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US Tells Germany To Stop Using Huawei Equipment Or Lose Some Intelligence Access (theverge.com)
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the United States has told Germany to drop Huawei from its future plans or risk losing access to some U.S. intelligence. The U.S. says the Chinese company's equipment could be used for espionage -- a concern that Huawei says is unfounded. "The Trump administration has been pressing allies to end their relationships with Huawei, but Germany, moving ahead with its plans, has not moved to ban the company from its networks," reports The Verge. From the report: According to the Journal, a letter sent from the U.S. Ambassador to Germany warns the country that the U.S. will stop sharing some secrets if it allows Huawei to work on its next-generation 5G infrastructure. The letter, according to the Journal, argues that network security can't be effectively managed by audits of equipment or software. While the U.S. plans to continue sharing intelligence with Germany regardless, the Journal reports, officials plan to curtail the scope of that information if Huawei equipment is used in German infrastructure.
What's next - invade Germany?
That intelligence is nice but if it's not as nice as you think it is, well, you lose allies right quick that way.
And what's that one Chinese company to you anyway? There are so many more.
What else? Maybe Cisco? https://www.tomshardware.com/n...
So did the NSA use Huawei to spy on Merkel?
We Europeans are not stupid. We crystal clearly know that the US is doing this in an attempt to wage economic war with China.
However. Post the US empire, there will still be the European Union. And that European Union needs to do trade with China. No matter what you fucking asshole Americans think.
So bye bye intelligence access.
And Hi Huawei! Hi China. Let's do trade.
What did you American fuckwits think? Go kill some Venezuelans with your bombs. We all know you want to. Murderers.
I think we'll get by just fine without it ...
Don't buy huwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawei, it's my way or the huwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawei.
This is a joke, btw.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Why doesn't anyone talk about the NSA's known actions to install physical and software backdoors in American hardware, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., and that Huawei has never been shown to do that?
This looks like a Trump MAGA Tamtrum to protect Cisco, etc, and wage a useless trade ware.
Where exactly did Trunp say buy American 5g?
He did not. You dumb children have to make shit up to justify your TDS.
Go ahead, use the Chinese governments equipment in your national network. Same company already busted for spying, supporting a nuclear terrorist state, money laundering and who knows what else?
You hate Trump so much you would rather deal with your enemies. Well, go ahead. Do what you like. The price is intelligence info. Especially important considering your mass importation policy of terrorist rapists.
Anything that spies on you sends the results to the same database in the end, which certain alphabet agencies and Mossad have direct access to.
Use of Huawei by Germany should be discontinued because it would be a threat to US intelligence for sharing secret information with Germany.
And since they spied on Merkel already, what the fuck do they think Germany feels about being told what they have to do to share with the USA? This is fucking Trump, misogynist, making this move.
You are either working for the Chinese government or are one of their useful sheep. Your blind irrational hatred is amusing. You sound like a petulant child ignoring safety instructions from mommy because you know better. Dont touch that! Its hot!.... just before you get a third degree burn.
If not for the American empire, and I will not dispute we are in fact an empire, you would be under Nazi control, and if not them then Russian. Putin truly would own you. Oh wait, you dumb asses run a natural gas pipeline straight from Putins cock to your Euroweenie mouth to suck on.
And who is going to save you (again) when your mass imported Merkel terrorist rapist population grows beyond your control?
The Chinese? Lmao, yes, it will again be those evil Americans who fund your pharmaceutical research, prot4ct your borders, provide you with global intelligence about your home grown and imported terrorists and generally prot4ct your childish petulant asses.
Good luck with your Chinese overlords. After the EU finishes collapsing and the Chinese economy under their new full on control economy dictator goes into the shitter who will be there for you? Yup, us eeeeeeeevvvvuullll Americans will save you again. That means me, the American tax payer, again, bailing you out of your latest stupidity.
Because none of their kit was ever backdoored (see iraq war where US very proudly admitted they disabled remotely the iraqui telecoms kit (which was US kit).
So, basically, in short with this veiled threat to Germany, the US is trying to get the german intelligence services to be better buddies with the chinese.
Greed and politics for the win!
Since everybody is forced to use VPN to access Google and such.
But we'll go with the batshit crazy stupid version you prefer, then: USA tells germany that if they move to 5G that the USA will stop sharing anything with them from their intel (though they will still demand that Germany hand over stuff to them, even if it is via a proxy state like the UK).
Please don't save us and stay home. Spend your American tax dollars on bridges and education.
Like we do.
You need it.
Better use US made stuff so US intelligence can have a backdoor.
