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FCC To Suspend Most Operations Thursday if the Partial Government Shutdown Continues (fcc.gov)
The Federal Communications Commission will suspend most operations in the middle of the day January 3 if the partial government shutdown continues, the agency has announced [PDF]. In a statement, it said: In the event of a continued partial lapse in federal government funding, the Federal Communications Commission will suspend most operations in the middle of the day on Thursday, January 3. At that time, employees will have up to four hours to complete an orderly shutdown of operations. However, work required for the protection of life and property will continue, as will any work related to spectrum auctions, which is funded by auction proceeds. In addition, the Office of the Inspector General will continue operations until further notice. The Commission on Wednesday will release a Public Notice detailing the effects the suspension of operations will have, including on electronic filing and database systems, filing deadlines, regulatory and application fee payments, transaction shot clocks, and more. The Public Notice will be available on the Commission's website, www.fcc.gov.
Look at those list of qualifications for the things that are not really shut down.
Basically "anything that is really at all useful carries on".
That's just for the FCC but the general trend carries across the whole government.
For just one example - you can still update passports... and most national parks are still open.
I think this shutdown may last a while, because I 'm not sure there's much pain that most non-government people will see...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What shall we do without our precious FCC? How can we end this madness? How long can we live with this horrific government shutdown?
In all seriousness, it's just politics as usual. The 'scary' government shutdown can go on for months for all I care.
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.
What happened to that?
Firing up my pirate transmitter. Tune into 6925KHz.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
This is awesome! I like Trump more than ever!
Why should they? Donald Trump said Mexico would pay for it.
The TRUMP Shutdown keeps on giving! and giving! until WE! GET! THE! WALL! Roger Waters be damned to eternal damnation in a place where DEMs go when the die! Oh, and yes, the rain is eternal! The rain is eternal!
Just fund the wall that Americans want and need. Stop serving the interests of Mexico, Russia, and China.
Those countries don't care whether we have a wall or not. Mexico is fine with the wall, as long as we don't expect them to pay for it.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
But "useful" is a matter of degree and timing. For example, Federal permits are often required for various business activities. Many of those are being postponed, meaning businesses have to wait. It can muck up schedules, hurting profits.
I'm sure you have a personal "to do" list, and many of those items can be postponed some without much problem, but after a while it will catch up to you and cause direct problems.
But toiletry and garbage-related maintenance is on hold. I shouldn't have to explain the details of those downsides.
It's stupid that our system allows this so easily. It should have a cruise control mode that funds at existing levels until budget agreements are made. Stop throwing monkey wrenches into our civilization; I LIKE civilization. It seems many don't. Let's not #MakeCavesGreatAgain.
Table-ized A.I.
Why does Trump hate America? He wants to build a wall that most Americans don't want and certainly don't want to pay for.
You keep talking about Trump so much. Do you envision his cock inside your mouth?
The only reason Trump wants a wall is so he has a symbol of "something he did" (worthless as it is by itself anyway...) "against the migrants" - hoping as he does that it will overshadow his treason and decades in prison.
If it even 1/4 built by the time Trump dies in prison, assuming at all, I'll enjoy going down there and turning it into a modern art installation since it has no value as a barrier against migrants anyway. It's a moron's best idea.
Worthless. Shutting down the government over it is just Trump realizing he's got nothing else to do but wait for Mueller to cut his dick off and throw it in prison.
Most of the fentanyl from China is brought into Mexico as raw ingredients and then shipped across the border after the last stage of production. China loves being able to flood the country with ultra powerful dope.
Yeah, well us paying for it is still better than no wall.
Also, we could easily make Mexico pay for it by not giving them anymore money. We just allocated 10+ billion for Central America for improvements or whatever. We could start taxing the money illegals send back to Mexico. We could easily make them indirectly pay for it.
Shut down all the government and lets see how bad things reall do(n't) get.
That should give a good idea if we let the congresscritters balance the budget, or give it a few months then draw and quarter them. Politicians don't fall under the Constitution, just like legal and illegal immigrants, right? So it's not inhumane to commit unconstitutional acts against them! :)
Trump probably has a cabinet level position for you, but it depends - are you bad at your job and ideologically opposed to it being done properly? You're hired! Grope the secretary on your way out, she'll get you sorted.
I know we're all supposed to be angry at democrats/republicans ( depending on your allegiance of course ), but I just can't bring myself to be upset about the shutdown, or this particular aspect of it. Perhaps we should consider making this a more permanent state of affairs?
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
62% of Americans didn't vote for him in one form or another. Ergo, the majority of Americans don't want it.
I'm sure Verizon will advance you some cash... (sigh)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Clearly, this is FUCKing awesome, we'll be able to see TITS on TV like every other civilized country. Even our CUNT of a President is sometimes right, even if this PISSes off a lot of Puritanical COCKSUCKing MOTHERFUCKERS. Hope they SHIT their pants at the prospect.
Yeah, well us paying for it is still better than no wall.
Speak for yourself, or better yet, pony up on the gofundme and leave the rest of us out of it.
Also, we could easily make Mexico pay for it by not giving them anymore money.
Cool, so do that then and quit monkeywrenching.
If you like your Mexico paid for the wall, you can keep your Mexico paid for the wall.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is a radio clash live from satellite...
Oh, traditional communism. How about that. But how long can we expect them to keep that up?
Like I said, consequence is relative and time-related. Just because you can postpone something doesn't mean it has no consequence. I can postpone dental visits for a year or so, but if I never went to a dentist, I'd probably have screwy or missing teeth. (Then again, some rural people seem to view such as a badge of honor for reasons that escape me.)
Whether the gov't is too big or too small in general is probably another debate for another time. Let's try to focus on specifics here. And nobody agrees on what parts are too big. The military is too is big by some accounts, I would note.
Table-ized A.I.
Just fund the wall that Americans want and need.
Sigh. Anonymous Coward - Over and over and over and over and OVER again, Trump made it clear that MEXICO was going to pay for the wall. He made it clear that his fantastic negotiating skills will make that a reality.
All we're doing is holding him to his promise.
A promise *every* Trump supporter repeated back to me throughout 2016 and a lot of 2017.
Is that so hard? All he has to do is do what he said: Head to Mexico, and return with a check for $40 Billion dollars for the wall.
The only reason Trump wants a wall
I thought it was "slats" now? Whatever those are.
70% of people polled don't want to pay for Trump's 2000 mile long penis extension. "Do you think maybe he's compensating for something?" -- Shrek
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Most of the fentanyl from China is mailed directly into the US, but thanks for playing!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Largely because they're using funds left over. The Smithsonian, for instance, will close on the 2nd or 3rd of Jan IIRC because of lack of funds. I imagine the national parks will close as well.
All the outdoor parks and memorials will remain open because there's no need to close them. Trees keep growing, rivers keep flowing...
Just wait. All those school trips to the Smithsonian will start kicking in sometime after the holiday break, and you'll see stories of disappointed kids in the news.
Disappointed children from the richest counties in the nation is press that helps Trump though, so it will quickly die off.
The best possible scenario here is for Trump to do zip, he gets massive bad press
And here is where you discover exactly why it's super bad to have journalists deliver massive bad press on a subject 24x7 - because when the subject does deserve it, absolutely no-one pays attention or cares.
both parties come together to over-ride his veto.
That is actually what Trump is hoping for and would assure him a 20/20 victory. Funny how many people that hate Trump so badly, seem to take steps to ensure him achieving whatever victory he desires...
If they had just quietly paid for the wall they could have plastered him with the failure of it in 2020. Here's a big 'ol tactical clue for Democrats: Half-assed wall is way better for the Democrats than zero wall. Trump has got more benefit out of a fictional wall than Pink Floyd!
Some people claim that True is playing eight-dimensional chess. I think he's just an average guy who managed to work his way into the kingdom of the sub-level morons.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is how it works with most of government. They want something, the public doesn't. Say they want to raise a gas tax, the people say no, then the state "punishes" the people by shutting off services. Same with the fed...the PUBLIC wants a wall, the deep state doesn't. (republicans want illegals here to depress wages. democrats want them here to prop up welfare & illegal or legal voters rolls). So, the "government" shuts down things like parks, VA, and on and on to "punish" them. Until people get fed up, and start making government afraid of the people, with a 90+ percent reelection rate, you think the government gives a crap what the people want?
Why are the executive branch and congress still receiving full pay and benefits?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Glad to see dems not being spineless. Only 4 days to go
let's continue this study of the inconsequential national government
Trump doesn't seem to understand that we are responsible for a good portion of the civil wars and political unrest that they're escaping from. We fund whichever side suits our current administrations interests. Just look at Iran/Contra. We were selling weapons to Iran to support the contra's. I still think North was a scapegoat, he may have been involved but not to the extent they made it out to be.
