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Apple's Ad Agency Goes After Mac Rumour Sites
lythari writes "ZDNet is reporting that Apple's advertising agency is threatening several publications carrying Apple ads to stop printing Apple rumours or else Apple will stop advertising with them. " Hmmm...can you say "Bad Karma"?
Not only do I agree with you, but in reality, it's not really a rumour if it's true.. I hope one of these companies does continue to post rumours and takes them to court. This is a case that Apple couldn't win.
The point was...
It was a computer for my mother, my grandmother, uncle fred. Why would they need a debugger? they wanted little pictures.
but then again... why am I bothering to respond to some phony elite twerp.
to them its a freekin toaster. they have no passion for this thing you can't function without. It's a toaster and the mac made white toast.
It's a common tactic. The sites are publishing *rumor*. They're not publishing *fact*. It's fairly common to threaten to pull advertising to stop what is percieved as bad press. Apple's just (IMHO) trying to control how information about themselves is released to the press.
Get a grip, people. Apple's just a company, doing regular company stuff. They percieve possible damage, they do damage control. Big deal.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
I'm not saying that Apple is right in what they're doing, it would be better for them to just leak ridiculous rumors and a) undermine their credibility and b) fire any paid employees who leak secrets.
all publications should stop talking about Apple period. No more regurgitation of self-serving press-releases as news, no more bullshit corporate spin as commentary, no more free advertising in the form of product reviews
Ummm, what?
I think Slashdot should from this point forward replace the Apple icon in its stories with a photo of Steve Jobs in Stalin's moustache.
This really underlines an important point. Despite what people might think, Apple is not a government. It is a for-profit company. Apple is not responsible for the coverup of the discovery of aliens. Jobs did not assissinate JFK. They're not trying to prevent you from watching DVDs on Linux, or even preventing you from downloading Metallica MP3s.
ALL Apple is doing is deciding to not pay the people that are taking information on their unannounced products (some that may never even make it to market), and selling it in a magazine for personal gain. Most of these magazines and online publications are for-profit organizations. They are taking something from Apple, and attempting to make a quick buck off it. Why would Apple continue to buy advertising from these people? I don't see anything immoral about this. They're voting with their checkbook.
He's better than Bill, alright--even a better power-drunk, paranoid Tyrant.
What's amusing is that Gates is doing such a good job at what he does that you actually believe Apple/Jobs is more harmful to the industry/society than Microsoft/Gates. When was the last time Microsoft released an open source OS, of any kind? Or an open source streaming media server? How much innovation has Microsoft really brought to the industry?
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
if i wanted a next, i would have bought a next. obviously A LOT of people didn't want a next. else we'd all have them on our desktops.
Funny, I thought it had more to do with the extreme price of the NeXT cubes, and the fact that you had to buy hardware. (The same reason BeBox never went far.)
Apple survived because they had a niche in the graphics market, even though they also forced you to buy hardware. NeXT didn't really have a niche, AFAIK.
beauty is only skin deep. cube looks great, and tons of problems. aqua looked "lickable" but worked horrible.
What exactly are the "tons of problems" with cubes? As for Aqua working horribly, I've never heard that. Then again, it's a matter of taste.
Personally, I like BeOS best.
-thomas
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"And like that
Well with all the stuff going on with Rambus, I think this is just Apple taking steps to make sure they retain the title of Most Litigation-Happy Company Ever.
Ummm, nobody is suing anybody in this story. Apple just doesn't want to keep giving money to the people that are pre-announcing their products for them.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Apple can spend their advertizing dollars where ever they want, but not spending them at the rumors sites would be stupid. Further, trying to stop the rumor sites is stupid. Consider:
1) People that use Macs are often fanatics (I am not using the word in a bad way, I simply mean that people that buy Macs tend to be "Mac owners" people that buy PC's (with a number of exception) tend to be "people that have computers"). They actually are interested in their platform above and beyond its usefulness as a tool.
2) Because of this they tend to hang around on Mac sites (rumor based or otherwise). They enjoy these sites, they like to learn about their platform.
3) By carrying out this threat Apple is doing three things (Well, more than that, but I choose to list these three): Pissing off the people that own, run and work on the sites, most of whom are Mac fans and users, but may well turn against a company that repeatedly treats them like crap. Pissing off users who will have to either watch their favorite sites cave and become less interesting or stand up and loose money, all because of a company that both the user and the site try to support. Loosing advertiseing eyeballs in a group that is most suseptable to buying their product.
