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Global Carbon Emissions Jump To All-Time High in 2018 (theguardian.com)

Global carbon emissions will jump to a record high in 2018, according to a report, dashing hopes a plateau of recent years would be maintained. It means emissions are heading in the opposite direction to the deep cuts urgently needed, say scientists, to fight climate change. From a report: The rise is due to the growing number of cars on the roads and a renaissance of coal use and means the world remains on the track to catastrophic global warming. However, the report's authors said the emissions trend can still be turned around by 2020, if cuts are made in transport, industry and farming emissions. The research by the Global Carbon Project was launched at the UN climate summit in Katowice, Poland, where almost 200 nations are working to turn the vision of tackling climate change agreed in Paris in 2015 into action. The report estimates CO2 emissions will rise by 2.7% in 2018, sharply up on the plateau from 2014-16 and 1.6% rise in 2017.

Almost all countries are contributing to the rise, with emissions in China up 4.7%, in the US by 2.5% and in India by 6.3% in 2018. The EU's emissions are near flat, but this follows a decade of strong falls. "The global rise in carbon emissions is worrying, because to deal with climate change they have to turn around and go to zero eventually," said Prof Corinne Le Quere, at the University of East Anglia,who led the research published in the journal Nature. "We are not seeing action in the way we really need to. This needs to change quickly."

399 comments

  1. WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can understand under-developed countries like China and India, which are still in their growing years, but the USA 2.5%? There we have the real environmental criminals.

    You have all the nuclear, solar, and wind, and policies, and programs, and abilities to stear the environmental situation, but you just keep burning gas and blowing fumes like nothing.

    1. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Up by 2.2% actually

    2. Re: WTF USA? by aliquis · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah but in this case I'd agree they have the world's traitor Trump in charge.
      While I want each people to have sovereignty and be able to keep being themselves I definitely don't agree with him on that the wealth of those owning fossil resources is worth more than the earth itself.

    3. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is not about Trump, it is about every asshole in US\CAD driving SUV because it is "Safer" than driving small car... It is about every asshole eating MCdonald that comes with pile of garbage with every meal. It is about every asshole eating 75ml of vegan yogurt packed in individual plastic bottle. It is about every asshole drinking coffee in double cups because it is hot....That is what is all about, not Trump, Obama, Macron or other pupets

    4. Re: WTF USA? by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      I definitely don't agree with him on that the wealth of those owning fossil resources is worth more than the earth itself.

      I'd like to think their wealth will decrease when the truth finally hits but of course it won't. It'll be the taxpayer picking up the bill (as usual).

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:WTF USA? by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The energy coming from my $10,000 solar panels on my $900,000 suburban home which feeds my $6000 EV charger which fuels my $60,000 Tesla is free! It comes from the sun.

    6. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it is warming. It is so humid it takes forever to braid my hair

    7. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      A Chinese apologist. China is adding more than 250 GW of new coal plants in China, and another 250 GW in other nations before 2021. And yet, you point to America as being horrible. America has been declining for the last 10 years. A 2.5 on 14% is much smaller than a 4.7 rise on 33%.

    8. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah thatâ(TM)s the way the cookie crumbles

    9. Re:WTF USA? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The cheapest energy also emits CO2.

      That's not true. Even if you ignore the externalized costs (e.g. healthcare) from coal and gas, on-shore wind is now cheaper than coal and going to overtake gas in the next few years.

      The real problem is that powerful people are invested in dirty generation and don't want to see their assets become worthless. Plus nuclear is a massive welfare programme for energy companies and they will cling to it for as long as they can.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re: WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeppir!!! We can mostly only afford 1 vehicle now with the prices forced so high partly because of all the pollution crap, and sometimes we want to set out on the open road and drive a couple thousand miles (you can do that easy in a country this size - planning one for 10,000 miles next summer to north slope of Alaska and back (to Virginia)) and a Mini is NOT the car to do that in. It has to be comfortable for ALL our driving situations, and that means "buy the SUV." A red Ford Edge ST will be making the trip to Prudhoe Bay with me in it. If you bozos hadn't killed the bigger-car market with the insane miles-per-gallon CAFE requirements, maybe it would be a somewhat more fuel efficient CAR I would be driving, but NO, you-all have to F-up the market by making CARS to be undesirable for some of our requirements, so we buy cars that are suitable for ALL our requirements, and drive them ALL the time so's the end up consuming gas at 26 mpg instead of 40 mpg. You efficiency and safety zealots did this TO us, not FOR us...

    11. Re:WTF USA? by gtall · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unless the global warming alarm is well-placed. You seem willing to bet the future of the planet on a view that over 95% of climate scientists say is wrong. Errmmm...what have you got on your side to counter the scientists...other than you do not wish to believe them?

    12. Re:WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 2

      Love it!

      My $30K geothermal heat/cool system is saving me a pile of money!!! Maybe. Payments for the initial cost are in a 30 year loan about $180 a month, and the electricity to run the entire place including heating and cooling ranges from about $85 to $160 / month for 1700 sq. ft. where, in Virginia, winters are moderate. Add the 2, and the entire cost of energy for the place runs around $400 / month. However, I now don't have to worry about getting a heating oil bill for exactly 1 month of $630. Added to the typical $85 electric bill, that's >$700. Am I saving money? Maybe, maybe not, but I definitely don't get a monthly shock of $630 for fuel.

    13. Re:WTF USA? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      A stronger economy creates higher carbon. Also normally whatever energy savings we find, we will use the excess into an other area, so the net energy use is increased.

      We build more fuel efficient engines, we buy bigger cars and trucks. A company who saves 40% in fuel, will grow their company 80%.

      Now it is political suicide for the leaders to tell their whole population that they need to sacrifice for the greater good, unless there is an opposing army knocking on its borders. And giving our politicians that much power to press the population to sacrifice on a seemingly abstract threat, would open the door for many other abuses, because we have more problems then just the environment.

      The United States is still a growing country. But unfortunately our culture has been fixated on being the largest economy and judges itself superior to others based on that. While other countries may have a happier population and longer life spans, the US will have more wealth. To fix the environment the US needs a major culture shift in values, which would be very difficult, and if a slight mistake is done could get violent very fast.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    14. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.c2es.org/content/u-s-emissions/ ...U.S. net emissions declined 11.5 percent from 2005 to 2015
      Various data and graphs at site

    15. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I blame california for burning down their forests.

    16. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You deride the official equations?

    17. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably should have went with 30k in insulation. $400/mo to heat/cool 1700 square feet is INSANELY EXPENSIVE.

    18. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I rest my case.

    19. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it is not free. It cost you $976,000. Youve got a long way before you even break even. Sorry to burst your bubble

    20. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if "green energy" actually generates more carbon anyway? That would make more sense, since almost every industry has begun switching to some frm of that thing. It doesnt make sense that emissions would rise with all major companies doing that, and more electric vehicles on the road than ever before.

    21. Re: WTF USA? by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It isn't about us necessarily being an asshole, but conditions in our lives that direct us to make such decisions.
      US/CAD we have strict rules when we are late for work. Normally within 5 minutes of the prescribed time, if we are late a lot, our living income can be cut, because you would get fired.
      So we rush to work, Grabbing prepared fast food along the way, or picking up something from your fridge, while on the run you will need energy, so we have coffee at hand.
      The 9:00 to 5:00 has became 8:30 - 5:30 with that 1/2 hour lunch break only being a loophole for the lazy who doesn't want to do work.

      In America our way of life and our place in society is based on your job and what you do. When meting someone new, it is common for a person to ask what is their job is. (Or in college what their major is, so we can figure what their job will be) We do this to try to figure out the persons status in America. In other countries this is taboo or just rude, but they will use other criteria to figure out the persons class, such as where they live, who is their family, your religion...

      This cultural normal, which was once just part of our culture, is now causing environmental impact, to change that would be very difficult. It isn't about just being jerks, we may care deeply for the environment, but we are stuck in a culture where to prosper you will need to make choices that may not be environmental.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    22. Re:WTF USA? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I can understand under-developed countries like China and India, which are still in their growing years, but the USA 2.5%? There we have the real environmental criminals.

      The simple fact is we have real environmental criminals everywhere. However, they are a minuscule percentage of the population everywhere. Whether that's due to a lack of opportunity is a matter for masturbatory debate. The simple fact is that today, a tiny percentage of the population derives the majority of the profit from the pollution which is occurring.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re: WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Well, its $400 a month for the entire energy expense, not just heating and cooling, and oil heat is insaner, so I'm not worried about saving or not saving money. I do like not having to deal with oil heat.

    24. Re:WTF USA? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Yeah but the sun is nuclear power. ... and it causes cancer.

    25. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is not about Trump, it is about every asshole in US\CAD driving SUV because it is "Safer" than driving small car...

      Not really. Oh sure that is there, but I don't think it is the primary reason. In a similar vein you have people who despite possibly many of them being on the religious right seem to mostly believe in, "I got, or am going to get mine, and to hell with everyone else." Again, I don't think that one is primary, but it is there.

      The primary one is all the tribalism as a replacement for independent rational thought. Trump didn't get where he is solely because he is an adept liar. No, he got where he is because he is an adept liar who knows or can figure out the lies people want to hear and in many cases the lies people want to believe.

      In short Trump is a symptom, and while the symptom needs addressed less it kill the patient, he is nevertheless a symptom.

      The biggest addressable cause I can see is likely the fact that we are allowed to legally sell our right to free speech for money. If people have a story to tell that is of material public interest, there should be no legal way to suppress it.

      In short the cure to all the lies is more truth.

      Sure we have to cut carbon emissions, and we should do so, but ultimately we have to address the root causes that are stopping rational debate.

    26. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You appear to simply want to control people's live, which comes with the ability to steal their money by deception.

      Who are you contending is trying to steal people's money? Is it the people who are conducting scientific research? Or the people reporting on it? Or maybe it's the people advocating that we take the scientific research into account in our decision making so that we don't risk doing something stupid while maximizing short term gains? Seriously, if you think there is some conspiracy to steal the hard-working joe's money by conducting and reporting on scientific research, don't hold back. Tell us how it works and who benefits!

    27. Re:WTF USA? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Geothermal is pretty sensible if it works in your area. $30k is a lot though. I didn't realize it would cost that much for a 1700sqft house.

    28. Re:WTF USA? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      I wrap myself in tinfoil to protect against that.

    29. Re:WTF USA? by 110010001000 · · Score: 0, Troll

      You were modded down because what you say makes no sense. If you have some means of generating energy that is truly cheaper, then tons of "rich people" will jump on that, because manufacturing costs will drop and that will make them more money. There is no global conspiracy.

    30. Re:WTF USA? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cheaper is not the same thing as more profitable. In fact it's quite often the exact opposite.

      There is a lot of money sunk into generating CO2. Mines, wells, refineries, transport, storage, power stations... And they are all quickly becoming worthless thanks to cheaper renewables. Battery storage is making peaker plants uneconomical too.

      The absolute worst thing for them is that renewables are democratizing energy production. Instead of being the preserve of big businesses with hundreds of millions to invest now individuals can generate their own power. Communities can get together and buy a turbine or a battery pack. Farmers can install some panels on the craggy land they can't grow on, or in an unused field.

      This happens every time there is a big disruption to an industry.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    31. Re:WTF USA? by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

      That's easy. It's for a few reasons.
      1) Because we can. You don't think Trump pulled out of the Paris Agreement for nothing did you.
      2) Cheap gas. With a gallon or 3.79 liters of gas selling for $1.97 it's hard to wean off the petrol titties.
      3) size of country and population density. Since we have such a shit national public transport system. Well we don't even HAVE one except private but anyway. We have grown up relying on our cars to get us everywhere. Most city's public transport sucks and that is compounded if you don't actually live IN a city

      but mostly because we can.

    32. Re: WTF USA? by lactose99 · · Score: 1

      The 9:00 to 5:00 has became 8:30 - 5:30 with that 1/2 hour lunch break only being a loophole for the lazy who doesn't want to do work.

      Not sure where you're working but there are actual employers out there who value their talent and don't treat them like chattel. Granted they seem more and more difficult to come by as unbridled capitalism continues unabated.

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
    33. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheaper means government using taxes to force it cheaper. Meanwhile, every industry that has competition and profit (capitalism) as the driving force have reduced actual costs. At the same time, every industry that has government using taxes to force a commodity to be "competitive" are more expensive (student financing, homes, health insurance).

      Why?

    34. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who modded you up? You own none of that.

    35. Re: WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Great. Let's drop all subsidies for wind.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    36. Re:WTF USA? by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Wind might be "cheap" but hydro delivered to my door is $.14/kwh. Whereas natural gas is so cheap these days it's almost free. The carbon tax here is literally more than the price of the gas and the total cost is still cheaper than heating with electricity (by like 300%). So yeah we burn gas.

    37. Re:WTF USA? by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Cheaper is not the same thing as more profitable. In fact it's quite often the exact opposite.

      There is a lot of money sunk into generating CO2. Mines, wells, refineries, transport, storage, power stations... And they are all quickly becoming worthless thanks to cheaper renewables. Battery storage is making peaker plants uneconomical too.

      That doesn't matter, because there are plenty of wealthy people who have no money invested in any of that and therefore no reason to maintain it. We see other industries where the old entrenched players who refused to modernized get toppled all the time. Being able to do something at less expense than the competition means there's more profit available. If the existing market refuses to seize it, someone else will and the consumers really don't care about much beyond the price.

      Only when you have strong government intervention into markets can you prevent them from naturally gravitating towards the most cost effective solutions. Otherwise, the more the existing companies dig in their heels, the more incentive it creates for someone to implement the cheaper solution.

    38. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Climate "science" has zero account for the fucking amount of biological life on the planet. Carbon is food for plants. 1/100th of an inch of new top soil yearly over the 60% of the planet surface that sustains green life will sequester the entire human output of CO2 on the entire planet on avergae. Guess how well they're measuring the top soil? Guess how well they're measuring the effects of the overwhelming amount of new green life on the surface? Anyone who's taken even an elementary physics course understands feedback mechanisms and the fact that you can't say x is having an impact IN ANY DIRECTION if you don't understand the feedback mechanisms of the system at play. What's worse, they don't even try because they know they aren't capable due to their shit field and their lack of real education.

      Climate "scientists" take fucking college algebra and call it quits. Until we police our global education system, yeah, I'll continue to ignore the climate "scientists" who can't do the mathematics I could do as a sophomore in high school, or provide the slightest evidence of predictive value.

      I encourage you to look further in your claim and see where the 95% survey number came from. I promise you it isn't how you're using it.

    39. Re: WTF USA? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      It isn't the employer They say you should work 9-5 with a 1/2 hour lunch break (or even a full hour). It is we employees who decide that we should be working these extra hours and judging those who don't.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    40. Re:WTF USA? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Oh of course they will fail to hold back the tide eventually. But for now they are resisting, slowing down adoption.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    41. Re: WTF USA? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Some places have done, at least for on-shore. Of course to be fair we need to drop the subsidies on other stuff too. Every nuclear plant will have to close I'm afraid, they can't afford their own meltdown insurance. Coal is obviously gone, gas might survive.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    42. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, but, what if it is all a hoax and we have a cleaner planet and healthier air and water for nothing?

    43. Re:WTF USA? by altagir · · Score: 1

      here goes another wannabe scientist thinking he knows it all.
      yes they do take it into account of course, you ain't the smartest you know, and CO2 capture from its biological mass has its limits, obviously.
      and since obviously CO2 is still increasing, obviously plants are not enough ...
      funny you pointing at the lack of education of scientists, you have high opinion of yourself, so why don't go write a paper and got yoursellf peer-laughed at?

      clearly you seem to categorize yourself in the 5% retard every group contains?

    44. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      China and India are in their "growing years" so I can understand.

      Oi vey. You DO understand that you can't simply "forgive" carbon emissions simply based on "they're growing/modernizing" right?