While I don't object to protocols I'm no fan of the FCC. I should be able to operate a radio station without asking government permission. I should be able to transmit data across town without asking government permission. Undoubtedly the tools to make it work should be developed such that all have equal access to the radio waves via chipsets that can intelligently direct packets to other devices not terribly unlike what we can already do with wireless networks and/or mesh networking today. The idea you should have to pay for access to use the airwaves via companies granted monopolies over sections of the airwaves is a dated concept.
Micro Dick? Maybe that's why he has to go to prostitutes? They're paid to at least act like he's fulfilling them.
actually does anything worthwhile.
Corporatism != Free Market
As an amateur radio licensee, this kind of pisses me off because this will cause a huge back log of new licensee applications and new hams will have to wait longer for their call sign. To me, communications are critical. The Federal Bureaucracy is so bloated, surely there is an agency that is much lower down the food chain that would not be so mission critical.
Oh, traditional communism. How about that. But how long can we expect them to keep that up?
Nope, under communism, no-one had the means or ability to clean up environmental disasters as they happened, because they could hardly take care of themselves.
Only under a system of capitalism to do see enough excess resources created to enable people to take care of the land, and each other,
This is why former communist nations were horrible environmental disaster areas.
This is why capitalists contribute far more to charity than others.
This is why park cleanup is being done as long as is needed by volunteers, because they are well enough enough themselves personally they can do so.
Thank you for providing me a reason to teach this important lesson to others.
The military is too is big by some accounts, I would note.
Not according to the many Democrats crying at our intent to leave Syria and draw down in Afghanistan...
Maybe go ask them why a huge military is so important, because MANY Trump supporters would in fact agree the military is too large. Or were you not paying attention to what Trump himself has said, vs. what others say about him...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
There are pictures. We will see if the rumor is true that it would not even make it past the teeth
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Nope. I aint payin for some bullshit metal slats in the middle of the fucking desert. Fuck that. No, FUCK that.
No money from Mexico, no wall. That was the promise, which has now been exposed as just another lie from trump to his brain dead supporters.
Keep it closed until he leaves office or gets impeached for all I care. trumptards can suck on this one. It's their own fault for voting for loser trump.
trump's administration is so corrupt and ineffectual that the government might as well be closed anyway.
CC To Suspend Most Operations Thursday
And given the current FCC leadership, nothing of value was lost.
Better known as 318230.
But over time you can't expect federal workers in "essential" positions to continue working without pay.
All actually essential functions would receive emergency funding if truly needed, even if the workers did not take advantage of the many free loan options they have. Remember they are still going to receive all the pay they would have had they been working, so those loans are paid back as soon as the shutdown is over.
Do taxes stop being collected? No? Well then the government actually has money to pay whoever it likes, doesn't it?
Oh and it the reason the coast guard got money at all was Trump intervened to make that happen...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I aint payin for some bullshit metal slats in the middle of the fucking desert. Fuck that. No, FUCK that.
No money from Mexico, no wall. That was the promise, which has now been exposed as just another lie from trump to his brain dead supporters.
Keep it closed until he leaves office or gets impeached for all I care. trumptards can suck on this one. It's their own fault for voting for loser trump.
trump's administration is so corrupt and ineffectual that the government might as well be closed anyway.
What I want to know is, why do trump and his trumptards hate America so much that they would sell us all out to the Russians?
LOL@vword: TIMBER yep, you said it...humpty trumpty is falling down, tiimmmmmmmberrrrr
No. America voted for a man who promised a wall paid for by Mexico.
Even if Mexico *were* to pay for it, the Trump Administration would need authorization from Congress because that's how the Constitution works. If Trump finds 5 billion bucks in the White House sofa cushions he couldn't just spend it; it'd have to go into the treasury and await appropriation, just like taxpayer money.
In every democracy I know of the legislature passes an annual budget which sets spending limits and priorities. It then creates authorizing legislation that creates or continues programs which spend the money. Finally it passes some kind of appropriation legislation which allows the money to actually be spent. Appropriation is the final step that allows the legislature to tweak exactly where the budgeted money goes.
In most countries failure to pass an appropriation bill requires the government to resign and call general elections, so it seldom happens. In the US this is not the case, but until around 1980, appropriations bills never failed. After 1980 frequency of appropriations bill failures have gradually increased, but the issues have always been things like tax increases or disagreements over whether budgeted and authorized spending should actually go forth.
This is the first government shutdown in US history where the objective was to spend money that was never budgeted.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
If they build it out of crack cocaine, it may work as a win-win
Seems to me a perfectly workable compromise could exist here. Trump could agree to no additional funding for the wall, while the Democrats could agree to redirect all social services spending (i.e. food stamps, housing assistance, education funding, medical assistance, etc.) currently being spent on people here illegally, being spent instead on building a wall and repatriating those not here lawfully.
Otherwise knows as the American Republic. It has three branches of government rather than one and no branch by itself gets to change the course of the country. That is by design and while it's imperfect it has prevented the rise of totalitarian leaders.
In order for a leader to push through major changes he is or she must have either the overwhelming support of the American people, or a strong coalition of allies. Building a coalition is hard work and requires compromise. The president does not have the popular support necessary to force through his agenda and neither he or his party are willing to compromise.
I do not block ads. I do block third party scripts.
My guess is you never knew anything the FCC actually did, so you have no idea.
I do, but apparently you did not since your claim requires stating what is important they are not continuing operations on.
Except the EPA isn't monitoring pollution
Companies are still legally responsible for pollution so it's not like they are doing to start while monitoring is suspended.
the FDA isn't approving drugs
Fake News, applications still being processed.
Social Security is shut down (if you're on it you keep getting checks, but you cannot get on it)
Fake news, that kind of bullshit only happens under Democrats who want you to think the government is more important than it is or in fact stoppable. Applications will be processed, just with some delay.
you can still update passports...
At consulates, not everywhere.
More fake news, can mail a passport in from anywhere to get renewed or apply at any USPS office
For a guy whose handle claims they always RTFA that is a LOT of background reading you did not do before throwing out a lot of unfounded assertions!!!!
Most national parks have some pre-shutdown funding still available. They'll all be closed if this keeps going on
Takes money to shut down most parks. Why even close them? The stuff Obama did was just plain mean, like putting barricades around national monuments you could just walk up to. None of that happening this time.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
All actually essential functions would receive emergency funding if truly needed,
I'm wondering where you think that emergency funding will come from. The Constitutional mechanism we're dealing with here is that the Executive Branch can't spend money without legislative approval. Now you may be able to pull some treasury sleight of hand to move approved spending to specific purposes, but in the US treasury functions are also tightly controlled by Congress (e.g. securitizing debts).
That's what DHS has done with the Coast Guard; it's searched under the sofa cushions and found already appropriated money to pay the last paycheck of the year. Trump can't simply order DHS to continue paying the Coasties indefinitely; he doesn't have the authority.
Finally, there is no guarantee that furloughed federal workers will receive anything, although in the past it has been customary to award them back pay, that's a norm not a rule. In fact Trump has floated the idea of using money "saved" by the shutdown to pay for the wall.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Sounds like a great time to have our SDRs piss all over the spectrum!
It may be lack of democracy and free speech. Totalitarians treat citizens as expendable pawns
Yes, that's what I said, communists.
Besides, I said "traditional communism", not Soviet-style.
Oh no you don't.
Name ONE COMMUNIST COUNTRY, of any form, that has not brought about vast ecological disaster.
You are focusing on one narrow aspect of the military.
Whatever, warmonger. I was for getting out of Afghanistan (and Syria) before Trump was even a thing.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No, Trump lost the popular vote. No candidate won that and even among the losers, Trump was behind Clinton.
By will of the people, Trump lost and basically weaseled his way in on a technicality AGAINST the will of the people.
Now you may be able to pull some treasury sleight of hand to move approved spending to specific purposes,
Bingo.
Finally, there is no guarantee that furloughed federal workers will receive anything
Wrong. The fix is in.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
this stops the FCC from destroying more of America.
NOW, ideally, it is time to EPA to announce a shutdown, at least at the top.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Yep
Which is better, canceling your vacation while nothing's happening
Cancelling your vacation to make something happen, before everyone else in the whole federal government gets back from vacation...
That is what was so despicable about what Democrats did, they did not even TRY to resolve anything during this week, ensuring the shutdown would affect everyone in the weeks ahead instead of mostly not being an issue because of the holiday.
That is why it's the Democrats looking like a fat, angry toddlers here... imagine how low you have become when Trump looks like the adult in the room. That is what has happened here, and it was something the Democrats did to themselves.
Trump at work while the Democrats play...
Remember, these were the first government shutdowns every to happen while one party controlled both congress and the White House.
Here is where you fail to think strategically - the shutdowns happened after Democrats won a large election. That is what people mostly think, despite the fact the new house members don't start until the new year.
