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E-Trade backs down, lets Red Hat IPO folks in
Bowie J. Poag writes "First it was "The eligibility profile will have no bearing on your ability to participate." Then, it was "Sorry! you failed the eligibility profile since you dont have half a million in the bank and 20 years trading experience. Bye." Now we've come full circle, thanks to a great deal of flames from the community.. E-Trade is backing down and letting us in. "
Cluelessness? Hmm...follow the directions, fill out the forms, and then get told that you're not elligible? Ya know, other than being clueless about the stupidity of a system where you get offered stock and are then turned down when you try to take advantage of that offer, I don't see how everyone here is so moronic.
Oh, and look at that. It seems that all the bitching and whining has had an effect.... E*Trade backed down! So, what does that say about the situation? E*Trade was going by some stupid rules invented by the suits, and when geeks arrived and questioned the rules, suddenly E*Trade rescinds them? Now who looks like the fool? The suits and their stupid, arbitrary rules, perhaps?
There is a very big difference here between the Red Hat IPO and the various other "internet" stocks out there. Red Hat has some actual assets. They actually sell something. They are more than just some portal web site or something that deals entirely in the abstraction that is the web and banner ads.
And, they are the best positioned company, at least in the popular press's eyes, to give Microsoft a run for it's money. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft somehow managed to make sure that Red Hat did well, simply to foster the notion that there is OS market competition on the Intel/x86 platform.
Good argument, but completely false in practice.
First of all, by opening an E*TRADE account, you specifically sign away all liability, and agree not to sue them.
Secondly, as we all know, nothing will stop people from suing other people for any reason anyway.
Whoa guy, calm down. I didn't get the "Ooops letter either (and yes I got "The Letter" and subsequently got bounced from ETrade). However, this morning I attempted again to get in on Red Hat's IPO and to my surprise was successful.
In regards to your RPMs. Why punish RedHat? The brought you the RPM format in the first place (Um, the "R" in RPM). If you want punish them, why not switch to a non-RPM based distro like Debian?
Either way, since I'm gonna be a Red Hat shareholder, I'll be taking your source and building Red Hat friendly RPMs wih it.
Cheers.
i don't know if this would've been legally possible, but it would've been best if Red Hat treated this like the OSS developers were employees of Red Hat and let them in privately or something. Without the more important developers, Red Hat wouldn't be where it is today and some of these people can be almost thought of as unpaid employees. I mean, isn't Joe Schmoe Linux user who works at Red Hat as a phone tech support guy getting a chance into the IPO or stock options or something, without an ETrade form to fill out?
Most of Red Hat Linux is a product that was developed by these people who are not employees of Red Hat. Because they, in some very important ways, helped the company, they shouldn't be treated just like the guy off the street.
I've gotta agree, nothing appears to have changed.
I just got off the phone with E*Trade. They took
my application over the phone, I answered the
questions honestly, and they told me I
wasn't considered suitable for the IPO.
Surely this isn't what Redhat had in mind? Didn't they -want- the small investor to have a chance
to get in on this?
Hey, guys, stop staring at the shining dollar.
Aren't we supposed to "make sure that Red Hat remains true to Open Source goals"?
Or did we all lose religion when the first chance of making a buck became obvious.
Sure, sell a little to cover the purchase cost, but keep the rest to make Red Hat honest.
OK?
Will in Seattle
One other thing. If you go to the Account Services tab on their site, you will see your account there after you log in. If it has a positive balance, your account is active. They got the paperwork on Friday, and Monday my account was active.
Hey, I got the original Letter from Red Hat and subsequently got bounced by ETrade.
:)).
I complained to ETrade (at their IPO complaint address - it bounced), Redhat (replied to the Letter) and Rob Malda (um, who's that?
I recieved no email from Etrade at all.
This morning I tried again and - surprise - successfully submitted a bid for 200 IPO shares of RHAT.
What's this ETrade letter folks are talking about?
