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IceWM 1.0.0 released
A reader wrote in with the news that IceWMIceWM has announced that they are now 1.0.0. IceWM is a window manager that strives to be simple, according to the web site, while also being fully usable in default config. It's fully Gnome compliant, and partially KDE compliant.
Something I've noticed about many of the WMs currently under development is that they seem to put a lot of energy into support for "themes". While it is an important practicality to allow users to customize the look and feel of their desktop what I see (especially under KDE and Enlightenment) is a lot of wacky features that don't seem practical.
I'd like to see more Gnome compliant window managers. Choice is a good thing. I feel like Oliver Twist actually, "Please Sir, Can I have some more?" :-)
I've tried the beta releases before 1.0.0 and personally I didn't like em. I don't think my opinion counts though, I think that E is stable and fast. Hehe. You wouldn't believe some of the flames i've gotten on those. But to me, if you really wanted windows, you'd be in windows. A taskbar shouldn't be stuck in the wm, it should be an external ap. If you want a simple wm, then KISS. Don't go putting taskbars and such in it. Use an external taskbar if you really desire one.
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
I like Ice for its speed; while it's not as customizable as E, it's not as bloated, and hence is a quick and simple window mananger.
I like how the poster noted that IceWM "strives to be ... KDE compliant."
"It's like this. We're really trying hard to almost work correctly sometimes with KDE."
--
odds of being killed by lighning and
Odds of being killed by lightning and winning the lottery in the same day: 1 in 2^55
Quantity will never replace quality, no matter how free it is.
It's not difficult to change the pixmap that the menu uses.
This is my main beef with Linux... there's always the latest this and the latest that coming out of the community... why can't some coders take a break from working on the coolest, most bleeding edge stuff, and instead try making stuff a little easier?
If we want to take more of the Microsoft market share, we need more users.. when you compare how I can change my resolution under Windows with a single click, and I've still got X running at 640x480, now -there- is an area that needs work.
This is a huge discouragement for new users. You can't expect that when you say "this video card and modem won't work, and sound is really complicated to set up" they'll just go "oh, good, I have this extra $500 I needed to waste somehow, why dont I replace most of my hardware?"
Devilled Eggs - A disturbing little creation of mine.
I've used icewm off and on since the 0.8.x days, and have always had a fondness for it. Over the last four years, my wm has either been icewm, amiwm, or Enlightenment depending on my mood, and how stable E was at the time ;)
:) Just because something gets a 1.0 version number doesn't mean it was never stable or suitable for end users before that point. (Case in point, Enlightenment)
:) )
Icewm has come a long way, and throughout the development cycle it's always been a fast, usable window manager. It's nicely configurable, and now that it has a couple configuration GUIs, it's that much easier. It's good to see the 1.0.0 mark, and I congradulate the people behind it for their years of effort.
Somebody mentioned there being too many 'almost done' window managers in the open source world, and to them I'd like to point out that this community's definition of 'beta version' is slightly different from that of commercial software
Yes, there are a lot of window managers, and perhaps some of them didn't need to be made, but I don't see any harm in having that much more variety. It's not like your window manager choice is going to make your X apps unusable (And if it does, that window manager has Issues
KaufWM also features a dorky face and thick glasses, and will do just about anything in exchange for a copy of _The Unix Hater's Handbook_. It's not Gnome-compliant, but has been rumoured to look like an elf.
:)
See how easy it is to write a catchy headline?
Seriously, I move for Slashdot to stop posting this kind of 1.0 announcements. You can bet your ass that, as we speak, about half a million attention-thirsty Slashgeeks are hurriedly updating their pet WM projects to "1.0", with hopes of getting posted on Slashdot and scoring collaborators. So don't post this kind of thing - no exceptions.
To the editors: your English is as bad as your Perl. Please go back to grade school.
The difference between IceWM and most of the other shit of freshmeat is that it is actually finished, 1.0 software. It is not like this WM is at 0.1 of 50 other 0.1 window managers.