The Republicans also all voted for the spending bill; if just ten democrats had supported it would have passed. Not to mention we had the meeting with Trump and the Democrats leaders where the whole country saw plainly it was between Trump and the Democrats, the Republicans are out o the mental picture (control or no).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Your assumption is flawed. Plenty of voters are one-issue people. I.e. Even if they do want a wall, but they're pro-abortion (just as an example) they'll vote for the person keeping abortion even if that person is not for a wall.
You don't get to just say "62% didn't vote for him so they don't want a wall". It doesn't work like that and the fact that you do think it works that way.. well, that's a failure on your part.
But, we both know you're a liberal and facts don't count as much as feelz, so if it makes you good to say "62% blah blah blah" you'll say it.. 'cause it FEEEEELZ!
It's not a technicality you asshole. It's the way the system was set up from the start. Nothing has changed. You simply don't understand WHY it was set up the way it was set up, and that makes you an uneducated moron.
Leave us out of it? Really? You're already funding them by paying your taxes.
We're all (well those that paid in) already paying for those that got past the "Finish Line". Those that think the wall costs taxpayers should do some research to see how much it costs to clothe/feed/house/hospitalize illegal aliens that could have been blocked by said wall.
This was from ABC which isn't friendly to the conservative right:
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317
The states where the illegals wind up... bear the brunt of the cost.
And I'm not even talking about the impact they bring to us via drugs, crime and disease.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/26/illegals-commit-crimes-double-rate-native-born-stu/
(And for those of you saying "you're one too" screw you one side of my family came through ellis island and the other side was here before Columbus sailed the ocean blue)
Calm down Dragnet
Polls are BS. We had an election
And the election proved that polls are BS
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Fentanyl doses are measured in micrograms. The street price of fentanyl amounts to about $1600 per gram. If you wanted to smuggle a million dollars of fentanyl past the wall you could just hand it through one of the fence slats or toss it over the wall. Or hide it in one of the millions of tons of cargo that are shipped into the US.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Trump lost the popular vote
Means nothing. Who is sitting in the White House today? QED.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Over 500 billion a year spent on the military to supposedly protect America, yet 30million illegals+ are here, a disproportionate (per-capita) on handouts and committing crimes literally killing/hurting citizens.
Personally I'd install a DMZ like between the Koreas, pennies on the dollar, but more importantly direct local officers to roundup all the illegals for deportation and confiscation of their assets(legal already=$ for wall+) using DMV, socialmedia and cellular data. No proof of right to be here, and don't speak native english? then out you go(sort it out in their origin nation).
If your a middle-upper class programmer/intellectual you might not see this.. Smart people can generally get along, but the masses when forced together that diversity breeds resentment, stress, and it's a powder keg..
I say: President tear down this wall! Let all who want to come here for any reason whatsoever. Our Social Security system can handle all from all over the world. We will pay for all your kids and grandkids and everything will be great! Dogs and cats living together in harmony! What could be better?
That... after the liberal left demanded to know where the funding would come from and forced him to find an answer that wouldn't immediately impact the taxpayers. No political applicant would state that in the middle of a campaign.
Only the "liberal left?"
Fact check Anonymous Coward: During ANY election where a candidate proposes new spending, they have to explain where the funding will come from.
For example, in the 2016 campaign, when Hillary Clinton proposed free tuition to state colleges for families earning under $125K she outlined exactly how the USA would pay for it (via changes to the tax code.)
and we can look to NC to learn that elections can also be BS
Every time the Federal government "shuts down" all the "essential" services keep running normally. 70%+ of the federal government is running right now in this "shut down".
The press and politicians call this a "shut down" as part of a very dishonest scam to stir-up public reactions. We've had these phony shut downs over 20 times in the past couple of decades, and the only impact the average American feels is a few closed parks and museums. In fact, this scam is so phony that when government "shut down" under Obama (supposedly because government cannot spend any money that has not yet been congressionally authorized) President Obama actually spent money sending park officers to go and put up barriers around some of the outdoor monuments in Washington DC, like the WWII memorial, in order to anger the public (so much for not being able to spend money). Trump, incidentally, has not been this disgustingly dishonest.
In every "shut down" all "essential" services and all safety-related services continue running. Everything classed as "non-essential" shuts down --- which is mighty handy for us taxpayers who get to see what parts of the government are not essential and should probably be left shutdown.
REMEMBER: All the parts of governnment that are shutdown right now are parts that the government itself has declared "non-essential".
You treasonous Trump faggots should be cut in half and your worthless obese ancient organs sold off to China to pay for the shutdown your traitor hero thinks will stop him from going to prison
We actually already have barriers along a significant portion of the border where it makes sense to have one. I agree this is a political stunt, but so is the Senate Dems refusing to advance the Appropriations bill to a vote.
Anyway we'll see what the jackoffs in Congress do about it in a couple days. Probably a bunch more Pontificating from both sides, and a bunch of imbeciles among the general public dutifully lining up to get fucked up the ass by their Party of choice.
This is your big chance, everyone. With the freakin' FCC out of action for a bit, you can finally do stuff like; you no longer have to tinkle; you can finally take a piss. Fellatio no longer must be called a trouser friendly kiss...
etc, etc...
This space unintentionally left blank.
And three trillion dollars Bush spent on the Iraq war.
and yes a district of spain had a communist government and it did not have a disaster of any sort till franco invaded and ended the government.
That is ignoring the fact that no one believes the wall will be effective at all.
Most illegal immigration occurs via ports of call or other sources than the southern border.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/%3famp=1
Also illegal immigration is way down at the lowest rates since 2004. This is a knee jerk reaction to save face
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.amp.html
Nope. I aint payin for some bullshit metal slats in the middle of the fucking desert. Fuck that. No, FUCK that.
Fuck you. If I have to pay for your fucking healthcare, you can pay for the fucking wall you cunt.
I would be willing to bet that if he closed off the Southern Border for an extended period of time, Mexico would be more than willing to negotiate payments for said wall.
Quite a bit of money flows back into Mexico's economy from legal / illegals working here in the US.
You cut that cash flow off and they'll change their tune in a hurry.
The reason our system allows this so easily is to encourage lawmakers to compromise. Because presumably legislation and programs which have already been passed are likely to be more valuable than new legislation up for consideration. So nobody in their right mind would hold existing programs hostage as a ploy to try to get new programs passed.
Unfortunately, control of the country has fallen into the hands of extremist ideologues. That's what a two party system does - shifts power away from the center and towards the extremists. Take a bell curve and the power (bulk of the mass) is in the center. But split the belt curve down the middle, and the two new centers of mass are now closer to the extremes. Thus this sort of funding brinksmanship in order to push radical ideas is becoming the norm, rather than the exception.
Before:
Verizon: Hey, we're going to make everyone pay to access services other than our own, and throttle Netflix to MODEM speeds. MWAHAHAHAHA!
FCC: Oh, OK, Have fun
After:
Verizon: Hey, we're going to make everyone pay to access services other than our own, and throttle Netflix to MODEM speeds. MWAHAHAHAHA!
FCC: *snore*
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Oh and just as a reminder, all Presidents lie, not just Republicans.
Most recent case in point, a few from Obama off the top of my head:
His promise to close Guantanamo.
Went on Jay Leno and proclaimed " There is no spying on Americans " after the Snowden revelations.
If you like your doctor / healthcare plan, you can keep them.
Moral of this story: Presidents can promise you anything, the problem is people keep believing it.
Just fund the wall that Americans want and need.
Sigh. Anonymous Coward - Over and over and over and over and OVER again, Trump made it clear that MEXICO was going to pay for the wall. He made it clear that his fantastic negotiating skills will make that a reality.
All we're doing is holding him to his promise.
A promise *every* Trump supporter repeated back to me throughout 2016 and a lot of 2017.
Is that so hard? All he has to do is do what he said: Head to Mexico, and return with a check for $40 Billion dollars for the wall.
It's not even that. Just because Trump ran on the idea of the wall doesn't mean the Democrats need to give him a wall for nothing. In addition to electing Trump voters also elected Democrats in the Senate and those Senators needs to agree to wall funding, just like Obama needed GOP support for many of his policies.
And Democrats were actually willing to give Trump $25 billion in wall funding, which he desperately wanted, in exchange for DACA, which Trump also claimed to have wanted.
Of course Trump took all of 2 minutes to break his word and blow up that deal also
I stole this Sig
Fact check: Only partway through his campaign did he mention that Mexico would fund it. That wasn't an initial campaign promise only the "wall" was. That... after the liberal left demanded to know where the funding would come from and forced him to find an answer that wouldn't immediately impact the taxpayers.
Asking how you intend to pay for your signature campaign promise.
A classic gotcha question.