So basically they are choosing a route that decreases the value of their marketing and risks alienating some of their greatest supporters in an effort to control rumors, which as often as not serve as advertising in and of themselves. Do we see a hole in this theory?
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
Instead of taking the hard way out of the rumors (building better products), Apple decided to take the easy, stereotypical, "corporate ultimatum" way out.
Exactly. Well put, and a lesson we all could apply in everyday life. The hard way is to repair yourself. The easy way is to blame others. Period.
And, regarding karma. The misapplication of karma was bothering me until the writer from India clarified it, and I realized the misapplication is actually simple a neologism, and therefore I now like it! Karma is being used like a void pointer because the conversation is not Indian, but is now going beyond the narrow definition of karma which is applied by people who specialize in it. Thank God for idiots.
The beauty of ignorance is that it can recreate a more functional version of something as limited as karma by simply misunderstanding it. "Karma" as it is used lately here has none of the implications of reincarnation, which is a limited and finite way of looking at things. I prefer the more infinite version that is attached to ONE lifetime, with eternal consequences. That makes what we do here less bound to karma, and more bound to grace. -Water Paradox
information is immaterial
B.S.
Apple's downturn in sales of that era dwarfed the number of clones sold. Unless people were choosing to buy 1 PowerTower instead of the 10 PowerMacs they'd been planning to buy before, you need to find another explanation.
Besides, cloners were paying license fees. If the issue had *really* been sales loss, Apple could have just set the license fee equal to their expected profit on the version of the machine that the clone would have competed with. Instead, Apple just pulled the plug on the program.
Trouble is, though, Apple has cut some serious corners on their once immaculate quality. The new iMacs are made by GOLDSTAR in Korea. Now if that isn't a schlock house, I don't know what is. Then again, they aren't alone...IBM is now pimping the once mighty Thinkpad name to Acer, and guess what? The A and i Series of Thinkpads are crap.
Apple's hardware used to be the standard other computers were measured by. Why do people collect old Macs? Because they are STILL USEFUL MACHINES. And they were BUILT. People still use IIfxes and SE/30s because they are tough little customers.
Hell, I love my LCIII+ (actually a Performa460, built before Performa = crap) because it is an useful machine that with its FPU installed can actually run Photoshop 3 at a usable speed. It's small...7 pounds for the CPU. It's efficient...uses about as much energy as a table lamp. Maybe I can't play Quake on it or watch Flash movies on it or play MP3s, but I used the thing to build websites up until I got my G3.
The pro-level Macs, the G3s and G4s and Powerbooks, are still made with the kind of craftsmanship that made Apple's bones. But my friend's iMacDV is a total freakin' lemon that requires use in almost a refrigerator environment because The Steve doesn't like case fans. Fsck that.
--.\\<-H--
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
The problem is that while Microsoft tries to throw it's weight around, it works because Microsoft is well-rooted in computing, and they're huge, so they can technically get away with a majority of dirty tricks.
Apple tries to throw it's weight around... but wait, what weight? They end up just shooting themselves in the foot because they've got so little leverage.
Sounds to me a bit like a company-sized ego problem.
How'd you manage to have a //e three years before they were released? That's a pretty good trick.
Exactly!
Fire the marketing maggots and hire more programmers.
LOL! Very, very true. Let us not forget that a lot of the FUD that came out during the "death watch" days for Apple came straight from InHell.
It's truly lovely to see AMD eat InHell's lunch with the Gigahertz war and all. ;-)
--\\<-H--
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I infer that you have never seen PC Magazine. 1995 award for Technical Excellence: Windows 95.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
In the strive to get the latest news first, sometimes printing rumors helps... as long as they are labeled as such. What Apple is trying to do is control the news so they always are the ones with all the latest info (which negates the whole purpose of other Mac news site). I think this has alot to do with the pre-realease cube pictures, Jobs wanted the spot light all for himself. He couldn't stand sharing it even though the light was shining brighter.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Well, at least threatening to pull advertising (and the associated income) is better than threatening to sue the pants off 'em...
--
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Yeah, right. I worked in the print media, too. And I've watched technology publications whore themselves out to the highest bidder. The company I work for was approached in the last few months by a supposedly reputable tech rag; the salesweasel flat out told the General Manager than editorial column inches on us were entirely dependant on buying an ad - the bigger the ad, the more column inches.
