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YALD (Yep, Another Linux Distribution)
Evgeny Zemlerub wrote in
about eIT's easyLinux®
which sports a complete GUI-based installation; automatic
hardware-detection; NLS (National Language Support);
claims easy choice of VGA-Card and monitor adjustment;
KDE support; Registry support, etc. They still need to finish
translating their web-site though...
You know that sooner or later this was going to happen. It looks nice, wonder how well it will deal with pci devices?
Who's packaging system does it use?
Will it be a mix of commercial and free software?
Is the registry A Good Thing(tm)? Is having one large 'dotfile' that all programs constantly access (thereby increasing the risk for corruption) better than individual dotfiles? If you want all your dotfiles in a common place, just mkdir /usr/local/registry and ln -s all your dotfiles into that dir, then maybe a 'regedit' type program can scan the dir and create a tree if that's the type of interface you want.
I'm cringing over here.
seriously, It's cool that they can candy coat the install that well, it's just kind of scary how much it looks like a Win Install.
A full spectrum of linux distributions is a good thing. You've got yer slackwares and debians for people who want to get down and dirty with the system, and you've got this thing at the other end, which (someday) you can just drop in in place of Windows.
This is the way the world should be. Multiple distributions of an OS which can cater to multiple skill levels, but it's still possible to run the same set of apps across all.
I know I'll read comments from people who flame the GUI-ness of this, but so what? Isn't it great the we can have a choice? Pick the distro that suits you.
Happy day.
... I see an opportunity for Mandrake to adapt
it to their needs.
The number of users and money that RedHat has lost due
to their stance on KDE has to be really quite
staggering. Possibly RedHat will wise up when
KDE 2.0 (or 1.3 with QT 2.0) comes out in ~8
months.
I would expect all the major distros to offer
the choice of a GUI install over the course of
this year.
i could have sworn i once installed redhat like 2.x
or something through a X GUI interface. I was just wondering what ever happened
to that concept and what was wrong with it to take
it this long for a reincarnation.
what the fuck is registry? does that mean they are gonna use a proprietary binary format to store config in, instead of /etc ???
Can one register a trademark based on a registered trademark? What does Linus have to say about this? I think I'm going to register "EasierThanEasyLinux"...
What they're saying is that they're not nearly big enough to offer decent support for 10 million users so they'd rather make business relationships with IBM, Compaq, and Dell. Let the PC companies handle the support and let Red Hat get back to improving their distribution.
All of the "businesses" they are concentrating on are VAR's. If you think "Catering to the corporate world" you should see Caldera.
> Is having one large 'dotfile' that all
> programs constantly access (thereby increasing
> the risk for corruption) better than individual
> dotfiles?
What, you think Linux can't do file locking?
You think Linux can't support a database?
The registry FUD (that is what it is!) really
deserves to die. Don't assume everyone fucks
up database access like Microsoft does.
> The number of users and money that RedHat has
> lost due to their stance on KDE has to be
> really quite staggering.
Sometimes you just have to do the Right Thing.
Red Hat has no stockholders. They are able to
take the morally correct path and/or the path
that will lead to long-term success selling
free software.
People tend to get angry when told that they
are immoral or short-sighted. People are also
generally like dumb sheep.
Why hasn't anyone done this before?
/me pukes at Red Hat's Fvwm95.
It's a joke, right?
Don't be a fool. Anyone can distribute KDE. Except for those stuck up morons at Debian of course.
I haven't yet decided if this whole registry thing and otehr stuff is good or bad. I'd like to know a)excatly what is in this registry file, b)what packaging system are they going to use, c)what other limitations might exist because of ways they are doing things? What I hope is that this can end up being a good easy to use distro for first time Linux users who know windows and want to try something else but have no Unix background at all. After they learn enough they can then graduate to a better distro. As long as it's Linux they can't screw it up too bad, if they start throwing in beta software (I saw on there something about koffice being included, isn't that still in beta?) or less than stable programs people might get the wrong idea about linux. But as long as they stick to tried and true applications and a standard Linux Kernel then hopefully it will be a good thing and help bring some soon-to-be-linux newbies into the Linux world.
Is going to take a distribution like this that has the guts to leave some things out. Namely things like standard X Apps and other ancient crap that has non-standard UIs, etc.
The apparent theory behind Redhat, etc. is to just throw everything in there that some unix longhair might want. After all, who could forget the famous Usenet pdq versus yapdq flameware of 1983. This all can be quite intimidating to a new user.
