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Color Palms Announced
viking099 writes "Palm announces Color Pilots - to be shipped the first half of next year. This should ensure Palms' dominance. " I have to imagine that the battery life is going to be bad on these new Palms - anyone have more details? Still, all things considered, another good move by 3Com.
Since I don't own a palm, what type of batteries do they use in the first place?
The battery life might be just fine. Look at what happened with the color Game Boys...those things are SO good with the batteries, it's not funny.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
Seems we were just speculating on the announcement of the DragonBall VZ chips with color LCD support and here comes the new pilots.
Color LCDs have really come to age. They are now using super-reflective backgrounds and many of them are able to rechannel ambient light towards the screen. Look at some of the newer DV and digital cameras (from Casio among others) for examples.
Darn, I have a HandSpring on order too. Hmm.
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT d-- a? C++ UX+ L++ P++ E--- W+++$ N++ o-- !K !w O---- M++$ !V PS++
I hate to say it, but the color screens still suck power like a madman, and the quality still blows. It seems that our friends at Palm are feeling the pressure from recent competitors, (i.e. Handspring) and as such are trying to rush the 'next big thing' to market to try to conserve market share. It may even work.
;)
Meanwhile, I'll be reading about all of it on my Visor Deluxe....
Hopefully 3Com will get their act more together with Handspring breathing down their necks. A nice color Palm with a form factor of a V. A wireless model off of the VII with color would be marvelous also. They are definitely on the right track with color palms. This was about the only detractor when people were comparing PalmOS with WinCE. But, I can't imagine Handspring being TOO far behind the curve here with their own color models. I would guess that once they get past their current production delays, then into Christmas, they will probably wait and see how the technology goes and announce some stuff around early next year. Now we need a color PDQ. Color PalmOS, plus cellular phone. Woo hoo!
Where the wind blows, the tumbleweed goes.
...I'd like to add an addendum to my comment, if I may. The quality of the color LCDs doesn't blow per se, just the cost/quality ratio. I have a feeling that if they are of a decent quality, they may be too expensive to be a serious competitor to other hand-held devices...
It's not really color screens that suck battery power. It's the backlight that drains it the most. Look at Gameboy Color for an example of a color LCD device with a remarkably long battery life.
This will be tricky, though. What Palm will have to do if it wants to keep its battery life long is to use one of the super-reflective displays with a backlight that can be turned on and off, as with the current Palm devices. The backlight will still drain power, of course, but only when it's on (as with the current Palm screens), and thus will have only a minimal impact on bettery life (no more than it currently does).
I'm not sure if this actually possible with the current super-reflective LCD's; the backing might be too opaque to allow for backlights (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that, because I hope I am). It's better than the two alternatives, though: a battery-draining handheld or a clip-on light for the non-backlit screen.
I wonder if someone will be offering a trade-in program for Palm III's...
I had no option other than viewing porn in b/w, and uploading it to my 512k of memory via the serial port.. These palm pilots now.. well, i guess not only can i view my porn in colour, but i can use the IR interface to upload. Thats nuts :)
But there is one thing that doesnt work with me as far as small devices go... they dont mix with back pockets and a poor memory. Sitting on a palm is no good, and 3 mobile phones... well.. im just not hip to the new microsize millenium vibe.
:wq ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Sounds like sour grapes from one who's tech has just been eclipsed.
PalmPilots were meant to have color "as soon as it becomes feasible and offers value to consumers." I know many who want more then web clippings.
If the rumors are true, you will get comparable battery life, still reasonable battery life and colour to boot. docGui
I almost safe to say that you can compare the color palm to the gbc.
When the gbc was first anounced people did they saem thing they are doing now. Going "WAAHH! what about battery life?" and "WAHH! We don't need color". And "WAHH!! what about the older games?"
Well, turns out that not only does the gc use only TWO batteries(as opposed to 4 on the orginal) they last ALOT longer then 4 on the orginal gbc.
About color. People thought "tetris only needs four colors of cabbage green". Well, also turns out that things really do look ALOT better in color. Even games that weren't ment to have color, using some of the default pallets.