Besides, there have been many good window managers, and desktop envirements to go with them. Why do you care if 20 guys make there own crappy versions? It is unlikely they would have helped out the other good window managers.
You are lucky 2 guys already responded, I would have moderated that post down if it had not been replied too.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Why should the latest, coolest thing and ease of use be mutually exclusive? All it takes is a good design plan to build something that is easy to use from the beginning.
If we want to take more of the Microsoft market share
I'm not sure if this is really a priority.. I used to think that we as a community should be out to beat Microsoft like the media always says we are, but now that I look back over the last couple years.. I don't care what Microsoft does, or how big their market share is. The open source community has created something that has made a huge impact, and won't be silenced by an iron fisted corporation, no matter how large they may be.
I've still got X running at 640x480
User error. Fix your X configuration to support multiple resolutions, and press CtrlAlt+ or CtrlAlt- (Using the + and - on your keypad) Or if you demand a graphical one-click answer rather than a three-key binding, see apps such as the Gnome QuickRes Applet.
this video card and modem won't work
Very few, if any, modern (I say modern as in 'made in the last 3 years') and common video cards break X.
The only modems that don't work in Linux are WinModems, which require a Windows driver to function as a modem (And actually, work is underway to fix that pathetic attempt at Windows-specific hardware)
sound is really complicated to set up
I don't know about other distros, but RedHat enables pretty much every kernel sound module available in the default kernel. Any SoundBlaster-esque card should work out of the box, which covers pretty much everything packaged by a major vendor, unless it's a weird speakerphone/modem/soundcard monstrosity like I've seen in the HP Pavillions.
Sure, the situation isn't perfect. But think about what you're asking for. Much of the hardware support in Linux that we take for granted was made possible by hard efforts of volunteers who pounded away on devices to reverse-engineer their functionality. It's becoming easier now as companies are being more forthcoming about their hardware specs, but it's still work being done by volunteers. Don't gripe if they're not supporting everything fast enough for you.
At least lil bits'o'funny like this take time ;)
Of course if there is an engine to do this stuff automatically I want it =P
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
This is making things easier. It is a 1.0 quality window manager that works well with GNOME. If it wasn't for this window manager, I would be using KDE now, no doubt about it.
This WM has been around for a while. It isn't bleeding edge stuff.Why would you even say that? It is just a quality WM, that is at 1.0.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I'd also like to warmly recommend another of Mark's inventions, FTE (folding Text Editor). It's a great editor with syntax highlight, great autoindent (not just standard stuff that indents at the same level as the last line, but one that changes to next line and indents when you type {) and generally a borland-like interface. You can use shift-arrowkeys to select a block while fte runs under console and other nifty things. It was a step up from joe for me, and I never could get into Emacs/lisp.
fte runs both under X and console, and you can get it from http://www.kiss.uni-lj.si/~k4fr0235/fte/.
I've heard many people complain that the windows gui sucks, and that linux wm's that try to replicate its look suck by association.
However, I've never heard a good explanation as to why it sucks?
The same design concept is carried through most of the shell (with IE5 this became IE centric, but its not *that* bad, dont get me wrong, i hate ms too, but i'm not stupid about it)
-standardized key combos (cntrl-c copy, ctrl-v paste etc)
-one can get around fairly well without a mouse
-the task bar holds a lot of easy to access information (apps running, system tray, start menu)
-the start menu can be nicely customized (even further with the tweak utils).
-You can choose between an iconified desktop, and active desktop(blech) or no desktop at all (with the tweak utils).
-It's responsive in the tactile sense (buttons etc)
I'm sure someone could make a nice list of win9x gui foibles, but you could make a list twice as long for each of the popular window managers. Everyone knows M$ 'borrowed' a lot of its best gui features from the mac, and theres no reason X wm's shouldn't incorporate the same great features.