The seperation is generally considered cleaner in more mainstream publications, but there are well-known examples of so-called respectable publishers selling themselves to the highest bidder.
It just doesn't make any sense, like a 6 foot wookie living on Endor.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Steve Jobs needs to renew his birth control pills. He's PMSing out of control. PMS : Powerful Moron Syndrome.
"Apple Computer : Proudly going out of business for over 20 years"
-Billco, Fnarg.com
"ZDNet is reporting that Microsoft's advertising
agencing is threatening several publications
carrying Microsoft ads to stop printing Microsoft
rumours or else Microsoft will stop advertising
with them. "
MS made great (call it abusive) use of rumours.
Why cant apple let the word flow ? I dont see
a good reason to stop it, unless its diffamatory
or with the purpose of harm.
Everybody likes rumours. Its gossip, attention.
its hype. Man, rumours (good ones) are free
advertisement.
This paid my last vacation, it mi
i'm a die-hard apple fan, or at least i was. i go back to a 128 in 1984 and a //e in 1980. but i'll say this, apple sure is alienating their fans these days. jobs may have been good for pulling apple out of a rut, but he doesn't seem to have the ability to manage things as they flow along.
since he's taken over he's managed to:
kill the clones
kill the newton
bring back the closed, all-in-one, non-upgradable mac (iMac and Cube)
throw NeXTOS on top of new hardware (sorry OSX is NeXT in mac's clothing)
threaten to sue a few dozen web sites
just about squash publication of a book that doesn't portray him as a god
act like a spoiled brat when ATI let the cat out of the bag a little early (like we didn't know anyway?)
Sell out Apple to Microsoft.
Piss off game developers.
Piss off 3rd parties with constant color switches.
Failed to give the users/consumers many of the things they have asked for, 6 slot systems, voice recgonition, multi-button mice, etc.
Turn Apple's once great, free support into clueless, expensive, too-long-on-hold waste of time (example: call up with a broken mouse and they insist you reinstall the OS. hello??? yes, this happened to me. their tech support are clueless and only know how to read a script)
sue their own (ex)employees
go from a happy-friendly image to one of a closed, grey corporate environment.. kinda like what they didn't want in their 1984 ad. hmm.. Is that jobs we now see on the big screen?
What's up with this? I think someone needs to take Jobs over their knee and spank him a few times. Doesn't he know how to play nice with everyone else? Apple's market share sucks and by pissing off the only fans and users they have it's going to drop even more.
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
This
Um, i recieved an email, while on the Apple Mailing List about the iMac about 2 months before it came out. And I couldn't believe it didn't have a disk drive. They gave a lot of info about it out, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one on that list. rick.
Um, i recieved an email, while on the Apple Mailing List about the iMac about 2 months before it came out.
The iMac was "introduced" aka "announced" aka "unveiled" at a media event in May 1998. It shipped in August. Apple wasn't in danger of cutting into sales because there was no comparable machine (consumer centric) in the product line at the time.
- Scott
------
Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Pardon the pun, but you're talking apples and oranges.
It's not that rumors make the Mac look bad. It's that rumors (a) kill current sales while everyone waits for "the next big thing" and (b) tells competitors what's coming up so they can pre-announce it.
Not that I don't think this is a dumb policy, but there is a method to the madness.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Just want to point out, may of the rumor sites began as "information for the people" sites, and only added banner ads to help cover costs as they grew. Very comparable to Slashdot in that respect, which now is also a commercial enterprise.
(not disagreeing with you, btw)
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
The metallica of the computer industry...
well, not exactly....
ok, not at all...
I'm on a chair.
Well with all the stuff going on with Rambus, I think this is just Apple taking steps to make sure they retain the title of Most Litigation-Happy Company Ever.
Look for things to heat up when Rambus starts suing everybody that uses DDR in anything. I think Apple's only choice will be to respond by suing anyone with a product name that start small i capital consonant.
I'd think they have to have a backlash sometime soon.
Imagine a company that makes you GLAD that it's microsoft who has the monopoly.
________
No, tha'ts not ALL they're doing. They are requesting, if you read the article, " a statement from each magazine's publisher or editorial department asserting that they do not participate in publishing rumors or speculation about Apple or Mac."
Even one of our much maligned western governments wouldn't have the gall to request in writing that a newspaper commit to never publishing speculative articles.
