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Microsoft Authorized Refurbishers
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has announced a program to 'establish a vibrant community of computer refurbishers across 133 countries in Europe, the Middle East and Africa who will be authorized to re-install its Windows operating system in donated pre-used PCs destined for schools, charities, non-profit organizations and under-served communities...Microsoft will provide re-installation of Windows 98 Second Edition and Windows 2000 Professional in over 18 languages. The refurbished PCs will be accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) and a special End User Licence as evidence of a legally installed operating system.' XBruticusX submits a story on news.com about the program.
Slackware and Debian announced free operating systems for these refurbished computers...
...10 years ago.
A way to fight back as all the recycled machined getting Linux/*BSD installed on them. That's why they're "giving" Win98 for the lower end machines.
How odd that they would officially support the installation of an OS that's been EOLed (WinME is the oldest 16 bit still supported, yes?)
Bad management trumps ideology - Show the world you want better leadership. http://www.timefornewmanagement.com
Boy I can't wait to see how everybody takes this as a creative writing exercise to tell us about how this is proof Microsoft is evil.
"Derp de derp."
so you'll essentially pay for the license for a computer that already most probably had a license!
So I guess this makes sense for them(microsoft).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
establish a vibrant community of computer refurbishers across 133 countries in Europe, the Middle East and Africa who will be authorized to re-install its Windows operating system
I didn't know that the BSA had offices in Karachi and Djibouti. Who the fuck cares about Microsoft certification in the third world?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Make sure Bill Gates' tax decductible donations come back to him via Microsoft dividends and cap gains.
Man, I wish all my tax deductions went to pay for purchases from my company.
take from the poor give to the .. uuhmm.no. thats another story..
Only morons moderate based on a sig.
I think it is great there will be a legal way to bring these machines online: having worked with charities, often the limiting factor was the difficulty of getting Microsoft to relicense the software. Obviously, part of the motivation is to stem the use of free software, which was previously the only surefire way to remain legal. The implementation question that remains is how expensive the refurbishing services will be... too expensive and the practice of simply using an unlicensed copy of Windows or punting and using free products will continue.
Sig under construction since 1998.
isnt there already a vibrant community of people who will install linux for free on old pc's?:P
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
If the laptop/PC was bought with a install of Windows on it is it not legal to reinstall it?
As I recall the License says it is the install that is on that PC, it should transfer to the new owner shouldn't it?
MCOSR: Microsoft Certified Operating System Refurbishers?
So Microsoft can get refurbishers to pay again for an operating system that was licensed and installed on the system in the first place, since 99+% of PC's ship with windows when originally sold? Nice deal.
-- Greg
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
Hasn't Linux had a similar program in place for a while now?
The Dalai Llama
...nevermind...
My sig could be your sig!
While it is nice that people will be getting functioning (well, to Windows standards at least) computers, it nauseates me to realize that when the people using the computers enter the global economic system they will be 'hooked' on Micro$oft. Ugh. This is just like M$ 'donating' software to schools. It is not altruistic in the least, they just want to develop future customers.
...this seems to be a way for Microsoft to ensure that if the old operating systems need to be installed (on older hardware), someone will be "certified" to support them. Also, it's to ensure that the installation is legal.
It's basically second-party support.
---
Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.
and of course they take the full retail version fees on their taxes as a charity contribution. They won't support Win98, or probably the 2k because of some stipulation in the "special eula", but uncle sam will get charged the full brunt for a full OS purchase with support.
Just three more hours seapeople and you can finally take me away from this crappy God Damned planet full of hippies
And this is modded "insightful" ? Well, I don't know what's worse, to claim everything Microsoft does is evil, or to judge people before they even say anything
---
(I will bow to any proof that MS gives away licenses to American Non-Profit Orgs.)
I can see excluding Asia, Because much of that part of the world doesn't respect Copyrights, but still.
Is it just because MS is unable to establish the MS tax in the EU or something?--computers ship with OEM licenses that must be transferred along with ownership of the computer...
Considering that in several countries you can vist a shop to purchase a cd with windows longhorn even for less than $5. How many of these countries will actually care that you get a legal copy of windows with the referbished computer?
I guess its Microsoft's futile attempt to stop linux from taking over the world.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
So another way to look at it is that Microsoft is giving out free software to the "third world", and someone is going to pay for it. Which explains why Microsoft software in the U.S keeps getting more and more expensive
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
I know they've extended it, but isn't Win98 about to be EOL'ed? Is that to say MS is sanctioning the installation of an unsupported (support, patches, etc) OS?
The revolution will not be televised. It won't be on a friggin blog either
As the saying goes "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". (From The Iliad for those thinking it is racist.) This act is a trojan horse for Microsoft. They donate their wonderful products to those poor, pitiful people in the Third World so we they get them hooked on their technological crack. Once they get them hooked, they can peddle the more expensive crack because now everbody is hooked and has to have it.
Fight it people. Linux is free now and in the future. Can't say the same thing about MS Windows
No trees were harmed in the composition of this; however, numerous electrons were inconvenienced.
I seem to remember a story on slashdot a while ago about open source programs (particualrly word processing programs) getting support for obscure third world languages because people who knew them could just add support for new languages themsleves. They were doing it more to help others in the region they came from so they didn't worry if there was a nice market or not. Microsoft may have caught on that the third world is going to develop into a bigger market and wanted to make sure that it wasn't already dominated by Linux.
_____
Thank you.
1) build a mailing list using good intentions.
2) Send list to BSA's foreign equivalents
3) Profit!!!
Remember, Microsoft is a for-profit corporation. They do NOTHING without a profit-derived motive. If they do, the Board is not doing its job.
"Piter, too, is dead."
in the u.k. we didnt worry about it.
i think its safe to say developing countries will warez windows if they want it, and not bat an eyelid about the licence.
"And this is modded "insightful" ? Well, I don't know what's worse, to claim everything Microsoft does is evil, or to judge people before they even say anything ;-)"
Heh, don't blame me, I was aiming for 'funny'.
"Derp de derp."
ItShare SA, Computer Angels, and Computerbank Australia, are related groups in Australia doing this already - but with Linux. We provide safer systems accordingly, without the need for third party software to be paid for - such as Open Office etc. Having a donated Windows box is all well and good (Now, I don't actually think its that good..;) ), but what about the unsupported nature of Win98, the virus and other security issues, and the need to pay for third party software (unless someone points them towards OO, and other FOSS for Windows...).
Nothing - well thats something.
Microsoft already allows schools to "re-install" Win 98 and 2000 (sp3) on donated, older computers in the US. One registers, gets install media from Microsoft, tracks use, etc.
What does this do to the possible use of Linux in making older PCs useful in a school setting?
that this will probably have a *much* better effect on their bottom line than any of their "openness" here in the US.
C|N>K
Give away software save on you taxes. The key is to ensure that the software you give away doesn't impact your top line with the products you sell.... Hmm... windows 98 & 2K on refurbished systems, no danger there.