      Shit like this is why global compacts simply won't work. Because you'll get countries like China/India who will sign on, and then simply continue outputting whatever the hell they feel like.

      And any "carbon trading" system will simply be gamed.

      Now, I'm not saying the US's results are in any way "desirable". They're not.

      The main problem is the activist/regulatory environment here.
      Due to poliicies enacted because of the positively PSYCHOTIC "no nuclear" lobby, the chances of implementing nuclear power in the US is virtually zero.
      We quite simply CANNOT implement enough solar or wind power. Nor could we build lesser capacities and back it with batteries. The quantities required simply aren't feasible.

      You also need to understand that it's not because the US is being deliberately "dirtier".
      It's that total ACTIVITY for carbon production has been on the rise since the economy heated up.
      So nobody's pulling filtration units off, or deliberately choosing dirtier options.

      And it's very EASY to sit back in a country like Germany (with a total area of 138K square miles) and preach about "what ought to be done" in a country like the US (with a total area of 3.7 MILLION square miles). Because hey, logistics is EASY, right? EVERY country on the planet has had a couple millennia to evenly distribute it's population throughout its' borders, right?

      Now, if YOU can come up with a REAL solution that the no-nuke crazies will accept, that DOESN'T involve CRASHING OUR ECONOMY or killing off 90% of the populace and forcing the remainder to live in caves and eat grass, knock yourself out!

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    45. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple, someone fact checked the 97% (not 95%) and the first 3 scientists on that list did not agree with the conclusions given to them.

      So keep repeating your made up number. It makes you look stupid and makes the rest of us realize everything you say is likely untrue, weather you are lying on purpose or are too stupid to realize it.

    46. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all relative. I've got a $12k Chevy Volt which is cheap for a gasoline car. I've got a $300 charger for it. $10k in panels would provide for the EV and the rest of the energy for the house. For a 25 mpg car that's about 3500 gallons of fuel, 235 fill ups or roughly 89,000 miles. That's below the average lifespan of a car before the fancy solar system and fancy charger pay for themselves. And that's not counting the money saved from the electricity the house uses. It's not free energy, but its definitely more affordable in the long run.

    47. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Freeman Dyson has argued this fact. Let me post a quote from him. AC is not wrong in what he posted. Many scientists agree that more study is needed in this area.

      "The models solve the equations of fluid dynamics, and they do a very good job of describing the fluid motions of the atmosphere and the oceans. They do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields and farms and forests. They do not begin to describe the real world we live in ". Freeman Dyson

    48. Re: WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hey, if you work someplace that doesn't give a shit when you wander in the door, more power to you.

      Just don't bitch when you're replaced by automation, because it's more reliable.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    49. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sure that fire in California didn't help the carbon situation. If it matters.

    50. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck Ya!

      But they left off one thing in their feature lists...Will Crush a Prius effortlessly.

    51. Re: WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 1

      Well, its $400 a month for the entire energy expense, not just heating and cooling, and oil heat is insaner, so I'm not worried about saving or not saving money. I do like not having to deal with oil heat.

      Yeah. It's not just the equipment. It's laying the fields / drilling the wells for the loops and all the labor.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    52. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 1

      It's not just the equipment. It's laying the fields / drilling the wells for the loops and all the labor.

      It adds up fast.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    53. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Yes. Because that's what we need. The government controlling every facet of our lives. Including how we do business with one another.

      Because Capitalism Is Evil!
      Because profit is a nasty word!
      Everything should be run at a loss, as a public charity, right?

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    54. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you look at the linked website, and then the Global Carbon Budget presentation, you will see that US CO2 emissions decreased 0.4% from 2016-2017.

      Using the Global Carbon Atlas at the linked website, the only way you get a 2.5% rise in US CO2 emissions is by going back to 1990 as the baseline. According to that source, US CO2 emissions peaked in 2000, and are down 12% in the 17 years after that (the last year for data is 2017).

    55. Re:WTF USA? by dasunt · · Score: 1

      My $30K geothermal heat/cool system is saving me a pile of money!!! Maybe. Payments for the initial cost are in a 30 year loan about $180 a month, and the electricity to run the entire place including heating and cooling ranges from about $85 to $160 / month for 1700 sq. ft. where, in Virginia, winters are moderate.

      Meanwhile, in Minnesota, on an admittedly quite small, but also quite old house, my gas + electric bill hit over $100 and I thought it was too much. :p I think it tops out at $150/mo or so during the coldest month.

    56. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You efficiency and safety zealots did this TO us, not FOR us...

      Really? That's the only reason you went with an SUV? Because it sounds like a car was never going to suit your needs, no matter how much pollution it spewed.

    57. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha!

      It won't be, "for nothing"

      It will be at the costs of destroyed economies, jobs, and income.

      Put it this way...you will have clean air and water for you when you are living in your grass huts and scavenging for twigs and nuts.

    58. Re:WTF USA? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0, Troll

      It is about wealth redistribution, not the environment.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    59. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear moderators, 10k mi on an suv ought to cost this person some /. karma..

    60. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The biggest addressable cause I can see is likely the fact that we are allowed to legally sell our right to free speech for money. If people have a story to tell that is of material public interest, there should be no legal way to suppress it.

      In short the cure to all the lies is more truth.

      What are you talking about? Please explain?

    61. Re: WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      I could do that trip in comfort and for a great price in my old '69 Ford LTD, but you can't buy anything like that because it has to be smaller and more fuel efficient and safer. The 1st one makes it uncomfortable AND inadequate, the last 2 make it expensive.

      Inadequate == my old '69 Ford LTD I could have installed the tape player under the dash, the ham radio pretty much anywhere since there was a lot of room, the antennas for the ham radio(s) and the CB on the rood, trunk, and even the hood, and the trunk would take all the stuff I need to bring along. The car was pretty big.

      Current cars have computers and all sorts of stuff all over the place, the safety equipment (air bags) makes mounting things risky lest they be propelled such that they slice your head off when driven through the air by the air bag, we need radios where the control head is tiny so's it'll mount on the dash or a stalk coming up from the seat bolt or some strange thing like that, and everything is just basically difficult.

      The Ford Edge ST I have on order will be easier to mount things, have enough room to haul stuff, place antennas, mount radios, etc. Still tough to watch out what you're doing with all the damned air bags (I'm 71, been driving since 1963, and have NEVER been in a situation where air bags or antilock brakes would have helped me) and will go from here in Virginia to the end of the Dalton highway and the north slope of Alaska comfortably. I can't get a nice, cheap '69 Ford LTD any more, and have to buy the $43K Ford Edge ST, and that's expensive enough that I can't also afford a $30K fuel-efficient something-else. No, I refuse to buy a stripper with a mouse-motor that won't get out of its own way, let alone mine, and want something that accelerates nicely onto the freeway. Sooo.. the Edge will be my only car.

      Make an electric car that either goes 300 miles and recharges in 5 minutes that sells for what my Edge ST does and hauls all the stuff my Edge ST will and I'll buy it. Making such a car is how you're going to reduce CO2, not by telling people they have to live less pleasantly. Get busy, get your butt into a lab and invent the magic battery that will make such a car possible. That's how to insure the future of the planet. Passing some law will have no effect at all, unless it possibly makes things worse like the efficiency laws and the car safety laws and so forth already have.

    62. Re:WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      I looked at it that I was soon going to have to replace my old heating and AC unit anyway as it was getting old, the oil furnace being around 20 years old, and you pretty much have to buy a new AC for a new oil furnace, and that'd have cost maybe $10K anyway, so I only spent and additional $20K. AND, I didn't actually spend an additional $20K since I got the 30% tax credit, so I actually spent an additional $11K. The only problem with that is that I had to finance the $30K to have it installed, and didn't REfinance it for $21K when the tax credit showed up. I bought a Nikon D4s camera body instead ($6,500) and pocketed the rest - mostly blew it playing poker and travelling. Soooo... the $400ish a month is a bit higher than reality for the geothermal, there's the price of a new heating and AC system of SOME sort in there anyway, as well as a new camera.

    63. Re:WTF USA? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      My $30K geothermal heat/cool system is saving me a pile of money!!!

      Geothermal means accessing the heat of a vulcano or drilling a mile deep. Putting some pipes underground for a _heat pump_ is not "geothermal".

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    64. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GM axed the volt.

    65. Re:WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the 3 200' wells were about $12K. Would have been $8K but they couldn't use the big drill, and had to use the small one over 1 week. The big drill would have sunk into the soft soil here, and maybe upset. If they could have used the big drill, it'd have only taken a day, instead of a week.

    66. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still don't get why you should have the right to make the road trip if it's going to wreck the planet. Just because you were used to it being okay?

    67. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are also people in other countries, mind you.

    68. Re:WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Well.... yeah it is, its extracting the heat of the earth. That's why its 300% - 600% efficient. That heat comes from the earth.

    69. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rrmmm...what have you got on your side to counter the scientists...other than you do not wish to believe them?

      Cigarettes are healthy. That is why I trust Camel filtered cigarettes.

      Global warming is our fault. That is why you should buy alternative energy systems.

      If the solution wasn't to buy. Buy! BUY!, people might be more inclined to have a little faith.

    70. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, if YOU can come up with a REAL solution that the no-nuke crazies will accept, that DOESN'T involve CRASHING OUR ECONOMY or killing off 90% of the populace and forcing the remainder to live in caves and eat grass, knock yourself out!

      Ruling these options out is part of the problem, not the solution.

    71. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 1

      That must be some good shit you're smokin'...

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    72. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China has a huge population and territory, they need power to heat their homes, refrigerate their food, ect. Your comment is entirely ignorant.

    73. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US is still a very young country. The western hemisphere is very young so I think the eastern hemisphere needs to minimize while we maximize. We are all very grateful for your sacrifice.

    74. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He doesn't have the right to freely travel? Meanwhile, the UN is declaring that human migration is a human right.

      You are fucked up and the reason why I stopped caring about climate alarmism. If you can't come up with a solution that doesn't impede my rights then I don't care about your solution or problems.

    75. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, but the US is growing! Our population is outpacing Europe's so it is you who is being ignorant, and a bit racist. Why would you not want us to grow unless you are a closet bigot?

    76. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While yes, there are some who live in the big cities who don't need to own a SUV, here in farm land, SUVs and trucks are a must. Does that mean we are "assholes" too? The US isn't made up of just big cities but a variety of environments where town might be up to an hour away. Half of my town's roads are dirt and trying to drive a small car in the spring and winter months when the weather gets bad is just plain foolish. There is only one main road in and out of town and it has been shutdown due to weather on several occasions. So the only way out of town is back roads where little cars are stupidly useless. Thankfully besides having several smaller cars in the family, I also own a Chevy Silverado 2500 HD 4X4 when I have need of it.

      There are many countries where a truck or SUV is the only method of getting around outside of the big cities because the roads are difficult or unpaved but I don't see you complaining about those people using such vehicles. Thankfully in the US we still have the freedoms to drive what we want instead of having someone like you tell us what is acceptable based on some arrogant notion of superiority.

      Like it or not, fossil fuels are not going any where for a long, long time. Without the need of the Paris Accords, the US has been doing a better job of reducing pollution than Europe. We continue to roll out renewable sources of energy such as solar and wind. There are a lot of wind farms where I live and more constantly going up. There have been mark improvements to even in the tech used in SUVs and trucks making them much more efficient yet I don't see anyone mentioning those changes. But go ahead and keep trying to blame the US for everything because poor little innocent countries like China and India are just too far behind us to really make improvements (total BS).

      -Geekpoet

    77. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 1

      Your other option, depending on if you have enough land, is to go with a buried "field" 6-10 feet down.

      But excavation for something like that would likely have cost every bit as much...

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    78. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toyota, Honda, and Tesla will pick up the slack where the ignorant legacy American automakers leave off. Fuck Ford and GM, hope they both end up bankrupt, dead, and buried in the next recession.

    79. Re:WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Yep, and since I wanted to have some land unmolested in order to sink foundations for big ham radio towers, I chose to use wells rather than a field of coiled tubes.

    80. Re:WTF USA? by matthewd · · Score: 1

      The summary cites 2018 for the growth figures, and as 2018 is not over, perhaps these are simply estimates. Perhaps this is a little misleading?

      I have repeatedly read that CO2 emmissions in the U.S. have been declining in the past few years due to natural gas and the increased use of renewable power displacing coal for electricity generation. If you click through to the PDF on the Key Statistics (page 27) the U.S. shows negative growth for 2016-17. Why it would suddenly swing to an increase is beyond me.

    81. Re: WTF USA? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      It isn't about us necessarily being an asshole, but conditions in our lives that direct us to make such decisions. US/CAD we have strict rules when we are late for work.

      What conditions prevent you from leaving earlier?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    82. Re:WTF USA? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      We quite simply CANNOT implement enough solar or wind power. Nor could we build lesser capacities and back it with batteries. The quantities required simply aren't feasible.

      Really? How much of electrical power demand is perfectly inelastic, and what is stopping the market from building enough storage to satisfy that demand?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    83. Re: WTF USA? by slash.jit · · Score: 1

      Really.. I guess you haven't seen the strict work rules in Germany or Switzerland!

    84. Re:WTF USA? by slash.jit · · Score: 1

      ya and the earth breathes all the cancer causing sun light.. no wonder we have so much cancer in the world. We need to build a big umbrella for the entire earth.

    85. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If business leaders were forced to included the cost of CO2 sequestration into the cost of a coal or natural gas powerplant, they would end up choosing a different form of power generation like nuclear, solar, or wind since they would all become less expensive than fossil fuels.

      The ONLY reason they keep building fossil fuel plants is because it is cheap since they get off scot free on the CO2 costs

    86. Re:WTF USA? by slash.jit · · Score: 1

      exactly.. all humans emit CO2 also!

    87. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $6000 EV charger? What kind of EV charger do you have? A Telsa wall connector only runs $500. Or is that factoring in installation and materials cost as well? I know there are more expensive charging units that have various layers of charge monitoring and whatnot; but nothing I've seen for residential use that's as expensive as $6,000. Unless you are using something that does direct DC charging? Or was that cost tongue in cheek(because all the other numbers seemed plausible to me)?

    88. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just the equipment. It's laying the fields / drilling the wells for the loops and all the labor.

      It adds up fast.

      Plus the political payoffs, tax subsidies, and non-profits lawsuit payouts - don't forget about those either.

    89. Re: WTF USA? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      There are also people in other countries, mind you.

      Correct. The difference however is that they don't claim that it doesn't care how much fossil fuel you use because it's all just a hoax anyway.

      Others use it but they know it's a problem and hence are willing to make changes whereas Trump conveniently denies it's a thing to help his friends.

    90. Re: WTF USA? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Well if it's any help I'm 39 and kinda have figured I can't really afford a car so I haven't had one =P
      Vegan since 20+ years and live in an apartment without useful life so I don't use public transport and it's heated mostly by burning forest products. The electricity is mostly hydro power and nuclear. Also as 39 year old virgin maybe my offspring won't dent things either. Though I wish they did ;D

    91. Re:WTF USA? by rastos1 · · Score: 2

      And it's very EASY to sit back in a country like Germany (with a total area of 138K square miles) and preach about "what ought to be done" in a country like the US (with a total area of 3.7 MILLION square miles). Because hey, logistics is EASY, right?

      But nobody is expecting US to cover all 3.7E6 square miles. How about you cover 13 most densely populated states. The is going to cover area of size of Germany with more population than has Germany. Deal?

    92. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2.8% of the total US emissions was attributed to Donald Trump's hair.

    93. Re: WTF USA? by AnonyMouseCowWard · · Score: 2

      But... life isn't different in other countries. In most countries you can't be late to work without facing consequences, and you work the same hours, and you also need to eat and have coffee. None of that requires an SUV, disposable coffee cups, plastic bottles for yogurt, etc. And the importance of a job on your social status is pretty universal as well (especially in Asian countries).