This doesn't strike you as coercive or extortive? You think we shouldn't criticize this sort of behavior? Its ok for corporations to demand editorial changes because they spend money advertising their products?
In order to stop the rumors, Apple will stop advertising? Great! That's a fantastic busniess plan!
What's an "agencing?" Don't you mean "agency?"
I got your bad karma right here.
The small sites are the easiest to break. Apple aren't going to go after the big boys, who might hit back even harder than Apple can.
That's not bad karma. Bad karma is when you get moderated up despite a Goatse.cx link.
Doesn't this mean either ways rumours sites are going to be stuffed.
...
Scenario #1.
Don't publish rumours - no interesting articles - only boring reviews - no people hitting the page - no ad revenue.
Scenario #2.
Publish rumours - people come - lots of page hits - no ads - no money to support - might as well be dead
I hope this isn't a rumour itself
I Think to the all the mac papers who live essentialy on rumors, previews, new stuff and mac publicity. If they put only previews and new stuff they can fill 95% of the paper with publicity.On the other hand, if they put rumors, they can put a lot of interrestings articles and drop all the publicity crap. My heart is in balance between these 2 extremes :-)
Whereas I won't be typing on a Mac because Apple chose to employ them. I was lining up a Mac laptop for my next work PC, but I don't think I'll bother...
Rumors, leaks, and etc. should not be classified as a 'security problem'. When they really are free-advertising.
Everyone who goes to a rumor site KNOWS that it's a rumor, and that whatever is there might never make it to production. The thing to realize is that it's 'inside information' that really peaks people's interest. It's what keeps people excited about the product/product line...
The auto companies have had 'concept vehicles' at auto shows forever because people like to see what could be coming down the road... Daimler-Chrysler took that idea, and brought it to production, and the results the hottest things around: Viper, Prowler, and etc.
When will these people learn to USE the tools rather than try to squash them?
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
If a RedHat employee starts telling people to buy Microsoft software and to support the mentality, what do /.ers say? It's one bad employee and really has nothing to do with RedHat.
Apply the logic here. The advertising agency, an Apple employee (*not* Apple), does not want its copyrighted work to appear on websites which focus on Apple products that don't exist. It's one bad employee and has nothing to do with Apple.
Now, go put away your tar and the feathers.
--Jeff
Don't display apple ads.
You can generate more revenue by publishing Apple rumours and displaying M$ and Intel ads.
M$ and Intel will even supply you with Apple rumours for free.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Yeah. THe that is THEIR RIGHT. Nobody can force them to advertise with the magazine.
Should a magazine buckle to the whims of it's advertisers, the public picks up on it, and it's popularity decreases. A great many trade journals are like this.
Like the copies of 'server/workstation Expert' I get in the mail for some reason. It's industry-funded tripe.
This is very intriguing, I will learn something today. Here's the definition of 'grace' from Webster's
Main Entry: 1grace Pronunciation: 'grAs Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin gratia favor, charm, thanks, from gratus pleasing, grateful; akin to Sanskrit grnAti he praises Date: 12th century 1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b : a virtue coming from God c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace
I think Slashdot system kinda mixes both. Your karma stay with you until you create a new login in which case you have a clean slate again!
The 'classical' karma theory is more aligned with Objectivism.
Neologism reminds of many instances within present day Indian culture. One funny one being the word 'Yankee'. Until I came to USA I didn't realise it actually meant to address a people. Back in India the punjabi town/village simpletons address this term to complement someone's dressing style as in "Today you are looking very Yankee". This term came into popular use after the ice cream chain - Yankee Doodle.
I'm not quite sure what your point is, in terms of relevance to the issue at hand...
I'm beginning to hedge my bet that Apple will turn out to be worse than Microsoft. They already charge far more for basic components and a "squirt of color" than most normal computer manufacturers. Quicktime 4 is buggy, unstable and clashes with the basic guidelines of the GUI. Now Apple is filing suit against "John Does" and threatening against printing rumors. Enough is enough.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I see this problem all over the product journalism field, whether it be computers, cars, stereo gear, or movie reviewing quote whores. Big advertisers have power to influence content, and it's hard to put together a publication without their sponsorship. The solution is that we consumers have to demand independence.
Helium balloons want to be free.
And i'll say it again. Apple's historical behavior is far worse than Microsoft ever dreamed of being. The only reason no one cares about Apple's shinanigans is that they have been so incompetent at become a monopoly.