NightHawk
Set threshold at -1 FlaimBait to read this comment
I couldn't agree more :)
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I assume you two complained when slahsdhot reported beta versions of E were released, and that E has it's own slashdot icon.
How the hell is Quake major software? It is just a game (joking aside).
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I work in plain Enlightenment most of the time without any desktop environments. But on occasions, when happen to use Gnome, I go with IceWM. Enlightenment is a resource hog to use with Gnome.
When used in Gnome, IceWM does not display its own taskbar. It doesn't display its own menus on the root window, wharfs, pagers, etc. It simply decorates the windows and that is all about it.
After experimenting with atleast half a dozen other window managers, IceWM seems to be the most suitable WM to use with Gnome as of date. I haven't yet used IceWM by itself though. Should try it today!
-Sivaraj.
One thing I like about the linux developer community is that they don't inflate their version numbers, they just use smaller increments. Some of these programs have been around for years, yet have rev numbers like 0.56.9 rather than VERSION 37 PROFESSIONAL, or worse yet the year-number scheme. They often pack a lot of development into those 0.0.1-value changes.
That way when, *gasp*, version 3.0.0 comes out, it is much cooler because you had to wait for it and you know that big-ol' whole-integer version number really means something.
Cf nethack, linux kernel, gnome, kde, enlightenment, &soforth.
Call me a geek...
JD
Here's the section specific to Windows 95:
An in-depth review
In-depth: Uncommon file dialogs
Artifical Intelligence?
So, is it a floppy or a CD?
Just assume it knows what you want
'Problem' where none has occured
Single tabs are not OK
Improperly grouped tabs
There's a lot more good stuff on the site, but this is the excerpt from the Product Index for Win95. There's one for NT too, if it interests you.
There seems to have been a recent trend in window managers such as IceWM and Sawmill to aim for a fast and simple (yet extensible) product which integrates well with a desktop enviroment. People are now looking to their DEs to provide them with the configurability, consistency and inter-operability that they want, and hence no longer require features such as application docks and background selection in a Window Manager. However, people still want control and choice in the feel of their X environment, at a level that shouldn't concern the DEs (a major drawback of KDE, I thought, was the overly strong link between it and kwm). We now have consistency and choice - Linux is really coming of age.
As an aside, I noticed that IceWM is released under the LGPL license. Does anyone know why this is? Also, did this prevent them from being chosen as the default GNOME window manager, when the GNOME team were looking for a lightweight replacement for E (this is before Sawmill came around)?
stability, from what I recall, has nothing to do with how many features you have in something. unless of course you've got some magic fountain of knowledge that I don't have access to. Just my 2 cents.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
I have installed Ice on several low-end systems. I've tried quite a few VMs and at least I have gotten the impression that Ice is one of the better options on low-end (actually low memory) systems.
We have quite a few public systems (ouch 16 & 32 MB...), mostly used as web-machines, and on those systems it's important to give the users an environment that is fairly similar in basic look & feel to Windows.
On this low-end systems we used all kinds of other VMs, can't remember them all, but most of the ones around bout 18 month ago, and had to put notices beside the systems saying things as "Right-click on desktop for menu" (Nope, it didn't help the clueless little old ladys on going to our local library)
Eventually we removed all alternatives, and just made Ice available, with a verry basic Win95 look.
Suddenly all those lost souls actually could use the boxes, most of them propably didn't know they were using a linux workstation.
Similar on my 32MB laptop, KDE & E just bogs me down, the footprint of Ice is quite nice.
Windows does have some good points. The Windows GUI has several nasty features, one of which is the fact that applications controls their windows instead of the windowmanager. No real virtual desktops, and some other minor gripes.
IceWM takes the good bits. One of the main things I love when using Windows is the consistent interface all through the apps written in the evil Win32 API and the fact that everything can be done with the keyboard.
