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RIAA wants to assassinate MP3
Cicero writes "Wired News has an article about the Recording Industry Association of America's (RIAA) plans for killing the mp3 format. It basically involves having the major record labels release music on a yet-to-be-defined, proprietary format called SDMI. The kicker -- require software and hardware companies that license the format to include some sort of kill switch which would prohibit the user from downloading and playing mp3 files. " I'd insert a snide comment here, but...I don't think I need to.
I suppose next we'll be handing out chastity belts to the computers so we can't download pr0n.
The majority will not allow such a thing to happen. You cant disallow a competing technology on someones computer, and expect to get away with it. Hah. Long live MP3!
with Linux? "Throw the kill switch; no more patches for you.
Seriously though, it could never work. So you stop slapping an ".mp3" extension on your files. Copy them across a lan. Not to mention that no one will want this new format. It'll just be another DVX.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
?
This will just make things worse for the record companies. It's still won't actually be illegal to use the mp3 encoding format, inventive hackers will crack whatever stupid blocks they have in the way, and mp3s will be cooler than ever. Still annoying that they think they can push this on us, though.
I still don't get this whole "MP3 Killer" thing. So what if the RIAA decides that record labels release electronic music in a protected format. What is going to stop Joe Average from buying the CD, encoding the songs in MP3 and up'ing them to the Net?
The RIAA and SDMI vs. MP3 is the same old battle as DVD vs Divx. DVD is an open format, and is winning, as is MP3.. the RIAA needs to take a rest on this..
The means are already out for making mp3's, we've already got the players and the music, and its _US_, the open-source community, that will make a successor to mp3, that will surely have better quality and compression. Mp3's are out there, there isn't anything the recording industry can do. We just won't use their format, and that's that.
I haven't seen a need to buy any of the portable mp3 players, yet, but I'm going to now.
:) )
And perhaps it's now time to start giving them as gifts. With this sort of direct manipulation, it's time for consumers to react, in an organized fasion.
Go Support the mp3 industry. Vote with your $$.
(if you have any! I know there's alot of students here!
So they're going to kill the ability to play MP3's in hardware? Hmm... interesting. Just like Sony stopped anyone from playing out-of-region games or copied games on the Playstation, eh?
How many one hit wonders later spent the rest of their lives in poverty while record company execs took vacations in St. Barts on the royalties from those songs? Oh, I feel so sorry for the stockholders in Sony Records. You MP3 bootleggers are stealing from the bands who made those records! You are bad! The MAN hasn't figured out how to own the internet, and he's getting scared.
> prevent users from downloading or playing n on-SDMI-compliant music.
.wav's too. imagine how microsoft will feel when their browser is breaking the law by allowing embedded audio. oh wait, microsoft doesn't think twice about breaking the law. i forgot.
does this mean that we'll no longer be allowed real audio feeds? wow, this is more anti-competitive than microsoft. so, this kills
Is it me, or does this reek of using of unfairly shutting out competition? Apparently, if RIAA has their way, this new format will be ALL you can use, unless they decide differently. That's like Sony saying, "If you want to have a recording of a song, you MUST use Minidiscs. End of story."(note: nothing against minidiscs)
Also, from a technical standpoint, how do they propose to do this? Release a new version of Windows that automatically searches and destroys non-RIAA music files on bootup? FTP clients that refuse to download *.mp3? I think not.
--John Riney
jwriney@awod.com
This isn't likely to be legal. Consider that it's similar to Misrocoft's exclusive licensing practices; you can use SDMI, but you can't use a competitor's format (or rather, you can use it until SDMI comes out then you must kill off your support for the competition).
:)
In other words, not the Justice Department will have something to do when they're through ripping M$ apart. It looks like the government just might be good for something after all
Please, correct me if I'm wrong ...but if it has an audio out, it can be copied. If the "kill switch" is imbedded in the music, it's hackable. Who cares what RIAA does now? It's just like MS flailing - too little too late. They're horked.
.02
My
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
...the old one-liner: "When you're in a hole,
STOP DIGGING!"
Let them do this. They will all be sent to jail and/or heavily fined for releasing a known virus into thousands of peoples computer systems.
Gee, shows how well people THINK eh?
Just to say it one more time, MP3 has already
shown itself to be the defacto standard. There
is no disputing that. Companies can release all
the different formats they want, but it is just
TOO LATE for anyone to bother using them.
Use MP3 or lose money. Thats the bottom line. Like it or leave it.
See yah, RIAA, time to die.
At the end of the first paragraph it ascribes to RIAA attitude of "...my way or the highway." Of course, I read this as "RIAA's way or the information highway."
Gee. Choose RIAA's way, or choose the way of the internet. Let me think about that...
j
I think not...(*poof*)
The world of the major labels is about to be wiped out by the mp3 supernova. When a group like TLC can sell 10 million albums, yet only be paid $250,000 EACH, and they have to file Chapter 11, there is something very very wrong with the business model.
Hate to point out the obvious to the RIAA, but purposely disabling a competing product is indeed illegal, and what MS got in loads of trouble for. MS, however, wasn't stupid enough to document their intentions :-).
Me thinks me needs a Rio now...
Considering that the only way this will work is if the 'technology companies' run out of money while fighting the suits, and considering where most of the money is these days (checked the market caps of the 'internet stocks' lately?), methinks the RIAA may be in for an unpleasant surprise. It's tough when you find out you're not the biggest kid on the block anymore.
Every good virgin snow white angel with a chastity belt can pick a lock by the end of the week. Can't stop pokin'!
Even if they did make locks and all that bull. People would crack it just for fun! Nevermind no one would never use it in the first place. These idiots don't get it...
Ahh, it's refreshing to see technology ridding the planet of a horrible evil. The record industry has had it too good for too long; They can see the end and they're trying their old tricks to put off the inevitable. I don't know who their technical consultants are, but they obviously don't have a f*cking clue what's going on.
Reasons why the RIAA is toast, or, mp3 is dead, long live mp3!
#1: It's the Recording Industry of AMERICA
Last time I checked, there were a lot of other countries, with a lot of music besides the good 'old (free?) USofA. Mp3 lets me get music that never makes it to the border in conventional format. And there's lots of coutries that have a skeptical view of american politking.
#2: Mp3 is Open. And out there. Too bad.
I have source code to players and encoders. 'Nuff said. I'll give those up when you pry them from my cold dead hands. And, any EE worth his salt could hack together a DSP mp3 player in a few weeks with little or no problems. Patents or no patents, mpeg technology is here to stay.
#3: You have to listen to the music
Unfortunately for the RIAA, you have to be able to listen to the music at some point. This is the downfall of all secure executable/information copyright enforcing schemes. At some point the information is viewable, and you can always resample it. Decks with phiber outs and pure digital signals make this an almost lossless proposition. Take your music and resample it to mp3.
Does anyone remember DIVX? If the consumer doesn't want it, then it ain't gunna happen. This is a demand economy!
"Do it, do it now kids! Stick it to the Man!" -- Duckman
A "kill switch" that would disable my ability to play mp3's? Now that seems criminal to me. My opinion is that labels that don't embrace and actually use mp3's (ala atmoic pop or good noise) as a distribution medium will fold within a decade. I mean, c'mon, remember when dat decks came out? All of the sudden recording companies were getting a cut of of sales to make up for 'lost mechanical royalties', and it didn't even make it into home use hardly at all. That sure as hell isn't the case here! Well, anyway, I won't - and I don't know anybody who would - use a technology that renders mp3 unusable. What greedy, fearful, bastards.
