Actresses, Business Leaders, and Other Wealthy Parents Charged in Massive College Admissions Scandal (npr.org)

Federal prosecutors charged dozens of people on Tuesday in a major college admission scandal that involved wealthy parents, including Hollywood celebrities and prominent business leaders, paying bribes to get their children into elite American universities. From a report: Federal officials have charged dozens of well-heeled parents, including actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin, in what the Justice Department says was a multimillion-dollar scheme to cheat college admissions standards. The parents allegedly paid a consultant who then fabricated academic and athletic credentials and arranged bribes to help get their children into prestigious universities. "We're talking about deception and fraud -- fake test scores, fake credentials, fake photographs, bribed college officials," said Andrew Lelling, the U.S. attorney for the District of Massachusetts.

Lelling said 33 parents "paid enormous sums" to ensure their children got into schools such as Stanford and Yale, sending money to entities controlled by a man named William Rick Singer in return for falsifying records and obtaining false scores on important tests such as the SAT and ACT. Describing how Singer worked to present his clients' children as elite athletes, Lelling said, "In many instances, Singer helped parents take staged photographs of their children engaged in particular sports. Other times, Singer and his associates used stock photos that they pulled off the Internet -- sometimes Photoshopping the face of the child onto the picture of the athlete" and submitting it to desirable schools.

Comments

This is news?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the news thing here? I thought it was well known that connected people got their children in to "elite" educational institutions by donating a new library or something.

I guess the news is that they tried to avoid giving the college the money and instead tried to come up with a valid excuse reasons why their children might be accepted. But it seems like the crime is less bribing people to get into "elite" institutions and instead bribing the WRONG people.

Re:This is news?

[HornWumpus]

It's news when somebody does something about it.

It won't be news when Andrew Lelling's career ends.

He will be made an example of. 3, 2, 1...

Re:This is news?

[Kernel Kurtz]

What's the news thing here? I thought it was well known that connected people got their children in to "elite" educational institutions by donating a new library or something.

I guess the news is that they tried to avoid giving the college the money and instead tried to come up with a valid excuse reasons why their children might be accepted. But it seems like the crime is less bribing people to get into "elite" institutions and instead bribing the WRONG people.

I think the problem is these people simply are not wealthy enough for their kids to be accepted on that basis alone.

Re:This is news?

[Aighearach]

A bunch of specific people getting named, shamed, and arrested definitely makes it news instead of just something that people know happens.

They didn't bribe the "wrong" people, they bribed the "right" people who really did have the connections. Most of the people arrested already did it, successfully, before authorities busted the company selling the service.

It isn't like they accidentally hired a front company for the FBI.

Re:This is news?

[XXongo]

What's the news thing here? I thought it was well known that connected people got their children in to "elite" educational institutions by donating a new library or something.

It's news when somebody does something about it.

It's news because they weren't doing that; they were literally cheating: forging fake documents, fake test scores, fake athletic achievements.

Re:This is news?

[Headw1nd]

I think this is pretty much it. What we are seeing here is the 1% trying to scam their way in because they can't drop $10M+ like the 0.01% can. Unfortunately for them, nobody is amused, not the Universities, not the Elites, and certainly not the middle-class (or lower) who were counting on these spots being up for fair competition. As others have pointed out, one dumb rich kid's endowment can fund the education of dozens of talented students, but these bribes help nobody but the people they went to.

Re:This is news?

[ChromeAeonuim]

The primary reason 'elite' universities exist is to enable the wealthy to convert wealth into prestigious credentials. I'm always baffled that anyone thinks otherwise when it is so clearly and obviously the case. Yes, they let in a few token poor people for free, but their primary means of selection overwhelmingly favor the wealthy and connected.

The big lie they tell us is that getting in is a sign of merit, and using the connections facilitated by those universities to jump start your career also means you earned what you got. They market themselves as the apex of progressive enlightened intellectualism, but in reality, they act as the regulators of institutionalized classism and elitism. The issue in this case isn't that these people cheated. It is that they cheated the wrong way. There will be some faux outrage, then back to business as usual.

Oh, and this doozy of a quote from TFA:

"There will not be a separate admissions system for the wealthy," he added. "And there will not be a separate criminal justice system either."

Legacy admissions begs to differ. What a joke. How could anyone say that with a straight face?

Re:This is news?

[HiThere]

The news is that they're doing it outside of approved channels. You're supposed to endow a chair or build a building or some such. And not hide behind a deceptive third party. (But the deception may be cheaper if you don't get caught.)

Re:This is news?

[Kernel Kurtz]

I think this is pretty much it. What we are seeing here is the 1% trying to scam their way in because they can't drop $10M+ like the 0.01% can. Unfortunately for them, nobody is amused, not the Universities, not the Elites, and certainly not the middle-class (or lower) who were counting on these spots being up for fair competition. As others have pointed out, one dumb rich kid's endowment can fund the education of dozens of talented students, but these bribes help nobody but the people they went to.

Sums it up well.

Re:This is news?

[ceoyoyo]

Yes it's news! These parents were cheating the system! They paid someone to fake some records and deliver a few individual bribes instead of engaging in the time honoured system of institutional bribery you describe.

How are elite universities supposed to maintain their campuses, endowments and football teams in the face of increasing cocaine costs when these upstarts are bribing admissions officers with thousands of dollars instead of the whole institution with tens of millions of dollars?

Re:This is news?

[ChromeAeonuim]

Exactly. The problem isn't that they cheated. Cheating is both acceptable and expected to the point it is ingrained into the elite admissions system. The problem is that this particular group cheated the wrong way. They cheaped out on their cheating, and in the world of wealth and privilege, that's the real problem.

Re:This is news?

[Talderas]

That's a good summary and then the icing on top is that the bribes were done as charitable contributions. Not only did they attempt bribery they were defrauding the United States and state governments of tax revenues.

Re:This is news?

[tomhath]

Bribes, - excuse me, donations - payed directly to the schools are also deductible. But at least the school benefits from those.

Re:This is news?

[skids]

It's news because they weren't doing that; they were literally cheating: forging fake documents, fake test scores, fake athletic achievements.

Well, when your accountant manages to find a loophole to avoid paying millions to the public trust, you have to spend it SOMEHOW.

Re:This is news?

[HornWumpus]

That is why you'll always be broke.

Re:This is news?

[youngone]

The drunk fool George W Bush attended both Yale and Harvard, proving your point.

Re: This is news?

[edris90]

The "right people" are whoever can get it done discreetly without getting caught, in that specific instance and can only be known with any real confidence in hindsight buy a successful perpetrator.

Re: This is news?

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried to bribe a collage once but got thrown out of the Hobby Lobby by security.

Re:This is news?

[jcr]

Donating a library is standard practice. Bribing University employees directly and personally is not.

Should we care that a pack of Hollywood helicopter parents got gouged on the bribes to get their incompetent brats into formerly-prestigious schools? Probably not.

That being said, my apathy on the matter isn't a reason for anyone to skate on a wire fraud charge, and the minions who received the bribes should certainly be staring down the barrel of multi-million dollar lawsuits from their employers.

-jcr

Re:This is news?

[jcr]

they were simply Ayn Rand followers

Oh yeah, Hollywood is full of Objectivists. Totally.

Putz.

-jcr

Re:This is news?

[fustakrakich]

How could anyone say that with a straight face?

They're professionals.

Re:This is news?

[HornWumpus]

Getting the same GPA as Al Gore.

Straight 'gentleman's Bs' for both, no math or science to speak of for eather.

Re:This is news?

[h33t l4x0r]

The drunk fool George W Bush attended both Yale and Harvard, proving your point.

Pfff. Those were my safety schools. I guess his dad didn't have enough juice to get him into Wharton.

Re:This is news?

[youngone]

Getting the same GPA as Al Gore.

Their academic achievements are irrelevant. They are members of the ruling class you guys have over there. It really doesn't matter which side of the house they are on.

Re:This is news?

[AlwinBarni]

I think this is pretty much it. What we are seeing here is the 1% trying to scam their way in because they can't drop $10M+ like the 0.01% can. Unfortunately for them, nobody is amused, not the Universities, not the Elites, and certainly not the middle-class (or lower) who were counting on these spots being up for fair competition. As others have pointed out, one dumb rich kid's endowment can fund the education of dozens of talented students, but these bribes help nobody but the people they went to.

Sums it up well.

Agree, and because it's such a spot on summary to the topic I'll let myself to repeat it one more time (in italic).

Re:This is news?

[Uberbah]

Getting the same GPA as Al Gore.

You guys keep saying that like it's supposed to mean something. This is probably going to trigger your wingnut lizard brain, but Gore was prescient on both the internet and climate change. Whereas Bush was always dumb as sack of hammers, taking his private and public sector positions and running their respective organizations into the ground. Positions he was handed, solely based on his last name.

Re:This is news?

[Antique Geekmeister]

For bribes of that scale, the school can fund another student or two, or get a building built that they need for classes. I suspect the schools are upset because they did not get their _cut_ of the money, except as tuition.

Re:This is news?

[Alan R Light]

Well said. It's also worth noting that the talented students ought to WANT the children of wealthy donors at their school, because that is a large part of the reason for going to an elite school in the first place: to rub shoulders with the sort of people who can help them out with funding for their awesome ideas at a later date. That's well worth the admittance of students who might not have quite made the cut otherwise. It also serves the interests of investors who want to form connections with the people who can best implement new ideas.

But these parents are mostly not that wealthy, or not quite famous enough that their fame can have a similar effect - and they didn't make arrangements with the colleges themselves, they made arrangements with individuals at the colleges who were not authorized to make those decisions. The victims of these crimes were the colleges.

