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Nest Secure Has an Unlisted, Disabled Microphone (androidauthority.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Android Authority: Owners of the Nest Secure alarm system have been able to use voice commands to control their home security through Google Assistant for a while now. However, to issue those commands, they needed a separate Google Assistant-powered device, like a smartphone or a Google Home smart speaker. The reason for this limitation has always seemed straightforward: according to the official tech specs, there's no onboard microphone in the Nest Secure system. However, Google just informed us that it is right now rolling out Assistant functionality to all Nest Secure devices via a software update. That's right: if you currently own a Nest Secure, you will be able to use it as a Google Home very soon. That means somewhere in the Nest Guard -- the keypad base station of the Nest Secure -- there might be a microphone we didn't know existed. Either that or your voice commands are going to be heard by another product (like your phone, maybe) but Assistant's output will now come from the Nest Guard, if you happen to be in the range of that device. UPDATE: Google has issued a statement to Android Authority confirming the built-in microphone in the Nest Guard base system that's not listed on the official spec sheet at Nest's site. The microphone has been in an inactive state since the release of the Nest Secure, Google says. This unlisted mic is how the Nest Guard will be able to operate as a pseudo-Google Home with just a software update.
look, i just want a warm living room when i come home from work
can we fuck off with this creeping and creepy featuritis?
id hate to think some company would install a secret microphone in peoples home and then also secretly work with the chinese government or something like that
Permit me to say: LOL
I am shocked, shocked I say. ;)
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
“It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.”
I will not buy a TV with a video camera.
I'd be furious if I found out my TV had one, that only needed a software update to activate.
I'm putting my old mercury bulb thermostat back in.
Have gnu, will travel.
Is how many other devices have clandestine microphones unbeknownst to the owners?
How can you trust anything from any of these tech companies. They all spy on you.
Why does it matter? Nearly everyone carries around a pocket-sized spy computer everywhere they go all day long and then leave them on the nightstand next to their bed at night.
Of smart devices?
" will be able to operate as a pseudo-Google Home with just a software update."
The same can be said of any computer with a microphone. So why not just use an actual computer that you control?
Just imagine if your girlfriend one day revealed she had a teddy bear with a camera she never told you about until you both decided to make a sex tape....
Disabled or "disabled"?
so I wonder how many other google products have hidden microphones??? what about their mesh router?
not listed in spec! Lawsuit?
But I would buy one. And there are more people like me than you, so we win.
has 5 or so presets, cost nothing (thanks natural gas company) and doesn't have any microphones, or wifi.
If I had a Nest, I'd probably break out the dyke cutter and remove the microphone.
"according to the official tech specs, there's no onboard microphone"
The tech specs not listing a microphone is very different than the tech specs saying "there is no onboard microphone," as claimed.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Google announced that, going forward, the thermostat will be called the:
Nest “Secure” ;-)
#DeleteChrome
At least it's easy enough to cover a camera. If it's not in plain sight, it won't have a view at all.
A microphone however could be internal and practically impossible to get to without opening up the device.
The microphone has been in an inactive state since the release of the Nest Secure, Google says.
Prove it.
They should be sued for such unethical behavior. What prevents them from adding
a camera for select customers? I will not trust them anymore.
Quantity over quality: not a winner; not now; not ever.
that's how they got nixon!
At least unless there is a physical switch. No? Then this counts as deceptive and malicious. These evil f****** are getting more bold.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Slashdotters need to learn and realize that the average consumer - read the vast vast majority of people - don't give a flying-rat-fuck about security or privacy. They care about shiny new toys and personal convenience and they do not care what the price.
These major services/vendors have figured it out. They understand that they can do whatever the fuck they want, so long as it's convenient or shiny new for the end user. The end user/consumers gleefully hand over their money, their security, and their privacy to any and all of these companies for shiny new or convenient.
You people worrying about microphones listening in, cameras recording activities, big data tracking your every fucking activity on a global scale, you're very much in the minority. The MASSIVE majority don't just fail to understand your odd and suspicious concerns, they are angered by your belligerent resistance to devices and services such as completely unnecessary $200 thermostats that track the consumer's habits, or Smart TVs that track viewership, feed targeted ads, and listen in on household conversations.
To the rest of the world, you're a nutter deserving of scorn, ridicule, and ostracization.
What, exactly, do you think you're "winning"?
No, you don't win. Everybody loses, that's a more fitting description.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/...
