Slashdot Mirror
The Rise of Cyber Bullying
santos_douglas writes "The Detroit Free Press has an article detailing the problems schoolchildren now face in the form of online cyber bullying. As if parents didn't already have enough to worry about! Examples include rumor spreading typically via text messaging, threatening emails, invasive pictures taken with camera phones, and the most extreme - creating entire websites to criticize/threaten/harass another student. The article suggests many tips for combating the problem - chief among them being the establishment of specific school policies. I suppose this is another example of an inevitable downside to the interconnected world. Mandatory Google search for your added reading pleasure."
Does Front Page Express still come free with Windows? I hope not...
The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
My modem can beat up your modem!
If I decide to start bullying someone on the ACLU message boards will the ACLU take it down? Wouldn't it violate my speech rights if they do even if it is slander?
I am not taking a position pro or con on the ACLU but it does seem like an interesting situation.
Just as an interesting thing to add, the ACLU does have a student rights forum
some kid had set up a website devoted to hating this teacher, school found out about it and he got excluded. This isn't limited to schools of course, anyone can be the victim of these, but seriously, in real life this would cause you trouble, but on the internet things like this are easily avoided.
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
Wouldn't this be a perfect opportunity for the nerds to get even with the bullies?
Where can I find these invasive pictures?
It sounds goooood!
Nobody that picked on me had the brains to put up a website! In fact, I didn't gain the respect of the jocks until CompSci class when they would ask me to help with their work. Of course, it was all on Commodore PETS (gawd, I feel old...).
has been bullying me with email for years. "Communicate with the customer or else!", and that type of thing.
scapegoat for parents to blame their kids moronic actions on. "OH NO, HES BEEN CYBER BULLIED, AND WE DIDNT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!" Parents need to take responsibility. GTA is not why your kid is a fucking asshole.
i'm totally at a loss for this one. what could suck more!? every embarassing thing i did in 6th-8th grade now only resides in the distant memory of classmates. i'd probably kill myself if it was part of the internet for ever and ever. (hell, i'm still embarassed by dumbass posts i made to usenet in the 90's!)
this is a very interesting side-effect of the 'net. i don't know if this can be remedied, but it does imply that children now have accept the possibility of total transparency in their lives. as hard as it is to swallow, maybe this is how the new culture begins...
i would say i'm glad i'm not her, but this could, in reality, happen to ANYONE. it's just harder to ignore as a child, and it's harder to sue for libel/slander. but still, who to sue?
gah.
the transparent society is gonna suck.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
anyone posting AC here I'm gonna kick your ass, I know who you are and you better have your lunch money with you tomorrow.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
I guess we've found yet another use for micropayments.
I got in trouble for bullying when I told a kid I had a trojan on his computer and had more access to it than he did (I was bsing) :)
My little brother's website (which includes photos and comments sections) was spammed pretty bad by a member of a rival football team.
/24.
My the profanities! I'm thinking of making Apache redirect to goatse.cx the next time someone comes back from the offender's
I know ever since camera phones/pdas came out the first thing that came to my mind is taking a picture of every cute girl that walked by :)
:)
You could look all professional on your pda and secretly snapping pictures of her butt. Sure it's not ethical, but when technology makes it so easy...
no comment
When I was a kid being a computer geek was half the reason one got bullied -- not the method of bullying!
the geeks win!
They're not getting the shit kicked out of them anymore.
Being bullied is getting pushed down a flight of stairs, not getting an anonymous text message about how dopey your shoes look. Sheesh.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
More savy WWW web knowledgable teachers will get a handle on this. It's just a matter of time. How about a parent just instant messaging the teacher ?
Am I the only one who sees a problem with giving schools control over students' lives beyond campus grounds? Why is it that some people are so quick to abdicate control and responsibility of their children to a government beaurocracy? Are today's parents really that bad? Is the government that eager to monitor/regulate every aspect of our lives?
It's time for people to stop blaming the school system and making out kids the taxpayers' problem. If your kid is a fuck-up, be a goddamned parent and put them in their place! Stop automatically run crying to the government!
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
until bullies beat our kids up for Paypal passwords.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Technology only provides a comms tool. What's the difference if kids text eachother or pass notes? Write "Tammy is easy" on the boy's room wall or a web page? If anything the computer based comms makes it easier to trace and clamp down on.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
People are constantly ganging up on people like Vladinator and Hanzosan, driving real life bullying and threats, and driving users away from slashdot.
This sort of thing is being done by little geeky kids probably right? Ok, great, get some REAL bullies to track them down and beat the snot out of them. That'll teach 'em!
Seriously though, things like this just prove that in basically any group, you'll have bullies. Even if you take all the geeks and seperate them, bullies will emerge from the geeks.
my post is a grammatical nightmare
Save Sam and Max!
Or we could just hammer some new rules into their heads and hope the problem will go away. Don't forget to threaten them with punishments, that always works! Sigh...
In grade/middle school some people resented me because of my grades/intelligence. You know what I did when I got picked on? I picked back. A witty remark will often slow a bully quite well. Sure, this isn't a very civilized situation, but who ever said that kids were civilized?
At least, there is no physical harm done in cyber-bullying. There's also no reasonable way to stop it. Shall we enact rules for school children that they never say anything that isn't nice on school time or off? Some of the examples amount to slander, and if they get particularly bad, you could bring a suit, but c'mon there are enough lawsuits now without every school child suing every other child for slander.
I realize that being made fun of isn't very pleasant, but that's something that kids have to deal with. Their parents should help put it in perspective.
http://yetanotherpoliticalrant.blogspot.com
Ye gods, where are you man?! This post-columbine hellmouth in the making needs your incicive reportage!
I wouldn't get mad, I'd get even, Call the DHS and tell them that you've been terrorized. Have them track who these terrorists are send them off. Where do we send them? I don't care as long as they can't pick on me any more. Go ahead disappear those bullies! I won't miss them. Go ahead; make all the mean people go away.
At first read I found this laughable but after a bit of thought I see a rekindling of an already occurring problem. Children will always be children, they will always be immature, they will always be impressionable. The problem herein is parents. I have a 10yo, and 11yo. They do not go on the internet without permission and they conduct themselves as we dictate. No chat rooms, no e-mails from anyone we dont already know. The parents of all there friends form a network with us via e-mail and the children are aware of this. They also respect it understanding the inherent dangers of the internet. Using yahoo parental controls anyone sending them e-mails with profanities or pre flagged words gets reported to us. If the account they are using is linked to a parental account reporting it to the parent is easy. So before someone starts blaming the internet look to the Parents.
You can block instant messages.
All my bullies either insulted me behind my back or to my face where they could beat the crap out of me and take my stuff afterwards. Everyone was either out to get me or unwilling to interfere, even the teachers.
Since when are Google searches mandatory? Did I miss a memo? Oh wait, I know, I bet in was in that memo with the thing about the TPS report cover sheets. Damn, looks like I'll be working this weekend to retrofit my submissions...
Same tune. Different method. Cyber bullying is no different from physical bullying in the sense of how it should be handled. The serious lack of discipline and the whole "My kid would NEVER do that!" attitude shows how poor parenting is a breeding ground for these activities. Last thing a school should do is add MORE policies. But in the end, rules and laws are created to protect us, right? Give me a break.
And to think nerds once held the internet as a private refuge.
I'm sure I'll get modded Troll for this one but...
Is it really a school's responsibility to deal with this?? Would a school be held accountable if signs of a derogatory nature were put up around town?
The school should do something if the site is created on school property, but I don't know if there is anything they should have to do otherwise.
Still, this sucks. I can't begin to say how glad I am that this was not around when i was in school.
Slander laws are sufficient, why recreate the wheel.
Every other undertaking done as a policy shift in schools and in particular children/teens has backfired. Usually accomplishing the undesirable behaviour popularization and eventual acceptance amoung teachers of who should be picked on and who shouldn't. I'm very surprised this kind of stuff is still taken seriously.
So I assume the standard solution to face to face bullies applies? Ignore them and they will go away.
/. crowd was/is subject to taunting, bullying, name calling what have you..we all seemed to come out fine in the end, and I never once had to fight anyone in the school yard, they never showed.
I'm sure most of the
Apple free since 1990!
For one thing, such e-messages are traceable records; bullying in person is insidious because they're usually careful to make sure that no one actually can prove they did it. Parents and school officials can use these to deal with the bullies promptly.
On the other hand, kids need to be taught how to deal with stuff like that, and probably the tabloid press is a good place to use as an example: show them how some celebrities take it too seriously and waste a lot of time an energy fighting it, while others make fun of it and ignore it.
They can also make use of it to find out who their real friends are. People who believe everything they hear without checking at the source aren't much of a friend in the first place.
it's a double edged sword. I personally do not think the schools have any business moderating events that take place outside of school.
..send threatening texts/emails to Federal officials, put up "i'm going to kill the President" diatribes on their websites, use their computers to h4x0r merchants and steal financial info...come on, this is the *perfect* situation to turn their weapons against them.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
The idea of schools having policies about what students can do online (from their homes, not from school) is absurd. Sure, schools don't like it, but there's a much more serious problem of schools imposing jurisdiction outside of school. Schools have responsibility for students when they are on school grounds, participating in school functions, or on school-provided transportation. Other than that, the minute a student steps off school grounds, the school should have no jurisdiction over him.
Granted, if a student posts pictures on a private web site, and those pictures were taken at school in violation of a stated policy, then there could be room for action.
1. I'm sure somewhere a senator/president/judge is figuring out someway to use this to further erode our rights in this country.
;-)
2. Why doesn't the current hate speech laws on the books take care of this sort of thing?
If some kid puts up a site about how I'm a piece of shit and offers to pay anybody 20 dollars to beat me up, don't I have recourse to go to the police?
What's considered a hollow threat and what's considered authentic?
I also stand proudly among the many fellow geeks who were pushed around and told repeatidly that I was going to die either at lunch, in the hall or after school at the hands of [insert random roving band of fucktards].
That's it, my child is going to he homeschooled. I figure the money I save on bulletproof vests and lunch money, I can put towards social interaction classes
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
anybody got links to some actual content? I could use a good laugh!
If a teacher/principal/administrator tries to deal with a cyberbully, s/he will find a knock on their door, courtesy of Ashcroft for the Patriot Act, and/or RIAA/SBA lawyers for violation of the DMCA.
Tattling is Fun *AND* Patriotic!
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
When did bully's figure out how to work a computer?
This, and your comments put the "Star Wars Kid" into perspective. And people said he shouldn't complain because he got a free iPod as a result of being an Internet meme.
What ever happened to being stuffed into a locker?
In sweden almost all school students use a site called www.lunarstorm.se and it's not all that rare that people sign up with an account like "person x sucks" and write all kind of stuff there.
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
Let's face it; bullying will always happen. It happened 100 years ago and will still be happening 100 years from now. The good thing about "cyber-bullying" is that it now gives physically inferior kids the opportunity to turn the tables on the Neanderthals that have been beating them up, stealing their lunch money, and calling them homophobic names.
I believe that the tide is turning in the age-old schoolyard wars. In just a few years, you may see the strong-but-dumb types quaking in fear of the smart-but-diminutive types because they don't want to have them put up a Web site like www.billysmithsucksass.com or something like that. In recent years we have seen that the smaller kids that were picked on in school are the ones that end up succeeding in life. In future years we will see those same kids being the ones who own the playground as well. The lunkheads will be the ones living in fear and I for one feel that they deserve at after being on top so long.
So bring on cyber bullying, it's high time that things were equalized.
