prettier (with less refined biological fenotype) women will get the same amount of attention, price, gits and love as young maidens with certain evolutionary refined phenotypes which indicate good genes (beauty is just lack of deformities - youth + health, after all). Let's ignore genetic evolution, biological and social competition, let's sweep it all under the rug and replace it with manifests of praising mediocrity and inferiority (instead of leaving the system to be self-regulated - the best we could do). Attempt to impose stupid regulations on a complex systems no one really fully understand is another sign of stupidity demonstrated by religious moralists and other not so smart people. The intelligence is in seeing things as they are, not as some want them to be, and to quickly adapt accordingly. There are innumerable examples of how really diverse and complex social environments very quickly settle down to an unwritten behavioral patterns without any of self-appointed social justices or any moral authority of idiots. Look no farther that any asian megapolis, places like Kathmandu (they have deep environmental problems but not the social ones) or Tokyo or Shanghai, Singapore, etc, etc. No superimposed written bullshit is required. And, yes, some people have better IQ or fenotypes and bringing them back down to the level of major mediocrity is, ironically, as bad as any other suppression of minorities and underrepresented groups.
respect is earned, it is not a right
Similarly, disrespect is not a right, though trolls who rail against conduct guidelines seem to believe it is.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Fundamentally the term "open source" was coined to try to take away the political meaning. Free software has always been political. I suspect this distinction is playing out in these debates too.
"[We'll be] really getting inside your head and making it an unpleasant place to be" -- Trent Reznor
When there is only 4 people who commit to the repo, and 1 guy alone do 2/3 of the job you can put every Rules of conduct it doesn't matter. Opensource project are always maintained by very few people, if you want to enforce code of conduct to creator/principal maintainer they will leave and the project will die.
A working 'code of conduct' could only be pushed by the top, not by external people who never work on the codebase.
Who's going to bell the cat? She's already been called out for advocating physically assaulting a journalist who interviewed someone she labels a "Nazi", and it won't take much research to learn that she's incapable of being civil to other people. Read for example her story of her short tenure at GitHub. Or start with her drive by shooting of the Opal project.
Or because the open source crowd disagreed with the political objectives of the "free software" crowd. We for example define quality differently, and much more conventionally.
That's why all of the mainstream CoCs don't allow any discrimination against anyone for any reason, including experience level. (You ageist bastards who think 1 year post college almost certainly doesn't qualify you to maintain a kernel subsystem and arbitrate patching disputes can fuck right off and die as the SJWs say)
I mean look at the Spotify CoC which openly says clearly that if you're a super-marginalized person (gay, transgendered, multi-racial, non-binary voodoo practitioner for example) you can shit all over the carpet and those evil normies can fuck right off and die:
weaponized CoCs rammed down the [...] throats
Not sure if grievance or sex fantasy.
So you have fantasies about having things rammed down your throat ?
I suppose it goes well with your pedophilia.
"Incel" is the self-adopted name of the group. How can it be a slur when they use it as their own proper name? Seriously, it's not even a reclamation project like some other groups use.
"Nazi" is slightly different, in that it historically was indeed used as a slur, but it has long since been successfully reclaimed. The group self-identifies, either directly or through explicitly allied groups. I'm still calling no slur here.
If I were calling them basement-dwellers or NEETs or unlovable freaks who no one will miss when they are gone, those might be considered slurs. Self-given proper names do not work that way. The truth hurts, doesn't it?
Ooh, I hit a nerve. Is the deadweight mad at being called out?
This code of conduct has proven its mettle in thousands of diverse communities for over 1,500 years, and has served as a baseline for many civil law codes since the time of Charlemagne.
Yeah, well ... uh ... er ... but what do celebs think of it, huh? Gotcha there!
Joke or not, SCREW code of conducts.
If your code is crap, your code is crap and you should be called out for it.
Behind a keyboard, no one knows if you are trans, straight, male, female, bi, whatever ... it should not matter.
Because if your code is crap .....
I do not understand how this poison is permeating these communities. Back in the day on Usenet, you got flamed, you took your lumps, perhaps apologized, and kept on posting. You learned your lesson. You didn't go cry and then subvert the community via the force of a CoC.