ARGH!
Freggin SEC. The problem is my mom can get punished if I lie. :(
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
BULL SHUCKING FIT!
I can go to Las Vegas and put every cent I have on one spin of the roulette wheel. I can give all that I own to a televangelist (praying for that hundred-fold increase). I can buy tickets in a lottery run by my state. But I'm not can't invest in the stock market because I'm not QUALIFIED? What a load of CARP!
> Although I still believe that the problem here is Etrade and not Red Hat, there is absolutely
> nothing I can do to make my displeasure known to Etrade,
Maybe you could tell other people not to use Etrade, like you are doing now? Perhaps you could put a message like that in your packages that gets displayed when they are installed?
> Therefore, what I will be doing is withdrawing my prebuilt RPMs, and distributing the software I
> maintain in source code form only
Well, you could try and devalue the worth of Red Hat by doing something like this.. if enough people did so it would have an effect.
> I will rerelease my RPMs once they've been modified not to install on RH, but only on other
> RPM-based distributions, such as Mandrake.
man, are you bitter or something? This is stupid. No distribution would accept such a package, and the first thing anyone would do is just re-do the RPM without such a restriction.
"Yeah, I'm worth millions. Yeah. That's it. That's the ticket."
They want you to:
(bare minimum)
1. Have at least $50K in liquid assets (cash, money market).
2. Have made at least 75 trades over the past year.
3. Be an Agressive Investor.
4. Hold for the long term. Which means not sell the day of the IPO.
or
1. Have at least $500K.
2. they don't care about the rest that much
Capiche?
You can retake the test, Mr. Honesty. Just do it again.
Will in Seattle
"I suggest we make a new name "The Wired Effect" for overloading websites linked to by /. "
Yes, the Wired Effect is:
Worthless Information Repackaged Every Day
syndome....
Thanks wired, for telling us the samething slashdot does, but with little added insight!
IPO of $28, high of first day about $105, down to $30s right now. I'm just waiting for $30 to buy it.
Will in Seattle
One way is to look at the block trades for the day, how many there are and depending on where you get your information they may even have whether they are buys or sells... the more block trades on the buy side the better chance it may be an institution..i.e. business account.. that will hold on to it for a while and not day trade it.
I'm lucky, I work for a major brokerage house and have research , real time qoutes on all listed stocks and other brokers to talk to and gather information from. Its a little harder on line but if you watch the major investment sites like Motley fool and Raging Bull or thestreet.com you can probably find that information there for the most part.
Or you can hire a broker to do it for you, most places don't charge a fee unless you trade. So a good way of going about it is to try and start a relationship with a broker.. whether professionally or find a broker with similar personal interests.. Believe me the nerd/geek brokers exist that hack on computers on their off time.. and then just start milking him for info. If you like him enough open an account if not use the valuable info and trade on-line. Be careful though milk them to much without establishing an account and they will dry up after awhile.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein
Gods, this is sad;
Reading through the posts on the RedHat IPO, the offer to some
developers, Etrade's screening process, etc., makes me want to
give a bunch of people a good shake.
Here are some typical statements:
"I don't know if this would even be legal, but this is how I'd
do it if I were Etrade."
"The geeks have won over the SEC."
"Etrade has caved in to the OSS community!"
"The writing's on the wall. The traditional way of doing business
will have to change to accommodate Open Source."
Look folks, it's like this:
If OSS is going to be strictly a hacker's toy, then so be it. No
one will object if the Linux community or some segment of it want
to play around on their own, sharing code and feeling bright.
HOWEVER, we're talking big business here! SGI, Dell, IBM, and HP
(amongst many others) are getting involved. We're not in the
wading pool anymore kiddies! We're heading out into deep water,
and there are sharks in that water.
In other words, if you want in on the IPO and the business side
of things, start learning someething about how business (and the
stock market in particular) works. The SEC requires Etrade to make
a good faith attempt at keeping IPO offerings to people who are
capable (financially and intellectually) of investing in them.