Next thing you know, someone is going to get ahold of a video of a kid, who may be slightly overweight, showcasing his Star Wars lightsaber staff skills, and post it all over the net!
... Wait...
It'll spread like wildfire, and the kid will be made fun of, so badly that he has to drop out of school!
Ok, in all seriousness, this actually is a pretty severe problem. Kids can be cruel to other kids, they don't even realize it. I've seen high school students expelled for even mentioning web sites where other highschool girls are rated "hot or not".
It's pretty sad, really.
Tyrion Xavier
..was horrified to discover an entire site had been created to insult and threaten her.
Why should this surprise anyone? 20 years ago this would have been '..was horrified to discover an entire bathroom wall had been created to insult and threaten her'.
Now to invent a cell phone that can give wedgies...
-t
http://unmoldable.com W:"No one of consequence" I:"I must know" W:"Get used to disappointment"
Now accepting paypal in lieu of lunch money beatings.
aka revenge of the nerds. A website where picked-on kid reports the bullying action and the names of the bullies, to include e-mail address, cell phone number, IM nick, address, etc. Sympathic souls would take up the cause to harass the bully in creative ways. I envision it as the slashdot effect for punks...
The google search and all... but I want links to sample pages. This has to be far too entertaining to see!
The article sux0r5, and so does the author, MIKE WENDLAND!
MIKE WENDLAND, I've got embarrassing pictures of you!
And I know where you work, MIKE WENDLAND!
I'll be watching to see if you write any more of your "columns", MIKE WENDLAND!
Yeah, don't you forget it MIKE WENDLAND. I'll be watching every Monday and Friday, and alternate Tuesdays and Thurdays.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
Too bad two people beat your to it. ;)
How come there's no link to these so called "invasive pictures"?
A better solution would be for the schools to teach classes on respect, tolerance and compassion. It's pretty obvious that a lot of parents aren't teaching their kids these important ideas, and it leads to long term societal problems.
The solution is education not legislation. Isn't that what schools are for?
...and release it onto Kazaa, or those picture-rating sites. Sit back and watch what happens.
Blar.
If you guys don't shut up about this, I'm going to kick your ass. Pussy boy.
One time back when I was in High School another guy kept being a jackass to me. I finally got him to shut up when I spoofed an e-mail from him going to another guy confessing that he was gay and wanted to go out with him.
He left me alone after that, either he was too busy getting picked on by everyone else, or I outed him and he had no reason to release pent up agression.
...stole my web server's lunch money.
- - Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand. - -
1) Bully hurts nerd 2) Nerd makes website insulting bully 3) Bully hurts nerd worse
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
"as a high schooler, i'd have rather been slugged in the arm a few dozen times rather than have my shoes made fun of."
This just in - you are a pussy. Film at 11.
Isn't the rise of cyberbullying inevitable, given the rise of cybersluttery? They're each a symptom of testosterone/estrogen poisoning, transcending the distance of physical bodies with the Internet. In fact, this tandem dynamic shows just how much more advanced feminine wiles have become, with masculine wherewithall catching up. And since "on the Internet, no one knows you're a dog", males and females can now wallow in each other's traditional gender traps.
--
make install -not war
Ouch, dude, beef stew all over my keyboard. I think a carrot through my nose. Please don't say things that funny while I'm eating anymore. Thanks.
I pulled all sorts of online stunts on people at school and others; it didn't stop me from getting picked on at school but it did help me develop skills that have earned me thousands of dollars to date. I was good enough that I never got fingered as the culprit.
I'll have to point out that what I did mostly included social engineering with a little hacking.
Ignorance kills, complacency kills, hatred kills, but usually not the ones guilty of them.
I could see this story happening another way.....a school invokes a policy where cruely making fun of another student would result in suspension......then a day later, we would have that little mouth taped up fellow icon detailing a story of how some stupid American school was stealing kids' free speach.
Oh, and I'm sure the Bush admin would get blamed somehow too.....
Kiss my shiny metal ass
What's next? School policies dictating that you have to be "friends" with everyone?
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Although I am suprised the starwars kid hasn't killed himself to end the pain or in the very least, locked himself in a room far away from the dark recesses of the internet to keep away from the scrutiny, I think this article is a tub of bullshit. Mabye in the more social, personal, chatty circles where anyone will believe anything because they are dumasses it may be a problem, but for the rest of us geeks who handle their communication more like TCP/IP rather than humans it isn't much of a problem. Inotherwords, anyone who said "Omg, I didn't expect that" is a complete dumass; where there's a way to communicate there will always be dumasses using it.
Then again, school teachers have never thought it was their responsability to keep bullies from giving someone a verbal beating, but rather, to ensure that the bullies don't end up paralyzed from the neck down by a lucky punch of kick or full of bulletholes in my experience. Which is the whole reason these things happen because if the bully was educated and understood "If you piss jonny off enough, he will inflict great pain on you and may even kill you. Think columbine. Understand?" the kid might think it's a bad idea to tease other kids so badly they think it's a good idea to go on a killing spree. Of course, it may also be a good idea to hold verbal abuse on the level of physical abuse. While much harder to proove, if the annoying asshole who teased you got the crap kicked out of him he'd think twice about opening his big toothy maw, and if he got a detention for starting it he'd be real suprised at the fact the system actually worked. It's only logical that as new technology comes along it'll be abused in the same way.
I'm also kind of annoyed at this title "The rise of cyber bullying". What idiot thought it necissary or even interesting to write this article? Oh yea, after reading the first sentance the light went on in the brain; the same ones who try to make parents afraid of everything from antrhax in the mail to other parents abducting their kids. It's idiots like this that I'd like to take out into the street and beat into a bloody pulp, if they didn't do what they did then our culture wouldn't be so afraid of itself. If television wasn't the constant dispenser of FUD it is then people would let their kids go out on haloween and have fun or it could be like in the 1970's when the real asshole of a teacher got tp'd. If this kind of bullshit didn't exist parents would actually be decent and not have an escape from their responsabilities into the land of idiocy to bring back thoughtful and stupid ideas about parenting some idiot, given an austere of legitimancy by writing for an newspaper that lets them be more comfertable about raising their kids.
So, in my mind this gets filed under the "trivial bullshit" section where I keep most of my useless drivvel; behind steel walls so it doesn't seep into the other stuff by accident.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
to regulate the conduct of a student outside of the school's authority?
Let's say that on a Saturday little Billy posts a website saying that little Susie (who happens to be little Billy's ex girlfriend) is a slut or a tramp, or has bad feminine hygiene.
The school has no right to punish him for this. Is what he did illegal? If what he says happens to be true, no. The police can't punish him for taking advantage of his free speech rights. No school has the right to usurp authority like that.
Maybe a private shcool could get away with something like that. They provide a service and would have the right to refuse that service to anyone they choose.
Had there been a web when I was in high school, I would have probably done my best to let the world know how much of a whore a certain ex girlfriend of mine(cough, cough, Jamie Manning) was. I don't see why things would be any different for the current generation.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
This is easy, if someone speads messages about you, backtrace to the sender. once youve got the email address, you find out who all of his freinds are. next go to goatse.cx, use photoshop and paste the bullys face on the goatse pic, email it to all of his freinds and say hey guys i just wanted to show you my something speacial. than port snif his address and use it to sent a text message to the principal that he/she is bringingt a gun into school to kill them. wala no more cyber bully problem, the bully is thought of as a deranged sexual pervert with violent tendancys and is locked up forever. man oh man oh man i wish they had those kind of devices when i was in school. just think of the kind of, life destroying revenge geeks like us could have done. we would have all the hot chicks ( phone cam blackmail) and all of the jocks and bullies would be in lockup or considered sexual miscreants) you geeks of today have it soooo well. use your powers.
I got kicked out of school for making a webpage about a class mate who had his website here on slashdot once. I don't regret it because I still think it was totally hilarious and that he was a nerd, and that's what's really important to me.
I can't believe it hasn't been solved by now...that was one whole president ago! Here's the old news.
dude, if you want to touch another guy, just ask them.
otherwise, revenge is stupid and it only continues a cycle of violence. it doesn't matter if you don't have the imagination to eliminate the conflict from your life without violence, it's the violence that is lame. However, with a nick like "Lord Frodo" it may be a foregone conclusion that you view the world in terms of battle. it doesn't seem to matter to you that your bully (or his friends) just moved on to the next weakest kid.
When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
Would I rather be beaten and shoved in a locker or made fun of on the internet. I'll take the internet any day. Then I will h4xx0r their boxes and have my uber-l33t revenge! PWNED! I say again, PWNED! So yeah, on the internet, my chances of fighting back go up slightly.
SAILING MISHAP
Yes this is a problem.
Yes it should be taken care of.
We already have some laws against this (harrassment)
But I have a problem, particularly school justice.
It isn't there. The teachers and administration do what they want, students have few rights, and little recourse.
I know of many people who have been suspended or expelled on accusations that I know aren't true.
The principal of my old high school bragged how he was above the law. He could suspend or expell a student if he felt like it. He didn't need any proof of anything.
If you brought it to the school board, they wouldn't act "We stand behind our principals"
We have a law against smoking on school property, he suspended students smoking "in sight of the school".
This is overstepping yoru bounds, and it is wrong.
The schools overstep their bounds, and are the bigger bullies.
I find it interesting that a lot of the replies here deal with "how nerds can get back at the cyberbullies".
Very few, if any, are assuming that the nerds ARE the cyberbullies.
Bullying is about strength. In the real world, that can be physical or political/social. In the internet, that can be technical prowess. He who hacks better, bullies better.
How about the kids could grow some balls and learn to stand up for themselves. If someone makes a website making fun of them - you make a website making fun of them back or even better make fun of how shitty their site looks. If they annoy you on IM - BLOCK THEM. Add their email addy to a few porn sites or post it on your website and get them sent tons of spam.
It's amazing how few parents teach their kids to defend themselves, but if someone hits you - YOU HIT BACK. If you don't you're just going to be fucked over for the rest of your life, or become a cop...
Ave Molech Setting
Seriously, any 'bullies' doing this really do open themselves up to a libel suit (it's libel not slander since it's printed). And though I'm not a parent, if I were and such bullying were happening to my child, I would seriously consider teaching such web-savvy youth that their comments in the public forum carry consquences.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
Just kidding, I actually agree with a lot of what the guy is saying. One bone I have to pick, though, is his conclusion:
I don't buy the whole "electronic tether" theory; all the kid has to do is hit the ignore button, or not view the webpage, or reject the e-mail, etc. to avoid harassment. If all else fails, he/she could just turn off the computer.
I've seen a lot of this in online games. Particularlly NWN, where people just let the situation get to their heads and take it too personal. Older player picking on new players and such. I've also seen it in FPS's on some servers.
The thing kids should remember is it's just a game and you can turn off the bully any time you desier just by logging off or going to a differnt server and not mentioning where you go. Another thing is to hide your online presence if that option is availble. Makes it harder for you to get tracked.
As for IM's, block sender and only allow people you authorize to contact you are great options. Websites are a little more difficult, and emails just add em to your blocked list.
The worst thing is to let them get to you. Keep a cool level head and take the necessary steps to deal with the situation in a way that gives them the least amount of attention possible. They'll get bored and move on in most cases.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Revenge of the nerds!
Seriously that's what I did. I broke a bully's arm after I just had enough of his crap. Funny how popular I became after I did that. Sure I got suspended for a couple days but I really didn't care. You should of heard the asshole crying to his mommy like a little girl too. Man I will always cherish that day.