I stole this Sig
Well, the argument he's using is that the new Nafta deal is better for US to the tune of 1 Border Wall.
A dubious claim, but no more than the idea that tax cuts for private jet owners qualify as "tax reform".
If you squint and look sideways at it, it can appear that he kept his promises, and that's all Fox News needs to spin it to the maga-hats.
No, Trump lost the popular vote. No candidate won that and even among the losers, Trump was behind Clinton.
By will of the people, Trump lost and basically weaseled his way in on a technicality AGAINST the will of the people.
Trump was only 2.1% shy of Hillary Clinton in the popular vote. That's roughly the equivalent of the population of Chicago difference between the two candidates, which given the size of the United States isn't exactly an overwhelming will of the people as leftists keep insisting. The will of the people is embodied in our constitution and laws which among other things, define the electoral process by which presidents have been elected for hundreds of years. Trump didn't lose, and there was no technicality involved in his victory. Even an idiot knows that.
Your loyalty is admirable, yet, you are clearly too intelligent to rally behind this Trump fellow
I am not rallying behind Trump. I have always been, and shall remain, a Libertarian...
What I am laying out is the raw honesty of the tactical situation. Just because Trump has behaved better tactically does not mean I am necessarily for him - I have always wanted both sides to do well, because I want balance.
But the Democrats seem to exhibit zero situational awareness of the optics of the actions they take, and I think all too often are pushed into a frenzy of madness and the wrong corner simply because it happens to be the opposite place Trump has chosen to be...
That is how we find ourselves in a place where many Democrats are proclaiming we should carry on endless war and stay in Syria and Afghanistan! How many would have said that a year ago?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You mean, the way Reagan sponsored the cutthroats in Latin America with money he found dumped on his sofa by the ayatollah of Iran would now be unacceptable to the Republican majority?
Ain't that sad?
And as the other AC points out, we'll be paying for them AND the useless wall if Trump gets his way. The cost of the illegals is irrelevant to this discussion because they will be here with or without the wall.
As for the drugs, those come in by submarine, tunnels, and catapult. The wall won't do much for any of those routes.
So, time for Trump to fulfill the whole promise and get Mexico to pay for it if he wants it so bad. Otherwise, if you want it so bad, pony up.
Trump could agree to no additional funding for the wall, while the Democrats could agree to redirect all social services spending (i.e. food stamps, housing assistance, education funding, medical assistance, etc.) currently being spent on people here illegally, being spent instead on building a wall and repatriating those not here lawfully.
Illegal aliens don't get foodstamps or housing assistance. The only medical care they can get is Medicaid for pregnant women giving birth in the US.
Education is paid for by local taxes (usually property and sales) which illegal immigrants pay almost always. And anyway the US has to provide secondary education to everybody.
A milk jug full of pure fentanyl is enough to give a hit to every junkie in the US. That's how powerful it is.
His promise to close Guantanamo.
And he tried to do that. The craven Congress denied him funds for that.
Not really, they are paid to fulfill him.
Let's just say that Trump was lying about Mexico paying for it. Should we forgo border security just so that we can continue to pretend that he wasn't lying?
Pretty much every promise made during campaigning is a lie. It's been that way for multiple terms of multiple presidents - yet people continue to pretend that the promises mean anything.
In the mean time we're going to not fund the wall and forgo border security just so that we can pretend that Trump's campaign promises meant something.
Fund border security and don't re-elect Trump because he's a lying liar - like most of his predecessors.
I LIKE freedom, I want all government to shut down, stop stealing money from people, stop redistributing the stolen proceeds, stop controlling people.
You can't handle the truth.
Fuck You. Get Mexico to pay for it, that was the campaign promise.
Also, anyone who pays for something owns that something. Therefore Mexico will own the wall and can do anything they want with it. Anything. Including deciding to not build it.
Oh, guess what? Mexico has already said they do not want a wall and will not pay for one.
How about tell Trump to go fuck himself and watch as Democrats use their subpoena power to do some real investigations not involving Hillary's emails.
Uhhh ... go review how U.S. presidents are elected - it wasn't a technicality and nowhere is the election of the president claimed to be decided by direct democracy.
Your vote is *more* significant with the electoral college than without it. Election fraud is much easier with a direct democracy.
Yeah, you might feel sad that "the majority" didn't decide something the way you wanted it, but we all end up there. This is why people that understand government are always promoting *limited* power (like the original Constitution) even when the candidate they voted for gets elected. If you give the government too much power when your favorite is in office then what happens with that power when your least-favorite candidate gets elected in the future? What happens when that official is 2,000 miles from where you can go camp-out on their doorstep and let them know that you don't support their policies?
Limit government power and bring it back to the individual states and people - where it's easier to influence when policies are bad.
Mexico's not that fucking stupid to pay for a wall. Only certain idiots would think they would.
I'll bet you even more that he doesn't have a clue how to close off the Southern border.
LOL, Trump in 2018 averaged 15 lies a day. Unfortunately for him it's all in his tweets for the world to see.
In America, what you see is what you get.
Apparently, America does not want a wall. It's not just Democrats. Republicans are not 100% on board.
Appreciate that politicians are effective at only one thing: Survival.
So, the reason there's not enough support for the wall is that constituents will kick out those who support it.
Trump's core is actually very tiny, like his hands.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
3 guys sleeping on their desks, 1 desk empty. One guy says "See? I told you Fred was non-essential".
That's pretty much how I view these shutdowns. The asshats responsible not only get paid on time, with their salon, jacuzzi, steam room, and health benefits. They don't look around afterwards and say "Hmm, these people are non-essential, we got ourselves a budget issue . Mebbe we can do without half of them and save some money."
That's okay. We've decided we're okay with paying for the wall. Not all of us Trump voters are inflexible assholes. We can roll with the times. We'd also like you to get the fuck out.
I'm reporting on the gofundme, "We The People Will Fund The Wall":
--
The gofundme crowdsourcing page is at 14 million dollars at this writing (12/21/2018 @ 11:24 PM CST), contributed by 227,989 people over 5 days.
Doing a linear extrapolation, it will take 357 days to reach the goal of 1 billion dollars, and 16.4 million people
.
That's fuzzy math because the sample size is very small. So far, the average donation is $61.40.
Gofundme gets 2.9% of the total funds raised plus 30 cents per donation.
That's $29,000,000 plus (assuming 16.4 million donations) $4,920,000 for a total of $33,920,000.
--
12-29-2018, 11:04 AM
Goal $1,000,000,000
Current Donations $18,060,906
Current People 297,520
Current Days 12
People/Day 24,793
Donations/Day $1,505,076
Days Til Goal 664
People Til Goal 197,677,791
--
Today, 12-31-2018, 9:34 PM
Goal $1,000,000,000
Current Donations 18,495,710
Current People 305,416
Current Days 14
People/Day 21,815
Donations/Day $1,321,122
Days Til Goal 757
People Til Goal 231,179,230
Average donation has moved to $60.50.
So, good luck with that shit.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
GLHF Hope you come up with something so these years of screaming don't make you guys look stupid..
Oh my fucking god. The "popular vote" is what losers whine about when their chosen candidate doesn't win by the rules that have been in place since Thomas fucking Jefferson was running for office.
Stop trying to move the goalposts and instead do something that matters. Volunteer for a campaign and make sure that the right bum gets voted into Congress to block this shitty President's agenda. Volunteer in 2020 to hammer in some lawn signs or knock on doors to select his replacement.
But for fucks sake, stop bleating about the "popular vote" like it's actually a thing, because it's not. Nobody gives a shit if your candidate can run up the score in California and New York- you get the same credit for 51% in those states as you do for 80%.
Winners pay attention to the rules in place, and don't cry about the rules that never were. Just fucking stop already.
Theoretically illegal aliens aren't supposed to be able to apply on their own, but in fact about 60% do receive public assistance. Certain states with a lot of illegal immigrants, which are known for being liberal and flouting federal law regarding immigration and drugs, go ahead and hand out the money. Also someone who is legal will apply and have six dependents in their household. The six dependents don't have to be legal.
Like a mythical wall in the desert?
Not tea bag of a plan there. You know the humanitarians will get in a hussy fit over it.
The trump FCC is basically just increasing profit for the big ISPs right now anyway, so this may be one of the few good things to come out of this debacle.
Consumers and the small ISPs may regain some ground with the FCC down for a while.
America voted for a wall.
By kicking Republicans out of the branch of government that controls the budget?
2 meter here we come
This post is serving the interests of Russia encouraging an easy swayed president that ends up taking orders from far right (to the point of nut jobs) talk show hosts
Here's food for thought:
It took the Nazis 10 years to round up and murder 6-8 million people. They had the full force of the Gestapo and local police to enforce their will. They didn't have to bother with courts or any such rule of law nonsense.They also had the help of government records, in both Germany and in the lands they conquered/annexed. And yet it still took them 10 years.
