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XFree86 News
PseudoMan was the
first with the news: XFree86 3.3.4 has finally been released (yes, you
can actually see the contents of the directory now). Rumour has it that
the new release contains support for various Matrox cards, and may be the last release before
we see 3.9 show up. Update: 07/20 06:05 by J : It seems that the first public beta of 4.0, 3.9.15,
is now available. xinerama, here I come!
I agree that the font configuration in X is utterly archaic.
/usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts/ttf /mnt/c/windows/fonts/*.ttf .
;-)
However, using xfsft and a bit of tweaking XFree86's fonts look every bit as good as Windows (and certainly much better than Solaris's default font configuration):
cd
cp
ttmkfdir > fonts.dir
/etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs restart
Any monitor that can do 1024x768 at a decent refresh rate (75Hz) can do 1152x900 at an acceptiable one (72Hz). (monitors are analog devices, it doesn't have to be on the box to be possible.. It has to be within bandwidth and frequency constraints)
.26 1280x1024x70Hz (there are cheaper ones that can meet 1152x900) .26 1600x1200x75Hz
If your 17 can't do it then you are probably pushing the refresh too high.. It can do it, but only at a low refresh.. I would never push my refresh below 72Hz.
Here, save up for a bit and check this out:
From www.pricewatch.com
$209 - 17" PX-780
$297 - 19" KDS VS-195
$824 - 21" CTX EX1300 1800x1440x76Hz
Sure, you can get cheaper ones.. But with hardware, you usually get what you pay for..
At home I have a Viewsonic P817, running at 1800x1440x80Hz (soon to be 2048x1536@85Hz when my G400Max comes in).. My wallet may be hurting, (@~$1,400) buy my eyes have never felt better.
XFree86 is done on a closed development model. Yes, the result is free and the source is freely available, but the development is still quite closed.
I really think that if they were to change this, it would accelerate the pace of XFree86 development, which I consider to be way behind the curve in how fast it's evolving compared to other projects of the same significance.
To some extent, though, the choice of a closed development model is to allow them to have greater ability to work with hardware vendors and software contributors that have restrictive requirements. There are clearly two sides to this coin; it lets things happen that wouldn't happen otherwise (more hardware support, more cool-neat-features), but it also lets things happen that wouldn't happen otherwise (being put in wierd positions by vendors such as with the NVidia stuff).
It may be possible for the XFree86 team to organize their in-development tree into friendly parts and unfriendly parts, where the former is stuff that could be made available by anoncvs and the latter can't. This might be a compromise situation that could make more people happy than the current scenario.
I can't show you mail that says 'bugger off' but I definitley got that impression.
When I read about SGI releasing GLX as open source I also read this on the Precsion Insight site:
Programmers who are interested in working with the DRI are encouraged to join the XFree86 Project.
As I was interested in working on this project, I went over the the XFree86 site and studied their procedures. They say
One of the XFree86 Project's scarcest and most valued resources is its developers. We're never short on things that need to be done, just short of people to do them. If you're interested in donating some of your spare time to help advance XFree86, we'd like to hear from you.
To join The XFree86 Project as a non-voting member, send email to xfree86@xfree86.org requesting a membership application form, and briefly state the reason why you wish to become a member. It is very rare that we knock back membership requests, but we are looking for members who will be active in developing and/or testing rather than people simply looking for early access to new code.
So I wrote a short e-mail stating my reasons to join and asked if they have a task that was suited to introduce me to the project.
The reaction was not a TO DO list, but a mail from XFree86 Prez Dirk Hohndel that told me rather to join some other related project that was run by another SuSE guy, Simon Pogaric. Thus I contacted him and frankly, IMHO he was not looking for any help, he had no TO DO list either.
This was not what I expected. As I did not want to force my help on people I did not pursue matters further and looked for some other stuff (after all there is enough work).
I might be paranoid but I have the feeling to have been gotten into some competition between two rivaling groups (Red Hat, PI vs. SuSE).
The whole matter rather annoyed me because I think such large projects should have enough tasks (documenting, code cleansing, implementing) where good coding skills (in my case 18 years of programming, plus strong scientific background) would help and that would allow one to get accustomed to the code base.
Other large projects like egcs or FreeBSD work that way and offer a kind apprenticeship system. With XFree86 I have my doubts.
It's not very closed. All you have to do is send in a request to join. Has anyone ever actually been turned down? Would you also claim that Linux development is closed because you have to actually get off your proverbial backside to subscribe to the linux-kernel mailing list?