IceWM does just this. A windows interface with all the crap thrown out and good linux stuff thrown in. Keyboard shortcuts for everything and virtual desktops. Yummy. Give it a spin.
*borkborkbork*
Hehe... It's Winders with "themes". cool
-BrentCongradulations to the Ice development team! I've been using 0.8.16 for awhile- I guess it's time to upgrade. BTW, if you're curious I recently reviewed Icewm 0.8 at http://home.mho.net/zrpg/use1.html. And no, IceWM is not just another 1.0 window manager. It's quite stable and flexible- been in development for a few years. Try it out if you're looking for an alternative. Or don't. Isn't Linux about choice anyway?
I'm tired of hearing this crap about how Ice resembles Windows 95; Ice does emulate some of the better features of its interface, of course with clean, unbloated code. Besides, you can customize it however you want.
Linux: Long live the source code.
try icepref or iceconf to configure.
Take a look a the home page to get these.
___________________________________
Linux by Libranet - The TOP Desktop
Libranet GNU/Linux
I've got to second this one. FTE is my favorite editor for lots of things. And, since there's a Win32 version, I can use it on both of my OSes ^.^ My only problem right now is trying to figure out how to code it to handle MUSHcode with proper highlighting and checking and the like. It's getting to be rather tedious :)
The misconception that some people seem to have here is that (windowmanager with nifty features == sensible application development environment), which is not really true. For Linux to succeed, it has to get a *lot* easier to write applications, and this requires more than just WMs. KDE and GNOME are on the right track, but not nearly there yet.
Since there are preciously few examples of what a good ADE can be like, one can't really fault people for not knowing the difference. A nice example of what I'm talking about (which has the advantage that it's dead as a dodo, so I can't really be accused of advocacy) was NeXTStep. It had a degree of integration between display subsystem, API and OS that to my (naturally limited) knowledge has never been achieved elsewhere on a real, workable system (as opposed to, say, concept prototypes from academentia, which so often sound terribly nice, but are not really useable).
Anybody who knew NeXTStep will fondly remember the possibility to write applications mostly by drag-and-drop using InterfaceBuilder, and that drawing in windows was done using Postscript, which only had to be redirected if one wanted to print. Or the ability to use RenderMan streams in 3D viewports. Or the nice, orthogonal localization features. And so on.
People bought the extremely overpriced NeXT machines just in order to be able to use this ADE. At the moment Linux seems to be in a somewhat inverted situation: people use it despite the difficulties in writing GUI software for it. For Linux to _seriously_ threaten the monopoly of M$, better software development tools have to emerge. Let's not kid ourselves: KDE and GNOME in their current form are *not* contenders for prime time big productivity application development, although this may change. What one would need is a software development system that uses an unified imaging model, has a consistent class API that is not cluttered, has useable interface design and code management tools and generates nicely packaged applications that are easily localizable (my personal corollary would be: and that does not use X, but YMMV).
Unfortunately, XMas was two days ago, so we'll have to wait at least one more year ;-). But if anything along these lines happens, *that* would be worth posting as a "1.0 released" article.
just my $0.2E-32
Alexander Wilkie
P.S. Yes, I know about GNUStep, and the fact that Apple is using the old NeXT technology for its next-generation OS. The first is very slow in coming along, and the the second fact does not help us Linuxers at all.
I've used icewm since i started using linux.
To a beginner it provides a safe (no complex configs to screw up) easy to use wm. I looked at all the others and this one seems to be one of the only ones that puts back engine before the eyecandy. Others (fvwm) just don't look nice enough.
Now that I kind of know what I'm doing enlightenment has replaced icewm as my fav wm (but not by far) and I still use icewm a lot.
So, beginners. Go for icewm it fast easy to use and has a growing collection of themes to make it look even better.
___________________________________
Linux by Libranet - The TOP Desktop
Libranet GNU/Linux
You can remove the taskbar with ShowTaskBar = 0 (The workspace bar is in the taskbar). You can assing keys to wm commands or shell commands. And well, kudos for Marko Macek!