And finally, about the applications. Some people thought that the GBC would split the gameboy market into color and non-color. Turns out that the vast majority of gbc games also work on a normal gb. A couple not all the way mind you(extra maze in Zelda dx is an example) but that's few and far between.
So I think very much will happen with the color Palms. Color will catch on nicely. Battery life will IMPROVE. And there will be nice backward b&w compatability with older aps, and new aps will run in a b&w mode much like most gbc titles do now.
Hey, who colored my palm?
:)
You know, until I went to the article, I thought you meant the *case* was in different colors. Silly me.
You do realize that you can easily duplicate the functionality of a Palm Pilot with, say, a cheap notebook and a pencil, with a calculator and say a deck of cards for good measure. This has the side effect of greatly increasing its ease-of-use, and is a lot cheaper.
(but what do you mean I can't dock my notebook? I have to scan it? That's too hard!
---
pb Reply rather than vaguely moderate me.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
The question is, will the new 33 MHz Motorola CPU be fast enough? My Palm V is fast with most PDA type stuff, but when I run Quicksheet or StarPilot, it's somewhat sluggish, even when I use Afterburner at 29 MHz (though it's not as slow as the WinCE devices).
Assuming the color interface eats up more CPU time, it seems like 33 MHz isn't going to give us much more capabilities other than color. I still am wondering why Motorola doesn't come out with a 100+ MHz variable speed CPU like the StrongARM.
On a different topic, does anyone know what kind of color screen Palm is considering? Is it going to be the same technology as the low-power Color Gameboy screen? How's it going to perform in sunlight?
In any case, this is good news!
If I know Palm, and I'm not saying I do, I'd guess that they'll keep at least one monochrome, entry-level model. At this rate, it looks like the Palm IIIx or IIIe would be that model. If they crack the $100 price point with the Palm OS, I see big things in the future for the Palm line. More importantly, it'll satisfy those people who still prefer the look of monochrome screens. Personally, I don't think I'd buy one of those devices until sufficiently many color apps were to be available.
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I was wondering if anybody has a good explanation for why the palms use AAA batteries?. From the stats I've seen AA's get almost twice as many mWH (milla watt hours) and they're nearly as small. Seems like it's a big tradeoff.
Click here to read too much about my personal life
--
the hairy palms.
Just a suspicion.
I was just thinking that the word "pilot" could have really helped out the title of this article.
(Thank god it didn't contain the word "hairy")
I dont think work will be buying me one of these anyways though. damn.
--Evan
In other news, the TRGPro (www.trgpro.com) was announced. It's basically a modified Palm IIIx produced by TRG (makers of FlashPro and various memory upgrades) to include a Compact Flash slot. The device includes 8M ram and 2M flash, and will retail for about $320 when it is released in December.
Yes, colour LCDs are getting their chance now that they're actually useable (anyone looked at an old 386 laptop recently?)
The Psion series 7 is available now as a larger version of the Series 5 with full colour as well.
I'm not actually that big on the difference between colour and grayscale on a handheld (coming from someone who owns a Messagepad), but as they get cheaper, it'll be nice for the sake of what we'll be doing with them.
For the sake of browsing the web, etc. though, I'd still rather be using a Psion type machine than a Palm although a Palm is definately better for "in your pocket" quickly writing in an appointment.
- Michael T. Babcock <homepage>
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Only for the old-timers like you and me. They were just Pilots when first introduced. The second iteration were Palm Pilots. By the third model series, the Pilot moniker had completely disappeared and they were just Palms. The OS, on the other hand, was always PalmOS.
I long for the days when I could call it my Pilot. "Honey, have you seen my Palm?" always gets me a strange stare from my wife.
Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
I don't even want color. What I want . . .
Is a portable telnet (actually SSH) box.
Specs:
- fold out "full size" keyboard. I have seen what I want on TV, about 4x4x.5 inches folds out then "squeezes" together to align the keys properly.
- "half height" 80 column display (wide aspect ratio.
- Build in cellular/modem for data connection.
The whole thing folds to 4x4x1.8 or so.
Why? Who cares how fast the proc is. SSH to my home box . . . 400mhz and 26gb of HDD. Great for typing notes in class, coding on the subway/bus, even reading slashdot with lynx!
-Pete
Moderator, read the top again before you moderate me "off topic". Pleeeease don't kill my karma!