      The difference is just... money, mostly. You could wake up earlier, make your own coffee and breakfast (which would be cheaper), and drive a smaller car. You choose not to, because you can afford not to. You can exchange money for convenience. Let's face it, people don't really care about the environment, not if it demands them to make different, inconvenient choices. Why do you think China's emissions are going up? Because they're getting richer, producing more, consuming more. That's all. Chinese people used to recycle paper and aluminium 50 years ago, before it was a thing in the West. Why? Because they could sell old newspapers by the pound to a guy that would sell it to a facility that would produce "new" paper cheaper with the old newspapers. Now, there's actually less recycling, because that amount of money is inconsequential. The US and Canada are just way past that... a minority of people choose to actively care and modify their behavior for the environment; most people don't, and yes that's because we're all assholes (not just in the US or Canada) and we can afford to.

    94. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Hey, if you work someplace that doesn't give a shit when you wander in the door, more power to you.

      One of the reasons I learned programming in the first place is so it doesn't matter when in the day I work, so indeed, I work someplace that doesn't give a shit when I wander in the door. If they started giving a shit I'd quit on the spot.

      >Just don't bitch when you're replaced by automation, because it's more reliable.

      Good luck with that. Automation can't even drive cars, you want it to design programs?

      I don't get what happened to slashdot. In the old days here were programmers and other intelligentsia which knew that work output and time shouldn't be related.

    95. Re: WTF USA? by eneville · · Score: 1

      What's stopping you doing that on a touring road push bike? Would be a lot more fun.

    96. Re:WTF USA? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I wrap myself in tinfoil to protect against that.

      Maybe you should try educating yourself instead.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    97. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #OrangeManBad

    98. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 1

      At this point, the need for baseload capacity is down about 10% from what it was in the 80's as power companies have become more adept at meeting demand on the fly.
      Industry experts think it can be reduced further.
      To what minimum? I dunno.
      However, you can't simply ELIMINATE baseload power generation.

      The main problem with solar and wind are the land use requirements. Solar and wind farms are HUGE compared to conventional powerplants, especially nuclear plants (power density).

      Granted, wind farms can be dual-use. But not solar.

      Also take into account the immediate ECOLOGICAL impact of covering an area in solar panels.

      There's also the fact that you can't simply plop a solar or wind farm down ANYWHERE.

      Plus, part of what I was talking about are PRODUCTION issues.

      Currently, manufacturers are incapable of building the required AMOUNT of panels, wind turbines and/or battery storage required to replace the US' power infrastructure. And sure, in time, production can ramp up to meet it.

      Assuming China's willing to destroy it's ecology with the amount of mining required. Plus all the mining and transport-based pollution involved.

      Oh yes. And how do we DISPOSE of these things at end-of-life? Gigatons of landfill?

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    99. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh so when other countries do it it's ok?

    100. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 1

      And where is the land or this going to come from?
      Remember, the 13 most densely populated states generally aren't going to be the states best suited for mass implementation of solar/wind farms across the board.

      Remember, 18% of power generated in the US is "renewable".
      The majority of that is hydro, biomass (burning shit, and biofuel (more burning shit).
      Wind is a big player. But wind power is still highly situational. You don't install wind turbines in areas that don't produce wind to the necessary criteria.

      Solar accounts for approximately 1% of ALL power generation in the US (about 5.5-6% of all renewable).

      Over time, yes, it will grow.
      But if you think you're simply going to paper over a couple states with panels, ESPECIALLY in a timeline not measured in DECADES? You're hallucinating.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    101. Re:WTF USA? by Solandri · · Score: 1
      That's a common error made by people who don't understand opportunity cost. Unless you installed those panels specifically because you bought the Tesla, your Tesla is being charged from the grid, not the panels. The Tesla represents an increase in your electricity consumption. And if the panel installation is not coincidental with the Tesla purchase to offset that increase in electricity consumption, you're getting that extra electricity to charge your Tesla from the grid.
      • Before your Tesla: Your panels provided power for your home. You got zero power from the grid.
      • After your Tesla: Your panels continue to provide power for your home. The energy to charge your Tesla comes from the grid.

      The only way the panels can truly power the Tesla is if you installed the panels specifically to charge the Tesla.

      • Before your Tesla. You had no panels. Your home got power from the grid.
      • After your Tesla. Your home is still powered from the grid. The panels you installed charge your Tesla.

      If you don't properly account for opportunity cost in this way, you could hook up a 12V battery and claim it powers your entire house. When you look at your TV's power consumption, you say it's powered by the 12V battery, everything else is powered by the grid. If you consider your electric heater's power consumption, you say it's powered by the 12V battery, everything else is powered by the grid. If you consider your electric oven's power consumption, you say it's powered by the 12V battery, everything else is powered by the grid. And so on for every electrical device in your house. And by ignoring opportunity cost this way, you can erroneously claim everything in your home is powered by a single 12V battery.

      This is why I keep stressing that converting energy sources away from fossil fuels is much more important than switching energy consumption to electric. If you just convert a bunch of devices to electric, that increases the electrical load on the grid. And the power companies are probably going to respond to that by building more coal and gas plants since renewables are yet unable to cope with base load, and environmentalists are blocking nuclear at every opportunity.

    102. Re: WTF USA? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      How many coal plants are they closing?

      Hint: It's more than they are building.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    103. Re:WTF USA? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      However, you can't simply ELIMINATE baseload power generation....Plus, part of what I was talking about are PRODUCTION issues.

      Really? How much of that demand is perfectly inelastic, and what prevents the market from satisfying that demand?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    104. Re: WTF USA? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Many places have flexible working hours in Europe.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    105. Re:WTF USA? by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 1

      Currently, manufacturers are incapable of building the required AMOUNT of panels, wind turbines and/or battery storage required to replace the US' power infrastructure.

      Honestly I'd be interested in seeing the US government go in for a project that's the level of scale like the Hoover Dam based around home grown solar manufacturing and battery production. Say 500 acres to start somewhere that gets heavy solar intensity throughout the year. If that's too small, then go to 1,000 and so on.

      Once business ramp up to meet that kind of demand, they'll be able to easily support the rest of the US.

    106. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what changes are being made in third world countries where the roads are total crap and you have to get around by Unimog or SUVs/ trucks? They don't have the cash to pave all their roads but I'm sure just taxing the US and letting the UN distribute the money works really well to resolve the issue. But again just blame the US because why not.

      -geekpoet

    107. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and Im also in the 5% thats making all the money faggot.

    108. Re:WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      If you paid 30K for geo-thermal on a new home, then you got massively ripped off. Should be less than 20K in ALL parts of America and in most, should be below 15K.
      If a used home and you added if afterwards, then right now, 30K is about average. Dandelion Geo-thermal will make it cheap, but they are not everywhere. yet.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    109. Re:WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      actually, the horizontal on a NEW home should be reasonable. BUT, when doing a used home, well, I am surprised they did 3 wells down to 200'. The ones I have talked to are switching to 5-7 wells fanned out from a central point, and just 50-100' at most. By fanning it out, they get more heat from the ground and into the ground. Of course,our aquifers are down around 500', so.....

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    110. Re:WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      wrong subject. We are talking about geothermal HVAC, not GOP.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    111. Re:WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      nice thing about geo-thermal is that come summer, and you hit a 100+F(40+C) day, AC burns massive amounts of energy no matter how efficient. BUT, geo-thermal, runs no harder than it does fall/spring. It is so easy to push that heat down to cold ground temps.

      I will say that I think that putting a small air condenser on the north side of the house and dumping the ground heat at night, could reduce electricity, though I do not know for certain.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    112. Re:WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 1
      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    113. Re:WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      really? So batteries are cheaper than peaker plants and therefore are being put in without a state gov ordering it, AND without tax breaks? Yeah. Exactly. Once wind/batteries/solar becomes cheaper than nat gas, they will replace it. Until then, Nat Gas will continue to be used.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    114. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If China needed that power, then why are their coal plants running at 50-60% and still providing 70-80% of their power?
      Think before you post.

    115. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WRT these plants? None. In fact, most of these are additional plants being added to current newer ones.
      So, why would they open up 2-4 new coal burning plant of the same type on same land, only to close an Identical 1-2 that is right next to it?

      Please read up on this before commenting. China is NOT replacing any coal plants with this 250 GW. There is another 50GW/year of coal plants being built that China continues to build, and admits to, which MIGHT be replacing older ones. Hard to tell. But, the 250+GW are plants that Chinese gov said were not being built, which they lied, and you have been spreading that lie.

    116. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a sad pathetic life.

    117. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like another butt hurt asshole who only took college algebra. Hows that student debt treating you princess?

    118. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Freeman Dyson has no expertise in climatology, and unlike a practicing climatologist, does not know enough about the field to judge the effectiveness of climate models.

      Fact is, the (relatively basic) models from the 1970s predicted clearly that temperatures would keep going up, and the string of new records in the last 20 years shows clearly that's what they've done. Sea levels were predicted to rise further, and they have if anything exceeded those predictions. By contrast, deniers have been predicting temperature *drops* for the last dozen years - and have been wrong every time. It's abundantly clear whose models are trustworthy, and whose aren't.

    119. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 2

      We already have solar farms larger than that. The largest solar farm on the planet is currently over 13,000 acres (53 square kilometers).
      And it's nameplate output is 2GW.

      The world's largest multi-reactor nuclear plant is above 8GW. And it provides that in just over 1000 acres.
      The US grid needs around 1000 GW total capacity to maintain a stable service environment at absolute peak demand.

      Solar PV farms weigh in at about $750,000-1,000,000 per MW.

      That's without any sort of storage whatsoever. And, even with storage, you can't directly compare it to a baseload setup. Because solar doesn't generate 24x7. Meaning, if you have storage (batteries, pumped hydro storage, flywheels, etc, you still need 2-4x as much total capacity for coverage.

      So. Assume a mean of 3x.

      3000GW
      3 TRILLION dollars for a zero-storage solar PV input that could, conceivably, handle the US grid.

      And, in 30 years or so, another few trillion to expand the site as the older panels age out.
      Assuming zero breakage for the entire period.

      Now, where's the BEST place to implement things like this? What? The American Southwest? Lotsa sun, seldom snows, few rainy days?
      Now, how do you get all that power to the rest of the country?
      Oh. The grid. But, ramping it up to be able to push power from one end of the country to the other? You get big conversion losses and big transmission losses.
      This is why it's more economical to build generation closer to the points of consumption.
      How do you deal with that? MORE CAPACITY! Tack 50% more on to cover that stuff.

      Now we get to re-engineer all the geographic grids into a true national grid!
      Who pays for that?

      And sure, the renegade little fantasy of everyone having their own solar setup on their home is cute.
      But we know there are people who can't afford that.
      And we know that grid providers can't survive/provide service on nothing but connection fees and backhaul fees.
      So how does industry get by? Mom & pop businesses?

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    120. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe all road trips should be done on a motorcycle. Much more fun and less CO2.

    121. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good for you. Diesels put out less CO2 because they are more efficient than gas engines.

    122. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US does not have nuclear, like the regressive in Europe, our regressive are working on dismantling all nuclear power plants in the US. By 2022 Califonia will have no nuclear power plants. The politicians in the US who say they believe in climate change only believe in the part that justifies taxing industry out of existence.
      The good news is I read Scientific American and it turns out there are volcanoes underneath Antartica so it doesn't really matter maybe we shouldn't have built so many cities in drained swamps.

    123. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your job title is also important in Europe

    124. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I met this single MILF with her friend at an outdoor gathering. We had a few drinks, I was no longer married (unofficially), she went on about her 17 year old, blah blah blah. Didn't matter at my age. I ended up banging the fuck out her.

      Dude, at that age, older women don't hold back. I was starting to worry if she'd suck my cock raw, and I was dry for the night. Life can be so unfair at times.

    125. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only way I would ride a bike or a motorbike in the states would be in a protected lane. As the drivers there are not used to sharing the road and some actually try to hit cyclists or force them off the road. I would also be happy yto take trains if they could actually get to most places. I am working in China now and the train system here is fantastic. The drivers here are idiots but they arent trying to hit me on my bicycle. I hope things have changed by the time I come home...

    126. Re:WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Retro to old house.

    127. Re: WTF USA? by eneville · · Score: 1

      This guy manages, so can you https://www.youtube.com/watch?...!

    128. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't actually have any rights. You will continue to learn this the more inhospitable your environment becomes.

    129. Re:WTF USA? by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      And where is the land or this going to come from?

      So first you say there is too much land in US and now you say there is not enough space? I guess the land has to come from the same place where Germany gets it from.

      But if you think you're simply going to paper over a couple states with panels, ESPECIALLY in a timeline not measured in DECADES? You're hallucinating.

      When I say to my boss "it's too much work and it is going to take long time" the canonical answer is "so why are you still standing here? you better hurry up and start working on it!".

    130. Re:WTF USA? by Chas · · Score: 1

      No. I'm saying that the US isn't some homogeneously laid out quilt with nice, easily designated areas for stuff like this.
      While there's lots of space in the US, you can't simply drop these facilities down ANYWHERE.
      And the places where you it makes SENSE to drop them have generally have other competing claims on usage.

      Also, there are environmental/ecological concerns about large solar emplacements. Just as there are concerns about ecological problems with wind emplacements too.

      As for your second question.

      Primarily because you're proposing to artificially inflate and favor a particular solution in a way that will drive costs WAY up.
      Never mind that it isn't, provably, the best solution overall.
      Not to mention, because of the protracted time scale, it's not going to "solve" the problem of carbon emissions before hitting the feared "tipping point".

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    131. Re: WTF USA? by knewter · · Score: 1

      Baby seats are inconvenient though.

      --
      -knewter
    132. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I went through maybe 100 posts before finding someone with critical thinking skills that referenced the article itself. Bravo.

    133. Re:WTF USA? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Some sunscreen would do ;-)

    134. Re: WTF USA? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Ouch. Expensive. I have to admit, that is what I want to do once prices drop. I've been writing various politicians and pushing them to require onsite unsubsided AE, => HVAC energy. By doing that, developers will likely work to avoid high panel costs. So, they will switch to led lights, then add better insulation, and finally, will switch to geothermal HVAC as price drops/customer demands. This is a win all around.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    135. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha... Holy shit you actually believe this...

      They signed up for the Paris Accord because it literally promised them billions of dollars for "fighting climate change".

      They don't give a shit about worshipping your Weather God, you fucking imbecile. They are laughing all the way to the bank over your stupidity and cultural suicide.

    136. Re: WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone wants clean air and water.

      Carbon does not pollute air and water.

      You are purposefully conflating.

    137. Re: WTF USA? by AnonyMouseCowWard · · Score: 1

      And many places have flexible hours in the US.

      By the way, interesting article today that kind of adds to my point by saying not only can we afford it, the US is also unique in its consumption because of how much we value instant gratification.

    138. Re: WTF USA? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Thankfully they don't have much money period so they don't drive around as much and don't buy as much items so ..

      I didn't blamed the US. I blamed Trump on this one. Since he's chosen to be a denier of man made climate change, don't know whatever he believe the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere are man-made or not either.

      Just like our Swedish government, the EU parliament or Juncker represent me, the Swedes or the Europeans I won't say Trumps idea about this is that of all of the Americans or even the majority of them. I know a guy who live here who also don't believe in it but he's stupid in general and for instance don't believe that Nazi-Germans gased Jews either.

      A bunch of people are stupid. I don't think Trump are stupid though. I just think he's being dishonest because of either direct gains for himself by supporting those who have an economic gains from continued usage of fossil fuels or at-least because of that's where some of the voters and support for the republicans are. Maybe a priority of American economy / growth now vs world cost / impact later. The impact are global after all while the gains are national or even private.