You can quite happily write new drivers for the current X servers, based on the released source. If you want to do something more involved, then you should join the team and get on the mailing lists. What could be simpler?
Plus, the 2D performance of the matrox cards is just amazing. If I can get 10% better performance in the 2D world over a TNT2 then even if the 3D performance is half as good I'd go for the Matrox card.
But, that's just me. I use 2D much more than 3d.
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
I think this is largely Netscape's issue... I think Netscape is taking smaller fonts and making them larger by scaling... 9pt at 18pt or whatnot (but doesn't do a good job of scaling like TeX)
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
Okay, I think I found a way to get around this.
In ~/.netscape/preferences.js, there is an option called user_pref("intl.font_spec_list". Then next to it is a LARGE list of fonts (it's all one line, by the way.) The final font name is the default font for most things. Change it's -0- to -160- or whatever you want. Then save it (make sure Netscape isn't running), and change to root and chown preferences.js for root, then use chmod to make root the only person that can write to it (but still let users read it.) I used the Midnight Commander (regular version in an xterm or console) to do the chmod'ing and chown'ing. Of course, if you run netscape as root, you'll have to make a script that copies the correct preferences file under a different name to preferences.js.
God I hope this is fixed soon.
Hum. Well, Verdana looks nice in small sizes (compared to Helvetica..it seems the text on the side bars on Slashdot always looked like murder on it.) But in bold, large sizes such as the headlines for Slashdot, it looks like crap. Not enough space. Any ideas?
Well, I run at 1280x1024, and the fonts in Netscape often look absolutely crappy. They have extra chunks all over the place -- looks like they thought the fonts should be getting antialiased, even though they really aren't..
At any rate, I wouldn't mind if there were different systems for the simple 1-bit fonts, and another for antialiased font. Just use whichever works better for the situation. If you need speed, use the traditional stuff. If you want it to look pretty, use antialiasing (or whatever other fun technique they come up with).
*shrug*
I know that the font system tends to suck sometimes, but you shouldn't have to edit the fonts.dir by hand -- use 'mkfontdir'
Your font problem is due to scaling: bitmap fonts don't scale at all well, and Type 1 fonts don't really have enough scaling hints to work well at screen resolutions. TrueType fonts are better for this --- ideally, one would use TrueType on screen and Type 1 for printing, but then you have to find fonts with matching metrics....
Antialiasing has a bigger problem: X fonts are depth-1 bitmaps. Changing this would involve major, incompatible changes to the X protocol and Xlib, breaking every application. Or a whole new API added on top of the existing one, making the new server even more complex (= bloated and buggy, trying to make the two font systems work together properly) and making life hell for the X toolkit and application folks. This might be an idea for X Version 12, but I expect it won't happen in any X11 release.
-- brandon s. allbery, sysadmin @ cmu electrical & computer engineering "Think, youth, THINK!"
> XFree could start by opening up its codebase a little.
Once upon a time, it was open. Then certain Linux distribution maintainers (no longer around) decided it'd be neat to include outdated, buggy pre-alpha X releases in their distributions --- and redirected all the bug reports to the XFree folks. They Were Not Happy, and I don't blame them.
The upshot here is that *we* screwed up, and the XFree folks got burned badly as a result. If we want to see more open XFree86 development, we're going to have to prove to them that we're not going to pull stunts like that any more.
(Unfortunately, with Red Hat's fondness for including prerelease stuff in their distributions --- "prepatch" kernels and Perl "m" releases, to name some from the 5.x era --- I'm not sure I'd trust them to keep their mitts off prerelease XFree86 code.)
-- brandon s. allbery, sysadmin @ cmu electrical & computer engineering "Think, youth, THINK!"
XFree could start by opening up its codebase a little. Last time I checked you had to be a developer to get early access to code. Nor could I find any public archives of the developers mailing lists.
"Being a developer" implies a commitment that may discourage occasional developers and patch submitters (such as myself).
Don't get me wrong; I respect and value the work that the XFree developers do.
Now that I've said all that, Adam, just s/Branden/Adam/ and it's still true. =)
I have one of these puppies on order at necx.com. Goes anyone have one and can comment on how well it works under X, and more importantly, what version of XF86 is needed?
This is just what we needed! Soon, XF86-4.0 will be ours! The world is a better place and the birds are singing! Plug it in... plug it in.
Do I sound excited? YOU BET!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
The ~4-5 year 17" monitor I am using has done 1600x1280@60Hz before. Also, it is pin sharp at 1280x1024. And monitor technology has improved greatly since then.
