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Creative Labs GPLs dxr2 DVD Decoder Drivers
The Dakota Kidd writes "Just saw this on Linuxgames today - Creative has released the drivers for their dxr2 DVD decoder card. It isn't listed yet on Creative's Open Source page but it is in the CVS repository. " Kinda lost in the excitment of their open sourcing the drivers for SB Live!, but yet more good news on the hardware support front.Credit where it's due: Andrew deQuincey and Lucien Murray-Pitts actually wrote the code - it's nice to be able to get it now.
got the driver.. compiled and installed the .o files..
/dev/dxr2 120 0
now trying to mknod the device..
[hetz@hetz-linux dxr2]# mknod c
Try `mknod --help' for more information.
Any help here?
Hetz (Heunique)
I dislike this. Creative is taking the Fame for this Driver and is using it for their own public relations.
To clarify: This driver was not written by Creative. In fact its creation wasn't even supported by Creative with information about the hardware. I mailed with the author and he had to find out all informations by himself either by reference manuals or reverse engineering.
Now all Creative did was adding their Copyright messages (what a laugh!) and making the driver public available via their server. And they cheated the programmers again, as they made it available on their CVS without telling them how to access it, or even that the published it. When i mailed the author about this, he just didn't knew, that the driver where available in public.
Sorry, but if this is the way Creative wants to go in future for Linux "Support" i won't recommend buying their products.
And now for some clarification about the driver: As creative didn't helped the driver is still unstable and without many features. And the main parts of DVD (the navigation) are not contained. You may now play a VOB-File from the Disc (if the file is not encrypted). But you are missing all the DVD features, and if there are some extras mixed in one file, you will have to play them sequentially.
It is not very likely, that DVD navigation will be supported very soon, as the DVD forum has maked this a closed standard, which you have to pay for access and even sign a NDA.
So this driver is a first step, but will not really be helpful for dvd playing.
The only one who may help is Creative, as they have signed the NDA and have the standards. They would need to release a (binary-only) module for navigation and other issues. But if they continue to use other peoples work without doing anything thereselfs, this is not to be awaited.
In short: There is no fame which Creative can take for this driver. The haven't done anything and they even didn't show the willingness to do something in the future. This may change, but in the moment it doesn't look like.
If you want to watch DVD on Linux you better stick with a company which is truly supporting linux on their products. For example the guys from linuxtv.org/convergence.de will have a dvd decoder card for linux very likely till the end of this year in production. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, i just know them from the livid mailinglist. But they are truly supporting linux and not just taking other peoples work. So support them!
I've understood that the Sigma Legends/Realmagic Hollywood+ uses the same chip as the Dxr2. Any luck of using these drivers with the H+?
Sometimes perhaps development should be handled in house, and a company may be tempted to release their shoddy existing code for others to fix for free.
I'm not saying this is the case with Creative, but be careful about rejoicing about source code releases. If a company is expecting to get great results with open source, but they release something no one is interested in (not the case here), it may completely cause them to swear it off.
In other words, if a mainstream company starts considering open source programmer contributions as a savings on it's balance sheet, start to worry.
This is great! I'm really happy with Creative's Linux support. Too bad my Dxr2 card just bit the dust.
I've had it for about a year and a half now, meaning the warranty is up.
Anyway, I'm not exactly sure what the problem is. It seems that when my video
card is lopped through the Dxr2 board and then out to my monitor, the video
image is all blue! If you giggle the cable, the monitor loses the signal. I
contacted Creative, and they said the ports were probably loose. Not as far as
I can tell.
Anybody have any suggestion about how to fix it?
If not, anyone want to sell one cheap?
Bd
Anybody got a "fe-sure" on if encrypted DVDs work or not? I'd love to plop in my new bubblegum crisis dvd tonight, but I'd REALLY love to watch it under Linux.
-- I'm omnipotent, I just don't care.
-- IANAEG - I am not an elder god.
