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3dfx sues Creative Labs over Glide
MztrBlack was the first to write us with the news that 3dfx has officially sued Creative Labs for "breaching a licensing agreement" and infringing on 3dfx copyrights by using 3dfx Glide Source Code into Unified, the techno designed to run Glide-only stuff on Creative TNT and TNT2 based systems. This violates the license because it prohibits the use and modification of any 3dfx source code.
I don't like the fact that 3dfx is doing this, but I have to say I don't feel bad for Creative Labs because Creative Labs is going to key the wrapper so it will only work with their cards. That makes them no better than 3dfx. At least 3dfx put in the work to make glide in the first place.
I do hope Creative Labs wins in court though, then maybe other will be able to make wrappers without being threatened by 3dfx.
nVidia kicks ass for releasing open source drivers! I wish other companies would be that cool!
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient... - High Road to China
Well let me think.
NVidia has passed 3dfx as best gaming 3D card creator. NVidia has also released their first 3D drivers for Linux, slow but they are promising that it will be much faster when Xfree 4.0 arrives. 3dfx never released the source for glide.
I am a non-proud owner of a VooDoo 2 card, and this was the last hardware I *ever* bought from 3dfx. The V2 has brought me many hours of fun fragging in Quake and Quake 2, but now I had it.
So long and thanks for the fish 3dfx.
Look at the original design for the Space Shuttle's zero-G toilet. It uses suction to keep things moving in the appropriate direction, and rotating "slinger blades" to help fling the stuff to the container walls where (hopefully!) it'll stick until they dry it by venting the thing to vacuum.
Yep, in the Shuttle toilet, the shit is supposed to hit the fan.
-- Alastair
Here here
Glide API is proprietary? I doubt that Creative used anything but the API to write the wrapper, how could they have gotten or used the source anyway? The Glide API is availible to everyone and is NOT source code or illegal to implement on another platform, 3dfx is just trying to stop competition.
Sorry, but there are some things you can't agree to, even if you actually sign a contract (a crucial step that most shrinkwrap "agreements" conveniently neglect).
For example: You can't sign yourself into slavery. Slavery is illegal in this country, period. The slaver could wave your signed contract until doomsday; the court would still strike the term as illegal and unenforceable.
The problem here is that software vendors are trying to invent rights for themselves out of thin air (for no good reason that I can see), and get you to acknowledge and agree to observe those rights through the highly dubious mechanic of a shrinkwrap "agreement". It is therefore left to the courts to decide which invented rights are legitimate, and which are unenforceable under various laws. There's a lot of precedent to suggest that 3Dfx is going to lose.
As for the GPL, that's rather different. GPLed code is copyrighted. Thus, you don't have the right to make copies. However, if you fulfill the conditions stipulated in the GPL, then the GPL grants you a license, and you may make and distribute copies. If you don't fulfill those conditions (distributing copies without source code), then the GPL does not grant you permission to make copies, and you are therefore guilty of copyright infringement.
Note the subtle distinction:
(Which one is the product of the more mature mind is left as an exercise for the reader :-).)
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
It's high time we had more people blindly following rules, and less people judging a situation based on whether it's right or wrong and raising a protest if they don't agree.
Hey, have a nice one, guy.
Guess who's a major presence on the board to issue the certifications of compliance? Control is basically the same as ownership, partial control the same as partial ownership.
Apart from the fact that 3dfx has a lousy attitude, UltraTNT2 offers 32 bit and AGP texturing. The only bad thing is you can't play your old glide-only games anymore....
Creative tried fixing that so people wouldn't have to buy/keep an V2 along with their UltraTNT2 and that is the ONLY reason 3dfx are suing. A reason why a V2 next to your TNT2 is a bad thing you ask ?
1. Graphic Quality. Even if you don't own a TNT2 or Matrox, the difference between directly on the card or looped through the V2 is clearly visible at 1600x1200.
2. Heat. Everybody who felt how hot a V2 gets knows this is a real problem.
3. It's another unavailable PCI slot (or two).
So you can see, apart from idealogical reasons (API's should be public domain IMHO), unified whould acctually offer better quality over V2.
BTW the official URL to the article is http://www.3dfx.com/view.asp?IOID=248
I purchased a Creative Labs TNT a few days after NVIDIA released Mese/GLX drivers for Linux. I picked a TNT over the TNT2 because I have a P2-300, and there isn't that much difference in performance between the two on a "slower" system like mine. If you have a P2-450 or faster, you may want to go with a TNT2 instead.
I choose Creative labs because they use the NVIDIA reference design (most mfgs do, I think), which I think is important considering the current driver situation. Also, the Creative board is inexpensive, and it didn't come with a bunch of software that I didn't want.
I was using a RIVA 128 before, so upgrading was as simple as swapping boards and tweaking a few settings in XF86Config. I haven't gotten around to trying the Mesa/GLX drivers yet.
TedC
Both the Asus v3800 Deluxe and TVR have TV-in&out through SVHS and composite.
Grab the Asus Tv-Box with it (includes remote control) and voila !
Ya know, all the nVidia TNT2 Ultra buffs used to be Voodoo2 owners. Shame on you. Don't buy 3dfx's product because nVidia's chipset is better (?, maybe). But don't turn on 3dfx. It's in really bad taste.
One of my friends has a Diamond Viper 550 with TNT and is working very well on RedHat 6.0 with the X server from RedHat. Recently he downloaded the latest (and first) drivest from nVidia and the X server runs ok, except it doesn't like 11xx * 864 from some reason.
Florin Iucha
Aside from the legal issues of whether Creative was violating its license agreement for the API, 3dfx's lawsuit can also block further development or releases on the Unified drivers, as long as the case remains tied up in court. 3dfx doesn't need to win, they just need to stall, because by the time this issue is resolved, the next generation of 3D accelerators will be out.
But isn't the purpose of the Doomsday machine lost if you keep it a secret!
Agreed.
Where I work, we were offered an opportunity to obtain 3Dfx Voodoo3 boards for rock-bottom prices. I abstained from the offer for precisely the resaons you give. I regard 3Dfx's behavior as unacceptable, and I do not want my dollars used to support it.