John
John_Chalisque
Can people please post some detils -- my poor little modem can't cope with the download :-(
John
John_Chalisque
Well, they DID say the hardware support for the XF4 prerelease would be highly limited...
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Ummm. I built it easily on a Debian potato box today. Just 'make World'. Or didn't you read the READMEs?
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Well, yes, XFree86 keeps all the .cf's for all the commercial UNIXen provided in the X Consortium's source distribution.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Well, of course, XFree86 isn't even under the BSD license. It's still under the X Consortium license, has been for a long time, and hopefully will stay that way, contrary to some past attempts by the (not-so-)Open Group.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
How did you get dual-head to work on Linux? I've got cards and monitors for x86 that I can't use at home and my sparc5 has two fb's but only one works with RH6. Even KDE only works on one screen under Solaris7. This is bugging me, but not enough to go mucking around for a solution. A pointer to HOW-TOs would be appreciated.
_damnit_
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
Some highlights... direct access to vidram, multimonitor support, anti-aliased fonts, remote display, 3D acceleration and remote 3D display...
Where else have the others moved on exactly?
At the moment Windows is still playing catchup on the remote display issue.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Still gives the BitBLT timeout error on GD5446 cards. The GD5446 chipset was awfully popular for it to be dropped from X in 1997.
I really don't get it. Font handling is a well understood technology, and yet XFree still falls short. Fonts (even true-type fonts) look terrible under XFree - they look _far_ superior under (for example) Solaris' X server. And I'm afraid to say it, fonts just look a lot better under MacOS or Windows. It's a real shame, because I think XFree would be a lot more usable with a decent font engine underneath - and yes, I've tried both TrueType font engines for XFree.
:)
,hacker Perl another Just)'
Anyone know of any progress being made in this area?
Also font setup is appalling. I can't believe you have to edit font.dir files for each directory - why on earth wouldn't the server do this for you? I was astonished at the amount of work it took to get a few TrueType fonts working before the perl TrueType tools came out to do some of the work for you.
I guess you could consider this a bug report.
Matt.
perl -e 'print scalar reverse q(\)-:
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
Porting the entire of XFree86 4.0 into 256 bytes of memory... Am I allowed to skimp on the fonts?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I am running right now on Sparc Solaris using XFree86 3.3.3. It doesn't have some of the features I would like like loadable server modules but otherwise seems to work. All of the original Sun drivers from X11R6.3 are still there. Indeed they would have had to still be there for XFree86 to support Sparc Linux, as it does.
Nice... You partially answered the reason why I suggest not running a 15" unit above 1024x768... The bandwidth required for good refresh above that typically requires that you go out and pay more money, so you might just as well get a 17" unit for that amount of money. I'm all for smooth fonts, but I believe eye strain to be more dependent on refresh than dot blockiness. And I'm suggesting that you do get more pixels with dual head.
In my dual-head system,
I am currently running
2048x768 : 1.5 Mpixels
2304x864 : 1.99 Mpix
2560x1024: 2.6 Mpix
Normal single screen modes:
1024x768 : 0.8 Mpix
1280x1024: 1.3 Mpix
1600x1200: 1.92 Mpix
So I get as many or more pixels, more screen surface area, save money, better refresh if I go down a tube size.
My suggestion wasn't about DPI. On paper, dots are almost everything. On screen, flicker happens. I'm not sure how close your eyes are to your screen, but I'm not anywhere near bothered by minute text blockiness as I am with flicker and high tube prices for marginal size and performance gain.
15" = 1152x900
You think THIS is a good idea? A 15" unit shouldn't be run above 1024x760 for ergonomic reasons.
But really, I'm ahead of the game. People blow good cash on a 21" monitor when they should go dual head with 17's and 19's. I'm willing to gamble that the two 19's cost less than a single 21" can give you better than 70% more total pixels at a better refresh rate with more than 70% additional screen surface area. That is from my own analysis. I'd post the numbers, but I lost them. I considered getting a 19" when the costed about 400$, but I found a pair of cheap 17" for about 350$, an extra video card for the remainder savings (Matrox Millennium 8MB - solid units) and come out way ahead. MetroX also supports multiple screens on all Matrox products.
That's 1.
So far, I see no great contradiction to his (admittedly made-up) statistic.
15" = 1152x900
17" = 1280x1024
19" = 1600x1200
21" = 1880x1440
Great idea. However, I have yet to see any monitor which is even capable of those resolutions at the sizes you have indicated. I don't know of any 15" monitors which can do more than 1024x768, and I can't even get my 17" higher than that (never mind that it says quite plainly on the box that it should be possible). All of the 19" monitors I've found can't do more than 1280, and the 21-inchers can't do more than 1600.