It makes dumb people mad, as it's intended to. Just take a look at the comments on this post!
"To Regulate Business fairly and with efficiency"
There, solved that for you.,
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Okay, something like a code of conduct is supposed to be some print you bust out so you have an excuse to boot someone who is getting in the way of productive interaction like an overt troll or spammer. Normal users should never need to read it and it should never be applied to them even if they technically violated it.
Seriously, stop being douches. For the most part all this crap people are pushing has nothing to do with software development. Code is objective, it works or doesn't work. See ReiserFS for why we shouldn't care about the nature of the developer. Sure he might be a murderer but his code doesn't care.
CoC's are to boot spammers and overt trolls. You dust them off to find some excuse in the legalese to boot them and otherwise leave the terms buried and enforce roughly on the order of jaywalking. Nobody wants or needs a hall monitor in a software development project.
Been a while since I read this last. On this reading, this struck me as relevant in the slacktivist era:
"61. Do not wish to be called holy before one is holy; but first to be holy, that you may be truly so called."
As with some other provisions of this Rule, and as with that other defining work at the other end of the Middle Ages, The Imitation of Christ, great emphasis was placed on avoiding self-righteousness and on discovering your own faults rather than expecting to be praised for discovering the faults of others.
Perhaps in today's world it's seen as offensive to adopt a code of conduct that tells you to respect all people (a clearer translation of #8 from the Latin) and hate no one (#64) rather than defining special protected classes. Perhaps it's seen as offensive to have a code that says to make peace with one's adversary before the sun sets in the era when we're being encouraged to protect certain viewpoints while harassing those perceived to be on the "wrong side" and ensuring "they're not welcome anymore, anywhere."
More ethical thought went into the composition of this code 1500 years ago than into the codes of today, that's for certain.
Oh come on, man, clearly this is just satire. Can't you take a joke? I'm doing the whole devil's advocate thung, nothing more; just a bit a humor mized in, and what's the matter with that?
Jesus Christ, man; I tell you, these snowflakes have gotten way too sensitive in this day and age.
They serve no purpose other than as a hammer to be used against people who practice wrongthink.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Afflict the afflicted, comfort the comfortable. Speak truth to the powerless!
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Um... err... wut
Wow you've really got obsessed over me. I guess it's kind of flattering but your projections reveal rather deep seated issues of yours.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Well.... SQLite Is Public Domain, we fool! :)
The code of conduct is also basically completely useless because of what is stated in https://www.sqlite.org/copyrig... :
"Open-Source, not Open-Contribution SQLite is open-source, meaning that you can make as many copies of it as you want and do whatever you want with those copies, without limitation. But SQLite is not open-contribution. In order to keep SQLite in the public domain and ensure that the code does not become contaminated with proprietary or licensed content, the project does not accept patches from unknown persons. "
No,pulling the "You are obviously a conspiracy theorist". Your response just made that more likely, indicating that you consider any opposition of your pet theory a political attack.
My impression is that you are a bit nuts. But then who isn't?
Projecting much?
No one gives a shit.
You could at least do better than just restating my comment
Yeah magic of time travel
I mean it isn't like I was posting in this thread before you ?
Oh wait I was.
When the Linus surrender happened Coarline proposed to set up an organization to help reduce the "burden" administering a CoC places on a FOSS project. I suggest you contact her, you could get in on the ground floor.
You inverted the usual "comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable" narrative. Your post was all about shitting on society's dregs, people who got the short end of the stick, people who are already miserable. Instead, you should be helping to uplift them. Attack the powerful, not the powerless. Speak the truth to them instead.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Oh I'm so scared.
You inverted the usual "comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable" narrative. Your post was all about shitting on society's dregs, people who got the short end of the stick, people who are already miserable.