Microsoft will provide Windows 98 to schools, charities and non-profit organizations? Dear God. Is that not just a horrible form of torture? What have non-profit organizations ever done to deserve having Windows 98 put on their computers? That's just too harsh.
here's where reality kicks in
Have you ever *SEEN* most "donated" PCs? You'll be lucky if they're even functioning, let alone coming with things like the Windows license, documentation, peripherals, etc. Take what you can get, if MS wants to make it easy for people to put legit versions of Windows on their computers... more power to them. It certainly isn't my favorite OS, but if people are going to install it (illegally) anyway, at least now they'll be able to do it legally.
Some people are going to talk about how Free Software has been doing this for years; and they're right, it has. However if you're in a situation where you're fortunate to even have donated low-end computers, you're going to go with what your users know. And before you start in with the "thriving community of *nix users" etc...how many of those in the thriving community are willing to travel to some third world country to teach people how to use linux? I don't see the volunteers...
isn't this a good_hearted_move(TM) by M$?
This is mean. I'd imagine microsofts intention is to install windows 98 for free/cheap, then flood the client with adverts and reasons why they need to pay $100 to upgrade to Windows XP.
Everything sucks except musicandstuff
So now M$ benfits from the charitable acts of less rapacious companies. It would have made sense for them to charge no fee and take a tax writeoff of their own (for what exactly?), BUT NOOOO!
My other sig is in Aruba.
To err is human. To arr is pirate.
Let's see how the slashbots manage to spin this charitable act into another "Evil M$!!!!" ploy.
The Microsoft Authorised Refurbishers (MAR) Programme FAQ addresses this issue:
As for the "adminstrative fee," the FAQ explains:
To answer other questions, people may want to check out:
Microsoft Authorised Refurbishers Programme.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
Parent is insightful? Where are my mod points when I need them!? At best, its funny. At worst, a troll. Argh!
Most writers regard truth as their most valuable possession, and therefore are most economical in its use - Mark Twain
Just what we need, the entire third world running unsupported Microsoft OS'es. I thought Microsoft wanted to stop spam, not encourage it...
Anyone going online using one of these computers in a year or so will find out the hard way what the term "HaX0red" means.
Who's going to do windows update on these? These PC's will be one big DDOS launcher and spam host for all the spammers and kiddies out there. There are three upcoming remote vulnerabilites in windows 2000 according to Eeye's upcoming vuln. page.
x .h tml
http://www.eeye.com/html/Research/Upcoming/inde
I dont think these will be patched any time soon.
From the article:
"Computers donated by large companies are typically three years old and the MAR program upgrades the software to newer versions of Windows that donated PCs can support, for a nominal charge that covers materials and program operations.
Through the EMEA MAR program, Microsoft will provide re-installation of Windows 98 Second Edition and Windows 2000 Professional in over 18 languages."
Since when would installing 98SE onto a 3 year old machine be a newer OS?
...the "Go Fuck Yourself, Microsoft - I'm Installing Linux!" license. not only are the terms far better than MS's EULA, it's also more fun to say.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Some these machines may end up being connected to the net, at which point they will almost immediately be infected with a worm or turned into a DDOS or spam hosting zombie box.
I'm guessing M$FT doesnt care.
Sadly, my first thoughts on this weren't "Oh that's a good thing...", it was "What's the catch?"
I can see that it might be considered illegal to COPY an OS, but installing? I didn't realize that I had to be an "authorized installer"
Doesn't this mean BEFORE they have been used? Pre-Used?
I am sure that Tou Doua's Quality Discount Software and Authorized Microsoft Refurbishing Agency will be able to provide an easy upgrade to Windows XP Professional for the equivalent of $2.98 US and will include Office 2003 for an additional $1.50.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Also note that "program Fresh Start for PCs provides Microsoft software installation CDs and license at no cost to primary and secondary schools utilising donated computers."
<bart
They're only 133. Says so right in the article.
It's a Friday afternoon, and a quick scan reveals there are no good trolls in sight. Come on people, it's time to get with the program...
I am very, very disappointed with the Slashdot trolls' performance and it will be noted on your review.
not easily anyway, not any modern distro with a windowing desktop that a non guru can install and operate. Not on them old 16 meg ram machines they won't. 95 will though, and will work perfectly fine, it will surf, email whatever, type a report,etc. I have this problem all the time the olden antiques I refurb and give away, I haven't found a linux equivalent that will do all this with a GUI on these pent 1s.
I still have my old mac 512k. This has a nice GUI that ran off a dang undersized floppy, and I think if I recall it has one meg of RAM, something small like that anyway. Maybe it even has only half a meg, hence the name, I disremember now, but it ain't much, but IT WORKED.
What is it, why can't we (I mean linux) have something that will even come close now without requiring at least 128 megs? Is it just technically impossible because of the way a unix like system is designed? I find even 64megs RAM to be the bare-ly minimum for anything at all practically speaking, and even then it's a kludgy buggy slow exasperating experience. And no, I don't mean installing a CLI only thing, or having to hand carve your desktop windowing gui-like thing out of rocks and old sticks and spending half your spare time keeping it running muttering incantantions and entering runeish commands from a terminal, I mean a slide in a CD and install it and it works thing. Nothing fancy,it don't got to be real fast, just a GUI and a few normal apps.
MS is smart in this case, even with piracy over there as a norm, it costs them almost nothing, and we're talking about a still mostly untapped market of hundreds of millions of people, over a billion easy really. Hearts and minds.....
MS most likely had a bunch of CDs laying around costing money in storage. Also, don't have to pay tax on dontated software, in fact can now claim it as a tax credit for donating software. Microsoft will make money on this, one way or another.
"Hmm, we have all this 'product' that costs practially nothing to reproduce once it has already been developed. And we also have a bunch of poor people threatening to move to Linux.... hmmm. I know! Lets give away old versions of our software to indoctrinate these poor people and make them dependant on us! Yay!"
Wake me up when Ford starts giving away F150's to African farmers.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
It came up as , though.
The "You've got to be kidding me" dept
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
Microsoft recently said something along the lines of the security problem being partly due to many users being unwilling to [shell out money to] upgrade to the newest version of their OS. So which is it? Is Microsoft for security or against it? I'm confused.
If you read the article carefully, it says:
Microsoft will provide re-installation of Windows 98 Second Edition and Windows 2000 Professional in over 18 languages.
What Microsoft is doing is that they are giving away software. It really is charity, not a scam like some people say!
Think about it, if a company from the US donates a computer with a Windows 2000 license to some foreign country, most likely the license will be for the English version of Windows 2000.
As anyone who has ever worked for a company using different language of Windows knows, a license for the English version of Windows does not equal a license for Windows in another language!!! This is not only true for Microsoft software, but also true for many companies that sell software in different languages!
That said, Microsoft is really giving away a new license, and not asking to be paid twice for the same license that came with the original purchase of the computer!
Chief: what the fonoono?
2 weeks later on cnn: Bill gates dead! Parts of him were found around a bunch of lions, weeks after he went on a mission to africa to sell refurbished licenses for software installed on african computers.
seriously tho, how the fuck does microsoft think they are going to sell windows in african countries when ever bigger oil/mining companies shit themselves to have bases there because of the locals being treated like crap and uprising once in a while!
We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
Microsoft can try to hedge every single bet from here on, and still I think it's only a matter of time before Linux beats them in every market.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Hey man its like...GOOD FRIDAY how about a little respect!