I used to get picked on in school, and now 15 years later I thiink about it and laugh, but a part of me would Grand Theft Auto those motherfuckers in a second and not shed a tear.
Sure, some may have 'grown up', but how many people that you know change that much from high school? Chances are, they're using the same techniques to bully their wives, children, co-workers, and others.
I don't wonder at school shootings at all.
As someone who is currently in high school, I believe I have a unique perspective on this. This actually did happen, to a few different people at my school. Sure, it was mean thing to do to those people. However, if was the bully, I would have considered it a success. Why? Because it got one hell of a reaction from the people who were made fun of.
The main reason bullying happens is because it gets a rise out of people. Think about it: who are you most likely to bully?...the kid who you know will run crying and sobbing from the room when made fun of, or the kid who will just kind of shrug and laugh along with it.
Today was a perfect example. My ears sort of stick out and turn red when I laugh. I was with a small group of people, and we were all laughing really hard about something...I was on the verge of tears. One of them pointed out that my ears were quite red, and I just kind of laughed along with them about it. I could of gotten all defensive about it, but all it would do is make me look like a complete weirdo, and would make me an easy target for bullies.
I guess my point is, is it seems that most bullying occurs because of someone's differences. For example, the kid who is short, or has a funny voice, or whatever. However, all humans have a unique trait that makes them a little weird. By laughing along with it, you show people that it doesn't affect you. By getting defensive, all you do is make yourself a target.
Obligatory link...
"HB-Rights.org - Student Off-Campus Web Sites and Computer Use"
More discussion/links than you can shake a stick at.
--Quentin
I guess this is bad unless the site is {InsertBigCorporationNameHere]sucks.com
Ironic that this would show up here on Slashdot because this kind of shit happens here all the time. Note: the vast majority of people here don't abuse this site...I have a small minority of abusers in mind as I write this.
/. journal almost like still having MsGeek.Org, the only diff is that someone else has to worry about security issues and assholes. It's too bad... /. used to be fun a few years ago.
Let's face it, guys, cyberbullying happens here all the time...a few twits calling each other queer, indulging in the cyber equivalent of towel-snapping in the locker room, modding people down as "flamebait," "troll," and "overrated" just because you don't agree with them or they rub you the wrong way...the irony is so thick it's not even funny.
MsGeek.Org closed down because of a group of cyberbullies and their extended attack on the site. Many of the people responsible still post here, and often. The crapflooders never have, and never will, provide anything of value on this site...they just shovel out the same crap, the same disgusting gay porn and disguised links to goatse and tubgirl. Someone needs to hit the entire lot of the crapflooders over their collective heads with a clue by four...it stopped being "cute" or "funny" years ago.
I kicked the WIPO Troll off my site and got his account pulled because he posted hardcore gay porn pics to my board using an IE exploit. He came by it rightly. I specifically started MsGeek.Org to give women in technology a "clean, well-lighted" environment to post on a Slashdot-like forum. The crapflooders ruined that, up to and including running exploits against the board software itself. The security issues got to be so much for the good people at Hosting Matters that we mutually decided it wasn't worth it.
I wish that Taco and Hemos and the rest of the founders here had the cojones to pull the accounts of those who have made posting here uncomfortable for many people. I have no problems dealing with it...I'm a 10-year Usenet veteran with the virtual purple hearts to prove it. But I have gotten emails from women who don't read Slashdot because the crap posts are so disturbing to them.
Anyway, this is why I continue to have comments turned off on my journal. I wanted one place where I couldn't be shouted down by a small minority of obnoxious idiots, and I have it. I am sorry that the stupid yahoo.com address always gets filled up with spam and people can't get email to me there. I intend to find another webmail account with a bit more space so you have some way of contacting me. I might even break down and pay Yahoo for a bigger mailbox. Whatever.
I was going to post this anonymously, but screw it...do your worst. Mod it down to Kingdom Come. I don't care anymore. Karma is worthless at this point anyway...I posted for awhile under an identity I used when posting from work, and it took me a grand total of 2 months to go from newbie to the 50 point cap. W00t. That account could have been used to troll like a mofo...instead, I retired it, Blade Runner stylee. I don't even remember the password on the account anymore, fuck it.
I'll chime in every now and again, but right now the main reason I use this site is to blog. My
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
"Jodi found out about the website when a fellow pupil tried to take a photograph of her with a digital camera and said it was for the web. She said: "I was really hurt because I did not know who'd done it. I was just really upset.""
Umm, sounds to me like she has a confession.
I will steal your ride and then run you over with it.
After completing the necessary road scrapage operation to remove your still-warm remains, I will FedEx them to your next of kin for prompt disposal.
You may elect to have the recently deceased Fred Rogers (of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood fame) urinate copiously on your corpse before allowing Rodney Dangerfield to desecrate what little remains of your anal region with various implements of nastification.
OK I hereby nominate the parent as the root of a bunch of "yo mama so fat" jokes.
MORTAR COMBAT!
This was in a movie! Why is this news? Its in both Boston Public & American Pie.
http://threetechguys.info Come, discuss Technology. Got a technology question? Come ask!
As you can guess from me reading slashdot, I wasn't exactly the most popular kid in school. Nevertheless, I have to say that I'd rather see this website stand than be taken down.
Sure, it sucks for you if someone hates you and puts up a web site about it, but you know what... take some flak and ignore the damn thing. It's not like it matters. Learning not to care what random people think about you is an important life lesson, and not one that your parents should deprive you of by suing the pants off someone who calls you names.
"Cyber-bullies have their victims on an electronic tether," Stutzky says. "The kids on the receiving end can't get out of range."
Sure they can. They can just not care.
The single most important advice I ever received as a child about bullies is just ignore them. It's simple advice we all can use.
There is no way school policy can extend into the Internet and the Home. How can the school enforce a policy to ban say websites that make fun of kids and teachers when said website doesn't exist on any of the school's servers and was created in a persons free time? Impossible! (save for libel though.)
With the exception of extreme circumstances (which applies to anything), the best way to deal with bullies is to ignore them. It's not fun making fun of someone if they just don't give a damn. Hell make a website saying how stupid and gay I am. If I don't care, get upset about it or let it affect my life in any way, how long is it going to remain funny to do?
Another middle school girl received text messages about her choice of shoes: "Where did your mommy buy those shoes -- the bargain basement?" Girls tend to be bullied most about their appearance and their choice of clothes, Stutzky notes.
Wow. Words can really hurt. Grow up, just say "Yeah" or simply "No" and move on.
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
...same links and all. Sorry about the off topic-ness, but this sort of thing gets to me.
If you're happy and you know it read my blog
I think the producers of cheaters should start a new show.
BULLIES!!
Parents who have a kid that's being bullied can call up the shows producers. The producer then sends a private investigator with a video camera (and maybe a couple gorilla's in case things go bad) to follow the victum around school and after school with hidden video camera's.
Bully gets caught on tape. Shows producers go to bully's parents and say "Let us use this tape or we give it to the victums parents to SUE YOUR ASS FOR AGGRAVATED ASSAULT!! Bullies parent gladly signs away the rights to avoid civil and possible criminal court time. Bully get's publically humiliated on national TV.
Nothing takes a bully down quicker than public humiliation.
For an interesting take of how such a society might develop, and its effects on all of us, read "The Light of Other Days" by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter:
8 12 576403/qid=1069105228/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-615624 7-0864719?v=glance&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0
Imagine if you could sit at your web browser and look at any place on (or off) Earth, anyone, anywhere, anytime... Privacy becomes an ancient memory and secrets are hard to keep.
"Have your lunch money in my Pay-Pal account by the end of the school day or else I will tell the RIAA that you are downloading copyrighted music.
With all the -1 posts about Rob taking it up the ass from Kathleen, you'd think our gracious hosts here at Slashdot would be able to provide some unique insight on the subject of being cyber-bullied.
Oh no! The INTERWEB is letting people act in the same replusive manners they always have! Lock up your children! But not in the room with the computer!!
Someone posed as me on a BBS in 1985 and said a whole bunch of really nasty things about a girl who I was friends with. It happened one weekend when my parents forced us to go out of town to visit some loser relative. So, the first I knew about it was when a bunch of people wanted to kick my ass and several girls who I had been friends with wouldn't speak to me. I was never even able to convince these people I didn't do it.
It was on an old Apple II BBS. I suppose there are lots of ways someone could have gotten my password.
Anyway, it was pretty awful. I lived in a very small town (we had just moved there) and all the kids that were into computers hated me after that. So, I got into other things, suffered through 4 years of High School, and got the hell outta there.
Sometimes I wonder why anyone would have done such a mean thing to me for no reason. People can be really vicious.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
so what future attacks on the net will be the result of this bullying?
Parents these days (not all but enough of them) do not provide their own kids with the instruction, guidance and a loving home that children need. All the bullies at my school were kids with bad home lives, or poor role models / un-educated parents. As for the kids being teased, instead of waiting for the end of school why not be proactive, use the insults as fuel to get in better shape, or to practice sports so you can join a sports team and fit in better. If you don't want to play sports or get in shape, find something else to do with another group from the school. I think the best thing a teased kid can do with the insults and/or threats is use them as fuel.
...
Fuel to get better at
Those violent gun episodes in schools where a bullied kid attacks another student is not only the fault of the bully but the fault of the victum and his parents. The victum for failing to think of the consiquences and for failing to turn the negative situation into positive. The parents fault for failing to notice the childs obvious problems and as well they're inability to instill values and morals into their own childs character. The other half of the problem relies on the bully and his/her parents. Where are they? if the school or other parents have contacted them why havn't they resolved this situation, and morally the bully has to understand what bully'ing is like... maybe his parents should bully him for a day and teach him a lesson? open his eyes? I'm not sure? but I think at least 60% of the blaim is on the parents (both victum and agressor) and the rest lay on the children.
No, this is
One can imagine school kids today afraid to use public restrooms or lockerrooms, wary of legitimate picture-taking (like for the yearbook), and never giving out phone numbers, or email addresses, or IM id's, constantly googling their own names looking for threats or hate-sites about them.
It is very disheartening. But, with the rise of technology, society must learn to adapt. And it will, by closing in on itself. But, I agree with many posters earlier statement regarding parental control.
What this really means is we have to learn to be better parents and teach others how to be better parents, at a time when parenting skills are seemingly at an all-time low.
Before the blogs, etc., there was a clear delineation between personal thoughts and public thoughts. Things you wrote down in a journal weren't meant for public consumption.
But now you can write something in a blog, broadcasting it essentially to the whole freakin' world, and say, "These were my private thoughts! I feel so violated!" That sends my BS meter right off the scale.
Now, I'm the first to say schools should not censor off-campus speech. That just seems like a given to me. It's wrong. At the same time, I say, use some common sense. Remember, when you're writing in a blog, you're talking to the entire world. Don't say anything you don't want everyone to hear. It will be archived and it will come back to haunt you. Welcome to the real world.
--
bachiatari na torisetsu o yome!
don't look here, look over there. there's nothing happening here.
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
It seems that you belive that by stopping your child from seeing profianities in their typed form is protecting them. As if they don't hear worse at school.
And I dissagree with your comments, that children should be taught not to talk to unknown people online. I believe that the ability to converse with people they have never met, and most likely will never meet, is one of the most important things your child can be taught.
Thanks to the Internet, your child can make acquaintances with people from a multitude of countries, beliefs, and religions. They can learn about cultures, differences between societies, and problems or struggles people experience in everyday life. And they can do this safely.