It does. Mine's been working fine for some time now.
Definitely ... I'm using Verdana as my browser font (running the xfstt font server) and it definitely looks very nice on a 15" 1024x768 screen, even with Netscape's questionable rendering technbiques. (Can't wait to see how it'll look in Nav 5 though!)
Plus, there's just something deliciously ironic about taking something free from Microsoft (their web fonts collection) and them not getting any platform lock-in in return.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Damn - i was there last night checking for this... But it was not there *I suspect squid* ....
Today, BOOM, It's there! But flooded...
--
Marques Johansson
displague@linuxfan.com
Marques Johansson
is that $300 us? I just bought a VooDoo3/16mb pci 2000 for $99 at compusa, imagine if i bought it online - $89ish ... Besides that - All the Voodoo cards (AFAIK) are under $100 these days (minus the new Voodoos 3000,4000) ....
Furthermore - Riva 128/TNT cards with GL support are also $99 at compusa...
In X i can get 32bit color at all modes my monitor supports, and the framerates are still awesome.
What home user really needs much beyond that?? (attn smartasses: don't even bother answering that question)
--
Marques Johansson
displague@linuxfan.com
Marques Johansson
And the easy choice is...3Dfx?
I have a Creative TNT card, and q3test runs in the seconds-per-frame range. Maybe I've just installed the libraries wrong, but as of now the TNT drivers perform very poorly.
Stripping away religious issues, what 3D card PERFORMS best in the games available _right_now_ for Linux?
--
#19845
Well, you do have choices even now for accelerated
3D under linux
1) 3dfx
Binary-only drivers using glide. It's worked under linux for ages.
2) Matrox G200/G400
Vendor supplied near, but not complete documentation.
3) TNT/TNT2
Vendor supplied/supported 3D acceleration with full source.
Not a hard choice for me =) (well, ok, G400 is still a possibility, it seems to be slightly cheaper and some of the features are really nice. Not that I have space for two monitors, so the dual head support is useless)
Heh. how many hours 'till its in Incoming? :)
-Scott
-- dieman - Scott Dier
Sony 200SX/ES (17") will do 1280x1024 (60Hz).
ViewSonic 815 will do 1880x1440. Good luck getting an off-the-shelf video card that will drive that... (most seem to max out at 1600x1200).
to be honest, on my system here (ATI RageII Pro driving a GW2K "VX900" 19" monitor at 1600x1200), I see ZERO difference between turning on "sharpen screen fonts" and having it off, in Windows NT.
Anti-aliasing does less and less at higher resolutions.
The wire protocol is the same, so X apps run on another system will still display on XFree 4.0. 4.0 adds GLX, so OpenGL apps will run nicer even then 3.x. This'll definitely help SGI->Linux, I'm not sure about Solaris. Anyway, yes, your Solaris apps will still display on Linux nicely.
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
I don't have a Permedia2, but I ran a grep on the sources and there appears to be a lot of support. YMMV.
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
I've never gotten him to compile on my box. It just doesn't work.
support gun control: take guns from cops
Just as a matter of interest, I seem to recall that if you use LibGGI with the DGA target and have fbcon, you can change the screen resolution/mode on-the-fly, which you cannot easily do with plain DGA.
And, of course, you get the usual LibGGI advantage of extreme display independence. No more releasing separate console and X versions.
---
DNA just wants to be free...
see the Berlin project. Not that that kind of 3d flashiness is in and of itself a design goal, but the current design allows for it.
---
DNA just wants to be free...
Netscape is broken. Try this:
1) Install TrueType fonts. Use the xfs server from Redhat 6.0 or xfstt.
2) Install the Arial font from Windows according to instructions with the TT font renderer.
3) In Netscape's preferences Appearance/Fonts, use Arial as the default font, click on the Allow Scaling button.
4) In the same place, type the number 16 (16 point font) in the textbox next to the "Allow Scaling" button.
5) Save preferences
At this point your fonts should be MUCH better on all pages, and comparable to the Windows handling of fonts. This works for my home 15' monitor at 1024x768 and my 21' at work at 1024x1280. This is an OLD problem with Netscape, one that Mozilla doesn't have (thank god).