Just expect that camera to be cleverly hidden in the future.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Yes, stupid wins by the numbers. In all other regards, people like you lose.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The mob may be distracted by shiny toys today but at some point when the snooping gets too much the mob will get ugly and when they start the pogrom they will go after all techies not just the ones at NEST. Hence we crib about privacy and try to prevent overreach.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Wow, so, Google has shipped devices with hidden microphones which are left off the spec sheet ... but they've all been disabled ... we promise, we'd never do anything like hide a microphone in a device.
I'm sorry, but there is so little goodwill to Google these days from me, that I'm not willing to take that at face value.
Why would I believe Google when they tell us these days that they're totally not evil? Increasingly, it's hard to see them as anything but evil.
I'm afraid I'm not believing them. Why would I when every time I turn around I see more stories about them tracking you no matter if you opt out or not?
dubious use of "win" here.
But not that they have obtained the confidential information they were looking for, they are making the mics public. In other news, Google appears to be getting some surprise positive rulings from certain judges who own Nest kit.
If you buy a TV that has WiFi, block the MAC; if it has wired, just don't connect it.
I have an old WD box for Netflix, which has neither camera nor microphone.
That's like saying "it was released always disabled"
It never mentioned it wasnt ever activated.
Future? What makes you think they're not there now?
but creimer came over to borrow a bucket of butter and farted and blew out the microphone
Or thought it was a good idea to have a telescreen put in their home, and actually pay for it. I never realized people were this gullible.
No one did a tear down? You would think of someone found that they would be posting about it everywhere. It so people just expect that now?
For people who don't read the summary, this is about the security system, not the thermostat.
Enough with the comments about the thermostats as if this is what the story is about.
This unlisted mic is how the Nest Guard will be able to operate as a pseudo-Google Home with just a software update.
This is hilarious. A compromised thermostat can be made into a surveillance device with just a software update by hacker.
Where do I sign up for this Google gadget?
telescreens ftw!
Easy to hide, at sizes like 2.75 x 1.85 x 0.95mm, could be in just about anything, and would be hard to spot even if people would bother to look (and the device could be opened without damage). Example
You can't buy a good 4k display that does not have a microphone. I said I wouldn't buy a display with a mic or camera, but I did. I just never plug an ethernet cable into it, and my wifi is white-listed to omit the display.
There seems to be a lot of confusion by folks commenting.
Nest Secure is a home security hub.
Nest Thermostat is a thermostat.
The Nest Secure "base station" is a keypad device with various sensors that acts as both a security component as well as a security "base station". Features of the Nest Secure include the ability to listen for "breaking glass", which can be an indicator of a break-in when the alarm is set. Other Nest security components (such as door/window & motion detectors) communicate back to the Nest Secure "base station".
So anyone buying a Nest Secure already knows it listens, as well as tracking their motion, opening/closing of doors, along with whenever they leave or come home... That is the PURPOSE of the damn thing.
As far as inactivate hardware features go - this is not uncommon. The Google Hub shipped as a wifi router, but included additional hardware that could be "software activated" later allowing the Hub to communicate with other protocols such as zigbee & bluetooth (never was). My Tesla model S shipped in 2013 with "inactivate" hardware, such as an onboard wifi AP & 4G LTE that would be enabled at "some future time" (never was).
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I was under the impression that these far-field voice assistants required an array of microphones to do things like beam forming, noise reduction, acoustic echo cancellation, etc. The Amazon Echo has 7 microphones in a ring.
So there's either more than one hidden microphone or Google is rolling out a feature that's not really going to work well for voice assistance. I have to wonder what the real purpose of this update is.
Breeding rights with the plumpest hogs in the land. Netflix and chill bro!
just a reminder: ALL sound transducers, speakers and mics, do double duty. 50 years ago when sennheiser debuted their legendary 414s, they introduced headphone drivers to the world that were essentially microphones repurposed as tiny on-the-ear lightweight speakers and personal sound reproduction would never be the same. before long there wasn't a radio station or recording studio without the lightweight little hi fidelity wonders. and the reverse is also true. the "regular" consumer speaker products installed in your laptops, tablets, internet radios and smart tvs make dandy microphones and are often used as such by hobbyists and modifiers. if somebody is clever enough and is motivated enough, they can listen in on you through your supposedly micless gear via your speakers, with transmissibility approaching microphones, because that's what they essentially are.
- js.
This is just another instance of a situation that can be answered by an organization that puts up a website called 'drillhere.org'. This site contains detailed information about how and where to drill into your gadget to disable functionality you don't want.