I also am planning on getting an NVIDIA TNT2-based card, just as soon as I can find a card that has:
The closest I've found so far is the ASUS V3800-Ultra-Deluxe, but for some reason, ASUS gives you 3D glasses with that board (which I don't need), and sells DVD playback separately.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
This one is where Tom's Hardware rated the major 3D cards, including a few TNT2 cards, Voodoo3 and ATI
Not to mention the negative influence on current and potential customers. If customers become disenchanted with the product, the 3rd party support (game developers) will dry up. Then what is the market value of their proprietary API?
Must be time to short TDFX.
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." --Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)
The blades are also designed to break down feces from larger "chunks" so that they will stick easier to the sides of the container wall.
(This really is disgusting.)
I wonder what Daryll Strauss thinks of all this
suing being done by 3DFX?
Matrox or Riva based cards are of much higher quality, have OPEN drivers available and support open rather than proprietary APIs. I can't see why anyone would want to buy or write for 3DFX based cards under those circumstances. Maybe 3DFX should spend less time suing people and making TV commercials and more time improving their hardware.
Get one with a LCD port. Its on all the ASUS3800's and on the Leadtek PRO's.
in the $200 range, both have TV-Out, The 3800 has Video Capture, but the 320IIPro has some MPEG hardware(I think.)
I've been reading the thread, and while I am not a fan of 3dfx, and think the proprietary glide API is evil to have around, I think 3dfx is justified this time around... If Creative violated an NDA in the creation of its wrappers, then it is just plain wrong... I do not agree with 3dfx chasing after people who make glide wrappers without any NDA materials, and I think glide should be abolished and prefer nVidia now, but this time around Creative may have done something wrong, and people should not let the fact that glide is bad get in the way of the judgement of whether this is justified.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The question isn't whether it is illegal to implement GLide on other chip sets. (That was the question with the glide wrapper). Rather Creative used the glide source that was given to them to build voodoo and voodoo 2 boards. Creative breached the license agreement and developed the unified driver.
-Reid
I got that quote from www.duh-2000.com, which
claims the original quote came from a Vanity
Fair interview, so it sounds like a serious
statement that probably came out wrong in
the brevity of the interview.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
I guess I'll have to find one myself...Sigh.
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.
How about a link to a story or article or such talking about this?
3DFX has a stick up their bum because they think that if people write wrappers to allow Glide programs to run on other cards, they won't have to buy Voodoo's any more. They are misguided in this analysis. In fact, they should encourage people to write wrappers, even help them. That way, they can claim that the only way to get the best, wrapperless performance, is to run on a genuine Voodoo. But alas, their PHB's have prevailed and they are now well advanced in the process of alientating their former most loyal supporters.
BUY RIVA (good corporate citizens, and besides, TNT kicks butt)
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
First they take down the little guys trying to make glide wrappers, and now this. I used to like 3dfx, but they need to get their act together. Do we have a link to this story?
"Please don't sigh like that, maam"
I love playing zelda64 at 800x600 on my computer. Goldeneye is amazing too.
unfortunately, ultraHLE a glide only app. so, i'll be stuck with 3dfx for a bit longer.
I'm sure that's incorrect. There are lots of folk who protect APIs ... as trade secrets, as copyrighted information, and so on. Even as parts of patents. (Whoops, the gazintas and gazoutas of this code match the description in that patent, it infringes, yowp!)
Whether 3dfx has a real case here is, as you noted, a different issue.
- Jojo
(Found this one on bluesnews). html
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990611/ca_3dfx_fi_1
/Andreas
We're talking about 3dfx's revenue here. 3dfx probably makes less than 1% of its profits by selling video cards to CAD users. Almost all of its sales are to gamers.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/news.shtml#2080
not a very informative one, though..
So if nobody uses GLIDE, and everybody uses OpenGL instead, why is Creative spending so much time writing GLIDE wrappers?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
http://fam ulus.msnbc.com/famuluscom/pr-newswire06-11-094630. asp?sym=TDFX
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
the only hardware accelerated implementations that depend on glide are the 3dfx implementations. I am very happy with my tnt. no glide for me.
M$ doesn't control OpenGL. so there is a toolkit away from M$. Writing a diffrent glide implemantation for each card is just as hard as writing register level OpenGL implementations for each card. Besides the windows OpenGL versions of glide are specific to each card.
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
I suppose [3dfx|3Dfx]'s legal dept. has gotten tired of running around threatening high school students with suits for writing Glide wrappers.
Having warmed up, I suppose they think it's time to graduate to the big leagues and threaten someone who can fight back.
When was the cool, underdog 3dfx replaced with this corporate nightmare? *sigh*
... the operative word being 3Dfx. OpenGL for other cards does of course not "depend on Glide", which seems to indicate that no proper native OpenGL drivers exist for 3Dfx.
I can remember a not too long time ago when 3Dfx was a small company with killer products.
Now, they are BIG and looking to take over a smaller company S3, they have sued Nvidia and finally suing Creative Labs.
Talk about outgrowing! If it wasn't for Creative Labs, 3Dfx wouldn't have had the same market penetration.
Hope they lose and Creative countersues for damages and stuff. I will not ever own a 3Dfx card again!
OpenGL rules, Carmack has finally won!
Someone already commented that 3DFx is losing, so they're holding onto their closed API as a last resort.
What I think is they are losing the 3D battle BECAUSE they have a closed API.
Put simply, they got lazy. They thought no one could touch them and their API. So their hardware development suffered.
and will buy another, PCI one soon.
Even the cheap TNT works beautifully on my
k6-2/400 (60 f/s with Forsaken). Planning to
use the PCI one for my older k6/200.
I have not tried the Linux drivers yet, but the mesa lists TNT and TNT2 as supported so I don't
expect any problems.
Voodoo is just that - voodoo with a version number
Stefan Bo,
not an AC.
Thankfully now that nvidia has released the drivers for linux, I dont have to go with a 3dfx product. This was a seriously grating issue at the time for me. I have a TNT card now. My problem was, do I sit with a tnt card and never have OGL or do I go with 3dfx and have good graphics but support a lame proprietary API? Sort of a catch 22 that I don't have to worry about now. Viva nvidia ;)
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
I've been looking at this card too. You might want to take a look at The Viper 770. it has MPEG2 and TV-out.
I'm Torn between the G400MAx and TNT2 Ultra. Anyone want enlighten me as to which one I should buy? What Matrox doing in light of Nivdia Releasing all of it programing specs??
