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US Tells Germany To Stop Using Huawei Equipment Or Lose Some Intelligence Access (theverge.com)
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the United States has told Germany to drop Huawei from its future plans or risk losing access to some U.S. intelligence. The U.S. says the Chinese company's equipment could be used for espionage -- a concern that Huawei says is unfounded. "The Trump administration has been pressing allies to end their relationships with Huawei, but Germany, moving ahead with its plans, has not moved to ban the company from its networks," reports The Verge. From the report: According to the Journal, a letter sent from the U.S. Ambassador to Germany warns the country that the U.S. will stop sharing some secrets if it allows Huawei to work on its next-generation 5G infrastructure. The letter, according to the Journal, argues that network security can't be effectively managed by audits of equipment or software. While the U.S. plans to continue sharing intelligence with Germany regardless, the Journal reports, officials plan to curtail the scope of that information if Huawei equipment is used in German infrastructure.
Nice country you've got there, would be a shame if something were to happen to it...
That intelligence is nice but if it's not as nice as you think it is, well, you lose allies right quick that way.
And what's that one Chinese company to you anyway? There are so many more.
What else? Maybe Cisco? https://www.tomshardware.com/n...
So did the NSA use Huawei to spy on Merkel?
I think we'll get by just fine without it ...
Oh you Europeans are just jealous of how well people respond when the US commands.
Believe you me, the Swiss are getting as tired of the EU as you are of the US.
We couldn't even buy american even if we wanted to, as there is no US equipment vendor that offers 5G equipment. The choice is either Huawei, Ericsson or Nokia (ZTE is too dodgy even for most european companies)
Come on. You just stated that WE are not stupid. So I'm going to assume that you include yourself.
Just because the US does not want us to use Huawei for their own selfish reasons, does not mean that we should just trust China and Huwawei out of spite. Turn our backs on one big power that has pissed us off in the recent past, just to become dependent on another big power who? What kind of stupid reasoning is that?
Even if there's no evidence of spying so far, we should still demand from them to let us review all their hardware and code. Get the CCC involved. It's in our own best interest to do this.
US Tells Germany To Stop Using Huawei Equipment Or Lose Some Intelligence Access
"Your terms are acceptable. Let us know when you're going to be withdrawing your (snort) intelligence from us".
We really need to start assigning mod points more accurately soon
This is obviously true. We shouldn't be naive about the Chinese.
And I agree. Let's get the CCC involved. Let's use reproducible builds for the source code. Let's put the SoCs and chips under an electron microscope. Let's let the EU institutions fund such analysis and research in foreign hardware.
We have plenty of money and if not we can let the ECB print the money for this.
However. Let's not let the Americans tell us with whom we do business and with whom we don't.
We will do business with China.
Full stop.
Yes yes. It's going really well for the Brits. You can see that.
Poor people living there. It must have been great listening to the populist propaganda back then, though. Is costing them and will cost them their welfare state.
But whatever. If you look at the stock market in the EU, you notice that we've mostly passed the pain already. The UK has not, though. The EU country's economy is going fine and continuing. As expected.
Why do I speak English? Well, because you don't speak any other language. And I'm communicating to people like you. It's kinda a tradition in Europe to try to speak the language of the person in front of you. It's a form of politeness. Usually if the person in front of you notices that you have difficulties speaking their language, they'll try to make a friendly and social compromise with you on a language you both know.
Very often that is English. That's because internationally English is the current lingua Romana. When that lingua Romana switches to some other language, you bet that we will switch too. And that this website wont be dominantly in English.
But English is a relatively simple language. So why not? I'm fine with it.
You seem to be to only one who wants to turn that into a sign of superiority for the US. Well, actually, the US got English as their mother tongue from foreign invasions from Europe in the past. You do know that, don't you?
Why doesn't anyone talk about the NSA's known actions to install physical and software backdoors in American hardware, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., and that Huawei has never been shown to do that?
This looks like a Trump MAGA Tamtrum to protect Cisco, etc, and wage a useless trade ware.
As an European, I don't feel identified with this person's comment and tone.
Where exactly did Trunp say buy American 5g?
He did not. You dumb children have to make shit up to justify your TDS.
Go ahead, use the Chinese governments equipment in your national network. Same company already busted for spying, supporting a nuclear terrorist state, money laundering and who knows what else?
You hate Trump so much you would rather deal with your enemies. Well, go ahead. Do what you like. The price is intelligence info. Especially important considering your mass importation policy of terrorist rapists.
I have no idea what makes you think I'm a US citizen.
Oh and for the record. The commander and military force who liberated my village was Canadian.
The guy has a statue. We remember the soldiers who died for us every year with the whole village. Respectfully organized by the village counsel and federal government.
Some of them stayed here and they got housing from out government. They nowadays have a family, children and grandchildren. They are all integrated in our societies. And they are very much respected by our society. They just live among us, enjoying the freedom their grandfathers fought for. Just like our grandfathers did. Alongside with them.
Nah, they'll send Mike Pence over....the Germans response will be, "Hey, how come you sent us door stop, we have door stops."
Well, invoking Godwin's law is only legitimate if the mentioning of Nazi Germany isn't connected to the topic.
And it IS quite possible that without US intervention, the Soviets would have caved to the Nazi onslaught. After all, Stalin DID send unarmed men to defend Stalingrad, did he not?
So yeah, America did have its uses. YOU need to accept that. You're probably right, tthough, that this has little influence on our current debate.
actually Godwin doesn’t apply here given that it is directly related. Nice attempt at deflection though. Either way I guess you would rather be under Putin's rule than what you have currently.
Anything that spies on you sends the results to the same database in the end, which certain alphabet agencies and Mossad have direct access to.
Use of Huawei by Germany should be discontinued because it would be a threat to US intelligence for sharing secret information with Germany.
Get real, most Americans cannot find Venezuela on a map much less give a flying rat's ass about it. The problem in the knob in the White House.
As I said, we would probably be speaking Russian.
It indeed has little to do with what is going on today.
Multiple generations have passed since this event. As a non-German European I even don't blame any single German person anymore.
This is now history.
Since everybody is forced to use VPN to access Google and such.
Please don't save us and stay home. Spend your American tax dollars on bridges and education.
Like we do.
You need it.