Re:This is news?

[Alan R Light]

The talented students WANT the wealthy people there. That is the whole point of an elite school: to connect talent with funding.

Re:This is news?

[Alan R Light]

Elite universities offer prestige to the wealthy, and connections to wealth for the talented.

For a talented student from a non-wealthy family, the whole reason for attending an elite university is to meet the people who might fund your great ideas.

Re:This is news?

[Scroatzilla]

Redundancy detected: They market themselves as the *apex of progressive enlightened intellectualism*, but in reality, they act as the regulators of *institutionalized classism and elitism*.

Re:This is news?

[BranMan]

Don? Is that you?
I'm not sure because the grammar in your post is correct.

Re:This is news?

[DeVilla]

You said it. You can always recognize new money when you see it.

Unacceptable

[Nidi62]

What ever happened to getting your kid into college the good old fashioned way? Donating enough money to get a building named after you and guaranteed admission to any descendants.

Re:Unacceptable

[Nidi62]

At least this has the benefit of providing others a place to learn. I have no problem giving some asshat kid a free admission if he is allowing 500 other people to get an education on his dime at the same time.

The money isn't going to the schools. The parents are paying some middleman who is either paying SAT/ACT proctors to help cheat on exams, hire people to take the exams for them, or paying college coaches to designate the children as "recruits" who then get easier entry requirements or priority admission.

Re:Unacceptable

[ShanghaiBill]

What ever happened to getting your kid into college the good old fashioned way? Donating enough money to get a building named after you and guaranteed admission to any descendants.

According to TFA, most of these parents paid the consultant $250k to $450k. A donation that size is not going to get your kid admitted automatically. It would take millions.

But the moral/ethical/legal difference is that those millions would go to the university to help fund its operations and scholarships, rather than into the pocket of some slimebag consultant.

Re:Unacceptable

[chispito]

At least this has the benefit of providing others a place to learn. I have no problem giving some asshat kid a free admission if he is allowing 500 other people to get an education on his dime at the same time.

No, it has the benefit of additional maintenance and upkeep in perpetuity.

Re:Unacceptable

[HornWumpus]

Depends on the school and just how dumb the kid is.

Paying the full price for tuition will get most, only moderately dumb rich kids, accepted to most 'elite' schools. Less than useful if they only flunk out, but many liberal arts programs are just four year parties. Almost everybody at Harvard/Yale/Sanford gets a 4.0, the story is 'they're all that smart'...Bullshit all day long. The ones that didn't (e.g. Bush, Gore) just completely 'phoned it in' and got 'gentlemen's Bs'.

Re:Unacceptable

[DarkOx]

There is another important detail. Donating a building and getting special accommodation etc was an open secret. There was no "fraud" about it. Recall the issue with fraud is that the misinformation causes someone or some entity to act against their own interests. Legal definitions aside its about not eroding the trust in society. If I donate a few million to put up the "DarkOx Center for Information Science" with a nod and wink that DarkOx Jr will get accepted next year; the school has a choice they decide its worth accepting a possibly inferior candidate to get the building or they can refuse my donation.

In this case though the schools were getting nothing the consultants were pocketing the money and the schools in a lot of cases were being mislead. They were given faked test scores, faked photos of athletic achievements, told the students in question were going to play this or that sport (usually used to raise the public image of the school) when they had no intention and maybe no ability to do so. So it was pure fraud. The institutions were arguably harmed here, and the sleazy consultants made off with the cash. Also some of the bribes were funneled thru fake charities as well for what appears to be tax evasion.

Re:Unacceptable

[BringsApples]

Thanks for the info, I didn't RTFM, because "rich people spending their money in illegal or immoral ways" isn't news to me. However, I do find it odd that these people would pay $450K to get their kid into a school. Give me $450K and I'll start my own business.

Re:Unacceptable

[ShanghaiBill]

Donating a building and getting special accommodation etc was an open secret.

At many schools it is not a secret. They are quite open about favoring donors. This makes sense, since the limit on a school's capacity is money, not the number of chairs in the classroom. So a donor pays for their own kid, while expanding opportunities for others. The cheaters did the opposite.

Re:Unacceptable

[DarkOx]

Give me $450K and I'll start my own business.

Pfft. Spoken like a poor. The whole point of going to these places is so you can make well connected friends who give you cushy fake consulting jobs or finance your political campaign. Its to ensure a steady stream of other peoples money into their pockets into the future.

Start a business, good grief businesses may fail and running a real one takes actual work.

Re:Unacceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

The most ridiculous thing about this is that they have to go to this extent to buy their kids into college. If the colleges and universities were smart they would just say let these people just buy their way into school.
What would it harm? Being rich has a lot of advantages anyway, this would be another one. This would make things more transparent.

Re:Unacceptable

[ChromeAeonuim]

Almost everybody at Harvard/Yale/Sanford gets a 4.0, the story is 'they're all that smart'...Bullshit all day long.

When I was in grad school, I met a few fellow grad students who did their undergrad at those 'elite' sorts of universities. They were smart, no doubt, but no more so than the rest of us public state school people. They just had nicer clothes, cars, and more expensive hobbies.

I hate that myth that the elite schools are for smarter people. They're for wealthier people's kids, so that when those kids become wealthy/inherit that wealth, the ruling class has some faux meritocratic justification for it's own position in society. And unfortunately, so many of us buy it hook, line, and sinker.

Re:Unacceptable

[sfcat]

I hate that myth that the elite schools are for smarter people. They're for wealthier people's kids, so that when those kids become wealthy/inherit that wealth, the ruling class has some faux meritocratic justification for it's own position in society. And unfortunately, so many of us buy it hook, line, and sinker.

It depends on the school and department. For some types of programs (mostly hard science and math), those elite schools really are better (harder) and have higher standards which gets you smarter students and better professors. But that's not universally true and there are always exceptions that prove the rule both in terms of bad products (people with degrees but little ability) and good schools with bad departments. Very often only 1/3 or less of the departments at an elite school will be truly quality places of education. Also, PhDs aren't necessarily more educated than those with only a BS. Again, it depends on the school and the department. I've met plenty of people with a PhD in CS and some other type of undergrad degree who knew almost nothing about CS other than their very narrow area of study. But these are not necessarily the rules, they are often the exceptions for the top couple of departments in a specific field. Very often only the top couple of departments are of higher quality and the rest are mostly the same reasonable quality and that's only mostly true for the more measurable (scientific) fields. Social status is a thing and people are social animals no matter how much us introverts wish it wasn't so...sigh...

Re:Unacceptable

[ChoGGi]

I'm pretty sure the AC was referring to "Donating enough money".

Re:Unacceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

I was replying the the GP and referring to the "old school" way of donating for a building. Way to track the conversation at the level of the rich kid that got in because of parents.

Re:Unacceptable

[Type44Q]

In this case though the schools were getting nothing

They received a varied and distinctive selection of idiots.

Re:Unacceptable

[ShanghaiBill]

USC is definitely a 'good school'.

Sure, USC is a decent school, but nobody is going to be impressed if your kid gets in, and it is not going to open doors like a degree from Stanford, Harvard, or Berkeley.

If my kid decides to go there, I won't be disappointed, but I certainly wouldn't pay an extra $250k to get them in. It is just a middle-of-the-pack university. USC's most famous alumni is O. J. Simpson.

Re:Unacceptable

[rtb61]

Just what you would expect when ugly but rich marries and breeds with pretty but stupid, you get somewhat less ugly and slightly less stupid and parents with massive egos, their little kiddy can not be an ugly stupid failure, narcissism on parade.

Why the criminal charges, it's a scam, so what, the school get's money and the idiots can a pretend degree in the liberal arts or business studies. It's not like anyone is profiting from those degrees, they will have no impact in the real world, the nepotism placement will just put it up on a wall, in their parents company with a job for life, where zero performance is required, all been going on for decades. Seriously where do you think all those shit movies and tv series come from, the spawn of the rich and ugly and the pretty but stupid. Technically only the investors in those projects should be peeved.

Just all empty PR and marketing bullshit, why was it a crime, unless they are drawing on government or state funds for that education.

Re: Unacceptable

[astrofurter]

I've worked with a few Stanford grads. Dumb as a bag of hammers, every one of them.

This is a personal anecdote. YMMV.

Re:Unacceptable

[bluegutang]

Perhaps your grad school took the top students from state schools, and mediocre students from "elite" schools, so your peers be unrepresentative of all students from those schools. Naturally, a grad school (and/or department) would attract students of a similar quality, regardless of the qualities of the schools those various students came from.

I just went to Wikipedia and checked out where the last 8 US-born science Nobel Prize winners got their bachelors' degrees. It was Haverford, Princeton, Cornell, Caltech, UC-Berkeley, MIT, WUSTL, Caltech. 7/8 went to fancy private schools (5/8 truly elite). The only public school was UC-Berkeley which is also known to be "elite". Based on this, it really does seem that intellectual talent is concentrated in "elite" universities. I suspect you would find the same concentration in any field (CEOs, politicians, tech startups, non-science Nobels), but I chose to check science Nobels since they are probably most based on talent and least on preexisting wealth or connections.

Re:Unacceptable

[BringsApples]

You're probably correct. I guess I was thinking that anyone that can afford to spend $450K on their kid's social scene, would have already been a member of that social scene.

Re:Unacceptable

[Alan R Light]

The bigger reason for elite schools is networking - allowing extremely talented students from relatively poor families (probably still upper middle class) to meet the people who can fund their ideas.

