Use ROX-Session and ROX-Filer (rox.sourceforge.net), and maybe an older but reasonable distribution such as RedHat 7.3. I've had that combination working great on some old Celeron-300/32MB machines I'm refurbishing for a non-profit, and it's quite an intuitive interface for experienced users and newbies alike.
GNOME and a recent distro simply with unnecessary software / services removed might not even be too bad on a 128MB machine (just don't try KDE!)
Anyway, if you want something that's fast, friendly and usable, I've found an excellent combination to be ROX (rox.sourceforge.net) and Sawfish as the window manager.
I saw someone above who was trying to run KDE and GNOME on a 128MB K6/2-300... obviously that would be painful, but I've used a combination of ROX and Sawfish on top of Redhat 7.3 (might as well blatantly break the Redhat trademark rules since this is slashdot) with 32MB of SIMMs installed on a K6/2-300. It works great, and with Abiword, GNUmeric etc it's all someone on low income needs (or anyone else in general, for that matter).
I've seen so many people say "just use the basic iso and download via FTP" but if you have 3 or 4 machines to try it with, or you want to reinstall once in a while, it tends to get old.
Of course, if it's any good then I'll consider buying the box and it'll all be academic. But it's nice to have the choice.
Unfortunately, the invention is here in the UK - where there are already cameras all over the streets, Internet monitoring etc etc for "our safety". People will get pissed off and revolt in the streets... but that's never stopped our government before.
For those of us living in A4-using lands, it's a real pain in the arse trying to set everything (especially in Windows) from Letter to A4! Then you think you have it susses and sure enough... "PC Load Letter" - aaargh!
Do you have any idea how much trouble and stress you've caused by making Letter the default even with UK set as the country?;)
Very well said, and you're far from alone. I'm in exactly the same situation (working for a charitable organisation refurbishing older computers for those on a low income or emergency need) and just as frustrated by the apparent lack of an easy to use Linux distro that runs on them with any kind of sanity.
Don't be disheartened by Slashdot - it's a great wealth of information, but some of the users as you've already observed are very "leet" here - it's probably not the greatest place to try and find information on a high usability distro.
Best of luck to you, and if you do find anything please try to get an article up or let us know somehow. I too have spent many hours searching, trying distros like Peanut and Vector but haven't found anything that comes close to the ease of use and speed of Win95 on older computers.
I've hit the friend button so I can keen an eye out!
There are two things people ask when I install it for them: * Where's Publisher * Where's Access
If it can get a super-easy point-and-click desktop publishing app (and don't forget the cheesy clipart!), it'll be a good way there.
If it can get a database frontend that's as easy as Access for both the developer and the user, but naturally more secure, we're onto a winnner.
As a little bit of background, I work for a non-profit organisation that needs to do *a lot* of data tracking to please funders. When I started, whilst I was a typical "guru" in general I knew absolutely nothing about databases. I started creating relational databases in Access, and it went from there. But even now (despite its many weaknesses) I use Access because it's quick to develop with and users love having a graphical front-end. I'm definitely open to suggestions for a decent *free as in beer* (and preferably speech) database front-end. If OOo can have something like Access but without all its quirks (*cough*deliberate*cough*sell MS SQL Server*cough*), a lot of small businesses and charities will be happy. And that adds up.
Apathy might not be too far off the mark, but I think it's a little deeper a problem than that.
Linux (for instance) doesn't really *do* anything new that the average consumer cares about. That includes stability, security and neat GNU tools. Most people I've spoken to and failed to "convert" aren't bothered that they have to reboot once in a while. Some are concerned that they might get hacked, in which case they get a geek friend to install a firewall and do all the updates. Others aren't bothered at all ("there's nothing important on here anyway"). And they certainly don't care about geek tools that they'll never even try to understand.
On the desktop, it's generally seen by the public as a free "imitation" of Windows that's always trying to play catch-up. As slashdotters we know better than that, but even still... strictly in Linux's desktop capacity (and thinking of average users, not geeks)... it's largely true.
Linux needs to do something *groundbreaking* that Windows doesn't, that Microsoft can't suddenly copy, *and* that the public actually care about. That is no easy task, especially given Linux's open source nature. Microsoft can easily make a development top-secret (just look at information on their new Longhorn interface, or lack thereof) but how can an open-source project be kept secret?
Put simply though, Linux needs to stop playing catch-up and overtake - borrow Microsoft's buzzword and "innovate".
Until that happens, yes it'll continue taking over the server market, but for Desktop Joe it'll always be a product that does exactly the same things but with less support, less compatibility and always playing catch-up.