Chuck
The fact that an organisation gives out anthrax is not turned into a good deed just because the recipients are charities.
A second Independent Thinker on Slashdot in just 7 days.
Mods, please kill his user account. Reasons: cannot follow groupthink, would not agree that Microsoft==evil, would not spell company name with a dollar sign.
Is there any irony in the acronym made by the new "Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher"? I've always known that Windows mar's my computer, but how nice of M$ to admit it.
Yeah, yeah... flamebait... troll... I know, I know, but the obviousness of the implied acronyn was just too much to pass up.
The only thing necessary for Micro$oft to triumph is for a few good programmers to do nothing". North County Computers
You clearly do not work for a non-profit. I am, at this very moment, in the building of a non-profit organization that has five out of eleven systems running Windows 95. I would love to have Windows 98 on those systems instead.
that's just great! Not only does MS find a way to make more money, but they also find a way to make hackers and virus writers even more happy by putting ultra vulnerable systems back on the web... I mean, sorry, but this just doesn't sound like a good idea to use win 2000 now that the source code has leaked! Not to mention the ever-growing number of viruses that will infect these machines and create a non-protectable because obsolete "virus pit" of the internet... It's like keeping someone with chicken pox in a public place: most people are vaccinated, but the few that aren't risk death if they get the disease. Oh, and of course it's an attempt to keep the youth prefering windows.... Everytime I read slashdot I get more unneverd by MS's outrageous actions! This is against common sense!!! When will law start following common sense???? probably not until the next Wallstreet crash because of the stupidest lawsuit ever... (which I thought was going to be SCO/IBM but it's not going to be bad enough to make a change in the legal system necessary...)
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
Computers donated by large companies are typically three years old and the MAR program upgrades the software to newer versions of Windows that donated PCs can support, for a nominal charge that covers materials and program operations.
Giving away? Doesnt look like it from here.
emt 377 emt 4
It has. If you do some research (I'm too lazy to hunt for links for you), there are people now who basically pull up near a cargo ship in a small boat with a bazooka (or rocket launcher or whatever it is) and demand payment/ goods or they will sink the ship. Also, some guy who had competed in the America's Cup or some other sailing-type event was killed by pirates. Seriously. Piracy is like slavery in that most of think of it as just history, but it's still going on in parts of the world.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
They're doing this just to combat the use of Linux and *BSD etc, because they know that up until now they've never provided any of older copies of their OS free of charge for use in older machines because they are in CAHOOTS WITH INTEL AND OTHERS in the great and evil CULT OF THE UPGRADE.
The ONLY reason they're doing this is to try to undermine what has become one of the key uses of Linux and *BSD, installing legally in refurbished, recycled machines. It's even more dispicable than that because it's no even the an action taken in the free market, it's normally for charitable reasons that machines are refurbished, so they are doing this just to flex their corporate muscles NOT for any alturistic reason.
REMEBER. MICROSOFT IS NOT NICE, IT IS EVIL, THEY ARE GREEDY, SELFISH BASTARDS AND THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT. They run MSNBC, they give money to the Republicans. Don't trust them, wipe your hard drive of that horrible, despicable, evil virus that is their joke of an OS. FREE YOURSELF. Go on you know you can!
Upgrade your life.
And every computer running their product is one less for the competition...
A Eula restricting transfer of the use of the product is rather worthless in most (European) countries I know, in Africa and Asia most people and governements couldnt care less anyway.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Advice: on VPS providers
and I authorize myself to install Linux on them and erase windows as fast as humanly possible..
http://www.systemrecycler.com
From what I see, this is a good move by Microsoft. This is an untapped market while they spend no money on development and they make a profit at the same time.
50+ billion in the bank and they still can't modify a license to accomodate donating to charity. Sad really.
Did you give them a demonstration of a LiveCD distro such as Knoppix? Quick, easy, and a real eye-opener for even the most ardent of MS-supporters.
Hello, I hate everything in the world. However, I bequeath my deepest hate towards Microsoft for their charitable deeds, because as with all entities that spawned from Satan's uterus (bet you didn't know Satan was a woman), every good deed comes with vile ulterior motive. I won't be surprised if most of the users declare Jihad on the world, after having exhausted their capacity to restart the computers on an absurdly frequent basis.
So cheers to Microsoft for its relentless, evil ambitions. And remember, when the world is inevitably taken over by robots, the robots commiting the hate crimes will without a doubt be powered by the Longhorn OS.
what am I talking about? What are YOU reading, and why is this difficult to understand? 48 megs of RAM, you are OVER the top by a factor of 3x as much RAM by my criteria. I have a lot of old pent 1s at 90 or 100 mghz with 16 megs of ram, and hunting down and getting after market RAM sticks is extremely cost prohibitive, and a lot of these older machines take very precise sticks. Extremely, even if you can find the crap. The best I have done is on a 166 mghz machine that had a single stick of 64 megs in it, I got both redhat and knoppix to (barely) run on it. I'm on a 200PP right now, and it works OK,I like it actually, *after* I bought another 64stick, and then another stick of 128 megs ram,now it works swell, before it had come with 32 and wouldn't run (or install) RH7.1, the first distro I owned and tried. I've got 7.1, 7.2, mandrake 8.0, RH 8.0, various knoppix and a morphix, and FC1 here, and around 128 seems to be the magic number in non-guru land, for me anyway.
.......
See the problem really is the ram, not the cpu speed, near as I can see, and a free or 5$ machine is not worth spending literally 60-70 dollars on just to try and track down some oddball RAM. I'd add another stick of 128 to my own machine, but they want 90$ for it!!!! Not happening. I've borked a few machines now using RAM that alleged gurus told me "would work in your machine".
Now imagine you are joe third world, how hard it is going to be to get more RAM of the exact correct kind, or even maybe another hard drive that is large wenough to both install the system and have enough swap space. A lot of these machines only have like 600 meg hard drives. It's a pain in the tush to make anything but windows work on them. I don't even try, I mean after you've tried a dozen times, it gets old, and I'm not command line tweaking installing compiling all kinza crap for a freebie give away machine, I got other things to do.
I'm not trying to say it can't be done, but I am merely asking for a pointer to a distro with any example where someone has a normal system running a full fledged easy to install and config GUI on 16 megs on a low end pent 1, and I ain't seen it yet. Every example I have seen requires a lot of command line, and when you get done you still have to comamand line some window like thing, then do this that and the otherand it's still not much of a GUI. No thanks. I'm not a guru, just someone who gives away old boxes to kids who's families are so poor they don't even own telephones (yes, this is USA I am talking about), and until I can find a linux equivalent, these boxes go out the door with 95 or 98 on them, because at least those will boot and run and install easy on 16 megs, you get a window system, etc, and I *wish* it weren't so, because I'd love to turn these kids onto linux.
I repeat, it needs to run on 16 megs RAM, 32 at the most, be able to easily install from a cd without using a geek dictionary for acronyms and vague man commands that make little sense, and to be run almost 100% GUI after installation.