There's a lot more than 100% of the current market to grab. There's an enormous number of people out there who aren't using anything, much less windows or linux. Look at linux's inroads in Mexico and India if you need an example.
There are far more people who don't use a computer than who are currently locked into a non-linux system. Linux's strength as a bulletproof os suitable for settop-esque consumer devices may help it grab a few of those people. Or it might not.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
FTE is a /wonderful/ text editor.. Every time the old vi/emacs holy war starts up in my office, I hold up my beloved copy of FTE.
If you're looking for a simple, elegant WM that supports multiple workspaces and theming, go check out Blackbox, which is about as simple and elegant as they get. If you're really bold, after you've learned the 0.5x.0 interface, try out the 0.60.0 Alpha branch, which is at least as stable as the Enlightenment 'stable' releases and has even more themability.
It even supports WindowMaker's dockapps!
Weapons of Mass Analysis
--bdj
I've found that if you disable the pager, E is much faster on my p2-450. With the pager on everything is painfully slow. With it off it is at least as fast as WMaker.
IMHO, IceWM is still one of the better choice for running gnome, with fast desktop switching, smart window placement and great keybinding configuration. It's perfect for low-end machines (I wonder if people saying that E is fast have ever used it with sub-200MHz machines...).
And Marko Macek (main IceWm coder) is such a great guy. The IceWM mailing list is very, very helpful. Marko is listening to all suggestions, and many of them are quickly integrated into to the next version.
Nice work and nice spirit. A great project.
Okay. so from now on I'll be sure to add the tags to everything I write :) :)
you people take things so seriously, you anonymous cowards
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
that was supposed to have a in it. I thoguht plain old text would have converted it but I suppose it didn't.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
Congrats to the IceWM team. Something I don't hear people mention in comparing WMs that makes a difference to me:
"Does the WM work well if you like to keep everything maximized?"
This is what's kept me away from NextStep clones and others that have big menus that are quickly covered up by my windows.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
windows has themes too. www.customize.org
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i used to run fvwm95 before i discovered ice, but it can't max properly and it's a bastard to config by hand (it's probably more configurable than ice tho...)
mind you, sawmill and scwm are worse... but to each his own i guess
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enterfornone - logging in for a change
yes, you can configure Icewm. You don't need to have the taskbar enabled. I've used this wm for over a year now. It is _very_ stable_ and very useful without the mouse. I detest wm that require me to use the mouse. This message posted from Lynx.
Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
This is not a good comparison. This is not like one of 50 shitty 0.1 ICQ clones. It is one good window manager, that reached 1.0.
Again, like I said, they . . . , ahh fuck it, im watching TV.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Not who, but what. Answer: usability studies. With extensive usability studies Microsoft has been able to make user interfaces, mice, keyboards, joystics etc. that most people think are great [..]
What? That just plain doesn't make any sense. People should be able to use what they like, not what a group of people thinks is the best. Plain and simple. Usability studies or not. That's part of the philosophy that has produced the free OS (GNU/Linux) that many of us use today.
People will use what they think is the best. The more people use something, the more successful it will become (in general - and especially with OSS software and community involvement). Therefore, the software that people think is the best will become 'selected' in this manner. There is no need for usability studies.
Personally, I love Linux software the way it is now. There are many different choices for anything I could possibly want to do. How exactly is this wrong?
I feel slightly silly for posting this.... but, isn't blackbox supposed to be one of those nice, simple, un-bloated WM? I haven't had lots of experience with it, but I knew someone who practically "swore by it"...
Insert mind here.
here's a screenshot of a typical desktop in our lab.
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I wish Linux would endorse KDE or gnome, thus (de facto) killing off one or the other.
Who exactly is Linux, there's no one in the Linux community to say "Gnome is dead, and that's the bottom line, cause Bill Gates said so."