I'm sure someone has brought this up by now, but what about thouse of us with the DRX3 decoder? I mean, I bought mine when I knew windows was the only thing I'd be able to play dvds under, but now that DRX2 users have another option, I'd like to have one too. I'd just be happy if they said they planned to, even if it was not something they are ready to release yet. From the sound of it, the developers from CL may read /., so if any of them reads this, please, let us know, ok?
You should try the Cinemaster decoder bundled with the Pioneer DVD-A01, it has bus support, svhs, ac-3, comp vid, plus it has a vesa output so you don't tie up your system bus. But no linux drivers :(.
...
I wasn't really responding to the DXR2 (I have indeed never seen one), but more to the following assertion:
> What do you mean the picture is better than
> television? The DVD itself is made as a TV-video
> format. The scan lines themselves match the way
> the interlaced scan lines of the TV's CRT are drawn.
Which simply isn't true.
My PC-DVD decoder card from them uses the VGA feature connector on my video card. It works quite nicely. Why not just do it that way.
Now I just wish they would opensource the drivers for my PC-DVD card
You want technical?
... the cable going into the DVD card has this data and it is then passed through to the monitor untouched 99% of the time (depending on how often you watch DVD movies that is).
...
... assuming you're full-screen (or else there won't be enough data for multisync monitors).
;)
Video card produces a stream of data at a certain pair of frequencies for V/Hsync
If you're watching a DVD movie, that section of the screen is rendered blue by the video card (as per the instructions of the software). The DVD card, being synchronized to the current V/Hsync of the video card (done at initialization for each resolution) produces data for the DVD image at the points where the data for the blue signal from the video card are
Video output = V
DVD output = D
Video DVD Combined
VVVVV DDD VVDDD
VVVVV DDD VVDDD
VVVVV DDD VVDDD
VVVVV VVVVV
The video signal is being mutated by the DVD card in one sense, but the DVD output of the DXR2 card is not affected one bit. If you think it is, you're crazy. If you want proof, just unhook your video card from the DVD card while its running a movie (not recommended!) and the picture will stay
Have a great day
- Michael T. Babcock <homepage>
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Experimenting with resolutions can also help: Films that looked bad on 1280x1024@60Hz here were much better at 1152x768@75Hz. Or perhaps that was my eyes thanking me for upping the refresh rate. :-)
(For completeness, my setup is a Dxr2 x4 set run through a Matrox Millennium G200 w/8Mb to a Viewpoint/Viewsonic 17" monitor, with all the latest drivers and firmware and whatnot, using Windows 95 OSR 2.5. Why I don't use the S-Video connector? My TV is broken.)
Linux is not the problem, it's the software that is the problem. If an app that played DVD movies was released would you continue to reboot to watch the videos under the Win 98? Let's get some hardware and software support. Maybe Zoran or Xing could port their players.
treke
Is there any chance that such drivers will become available for (almost) every piece of Creative hardware? I own a DVD Inlay (CT7160) and I don't believe this one is for me, but I am DYING for one that would work on mine.
I don't know about you, but I personally don't want to be in the middle of a movie when all of a sudden I get a GPF...not to mention that Linux is faster anyway...besides, Windows is too tempramental when it comes to drivers: when I want to play a DVD movie I have to swap around my Windows display driver because the damn software is too picky. Sorry, but Windows DVD support still sucks, and once Linux gets there i can free up that (rather large) bit of HD space that Windows takes up.
I don't know why this defective duplicate of my posting appears. Please moderate it down to -1 (Redundant). Thanks.
The first module I'm meant to install, anp82.o fails saying:
unresolved symbol vfree
unresolved symbol vmalloc
unresolved symbol printk
A search of my system reveals no modules (or anything else) by that name, and a search of the net indicates that these are all *libraries* ? What gives?
TIA
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Anyone know where? I have a system with a DRX3 card (although the box was labeled as DRX2, the card uses the DRX3 drivers, and is labled as such)
First off, thanks a lot to Creative. They seem to know what's what in the Linux world. But...