Can you imagine the uproar if Microsoft used their advertising dollars to try and influence editorial content?
I detest Apple-the-company, but ironically I'm excited about Apple's products for the first time since, well, 1984 (the release of the Mac). The Open Source community really, really needs to take what is good about OS/X (such as the XML-based configurations, perhaps the rendering system) and get the good ideas. Otherwise I may be tempted to someday get a Unix-based Mac. I really want a Unix-based desktop system that has a reasonable set of business applications, but not at that price (figuratively and literally).
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Maybe Jobs has realized where the real money is at: rumors. Think about it, MacOS Rumors, Slashdot, ZDNet--all non-fact-based journalism sites, all with high-traffic. Just like they killed off the clone makers a few years ago, they are killing off the rumor-clone makers now. Then they'll launch the iRumor.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Oddly, I contributed that story, but no one ever mentioned it on Slashdot.
Without rumors, Apple still does have some news to report...such as the news that all corporations like to report:
The corporations commitment to shaping the future.
The corporations commitment to building partnerships.
The corporations commitment to building a strong workforce that includes women and minorities.
The corporations commitment to forging alliances between the public and private sector to shape the future.
The corporations commitment to protecting the environment while returning their investors investment.
The corporations commitment to spending the money they aren't using to build a strong workforce or protecting the environment to pay PR firms to churn out glossy bullshit that they must have started reading themselves if they think they can get people to pay attention to it instead of actual, substantial news from independent sources.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
There's a long tradition of advertisers trying to influence the editorial side of publications, so this is nothing new. I just hope that the publications in question resist the pressure and that Apple (assuming that TBWA/Chiat/Day's threat is at their behest) back off of this immediately. I can understand Apple seeking to enforce NDAs, but not their intruding on the freedom of the press.
--meredith
--meredith
Sometimes a scream is better than a thesis
so it'll be an puter running an *intel* chip with a *microsoft* os?
way to take the moral highground there
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/bin/fortune | slashdotsig.sh
Rumors are the lifeblood of consumer originated hype! Leaks or not, they draw interest in the product. Waiting for Lord Steve to bless us with the Royal version of things takes too long.
/. a couple ad bux)
I'll start a rumor: The people behind this consort with fly larvae! (Sorry if I cost
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Now all you can read are praising reviews of so-so products (if they're big advertisers) or so-so reviews of really crappy products (if they're big advertisers) or scathing reviews from so-so products (if they're not advertisers).
Now you have to resort to other sources to get a less biased, and informative view. (Anandtech, Tomshardware, are web examples)
The bigger the media is, the worse it gets. What's really scary is who actually owns the large TV-stations... and watching politics dictate what is 'deemed' important enough to show on the news.
Rader
Any place that has a shred of journalistic integrity should immediately tell Apple four words: "First", "Amendment", "Fuck", "Off".
Jobs is a known control freak, but it's time for him to realize that his control over real world is limited. The sooner he understands this, the better it will be for everybody.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
Does it make me evil if I buy Cheerios instead of Cocoa Puffs?
I'm seriously considering switching from the mac (which i've been on since i've been 10 years old) to an ibm w/ GNU|Linux. they're actually trying to censor the damned press now to keep their relatively unimportant and predictable secrets safe. Rumors are usually just educated guesses which the readers can come up with on their own anyway.
Due to the inclement weather, all non-essential people can leave early.
Then he picks up the binoculars, chuckling to himself "This is going to be the easiest layoff ever."
Similarly, Apple is going to make it very easy to tell which magazines are independent and which are shills for the corporation. I can't think of a better way to have done it.
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
Rumour sites are what get the hype going, people salivating, and the media interested and pumped.
Steve Jobs is a control freak who while being good at getting people focused and directed, has proven time and again to be bad for the long term interests of the company. He needs a balance; somebody to keep him in reign when he starts throthing at the mouth.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
Folks,we might think it's silly.. but this is not 'evil'.
Apple isn't threatening to sue; Apple isn't threatening to abuse the courts to kill 'the little guy'. Apple is saying 'We don't agree with your putting up rumors, so we've decided that unless you stop doing it, we cannot advertise with you anymore'. This is called VOTING WITH YOUR MONEY.
Why should apple advertise with someone who is doing something they don't agree with? For the same reason you should buy music from a band you don't agree with?