Do not read this
Couldn't agree more. Ever since nVidia open sourced their drivers, I went right out and bought a RIVA TNT. I even filled out the warranty form and was proud to put Linux as my OS on the form. Let those companies that have the balls and intelligence to see the light know that you support them.
As if open source TNT drivers weren't enough to sway my TNT2 vs. V3 decision, 3dfx has decided to make it even easier. I was still thinking about getting a V3, because the linux drivers will be faster until XFree86 4.0, however this was just too much. I'll be buying a TNT2, and bothering any companies which release Glide only games.
3dfx just keeps limiting the availability of their own technology. Glide wrappers aren't made to cut into 3dfx's profits, but to enable other users to use the cool stuff glide has to offer, but using their own cards to do so.
I can understand that they want to push their own hardware, but in consequence, they are limiting the market acceptance of their own technology
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
>As an aside, does anyone have any recommendations for TNT or TNT2 based cards they have working under Linux, and if so, what issues (if any) did you have?
Sure do! I got a Diamond Viper 770 Ultra (TNT2) a couple weeks ago and it really shines. (running a Creative Labs V2 before and a Riva 128 before that). Linux support still has a way to go, but is shaping up nicely. I did just get the new Mesa/GLX stuff and the 3D is pretty slow (not really playable in q3 but ok for q2) but the 2d is very strong. (I like being able to finally drag and resize windows at 1024x768).
In windows the card performs exceptionally well in 3D and I hope this is a good indication of how it will fare once Linux support matures.
I'll agree that in the past 3dfx threatening people who dodn't nesscesearily break the rules pissed me off a little, but lacking a link to the story and just going by the /. post, I have to side with them here. Creative Labs apperantly broke the rules. This doesn't mean I like the rules or even agree with them, but a company the size of creative sure as hell had to go into this with their eyes wide open. They broke the rules and got caught. They lose. Game over.
Again i'm just going by the posted story here, but if it's accurate, I have no argument with 3dfx over this issue.
/dev
"There's no secret. You just press the accelerator to the floor and keep turning left." -- Bill Vukovich
Personally, I own a Voodoo3 3000, and I get framrates EXCEEDING 140 Fps in halflife network games, I'm not going to sit here and argue the power of a Voodoo3 compared to a TNT2, They are both sweet cards, However, I am going to tell you people to stop reading the reviews (all they seem to care about is 32-bit graphics, and really, Who cares?) and bench the cards yourself. I'm sure most of you can't afford to pick up one of each, but you have a friend.... bench them against eachother. I have, The voodoo3 is better at some games (like halflife) and the TNT2 excells at others...
3DFx has fought it's way up in the Hardware business, and have delivered amazing 3D preformance to my machine for a few years now, The fact that a corporate powerhouse like Creative labs is ripping off their hard work disgusts me, and I hope they learn a leason after 3Dfx wins this lawsuit.
Everybody in here is trying to make it seem like 3Dfx is the larger, more established company.. I think it's time to see the facts.
Today, the best performing TNT2 card, out of the box, is the Hercules Dynamite TNT2Ultra. It is manufacturer-guaranteed to run at 175MHz core setting. Every other TNT2Ultra being manufactured today is only guaranteed to 150.
Even the Hercules TNT2 standard is clocked at 143, which is close to the speed everyone else is running ultras.
Visit some of the gaming sites, including AnandTech and Sharky Extreme, to see reviews of this and other cards.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
Ummm, up until a few months ago, there WERE a dozen 3dfx card makers. It was another foolish business decision on their part to bring that operation in-house.
/.? It would be quite amusing to be a fly on the wall as this thread was presented to the chief executive.
I wonder if anyone at 3dfx reads
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
I might be mistaken, but I think I saw some I2C stuff going into the BTTV code in 2.3.6, so it may not be too long before it does work...
I think you'll find that they're protecting a particular implementation of an API, as opposed to the API itself.
About the only way I can think of to protect an API is to trademark the function calls...;)
Did you never stop to think that with Mesa, the free software community is in a good position to embrace-and-extend OpenGL?
A parking lot is a physical object. An API is not. If you want a comparison with "old" technology, the "interface" you use to drive a car would be more appropriate. Sure, the steering wheel and pedals may by patented (specific implementation) but the interface itself is not. That's all an API is, an interface on how two entities communicate.
Should API's be protectable like this? I don't think so. Should specific implementations? Sure, if you are going to be a closed source company I don't see anything wrong with protecting your specific implementation. If Creative used 3Dfx's source code (specific implimentation) in their drivers and their agreement prohibited them from doing so, then I think they should be prosecuted. However, if they simply looked at the API (header files will do I'm sure) and wrote their own implementation I don't think they should be held liable at all.
I guess it depends on if you are an open source advocate or not. If you believe that ideas such as API's or algorithms should be "ownable" or if ownership should be limited to physical items and specific implementations of general ideas.
So, in response to your question "How is it that you can't believe 3dfx is dictating how THEIR api is used." my response is:
Because I don't believe API's are property that should be protected under the law. If you're question was concerning their specific implementation of the API, then I would probably agree with you.
Changing my car example above, it's more like the "API" or interface between the wheels and the car. You're saying that the API or interface between those two components is protected. You're saying that someone can not make a new wheel that might perform better simply by putting the appropriate number of holes in the right spots for the lug nuts (following the API specs). That's rediculous.
API's are nothing like parking lots.
I hate Creative Labs.
Sad but true. If I'm wrong, and there is a GL
driver for say the i740, G200, or TNT, send email
to mark@knm.org
If it doesn't work on Linux, it doesn't matter.
Please keep this in mind. Windows-only people
shouldn't even be here.
Mark
I disremember the link (I think it was on SharkyExtreme), but I read an interesting article recently on the engineering behind the VooDoo series products. How there hasn't been any innovation from 3Dfx since the original VooDoo chipset was introduced, just refinements.
Me, myself and I are going to stick with nVidia products (well, for the time being at least).
James
Last I heard is that if you didn't have a 3DFX card, you wouldnt see any of the awesome 3D effects and lighting in DIABLO 2, which is bound to be one of the years biggest sellers. 3dfx has/had some exclusive contracts with the big guys to only support their boards. I know it sucks, but daaaaaaaaaaah.
Im sure Blizzard will release an 'update' that offers Direct3D support, but like a few months off...
Sure we can just NOT buy the game, but who in their right mind WOULNDT buy this game? (well, considering if you're one of the billion who bought the first one and loved it to death.)