Damn Chines won't allow us in.
WW2 has fuck all to do with the USA's better skills, except in so far as Europe being fucked up by the war while the USA was untouched entirely let to the economic boom the USA foind after it.
The fuck does nazi germany (who would not have won WW2 anyway, once he started invading Russia) have to do with democratic germany using chinese kit?
FFS you retarded moron.
I don't get your joke. Please explain.
How the claim from merkins demanding that their mercenary work, MASSIVLEY paid for over generations from the UK, is normally "you'd be speaking german if it weren't for us", because as we all know, even merkins, the USA only has rose tints to claim they're the best in the world, so they have to trade on long-past assistance (paid or gifted, they will presume it was gifted). Yet they aren't doing it here. It's now the Russians who would have won the war if the USA hadn't leapt in after joining 3 years too late (though be fair, the UK and most of Europe were 2 years late before that, sorry Poland and central europe), but it was never counted that way until Germany are the ones being screamed at for not being sufficiently cowed by USA's mercenary actions 70 years ago.
Because the reason why the USA joined in was twofold:
Primarily, because Germany declared war on them The USA would not have gone in otherwise, they were making big bank off Germany investments.
Secondarily to stop Russia gaining most of Europe because even then the red scare was looming for "god's own chosen country". After all if godless commies were to do better, it would mean god preferred the GODLESS to the holy peoples of merkinania.
Of course we should consider that Huawai may be forced to include backdoors.
On the other hand, with Cisco, we know it.
And if the US wants to start the blackmailing game, I'm sure they can call Cisco and make sure that their prices are.... compareable. Or if you have anything that may hint that Huawai indeed build in backdoors: Come up with some proof. Or at least an effing hint. Or clue. Or inkling... anything that is better than mere claim.
I'd even go as far and say that we'd be willing to believe any actual evidence (better to be spied on by the US than China) but as long there isn't anything like that the only sensible way to go is to put any possible vendor through a strict security check.
bickerdyke
Germany doesn't want Russia to get a hold of their intel.
That means that it is better to let China snoop in than to let the US snoop in.
America never spied on allies under Obama. Real TV "news" says so. Snowden is Trump's fault too. And lets blame him for Ferguson while we're at it.
Ok so the US is concerned that Huawei gear could be used to spy.
The question I have is, why the hell is data (government or otherwise) being sent over cellular networks in a way that compromised gear (regardless of manufacturer) could steal it?
What data (intelligence or otherwise) are the US scared the Chinese might steal and why would it be sent over any networks without encryption?
Ever asked why there are so many refugees and who is often responsible for them?
Ever asked what drives Islamic terrorists (tip: US drone war, etc.)?
The European countries already have militaries. Two of the best in the world are in Europe: UK and France. You just hear trump complain about the USA military being used by europe and believe, because (a) you're an idiot) (b) you listen to bigger idiots.
I you had listened French and German intelligence agencies, 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened.
But you didn't.
Instead of LISTENING you [try to] SPY on us.
From european POV, US intelligence seems to be more and more about hurting our economy and nothing else.
So I wouldn't be too confident on this kind of threat to make Germany drop Huawei.
We don't trust american hardware more than others.
If you stop sharing secrets with us then be it, I guess you wouldn't be bothered if EU don't share anything at all with US too.
So they won't be able to sell the information back they would get from the bugs in the US made 5G network equipment? ;)
The only pblic record is people in the USA claiming this shit is happening.
You know who is spying on the German government ? US spy agencies, that's right. So much for being "partners".
All that Huawei fud is being spread without any technical evidence, it is clearly made up to block 5G competition, nicely disguised as "security concerns".
The comments are always full of whattaboutism with Cisco. That's a red herring to the discussion. And to the arrogant Europeans who think they can live without US intelligence because Orange Man Bad. Enjoy losing access to all of those satellites, drones, ELINT platforms and more. Its a hard pill to swallow but Europe's military is tiny and you simply haven't invested in those platforms. Without access to US assets you have little to no intelligence gathering capability on your own. I also don't think there is anything unreasonable about the requirements. Would you have said the same thing in the 60's if the US refused to share intel over Russian built radios? Why do you think Chinese built hardware is acceptable for official purposes. You have your own tech companies, buy their hardware.
We can assume that the US intelligence on the issues pertaining German security (say terrorist network cells in Germany, or German infrastructure being infiltrated by foreign actors) is the one that interests Germans the most, and it's inconceivable that US won't share it because of Huawei. Imagine that after a major terrorist attack in Germany someone in the WH announced, "see, we could have warned you, but you! bought Huawei equipment! never!"