But you _do_ need to buy seven Dragon Balls before they do anything.
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
Colour is a valid feature. Just like TRG-whatever's CompactFlash card is a valid feature. There is a compromise with some of these new features, but there is a compromise without them too. You're compromising in not having colour, you're compromising in not having a CF slot - just like you're compromising on performance to get the size, or price to get the style. I personally prefer the choice to be mine.
i wonder if the ROMs/emulator and API are going to be opne or closed ? The older versions used to be open but now they require you to physically sign an agreement before allowing access to roms/apis/source...no electronic access.
Wow, this will be cool. Have the jacked up the rest of the unit as well? I assume it will have all the other components bandwith increased to deal with the new higher video demands?
-- Moondog
I want color!
People take this funny philosophical stance against color. Granted, color isn't required to satisfy the functions of a Pilot, but neither is the PDA itself (I could still use a daytimer). PDA's offer speed and compactness in the same sense that color can help visualize the data stored in the machine. Neither is required, but both are nice. Seems like an obvious choice so far...
Some argue that color sucks off too much power. However, with the rate that technology develops, there's no doubt that battery life will evolve to match the increase in consumption. Laptops with 10" screens used to last 30 minutes on bulky batteries. Today's portables can play full-length DVDs with plenty to spare.
Color certainly doesn't affect the size of the PDA. And to that effect, competition will shrink them down, too. Processors will get faster and smaller, memory cheaper yet, and wireless networks more prevalent.
I for one want a powerful electronic tool in my shirt pocket. I want to be able to play 3D games, browse the Internet, watch TV, video conference, listen to music, etc. If you're among those of you who believe on principle that PDAs should be limited to black-and-white phone numbers, you're setting yourself up to be left behind.
Injured software engineer wins against Mattel!
I know a thread already mentioned handspring, but I have to ask this: Has HS replied on this yet? Are they planning on putting out their color Visors in the same time frame or not? I placed my order for the Visor 2 weeks ago and am still waiting on confirmation. I'm wondering how is HS going to deal with the tech changing before they can even ship the old tech. I'm also wondering what this news is going to due to my "queue status" for my order. I wonder how many people canceled their Visor orders in anticipation of this move. Hmm -- I might be one of them!
SL33ZE, MCSD
em: joedipshit@hotmail.com
SL33ZE - Artificial Intelligence is No Match For Natural Stupidity -
I remember reading that is was possible to install the kernel on to your palm. However X wasn't operable under it, because they would have to write custom display drivers for it.
Not sure how valid the rumor is, but I think it would be sooo awesome to have COLOR x on my portable palmtop! any ideas / suggestions?
--Brian
Or you could just get rechargable batteries and not have to deal with the damn wire (paying for itself). Palms can run for weeks on 'em.
that one of the common complaints against palm-sized pcs was colour :P
:P
guess some people will have to change their arguments now that a non-ms standard has introduced colour.
by the way, the proper way to spell colour is colour
What I've found (in my somewhat limited experience) is that it's not the processor that's slow with a WinCE device, but rather the screen. The colour WinCE devices that have come out feel so much more responsive than the greyscale devices and the only real difference is the screen.
Still, I guess it doesn't matter why a device feels sluggish since it feels sluggish....
Very cool.
Maybe by that time I'll actually be able to afford one (Senioritis is setting in) -- or maybe Handspring will come out with a Color Visor.
Anyone want to bet that the next major wave goes to the PDA company that ships Palm-like products with translucent, fruit colored cases?
-- Dave Rat
Before reading the article, I was terrified that the Palm's would be fruity colors like another popular computer system. I'm so relieved and overjoyed to hear the screen will be colorized, but they will not follow Apples marketing strategy. What I really want to know is when will my Palm Pilot be as useful as a Startrek tricorder/phaser? *sign* One can dream.
Expect the IIIc(olor) to have a full-time back lit display... unlakie the GBcolor...
Yes, but whats that got to do with the price of tea in D'ni?
Here's an interesting factoid about the Palm community on Slashdot:
I keep my talkback threshold set to 2 (except when I'm moderating), and with most articles, I end up seeing between 5 and 15 percent of the articles. When a palm article hits, I see around 25% of the articles!