Ok. RIAA don't want mp3 to be used by record labels...I get that part...
But, How the hell they are going to stop me from encoding my CD's and play them in my car-office-bathroom-house?
mp3 is popular because people use it, not record labels...so why all this news about "killing mp3"???????
Please RIAA explain me this!
According to a source who attended the SDMI meeting last week, participants discovered that the Internet and music industries have precious little in common.
;^)
For the RIAA it's all about controlling(read: limiting) content and distribution channels. They still seem to think that they are in a position of authority. They aren't. In my random searches for music I have *yet* to not be able to find a particular song in MP3, and I don't even have to look on IRC.
The RIAA is setting itself up for a major failure by trying to fight the juggernaut that is consumer will. What happens when you put customers in the lowest priority? Maybe some MBAs out there can answer that one...
Even M$ with all their cash and tech. knowledge has had extreme difficulty controlling Internet formats, and the RIAA thinks, without extensive tech. experience, that it can control digital music? They are so severely out of touch with reality it's kind of scary, yet these are the folks that have controlled music for 30+ years!
I could go on, but the choir needs to get back to singin
+&x
I won't download anything that "breaks" my ability to download MP3s, so that just means I won't buy their SDMI music. Simple enough?
Also, how is this signal from the RIAA going to come? I honestly wonder what they mean by that. You have to connect to their server to play the format? By the looks of what they are suggesting, they don't understand what they are doing.
Oh well, once someone actually hits the big time because of MP3, then we will have SDMI music.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - F. Voltaire.
Hmm. what will prevent Joe Average from ripping songs off his CDs? nothing. But... if the next standard that comes out (I know this is being tossed around for DVD-audio) uses an excrypted format, then when Joe Average tries to buy the DVD and encode it, he'll just hear a bunch of garbage, because the music cannot be listened to without the key. I'm pretty sure that several companies are working on a standard for this. I know that InterTrust is working on it, because my neighbor across the street works for them. Check out their site. It might answer a few questions for you.
"The SDMI format will be open, the RIAA will not own the format."
I have gqmpeg and bladeEnc. I have made a substantial investment in the MP3 format and _am not_ going to give it up soon. The software I have now is not going to suddenly break, I can continue to use mp3 for as long as it still does what I want. I don't think people like me are going to stop ripping their CDs and sharing files with others. With a closed file format, and the threat of it breaking as some unspecified future time, I cannot see any reason why someone like me would switch to SDMI.
The upshot is that the RIAA is still under the delusion that they can dictate format to the market, when the marketplace has always dictated media choice anyway. Just another example that the RIAA is about to join fossilized remains of T Rex's in the museum of history, and the part that fossilized first is from the neck up.
oh, and then what, though? they make encoders and players illegal? big deal. they exist, they will continue to exist. the only thing the RIAA is doing is making people who LIKE blatantly ripping off RIAA member companies more pissed.... personally, if the RIAA keeps this up, i wouldn't be surprised to see an underground MP3 ripping off community (possibly growing out of the existing online communities) coming out and doing blatant stuff in retaliation.... that's just the kind of generation we are, i suppose... just my thoughts. they're not coherant (i just took my last exam for college.... EVER), but all the basic points are there. aaah.... sleep.....
i want to live life, not just go through the motions
Don't mind RIAA, they're just drunk.
The only way I can think that they could come up with the "There Can Be Only one" idea would be if:
- Everybody in the corporate foodchain is a tyrannical money monger
- Nobody with any pull in RIAA knows what the real world is like
- They're all drunk. Really.
I wonder how many of the OEM's would ``accidentally'' have buggy implementations of the RIAA's kill switch? Of course the buggyswitch would be in the hardware (probably at the RIAA's insistence), so a software upgrade wouldn't fix it. ;-)
I wouldn't be surprise if this is M$ idea, they are after all are one among view tech company a member of SDMI.
hmmm.....I wonder if there is a secret little pulley built in inside windows98 to kill MP3 already...
heh heh.....
I don't see how such a "lock" could be imposed, the worst thing that would happen is you would convert the sound to analog and mp3 it from there. Furthermore, one can ALWAYS just make a disk image which would hold a lot better quality then an mp3 (although much larger). I don't think the music industry has any idea about music, let alone computers. You can't ban music, such as you can't ban video.. if you can see it or hear it, it can always be copied. And yes, the quality can change due to how the media is recorded; however, "life always finds a way" - Ian (Jurassic Park)
Piracy cannot be banned, people cannot be contained, and Microsoft cannot be trusted. This debate is as rediculous as saying that you don't want anyone to copy your email so you encrypt it, and then give everyone a copy of the decryption key.. and think you are protected because it was encrypted; however, this will not stop anyone from distributing the decrypted message which was your original intention.
This article from the RIAA is an idle-threat to mp3 as Microsoft is to open source.
I'm old enough to remember when Dolby-B noise reduction was introduced.
The RIAA went bonkers.
"Cassettes recorded with Dolby-B will allow people to pirate and trade albums! This will be the end of the music industry."
They tried to outlaw Dolby-B.
Now cassettes encoded with Dolby-B are the music industry's bread and butter.
When television came out, the movie studios went bat s**t. "No one will go to the movies anymore!"
Didn't happen.
When VHS tape came out, the Movie studios went bat s**t again. "This will kill the movie industry."
Now the sales and rental of VHS movies represents the most profitable aspect of movie making.
When DAT came out. RIAA went nuts again. "This will kill the recording industry."
Didn't happen.
You'd think by now the people in the entertainment industry would have learned not to be so damn PARANOID!
Why can't they embrace MP3 like they eventually did the cassette? THEY can distribute their product in MP3 format!
New consumer recording formats and distribution means have NEVER measurably hurt the recording industry! Why can't they look at their own history and learn from it?
They may not be able to make you want it, but there are ways to make you "choose" it anyway. Right now, the major format is PCM (audio CDs). All they have to do is sell SDMI music at $1 per song, and raise the price of a 10-song CD to $40. Which will you buy then?
And suppose you stubbornly buy the $40 CD. How are you going to feel when you find out that it comes with a "free" license for the SDMI music? You'll have bought into it anyway... You'll ultimately be faced with a choice of either giving up and letting RIAA win, or pirating.
I know it seems silly to take RIAA's threats seriously, since it's so easy to have faith in the market. Just remember that these people can buy your elected representatives and pass all kinds of weird legislation (oops, too late, they already did, last year) to pretty much legally force you to do things their way.
By all means, dance on their graves when it's over, but until then, watch out. I think the best thing to do right now is encourage good musicians to examine the possibilities of using formats like MP3 to bypass the labels/RIAA altogether, in order to increase their own profits. If the "prime movers" of music stop giving power to RIAA, then we'll win.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I personally own a record company and guess what, we want you to pirate our stuff. The theory behind that is band exposure.. So "Mr. Big Man" can =X my white butt.
To check out my label (which is working on the bands page ) click there --> Jackleg Inc. Records and Zine.