Nope, Hitler always intended to invade Russia for the natural resoures of the Baltic area and the food production of the central plains, see lebensraum. The pact with Russia was to allow Germany to neuter Europe, the country he was afraid of. He was absolutely unafraid of Russia because
1) no aryan stock
2) godless now under stalin
3) they're soviets
4) they look different to WASPs.
5) god was on hitlers' side. god told him so.
Huawei are probably providing back doors to the Chinese government, but American companies have been doing the same thing for a long time on national security grounds. Microsoft were caught out providing a backdoor in Window NT to the NSA.
American wants to retain its capability, which never included Germany.
You know only one of the '5 eyes' is American, right?
... has no idea what Five Eyes is; or that Microsoft & NSA got caught red handed with their backdoor into WindowsNT.
US was caught spying on germany's chancellor few years ago...
case closed
The U.S. has zero day attacks ready to go to knock out infrastructure (pipelines, electrical, telecommunication etc.) anywhere in the world. Using chinese equipment might stop the activation commands and scripts from reaching their targets. Can't have that, eh?
The US and Germany have decades of close cooperation against the greatest enemy both have face - Putin's Satanic Russia. Trump is an obvious traitor and agent for Putin who needs to be removed from all influence. When that is done, relations with China will correct because it will allow China to wage war against Putin and kill him. That will bring actual world peace.
Every kind. West Germany intelligence after WW2 was a creation of the NSA, GCHQ and CIA.
Trusted West German staff where more connected to their US and UK NSA/GCHQ colleagues than any elected West German government over the decades.
That total trust and extra support carried over to Germany.
Germany now wants to go Communist?
Why should the US and UK support that and give their secrets away in Germany?
That was support for German freedom and democracy.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The one from countries that we Germans and the US fucked up due to meddling imperialism and greed? Who are now sprinkled with mentally unstable/religious people as a result?
Or the ones who invaded Germany before that, who came from western Russia and were called ... "Prussians"?
Or do you mean those middle-eastern religious invaders called ... "Christians"?
Wait, maybe you mean way back, when we were invaded by those creepy slender degenerates from Africa called ... "homo sapiens"?
You're right. How dare a million of them come over, to destroy our weak culture of *only* 80 million. How dare those illiterate morons take our high-quality jobs? How dare those abusive ugly motherfuckers take our womem?
With our culture, looks, behavior, education and skills we *totally* have *no chance*.
</sarcasm level=over-9000>
Please Germany, show some spine and tell the US-ians to f off. We'll have a proper 5G implementation a lot faster and it might even be the beginning of the end for the 5 eyes agreement.
If not for the American empire, and I will not dispute we are in fact an empire, you would be under Nazi control, and if not them then Russian.
To be clear are you pointing out to Germans that they would be under control of the political party they elected and the side they fought for in a war?
Remember the big problem with the Nazis was their means, not their vision. So I guess "thank you" for coming in, defeating us in a war at a time where we were expanding and taking over europe. "Thank you" for kicking our democratically elected leaders. "Thank you" for liberating the country from jobs, and rising prosperity.
No secret information is transferred over any network without adding additional layers of encryption. NOBODY in their right mind trusts the encryption of the underlying network infrastructure, especially secret services.
So this is clearly an attempt to bully Germany into taking part in Trumps trade wars.
I don't get your joke. Please explain.
OK, let me call the Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance to race up the huwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawei.
This whole situation is fucking ridiculous and deserves parody in a lame joke because that's how lame it is. One because China is obviously lying and two because the US does it too and they are having a tantrum over who is going to control the biggest segment of the population so they both can fucking ass rape our freedom with a jackhammer.
A police state in everything but name.
Meanwhile people seeing this post on facebook have a mild moment of outrage and say "yeah" and slip back into their apathy as they keep scrolling.
Either way, we loose, get it?
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Democracies with freedoms such as press and individual rights should be careful about ceding to much power to a nation with differing values. Telecom infrastructure is becoming a vital tech component of our societies. Need to co-exist and trade generally helps keep us from killing each other. Not sure if a full ban warranted but limits on how much reliance seem sensible. Mobile devices should be less of a concern since many options and easy to replace.
The German people voted for Hitler to be democratically elected and democratically held accountable. He tricked their Reichstag and government in general to create a de facto dictatorship. Your selective facts show your ignorance on the matter.
Americans moaning about immigration like their country isn't based off the fucking concept.
