I'm as much of a linux fan as anyone, probably more. but, if a linux company bought another who used NT servers, and grumbled that they would rather have the servers running on Linux, would that be acceptable?
It's fine to advocate linux as much as we can, but it's also important to avoid hypocrisy
Looks like it might be time for me to lose Redhat.
They certainly have the right to do anything in their power to make money. Every company does.
But as a customer, I have the obligation to find the best value, and this seems to remove Redhat from that category. I'm assuming support and everything else remains at the same charge.
these people need to go back home. If there is a shortage of workers in the US, guess what, train some people. Don't import all these foreign bastards who won't do anything but bitch about how much they hate the US.
There are plenty of people in this country who would like those jobs. Giving them to foreigners is stupid.
isn't if it was rigged, hell, how many polls have been slashdotted in favor of linux in the past?
the real question is by who(m)?
If it's some fanboy group, windot.org or whatever, big deal... who cares. Every fan group does it. BUT... If it's by a higher power, (and I've heard of microsoft doing things like this in the past) then it's a very big deal, and needs to be exposed and milked for all it's worth.
if they can find out, that will make all the difference. I'd like to know the "who".
the first and second sample quality pictures are from the same clip... same file name, except the name is blurred out on the first one for whatever reason.
then they could put a linux program or two on the shelf.
right now there are quite a few stores where you can buy "linux" in a shiny box... Redhat, mandrake, suse... But there is not a single store where you could buy a linux game or application.
120,000 people in town, and not a single copy of linux quake on a retail shelf anywhere.
Why do I have this embarrased feeling, like I was a supporter of the reform party when they started brawling with each other over how the other side wasn't following the "right" ideals?
This license bastardization and bickering has got to stop. KDE has done a great thing for all of us, and Troll Tech has taken a huge step which deserves praise as well.
The very idea of bashing another project with no purpose other than to help Linux turns my stomach, and I think we all need to take a deep look at motivations here, and examine who is really helping Linux, and who is bringing it down.
I'm just disgusted at reading Stallman's ranting, and I have lost any respect I might have once had for that man.
but, I'd bet this thread will end up being archived in redmond, and if someone does come up with a painless, working solution, it will be "fixed" in the next win2k sp.
I'll use whichever one is most stable, easiest to navigate, and supports the most apps.
I could care less about these "wars", and I hope most linux users feel the same way.
Would be nice if they could work together instead of against each other, but perhaps competition, no matter how heated, can benefit everyone.
btw, I enjoyed this note from the author indicating his usual slant presented in the article here... "By then, KOffice, which is already really good, will have been released. And unlike StarOffice, it loads for use the same day its icon is clicked."
very sad that there doesn't seem to be any indication of this changing. Maybe this could be a good thing, because if they step that far over the line, it just may make "the line" stronger.
big companies have always had free rule over the little guy.
to be taken seriously, it will have to adequately address the shortcomings of linux. I'm very pro linux, and even I stopped buying the PR on that site when I read about how Linux has more software than windows.
a more balanced view would be much better than one of a blind advocate.
microsoft has always said they make more money from office than from windows.
Linux is a fast growing platform with lots of users and no real office suite.
Microsoft has little to lose, and much to gain by releasing office to linux. (closed source binaries, obviously) by doing so, they retain the ability to control and set their "standards" however they want. They retain office as the only office suite most companies are willing to touch (realistically). and they get more power over linux, by making a large part of what people use it for completely microsoft proprietary. Add linux MSIE into the mix, and they have instantly gained quite a foothold in the linux arena.
sure, it has good points, and it may end up being more of a benefit than a curse, but in the short term, this could be much better for microsoft than it is for linux.
I realize there are a lot of people on/. who won't be able to see through their "l33tness" to realize how this will benefit everyone, but this is exactly the kind of thing that Linux needs to begin to have commercial acceptance.
I want to use linux. I want to be able to buy games on linux in a store (not choose from 6 3 year old ports I have to mail order) and other software.
To get all of this to happen, Linux needs a larger user base. The number of AOL users is huge. I know several, and almost all of them use AOL because it is the only affordable choice in their area.
The worlds largest ISP (isn't it?) is going to begin to support Linux. Other companies will see this, and have no choice but follow. You'll soon see PC makers just starting to realize they can actually make money selling linux machines to the masses, not just servers.
This is a major victory for linux, and anyone who is intelligent enough to quit the "redhat sucks, aol sucks, newbies aren't worth pissing on" bullshit attitude which is so prevalent here, and in the Linux community, (and has done more to hurt Linux than anything else ever could) Should be really exciting at how big this step is, and how broad the benefits will eventually be.
I'm no AOL fan, and certainly the first few versions of this will be buggy and broken, but in the perspective of things which can happen to benefit linux in the long run, this is well up on the list. Put away the elitist geek comments, and look at the big picture here.