I'll have to keep tabs on what these Palm folks have to say...
Take a look at psion's web site for more information.. then take a look at pricewatch to find it cheap. Good luck!
When screen real estate is at a premium as it is on the Palm, color can be a very useful way to encode information. Unless you're color blind...
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
dammit jim...
i just got a handspring.
ERROR: Keyboard not attached. Press F-1 to continue.
I own several small Japanese consumer electronics devices (a few minidisc player/recorders and a digital camera) that use lithium ion batteries. I have found these batteries to be excellent, they last for ~16 hours and recharge in ~3. Additionally the batteries do not need to be removed from the devices to charge... I have never seen an american made device with such sensible battery choice... I would love it if the Color Palms used lith-ion batteries that charged while in the cradle... if the unit charges when in the cradle, the battery life need not be that long, only as long as you expect to be away from the cradle... (at the most a total running time of a few hours?)
We love them, we take them out for walks and most of all, they do their job.
I like having a color display, but that by itself will not ensure dominance and I hope that noone at 3COM is believing this.
What I see happening is something like Bluetooth joining PCs, Cellphones, PDAs, Watches, Telephones, Modems together. And I hope that Palms will fit very nicely into this picture.
If the processors are fast enough, now Color Gameboy emulation is possible on a Palm! Game Gear! NES!
one day I may actually get a palm.. just for that.
Palm dominates now because they have ease-of-use, battery life, and a form factor that's much better than Microsoft's devices. Not because of color. I can see how color could be an enhancement to some aspects of the user experience (like, for instance, overdue to-do entries appearing in red), but the danger for Palm is that, although current small device color screens are pretty good, they are likely to require a larger form factor and burn more battery.
It all ties in to what a Palm is for "the average users". I, for one, use a Palm not because it has color - this didn't even enter into my thinking when I bought it. I use a Palm because it fits into a pocket, runs for a long time on a charge, and works with my Mac just as well as it works with my PC (except my Mac can't sync AvantGo yet). If color spoils either the size or battery life, I'll stick with my Palm III, thank you very much.
(or maybe I'll get one of those slick HandSprings - but I digress...)
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Meanwhile, I'll be reading about all of it on my Visor Deluxe.... ;)
Sorry, just a silly thought here...
D'you think they'll make a visor with a black case like the IBM Workpad c3? And if so,d'you think they might be able to call it the Dark Visor?
Sorry...
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
xENTROPYx said: I hate to say it, but the color screens still suck power like a madman
Bollocks. My colour gbc lasts for weeks. I went on holiday with it and played for two hours a day, and it lasted a fortnight on two walkman batteries.
It's backlighting that eats batteries. Reflective colour LCDs don't use backlighting so it ain't a problem.
Light emission = heat emission = energy drain
Light reflection = no heat emission = no energy drain
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
The credit card's name was Selma. I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I think it stood for "Specified Encapsulated Limitless Memory Archive."
Fun show. And yes, I would love a PDA as capable as Selma. Until then I'll stick with my Palm Vx and VII.
Color displays are not the one-true-way to defeat Mr. Gates CE, but it sure would help.
Considering how much LCD displays have matured recently the color-screen Palm probably wouldn't have to be *much* larger than the III's.
If the unit would be small it would attract a lot of the CE users, as the 'sexiness' is a very important thing for many. Problem is that a lot of people do not realize the difference between the two platforms. They see the PalmV, which is slick, then they see the CE with color-display and cry out "Waoaow, thaaat's what I want daddy!!". And even though such users probably wouldn't add much to the Palm community, their money sure is wanted...
Conclusion: Color displays are not the only thing, but they really would help attract a lot of users - and their dough.
Does this mean that if it crashes, will my new Palm will finally display the Blue Screen Of Death?
(BTW, I have a IIIx, and it's only crashed when I was hacking around on a small program, which was on a buggy API at the time)
Sure, a color screen is neat, but does it improve the usability of the Palm at all? Probably not. The main purpose for Palm (and the competition) systems is to be a useful tool. I don't see the device itself changing a lot other than being color. The interface is what's important, I mean, look at how un-userfriendly WinCE is, even with color.