:)
It seems weird to alienate people like me who went ahead and bought the more expensive dxr3 setup rather than the dxr2 based kits. I know the cards are pretty different but I hope the drivers come out for the dxr3 pretty soon as I imagine that's what most people are getting in their Creative kits now. I want to help code on a player but I need one I can actually use.
you obviously have never seen a dxr2 in action. The tv output is *much* better than the onscreen output. Hell, the output to my tv tuner looks better than the signal the dxr2 puts on my monitor, except for the combing.
-matt
I hate to burst your bubble but you are wrong. The dxr2 does CSS completely in hardware so the "CSS leak" (which happened quite some time ago btw) has nothing at all to do with it. The dxr3 does CSS in software which is probally why we are only seeing dxr2 at the moment.
Also, please read the post in the future, maybe notice the link to the drivers given in the source. Creative already released the source, and I've already got it working on my system (for un-encrypted DVDs, haven't tried it with encrypted ones yet).
-matt
First off, writing a player app is going to be a LOT easier than CSS. For the player we have the source code to the driver as a reference, and the API as it stands right now (which will change) isn't that complicated. The test app that comes with the driver is about 4k, sure it's not feature rich, but it works. I was actually considering writing a player myself as a project. Any half decent coder could do the same. Also, don't count on a decent player to come from creative until after the driver is working, if at all.
-matt
I didn't think about the order until I read the other posts here.. but it is completely aparent to me that the DxR2 has shitty output on the VGA connector.
;) ). This is what gives it that "film" look. On my friend's Barco Data 1100 Projector , it could have easily fooled someone into thinking it was film.
I can use a Software DVD player, and although it drops frames on my K6-2 450Mhz machine, it looks like FILM at 1024x768 60Hz.
The DxR2 VGA output suffers from lots of shimmery analog artifacts, like ghosts, and interlacing scan lines (like it's being poorly line doubled). The Software DVD player doesn't have interlacing, because the actual DVD Video is stored on the DVD in 480 lines Progressive.
I also think the software player does some sort of smoothing algorithm on the Video when blowing it up to 768 Progressive (1024x768
This also at least goes to show that they are watching how the community reacts to them. If people were making a lot of noise over it and nothing happens, then all you have is one way communication. It is nice to see that Creative does listen even if it (*might*) be for the wrong reasons. Perhaps they are reading this thread too. Try to show them a community that welcomes their attempts. I know I welcome them; there is still time for them to figure this out the rest of the way. I think the community has to get brave and stop shying away from companies that don't commit %100 to the OpenSource ideals.
Remember: we all know how Open Source can benefit our personal/productivity lives. The way to make Open Source work for a company is still largely experimental.
-pos
The truth is more important than the facts.
The truth is more important than the facts.
-Frank Lloyd Wright
The DxR2 is a decent card, but it's biggest problem is that it shoves the video through an analog VGA cable to overlay onto your video card. The picture is better than Television, but not as good as the software based DVD playback I've seen.
/through/ the system bus (PCI) and write it directly into the frame buffer on the video card? If so, this would be the best of both worlds. If not currently, would this even be possible? I'd sure like to see the drivers setup to work this way for this card.
Does anyone know if there's a way to send the video from the Dxr2
How long untill we see player apps?
I just downloaded the css decryption program and didn't like how the audio got out of sync with the video (on my dual PII 400).
Creative has gone up a notch in my book.
da w00t. mtfnpy?
Does anyone have a URL or a press release or ANY information on this?
Your design to a real part online: Big Blue Saw
A couple of other interesting points:
:)
This driver requires microcode from the Windows version of the drivers. (Just copy over a file called dvd1.ux) I guess that's a way to protect all those if-we-told-ya-we'd-have-ta-kill-ya hardware-level trade secrets?
Also, as I understand it, these were *not* developed *by* Creative, although Creative has given them their blessing. Hopefully the authors will pay us a visit and tell the story of how they came to be.