There are still people who would rather deny their child communication with "online strangers" than educate their child about doing so responsibly. There are still parents who know so little about the Internet that they will accept the miconception that all "chat rooms" are undeground grooming places for paedophiles. Five minutes of guidance is enough to make your child understand that joining #12yroldz on AOL and repeatedly asking "wanna cyber?" is a bad idea.
The key is making your child *understand* that people hidden behind a chat room can lie. Simple as that. They need to be taught to keep their online acquaintances seperate from the real world. Make them understand that they WILL meet people who will try to harm them. With a little education, the Internet becomes a "virtual sandbox". Your child will be exposed to people - both good and bad, in a controlled and safe enviroment. There is no better way to teach your child about human nature.
I say this from personal experience. I am presently 18. During my 'childhood' I had always enjoyed the freedom of unrestricted online communication. I belive the results from this are only positive. I have learned so much, from so many...
My lifetime passion has always been programming. While in the 'real world', very few of the people around me shared this interest, online I was able to find a haven. I was able to interact with hundreds of thousands of people who not only shared my interests, but were willing to share their knowledge. I learnt to share my knowlede in return. I could collaborate on projects with people I had never met. It didn't matter that I was 12, noone knew or cared. My age was irrelevant. It was an environment in which skin color, gender, age, and nationallity are all irrelevant. A place where knowledge, contribution, and respect are honoured.
This has changed my approach in the real world. In a society where racism and religious discrimination are commonplace, children learn the negative attitudes from their peers. Having made contacts in practically every country, I didn't give in to the temptation to tag along. I actually knew the societies and people which others would criticise for no other reason than "because they're different".
I don't believe that your child will have their mind warped by pornography or bad language on the internet. If you believe they won't be exposed to these two 'evils' at their schools, you have perhaps lost contact with reality. The difference is that in the online world, attacking people with profanities results in rejection from a community, rather than cheap support from immature peers. The "u wanna fuck?" messages are frowned upon - "I'm sorry, I'd rather not sustain a sexual relationship over a 56k modem link".
I learnt, from first-hand experience, that trust takes years to build, and seconds to break. I learned to respect others, not because it was 'forbidden' to be disrespectful, but because mutual respect is what created the greatest acheivements and communities. I learned how to act when in a position of power, how to diminish rather than fuel dissagreements. Online communities, be they forums, IRC channels, or simply e-mail, have one thing in common; they are environments in which decisions aren't made with fists or knives, but via wit, intellect, and understanding. If children weren't sheided from this "for their own protection", they would grow to become better people.
A couple things to think about in regard to 'children' in schools and 'bullying'.
Children are
Worse, it's up to the victim's parents whether or not to act... leaving those with the worst homelives the most vulnerable... either to bullying or being bullied.
IMHO, if you can legally require the separation of the bully from the victim, you may have really helped one kid.
I also think the comment in the article that "... while these comments may seem silly to people who have matured, they are very devastating to the young people on the receiving end..." ignores the above reality.
It's tough to draw analogies to adult life, but what if you were legally required to show up for work? What if somebody spread a similarly scandalous rumour about you at work? Oh... let's see... while kids might think it cool to grab a peer's breasts, the reverse might just work for adults. So, your coworker starts telling people that you grabbed her breasts, and you're making passes at her all the time. So your coworkers begin to shun you. You can't quit... you're legally required to be there. You can't call the police, they won't do anything because this is just a little bit of workplace bullying. Now your boss... who happens to be 150% of your height, twice your strength and twice your weight, might just believe the person spreading the scandal, so it will be your word against theirs.
Your friends at work no longer want to be seen with you, because anyone can fall victim to such harassment... so you become ostracised... Some even join in to dispel rumours that they too might be perverts. Few people really believe the rumours, but they know you're not a safe person to be around because you... and anyone you're around is a target.
Seeing that you have no allies, people begin to pick on you, steal your office supplies, scratch your car, slash your tires.
So you keep going to work, despite all this, because you're legally forced to.
Now we're getting close except: kids don't get paid, have little control over their homelife and they've never known anything else.
Well, you can always fight back by showing up to school with a a trenchcoat and some semi automatic rifles and just take out the people that are bothering you....oh wait.
Ultimately it's the child that has to deal with the problem. Once he starts standing up for himself, bullies quickly lose interest and look for weaker prey. The most useful thing a parent can do for his child is to teach him to fight back at all costs. Attempting any other solution would be useless.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
is reading that post, then reading your sig.
looks like they'll say almost anything to get in the funnIE paypers now:
Featured Article Sponsored by IBM
Gates Unveils Junk E-Mail Software
Associated Press
Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates has announced new junk e-mail filtering technology called SmartScreen at his keynote address at the annual Comdex trade show in Las Vegas...
must be a joke/another MiStake?
Yeah, I use it to make my Slashdot posts.
"If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
None of the suggestions for schools (or parents) involve actually doling out punishments to the bullies. Very typical to tell the victim to "ignore it" or "chin up" while not punishing the bully.
If schools would actually punish bullies (for actions committed on school grounds or using school equipment), it would help greatly. And it would reduce the need for victims to need to learn to fight back in self defense. (Self-defense is seen as a negative by many of the same authorities that refuse to punish the offenders--ref. the giant subthread above on the good and bad of self defense.)
In 7th-grade (1991) I had to fight tooth and nail to get two bullies suspended for one day each. It involved my parents, their parents, 2-3 teachers, and 2-3 principals. That was a slap on the wrist punishment, but it kept those two away from me permanently.
We could actually deter bullies if real punishments (long suspensions resulting in class failure, expulsions, small claims judgements for out-of-school offenses) were doled out for serious offenses.
The very last thing a teenage girl needs, is for the bullying webpage to let the world know that she grew a pair.
Web pages, phone calls, some IMs and chat rooms leave a trail to identify the culprit. Its harder to be truely anonymous online.
Isn't this the offense? Posting lies and threats against another person in written form is illegal, and can be prosecuted.
I'm a bit confused why there hasn't been any mention of legal action against these kids if, in fact, they are posting libelous content. I'm sure that the threat of legal action would do more to deter this type of behavior than any school policies could.
Any lawyers care to comment? Non-lawyers?
Just as I would imagine was the _alot_ of guys here, I too got picked on when I was in Junior High. For years..Got randomly spit on, punched, kicked, you name it..by a group of about 3 or 4 of em, all older than me. It was a real blast, lemmie tell ya.
Then one day, I decided I about had enough, picked up a desk, and sent it crashing straight down ontop of one of them. Crushed his larynx. He couldn't talk for months, and even when he regained his speech, he sounded like Popeye. Karma works in mysterious ways.
Anyway, back to the story. I got taken by no less than three teachers down to the Principal's office, where I was given a "5 day out-of-school suspension".. One notch below formal expulsion back in those days. Interestingly, my folks backed me up, and essentially told the school to fuck off, since I had no prior record of doing anything even remotely like that, the school knew this kid was a bully, and never bothered to do anything about him. Bottom line, I was back in school within a day...And even more interestingly, I never had a problem with any of the other bullies after that. Didn't hear a single peep.
Thats not to say I advocate violence. I don't. But if you're dealing with what amounts to a juvenille sociopath who's parents can't control him, and a school who won't protect your kid, then that's what you have to do.
I really, really don't understand how we, as a culture, arrived at the idea that we should expect our kids to "just ignore them", or "talk it out" with a bully. That has never, and will never solve anything. At the end of the day, you have a God-given right to defend yourself and your dignity. End of story.
I'm going to be a father myself, pretty soon..And if theres anything i'd want my kid to learn from my experience, it would be that if ever gets bullied, and decides to beat the snot out of some kid to reclaim a portion of his dignity, Mom & Dad will back him up on it. Ultimately, he has to learn how to handle confrontations in life. Somewhere along the line, they're going to have to learn what "nobody walks all over you without your permission" means.
It just seems my whole generation was brought up to think that "ball your fist up and teach the asshole a lesson" isn't an option.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
I was about 16 then, trying in vain to sound like a lawyer. Anyway those kids posted pictures a blurred out scanned picture of me from the yearbook, and posted some false information about me, and went to an online game I played and spread the link.. slight damage was done, but whatever, after I sent that email the site was gone within 24 hours, and they replied saying that had been taken care of.
Then again, if those kids knew how to set up a personal server.... DDoS time.
Please direct all bug reports to
It will be the geeks that steriotypically pick on the Jocks Mwahahaha
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I remember back in the 80s, "terrorist" meant "someone who hijacks a plane with guns and bomb threats" or "someone who straps explosives on and blows self up in a crowd" or "sets up a (toxic gas) bomb in a crowded place". It roughly equated to "criminal mad with anger or self-righteousness" to me.
terrorize, v
1: coerce by violence or with threats
2: fill with terror; frighten greatly [syn: terrify]
Somehow I doubt threatening to tell everyone your shirt looks dorky qualifies. Pray you never learn what terror really feels like.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
Anyone else have some regrets about going to college? Maybe the bullies and dropouts outsmarted the rest of us. My teachers always told us that college is practically the sole path to success. I bought into it for better or worse.
I am a college student in Florida. I feel both optimistic and pessimistic simulataneously. I am studying Electrical Engineering, and hope to make 45-50k upon graduation. Good money, no doubt about it. But had I spent the last 3 years getting experience in real estate, I could be making 45 by now, and who knows what in the next few years! Meaning I have to make up 60k in lost potetial to make sure my engineering career is "worth it". Not to mention the stress engineering students have to go through (25 hours a week of studying, about 80 a week when lots of tests come). Plus, I don't get the satisfaction of working for myself or the benefits of private practice (such as tax writeoffs)
Unfortunately, I will never be rich if my sole source of income is as an EE. Unfortunately, if I decide to get into a more entrepreneurial occupation after graduation (which is what my parents want me to do) I have lost 4 years of my life. All that is not including the debt I'll rack up while getting this degree!
Moreover after graduation, I will likely be salaried meaning you get no overtime and whats more, less time to pursue money making ventures (fixing up houses, becoming a landlord, starting a side business etc)
Fortunately, I am still young. Fortunately, I live in a country of opportunity where I can still build wealth and use my degree as a jump start. Fortunately, I have more of a guarantee making a good salary in an ee occupation than going it alone.
Who would think that being optimistic and pessimistic at the same time was even possible!
--Joey
Get it?
Heck, if the kid wants to get rid of the website, they should put a link to it on /. I'd give the servers ten minutes.
"By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." - George Carlin
Wouldn't it violate my speech rights if they do even if it is slander?
No, you don't have "speech rights" on somebody's messageboard.
Let the bullies step on up cyber-style.
I couldn't get away from them during gym class....but now they are fighting on my turf!
And I know my network kung-fu is better than theirs. Bring the noise.
But seriously, kids just gotta deal. Bullied on the net, bullied in class, it doesn't matter. There will always be bullies; and it is a right of passage for us nerdy types.
Now, I guess we should teach our kids how to run tracerts, do ping attacks on the bully's IP, or sneak a little trojan into the ole IM...
Kid: "Hey, dad, Billy called me a faggot."
Dad: "What did you do?"
Kid: "I deleted Billy's term paper from his hard drive."
Dad: "That's my kid!" (proudly)
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
For example, how about getting rid of this BS that a student can have a cell phone in the school. I'm sorry, there is no reason for a student in high school or younger to have a cell phone with them during class or lunch (it is fine if the kid has it out in their car, but inside the building...no reason for it). This would eliminate kids taking pictures of each other in compromising times like when using the bathroom. (To someone who might say, "Well the kid will hide it"...trust me, kids don't hide things as well as they think. Most of them would probably forgetfully bust it out in places where it could be viewed by a teacher or administrator)
The second biggest problem that needs to be remedied is to teach them to respect adults! So many people fail to realize that many students today (especially in high school) refuse to respect their teachers at all unless the principal is around. If we can get these students to realize that they need to grow up and make something of themselves (something that doesn't involve acting like a damn reject of society), that may help the situation.