And no matter WHAT I type, someone leeter than me who can't read is gonna retort they got foodows window like-experience desktopping manager running after tweaking the config sys/etc/stab yo momma file blather yada yada, etc, well, except for the video and audio and the drives don't seem to work and
Nope
I don't care about that, these are going to end users even lamer than I am. I am between aunt tillie and.. whatever, and if I can't install and run it, sure as heck the end users are gonna be frustrated within 5 minutes and borrow their cuzzin leroys copy of windows and install it anyway.
I think it's better to just admit that X is a full bore no doubt about it gross resource hog, and not pretend it ain't. I'm not a coder and I don't know why, but it sure is or seems to be. I am not complaining, I appreciate all the work that has gone into it and the price is right, but I think my observations are *true facts*. If someone can point me to a Distro th
The bad news about dinner. The cat dumped in our pot and it all taste like shit. The good news about dinner. There's plenty of it.
Can I bum a sig?
That is fucking awesome!!!!!!
Here's a little something for the conspiracy theory majors: what if what they're doing provides them with handsome tax advantages.
I'm lovin' it.
microsoft evil....
can't breathe....
aaaaarrrrrgggggggggggggg.....
We have sent systems to East Timor, including a volunteer to teach a core group who can then provide support..so YES, it does happen
Nothing - well thats something.
One of the more important points that has been raised here, which I find relevant is the problems of viruses and worms. A worm has a payload of a few KB at most, while the patches that are required are a few MB( if ever M$ puts them out).
In Africa and poorer parts of Asia, phone lines still charge by the minute. Dial-up is still slower than 56 Kbps (I've worked on connections of 7-8 Kbps too, due to less bndwidth/more customers at the ISP, who is milking everyone for all his worth). Connections break and have to be re-established. What is the chance of a non-profit taking the effort to actually download and install the patches? Conversely, there is a high chance of it being infected. (I speak from experience in a small town in India, where I've sat up half the night to get my Windows 98 box upto speed on all patches). Of course, it would be too much to expect M$ to give away CDs of patches as well.
Thank you Steve and Bill. Finally normal people can depend on one single company that just does not beat around the bush when it comes to ripping you off. person 1 : "In the past I could not count on companies ripping me off as they should, but with microsoft i know i'm paying triple the price for a crummy product, thank you MS !!" and another happy customer. person 2 : " I took some deals on IT and got just what I asked for. Now thats not right. But with this new Microsoft deal I can finally pay as many times for a piece of crap as I want to.. great deal people !." And now the sales dude . " YES, It's true. the product you never wanted comes at a premium price of 3000 times the value and 10 times the normal price. get one version of windows today and pay for it like you bought 10 copies. You can count on us not to rip you off". I really do not like them.. ( +5 for understatement of the year. retep.
-- forget
31st March 2005. Win ME expired on 31 Dec, 2003.
See here for more details.
Wow, I wish I had their skills.
Problem: People are using old computers to experiment with Linux, and aren't paying us enough money.
Solution: Provide a seemingly philanthropic way for these people to donate their computers, and make them feel bad for selfishly hoarding computers that could otherwise be used for kids. Then, when this plan works, sell more addon licenses for products such as Office. When these refurbished Win98 and Win2000 machines propagate, scare the schools into buying new computers with WinXP by inundating them with stories of hackers and crackers.
Oh, I guess that means that the PCs will need upgrading very soon then.
With a bit of luck MS will be kind to remind the new owners.
--
Do as I - be yourself.
I for one, tried to submit a similar story...the details are exactly the same, except it was for k-12 schools, not other countries...but I'm sure its the same program. Check it out:
Microsoft giving free licenses to K12 schools Monday February 23, @12:35PM Rejected
WTF? Over?
Switched from Win95 to XP last year. Machines they bought only a year ago were loaded with Win95.
So it can be newer.
isn't what I am asking, but getting closer. Look back at it again. You said "linux 2.2, 2.4", but that doesn't tell me what distro it is. Linux is a kernel, there isn't a distro called "linux". Well, there is but it's a RH clone. Anyway, did you compile it,install from a command line in a terminal, have to tweak drivers and whatnot, or dids it install from a CD pretty easily? answer a few questions, click here, clcik there? See, I have to think about the end users/kids I give this to, if it gets screwed up, THEY got to be able to fix it if it's bad by re installing from a disk.
See? I get responses, I appreciate it,but they haven't answered my questions. This winow manager is lightweight, this other one might work, etc, and such and such from the olden days, but yet no single answer, because I know why, it ain't been done, can't be done. And linux gurus wonder why man pages are hard for people to understand, regular old english can be hard to understand too.
I ain't mad, I'm just giving up on this project, I will finish out giving away the boxes I have, with windows on them, and someone else can be the linux evangelist, I won't be doing it anymore, too frustrating. I'll use it personally, but I can't recommend it yet to other people with older machines, and if they buy new machines some OS or another will be on them. It was just something I thought I could do to help some poor kids from poor families. Screw it, thanks anyway for replying though, you and the other guys. Not answering anymore on this thread, I'm getting too frustrated. That less than half a dozen spec points are too hard to understand it seems. Sheesh.
Which means that in the third world,which has the fastest growing population and is starved for computers, and is gonna get them,old and used first, but the ones that make the impression on them, that MS is gonna arrive on those machines and stay on 99% of those machines, too.
I got no dog in this fight, but some ya'all who DO got a financial dog in the OS fight might want to think on that some... that's a lotta eyeballs and people out there who could use some help, roughly along the same lines I was outlining. I'll let *someone else* tell muhammed magooba josse whatever to CLI install the 2.xxx kernel, and to be sure to roll in the fluxbox then adjust the video raster on his monitor and freq and re compile the horiontal audio module, etc, cuz I sure as heck can't tell anyone over there that.
MS is gonna slap a cd in their hands that they can click thru on ancient boxes and it will more or less work.
Over one billion people, new markets, where most of the oil comes from,.and a lot of our food in the near future, and raw materials, etc, and most will be running on MS unless this is addressed, soon. I don't code, can't help there. Since I've first used it, it's got ridiculous, I am thinking about a personal "distro freeze" and stopping upgrading, because I can't afford a new machine right now, and last install I barely squeaked through with lots more ram than 16.
Old PB still works though. for now. Jobs priced me right out of apple, no way could I get anything today from them. sigh. I feel third worlded in my own country, I'm being priced or bloat coded right out of computing, I can smell it coming.
Sorry, I am just sad, that's all, this is like pulling teeth to get what I am asking and pointing out understood, it ain't worth it. "close enough" but still 2 or 3 times off in specs and size and speed and complexity of install and use combined with vagueness is only good for warfare with hand grenades in close situations, it isn't what I have been asking for or pointing out observationally.
I do appreciate the reply though, thanks. I give up.
I stopped being lazy and found a link. Apparently they were "river pirates".
I'd rather be lucky than good.
many of the companies/charities supplying the refurbs are based in the US or other countries which do care about copyright violations. A company based in such a country committing a crime in another country will be prosecuted in their home country.
It'd be like Sony opening up shop somewhere to sell/give away pirated CDs of competing record companies. Sony would be taken to court in whatever country it's parent headquarters is in.
If a charity has no ties to the US or any other nation that enforces copyright laws then they would be capable of not caring.