A military confrontation between the EU and the US would end in an earth that is sterile. Keep this firmly in mind.
Sounds like a great idea to ask the ECB to print Euros so that we can create our own DARPA.
We need the Euro to inflate anyway.
The EU's economy is a lot larger than the US's economy.
You bet that we can support a larger military than your country can.
We just don't want to, right now.
But challenge us. Go ahead. You'll quickly notice how fast we will militarily dominate you after you are already economically dominated by the EU (and nowadays China, too).
Do you mean the political EU where they are not a part of and just have signed several agreements/treaties that, if they so wish, can un-sign?
Or do you mean the geographical EU?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Of course we should consider that Huawai may be forced to include backdoors.
On the other hand, with Cisco, we know it.
And if the US wants to start the blackmailing game, I'm sure they can call Cisco and make sure that their prices are.... compareable. Or if you have anything that may hint that Huawai indeed build in backdoors: Come up with some proof. Or at least an effing hint. Or clue. Or inkling... anything that is better than mere claim.
I'd even go as far and say that we'd be willing to believe any actual evidence (better to be spied on by the US than China) but as long there isn't anything like that the only sensible way to go is to put any possible vendor through a strict security check.
bickerdyke
Germany even after the Versailles treaty rebuilt its army so quickly it caught everybody by surprise.
Not only that. Almost all military high-tech that is being developed in the world is being developed in the European Union. This includes rockets for your ballistic missiles, space industry, airplanes, etc.
You really think we can't develop military hardware to fight the US? Look at where your army's toys come from.
They come from us. Especially the high tech. Especially that.
You don't want us to turn those toys against you.
Germany doesn't want Russia to get a hold of their intel.
That means that it is better to let China snoop in than to let the US snoop in.
"Mooching the United States"?
How so? Please elaborate, with real numbers based on real data.
Ok so the US is concerned that Huawei gear could be used to spy.
The question I have is, why the hell is data (government or otherwise) being sent over cellular networks in a way that compromised gear (regardless of manufacturer) could steal it?
What data (intelligence or otherwise) are the US scared the Chinese might steal and why would it be sent over any networks without encryption?
But we'll go with the batshit crazy stupid version you prefer, then: USA tells germany that if they move to 5G that the USA will stop sharing anything with them from their intel (though they will still demand that Germany hand over stuff to them, even if it is via a proxy state like the UK).
And it's Germany's right to not share information with the USA if they don't find the relationship beneficial to them.
Look, I get why the USA is saying this. It's not about pushing USA build equipment, it's about preserving security on the networks that carry the terabytes of secret information passing between the countries. The USA doesn't want one specific manufacturer's equipment in that network. I get why.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I figured I give you a low tech example: The Goalkeeper.
This thing is keeping your aircraft carriers safe. Developed and produced in The Netherlands.
But I can also show you some websites of European companies who are producing the mirrors and camera's of your spy satellites, rocket engines, bombs being given to your F22 pilots. You want nuclear technology including nuclear weapons? Sure. We do that too. Better than you. Much better and much more reliable. Like the German cars, you know. The ones everybody wants because they actually work.
The US's technology is basically marketing. The EU's technology is the real thing that actually works.
Of course you can develop military hardware, and the industrial infrastructure to manufacture it. But that takes time. The idea is to have such hardware toward the beginning of a conflict - very hard to build a factory once air superiority is forfeited and bombs rain down upon any ground movement. The idea of a US-European conflict is absurd - the US is the EU's security umbrella, and has been since WW2.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Iraq coms was disabled "remotely" by some well placed smart bombs. The USA knew where the critical infrastructure was and how to effectively disable the parts of it they wanted.
IF you stop and think about how all this stuff works, you will realize that it's easier than you might imagine to disrupt networks with weapons that go boom, and certainly easier than trying to disrupt systems from within. How many ways can you disable a switch center reliably?
In my opinion it's harder to do it using cyber attacks. The USA has all sorts of weapon systems for pinpoint hits on such targets. Hits that can be rigorously timed and nearly unstoppable. We don't need cyber to do this kind of thing in cyberspace, we can disable such networks, or at least deny the adversaries of their communications quite handily without it.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
And after that event, all of the world's military powers will be bombarding the US with nuclear weapons. Including the remaining EU military power.
Of course is the idea absurd. I wasn't the one who suggested it in this thread.
I called out the absurdity of the very idea from the beginning.
Your huwaaaaaaaawie meter is broken, complete redline.
Look up any UN peacekeeper involvement and run the numbers of body contribution. The US foots 80%. Go ahead, look it up, I’m waiting. While you’re at it how about donating as much money as we do to NATO? It cost money to keep the lights running you know, and the EU has just as many fucking billionaires as we do, how about paying an equal share? Is it too much to ask? Maybe then we could afford to fucking send our people to college without making them permanent financial slaves the rest of their life
Because why not? Sure we can ask Nokia and Siemens to work harder. But if they don't want to compete hard enough with Huawei, we just buy Huawei.
It's called capitalism.
Printing money increases supply and drives deflation, I'd suggest you not knowing something that simple is a pretty good indicator of how seriously the rest of your rhetoric should be considered.
The EU can't viably support a military the size of America's and nor should it want to. First the EU's GDP is roughly the same as the USA's not "a lot larger". Secondly, Europe has (rightly in my opinion) considerable government spending requirements on priorities like universal healthcare that the USA doesn't. The USA spends around $450,000,000,000 (500 Billion dollars) more on it's military than the EU states (inc the UK). It would be incredibly difficult for the EU to find nearly $1,000 per citizen per year in additional taxation or cuts to government spending to fund that increase. Even if they did, tripling military spending in a way that is remotely effective would take a couple of decades.
And you know what the above shouldn't matter. Although the EU should probably be investing more in defence the world, and Europe itself, doesn't need another military of that scale. The relative differences between the EU and the USA are still quite small, and anyone suggesting that it's beneficial to either side for this not to be a close friendship is an idiot or shilling for a country that benefits from that relationship being harmed.
It would be nice if they at least match 1:1 for troop donation. They are almost the same size the United States is it too much to ask for it to be 50-50?
I'm absolutely not disagreeing with you that the EU doesn't need a mega military like the US has.
The result would only be military confrontations that would basically wipe out all life forms on earth.