A positive example of hope is Mozilla Firefox. That is an example of how Linux should be. It's way better than IE, and I know a lot of general public users who do actually use it. My parents use it, friends, fellow board visitors that I've helped to convert etc. This is because it features built-in tabbed browsing, it's extremely easy to "clean up", isn't succeptable to popups, spyware, self-installers etc, it's easy to use and it looks good. These are innovations or features that Desktop Joe *does* care about and that Internet Explorer doesn't actually do. This is a perfect example of the combination of innovation on the OSS side and suicide from Microsoft. The suicide being that they were too greedy - they were determined to keep the next version of IE for the next version of Windows so that they could list it in the features and essentially charge for it. Unfortunately for them, they seemed to forget that Longhorn is dragging ass. Finally they have a new version planned for XP SP2, but is it too little too late? Time will tell.
Microsoft's suicide on the desktop OS market *could* be Longhorn, but Linux developers need to work at it too - hard and fast - and bring a little homicide into the equation. MS are taking so bloody long with the thing that Linux could have time. But in the 2 year window it has, it had better come up with something damn good for the consumer.
The other problem is popularity - it's the old problem of "it's not popular, so why should I be a guinea pig?". Most people I've failed to convert have at least once used the argument of "well I just want to stay with the mainstream, that way I'm compatible with everyone else." I can't really argue with that, as it's true - they can't just buy a piece of hardware (or software) off the shelf and expect it to work like they can with Windows. They can't just take a disk off a friend with some data they saved from some proprietary Windows-based software and expect it to open in Linux. What can we do? Nothing really, it has to gain popularity either gradually or through some awesome innovation that people are willing to give all this up for.
"Down and Safe, Liberator. I expect one of the villains to conveniently steal my bracelet in around 15 minutes."
Seriously though, would this ever take off? I think it'd fail due to looking goofy, somewhat like VR headsets did.
However, it's feasible through other input methods like say... a finger. I remember looking a little daft in the 80s operating a calculator watch, but at least it's not as bad as talking to it...:)
Seriously, the springs on said joystick are ridiculously hard. If any other gaming will build up muscles, this will! (Personally I can't stand to use one for more than 10 minutes)
He seems to be working on "new projects" (solo by the sound of it) going by his slightly ranty website at dickmorrell.com
I'll be sure to avoid them!
Note he makes a point on the site of pointing out his remaining ownership of the Smoothwall copyright despite the fact that he resigned. What that means I don't know, but it smells very SCO-ish. He's an asshole of similar caliber to those guys.
Last time I checked, it basically wasn't possible due to the closed design of them. But love Linux as much as I do, I still pick the most suitable hardware for my needs. An iPAQ answered that, with Windows CE.
I tried Familiar (heart beating FAST as it messed around with areas that can easily turn the iPAQ into a brick) and one of the main things that put me off was a lack of support for the MMC slot. Sure, I could bloat the size of it even further with a CF jacket, but... meh:( My camera (which I like!) is MMC.
The other thing that bugged me was Bluetooth. If you think it's behind the times in Windows, IMHO it's 5x worse in Linux. I've faffed with it for a week on a desktop machine, don't fancy the same on a handheld TYVM:)
Not being a troll, just submitting my perspective on things as an honest fan of Linux.
Slashdot Mirror
"Other than me running the memory as single channel DDR instead of Dual channel for 3 months because I had it in the wrong slots. D'OH!"
:) Actually, I think it was more like 4-5 months before I realised.
Join the club, I did exactly the same
Just goes to show though, how little difference things like dual channel RAM make to those who just use their PCs for everyday gaming etc.
Use ROX-Session and ROX-Filer (rox.sourceforge.net), and maybe an older but reasonable distribution such as RedHat 7.3. I've had that combination working great on some old Celeron-300/32MB machines I'm refurbishing for a non-profit, and it's quite an intuitive interface for experienced users and newbies alike.
GNOME and a recent distro simply with unnecessary software / services removed might not even be too bad on a 128MB machine (just don't try KDE!)
It's part of a non-profit project...
Anyway, if you want something that's fast, friendly and usable, I've found an excellent combination to be ROX (rox.sourceforge.net) and Sawfish as the window manager.
I saw someone above who was trying to run KDE and GNOME on a 128MB K6/2-300... obviously that would be painful, but I've used a combination of ROX and Sawfish on top of Redhat 7.3 (might as well blatantly break the Redhat trademark rules since this is slashdot) with 32MB of SIMMs installed on a K6/2-300. It works great, and with Abiword, GNUmeric etc it's all someone on low income needs (or anyone else in general, for that matter).