Oh, one problem with this setup. Netscape doesn't save the point size of scalable fonts, but rather defaults to 12. You have to enter the '16' into the text box every time you start Netscape...
jf
Does anyone know if work is being done to support the NeoMagic MagicGraph 256ZX (NM2260) chipset? A friend of mine recently bought a Dell Inspiron 3500 that has this chipset, and if no X servers support it, it's completely useless to her.
Hi,
X 3.3.5 should be released in a week or two.
Not everything made it in this release...
So, my multi-headed system has languished, ever since I went to the 2.2 kernel, which broke Metro-X for reasons unbeknownst. Has anybody yet tried using the new XFree's multihead support? (Xfree 3 got horribly confused by it...couldn't even display on just one card.) My system has two Matrox Millenium II's, which, given what XFree's website says, should work. I hope. And anybody played with Xinerama yet? Any WM's able to handle it?
---------
The debian maintainer of x, Branden Robinson compiles on my box. I already have both downloaded, and have started applying the debian patches to 3.3.4. 3.9.15 is all his, tho.
This is NOT an official word from Branden. There is no timeline as to when this will be available from debian.
Umm, that is why they are putting it into unstable (potato) and not stable (slink).
Now, if they had a buggy/unstable version of X in potato when potato became stable, that would be a different story.
--Rob
And not only that, you forgot the large number of people with Matrox G200's. Those are accelerated, too -- they're actually quite fast under Linux (and cheap! :). So yeah -- only a few people with accelerated 3D? Maybe a year or so ago, but not now.
The fact that no one is coming forward to defend this wild theory is instructive, wouldn't you say?
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
If you antialias 10 point fonts or lower, the of course they'll be blurry then, the only way to get around jaggy fonts at small sizes is to not use them. Besides, you haven't heard the same thing, you brought up the subject in the first place.
The, shall we say "novel", theory about how antialiasing works, by playing with your eye focus, simply isn't born out by any facts. I eagerly await revelation to the contrary.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
- the Crazy Fraggle
Did you make sure that each of the 1024x1280 pixels were really resolved ? it's one thing for the gun to be able to sync up to the resolution , and another thing for your shadow mask to have a fine enough pitch to actually display it.
Do you have actual evidence that antialiasing causes eyestrain? Have any studies been done on this?
At last, we have support for CID fonts. Now if the Japanese font makers would only get off their collective asses (*cough*Morisawa*cough*) and release fonts under a fucking REASONABLE license, then I'd be happy...
Yes, the time is almost upon us. I'd like to see nVidia pick up the ball and run with it now. I have to make a decision sometime soon for a new vid card, and I would love to have a couple choices. Voodoo3, G400, or TNT2/Ultra. Hmmm, choices choices...
:)
I'd like to see what a DRI driver can do for Q3Test, as this is what was holding back cards like the TNT2 and G400 from performing well.
With LAN tournaments coming up, I would love to be able to compete with Q3Test/Q2 native on Linux. That would certainly raise eyebrows for the Windows folk
Personally, I find that TrueType fonts look very nice in X (with RedHat 6.0's xfs (freetype) or xfstt). I've compared them with the local NT box with a 'real' TT font renderer, and they are at least as good.
.exe files.
Indeed they do look quite nice if you use a good font. However, you're forgotting about antialiasing. That's part of what makes Windows tt rendering so good. Freetype already supports this, so it shouldn't be too hard to hack something in, though the proper way is to use alpha-blended drawables, I expect. Perhaps with the hardware accelerated Imlib extension in XFree 5.0?
2) Many of the standard XFree fonts were donated and they weren't really high quality.
This is definitely true. Microsoft, oddly enough, has commissioned some very good truetype screen fonts. Unfortunately, there're not redistributable, but you can download them here for free; unzip works on the Windows 'self-extracting'
One thing to remeber is that Netscape is broken as regards scaleable fonts. That's why some pages look really odd with tiny fonts. However, if you do a trick (deals with typing in the font size in preferences), my Netscape fonts look as good as NT's on all pages.
I think this is more a function of the lack of resolution-independence in the OS. Most operating systems make different (wrong) assumptions about the physical resolution of your monitor, so a webpage that looks reasonable under one OS won't on another. See this tidbits article for details.
what version of unzip are you using?
Ah, I spoke too soon. unzip works on the Win 3.1 versions (I think it just skips the executable part and looks for the zip header). The Win32 versions don't work--you're right--and some of them aren't available in the old format.
I tried wine on them, but the (older--981018) version I had handy didn't work. Other options: borrow a Mac or Windows machine, or try decoding the mac format one. There are some tools for doing that under linux, but I didn't have any luck.