This is obviously not beneficial for either the US or the EU.
However. The EU does need to do business with China. No matter what the US thinks about that. This includes doing business with Huawei.
We are not part of the US's trade war. So the US can fuck off.
So what? We don't want to spend money on soldiers and military toys.
You do.
You are basically telling us to spend money on something we don't want.
Why don't you fuck off with your military?
Get out of Europe. Get out of Rammstein. Go away.
When you have someone who is willing to put the tab on their credit card to go out partying why not? Lets be honest that is how the US is funding the military spending to keep the defense economy running. It's like a snake eating its own tail. Some point something is going to give, China could stop it tomorrow except they have too much money invested as well.
So? We don't want to spend money on military.
You, the US (assuming you are a US citizen) do.
We don't.
Please leave Europe with your military.
Go away.
Actually, increasingly, we are ignoring you.
For example. Very few EU countries helped you in Iraq. Very few helped you in Syria.
You can bet that almost none will help you in Venezuela.
Meanwhile we are building the North Stream 2 pipeline with Russia.
You and your regime are being ignored.
We also want you and your military to leave Europe. We are indeed not investing in NATO. We will start investing in our own European army.
This will continue like that until you Americans get it.
We want you to leave.
The comments are always full of whattaboutism with Cisco. That's a red herring to the discussion. And to the arrogant Europeans who think they can live without US intelligence because Orange Man Bad. Enjoy losing access to all of those satellites, drones, ELINT platforms and more. Its a hard pill to swallow but Europe's military is tiny and you simply haven't invested in those platforms. Without access to US assets you have little to no intelligence gathering capability on your own. I also don't think there is anything unreasonable about the requirements. Would you have said the same thing in the 60's if the US refused to share intel over Russian built radios? Why do you think Chinese built hardware is acceptable for official purposes. You have your own tech companies, buy their hardware.
Certain things are documented over here. Like who liberated who isn't a matter of propaganda but a matter of well documented facts with thousands of witnesses.
We tried. Your guys begged us not to. Tell your guys to stop begging. Again, stop bitching about nationalism when your clearly against globalism. Nationalism is the opposite of globalism, you do understand how this works right? First you panick when trump wanted to pull out of nato, now your mad that he didnt. Make up your mind
So when the guy with the credit card is funding the party, its prettymuch his call on which bars you hit and whose balloons get bought right? Thats generally how it works.
I speak Dutch (well, Flemish). My master's native language used to be French.
Our Dutch speaking area is right now the area that is the area that keeps the country economically alive.
We say here that a language is a dialect with an army.
Well. There was never a "Flemish" army because Flemish are so many dialects that we'd kill each other with laughter about all the different ways to say friet (frietn, frut, frutten, fruttekes, etc) before we could pick up weapons to fight each other over it.
Still. Our masters (the Francophones in Brussels about 200 or so years ago) couldn't make us speak French to each other.
If there is any population on this earth who you can't convince that military might or political might can force a group of people to speak some language, it's the population that I grew up in. The Flemish people.
Will will psychologically drain you, your colonels and soldiers so much that they will massively start killing each other. Ask Napoleon, ask Julius Caesar, ask Hitler ask anybody. They all left Belgium. Because we are fucking assholes who will fuck up, psychologically, the minds of your stupid leaders.
It's totally absurd. You don't want to rule us. You will kill yourself.
Do you speak Mandarin, Russian, or Arabic?
It is critically important to speak your Masters native language if you want to survive as a thrall.
Arabic isn't too hard to speak, it can be easy to write, but it's a bitch to read.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
We simply don't want to spend money on military. And especially not on military like NATO that helps the US with world dominance.
So no. We're not going to try to match 1:1 for troop donation.
Bye.
Uh, I think you'd have less information about threats in the world without access to American information gathering.
That's about it. What do I care if Germany has 25% more terrorist attacks? It won't effect the parts of their economy that affect me.
And it isn't like Germany spends money collecting an equal amount of information to share.
I want the US Government to focus on protecting Americans; if we share data with allies, it is because we have shared values and a common cause. If the other country decides that is no longer true, then damn straight we should stop sharing data. Fucking DUH, that's what us American fuckwits think. But we have the same information access either way, too, so who is the fuckwit?
Also, nobody gets to kill Venezuelans but Venezuelans. Hasn't Germany done enough killing on their own, why are you chomping at the bit to see more killing? Why the fuck would the US bomb Venezuela? Are you that clueless that you don't even know that wars have causal factors?
We want you to slowly leave, while we build up our own EU army.
Not drastically and immediate.
But if you do leave immediate and drastically, then that's fine too.
We'll cope. We might take from you the military NATO bases and weapons that are stored there, though. If necessary by force.
Of course, germans did not build a wall
You really think that "Yankee go home" is means "please stay"?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Not really. You are still spending your credit card money in our European bar or disco. If we, the owner, don't want you here then you leave.
No matter the size of your stupid credit card bank account.
We can assume that the US intelligence on the issues pertaining German security (say terrorist network cells in Germany, or German infrastructure being infiltrated by foreign actors) is the one that interests Germans the most, and it's inconceivable that US won't share it because of Huawei. Imagine that after a major terrorist attack in Germany someone in the WH announced, "see, we could have warned you, but you! bought Huawei equipment! never!"
You can't even build enough transports to move your military equipment, even after decades of considering it a priority.
You didn't know this, but almost all the US military equipment is made in the USA. You thought you were building our rockets? And airplanes? Wow, get you some internet.
I'm sure you could design some military hardware, but good fucking luck trying to spend the money it takes to actually build it. You'd have riots in the streets before you were even ready to challenge Canada.
The EU is fully capable of building a military to take on America, they choose to spend their money on social programs (public healthcare, public education, etc) instead. If "Western" countries can reach an agreement with Russia and China to prevent conflict then America could do the same.
That was jointly developed by General Dynamics. From Virginia.
Your argument is so weak; because we buy some parts for spy satellites from allies, that causes you to think we couldn't build them on our own?
We buy those parts to help support your industry, in the hopes that somebody protecting you will cost us less of our own blood and treasure.
The dick-waving "we do nuclear weapons better than you" is hilarious though. Dude, when you're waving a fake dick that hard, it is called "projection."