What you are proposing eclipses that in scope of people and area. So good luck, you will need to turn American into the Fourth Reich to achieve it and it will still take you over a decade.
Excellent, shut it down, then I can freely murder you, and no one can stop me. You free to stop me, but I'm not sure how much you can abandon your job as I slip poison into your children's or wife's food. Should be fun. Maybe I can show up at your business and give them the new law enforcement (protection racket) explanation.
Or maybe you can skip the libertarian/anarchist fantasy.
Mexico is paying for the wall, dumbass. Trump already got them to do it via increased tariffs and fees.
Now he just needs to get the Democrats to let him spend the money on a project the vast majority of Americans support. (A recent poll found that only around 15% of Americans object to the wall - the rest range from not really caring if it gets built to strongly supporting it.)
> My background: I'm a legal immigrant and I actually researched that stuff before immigration, in case I needed it.
Welcome. I bet you thoroughly researched what you're entitled to, what you're supposed to get. Here's the thing - illegal immigrants are not *allowed* to be in the country, yet they are. What they are *allowed* to do and what they actually do are very different. By the very definition of "illegal immigrant".
Quoting from the State of New York web site:
----- ..
Whether illegal aliens can obtain state benefits is not clear-cut. The short answer appears to be that they are not legally entitled to most benefits, but do in fact receive them.
A fair interpretation of the federal statute and state regulation must result in the conclusion that illegal aliens should not receive any form of state public assistance. However, illegal aliens do, in fact, receive state public benefits. That's because the burden of determining lawful status in the U.S. is on the shoulders of county social services employees who have neither the legal jurisdiction nor the practical ability to determine one's immigration status. Only an immigration official or federal worker whom the Secretary of Homeland Security has authorized may determine the immigration status of a person in the country.
----
> That's up to states, they can't dole out federal money to illegals.
It's unlawful for them to release people who are fugitives from the feds, but they do it. It's official written policy in many places. They "can't" issue cards allowing people to sell illegal drugs, but they do it. It's not lawful to dole out federal money to these same illegal immigrants, but it is common.
Quoting Politifact:
--
Cortes said "We have right now ⦠in the state of California, 55 percent of all immigrants are on public assistance."
Thatâ(TM)s true of households but not individual immigrants.
--
Here's an interesting study (not an objective source, but reasonable methodology)
https://cis.org/Report/63-NonC...
Mexico bought $250 Billion worth of American goods and services last year alone.
Thousands upon thousands of American jobs depend on selling things to Mexico,
You want to end that trade and kill those jobs for what?
They definitely get free medical care at emergency rooms. I have a friend who works at the local public hospital, and she says most of the emergency room traffic and many admitted patients are illegals.
Also, Nashville schools give all students free lunch, and many are illegals. I know kids who are illegal- born in Mexico but raised here from a young age.
Yes, illegals get government benefits. Sorry.
Do you have ESP?
Society will not shut down just because government shuts down. The police is not what prevents murders, wealth prevents murders and a free society produces more wealth. You are welcome to come and try to kill me of course, nothing would make my day better than another corpse of someone who tried hanging from a post.
You can't handle the truth.
Already came up with a number of convictions. Seems like a target rich environment.
You are really wound up. You just sit in your basement and shake with rage don't you?
The polls were BS because people were ashamed to admit who they were voting for.
The polarizing nature seems to go through cycles, based on 240 years of history. There are probably ways to dampen it, but the fixes would probably take a Constitutional amendment, which are very difficult to pass. Ridding gerrymandering would help. Let a computer draw district maps or limit the polygons to say 6 lines.
Table-ized A.I.
Are we building a wall in the Bering Sea?
That... after the liberal left demanded to know where the funding would come from and forced him to find an answer that wouldn't immediately impact the taxpayers.
I'm surprised, did Hillary hold a gun to him? Typical Hillary, tries pass tougher gun control laws but is a pistol packing mama.
Remember kids, only the very first campaign promise counts. Any others made during the run up to election are null and void because reasons.
Please for the love of all that is holy stop this "Mexico" crap. They are a debtor nation and part of the problem that assaults our southern border.
Funny how we're so much alike! The US is a debtor nation and Mexico also has problems with its own southern border.
providing education and health care to a few dozen people that decided it was OK to break out the back window of your house..
Sounds like the white kids in my affluent neighborhood.
Once you accept a half-dozen or so humans then let us know how it's going on your singular effort to absorb the mass of illegals moving north.
My parents accepted 3 about six years ago, and this is in Michigan. Is that far enough north for you?
(Choke on your own gonads)
I would be willing to bet that if he closed off the Southern Border for an extended period of time, Mexico would be more than willing to negotiate payments for said wall.
Yeah but then how would Donald Trump sell his stuff? I mean most of it is made in Mexico.
And who, pray tell, would even notice?
It's stupid that our system allows this so easily.
This right here. Other countries have in their constitution that bills of appropriation for government services can not deal with any matter other than appropriation for government services. I.e. you want to fund the wall, it has to be separate from the agreement that keeps the government running.
The good news is, we don't judge you for being a retard.
Tariffs are paid at the receiving end, so that's getting Americans to pay for it. It makes Mexican goods less competitive, but that might be a boon for Canadians, Chinese, or Chileans as much as Americans.
The Democrats can't do anything about this as both the senate and the house are Republican controlled. It's not until Thursday when a new congress is sworn in that Democrats take control of the house. The last 2 weeks Trump has been blaming Democrats for not funding the wall when it fact it's been the Republicans.
Losing by 2.1% is plainly not an overwhelming vote FOR a wall, though. Anyway, Trump said that a president that didn't win the popular vote wasn't really president. This was before he didn't win the popular vote, of course.
How about the Democrats give Trump and this Representative Democracy Constitutional Republic of The United States of America its proper US Constitution Article IV Section 4 protection against invasion (and protection again resultant violence on domestic US ground when the illegals use force against US border security)? Yes, for all the clammoring about "our Democracy", it's designed as REPRESENTATIVE and therefore a Republic.
Mexico isn't going to pay for the wall directly, but after it's built there is always Trump (and future presidents) MASSIVELY TARRIFING all items Product of Mexico or even Made in Mexico imported into the US. ICE and the US Border Patrol are insufficient in number and weaponry, the US military shouldn't need to have to defend the border as a backup against a mass threat of invasion (an approching caravan), and the current border fence is all too readily breachable. We as a nation also, plain and simple, don't need Democrats fighting incrementally and aggressively for a PURE Democracy when even STATES operate as Republics (Assembly, Senate, Governor, note all state laws are by popular vote only), California state flag even reads California Republic while other states operate that way but don't openly show it on their flag. The immediate warning of how aggressive Democrats will fight, literally fight, was the10 days of disruptance protests even escalating to violence when Trump won the presidency by a proper Electoral College win, including calls to eliminate the Electoral College.
The two party system doesn't even need to exist anymore at all, as long as Republicans maintain a Republican form of Government as mentioned in Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States. Trump should ideally start jailing the resisting Democrats for US Constitutional violations... or they could resign... and then reconvene the government will a minimum quorum as per US House and US Senate rules. Otherwise, it's like keeping the enemy within but Democrats having yet risen to Coup d'etet levels of obstruction and overthrow. But then, liberals would accuse Trump of fascism when in fact that's another valid and maybe overdue way to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America (as required in Article II Section 1 Oath of Office) especially pertaining to Article IV Section 4.
After all, DACA is just a backdoor for indefinity illegal residency, often relying on their honor to comply with the laws. Yeah, right. It's long overdue to not allow DACA, DREAM, or even asylum to otherwise illegal aliens of any nation (not just Mexico) unless a proven life-threatening reason exists... and even then they shouldn't get EXPRESS priviliege toward citizenship.
You'd lose that bet since even the average person can imagine giving an order under an appropriate presidential power.
The details are for three letter agencies to figure out. ICE, DOD, etc...
next to your name, if you are in government you will exempt yourself from the laws you write and enforce against others.
Consider:
[a] The Pelosi and Schumer congress exempted itself from Obamacare. Why do that if it was medical nirvana?
[b] In the era of the military draft, congress protected college kids as supposedly more valuable to society than non-college kids. Most members of congress then made sure their kids stayed in college.
[c] Bill Clinton was not impeached for lying about ice cream - he lied in a sexual harrassment suit against him, not long after advocating for and signing into law a bill that required men to testify truthfully about their entire sexual histories in any sexual harrassment lawsuit (he clearly thought HIS law should not apply to HIM)
These come to mind immediately, but there are countless examples - ones that make Democrats look vile, ones that make Republicans look vile, and ones that make all of them look vile.