You will NEVER have that happen. It totally goes against everything Linux is about.
The challenge is to get these guys to work together. Instead of developing 200 different window managers, work together to develop one that is flexible enough to let group A have their cake and to let group B eat it too.
The guy with the +5 above is right on. My first thought when reading that comment was "BAM, that's it!".
Get these splintered developers to sit down and agree on how to proceed. Draft some guidelines (or god forbid, some standards) and set about making stuff work together! Isn't that what Linux is about?
This feature has been added recently due to popular request. (doesn't require the WM really).
:)
It's documented, too.
Finally.. a linux Window manger that stacks up slightly to OS/2's WPS legacy.. IceWM 1.0 together with DFM. You can't beat this combo for ultimate productivity. Now if some one would make an IRC client for X that is as good as GT-IRC (OS/2 client) or even mIRC. -- Jason
-- Jason...
APP Watch???? App Watch is a bunch of old guys apperently who has nothing else to do but complain about you stealing information whenever someone else announces an app/update on freshmeat that was posted first on appwatch. If you notice, as far as Icewm goes IF Appwatch did post it first then that is only because the ppl doing the posting is also the maintainers of Appwatch, Whereas Freshmeat actually has a staff that does nothing but go through and weed out all unwanted topics/apps, which in turn takes a little more time. Just my 2cents worth about Appwatch
yeah.. right on.. WPS rocks!
-- Jason...
All the window-managers that I have come across have one thing in common, they all want to be compared to, and outsmart MS-Windows, and I think this is a very misguided move.
Look, this gets very stale, very fast.
IBM have done this years ago - they came out with the slogan "Better Window and Window" for the OS/2, and see where OS/2 is heading?
What the Open-Source community needs to realize is that we do not compete against MS-Windoze. We are Open-Source, and we can use our talent for BETTER THINGS than yet-another-window-manager.
Would someone please listen up -
Please, we do not need to waste out time on outsmarting MS-Windows. Instead, we can use out time better to make Linux, and all its utilities, EASIER TO INSTALL AND USE.
Thank you for reading, and thank you for taking time out to consider what I have just said.
Hoping y'all have a WONDERFUL YEAR OF 2000 !!!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Okay, so I *do* like the virtual stuff and the 3d fluff. That's why I use olvwm.
IceWM is extremely fast and easy to use, it can be run on a 486 with 20 megs without major trashing on the hard drive.
If you use IceWM I would reccommened you tried out DFM (Desk Top File manager), basically a desktop where you can place icons, but don't need Gnome or KDE for it to work though!
http://dfm.linuxbox.com/
IceWM + DFM is just as nice as both KDE or GNOME, but ALLOT faster in all aspects. DFM is about to hit the big Version 1.0 also. They are both extremely fast and stable, and have been true for about the last year even when they where still in "development"
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
There doesn't seem to be a lot of overview-type documentation on the IceWM website, so I'll try asking here...
If your X server supports multiple displays, will IceWM manage them? One invocation? Or one instance per display? Or does it work at all? (I've seen wm's that get very confused...)
Has it been tried on non-Linux platforms, such as Compaq Tru64, *BSD, etc.? Is the code 64-bit clean (Alpha-compatible)?
One thing a lot of readers are missing here is the fact that it is just a Window Manager and does not claim to be the OS. IceWM is a good WM. It is light, flexible and easy to use. It makes a great alternative to fvwmX for speed and if you don't have the horsepower (or in my own case with a huge monitor that can only handle 256 colors) / ability to peruse E. GNOME or KDE it is still somewhat glitzy.
The thing our FUD friends are missing is that WM's under UNIX are different for a number of reasons, one of which is scalability. Look, you can't run winNT 4.0 on a 486 (of course that begs the question - why do you have a 486?) and expect reasonable performance. You can't run E on a 486, but you can run aewm or fvwm with no problems.