German cars are not something "everybody wants because they actually work." If you want a car that "actually works," you buy Japanese. Everybody knows that. The German cars that "everybody wants" are luxury cars. And guess what? People want luxury cars wherever they're from.
As a European, I'm horrified by this kind of mindset. Sane Europeans only want peace and stability, and good relationship with the US which have always been mutually beneficial. I long to see complete demilitarization of Europe, and an end to costly and risky adventures overseas that have only brought more dangers to the European populace. No European would ever seriously entertain thoughts of confrontation - especially military - between us and the USA or any other, for that purpose. This "freax" person is either a troll or a severely damaged person. Please do not listen to that revanchist nonsense.
I'm not saying the US couldn't produce their own military toys. I'm saying the EU could produce the same military toys, and already produces the current military high tech toys.
I'm also saying that, if necessary, the EU could turn its mighty industry against the US's military industrial complex. And the EU would, while it itself gets bombed sterile, bomb the US sterile. Neither populations, not the US nor the EU's, would have one single survivor.
Except maybe a few who where smart enough to flee on boats that can drift for a few years on the planet's oceans. But those people will die of starvation a few years later too.
Somebody already mentioned it: a military confrontation between the EU and the US is absurd. It would mean the end of both mankind and all of animal lifeforms. Probably also the end of bacteria and plants, too. We would probably destroy the planet itself in the process.
It's absurd.
We're not telling you what to do; receiving access to US intelligence is a benefit for the recipient country. Being military information, sharing it has restrictions. That isn't telling you what to do, that is merely telling you what the conditions of being that close of friends are.
It is so European to be given a choice, where you can do it our way and get full access, or do it your own way with partial access, and we're still going to cooperate either way; and you present that as telling you what to do, because we didn't give you all our toys for free?
Personally, I hope your politicians are as stupid as your internet denizens, sharing our military intelligence with Germany was always an iffy proposition.
Nah, they'll send Mike Pence over....the Germans response will be, "Hey, how come you sent us door stop, we have door stops."
Not like this one you don’t, our doorstop has Genuine People Personality tech courtesy of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation. When he is approached by a female of any sentient species our GPP doorstop let’s out a shrill scream and runs away in panic.
I'm not, at all, asking for a military confrontation with the US. I'm responding to many people that it's absurd.
Please read what I wrote better.
That's probably true (that our populations wouldn't want it). And that's also why we aren't investing in or waging wars.
There are 2 non-Chinese equipment suppliers to choose as alternatives.
They're both European.
D'oh!
This story is about America demanding the Europe buy the same European equipment that the US is trusting, because we're on the same side. It is as simple as that. You'd rather have cheap Chinese junk than the local stuff, who is gonna pay your taxes with an attitude like that?!
Wait, I'm not saying it's a bad thing that the US stops sharing intelligence data with the EU.
It's fine. We are just saying bye to you.
I'm following this antics in Venezuela up close. My humble guess is that the real US leaders (those who rule the US economy) are seriously thinking of going to war against China (or maybe Russia too), and for this they are looking to secure a near source of oil by putting a puppet government in Venezuela just like they did recently in Brazil (as soon as the "pre-salt" - a new source of light oil in the Brazilian coast - was discovered the "protests" and the riots against the legitimate Brazilian government began).
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Or people go to other more affordable bars or decide to stay home and have a party and invite other people who don't necessarily get along with the guy who was the life of the party before.
Re "bye bye intelligence access".
Thats free real time global access to the CIA, NSA for Germany.
Germany can't get that quality alone globally.
Who is going to replace the data flows from a NSA, CIA, GCHQ, Canada ect for Germany? Thats 24/7 global spying for free.
Real time support on any topic of interest or collected mention of Germany.
The USA and UK will remove that access. Never to be given back to the BND.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
it's about preserving security on the networks that carry the terabytes of secret information passing between the countries.
By preserve security you of course mean maintain the US ability to slurp it all up.
Wanna buy a shirt?
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Every kind. West Germany intelligence after WW2 was a creation of the NSA, GCHQ and CIA.
Trusted West German staff where more connected to their US and UK NSA/GCHQ colleagues than any elected West German government over the decades.
That total trust and extra support carried over to Germany.
Germany now wants to go Communist?
Why should the US and UK support that and give their secrets away in Germany?
That was support for German freedom and democracy.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
What's next - invade Germany?
Oh, no need. Immigrants have already done that.
Enjoy the shit show.
Americans moaning about immigration like their country isn't based off the fucking concept.
Wanna buy a shirt?
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The best thing that the US could do is to withdraw from Europe. The US will save hundreds of billions annually, and the EU citizens can learn Russian.
Next is getting rid of most of their navy. They don't need it.
Excluding Mexico and Canada, International trade account for 5% of US GDP. They can thrive without. They don't need to keep the sea lanes open anymore.
The US is now effectively 100% energy independent. They don't need to keep the see lanes open anymore.
The US no longer gets anything from their Empire. Get rid of it.
thank you for making my point. In the world of life it boils down to 3 things, the whores, the pimps, and the paying client. At some point you eventually wish to stop being the whore and either become a pimp or become the paying client. Some way or another you're always one of the three, sometimes your a whore about one thing and a pimp about another. Whores, Pimps, and Johns my friend; whores, pimps, and Johns.
We Europeans are not stupid. We crystal clearly know ...
Way to undermine your own point lol
Wanna buy a shirt?
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You got TDS bad!
Actually, the axis powers are Russia, China, Iran, and Pakistan. N.Korea is really just a vassal state of China. Peace with N.Korea will only occur with the Chinese undergoes a revolution; and that wont happen. Well, not unless WW3 breaks out and every major global city gets nuked. In the aftermath, citizens will turn on each-other. At least in America, guess which group has the guns? Yeah, don't piss off the rednecks.
Life is not for the lazy.
I am German you fucking idiot! Trump is a stupid retarded pawn for Putin, but I vehemently hate Putin. I want Vladimir Putin to die in a fire as I watch. As for China and Russia, you are very wrong. China tolerates Russia, while Russia fears China. All of the Russian Far East is populated by more Chinese than Russian nationals, and all of Siberia. Russia losing both makes it easy prey for every other country, and Chinese victory over Russia is easy. Why do you think they have intermediate range nuclear missiles on each others borders? Hint: Intermediate is only good to attack each other.