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
DBX all the way.. Better noise canceling.
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
I never thought they'd go through with that. If anything, it has the potential to make things worse; a proprietary format means new tech, which costs money, which means the consumer pays in the end. And that means more people go to MP3.
I only take a drink on two occasions - when I'm thirsty and when I'm not.
Brendan Behan
from the article: "Steve Grady, vice president of marketing at MP3 retailer GoodNoise, said that if the record labels don't put the consumer first in their architecture plans, piracy will only increase and the industry could ultimately lose out on new business opportunities on the Web." What's this? An industry honcho with the consumer in mind? The RIAA and the companies it represents should take a lesson from this man. I'm not worried. If people want MP3, it will always be around. Plain and simple. As soon as SDMI starts becoming popular w/ the record companies (and it will) i'll find a cracked player (cracked not to take away from the developer(s), just not to fund the RIAA) and record the SDMI files to wav w/ total recorder as they pass through my soundcard. After all, that's how i've been converting the liquid audio and a2b "secure" foramts all along.
from the article:
"Steve Grady, vice president of marketing at MP3 retailer GoodNoise, said that if the record labels don't put the consumer first in their architecture plans, piracy will only increase and the industry could ultimately lose out on new business opportunities on the Web."
What's this? An industry honcho with the consumer in mind? The RIAA and the companies it represents should take a lesson from this man.
I'm not worried. If people want MP3, it will always be around. Plain and simple. As soon as SDMI starts becoming popular w/ the record companies (and it will) i'll find a cracked player (cracked not to take away from the developer(s), just not to fund the RIAA) and record the SDMI files to wav w/ total recorder as they pass through my soundcard. After all, that's how i've been converting the liquid audio and a2b "secure" foramts all along.
lol - this is too funny!!!
i'm still laughing - lol
this is a joke, right? right?!?
ok - i'm not laughing any more...
i'm getting a little scared...
definitely not funny any more...
is this for real?!? getting mad...
i'll read the article - huh?!?
ok - these dumbasses have been smoking crack
M$/Lucent/RIAA at the helm - no worries...
MP3 will prevail!!! - warm fuzzies - zzzzzzz
and somedays I can even find discs for it. Even though it is getting harder. The problem with laserdiscs wasn't competing standards, but that it was so much cheaper to make VHS tape than a huge, double-sided acrylic coated disc.
But they still make some LD's, because there are still over 3 to 4 times as many LD players as DVD players (though that is a changing).
But copy protection on next generation music discs won't stop it, just like "copy protection" systems didn't work for VHS. All you had to do was hookup the output from VCR1 to the input on VCR2 and tada! New DVD audio format, hookup RCA output on player 1 to RCA input to Soundcard, CD burner, MD recorder, tape (eeuuuccchh) recorder, whatever.....
Posted by el_steevo:
SDMI is close to DMSI, (Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc)... I wonder if they chose that acronym to cheese off our friends in San Jose?
I see one major flaw in the RIAA thinking.
As long as they produce physical media, we will continue to make mp3s. They can put out their new copywrited formats all they want, but the deal is, WE are the people make the audio files, not them. WE are the ones distributing them on the net, not them, and WE will continue to produce mp3s until the point in time in which you can no longer purchase a physical CD.
Dont fret, mp3s arent going anywhere.
oh god, this is getting idiotic. the only reason RIAA even cares is because if music is "open sourced", then there will be no need for RIAA in the first place. they are fighting for their own survival. giving a new music format would allow the RIAA guys to keep their jobs. just more crap for us consumers to deal with. next they'll want to put their own advertisement in the end of the song.
so stupid. same old fights, same stupid results. the consumer will get shafted.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
- The whole things smacks of illegality: 'kill signal' sounds like a virus. Plus the antitrust aspect is fairly obvious.
- MP3 already has market and mind share. Anything hoping to beat it will have to be radically better in terms of compression ratio and quality.
- RIAA is a fossil, totally out of touch with the Internet and the consumer.
- Someone will hack their 'secure' format within a few months at most.
- Copy protection doesn't matter anyway, people can still rip CDs.
Another thing to think about, it took years to come up with MP3. It literally took hundresds of Ph.D. Person-Years to come up with it! RIAA thinks they can come up with something better by next year, but they are wrong. Add to this the infighting and jockeying for position among the many players, and I predict another two years, at least of lead-time for MP3.- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
"Why can't they look at their own history and learn from it?"
. . . simple -- fear is, almost by definition, mindless. The fear reaction is preventing the RIAA from thinking straight, as a corporate entity.
In fact, I'll bet that the RIAA *thinks* that they're borrowing a page from the Microsoft/Intel playbook. Gates/Grove have been quoted many times extolling the values of corporate fear. It seems to me that the RIAA has confused two different kinds of fear & paranoia -- Gates/Grove talk about how they never rest easy, about always looking over their shoulder. Basically, they're always nervous.
The RIAA, on the other hand, seems to be in perpetual panic. You can almost hear their hearts racing . . .
Just make a revision of mpeg compression. Then it's no longer supported by the software or hardware.. whoopie doo, free music is saved. :o)
We needed that silence compression anyways, trance music needs it.
The way I understand it (and this is just what I picked up from the article), this kill switch is embedded in SDMI software/hardware (ie portable music players); it is NOT some magical switch that prevents you from playing MP3's on your computer permanently.
Instead, the hardware manufacturers are allowed to sell players for MP3 with the option of SDMI. As SDMI actually becomes a viable standard, the RIAA says "okay, now hit the switch" and now your portable MP3 player no longer plays MP3s (or at least the ones sold after that date).
It will take guerilla person to person marketing to inform the consumer that these proprietary standards are an attempt to stick their hand in everyones pocket. If no one buys the technology, it could backfire with a dozens of players on the market with no one buying them. Think of all the jack they could lose while everyone is cutting their own MP3s.
Tsk tsk tsk. Poor old big corporations don't understand what is happening to the world's infosphere and will die of asphyxiation while the rest of us breathe easier. (if only we could say that about the atmosphere!)
The record companies are accustomed to total control of the content base. They are a small cadre and thus are a controlling cartel. Anything that threatens their control threatens their whole basis of existence.
If artists could promote directly, or form cooperatives, or deal with a wider field without the controlling giants, we'd have a freer music scene and the only losers will be the corporate middlemen who pimp the artists and take their 90% from the Johns. Good riddance to them. Let them fossilize under the KT boundary.
-MikeR-
"...accountants instead of music fans
call all the shots at giant record companies now
the lowest common denominator rules."
---Jello Biafra
I can see it all now, all music labels under the RIAA are forced to distribute all thier future music in SDMI format. Noone buys SDMI payers/encoders so therefor noone buys any music put out by the major record companies.. By noone of course I mean geeks cause the plbs and teenybopers are gonna buy the music they want no matter what the price of freedom is. But we have effectivly put up a very good campain and almost virtualy distroyed DIVX a technology that without our constant battles the pbls would have bought into in mass. Can we do it again.. and this time maby the RIAA will do down with it!.. Can we only hope.. Though you realise we are going to have to responsibility of replacing the RIAA and supporting the music artist would could be hurt by this action if we arn't careful.