Even the standard windows GUI (which it refers to as the Operating System) has inconsistancy between versions, small but they are there. Windows, however, does not match the configurability or scalability of Linux, WM's play a part in both the configurability and scalability aspects.
That is why there are so many WM's. It is really more of a natural practicality (is that a word?) than nicety. It also gives the end user a level of enpowerment that no other system (aside from the Open Motif perhaps) gives.
" -- ow my brain hurts again -- "
I can see your point, but I feel offended that you are saying that aimed at Ice...its been out for a long time, and it is now reaching a one point oh release..it probably could of reached that last year some time...but version numbers don;t mean jack to OSS developers (ie slack) if you don't believe me, check out freshmeat's page on ice..loads of good shit said about them.
The basic sleazeware produced in a drunken fury by a bunch of UCBerkeley grad students was still the core of BIND. --PV
God damn! All I've seen here is a bunch of bitchers and whiners complaining about how there is now another WM...Jesus H Christ!! It's not like ice just appeared!! It's been out fer years! I've also heard a bunch of people complaining about how it isn't configureable...try icepref!! I hope no one was saying that it is bloated, and eats too much memory...it has to be the fastest, most lean WM I've ever used...don't believe me? check out freshmeat's page Also...its not like it is Just Another GNOME WM...it was out way before GNOME..and GNOME compliance was added when GNOME came out..
The basic sleazeware produced in a drunken fury by a bunch of UCBerkeley grad students was still the core of BIND. --PV
Secondly, it's almost uncanny how you are saying what I was attempting to say.
I was trying to advocate the end to splintering, which could be obtained by one or the other dying, or one OE or the other just joining the other one.
Bottom line, the linux community is delusional if it thinks that it can continue it's phenomenal growth without a unified GUI development environment. It is sad that Windows (closed) can leverage a good OE vs. Linux(open) and make it look like closed is better.
Finish Human Genome Project. Opensource DNA. Figure out what it does. Improve it. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
6.14 Can I get rid of the Trash/Templates/Autostart icons?
Yes. Simply edit $KDEDIR/bin/startkde and replace 'kfm' with 'kfm -w'. If this doesn't work, here's another way. Add the following lines to $HOME/.kde/share/config/kfmrc:
The effect is to take trash, templates, and autostart and put them into your home directory instead of your $HOME/Desktop directory. You will have to restart KDE, and you may have to delete the icons from the desktop the first time--be sure to move anything you have in autostart into $HOME/Autostart before deleting it from the desktop. And then you have a nice, clean desktop with no "My Computer" sort of look.
As an aside, posting anonymously when asking for help is not always the most sensible idea....
-- Craig
> stability, from what I recall, has nothing to do with how many features you have in something.
Quite right; there is no necessary connection. BUT the old truism "the more there is, the more there is to go wrong" still applies.
If you look at a chunk of code like, say, Microsoft Word, it's pretty obvious that the rampant featuritis of the last couple of releases has adversely affected its stability, and the Office programming team is in a "patch wars" state trying to keep ahead of the disaster potential of marketing's next bright idea.
The open-source development community has much less problem with this, both because of the many more eyes debugging the code and because the open model encourages much more bulletproof interfaces between modules. In addition, there's not the marketing pressure to shove something out the door, and the UNIX platform doesn't contribute to instability.
By the way, I really, really admire Enlightenment, and try out each new release, usually with an "oh wow!" Then I go back to my more pedestrian WMs, mainly because I find E just too distracting....
As to a 1.0 release of E, I'm reminded of the aphorism of the poet John Ciardi: "A great poem is never finished, it is simply abandoned." The same is probably true of great programs....
Craig
Hmmm... I read messages with the high pass filter (or whatever it's called) set to 2. I'm guessing that the message to which I'm replying was itself a reply to something with a lower setting. Thus, the statement "This feature has been added recently due to popular request." appears without a context.
After thinking about this for several good seconds, though, I don't have a solution...