Bottom line is that the average user only needs one GUI text editor (that supports drag-n-drop, etc.), one PPP dialer, one file manager, etc. This might seem against the prevailing Linux philosophy, but nobody's stopping you from running what you want to run.
or just shoot your mouth off right away? I had the same thought at first, however I decided to read the website before making any judgements. It looks like a good thing for new linux users. I wouldn't use it, but hey I wouldn't use windows either. Not only is it text based but it looks just to hold config files (non of these goofy settings programs throw into the Windows registry or the extra fluff like program associations). Not only that but the gui editor is GPL so someone else can make a better one, or at least know what it is doing. And most impressive of all they did add a regular command that you can use at a shell to change the registry. The biggest problem I see with this is the "putting all your eggs in one basket" aspect of it.
Note that they have some stuff on their FTP site, like source to their special widgets and registry. There's a place allocated for the dist, but it hasn't been uploaded quite yet.
Living in Germany, I see that Linux is really catching on. However, I also see a very distrubing trend. People who like KDE want to make a Windows clone with Linux.
WHY????? Linux is Linux and not Windows.
I like Linux because it is different. It breaks with the "standard" makes headway in different thinking. GNOME, while being rough, is a new way of thinking.
The problem that I see with building a Windows clone is that you are constantly chasing the "Windows dream". And MS will have an easy time picking off Linux. What made Linux cool is because there was no target.
I sure hope that this trend does not continue. I also am disappointed that folks cannot be more creative than creating a "Windows clone"
And the best part is the registry. I HATE WINDOWS BECAUSE OF THE REGISTRY. Because of the STUPID registry, I learned how to be a good formatter,since a registry is a single file which cannot easily be taken apart.
For the registry JUST SAY NO!!!!!!
No, the GPL states that they may:
1) Include source with the binaries or
2) Provide source upon request via some
internet repository or other media for
up to 3 years after providing binary. However
they cannot charge a outrageous price to
obtain the source seperately.
So basically if they provided all the sources
to the GPL'd programs via ftp, they have met
the requirements.
Hmm, if the title wasn't clear I'm sort of sitting on the fence about this one....
I like the idea of a nice graphical install especially if it has help links to explain things to you as you install ( I had to bail out of a redhat install the first time cause I didn't know enough about mount points... I ran away ging yipes yipes yipes... but I can back armed and ready ).
I'm not sure I'm cool with the sources not being included, hell just add a secong CD to the distro at less than $.50 for a pressed CD on mass I dont think it would hurt them and then the sources are available but dont have to be installed...
Also there stance that KDE is the gui of choice and if you want anything else use something else...huh... trying to be easy for the user but with a Microsoft attitude of you can only do things the way we tell you you can do things. huh???
I dont have anything against KDE but I think Gnome is equally as good and is becoming better literally every day, so I would like to see them support both as the "standard" GUI's for newbie's.
I'm not extremely well versed in the functional value of a registry as compared with individual config ( dot ) files but it seems like they want to be Microsoft..... regedit?? geez where did I see that before.... give me a ascii config file anyday over that monstrosity of a registry that windows has. Now I'm sure a registry could be done better but does it really add that much value???
I hope to see the major distro come out with similar install programs because this will definately win over people in the "its too hard to install camp". I've often though of doing the same thing in terms of making my own version of redhat with a nicer gui install ( 'cept I'm no programming guru so, I didn't )....
I like the idea that a newbie can get linux up and running without having to figure out everything beforehand but I believe that they should be encouraged to actually learn about the system... why hide the command line.... if a command line is that scary to you I think you better stay inside for the rest of your life, maybe even live in a bubble too....
I'll still be using redhat, but I wonder if you could use there installer with redhat or another distro??? what about Yast can that be downloaded and used on non Suse distros??
I propose that the next new version should be called "Linux for Neaderthals". All you have to do is drag your nuckles across the ground and grunt at the voice activate installer an kaapow. everythings done for you.... in fact it'll be so good once installed it will go out and kill a deer for ya, bring it back and cook it up...
ok I'm joking... I like the gui install cause t just looks better and thus is more iviting to potential converts but maybe I got the wrong vibe from this distro but they seem to only be concered with making money not being part of the "community"... unfortuanely I think there will be more exactly like that to follow
Hey, if *some* people want to make a Windows clone on the Linux kernel, how does that hurt you? Maybe some Windows users will move over and at least their programs will be binary compatible with everyone else in the Linux world. They can also migrate to command-line tools and other GUI toolkits when they feel like it.