I'm sure glad I'm using a card with an
nVidia chip, that's for sure... I knew
there as something fishy with 3dfx. It's
funny how they learned their business
practices right from M$: Don't worry about
making better products, just push proprietary
formats to the users and then whine about
them.
I'm glad that nVidia is so gung-ho about
Linux drivers. That day the drivers were
released I downloaded the file, linked
the correct libGL and copied over the
XF86_SVGA, and in about ten minutes flat
I had Quake III up and running in 800x600
with full lighting and texturing.
Man, I love it.
-Mike -- OpenGL developer who can finally
use his home Linux box!
--- witty signature
The statement "3DFX's cards suck" is absolutely ludicrous. I do not agree with what they are doing here, but I own a Voodoo 3, and it is incredible. I play Tribes, and Quake 3 (beta) at 1024x768 and get a spectular 60 - 80 fps.
Their technology is good, they just need to make it better, and keep up with the competition. To say they "suck" though is just an ignorant statement (IMHO).
Heh, i remember reading that quote somewhere, the first time i almost shit myself it was so funny =)
"Computers will never truly be free until the last windows user is strangled with the entrails of the last mac user."
Oh please, whats next not being able to have sex with the dead?
Geeze you guys got spirit, but when it comes down to the rights to company owned technology you guys go nuts. If someone came out with a Quad Twixel Engine, would you slam Nvidia for trying to sue that company? Probably so, cause its the fastest product that gets your respect, anything slower and you sandblast it with Cry Baby rants.
3dfx is a nice card, not the best one out there, they own the technology and they should have the god given right to sue or slap an injunction anyone to infringes upon it. If there were a dozxen 3dfx card makers out there, this probably wouldnt matter but since STB is the only game in town for these cards, 3dfx has no choice but to protect their technology. To not do so would mean a SEVERE downfall for the company.
Dont kick the lion in the nuts for eating a antelope, he was only trying to keep his pride alive.
Some of us have no choice to but to use Voodoo cards. Show me a card that can do what a voodoo and my ATI All in wonder pro can do. I use my Pro to watch cable TV and VCR tapes in linux, and my voodoo for Quake 2 in Linux. Show me an nvidia or other competitor to 3dfx that has an OpenGL solution with a built in TV tuner that works in linux but in a single daughterboard solution...Until then I'll have to stick to my 2 cards...Voodoo and All in wonder Pro until Nvidia makes a TNT card with all the features I need.
If it doesn't suppport q3 at the highest possible
performance level, then it isn't "the same thing"
is it..
Quake 3, Diablo2 are just two examples of games
that will ONLY work with mesaGL or some other GL
driver.
This basically means VooDoo1-3.
If I'm wrong, and there's a way to use a TNT for
example with Linux' Q3test, please send mail to
mark@knm.org
Why even discuss this on Slashdot? It's a 'doze
only game, isn't it?
actually your wrong, i have a creative tnt2 ultra and its running at 190... came at 182 and can be overclocked over 200..
Glide doesn't matter?
heh.
While we may not be the biggest community in the gaming market, the descent community has been virtualy held hostage to 3dfx because the only accelerated version of descent 1 or 2 was for glide. So if you wanted a pretty game, you had to go 3dfx.
glide and it's future matters to us (though perhaps not for very much longer.. the source for d1 was released and d2 will be soon)
Welcome to hell. I'm your friendly local guide.
3dfx has a link on their homepage to Linux drivers, which forwards one to Daryll's 3dfx page (Daryll is a volunteer who has made heroic efforts to get 3dfx hardware running under Linux, sometimes with 3dfx's support, sometimes not). 3dfx is clearly representing themselves on their homepage as supporting, at least marginally, Linux, and seem happy to ride on Daryll's coattails and take credit for supporting the Linux community. Buy any reasonable definition this makes them, at least periferally, a member of the community. A member which until fairly recently enjoyed a pretty good reputation and a lot of goodwill. They have squandered this, and are now behaving poorly, and it behooves us to make this point clear to them in the one way they are sure to understand: with our purchasing dollars.
There's nothing impressive about it. They are, or at least represent themselves as, a member of our community, in the hopes we'll buy their stuff. If this is misrepresentation, shame on them. If not, shame on them for being such poor citizens of the community. Either way, I am not buying any more of their stuff, and I encourage others who feel likewise to do the same.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
|Please keep this in mind. Windows-only people
/. is an open forum, anyone running windows has every right to be here as well.. just cuz you might not agree on their os choice doesnt mean they might not like to keep up with whats going on in the 'geek world'.. /. isnt exclusive to linux users, or users of the various unices even. its for anyone who's curious..
/.ers associate anyone who uses a MS product as 'the enemy)
|shouldn't even be here.
and why shouldnt they?
(I know its offtopic, but I tire of how
"Short, tall, fat, skinny, from the highest king to the lowest man, everyone uses the potty." - Brak
It doesn't matter what the license states, the license cannot dictate that you can't write a wrapper. No license can have a bearing on another piece of software like this unless they used the code from the SDK in their wrapper. This is as ridiculous as companies suing because someone wrote an emulator for their system. The IP laws in America are hopelessly out of date and just don't apply to new technology the way they should. However, these companies use this bullshit to their advantage in courts and the like. Really doesn't matter though, because if people want something, they will get it, even if the whole wrapper deal has to be an underground process like the warez scene.
I think that it is safe to assume this is just more evidence that 3dfx tries to be anti-competitive. I hope Creative sues them back, because it seems very unlikely that they violated a liscenseing agreement knowing that the 3dfx lawyers are so damned trigger-happy. This is most likely just another attempt by 3dfx to try and scare other people away from developing glide wrappers.
I'm pretty sure the WINE developers haven't seen the Windows source code, but they seem to have done all right. The point being that original source code is not necessary to write your own version of an API.
So does 3dfx have any proof that Creative abused their access to the Glide code? Or are they just slinging FUD? It seems to me that if 3dfx is going to haul Creative into court, they're gonna need more than accusations... unless they're trying to outdo M$ for Most Inept Performance in a Courtroom. ;)
--
Matrox will be releasing a binary glx driver, based on the work of the people who made the OSS g200 driver. This driver will utilize the "warp engine", so it should be much much faster than the current one. And it will probably support the G400. Note, this is not a liscence violation, since the origional was released under the X liscence, so it could be included in X.