Competing music compression formats which acheive 10:1 reduction in file size will be irrelevant when the average user has 10x more network bandwidth and storage devices with 10x the density.
So in 5 years when it is feasible to FTP entire albums of uncompressed 44.1kHz 16 bit stereo sound to your home PC and write them onto flash cards which hold 2-10G of data, who will care if the RIAA supports a proprietary compression format for music distribution?
Wouldn't it be cool if we could somehow refund the artists without having to pay through the RIAA? Any ideas, people? Come on. Open standards might be cool, but cheating musicians out of their reward isn't.
-- Micah Lionette
and don't forget, they had to pay for their video, pay for the studio time, pay for the promotional stuff, etc. etc. then the lawyers, managers, etc. etc....
They probably were lucky to net $80k each from that album.
Unless you've already twisted the industry's arm (like REM, Led Zep in its day, etc) or gone and started your own industry (TAFKAP, Fripp), you are going to be royally shafted by record companies....
...and mount a "grassroots" campain similar in tone as DVD enthusiasts did when DIVX came out. If and when this SDMI pans out, we need to constantly bombard the media/reviewers/retailers with the facts about the two formats and make sure they understand how much SDMI hurts consumers while MP3 is what benefits consumers.
Because it is ultimately consumers that will decided the outcome of this "war". If we allow the RIAA to convince consumers that SDMI is right for them, then MP3 will be marginalized (note nothing can _Completely_ destroy a format).
DVD should be hailed as the biggest success that consumers have had over corporations trying to tell them what they want. We should use the pro-DVD/anti-DIVX campain as a model for our own.
That's okay, let Sony and the others follow the RIAA's lead. Someone will just come up with a "Open Source" player, and make more money off it than all of the SDMI players.
-G
+--
Given infinite time, 100 monkeys could type out the complete works of Shakespeare.
+-- (Score:-1, Moderator on Power Trip)
It smells like an antitrust violation. RIAA is an association representing an entire industry; if they collude to exclude a competitor from the market, it sounds like a group boycott to me.
If they go forward with this, or any evidence of this is available, there is every reason to organize a private suit against these guys, let them publicly announce first.
The kill switch (which some have called a simple virus) will be embedded in songs so that playing can only occur a finite number of times. Does this playing mean digital recordings of the said tracks with said encoding or does this mean overall playings of tracks with said encoding?
I ask this since I can fire up something like sound recorder in windoze and hit the record button pretty much simultaneous to playing the music. Then I get to encode it with my mp3 encoder and voila, new mp3. Sure it's a long process, but it escapes the evil therein. (if you don't count the fact that I used an ms product as my example.)
Will this destroy my tapes that I make to listen in my car oh great RIAA gods?
Sounds like a bunch of smack talk that hasn't been fully engineered.
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
There was a link a few weeks ago to a point by point comparison of DVD and DIVX. I see MP3 vs. SMDI as pretty much the same thing.
Neither DVD or MP3 have any "opinion" about copying policy. They're just data plain and simple and people seem to have accepted DVD. DIVX and SMDI are both designed to honor some restriction on usage that prevents things from going on that the studios and record companies can't make money on. People seem to have rejected DIVX for this reason.
It comes down to something really simple. People will not accept restrictions when a free and easy alternative is available. The new format will fail.
I like to play children's songs in minor keys.
"We're all sons of bitches now." --J. Robert Oppenheimer
Play a MP3 through whatever system you are using resample it onto anything else you have... what will it sound like? Great right!
Now recompress it to add it to your collection... what does it sound like now?
Other than that... right on, bud!
OK, so the Y2K thing was a little *cough* oversight. Now, they want to disable compressed audio transmissions on purpose? Sounds criminal to me. What a bunch of thugs!
Oh well, a certain evil operating system pretty much self destructs and disables itself after about a year and a half anyway, so why not your audio/visuals too? Seems like the RIAA wants to become the software dictators for the 21st century.
Do they not realize that people get mp3's the easiest by ripping cd's?..
Why is it that RIAA is completely in a world of it's own when it comes to what they can do legaly.
Let's see.. is there any competition in the music industry? If any other industry bigwigs got together and said for instance let's hike up our ticket porices up 20%.. the government would be on their asses on an instant.
To me, it seems like the RIAA is doing price fixing. And using anti-competative/monopolistic practices to beat up on the 'lill guy. And the government fopr some reason just let's them.. even though it would stomp on anyone else trying to do the same. Why?
Ex-Nt-User
>The kicker -- require software and hardware companies that license the format to include some sort of kill switch which would prohibit the user from downloading and playing mp3 files. " I'd insert a snide comment here, but...I don't think I need to.
This is illegal in three different ways, if indeed, it is as stated.
1: If implemented in software, and it affects other programs ability to play MP3's, then the consumers can sue them for damages. What if I use MP3's as part of my job or work? Hmmmm?
2: Same as above, the makers of programs that play MP3's can nail them for anti-competitive practices.
3: If implemented in hardware, most hardware manufacturers (talking about, say.. soundcards, for example) would nail them for anti-competitive practices.
Basically, it won't happen.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
For example: the SDMI spec gets finalized. Now anyone wanting to produce an SDMI walkman (or whatever) will not be given the spec unless they sign a legal agreement stating that they will not support other formats. THAT's the danger here.
I don't think anyone in the RIAA is naive enough to really believe they could sabotage other formats on a PC.
These clods are killing themselves. This is REALLY funny! The encryption guys there are pulling their chains. They KNOW this is all BS, but they smell money. The RIAA will pump in mega-bucks and get jack in return.
Meanwhile, we will keep right on ripping and jamming.
Before their new "standard" gets out of the lab, we will all have tiny, wearable PCs with standard sound chips. Who needs a proprietary player when your pocket PC does so much more?
Where, according to TBTF they're trying to ban all X rated content everywhere.
They are not worried about piracy. Well, not much. MP3 presents a new threat that didn't exist in any of the examples that you mentioned.
Cassettes, CDs, DATs... these are physical things. They were never a serious threat to labels, because a musician still needed someone to mass-copy the media and distribute it to brick and mortar stores.
Formats like MP3 make the labels obsolete. That's why RIAA is doing this. You can bet your ass that the one most important feature of SDMI will be that it is not open. A musician will not be able to encode his or her music as SDMI unless they sign something and give up some of their rights or a percentage of the profit. If SDMI is open, then it is useless for RIAA (and possibly useful for everyone else).
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Something seems sort of odd here. A group of people are saying that they will sell a product which will work initially, until it stops working at a time determined by the manufacturer alone.
Isn't there something weird about this? When software is sold for a certain period, it has to actually be set what the conditions are. What are they going to do, say in their contract that they have to come out with X titles in the new format before the old one turns off? Or are you just allowed to sell defective products now? (I guess Microsoft does it all the time... advertized features that don't work...
Anyone want to join the AC Betting Pool on how long this survives? AC has dibbs on 2 weeks.
If these wacko people finally do kill MP3 do they honestly think that this SDMI will stop us from ripping music. It will just takes us a couple more days to code something to get around it or turn it off ourselves. They can never stop the online music revolution.
"life sucks so i should just end it, but then who would entertain you?"
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
>>I don't know who their technical consultants are, but they obviously don't have a f*cking clue what's going on.