Re:Unacceptable

[h4ck7h3p14n37]

What I don't understand is why anyone would pay that sum of money to get someone into college. You'd get a much better return by investing in an index fund and going to a community college.

Re:Unacceptable

[Areyoukiddingme]

You're probably correct. I guess I was thinking that anyone that can afford to spend $450K on their kid's social scene, would have already been a member of that social scene.

They are. The point of these elite schools is for all of the elite children to rub shoulders and get to know one another. You can't manage to run an elite without some cooperation. Quid pro quo is what makes their world go 'round, and it's harder to accomplish that if you don't have a well-placed frat brother.

Teaching those life lessons

[Virtucon]

It isn't what you know or how hard you work.
It's who you know, how much payola you're willing to give them and how much leverage that buys you.

Re:Teaching those life lessons

[Anonymous Coward]

These kids grow up knowing they can bribe their way into whatever they want and continue to do so throughout the rest of their life. One more reason the wealthy end up as scum.

Re:Teaching those life lessons

[hey!]

Well, not exactly. These people were actually committing fraud by cheating on tests and bribing officials.

Take Jared Kushner; he was admitted to Harvard after his father pledged 2.5 million dollars in donations. But that's not so bad. Sure, it means he probably displaced a more academically qualified candidate. But *the practice* of preferential treatment of big donors has allowed Harvard to amass wealth the enables it to offer poorer but gifted students a leg up they wouldn't have been able to afford. Harvard waves tuition for students whose families make less than $65K, and allows families making between 65k and 150k to pay on a sliding scale from 0 to 10% of their income.

The people who were named for cheating displaced more qualified students too, but they contributed *nothing* to the system in return.

Re:Teaching those life lessons

[fortythirteen]

Both can be true. If you apply yourself and continue to refine your abilities you will almost assuredly end life on a higher rung of the economic ladder than you started.

The rich are also going to buy their way into things. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Re:Teaching those life lessons

[Virtucon]

bribery = payola
cheating on tests = hey johnny, here's the answers

It's all about leverage and how much it costs to get that leverage. The fact they were committing fraud somehow didn't cross their minds. I suspect plea deals to be the norm for all but the biggest defendants and they'll wish they'd saved the cash for the team of lawyers they'll need to represent them.

Re:Teaching those life lessons

[Anonymous Coward]

Take Jared Kushner; he was admitted to Harvard after his father pledged 2.5 million dollars in donations. But that's not so bad. Sure, it means he probably displaced a more academically qualified candidate. But *the practice* of preferential treatment of big donors has allowed Harvard to amass wealth the enables it to offer poorer but gifted students a leg up they wouldn't have been able to afford.

The knock on effects are that college education is devalued, because hiring someone from Harvard might mean someone gifted, might mean someone who doesn't deserve to be called educated. Which reduces the wealth of every gifted person graduating but does not reduce the wealth of the elite. Therefore, for the next generation the problem becomes worse. The school needs to allow more bribes because fewer gifted people are able to afford said school and an ever increasing amount of Harvard graduates are Trump-levels of intellectual might.

Don't pay the Danegeld because you will never get rid of the Dane.

Re:Teaching those life lessons

[hey!]

Not really. Hiring someone from Harvard is hiring someone gifted OR connected OR rich or some combination. It's not bad to walk into any interview having the interviewer believe at least one of those is true.

Re:Teaching those life lessons

[hey!]

I don't think it makes that much of a difference to the destiny of generations who gets into Harvard, or indeed all Ivy League schools.

The Rich

[djbckr]

Note that Trump's budget released yesterday calls for a cut in education funding. This affects the working class. The rich can afford private schools. The masses get dumber, the rich get more powerful. When will it end?

Re:The Rich

[ScentCone]

Note that Trump's budget released yesterday calls for a cut in education funding. This affects the working class.

It's the faucet-like availability of government-backed loans and too-easy education money that is directly responsible for driving tuition prices through the roof in the first place. The "working class" can learn remedial algebra and gain the ability to write a complete English sentence finally taught to them at a very reasonably priced local community college just as easily as the rich kid can get it taught to her at an elite school her parents can afford. "The masses" are dumber because the culture is rotting, not because community colleges and state schools are inherently less able to teach critical thinking skills than is a college with $20k/year dorm rooms and a gluten-free menu in every sorority kitchen.

Re:The Rich

[LostMyAccount]

This is exactly right. Tuition increases and loan increases are totally a feedback mechanism. As soon as tuition goes up, loan amounts go up to match. As soon as more money is available, schools increase tuition.

The slop gets used as exactly as you describe -- what were once totally acceptable "dorm rooms" now need to be 2 bedroom condos. It would not surprise me at all if there were "dorms" on college campuses touting their in-room hot tubs.

Re:The Rich

[CrimsonAvenger]

Note that Trump's budget released yesterday calls for a cut in education funding.

Hmm, 12% of about $85B (Federal budget for education) cuts is about $$10.5B. Total spending on education at all levels is around $670B. SO, you're really worried about that 1.5% cut?

Especially given that Federal education dollars mostly fund the Department of Education, not, you know, actual education....

Yes, almost all education spending (nearly 90%) is done at State and Local levels. And the higher level of spending (with local at the bottom, then State, then Federal) you get, the more likely that the dollars so spent are spent on bureaucrats, rather than, you know, teachers....

Do note that what this is about is people cheating to get their kids into prestigious schools (suitable for the upper crust only - the riff-raff need not apply). If they really want to throw money away buying their way into the "upper crust" schools, let them go to town! It's not like someone going to college on a football scholarship isn't already dragging the system down a bit every year....

Re:The Rich

[Ichijo]

The "working class" can learn remedial algebra and gain the ability to write a complete English sentence finally taught to them at a very reasonably priced local community college just as easily as the rich kid can get it taught to her at an elite school her parents can afford.

False.

Re:The Rich

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not really true. The "per capita" government spending on higher education been going down for a long time. Mainly because more people are going to college. So in order to cover the per capita cost of providing a college education institutions have had to raise tuition faster than the inflation rate.

Re:The Rich

[Anonymous Coward]

More people are going to college because how easy it is to get those federally-backed loans. People who really have no business going to college, very little hope of ever paying back those loans and next-to-zero odds of graduating unless the standards are lowered to the point that their degree is worthless. All because of the student loan scam.

Re:The Rich

[chispito]

Many years ago I went to what is now a top 5 university for college and followed it up by going to what is now a top 10 university for graduate school.

I can tell you the difference in education between the two was totally shocking. After what I did as an undergrad, getting a PhD at the lower ranked school was more about just spending the time to check all the boxes than any real work.

So I know there is a tremendous difference between just the top few schools. I can easily believe that after you get out of the top 10 or 20 universities, the differences are minimal, but at the top, even just a few spots in the rankings indicates a huge difference in quality of education.

Perhaps your sample size (two universities) was not adequate to draw meaningful conclusions.

Re:The Rich

[Anonymous Coward]

This is exactly wrong. Reductions in per capita spending on higher education are responsible for increased tuition.

https://www.educationnext.org/higher-ed-lower-spending-as-states-cut-back-where-has-money-gone/

Re:The Rich

[Ichijo]

Here you go. Now find me a citation that does not place the working class in an income bracket below the middle class!

The study also found the same effect in farmers. Are farmers middle class or impoverished?

Re:The Rich

[Anonymous Coward]

The masses have always been dumb. They just didn't used to go to college.

Re:The Rich

[magarity]

Note that Trump's budget released yesterday calls for a cut in education funding. This affects the working class. The rich can afford private schools. The masses get dumber, the rich get more powerful. When will it end?

The federal government's spending on primary education is a very small fraction of what state and local governments spend. However since it is 100% marginal income cash it is used as nothing less than a carrot approach to dictating national policy, "Common Core", "Race to the Top", "No Child Left Behind", etc. Schools would chase NONE of these programs if it weren't for the few extra % the Feds kick into their budgets. Are these programs that get endlessly griped about really affecting the working class and making the masses so much smarter?

Re:The Rich

[Weirsbaski]

It's the faucet-like availability of government-backed loans and too-easy education money that is directly responsible for driving tuition prices through the roof in the first place.

Maybe the free-flowing loans is an effect not a cause?

IE- the faucet is open to distract from the fact that public funding has gone done considerably over the last several decades: "Sure, we let college tuition rise at double the inflation rate, but don't worry a minute about it- you can get loans lickety-split!"

Re:The Rich

[Shotgun]

The money doesn't get used for dorms. It gets used for administration buildings and gyms.

Re: The Rich

[edris90]

That's because of State curriculum requirements four schools that are compromised agendas vet value social conditioning as a higher priority then teaching people to think critically. if you teach someone to learn and just give them access to reference material they will learn all on their own, but the higher educated a populace is the more progressive they become which is economic suicide in a country where money has no real value and it is actually based on projections of stability and stagnation of real progress. Solving problems does not result in profit it in fact reduces profit, at the same time reduces need for monetary solutions in daily life. We will never increase the average intelligence and education level of the main populace until we adopt different economic values value solutions over profits

Re:The Rich

[HornWumpus]

Sucks to be you. Gonna suck worse in 2020.

Re:The Rich

[Anonymous Coward]

I take it you haven't been to college in decades. The dorm rooms have been getting smaller and smaller in order to fit in more students. At my college, they basically added 1 occupant to every room and turned all the floor lounges into 6 bed dorms.

What do they do with the increases in tuition every year and the mandatory, grossly overpriced meal plans? Build more administrator buildings and raise administrator salaries. About every 5 years they swap to a different IT system. Hell, they even spent a ton of money creating Second Life classrooms which no one used.