Yep and at some point the pimp realizes the client can decide to go elsewhere regardless of how much free skin they have been provided.
That all said I don't blame the US putting restrictions on the hardware that their allies use especially for critical infrastructure especially if there is a concern about the data going across it.
You really don't get how globalism works do you? It doesn't work that way. You don't get a soft Brexit. You'll get threatened and your country will comply. It simply wont have a choice. A quick withdrawl creates a power vacuum, one that you wont be able to fill before someone else moves in. You claim you dont want a military but its not really a choice. You either use someone elses, and then capitulate to their every demand, or you use your own. Choosing neither means someone else comes in and makes the choice for you, and now someone else makes you capitulate to _their_ demands. Look there is a slow long game of world domination at play here. And you're caught right in the middle of it. Best I can tell its a 3 way battle between a Bear, an Eagle, and a Dragon. The EU really doesn't factor into this at all. In the end one of the 3 is probably going run everything. 10 years ago the Euro was worth 1.5 USD. Now its right on par. Remember that whole Greece thing that has german citizens really pissed off, and rightly so? One bank, Goldman Sachs, bet against Greece, the credit rating goes to crap and boom, economic turmoil. That wasnt an accident, that was someone saying 'play ball or else'. Meanwhile germany has to pick up the slack, the hard working ass germans who work 6 days a week are bailing out a country that barely worked 4 days a week with insane vacation time. Is Greece still working at half the time of germany? That cant be fun.
As a libertarian, I want you to have a strong defense. I want you to be independent and not need help. But the reality is you still do. Its terribly unfortunate because it makes you beholden and I hate that for you. Too many there don't want to do what is necessary to preserve your way of life. Its ugly, its messy, and not many have the resolve for it. It is also very much a necessity. But such things are very expensive and when you do pay for them, well then maybe you'll understand our difficulty in getting some of the same things we want for ourselves that you enjoy by specifically not having to pay for a defense. I'm sick of being the police for the entire world. I hate being part of anything the UN does globally. I hated going into Somalia. I hate having to guard oil Tankers just so some other country can cut supply in order to increase profits. As a libertarian I believe its everyone right to fuck their life up however they see fit. So naturally I am verymuch NOT a globalist, which pretty much makes me a nationalist by default. There is no inbetween here. Either your against Globalism, or you are for it. Globalism is unchecked more than unregulated capitolism. Its going to go down just like in Highlander, there can be only 1. It might take another 100 years, it might happen in as little as 10, but as long as globalism pushes its way forward, world domination is only a few steps behind it.
So, you cannot show any numbers. Thought so.
Oh please..
Canada entered WW2 on Sept 1939.. US entered in Dec 1941.
Sure.. you " mostly contributed by the US.".. except when you didnt as you were not even participating.
Next. when was his village liberated? if it was prior to 1941...
Lastly, Canada entered as a british ally... because again, the US wasnt involved until later in the game... so clearly Canada wasnt a "US ally" in 1939.
The Canadian flag wasn't adopted until the 1960s... so, no. They would have been under the British red ensign at the time.
Keep in mind when arguing with Americans that they don't believe anything ever happens in the world that they didn't solve. As far as they're concerned the war didn't start until they joined. Hollywood doesn't exactly help this view either when it frequently re-writes history to replace other nationalities with Americans in WWII films.
I don't get your joke. Please explain.
OK, let me call the Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance to race up the huwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawei.
This whole situation is fucking ridiculous and deserves parody in a lame joke because that's how lame it is. One because China is obviously lying and two because the US does it too and they are having a tantrum over who is going to control the biggest segment of the population so they both can fucking ass rape our freedom with a jackhammer.
A police state in everything but name.
Meanwhile people seeing this post on facebook have a mild moment of outrage and say "yeah" and slip back into their apathy as they keep scrolling.
Either way, we loose, get it?
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Your huwaaaaaaaawie meter is broken, complete redline.
sowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwyyyy
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
And interestingly enough, Germany has specifically stated that they aren't going to ban Huawei, but they ARE going to implement stricter security checks on ALL vendors.
So far Huawei has never been caught spying. The same can't be said for the US tech companies, so we'll see how that goes.
Americans don't like capitalism. They prefer Cronyism. It's not about who makes the better product at the better price, it's about who better bribes politicians and and who is willing to install American back doors.
umm someone else already beat me to it. The nato budget. There was no point in repeating it. The US spends more than every other country combined. Its unfortunate you kids today have a dictionary and encyclopedia at your finger tips and are too lazy to even ask google. In my high school years we had to get our asses to a college technical library in order to find a tenth of the shit I look up in the matter of seconds. And that data was often 10 years out of date. Are you always this bad at looking shit up? Eye witness testimony not good enough for you? Me actually having been a UN Peacekeeper MULTIPLE times not direct enough testimony? If you wont accept my testimony why would I believe you'll believe my numbers either. Go use the fingers god gave you and find out in real dollars (not percentages of a countries GDP) how much the US pays in both dollars and manpower compared to every other country. Then you can return with a little crow feathers left in the corner of your mouth. Only a fool would dispute how much the US pays into NATO vs the rest of the world. Its not even remotely up for debate.
You think a 5G network is just the 5G sites themselves? Talk about naive! They all route back to switching equipment. That switching equipment is Cisco in many networks, but Huawei also makes the switch gear, at lower prices, for better quality, and with no NSA spyware. The US wants to prevent ALL Huawei equipment in the network, they know full well that the de-facto replacement is Cisco for everything in the network except the actual cell sites.
The US couldn't care less about the cell sites at the end. As you point out, the US doesn't have a horse in that race. This is about the transport network where the US wants to keep Cisco (and all their own back doors) dominant.
Thing is, Huawei has never been caught doing this. Many American companies have.
It's quite ironic hearing the Americans talk about the risk that is China when their own government is the one that's proven to be the risk.
I don't speak Arabic, but when I sign my name on a tablet, it looks like Arabic.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
The US does not contribute UN peace keepers.
Goalkeeper uses a US gun, the General Electric GAU-8/A Avenger. It's famously used in the A-10 as well.
The only carriers ever fitted with Goalkeeper were HMS Invincible and HMS Illustrious, both of which are long gone. The USN carriers use Phalanx, which is a US made system.