You have GOT to be kidding. KDE is not worth the price even as free software. GNOME isn't much better, though. As for the users/money you project them losing... RHCL outsells all other distros. They are not hurting and, I'd guess, wouldn't feel any kind of impact if they added KDE (which is likely to be in the next release anyway).
God, to think of all the time and effort that's been wasted on KDE and GNOME. It's unreal. Compaired to XFCE, KDE & GNOME almost make WinNT look good. Almost.
As for the topic of this article, I'm in favor of as many distros as are viable. The more there are the better it'll make all the rest. Compitition is good.
Joe
"When I want your opinion I'll give it to you"
I think the registry idea would be a great development if they implemented it with an LDAP backend. This would make remote administration of user workstations and accounts a breeze... (like Novell's NDS).
Puuh, and what happens if QT become the number one toolkit for programming in X ? .... This sucks. ..
....
All comercial people how wants to build X apps has to pay to Troll Tech, given them an M$ position in the Unix/Linux world
Thank god GTK+ seems to be THE toolkit of choice for Unix/Linux.
Ohh, what mama ? - yes ill start my "cvs checkout gnome" again
Which is better: Mac? DOS? Windoze? -- The argument of the past. Is the new argument which distribution to run? I hope this doesn't happen. Remember people it's still Linux. It's been a hard battle to fight other popular OS's. Let us not kill ourselves by friendly fire. Any way that Linux is being distributed is a great way!! The more Linux out there is great! That's the benefit of Linux ... we can choose which distribution we want to run. Let us concentrate on fighting billg and his army of darkness! :)
--
Ksa
Using Linux not a distribution.
Linux has a serious need for registry where system/user information can be sotred in a common location.
..../Internet Settings/ProxyServer and get the http, socks, etc configuration information. Under Linux, you have to prompt the user to enter the information because there is no standard way to get to it.
Currently I'm working on software that uses proxies. Under Win95/NT I just look at
There are a lot of other examples where it useful. dot files are just a mess if you ask me. I don't want a million of them in my home directory.
The great thing about linux is you can do it your way. YOU get to choose which distribution suits YOU, you are not forced into accepting something that you are not comfortable with.
Not all people have the time, patience or understanding to go through the more manual configuration processes. Some want to learn, but need a place to start. This presents a nice entry with a less steep learning curve (and it is the initial curve that is steep in most Linux distros, it gets easier as you go along, unlike Windows in all flavours that actually gets more difficult).
I think this is exactly the sort of thing that can get people introduced to Linux. As far as I can see, they are not stopping you manually configuring it.
You may be good with computers, but are you good a orthapedic surgery, space flight control systems, marine diesels... ??? Not everyone is so good with computers. (Hell, _many_ geeks can't even program their video recorders!!
"Hmmm. Why does a graphic GUI make installing easier than a terminal-based menu driven installation?"
.com jokes). GUI==modern in most people's mind.
It doesn't. But to an average user a text window is an anachronism. It is a symbol of the 1980s. Remember when every t-shirt having to do with computers had a funny text-mode font? We're past that now (and into the
I've really had a bad experience with MS' registry for many reasons, and despite all that has been said here, I don't see how this is going to be hugely better.
/etc sync problems.
After all this is ONE big text file we are talking about ? So what happens if the disks fails, if the application writing to it corrupts ? Actually a real database seems more fitted, although I see a memory requirement nightmare coming on, along with old
I really think some people can see a point in a registry and most of these do not realize it is a big mistake not to make again, not because Microsoft screwed it up but because it is not fail-safe. I long for the days of INI files in Windows 3.x where I could patch them myself if I ran into trouble. Imagine trying to edit the registry with a boot floppy ??? No thanks.
Linux has many "single points of failure." Try deleting your libc and see how far you get.
The reason Microsoft's registry sucks is because applications keep TOO MUCH INFORMATION there. They keep information that is only useful to a single app in the GLOBAL registry.
Rather, we should treat the global registry like programmers treat global variables. Use it SPARINGLY. Use it to communicate between applications that would not otherwise be able to find each other. Use it to replace the various global configuration files in their various syntaxes (i.e. for mapping mime types to handlers).
It might be a good idea to use XML for a registry syntax though.
> KDE is being used by millions of people today.
> Gnome? By almost no one except for Gnome devs
> and testers.