I've got a TNT, and the current GLX driver are pretty darned slow, even when compared to the performance I've heard from the G200 driver. The driver doesn't seem to be at all optimized, and since there are no specs (afaik), nobody's working on it. Everytime I 'cvs update', I see all the G200 stuff updated, and usually none of the TNT stuff. NVidia either needs to finish their driver or release specs!
Like some other people have mentioned, you probably want to shell out some cash for your monitor. It's one of the parts of your computer that will actually last more than a few years, so go ahead and splurge on it.
"The value of a man resides in what he gives,
and not in what he is capable of receiving."
"The value of a man resides in what he gives,
and not in what he is capable of receiving."
--Albert Einstein
anti-aliasing is a really disgusting hack. Since it slightly blurs the fonts your eyes perceive them as being out of focus, so they try to refocus, this doesn't work, so they refocus yet again, and again, and again, and again. This causes a great deal of strain for your eyes. Running at a higher resolution with larger font sizes looks better and is much nicer to your eyes.
-matt
Actually I think you can hack around the no-save problem. I did this once with netscape on my computer (no idea if it was for the exact same problem though). Do the above steps, then exit netscape. Go into ~/.netscape and edit whatever the preferences file is (i think it's prefs.js or something like that). Find the font line and everywhere you see a -0- for the font size replace it with -16-. Note: these directions might not be 100%, i have only done this once on one computer and it was a little while ago. If someone has more (better) knowledge please post it. It's a really ugly hack, hopefully mozilla will be useable soon (for every day browsing atleast) and we can finally get some decent looking fonts.
-matt
sounds like the font server got borked. first try /etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs stop ; /etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs start. If that fails, try rebooting (I know it's a very windows-ish solution, but it works sometimes).
-matt
I have heard the same thing, and from personal experience, I would say it's true. My monitor at work (windows, dell 17inch, 1024x768x75hz) causes my eyes to hurt more than my monitor at home (linux, acer 17inch, 1280x1024x60hz). My home monitor runs at a lower refresh rate and a higher resolution which should cause more eyestrain, not less. The only thing I can think of is anti-aliased fonts.
-matt
X11 doesn't have the advertising clause of the BSD licence, so basically X11 code can ``become'' any other licence. It's truly all things to all people.
Cheers,
Joshua.
--jon. Postel is dead. May we all mourn his, and our, loss.
looking over there web site it looks pretty nice. the next X should be really good.. I may need to get new hardware so I can really take advantage of the new features...
Only 'flamers' flame!
"Precision Insight has been provided with funding and support from Red Hat and SGI to integrate the GLX extension for 3D rendering in an X11 window. The 3D core rendering component is the Mesa library. SGI has released the sources to the extension framework under an open license, which essentially provides the glue system. Precision Insight has integrated these components into this XFree86 X Server and added a Direct Rendering Infrastructure. Direct Rendering provides a highly optimized path for sending 3D data directly to the graphics hardware. This release demonstrates a sample implementation of direct rendering by providing a single path of 3D hardware accelerated rendering for the GMX2000 graphics card. Future releases will support much broader implementations of hardware accelerated direct rendering on a wide range of 3D capable graphics devices."
If they support OpenGL for my card (i740) half as well as it is supported under Win98, then I don't have to boot into Windows to play Quake anymore!
Wheee!
I heard the dude (too buzzed to remeber his name) from XFree86 talk about 4.0 at the LinuxWorldExpo and I have been very excited ever since. True type font support (tho I already got that set up, and they will be using the same thing (xfsft and FreeType)) plus more OpenGL and Multi-head support.
Then if KDE comes out with a great 2.0 (Especially with high color icons) w/ a better looking widget set, then the future indeed looks bright for Linux on the desktop.
(I like GNOME, it looks way better than KDE, but it just doesn't seem to work as well at this point (except for it's file manager, which is way faster than kfm))
alright.. i'll stop with my drunken ramblings.. but DAMMIT, I'M EXCITED!
-geekd
"a fix to get XFree86-3.3.x to compile under glibc-2.1.2 "
Ack.. I hope by previous releases you dont mean 2.0.x . just finished downloading all the source, and about to try compiling with 2.1.1 on RedHat 6.0
Quit buying cheap, crappy monitors. My Dell 17" at work is (right now) running at 1280x1024... for a good 19" try the Hitachi Superscan 750, it can easily do 1600x1200
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
--Terry Pratchett
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
--Terry Pratchett
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
--Terry Pratchett
And will unsupported in August according to the Register.
Why can't intel stick with something that it is good at.. like well ummm like.. so okay.. x86 processors..