The bullies in my school happened to be the jock/prep/student government clique. They put together a 10 year reunion website to organize and collect contact info. Unfortunately the guy who put it up had no clue how to run a site. After snagging all of the contact info for spam fodder I simply redirected pages to a google cache article of a news story on the girl who drugged a teacher our senior year.
After they "fixed" that and chastised the "hacker" for being childish (which I fully admit I was) I then had all traffic redirected to goatse.cx. Yum. Let that imagine burn in your mind forever, chums.
Speak truth to power.
You all suck nener nener nener! :p
I even made a webpage to show my how much you suck!
Your Gay!
me karma am bad
"We could actually deter bullies if real punishments (long suspensions resulting in class failure, expulsions, small claims judgements for out-of-school offenses) were doled out for serious offenses."
Incarceration in a juvenile correctional facility for assault and battery charges comes to my mind before any of your ideas do.
Seriously, good point. You're spot-on.
You have an opportunity to file a criminal complaint against those who exploited the security of your system in order to wrongfully damage your property or service. This was very likely a federal felony and deserves an investigation with both local police and the FBI. In addition you also have grounds for a civil suit; should you gain a criminal conviction winning a civil suit is almost assured. I hope you saved your logs.
Want to teach those assholes a lesson? Let them explain their behavior to the police, district attorney, and finally - a judge.
Best,
--Maynard
That reminds me of a time in High School, I'll spare the story but in short, in involved a dynamicly created page using the subdomain, example:
http://you.isgay.com/
Where 'you' could be anything like
http://john.doe.isgay.com/
Very amusing to the techno-savvy. Eventually the creator got so many emails he made it more obvious it was a trick.
I KNEW there was a legal case here! FInally I can get you linux guru's to answer my questions promptly and politely in IRC without getting snubbed and ignored.
I hear he has a great solution for folks like you.
It's a lot easier to change your E-mail address or turn off your instant messenger programs than it is to hide on the playground. Sure, bullying is a big problem, but I don't think cyber-bullying is as big of a deal as the media wants to make it seem.
>But I have gotten emails from women who don't >read Slashdot because the crap posts are so >disturbing to them.
/. doesnt strike me any different than HBO...
You mean Goatse?
yeah, were all scarred but I read a good deal at work and Ive never noticed anything particularly offensive to women. there is a lot of childish humour but its not like the words tw*t,c*unt are a mainstay here.
Im sure we all have our different levels of 'offensive', every group does but
But then again there are those that get offended at the word penis, so many its good to have a Cybersitter for those people or at least someone to sit with them while theyre surfing the net.
zeke
Student thought process: Hmm. Some loser kids in Colorado got picked on a lot, then went out and gunned down their school. We have loser kids in this very school who remind me of them.
Conclusion: Let's go pick on them. Purely as a self-defense measure, of course.
Weird, sad times.
Now that bullying has gone high tech, we have to adapt with the times. Here's the formula, kids.
Step 1: Write a web page, explaining what a complete loser you are. Mock your shoes, your clothes, your haircut, your complexion, your hygiene, and question your own sexual orientation.
Step 2: Point yourself out as a potential threat to other students, explaining how you need to be beaten down in the name of patriotism and non-loserhood.
Step 3: Sign the page $BULLY_NAME.
Step 4: Throw in spelling/punctuation/grammatical errors.
Step 5: Hack $BULLY_NAME's site, and upload. Send yourself a profanity-laced e-mail with a URL.
Step 6: Forward message to principal and teacher.
>> Beat the bullies senseless two or three times, and guess what, they leave you alone.
Did you succeed? Are you alone now?
Come on. I read through the whole article and didn't see a single thing that didn't happen when I went to school, pre-Internet. Or, for that matter, I didn't read anything that I didn't hear from my parents' stories about when they went to school.
The article spent four fifths of its copy trying to make out that teasing and gossip-spreading were something novel and Internet-age. Yeah, sure. Before text-messages, kids just had no way of insulting or passing information to each other. Certainly, no schoolgirl has ever been teased about her clothes, or boy about his sexuality, before the age of the Dark, Nasty Internet.
Children are vicious. They learn the need to establish a social hierarchy long before they learn empathy. Paul Graham covers this phenomenon quite effectively in one of his essays.
Sure, the "instant-on" thing is new, but really, kids will do exactly what adults do when they want to get away from unwanted IMs: go invisible, or register a second screen-name that only their friends know.
I'm not saying it's not a problem, but it's not a new problem. I abhor lazy journalism that finds sensationalism in dressing up something as old as time (pornography, bullying, copying music) in Internet clothes, just because it's easier to scare people that way.
Charles Miller
The more I learn about the Internet, the more amazed I am that it works at all.
Had problems of this sort. Apparently some guy from school whom she shot down devoted a section of his blog to badmouthing her. I don't know what happened in the end, if she got him to take down the ugly blog site or if it just faded into antiquity.
Alternative to that, I've always been amusing by sending simpleminded people http://firstname.lastname.isgay.com, which prints out amusing articles about the person in the URL header.
The main issue is self-confidence. Most kids and many younger adults just don't have the self-confidence to stand up for themselves; be it physical or verbal, our even by complete indifference. You also have to understand that many of these bullies are dangling from the finest thread of self-confidence imaginable. All it takes sometimes is one line in the sand to shatter that confidence and gain your peace.
I recall my stands, and I was generaly left alone after that.
-Chris
--an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
I would like to say that this will be the best thing ever to happen to geeks. Why? Well, when I was a kid bullys beat me up and stuff. God help the bully who would have tried to go techy on my ass!!! My children will grow up in a world where bullys get their websites DDOSed etc...
I can see it now (Bully site)"TImmy is gay"
E-Mail to Bully site I admin from Timmy "I own your website and I got your moms credit card. If you do not leave me alone I will buy lots of gay porn under your name with her card. Also, look at your site. Do you like that picture I think it does you justice and Elton John never looked so young...I really like the Gimp it works well. Would you like to call truce?
I was one of those kids that tormented kids psychologically. I don't know what it was, but I would just smell weakness and pounce on it. I wasn't a jock or one of the cool kids, I was one of the smart kids but viciously cruel.
I wasn't really picked on very much, but I could hold my own against the jocks when it came to making fun of someone. It was a tense relationship, kind of like what you would see in the African safari when lions are amongst the gazelle but everyone was on guard.
I would go out of my way to make some kids feel really stupid. "You're so ugly. Why do you even bother? You should kill yourself." I could single out the weakest of the weak and just pound and pound on them verbally.
I even drove one girl out of my school because I kept on harrassing her about how ugly she was.
Of course, I'm not proud of what I did when I was a kid.
But if you want to learn something from the bully's perspective here's what I'm going to do to protect my kid from bullies:
1) Have your kids socialize and make friends. This is the biggest thing that protects them from bullies. Raising a loner kid will compound the problem because it makes them an easy target. Make sure these friends are the good kinds that will watch each other's back, not the bad kinds. My 3 closest friends I've known since age 5 and we have been best friends for the past 30 years.
2) They are going to learn karate from the age of 4. First of all, it gives the kid self-confidence. Bullies can smell weakness a mile away and even I can't explain why I want to crush weakness, but I do. If you have self-confidence, they know to not mess around. Plus, being able to kick ass comes in handy. If my kid were ever harrassed to an extreme, I would gladly give them the okay to go kick their bully's ass. No if-ands-or-buts. A good ass-kicking will generally shut-up most kids. Doing this at an early age will not be taken as seriously, and if they can establish a reputation for being someone not to fuck around with, then it will last throughout high school.
3) If they get harrassed, teach them how to harrass back. Fight fire with fire. A victim that will fight back is a less desirable victim that one who will just do nothing and take it. Bullies will always go for the easiest target, just like in the animal kingdom. Why go for the bigger, stronger prey when you can go for the weakest. Making sure your kid isn't the weakest will go a long way to ensuring a less-traumatic high school experience.
To all you losers that say, "Ignore them and the problem will go away", this is 100% absolutely wrong. Like I said, you have to make sure your kid doesn't reek weakness. I loved picking on kids that didn't say anything or didn't fight back. "What, are you so dumb you can't even say anything? What a retard! Why don't you just kill yourself if you're so stupid you can even speak." It's so easy and so gratifying for a bully to attack some loser that doesn't fight back.
You must MUST fight back, either intellectually or physically. Remember, it's exactly like the animal kingdom and it's just kids trying to establish who is the alpha male or female.
From my own high school experience, chick fights were nasty. Men went into fights in high school looking to knock the other guy down in front of his friends more than anything else-- fighting wasn't rampant, but it was far from unheard of. People got bloody, maybe a broken nose here or there, but overall no debilitating injuries. By the time a couple girls got pissed enough to fight, though, they were going for the jugular. Seriously, it's scary.
This should be modded better than that.
Wow im a cyber bully and didn't even know it, Ive been posting a web blog with my coworker Camerons shortcomings for the last month. cammsav.blogspot.com I even have t-shirts available thanks to cafepress.com
Trust me, I took hits from both ends of the spectrum. The only thing worse than being the guy harrassed by other guys is when you're also demeaned by the females. Of course, things suddenly improved near the end of high school... sometimes all it takes is a change in environment. I don't know exactly what brought upon the change, except for remarks such as "you know, you're almost cool when you're really drunk," indicated I must have done something pretty out-of-character. A little self-confidence now and I'm capable of dealing with either gender, though sometimes still a little internally squeemish when around the jock-types.
Ah yes, I remember the good old days when all that happened was the bullies pushing you down slopes, beating you up, humiliating you or tripped you in the cafeteria.
I got a BS in Computer Engineering from Univ of Florida. No regrets here, especially since I like my job (software developer). Though, good luck getting a job after graduation. The market is tough even for an EE. Try to get some work experience before you graduate (internship or co-op, etc). Also, try to do something really badass for your senior project. It'll look really good on your resume and during interviews. I know an EE who got hired with a great offer because his senior project really kicked ass.
Anyways, I'm really glad I got a degree. Though that's probably because I wouldn't have any other career options other than computers. I know a lot of people without degrees who have a lot of experience in the computer field, but they get denied every time because of the lack of college degree.
Anyways, despite the tech industry hurting, and all the offshoring (even EE's), having an EE or CEN, or CEE degree (or any engineering degree) is pretty kickass. It's the people with English degrees and other liberal arts degrees that I feel bad for. Every one of my friends who went that route are suffering right now, they are all stuck in their careers. Though the few that went on to grad school are probably going to do alright, but they're just now finishing it (while I've been working for 2-3 years).
Money is all about barriers to entry. Literally anyone can be a real-estate agent, which means competition will include the trophy-wife who doesn't need to make a dime, might even be doing it for a hobby and losing money at it. Unless you have something that trumps 99% of the other agents, you won't make much money in that market.
EE has a pretty high barrier to entry, thus the relatively high starting salaries. Work it for a couple of years, clear out all debts, put a chunk in the bank for fallback, get good at what you do and then start looking for opportunities. I guarantee you that the ratio of EE millionaires to all EEs is orders of magnitude higher than the ratio of real estate agent millionaires to all real estate agents.
Plus, you might benefit from reading the book, "the millionaire next door."