Ultimately, these issues are really about undermining one of the most basic principles of Western Civilization: The Magna Carta in which the principle was established that even the king is subject to the laws. Our civilization will not long endure the trashing of this principle - we're currently still functional because the majority of people still hold to the princple and expect it enforced, but if the majority gets to believeing that the principle is forever gone, the elites will have a lot to worry about since they and their fortunes and power cannot survive a true large-scale rebellion by the masses.
Umm...you do intend to retire some day, yes? Are you aware the U.S. is generating new people at below the replacement rate which means that when you retire, you can count on reduced benefits, including Medicare and SS? One way out of this dilemma is to welcome immigrants into the country. They want to come here, they want to work. It would be the Christian thing to do...errr...that is if you are not an Evangelical.
Ok but...
Counterpoint: Introducing nazis into the discussion may not be the thread-winning strategy you think it is.
Didn't they shut it down by gutting it and putting anti-environment people in charge already?
How about the Democrats give Trump and this Representative Democracy Constitutional Republic of The United States of America its proper US Constitution Article IV Section 4 protection against invasion (and protection again resultant violence on domestic US ground when the illegals use force against US border security)?
You know why no one has built a wall previously? Why the GOP still isn't actually willing to give up meaningful concessions to the Democrats in exchange for wall funding?
Because a wall isn't actually an effective use of funds to keep out illegal immigrants and protect US security. It's a good campaign slogan since it's a simple concept, but reality gets more complicated.
Yes, for all the clammoring about "our Democracy", it's designed as REPRESENTATIVE and therefore a Republic.
What's your point?
Mexico isn't going to pay for the wall directly, but after it's built there is always Trump (and future presidents) MASSIVELY TARRIFING all items Product of Mexico or even Made in Mexico imported into the US.
Trade wars are more complicated than that. Trying to extort money from another nation does not end well, if for no other reason than other countries rightfully see your behaviour as a threat and find ways not to make it worth your while.
ICE and the US Border Patrol are insufficient in number and weaponry, the US military shouldn't need to have to defend the border as a backup against a mass threat of invasion (an approching caravan)
Wow, you almost made me split my tea over my keyboard.
We as a nation also, plain and simple, don't need Democrats fighting incrementally and aggressively for a PURE Democracy when even STATES operate as Republics (Assembly, Senate, Governor, note all state laws are by popular vote only),
Rant about one thing at a time.
Trump should ideally start jailing the resisting Democrats for US Constitutional violations...
Well this post sure started out batshit crazy and then went downhill.
But then, liberals would accuse Trump of fascism
Accuse him of fascism for jailing political opponents?!? How unfair!!!
Constitution of the United States of America (as required in Article II Section 1 Oath of Office) especially pertaining to Article IV Section 4.
Do you think if you cite things specifically enough that we'll believe you over all the real constitutional scholars?
often relying on their honor to comply with the laws.
Whatever the hell that means.
Yeah, right. It's long overdue to not allow DACA, DREAM, or even asylum to otherwise illegal aliens of any nation (not just Mexico) unless a proven life-threatening reason exists... and even then they shouldn't get EXPRESS priviliege toward citizenship.
Yeah, someone has to get rid of those kids who sometimes didn't even realize they weren't born in the US!
I stole this Sig
Zero evidence of Russian collusion, or any crimes related to that fabricated myth.
He'll win in 2020. Third Supreme Court Justice. Thousands of conservatives in positions of entrenched power.
America was saved.
Had Hillary been elected we'd be in two new wars, flooding our communities with uneducated violent religious fanatics, and a court system packed with amoral activists bent on destroying their own country.
"We"
Fuck yourself. You aren't one of us. You are the enemy, and should be killed.
I'm a liberal and I want the wall built.
Don't confuse leftists with liberals. They are evil, violent, brainwashed zombies who are actively seeking to destroy their own country.
You won't need to worry about it. You'd be one of the first to die.
They need us far more than we need them. They're a blood sucking leech.
Trump is a Saint. I'd have landmines and snipers instead of walls were it up to me.
You mean the super majority Democrat house and senate he had for 2 years?
What an effective leader!!
Remember how Fox News and conservative Slashdotters keep bringing up Obama "learning on the job", or being a mere "community organizer"? And now they unashamedly voted in someone with even worse qualifications? Those Slashdotters should own up and admit they're fucking idiots.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Then it's a Constitutional Crisis because if you read Constitution of the United States of America Article IV Section 4 IN FULL:
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."
By Executive Order alone, it should be done, no vote necessary, government shutdown means the Legislature cannot be convened. The wall protects against Invasion and the inevitable violence on domestic US land when illegal aliens invading use force against our Border Patrol and ICE.
By that alone, president Trump already gets his funding for the wall. Order it funded, someone starts paying up immediately and the wall actually gets built beyond proposal prototypes in South County San Diego, California. There must always be a political price: Who, as in more than one obstructionist Democrat, pays the judicial price for at least Obstruction of Justice and maybe even stretched all the way Article III Section 3 Treason? (Giving aid and comfort to the enemy, the enemy being illegal aliens, the United States need not be at war to have an enemy.) They can plead down Treason to Sedition... and still have ample time in prison as justice against obstructing the US from protecting the Constitution.
Umm...you do intend to retire some day, yes? Are you aware the U.S. is generating new people at below the replacement rate which means that when you retire, you can count on reduced benefits, including Medicare and SS?
Is there any information you leftist get right? We're generating new people below replacement, but we are importing 1,000,000 per year. As far as I know this is the largest amount of legal immigration on Earth.
But hey, good job cherry picking a detail and leaving out the associated details so it appears you are correct. Lying by omission is lying.
Most illegal immigration occurs via ports of call or other sources than the southern border.
Once again, you shortsighted asshole, just because a point of entry isn't the LARGEST entry point doesn't mean you don't benefit by securing it.
If 3 robbers will come in through the door and two will come in through the window, locking the window still reduces the number of robbers who will get in the house.. See how that works?
Even if Mexico *were* to pay for it, the Trump Administration would need authorization from Congress because that's how the Constitution works.
What the fuck are you blathering about? If Mexico pays for it, Trump does not need Congressional approval.. He's not spending US money. Do you need congressional approval to spend your paycheck? No? Yeah, I'm pretty sure Mexico doesn't need US Congressional approval to spend their own money.
Trump would need approval to spend taxpayer funds..Mexico could spend their money however the fuck they wanted to. If they said "this is for a wall" then Trump could spend it on a wall. It's not a gift to the general fund and it's not taxpayer funds..
.... government shutdown means the Legislature cannot be convened.
No it doesn't. The fact that the media calls this a government shutdown does not make it one. Only non essential services have been shutdown. The VAST bulk of the Federal Government is still in full operation. If you turn off 25% of the lights in a room, is it dark? No.. And neither has the government shutdown when 75% of it is still running.
LIKE freedom,
Good! So do I!
I want all government to shut down, stop stealing money from people, stop redistributing the stolen proceeds, stop controlling people.
Wait you just said you like freedom. Now you're effectively saying you want to live as a serf under the local warlord or crime boss.
Personally I prefer actual freedom. That requires a government to enforce it.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
That's not how it works. You don't get to criticize the other guy's corrupt president and then fellate your own. Obama could have solved gitmo with a fucking pen. Just write an executive order insisting that everyone in there either be charged and speedily tried, or released. Anything else is unconditional but let's face it, nobody who orders a drone strike on a wedding gives a shit about anything. Obama is simply the most charming war criminal in recent history, and should be regretted (I was trying to write regarded but got auto corrected, but I like this better) as such.
Obama didn't need to fund anything. All he had to do was insist that the Constitution be respected, but your favorite constitutional scholar couldn't even manage that. We'll never know if he could have closed gitmo because he literally did not even make a meaningful attempt to do so. He wrote enough executive orders to have used them for toilet paper, but that one somehow escaped him. And the somehow is that he didn't actually try.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Just write an executive order insisting that everyone in there either be charged and speedily tried, or released.
He was specifically barred from doing this by Congress: https://www.washingtontimes.co...
Yup, home of the brave, land of the free.
Eh that's just a stupid reply.
The comparison was sound. No one was actually either calling anyone Nazis or comparing them to Nazis. But the logistical operation of finding 10 million people scattered throuhout the general population is something that's happened before. The best way to figure out how long it would take now is to see how long it took before.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
"The popular vote" is a centuries old primarily Liberal Media way of trying to "invalidate" an election.
States do individual separate/isolated popular votes to determine the winner of a state's ELECTORAL VOTES. Now, NOT ALL STATES DO WINNER TAKES ALL, so in that case Proportional Distribution applies. For Winner takes all, a single candidate wins ALL that state's apportioned Electoral Votes.
State votes DO NOT SUM towards a "national popular vote". This is a media manufactured political device only.
Next time someone mentions "won the popular vote" or "lost the popular vote", feel sorry for them as ignorant or outright in denial about how The Electoral College actually determines the election.