The only "concession" they've made is admitting that they can't
keep you from lying and fscking yourself if RedHat tanks.
However, don't go whining about how it's all too complicated and
unfair. Deal with it, or get out now.
Do you honestly think that the entire stock market is going to
reorganise around a handful of nerds who _might_ buy as much as
13 percent of a single, IPO from a relatively small company? They're
not. Period.
Here's the bottom line, in convenient point form.
- ETrade hasn't 'caved in' on anything over RedHat.
- The SEC hasn't even NOTICED anything about RedHat.
- You haven't won any 'victories.'
- You're not big enough to affect the price of RedHat stock.
- You're not big enough to change anything about the stock market.
- You probably don't know enough about stocks to understand why
you will make or lose money on RedHat when the dust clears.
- You stand a good chance of losing money by buying into RedHat
as a first 'serious investment.'
If you think otherwise on any of these points, you're deluding
yourself. Even if RedHat turns into the next IBM or Microsoft,
these points are still valid.
Now go, trade if you will, make or lose money depending on the
market, but don't think for a second that you're important enough
to be noticed.
As a final point, consider that the general public's attitude
of geeks/nerds might well be validated if the level of whining
gets too loud. "Look Martha, them nerds don't even know how to
open an Etrade account. Even we managed to do that! Guess they're
just a whiny bunch who ain't so smart afterall."
In short, Deal with it.
cgb
Believe it. I was given the opportunity to take the test a second time, and was indeed told that E*Trade didn't check anything, and it was indeed implied that I could lie, and E*Trade wouldn't know the difference
I was _NOT_ offered reassurances that I would pass the second time; the person who wrote the report did some interpretation of their own, and added their own spin.
In fact, I didn't pass the second time; I'm not going to lie just to get in on this. End of story.
No, you can't invest in an **>IPO** because you're not qualified. You can certainly invest in the stock market. Go buy some shares in Disney.
:-) but you get the point here.
Reality slap people: the stockmarket is a highly regulated entity. Las Vegas is not. (or, actually, LV is more so: Las Vegas is one of a small # of places in the country where gambling is totally legal, state lotteries notwithstanding).
Just for the record, in the early eighties, the ENTIRE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS was prohibited from participating in one IPO of a small computer company because the state securities commission ruled that it was too speculative (IPOs have to be approved in each and every of the 50 states -- didn't know that, did'ja?). That small computer company? Apple.
Of course, one could make the argument that the Massachusetts SEC did them a favor
"Misinformed Mr. Poag" - I swore 'Bowie J. Poag' was the DEFINITION of uninformed.
I wish someone would have posted his entire letter - they're always good for a ton of laughs (and a slander/libel suit or two)
How does E*Trade know who got the letter and who didn't? Do they have a list from RedHat?
Maybe Im slow, or maybe its just because i didn't get the infamous "Letter" but as far as I can tell you can't even begin the IPO process yet...the expression of interest phase hasn't begun yet according to E*Trade's IPO Center page.
Any clarification?
--
> you misspelled 'organized'. hope this helps.
actually, "organised" is how that word is spelled in england and, given the posters email address domain ".au", in australia too.
Yes, I was confused too. So I picked up that
thing with the MOUTHPIECE and the EARPIECE
and the BUTTONS, and I CALLED the special
Red hat support line at E*Trade, and y'know
what? My account is completely ready. Elapsed
time less than four business days.
I'll be highly amused if a bunch of people
miss out on this purely because they are
allergic to old technology. It wouldn't be
the first time. Certain acquaintances of
mine whined forever about the difficulty
of opening an E*Trade account. Not
coincidentally, they don't use phones either.
Check out the Apostrophe open-source CMS: http://www.apostrophenow.com/
> you misspelled 'lose'. hope this helps.
god, what are you, an ispell bot? at least you're right this time. people who spell "lose" as "loose" really annoy me.