If you're interested, here's the first part of the readme:
The version of the drivers on creative's web page aren't the most recent. The most recent version can be found here:
://livid.on.openprojects.net/pipermail/livid-dev/1 999-November/000770.html
http://www.geocities.com/dxr2linux
Al so take a look at the developers message on the livid mailing list:
http
A buddhist walks up to a hot dog stand and says ``Make me one with everything.''
The new trend seems to definately be that you start it off and let the open-source community do the work of improving the software!
I cant complain/ Now i can go ahead and get a SBLIVE and a DVD drive! This trend towards supporting linux is just awesome@ I remember that a few years ago i had so much trouble getting hardware that was supported!
The business side of this is also interesting, i mean you get more users since most linux ppl. will have few choices (this is sadly still true) and well *NERDS* always are the opinion leaders!
Get them to use your prodct and the regular users who always ask the *nerds* will end up coming to your product for certain!
Heck if it helps us, and it helps them... why not!
Non-Deterministic Finite Automata
This is gunna be great! I wonder how long till these drivers will be able to run DVD's fullscreen on a K6-2 300 with good framerates? Once it can do this then I will buy me a Creative Labs DVD drive....unless of course someone else finishes there drivers first :)
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
http://loki.linuxgames.com
Does anyone know if the DXR2 drivers work with the DXR3 decoder?
It is a Conexa nt BT865 which is a "YCrCb to NTSC/PAL Digital/Video Encoder" (not that I know for sure what that means...) but I dunno if it has the "PCI push" feature or not... specs on the web page are sketchy.
Fed up with what? Put your money out? Sure. Where can I get a player app for linux. Gimmee an address and the check is in the fucking mail.
No dice? Okay, I'll just code it myself, then. Err, no, wait. that's not very easy, is it? I mean, it took forever for a bunch of pretty damned on-the-ball-guys to crack the CSS stuff, so the IFC stuff is probably going to take a while, too. And, it's a bit over my head anyway.
Fine, okay, yah, bitching doesn't help much, though, does it?
Well, maybe, maybe not. I know for a fact that there are people at Creative and at Sigma Designs who read Slashdot. People who read slashdot and work at Creative and/or Sigma proooobbbbabbbblly read stories about things near and dear to their hearts. Like DVD decoder driver stories. They read the stories, they see people bitching. They see people bitching, maybe they start to realize there's some demand out there for this sort of thing.
So, maybe it's not such an exercise in futility after all. Mayber there's a point. Or, you know, maybe not, or something.
-k. ^-^ ^D
The RemoteSelector (http://www.visualdomain.net) software lets you switch regions any number of times, turn Macrovision on/off, switch video modes, control the Dxr2 software via a large number of remote controls, and more....
I bought it about a year ago so I could control the Dxr2 software and Winamp w/ my X10 RemoteMouse. I have been very happy with the progression of the software, new features constantly. I recently threw my X10 RemoteMouse in the trash (total piece of garbage) and replaced it with an IRMan (http://www.evation.com/irman) and it works great!
Both RemoteSelector and the IRMan were worth every penny....
seanf();
No. The chipset's completely different. The Dxr3 is actually a relabeled Sigma Hollywood+ board. I hope someone from Sigma is reading this - we want Linux drivers for the H+! Yes, I know they intend to provide Linux support with their NEXT card... but what about those of us who've ALREADY paid to play? We have to sell what we have, and buy something new, since Sigma doesn't wanna write Linux drivers for their _current_ stuff? Come on.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
While I realise this is neither here nor there, has anyone looked into using the Motion Compensation and iCMP(sp) bits on the Rage128 chips (or any chip with motion comp) for DVD decoding under Linux?
Gee, its getting amazing to see what xanim can do, huh?