Spending money on students is the last thing a college does.

Re:The Rich

[Uberbah]

It's the faucet-like availability of government-backed loans and too-easy education money that is directly responsible for driving tuition prices through the roof in the first place.

The problem with that old saw, is that if it was just about easy loan dollars, more schools (public and private) would compete for those dollars, forcing prices back down. So you can toss that in the garbage bin of failed winger talking points, like DDT bans causing malaria or increases in the minimum wage leading to job losses/inflation.

Re: The Rich

[Alan R Light]

Well said.

Re:The Rich

[fropenn]

The public disinvestment in higher education is a tragedy; the US will soon no longer be the leader in quality higher education (in fact, the US may already be behind China in this regard).

Health insurance for the faculty and staff is also a major driver of cost in higher education.

Madoff Redux

[Tablizer]

Per Bernie Madoff scandal, many interviewees repeated a variation of "yes, it smelled funny, but I couldn't resist the big returns. I hoped it would pay off before the bottom fell out."

Similarly, the salesperson here probably said something like, "I can get your kid into X University for Y grand. But I can't reveal our proprietary methods."

Thus, technically the customers may not have directly known it was done in an underhanded fashion, but it was spewing red alerts like a bad 4th of July.

Re:Madoff Redux

[Nidi62]

Similarly, the salesperson here probably said something like, "I can get your kid into X University for Y grand. But I can't reveal our proprietary methods."

One person paid $6.5 million. They had to known it was a shady deal. $6.5 million would pay for a team of full time tutors to follow the student around all day for 4 years.

Re:Madoff Redux

[Whorhay]

I don't think that is the case with very many of these folks. The articles I've read thus far state that the parents knew this involved illegal stuff and sometimes even the kids themselves knew it. Some of the methods involved making up excuses to take SAT and ACT tests at specific sites where proctors that were taking bribes would facilitate the cheating, allowing others to correct answer sheets and or just take the test for the student.

Re:Madoff Redux

[Aighearach]

Well, when they ask you to make up a fake disability for your child to have so they need extra time on the test, you do know something about what is being done. When you also have to make up a fake family event so that they can take their entrance exams in some specific facility, instead of their one close to you or at the school you're applying to, then you do know something fraudulent is happening.

And when you pay $500k for the above services, you really know a lot more about the service. Actual test prep doesn't involve lying to the school, and it doesn't cost $500k.

Or, if you pay $2.5M for your student to get listed as being on an athletic scholarship, you probably already know what college sports are, if your child is really on the team, and if they've dedicated enough of their life for that to make sense. If it involves photoshopping a picture of their face onto the body of an athlete, you obviously already know the sport isn't a big enough part of their life to be earning a scholarship.

I'm having trouble finding any accusations here where they might have thought it was something else. Plus, I mean, they got them talking about it on tape before making arrests; if there were innocent rubes who didn't know, they probably didn't even get charged.

Re:Madoff Redux

[apoc.famine]

I can't wrap my head around thinking that $6.5m would be worth it to get your kid into a school. Most people would realize that that's more than a lifetime of earnings for 95% of the population or more.

If they set that up in a trust fund, that poor kid would have to live like a peasant, subsisting on only about $110,000/year (tax-free) to make sure that he doesn't run out of money by the time he's 90. That's twice the median household income. It puts them in the upper-middle-class without lifting a finger. And it could be more than that if they invested it and it could grow over time, or got a job. Or married someone with a similar financial situation or who had a job.

What's the point of trying to get them into a college that they're too stupid to do well in if you're spending that sort of money to do it? I'm sure that kid would rather have the money and go to a party school. And a good college isn't going to make a god damn difference in their life, given that sort of wealth already.

Re:Madoff Redux

[denzacar]

As I was saying before some pathetic incel froggy snowflake tried to match his pathetic mod points to my powers of copy/paste...

a team of full time tutors to follow the student around all day for 4 years.

How would that get them and their kids into the upper-class twit network where they'd be guaranteed the life-long benefits of hobnobbing with billionaires and "leaders"?
You don't get to be in a billionaire club with mere millions.
Why do you think Dumpy had to suck off the Moscow Midget?

Millionaires are the poor people of the one percent club.
They make them walk around on all fours, naked, with a lit candle up their ass, for entertainment.

Re:Madoff Redux

[bluegutang]

A good college will help these students out in their future elite social lives. And these people are rich enough that they can afford to bribe college admissions AND set up a comfortable trust fund.

Re:Madoff Redux

[Alan R Light]

For the VERY wealthy you are looking at this in the wrong way. The elite schools are a way to connect very talented people with money. The children of very wealthy people tend to be above average intelligence anyway, though due to reversion to the mean they are usually not the elite of the elite - but the reason that the children of wealthy parents should be at elite schools is to give the elite students the opportunity to network with wealthy families. This is how good ideas get funded!

I'm not surprised

[TigerPlish]

I am, however, disappointed. Angry, even. Irrationally so.

All my life I was taught to be good. To not steal, not cheat, to not lie. I live my life like that. I stay out of the way. I don't steal, I try not to cheat (my little cheats are leaving a tiny bit earlier, to get a jump on the other commuters, I have a heavy right foot so I tend to take off from lights like a scalded cat and go around corners like a cat on carpet, etc.) I have lied, and I feel bloody awful when I do. I have done bad things, and I feel truly awful.

These people don't, I guess? They just take what they want.

I always suspected that the cheaters are the ones that truly get ahead. The ones who make the big bank. (BIG bank, not get-by-and-put-some-away-for-a-rainy-day bank). They can't do it without cheating.

This just confirms it in a way that's visceral, palpable.

Think on that next time you see that what's driving that Ferrari 458 next to you is a bleached, tanned, perfect specimen and you, who has yearned for a prancing pony since childhood will likely never have one.. and if you do, it'll be a 50-year old 308. (Nothing wrong with that, but I hope you see my point. We have to earn it, they just walk in and buy one. The one who earned it will savor every tick of the valvetrain, every rrrp of the exhaust.. they who walked in and bought it will probably spill their latte all over the leather and worse, far worse.)

Once, I was leaving work, 2 jobs ago.. the wife of the CEO drove a RR Wraith, a car I'd love to just even look after, never you mind drive.. she cut to the right of all of us waiting on the left-turn light, dragged that beautiful yacht of a car all over wet concrete mud and slurry, then gunned it and went into traffic on a red light. And she gets away with it. Cunt. Her husband was no better, he drove a RR Phantom and was unable to park it without a 20-point turn.

Fuck the rich. I really do hope karma is a thing. Imagine being reincarnated from rich asshole to possum?

Re:I'm not surprised

[HornWumpus]

Italian and English trash is it's own punishment.

Your supposed to laugh at the fools, knowing how badly they are getting reamed.

Nothing more fun than outrunning someone in a car that cost less than your competitors last oil change. Rich fuckers generally can't drive. Ferraris especially are surprisingly SLOW.

Re:I'm not surprised

[fluffernutter]

Amen. It's hard to feel like there is a world where an honest person can get ahead any more.

Re:I'm not surprised

[TigerPlish]

Ferraris especially are surprisingly SLOW.

Who cares, they make the most amazing noises. I don't mind slow, I love Miatas, had one for 10 years, very slow. And very fun.

But it didn't make the noises.

Before a 308, I"ll have another 1-st gen Rx-7, tho. That shit stole my heart. I still miss mine, and it's been almost 30 years since I sold.

It's not about speed, but if I have to say that, then I know I'm talking to the wrong person. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it. So I guess I"m talking to the wrong person.

Re:I'm not surprised

[Aighearach]

Yeah but, they're going to jail, and you're not.

The specific people in the story are not nearly as privileged as they were led to believe.

They don't let you out of prison on the weekend to drive your Ferrari.

Re:I'm not surprised

[TigerPlish]

Yeah but, they're going to jail, and you're not.

They'll go to a country club prison, serve minimal time, and be out before the kid graduates.

Only the poor do Hard Time.

This won't change until the Rich also do Hard Time, and lots and lots of it.

Manafort much? I wish they'd given him 25, not 4. If I did that, I'd be in the clink for a long, long time, because I don't have his connections.

Re:I'm not surprised

[HornWumpus]

You should get a six banger mustang. They make 'amazing engine noises'...With the stereo speakers, but you obviously don't care.

I'll take the LAST RX-7 myself.

Hell get a Leaf and change the noise to '2005 Ferrari F1'.

308s are just awful. You think that's an 'Amazing engine noise'? It's a weak dinky little V8.

Re:I'm not surprised

[DarkOx]

I think that is a bit jaded. There are definitely a lot of inter-generational aristocracy out there that have had everything handed to them. There are a lot criminals and cheats just as you say.

There are also a lot people who just won the genetic lottery and are really really smart, driven etc and high achievement comes easily to them. There are also guys and gals who had the big idea and took the risks to make it a reality. In short some people do earn it; but like you I suspect a lot more folks just have their hands in the cookie jar.

Re:I'm not surprised

[omfglearntoplay]

You get to pick your life, at least partly. If you are a lying, cheating, no good bastard who is rich (or poor)... there is a high chance you have no real friends, your wife is waiting for the divorce settlement, and even your kids think you are a piece of trash. These people usually pretend they are happy, all the while they are more alone than anybody on the planet.

I mean really... who is truly going to be friends with a piece of shit like that? They might fake it enough to get by in some groups, but they don't have anybody or anything real.

Re:I'm not surprised

[TigerPlish]

308s are just awful. You think that's an 'Amazing engine noise'? It's a weak dinky little V8.