So if people want to pay extra for a color screen, then more power to 'em. I don't think it will really be worth it until it's a standard for a color screen on all Palm devices... I'm not about to rush out and pay extra for it right away.
I ordered a Handspring Visor, so when I'm ready to upgrade from that (next year? two?) then I'd go for a color screen unit.
It's already available at Sun's Java web site for all the "early access" people. The startup is a little slow, but once it's going it runs fine - not much difference between Java apps and native palm apps. The virtual machine takes a "whopping" 114k and the test apps are all in the 10-20k range. Give it a try!
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
NT
Man, I'm really torn now. See, my fiancee really wants my Palm III, which of course means I need to buy myself a replacement. Do I go ahead and get a Visor Deluxe, or should I hold out a while longer and keep sharing my III until something new comes along? I'm also kind of reluctant to get the Visor right now, until there's some word about how to get the PalmOS 3.3 update into those suckers.
--
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III / NIC Handle: EMC3
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III
geek ramblings
Sort-of like shelf paper for your PDA.
Yes, to be able to "watch TV, surf the web, teleconference" is nice, and yes, taking a stance against colour can "set [us] up to be left behind,".
However, developing colour should not come at a sacrifice in further refining basic PDA features: affordability, portability, simplicity, display clarity.
Not that Palm's aren't wonderful as they are, but it'd be more interesting to see them perfect the core bits . Haven't seen one in a while, so maybe they have.
Who knows though, maybe a colour (as a means of encoding info) will keep me better organised. I'm just waiting my middle-class butt can easily afford one.
(hm. I wonder if I'll get moderated as offtopic THIS time. . . )
So, does anybody think there might be a retrofit kit available? I'm thinking, pop the case on the Palm III, plug the new chip in, close the case, and. . . well, of course not! the display is still b/w. But what I'm thinking is that this new CPU runs at 33MHz instead of 16. That would be kick ass. Anybody know if that's a possibility?
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Handspring has a great product. However, they're a miniscule company compared to Palm. They simply don't have the will or the capability to spread themselves all over the map with a new model with each gimmick - that's what springboard modules are for. Moreover, Jeff Hawkins is notorious for his "give 'em what they need, not what they say they want" philosophy.
I'd say that with curent technology (color is either very finicky about lighting conditions or uses a backlight that sucks battery BADLY; and "transflective" type displays where you can pick your poison aren't there yet) color definitely is "what they say they want". If you see a color 'visor in the year 2000 I'll be mighty surprised. (As I will be if you DON'T see one soon after that.)
Preferential Voting: easy as 1-2-3
Lots of stuff works on the devices. tclsh was an easy port, but awfully large to just have around without a good reason. I ran the LambdaMOO server using JHCore. Robert Coie actually built a self-hosting gcc.
Of course, without any CF access yet, anything that won't fit on the 4M ramdisk is run over the 115kbps SLIP/PPP link on NFS...not the speediest disk you've ever used.
> and they are working on getting the GUI running (it seems to be already running on at least one of the developers' machines).
The demo works on my E-15 too. It's pretty much stock microwindows, with new touchpanel calibration code.
I have a Palm V and it can only give a beep with one frequency just like PC speaker. Some WinCE handheld has actual stereo/mono audio mic/earphone jack. (Casio?) To me the audio feature is more attractive than color display.
A Palm with audio can have:
1) act as a memo recorder: 1 minute of 8 kbps mp3 is 60K. so you can reasonably record 10 min. of
speech.
2) dial phone number using touch tone
frequencies listed here
3) more configurable clock alarm sound and other silly gags.
--- You make things foolproof, and they'll find you a damn fool.
There are two things you need to know. I am submiting this anonymously because I really shouldn't be saying this......
1: It will have a Lithium Ion battery, like the Palm V does and the Vx does.
2: It will use the technology from the GameBoy color; The screen will actually only display like 64 colors at a time, but will be capable of doing like 65K colors...so battery will be maximized.
I also expect PalmOS 4 to be available before or when the Color models ship.
PalmStation has two screenshots of the PalmOS Emulator running a color OS. No word on whether they're real or not, but if they are... (imitating Tank in The Matrix) Yeah! Wow.
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