In any other industry, it's perfectly acceptable to squash rumors of future products. We're just spoiled by years of poor security at computer companies. Why should Apple give away their competitive edge just so we can be entertained by speculation about non-existent products?
However, telling a publication not to print certain materials is much more common. Especially if those materials related to you.
For instance, many major magazines that are supposedly run the way you describe flat-out refuse to put AdBuster's Parody ads in, even though AdBuster's will pay FULL price, because they don't want to piss off their 'big' advertisers.
And man, that's capitalism at it's best.
Also, regarding the new product leaks, Apple should really try to provide MORE new product announcements. The G4 cube, SMP-G4, and new iBook being announced earlier by Apple themselves could've sent their stock up a little. However, Apple chose to keep mum, and eventually about 26 or so "John Doe's" (more like angered designers and engineers sick of Apple's current lackluster PR strategy) leaked the news to Mac sites. As a result, we learned about the new products three weeks before the almighty Steve Jobs wanted us to know, and Apple was criticized for keeping such popular products under wraps. As a result, Apple is leading a witch hunt against review sites, while observers are laughing at the bumbling Apple PR staff, trying to pin laughable accusations on people they can't even name.
Personally, I think that Steve Jobs is the epitome of Metallica's "King Nothing." Doesn't he comply with almost all of the lyrics of that song?
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
why can't they release something without a blasting marketing campaign?
That was their business plan for the early '90s. Which is one of many reasons they almost went out of business.
It's not the fans that Steve Jobs doesn't want to know what Apple is doing. It's the competitors who, if they would find out what Apple is planning, would announce that you should what 3 more years because MS^H^H, er the competition, is going to be releasing the exact same thing, but better.
I'm sure that if Steve Jobs had a way of letting the fans know about developments without the "competitors" being able to make claims that would cause non-fans to not buy Apples products, he'd do that. But I think for know, if you really want Apple to be successful for you, you need to support Apple and work with them.
-BrentIn fact, they must learn how to become even more fanatical, during the time that they are in 'exile' from Apple.
Rader
Considering how long Apple has been hyping this never-quite-released OS on its own website, I'm sure they're just trying to get rid of competition in the Apple/Mac rumor department.
I do not have a signature
just a thought
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
If Apple wants to keep Rumours (I'm Canadian, that's the way we spell it here, deal with it) under wraps they should work on doing it in house, not in the public eye. Let's face it, there's really no way for them to come out of this looking like the good guy - even more so if they actually yank thier ads from these publications.
Another thing to keep in mind is that many of these publications' sole reason for existance is to report computer industry NEWS. Rumours are news. Trying to influence the reporting of any news by using advertising dollars is just plain wrong. I truly hope that the media can stand thier ground against Apple.
thehermit
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Brilliant strategy, simply brilliant.
No paid-subscription magazine should go for this. Cancel your subcription to any magazine that does. They're not a magazine any more; they're an advertising mailer.
This is a case that Apple couldn't win
But you're forgetting the Second Golden Rule. Just so you remember:
- Act toward others as you'd have them act toward you.
- He who has the gold makes the rules.
Technology lawsuits are not won by right but by might. Whoever can buy the best champion (lawyers) will almost invariably win.<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
For the same reason Apple is not 'forced' to pay these people to put up advertising.
If the Site values editorial content over the money Apple pays it for ads, then they won't buckle. If they DO need apple that badly as a client, then they'll buckle (and so they should if their livleyhood depends on apple)
Currently there is no confirmation that Apple itself has given the nod for the action taken by *the advertisement agency that does their advertising*.
But even if it _is_ Apple behind the sting and not simply Chiat/Day working to protect it's own interests, I don't see why you lot should really care.
One bloke said that there's really nothing exciting when a company announces a new product... well go figure. That's because the rumour sites had it out the month before in ripped-out-the-guts detail. Perhaps if this _wasn't_ the case, a new product announcement would actully hold some excitement for fans.
The Mac rumour/news sites live for Apple, not the other way around. Fandome and support and 'getting out the message' is one thing, but it should always be about supporting the company. Although I'm sure some people think that's what they are doing, if a business has to question whether it's benefitting or hurting because of "issue B" then something isn't quite right.
I'm of a mind to think that if it is, in fact, Apple behind the "threat" then they are probably looking out for what is most important to them. That would be money, and that's tied to(guess who) it's paying consumers.