Where exactly did you get _that_ little tidbit of information from? Pray tell, you obviously have some pretty advanceed statistics collating equipment there.
> Tell me what the Win95 or Mac interface provides > that KDE does not?
Are you talking bugs or features or restrictive interfaces?
Heh, they all have proprietary toolkits, eh?
Sorry the above is cheap flame bait, but c'mon we're over this now... use whatever the hell you want to use and don't knock others for using something else. KDE and Gnome aren't mutually exclusive.
I don't think they're bandwagon jumpers.
I've read about this some time last autumn for the first time, and it looks VERY promising.
They have newly developed config tools with KDE GUI, which is exactly what new users need.
And this makes definitely clear that they consider Qt a system library, so they have no licensing problems at all even with the old Qt library (GPL system component clause).
Debian is in a different situation: Dus to the DFSG they can't consider Qt (with old license) a system library. With the QPL this should be possible.
RedHat definitely needs better install and (esp.) admin tools. It's just annoying to work with it if you know more comfortable distros like SuSE.
But I doubt that there will be considerable improvement. They're focusing on Gnome right now, and this may eat up much of their time...
hehehe this is flame bait right?
Yeh Debian developers are morons... yeh, that's it.
So tell us all what you have developed for Linux...
AndyM
FUD: Commercial development with QT too expensive
Fact: Cheap shareware is discouraged, free sw encouraged, and professional developers can get qualified support (more difficult with gtk+)
FUD: KDE must use Qt, we're locked into it
Fact: You can write KDE apps with other toolkits, it's just a question of the support libs. Examples are TCL/TK (K/TK), and Staroffice
FUD: Qt is bad for free software
Fact: Qt is much better for free sw than Gtk+, as it is more like the GPL than the LGPL, and RMS prefers the first.
You'll always have the choice, the price is just a matter of economic considerations of proprietary developers. Free sw advocats shouldn't care about them very much.
Gtk is just cheaper, but we don't have to be a charity for shareware authors!
They have different modes of installation, like
Beginners
Advanced
Professional
Maybe the screenshot are from the second or third category.
Let's hope they really have an easy 'Beginners' setup.
(I just ordered a copy to test...)
RPM is nonstandard!
You can't use common tools, not even to look at the contents (.deb is just using tar and ar). This sucks *immensly*.
I still don't know why they just take a tar.gz file and include the spec file like the BSDs do it (or combine tar and ar if you want to include patches).
And SRPMs are a pain to handle. Why don't they just ship a source tarball which allows for
make; make rpm
Thus: I wouldn't mind a better packaging system, maybe take over the BSD pkg system (a thing that Slackware should do, too)
I think the idea of a standardized registry is excellent, if you use it to store the dotfile information redundantly.
So changes in the registry would be broadcast to the system and personal dotfiles.
Applications (like e.g. linuxconf) could just implement the registry interface, and you just need a specific 'registry translator plugin' for you distro.
I really like that.
Avs
Really great news.
I always thought about the idea of a "KDE Linux", concentrating on the strenghts of an easy and powerful user interface for average winusers.
If this is as good as it promises to be, Linux is definitely ready for the masses.
Got to try it!
Gnome wants to implement "meta file information", which is nothing else than a registry. In fact it's worse than the easyLinux registry, as you can't use common cli tools for file manipulation.
The easyLinux registry is text based, so yoou should be able to edit it.
Moreover, a registry is not bad idea in itself, if done properly (unlike M)
Dear slashdot readers,
;)
;-) We decided to use the Qt-widget library for the installation dialogs, because they implemented the look and feel of Windows so its easier for linux newbies to get familiar with Linux.(IMHO I don't like the motif GUI, too). This is also the reason we specialized the distribution for KDE support and not for GNOME. (GNOME may added in future versions, but not for the first final)
;-)
/etc. So if the registry itself gets currupted, the responsible files are not affected! The registry is more like SuSE's "rc.config" file with many improved features and a GUI and shell interface. I hope this clears many dissapointed regards...
...
Here come some statements directly from eIT
Due to the "new kid on the block" article (see: Whoa!) posted on Tuesday, February 02, we received hundreds of mails in our post office this morning. This really jumbled our normal work day cycle...
First of all, we want to apologize our "Babelfish" english (see: They need someone with a better grasp of English.) on our web pages. We got some mails with better translation and will put them on the web today. Thank you for that! English is not our native language, sorry about.