308s are awful. Turn everything on, then turn on the hazards, and all the lights inside and out pulse (weak electrical). Fusebox fires. Fiberglass cam sprockets. The a/c is an afterthought, quite literally. Timing belts every 16k. I"m well familiar with the car. Still love it. The look, the sound, the way it drives, all of it.

But it's not a weak, dinky v8. It's a tiny little twincam (in the later cars), 3 liters. roughly 240 horses (guaranteed if fuel injected, open to debate if carburated).. and let me tell you, an absolute blast to drive. You can floor it in the first 3 gears and not get arrested. All the while that little thing behind your ears screaming it's little heart out. I've driven one a few times, spent time under the hood. Tight, but doable. Any decent car nut with sensitive hands oughta be able to do the timing belts, tune the webers, all that jazz. (the one I drove / knew / washed was injected, black on tan over gold bbs wheels)

Horses for courses, man. You like tomato, I like tom-ah-to. You like big burly brap brap thumpa thumpa BRRRRT *shift *BRRRT* , I like waaaaaaAAHHH *shift* aaaaaahhhHH *shift*

Mustang is on my short list, as is the GT-86 toyobaru. There's honestly not much more out there. New porsche is out of my reach. Maybe a 2 - 4 year old Cayman sometime down the road, the new 4-banger one. But the toyobaru is probably the most logical choice for what I like (I just wish it had a flat six or a rotary, I don't like agricultural low-revving engines)

Re:I'm not surprised

[TigerPlish]

I am a bit jaded, youbetcha.

In short some people do earn it; but like you I suspect a lot more folks just have their hands in the cookie jar.

It's easy to spot those those cheated their way into it, usually they make it obvious.

Those who earned it? They may be the guy next to you in the slightly-rusted, quite-dented 1982 Mazda B2000 pickup, with the 10 dollar Casio on the wrist. They have my respect.

But the cheaters? Fuck 'em. *ptooie!*

Re:I'm not surprised

[HornWumpus]

You think 240 ponies isn't a weak V8? It's barely a decent turbo 4.

The very worst thing about Ferrari? No aftermarket, because only fools tune on collectors items. What does a clutch for that 308 cost? More than I paid to build a good old American V8 to double its factory power.

I've already got a car for 'looking at'. A 1960. I like to drive. Overpriced eurocars are, even under ideal conditions, A to A cars, same as my 1960. Because you just can't park them and not worry. Last time I left the '60 in the driveway, 4 people stopped, knocked and made offers. What worries me is the ones that just noted the address, intending to come back.

Re:I'm not surprised

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

Italian car fan here.
I've owned several Alfas (Spyder, GTV, GTV6, 164) Lancias (beta, and a real, honest to god 037) Abarth (the real Abarth, not what passes for them these days) a Maserati (Biturbo, don't hate, they were beautiful cars) and the occasional British car (TVR 2500, and a '71 MGB)

There is nothing like driving a car that was built by hand, by people who did it for the love. It's in every fibre of the car, every noise it makes, and in every car repair bill you get (1000$ for a pair of wipers/arms for the 164)
Nothing like it in the world, and while I no longer own those cars, having consolidated down to a single ratty 308GT4, I did it all honestly. Hard work, careful planning, and some luck.

I'd do it all over again too. Sure these cars get outrun by a modern V8, but so what? If I want straight line speed, I'll go back to playing with dragsters

But overall, I agree with you, fuck the corrupt rich,
Behind every great wealth is a great crime.

Re:I'm not surprised

[serviscope_minor]

This won't change until the Rich also do Hard Time, and lots and lots of it.

America already incarcerates more people than anyone else by quite a margin. I don't think imcreaeing it further is likely to improve anything.

Youd be much better off with hefty fines proportional to overall wealth.

Re:I'm not surprised

[CrimsonAvenger]

Yeah but, they're going to jail, and you're not.

Unlikely. They'll be booked, released on bail, then when the trial comes, they will be fined heavily and not be given prison time.

Re: I'm not surprised

[HornWumpus]

Street cars are tuned for comfort. Duh. Turn a wrench. Even BMWs come from the factory on mush.

All modern cars fall apart on schedule, they've all gotten good at that kind of 'tuning'. There are no worse cars, in the world, than VWs.

Re:I'm not surprised

[HornWumpus]

If they had to cheat on digital logic how could they have possibly passed the hard courses?

Given what you've posted, easy solution. Open book tests. Those were the worst. Let em bring in notes etc. Good luck to them.

I had open book test for fields, control systems and digital controls. Damn those tests sucked. IIRC thermo too.

You had 400+ students in senior level classes (which included grad students)? I'm skeptical of your truthfulness.

Re: I'm not surprised

[astrofurter]

+1 first gen RX-7

Re:I'm not surprised

[CustomSolvers2]

All my life I was taught to be good. To not steal, not cheat, to not lie.

There is a reason for that: these are the ideal behaviours in most of the cases. Some liars might get away with it, but always at certain cost, and others will get caught and lose much more. There are many different ways to pay that cost: it might be ignorance/living in a bubble/not having really seen or experienced much, being afraid of yourself/getting caught, your whole life permanently depending on someone's else arbitrary decisions and/or pure chance, etc. Additionally, just the fact that our society is systematically appraising certain values (nobody likes cheaters, not even cheaters themselves) represents a relevant fulfillment and self-esteem boost for people behaving in that way.

I understand that there is a lot of hypocrisy and that having certain feelings is relatively common. But I also think that they are provoked by a lack of proper understanding. For example, you are complaining about realising that liars are getting what you want and are also expecting your behaviour to be somehow appraisable. Why? Are you willing to pay the price to get what you want? Go for it! Lie, be dishonest and enjoy the advantages and disadvantages of your actions. Too late for you? Teach that to your family, friends, etc. Try to build an empire over lies for your heirs to eventually be wealthy (you could have the nicest tomb in the whole cemetery,!). Accept your previous error and change your behaviour! Actually trying something is the best way to know for sure if you like it or not.

Even though I haven't ever had much money or influence or power or anything really, I think that I have experienced and learnt quite a few things from many people. I have made lots of mistakes in my life, in fact a big part of my learning has been eminently based on my own errors. It has taken me quite long to find what I truly consider my place, to be sure about what I want now and in the long term. Curiously, I haven't accomplished yet most of my goals. I am only sure about the path and direction to follow. When I read about millions of $ being unmotivatedly wasted, unknowledgeable people making stupid decisions or unfair actions of any type, I do complain, try to change things and all that. But I certainly don't feel envy. I rarely think about these people but, when I do, all what I feel is pity. I imagine myself, with my current knowledge and expectations, in a bubble of hypocrisy, dishonesty, fear, and I feel like puking.

It would be nice if I could get lots of money/advantages suddenly and for no reason (= what rich people gets), but how could I justify it to myself (why me and not others?), and what about being permanently afraid of others/losing my possessions, having to deal with lots of hypocrisy and frivolous expectations, etc? Why not becoming a social climber? Being disrespected by richer and poorer people. All the day thinking about doing whatever is required to accomplish my long-term goals, but unlikely now, not feeling any kind of daily fulfillment, not even respecting myself. And what about when I get there? Would my nice car, house, (probably-attracted-by-my-money) wife and (probably-spoiled) kids compensate years of doing regretful things? Rich people would never truly consider me one of them, neither poor people. I would only have money and the feeling of having won some kind of race, but not completely fairly. No, thanks. I prefer to enjoy every single second of my life like I am doing right now.

Perhaps, I don't have nice things or have to pass through more difficulties than required, but I also enjoy a ton every single bit I get. If I accomplish all my goals, I would truly deserve it and would enjoy even more. If I can't get all what I want, I would feel reasonably well too because of accepting that I did all what I could (or, at some point, the cost become unacceptable). You might get faster to your destination in your Ferrari, but I will be surely enjoying a lot my long walking trip :)

Re:I'm not surprised

[TheDarkMaster]

Congratulations, you are one of the few who are seeing the world as it really is. Society has not fallen to barbarism yet because most of society still believes in the lie of "meritocracy", but in every successful cheat of the 1%, the End comes a bit closer...

P.S: But don't worry. Everyone dies someday, and when the time comes for these cheaters they always end up in my "office" for a little chat... :)

Re:I'm not surprised

[CustomSolvers2]

It would be nice if I could get lots of money/advantages suddenly and for no reason (= what rich people gets), but how could I justify it to myself

Just to be clear: I did get lots of advantages for no reason, at least in comparison with many other people. But you have to draw the line somewhere. My line is having a reasonably comfortable life as per your country's standards and not belonging to elites or being unfairly preferred in a systematic manner. For example, in my country the public university education is pretty cheap (+ I got scholarships) and relatively good. So, most of people in my country could have got what I did and more if they wanted. I am very grateful for my somehow privileged position in the world and think that most of people should too (very few cases where there isn't someone whose situation is much worse than yours). My previous post was about the extraordinarily rich people, the 1% and above, those to which rules aren't always applicable for reasons like greed, the context where the cheaters mentioned in this article could be considered not too rich.

Re:I'm not surprised

[Alan R Light]

These were third tier rich. That type cheats because it's all they know.

The really big money funds the elite schools directly, and the bargain is that their children get to mix with elite students, and the elite students get to mix with the sort of people who will fund their great ideas.

Re:I'm not surprised

[BranMan]

Oh fields! Damn what a tough course, but our prof (one of the good ones) let us create our own cheat sheets. You had 1/5 of one side of a standard piece of paper - in it you could write or draw whatever you wanted. And it got passed in with your test. You got it back though - to fill in the next 1/5 for the next test. And so on - by the finals you had the whole year one one sheet of paper. Awesome way to do it - though the tests were likely as hard as your open book ones.