I heard all of this from the g200-dev mailing list. Things might have changed now.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I agree, I think 3dfx could have a chance if they pull there heads out of there asses, but the v3 isn't any more powerfull then the TNT2, and I can only imagen what nVidia's chips will be able to do once the come out with really new ones (actualy, the TNT2 is what the TNT would have been if they wouldn't have had problems with the .25 micron fab process.). and it dosnt' even supprot true color rendering.
:)
if it hadn't been for Microsoft's Direct X, and later open GL there's a good chance that 3dfx could have become the next intel, in every PC, beacuse the only API that people would use would be Glide... It was pretty slick of them, I think, but I think microsoft saw it comming (and glide worked in dos, and MS wanted to kill dos support)
well I guess microsoft is good for *somthing*
---------------
Chad Okere
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
If a company copyrights something and then DOESN'T sue others for infringing on this copyright, they risk losing the copyright. In the US, companies have to *defend* their inventions if they don't want to see the copyright get repealed.
If they copyright something and Creative violates this copyright, they can LOSE the copyright for not taking steps to defend it.
First of all. "Win32 native games" having a majority in Direct3D doesn't constitute winning a market. The 3d acceloration market extends beyond games, and certainly beyond Windows.
Consider CAD and modelling software. Most CAD software is either in Unix/X or Windows NT, and almost none of it uses Direct3D. The high-end CAD software is fairly consistantly OpenGL-based, Windows CAD software included. Go find a few modellers for ray tracing: OpenGL.
In short, there's more to life than fun and games, and there is certainly more to life than Windows programs.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
That's a pretty uninformed statement. the Voodoo 3 is almost on par with the tnt2, it's not as if 3dfx is being blown out of the water.
Of course 3dfx wants to protect their proprietary api. It is, after all, their property.
-Reid
How about because Glide is an API and its ridiculous to allow copyrights on API's ?
Another good 2-slot combo (since the V2 takes a PCI slot, it's even) is a TNT(2) or G200 with a bt848/878/879 board like a Hauppauge WinTV, which interoperates with any video card you might grab in the future (it uses PCI and DGA to blast the TV onto the video card). That'll give you a video solution that is fully Free Software.
Thanks to the team working on Video4linux, the bt848 has been well supported for some time (unlike ATI boards), and is in kernel 2.2. And to Matrox for releasing enough of the G200 specs to make a driver, and to Nvidia for making a driver and releasing it with readable source.
Someone told me (sorry, but I don't know of any URL to verify this at) that, because of the fact that so many people are buying non-3dfx cards, and that the TNT is such a better chip than the VD series, that they changed their stance on this. I certainly hope so, else I'll have to keep playing the first one over and over and over and over . . . hey wait a minute, I still do, hehe :)
--DrH, the Sandwich with the Ph.D.
There is one thing that I think a *lot* of people who do hardware comparisons are missing: date of release.
When the Voodoo3 was *on the shelves*, the TNT2 Ultra was still under wraps. Yeah, the Voodoo3 might be not as feature-rich on the capabilities side, but in mid-April, were there better options if you wanted ass-hauling 3D/2D video? No.
Guess what? The K7-550 is almost undoubtably going to be faster than a P-III 550! But I needed a fast, non-overclocked PC *last week*, not next week. Guess what I bought?
How many FPS could your Voodoo3 3000 crank out in 16-bit color back in mid-April? Lots. A TNT-2 Ultra? Effectivly zero.
Availability matters.
One reason why the Voodoo3 lacks certain features is because 3DFX wanted to be quick to the market. Now, don't get me confused with a "3DFX IS GOD!!!!!!!!!" zealot. I think the Ultra2 rips some serious ass, and the competition will definitely make the next generation of cards that much more bitchin'. Just remember that time-to-market is a feature, too.
If you want to use OGL on your computer and do all the stuff the All In Wonder Pro does, get an All In Wonder 128. 8-} That'll do the same as you had before, plus outperform the Voodoo1, and does 32 bit color, plus a lot of other stuff. I think the G200 marvel has all or most of that too, but I'm not sure.
Could Creative Labs, after going to all the trouble of only letting CL (Creative Labs) video card owners (and only most of them at that) have access to Unified, have been so stupid as to actually use code from the Glide SDK? If so, then they're really dumb, because even _I_ knew that 3dfx would bust their butt for it after what they did to all those other wrappers!
As for 3dfx, they should quit wasting their money protecting Glide and start making better cards! _NOBODY_ uses Glide in new games anymore because not even a majority of people are buying 3dfx cards these days (meaning that companies who want to make the most money off of a game will want to use OpenGL or Direct3D to support as many people as possible - something Epic learned the hard way with Unreal)
I can only hope that 3dfx will spread itself so thin financially by slapping stupid lawsuits on everyone that it will go under (and if that doesn't do it, then hopefully they'll get so mired in legal battles that they won't have time to make new, GOOD hardware) The era of being anal about hardware and proprietary software designed for it is OVER, and Linux (or those who use it actually) is one of the main things we have to thank for discouraging such ridiculous practices!
If you are someone who works for a company that designs computer hardware, PLEASE get the message that these days people are NOT going to use your hardware unless you make a better product! If you're first in a market, use that to your advantage to develop new, improved products before anyone else even makes one to compete with your original - just DON'T try to use proprietary crap and DON'T deny access to important info that software developers need to create software that uses your product! Such practices are just not going to cut it anymore, and I for one am going to do all I can to make sure of that!
(sorry for all the ranting - I'm just in that kind of a mood today =)
Later,
HunterZ
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
my funky new tnt2 arrived friday :)
:)
decided to get it the day before open source linux drivers were announced.. was just the icing on the cake
smash
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I am probably not up to date in this issue, have no idea about the specifics but from what I can ascertain from here I'd say 3dfx is in the right and Creative Labs is swappin' some source. May they be stabbed many times with pointy sticks.
suddenly I feel very tired
Posted by ^ServO^:
I use both regularly. Better keep an eye on me, I might be evil.
There's supposedly a version of the S320 II that uses SDRAM instead of SGRAM, though I've never seen it for sale. In any case, my SGRAM version runs fine with the standard nVidia drivers, so no worries there. It's a great card; the only nitpick I have is that it didn't come with any bundled games... :)
--
The courts have upheld the shrinkwrap license agreements before. Let's consider why this is really a Good Thing(tm).