Please note: easyLinux is NOT EasyLinux distributed by skygate UK - this sometimes get confused in the list. (See: if the source is available @08:56PM) These posted articles have nothing to do at all with eIT's easyLinux! ie: we did not lose any words about pricing.
Your are right when you say this distribution reaches more the commercial way, but if you want to see Linux in the wide desktop area there is no way beside. Linux is going commercial, remeber StarOffice, Oracle, Corel, etc. And the "normal" user needs such a distribution. Linus Torvalds intoduced such himself in a posting last year. Please read the postings "No, it's Linux for users @04.65AM", and "the UnLinux @08:40AM" from DaKrushr. We totaly aggree with this statements!
Now I will regard some intentions about easyLinux, after that I'll say some words about eIT's registry. Last you get some information about package-format, prices, distributors and so on.
easyLinux was developed in the hope to place it in the desktop market as an alternative OS to M$ windows.
Few words about the installation procedure: SCSI controllers are scanned. The current detection is written to disk, so if the computer hangs you can reboot and the corresponding section will be skipped. A VGA-Xserver will rise, when the real installation process with dialogs starts. easyLinux has an own GUI fdisk program for partitioning. After installing the KDE base environment the computer restarts and welcomes the user with the KDM login. After your first login, you can configure your XServer (eXs) and your host with many "eTools" or just turn to the shell and hack the config files
Now to the registry: Most senders of postings who criticize the registry have not read the registry pages well. It has nothing to do with M$ registry at all (ok - the name is the same) and the source is freely available since the library functions are under LGPL. If you change entries within the registry they call other scripts to setup ie. some config files int
Here comes the current state of easyLinux:
* early beta (official beta release: 8th of february '99)
* Kernel 2.2.1 with glibc
* XFree 3.3.3.1
* Package format: rpm
* auto hardware probing of mouse, SCSI, cdrom, networkcard
* easy configuration (GUI based) of X11, printer, fax, isdn, ppp, network, apache, sendmail, time, soundcard, PnP,
* including Netscape, gimp, egcs, perl, and a few more
(this is only for testing, the final gets many more packages)
How to obtain a beta:
Due to the high requests for a beta we unfortunately have to take a fee for shipping and cd costs. That means about $6 in Europe and $12 for other countries. Please believe, we want not to earn money with this release! Registered alpha testers will get the beta for free. Registered beta testers will get a special low cost price on the first final release. We will put a order page on our website the next days, so please do NOT send mail to beta@eIT.de anymore for requesting a copy. We limited the total beta copies to 100! If anybody could provide a fast ftp server with 300MB free space in the US we will upload a cd image with the whole beta dist...
The final version is planned at the end of march, and probably mainly distributed by Linuxland (http://www.linuxland.de) for the european market.
Or you can order it directly on our webpages.
For further questions please feel free to write us.
Thank you very much for your attention!
sincerely,
--
Bernd Schumacher
easy Information Technology
http://www.eIT.de
If this creates a fork in compatible executable binaries, it could start causing the same problems that Win32 does in requiring a specific distribution or toolkit. People are right to cautious.
Posted by jeremycrabtree:
/ bin/;generated with regedit
/home/jeremy/bin
Here is the key:
MyKey1;MySubKey1;texting123;domidi;/home/jeremy
Here is what the values correspond to (as per regedit):
Key: MyKey1
SubKey: MySuibKey1
Value: texting123
Path:
Execute: domidi
%C(creator?): generated with regedit
Looks interesting enough to me...but I can't seem to make out exactly WHAT it is used for %-/
(Also note that 'Execute' seems to be independant of 'Path', it seems to always search ~/.register/bin for the 'execute'able)
Posted by jeremycrabtree:
;), and then did a test run to see what it's output looked like.
/var/register . This directory contains the same files/directories as ~/register, plus an added file, 'config', which is (apparently) used for NLS support, and several files in the 'icons' subdirectory. (ALERT! Customization opportunity ;)
I got that from using the source of course! I downloaded it, built it (with some mild frustration...it pays to read the instructions and change the Makefile to match your system
It's interesting, it builds the CLI and X11 versions and a libreg.so so that one can write programs that use it's registry services. It really looks as though it was made to take advantage of KDE, though I'm sure GNOME could easily use it, should the developers feel the need.(1)
Some more info...
It also creates ~/.register containing
registry -- a plain text file
bin -- a directory
icons -- a directory
Neither directory contains anything, though.
The install also creates
1) I personally don't use either one, so it is of little consequence to me.