--
Actually, no. E-Trade specifically says that the only people that can indicate interest are those who got the letter. If you did not, you stand a chance of forfeiting a future interest in other IPOs.
We're a neural net. You can't possibly understand the thought processes of a machine in which you are merely one cell.
Tom
Well. I did it. I called them up and told E*TRADE I had 'forgotten' some information, and would like to update my profile.
They helpfully reset it for me. A little later I did it again on the web, and *bing* got in.
Lied like crazy however. Doubled my yearly income, liquid assets, etc..
I feel kind've icky. Ah well. It'll pass.
But if people aren't allowed to flip, wouldn't trading volume be lower (actually zero, if everybody respected the rule). And low volume stocks are known to be more volatile. So, can anybody explain me the mechanism of this restriction?
No, other people can participate as well 1 week later, but they have a far lower probability of getting any shares.
More importantly, stocks with few shares outstanding are volatile.
On the day of an IPO, you see the volume of shares traded to be in the millions. For instance when musicmaker.com came out, there were over 17 million shares traded. Well, musicmaker.com only issued 12 million shares!!!
So many of these shares actually passed through dozens of buyers. This causes a stock to become incredibly volatile, when there is a lot of action with so few shares outstanding.
Intel, on the other hand, regularly sees 20 million shares traded in a day. While far from a predictable stock, you do not see such huge jumps because there are over 1.6 billions shares outstanding.
Low volume stocks are only more volatile when there are very few shares outstanding.
hope that helps...
As far as I've understood this whole matter, you should be blaming the SEC, not Red Hat. Writing to your local congressman or something would be a more sensible approach.
/El Niño
That OSS people want to make money as much as everyone else in the world?
E*Trade has grown way beyond its ability to properly care for its customers. I will use E*Trade to the end of the year (because of my investment plan with them), and then move all of my accounts to a competitor. That competitor has even answered my email in two days, somenthing you will *never* get from E*Trade.
My suggestion: get your IPO stocks on E*Trade and then transfer your account to another online broker; it's worth the cost.
--
that RedHat "didnt realize" how restrictive E*Trade's qualifications were going to be for IPO investment. I don't think i'm going to be buying stock from a company that "doesn't realize" how restrictive and dangerous the stock market can be. E*Trade has such harsh rules because they don't want Joe Idiot losing his life savings on Acme Linux and then suing E*Trade because they didn't warn him that he was an idiot. Although I think E*Trade's qualifications were a bit too harsh, RedHat should have gotten their information before they offered developers first dibs on their IPO. This makes me believe RedHat isn't quite ready for the intensity of Wall Street.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
You seemed incoherent in your message. Talking about Etrade, saying RedHat is innocent, blahblah, then suddenly switch to: I ain't be doing any RedHat rpms, will do them for Mandrake!
I think you should stop taking drugs or something.
Anyway, who cares about what you do?
I don't.
However, it was a funny message, in a very stupid way!
Kill Microsoft? No! Just hire their GUI guys!
In that case, it's hardly worth buying, unless you expect the company to do exceptionally well over the next few weeks.
Take for example, BeOS. It IPO'd at $6/share, surged to $10/share, and is now at around $6.50/share. If you could sell on the first day, you could be rich. If you had to hold onto it, you made virtually no money. If you couldn't get in on the IPO, and bought it at the market opening price (around $7), then you lost money.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I got an etrade account now what do i do ?
Well, both Be, Inc., and Mp3.com sell stuff. Be sells its OS, and mp3.com sells CDs of its artists. Neither of their stocks is doing well.
However, neither Be, mp3.com, or Red Hat turn a profit.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Actually, no. Read the other thread. A guy called the SEC, and was told that there are no regulations whatsoever regarding the financial status of anyone who wants to get in on the IPO. That's silly.
When the guy called Etrade back, it changed from "SEC regulations" to "house rules", end of story.