Think about it from this perspective, if YOU were the one that the RIAA had contracted to save their butts at what $100, maybe $200 per hour would you work 8 hours on the problem and say "Sorry, you're fscked. Give up now." take your check and go home? Or would you think, "Hey this is a multi billion dollar industry, they'll pay me indefintely if they think that I can save them." and say "Yes Mr. Schmuckateli I think I have a solution in mind for your 'little' problem." and milk them for every cent you can get?
The consultants that they've hired should understand how things work on the internet. It's the company executives who do not. They're the ones who think that the internet is like a power grid or the telephone system.
With the type of people involved, the truth isn't what they want, they want near simple easy to understand answers. I had a client once who had to claim that the network at her school was infected with a virus in order to get administration to pay for a service call so that I could fix her broken computers. We said that it had to be some type of stealth virus because I couldn't find any traces of it. The suits don't care about reality, just their little piece of the pie.
LK
If TLC sold 10 million albums and only got $250,000 per person then TLC is to blame. The music industry is just like any other business, you negotiate your best deal and live with it.
Sure it may not be ethical, but the goal for any company is to make money, they will take advantage of you if you let them. That goes for any industry, not just the music biz.
With mp3, we're negotiating the best deal ever.
**>>BELCH
God Bless America.
**>>BELCH
Any number of tricks could get around a problem like this, for instance lightweight encryption (minimal size increse etc..)would make an mp3 unrecognizable to any program looking to prevent it from being blocked by, say... Netscape or Windows2000, and a nicely modular mp3 player like winamp would easily pick up the ability to play the file.
Of course I dont see consumers letting this happen to begin with..
A friend just pointed this out in email... MP3 singles could serve much the same function for indie musicians that the radio does now. Remember, radio is largely promotional advertising for the record industry. They encourage radio stations to play singles so people will go buy CDs. Of course, this only benefits those lucky artists and pseudo-artists who get heavy label promotion. But for those who don't get promoted, buying a CD without hearing any of it first is a bit of a gamble for the consumer. MP3 changes that, giving the indie musicians a way for consumers to check it out at their leisure before committing to a purchase. And of course, the CDs can be purchased online, away from the brick-and-mortar selection-limiting mechanism known as record stores...
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
an interesting point,and it probably sums up why the whole "open source" movement is important...
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
After the movie industry did its ever loving best to shut down the Betamax machine, taking the case all the way to the Supreme Court, no less, what happened?
Losers, losers, losers.
The Supreme Court made clear than unless Sony was actually inducing people to pirate videotapes, there could be liability only if the apparatus had no lawful noninfringing use. Since the Court found that using a VCR for time-shifting of broadcast television would constitute fair use, this meant that a customer COULD be making lawful use of the VCR, and hence there was no liability.
[Deep irony, of course, is that SONY couldn't manage to persuade the world to accept a seriously closed format, even though the alternative was technically inferior in many respects. At the end of the day, SONY owned 100% of nothing, and litigated the film industry into what was probably the most profitable legal result for a loser in history.]
It seems apparent that opportunities for non-infringing use of MP3 format abound.
Accordingly, what matter of this supposed "willing[ness] to fight for [RIAA's] interests in the courts[?] It has the money and the muscle to try to convince technology companies and Internet music vendors to see things its way."
How? Sue who? For what? In the face of blatant Supreme Court authority? Fine. Time will put that threat to bed, although someone will have to suffer for awhile, with a probable award of attorney fees at the end of the day for a prevailing defendant.
Boycotting the format? Well, for that to work, they'll have to accomplish what even OPEC could not -- a boycott on a prodigious format means ceding a potent market, and hence, as soon as one company decides to make a buck that way, it will take balls of steel but a mind of mush to ignore it. Record industry is no longer a lock -- alternative labels do and can "make it." Can RIAA's boycot?
RIAA may be a formidable force. However, a free market is a far more formidable force. The natural and inexorable flow of capital flows harder and more forcefully than any dinosaur trying to protect a dying turf. Witness: OPEC.
At the end of the day, RIAA's best hope is to find a magical alternative format that people will *WANT* to use. Anything less will not be enough. Any other strategy is losing.
This is pretty much the typical kind of thing I would expect from the RIAA. They do a number of other things, because they "represent the interests of the musician."
If you run a tavern, or a bowling alley or supermarket, or really just about any public space, and you provide background music (records, or Muzak or even the radio) you pay a bill to the RIAA that provides "royalties" to the poor starving musicians.
The fact that the "poor starving musicians" are basically locked into an RIAA prision (the Music Biz as it exists in todays market) means nothing to these people.
The RIAA has been a monopoly for ages. It's a protection racket. And they're VERY VERY astute where it comes to the law, and lobbying.
Needless to say they are threatened by MP3, as has already been said in this thread, they've historically challanged anything that threatens to disturb the status quo that they own.
the riaa is stupid - whatever format they try to force on people; it is a fact that the source code for mp3 is already out there in millions of users hands, and there is no way they can stop people from using it. if they try to hold back all the artists they have signed from using the mp3 format, all that will happen is massive piracy to mp3. if they'd smarten up, they'd embrace mp3, accept some pirating losses (which are actually "gains", because pirated music means that a band becomes more popular, and more legitamate users will buy legitamate product). personally, the riaa can rot in hell for all i care, it is their arrogance that has given us the deluge of "we sell whatever is most popular" top40 music crud while cutting a lot of real musicians out of their game. i can't wait for the first sdmi-mp3 converter utility... hee hee! :-)
Nobody just seem to concentrate on the main geeky idea of this mp3 kill thing. Like, how could something block me from receiving a stream of bits from a file, decoding them using a special algorhytm into PCM data which is being sent to the soundcard. Would all soundcards from now require a special key-protected system for sound output?! That sounds even less possible than Intel blocking me from running
:)
Linux software on a Pentium machine. Next idea - yes, I know - it gonna be a special virus-like debugging tracer which gonna look out for instructions which could possibly make up an mp3 decoder. Cute idea coders, eh?
Anyway, if someone thinks I didn't quite get the point, by all means, tell me, I'd really like to know what those paranoids really have in mind. I think it gonna be funny
Basicly, the RIAA can't conceive of living in a world where the customers are expected to be honorable and pony up a few dollars for the support of their fave bands. Wildly amusing, since a number of bands have more from merchandising than selling CD's.
But what do you expect from a business segment that is basicly dishonorable. Just ask Robert Fripp or Frank Zappa's family.
All the technology in the world won't hide your lack of vision, talent, or understanding.
But please tell me that Leo's nickname isn't "Knuckles" or "The Splint" ...
- nr
Considering that the entire music industry, in a year, has revenues equal to 1 month of IBM's revenues, nevermind every other technology company on the earth who would have to sign up.
That's the funny part about being an ultra-controlling bastard -- you have to own/control _everything_, or you have nothing.
In this case RIAA has nothing.
The RIAA does NOT care about the 1% of the population who read Slashdot, use Linux, have the technological background to thwart copy protection, the time to surf the net for mp3's, use crappy handheld one hour portable players, etc.
They are aiming the initiative at the GENERAL population who would just like to go to CD-NOW and purchase a $1 single and download it to their computer.