Posted by KenM:
Well, the guys did say that they welcome anyone who wants to (re)write it to link to an alternative library...
...the "Produkte" section says Alpha release, November '98, Beta release end of December '98, Final 1Q99; it doesn't make it clear which of these are projections and which have been met, but the "order" section only allows you to order the "alpha" release; so they failed to meet their December deadline by some way but didn't update the Web site to reflect it.
.rpms on them; I'd like to see a profusion of "sub-distributions" based on RedHat or Debian but with new, experimental front ends and a hand-picked selection of "preferred" packages, and if one of them installed a VGA X server for configuration stuff as an early step that might be a good idea.
So thankfully it looks like we'll never see this disastrous distribution.
I would like to see a distribution with some of those ideas, though. New distributions aren't a bad thing if you can install
--
Xenu loves you!
But maybe that's just me. Went to /pub/dist/easylinux (or whatever it was) and the directory was empty.
Don't that have to make it avaliable for download?
Their 'eregistry' program is GPL, acoording to the readme in the tarball.
Try: `/usr/games/fortune -s`
Stop kidding yourself. Most people who are interested in pushing KDE most likely weren't using RedHat to begin with. As for a GUI install, didn't RedHat try that once and got rid of it? You are going to see the same thing happen with this dist also once the GUI start crashing on different video cards.
They want you to pay half of the release price to get the alpha, and no where do I see a ftp site for free downloads like Red Hat, et al.
It looks like a windows install, it has a "registry" and they want you to PAY to debug it for them. This looks like one of many people that want to take Linux, make money from it and contribute nothing back.
If I am wrong with what I think I am reading, flame away. But if this is the way these people want to do business with OUR OS, I think we should squash them now. No matter how "pretty" their install program is, it isn't worth having people out there doing Linux business this way.
Hmmm. I take it you haven't seen a recent xscreensaver release? Amongst other things, it comes with bsod, which is a rather fantastic emulation of the fabled um, BSOD. It's got Windows, Amiga, Mac modes, and so on -- groovy.
--
W.A.S.T.E.
W.A.S.T.E.
This is quite convenient, since I don't have to meddle with config files and startup scripts everytime I want to change a little setting.
Regards, Jochen
Regards, Geewiz
You probably installed Pacific High-Tech's version of RedHat Linux a while back. I had 3.0.2 and it had an X install option. Kinda cool.
It's called /etc. :-)
/etc. )
(ok, ok, that's not exactly what you meant. But all my config files can be found under
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Seems this distribution wants to do away with most of Linux's advantages--flexibility, openness, choice. It tries to hide the command line, and only their "selected" applications will be supported. It tries to cover Linux's internals up by doing everything for the user. But it adds a registry. Hmm.... It tries to turn Linux into a Windows clone.
The problem is that distributions like this further move away from the common form of Linux. It is as if they are trying to create another OS. For example, do these people believe free software authors will depend on that registry for their programs? Or they will rather support Red Hat and SUSE rather than this strange distribution?
Probably most people will stay away from this distribution.
Free Software: the software by the people, of the people and for the people. Develop! Share! Enhance! Enjoy!
That isn't a bad idea. MacOS has done something very similar to that one for years; I'm rather surprised Windoze didn't use it too. The Windows Registry is little more than a giant kludge ("giant" most definitely being the operative word). But then, so is most of the rest of the OS...
Most of the icons you see in the screenshots there are from OS/2...if anyone cares. :-)
I like these guys with their new distribution. They are trying to cater to the Windows crowd, which is a Good Thing (tm) in my book. Their goods do look frighteningly like Windoze, but you can easily forgive them when you remember, "Hey, that's their audience." The folk behind easyLinux really seem to get it, even if their English could use some work.
----
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
It's nice that they have their page in multiple languages, but their English wasn't too much of an improvement over Babelfish.
From the looks of things, they aren't very concerned with things like the "Linux community". I see no words regarding licensing, or history. I don't expect that this will go very far, but I wish them luck.
--Lenny
Hmmm. Why does a graphic GUI make installing easier than a terminal-based menu driven installation? I've been sticking to SuSE for 2 years now and everyone who has been looking over my shoulders will tell you that installation looks far more easier than installation of e.g. Windows NT.
From my point of view, terminal based installs have nothing but advantages over graphical GUIs. They're fast, they're fail safe, they're compatible. Oh, they are indeed less pretty, but nobody, not even end users would complain about that if they got a possibility to use it.