Ah, I see. But you missed something about my post. There's a difference between bullying and fair ostracism. The geek community was founded mostly by people who had been bullied, and in response to this trauma, they decided to set up a community that would never enforce social norms (so that others could not be unfairly targeted as theu were). This resulted in an influx of people who had been fairly ostracized for flagrantly unacceptable behavior: who were looking for a place to hide from the pressure so they wouldn't have to grow up. And they whined and cajoled and manipulated toward that end, molding us into the perfect enablers, so that we would not give them the treatment they needed to grow as people.
And now, we're starting to realize just how badly you've played us. The tides are turning, and you are being kicked out into the cold where you always belonged. If you don't like that, there is a solution, and it's the same one everyone else offered you. You have the problem, and you have to change.
Instead, you should be helping to uplift them. Attack the powerful, not the powerless. Speak the truth to them instead.
I am speaking the truth to them. I cannot uplift them while doing this, because the truth is inherently not uplifting. They are not the afflicted, but the affliction. They have all the power they lacked in the past, but they have proven themselves unworthy to hold it. The truth will set them free, if there is any decency in them, but first it will break them. It cannot do otherwise.
I know exactly how hard it is to hear that you were not bullied, but fairly ostracized: that no one really wants you around, and it's all your fault. You appeal to my compassion because you think I wouldn't do this if I knew how it feels, but the opposite is true. I do this because I know how it feels.
What the...me? Who on Earth are you talking to? You've got some conversation going on in your head and I wasn't there for my half.
You don't attack powerless people who society shits on. You attack the powerful. End of story. If you're attacking the little people, you went wrong somewhere.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
How about attacking neither as a general thing, in the interests of societal calm? Especially since in what I gather of this claimed scenario, "the powerful" at that's used in the original phrase aren't really shitting on the powerless, it's much lower level monkey (or lizzard?) brain level stuff.
The basic framework of dividing people into classes and setting them at each other's throats, which Marx brought to something of an apotheosis, has overall done people no good, while resulting in a bare minimum of 100 million people murdered by their own governments in the 20th Century.
What the...me? Who on Earth are you talking to? You've got some conversation going on in your head and I wasn't there for my half.
No, I'm looking back over this branch of the thread, and I'm pretty sure this is the right one.
You don't attack powerless people who society shits on. You attack the powerful. End of story. If you're attacking the little people, you went wrong somewhere.
It's funny; I usually hear that from the SJWs in my social circle. It's actually one of the biggest reasons I'm not an SJW myself. Are you sure you aren't one of them? I mean, this whole bit about making up counterfactual power dynamics to paint yourself as a helpless victim, then using this as justification to render yourself immune from criticism, is spot-on.
You don't attack the powerless. You don't attack the powerful. You attack the wrongdoers, and power dynamics, real or imagined, be damned. Not that it matters, given that you aren't even evaluating the power dynamics very well: you're coming at this from the side that thinks these projects will die if they leave, and threatening to kill the project by leaving unless you're allowed to creep it up at will and get away with pushing out whomever you want. This is not something a powerless person does, or even seriously considers, because they know it wouldn't work. You think it will. That tells me that you either think you're powerful enough to pull it off, or else you're just incredibly stupid.
Society stopped shitting on geeks a long time ago. If you're still covered in shit by now, it's because you've been rolling around in your own. Stop doing that.
How about attacking neither as a general thing, in the interests of societal calm?
We tried that for decades. It's why the geek community has become such a creep-infested mess: people who don't attack anyone turned out to be the perfect enablers.
The basic framework of dividing people into classes and setting them at each other's throats, which Marx brought to something of an apotheosis, has overall done people no good, while resulting in a bare minimum of 100 million people murdered by their own governments in the 20th Century.
This is quite true. Unfortunately, it has been poisoned by people looking to escape the normal, natural, and appropriate social pressure to grow the fuck up. There isn't a geek alive who doesn't know at least one of Those Geeks, the ones who thought they were being bullied when people avoided them, and now consider anything less than total validation to be a personal attack.
So, for the time being, this is necessary. Carrots failed, so it's time for the stick.
So...it's totally OK to use SJW tactics right up until the point until they get turned against you - and then suddenly they're not OK. How typical.
Society stopped shitting on geeks a long time ago.
LOL remember 2014? Gamergate? Remember the catchphrase? "It's time to go back to bullying geeks again."