Compare software to a videotape of a movie. At the beginning of the movie is the infamous "FBI Warning" screen, that states that you are not permitted to show the movie publicly or for profit. This is basically the same as a shrinkwrap license agreement. Mr Lucas invested a lot of time and money into making the film you are watching, and he has a right to say whether or not you are allowed to make a profit off his movie. Shrinkwrap licenses take the same approach to controlling who makes a profit from someone elses code.
As much as we all like the open source vs evil empire rhetoric, 3DFX has the legal high ground here IMHO. 3Dfx wrote a license agreement, Creative violated it. Simple. As a (moderately famous) law professor said, "If you have the law on your side, pound on the law. If you have the facts on your side, pound on the facts. If you haven't got the law or the facts, pound on the table." Right now, slashdot is pounding on the table, and we sound pretty foolish doing it.
0 1 - just my two bits
No, it's more like Ford saying only their cars can have a steering wheel, gas peddle on the right, brake on the left (or center w/ clutch on left). The rest will have to use levers, tillers, etc...
Or, for example, only AT&T phones can have RJ11 (or similar), get a new phone, put in a new jack, don't like it? Too bad!
Perhaps you'd like auto manufacturers to use custom bolt heads and only they can make the custom sockets for them (and only their dealers can buy them). Need an oil change? See your dealer and bend over.
3dfx may or may not be able to pull this off legally, but legal doesn't mean moral and ethical. If more people were concerned about that, and shunned corperates that were not ethical and moral, the world would be a better place to live.
3dfx probably needs AGP 4x, faster and 32-bit rendering, geometric processing on-chip to counter NV10 from nVidia, finally a decent hardware scaler (like ATI has one on their cheap 60 USD Rage Pro) so I can watch DVD with less than 50% CPU usage, plus optimized not just decent drivers for XFree, and Windoze 9X and NT/2000.
Since that is not going to happen, my V2 was probably the last card I bought from 3dfx. Who cares if they sue people, either they buy all the knowledge like MS does all the time or they are a takeover candidate themselves next year.
relax
--se
Beep, wrong.
Most (win32 native) games are in Direct3d nowadays.
How is it that you can't believe 3dfx is dictating how THEIR api is used. It's the same as a parking lot owner. People pay to use the lot, and it can be closed to customers whenever the owner pleases.
-Reid
I don't think the readers of Slashdot are going to jump onto the latest, greatest, fastest, flashiest, etc. If we're rabid about anything, it's openness. If a card is a little slow, but offers full source to their driver and all the specs any developer could want, /. will love them. However, the fastest, greatest, most wonderful card in the world in nothing short of evil to /. if the specs are confidential. Look at the Diamond fiasco from a couple years ago, or the quick reversal of /.'s opinion on Nvidia after they released their sources.
/. is reacting poorly to 3dfx's lawsuit because they are suing Creative over Intellectual Property. If 3dfx would open up their Glide interface (which would preclude this lawsuit), we'd be much happier.
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
I hate to say it, but don't forget about DirectX. I dislike MS as much as the next guy, but I'd guess that DirectX's penetration among game developers is much higher than OpenGL's.
As for competing on the merits of their products... fuhgeddaboudit. While their newest cards carry on their tradition of fast fill rates, visual quality isn't as good as much of the competition, and their "you don't really need 32-bit rendering" is killing them. (In the press, anyway. I haven't seen their sales figures recently.)
Is there nobody here who sees the value in attempting to defend the only 3D API that Microsoft doesn't have their fingers in?
OpenGL is dandy, but MS owns part of it. And so it's part of their embrace-and-extend strategy, definitionally.
Glide, although proprietary, is owned and defended by a company that's traditionally Linux-positive, and yet all you OpenSourceZealots are suddenly thinking they're the antichrist for trying to hold the line against other companies trying to appropriate their technologies.
Take a couple steps backward and see the big picture. If this were Netscape, you'd all be cheering; Slashdot loves the underdog. But since 3Dfx is currently the top of the heap, that same MS/RedHat-style bashing has to go on. Sigh.
Well, if they could back up the talk of having the best chips onthe market, they wouldn't have to hide behind their API and depend on it so damn much. If their chips were so incredibly good, they could care less about who tries to copy their API. Granted, if CL or nVidia did use the Glide SDK improperly, then yes, they're in for a tough time. But if they did their product legally, then 3dfx is just wasting money that could be much better spent on hardware design instead of throwing more shit on their original vd1 chip design (wait a minute, isn't that like Windows98 and DOS? *boggle*)
--DrH, the Sandwich with the Ph.D.
What battle has 3dfx lost to OpenGL? The way I see it, GLide doesn't compete directly with OpenGL. OpenGL is a higher level API, while GLide is intended to be closer to the hardware. Unfortunately, 3dfx hasn't been paying enough attention to OpenGL, and is now lagging behind nVidia, among others.
But don't loose sight of the issue here: 3dfx alleges that Creative violated the license by using 3dfx code. They aren't suing because they made a GLide wrapper. I don't think all the other 'high school kid' suits were expressly over the existance of GLide wrappers. All of these lawsuits involve license violations. If the defendants didn't want to be sued, they should not have accepted the license agreement.
3dfx is not dictating how the GLide API may be used.
Keep up the 3dfx bashing guys. 3dfx is the only company that is either shipping or helping other people ship drivers for their hardware *right now* for DOS/Win/Mac/Linux/BeOS, etc. Hopefully, nVidia's foray into source code releases will push 3dfx to do the same.
I *still* trust 3dfx, because they actually deliver what they say they will, unlike nVidia's Microsoftian 'hype-and-switch' methods..
So there.
actualy Unreal's software rendering was pretty slick, as I recall. it ran in 640x480 on my p200mmx at abotu 10-15 fps.
it wasn't beautifull, but it was playable
---------------
Chad Okere
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
AFAIK, nVidia did not release specs, just source written by someone who had specs, which is almost as good. Also afaik, Matrox is not planning on releasing ANY specs for G400 any time particularly soon.
http://www.betanews.com/article.php3?sid=story3755 ef24edc6b
----------
"They misunderestimated me." --George W Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
I can't believe people are complaining because 3dfx is enforcing its license contracts.
How would those people feel if some big corporation violated the terms of the GPL for its own profit?
The reason the rules work is that everyone is bound by them.