      I don't think politicians will make the greatest choices and solutions but on the other hand as the situation is at the moment you can't expect the market to fix stuff like pollution, natural resource usage or destruction of the environment and climate simply because a price haven't been put on those things. I assume it's economically stupid to destroy the climate but as long as destroying it doesn't have a cost for doing so and others / something else will have to go in and pay for fixing it / pay the consequences the system won't solve it by itself. The problem is the lack of fee on releasing fossil CO2 into the atmosphere for instance. Similarly AFAIK the fee for mining minerals here in Sweden is 0.1% of the value of them which is pretty low and hence you don't really need to be able to gain much from doing so for actually wanting to do so. If all such property was privately owned maybe one would ask for more in return and hence it wouldn't happen but I also don't expect private ownership of something like a stone quarry to really protect the stone because while the damage will last for thousands - many millions of years the person living there may not plan in those time scales and not really care because that person will be dead since very long then. Anyway with a high enough fee on CO2 release it would no longer be interesting to release it and the market would find some other solution. The problem is that it's free to destroy it. I've read about gold mining in the jungle in south America too where those doing so may use mercury to gather the gold because that's cheap for them and work but if you really try to clean up mercury you spend more money than what the gold will be worth anyway. The problem there is that that person will never have to pay for cleaning it up. It's free to pour it out into the environment. So the price on the market is wrong and hence the market doesn't fix the problem by itself. In a world where everything was privately owned if you could sue / demand money from the person who released CO2 and actually be compensated then the system might had worked. As that's not the case there just need to be a high enough price on releasing it so that it's not done, or at-least as high / higher than the cost would be of capturing it and storing it away one way or the other again. But the market likely would have better solutions than random politician had the price actually been correct.

    139. Re: WTF USA? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      So, the reason this country I'm living in (Sweden) and so many others signed it is because we'll get paid?

      That's highly unlikely. The most likely scenario if anything is that we'll be among the ones who pay others the most to help them do it too, while also doing it ourselves.

      I guess there's some way to see how much money Sweden vs USA grant shit-hole countries in support.

    140. Re:WTF USA? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Meaning, if you have storage (batteries, pumped hydro storage, flywheels, etc, you still need 2-4x as much total capacity for coverage.

      For the third time, you can you support that claim? Do you understand what "price elasticity of demand" means? Do you even know how to read a demand curve?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    141. Re:WTF USA? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Uh... wind produces CO2 as well. How? Its in the cement production for the massive foundations for those wind turbine towers. Many many cubic yards of cement for each one, and each cubic yard of cement produces 350 lbs of CO2:

      http://greenblizzard.com/2016/...

      When you search for the cubic yards of concrete in a wind turbine foundation, you get:

      "The construction of 15- to 20-foot-deep concrete foundations to support all of the 328-foot-high towers with 2-MW turbines required 30,000 tons of cement. On average, each of these below-ground support systems used 60 truckloads of concrete (750 cubic yards), which was poured via a two-step process."

      Soooo... wind turbines release a load of CO2 as well, during construction.

      The article mentions a 2 MW turbine. The consumption of electricity in the USA is as much as:

      From another google search:

      3.82 X 10^15 Watt-Hours for all of 2017 for USA. Hours in the year are 24X365 = 8760. So 38,200X10^11 Watt-Hours / 8760 hours = 4.36 X 10^11 Watts = 4.36X10^8 Kw average. That's 436,000,000 Kw, or 436,000 Megawatts. If we're doing it with just 2 Mw wind turbines, then that's 218,000 wind turbines. Of course it takes a lot more wind turbines because they don't produce 100% of the time because the wind doesn't blow 100% of the time. Double that back to 436,000 wind turbines in order to ensure availability.

      Anyway, that's a staggering amount of concrete and a lot of CO2 to build them. Does the concrete last forever? Can we just keep renewing the bearings of the wind turbine and run them forever on the same foundation. I don't know. But wind isn't CO2 neutral.

    142. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sigh. no memory of history, doomed to repeat it and all that.

      you think cheap transportation will change things? nope. electric cars are everywhere here in CA. employers are starting to offer FREE ELECTRICITY to their employees who have EV's. soon, the state government will most likely get on board and offer free, socialized electricity (oh noes! i heard socialism was bad in a civics class i took in 8th grade, and because i have no concept of how one word can change over time, i assume it must still be bad! ). just wait until you see people freak out at that idea. because god knows, free public water at water fountains turned out to spell the end of the world. anyway....

      USA is not going to embrace green energy any time soon. why? two words: Big Oil. this is simple politics. a huge number of fabulously rich people (who have been enjoying their power for MANY years) make money from oil. he who has the gold makes the rules. they are the same people who first put forward the false narrative about how climate change was a conspiracy, simply because it was directly at odds with their bread and butter.

      so here's how it plays out: USA moves slowly, painfully, towards green energy. all the time, the educated people will be fighting the false narrative to no avail. eventually, tesla cars and EV stations become trendy and mainstream and eventually Big Oil either changes gears and BECOMES Big Green, or they go away like Blockbuster and coffee houses that serve 50 cent coffee and mom-and-pop hardware stores.

      but here's the thing that will NOT happen: Americans reading brilliant comments on slashdot about how bad our carbon emissions are, and then suddenly electing only politicians who support green energy.

      so please stop expecting us to do the right thing. we are stupid, lazy, and pride ourselves in avoiding whatever the "progressive" countries in Europe do (no matter how long they live, how happy they are, or how high their standard of living).

      so many rants.

    143. Re:WTF USA? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      China and India are in their "growing years" so I can understand.

      Oi vey. You DO understand that you can't simply "forgive" carbon emissions simply based on "they're growing/modernizing" right?

      or radionuclides

      The main problem is the activist/regulatory environment here.
      Due to poliicies enacted because of the positively PSYCHOTIC "no nuclear" lobby, the chances of implementing nuclear power in the US is virtually zero.

      Had you read any of the laws that pertain to the placement of nuclear facilities you would find they specifically exclude the general population from having any influence on where nuclear facilities are situated.

      Specifically this is the function of the NRC and the DOE. Nuclear is a funding mechanism for the oil and coal industry. You can find that information in the 2005 US Energy Policy Act SEC 600 onwards.

      We quite simply CANNOT implement enough solar or wind power. Nor could we build lesser capacities and back it with batteries. The quantities required simply aren't feasible.

      There is *terrawatts* of wind power available in the US.

      And it's very EASY to sit back in a country like Germany (with a total area of 138K square miles) and preach about "what ought to be done" in a country like the US (with a total area of 3.7 MILLION square miles). Because hey, logistics is EASY, right? EVERY country on the planet has had a couple millennia to evenly distribute it's population throughout its' borders, right?

      Or employ people to build the infrastructure. Change implies change.

      Now, if YOU can come up with a REAL solution that the no-nuke crazies will accept, that DOESN'T involve CRASHING OUR ECONOMY or killing off 90% of the populace and forcing the remainder to live in caves and eat grass, knock yourself out!

      Ridiculous over emotional claptrap.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    144. Re: WTF USA? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Every nuclear plant will have to close I'm afraid, they can't afford their own meltdown insurance. Coal is obviously gone, gas might survive.

      I think that converting the nuclear infrastructure to gas would mean you can still partially get a return on the capital investment on the infrastructure whilst providing a profit motivation to look after the spent fuel that remains on site.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    145. Re:WTF USA? by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      "The world's largest multi-reactor nuclear plant is above 8GW. And it provides that in just over 1000 acres."

      Mostly out of curiosity, does that include the mines supplying the fuel?

    146. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of Germany is further north than Ottawa. Germany is as densely populated as Massachusetts, but the population is not evenly spread, just like the population of Massachusetts. Small to medium solar installations (<100 kWp) make up more than half of the installed solar capacity in Germany. Those are typically on-roof systems. If Germany can do it, you can too. You just don't want to do it.

    147. Re:WTF USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My parents didn't like the monthly shock of a heating fuel bill so they set up some kind of contract where they spread out the cost over the year. Basically they are paying ahead in the summer and in the winter the costs come out of that fund. Every fuel supplier I've seen have some kind of discount for getting a contract even if they have to be called out to do a one time fill up. If there is a contract then they can plan ahead better and buy on the market at cheaper rates and they pass that on to the customer.

      I can't say "you are doing it wrong" because I don't have enough information. Maybe you figured out the best pricing on your own. I'm just confused on how you can call this oil bill a "shock" when you have seen it happen every winter for years.

    148. Re:WTF USA? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, a wrong wikipedia article ... what a surprise.
      A mere heat pump is not "geothermal" there is no noticeable thermal source 1yard or 10yards below the ground.

      A heat pump is a heat pump and geo thermal means you pump up +100C degrees hot water/steam up and run a turbine or do large scale heating projects.

      Of course you can disagree, but then you have a hard problem in arguing about energy when a mere 300W heat pump for heating your house is the same as a 500MW geo thermal electric power plant.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  2. Global Stupidity by prefec2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Global stupidity seems a constant factor on this planet. In some social groups denial of reality is most prominent, because reality challenges their believe and there behavior.

    1. Re:Global Stupidity by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Global stupidity seems a constant factor on this planet. In some social groups denial of reality is most prominent, because reality challenges their believe and there behavior.

      This is an example: https://www.greenpeace.org/usa...

      So after a brief pause gained from a move from coal to gas in major countries, the upward march of carbon resumes.

    2. Re:Global Stupidity by tsa · · Score: 2

      We have one or two gas powered electricity plants here in the Netherlands that are switched off because coal is cheaper. And we recently (5 years ago or so) switched on a brand new coal powered one.
      Our government keeps telling us that we are the greenest country in Europe and soon we will be world-leading, but reality tells us we do worse than the US.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    3. Re:Global Stupidity by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually no, it's not due to a lack of nuclear power. Coal use isn't even increasing, it's decreasing because gas and renewables are cheaper. Even Japan didn't jump up that much after the force 100% nuclear shutdown, only around 10%: https://ycharts.com/indicators...

      The reason we are seeing this increase now is twofold.

      1. Some countries are still on the upward part of the curve, e.g. China. Expecting them to immediately start reductions would be insane, it would destroy their economy. But they are on track for their Paris target, which is aggressive to say the least.

      2. Many developed countries are finally recovered from the 2008 financial crash that caused an exceptional fall in emissions due to reduced economic activity. I'm sure someone will start screaming about European emissions increasing any moment now, but in reality they are falling as planned if it were not for that artificial depression.

      The problem with nuclear is that it's way too expensive for what it provides. There is simply no way to justify spending money on it would be much better spent on renewables. Spending on renewables will have a much greater effect on emissions per Euro/Dollar/Yuan spent, and will lessen the economic impact of making the change.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Global Stupidity by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Global stupidity seems a constant factor on this planet. In some social groups denial of reality is most prominent, because reality challenges their believe and there behavior.

      Some people don't even know what reality is.

      Proof: I've seen "Reality TV" shows.

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re: Global Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great, glad to see you are not one of the stupid ones? So, when are we going to start looking at magnetic field anomalies and their strong corliation with climate change? Thus far we have ignored them, even though the data shows that they may be the only currently provable factor in climate change. I'm not saying that CO2 isn't a factor, just that magnetic field anomalies currently appear have a direct corilation, and that CO2 has yet to show itself as a predictor.

      If you really want to get technical. This is the worst time to be looking at the atmosphere for this kind of data. The sun is in an cycle where it appears to be emitting more solar radiation. The earth appears to be in the early stages of a magnetic pole shift, which leaves us with the weakest magnetic field in recorded history. (Our stongest shield from the sun. If you think the ozone protected us. There are estimations that Mars would be another Earth if it had a similar magnetic field.) The Earth is just now finally returning to its proper shape following the last ice age. Etc...

      Reducing emissions is a good thing, regrowing rain forrests and stopping deforestation is as well. But mass fear mongering is not. The reason that climate nay sayers have so much traction is because of such tactics. Use real science with hard data, ask for peer evaluation and independent reproduction of every study you see. Don't just accept what the media tells you, ask for the data. In most cases we paid for it with taxes anyway.

    6. Re:Global Stupidity by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 1

      The notions of groups, societies and countries are all made up and in the end each person usually thinks only about him/herself and maybe his/her close relatives. People usually couldn't care less about the long term prospects of human kind survival on the planet and life in general and unless we enact the laws which have very direct impact on each soul, AGW will continue unabated. Most people are very primitive and we have to take that into account. Failure to do so could lead to the end of our civilization. Life on Earth will remain but whether it will ever evolve to become intelligent again is an open question.

    7. Re:Global Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there are two major groups who are to blame here.

      First, there are the limousine liberals who want to foist the global warming dogma on everyone but themselves while they fly around on private jets and drive an armada of SUVs wherever they go.

      Second, there are the backwoods rednecks who all have oppositional defiance disorder and go out and roll coal all day long just to thumb their nose at the first group.

      Then, there are the rest of us reasonable, rational people who don't like spending $500/month on fuel, heat, and other forms of energy and reduce our consumption because it saves money. Unfortunately we are more and more outnumbered by the ruling class elite and the bottom of the barrel.

      Global Warming, I conclude, is the result of the elimination of the middle class.

    8. Re: Global Stupidity by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      Well, there are different causes in different locations. For example, America continues to drop coal and move to wind/Nat ga, in spite of trump. But our buying lower mpg cars is an issue. Thankfully, that is coming to a close as EVs sales rise.
      Then you have China and India. Both of these continue to lots of coal, but the real problem is that as they switch to EVs, they will use loads more coal to power them.
      Until society is willing to say no more fossil fuel electric plants, we will continue to get worse.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    9. Re:Global Stupidity by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Global stupidity seems a constant factor on this planet. In some social groups denial of reality is most prominent, because reality challenges their believe and there behavior.

      Classic example...

      "their believe" should be "their beliefs".

      "there behavior" should be "their behavior".

      The really appalling thing was that you got "their" right once, but managed to lose it within five words. Which tells me you got it right the one time by pure luck, which applies even to "global stupidity"....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re: Global Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes Greenpeace against nuclear power, because of a handful of nuclear disasters, ironically wildlife flourishes in the sites of nuclear disasters because humans move out, animals move in.

    11. Re: Global Stupidity by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      No, China stopping coal would NOT harm their economy. They ate ADDing, not replacing, another 250-300GW of new coal plants by end of 2020. That is just in China. They are adding another 250-300 GW in other nations. None of that is needed for economy. China is planning on selling coal to other nations, in essence, they are taking advantage of a loophole. If ppl like you were realistic and put pressure on China to stop adding coal plants, they would. BTW, China's coal plants which provide ~70-80% of electricity are ran at around 50-60 %. Iow, without adding any more coal plants ( just do replacement instead of adding ), they can increase electricity by some 50%, just with their current coal plants of 1.1 TW. And by end of 2020, they will have 1.36 TW. So not needed.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    12. Re: Global Stupidity by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      China hit peak coal years ago and has been in decline ever since:

      http://ieefa.org/ieefa-update-...
      https://www.brookings.edu/2018...

      The "new" capacity is replacing old plants with more efficient, cleaner ones. Same thing happened in Germany.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Global Stupidity by Chas · · Score: 1

      Hey, if you can convince our crazed "no nukes" lobby that they're in error, you'll see a slight bump in carbon emissions as we build new plants, followed by a long, sustained dropoff.

      Areas like California will still maintain higher emissions, mainly due to it being a Bad Idea to build nuclear reactors in quake country, but...

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    14. Re:Global Stupidity by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

      "Globally catching up to our standard of living" seems to be a constant factor on this planet. Corrected that for you.

      Yes, and in spite of the "Oh my God we are all going to die" narrative, I would happily bet money that life expectancies will continue to climb, globally, for a long time to come. Less people will live with food insecurity as each decade passes. More of the earth's population will have sanitation and clean drinking water. More places will have access to reliable energy. There is a long way to go, to be sure, but we have been making strides in these things for hundreds of years and they are not just going to stop or reverse anytime soon, despite every storm and every fire and every flood suddenly being all our fault.