Also, even though MP3's are popular now, people would much rather use a format that is secure, cost effective, and easy to use. I'm sorry, but the MP3 format does not fit the bill. People still buy software even with WAREZ pervasive on the Internet because they are honest and don't want to break the law. I guarantee people will pay a lousy dollar or two for a song if it means they can easily download it and play it hassle free.
Lastly, this hardware deactivation feature does not mean that it will deactivate current mp3 players on your computer, only those players that support the new format.
When the general computer using population sees an add for $1 singles, they will go to their favorite online music store, download an SDMI enabled player, and the RIAA will have another user. The fact that it will initially support MP3's will simply be another feature for these users, but eventually the users will be weaned off of mp3's because SDMI songs will be so easy to buy, play and find.
MP3's are popular now because there is no alternative. People weigh buying a $15 CD with downloading a pirated song and right now, Pirating songs wins a lot of the time. People don't like breaking the law if they don't have to. Once the record labels allow people to make their own customized CD's, it will immediately launch whatever format they support to the forefront. MP3's will be MAINLY relegated to pirating users and for people's own personal use. The rest of us, will start purchasing SMDI collections because our time is worth more than a dollar or two.
The RIAA does NOT care about the 1% of the population who read Slashdot, use Linux, have the technological background to thwart copy protection, the time to surf the net for mp3's, use crappy handheld one hour portable players, etc.
They are aiming the initiative at the GENERAL population who would just like to go to CD-NOW and purchase a $1 single and download it to their computer.
Also, even though MP3's are popular now, people would much rather use a format that is secure, cost effective, and easy to use. I'm sorry, but the MP3 format does not fit the bill. People still buy software even with WAREZ pervasive on the Internet because they are honest and don't want to break the law. I guarantee people will pay a lousy dollar or two for a song if it means they can easily download it and play it hassle free.
Lastly, this hardware deactivation feature does not mean that it will deactivate current mp3 players on your computer, only those players that support the new format.
When the general computer using population sees an add for $1 singles, they will go to their favorite online music store, download an SDMI enabled player, and the RIAA will have another user. The fact that it will initially support MP3's will simply be another feature for these users, but eventually the users will be weaned off of mp3's because SDMI songs will be so easy to buy, play and find.
MP3's are popular now because there is no alternative. People weigh buying a $15 CD with downloading a pirated song and right now, Pirating songs wins a lot of the time. People don't like breaking the law if they don't have to. Once the record labels allow people to make their own customized CD's, it will immediately launch whatever format they support to the forefront. MP3's will be MAINLY relegated to pirating users and for people's own personal use. The rest of us, will start purchasing SMDI collections because our time is worth more than a dollar or two.
FLAME ON!
From the Wired Website...
"SDMI backers want manufacturers to
build a time-bomb trigger into their
products that, when activated at a later
date, would prevent users from
downloading or playing non-SDMI-compliant music.
The hardware would initially support MP3
and other compressed file formats, but
a signal from the RIAA would activate
the blocking trigger."
Okay this would be akin to downloading IE5.0 and at a signal from M$ having it disable Netscape. After you've already been using it. Somehow it looks like freedom of choice will take a flying leap out of a skyscrapper if this hits the market.DOJ would have a field day with this....
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
"this would be akin to downloading IE5.0 and at a signal from M$ having it disable Netscape."
No it wouldn't - it would be like being able to use IE5.0 to view web pages all over but then at a signal from microsoft IE5 stopped processing pages that weren't written in MS-HTML. Notice they refered to "the hardware" - they're talking about making a format that lets you play mp3's as well as their own stuff, getting it accepted, players made that support it ect - and then when it's everywhere closing the door on mp3. Your PC will still play mp3's but they want to make it so no one would want to becuase the 'standard' is this SDMI thing. Getting it to be the standard means hooking people in by letting it support mp3 - FOR A WHILE.
Sure, it won't kill them, but it's a good position to start from when you need to bend the government over.
for instance, DAT's didn't kill the industry, but saying so allowed them to get congress to impose a levy on all blank media, a fraction of which I believe is kicked back to the RIAA companies.
:>
I'm not sure if I totally get this. But from what I understood, they want to force hardware / software companies into basically banning MP3s from their products?
... I'm listeningm right now, to an MP3 in X11AMP (in Linux) which I downloaded from the net. How the hell are they going to (a) stop me from downloading the file? Let's say I get a friend to encode the file from a CD, and then send the MP3 file to me over IRC (xdcc). Do they think they can actually stop MP3s from being transfered around the net? Maybe they can shutdown some huge MP3 piracy web sites (which, btw, probably deserve it anyway). But they sure as hell can't stop me from doing what I just described.
Now
(b) how are they going to stop Linux programs from running MP3s? They couldn't stop people from writing and giving away miltiary-strength encryption algorithms. How are they going to stop people from coding things like X11AMP?
(c) what can my hardware do about it? Are they going to get harddrives to intelligently delete all *.mp3 files [without the support of the operating system]? I don't think so.
I don't think so. There IS one thing that they may be able to pull off. They could very well kill the COMMERCIAL value of MUSIC in MP3 format. Perhaps by coming up with a format which is harder to pirate. But then I don't really care all that much. MP3 has come all this way without being a major commercial part of the music industry, and it can continue without it as well. I don't think very many people actually buy legal MP3 files anyway. So this is just part of all the commercial sh*t that happens in the music industry.
It doesn't matter what they do right now. This layer3 format is here to stay.
Maybe if an action had be taken when it started but now, i dont think so.
MP3 will survive, thats a fact
At some point any proprietary SDMI-type system has to output through the sound drivers. If those sound drivers were modified to stream the audio data to disc you'd effectively get the raw audiofile on disc with no quality loss. Then run it through the compressor of your choice. I don't really see any way they can stop this from happening, especially if their product ever runs on Linux or any other Open Source OS.
I guess there might be legal issues but apparently all my MP3s are illegal even now, even though I do own the CDs they came from. I don't feel guilty having music I own in mp3 format, so I don't expect I'd shy away from doing this either. Why don't they just come up with a good watermarking system?
What hardware? A Rio-like device? Your CD player/cd-rom drive?
--
I'm afraid sloppy has a point. Let's drag M$ back into this; if Windows uses SDMI, has some sort of SDMI controls built in, and 99.9999999% of the personal computers in the world are running windows, well, forget it.
It's still possible to avoid SDMI, just most people won't want to, cause everyone else uses it.
rh
Good. I hope they do. I don't like any music under the major labels anyway, bunch of sellouts.
I'd rather listen to some real music that wasnt created by an artist who only cares about his/her wallet.
for those using bill's software, check out wave to disk (beware geocities popup window).
note it works with winnt only. it is gpl'ed.
When the poster wrote:
I don't think he meant "Repeat the SDMI backers wishes in baby talk for me." I think he was responding to which seems to suggest that not only would the SDMI player must refuse to play MP3s, but that it must prevent the user from playing MP3s--indeed, even downloading--MP3s. Now, this seems technically difficult.Your point about open-source is accidentally relevant though. How could a program prevent other progrms (like an MP3 player) from accessing sound devices, CPU cycles, etc... Maybe it's possible, but if you have an open-source browser, how can you prevent someone from downloading a particluar file?
If TLC sold 10 million albums and only got $250,000 per person then TLC is to blame.