The "binary-only glx driver" was really just the speculation of some people a little too pro-free-software for their own good. Matrox hasn't said anything to that effect, though they won't give the specs, so it'd have to be binary to use WARP. Seems like binary microcode (not the same as a binary driver) is the most likely release, but that's just me guessing too :)
I'm amazed how people will go on and on about how one company is more evil than the other, or rip on "business practices." I got news for you: companies are here for one reason only -- to make money!
Switch 3dfx and Nvidia and I'm sure everyone would turn on Nvidia. Switch Microsoft and Redhat and people would tear Redhat apart (wait, they already are!).
It doesn't make sense to associate ethics are any philosophical crap with companies. They make money, plain and simple. There's no other reason for a company to be founded.
* Ken Olsen over at DEC was a ripe bastard! So what?
* Leland (as in where Stanford is): Know who Leland was? He bribed the goverment for control of the railroads. Now we have Stanford.
* Carnegie Mellon: Yep, that's right, thanks to an insanely rich steel mogul.
Do I really need to go on? If you want to compare companies, and "take your business elsewhere," compare their products. Don't be so close minded that you won't use a product just because you don't like who is selling it.
So, back to Microsoft, bash them not for business practices. You'd do the same in that situation. We do have reason do find fault with their software. People have know that for years. Recently though people have felt the need to make the attack personal and vicious. What good does that do us?
So, before everyone goes off and says 3dfx sux and Nvidia rulez, please tell us why. For example, 3dfx makes a great card that does X trig-flops/sec and has a whiz-bang ciruclo-flipper.
I guess since they can't compete with great
hardware anymore now they are just going to try to
protect their proprietary API.
It could have been a desk or table fan, not necessarily a ceiling fan. I imagine a person was using the cooling, soothing power of a fan to dry themselves after a particularly hot day perhaps and ... well ... he/she had a sudden urge and the rest is history.
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.
Look - 3dfx is not a member of the open source community.
I'll buy that. 3dfx is behaving as a poor citizen of the community PERIOD.
That's how I see 3Dfx over this issue. I really wish they would pull the broomstick out of their bum and realize that they have already lost the battle with OpenGL.
Back when 3Dfx was the only 3D accelerator in town, using GLIDE exclusively made sense. Now it's suicidal. If you're starting work on a new game, you use OpenGL. Period. It's cross-platform, and the performance is good and getting better thanks to everybody fighting over Quake frame rates.
I also believe that 3Dfx has no legitimate right to dictate how the GLIDE API may be used. That's a bit like Dennis Ritchie announcing that the C programming language can only be used on AT&T-built computers.
3Dfx should just drop this issue and compete on the merits of their products.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
From my understanding of what Unified does, it is *NOT* Yet Another Glide Library, but instead merely maps the calls that a game would send to Glide into calls to Direct3d. This type of interface can be derived from the docs of the sdk without having the sdk itself, which implies a cleanroom implementation and absolutely no modification to the Glide SDK itself. (The Unified FAQ is located at http://www.soundblaster.co m/hotgraphics/unified/faq.html for those interested.)
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
I know this is an old thread and you probably won't read this, but I just noticed. That message was old even when I posted last time. Update is that they're working with two non-Matrox (you didn't mean NVidia, did you?) community developers and that nothing has been said yet officially. The two guys seem to be leaning towards microcode (everyone seems to be ignoring that email)
Because now we have somebody that can take this to court and get it resolved once and for all.
It's just a crying shame to me for the company to go from having, bar none, the best 3d accelerators on the market to having to hide behind their propriatary API to keep their edge. They've claimed this entire time they have the best cards on the market -- why do they have to sue everyone else to prove this? Sorry, but when I do finally upgrade from my Matrox Mystique 220, I'm buying a TNT card, nor am I putting VooDoo cards in any machines I build for people.
--DrH, the Sandwich with the Ph.D.
That's the memory clock. There are two different clock speeds we're discussing. Core + memory. The notation for the C/L Ultra (out of the box) is like this: 150/183: 150 MHz core, 183 MHz memory. The notation for the Hercules Ultra (out of the box) is: 175/200.
If you've successfully overclocked your memory to 200, that's great. But your core speed is what?
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
3dfx made GLide. they can do whatever they want with it. Creative can't use it. Plain and simple. We shouldn't evn be discussing this!!!!!
I think this brings up an intresting point, without glide, 3dfx has nothing (other than name recognition and mindshare) there not any better then Matrox or ATI, second string to nVidia and maybe s3.
(actualy matrox and ATI support 32bit color, so they may actualy be worse)
Recently, 3dfx mirged with STB, witch makes OEM cards, and cut off the suply of chips to Card Makers like Dimond, and Creative (and every one else). This reeally fucked everyone over...
I personaly think Creative did this just to screw 3dfx, I don't think glide really matters that much anymore, and I'd be willing to bet that Creative did this just to pissoff 3dfx...
---------------
Chad Okere
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Ugh. I hate it when people throw out phrases like like this because they sound impressive.
Look - 3dfx is not a member of the open source community. The hardware is proprietary, the API (GLide) is proprietary, and the SDK is released under a license which does not permit you to modify and redistribute the code under any circumstances.
If you want to criticize 3dfx, fine, but they've never had any pretentions to open-sourcing their SDK, to my knowledge, and shouldn't be faulted for that.
You don't lose copyright protection by postponing or eschewing legal action against infringing materials, but you can lose trademark rights if you do not actively defend them.
Thanks for the sounds of reason...
A while back we heard that 3DFX were throwing
lawyers at nVidia -- any news on this front??
oh, and how many fronts are 3DFX wagin war on,
and how many fronts too many is that???
Although it is legally correct that 3dfx is taking action to defend their copyright, their stance is in stark contrast to nVidia and Creative Labs, among others, who seem to have recognised the benefits of working with the open-source community rather than against it. In nVidia's case they release and support Xservers optimised for their graphics cards. In Creative Labs' case, in January 1999 they announced plans to release Linux drivers for most of their hardware.
Creative's not stupid... Unified is such a big obvious target that I think it's safe to bet that it has been developed clean-room.
I keep seeing a lot of "Glide is irrelevant because everyone's coding to OpenGL now" posts.
Umn, folks, the Quake GL-miniport, Mesa on Linux, basically _all_ of the hardware-accelerated OpenGL implementations _depend_ on Glide for their 3Dfx support.