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
Andrew deQuincey and myself (Lucien Murray-Pitts) are the co-developers of the DXR2 card. The card, atm, only plays MPG streams via the TV OUT. We've not tackled the overlay yet. The card supports HARDWARE CSS and Andrew is working on it atm. THIS IS A DRIVER and as such DOES NOT implement any sort of player. It takes the stream given to it and pushes it to the card. This IS akin to the Creative Labs Windows drivers - even they have a seperate app. to play the DVD/VCD. Anyone wanting to contribute $5,000 so we can buy the DVD Format Books is very welcome to send us the cash ;-) Yours, Andrew & Lucien
The problem is there are probably two (not mutual exclusive) reasons for non-existant "source code" for the microcode.
1) There simply is no source code (like c-code), very likely because this stuff is as low-level as it can be.
2) There is some kind of source code, but the tools for creating the binary code out of the source are heaviliy proprietary, i.e. either you have to pay $$$ for them or you can't get them at all.
Once again we see the importance of the existence of free compilers at al for the idea of open source per se.
So, they have released the drivers, but is it actually a program so I can run my DVD's? If not, when is the projected date that there will be?
"After exactly 49.7 days of continuous operation, your win95-based computer may stop responding" -Microsoft
I don't have a DXR2, but looking at the source it seems Macrovision and similar protection is an on-off switch in the card firmware...
I would be very surprised if there isn't a way to disable Macrovision on such old kit, but to be quite honest, who cares?
Do you really want to wreck your crystal clear DVD video by putting it on nasty VHS?
One thing: Is there any official confirmation from Creative that these drivers will be released, since they aren't out yet, and we only have linuxgames' word on this?
-----------
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100% pure freak
This is a really neat thing to find, especially since so many people are putting hard work into the desktop environment. So far Linux and NetBSD have put quite a bit of effort into this arena. NetBSD was one of the first FreeNixes to impliment USB support (that was usable) and they're working on quite a few other things. NetBSD recently ported some of the Linux DVD extensions, and we'll probably see that wrapped into the other BSD's sometime soon.
yeah, well read the readme on the decryption stuff....
cd-ram disks are about $25, legit dvds are about $20, i suppose you could copy it to hard drive, but i dunno how economical it would be....
maybe you could fit it on a cd-r if you're lucky?
Need a Catering Connection
It does work, a bit. I managed to get my system to play back dvds over my tv tuner. I don't know how sound works because my cd audio doesn't work right under linux to begin with. Video looks good, but it's extremely jumpy. Not entirely certain why. Also, I had to change the source of PAL to NTSC in test.c before I could get everything working right (but that's an issue with my tv tuner not the card I think). Has anyone else noticed jumpiness or is it just me? Also, creative doesn't have bugzilla going for Dxr2 yet :(.
-matt
>I wonder how long till these drivers will be
>able to run DVD's fullscreen on a K6-2 300
>with good framerates?
As this driver is for a hardware decoder, the framerate and fullscreen doesn't have to do anything with your processor speed.
>Once it can do this then I will buy me a Creative >Labs DVD drive....
Don't do it. This driver is for the DXR2 Kit, but this is no longer for sale for some time now. They are selling now the DXR3 Kit which has totally different hardware and can therefore not be used with this driver.
I personally won't recommend buying anything from Creative again. This driver was not written neither was the development supported by Creative. The author found all internals out by reverse-engineering. All what Creative did was putting their Copyright remarks into the files and making the driver available through their servers.
Which I guess means that you would actually want that chip's input to get pushed across the PCI bus.
--Chouser
--Chouser
"To stay young requires unceasing cultivation of the ability to unlearn old falsehoods." -LL
Does anyone know if this will work with the DXR3 decoder card? I inadvertantly received one with one of the kits (it said it included a DXR2)
"Of all days, the day on which one has not laughed is the most surely the one wasted." -Sebastian Roch Nicol
or is that compatible with the dxr2 (which I doubt)
:/
also...the monitor output on the dxr3 that I have is actually pretty good, but so is the TV output. but that doesn't help me if I'm still out a driver.