Flame me if I'm wrong, but I thought the GPL states that the source MUST be included with any binaries you distribute. They say they are only supplying "important" sources, all others you must either pay extra for or download them off of FTP. As far as I'm concerned, this is a violation of the GPL. Losers...
I've tried most of the mainstream distributions (RedHat, SuSE, Caldera, Debian) and found something of value in the differences of all of them. A new distribution ( perhaps one aimed at the first-time user ) can open up the market some.
Most people who use Linux for the first time mainly want to use the internet ( reasonable, that's also where they'll get their best information regarding Linux ). Debian 2.0 nicely sets up your PPP connection for you, but other parts of the install are quite daunting for the raw newbie.
A distribuition that installs PPP like Debian, sets up video/X like RedHat, and has a nice, easy to follow config tool like SuSE's Yast would ( I'm sure ) find a fast following.
My $.02
The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
Provided they make the source to their Qt based apps freely available, they don't need to pay Troll a thing for their use and redistribution of Qt. For example, Debian is not giving any money to Troll to be able to put Qt on its FTP site, that's for sure.
Contarary to popular belief, Troll Tech is not made up of a bunch of ruthless Bill Gates wannabes.
noah
It's on the website... follow the links at the bottom of the Registry page.
I'd like to point out it appears they want all apps to switch to using the "Registry." Here we go, fix it all up for the "Gee, it's not like MS" NT users. Damnit. This will either fall flat on it's face, or take my affordable UNIX-like system away. Personally, I don't like this. Not because it's easy, but because it BREAKS STANDARDS. I'm all for the easy part.
I just wish people didn't think Windows and easy as synonymous.
in some article before, some guy complained that RH required 8mb, i hope he don't see that this one requires 16mb...
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
Those calling Red Hat "MS Linux" better appologize right now. Theres a new kid on the block -- complete with registry.
I hope all the registry keys are kept in a common directory like /etc/sysconfig. It'd be basically the same thing we have now, if it works.
I'm really wondering about their packaging system. I wish the website said if they're using RPM or some new nonstandard system. Something nonstandard would suck major ass.
A couple points spring to mind...
* Did they pay Troll Tech for the right to distribute Qt (which is required for KDE)? If not this could turn ugly very quickly.
* What's wrong with an easy installation? Do not come down on people if they have a "windows-like" installation -- you have Slackware if you want to do it non-graphically and have a lot of choice. Remember, variety doesn't just apply to installation procedures, it applies to Linux distributions and (gasp) people too.
Give these guys a fuckin break.
Nothing worth doing is worth doing today.
Those sure are pretty config tools they've got there, but they don't look one bit "easier" or "friendlier" than Red Hat's less-glamorous, but clean and clear color textmode installation.
I think their interface approach is a nice one, but it looks to me like it will still only address the technical market of people who know what video chipset they have and why they're partitioning drives in the first place. Seems more an equivalent to the pretty GUI installer Solaris has these days. Still no substitute for knowing some pretty gritty hardware details.
No, to have a consumer, home-user Linux installer, this has to become a wizard that walks you through everything, with nice blobby general options and sensible defaults based on the hardware autodetection. These choices and options and the notion of "total control" have to be hidden behind an "Advanced Settings" button.
Fact is, in today's world of gigantic drives, you can come up with one fixed scheme per, say, each popular drive size, that will leave 99% of consumers perfectly happy. Requiring people to think hard about mount points is a nice educational goal, but not a battle that should be fought as part of a user's first 10 minutes of the Linux experience.
I'm sure all the major non-techie distribs will soon have something that combines this kind of Qt or GTK+ GUI with some soothing consumer-oriented wizards as a "novice" install otipon soon enough.
Actually it is my understanding that Red Hat 6.0 will have an improved interface for install routines...anyone else hear about this???
Nick
LSG
I know most people who use Linux
;-)
now won't want this.
But I know a LOT of people who
would think about trying this
who cursed Linux as a tool of
the devil.
(Hey--in their defense--it does have daemons)
This just opens Linux up to a
whole new market of people.
That is always good.
I know I would have moved to
Linux a lot sooner if there
was something like this when
I was first looking at it.
~enucite~
I'm running KDE 1.1 beta2 on my RedHat 5.2 box without incident. I think it's a great gui. I don't understand RH's insitance on using Gnome, but hey, whatever.
BTW there's links to RH rpm's on the kde.org site for whoever wants to try it.