      Your children, and your grandchildren, will almost certainly have better standards of living than you do. If that is not true then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with what you drive.

    15. Re: Global Stupidity by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Sigh.
      I have tried to tell you over this last year, that OCO2 is showing for the last 2 years that China's CO2 emissions was growing (and not shrinking like you claimed). Now, it is growing FAST.
      NOW, they were forced to admit to burning more coal. In fact, a minimum of 4.5% coal (it is likely to go higher next year when this group re-calculates 2018 for real).
      You can see that China's energy usage, esp. Coal, along with gas that is at least partially made from coal (unknown how much is from coal, but unless CHina is burying the CO2, it generates more than just burning it) is growing VERY fast.

      Then we see that China is ADDING ANOTHER 250-300 GW of COAL. Not replacing. This is ADDING. They are going on sites that have current coal and adding to them. Again, not replacing, but adding.
      FOr the last year, I have told you that they were expanding, but you continue to claim otherwise. Yet, here are private space photos that positively prove that what your Chinese gov claims is not even close to true. China is building and they are building MORE than what is being acknowledged.

      Now, you can continue to ignore the FACTS, and simply keep burying your head. But, I think that you have the same belief that I do, that all of the nations need to take responsibility and cut their emissions. And yes, China is more than developed enough to have them lower their emissions.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    16. Re:Global Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >their believe and there behavior

      Ironic.

    17. Re:Global Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      American here.. I really doubt you are worse than the US.

      You might have some coal fired plants, but overall the Netherlands has a fairly green lifestyle. You don't drive extended cab F350's 5 miles to the store like a lot of people here do. You bike, walk, whatever. Some places in the Netherlands have over 60% of all trips taken on bikes.

      I've been trying to get more people here to do that, but it is a real uphill battle.

      I admit I haven't studied the per-capita CO2 comparison, but I'd really be surprised if Netherlands was not much better than the US.

    18. Re:Global Stupidity by tsa · · Score: 1

      You're right, we are greener than the US in terms of CO2 exhaust per capita, but if you look at investment in green energy in €/$ per capita the US does better than we do. At least, that's what I keep hearing.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    19. Re: Global Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China builds many things, and not all are needed or used. As your own link says, the central government has issued go-slow or cancellation orders on many of those sites, because they're simply not needed. Coal plant utilisation (capacity factor) in China has dropped from 79% to under 50%, so building more would only make that worse, wasting money on plants that aren't going to be used. But provincial governments need to keep their citizens employed and paid, and their construction-based economy ticking over, so building continues.

      What's important isn't total plant capacity, it's coal burned. Coal plants don't emit CO2 if they're not burning coal. And coal usage has peaked years ago - it's not coming back.

    20. Re: Global Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SUVs and light trucks are both increasing more than EVs. stop the lies WindBourne.

  3. Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This proves that the world doesn't believe in the climate religion! We keep hearing about the coming apocalypse year after year and the only solution offered is to drastically increase taxes and make everything so expensive the average person can't live anywhere above the poverty level. Meanwhile, the "priests", if you wil," fly all over the world on their private jets and huge motorcades to lecture everyone else about driving their cars to their shitty jobs leaving their multiple huge homes empty consuming energy. The most vocal of them wants the heretic nonbelievers to be thrown in prison. It's a good thing the religion isn't in any significant power and all we have to see is a bunch of whining and hand wringing. Fuck the climate religion hoax and all the hypocrites who promote it.

    1. Re:Good! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      As a side note, is there still room on the spare planet you apparently have available?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't prove that people don't believe in the climate religion. It does imply; however, that most people think it is someone else's problem to solve and are unwilling to change their own lifestyle one bit.

    3. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not one of them. I hold my farts in.

    4. Re:Good! by RobinH · · Score: 1

      What is the poverty level and is it a real thing? It's only related to the other people around you. Someone making $15,000 a year is probably below the poverty level but they live better than kings of old.

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    5. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, how about you do everyone a big favor and feed your own worthless ass to some wild bears, you retarded piece of shit.

  4. Blaming others. by stooo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everybody blames the next guy.
    We are all responsible.

    --
    aaaaaaa
    1. Re:Blaming others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US leads the world in *reducing* its carbon emissions. Seems the summary misleads.

    2. Re: Blaming others. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      I'm just much less responsible.

    3. Re:Blaming others. by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      Yes, we are all responsible. However, some people want change, while others hinder change. Therefore, it is necessary to point that out and to try to understand why these people do not want to change. then we can develop narratives which allow them to change. So we all can address the issue.

    4. Re:Blaming others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Per capita, the US generates more than twice as much carbon as other developed nations. Reducing your carbon emissions should be easy, because you are already ridiculously dirty and inefficient as a nation.

    5. Re: Blaming others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. Also a free country gives free will.

      You cannot control people except through tyranny.

      You don't get it both ways. Take away free will and YOU will eventually fnd yourself forced to do something you don't want to do/agree with also.

    6. Re:Blaming others. by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Has nothing to do with inefficiencies. The US is the #2 manufacturing nation on the planet. You can guess what #1 is.

    7. Re:Blaming others. by rkordmaa · · Score: 0

      Depending on how you count it US is first or second per capita carbon emitter, not exactly a difficult position to cut down from, yet US still managed to increase emissions.

    8. Re: Blaming others. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      That's false. Canada, Australia both emit similar. In addition, a number of other nations are much higher. And if you want to argue that those nations are smaller, then we ate back to china's not only massive emissions, but constant growth in CO2, except when their economy takes a hit, like it did from 2014-2016.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    9. Re: Blaming others. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Again, spot-on. Politicians and businesses do not want to take responsibility for their actions. What is needed is for nations to tax all consumed good /services based on where worst part/service comes from. IOW reward those nations/states with best emissions, while slowly raising tax on bad nations/states, to encourage gov/utility to clean up, OR for businesses to not use that area.

      to make this work, need a fair precise means of looking CO2. That would be using satellites like OC2. With a few more SATs, we can see co2 moving in and out of a nation.
      to normalize, then emissions /GDP. The reason is that it hurts gov/businesses, and makes them move quicker. Keep in mind that it is businesses that make the choices, not individual buyers.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    10. Re:Blaming others. by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      Look at the size of the fucking nation asshole. Also look at the population you dumb fuck. Jesus fucking Christ dick head. You expect a nation of 30+ million people to produce the same small amount of carbon as nations 1/3rd it's size. Your a fucking idiot

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    11. Re: Blaming others. by Chas · · Score: 0

      BINGO!

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    12. Re:Blaming others. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Per capita, the US generates more than twice as much carbon as other developed nations.

      How that was marked informative, I don't know - because it's a lie. Australia and Canada are neck-and-neck with the US when it comes to CO2 per capita. Or do you mean they are not developed nations?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    13. Re: Blaming others. by Quantum+gravity · · Score: 1
      Depends on what countries you compare. See wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Emission per capita (t) in 2015:
      • US: 16.1
      • Canada: 15.5
      • Japan: 9.9
      • Germany: 9.6
      • EU: 6.9
      • UK: 6.2
      • Italy: 5.9
      • France: 5.1

      The countries with higher emissions per capita than the US in the list are: Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Australia, UAE, Turkmenistan, Oman

    14. Re: Blaming others. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Caffineted Bacon said "Per capita, the US generates more than twice as much carbon as other developed nations."
      What I wrote was 100% correct. Australia is higher while Canada is about the same. So Caffeinated Bacon did his usual lie. Fact is, America was down to 15 last year (apparently, we will go up this year to about 15.8 or so).
      And Quant, IIRC, you are from Australia. No?

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    15. Re: Blaming others. by Quantum+gravity · · Score: 1

      USA is the country that reduced carbon emissions the most in 2017, 0.5%. The reason for the reduction is that the USA is moving away from coal to natural gas (decreased in 2017 though), wind and solar. And sadly EU increased about same amount that USA reduced emissions 2017 in tons. Everyone who wants to can do their own comparison of emissions by various countries.

    16. Re: Blaming others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they will see that per person America is twice as polluting as Europe and twice as polluting as China. about 8x India etc. Americans are among the worst of the worst.

    17. Re: Blaming others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Per capita, the US/Canada/Australia generate more than twice as much carbon as other developed nations. Reducing your carbon emissions should be easy, because you are already ridiculously dirty and inefficient as a nation.

      Fixed it so WindBournen can understand.

      What's your excuse this time? She started it? She hit you first? Are you 12?

    18. Re: Blaming others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not false. You are trying to add in an 'all' There are many developed nations, and America emits more than twice the per capita CO2 than most of them.

      You are trying to pull a fast one and not read what was written. Common lair tactic of yours. Put words into peoples mouth and claim they are wrong.

  5. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by stooo · · Score: 1

    You ARE a hoax.

    --
    aaaaaaa
  6. Science by stooo · · Score: 1

    Yeah. It's this newfangled religion called "Science"
    Who believes this kind of nonsense ?

    --
    aaaaaaa
    1. Re:Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, there's as much valid science as Scientology.

    2. Re:Science by Zocalo · · Score: 1

      The "Science" is working exactly as it is supposed to; scientists are putting out data and (mostly) testable theories, other scientists are either repeating and re-inforcing the results, building upon and refining them, or debunking them (which also advances science as a whole). The nonsense here (and elsewhere, Climate is the only field with the problem) isn't the science, which is pretty much settled in terms of the overall direction and is mostly just quibbling over the velocity of the change and how the various contributing factors are sized and apportioned at this this point. The nonsense is two-fold; the overly hysterical politicalisation/reporting of it, including by some of the scientists looking to fluff their egos/push agendas, and those that can't understand the difference between the two but repeat the propaganda anyway.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    3. Re:Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Science is working as it's supposed to. The Scientists scream bloody murder and the politicians give them grant money to prove their falsehoods. The spin doctors then doctor the data to keep their money stream coming! Anyone who tries to show the truth is shamed, called an denier, fired and will never work in this town again. Be a denier at your peril! Yeah, that's how science is supposed to work. "Settled?" Yeah grab your wallet and run when you hear so-called open minded scientists say that the science is settled. Hey, let's ask that NOBEL prize winning genius Mann to see what he thinks about the data?

  7. Nocturnal Emission Is Go For Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We love Mr President like we love you. We are cannibals. We are the Republicans from the North Carolinia. We are go for Trump.

  8. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by ochinko · · Score: 1

    I find the /s tag to be offensive, but I guess some people need it.

  9. We Need To Stop Trying... by rally2xs · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...stuff that doesn't work, like emitting less CO2. We can't. We continue to show it, over and over.

    Instead, put efforts toward something like this:

    https://www.technologyreview.c...

    Make that work, put our money in that, build 'em maybe $750 million worth a year all over the globe, and in 100 years we'll be where we need to be maybe. Certainly the world together could afford $750 million a year?

    Trying to limit CO2 just makes the prices of everything go up, which punts a bunch more people into poverty, where they die. That is, poverty is deadly. Smoking will take maybe 7 years off your life, but poverty can take 10. Don't do things that make things expensive for the poor, or make middle class people into poor class people. Do something like this and then just the rich and otherwise well-to-do can finance it and leave the poor and middle-classers the hell out of it.

    1. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by sidetrack · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If the learning for various low-carbon alternatives hadn't fallen drastically in the past few years, then I'd say you were correct, but as it is, this rise is just lag in the system I think...

      Wind and solar generation LCOE are now lower than fossil energy generation in much of the world, and their prices are still falling. Fossil generation plant commissioning has dropped dramatically (see GE's profits forecast for their fossil turbine division - for example). TCO of a new electric car is now lower than that of fossil fuelled cars. TCO of heat pumps is lower than gas heating in many parts of the world too.

    2. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by sidetrack · · Score: 1

      s/fallen drastically/cut costs drastically/ ... in too much of a rush...

    3. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The law of entropy is real and not negotiable, you know that, right?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by sidetrack · · Score: 5, Interesting

      See also Lazard's annual analysis of costs for power generation 2018 and check out the graph on page 7. Coal and gas peaker plants aren't coming back from those sort of price drops, and solar costs are still dropping. Yes, I know this isn't dispatchable generation, but demand-response, and long-distance transmission, will largely get you around that...

      You don't really start needing a lot of storage until renewables are over 50% of the generation mix, and costs are falling for storage rapidly, so that there's a reasonable chance that solar + storage will be the cheapest form of generation by the time we get to 50% renewables (by just replacing generation plant on the usual replacement cycles i.e. without added cost) too.

    5. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by sidetrack · · Score: 1

      Then there's developments like Allam cycle gas power plants, which have a better basic efficiency than the current fleet of gas power plants, and these have CO2 capture baked in for free as part of the design. Getting someone to pay to bury that CO2 is likely to be way cheaper than paying someone to suck it out of the air at 600ppm, and then bury it.

    6. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      ...stuff that doesn't work, like emitting less CO2. We can't. We continue to show it, over and over.

      Instead, put efforts toward something like this:

      How will they power those plants? They need electricity, just saying.

      --
      No sig today...
    7. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you know, just buy less crap. If we buy and use less stuff, you save money and save the environment. The obsession with having the latest iPhone+iWatch+iWant, associated with all the other obsessions of having whatever the Kardashians are showing off these days, is part of the reason we are where we are. Culture evolves faster than science does. And if people start doing more useful stuff with their lives than binge watching on the Kardashians, maybe we can have a better world...

    8. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is interesting how prices differ between countries. Here are the costs of electricity for residential users in Slovakia (taken from invoice from 2017). The costs are for energy only. Distribution costs are not included.

      conventional: 0.042 EUR/kWh

      brown coal: 0.086 EUR/kWh

      nuclear: 0.048 EUR/kWh

      biomass/solar/smallHydro: 0.142 EUR/kWh

    9. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any solution that depends on this:

      "alternative fuels made from the captured carbon dioxide"

      Is bullshit.

      1) To make fuel from CO2 requires energy. Lots of it. Where is that energy going to come from? Nuclear? Hah. Get real. Renewables? Hardly.

      2) Fuel from the captured CO2 is just going to re-emit the original CO2, so it's not going to do anything to help in the long run.

      CO2 scrubbing is a red herring. It looks good on paper only to people who don't know anything about physics, chemistry, or the laws of the conservation of energy. To people with actual knowledge (and by that I mean not only political knowledge) of these concepts, the idea is laughable on its face.

      CO2 in the atmosphere will stop going up only when we stop taking more carbon out of the ground and oxidizing it into CO2. That is it. End of story.

    10. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      ...stuff that doesn't work, like emitting less CO2. We can't. We continue to show it, over and over

      No. We need to *start* trying. The only thing we continue to show is that we don't give a shit. It's the "I'm all green and ecofriendly but man my house is 22degC OMG, why isn't the AC running" attitude.

    11. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just judging from the wiki, Allam cycle power production seems kinda scammy, and the article raises more questions than it answers. Like, where does the output CO2 go? If it is not permanently sequestered, then the technology is not helping. Even the article suggest using the output CO2 in 'advanced oil recovery," i.e. let's make even more atmospheric CO2 with it.

      Also, doing a little digging, I found this Gem:

      ""This is the exciting culmination of a process that required the hard work and dedication of our investors," said Charlie Bowser, NET Power's President. "We were also very fortunate to bring together an extraordinary group of key contractors and equipment suppliers. Because of the collaborative effort of the extended team, our achievements have fully met our expectations.""

      Now, I don't know about you, but when I make an investment, I don't usually think of it as creating more work for me. Saying 'hard work and dedication of our investors' is codespeak for 'this thing was way more expensive than we promised, and took longer to deliver.'

      It basically sounds like they had to come up with investors that put dogma before a reasonable expectation of return, and suppliers and contractors that believed in fairy tales.