I've been wanting to set up a 486 box as an ipmasq machine for a while, but I've noticed a serious problem with it.
I am a gamer, and with most online games, where you go to the server list and hit refresh, the machine will lock up when it tries to hit the 200 servers or so on the list.
anybody know a solution to this? I need my quake and my tribes.
I know the air of superiority is staggering around here, but this is great news for linux.
Just yesterday we were faced with a story from John Carmack on how releasing games for linux is practically stupid, due to extremely underwhelming returns.
Linux needs commercial software support to grow. Not just games, but other software joe idiot user can go to walmart and install on his machine. Why does linux need joe idiot? because joe idiot is exactly the person who uses AIM, and he is exactly the one of millions who goes to the store with a wad of cash looking for linux software. Once Linux becomes usable for everyone, including joe who needs his AIM and his AOL, we will be one step closer to never seeing another story about how a 3 year old game may be ported in a few months. And I, for one, am looking forward to it.
yes, I know there are more than a few people here who don't want anyone with less than a CS masters to ever be able to use linux, and never use any programs they haven't written themselves, but fortunately their numbers are shrinking.
I am yet another person who wanted to buy the linux version of Q3, but I don't have a store that sells it within 100 miles, and I don't want to order off the net.
could I drive 3 hours to get a copy, or compromise my desires to not order off the net, in order to order a game for linux instead of windows? yea, but would most people (including myself, as someone who was just a casual user at the time) do it? no.
It's too bad.
Linux version sitting beside the windows version on the shelf in the software store, and you bet your ass I'd be right there buying the linux version. Hell, I only play Q3 in linux. But as it is, it's not just a slight inconvenience to get the linux version, it's a MAJOR inconvenience. Which, if that isn't bad enough, People end up comparing the two.
Would not releasing a linux patch have made me buy linux q3? no, it would have made me not buy Q3 at all.
Loki is a good company, and they are doing all they can. But, without proper distribution (not a single retail outlet supported by loki in my town of 110,000 people) you can't possibly get an accurate representation of the interest. It's the same with releasing old, outdated games. Of course you can't generate the same interest.
Obviously, the problem here is that you can't get the marketshare without interest, and you can't get interest without marketshare. major hurdle to overcome, no good solutions.
there should be some kind of campaign to get all these distros to design their packaging and promotions to call their distros "Suse 7.0 (Linux)" or "Redhat 7 (Linux)" not "(suse) LINUX 7"
That's just misleading to the large number of people who haven't used linux before, and are looking to try it.
Slashdot Mirror
It's fine to advocate linux as much as we can, but it's also important to avoid hypocrisy
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ack.
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Within ethical reason, obviously.
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They certainly have the right to do anything in their power to make money. Every company does.
But as a customer, I have the obligation to find the best value, and this seems to remove Redhat from that category. I'm assuming support and everything else remains at the same charge.
________
these people need to go back home. If there is a shortage of workers in the US, guess what, train some people. Don't import all these foreign bastards who won't do anything but bitch about how much they hate the US.
There are plenty of people in this country who would like those jobs. Giving them to foreigners is stupid.
________
the real question is by who(m)?
If it's some fanboy group, windot.org or whatever, big deal... who cares. Every fan group does it. BUT... If it's by a higher power, (and I've heard of microsoft doing things like this in the past) then it's a very big deal, and needs to be exposed and milked for all it's worth.
if they can find out, that will make all the difference. I'd like to know the "who".
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You can't promise to do a full page story on Mom's diner if they promise to buy an ad every week for the next month. It just can't work that way.
Hopefully these publications do business the same way.
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I'd think they have to have a backlash sometime soon.
Imagine a company that makes you GLAD that it's microsoft who has the monopoly.
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strange...
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right now there are quite a few stores where you can buy "linux" in a shiny box... Redhat, mandrake, suse... But there is not a single store where you could buy a linux game or application.
120,000 people in town, and not a single copy of linux quake on a retail shelf anywhere.
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you'd really have to be a geek to wear something like that... don't you agree?
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This license bastardization and bickering has got to stop. KDE has done a great thing for all of us, and Troll Tech has taken a huge step which deserves praise as well.
The very idea of bashing another project with no purpose other than to help Linux turns my stomach, and I think we all need to take a deep look at motivations here, and examine who is really helping Linux, and who is bringing it down.
I'm just disgusted at reading Stallman's ranting, and I have lost any respect I might have once had for that man.
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________
I could care less about these "wars", and I hope most linux users feel the same way.
Would be nice if they could work together instead of against each other, but perhaps competition, no matter how heated, can benefit everyone.
btw, I enjoyed this note from the author indicating his usual slant presented in the article here... "By then, KOffice, which is already really good, will have been released. And unlike StarOffice, it loads for use the same day its icon is clicked."