Electoral College review: Constitution of the United States of America Article II Section 1, Amendment XII, Amendment XXIII.
He was specifically barred from doing this by Congress: https://www.washingtontimes.co...
Nope. Totally wrong. They blocked spending. They didn't block releasing them. The correct, humane, constitutional thing to do if they couldn't be transferred somewhere for trial was to release them. And if Obama wanted to release them, all he had to do was call congress' bluff. Just give notice to congress that he wanted to bring them to trial, issue an executive order stating that anyone not brought to trial would be released as per the constitution, then spend the next 45 days telling the american people that congress was keeping gitmo open. Then at least he's tried, and it's not his fault. But he did fuck-all, which is how we know it was a lie from the start. He pandered to idiots, and the idiots are still sucking his cock for it. You're so useful.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I would be willing to bet that if he closed off the Southern Border for an extended period of time, Mexico would be more than willing to negotiate payments for said wall.
Quite a bit of money flows back into Mexico's economy from legal / illegals working here in the US.
You cut that cash flow off and they'll change their tune in a hurry.
What does that have to do with the border or the wall?
If you want to stop cash flow you have to shut down the banks.
Trump can't shut down the banks, then his cash flows from Putin and the Saudis stops too.
We should just close the government. Not sure what the federal government taxes the citizen's of the states and ten gives the money back to the states with conditions. Can't the states just decide how to spend their own money, and leave the federal government to stick to the military and international treaties.
Once again you're confusing what people are supposed to do with what they actually do.
> > Only an immigration official or federal worker whom the Secretary of Homeland Security has authorized may determine the immigration status of a person in the country.
> And these authorized officers check all the federal welfare applications.
There is no "federal welfare application", for most of these programs. Most of the money is administered by the states, received from the federal taxpayers in annual chunks based on how many recipients the state reports. The state reports X milion recipients, and gets Y billion dollars from the feds. States are supposed to check eligibility, but in many states the clerks are barred by state law from actually checking immigration status. In other states, they just don't bother. Government bureaucrats aren't known for excellent work.
>> It's unlawful for them to release people who are fugitives from the feds, but they do it.
> No they don't. Illegal border crossing is a civil infraction in the US, not a felony.
Robbery is a crime. Domestic abuse is a crime. Yet cities release illegal aliens who have already been convicted of these crimes, in violation of ICE detainees. According to acting ICE director Thomas Homan, "among âoe*criminal* aliens that have been released, rather than turned over to ICE, nearly 10,000 have recommitted *another* crimeâ between January 2014 and August 2017".
> So states are not obliged to notify the federal police about it.
Wrong again. 1907. TITLE 8, U.S.C. 1324(A) provides prison sentences of up to 10 years for knowlingly transporting illegal aliens (cities do this by policy), concealing, aiding and abetting, conspiracy to do these things, etc.
Again, we're not talking about what the law says people are *supposed to* do. They aren't *supposed to* BE in the US. By definition we're talking about people who don't follow the law like you do.
The article defines "poor" as basically "entitled to benefits", then looks at only those people. So we learn that a lot of people who are entitled to benefits get benefits. That's amazing! Maybe their next study will find that a lot of people who have a bus pass ride the bus.
What they didn't mention while talking about "poor people" is that people who enter the country illegally are exceedingly likely to be either "poor people" or criminals.
It's my understanding that immigrating legally takes a very, very long time. One reason the wait is so long is because it's based on how many *additional* immigrants the country accepts after the million who enter illegally each year. You would have gotten through much quicker if a million people didn't "cut in front of you in line" by entering illegally. You waited your turn, while watching all those other people skip the line in front of you. I find it interesting that you went through the long and arduous process, yet are so anxious to make stuff up to defend the people who skipped in front of you. If I were you, I'd might pissed at those people, thinking "I've been waiting, get in the back of the line like I did and wait your turn".
His promise to close Guantanamo.
And he tried to do that. The craven Congress denied him funds for that.
Agreed, and despite that he managed to reduce the number of inmates there quite a bit. Laying that at Obama's feet is dishonest. Similar for that heathcare promise.
Fuck off with your 'both sides' bullshit. The only ones using the government shutdown as a weapon have been the Republicans.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Mexico is also an important trading partner of the USA. This would really be an example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
From rich people...you wish!!
>"It's stupid that our system allows this so easily."
Agreed. And if something is shut down, then it should mean just that- nobody gets paid. Not now and not later. Closing services and then turning around and PAYING everyone for having done no work is crazy. And that includes Congress, President, etc. Being ACTUALLY unpaid after the new year would surely motivate them to pass a budget.
>"It should have a cruise control mode that funds at existing levels until budget agreements are made."
Better yet, it should also be coupled with a balanced budget amendment so that it is impossible to spend more than is taken in. Period. Budget exceeds revenue? Flat percent spending cut across the board automatically. Either spend less, tax more, or some combination of both.
>"Illegal aliens don't get foodstamps or housing assistance."
Until we turn around and do yet another "amnesty" and make them all citizens. Because, this is the last time, and we will prevent the situation from happening again by tightening the border and enforcement... yeah right. Rinse and repeat.
>"That's up to states, they can't dole out federal money to illegals."
But they CAN dole out state money, and some states do. And in theory, illegal immigrants are not supposed to be able to work- we have laws to prevent it. Yet the laws are ignored or skirted, and so there is no local, state, or federal income tax on any of those earnings, and no SSI collected, and no worker's comp.
Simple math. If we weren't providing any untaxed employment, and weren't providing any "free" services and benefits, then there wouldn't be much illegal immigration because they could not survive (or it would be only crime and illegal activity that supports them such as theft, drugs, smuggling, human trafficking, etc; because you can be assured that charity won't cover it).
How would we know the FCC was suspending most ops???
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
You dont think that has something to do with the shitty progressives trying to get people fired and physically harmed for disagreeing with them? I mean... Seems pretty clear to me.
yea because you would rather have our land invaded. Fuck you, and Fuck them.
'Just fund the wall that Americans want and need.'
The wall is stupid. People just take a bus or a plane to the US and don't go back.
Those going over or under the wall are just poor.
You think that money is only the printed stuff, or what is going on here?
Everything's a gotcha to someone who just wings it all the time.
You realize that the majority of illegal inmigrents are overstaying a valid visa, yeah? That your wall wonâ(TM)t do fuck all to deal with that? And that theyâ(TM)ve already dug one tunnel under a border to smuggle drugs I.
To be you!
And you can fuck off with your partisan bullshit. A shutdown occurs when an agreement over spending can't be made. It takes both Republicans and Democrats to make that happen. You only blame Republicans because you agree with Democrats spending habits.
No. Most Americans think that something needs to be done about border security, but that this specific plan is an idiotic waste of our money. Less money could be spent on a better plan and have a bigger impact.
It's the small-minded idiots who think it's wall-or-anarchy.
I would be willing to bet that if he closed off the Southern Border...
If he could close off the border he wouldn't need the wall.
No, I blame Republicans because they are to blame.
Is a lobotomy required these days to be a Republican?
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
The irony ! It stings!
If the FCC shuts down, maybe the TV networks will clean up their act. I'm tired of seeing all that wrinkly ol' cleavage on TV (grossly unprofessional), not to mention the local news anchors & reporters with the over-inflated Inflate-A-Bras (more gross unprofessionalism). TV has become a total whorish shitshow.
You're right, but only because he isn't creative enough to get it done.
If Mexico was willing to pay for the work, they'd also probably be willing to get paid to do the work which means that he could have Mexico hire Mexicans, and use his executive powers and responsibilities over matters of National Security to allow them to cross the border by a few feet and do the construction.
It is true though that if you want to do the graft in dollars, then you need Congress to pork-barrel it for you.
[...] Illegal aliens don't get foodstamps or housing assistance. The only medical care they can get is Medicaid for pregnant women giving birth in the US.[...]
In Yakima, WA, illegal aliens get everything handed to them on a silver platter, due to usurpation of the local city government by civil rights extremists. Read: https://www.aclu-wa.org/cases/montes-v-city-yakima-0
LOL. Another scared repubtard child. Has all the guns, but scared of a thousand refugees. What a fucking pussy.
Why are you scared of people not of your color? Why do Mexicans scare you so much?
Also, where do you get this million number from?
You're fighting on a hill that doesn't even exist.
He was blocked from spending money on releasing them.
You can't release people that are in US custody into Cuba without permission from Cuba. I mean, what are you thinking when you say "release?" You mean open the door to the cage, and let them walk out onto the military base? Now what? You're going to starve them to death by detaining them in the parking lot? You can't leave them on the military base and have "released" them, and Cuba wouldn't take them.
So you do have to spend money to release them at all; and if you're not allowed to release them in the US, you have to get permission from some country to release them there. People who were actually released, it was because they convinced a country to take them.