When these boys grow up, they'll probably turn into these guys who blackmail companies into paying "protection money" to avoid getting DOSed. The advent of digital communication has made all kinds of behaviors more anonymous, including these two. Now you don't even have to confront your victim personally. If the addage that "bullies are the real cowards" is true, then they now have the opportunity to be even more cowardly still.
People are so scared of the geeks because of stupid sh!t like columbine (perpetrated by kids who weren't even very intelligent) that this is exactly what will happen, with the nerd getting slammed by anti-terrorism laws...
The old easterners had a lot to say about that.
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Powerful men are well advised not to use violence,
For violence has a habit of returning;
Thorns and weeds grow wherever an army goes,
And lean years follow a great war.
A general is well advised
To achieve nothing more than his orders:
Not to take advantage of his victory.
Nor to glory, boast or pride himself;
To do what is dictated by necessity,
Not by choice.
For even the strongest force will weaken with time,
And then its violence will return, and kill it.
---------
I like that they don't say "violence is always bad," just that it's better to do only what's necessary. More to the point in your second paragraph:
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There is nothing more yielding than water,
yet when acting on the solid and strong,
its gentleness and fluidity
have no equal in any thing.
The weak can overcome the strong,
and the supple overcome the hard.
Although this is known far and wide,
few put it into practice in their lives.
Although seemingly paradoxical,
the person who takes upon himself,
the people's humiliation,
is fit to rule;
and he is fit to lead,
who takes the country's disasters upon himself.
--------
There are lots of others.
Looking at the submission (disclaimer, I didn't RTFA), you'd think this was prime JonKatz material! I could see a Hellmouth-ism coming from this one.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
You mean this isn't about the DMCA?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Teach me my 6 subjects, and stay the fuck out of my life. What I or any other students do outside of school is none of their business. How should bullying, partying, or any other activites outside of school be their concern? Unless you do something IN THE BUILDING, I don't see how the school should be involved. But that's how the man holds you down, I guess...
I once made a web site devoted to making fun of my hated junior high school nemesis. This was like 8 years ago. Is cyber bullying finally catching up to my middle school shenannigans?
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
The stonger will always bully the weaker. People who are physically stronger and people who have a big mouth will always be the boss over those who don't. Age does not matter. Teach your children to be strong, not just smart and nice. 'Weak guys' overall have less self esteem and less power in social life, and they get less girls ;)
:) It really helped. I really gave me a confidence boost too. When you look and feel strong and healthy, people will see you as strong and healthy. You can even bully them! :)
I was bullied too, for years, when I was younger, because I was short and smart and not very cool. I was not a computer nerd yet btw, I was just a general nerd (no money for computers). I took martial arts classes, later I started lifted weights and I also started swimming. I was getting good at playing the guitar, which also made me more cool
It's a fact of life. Like survival of the fittest. So teach your children to be strong!
From the perspective of a victim, your comment is the equivalent of blaming the woman for getting raped. Yes, it's that bad.
I made a PHP/MySQL library that prevents SQL injection & makes coding easier!
Learning self-defence Vs offence is not a bad trait. Yes, you don't want your kids to become the next GB and invade some foreign country, but neither would you want them to sit around and let themselves be abused of their lives (be the ones invaded). The fact of life is, there are people of all ages who will try to abuse you. Some on an emotional level, some physical, some on a profession, and some on all. You have to teach your kids to defend themselves on all levels.
Mediation doesn't always work, and some people just don't learn... it's really that they're too simple to understand anything but fists, which is why they learn quick when they get their own asses kicked.
Teach your kids that violence isn't a good way of dealing with things, teach them to try alternatives, but for godsake also teach them that if nothing else works, they have a right to defend themselves, and physically if possible and/or probable.
It's not about teaching your kids that violence is the best route, it's about teaching them what is appropriate when, and not letting them be punching bags.
Oh, and for the record, as a former punching-bag in high-school, I don't advocate violence by default, but grinding an aggressor's head into the snow and putting a few others in headlocks did give me a lot of space from physical abuse afterwards (you can do a lot to show your strength without actually hitting somebody).
From the article we can read about "cyber"-bullying. Reading the most prominent sidebar we can also read "For children: Do not respond to cyber-bullying messages.".
Perhaps someone would care to enlighten me here? What the hell is a "cyber-bullying messages"?
It might be that I'm just a complete moron and completely uninformed, but do these people even know what "cyber" is? I'd say they don't and just use it as a "cool word" to get attention.
I'd want a law that prohibits morons to speak before they've gotten killed to spare the world from their stupidity. I'd guess that makes sense in the same way...
(Ranier Wolfcastle voice)
And the geeks shall inherit the earth
Ok, explain to me how you can just receive physical pain from a bully without any pstchological pain. The whole point of them hurting you is psychological. They are demonstraiting that you are so weak and pathetic that you don't even control your own body. That's why bullies particulary enjoy things like grabbing your arm and forcing you to punch your own face while saying "quit hitting yourself", or pinning your arms to the ground under thier legs and using one finger to poke you in the chest repeatedly. It's ALL psychological, the physical aspects are just to prove their assertions of your inferiority in a way that you can't deny or ignore.
Cameras on cell phones can be used while hidden in locker rooms to take ultimately emberassing and highly illegal images.
I am sure some creeps have thought of this tactic before. I remember our locker room in Jr high was a big room with lockers on the outside. The shower room was seperate and about 10 to 50 feet walk depending on where your locker was. Plenty of space for somone to snap pictures with a cell phone and get in real trouble.
jason
chief among them being the establishment of specific school policies
Nothing makes kids (or adults) behave better like more rules : /
given his last name.
Let's face it, guys, cyberbullying happens here all the time...a few twits calling each other queer, indulging in the cyber equivalent of towel-snapping in the locker room, modding people down as "flamebait," "troll," and "overrated" just because you don't agree with them or they rub you the wrong way...
Porn & obscene insults are bullying. Being modded down (to +1 or +2) is not - it's not even unfair. If you read at +3, you will never see any of the former. You will, however, see plenty of worthless posts. You know, the posts that you modded up just because you agreed with them, or they rubbed you the right way, regardless of how poorly they expressed their thoughts. People who mod overrated posts as "overrated" are doing valuable work, as valuable as other mods.
There are plenty of posts that are completely unobjectionable yet are fairly rated at +1: by definition, the vast majority.
"The good reader is a rarer swan than the good writer."
Oh Great, cyber bullying? I can picture that little Billy is being harrassed:
U R teh ghey. U suXX0rz 4t Quake.
If this is the kind of crap going on they deserve it. Turn off the computer already!!!
Seriously...the way to deal with a bully is to give back with more force than you received. If you are unable to match the bully with your bare hands, use tools. We aren't monkeys.
Blar.
I'm really surprised no one commented on this (at least that I could find, maybe they got modded down). This is definitely an example that is well beyond bullying. We'll never know for sure, but if the girl hadn't inadvertantly found out about the site, and the school officials (and others) alerted, she might be dead by now.
The article is slim on details, but I would hope some charges were filed against the site's creator. Before anyone starts yelling about they're just kids, we're talking 15yos here, and they certainly know that death is permanent. They should be held accountable.
with all due respect, the childrens mom worked in social services for many years dealing with abused children. my friend if you had any idea the lenths a pedifile will go to, to talk to and get to know your minor yo uwould be surprised. Me well i've been using the net since the days or prodigy bulliten boards. I know the trash that is out there. In this case I am not being nieve i'm being knowledgable. If I wont allow my children to tal to strangers on the street how is the internet any differnt.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I'm thinking: me, you, and a scientifically-proven magic petrification ray, you hot little bitch!
We know you're not alone... you're occupied. Call it success if you will.
In support of OP and because time just took my last two modpoints, he's spot on.
If you're going to teach your kid one thing, teach them empathy.
OP made a few excellent points, give him some mod.
Really good bullies will not just make fun of you. They will alienate you. They won't just stop at one comment. They will harrass you constantly. You can ignore them all you want, but all the relentless, unwanted attention will drive your friends away from you because they don't want to get bullied as well.
Imagine day-after-day of being made fun of over and over again. Every single action is constantly scrutinized for any single mistake and blown out of proportion. Imagine not having too many friends because they don't want to get bullied along with you. After a while, it gets really lonely. It will psychologically affect you, especially when you are a kid.
I was a bully in elementary school, and I know... breaking people was one of my specialties and my favorite things. It's not something I'm proud of now, but I would find something to get under your skin, and I wouldn't stop until I got you.
Of course, do that when you're 25 years old, and you look silly. But when you're a pre-teen or teenager, you don't have the level of maturity or self-confidence to know what to do, especially if you get more and more alienated from the rest of your classmates.
It's not so easy to just ignore bullies.
to send an email.
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chief among them being the establishment of specific school policies
to do what? say its against the rules to bully? is txt message bullying somehow not covered under the policy "be nice to people", sounds like the ranting of a lazy management "erm yes lets have a meeting and create some more policies"
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I had a very similar experience all throughout school -- unfortunately, the only thing worse than being the person everyone loves to pick on is being the extremely shy person everyone loves to pick on, so I was never able to stand up for myself the way many other people posting in this thread have. I agree that kids need to be taught how to defend themselves, but at the same time I think parents need to teach them that the things they say can have very real and lasting effects on people. I really envy the people who have found some sort of closure for all the anger that builds up after years of bullying, and I think it's tragic that so many people are graduating high school feeling like they've just escaped from a POW camp. Bullying is something that urgently needs more attention, because I don't remember any of the "zero tolerance" policies being enforced to any sort of degree while I was in school. My 2c, please excuse the rant :)
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Amaris
This gets lots of laughs, and gives liqudsin the attention he craves. The net effect is to discourage outward signs of intelligence by belittling the "nerds." Ha Ha Ha. You sure are cool.
God forbid anybody is smart in this dumbed-down society.
Pathetic.
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cyber bullying also happens in online communities, where people will join communities, and use various forms on pressure to get the weak minded to do whatever they want, or people who pointlessly troll and spam others, to a psychotic degree (emails, website attacks, hacking, character deflamation.. etc) luckily they cant hurt you physically. and you can change names online and go elsewhere, in reality, you cant, well you can, but it's not as easy, and that's only after bullying gets to the point of stalking and death threats.. when it becomes a pure obsession on the bully's part. that's when you set up a sting on the bastard.
I was once harassed online and offline by someone, he didnt directly atack me, but he had his friends pass messages to me, and online, he'd go to chatrooms and spam...
well, I eventually found the bastard, was some little nerdy (as in, a loser without a life, and not that intelligent, but wants to be) final fantasy fanboy, he tried to run, tripped, then I beat his ass up.
my problems went away quickly.
I have a high temper threshold, but if someone manages to break it, say a bully, I cant garauntee their safety, since when I do his my threshold, I just snap.
other than that, yeah, I could go on about all the things they missed in that report, since cyber bullying goes farther than that, hell, bullying in general goes farther than that, a lot of true cyber bullies (Ones that plague communities) were probably brought up in a shitty situation, then got the shit beaten out of them at school, so they take it online..
they're usually the losers, most peopel online arent bothered by them, some are, especially when they get obsessive.. I've seen it, and have seen it firsthand. hell, one asshole actually wants me dead, and his followers have vowed to kill me in his name, you know.. shit like that.. that's how sad the internet gets, folks.
doubt any of them can leave their chairs anyways.