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
So...it's totally OK to use SJW tactics right up until the point until they get turned against you - and then suddenly they're not OK. How typical.
First: when did I say that anything I'm doing was okay? Over the course of this thread and the GNU KCG thread and even that poll about CoCs, I've called myself an asshole, a bully, and a hypocrite. I've admitted to violating Slashdot's own TOS six ways from Sunday. I drew a line between fair ostracism versus bullying, only to admit in the very next breath that I was crossing the line I myself drew. These are not the actions of someone who thinks that what he's doing is okay.
Second, "SJW tactics"? I have a few SJWs in my social circle, yes, but they've generally been horrified by my tactics. I deliberately seek out trigger words, and use them to twist the knife. I've adopted some typical lines from abusers and bullies as catchphrases to turn against your kind. I flat-out tell people that the only way you're ever going to be fixed at this point (noting that I call you broken) is to traumatize you. What kind of SJW does any of this? Sure, they have some severe consistency problems, but when it comes to trauma they don't mess around: crossing that line is their cardinal sin, and I've crossed it enough times to build a megachurch.
No, I'm not an SJW. I'm not even a liberal. I'm what happens when a conservative comes to their senses about the incels and Nazis.
LOL remember 2014? Gamergate? Remember the catchphrase? "It's time to go back to bullying geeks again."
I actually don't remember that catchphrase, but I can't say I'm surprised to find out it existed. Not very many people in our society really understand the difference between ostracism and bullying, and that's not just a conservative-versus-liberal thing or even a victim-versus-perpetrator thing. The whole damn society forgot it, and the effects of this were devastating.
Back then, I'd have agreed with them. When I say most of society doesn't understand the difference between legitimate ostracism versus bullying, I was no different. I hadn't figured it out back then either.
Nowadays, well, I'd still agree. Not because it's okay, but because you have made it necessary. That's how bad you've gotten.
I'm an exception, but perhaps that's because I'm older than the generation you're making these claims about.
On the other hand, I'm not aware of a single infamous incident where SJWs purged a geek guilty of what you claim. If this problem is as widespread as you claim, point at some examples, else we can safely dismiss you.
I'm an exception, but perhaps that's because I'm older than the generation you're making these claims about.
I haven't tied my claims to any generation in particular, nor have I intended to. In poker, they have a saying: "If you've been playing for half an hour and still can't spot the sucker at the table, it's you".
On the other hand, I'm not aware of a single infamous incident where SJWs purged a geek guilty of what you claim.
Sure. I'll even pull one straight out of the recene news: Linus Torvalds. And the new kernel CoC wasn't even in place at that time. But even so, someone got to him, and he realized that he'd been doing something wrong. And he apologized, got himself some help, and started work on some actual change, and it looks to me like he's on the road to being forgiven.
It would be nice if all of Those Geeks worked that way. Sadly, they don't. Some just plain never learn without a metaphorical swift kick in the butt. This is what makes systems to deliver said kicks necessary.
Though your use of the word "infamous" gives me some pause. Cases don't typically get infamous unless the accused (or, less often, the accuser) is already infamous, and let's not kid ourselves: most of Those Geeks are nobodies. They don't get famous, and tbus, neither do their cases. Conversely, the geeks who do get famous almost never manage that feat without picking up at least a little social grace. Torvalds was an outlier in that regard. But it sounds like one way or another, he got his kick and is now moving forward at last
Another lie. Why, of course he perfectly matches your claim that:
Which you now reveal to extends to geeks who failed to "[pick up] at least a little social grace" as you define it. Linux obviously has a lot of that, you're twisting his justified sharp verbal sanctions into a ludicrous claim about his general character.
Try again.
Hey, he's the one who admitted to being one of Those Geeks. You can read it right in his apology letter; you don't have to take my word for it. And you know what? That's good enough for me.
Look, I'm sorry you lost Linus. Well, okay, no, actually I'm not sorry. And although RMS isn't quite where he needs to be, he does seem to be taking sone steps in the right direction, so it looks like you're about to lose him too. Your gods have begun to abandon you. Are you scared?