*Thanks*.
I've seen so many people say "just use the basic iso and download via FTP" but if you have 3 or 4 machines to try it with, or you want to reinstall once in a while, it tends to get old.
Of course, if it's any good then I'll consider buying the box and it'll all be academic. But it's nice to have the choice.
Unfortunately, the invention is here in the UK - where there are already cameras all over the streets, Internet monitoring etc etc for "our safety". People will get pissed off and revolt in the streets... but that's never stopped our government before.
For those of us living in A4-using lands, it's a real pain in the arse trying to set everything (especially in Windows) from Letter to A4! Then you think you have it susses and sure enough... "PC Load Letter" - aaargh!
;)
Do you have any idea how much trouble and stress you've caused by making Letter the default even with UK set as the country?
How appropriate! Seeing the website is broken via slasdotting - a post nuke website, so to speak.
Heh, Barrow is said to be at "high risk" under threat by about 2070 or something like that.
:p
Speaking as someone who currently works there, I can confirm with confidence that it isn't a bad thing at all
"All these new crazes they have nowadays...
My daughter came home with a YoYo once. I think his name was Pete."
Very well said, and you're far from alone. I'm in exactly the same situation (working for a charitable organisation refurbishing older computers for those on a low income or emergency need) and just as frustrated by the apparent lack of an easy to use Linux distro that runs on them with any kind of sanity.
Don't be disheartened by Slashdot - it's a great wealth of information, but some of the users as you've already observed are very "leet" here - it's probably not the greatest place to try and find information on a high usability distro.
Best of luck to you, and if you do find anything please try to get an article up or let us know somehow. I too have spent many hours searching, trying distros like Peanut and Vector but haven't found anything that comes close to the ease of use and speed of Win95 on older computers.
I've hit the friend button so I can keen an eye out!
I completely agree with your statement on OO.o.
There are two things people ask when I install it for them:
* Where's Publisher
* Where's Access
If it can get a super-easy point-and-click desktop publishing app (and don't forget the cheesy clipart!), it'll be a good way there.
If it can get a database frontend that's as easy as Access for both the developer and the user, but naturally more secure, we're onto a winnner.
As a little bit of background, I work for a non-profit organisation that needs to do *a lot* of data tracking to please funders. When I started, whilst I was a typical "guru" in general I knew absolutely nothing about databases. I started creating relational databases in Access, and it went from there. But even now (despite its many weaknesses) I use Access because it's quick to develop with and users love having a graphical front-end. I'm definitely open to suggestions for a decent *free as in beer* (and preferably speech) database front-end. If OOo can have something like Access but without all its quirks (*cough*deliberate*cough*sell MS SQL Server*cough*), a lot of small businesses and charities will be happy. And that adds up.
Apathy might not be too far off the mark, but I think it's a little deeper a problem than that.
Linux (for instance) doesn't really *do* anything new that the average consumer cares about. That includes stability, security and neat GNU tools. Most people I've spoken to and failed to "convert" aren't bothered that they have to reboot once in a while. Some are concerned that they might get hacked, in which case they get a geek friend to install a firewall and do all the updates. Others aren't bothered at all ("there's nothing important on here anyway"). And they certainly don't care about geek tools that they'll never even try to understand.
On the desktop, it's generally seen by the public as a free "imitation" of Windows that's always trying to play catch-up. As slashdotters we know better than that, but even still... strictly in Linux's desktop capacity (and thinking of average users, not geeks)... it's largely true.
Linux needs to do something *groundbreaking* that Windows doesn't, that Microsoft can't suddenly copy, *and* that the public actually care about. That is no easy task, especially given Linux's open source nature. Microsoft can easily make a development top-secret (just look at information on their new Longhorn interface, or lack thereof) but how can an open-source project be kept secret?
Put simply though, Linux needs to stop playing catch-up and overtake - borrow Microsoft's buzzword and "innovate".
Until that happens, yes it'll continue taking over the server market, but for Desktop Joe it'll always be a product that does exactly the same things but with less support, less compatibility and always playing catch-up.