The world moaning about ancient history as if it's fucking relevant anymore. Those that migrated to the US hundreds of years ago weren't.....
BZZT.
Immigration peak was actually in 1930. That's not 'hundreds of years ago'.
Since Trump and the red-hats are only shades different from Hitler and the brown shirts, I don't think America has lots of room to speak, here. Trump is just biding his time until his own Reichstag fire.
mod parent up
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Where exactly did Trunp say buy American 5g?
He did not. You dumb children have to make shit up to justify your TDS.
Go ahead, use the Chinese governments equipment in your national network. Same company already busted for spying, supporting a nuclear terrorist state, money laundering and who knows what else?
You hate Trump so much you would rather deal with your enemies. Well, go ahead. Do what you like. The price is intelligence info. Especially important considering your mass importation policy of terrorist rapists.
Why are you yelling at socialists who are doing socialist shit?
The TDS infected WANT the destruction of Western culture and success.
You know who is spying on the German government ? US spy agencies, that's right. So much for being "partners".
WHATABOUTISM
And the US knows damn well that Germany will spy on Trump any chance they get. We spy on the UK. The UK spies on US. Everybody is spying on everybody, and everybody knows it.
What was your case, again?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Consider the results if Huawei equipment were used to completely control telecommunications and the Chinese government asked the company to have the equipment "stop working" in all capitalist countries. They would let it be "turned back on" if the proper incentives were created......
I understand the thinking here that pretty much any Chinese company must bend to the will of the Chinese government which, in effect, means Huawei can become ( or, secretly, already is ) a government run company.
However, the same is true for any company in any country. Here in the US, companies have to play nice with the USG or risk losing those lucrative government contracts. Even if they don't play nice, the USG makes them unwitting participants anyway. ( See NSA Tailored Access Group ) Perhaps it is their extensive knowledge of just how EASY it is to penetrate a foreign network if you have access to the network hardware ( even briefly ) that is the source of the concern.
In the end, Germany will simply have to choose which is more important to them: Saving $$$ on network hardware or the Intelligence Data they receive.
It will be one or the other.
This is coming from the US Govt that has spied on the Germans in the past. What irony.. a nation with fingers in each and every conflict around the world. A shameless type of human with such audacity.. There are certainly unnatural things coming out of the US Govt no matter the party.
Chinese are not our enemies, since we ain't the one running empire (anymore). They might be your enemies, but they are our partner, just like you are. If you don't like it, you're free to fuck off.
And no, we don't need your help, you need help with history. Your mighty power couldn't do shit againt vietnam. Sure you bombed the shit out of them, similarly as nazis rampaged europe. But in long term, you had to fuck off, just as nazis would have to fuck off. It's too costly to govern hostile people. Unless you just exterminate them.
I'm reading this as, "Huawei was the only company that wouldn't put a back door into their firmware at your request, so we want you to stop using it."
US already stopped using Huawei and the president lost HIS intelligence, i guess they have proven correct ;)
Intelligence? Big Giant Orange Head was literally just quoted as saying, "aircraft are getting too complex to fly."
This is what passes for intelligence these days from America?
Nor is this the first time. BGOH has said so many head-slappingly stupid things, it has become a running joke. "Trade wars are good and easy to win", "Peace in the Middle East will be so simple", "Who knew healthcare was complicated?", "Amazon shouldn't be using the USPS", "I just grab them by the pussy", "He (Putin) told me he didn't do it", "I should have said he didn't not want to not do it, that ought to clear that up", the list is endless.
This isn't intelligence. This is Cletus in a fine suit, trying to look like he belongs there.
US tells Germany to stop using Huawei Equipment or US loses some intelligence access, to be more clear what is probably going to happen. After all who bugged Merkel's phone, and exactly how did they get access to her phone both wired and cell phone communications?
America is a bigger threat to some of ours security. For example, America is known for putting people on no-fly lists and enforcing it on their allies, which can be a direct threat to my freedom.
America would also rather put tariffs on my country with no exceptions then China, which gets lots of exceptions and shows America's true colours.
Electing Trump shows that America could actually elect someone truly evil instead of like Trump, just more crooked then usual. A good chunk of the American voters seem to ignore that Trump ignores the emoluments clause of the American Constitution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Yesterday I asked 10 people in the office a "Fun International Trivia" question.
The question: What country on Earth is four days into a countrywide electrical blackout?
2 people knew the answer.
That said, I didn't learn of the blackout until day 3, and then I figured it would be a minor event. Today is day 5...
You sir, are spot on.
BlameBillCosby.com
germany, tell murka to fuck off, and you won't send them data either.