D
However, people have a natural right to 'discuss' things that 'might' happen. If I think apple is going to do somethign neat, I can talk about it all I like, and Apple shouldn't have a problem with it.
Of course, where Apple spends it's advertising money is completely up to apple.
A possible explanation:
In other news today, Apple Computer Corporation acted on its "Think Different"(tm) marketing campaign by attacking Apple rumor web sites. Most people believe that you should support your supporters, but Apple thinks differently (tm). "We think that by threating to file lawsuits against and withdraw ad revenue from rumor sites we will build support for our products." said one Apple executive. "It's simple really, rumor sites are bad because although they build excitement about our products, it makes our big official announcements seem like old news and we don't like that. We aren't getting all the attention that we want. Even though we might make some people upset with our strong arm tactics, they will continue to be loyal to our fruity products. Our computers come in "grape," what's not to like about that?"
This is supposed to be great art. So why does it look like a bunch of decapitated naked people? -- Calvin
The rumors sites are some of Apple's best advertising.
Not only that, I think that the rumor readers and writers are some of Apple's most vigilant supporters. What happened when Metallica went after fans for downloading MP3s? Their fanbase suffered. But I don't even think my analogy is perfect. Downloading MP3s instead of buying the album is stealing. What's the harm of someone getting excited over a rumored product-to-be?
Maybe Apple thinks that somebody will take their ideas (they did have the lawsuit against the iMac clones). But how much competition does Apple have other than itself? An iMac and a Dell desktop (for example) are two different creatures for two different markets. All Apple has to do is get people to want their products. Know what does that? Seeing exciting new products on the rumor pages!
I'd be interested to hear Apple's economic justification for what they are doing. But going against their supporters seems like Apple is burning its last bridge.
-- "Complacency is a far more dangerous attitude than outrage." -Naomi Littlebear
1. We lost a little advertising, a small dent in the tens of thousands that came in from elsewhere.
2. The editors promptly knew that we were onto a real story, for once, and pursued it further.
3. AMC have the rest of my life to put up with me telling this story when it becomes relevant.
4. It polarized the entire newspaper, having the exact opposite effect they sought, which was a threat to silence us.
5. Shooting themselves in the foot, AMC lost what they were seeking when they sought our audience for advertisement in the first place.
Pondering what they were doing, I knew that in order for this conflict of interest/ethical breach to come at us from AMC, the whole company had to be pretty entrenched in it. Things like this are not the whims of a single Napoleonic complex--they are cultivated over time in a corporate "We're the most powerful thing on earth" environment. Fortunately, newspapers don't have that luxury, and take the brunt of this kind of pressure: Newspapers rely on reputation and credibility more than any corporation, and know it. Money is secondary to a decent editor, principles being first. Media cannot buckle to conflicts of interest which might seem commonplace to their advertisers, or they will dwindle into fluffy bundles of advertising. The better writers will move elsewhere, because they gots egos as big as China. I am sure AMC applied the same pressure to other advertising outlets, like the big city newspaper. Happens all the time, but the best newspapers (or websites) laugh at it. -Water Paradox
information is immaterial
Recently, there was an attempt to rip me a new one here when I implied it was a good thing AIM may be forced to open up. The argument was that it was a proprietary database, so why should others be granted access blablabla.. Isn't this somewhat similar? Shouldn't Apple be able to defend proprietary information and prevent it from being released until they chose? Isn't that their RIGHT? The premature release of this data takes the edge off their advertising campaigns and "hurts" their market strategy. I know there is a difference between a database, that could be considered an asset, and rumors/leaked advertising data, but they both have a dollar value that can be attached. Let the flame begin.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
Why would I be using a Microsoft operating system?
And I'll see whether it's an Intel or AMD chip. Heck, I might even scrape up enough budget for an Alpha.
Any of those choices are the lessr of evils...
I really hate that stupid phrase.
"Can you say X?"
Duh, well of course I can freaking say it.
How about:
"X?"
"Shades of X?"
"It seems to have the X nature"
"Teetering on the edge of the precipitous cliff over the chasm of X?"
After all he keeps on shooting himself (and apple) in the foot.
My Weblog
Isn't rumours a good thing infact because people will look more expected to it? Official Product Annoucements gets really boring during time, and why can't they release something without a blasting marketing campaign? Why don't they just release products, set out a rumour first, and then release suddenly without any warning? Surprise factor isn't always the best.