ROKS Dokdo and ROKS Marado use Goalkeeper, but they're classed as amphibious assault ships*, not carriers.
*LPH for you naval types.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Oh so i wasnt in Somalia then? Youre a retard. I dont use that word lightly. I have been stuck under the command of some british general more times than you've been on dates. I fucking know when Im told we're now under the joint task force under authority of the united nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Next you'll be denying US troops in Kosovo for a NATO led action.
Contributing countries for KFOR btw: .... yes thats right, fucking TEN
Albania - 10 soldiers
Belgium - 1100
Bulgaria - 11 soldiers.... guess they didnt want to be shown up by the albanians
Canada - 1470
Croatia - 20
Czech Republc - 97
Denmark - 308, well we're finnally up to triple digits for an european country contribution
Estonia - 122
Findland - 395
France - 7000 (but they showed up with enough white flags for everyone just in case... haha)
Germany - 8500
Greece - 1000
Hungary - 223
Italy - 5000
Lithuania - 30
Luxembourg - 23
Montenegro - 2 (Really?!? was someone holding up their hand saying 'were still two men short, i need two men!')
Netherlands - 3600
Norway - 2300
Poland - 800
Portugal - 4 (see montenegro)
Romania - 62
Russia - 4000
Slovenia - 316
Spain - 1712
Turkey - 752
UAE - 1500
UK - 7000 (a country not much bigger than rhode island contributes 7000 of their elite forces,no wonder they want to Brexit, doing all that heavy lifting)
Ukrain - 1300
United States - 19,000
Germany's worthless without North Africa.
Americans moaning about immigration like their country isn't based off the fucking concept.
The world moaning about ancient history as if it's fucking relevant anymore. Those that migrated to the US hundreds of years ago weren't.....
BZZT.
Immigration peak was actually in 1930. That's not 'hundreds of years ago'.
mod parent up
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
it's about preserving security on the networks that carry the terabytes of secret information passing between the countries.
By preserve security you of course mean maintain the US ability to slurp it all up.
Um, you do have to realize that the Chinese government are not the good guys. Saying "well, what about NSA spying??" is a whataboutism argument. Yes, the NSA is a spy agency, but that doesn't mean that Chinese spying is something we shouldn't worry about.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whataboutism-origin-meaning
No secret information is transferred over any network without adding additional layers of encryption.
Which Huawai is pleased to provide, using Chinese developed and manufactured encryption chips.
At least he isn't worried about the weight of a Navy shipyard being to heavy for one side of it and causing it to flip over.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
You know who is spying on the German government ? US spy agencies, that's right. So much for being "partners".
WHATABOUTISM
You need to think precisely about things. NATO is not the UN. UN Peacekeeprs are soldiers contributed to UN missions, not US led cooperative ones. Try thinking.
And the US knows damn well that Germany will spy on Trump any chance they get. We spy on the UK. The UK spies on US. Everybody is spying on everybody, and everybody knows it.
What was your case, again?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Somalia WAS UN led... read the damn link i sent!!! You need to try READING
Which brings up an interesting point about "empires".
Compare the world map pre- and post- WWII. The war that established the US "Empire". Why don't we control all the territories that we conquered?
That "empire" thing is such a stupid talking point.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Right, totally missed the German flag next to your name *rolls eyes*.
Axis powers are without question a motley crew. Once their shared interests are achieved, they'll turn on each-other. India truth be told the only elephant in the room holding the peace as a counter force to both Russia and China. They wouldn't hesitate to make them take another spin at the wheel of life in an all out exchange.
Putin is a soulless sociopath, so we agree here. He needs to go. Still, you suffer TDS. It's bad mojo.
“Fear is the path to the dark sidefear leads to angeranger leads to hatehate leads to suffering.” - Yoda
Oh, I forgot, that quote is from a work of fiction. Besides, he said nothing of schadenfreude :). MAGA 2020.....beeootch!!
Life is not for the lazy.
I understand the thinking here that pretty much any Chinese company must bend to the will of the Chinese government which, in effect, means Huawei can become ( or, secretly, already is ) a government run company.
However, the same is true for any company in any country. Here in the US, companies have to play nice with the USG or risk losing those lucrative government contracts. Even if they don't play nice, the USG makes them unwitting participants anyway. ( See NSA Tailored Access Group ) Perhaps it is their extensive knowledge of just how EASY it is to penetrate a foreign network if you have access to the network hardware ( even briefly ) that is the source of the concern.
In the end, Germany will simply have to choose which is more important to them: Saving $$$ on network hardware or the Intelligence Data they receive.
It will be one or the other.
This is coming from the US Govt that has spied on the Germans in the past. What irony.. a nation with fingers in each and every conflict around the world. A shameless type of human with such audacity.. There are certainly unnatural things coming out of the US Govt no matter the party.
Blowing up stuff though draws attention to the fact that someone with such weapons did it. From there it's usually relatively simple to figure out who is responsible. Just look at the case of that airliner that was shot down in Ukraine. It didn't take very long to find enough pieces from the missile to determine who had fired it.
On the other hand if you use an electronic backdoor to bring down the same systems determining who is responsible can be much better obscured. Laying the blame for such an act could be very useful for fomenting civil unrest and such. The bar for participation is also much lower when it comes to cyber attacks and so the pool of groups that could be involved is much larger.
In the most extreme event if you're considering an invasion like the USA vs. Iraq then cyber options are clearly better. It took very little time to destroy the military of Iraq, but the work of rebuilding infrastructure is still a struggle today. Getting infrastructure back online is a top priority because terrorist groups and such feed off of a populace that can remember better times and are currently miserable because the invader blew up everything and hasn't fixed it yet.
No, that's Austria. Doh!
That wasn't really a what about though, more sarcastically saying 'preserving security' isn't the goal, at least not in the way it's presented.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Yeah, just banning them without proper cause doesn't seem like a smart idea either.
"Vertrauen ist gut, Kontrolle ist besser!"
Even if this is attributed to Lenin, and you may think about him and his ideology what you want, there is some pragmatic caution to this attitude.
Especially after we've already been burned by an ally, who probably took that Lenin quote to heart, it would be foolish to just assume the next big competitor we turn to would never ever abuse our trust and will always refrain from getting an edge over us if there is a chance. By extension it also only seems prudent if the same caution is extended to all other vendors as well.