Good times

Re:I'm not surprised

[CustomSolvers2]

I have made lots of mistakes in my life

Just to be clear (II): most of those mistakes have been about expecting too much from people ('s knowledge, understanding capabilities, dignity), the real-world applicability of fairness, etc. I have many defects, but lying or being too egoist/greedy or having unmotivated prejudices (much less based on so irrelevant-to-me issues like money or social status) have never been some of those. I know that lying isn't worthy, because of having seen the consequences in other people and enjoyed the benefits of honesty myself.

Re:I'm not surprised

[squiggleslash]

America already incarcerates more people than anyone else by quite a margin.

While this is technically true, the GP was talking about incarcerating more rich people. There doesn't seem to be much evidence that the rich are being imprisoned either as much, or for as long, as poor people. You could triple the number of rich people imprisoned without it making a blip on the US incarceration rate.

Fines? Here's the thing. Let's suppose we make it proportional to income, and we make the fine for doing X 90% of one year of income. Do you think the single mother on $25,000 a year will be impacted by this less or equally compared to Warren Buffet? (Not implying the latter has done anything deserving of being fined, just adding him as generic rich person that doesn't seem to be overly controversial right now)

The latter will go "Ouch, now I only have $X million to live on this year, I may even have to borrow some money", the former will go bankrupt, probably go to prison, and have her kids taken away.

We could probably do with an alternative to both prison and fines, but merely making fines proportional to wealth isn't going to fix anything. Indeed, it might even make things worse - like subpar healthcare reform, for example, it may merely delay real reform, and in the mean time the rich will find ways to wiggle out of it, like the Daily Mail managed to single handedly destroy a similar attempt at reform in the 1990s by encouraging poor and middle income people to hide their incomes, publicizing the absurdly high default fines they got as a result.

Re:I'm not surprised

[squiggleslash]

like the Daily Mail managed to single handedly destroy a similar attempt at reform in the 1990s

* in the UK.

Sorry, I had that part written in my head but somehow it never hit the keyboard.

As an aside: Slashdot really needs a clarification mode to give people the chance to correct their own comments. The "You're banned from writing anything in response to your own comment because you posted it less than a minute ago" thing is fucking stupid.

Re:I'm not surprised

[HornWumpus]

My Fields teacher was a couple of years from retirement. Nice enough old guy, but we still plotted his death in detail while waiting to see if he would show up that day. We were basically on our own, but still tested. He had years of test questions, we had files, even knowing what was coming, it was still a bitch.

I had the 'cheat sheet allowed' type tests too. After all Medicine is the MD 'Memorized Degree'.

Didn't go to the approved source

[Headw1nd]

Of course this scheme was going to get busted! If there's one thing a racket hates, it's competition. It's a shame that these people didn't realize that they should have bribed the colleges directly, with gifts and endowments. That way it's up to the school to figure out how they can get your kid in the door, and it's all above board. This is basically the Ivy-League educational equivalent of trying to sneak candy into the movie theater.

Re:Didn't go to the approved source

[jeff4747]

Yes, but the schools charge so much for their guaranteed admission program. You can't really blame these folks seeking out a discount.

Whew, that was close!

[Freshly Exhumed]

I was about to pay several million dollars to pass my son off as the world's greatest collegiate hockey prospect (except he can't skate and is in his 40s) when I saw this Slashdot article. Now I've done something even better: I signed him up at the University Of American Samoa for a law degree! Go Land Crabs!

Thanks Slashdot!

Re:Whew, that was close!

[Headw1nd]

SCUTTLE SCUTTLE!

Thats the value of elite schools

[Jarwulf]

The value of elite schools is the connections, they're social circles. The supposed main value add of Classes and the like vary insignificantly from ivy league to community colleges which are far better in cost and sometimes in quality. So why should we punish the elite from simply treating and showing universities for what they truly are?

gap

[fluffernutter]

And they wonder why the wealth gap is widening.

Not just education, a 10% cut to Medicare

[rsilvergun]

I'm surprised that wasn't bigger news. That wouldn't affect just the poor, that'd hit the old geezers who watch Fox News too.

College is THE way to get ahead no matter the cost

[bferrell]

Look at all the student loans.

This is a surprise somehow?

It was an ambitious fraud ring

[Nova Express]

Nationwide at a number of colleges, though the FBI said that none of the colleges themselves knew of the scheme. Of course, it brings up a number of questions:

1. What good does it do to get your spawn into an elite college if they're not good enough and they'll just fail out?
2. Why not go the time-honored fraud route of just pretending your offspring is a minority?

Re:It was an ambitious fraud ring

[jeff4747]

What good does it do to get your spawn into an elite college if they're not good enough and they'll just fail out?

It's actually quite challenging to fail out of an elite college. You really have to work at it. The school will also offer all sorts of tutoring and help if you're just not quite as smart.

The goal is to have the brand name on your resume. The "Degree" line on your resume is going to look the same if you got a 2.0 or a 4.0. Plus you're going to meet some really rich and/or smart people there, which will open a lot of doors for you.

Why not go the time-honored fraud route of just pretending your offspring is a minority?

Because there's plenty of other people combing over their family history. It's not a guaranteed way in anymore.

Re:It was an ambitious fraud ring

[DarkOx]

1. What good does it do to get your spawn into an elite college if they're not good enough and they'll just fail out?

Because they probably won't fail out. Do you really think its that much harder to get thru HBS than it is to get a MBA at say AZ State? It might be a little but probably not make or break for most folks. The better schools don't want to have lots of drops outs either, that looks bad too so they have fancy tutoring programs or its already be shown in some cases they just strait up resort to grade inflation. So if anything they might have less chance of failing out. Also consider there are probably fewer 'distractions' and traps to fall into at those places than some big state school campus.

The value of those fancy school is 1) Name recognition 2) The friends monied and politically connected friends you get the opportunity to make. While the quality of the education is undoubtedly pretty good, its probably not all that much better than what you can get at any private college and not even that far above the public ones.

Go Fake Athlete, GO!

[geekmux]

Singer helped parents take staged photographs of their children engaged in particular sports...sometimes Photoshopping the face of the child onto the picture of the athlete" and submitting it to desirable schools.

I can't believe parents were actually this stupid. If you're playing sports at the collegiate level, it's because you're actually fucking good at it. The world knows this.

Exactly how long did stupid celebrities think they were going to get away with pimping their fake elite athletes?

I wish this would have all blown up on a playing field somewhere. Would have made for great social media watching some spoiled little shit get called out and shown the door for going along with their parents idiotic ideas.

Re:Go Fake Athlete, GO!

[Nidi62]

Singer helped parents take staged photographs of their children engaged in particular sports...sometimes Photoshopping the face of the child onto the picture of the athlete" and submitting it to desirable schools.

I can't believe parents were actually this stupid. If you're playing sports at the collegiate level, it's because you're actually fucking good at it. The world knows this.

Exactly how long did stupid celebrities think they were going to get away with pimping their fake elite athletes?

I wish this would have all blown up on a playing field somewhere. Would have made for great social media watching some spoiled little shit get called out and shown the door for going along with their parents idiotic ideas.

The coaches were in on it. The kids weren't actually getting recruited by the team, but the coach said the were to get them preferential admission.

Re:Go Fake Athlete, GO!

[XXongo]

... If you're playing sports at the collegiate level, it's because you're actually fucking good at it. The world knows this. Exactly how long did stupid celebrities think they were going to get away with pimping their fake elite athletes?

The coaches were in on it. The kids weren't actually getting recruited by the team, but the coach said the were to get them preferential admission.

Exactly. They weren't getting athletic scholarships, they were just getting an endorsement from the head coach that they were "prospects" for the team. That bumps them up the admission scale.

Once they're admitted, they don't have to join the team. Nobody will even know that they were labelled a prospect; that's all in the confidential admissions paperwork.

Re:Go Fake Athlete, GO!

[terrycarlino]

I've got to wonder how they got away with it. In most sports there is a strict limit to how many slots the coach has available for a team, etc.

How could other people at the schools not notice that some student that the coach talked up to the admission office never showed up on the team? At some schools athletes have special dorms, get special tutors, even special meals. A lot of people are involved in that. How was this not noticed?

Talk about cheap parents

[BLToday]

Mr. Burns: I see. Well, I- ...Oh, that reminds me, it is time for your annual contribution. How much should I give?

Male Admissions Officer: Well frankly, test scores like Larry's would merit a very generous donation. A score of 400 would require new football uniforms. 300 would require a new dormitory. And in Larry's case? We'd need an international airport.

Female Admissions Officer: Yale could use an international airport, Mr. Burns.

Mr. Burns: Are you mad?! I am not made of airports! Get out!

Re:Talk about cheap parents

[sexconker]

To be fair, he spelled "Yale" with a six.

Re:Hasn't anyone ever heard of a "Legacy"?

[judoguy]

The correct response to this is to end tuition and just let anyone who passes their exams go to college. It would cost $80 billion a year. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the value of a well educated populace.

Yeah, OPM is always just a drop in the bucket.

Re:Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[TomR teh Pirate]

*lie, not lay

sonic waves this morning, scandals this afternoon

[epine]

This morning sonic waves had mass, this afternoon scandals have mass.

Confusing world.

Athlete's what?

[Herkum01]

I figured that the parents would be smart enough to realize that the school you get into does not help your future career. They already have all these advantages, is going to Stanford really going to open more doors than being the child of someone of wealth or a star?