If a charity is knowingly working with a company committing piracy it could bite them in the ass no matter if they do think of themselves as Robin Hood.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Just quietly, but Microsoft seems to be winning that battle. Check out Google Zeitgeist - Linux's main competitor for user base is Windows 95, both on 1%. On these real world figures, Microsoft should be more scared of Macintosh.
thanks, you 100% got what I was saying and asking. There exists a TERMENDOUS international niche market that would go with all these millions of used machines out there, that instead of going to the landfill, could be used, with a free open source OS, would get all these third world folks juiced on computing, and using open source, but are gonna be using win 95 or 98 or close to that, because... I don't know why not. I've been looking for over a year now for a solution, haven't found it yet. Leave out one of the criteria, it's a non starter. If and when someone comes out with such a distro, it will be quite well received. I tried morphix lately it's a decent start, but still not quite there, it wouldn't run at all on most of the antiuqe boxes I have, let alone the older monitors, most of those won't use linux at all, I have to purchase 14 inch svgas and still hand tweak them to display, which ups my cost(real low semi retired fixed income, this gets pricey for me) on the give-aways. I got a shelf full of color monitors that are useless now, but they WILL run windows easily, every one of them. Not an engineer, I don't know why,(don't care, I accept it) but that's my reality. Windows goes on the boxes, much as I don't wanna.
Huge giant growing and expanding international market almost completely untapped, just opening up going *begging*,gonna be handed to microsoft on a silver platter, seems like such a waste.. oh well
Because, Saints forbid! that someone actually do something to a computer that MS doesn't bless!
One wonders if MS has ever heard of illegal product tying, the principal of first sale, the MS consent decree, and unrevocable rights of users. Naaa. They just fork over more money to the elected officials and pretend the law doesn't apply to them.
I've been sitting on a domain name for a while, I think now is the time to put it to work.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Don't give up just yet. Do you know about the RULE Project? (an up to date yet lightweight version of RH made for just this sort of application) And then there are the distros like Crux, Peanut and Vector etc. My own systems were stock standard Mandrake, all I did was select the appropriate packages. In fact I'm still using those lightweight tools under Mdk 9.2 - IceWm/Sylpheed/Firebird/OO.org etc are all included on the install CDs. I'm not sure how hard it would be to create a customised reinstall-CD for such a system, but I am sure it can be done. You can see examples of a lightweight Mdk at The Lofat Linux page.
Is a pre-used computer different than a used computer?
Don't give up completely yet!
There are people who agree with you, and are working on something similar to what you are asking for. Note that I am not an expert on this, but I thought it was an interesting and valid question, as I have a penchant for running Linux on old/retired (mostly non-x86 though) hardware. I am a professional sysadmin, so I don't think too much about getting something up and running on a weird machine, as that is what interests me. But I am also aware of the ease of use/installation issue, because I have supported Macs and Windows machines for years, and used Macs at home for years as well. You can't beat the "stick a CD in the drive, click a button, walk away, and when you come back there is a working system" model of installation.
Anyway, for a project that seems to be aligned to what you are asking for, you might want to check out the RULE project. I just found out about them recently, and I don't know how up to date they are, but they seem to have similar goals to what you have described. They claim that one of their installers can run in 12Mb of RAM, and the other in 6Mb. They install mainly a stock copy of Redhat, but with the package list stripped down to make a smaller profile. In addition, it appears that they are doing some work on the Kdrive X server, which is a very small XFree86 replacement.
Unfortunately, my lowest spec Intel machine (a p133 laptop), that I used to test and run things to make sure it worked on slower machines, was stolen when somebody broke into my house, so I have no way at the moment to test the RULE project out. Most of my other machines are SPARCs or Powerpcs, so they don't work with this project. You might want to check out your local Linux user group, as in my experience they are usually packrats, and have lots of old machines, and a willingness to help.
These refurb'ed computers compete with new and refurbished Dells, Gateways, and every other new x86 PC, and their sales are largely at the expense of that market share. That of course ripples up the supply chain to Intel and AMD. Microsoft is flexing its muscle as these HW vendors continue to grow their Linux support and marketing. By Longhorn/2006, we'll be seeing new M$ brand computers competing directly.
--
make install -not war
VectorLinux was created to fulfill this need.
Older distros should work well enough. It is not necessary to use KDE, as most Distros contain alternat WindowManagers. BlackBox, FluxBox, TWM, IceWM, Sawfish/Sawmill, or FVWM will all work fine on low RAM machines.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
... that's getting more like it. I tell you, I feel like issuing a big public coding/packaging challenge that follows my criteria *freeking exactly*. If I had prize money or something I would do it. What say, good idea or whack? My thinking is, if the coding goes back in time, if code gets written that will run excellently on these olden days machines,using those as a minimum benchmark, think how it might run on newer faster machines. From my point of view, if it could be done 15 years ago or longer off a single floppy, or even a single cd, 16 megs ram, pent 1 class, under one gig hard drive,maybe even just a half a gig, and still have E-Z GUI install, be NON confusing to run, had a dozen apps for the most popular uses in "computing", it would be a hit, a smash. The high end bleeding edge is being covered in spades, all over, by Mac, MS, and the *big* linux guys. Swell, that's cool, but that's much less than 1% of the population has these machines that that sort of effort is being designed for. It's necessary those efforts are being made,obviously, I am glad it's happening, but it's also necessary to help insure that computers are not relegated to the scrap heap after only a few years. That leaves 100 million computers + world wide out there that NONE of these high end efforts are addressing, outside a very few hobbyists, and this new MS initiative. Someone is sure missing the boat here.
Thanksagain! I'll check out the link. Still thinking about the Grande OS Challenge though, I'll write it up if anyone thinks this is a worthwile challenge and will be responded to, and if anyone wants to help me get it going offically with host space or whatnot for the (minimal) website.
I can offer a nifty scrawled certificate of mega-coolness and one (1) "Ohh it's shiny and pretty!" silver dollar as prize money to the winner who has the best offering that hits all the criteria. Miss one, no see gar.
Cool, or whack? Heck, anyone can run brute force crypto attacks using a 1700 node distributed cluster **^%,
well, maybe not but I want to see someone hit this OS challenge using free/open source. I'd be impressed with that.
Try The RULE Project. Their specs are different from yours, but the sentiment is there, & yes, they are trying to create a CD installer, with a gui. Another important factor is that they are trying to create a customized distribution that is up to date. Most small distributions are using old kernels & software that should no longer be used.
I should point out, though, that a gui should not be the only way to install. The important thing is whether or not there is feed back. I'm open to using a BASH script that explains why you have to do such-n-such or can't use this or that. I think that as long as the feed back is meaningful & much of it is automated, then they should be okay.
I must say, though, whether we're talking about MS or Linux, I can't imagine getting useful wordprocessors on those old computers. Browsers & email, maybe, but I don't know of any good Linux word processors for small computers. Maybe Corel would help?