--
DITTO. I'd give you a moderation point, if I could. I still have no answer from Etrade, but, even if they do, eventually, get their shit together, I will be giving them the same exact set of answers I gave the first time.
Maybe that's considered strange and quaint these days, but I do not lie like that. Even though Etrade silly questionnaire is an obvious sham that everyone can see through, I never had a habit of lying about my financial status, and I do not have a reason to do it again.
--
FYI,
..Their answer was "Technically, no. However, if we found out about it, we would probably freeze your assets, recover any money you made from the IPO, and possibly get the SEC involved." Now, E-Trade says "We dont perform background checks."
The very day I recieved my IPO invitation from Red Hat, I called E-Trade's Red Hat IPO Hotline and asked them a series of questions..One of the questions was, "You realize, that pretty much all of us are 18-24 year olds with very little money, very little trading experience, and very little net worth...How is this "eligibility profile" going to affect our ability to participate?" , and I was told by no less than three separate operators that day that the eligibility profile would have absolutely no bearing on our ability to participate. That story quickly changed within the next 2-3 days to, "Sorry, you wont be allowed to participate. SEC rules."
When I began to hear stories of people being rejected via the eligibility profile, I called back and asked "Is there anything legally binding us to tell the truth on this eligibility profile?"
E-Trade is not giving you permission to lie. I dont think E-Trade is a bad company either.. I just think they got caught with their pants down when trying to handle all of us. No big deal, shit happens, and E-Trade is well within their right to change their mind..either in our favor, or not in our favor.
Given all the noise about this eligibility profile, I've held off on indicating my interest, in hopes that E-Trade would clarify their stance on the issue. Thankfully, I dont have to indicate my interest until August 7th, which give the situation some time to develop. When I do fill it out, i'm not going to lie, either. I suggest you do the same..There may be hell to pay if E-Trade *does* decide to start looking into your financial history.
Bowie
Bowie J. Poag
It seems that the geeks have defeated the SEC.
"In no uncertain terms, he proceeded to tell me that ETrade did not do background checks, would not attempt to discover if I lied, and implied that if I thought about it, and was willing to lie, I could fill out the form in such a way that it would accept me," Sparger said.
:)
Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. This is the way it works, apparently. *Everyone* lies.
It is unfortunate that you will not be able to flip them however.
Just about every single IPO I have watched and dealt with over the past two years has surged the first day, and then proceeded to drop consistently over the next few days and weeks.
Ideally, you could get it at the offering, sell, and then buy again after the initial surge.
It is interesting that IPO's have only had a 5% average annual return (from the secondary market) over the past ten years. Unfortunately, these are not the best things to be holding onto... now matter how novel the business is.
"We don't do background checks, and we have no way of knowing if you answer the questionaire truthfully."
Truly fascinating that they would state this so openly.
Christopher A. Bohn
cb
Oooh! What does this button do!?
Give me a break!
Werd.
Nor are these the only tech stocks plunging. According to several articles I've read, tech stocks are collapsing in value, especially Internet stuff.
In an environment of doom, gloom, and rush selling, I don't know whether buying into Red Hat right now would be a wise move. Sure, if things pick up, just before the IPO, those putting their money in will earn a small fortune. Red Hat is one of the few companies making money, and has a good public image.
On the other hand, I can't help but suspect that bargain-hunters will be able to pick the shares up for less, the following week or so. When the shareholders panic, they've all the wits and wisdom of lemmings. Only without the cuteness quotient.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Now - if you were screened out the first time due to financial background or trading experience, I don't want to hear a single complaint about how you lost your money on this investment. Kapisch?! :) (Of course, I hope no one loses... but I really don't know how this thing will go!)
Could someone tell me why they even bother to do the questionaire if they encourage people to lie on them. Doesn't anyone value honesty anymore?
Was I the only one confused about just how to open an E*Trade account in time to get into this thing?