-=nft=-
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -Gandhi
The type of person their catering to is the guy that has a surface knowledge of computers and keeps reading in his Ziff-Davis magazines that Linux is the wave of the future. Problem is, this guy is also the same guy that goes out and buys all the latest hardware the minute it's released; what happens when he gets his new Voodoo Banshee home and realizes (without reading the fine print) that X isn't going to work with his new toy without some major tweaking. Let's see how easy it is to install then.
"Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."
They don't give the source code.. they only give binaries, and you can download or pay for the source code.. isn't that a violation of the GNU liscense?
Only 'flamers' flame!
The registry is text based, so it should be better than windows. Also, I am sure your system will still have all the individual(sp?) /etc/* and dotfiles. Also, it's settings aren't cryptic like HKEY_SYSTEM_LOCAL_UGG, key, binary jive.
Just from the screenshot (which isn't a very fair method to judge something like this), I'd say it doesn't do much more than the GNOME or KDE control-centers already do.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
That's nice. And how do you let a user keep the same settings between different machines if their config data is all in a central registry?
For every unix box I log in on at work, my environment reflects my preferences. On NT my environment reflects the preferences of whoever uses the box the most, so basically I can't use any NT box but the one on my desk.
User profiles are per machine, as far as I know.
That's exactly the problem. My Unix settings port with no effort, my Windows settings have to be set up anew on each machine.
How is putting user configuration files in ~/etc different to putting them in ~ with a dot as the first character?
So you think that redhat has no interest in GUI. Is that why they wrote GUI admin tools, and are now helping out with the GNOME project in the form of programmers and documentation writers?
And what is wrong with the price? Last I checked you could get the whole distribution free off your local mirror.
Hey, a friend of mine wants to write a distribution called dubian, because everybody should roll their own:) If I make my own distribution, I am going to color it purple, and the install will autodetect your personality, needs, wishes, and future. It will be unique, in that it will be like every other distribution out there:( My distribution will develope a cult following, and this group of followers will diss your distribution because it sucks! Quick, order my distribution today, It will ship first quarter of of some year in the near future. Replicating other peoples work, instead of improving on it, will be the moto for my distribution. My distributions web page will be http://www.redundant.redundant.doingthesamething_o ver_again.waste_of_effort.whyareyoustill readingthis.willthiseverend.probablynot.yetanother distro.arewedoneyet.ohlord_here_we_go_ag ain.com.net.org.tx.usa.enough_already
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
I'll just duplicate the current efforts in progress:)
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
Well, of course it will be "Free", but my download site will be served by a single 1200 baud modem that is on only ten minutes per day. The package will cost 129.00 to buy, but it will come with all sorts of proprietary installation utils, and non standard code.
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
The issue with the registry is that it is a single point of failure. On windows, if a programm can't access the registry, it can't find its dll's and it has lost the equivalent of its environment variables. Having a registry as MS impliments it, is a bad idea all around. As for Red Hat, the RPM database is not a registry. Applications don't access the database during run time. It is a reference point for install time, and even if it gets corrupted, it can be easily rebuilt.
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
Technically it is not bad to have an X install. However, if your card has a buggy, or unique VGA interface, it can cause installs to be a real problem. The ncurses based install is almost guaranteed to work on all available hardware. Since Linux is intended for everything under the sun(no pun intended), it is better to have an install that you know will work, instead of one that is "sexy" Eventually, someone will build a stable X install, but the text install will probably always be the defacto standard for experienced Linux users. I imagine Red Hat and other distros will adopt an X install, as an option, within the next two release cycles.
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
How does it take away any flexibility? What's stopping your from uninstalling KDE and installing GNOME, for instance? And how many other distributions "support" other programs? None, as far as I know...
I think what they mean by "hiding the command line" is that it will start up in X, instead of starting in console mode. Of course, anyone with a bit of smarts/experience can just edit the /etc/inittab!
Turning Linux into a "Windows Clone", as you call it, is NOT necessarily bad! Is hardware auto-detection bad? RedHat's installer practically does that already!
If you don't like what this distro does, then you can just CHOOSE NOT TO USE IT! Is that so tough? :)
Having political convictions makes the Debian group stuck-up morons?
Who the hell do you think got the whole Free Software bandwagon rolling? RMS and the GNU community, the stuck-up morons who have joined forces with the Debian group to keep the spirit of Free and Open Software alive.
They don't believe in restrictive licenses, if you don't like that, get another distribution. There are plenty...