    12. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      And all those prices are well under what we pay in Ventura County, California (the "leader" in green energy, supposedly)...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    13. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Wind and solar are great for the grid, keep building (although the concrete required for wind tower foundations requires an insane amount of concrete, which emits a LOT of CO2 when making cement) but we need a solution for transportation CO2, and don't have it. Love wind turbines, I think they're beautiful, and solar farms are totally innocuous and I think offer a pleasing geometry to the eye even if somewhat boring, but again, its transportation that will be the tough nut to crack.

    14. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Successful demonstration of the Allam cycle indicates that sCO2 brayton power cycles are viable. (The materials demands are less extreme, and efficiency is still good even at moderate temperatures.) This is excellent news for all thermal sources, including solar and nuclear, as sCO2 turbomachinery is much smaller, and could substantially reduce plant cost.

      Use of the Allam cycle itself offers less to be excited about, as one of the intended uses of CO2 is for enhanced oil recovery. Maybe it's better than atmospheric emissions, but it would be best not to burn the fuel at all. Assuming the CO2 stays in the ground, it is still a waste of concentrated carbon resources, and primarily benefits those selling increasingly scarce fossil fuels.

      I'd rather use living forests to sequestering carbon, than disperse it deep into the earth where it will become inaccessible. It is a valuable resource, and at some point, we will want it back for uses other than burning.

    15. Re:We Need To Stop Trying... by sidetrack · · Score: 1

      Those prices on your 2017 invoice are (I assume) from existing generation sources (probably for some at least with long-term fixed price guarantees) - the numbers in the Lazard report are for newly built generation in 2018. There is also some international data on page 9 for solar, wind, gas peaker (open cycle), and gas CCGT (combined cycle).

      So I don't expect to see emission continue to rise for much longer - just for straight economic reasons...

  10. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by sidetrack · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If you have sufficient qualifications to be a climate scientist, there are PLENTY of better paid jobs out there.

    Also, that definitely wouldn't explain Exxon's internal science team predicting a 2C warming by 2060 back in 1982?

    Do you think those involved in that internal study thought that would help them keep their jobs at Exxon?

  11. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Don't you think you could make a lot more money by saying the opposite? I mean, who do you think offers the fatter paychecks, the government (you know, the one that got its environment budget de facto axed) or multinational oil and gas corporations trying to avoid legislation that would cost them a LOT more than any climate scientist claiming that anything they do is a-ok with the environment?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So oil funded research is good, as long as we get the conclusion we expected.

    Fail.

  13. as CAPTCHA: posture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we don't deal with overpopulation, nature will, probably a war or twentysomething, reducing the population to zero.

    1. Re:as CAPTCHA: posture by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      War isn't an act of nature.

    2. Re:as CAPTCHA: posture by Sique · · Score: 1
      We deal with overpopulation, albeit not in the way you might think. Global birth rates are falling since 60 years, and most countries are now below 2.5 children per woman. But the number of people already born and reaching reproductive age is not shrinking yet, as the people getting children right now were born 20 to 40 years ago. If you don't go out and start killing people of age 40 and younger, population will grow another 3 billion, until it levels at 10 billion, even if the birth rates worldwide fall below 2 children per woman.

      Effectively, we are dealing now with the birthrates of the 1970ies and 1980ies, and we can't change them retroactively except by killing people born after 1970.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:as CAPTCHA: posture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      War is part of the animal kingdom (ants, termites, and some primates engage is 'war'). We are also part of nature making our wars an act of nature.

      When did nature become a teletubbie caricature of unicorn farts and marshmallow sharts? Nature is a cold hearted bitch that gives zero fucks about hippies and their stupid drug trips being "one with nature".

    4. Re:as CAPTCHA: posture by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Take a look at the list of countries by population growth rate. Then take a look at the list of countries by GDP per capita. You'll see an interesting negative correlation - the higher the GDP, the lower the population growth rate (or, in fact, a population reduction for a lot of the top GDP-per-capita nations). The proven method of reducing overpopulation? Accelerate GDP per capita.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  14. Global farting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for an hospital, and I noticed a significant and irresponsible increase of people farting in my office, sometimes it sounds (and smells) like an epidemic. Some of them justifies themselves talking about Aerophagia, but I simply cannot buy that explanation, it's not supposed to be a viral condition, and it cannot affect so many people contemporarily. I scheduled a meeting with labor union representatives on this issue for tomorrow, because not only this phenomenon increases carbon emissions, but believe me, sometimes it's really intolerable.

    1. Re:Global farting by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      Why you gotta be hating on Taco Tuesday like that?

  15. The one in power do not care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where the money and true power are they do not care because they have the money to either avoid the damage from it, or even profit from the effects. They also have a mostly short sight on the future, their generation, themselves mostly, and maybe their children. The rest of us can die gasping from their point of view. You can see it in their rhetoric about the lazy and entitled worker class. There are exception which may be LESS selfish, but once you climb at that level, it filters to mostly enable sociopath en mass compared to the normal population. I *FULLY* expect nothing whatsoever to be done expect band aids. Are our grand children fucked ? Definitively. But this is the type of society we promoted, and thus we die by the sword we wielded. I see nothing changing in the next few decades because the one in power have no real interest in it.

  16. Re: I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by aliquis · · Score: 1

    More like big oil knowing the facts too they just don't want to admit to it in public.

    Like the tobacco companies.

  17. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That feeling in your gut is the mercury poisoning from coal fired power plant emissions.

  18. Disappointed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why isn't US #1?
    China is beating us everywhere.
    We can do better.

  19. Nobody cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you getting tired of publishing this same old nonsense day after day?

  20. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't "feel", do research. Trump is a terrible role model - don't follow his lead by ignoring the data that's out there.

  21. Quick summary by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you look at their data (download the PDF - it has the overview graphs), it's what you expect: CO2 emissions from fossil fuels in the West are declining. China, following massive rises, has plateaued at a high level - on a per capita basis, the same as the EU (shocking, given the number of Chinese living essentially pre-industrial lives).

    On a per capita basis, the US is still far higher than anyone else. However, this has been declining at an impressive pace, and there is no obvious basis for the claim that US consumption will increase in 2018. In fact, that would be a huge trend reversal, and (imho) is likely a politically motivated claim.

    Meanwhile, emissions from India and other Asian countries are increasing rapidly. In fact, they are driving *all* of the global increase, plus compensating for declining emissions everywhere else.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Quick summary by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And while you're quick to criticism those two also spend far more money on green initiatives in the USA. Point the finger all you want, but what the future is likely to hold is a case study in how you can lift your people out of poverty without emitting what the USA does.

      The first mover advantage works just as much for innovation and technology as it does for crimes, legal loopholes, and industrialising a nation.

    2. Re:Quick summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now do the per capita carbon footprints of celebrities and politicians vs. the working class.

    3. Re:Quick summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China, following massive rises, has plateaued at a high level - on a per capita basis, the same as the EU (shocking, given the number of Chinese living essentially pre-industrial lives).

      Given that most of China Co2 is used to procued stuff used by the rest of the world I don't understand why your are surprised.

    4. Re:Quick summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Planting a bunch of trees a few hundred miles away from county-sized toxic waste dumps does not let China off the hook.

      Or is Baotou more like the size of New England? It's hard to tell from the wikipedia article just how much of the prefecture's 10,721 square miles would be contaminated.

    5. Re:Quick summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On a per capita basis, Australia (coal) and Canada (tar sands) are higher than anyone else.

  22. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by tsa · · Score: 1

    I liked the joke.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  23. Stop effing flying by tsa · · Score: 1

    I people paid the real costs of flying, a lot of problems would be solved. Amsterdam, London and the like would have a LOT less tourists messing up the cities, Uber and Airbnb would go bust and the local would finally get some room to breathe in their own city. Tourists are fine but the maximum number has been crossed a long time ago. Oh, and we also would have an enormous amount less CO2 in the air. Only winners here!

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Stop effing flying by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Right. That is why emissions are rising. Tourists.

    2. Re:Stop effing flying by tsa · · Score: 1

      They're a big part. Seriously. Our 'extremely clean' country is building an extra airport just for them.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    3. Re:Stop effing flying by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Wow! Who knew? I thought it was manufacturing and energy generation, but apparently it is tourists going to Norway.

    4. Re:Stop effing flying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is a non-negligible part, yes. Airplanes have lower CO2 emissions per person and mile than cars, but people fly long distances. One trip from the US to Europe causes roughly a quarter of the CO2 emissions that a car emits in a year of average driving.

    5. Re:Stop effing flying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tourism generated about 30% of global GDP. You can assume that about 30% of CO emissions is because of tourists.

    6. Re:Stop effing flying by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Now there is some logic.

    7. Re:Stop effing flying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh, on a personal responsibility metric, flying all the time is clearly the worst thing you can do. And then eating meat. And then being alive.

      It's not a huge percent in total, because most people don't do it that much. But those (of us) that do, we're pretty much the biggest assholes.

      Of course, we're better than you goddamn meat eaters.

    8. Re:Stop effing flying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! Who knew? I thought it was manufacturing and energy generation, but apparently it is tourists going to Norway.

      Well, it's only fair, given all the tourists Norway sent out between 700 and 1000 AD.

  24. Hardly the US that's the worst offender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its always the US that is to blame or focus of blame. Although from the figures China and India are the biggest culprits. Yet they have not committed any time line to reduce emissions by any. The reality is, nobody really plans to do anything about it and for the US to commit even more to reducing it just means more producers of carbon emissions will just move their operations to India or China.

  25. Huh by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I thought you said it was already too late? But now we have another two years to turn it around, if we just follow your policy prescriptions?

    with emissions in China up 4.7%, in the US by 2.5% and in India by 6.3% in 2018

    Ah, that explains why the most vitriol will certainly be aimed at China and India. Right?

    1. Re:Huh by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      Plus the EU raised their emissions in both 2017 AND 2018, but no problem.

    2. Re:Huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the EU inhabitants produce half the Co2 emission of an American, I think that Americans should start at how their emission evolve before even starting to comment on other countries.

  26. Global warming alarmism - obvious lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    www.climatedepot.com
    www.wattsupwiththat.com

    The whole 'global warming' thing is a giant fraud, billions of dollars have been wasted on this scam, just think what could have been done with that money, it could have been spent on building schools and hospitals in Africa and India, etc.

    1. Re:Global warming alarmism - obvious lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, the dribbling idiot links, all of which have been thouroughly discredited.

  27. Gotta have goals by MrKaos · · Score: 0

    If you have nothing to aim for you can never achieve it. I'll take the opportunity to thank the Coal and Oil industry for this excellent outcome and the promise of even bigger and better things next year. Way to go guys ;-)

    Now lets get back to our important work of dumping plastic bags in the ocean to kill Dolphins, there is so much more that we can do.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:Gotta have goals by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      oh dear people taking sarcasm seriously.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  28. Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The rich have by far been the largest beneficiary of the productivity increases since the 1970s which resulted in the increased CO2 emissions. They have skimmed every bit of additional income for themselves. TAX THE RICH. And not just a couple percent more. Tax them so that they think it's 1970 again: You can pay yourself hundreds of times as much as your workers, but 95% of everything you earn beyond a 10x multiple goes to the IRS, thank you very much. Tax the sale price of any car that gets less than 35mpg 50%. Tax gas and kerosene 50%. Use the money to build solar, wind (and nuclear if you must) and subsidize electric cars $20000 in a new-for-old program. But first and foremost: TAX THE RICH. They have exploited the world for their gains.

    1. Re:Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and just to be clear: That means taxing ALL income, including capital gains.

    2. Re:Tax the rich by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So ... you want the US to become like Europe?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rich are not taxed anywhere in the world, not in the US, not in the EU. The EU taxes the middle class, like every country on this planet does too.

    4. Re:Tax the rich by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Yes, lets subsidize $60,000 Tesla's. That will show those rich people! By the way, capital gains are already taxed.

    5. Re:Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. Tell me where the majority of taxes come from in the US based on income levels. It isn't middle class and certainly not the poor. You can google it. I will wait.

    6. Re:Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, let's do that. If a rich person trades in a car to buy a Tesla and get a $20000 subsidy, that's fine. Rich people don't generally drive cars which are worth less than $20000. A new-for-old program with a fixed subsidy is exactly the kind of subsidy that doesn't favor the rich. You got a $1500 clunker and want to buy an electric? You can't now, but with a subsidy like that it's a feasible investment and a great deal. You won't get a Tesla, of course, but there are several electric cars below $30000. The Smart Fortwo Electric is less than $25000.

      And no, capital gains are not adequately taxed. Don't take it from me. Listen to Warren Buffet. It's not news either. That was 2010!

    7. Re:Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In total, the rich pay the biggest chunk of the taxes. That's what you want to hear, right? But they still pay a lower tax rate than the middle class. That's because they pay taxes on insanely high individual incomes. Their contribution to funding public infrastructure is not adequate in relation to the value they get out of it and neither is it adequate in relation to their ability to pay taxes. Warren Buffet agrees, btw.

    8. Re:Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More taxes!

      That never backfired. *Looks at France.* Whoops.

    9. Re:Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      France wanted to increase taxes on low to middle classes, not the rich. You can't just raise taxes on gas. All consumption taxes disproportionately affect the poor. You also need to make sure that the poor and middle class can afford going electric. Without that, demand for gas is very inelastic and you're not helping the environment, just levying a tax on poverty. France did the opposite of what I'm saying.

    10. Re:Tax the rich by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      No, that isn't "fine". It is inefficient to give some rich guy $20k. It would be better to spend that money on something that is actually effective at reducing emissions: public transportations. Cars are not green. EVs are just good for posturing.

  29. Car buying trends? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So nobody blinks an eye at the fact that Pickup Truck and SUV sales are at an all time high?

  30. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  31. It was the oil crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems to me the obvious culprit was the crash in oil and coal prices. Not only did this incentivize the energy producers to ramp up their fossil fuel operations, it incentivized the little man to go out and buy a 10,000 pound diesel truck. Has nobody else noticed this? We now have people using giant diesel trucks as commuter cars. Going food shopping in a 6-wheel diesel truck. Taking the kids to daycare in a diesel truck. I even see white collar office workers driving to their office jobs in diesel trucks. It wasn't like this before the oil crash.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: the best possible thing that could happen for both the earth AND human beings would be for the price of oil and coal to skyrocket. Would it cause an economic disaster? Probably. Would it be worth it? Not a single doubt in my mind.

    1. Re:It was the oil crash by Chas · · Score: 1

      Hey, if you want to volunteer to go live in a cave and subsist on grass, BE MY GUEST!

      It's really easy to moralize how OTHER people should react and be okay with massive economic upheaval if it isn't affecting YOU.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    2. Re:It was the oil crash by knewter · · Score: 1

      it incentivized the little man to go out and buy a 10,000 pound diesel truck

      Hey look you're talking about me! 14 months ago I bought a dually diesel F-350 so I could haul a 16k pound RV around America and check it out with my family of 5. I lived in the RV for a year, and it's not like I drove the truck every day, so for all I know my carbon footprint went down. I wouldn't know, since I don't actually give a shit.

      My kids got to see more of America. It's a beautiful country, and the fact that I had an option like that is part of what makes it beautiful.

      It's really hard for me to take the vast majority of environmentalists seriously since their ideological ancestors are the reason nuclear power has been hamstrung for so long. If we'd built nuclear power plants we'd be outputting drastically less CO2, and energy would be cheaper. Environmentalists took that away from me, and now they'd also like to take my truck away to 'pay' for their dumbass policies.

      America is about freedom. Figure it out. Identify how to convince free people to change their behaviour in the way that you want.

      You can do this by making reasonable arguments. Which brings me to:

      the best possible thing that could happen for both the earth AND human beings would be for the price of oil and coal to skyrocket. Would it cause an economic disaster? Probably. Would it be worth it? Not a single doubt in my mind.