I filled out the forms, etc. on the E*Trade site. Then I'm supposed to send in my check for at least $1000. Ok. So, far so good. Then, I'm supposed to get information back in the mail that confirms that my account is actually open, with some kind of confirmation number or something?
The question I have is: When is the account technically open? And how am I supposed to open an account and express interest in an IPO (with all these potential USPS delays) with only a week to get it done?
Sorry if this is a double post. My mouse got away from me, it's a bit feisty this morning...
Well, it's good to the hackers are the only ones who suffer from News Media Term Re-Definition Syndrome.
I suggest we make a new name "The Wired Effect" for overloading websites linked to by /.
snafu
"It didn't take long for the open source community's propaganda machine to swing
:) I for one am terribly amused...
into action, known as the "Slashdot Effect" after the community's favored news site"
LOL - they make us sound so... so organised. Maybe that'll prove the open source community doens't need a board of directors and a CEO to get things done.
AdamT
... with eskimo chains i tatto my brain all the way...
This ia a good example of how traditional ways of doing things just don't jibe with reality. Sure, some folks who participate in the IPO might loose some cash, but the almost instant response from the community to a practice that it deemed silly and not relevant and the reaction from the folks at e-trade really point out that business as usual doesn't always work with the OSS community. I'm stating the obvious, but I think it's pretty significant.
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
I wish all you Script Kiddies would grow up a little bit. You have no idea how the whole stock market work. Unlike in your 'Play World', there are rules in the real world so problems don't happen as often. If you've paying attention to the BeOS IPO, you'll notice that it's stock peeked and has now returned to almost the same price it opened at a week ago. This means a bunch of people earned a lot of money, it also means a lot of people have lost money. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens with RHAT and you all loose your money.
--
I've seen a lot of people complaining that they couldn't get things done in time, couldn't find the link, etc. If you're serious about this, and you're having problems, then CALL E*Trade! There were some problems with their web site, etc. The phone support was helpful, and they were able to take care of all the problems I encountered. I ended up talking to a broker rather than using the web site. What a concept. :-)
You were not offered stock. You were offered the chance to apply for participation in this IPO, subject to all the standard rules and regulations of the E*Trade corporation and various governing bodies. What made this offer special is that you are in a smaller pool of applicants, making it more likely that if you are eligible, you may actually receive an allocation. It was stated in the letter that you would be subject to screening based on your financial background and investing experience, and a link was provided so that you could see exactly what this screening would entail.
Oh, and look at that. It seems that all the bitching and whining has had an effect.... E*Trade backed down!
I wouldn't say that they backed down - they gave you a chance to "correct errors" on your screening application. Their ass is still covered.
E-trade is NOT, repeat, NOT backing down and "letting people in" as the misinformed Mr. Poag claims. They are simply saying "hey, sorry you're not worthy, but if you feel like breaking the law and lying to us, we won't stop you." In other words, they are washing their hands of the whole affair - when people lie to them, and end up losing lots of money, they'll be able to say "well, we're not responsible, they lied to us, book 'em Danno."
This is not a victory for anyone who got rejected the first time, this is E-trade trying to save some face while further covering their ass. Don't believe the hype.
Anyone out there that got an invitation willing to pull together money and split the profits/stocks later? I just want to get in as close to the ground floor as possible then of course sell high for a quick profit. So who do i write the check too?
"People who buy stupid-ass shoes then complain about how uncomfortable they are should be kicked in the shin by someone in comfortable shoes." Anon
There is a separate Indication of Interest part of the website for letter holders, that has already opened. The general Indication of Interest has *not* yet opened. So if you received a letter, you can access the password/email address protected part of the IPO site.
Believe me, even if the entire OS community decides to hang on, Red Hat's stock will still soar and fall.
Almost every single IPO that has had anything to do with the Internet has followed that pattern. If you sell, you are not going to be hurting Red Hat... I am sure they are expecting this volatility. In fact, it will help them in getting news and notoriety "Hot Stocks".