________
very sad that there doesn't seem to be any indication of this changing. Maybe this could be a good thing, because if they step that far over the line, it just may make "the line" stronger.
big companies have always had free rule over the little guy.
________
to be taken seriously, it will have to adequately address the shortcomings of linux. I'm very pro linux, and even I stopped buying the PR on that site when I read about how Linux has more software than windows.
a more balanced view would be much better than one of a blind advocate.
________
Linux is a fast growing platform with lots of users and no real office suite.
Microsoft has little to lose, and much to gain by releasing office to linux. (closed source binaries, obviously) by doing so, they retain the ability to control and set their "standards" however they want. They retain office as the only office suite most companies are willing to touch (realistically). and they get more power over linux, by making a large part of what people use it for completely microsoft proprietary. Add linux MSIE into the mix, and they have instantly gained quite a foothold in the linux arena.
sure, it has good points, and it may end up being more of a benefit than a curse, but in the short term, this could be much better for microsoft than it is for linux.
assuming it's real at all.
________
I realize there are a lot of people on /. who won't be able to see through their "l33tness" to realize how this will benefit everyone, but this is exactly the kind of thing that Linux needs to begin to have commercial acceptance.
I want to use linux. I want to be able to buy games on linux in a store (not choose from 6 3 year old ports I have to mail order) and other software.
To get all of this to happen, Linux needs a larger user base. The number of AOL users is huge. I know several, and almost all of them use AOL because it is the only affordable choice in their area.
The worlds largest ISP (isn't it?) is going to begin to support Linux. Other companies will see this, and have no choice but follow. You'll soon see PC makers just starting to realize they can actually make money selling linux machines to the masses, not just servers.
This is a major victory for linux, and anyone who is intelligent enough to quit the "redhat sucks, aol sucks, newbies aren't worth pissing on" bullshit attitude which is so prevalent here, and in the Linux community, (and has done more to hurt Linux than anything else ever could) Should be really exciting at how big this step is, and how broad the benefits will eventually be.
I'm no AOL fan, and certainly the first few versions of this will be buggy and broken, but in the perspective of things which can happen to benefit linux in the long run, this is well up on the list. Put away the elitist geek comments, and look at the big picture here.
________
Big backing is a very good thing, and regardless of how you feel about corporate involvement, we will all benefit from this type of thing.
________
I am a gamer, and with most online games, where you go to the server list and hit refresh, the machine will lock up when it tries to hit the 200 servers or so on the list.
anybody know a solution to this? I need my quake and my tribes.
________
Anyway, I figured fuck them and I'm running it regardless.
I'm running a home LAN here with a couple systems on the same IP using ipmasq on my main system. Is this going to be a problem?
________
Just yesterday we were faced with a story from John Carmack on how releasing games for linux is practically stupid, due to extremely underwhelming returns.
Linux needs commercial software support to grow. Not just games, but other software joe idiot user can go to walmart and install on his machine. Why does linux need joe idiot? because joe idiot is exactly the person who uses AIM, and he is exactly the one of millions who goes to the store with a wad of cash looking for linux software. Once Linux becomes usable for everyone, including joe who needs his AIM and his AOL, we will be one step closer to never seeing another story about how a 3 year old game may be ported in a few months. And I, for one, am looking forward to it.
yes, I know there are more than a few people here who don't want anyone with less than a CS masters to ever be able to use linux, and never use any programs they haven't written themselves, but fortunately their numbers are shrinking.
________
could I drive 3 hours to get a copy, or compromise my desires to not order off the net, in order to order a game for linux instead of windows? yea, but would most people (including myself, as someone who was just a casual user at the time) do it? no.
It's too bad.
Linux version sitting beside the windows version on the shelf in the software store, and you bet your ass I'd be right there buying the linux version. Hell, I only play Q3 in linux. But as it is, it's not just a slight inconvenience to get the linux version, it's a MAJOR inconvenience. Which, if that isn't bad enough, People end up comparing the two.
Would not releasing a linux patch have made me buy linux q3? no, it would have made me not buy Q3 at all.
Loki is a good company, and they are doing all they can. But, without proper distribution (not a single retail outlet supported by loki in my town of 110,000 people) you can't possibly get an accurate representation of the interest. It's the same with releasing old, outdated games. Of course you can't generate the same interest.
Obviously, the problem here is that you can't get the marketshare without interest, and you can't get interest without marketshare. major hurdle to overcome, no good solutions.
________
and we wonder why people get confused.
there should be some kind of campaign to get all these distros to design their packaging and promotions to call their distros "Suse 7.0 (Linux)" or "Redhat 7 (Linux)" not "(suse) LINUX 7"
That's just misleading to the large number of people who haven't used linux before, and are looking to try it.
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