Without the ban on spending money, they'd do the normal thing in that situation; pay some other country to let them settle there. Easy solution, works out best for everybody. But that was not allowed by Congress.
You sound like a scared child. You are comparing immigrants to robbers. That shows right there you are SCARED of brown people.
Repubtards own all the guns, but scared of small brown people. Typical repubtard shit.
The funniest part IMO was last week when the Republican leadership in the Senate proposed a "compromise" where the Democrats in the House would agree to spending on the wall. The very spending that same person was currently the one stopping!
Republicans love voting to spend money on the wall; as long as their sure there is somebody else in the process who has the "no" votes to stop them. ;)
they're
This isn't tit for tat. Jesus Christ. Also citation needed.
We don't fucking need border security. For Christ sakes.
And it would probably kill half of them.
Mexican here.
Really, the wall is not going to stop anything.
Smugglers will keep using drones, catapults, tunnels, mules.
That wall is only useful to fill the pockets of constructing companies, and Trump has a lot of connections there. That's the whole point of building that useless wall, to make his friends richer. That's it.
You mean like you'll look for backing the right's Jimmy Carter?
You cockroaches all scurried under the "I'm not with GW" table once his term was over, and he had 2 terms. I can only imagine what it will look like in 2020.
"OH! BUT HES GOING TO HAVE 2 TERMS!"
No he isn't. You need backing from the business community to win an election, and he's currently doing everything in his power to destroy American businesses.
"BUT TARIFFS!"
Yeah, great idea, Chairman Mao, let's all smelt steel in our back yards. We didn't need advanced manufacturing anyway. Also, businesses like predictability, and our current climate isn't at all predictable. All it takes is one tweet from grandpa for your business to thrive or fail.
I suspect that if the Dems can put someone basically uncontroversial who suggests even basic competence into their seat, then the big money will be pushing for a democratic president and a republican house and Senate.
Guess we'll see.
Ahhhh the repubtard adhomien. Knows the OP is currect so he just insults him. Classic.
If only you repubtard had critical thinking skills. If only.
LOLOLOL how quaint.
When he was campaigning your arguments were the opposite. "We aren't paying for the wall, get it built"
Repubtard fantasies.
I bet you were mad a black man was President. Poor baby.
No it was due to the fact they knew they were voting in a shitty racist, sexist asshole and were ashamed of themselves.
You aren't paying for his healthcare tho....
No, we blame republicans for the stupid fucking wall idea. And then saying Mexico will pay for it. And then saying shit we gotta pay for it.
Wealth prevents murdere LOL.
Tell that to OJ Simpson. Tell that to that Debian guy. Tell that to all the rich people who either committed murder or who have been murdered.
2 big problems.
1. The word "invasion" in this context implies a nation state taking control of an area and overruling government control. You are redefining the word to mean "people who come over to live under the US federal, state, and municipal governments". This is only invasion in rhetoric, not in fact.
2. "Treason" is levying war against the states,or in adhering to their enemies giving comfort and aid to them. This is enumerated in 18USC2381. It does not define "Enemy", but the alien enemy act of 1798 is specific, talking about natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of a country against which the US has declared war. United States v. McWilliams in 1944 appears to support this reading, claiming that Germany was not a statutory enemy until December 1941. Since we are not at war with Mexico or indeed any of the relevant North or South American countries, these people who came to live under our governments are enemies in rhetoric only, not in fact.
You do have a reasonable rationale for being upset and wanting things to get better, but throwing words around recklessly only hurts your cause.
What a shithole the USA has become kn the last 30 years. SAD.
"Give us your tired and your poor"
FUCK YOU. You are a traitor to the freedom of your own country. Fuck you pussy fag!
I think you mean to claim the State of New York is lying when they say that they are sending out welfare checks to illegal aliens. And Politifact is lying when they confirmed it, in your imagination. And the State of California was lying in 2016 when they passed a bill allowing illegal aliens to receive state benefits. And the census bureau is lying in their Survey of Income and Program Participation, according to your wish. Again, from the State of New York web site nicely explains the situation in most states (California being the exception since they've passed laws actually allowing some and or preventing workers from checking immigration status in other cases):
----- ..
Whether illegal aliens can obtain state benefits is not clear-cut. The short answer appears to be that they are not legally entitled to most benefits, but do in fact receive them.
A fair interpretation of the federal statute and state regulation must result in the conclusion that illegal aliens should not receive any form of state public assistance. However, illegal aliens do, in fact, receive state public benefits. That's because the burden of determining lawful status in the U.S. is on the shoulders of county social services employees who have neither the legal jurisdiction nor the practical ability to determine one's immigration status. Only an immigration official or federal worker whom the Secretary of Homeland Security has authorized may determine the immigration status of a person in the country.
----
You can have a look at the Census Bureau study, the Survey of Income and Program Participation, for yourself if you'd like, rather than fervently arguing whatever some comedian told you on late night TV, without having idea clue whether what the comedian told you has any basis in reality.
Your other responses have some nice backtracking, but this is outright wrong still:
Got it, you don't think they should shut down the parks. I mean, they will, because they do every shutdown
If you were paying attention you'd know they haven't shut down most outdoor parks.
So not EVERY shutdown.
But this is just a "why". It's not happening yet cause there's still a little cash left in those accounts.
Wrong, if they still had money they'd be providing services but they are not. They just aren't manning the parks right now.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Mexico could spend their money however the fuck they wanted to. If they said "this is for a wall" then Trump could spend it on a wall. It's not a gift to the general fund and it's not taxpayer funds..
Though the very idea of Mexico sending money to the US specifically to build a wall to keep people from entering the US is laughable - and fully counter to the claim that Trump has made many times about Mexico "sending bad hombres" to the US. If the illegal immigrants are so awful, then it would be in the best interests of Mexico to keep them moving, not to slow down their departure.
If Mexico pays for it, Trump does not need Congressional approval
Trump's latest scheme is that Mexico would somehow pay for the wall by way of tariffs and taxes through NAFTA 2.0. However the money that comes in to there goes into the general fund, so no Trump would not be able to tap into it on his own initiative (sans congress) to spend it on his own pet projects. He would need congressional approval. Now if for some reason Mexico sent a check specifically to build the wall, it might be possible to use that as such - though there is a big problem with that one too, namely that financial gifts to the federal government are required to be unconditional unless congress specifically passes a law allowing them to be used for a specific project.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Just like Medicare For All, right dipshit?
Please provide me with the name of a Presidential Candidate with the Republican or Democratic Nomination who ran on a platform of "Medicare for all."
Thanks.
(Dipshit.)
Wealth prevents murdere LOL.
Well he's not wrong, but not in the way he thinks. Wealth does prevent murder... when he hands some of his wealth to the local mafia for protection (they probably call themselves security services or some other euphemism). Instead of elected officials, it's your local warlord or mafia boss.
Isn't that just like government and taxation? Well yes.
Reality is you can't really shut government down. Ever. Because wherever society crops up, a government of some kind will also pop up.
At least the people of my neighborhood will have great commercial free music and drunken ramblings to listen to!
its easy just build a wall!
Polls are BS. We had an election. America voted for a wall.
Wrong, The MAGAs voted for Mexico to pay for a wall. But I guess you're just fuck'n stupid.
And the bad news is, you don't judge Trump for being a retard.
Happy people make bad consumers.
Kinda like when the office votes on what to eat for lunch, and 15% of them vote for dog shit, so the entire office is forced to eat dog shit.
his name is Martin ESPINOZA. His name might as well be Spicky McSpicksalot. He's a mexican hating mexican.
Last time I checked, it was always the republicunts blathering on about "mandates from the masses" yet since it's not working out for you this time, it's suddenly a meaningless metric. Fuck off.
What if I do? Does freedom only apply to your side? If you can say all the stupid shit that you often do, then I sure as fuck can too.
here let me hit you with a liberal favorite "It doesn't mean the same thing anymore"
Pretty sure I've heard that from you constitution haters. Eat a fat bowl of dicks and see me in the streets. 7230 S Las Vegas BLVD
I withdraw the part my other response to this post that agrees the parks are staying open. You are just 100% wrong. The link I used in that post referenced Joshua Tree. It just shut down. Looks like even Trump's express change to policy couldn't survive contact with reality. Shocking.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
I state the fact that we have immigration to make up for our birth deficiency and you take that as me having a problem with people of color? What the fuck is wrong with you? I said we're importing 1M people/year.. That's a fact. If you can point to the sentence where I said something negative about that, I'd love to see it.
As for where, the State Department, mouth breather.
Please? someone listen to us?
This country is too great to have treasonous frauds shutting it down on a bullshit-supported whim. It's time to deal with the coward-in-chief, once and for all. Make America GREAT Again, GET RID OF THE TRAITOR.