Spare me the talk of "call the police." The police can't or won't do anything in these cases. Where I went to school (suburb outside large metro area) the bullies weren't "jocks." Kicking their ass is the LAST thing you should (or will) do. Playing (key phrase) friendly is often the best bet - even in cases like mine. In 3rd-5th grade => fight back. Maybe. pre/high school => don't fight - run, unless you're a Charles Bronsen wannabe...
No esta aqui!
Not sure how easy it'd be in England to sue over this since that's where the incident took place, but here in the US I imagine a lawsuit would soon follow, and the fact that everything's online would make evidence oh-so-easy, and with the recent school shooting in the US I don't think a judge would be too nice to the bullies. Police might be interested too.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
I am surprised that no one has cited this article yet: Why Nerds are Unpopular.
Paul raises several ideas which are interesting...
Like a politician who wants to distract voters from bad times at home, you can create an enemy if there isn't a real one. By singling out and persecuting a nerd, a group of kids from higher in the hierarchy create bonds between themselves: attacking an outsider makes them all insiders. This is why the worst cases of bullying happen with groups. Ask any nerd: you get much worse treatment from a group of kids than from any individual bully, however sadistic.
It's like those snotty twin girls on the Simpsons!
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So basically the problem is that people are spreading rumours using the internet? I, for one, am astounded! Who would ever think to malign the internet so?
Ok, so yes, bullying is a problem and the schools sure as hell aren't doing anything to help with it when kids are there (I think the Onion put it best with "Columbine Jocks Safely Resume Bullying"), but this really isn't anything especially new. It's like claiming the school needs to do something about kids writing notes to each other spreading rumours, or prevent them from phoning each other to spread them.
It doesn't seem that things have quite reached the level of extortion and serious crime and I'm not saying that it's acceptable, but this is something that's going to go on regardles of the medium being used. This is little more than a vague link to the internet used for the hell of it. I expected this crap back in '97 but not now. I mean, really, "Cyber-bullying"? Who in their right mind would ever use that?
... only geeks that get bullied anyways.. why do the /. crowd care about that? :)
Post bad things about me below here --->
Solution to bullying: Teach your kid how to defend him/herself, and how to put up a website of thier own of course ; }
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Trust me, you don't want to be in real estate. That's where the bullies and dropouts wind up!
The solution to this is more Columbines, albeit better directed at the offenders. No, seriously, think about it. (I'm not saying it's the IDEAL solution, mind you.)
After enough picked-on kids get pissed off and beat to death, shoot, publically humiliate, etc., the bullies, it will stop.
The root of the problem is that the schools back the bullies up, not the victims. If a kid defends himself, *he* is expelled or suspended half the time. The end result is that we have fewer fucking juvenile sociopaths out there.
Fuck the bullies. Fuck the education system.
Am I seriously the only damn person who reads slashdot that was never bullied in school. Jesus. I hang out with a bunch of geeks. I'm outta here . . .
I wouldnt think that suspension would be any deterent for a bully. What would work much better is humiliation.
Eg, being forced to wear a sandwich board with the word "loser" in bright orange letters.
I'm glad that worked for you. Please understand that it doesn't work in every case. It certainly didn't work for me; clever put-downs, withering looks, abuse in kind, aggression, physical violence, ignoring it, walking away, suffering in silence, looking for help... nothing worked. Nothing. I never found a way to stop it. Arriving at uni and finding that life wasn't always like that was a complete revelation to me.
At least, there is no physical harm done in cyber-bullying.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can wound deeper still, can obliterate self-respect, build psychological walls, destroy personality, make life almost unbearable. Believe me. With verbal abuse there's no effective way to fight back, no evidence to show anyone, nothing for people to take seriously. It can go on constantly, under the noses of teachers or other adults, takes no effort on the part of the abusers, and can be dismissed as oversensitivity or immaturity. It's precisely because there's no physical harm that it can be so pervasive, and so overlooked.
It's hard to explain just how it affected me. I probably suffered very little compared to some - I'm no martyr, and it didn't stop me having a fairly normal childhood, with no obvious lasting damage. I can recall very few actual incidents. But it was always there, always with me, a constant faint background of hatred and cruelty, grinding me down, making me weary and miserable. It started because of my height (I was the shortest kid in the school two years running, though I caught up later), but once it got started there was no way to stop it - and believe me, I tried. I rarely thought "I'm being picked on", because at some level I just assumed that's how life was.
No doubt I was immature and annoying, and probably deserved some of it. No doubt some of it wasn't meant too seriously, and I should have just shrugged it off; and no doubt if many of the kids had realised just how much it hurt, they wouldn't have done so. I don't hold any grudges now (though I came a long way before I could say that). But I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Even now, when I occasionally visit the school building (on unrelated business, and with no kids present) I still find it difficult. It still reminds me of how things were, of how I was - and it's something I really don't want to be reminded of. Even writing this post has been more difficult and painful than I expected.
I'm not suggesting laws or rules or bureaucracy or lawsuits or whatever. You can't stop people talking, you can't stop them laughing, you can't change their attitudes. But please don't dismiss non-physical abuse. I hope none of you knows just how much it can hurt.
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
I agree that this is a far-from-perfect world, and that violence - as a last resort - may solve some problems. But there are many that it won't solve.
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
One of the most important parts of growing up is learning how to deal with violence. In particular, learning when to use violence, and when not to use violence. Learning when and how to escalate or deescalate a violent encounter. Violence is a part of society and of human existence. It is inescapable. As long as we have fists and teeth there will be bullying, robbery, rape and war, and the need to defend oneself from these. Violence is neither right nor wrong in and of itself. It is a merely a tool.
For example, if a thief snatched a purse from an old woman and three guys jumped the thief and beat him up, they would be heroes and their action would be morally right. If three guys jump a random guy on the street and thrash him, they would be criminals and morally wrong. If you are threatened with a gun and you shoot back with your own gun, your use of violence would be justified. If someone called you names and you shot him, you would be wrong.
A child needs to learn these things and more. If he is male in many societies, he will be expected to be the defender of his family and his nation. He may have to mercilessly kill and maim as a soldier if his nation is under attack, the ultimate shame and the ultimate honor. He must come to terms with that.
How a child responds to bullying and whether or not he bullies others is part of the process of learning about violence. It will determine whether he eventually becomes a felon, a bully, a coward, a doormat, or simply a well-adjusted member of society. I feel that many children aren't learning the right lessons. The whole topic has somehow become taboo in public discourse, like sex education was in the past.
If a child is forbidden to fight back, even after all reasonable peaceful methods of resolving the issue have been exhausted, then he will learn to be walked on. He will never learn when and how much violence is right or wrong and develop a healthy spectrum of responses to violence. These are the people who will silently be bullied one day, then kill everyone with SMGs the next, since they know of nothing between total submission and total war. Conversely, if a child is allowed to bully others, or to escalate to violence before peaceful means are exhausted, then he is on his way to jail if nothing is done.
There is some happy medium between psychopath and pacifist, between bully and victim. It is enshrined in a society's laws and culture, and transmitted through media and family. A child needs to discover it. He needs to learn how to respond to an insult, a malicious rumor, a threat, a punch, a gun and a war. It's just part of growing up.
Never start a fight, but always end one. Violence must be avoided as far as possible, but no further. Violence is always wrong, but sometimes it is also right.
Agreed ... on the copying music front, the other day I came across an article from the Manchester Guardian entitled "Music piracy in Liverpool" (or perhaps it was Leeds). The year was 1913, and the mode of piracy was unauthorised reprinting of sheet music!
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
Cyber bullying...What? It's the same thing that has been happening from the dawn of time, just modernized. The spreading of half-truths and outright lies, teasing, bullying, etc is, in mind, good for kids. A kid needs to learn how to deal with unfavorable situations.
I was a nerd growing up and got picked on for it. It made me a stronger person and prepared me for life where everything isn't a rosy picture. The kids today are being raised as wimps so that they don't get their feelings hurt. Everyone's a winner! There are no losers!
I am glad I'm not a kid now.
-Slashdot Junky
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Landfill Mining Co.
Managing the (Un)natural Resources of Tomorrow
Geek Alert!
Instead of making up restrictive laws, let's loosen the laws up, allow everybody to buy guns, swords, and other weapons, and bring back the duel. In other words, if some jerk says something behind your back, you go up, slap him with a white glove, challenge him to a duel, and then take witnesses with you to the prescribed time and place. As long as both parties consent to the duel, you CANNOT be punished for maiming or killing the other person.
That would lead to a very reasonable system of law, where everybody would respect everybody, or be shot.
Survival of the fittest.
I'm reading these comments here so far, and the general attitude is, "Wow, that really sucks....I remember when I was a kid and [insert anectode here]." .... C'mon people! This is fucking Slashdot....news for NERDS!
We need to be sticking up for our own. If some dickhead little white trash piece of shit kid is fucking with future Slashdotters on the web, we need to take action. If it's okay for Fyodor to digitally bitchslap a troll who embarassed him, then certainly, as a collective whole, we can put our hacking efforts into embarassing these bullying little pricks.
I propose we have a new Slashdot category called cyber-bullies where people can profile a web site that's attacking some poor kid. The Slashdot commnity can then deal with it accordingly.
MS is doing it for years! Netscape is its first victim if my memory serve...
All they - the kids being bullied, or their parents - have to do is this:
1) Go to the kid doing the bullying - tell him to stop it or you'll take it to the next level. Contact the school so they're aware of it as well.
2) When the dumbass doesn't stop - you call the police and have the little shit and his parents arrested for harrasment by wire. Specifically, using a cell phone to intimidate the kid being bullied.
3) If they put up a website which contains untrue allegations, then you file a lawsuit against the kid doing the bullying and the parents for slander, liable, defamation of character.
4) Add the school to the lawsuit if they didn't suspend the bully, or at least try to intervene in any meaningful manner...
5) As part of the lawsuit, you ask that the kid not be allowed to touch a cell phone until he's 18.
6) As part of the lawsuit, you want a public apology written by the bully - signed by the bully and his parents, and published in a local newspaper (full page ad) and in the school newspaper. Have the assholes at the school sign it too.
7) Ask for attorney's fees, punitative damages, compensatory damages.
*bully gets beaten to a pulp by his parents* End of story.
Regular people just want to live their lives. They do not want to live in constant, shell-shocked fear of some false-bravado asshole waving a gun in their face at some percieved insult to their ego-impaired machismo.
This is an incredibly stupid idea which never fails to be trucked out by some short-sighted armchair logic nitwit. Move to a lawless country where this idiot idea is reality, or shut the hell up. --Or better yet, join a street gang where lack of respect is also punishable by death, because that system certainly works to keep people civilized and whining bullets out of school yards which are filled with everybody else who isn't a fucking moron.
-FL
Well, you just said something weird and awkward, dude. Nobody likes feeling uncomfortable and will support anyone who helps them feel better, even if they are a tosser.
liquidsin's comment wasn't funny because he put down ebh, but because he parodied the above situation.
Bullying is part of human nature. You can't eliminate it in schools, and if you did, you'd only be depriving kids of a chance to learn how to deal with it in the real world.
Chronically-bullied kids need to be taught skills to deal with these situations. Martial arts (to deal with confrontation), humour (to get everyone on your side) & game theory (understanding the basic psychology of situations) all helped me.
That is the same bullshit logic that dictatorships use, and the same logic behind the MPAA sponsored law against having pre release movies. 3 years is a totally excessive punishment for a having a digital copy of something. The theory is, of course, make the punishment so harsh that noone wants to break the law. Well that is just wrong in so many ways. It's wrong on the slippery slope that leads to executions for minor crimes (after all, we don't want people doing them). It's wrong in that everyone fucks up and little fuckups shouldn't carry big punishments. But mostly it's wrong because it isn't fair and is EXPLICITLY forbidden by the constituion. Ammendment 8 forbids cruel and unusal punishments and excessive fines. This is more generally construed that the punishment must fit the crime.