If anybody creates a distro for small computers, then please put aside your GPL religion for a moment, & install Opera. It's faster, smaller & better than Mozilla. It's also allows users to customize style sheets for the web sites that they visit.
testing out my trending skills
I see a lot of people telling other people thy are morons,go RTFA,learn how to read etc,etc. some of those same people maybe should LEARN HOW TO FUCKING SPELL! why do i say this? well,because those same people think NOONE is a fucking word,IT IS NOT!! no one is not a compound word! A compound word is made when two words are joined to form a new word,and noone is not one of them,ok assholes? don't believe it? try this: http://dictionary.reference.com/
I ain't mad, I'm just giving up on this project, I will finish out giving away the boxes I have, with windows on them, and someone else can be the linux evangelist, I won't be doing it anymore, too frustrating.
:)
:) Forums? hehe. Usenet? *snort*. IRC? who kidding...
I know of what you speak. I was the linux "evangelist" in a little dinky town in northern minnesota where nobody had heard of it at all. Made a few converts here and there...
See? I get responses, I appreciate it,but they haven't answered my questions.
In all honesty, zogger, what you need is a friend who you can share these experiences with and is willing to help; posting on slashdot is not the answer. Not flaming, being serious. Slashdot is not a help forum - it happens, but it's not. (for that matter most of usenet is useless the same way nowadays, but that's another rant). See my other response.
that MS is gonna arrive on those machines and stay on 99% of those machines, too.
On the machines you describe, it'll be W95 and W98; and not to offend, but you'll be opening these people up to more problems than they can deal with, given the age of the OS and lack of real security fixes. Some of that might account for the huge rise of zombied windows machines lately (not you, just the increased use of older win). I know that doesn't affect the short term where you are at, but long term can be much, much worse (I know, I was a win9Xtech for years).
As to hideous installs; see my other post. It's not all ground zero
Can't say as to what you are dealing with WRT to your users; but I know well the trials of getting linux installed on old systems with minimal support. Dialup on old phone lines from buttfuck minnesota
Good luck to you...
SB
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
Apple's did the same w/ OS 7.5.3 long ago.../ Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Maci ntosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3 /
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area
In reading the M$ FAQ on this, I see that it is Windoze98 SPECIAL EDITION and not SECOND EDITION, whatever the difference is. Plus I did not see in the FAQ that all of the virus patches (current and future) are to be applied. It just looks like the base system and no install CD's are to be provided. Just think...MAR systems being used in 419 scams and virus hacked to spam to boot...woo hoo!!!
You are correct.
A possibility
They're gracefully allowing for the software to be "reinstalled", probably the same software that came already in the machine with one of their shitty OEM licenses but became unusable due to viruses, worms, and plain bloatware their shitty operating system accumulates, and needs a reinstall.
I guess text would be OK, as long as it was extremely clear, straight forward, and did the job without acronym hell. Most people don't even know what a partition is, other than they got one someplace "in there".
I've got a few more good leads in the responses so far at the links, I will pursue it some more. Vector claims 32 megs, a pent 1, but recommends about double that. I'll check out the others. Being on a slow dialup means like 5$ or so per distro snail mail though. I guess I'll find one. Rules looks good, too.
Seriously, show me the plane and i'll get on it. I don't care where or when (and I don't even have a passport), but if you want someone to help, I'll be there.
Anything's got to be better than administering a win98 network for idiots.
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
There really should be a Godwin's law corellary for when people use the term 'jack booted'.
Microsoft dumps unneeded Win98se licences on third world countries after the product is EOLed . . .
Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
You might want to look outside of Linux. I was attempting to do precisely what you're trying to do. And I found that Linux may not be the best choice. I came across muLinux...which is a lightweight Linux that's supposed to work off of a floppy. I never was able to install it on my test system and it seemed rather limited (as it fits on a handful of floppies).
So I searched for another solution and came across NetBSD. NetBSD will run on very old hardware...I installed it on an 80386-25MHz system with 4MB of RAM and a 100MB HD. The version I am using is fairly recent: 1.5.3. There's only two versions newer than this. Granted I am not using the GUI with this configuration but I suspect that given a Pentium class system with 16MB of RAM you could use the GUI. I intend to install the GUI on this system after bumping up the RAM another 4MB (the systems maximum) and increasing the HD to a 4GB model (which may be difficult as this system has fixed C/H/S...I cannot specify my own).
It's a very easy install...insert a 1.44MB floppy and restart the computer. The install was performed over the network via FTP...it's very easy to do.
Not saying this is the solution...but if it runs on an 80386 with 4MB of RAM a 16MB system would probably work.
Ignorance is poverty. Everything on the wall costs money, might not work with a particular version of winblows, and is available without cost in free software. Show them kpackage, deselect or aptitude. People who have used music sharing programs shrug and ask, "so what". Then you tell them that all that software is free and intended to be so by the authors. Boom, the ignorance is over. You then tell your client that you can make anything on the list work for them for a small fee anytime they have a problem doing it themselves and you have business.
It works for you and it can work for them and make you money too. Free software is like that. Offshore that jog, Balmer baby!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
proof?
I was just thinking, that since this discussion is focused on reusing old computers, then it is likely that the user won't want to dual boot. Maybe the installation process could be smoothed over by autopartitioning the drives. Since the software should be able to detect the amount of memory, it should also be able to estimate the amount of swap required.
/boot /home [recommended]
As far as I can tell, the only partitions needed are
/
swap
Heh, whatever. I hope something happens soon, though.
testing out my trending skills
I mean no. No on all counts.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
WHAT about my old PC's? What about when I WAS IN MY HOUR of NEED and MS shafted me and told me to get lost, go to hell, piss up a rope there Mister, we own yer shit and have nothing for you. WHAT about that? I BOUGHT TWO LAPTOPS and I did not OWN the MONOPOLY O/S. Microsoft owned it and they would do NOTHING but I could not legally turn on the machines. I ripped both of them to pieces with my bare hands. I WILL NOT BE PLAYED like a RUMMY. I will not be HAD by those CROOKED JERKS. DIE MICROSOFT - FUCKING DIE. I still find MS-RIGGED websites in the most official places. DIE MICROSOFT DIE. HAS ANYONE thought of making Congress make a GD'd interoperability LAW? Or are you all just a bunch of stupid backwards Americans? THE NEW MANDRAKE 10.0 looks GOOD. I put it on a THINKPAD today. SUSE. YOPER. MANDRAKE. I WAS on the telephone with NOVELL today. And WHY? you may ask? DIE MICROSOFT! DIE ! FUCKING DIE MICROSOFT ! ! ! DIE ! ! ! GOODBYE ! & DIIIIEEEEEE ! !!!
If you hate them, do it properly and hate them fully.
reminds me of "revolutionary advance in toilet bowl cleaning technology" (believe it or not, they actually say this in commercials on american TV). Someone got their adjectives seriously wrong. :0)
that MS is using 98SE for the program instead of Millennium Edition? Even THEY believes ME is a pile of crap!
...to Microsoft...
They are IN FACT criminals.... in more than one county...
Just quit. Microsoft - worse than smoking cigarettes. Should be outlawed in the schools. How to be butt-ugly-stupid? -Spend five minutes on a Microsoft (owned) machine. NEVER ever again. PS I HATE THEM, I HATE THEIR STINKING GUTS.
If you hate them, do it properly and hate them fully.