Yesterday I asked 10 people in the office a "Fun International Trivia" question.
The question: What country on Earth is four days into a countrywide electrical blackout?
2 people knew the answer.
That said, I didn't learn of the blackout until day 3, and then I figured it would be a minor event. Today is day 5...
You sir, are spot on.
BlameBillCosby.com
Oh yeah, we Americans don't want those stinky intelligence on Iraq WMDs, we just demand more nude photos of Angela. If the Germans start using Huawei, how can we get those photos?!
Just means you cannot compete. If your best business strategy is lying about the products of the competition, then you do not have a future. Obviously that is one part of what is going on. The second one may be that US has trouble breaking into Huawei products to spy in its "allies". ("Vassals", really in their thinking.)
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
...if the hacked hardware intercepting the intelligence is replaced by Huawei equipment. So they're not really making a threat, they're just laying out the facts of the situation.
yeah but that's what we grew up in or condition to then we would put up with that is just the way things are same way we put up with our current government.
Actually, the countries in Europe who have the most recent direct experience with Russia/USSR (and have borders with Russia) very much do want the Americans to stay and increase their local presence. Just last year Poland made a direct request for a US base on its territory.
https://www.euractiv.com/secti...
and
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/22...
Um, you do have to realize that the Chinese government are not the good guys. Saying "well, what about NSA spying??" is a whataboutism argument. Yes, the NSA is a spy agency, but that doesn't mean that Chinese spying is something we shouldn't worry about.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whataboutism-origin-meaning
You say this and I immediately remember seeing, numerous times, /. posters saying they'd rather China have their any of their information than the US. Funny considering how often people get into a rage about something knowing their interests or dislikes.... yet suddenly there's no problem with China having the same and/or more?
Now that would be news! :-D
Right, the people who walked into the village were not the cause of the village being saved.
It took the entire war effort.
Without the support of the Americans, the Canadians would not have been there at all.
It is quite simple; the village was liberated by the Allies. Not by Canada.
It wasn't even Canada that chose that specific village to be assigned to the Canadians.
Pointing at the Canadian military and thinking that is substantially distinct from the American military, during joint operations, is just absurd. They're cheek and jowl. Canadian soldiers are ready to protect America, just like America is ready to protect Canada.
We don't have to tell Canada what to do for military cooperation, because they were already in the room when we decided what it was we wanted done, and they probably helped us decide it.
We were supporting the British war effort from the start, did you actually not know about that?
We didn't have a big enough military when the war broke out to start fighting right away. Our whole society had to be put on hold, the Sleeping Giant had to wake up and take over American life for a few years to build enough equipment and train enough soldiers to go and fight.
Both my grandfathers fought in WWII, one in the Navy and one in the Air Force. You can't do those jobs without warships and warplanes.
My grandfather flew behind enemy lines, over the alps, to deliver donkeys and bullets to Partisans in the Balkans. On the way back over, they'd aim hand-tossed bombs out the door of the plane at the German supply paths over the Alps. They calculated how many bombs they could carry by their "reserve" fuel.
He didn't do it because he thought they'd be thankful, he just did it because it was the right thing to do. Snooty Europeans can't really imagine that aspect of the American military, which is also why they don't have comparable operational capability. Courage of conviction is a powerful thing, and we have it. Do you think Europeans making noises, "schna, schna, schna" into their coffee causes them to be morally superior? That's exactly the Freedom we wanted for you! Duh.
That's because we never had an "empire" like the Europeans did, we only had Allies who can come and go as they please.
Only an idiot would think we didn't "pick sides" prior to giving the British substantial material support. We gave them as much free military equipment as we could ship through contested waters, and it was a lot!
If you only have "thousands" of witnesses, you have no idea how they got there, or who else made it safe for them to walk into your village.
I guess you think some Canadians wandered out behind German lines into your village, and the Germans moved their lines back to let them have it.
You should listen to the Germans cry and whine when we threaten to reduce troop numbers, though.
"Oh but the jobs on the base, we need those dollars!" LOL
You'd "cope" by learning Russian though.
You wouldn't look back on it as "coping," either.
Yes. Whatever Europe says, it means "please stay," because they also say that.
Europe is very careful to only let people who don't matter say the "go home" part, and then they coordinate to make sure all the important people say "please stay."
Also, most Americans aren't even from New England, the region that has "Yankees." So when they say, "Yankee go home," we know it is a total fucking cluestick talking, who has no concept of international geography even at the "names and places" level.
What does it even mean? Does it mean you want the Americans who support the British to go back to Britain? Or is it just a warning that "schna, schna, schna" sounds and the smell of cigarettes are about to erupt into the air of a cafe somewhere? A warning to get out umbrellas to avoid drowning in a rain shower?
China doesn't loan us money, they buy US Treasury Bonds.
The bonds have a certain repayment value. If a major buyer stops buying, that actually means the other buyers will get more profit. The higher the demand for bonds, the lower the profit.
If China stops buying them, non-China demand goes up.
In fact, most of them would be bought by Americans if the international demand was low enough that it could compete with other investments we have available. But large investors like nation states can't really find other investments that large; the money would just sit in a giant Scrooge McDuck vault otherwise, sitting there shrinking due to inflation.
Except that you're the town drunk in this metaphor, and the bar owners all love us. ;)
no one is telling them to buy American either there are plenty of European providers of this equipment. its just one company with probably security flaws. To be honest any nation that uses equipment manufactured outside of its borders to handle Intelligence. should rethink it's security
This "let's get bullied by a country because other countries are even worse" thing is getting rather old and irritating by now.
Ezekiel 23:20
It was either Russian military personnel on holiday fighting for the rebels, or actual rebels. I can't remember whether they determined if the launcher was within the Russian borders at the time or not. They mostly did think that it was a military plane, an accidental butt firing is unlikely, and given that Russia was supply soldiers I find it unlikely it would have been in the hands of a bunch of yokels just randomly pressing buttons.
The point is that pieces of the missile were very quickly found among the wreckage of the plane. Those pieces were then used to identify the specific type of missile and the launcher capable of using it. That all narrowed down the possible suspects incredibly fast.
You can put a chips under an electron microscope, but it won't help you:
https://www.itnews.com.au/news...