Yeah, right... only 3 or 4 Linux users in the whole world have either a Voodoo {1,Rush,2,Banshee,3} or nVida Riva TNT(2) or Amiga Warp3D!!
I for sure know more than 4 Linux users who have supported hardware, and besides, if you check Linux 3D, you'll se that support for other cards is under way as well!!
---
Ilmari
Remove the capital letters from the e-mail-address
© ilmari. All rights reserved, all wrongs reversed
No offence, but that's a really dim comment. I've got a 17" that can't display 1024x768 without getting a bit blurry at the edges, and I think many other people are stuck with even worse monitors. And most of us cannot afford to shell out for a posh Ilyama or something similar...
Anti-aliasing may not be the 'right' solution in the most anal sense but it makes life better for lots of people. e.g. back in 1991 Acorn introduced a fully scalable, anti-aliased font system on their machines and all I had was a 50Hz telly but it still looked pretty nice. Today Netscape does some 'orrible things to my fonts and I can't afford to buy a posher monitor, so I for one would really really like some more apps to use it.
Hey ho.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
I am havin the same problem.
You can always comment out the ttf line in your XF86Config file. But that is just a temp solution.
That will get the Xserver up and goin.
If you have any luck gettin it to work email me at bbaptist@rocketmail.com, if you don't mind.
"Let's not bicker about who killed who." Monty Python
That command doesn't work with true type fonts.
You have to use ttmkfdir. But that messed up my system just like the other guys.
"Let's not bicker about who killed who." Monty Python
"Due to a few important changes that came after 3.3.4 was finalized , a 3.3.5 release (which will include binaries) will be made in the next couple of weeks."
Ok, so they're releasing this version, which is known to be somewhat incomplete under a full blown version name. Why? Shouldn't they just call it a pre-release or a beta? It's only a couple weeks until the Real Deal comes out. Why say "Well, We have this new version of Xfree, but its got problems and we'll issue the fixes under the next version." Doesn't this sound like some idiot software company out of Redmond who releases service packs to fix service packs?
Ok, that was a little too much of a parallel. But do you see my point. If an Xfree86 release addmittively sucks, don't give it the entitlement of a full version number. Just call it 3.3.x-pre or something and let the world know: "For bleeding edge users only." At least they were half-thinking like that . . . they left out the documentation so idiots like me can't see if I need it for my Banshee. . .
Let me say a few things to you:
XFree86 4.0
Direct Rendering Infrastructure
OpenGL
Duh?
If you want to do anything fast, just do it in OpenGL. This will be fast for full screen GFX, if you have a supported card.
This is probably true for 2d too, as it doesn't have to be copied to the Xserver. I wouldn't bother with DGA, its XFree specific, and limited to 2d. With OpenGL based stuff, its easy to port to Mac, Windows, any Unix, and even BeOS.....
No matter what I try it just refuses, I've followed INSTALL.TXT to the letter (after trying a simple 'make World'), it manages to build a few libs and binaries, but complains about fuctions not being prototypes... any joy anyone??
Complete garbage? I don't know what you consider garbage, but you obviously haven't seen one of these. My roomate bought one for his computer, and it plays Quake 3 at a very acceptable frame rate (it's no TNT2, but it's fast enough that you don't see any slowdowns).
Plus it was one of the first cards to have a stencil buffer (not many programs use it right now, but they will soon).
Don't bag on it unless you have legitimate reasons. Brian Hook (formerly of id software) originally said that this was one of the best cards you could run Quake 3 on for the price. If you don't want to spend $100 on a TNT, $30 for an i740 can't be beat.
you got a voodoo3? for $99?
I got a TNT for a frend's box for $78 about 4 months ago.
the voodoo3 sucks amazing ass, compared to even a TNT...
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I don't know anything about berlin
I know next to nothing about X
I know you are an idiot
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
you mean like windows?
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
get gigabit ethernet... that'll have all the quality you'll ever need :)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
My 19" Dell 1200HS can run 1600x1200 @ 75Hz I use this as my standard resolution, I drop to 1152x900 @ >100Hz when my eyes get tired reading too much off of the screen.
I have yet to see a 19" monitor do less than 1600x1200 although most seem to just state optimal resolution of 1280x1024 because that is what they can get at 85Hz.
Hi, I Know most of you Linux guy are not concerned, but what is the compatibility with X11 ? I run a Solaris box, and there are already so many linux software hardly protable on other Unices.