A positive example of hope is Mozilla Firefox. That is an example of how Linux should be. It's way better than IE, and I know a lot of general public users who do actually use it. My parents use it, friends, fellow board visitors that I've helped to convert etc. This is because it features built-in tabbed browsing, it's extremely easy to "clean up", isn't succeptable to popups, spyware, self-installers etc, it's easy to use and it looks good. These are innovations or features that Desktop Joe *does* care about and that Internet Explorer doesn't actually do. This is a perfect example of the combination of innovation on the OSS side and suicide from Microsoft. The suicide being that they were too greedy - they were determined to keep the next version of IE for the next version of Windows so that they could list it in the features and essentially charge for it. Unfortunately for them, they seemed to forget that Longhorn is dragging ass. Finally they have a new version planned for XP SP2, but is it too little too late? Time will tell.
Microsoft's suicide on the desktop OS market *could* be Longhorn, but Linux developers need to work at it too - hard and fast - and bring a little homicide into the equation. MS are taking so bloody long with the thing that Linux could have time. But in the 2 year window it has, it had better come up with something damn good for the consumer.
The other problem is popularity - it's the old problem of "it's not popular, so why should I be a guinea pig?". Most people I've failed to convert have at least once used the argument of "well I just want to stay with the mainstream, that way I'm compatible with everyone else." I can't really argue with that, as it's true - they can't just buy a piece of hardware (or software) off the shelf and expect it to work like they can with Windows. They can't just take a disk off a friend with some data they saved from some proprietary Windows-based software and expect it to open in Linux. What can we do? Nothing really, it has to gain popularity either gradually or through some awesome innovation that people are willing to give all this up for.
Is that pronounced "Dash McLeet"?
When Fortran grows up and people learn about his name's geek background, absolutely no one will screw him then either :)
"Down and Safe, Liberator. I expect one of the villains to conveniently steal my bracelet in around 15 minutes."
:)
Seriously though, would this ever take off? I think it'd fail due to looking goofy, somewhat like VR headsets did.
However, it's feasible through other input methods like say... a finger. I remember looking a little daft in the 80s operating a calculator watch, but at least it's not as bad as talking to it...
Y-Windows forced to rename itself to Y-Win---s (pronounced Why Windash) in some countries.
LOL Darlux...
EXTERMINATE!!
1. Use PC.
2. Get a flight sim.
3. Get a Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar joystick...
4. ???
5. Strong muscles!
Seriously, the springs on said joystick are ridiculously hard. If any other gaming will build up muscles, this will! (Personally I can't stand to use one for more than 10 minutes)
Or if it's someone with my luck, come back from the film with an "Error 1" and a bash prompt patiently waiting for your next attempt.
He seems to be working on "new projects" (solo by the sound of it) going by his slightly ranty website at dickmorrell.com
I'll be sure to avoid them!
Note he makes a point on the site of pointing out his remaining ownership of the Smoothwall copyright despite the fact that he resigned. What that means I don't know, but it smells very SCO-ish. He's an asshole of similar caliber to those guys.
Am I being thick, or does this mean a possibility of a scenario where a reader/burner is:
:(
DVD, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, EVD, EVD-R, EVD-RW, EVD+R, EVD+RW?
Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible. Fragmentation of a so-called 'standard' is a bad thing IMO
Try getting salesmen at PC World (UK) to try and explain *that* drive!
Well said.
To be honest, I'd rather have been kicked half to death than do through the emotional shit that school bullies imposed.
It hurt for a long time, more than a few broken bones would've...
I wish I could mod right now. That's one of the most sensible posts I've heard for a long time.
:(
Seems that recent parents don't know what 'wrapping them up in cotton wool' means, and why it's bad.
Your post expresses that perfectly.
Must everyone learn 'the hard way' rather than by other people's mistakes?
Going by the repeated wars and... heh... people subscribing to AOL despite opposite advice... I'd say yes
"You want to buy a... what?! HOW MUCH?!"
O MG that was so funny
"You want a rai....
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
There's the door..."
Seriously, that's what they're like. No exaggeration.
Last time I checked, it basically wasn't possible due to the closed design of them. But love Linux as much as I do, I still pick the most suitable hardware for my needs. An iPAQ answered that, with Windows CE.
:( My camera (which I like!) is MMC.
:)
I tried Familiar (heart beating FAST as it messed around with areas that can easily turn the iPAQ into a brick) and one of the main things that put me off was a lack of support for the MMC slot. Sure, I could bloat the size of it even further with a CF jacket, but... meh
The other thing that bugged me was Bluetooth. If you think it's behind the times in Windows, IMHO it's 5x worse in Linux. I've faffed with it for a week on a desktop machine, don't fancy the same on a handheld TYVM
Not being a troll, just submitting my perspective on things as an honest fan of Linux.