Red Hat wants to raise capital and get noticed. They stand no chance of insuring long-term stock price stability initially.
How do you go about finding this out? Whether institutional investors are investing, that is...
Etrade did not back down under pressure from the community. I called the hotline the same day I received the email and asked what the qualifications for the eligibility questionaire were. The woman on the phone then told me that as long as you picked "growth" and some experience you would probably get through and they don't do background checks to verify the data. This was about a week before the uproar.
Remember, there is a buyer for every person selling (they just might not be willing to pay as much).
Most of the initial IPO purchasers are going to be institutional buyers, who are going to dump their shares into the public as fast as they possibly can. Our community here will make absolutely no impact whatsoever.
Splitting a stock is a choice of the company, it does not just happen. And no company has ever split their stock in the first month.
Go to a full-service broker.
The extra money that you will pay for commisions initially is worth being able to speak with someone when you need to.
Umm... I was under the impression that Red Hat, in fct, was turning a (small) profit...
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
I have said this before, and I will say it again:
When it comes to investing, geeks generally lose a lot of money.
First: Most of you are idealists. You want the best technology available to succeed, and strongly believe that it WILL succeed.
--- But we can all name countless situations where the best technology has failed miserably.
Second: You try too hard. The best organization in America when it comes to picking stocks is the NAIC, or Investor's clubs... which are mainly composed of old ladies who meet once a month to buy stock!
To quote Peter Lynch,
"If you spend 2 minutes a year studying the economy, you'll have just wasted a minute and half."
Pick a good company with a steady earnings and good prospects for growth, evaluate its fundamentals and buy it. Hold on to it, and if you can, buy more if the stock price drops.
That is how you can become rich with stocks. But that is way too easy for most geeks!!!
:)
You can read Red Hat's S-1 filing at http: //www.freeedgar.com/Search/ViewFilingsContentNF.as p?CIK=1087423&Directory=1047469&Year=99& SECIndex=23237&Extension=.tst&PathFlag=0&TextFileS ize=&DateFiled=6/4/99&FormType=S-1&SFTyp e=&SDFiled=&SourcePage=FilingsResults&UseFrame=0&C ompanyName=RED+HAT+INC.
They reported a $130,000 loss for 1Q 1999. That's a quite small loss compared to most internet-related companies, but it's still a loss.
I don't know if they turned a profit in 1998 or not.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Arctangent vs. the economic structures of the world - film at 11.
(Just knowing someone like Arc would invest in Redhack tells should tell you to RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!... but maybe I'm being too hard on him. I'd just love to read his letters to the other stockholders in his fervent attempts to rile them to action... might cause many years of unneeded litigation concerning the posting freedoms exploited by Mr. Poag...)
Well, yes, two days may seem long, but remember I am used to E*Trade delays ;--)
Anyway, transactions on this system take place withn 30 secs or so (at market value), so I am not worried. I'd go to a full-service broker if I needed the additional features (which I don't use), or stock suggestions (which I don't trust).
Then again, my IRA is with a full-service broker...
I'll be watching to see how many institutional investors pick up on this. If I see a lot of them then hope you get your shares early, if not watch for a couple of weeks, you'll get a better deal.. unless of course the market reverses and the techs start rising again. Earnings are almost over, most the big guys have reported without much success so unless a lot of institutions buy in the open market I'm sure we will see Red Hat do what most of the rest of the new tech IPO's have done.. run up, run down, run up, run down... just gotta catch the right down.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein
Where did you hear that from? Everything I've heard says that they lose money just like most other tech IPO companies. Wasn't there an article on /. about SuSe bragging that they actually turned a profit as compared to Redhat bleeding money?
I also doubt whether Redhat has a good public image. I wouldn't doubt the general public thinks that Redhat is competing with Microsoft; I doubt most people think that's a good long term position. Users of linux do not form a majority of the public.
Damn, I can't stop replying to this thread...
Well, anyway. Let's try to clear up some more misunderstanding.