So well stated that you have inspired me to use the "friend" button. It is nice to see that there are people on the internet that see the way things are and not just how they want them to be.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Program helps under-served communities, schools and NGOs realise their potential
How are people going to realise their potential using Microsoft products?
This is like the Gates Foundation donating computers to libraries - computers that MUST be configured with exactly the Microsoft products the Foundation insists on, and which may NOT use any other software whatsoever.
Something like the gorgeous Mother Teresa.
A few years back Gates was asked about software piracy in China. Yes, they're stealing software in China, said Gates, and as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal OUR software. Then in a few years, when they're hooked on it, we'll figure out a way to make them pay.
This is more snake-oil business. Get these people hooked on MS Shiteware and then make them pay through the nose later.
Gates doesn't have a benevolent bone in his body.
Meanwhile, MS gets its tax rebates based on the full retail price of 98SE, a product they no longer sell to anyone.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Wow, cool. Competition for Indymedia / Linux. Indymedia is currently occassionaly busy with moving old recycled computers to parts of the world (2nd / 3rd world countries). From what i understand, they put a Linux distribution which is focused or set up for the local language. (info is public on lists.indymedia.org)
I am wondering though. Doesn't this proof that the product they license is actually too expensive here? There are even stories where hosting companies get free (as in beer) licenses when they didn't make the switch. Munich got a discount. Ordinary people who buy a computer however (Joe Doe & Co, official member of the middle class) have to buy the fool/full price whereas the OEM is laughing 3rd party. Aren't they selling it too expensive? When they had competition who sold their product for $X less they'd had to lower their price. Heck, who dares to compete with MS these days...
In another way, the price could be relative to what people earn. But that's not the way it goes with technical products either afaik. So why should it be for MS products like MS Windows?
I sincerely hope this project will not hold much waters. I hope instead Linux and FLOSS will be adopted...
You can get all of that, except "modern" web browser, with Win 3.1. I ran that on a 286, 4MB RAM, for years. Office 4.3/Lotus Smartsuite /Word Perfect all do everything you could need in an office suite. Email -- Eudora 3, which I still use on Win 98. Browser -- Netscape 3 or 4. There are better ones I'm sure; as I was on a 28k modem, as most of those will be who are restrictd to old hardware, that was the bottleneck more than the computer or software. I often just logged on to a command line and ran lynx to find stuff quickly. Also of course, none of the viruses or exploits going around will have any luck with this setup.
I just had this clarified last week with the Microsoft OEM manager for my country (lets just say some place in the south Pacific) because my firm trades in ex-lease equipment.
The OEM license is transferable as long as the COA remains with the PC and the original conditions of the OEM license are met (e.g. the hardware of the machine does not significantly change). I was asking this question of MS because a lot of machines are shipped from the big PC vendors to corporate customers without individual media kits (CDs / manuals), which are actually part of the MS definition of a license (along with a COA).
The only proviso was that the version of Windows listed on the COA must be installed with legitimate media, but that could come from any source - OEM, select, retail etc....
For clarification do get onto the MS licensing people and start asking some questions, that's what they are there for.
It takes about 5 minutes to boot Mepis and 15 to install it. Most high paying professionals will have an IT staff or company. A 30 minute demo is all it takes to cinch the bid and get the work. The free price will always be lower and the product will always be better.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Ok, I think its time for the software business to take the next big baby step to adulthood and once and for all abolish licenses.
I mean come on... does that GM or Ford car come with a licence. NO. Does that Magtag washer come with a license. Of course NOT.
So why then should a computer OS come with a license? What is the need for a ELUA with any software other then to set out VERY SIMPLE TERMS OF USE.
Simple. Its a monopolists way to control the market. PERIOD.
Fuck MS, Fuck Bill Gates and that fat fuckin' prick Steve Ballmer. I'm going to donate my PCs and software to whom ever I choose and if they want to take me to court for donating my stuff to charity then fine... see you in the headlines!
We've got to do something about this fuckin' company before they completely cover the planet with their corporate bile! Please. A revenue stream from charities...how fuckin' sick is that!
Opera and AbiWord are very good for old hardware and available on both Linux and Win.
AbiWord is very small and has an on-the-fly spell checker (like smart tags). Opera browser is also very small and faster than most browsers and can run on older hardware. You can download older versions somewhere on the opera site, for Linux, Windows and even win 3.11. Pressed for time, can't find link...
If installing AbiWord on win95, some versions ask for updated DLLs, but some previous versions do not. Likewise, newer versions of Opera are slightly slower then older version.
It is obvious that Microsoft is terrified at the thought that all those donated PCs could be used for running Linux. Think about this; once someone has got used to using OpenOffice.org on Linux, they have no reason to spend money on Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office -- and that satisfied Open Source user is likely to spread the message to friends and relations. So if Microsoft can prevent people from installing Open Source, they will take a slight loss in order to do so. Just like a crack dealer giving free samples to kids -- the initial investment will pay a dividend when they have no option save to start coming back for more .....
So Microsoft is fighting back with a PR move and FUD spreading exercise. "Look," they are saying, "We are making it easy for you to stay legal." {Never mind that there's another, very easy way to make sure you stay legal and you might already be legal; see below}. I suppose they also want to prick a few consciences. In the past, they have turned a blind eye towards "casual copying" -- they'd rather you used a pirated copy of Word than OpenOffice. They'd still rather you paid for it, though, and this initiative looks like an attempt to catch flies with honey as opposed to vinegar.
There are two things wrong with the suggestion that a licence would not be valid if the equipment was passed onto another person. Firstly, the Microsoft EULA cannot prevent you from transferring your licence, because the law of the land says nobody can take away your right to do that. Secondly, the law of the land also says that you are innocent until proven guilty -- that is, that even if you have lost the original installation media, C. of A. or other proof of your licence, the onus would be on Microsoft to prove that you never had it in the first place.
But, of course, ignorance of your rights is good for Microsoft, and they are likely to be able to persuade at least some people to buy new licences to use software they were already licenced to use.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
...on one of these boxes here to rebuild. Got a new customer today, a 4 year old kid who wants a computer of his own. He even asked me! I was in the church thrift store, I've seen him before, a very outgoing talker kid, he's a born ratchet jaw, I can relate on that issue... Anyway. So I said, "your folks got a computer you can use?" He goes "Ya they do! but I want MY OWN!!!" heheheheh WELL WHO DON'T! I talked to his mom, he got a birthday next month. We'll see what we can do here get him fixed up with something.
... last night I was just getting frustrated, dragging in over emotionalism to what was a simple observation combined with a question. I've got a ton of decent responses so far, it's more than I thought existed last I looked at small distros.
Man, I gotz TOO MANY PROJECTS! HAHAHAHAHA!
I'm still accumulating parts for my MONSTER MOWER I want to build, just for a hoot. Like them monster trucks. It's a geezer suburban thing.... no one cares about your ride, bragging points are YOUR LAWNMOWER! HAHAHAHA! I guess I need a computer crammed on there too. So far it ain't monsterized, but I got a cb and an am/fm radio and dual batteries.
dial up makes it redickalus hard to try out various distros and whatnot, just keeping a kitchen sink install patched and updated is tedious.