Then we also have a concept that minors aren't as responsible for their actions. Any deceant psychologist will tell you that children (with very few exceptions) do NOT think like adults do. Along those lines, children are cruel without knowing better. Now, we do need to train them to become functioning adult citizens but throwing them in jail and kicking them out of school is NOT the way to do that.
Think what you are saying: For harassing someone, something almost everyone did at one time or another, they should be denied further public education and thrown in with REAL criminals. How bloody silly is that? Do shit like that, and you'll be turning kids into criminals. If they get no education except for that in jail they'll end up on the wrong side of life REAL quick.
However, maybe you are just an authoritarian on the scale that makes Ashcroft seem weak. If so, I suggest you do some research on an ultra authoritarian country. Singapore would be a good choice. You'll find that it DOES have benefits, but that the cost is amazingly high to the guilty and the innocent alike. If it appeals to you, perhaps consider moving, because this country was founded on freedom, and on giving people the benefit of the doubt.
Bully get's publically humiliated on national TV.
Not only should they show the bully bullying the kid, they should then bring in Mr. T who will proceed to beat the crap out of the little $#*@#&#, or at least give him a wedgie.
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I suppose this is another example of an inevitable downside to the interconnected world.
This is another example of American culture, no more and no less.
I think this may be one of those situations that depend on the area that one lives in.
Living near Detroit, I get the feeling that there are schools where the bully just might come back with a gun. (Note that these aren't reported as 'school shootings' ala Columbine, but instead are reported as 'gang shootings'. The difference being how many classmates get shot)
However, I would agree that in most places the bully probably just moves on.
I think you have forgotten about that "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" part.
What you are confused about is that while freedom is a right, there are limits. Free speech for example is limited with respect to shouting "fire" in a theater, or more on topic, it is limited w.r.t. slander and libal.
How long will it be until someone says "These cyber-bullies are terrorists waiting to happen -- they need to be jailed now!"
Patriot Act my ass -- it allows that sort of thing to happen.
I was bullied as a kid, but I turned out just fine, and when I visit my hometown, the bullies are still there, but now they pump that sweet sweet Iraqi gasoline into my American-Made Ford Mustang. I never smelled a sweeter victory than that.
Moral of the story: life is a series of ups and downs, and you can't really appreciate the ups without experiencing the downs.I wouldn't have the massive pleasure of the gas pumping now, if they hadn't bullied me then.
We are Neo, they are Smith, and Karma balances out the equation.
geeks are cats who dig a certain kind of cool
Now it's 18 years down the road from high school. The "sucking it up" years have nicely evolved into 13 years of panic attacks and it's oh-so-much-fun to know that if I want to spend time driving my wife and beautiful son around the countryside, I can't do it without the help of Xanax. I've probably spent 20 or 30K$USD on shrinks and meds to maintain some outward semblance of a normal life. Except when I'm have to get from point A to point B, I'm finally happy inside and at peace with myself (and I'm not on any "maintenance meds" any longer, only Xanax when I need to drive or travel).
But hey, at least I've got a higher earning potential than the cretins that fucked with me.
While violence doesn't solve anything in principle, I'm going to teach my son that the first person to touch him in a bullying fashion *deserves* a complimentary transformation into a bloody pile of flesh, bodily fluids and bone fragments. Why? Simple. I firmly believe that had I gone this route and nipped the bullying I received right when it started, I would have saved myself 4 years of being fairly miserable in school and 13 years (and counting) of ungodly stress afterwards, just trying to be a normalish member of society.
(if you're wondering why I didn't get panic attacks in college, the only assumption I can draw is the excessive alcohol consumption which tended to keep me in enough of a fog that I could function. yay. go me.)
If the bullying happens online, it's slander and/or libel. As much as I *despise* the USian legal system, the arguable best route is to file a suit that would make Gates' net worth look like pocket change on the parents of the miscreant who posted it. Take your pick - defamation of character, slander, libel, mental anguish & cruelty
I recall a documentary on prison life some years ago where the inmate being interviewed explained that assaults and murders took place because something had to finally give.
The inmates in conflict had to face each other day in and day out for the next many years, with no way of avoiding each other. Conflict was unavoidable. Someone eventually had to be taken down a notch or 6.
This is much like school, as well described by the parent post above. I really wonder if the escalation of violence in schools is due to inescapable, required attendance.
If its Fight or Flight, and flight is not an option, what else could occur?!
"You have liberated me from thought."
Some bullies continue on into the adult life. You have street gangs, obnoxious neighbors, CEOs and presidental cabinets, to name a few.
However, I could post on an open forum that I think you're an absolute shithead, and this violates no law whatsoever. I could also say that I suspect you're an AIDS-carrying fudge-packing meat-spanking loser, and this too is a form of protected free speech.
Well, yeah, but that won't stop someone with deep enough pockets from suing you to (financial) death. Even if they lose, are you willing to spend x thousand dollars/pounds/euros/whatever to defend your self or your brat posting this garbage online?
last post, woot!
The trouble with fighting back is that if you do it ineffectively, you get clobbered, and if you do it effectively, you go to jail for assault and battery. You need legal advice before beating up a bully today. You can't seriously damage them when they're not directly attacking you.
That is so old-school - and the reason why bullying still exists today. Violence should never be ignored. It forces the victim to be silent and suffer alone as if they deserved it or did something to cause it (never true), and allows the bullying to continue until it escalates out of control - this is when someone gets hurt - usually the victim again. Trust me, if you have a kid getting bullied in school or on the streets - the very last thing you want to tell them is to ignore it. Hell no. Violence, sexual harrassement, phone stalking, threating emails are all against the law in most states, and if not they are sure to be breaking some type of policy. If the school won't fix it, you can sue the school because schools are federally mandated to provided a SAFE educational environment. Also the police can be called. No - we do not ignore what in reality is a violent crime.
I was bullied greatly in hs and told to ignore it - can you tell?
So true. There is so much children are allowed to do to each other that when they get older they'd be criminally prosecuted for. No, I am not talking about saying someone's shoes look funny. But ambushing someone outside the school, forcing their pants down, getting everyone to point and laugh, these are all (sexual) assult crimes as adults! A child at school has to either learn to "fight back" or learn to "get along" or "ignore" it. If someone were to do that outside my place of employment do you think people would just tell me to "deal with it" without looking absolutely stupid? It would be an absolute embarrassment to admit that you let someone get away with that in an adult setting. Yet, as a child, you just have to shrug your shoulders, say "oh well life sucks" and happily carry on in the same environment the next day with your abusers AND learn the material you're sent to school to learn?
:)
I am so glad to be an adult, and I now see why children are often in a great hurry to grow up
"Bulling only gets worst when parents get involved. Just tell kids to ignore it, and the bullies will move on to someone else after awhile."
My son is in accellerated learning courses (7th grade, doing 10th grade Science & Math, and 11th grade English), so can be construed as a reasonably intelligent young man.
Last year, one of his fellow students decided to bully & pester him incessantly.
My son did what I felt was an appropriate escalation of response:
1) Attempted to talk to the young man, trying to get to the root of WHY the bullying was happening
2) Told his teacher that the young man was bothering him & asked for either the bully to be moved or offered to move himself to another section of the classroom
3) Complained to his Student Counselor about the bully.
NONE of these actions stopped the bully. NO ONE made ANY attempt to punish the little thug.
So, when one day during a test, my son noticed the bully trying to cheat off him, my son curled his arm around his test paper in such a way as to prevent the peaking. The bully reached out, grabbed my son's arm, and moved it saying "Don't do that, I can't see when you do that."
My son snapped, and promptly stabbed his Number 2 pencil through the little twits sweater nailing his arm to the desk yelling "LEAVE ME ALONE, DAMN IT!"
They tried to suspend my son for being physically violent, yet when the fact that the bully had been pestering my son for nearly six months unchecked came to light, I offered to press charges against the school for allowing the situation to continue in the first place.
("Let me get this straight. You've known that this boy has been bullying my son for six months and never bothered to tell anyone about it? My son has reported to you that [the bully] followed him home saying he was going to kick [my son's] ass, and you didn't bother to contact ME? I've got news for you, folks, there isn't a lawyer on the planet that wouldn't drool like a Pavlovian dog over the level of fsck-up on your part, and the amounts of money THEY could make prosecuting you into a very deep hole. Yes, what my son did was wrong, but against the actions of the bully and YOU, they so pale in comparison as to be meaningless.")
Both my son and I accepted the fact that his actions were wrong, stabbing someone isn't right unless it's in defense of your life, but we accepted it ONLY on the condition that the School accept the fact that they shirked their duties in maintaining a protected atmosphere condusive to learning. (Their words, not mine, in their "Parent Teacher Agreement" forms we had to sign upon registering him for school in the first place.)
In the end, they expelled the bully, set him AND his parents to counseling, and suspended my son for *one day* ("to reflect on what he'd done").
Since then, my son has improved his ability to deal with idiots, his grades have gotten better, and he's MUCH more likely to become a well-adjusted adult knowing that he doesn't have to "take it" from idiots who deserve to have their asses handed to them.
Martial arts classes have helped him remain calm, focused, and in control of his anger, as well as giving him the knowledge of body mechanics to do more "acceptable" methods of showing someone that he's not interested in being picked upon. (There's nothing like having him offer his hand to shake, and suddenly finding yourself lying in a heap a few feet away, on your back, cartoon stars twirling about your head, and the chirping of birds filling your ears as you realize that an *eleven year old* just flipped you like a rag dool. heheheh)
So parental intervention is sometimes a VERY good way to keep matters from escalating into acts of violence (ESPECIALLY if the school isn't doing it's job in the first place) between students.
Granted, not in EVERY case, but I'd be willing to bet more often than not.
Talk shows have been doing this for years: "Boot Camp"
Well, I was being facetious when I suggested Mr. T beat these kids up. I hadn't thought of the "boot camp" thing. Actually, the "boot camp" thing disgusts me. I wonder why the kids in it don't just sit there or go limp or whatever. I suppose non-violent resistance doesn't occure to bullies.
I guess I was thinking of the Silver Spoons episode. Rather silly. Whatever.
Maybe I should at least have been more 90s and suggested Mr. Hat. Whatever.
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"What? You got a problem with that? You chicken, McFly?! Draw!"
The only difference between this and highschool, (where the duel has basically been in practice since the first school bell ever rang), is that now there'd be a legal body count, the psychotic rush a bully gets from the transfer of power starts at a dangerously high level, and everybody gets to walk around with an extra fear in their gut.
In any case, I know adults who will roll up their sleeves and beat the shit out of each other to solve conflicts. (I live in a very rural area). No laws are broken, and its quite rare that lives are lost. Why involve lethality just to proove machismo? --And it would certainly come to that! With a 'legal dueling age,' young men eager to proove their masculinity and to justify all the practice they put into gun and sword training, would seek out idiot duels.
Feudal Japan once more? The Wild West once again? These days I can speak my mind to anybody I choose with the reasonable assurance that I won't be challenged to life or death combat over a political difference or for looking at some bozo's girlfriend. I do not think a return to the days of fear are a step toward a more civilized society. Those sorts of societies ALWAYS favor war-lords. Kings were abandoned in favor of democracy for a reason.
-FL
Cycles of violence are usually stopped by violence. Bullies don't understand compassion or logic.
But you sure got BEST POST.