If they wanted too, they could get their kids the best teachers or coaches who could excel in either education or sports; to cheat like this? They set a horrible standard of privilege for their children to follow.

Re:Athlete's what?

[Whorhay]

Parents are known for going to extremes to give their progeny all of the advantages they can. A fancy and exclusive university name is an advantage with weight. The far bigger value though is in spending 4 years or more getting to know lots of other people who come from rich and or politically powerful families. Sure sometimes business is all about being cut throat and going with the most economical options, but sometimes their is gravy to be had and why not let your old college buddy help you spoon some of it off? Almost everyone that is rich and famous that you've ever heard of is in the position because in addition to whatever brilliant idea and hard work they did, they knew someone that enabled them to take advantage of it.

Re:Athlete's what?

[ErichTheRed]

> I figured that the parents would be smart enough to realize that the school you get into does not help your future career. They already have all these advantages, is going to Stanford really going to open more doors than being the child of someone of wealth or a star?

Yes. Going to Stanford means you're hanging out with the kids of tech industry titans. Going to an Ivy League school puts you in the realm of "old money" families and the Wall Street crowd. It's all about association and who you can get yourself connected with. This is why an elite school admission is worth millions...the ROI is way more. If you happen to get in, don't have a scholarship and need loans, this is the only time I'd advocate taking as many loans as you need...you'll make it back in a couple of years of management consulting, investment banking or running a Second Dotcom Bubble AI-powered blockchain-enabled subscription box service.

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because no Conservative or Republican was ever a famous actor that went into politics, say as Governor. I can barely name three off the top of my head...
Reagan, Schwarzenegger, Ventura...

If the Republicans had any candidates under fifty there might be more.

Re:Hasn't anyone ever heard of a "Legacy"?

[cascadingstylesheet]

Without a strong economy backed by college educated kids you're not gonna get the return on investment you need.

Yeah, the economy is really going to suffer if Muffy can't afford her gender studies degree.

I don't think the ROI on this is quite as clear cut as you might think.

Re:Hasn't anyone ever heard of a "Legacy"?

[cmdr_klarg]

Since when do The Powers That Be want to have a "well educated populace"?

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[XXongo]

Can you find any Republicans in the group arrested today? Nope. All card-carrying Leftists.

Since the summary didn't list any names except the photogenic actresses, I'm not sure how you know if they were Republicans or Democrats. The actual article names names (scroll down to the bottom for the list), and they're mostly athletic coaches and rich businessmen. I don't know their politics, but in my experience, athletic coaches and rich businessmen both tend toward the right.

Re:Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[XXongo]

The usual approach for an anonymous coward: make shit up and state it as a fact.

No, they weren't "all democrats".

Re:Hasn't anyone ever heard of a "Legacy"?

[DarkOx]

. It would cost $80 billion a year. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the value of a well educated populace.

Our primary and secondary education systems should be meeting the objectives of having a well educated population. That is why we have them. If they are failing at that, we need to fix that problem.

The goal of universities really should be offering that something extra to the best of the best and advancing the state of the art in science/philosophy/art etc. The fact that I can't trust someone without BS knows basic algebra is the problem. They answer is not sending everyone to college.

A million or more [Re:Unacceptable]

[XXongo]

What ever happened to getting your kid into college the good old fashioned way? Donating enough money to get a building named after you and guaranteed admission to any descendants.

According to TFA, most of these parents paid the consultant $250k to $450k.
...

Read the actual article. The people accepting the bribes got maybe 350 K to 450K. The people arranging the bribes got a lot more.

Exempli gratia:
"In another example, Lelling said former Yale women's soccer coach Rudy Meredith took $400,000 to designate a potential student as a recruit for the team — boosting the student's admission prospects — despite knowing that the student didn't play the sport competitively.Once the student was accepted to Yale, her relatives paid Singer approximately $1.2 million, including a $900,000 to one of KWF's charitable accounts, according to court documents."

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[mcl630]

2 out of 50 were "Hollywood elites".

Gender studies degrees are cheap

[rsilvergun]

you get them at public Uni or, more likely, community college. And there's damn few of them. As an added bonus Muffy is a little less stupid as a result. At the very least she had to take some basic writing and history courses and learned a little critical thinking. Yeah, she's probably still pretty dense (she did get a Gender studies degree after all) but trust me, she was worse going in then coming out.

That leaves hundreds of thousands of Nurses, Doctors, Accountants, Engineers, MBAs and Architects putting money in your 401k by growing the economy.

To be blunt, ROI's only a problem if you're willing to give all that up to stiggit to the libs by denying the occasional middle class brat their useless degree.

Re:Gender studies degrees are cheap

[HornWumpus]

No. _More_ stupid after a * studies degree.

There is a cost to spending 4 years in an incorrect echo chamber. They internalize nonsense.

During the cold war

[rsilvergun]

when they needed us they did. Now that they've got H1-Bs? Not so much.

That's why you don't ask them. Vote. Vote in your primary elections. Vote for left leaning candidates. Stop listening to mainstream media like CNN and MSNBC (both establishment outlets). We really are a democracy, but in order for that to work we've got to all agree that nobody gets left behind. Otherwise we split into classes and races and sub-groups and fight among ourselves while the wealthy take all our stuff.

Re:During the cold war

[NormalVisual]

Otherwise we split into classes and races and sub-groups and fight among ourselves while the wealthy take all our stuff.

"Divide and conquer" worked thousands of years ago, and still works today.

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[HornWumpus]

Ventura?

If he was ever an R, he was a Minnesota R, which is a D anywhere else.

endowment

[Shotgun]

Wasn't this previously called "an endowment"? Why is it illegal now?

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[drew_kime]

And yes, the vast majority of today's wealthy are in fact leftist.

HAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!! Oh man, that was a good one.

Re:Hasn't anyone ever heard of a "Legacy"?

[bussdriver]

$10,615 USA average for public school per student/year.
51 million students in public school in USA.
= $541 billion per year.

Remember, high school used to be optional (kind of still is) and before that it was not free. Progress made high school necessary and it became free; it also kept nations from dropping to 3rd world status.... In the future college is going to be needed as low education jobs continue to be outsourced to near slave labor or to mechanical slaves (aka robotnic.)

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[Shotgun]

He was Libertarian.

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[HornWumpus]

He ran for governor as a Lib. I don't know that he was never an R.

How dare they take crew spots!

[WillAffleckUW]

Seriously, that explains why so many Ivy League crews are so bad.

Re:Hasn't anyone ever heard of a "Legacy"?

[Major Blud]

Maybe it's because the funding cuts have gotten so bad that people are angry at the special privileges given to wealthy and well connected.

Except in this case, the colleges didn't see any of that bribe money.....It went to the ones running the scam.

The correct response to this is to end tuition and just let anyone who passes their exams go to college

This scam was implemented because these people couldn't pass the exams.

Why are kids not at fault too?

[SuperKendall]

The article I read said the kids were not being charged, and that "none of them knew".

How does someone take a test for you and you not know? How does an application get sent in for you with pictures of you in the rowing club, and you have no idea?

I'm not saying the kids should be charged for the sin of the parents... but I am saying you cannot reasonably claim they did not know.

Re:Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[ISayWeOnlyToBePolite]

Robert Zangrillo is a republican https://voterrecords.com/voter... (I only googled the one as that's all I need to prove you wrong, try again).

They really do think they are better.

[rickb928]

Look and learn. They really do believe they are not merely 'better', but more deserving, and merely paying a bit of money to ensure their offspring have the advantages yours will not, and will not because they take them from yours, doesn't bother them a bit.

And all this for the 'right' school. Do you doubt they expect their offspring to graduate, likely with honors, no matter the cost of that?

And, if you're paying attention, that they consider your offspring not merely unentitled, but undeserving of even a fair chance, should tell you they care not a bit for your, your offspring, your anything.

They've set the standard of unmerited privilege long ago. They are more enlightened than you, more talented, more important, more caring, thoughtful, and gosh darn it, they are just better than you. Better.

And they should be in charge, in power, because they are just better than you, and the rest of you.

Remember this. Their attitude pervades every part of their lives, and impacts every part of yours.

Mind Blowing (Not Surprised Though)

[TheHawke]

And here I thought the student admissions scandal in 2009-2010 was nasty.

This flat out blows it away. They don't say how long it's been going on, but I'll wager it's been for a LONG time...

yale could use an international airport!

[Joe_Dragon]

        Mr. Burns: Something is not right about Larry's upbringing. Send for the boys of Yale at once!
        [Burns' office. Two admissions officers from Yale are by his desk.]
        Mr. Burns: Well, how did the interview go?
        Male Admissions Officer: Larry made light of my weight, then suggested my motto ought to be "Semper Fudge". Afterwards he told me to "relax" and "forget about it".
        Mr. Burns: OK, OK. How were his test scores?
        Female Admissions Officer: Let me put it this way. Larry spelled Yale with a 6.
        [Mr. Burns, in a not-to-subtle moves, opens his checkbook.]
        Mr. Burns: Oh, I almost forgot, it is time for your annual contribution. How much should I give?
        Male Admissions Officer: Let us see. A score of 400 would require new football uniforms. A score of 300 would require a new dormitory.
        Mr. Burns: And in Larry's case?
        Male Admissions Officer: A new international airport.
        Female Admissions Officer: Yale could use an international airport, Mr. Burns.
        Mr. Burns: Blast you! I am not made of airports! Get out!

Is it just me?

[ilsaloving]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the US is mirroring the pre-fall Roman Empire more and more?

Soon people will be paying bribes to companies to get their children employed there, if that hasn't started happening already.

the past Universities was for rich kids. Trades fo

[Joe_Dragon]

the past Universities was to give rich kids something to do. Trades for others.