      Millions of human beings would die in the short term. Specifically, poor people. It seems like an extreme position to say "let's kill millions of poor people, for the environment!" but you do you.

      --
      -knewter
  32. Repeating headline since 1970 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    [Global emissions or temperatures] are at the highest level [in a long period of time]! We have only [small number] years to change our lifestyles before it's too late! One needs to go no further than to see [weather event which may or may not be related to climate change depending on whether it helps the argument] to know we're right. Sea level has also changed [five inches or less] in the past [small number] years.

    The effort to fight [climate change or global warming, depending on audience] is hindered by greed and propaganda in [capitalist countries] from [far-right zealots]. "Their greed will destroy the world." says [quotable scientist].

    One thing is certain: There is only one planet and even if [impending disasters] do not come to pass, we're still responsible for maintaining it.

    1. Re:Repeating headline since 1970 by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Responsible? Not really, I mean, who'd be able to call us out for it.

      Basically it comes down to whether you want to live, and whether you have children you want to live. Other than that, it's pretty much "do as you please", it's not like we have any accountability for the planet to anyone else but yourself and your descendants.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  33. Global Carbon Levels by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 1

    Were 1000x Higher than this when Dinosaurs walked the Earth...

    1. Re:Global Carbon Levels by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It was even a million times higher than today back during the late heavy bombardment.

      You know what both eras have in common?

      No humans.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Global Carbon Levels by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Yep - and because humans (due to our superior intellect and our opposable thumb) we can deal with climate change a whole HECK of a lot better than dinosaurs...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    3. Re:Global Carbon Levels by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 1

      CO2 PPM was 1700 in the Cretaceous, about 4 times higher than it is today. 1000x higher would mean 40% of the atmosphere was CO2. It hasn't been that high since the Oxygen Catastrophe about a billion years ago

    4. Re:Global Carbon Levels by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      We certainly can. But can our crops and livestock?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Global Carbon Levels by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      I assume, since we've pretty much mastered agriculture and can grow food where it was never though possible (hydroponics, for instance), and we can breed/engineer plants and animals to adapt - we can probably do a pretty good job of that, too!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  34. I'm sorry to harp on ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... about this but the data on this problem is pretty clear: If we don't get a handle on this problem and make it snappy, humanity and the ecosystem as we know it is pretty much screwed.

    Just saying.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:I'm sorry to harp on ... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the tip.

    2. Re:I'm sorry to harp on ... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yup. But I'm tired of talking and trying to make the world "a better place". I stopped worrying and trying for just long enough to ask "why the fuck?".

      I have no kids.
      I have about 30 years to live.

      Screw the planet and humanity.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:I'm sorry to harp on ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if you guys would cool it with the Chicken Little act, you might be taken a little more seriously.

    4. Re:I'm sorry to harp on ... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I have about 30 years to live.
      Perhaps moving to a country where average live expectance is increasing, helps ;) ?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:I'm sorry to harp on ... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Japan and Singapore are already overpopulated and it's not that easy to get into Monaco. But Iceland looks nice, I might ponder moving there.

      But just for a handful of years more? It's not like that's gonna change much. Besides, would I really want to? After all, the last few years are also usually the ones that really, really suck. I'd prefer to croak at 70 in acceptable health than ail along another 20 years, bedridden and lying in my own shit because nobody can be assed to wipe my ass.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  35. Uh-huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank your fellow Americans that insist on making SUVs the only vehicles that sell. Sometimes I think we deserve exactly what we are getting in this country. The majority of us are the walking dead.

  36. sounds unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So things randomly rise, even though the world is using more electric cars, solar, renewable energy?

    Either those things produce more net carbon emissions through their entire process, or the findings are faulty.

    How else does this make sense

  37. standard of living must fall by DogDude · · Score: 2

    The standard of living must fall in the US. I know people lose their fucking minds about this fact ("Freedom!"), but it's a fact. 10 billion people cannot live on the planet, all driving giant gas burning cars and eating everything wrapped in plastic. They can't.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I am sorry to hear about your small penis.

    2. Re:standard of living must fall by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1, Troll

      If leftists really thought that man made climate change is the biggest existential threat to the world they would not be in favor of people from the lowest carbon per capita producing countries immigrating to the the highest carbon per capita producing countries. Why would anyone turn a low energy consuming person, and their future children, into high energy consuming ones?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:standard of living must fall by Chas · · Score: 0, Troll

      Exactly.
      Where the fuck does someone get off telling someone else "You're just going to need to take a hit..."
      Christ, the sense of entitlement is incredible...

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    4. Re:standard of living must fall by DogDude · · Score: 0, Troll

      What a complete and total dick you must be in real life. Do people ever just punch you in the face for being such an asshole?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    5. Re: standard of living must fall by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      That pain you were feeling when you wrote that? That's what cognitive dissonance feels like. You'd be better off taking a step back and figuring out a more logical approach, rather than calling people names.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re: standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, remember the original moral principle from which everything should be deduced: if I can afford it, it's my right.

    7. Re:standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come and try it you commie.

    8. Re: standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that's one of the points, we can't afford it. Most Americans have a crushing amount of debt ($137k per household is the average) , add to that the national debt and I think you're looking at almost $300k per household. It WILL come due and despite the daydreams of the average person the general public will be the ones footing the bulk of bill not the rich/corporations. I think the best we can hope for at this point, baring the insanely unlikely scenario of our "leaders" actually begin working towards fiscal solvency, is that we don't see it in our lifetime which is also becoming increasingly unlikely.

    9. Re:standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A higher standard of living and more responsible environmental activity are not mutually exclusive.

    10. Re:standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You First.....
      You already have?
      Not good enough!
      "Good enough" is "freeze to death in the dark" (cause starving takes too long....)

      Instead of this tiresome litany of "the sky is falling", let us use the same technical prowess that some say got us into this mess to get ourselves out of it. To this layman it seems that the long term trend is that these problems are already being addressed. The one point where I agree with you on is that 10 billion plus is an uncomfortably large population; the best cure for that is education and an >>>increased standard of living for the poorer and poorest populations, especially though not exclusively women.

      I don't care about what even legitimate experts say "must happen"; I care about what will work

      If you really want change you can either convince "first world' people to accept voluntary poverty (good luck with that...) or try to take what they believe is theirs from them by force (that'll work even better!).

      Trying to force people to live in a way counter to their innate evolutionary programming will not work. At best things will slowly decline, at worst you get massive population reduction along with reduction of resource use ....relatively quickly and quite brutally, along with very likely massive ecological damage.

      The only relatively quick way out only way out is to use our intelligence to figure out how to make more resources available without proportionally increasing the load on the planetary system. Abolish "wealth". Wealth is relative. Let the rich stay rich... help the poor become rich. When EVERYBODY can go to bed at night, well fed, in a clean secure home, then you may begin to try to convince people that some sort of life-philosophy adjustment may be desirable... but by then such convincing will probably not be needed.

    11. Re:standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the second time you are trying to shame someone right here. I thought that you are male. Men don't shame and neither do they react to shame. So do you have something useful to contribute instead? Like, logic and reason.

    12. Re:standard of living must fall by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Standard of living in America is NOT the highest. We are actually quite below many nations now.

      And it is not America that is the concern. For example, 1/3 to 1/2 of all CO2 emissions is coming from China. In addition, about 75% of all plastics in the pacific ocean comes from China (and interestingly, the majority of plastic in Atlantic's plastic island has been traced to Europe and then China). And as to the cars, they are a none-issue. The reason is that Elon Musk has forced the legacy companies to start switching to EVs. And those nations/states that are saying that no new ICE sales after 2030, will actually be late to the party. By 2022/23, it is near certain that ppl in America, Europe, and China will have switched to EVs being the majority.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    13. Re:standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Per person you are very bad. twice as bad as Europe, twice as bad as China, 10 times as bad as India
      Everything you say on this topic is to cover up and blame other people and hide the simple fact you are much worse than most people.

    14. Re:standard of living must fall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your consumption is the highest but your standard of living isn't? Then why the fuck are you consuming so much crap? It's not even raising your standards. Are you doing it just because you have free money? Buy buy buy from other countries, sponge off of their hard work, cause pollution in their countries and then give them bits of paper and a promise to pay it back later? What the fuck are you doing to our environment?

  38. that's fucking stupid by DogDude · · Score: 1

    You're a fucking idiot. We can easily emit less CO2. We choose not to. We are very quickly killing our own environment. Being poor won't matter after we're dead.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:that's fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virus doesn't care about economics.

  39. The obvious first step.... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
    ....Quit selling card to India and China!!

    ;)

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re: The obvious first step.... by ThurstonMoore · · Score: 1

      I doubt the majority of cars in those markets come from America.

  40. Something is missing from this article... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    The statement is that carbon emissions are higher across the globe. It's posited that its due to more cars on the road. However, I suspect that the metrics of newly added cars has not sky-rocketed. And many electric cars have been added. While some use of coal has returned. A lot of renewable energy has been added as well.

    But surely, there wasn't a big trend across the globe. So what is not being said equates to one of two things...

    a) We have been in a global recession and economic decline, and this was the first year to see a global shift into recovery

    b) or there were multiple large natural phenomena which have contributed. (e.g. U.S. wildfires from mismanaged forestry, volcanoes, etc)

    Likely, it was a combination of both.

    1. Re:Something is missing from this article... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      We have been in a global recession and economic decline? Um, what? Energy use is up because manufacturing is up and that causes more CO2 emissions.

    2. Re:Something is missing from this article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Manufacturing is not up. It is just moving en masse to "low cost" countries with no emissions rules.

      The economy is actually already in recession if you look at the real numbers instead of the lies the government publishes.

  41. No...because they're XSUVS by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    Crossover SUVs are not the same SUVs of old.

    They are a) built on car frames, b) using car engine and drive platforms, c) with next to zero towing capacity.

    80% of SUVs sold today are nothing more than mid-sized hatchbacks with AWD. They are NOT SUVs. They're more akin to the old Subaru AWD station wagons than anything else. But marketing....

    No one wants to drive a station wagon, and few guys want to drive hatchbacks. So they call them "Crossovers".

    They are NOT built on truck frames, nor do they contain truck engines, and most of them have low towing capacity. Hence, their MPG isn't that far off of most sedans. And often significantly better than many minivans, of which Crossover SUVs have significantly displaced.

    Where as real SUV is built on a solid much heavier truck frame. Can load and tow a significant amount of weight. And the non-2WD models usually feature "true" 4WD as opposed to mere AWD. (And yes, there is a difference.)

    1. Re:No...because they're XSUVS by DogDude · · Score: 1

      You went on and on about nothing relevant. The point is that pickups and SUV's get shitty gas mileage. People's cars are a top emitter of CO2.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
  42. Conservative Fiscal Responsibility is a Deception by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The tragedy of the commons is real, and has come up again, and again and again in economics. This time it is the atmosphere, and those who prosper most from the commons are responding to calls from the people for taxing the commons with "be REASONABLE!"

    Basic. Fucking. Economics.

  43. You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    American cars are vastly less eficient than other contries. Even China buys cleaner cars. Plus per person they have a lot less of them and drive them less distance. China is moving to electric faster than America is. China's coal % for electricity has been dropping for a decade and continues to drop.
    Go peddle your trollish lies elsewhere WindBourne. Per capita America is twice as bad as China, twice as bad as Europe and 10 times worse than India.Get your own house in order before lecturing people far cleaner than you are.

    1. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by Chas · · Score: 1

      I've got news for ya bunkie...

      Cars in the US are primarily the same as cars everywhere else in the world.

      A Nissan Sentra in the US is nominally identical to a Nissan Sentra in Japan.
      Same for Kia.
      Same for Jaguar.
      Same for Ford.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    2. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Please remind me what cars are the best selling ones in the USA?
      And as for being nominally identical, that is only on the outside. Inside even European cars sold in the United States have larger engines as a rule.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    3. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      Per capita America is twice as bad as China, twice as bad as Europe and 10 times worse than India.

      And yet, China emits twice the CO2 as the US. I did not realize that CO2 from China was less damaging to the climate as CO2 from the US. Apparently you have some unique way of quantifying the effect of CO2 from different countries?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by Chas · · Score: 0

      Yes?

      AND?

      Learn to make more concise statements.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    5. Re: You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by dunkelfalke · · Score: 0

      And that makes American cars less efficient. That conclusion should be obvious from the context. If it is not then the problem is with you, not me. Are you autistic?

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    6. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again, cock head ignores the important per capital stat, showing the US to be worse to try and deflect from reality.

    7. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Does CO2-driven climate change care about who emits how much CO2, or does it care about how much CO2 is emitted?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    8. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly troll. Why dont' WindBourne and you go 69 each other in the corner and let the grownups talk.
      Americans don't even buy sedans anymore they go for 'light trucks' for the eficiency LOL. You must be totally clueless if you think American transport is similar to those other places mentioned.

      Having a few little efficient cars available don;t mean shit if no one buys them but goes for the gas guzzlers instaed. Are you 12 or purposufully playing dense as part of your troll? Careful cause there are many foolish people like WindBourne who will take you serious.

    9. Re:You lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It cares about how much and Americans emit twice as much, so clearly they are the problem.

      Save the world, abort an American.

  44. Re: East Anglia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The moment I saw MailGaters from East Anglia quoted I knew this was more bullshit. 95% of climate pseudo scientists depend on data from known liars and scammers. If the East Anglia scumbags were Republicans you would be all over them and crying about vast right wing conspiracies.

  45. If gas was replacing it 1:1... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be reducing emissions.

    The problem is that at the same time the switch from Coal to Gas was happening, energy use was ALSO increasing.

    Really the solution is nuclear baseline, battery storage, and solar/wind for above-baseline power demand.

    1. Re: If gas was replacing it 1:1... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Spot-on. Nuclear SMR should be replacing ok'd coal plants ( most are quite small ), along with going into any site that HAD nuclear power. A good example is Zion just north of Chicago.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:If gas was replacing it 1:1... by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      nuclear baseline

      Perhaps you should listen to Primus

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  46. So go browbeat somebody else by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 0

    I dare all the environmental activists to go to China and India and protest there.

    1. Re:So go browbeat somebody else by DogDude · · Score: 1

      I dare you to wrap your mouth around a car's tailpipe and breathe deeply.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
  47. It's not stupidity, it's tactics by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    It's countries behaving according to actual beliefs in CO2 being a problem for global warming, instead of the rhetoric they put forth.

    For many countries, CO2 reduction is just another tool of economic war to the extent they can convince other countries to play along reduces their economic output and prosperity chasing the goal of CO2 reduction instead. That is certainly why China constantly promotes CO2 reduction despite doing essentially nothing to reduce it themselves.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  48. Caffeinated Bacon/crimson tsunami, you lie by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Worst, I said in first posting that that America is buying lower mpg vehicles. So you lied about what I said
    Secondly, these vehicles are as efficient as any from Europe esp since they are the same. Europe buys smaller cars because of small roads and families but same efficiency.
    Third, when America/europe buys a new car, it typically replaces a car. When China buys a new car, it adds to their total. Iow, a car is typically not junked. As such, which 98% of China's vehicle bring fossil fuels, it adds lots more emissions. America's and Europe do not.
    If you did the math, you would have found out that BOTH China and America have 2% of new car sales as EV. So you lie, again, when screaming that China is buying more.
    Finally, with China at 80% of their electricity ( yes, 80% ) as coal, your electricity is filthy. Worse yet, while America continues to drop our coal, you continue to lie about your nation adding more coal than America has total.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  49. Thanks, Trump! by Locke2005 · · Score: 0

    Mar-a-lago will soon be underwater, thanks to you! "I don't believe it!" -- Delusional Donald Trump

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Thanks, Trump! by Tulsa_Time · · Score: 2

      Problem is that people have been saying that for decades... and the oceans have risen a few CM.