Unless, of course, that was the best deal being offered. That's the crux of the MP3 vs. RIAA war. RIAA hates MP3 because it offers a new route from the musician to the listener, one that so far, gives each a better deal. For the listener, do I want to pay 8.99 (or so) to MP3.com for new music, or 16.99 to an RIAA member. For the musician, do I want 50% of 8.99 with MP3.com, or 10% of 16.99 from RIAA?
Please read my article on the future of artists and MP3 here. Cheers. Feeedback appreciated.
Left out the www bit in the URL
Please read my article on the future of artists and MP3 here. Cheers. Feeedback appreciated.
Remember when the RIAA tried to stop the RIO? Boy, that suit went real far.....
so they will have plenty of cash to blast these bastard's with....
If they "ban" mp3's they can only ban them as much as pirated software has been banned. all they will succeed in is making the legal mp3'ers stop using them. The people they are trying to stop will only laugh at them and pirate the players/encoders as well, which they are probably already doing.
Its like taking the guns away from the people, the only people with guns will be the criminals.
-K
Ken Mitchner PHP/SQL Programmer Currently Seeking Employment
Let's face it, the whole MP3 arguement we make here doesn't hold much water unless more people start using the acutal Microphone (or synthesizer, etc.) to make real actual new music on the MP3 format. Certainly I have seen an amount of new and original music being distributed (hooray!) in the MP3 format on the net, but it seems like a lot of people think "music" is made by elves in a factory somewhere, and their job is just to move it around from one format to another. "Ripping" CDs at this point in time is illegal, and if it's all the "MP3 Movement" is up to doing, it's not a lot different from an ethical point of view from stripping the credit and license info from GPL'd software and claiming it as your own.
I'm not writing this to be flamebait here, just to get people to think. There have been Microphone jacks on the front of cassette decks for as long as they've been on the market. But what percentage of the machines out there have ever had a microphone plugged in?
MP3, if it is to take hold, has to become a two-way format. Artists, hopefully a lot of new artists, have to start using it to distribute new creations. It isn't enough for people to use a cable to move stuff from another format over to it and expect that to cause the format to take hold.
The Music Biz is what it is today (a big bloated octopus that controls and crushes what it can't control) because people are willing to just sit on the sofa punching remote control buttons. MP3 and the Net presents an opportunity to challange that, by elbowing in and having a say in how the distribution network functions. But it ain't gonna happen if all we want to do with it is steal tracks off commercially released CDs.
When was the last time YOU did something creative with music? If you can carry a tune in your head, you're capable of producing some. Think about it.
> decoder->framebuffer->encoder
Well, not really... all it does is strip the extra strong signal that is present durring the virtical retrace. I've seen schematics for one that use $10 worth of hardware, if you build it yourself. I just bought one from the 'damark' catalog (a 'video clarifier') for $30, and it works great! (havn't seen a tape yet that it wouldn't let me copy)
Ce n'est pas une signature automatique.
RIAA's fight against MP3 is not about piracy, it's about barriers to entry. They say it's about piracy because that's legal to block.
RIAA has a long history in this area. They started by fighting the 45 RPM single. Because the equipment to produce 45s was cheaper than that for 78s, they feared that competition might rear it's ugly head when 'upstarts' can afford to get into the record business.
Next was tape in any form. Cheaper equipment still, even lower barrier to entry.
DAT, no news there.
CDR, same deal.
MP3, biggest fight yet. Not only is MP3 cheap to produce, it's also cheap to distribute. A single individual with a vision could (GASP!!!) compete with us!!!
They'll never own up to that, because it's illegal.
Posted by Sparhawk13:
this sucks...dammit...mp3's rule...why is it that whenever something cool comes along some dumbass tries to get it banned? BAH
We have seen example after example of real market demand destroying proprietary ownership of resources, any time there is competition.
The American Steel industry tried to keep Japanese steel makers from dumping their products in our markets - rasberry.
American car makers tried to FUD their way through the invasion of higher quality products from foriegn shores. Result: major marketshare losses, layoffs, and a long road to retooling before they recovered.
IBM's stubborn insistance that PCs were toys unworthy of competing against the mainframe world was a blunder of titanic proportions.
The Baby Bells are fighting tooth and nail against hungrier competitors, including ISPs and CLECs, by tying up access to the public switched network in the courts.
RIAA is just another bloated protectionist special interest group whose tight-fisted clutch on content providers is loosening, due to vast incentives in the open market to get around them. They can't stop it, but they can sure pursue a policy of slowing down the process of loss of market control.
The riding crop makers are squalling again. The market will spank them severely, and we'll all get on to the Next Big Thing.
The whole idea of a kill switch is ludicrous, especially on alternative platforms. Sure, they'll try to "own" Win32, but when it comes to Linux/BSD/etc, they're out of luck. It's unlikely that the community would scrap mp3 (with the multitude of free, GPL'ed players) and pick up on SDMI, which only WORKS if it's locked up tight. I know I wouldn't. I just want to listen to some music.
Finally, the idea of 'preventing' the user from using a competing format, is by definition, anti-competitive, and a group of concerned users could easily bring upon a lawsuit.
Moral: It won't happen. And if it does, we can drown the RIAA in so much legal red-tape, that they won't have time to see MP3 turn around and bite them in the...
----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------
The net has a FAST path of propagation. Once something gets out, it spreads quickly, unlike the physical media you pointed above.
Besides, I want them to get lost. I want FREEDOM!!!
--
I want free speech _and_ free beer.
WinAMP outputs as a WAV basically... it just uses CPU to decode the MP3 and outputs as a WAV... So how exactly would they block it through hardware? By blocking all WAV files that use high amounts of CPU to play?? I think not...
8Complex
We can have some hax0r rev-engineer some players or even encoders and publish the hacked specs. Then somebody (in some other country or even crypto-anonymously) would make a GPL decoder/player/encoder. Then we would happily use SDMI as our shiny new fileformat.
Of course our GPL player would be fully compliant: it would check for the 'copyrighted' bit and deny decoding to pure waveform (thus avoiding piping to an mp3/whatever encoder). But since it's open source, it's easy to locate that check and ifdef it out. And probably there will be some music in SDMI that's freely copiable - demos and the like. So we could simply clear the 'deny copying' (aka 'copyrighted') bit.
There's no reason for not having another file format - and the RIAA won't allow the makers of SDMIdec to include mp3 support in it? Fine, we will be using X frontends from _somebody else_ that would call the right decoder depending on the format anyway.
They just won't be able to stop us - because they know nothing about our way of thinking and doing things. They don't understand free software.
And remember: "The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."
SMDI is a "yet to be defined" standard.
I think the RIAA is just making smoke anyways, the ONLY way this new standard would catch on is if it had an even better compression scheme than mp3, and even then, we all know that we'll just resample mp3s.
I am afraid they're gonna make it a clinet-server based thing, where you HAVE to be on the internet to listen to music. That sucks for dialup people like myself. What ever happened to just turning on mood music?
Oh well, It's not gonna happen. The internet and mp3's are, IMHO, stronger than a lot of corperations. I know you'll pry MY mp3's out of my cold, death hands. Lots of people sample all their CD's to mp3, because it's more conveniant and mp3's don't scratch.
- Paradox
You were a fool to doubt me, Mr. Manager....