BUT, to me the other advantages of living in north_cow_flop rural USA make up for it. Always tradeoffs.
Cool stuff living rural:
Hmm, never no problem finding a place to take a leak....
traffic jam is two bubbas parked next to each other in the road jawin'. You just wait till they are done, cuz next week you will do similar.
Lax driving laws on weird mechanized stuff being operated on the "roads", ie, no one gives a care, even the cops
The "supermarket" is out in the back yard all summer for most things
The winter heating energy crisis can be mostly solved with you + saw + handy woods next door
There's always someone with a worse looking truck than you, and his is still running, so you don't feel pressurised to go "upgrade" your pickemup so often, saves on cash you ain't got anyway...
"Steaks" are lame enough to come over to your backyard "supermarket" and turn themselves in for packaging....
You can actually see the stars at night... if you don't mind swatting mosquitoes...
and my favorite:
If your old lady is into getting a little sun outside once in awhile, it can be REAL DANG INTERESTIN'
.... kept me interested in computers. I was starting to learn DOS, bleech, couldn't stand it. Just wasn't (and still really isn't) my bag. I didn't own a computer, but tried out various friends 286s, it was OK, but..... it lacked. Going by a yard sale one day, spotted the 512k for sale, 50 clams. I asked the girl selling it, "well, let's get an extension cord out here, I wanna see this badboy fired up". Yep, I talk like that. Anyway, 5 minutes later I was doing more stuff with a mouse than I did fooling around with DOS, that's for sure. Graduated to an LC, that was nice, still got it, too. got nuts then, now I got all kinza boxes. I think I still got a couple of IIcs, too, have to check in the junker pile. GFs quadra is still a practical machine if ya ask me, it does about anything joe casual user would want to do, inside of surfin, sounds, email, drawing, text stuff. Probably still a lot of 68k apps out there. I never did try to put linux on any of my macs, I should try that sometime.
sometimes I guess you got to let it all hang out, like we used to say in the hipster days. I read this article about MS and i got steamed over it, really. I mean, it's a hearts and minds thing, and working along similar goals for awhile and getting frustrated with it got me hot.
I appreciate what MS did initially, it got computing out there to millions of people. It got computing JOBS out there to millions of people. this was a good thing, same with apple, IBM building the cloneable box, and etc.
Time goes on though, they got sorty dinkus, and now are being professional dinkus. Open source/free is the wave of de future, you can just see it, I saw it several years ago when I realsed a ton of the younger geeks were into it. I know that is what fuels innovations in tech/society/economics/politics, young people with a lot of energy hot rodding whatever they can get their hands on. Any tech you care to name,going back in history, whatever the young people adopt to be interested in is what becomes mainstream when they are the "breadwinner" segment of the population. I may be slow but I ain't dumb enough to miss that.
.. I follow those sites you mention when there's a linkage referencing them someone turns me on to. I've been writing on survival/preparedness topics for a LONG time,it is my expertise, and I used to take consulting work on same. To make it fancy I called it "threat analysis and mitigation". I used an honor system sliding scale fee schedule.
Raised beds, nifty. We just moved to our new place last summer, it's a caretaking position that came with some pretty dismal housing. Had to approach the extremely neglected yard with a chainsaw and bushhog and work from there. No one had lived in this place for over 5 years, it was abandoned and un trimmed deluxe.. Right now we have the major garden area almost finished planting (started with chainsaw, then articulated bushhog, then bulldozer, then fill dirt, now the fine tuning), it has two dozen raised beds constructed with pine logs. It is Mother Earth News quality.., been taking "as we go" pics.. heh The paths between the beds are filled with woodchips we got chipping all winter, and the beds themselves got filled with old well composted cow exhaust we get free for the shoveling from a paddock next door.
I never worry about making a place better, even when I move, I have always done that wherever I have lived, that's the deal, Mr. bigshot in the sky "recommends" that we be good stewards of the land, and it works out good if that principle is followed. Landlors like it too.. No real need to fixate on the ownership part. You get to enjoy the fruits of labor while you are there, this is full compensation enough methinks. Ownership is a big plus of course, but sometimes it isn't possible, like I am in no way in any position to purchase any place, but I get paid (not great but I can stay semi retired and only have to work part time) to live and work here. Tradeoffs.
Also, the real estate bubble will be the next one that pops. I think some *much* better deals are ahead shortly, you might luck out and get your dream place now then be in a position to renegotiate price and terms later from a strong position, if you can keep income semi steady and bankroll now... big hint, precious metals are an outstanding deal now, especially silver. The global demand for physical last year surpassed total mining production... think on that one a scosh......
If you haven't read any of his financials and geopoliticals, try Bob Chapman, google for him, good thinker. Another is Joel Skousen, incredible brain, wrote the two preparedness classics, "the secure home" and "strategic relocation". Hi site I remember top of the head, easy, joelskousen.com
I also recommend a lot of the radio shows carried on gcnlive.com, not so much preparedness, but common sense politics and news that help you consider preparedness topics. In no particular order a few of my favorite shows, the power hour, alex jones, the common sense coalition, a closer look, and on another network, I like Jeff Rense show, such a variety of topics bound to be some that infuriate you, make ya go "hmm", make ya go "hell YA!' , make ya go "huh?" Soup to nuts there, entertaining and informative. that's rense.com
sounds cool where you live, never visitied that area of the country. Have thought about relocating to idaho though, for a variety of reasons, but man, just moving two counties over gets expensive and involves this "work" stuff if you got a lot of gear.... We live in north georgia, last place mountains, but now we are back down in the more farming flatlands. Still pretty though, dogwoods and wild choke cherries and whatnot all blooming now
Computers donated here (a non-profit serving the homeless) are about 7 years old. Most are Windows 95 and less than 40MB RAM.
If a donation is better than 200 MHz, there is a fatal hardware flaw such as a dead motherboard.
There are a lot of ink jet printers.
Very well said, and you're far from alone. I'm in exactly the same situation (working for a charitable organisation refurbishing older computers for those on a low income or emergency need) and just as frustrated by the apparent lack of an easy to use Linux distro that runs on them with any kind of sanity.
Don't be disheartened by Slashdot - it's a great wealth of information, but some of the users as you've already observed are very "leet" here - it's probably not the greatest place to try and find information on a high usability distro.
Best of luck to you, and if you do find anything please try to get an article up or let us know somehow. I too have spent many hours searching, trying distros like Peanut and Vector but haven't found anything that comes close to the ease of use and speed of Win95 on older computers.
I've hit the friend button so I can keen an eye out!
... there appears to be a demand for linux on old machines, but who the heck wants to lurk on a coupla dozen separate forums and newsgroups? We need a one stop discussion place to exchange ideas on this, and perhaps the impetus might get some of the small distro vendors to cooperate with each other. They could be invited either way. Maybe,don't know. I think that the same small footprint distro might be OK for more modern machines too, easy way to maintain a speed and efficiency curve without getting stuck on the upgrade cycle. I see no real need for a distro for most people that can't fit on a single CD. I will tell you one trick I did for myself on my older machine (200 PP), I took a small spare hard drive and made that my swap partition.