      Sea levels were much lower 10,000-20,000 years ago when 2 miles of ICE covered most of north america.

      Good thing the ocean levels rose and the temperatures rose then or you would not be here complaining.

      Humans were not involved in that great melting ... so there are obviously forces you do not understand affecting climate.

       

      --
      5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
    2. Re:Thanks, Trump! by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Yes, the Earth goes through a 5000 year climate cycle, so it is difficult to determine what part of climate change is due to natural cycles and what part is due to human actions. However, I cannot believe the huge amounts of carbon dioxide we've released into the atmosphere in the past 100 years has had no effect on climate!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  50. Terrible troll: "Heartland Institute"? Really? by DogDude · · Score: 1

    This is a terrible troll. It's one thing to troll. It's completely another to come right out and say, "I would suggest at least you keep an open mind and read the climate change research from Heartland Institute to get the other side of this debate. ". Anybody with two brain cells to run together knows that the "Heartland Institute" assholes are on the wrong side of every subject, whether it's pollution, tobacco use, education, health care, or taxes. If you're going to troll this kind of serious bullshit, at least don't make it so damn obvious, dummy.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  51. Yes by DogDude · · Score: 0

    So ... you want the US to become like Europe?

    I certainly do. It would save me from having to move there to get out of this shithole country.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Yes by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Then you gotta vote in someone... oh, wait. Right. You can't.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  52. China does not buy cleaner cars by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Even China buys cleaner cars....

    Stop accepting the bullshit statistics China feeds you and try visiting sometime. China DOES NOT have cleaner cars, as you can tell from the cars themselves, but especially from the hellacious pollution they have in many cities, even worse than LA in the heyday.

    I find it amusing you also believe them about percentage of electricity from coal.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: China does not buy cleaner cars by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      That guy is caffeinated bacon and I believe he works for Chinese gov.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:China does not buy cleaner cars by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Have you been to Shenzhen? All busses and more than half the taxis are electric. Name a western city that can make that claim.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:China does not buy cleaner cars by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Yes, and a lot of American cities are quickly going to all electric mass transit as well - lots already have light rail.

      But that's all kind of irrelevant as buses in a city are vastly outnumbered by private cars.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  53. Great example of "Fuck you, I've got mine" by DogDude · · Score: 1, Insightful

    That's a great example of "fuck you, I've got mine". And your selfish fucking ass is why humanity is doomed. Because you *want* to drive a giant vehicle 10,000 miles because you *want* to, and fuck anybody else who says you shouldn't. You're a tremendous asshole.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re: Great example of "Fuck you, I've got mine" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more like, "because I can pay for it, I have a right to it."

  54. Average Global Temperature is a function of CO2? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Q: What scientist keeps claiming a causality when they can't even demonstrate a correlation?
    A: A scientist that gets paid for claiming a causality.

  55. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by Chas · · Score: 1

    Maybe in China. Sure.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  56. $10,000 isn't that much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What does the cost of your house and car have to do with it, and who the fuck pays $6,000 for an EV charger?

  57. Called A Growing Economy by Crashmarik · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Dirty little secret, economic activity uses energy. Americans actually like having jobs, homes, and feeding our families.

  58. Foreigners telling ME what to do??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes. I'm 'murkin. It's my Constitutionally protected right. Now fuck off and die like a good little foreigner.

  59. I pay for my carbon tax with... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    climate change

  60. Fun Facts: Easily Fixed by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    You can't do anything from all the GHG in the atmosphere and oceans now.

    Or can you?

    1. The 23 US States (and BC) that have Renewable Energy Portfolio standards of 50 pct of all new energy, lead the way. They reduced their emissions, even while their population increased and their GDP outpaced the rest of the US. This shows we need to set a 120 percent Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS), where for every new KWHr we use in new energy, we have to build 120 percent of that in renewable utility plants. This can include solar and wind residential use, but must include decommissioning of coal and oil usage.

    2. A lot of China and India still use coal for heating. Fix that.

    3. Remove all tax exemptions, exclusions, subsidies and grandfather clauses for all fossil fuel usage. This includes depreciation, which should sunset in 2020. Got a coal plant after 2020? Not a tax deduction for depreciation, and you pay the full cost of all cleanups.

    4. We can remove carbon easily from both the food supply and the oceans (where it's been going). Institute large scale shellfish reefs (clams, mussels, other bivalves, not shrimp) with seagrass and seaweed planted in and around it. Studies show this acts as a massive carbon sink (the shells), you can eat the meat from it, and the shells can also be used in various forms of concrete, replacing the current sources that add to GHG emissions.

    We've shown you how. Now stop whining.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  61. EV Effect !!! by slash.jit · · Score: 1

    Some would say that its because of high EV growth in 2018 specifically the Tesla Model 3. LOL.

    1. Re:EV Effect !!! by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Nope. EVs just replace GHG emitting vehicles, and it depends on the power mix that supplies them. If the electricity is 100 percent coal produced, then it might have an effect of only pushing emissions from point sources in urban centers (bad) to the coal-fired utilities that make the electricity, but in most cases in the EU, US, Canada, Mexico, China, India, the electricity is a mix of renewables and coal. So it's slightly better than a gasoline vehicle (the oil has to be drilled, pumped, shipped, refined, shipped again, and then distributed, which leaves a long logistics train, part of why the military is moving to a renewable energy basis).

      The major change is that we allow tax credits for depreciation for fossil fuel vehicles at all levels, as well as fleet subsidies for them, as well as tax exemptions, exclusions, and grandfathering of them. Which is why the subsidies for oil based gasoline are 20 times those of EVs. Corn-based ethanol (caveat: I participated in 2 IPOs for those) is pretty bad too, mostly due to the use of water and fertilizer to produce the corn.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  62. THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR LIES KEN DOLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WE WILL MAKE SURE YOU FACE CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR LIES NAZI FAGGOT KEN DOLL

    Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

  63. Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Own the libs.

  64. Total Carbon Footprint by rechtco · · Score: 1

    The only number that matters is total world output of carbon emissions. Countries can manipulate their carbon output to look clean through increasing imports. China produces a lot of carbon emissions but it is the largest exporter in the world. Despite the claims by many countries of switching to clean energy, many countries are also exporting their carbon output by importing high carbon output products. Germany for example, imports more than a quarter of its GDP. 10 percent of those imports come from China and 20 percent come from Asia. Germany's major imports from China are products with a high carbon output in manufacturing, such as heavy machinery, autos and auto parts. Germany also imports its electricity from other EU countries. Unless one accounts for the carbon emissions produced by imports, a focus solely on a country's measure of it own carbon emissions gives a false reading. Countries are also responsible for the carbon emissions produced by their imports. The US imports about 10 percent of its GDP. It is much more a closed economy than most other major developed countries. The US reduction in carbon emissions is a real number since its reduction is due to changes in manufacturing and energy production processes within the US and not through a switch to high carbon emission imports. Germany's switch to renewable energy has increased energy cost in Germany and made energy intensive (high carbon emission) products less competitive with imports. Importing a high carbon emission product that once was made domestically is not a true reduction in carbon emissions. The only change that occurred is the location of the carbon output.

  65. That's what you get... by Doc+Right · · Score: 0

    ...when you close down your nuclear power plants. The wind doesn't always blow, the sun doesn't always shine. You have to have base load energy sources. Without nuclear, you get natural gas and coal as your base load sources. Precisely the opposite of what you're trying to achieve with wind and solar. You're doing it all wrong. Stop screwing around and get to work on thorium fueled MSRs. It's the only way forward.

  66. CaffeinatedBacon is simply a troll that lies. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    wrong.
    American cars are the same and have the same efficiency. Lower MPG does NOT mean lower efficiency. It means simply more fuel used per vehicle to carry more. Caffeinated Bacon, who posted the original, is a troll who constantly makes things up and lies.
    BTW, America is switching to SUVs, but so are most other nations. That includes Europe and China. Probably the biggest difference is that Europe is buying SMALLER SUVS (or X-overs), while America has bought larger (due to our larger roads/families/ and probably just plain assholes who do not think long term) for the last couple of years. Thankfully, EVs are up to 2% of sales in America (and the same in China; not sure what Europe's is), and increasing fast.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  67. Bacon, did Xi let you off his knob? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bacon head continues to try and pretend that China is not destroying this planet with their massive amount of CO2.
    Go back to sucking Xi's knob and quit getting your head banged against the wall.

  68. RE: political suicide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    political suicide or "doing the Macron"

  69. "Scientists" say Carbon emissions are up by rcamans · · Score: 1

    Since they cannot measure emissions, they know not of what they speak. They can measure atmospheric carbon levels, and estimate some emissions, for instance fossil fuel consumption. But a large source of emissions is concrete curing, and China is doing enormous infrastructure increases. Another is forest burning, and Amazon, California, etc are doing their part on that. Atmospheric carbon levels are emissions minus consumption. Forests consume carbon, so Amazon clear-cut / slash and burn with no replanting is a big problem, a double whammy. The ocean is the biggest consumer of carbon from the atmosphere, and it is filling up with carbon. Oceanic out-gassing of carbon has started near Antarctica. That is the biggest threat. The only way to actively combat atmospheric carbon levels is to plant fast-growing crops, like hemp or fast trees. But that is not technological and very lacking in profits for the many friends of people in office, so that will not happen. No serious kickbacks so not happening. Anything technological has carbon-polluting costs as well as carbon-consuming abilities, and what usually happens is that the (unconsidered) polluting of making the materials and equipment, and using them outweighs the supposed benefits. Methanol, for example.

    --
    wake up and hold your nose
  70. This is great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are all so lucky to be alive to witness it!

  71. what about the elephant in the room? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cuts made to CO2 levels will just be gobbled up by the ever increasing human population.
    Its naive to assume we can cool the earth anyway...

  72. Mod Parent up please by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Good post.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Mod Parent up please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people really cared about the environment they would send highly polluting Americans over to India so they can pollute less by shitting in the streets and being dirt poor.

  73. your deflection is irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any answer to that question is irrelevant. The solution is to clean your shit up. I can only clean my yard and you can only clean your yard. You ain't gonna make another sovereign nation do shit. So quit your fucking bitching AND CLEAN YOUR GODDAMNED YARD. You're like a fucking obstinate 6 year old.

    1. Re:your deflection is irrelevant by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      You don't want to answer because it will show you are flat-out wrong. As far as "cleaning up our yard", our emissions have been falling over the last 10 years - the EU, China, India, the rest of the world - all up. We've been doing our part, why won't you do yours? Again - is it because our CO2 molecules are worse than your CO2 molecules?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  74. Birds of a feather Dick together by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You only think it's a good post because you are also a card carrying member of the Insufferable Dick Club. Go be Deplorable elsewhere.

  75. Is he also pointing out all your lies WindBourne? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are you on about now WindBourne? You are completely wrong as always.

  76. Wow WindBourne you are so full of shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your whole post is just one big contradiction.
    Apart from when you falsely accuse people of lying, when everyone knows it's you.

    American cars clearly do not have the same efficiency, why claim they do?
    What does lower MGP mean then genius?
    America is switching to SUVs far more than other countries, it's just a fact Windtroll.
    Europe buying smaller and America larger is what makes theirs better you fool.
    (One thing right, America does have more assholes who don't care about the environment)(it's why you are twice other countries CO2)
    EV's are a much greater % in China than America, you know this but continue to lie. Parts of Europe are better than both.

  77. You were told 6 months ago you'd go up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Told you do idiot. America is getting worse. The one thing you kept on patting yourself on the back for was 'heading in the right direction'.
    Guess you got lost...
    Only reason America had a dip was the great recession. Now it's back to cheap gas, burn baby burn.
    How many developed countries are higher than USA? Only Australia? How many are less, ALL THE REST !!

    Per capita, the US generates more than twice as much carbon as other developed nations.(except Australia) Reducing your carbon emissions should be easy, because you are already ridiculously dirty and inefficient as a nation. Happy now?
    Facts are, you are heading in the wrong direction, are over twice as dirty as just about every single developed country but trolls and liars like you constantly tell us how great you are.

  78. Why the constant lies WindBourne? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Show where you get your 70-80% number?
    Stop with the anti-China lies.

    You know the US exports coal right...
    You think China will stop burning coal because a random slashdotter tells them to? We can't even stop your constant lies, but we can force a dictatorship to change state policy? You are even stupider than imagined.
    Those coal plants are jobs, no one wants to lay off that many workers, they all hope their plant will be allowed to continue and some one else will be forced to shut. You have a very limited understanding of this topic (and most topics it would seem) You already admit you know they are not even run close to capacity. Why do you think they build more? Your too childish and anti-China to even think a little bit about the actual situation.

  79. You believe any lie if it suits you Windy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You believe any lie if it suits you Windy

  80. And yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not a single major prediction made by the climate change hysterics has some true.

  81. You are the liar WindBourne, it's been shown often by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12980690&cid=57730500

    Americans have way more cars per capita than Europe and vastly more than China. So peddle your bullshit elsewhere.
    What is this magic that makes these bigger cars more efficient?
    Americans drive their cars further, even if they were the same efficiency (they aren't) they would pollute more. It's a fact.
    America's transport CO2 is increasing, so what you said must be wrong. Again facts.
    Show some evidence WindBourne. China has a much greater share of EV than America, show where you got your lies from.
    There was no lie (you lie again) the statement was you lie and bullshit at every turn. It's clearly a fact, China isn't 80% coal powered, you keep peddling that lie at every turn.
    Fact is, you constantly lie and bullshit every time the topic of CO2 comes up. You have never once show a lie like you claim, if you did, link to it.
    You can't because you are a full of shit lying troll, falsely accusing others to cover for your lies.

  82. You are twice as bad. case closed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Per person you are worse than Europe and china. Facts are facts.

    You are basically the same as a European and Chinaman added together. Explain how that makes you cleaner then either of them?

    You can't because you arent cleaner. You are twice as dirty, just have less people.

  83. America is amongst the worst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only reason you can, sorry, COULD, reduce was because you were so far out in front.

    Per person America is twice as polluting as Europe, twice as polluting as China and about 8 times as polluting as India. There would be something very wrong if you couldn't manage to drop more than those places. Take India for example there total per person is less than the amoount you claim you dropped in the last few years. For them to drop mnore they would have to go negative!! Yet even with your big drop you are still very vmuch worst than India.

    Stop trying to lie that America is anything but dirty.

  84. Capacity isn't use you dumbfuck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capacity isn't use you dumbfuck

  85. Americans consume the most and pollute the most. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans consume the most and pollute the most. Coincidence? No of course not, the pollution is a direct consequence of the consumption. It's no wonder America per person is the dirtiest, they consume the most. It's common sense. Except for apologists and compulsive liars.

  86. WTF WindBourne? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't argue whats written so make up some bullshit to pretend you are right? Who claimed batteries were cheaper than peaker plants? That's right no one. You are very manipulative and dishonest.

  87. Re:I feel it in my gut that this is a hoax by ochinko · · Score: 1

    Science methods exclude any feelings, gut related included. Thought that would be obvious, but it turned out that it wasn't.

    The only guy who got the sarcasm, was a real scientist with a PhD, according to his site. He got downvoted as well in the knee jerk avalanche.

  88. CO2 != Warmer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j46mnIcz330

  89. EU emissions rose in 2017 by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    The EU's emissions are near flat, but this follows a decade of strong falls.

    Like 2017, when France, Germany, Spain and Italy increased emissions, when US and UK dropped them?

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  90. USA isn't 2x because Canada is also 2x Windy logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America isn't dirty because Canada is also dirty...
    Apologist troll get lost.

  91. Capacity isn't use you dumbfuck !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you paid to be this dense?

    China is already 1/2 your per person levels. You drop to meet them first. You should be developed enough by now...

  92. You said it was coming to a close, you lied. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not,