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
This is the 90s. Musicians _already_ have to go on tour _and_ pay for their own promotion _and_ merchandising and do that all themselves and still won't make any money. ;P ;)
If you are really _serious_ about business _and_ play brilliant music you might be able to be self-supporting through it, but 2/3 of your work will be running the business.
What do you think this is, the 60s or something?
Me, I have two mp3s up. I produced an album with good pop songs years ago but couldn't get anywhere with it. As soon as I have the technical capability, I'll be finding a way to release the whole album freely as mp3, as I have nothing to lose. I hope eventually to be burning CDs and selling those over the net- that isn't likely to be self-supporting either but it could be a nice source of pocket change- I am a damn good engineer and the CDs would sound markedly better than the mp3s.
Another point is that this poverty-stricken situation is rather liberating musically- it doesn't matter if my music fits a mold (like the pop-ready album I recorded). I could put out singles rather than try and accumulate entire albums. I could put out long experimental musical pieces that'd never ever be played on the radio. ever
I can't even be angry at the RIAA. They have done nothing for me, ever. They've done nothing for the musicians I listen to either- if you're educated you know that the industry is a damned slaughterhouse and musicians are the cattle. That just is, there's no changing it from the inside under these conditions. So I am grateful I _didn't_ try so hard to make it on their terms. I'll be happier and very possibly make more money by doing it on my terms.
Here, have some mp3 instrumentals (due to lack of money and RAM for editing these are sections of longer pieces, and they are likely to be remixed in future to make them even better)
TreacherousCretins.mp3
ExtendedPlay.mp3
Also, from a technical standpoint, how do they propose to do this? Release a new version of Windows that automatically searches and destroys non-RIAA music files on bootup? FTP clients that refuse to download *.mp3? I think not.
Technically, this could be quite easy to do. Basically, the SDMI software would hook in at the object broker level and would register itself as the handler for MP3 objects. Under Windows the standard object broker is Microsoft's COM, and since the Win 9X version doesn't implement any form of security, it's quite easy for any piece of software to invisibly take over any object type and also for it to check if it's the registered handler for any type. I don't know if there's a formal name for the object broker on Macintosh but applications can register themselves as creators and editors for certain types. Under Linux, the nascent standard is CORBA (used by GNOME; I'm not sure about KDE or Netscape). While it would be easy under Linux to fool the SDMI software, I'm sure the RIAA can live without SDMI support for Linux.
Anyway, the SDMI software would check to make sure it owns the MP3 type whenever it's invoked and would refuse to launch if this condition were not met. It could also possibly arrange for some sort of notification if other software tried to register itself as the handler for MP3. Under Windows, this would be possible by sitting on top of the OLE DLL's, or Microsoft could quietly slipstream such behavior into their object broker.
While one could still have MP3 content on one's system, it would effectively be useless for the average Joe who's used to clicking and pointing at files. It would also render useless MP3 as a streaming format. I'm sure the average Slashdot user will have no problems in circumventing these mechanisms, but that's not whom the RIAA is concerned with.
I suggest that the community sets up a semi-public mp3 server, where people collect mass amounts of mp3s and store them for people to collect. There has to be some loophole that would remove liability for any one person. It would give us an easy way to collect music, and I way to make a statement that this bullshit that RIAA is trying to pull wont change the way we listen to music.
This is all true except for the television bit.
The movie industry DID take an enormous hit from television. Before TV, peole in the US watched on average a movie a week. Nowadays, they watch several movies a year.
Everyone should take a look at that Wave to Disk program in the parent to this msg!
I'm sure something like this would work for SDMI. As long as there's a player on the computer, someone could easily write a program that pretends it's a sound driver, and save the resulting digital signal to disk.
Thus, an SDMI piece could be converted to MP3, albeit only in real time.
If they license their API to companies that agree to exclude players from playing MP3, an established format, they'll do themselves a great marketing injustice.
Who wants to take up a new format if the old one works?? Sure, they can put all their artists behind it, but pirates will just use their format to make MP3s easily and destroy their whole scheme.
....will not go for it. Let's face it, the biggest appeal of MP3 is that it's free, and you can make perfect copies of songs that you can give out to whoever you like. If it were not for this, we would not have a large enough MP3 market to justify the production of the Rio, etc. I'm sure the average consumer that uses the RIO will see whatever new format these companies try to concoct, with their promises of better compression and very slight audio improvements, and say "But can I get copies of these songs they are offering without paying for them? No? Then why switch?"
jerky!
And this will halt the massive amount of trading of MP3s on IRC channels.....how? I didn't think so.
Everyone,
the riaa has been constantly pulling shit like this since mp3 became popular. I think it's time we all organize a huge boycott of the music industry. Here's how it maybe could work. First let's all dig up all of the shit the music industry has done to wrong both the consumer and the artists. Publish it and refuse to buy music in any form from the music labels clear their act up. However we should by all means support site such as mp3.com. Let's really let them know that were tired of their shit and we're not going to put up with it any more.
sorry i needed to edit before submitting
Everyone,
the riaa has been constantly pulling shit like this since mp3 became popular. I think it's time we all organize a huge boycott of the music industry. Here's how it maybe could work. First let's all dig up all of the shit the music industry has done to wrong both the consumer and the artists. Publish it and refuse to buy music in any form from the music labels until they clear their act up. However we should by all means support companies such as mp3.com and diamond too. Let's really let them know that were tired of their shit and we're not going to put up with it any more.
Won't they get arrested if they do that?
I thought murder was against the law.
It is understandable why the RIAA wants to stop the mp3 revolution. It is in their best interest to control the distribution of commercial music and keep money in the hands of their friends the major record labels.
However, their extremist plans of exterminating mp3s are more harmful to the artists and consumers -- they same people they rely on to make their money.
Not too long ago, artists were limited in their choices of music distribution. If you had some music you wanted others to hear, you could play shows or scrape together a couple hundred dollars to put out a tape/CD/7"/etc. Some musicians don't have the time or money to play shows or release recordings on your usual type of media. For these folks, mp3 is a boon. Musicians who, just a few years ago, couldn't scrape enough cash together to put out a tape or CD to sell around town can now make their music available to millions of surfers.
"Oh, but they won't get paid!!" Well, many of them don't WANT to get paid. As strange as it may seem, there are people who make music because they like to. I don't think the RIAA understands that. I'm rather surprised that "Artist" is included in the association's name. I suppose it refers to the Art of Making Money or the Art of Making Enemies.
The consumers would be on the losing end as well. By controling yet another method of music distribution, the RIAA is setting the stage for even more inflated prices.
While I don't think the RIAA will be successful with their SDMI project, the idea of it succeeding is a scary prospect for artists and fans alike. Their greed ultimately hurts the two things they need most.
"Life has improved immeasurably since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously." - Hunter S. Thompson
So long as they
a. Write good songs
b. Promote themselves
c. Make a product (CD/vinyl) available (via web/snail mail/whatever) at a VERY reasonable price. The cat's out of the bag. Anyone can burn cd's. Sell at 5 or 6 dollars a pop an WIN!
At this rate, you're already making FAR more per cd than you would through a big-name contract. You just don't get the (illusory) satisfaction of one big 'paycheck' up front.
**>>BELCH