Oh yeah, we Americans don't want those stinky intelligence on Iraq WMDs, we just demand more nude photos of Angela. If the Germans start using Huawei, how can we get those photos?!
After all they did appropriate plans for the F-35 by hacking a defense contractor. Chinese are generally a lot smarter that USAians, and they work harder too. It is about time the USA got in the game and started to accept China for the competitor they are. Do not allow your communications infrastructure be made by someone that is trying to do you harm.
Stop buying from China. Support the country you live in. Stop believing the Chinese owned news conglomerates that tell you to hate your neighbor because she or he is a conservative or a liberal
A conglomeration of Chinese, Mexican, and Russian stockholders control USAian media. The media cartel is playing the USA like a fiddle. Divide and conquer worked on the first inhabitants of North America. It is working on the second batch too.
Just means you cannot compete. If your best business strategy is lying about the products of the competition, then you do not have a future. Obviously that is one part of what is going on. The second one may be that US has trouble breaking into Huawei products to spy in its "allies". ("Vassals", really in their thinking.)
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
...if the hacked hardware intercepting the intelligence is replaced by Huawei equipment. So they're not really making a threat, they're just laying out the facts of the situation.
Now that would be news! :-D
Oh, that would be the USA.
I think the USA is shitting its pants, not because Huawei may have backdoors, but by using their gear it removes all the US backdoors.
They got involved ONLY because Germany declared war on them. THEN the USA joined the war.
Because I nominate this guy. He's been entertaining us all day!
Where exactly did Trunp say buy American 5g?
He did not. You dumb children have to make shit up to justify your TDS.
He didn't outright say it, but that's what he wants
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1098581869233344512
I want 5G, and even 6G, technology in the United States as soon as possible. It is far more powerful, faster, and smarter than the current standard. American companies must step up their efforts, or get left behind. There is no reason that we should be lagging behind on.........
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1098583029713420288
“Well, I think we have a lot of foes,” Trump told CBS News at his Turnberry golf resort in Scotland. “I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now you wouldn’t think of the European Union but they’re a foe.”
Tell me again how Germany has been a world leader over the last 100 years, and all the wars you guys won.
I'm waiting..
nothing has ever been found to show that they were. If they did Germany and the rest would drop them like a hot potato. This is just anti-China bashing because its a popular sport at the moment.
When are you moving in?
https://gearburn.com/2018/01/u...
Still didn't find anything...
No they want the best equipment at the best price. Seems pretty capitalist. Not the crony capitalist version you have fallen into in the US. Keep buying cisco because we still need access to our 'allies' data. Fuck you America.
The long game here is to ruin the FIVE EYES relationships between the USA and Britain, Germany, and to a lesser extent Australia and New Zealand, by creating a fait acompli scenario where cellular carriers in those countries, facing the fantastic capital expenses involved in 5G rollouts, have no choice but to buy Hauwei, and thus backdoor themselves to a level unacceptable for the USA. The 5G spec was effectively authored by Hauwei because most other participants failed to show up to the 3GPP meetings, let alone make meaningful contributions to the spec. If you want the highest compatibility, then by definition you should buy Hauwei gear. Thus, a wedge is driven into the relationship between the USA/NSA and other FIVE EYES participants, hobbling intel gathering. A nice example of Soft Power in geopolitics.
Why would non China demand go up if China stops buying them? Magic? Or just the wishful thinking of an Idiot?
Some demand is from China, obviously. If China stops then demand is less...are you retarded to not see this?
Less demand means the prices go down. Which in this case means the interest rate the US has to offer to sell them goes up.
Or you could just have less money to spend instead. It's almost as if China is loaning you the money to support your extravagant lifestyles. And you foolishly think things will get better if they decide to stop... Lunacy.
You must have gone to the WindBourne school of finance.
Intelligence info aka Secrets. What secrets does America have they they don't want China knowing? Maybe the ones that have seen other nations and people's terrorized the world over. At some point with a list as long as America has nations it has fucked with you have to ask who is the real problem globally.
the US would have more credibility on this subject if they hadn't already admitted to listening into the Germans phones. This sounds more like a commercial thing than a security issue otherwise the US would supply evidence of Huawei listening in.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
"...clearly Canada wasnt a 'US ally' in 1939."
Derp! Clearly you aren't the brightest bulb in the bin, are you? Canada has been a US ally since the War of 1812, an inconclusive and muddled affair that (territorially) achieved nothing.
Whaaaatttt?? Allies don't always do exactly the same thing at the same time? Say it isn't so!