This is a good thing, because there'd otherwise have to be individual register-level versions of, say, Mesa, for each new 3Dfx card that came out. Glide is a nice thin API layer insulating the hardware details of the card from the actual 3D toolkit being used.
Nobody writes directly to Glide any more, no, but it's still a _very_ important part of the 3Dfx acceleration stack. And, as an AC mentioned above, the only major 3D API that MS doesn't have a finger in.
I, for one, am glad to see 3Dfx trying to keep Glide clean to their vision, although I also would prefer it not be proprietary.
A comparatively small company with closed propietary technology, fighting for their survival... Comparatively 3dfx IS the underdog. As far as the big picture is concerned, 3dfx is blind to it.
3dfx is so focused on their outmoded propietary API that they are missing the boat... There are more important things to do than chase after Creative for Unified.
Perhaps their time would be better spend designing competitive innovative hardware.
was he serious or sarcastic???
My guess is he actually was serious, since he is the same guy who claimed he created the internet...
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Well, this seems to reflect recent changes in the graphics card industry pretty well. 3DFX's cards suck (especially compared to the TNT2 and G400), and it's clear now where that lack of quality is coming from. 3DFX is more concerned about protecting their turf by any means possible rather than making good products. I got annoyed a while back when it messed with another college (or HS) kid for doing the same thing, but back then 3dFX had a strong foothold. Now, this is just suicide. Nobody has to stick to Glide anymore, OpenGL is a better solution anyway. And Voodoo3 is a shitty card also. So compared with the TNT2 and G400, both who are coming out with nice OpenGL support, this just leaves 3dfx in the pits.
-Laxative
It's from some old joke. Basically, the bathroom in some bar was just a hole in the floor of the second story, directly over the ceiling fan.
I never thought it was funny, but it does make for an "interesting" expression.
My wife tells a story of how, as a child, she did something similar. She equated the blades of a blender with the blades on a neighbors AC. She and her little band of outlaws were trying to make a shit shake for some local undesirable. They collected all the doggy-doodle they could, and threw it, and several glasses of milk, at the AC fan.
You can imagine the results.
Relevant? Nah, but amusing.
--Mark
I'm tired of seeing 3dfx threaten everyone under the sun for making GLIDE clones. If they try to sue a large company and get slapped down in court, then they'll have no leg to stand on to threaten poor defenseless high school students and so on.
If this angers you as much as it does me, voice your feelings in the only language these people understand -- money. Support their competitors and do not purchase their products. Whatever the legal merits of the case, 3dfx is IMHO clearly behaving as a poor citizen of the open source community. I have a 3dfx card. A number of my friends are interested in doing 3d under Linux, and I volunteered to be the guinie pig. I am now going to purchase a TNT2 card and get it working under Linux, then recommend to my friends that they do the same. I am even going to go as far as to explicitely tell them that if they buy a 3dfx product they will be on their own -- I will not help them install or configure it. And yes, I am going to be very up front with them as to exactly why I am doing this.
Our wallets are unfortunately the only way we have to voice our objections effectively. It probably won't work, but it *might* help reign in the overly litigious corporate culture which threatens to engulf us. I urge others to take a similar stance, and to make sure 3dfx knows exactly how you feel (in a polite, well considered manner).
As an aside, does anyone have any recommendations for TNT or TNT2 based cards they have working under Linux, and if so, what issues (if any) did you have?
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
3dfx has the right to sue creative, its their technology and they have the right to protect it.
its obvious the 3dfx has the better product and creative and nvida are struggling to stay ahead of the game.
why cant people just develop their own stuff!
Loyal 3dfx fan!
I've always disliked 3dfx since the V1 days because of no windowed rendering. I still don't like them because they haven't really upgraded their architecture (V3 = Banshee+V2, Banshee = 2d+Voodoo1, V2 = 2*V1). But as much as I dislike them, they have every right to sue Creative. 3dfx invested a lot of time and money supporting Glide, supporting developers that make Glide games. Now Creative is TAKING Glide support for free and using their once held position with 3dfx for advantage. Creative definitely had to source code, for that comes with the driver package that you get when you make 3dfx cards (like V1, V2, Banshee). We can be certain that they used this knowledge to help them make a wrapper. Even if they didn't, the license still prohibits making of wrappers (Glide is only for 3dfx hw).
Incorrect.
APIs are not protectible intellectual property (and probably not "intellectual property" at all). 3Dfx is inventing rights out of thin air through its license "agreement". Sadly, contracts of this nature do not create intellectual property or rights therein. 3Dfx is simply indulging in bullying tactics.
The specifics of this case may be different, as Creative was obviously a source code licensee (with signed contracts and everything). We shall have to wait for the results of the discovery process to see what really happened. But your fundamental claim is incorrect: Inventors do not enjoy absolute rights over their inventions unless they keep them to themselves. Once you make it generally available to the public, the rules change.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
So who's message is this this? Is it just some guy who worked at nvidia as a linux advocate, or just they guy who always answers the mail.
The fact that I thought it was going to be a binary *.so file is becuase of some other message there, I forget which. I think it was a reply from the guy who made that message.
(By "guy", i mean who the other guy is qouting. Get it:)
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I don't condone any of that. I do however believe that 3DFx needs to get off its collective ass and quit trying to use proprietary APIs to keep the competition at bay. Why can't they just make good products and let consumers choose what's best for them? Nah... that would mean competing on merit... can't have that now can we? All the wrapper does is allow games that were written only for Glide to run on other cards besides 3DFx cards. 3DFx doesn't want anyone to be able to play these games unless they buy a 3DFx card. That's BS. It shows that they are losing their edge and are grasping at anything they can to keep themselves from sinking into mediocrity. Looks like it's too late.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I just voted with mine today. One Viper 770 (hey, it's cheap) should be in the mail right now, with my name on it. No more Virge-induced X lockups... I can hardly wait.
Check out Tom's Hardware and Ace's Hardware for TNT2 reviews. As far as I remember, the Hercules cards were the best performers.
Glide sux.
Proprietery APIs suck.
Besides, long gone is the time when games came out with Glide-only support. If any game developer wants to survive in the market, they will need to develop their applications in Direct3D and/or OpenGL. I'm sure Unreal/Tribes/etc would have sold a lot more copies if it initially came out with great Direct3D/OpenGL support.
TNT it is then! Idjits.