Since sound is a part of many systems running X when (or is there) sound support. I would not expect sound drivers as part of X but it would be nice if there was a pipe so that an application displaying of an X server would would have its sound sent to that X server.
I think this would be nice since when my wife starts her X-terminal her sould come out of the servers speakers (on the outer side of the room). Not that I mind, but it would be nice if they came out in the correct place.
Just a thought.
My cheapo Belinea 15" will do 12x10...I use 10x7 because I want at least 85hz
Most new 17" (esp. Iiyama) will do 16x12
VMPro 450 19" will do 1800x1440
And so on...maybe t's time you looked at new monitors
It exits already, umm.. 3dwm was one thing I heard of, don't know its status. Another was Objective Reality, a commercial 3D UI for linnux. And ggi has some nifty stuff of things like putting different X sessions on sides of a cube. Really cool stuff. You can try these out if you wish.. Xfree support will be cool tho...
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
I have it very much like you, but for example www.icq.com is just unreadable (while it is tiny but readable on windows).
Yes, you are correct, for now. The nVidia drivers are admittedly shitty, they're waiting for XFree86 4.0.
So just wait for 4.0, these things will all be greatly improved. You may be able to help by writing to linux distributors and showing your concerns, and hopefully persuading them to help with the XFree86 effort!
Now that you got that stuff off your chest and you feel better and all, you now have something to look forward too! =)
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient... - High Road to China
I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a great big fucking load of crap. If you have something useful to contribute to the project then do it, hiding behind a license (which you apparently don't know much about) is just a cop-out.
Have you even bothered to read the Xfree86 license? Or are you just stock on the GPL because it's the "in thing" these days.
Put up or shut up.
I've been trying to make a windowing system called FX :) like X but much lower level giving the programs more control on the hardware because i really hate the way X does that sorta stuff.
:).
- -
I can happily stop this project if I ever find some DGA docs or source code, or Xfree86 project picks up its act and makes it viable for an idiot like me to program full screen fast apps (eg games).
So, if anyone has any nice DGA links and if DGA does want I want, please tell me.
Although X seems like absolute BLOATWARE to me, im sure it takes all that space and memory is so slow for a reason
-----------------------------------------------
"Annakin! Drop!"
"What was that mister qu-" *SPLAT*
-----------------------------------------------
Penguin at jordan.openprojects.net 6667 #debian
I do use 1600x1200, but at that res, I'd rather have a 21-inch.
"I have a good idea why it's hard to verify programs. They're usually wrong." --Manuel Blum, FOCS 94
This thing doesn't compile correctly.
yes I did read the directions correctly.
This thing was worse than mozilla in that respect.
It ruined XFree 3.3.3.1. at least mozilla
leaves netscap alone
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
The output said that it comiled correctly.
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
I take issue with that 99.999% ! I administer six Linux boxen, and haven't used X in months. I don't use graphics, so X brings me nothing that virtual consoles and SVGATextMode won't. Mostly people seem use X to open xterms.
I object to GUI's because they are pictographic menuing systems. They abandon the invention of the alphabet. Menuing systems are limited by their design, and can be long to navigate. X is admittedly the best of a bad lot.
That said, graphics are sometimes vital, and X is the best graphics solution for Linux. So XFree86 should attract more developers.
-- Robert
My 15" monitor does 1152x864 no problem every day. I have even bumped it up to 1280x1024 without significant degredation in picture quality. Heck, it doesn't become hard to read fonts until I bump it up to 1600x1200. I recommend that you go out and spend quite a bit more money on your monitor next time, a good monitor is well worth the price.
Disclamer - Opinion of Person
Crap! Where's the nvidia support in 3.9.15? And no accelerated ATI driver? ;-(
It's kinda sad how short the XFree team is on developers when more or less 99.999% of Linux users use X and 100% of distributions package it. It could really use some more commercial support from RedHat and SUSE, though they have helped a little bit in the past (RHat donated NeoMagic code once...).
For information on becoming an XFree86 developer, please visit the XFree86 developer page.
Also, you non-programmers that use X can do your part by knowing that RedHat and other commercial Linux vendors have ears for their customers and showing concern for the frequency of XFree86 release cycles is a good way to let them know that support for X development is very important to the success of Linux.
This patch worked for me.. i should say "is working" because it's still compiling.
Definitely doing better than it was.
the prototype/function thing is an offshoot of -pedantic I think; it doesn't seem to be hurting anything.
try :
/usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts/ttf
cd
mkfontdir
you may need to output it to fonts.scale :
mkfontdir > fonts.scale
possibly... sorry it's just off the top of my head.
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"