Red Hat is having an IPO. They are issuing public shares for the first time. Some people will be able to get in at the initial price (currently estimated at $10-$12 per share) which is set before the stock trades publicly. Often, this price is significantly below the price that the stock will see on the first day of trading. On the first day of trading, anyone and their dog can buy shares by calling their broker or clicking their browser.
You did not need to get "the letter" in order to get in on the initial price. E*Trade customers and customers of other brokerages also have this opportunity. However, Joe Blow E*Trade customer will be competing with thousands of people for an allotment of shares. On E*Trade, it used to be first-come first-served, but now it's a lottery system, with shares allocated in 100-share chunks.
However, Red Hat has set aside 800,000 shares to be "directed" to the open source community. That's what the letter did - it gives you a (possibly) better chance to actually have shares allocated to you out of this pool, rather than the general public pool. It guarantees that up to 8,000 people will be able to purchase at leat 100 shares each. Of course, you must be eligible to participate in the IPO in the first place.
Getting the URL, the phone number, or the password from the letter will not help you out if you didn't actually receive the letter. E*Trade is screening for this - they know who Red Hat sent the letter to originally. If you try, you will most likely be barred from ever participating in any IPO through E*Trade in the future. Them's the breaks.
Despite the hype that has been going around lately concerning the RedHat IPO, the real reason for an IPO is to generate capital and ENSURE LONG TERM STABILITY for the new stock. All of the people out there who are thinking "OH, I'll just jump in early and Sell high" will most likely be hurting Red Hat in the long term. While this might seem fine on the surface, much of the IT community is watching this IPO to determin the stability of the Open Source community. If Red Hat does well initially, and then the OSS community SELLS HIGH, and Red Hat plunges, what kind of message will that send to the general (IT) public?
Just a thought.
I just phoned them and cleared it all up.
It's the 1-888 number in the letter.
Will in Seattle
Heck, we're not one of those old, tired "Machines". We're one of those new, cool "Bots".
Never mind that it's 20th Century, they think it's new, so revel in your "Bot" status.
Resistance is Futile.
Will in Seattle
There is absolutely no reason what so ever why the "old" way shouldn't work in this case. Unless you want to try to make the claim that open source software developers are super savvy financial whiz kids compared to the average investor...they simply are poor.
Face it, for most people (OSS developers included), investing in Redhat makes about as much sense (and was thought out as thoroughly) as investing in the IPO of a company with the same name as your favorite color.
Get off the OSS developers are the pinnacle of human evolution and no rules should bind them trip. Unless, of course, you can give one actual reason for why investing business as usual shouldn't apply to the OSS community? Maybe they shouldn't be bound by insider trading rules as well? And maybe their bank deposits shouldn't be federally insured? Maybe companies shouldn't have to disclose their earnings to OSS developers?
Why is etrade? I intended to get my hands on some of that... but I don't use etrade....
=1000101
I don't care if some moderator got his feelings hurt and marked your post "Flamebait". You've made a real good point.
Here's a taste of irony -- Hey slashdotters! You know those suits you guys like to call idiots? The ones who can't figure out how to get a dial-up connection in Linux?
Guess what -- your cluelessness about stock trading, the SEC, and IPOs makes you an idiot next to those suits. They're snickering because you can't figure out how to set up an E*Trade account. They're shaking their heads because you have ZERO experience with investing, but suddenly you want to get in on the ground floor of an IPO -- real safe way to spend money, that. I guess putting that extra $1000 in an index fund is too boring -- gotta get in on the open-source internet stock craze!
Best of all, you're bitching about it! Hundreds of serious investors have managed to set up accounts with E*Trade, but it's too darn complicated for "geeks". Let's flame them for trying to protect us from our own inexperience!
You guys mock the suits, but now you're in their arena, playing their game. If you don't make any money, maybe you'll at least learn some humility.
That doesn't say that E-Trade is backing down at all.