New things are always on the horizon
Where exactly did Trunp say buy American 5g?
He did not. You dumb children have to make shit up to justify your TDS.
He didn't outright say it, but that's what he wants
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1098581869233344512
I want 5G, and even 6G, technology in the United States as soon as possible. It is far more powerful, faster, and smarter than the current standard. American companies must step up their efforts, or get left behind. There is no reason that we should be lagging behind on.........
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1098583029713420288
While I mostly agree with you, a few points:
Montenegro was Serbia's ally in the wars and were bombed during the actions to free Kosova. Sending 2 people allows them to participate to show a positive current political position, but without traumatizing the people being protected. You don't really want the combatants to do the peacekeeping.
Albania and Bulgaria are both really poor and downtrodden. They can't really send more.
UK will still be contributing to peacekeeping in the same way, because their position in NATO will be unchanged. They send more because they want to; like the US.
Germany sends that many because if they don't that's a lecture they're really tired of hearing and blame on their grandparents neighbors.
“Well, I think we have a lot of foes,” Trump told CBS News at his Turnberry golf resort in Scotland. “I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now you wouldn’t think of the European Union but they’re a foe.”
Buy Ericsson. At least if I don't flee to Finland.
Your argument is so weak; because we buy some parts for spy satellites from allies, that causes you to think we couldn't build them on our own?
Because you can't. E.g. the balls in the ball-bearings of the inertia navigation systems of your cruise missiles are made in: Japan. They are actually derived from 1980s video recorder ball bearings for the magnetic head.
As far as I know the states can do a few things right, the stuff Elon is doing, Intel Chips (within limits considering Spectre et. all.) and hand guns. Did I miss something? Is there a car that is better than a european? A plane? A sub? Ah, well, you have lots of nukes, we not so much.
You can not even produce the steel needed for the catching ropes of an air craft carrier. Ah, but you have carriers, Germany e.g. has none. Well ... happy carrier if it meets a Swedish or a German sub ... good bye.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
You are a bit delusional.
While Europe has nukes, Germany's nukes are on bombers and on "field artillery shells".
So that leaves France and UK to nuke USA. With submarines.
Most of them are not really operational. Europe has no ICBMs.
So, no: EU/Europe has no nukes to hit the US in a significant way. ...
The EU has in total something like 8 carriers, 4 mothballed at the moment, 2 or 3 under construction (UK ones, no idea how many they are building, ah, and a new french on if the construction is not put on hold)
While we would beat US easily on our soil, just like we would the Russians, there is no way the EU/Europe could attack the US with a quick positiv result.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
the hard working ass germans who work 6 days a week are bailing out a country that barely worked 4 days a week with insane vacation time.
I think you are mixing up Greece and German working times and vacations.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
LOL so when an American liberates something it's because of guts and guns and glory, but if anyone else does it they just wandered on in. I love that idea. I bet that's coming soon to an elementary school history book.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
The go home and please stay is simply explained.
Politically we want the americans to go home.
But economically we like them to stay, (even if it would be bottom line much more economical if they left, e.g. for the housing market).
However Rammstein/Germany is the biggest military airport of the world. And it has one of the biggest military hospitals of the world. I have no idea how many starts and landings they do and how much personell is stationed there or how many people work in the hospitals.
But they all have flats there, and buy food ... (they don't pay taxes, though).
So when they say, "Yankee go home," we know it is a total fucking cluestick talking, who has no concept of international geography even at the "names and places" level. ... you introduced the term, we did not look it up in a dictionary
You are just plain stupid. Americans are called all over the world Yankees or Yanks
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I actually didn't know that Yankee referred to only a certain type of American. From now on I'll use "Seppo" (shortened form of "Septic Tank" which is rhyming slang for "Yank").
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
It is actually well established that the russians shot it down.
And: the rebells are russians, too!
Perhaps you have a problem with grasping that Ukraine is its own country and fights against Russia from outside and russian rebells from inside.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
nothing has ever been found to show that they were. If they did Germany and the rest would drop them like a hot potato. This is just anti-China bashing because its a popular sport at the moment.
the US would have more credibility on this subject if they hadn't already admitted to listening into the Germans phones. This sounds more like a commercial thing than a security issue otherwise the US would supply evidence of Huawei listening in.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
all they have to do is provide evidence of Huawei kit being used. Otherwise it just sounds like Trumps trade war with China is not going as well as hoped and they want help from friends Trump keeps kicking.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
then they pulled it down because it didn;t work
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
You are right of course, if you want to be stealthy about doing this, cyber is the way to go. But I was talking about what happened in Iraq, twice. Where before the US invaded their communications where disrupted... Both times it was pretty obvious what was happening and who was doing it. The poster I was replying to was trying to claim that the communications disruptions in Iraq had a cyber element to it and I was pointing out that cyber had little to do with it.
Cyber may be the up and coming way a cold conflict is conducted, but in a shooting war, a hot conflict, it's a general waste of time. It's pretty easy to disrupt communications networks when you can hit a target in a 10' circle 99% of the time with high explosives from a thousand miles away, or you have control of the airspace and can do it from 5 miles away even cheaper. Cyber isn't reliable enough to compete with this.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Yes, and American has the most immigrants of any nation. But you can only handle so much at a time which is why many of us are only in favor of legal immigration...which is what my wife went through. Wait your turn in line, do the damn paperwork, or stay the fuck out.
Just another day in Paradise
As a Cold War veteran, I spent six years over there helping defend against the Soviets. In the early 90s when they broke up, everyone seemed to think we'd all be holding hands and kissing each other's asses. How's that worked out for the folks in the Ukraine?
History repeats itself.
Just another day in Paradise
How did that Syria thing work out for you with all the refugees? How is working with Russia working out for the Ukraine? Do you really believe Putin doesn't have more expansion plans?
Just another day in Paradise
Cisco has been caught with back doors. Huawei has an unprecedented level of scrutiny on their code and equipment, and the most resources ever spent in the history of the world trying to find a back door, yet none has yet been found.
Beyond that, it's a tough argument that the US is a bastion of freedom these days. The US is also far more likely to be in a position to leverage information gained this way to harm me and my country than the Chinese are.
You actually need to take a look at the history of events to know, instead of just deciding what you think happened based on the feelies you have when you think about the names of different parties.