Now days trades are demonized and Universities is the place for banks to lock you into big loans.

Exclusive U.

[evil_aaronm]

Why hasn't someone started a college where the course work is made up and the points don't count? The whole experience is just a badge of exclusivity. It seems that's what rich parents want, anyway. Maybe throw in a shitty football team so the kids can party and tail gate on the weekends. Make it so that no federal or state money is accepted so kids get in based exclusively on how much parents pledge. The top 100 pledges get in: SAT scores and aptitude be damned. If that's what rich parents want, someone should provide it. Market forces, right?

You don't seem to understand how college works

[rsilvergun]

she'll spend 2 years in that echo chamber. The first 2 years of college is Gen-Ed.

Re:You don't seem to understand how college works

[HornWumpus]

Not the same 'gen-ed' for everyone, and it's generally 2 years of curricula, not the 'first two'.

You can bet the * studies degree gets the math and science free version. At least half of college grads are innumerate at graduation.

Not everyone goes to college

[rsilvergun]

even if it's free. Other countries have no problem making college tuition free. NY just did it too. As for cost, see here.

Re:Not everyone goes to college

[HornWumpus]

In Germany, tuition is generally free. But one bad semester and bouncing down the stairs you will find yourself. Also a large fraction is routed into apprenticeships, starting at age 14. High stakes testing. Teaching to tests etc etc.

The problem is 'college for everyone' plus 'free college' just can't work. College isn't 'for everyone', much less is it 'for everyone at age 18'.

Comes Around Again

[JimSadler]

In the 1950s and 1960s we had several students in my school that had either enormous wealth or power or both. A teacher would be out of his blooming mind to not make certain these kids had really high grades as power and a telephone call could surely end a teacher's employment. I have no way to know if any contact or incentives between teachers and wealthy parents. I believe the system is such that things can happen without anyone ever speaking a word. I do know that our high school football team had one pro player as he tried to recruit me with mention of apartments and cars etc.. He was 21 years old.

Re:Comes Around Again

[mjwx]

In the 1950s and 1960s we had several students in my school that had either enormous wealth or power or both. A teacher would be out of his blooming mind to not make certain these kids had really high grades as power and a telephone call could surely end a teacher's employment. I have no way to know if any contact or incentives between teachers and wealthy parents. I believe the system is such that things can happen without anyone ever speaking a word. I do know that our high school football team had one pro player as he tried to recruit me with mention of apartments and cars etc.. He was 21 years old.

What do you mean "comes round again"... It's always been this way. We just stopped caring in the 70's, 80's and 90's because of that whole "greed is good" bollocks. We're beginning to care now because we're starting to realise just how much the middle class is being squeezed now the economy isn't good.

There's an old joke about an oil Sheikh who sends his son to study at Oxford. His son writes to his father to thank him for the new Ferrari, saying all the other students arrived by train. The Sheikh writes back "Son, do not disgrace the family, go and buy a train".

Proof you're paying for access

[ErichTheRed]

I graduated over 20 years ago from a state school. My parents weren't wealthy enough to buy my way into an Ivy League school. I turned out OK, but the fact is that my path could have been a whole lot easier if I had been able to even think about applying to places like this. Once you make it in, that club will never let you fail...the hard part is making it in.

People wonder why these places are $60K+ a year, and accept less than 5% of applicants. It's because getting into one of these schools is a one-way ticket to Easy Street. You get to hobnob with the rich and powerful, they might fund your business ideas, and if you're not an entrepreneur there's a whole class of high-paying jobs open to you too. I live near NYC and investment banks recruit exclusively from the Ivy League for their most prestigious associate positions. My kids are smart but they're not full-scholarship-to-Harvard smart, or athletic enough for a sports scholarship, and I can't pay millions to an admissions broker...so they'll have to suck it up and find a job like the rest of us do instead of having it handed to them.

I always thought wealthy parents just paid millions directly to the school to help build a building in order to secure admissions spots. Is it now so competitive that they have to go to a middleman with connections, and donations aren't enough? It's too bad...these rich parents' kids are taking spots that could otherwise go to someone who would actually use the education for something other than a stepping stone to McKinsey and Company and executive boards.

Re:Proof you're paying for access

[bluegutang]

An Ivy League degree is not a one-way ticket to Easy Street. Investment banks only take Ivy Leaguers with extremely high grades, not any random Ivy Leaguer. Same with elite law schools. And once you're in the investment bank or law firm, you generally have to work extremely long hours. Similarly, if your Ivy League connections allow you to begin a tech startup, you're in the same position of all new businesses which usually require long hours for a chance at success.

The vast majority of Ivy Leaguers end up working normal upper middle class jobs, like doctor or computer programmer. They make a good living, but aren't "rich", and often have to work very hard.

TL;DR to get rich you need connections (which the Ivy League helps with) AND talent/hard work.

Re:Proof you're paying for access

[Alan R Light]

If you want the talented students to have the connections to funding that they need, you have to let in the children of wealthy people so they can meet each other. Of course, the issue in this case is that these parents were wealthy, but not wealthy enough, and they did not go through the proper channels.

Re: Teachable moment for fraudsters.

[chuckugly]

They mostly hail from 'blue states', but I doubt it's 100% in any case.

Re:*facepalm*

[HornWumpus]

From a dinky, high revving V8?

Have you?

Perhaps you think I'm the one arguing for the 308 not sucking.

Sure it can

[rsilvergun]

have you been keeping up with trends in automation? We better think of something to do with all these superfluous people or you're gonna have riots. A gated community won't be enough, you'll need to be wealthy enough to afford private security. Or willing to submit to a military Junta. Are you either of those things? If not college for all is a damn fine idea.

As for paying for it, our problem isn't money, it's distribution. Here's a much more humorous explanation of the problem.

I should add

[rsilvergun]

the only thing propping up our economy right now is a phony "gig" workforce who's effectively mortgaging the resources (cars mostly) they obtained when they had better jobs. Those cars are starting to break down. Meanwhile the gig economy is paying less and less in preparation for IPOs. The whole thing is going to come crashing down soon unless we take positive action, like the "Green" New Deal (which is just a federal jobs program, hence the "New Deal" in the name).

Once again, here's a much better explanation of the problem then I could ever give. Watch the whole thing or it won't make sense. It's worth it.

No, it is not

[rsilvergun]

and I wish this pernicious lie would just go away already. Here is a well researched article showing that fancy dorms and loans are not the cause of sky rocketing out of pocket tuition.

My kid is in college right now. She barely made it into her 300 level courses. There were 400+ qualified applicants (GPA 3.8 or higher) and 200 slots. They did interviews, weighted extra curricular activities, sports and also how likely the kid was to finish the program (yes, available support factored into that, e.g. if your parents could afford to pay your way you're more likely to get a spot).

If it was just a matter of soaking up money they'd do what any business does when there's more demand than supply: Raise the price until supply == demand. They did not do that, because they are teachers, and they want to teach.

Shaming, yes, but...

[pruneau]

And of course, they had to post the pictures of the actress. Because shaming mens is so old-fashioned

US ivy league is a sharade anyway.

[Qbertino]

US icy league is big business, not much more. Lots of marketing and wing flapping. Yeah, they've got innovations and their cool in the hardcore sciences - for super-nerds that get asked on.

Anyone else I'd recommend to see steer clear. Germany tried aping US ivy league some years back. It was/is bullshit. We've got 300+ perfect universities all for free. That's where I would go if I were in the US right now. Abroad, to some country where college is free for all and I get to learn a new language and a new culture.

My 2 cents.

Instead of giving the wealthy special privileges

[rsilvergun]

why not just properly fund our schools with the tax dollars from those ultra wealthy citizens?

I'm kind of sick and tired of having to go begging to the rich every time we want nice things for the public at large.

You won't get the rich doing hard time

[rsilvergun]

it doesn't work like that. Instead, tax them and use the tax dollars to build a society worth living in.

Don't focus on hurting them, focus on uplifting yourself.

Depends on the University

[rsilvergun]

MIT is elite and does just fine for itself thank you. Yeah, Harvard/Yale are full of putzes, but they do some good work here and there.

Like I said elsewhere, tax the rich and fund the schools. Then I couldn't care less if they form phony elite schools. I care about my kid's education, not what some rich prick gets. And I don't care about "fair" as long as me and mine are taken care of (and being a lefty "me and mine" means the working class)

It ends in 2020

[rsilvergun]

when Bernie Sanders gets elected. Don't forget to vote in your primary.

Mod Parent Up

[rsilvergun]

see here for more.

Yes, I am worried about a 1.5% cut

[rsilvergun]

because the GOP has been cutting every chance they get since the 90s. They didn't do the cuts all at once, you know. It would be too obvious if tuition went from $1700/yr (what it was when I went) to $16,000/yr (what I just paid for my kid, well what I _borrowed_ to pay for her since I never did recover from the 2008 crash).

When Parents Stop Raising Monster Brats . . .

[Gnostic Teflon]

When parents stop raising monster brats who are taught to believe they're the best, and then run up against ACTs, SATs, College Entrance tests, their lousy high school academic records (it's hard to be a shameless hedonist and an outstanding academic at the same time), this will cease to be a problem. When overrich parents stop needing to constantly bail out their precious dearies of problems with the law that would put other kids in prison for long stretches of time, this will cease to be a problem. BwaaaHaaaHaaah . . .

Re: Why Care About Corruption?

[jcr]

why worry about further degredation in education.

Dude, that ship has sailed. The Marxists basically destroyed education outside of STEM by the early 90s.

-jcr