It would have things like:
"To disable the microphone in a Nest Secure thermostat, drill a hole xxx deep using a #56 drill bit and angle X.X."
Usually there's a precise way to take care of 'problems' like this hidden microphone, and people have a right to know how to fix said problems.
And I would buy one and cover the camera with black tape.
Your phone has a mic in it. Your GM car has a mic intended for you to call for help. Any car with BT has a mic in it.
What makes you think those can't be remotely activated?
In fact, all US cell phones have an FM radio built in! But the phone companies won't let us use them. They easily could, with a quick software update.
Lots hidden features, all around
Looking over the specs of a Samsung 4K TV shows it has a microphone in the remote but not in the TV. Assuming that is true, a universal remote and removing the batteries in the Samsung remote should take care of that.
---
In many cases the mic is in the "smart" remote. Ditch that remote and use the superior "dumb" one, job done.
In the older time to place a microphone somewhere hou have had to be really clever, like one that invents elecronic musical instruments: Theremin's bug now ir way way easier to russians to spy, because we have tons of micophones in appliance connected to a communication network...
Seriously, what a misleading title. How does anyone know the microphone was really disabled?
Same here: when I needed to buy a new TV one of my few criteria was "NOT a smart TV".
And I predict this rule will stand when I need to buy another one.
My choices were constrained, but so be it.
>> Looking over the specs
Re-read the summary !
If you place any shred of trust in any Google device, heck, any smart cloud-connected device, you should check with a mental health specialist.
Every single device you own is now a cleverly disguised piece of espionage gear, actively and uncontrollably ratting you out to the company and by subpoena or by wiretap also to authorities, 24/7, 365 days. That is no hyperbole. It is that. And companies are intentionally designing their products to do as much surveillance as possible, opt-outs be as little as possible, data collection agreements to be mandatory and pervasive.
If you think that's hyperbole, buy a new TV and count the number and amount of "agreements to data collection". Disagree with any data collection and you will notice that your new TV will not display the most basic TV signal. Horrible.
Someone grab a screwdriver and look inside the thing. This isnt rocket science. A microphone shold be rather obvious.
Microphones and the respective chips are so inexpensive, small, and low power now: that there's no reason not to include them
on every device for possible future capability (or covert data gathering capability).
If unused by the product... it will just be unlisted on the spec sheet, and not software enabled.
Expect pretty soon: even simple appliances like the Smoke Detectors in every room, Electric Blankets, Vibrators, Light Switches, Wall Outlets, Toilets, Showers, Bathtubs, Faucets, Refrigerators, Microwaves, Coffee Pots, Dishwashers, Washing machines, Ovens, Stoves, etc... to all include a tiny logic board, wireless internet capability, and a little microphone and speaker: maybe eventually a tiny little camera to go with the microphone.
Assume that someone deceives you and convinces you to unwittingly install a microphone in your home that they can turn on at any time. They haven't actually turned it on, no conversation was heard/recorded. Is it still officially bugging/eavesdropping?
Who's doing the legal deep dive on this?
Now I'm curious if they'll do the same with their line of smoke/CO detectors. It's already known that they contain microphones to allow them to "test" the alarms once a month.
The unlisted video camera is enabled.
Unfortunately, some of the cameras recently reported for "smart phones" are reported to work through the screen. (I'm not sure this is the "notch", though I suppose it could be marketing speech for that.)
If this is doing what the article said, then it might be a bit difficult to cover the camera.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Nest sold a product....
to be placed in private homes....
that had a microphone...
and they purposefully hid this fact...
I don't even....anymore...I....ugh.
Pretty much nobody is going to do anything about this. There is no will among regulators to do anything about this. Don't blame the Republicans. If the Democrats were in control it would be no different. Or perhaps blame them both. It won't get you anything, but you can feel justified they're all slimeballs.
If a lawyer can make a class action lawsuit out of this, perhaps something will happen. This system came out about a year and a half ago. I didn't really see it in stores until last year. How many units have they sold? I've read that you can do a class action with as little as 40 people. Nest claims to have sold 11 million items, but I would be surprised if more than tens of thousands Nest Secures have been sold. It runs about $300. So that's like what $3 million buck ber 10,000 consumers in play? Not counting penalties. Is that enough for a set of high priced lawyers to take them to court for a protracted legal battle? I don't think so, but what do i know?
Yet another example of how foolish it is to trust ANYTHING from Google.
Apple patented a camera that was embedded in the screen. I never heard anything about it since. I wonder if they started using them but never told anyone.
Star Trek, there maybe hope.