-Stskeeps, http://unrealircd.com
You can't promise to do a full page story on Mom's diner if they promise to buy an ad every week for the next month. It just can't work that way.
Hopefully these publications do business the same way.
________
You think that's bad Karma, what about this:
Karma 318070 (mostly the sum of moderation done to users comments)
What's up with this? My Karma is bouncing around at random (always in the 5, 6 or 7 digits though).
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Have you ever seen those mac "think different" commercials? Well it seems like Apple doesn't follow their advertising. This is just the same old crap all the other huge businesses pull, they are not any different from other corporate bullies. If Apple were smart they would realize that their user base is a lot more important than a few white lies and a couple of leaked secrets. They are the only ones looseing in this fiasco.
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
Apple's been flapping lately how launching desktop video, miniaturizing desktops, and reinventing the Operating System aren't the only things they've got up their sleeve (those free virtual reality authoring tools do look kinda interesting). Sure Stevie's arrogant but if they do have some cool beeans on the vine--from a straight business perspective it makes all the sense in the world for them to clamp down as tighter than a legal wad on the security. Certainly if the alternative costs them the ONLY edge in the market they have. Still can't escape the conclusion that they WANT a reputation for being silly hard-ass overprotective zealots.
See the full story: www.ridiculopathy.com
It's like when Hemos misspelled Babel Fish in a story.
(Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Don't forget the http://!)
TIP: If the URL is valid, the link will be black on the preview (you've been there) instead of blue-green (you haven't).
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
I can believe apple is wasting so much energy on rumors sites. They should conecentrate on getting OS X out... it was suppose to originally be out 6 months before win2000... they are turnin in to microsoft these days..... damn shame... miss my mac plus and ancient art of war
The problem was, it was "developers writing programs to run on next". Unfortunately, much like web banners that merely advertise other sites of banners, they could only sell to other next developers, because noone else bought them . . .
hawk
Anyway it is not unusual to use ad orders to try to influence the editorial. What I don't understand though is how are the small sites harming Apple. With most companies flouting vaporware every so often, these small sites are just taking it a step further - someone else puts out the vaporware for the company.
Founder's Camp
Founder's Camp
News for non-Nerds. Stuff that matters.
is to insure that apple will not get advertising in the serious press, but only the rah-rah rags. *That's* why it's a bad move for apple.
We're talking about journalism, and you're quoting Salon???
." before something such as the soviet invention of the automobile, or that the U.S. bombs canadian babies, or . . .
:)
A Salon citation to back something as "well known" for some reason makes me recall Pravda bits that began with, "it is will known that . .
I'd acknowledge that Salon is a half a step above the National Enquirer, but I wouldn't want to have to defend that position . . .
[It's editors response to something along the lines of, "your sole source was someone you know to be a pathological liar and has already admitted lying about this" was approximately, "it's ok because republicans are evil."
Honestly.
...), just stupid. 'Normal' consumers don't read rumor sites, and don't care if they are inacurate, and so rumor inacuraces do not affect Apple's sales. 'Early Adopters' (read: Screaming Tech Monkeys) do read rumor sites, but do so with large amounts of salt, and know that their will be inaccuracies.
Why does 'prime time' exist, and why is it harder/racier than afternoon/morning shows?
Why are 'soaps' so hard?
Because advertisers say so. They say to a network, "this is who I think is watching at this time, and so I am willing to pay X to advertise", or "I do not want my product associated with Y, as I think these other people are watching, who wouldn't approve"
This doesn't make Apple evil (there are other things that make Apple evil
It's just bad PR on Apple's part, and probably wouldn't have happened if the Evangelist was still arround. (You know, the Apple run list that spread Apple rumors) Even so, it only annoys people who read apple rumor sites, who are apparently not a large enough part of the market for Apple to care about.
Translation: Now that they are popular, they're ditching their geeky date to the prom, to go with the football player.
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
- See new article
- Quickly hit "reply"
- "First Post" OR "Hot Grits" OR "Natalie Portman"
- Read article
- Reword article, post revisions
- Watch karma roll in
- Wait until 15 posts are at +2 or more
- "Did anyone actually read the article?"
- Reword article, post revisions
- Hit reply
- "I'm probably going to get moderated down for this..."
- Reword article, post revisions
-- "Complacency is a far more dangerous attitude than outrage." -Naomi Littlebear
You're welcome.
That's right. If these magazines have the cajones to tell Apple to fuck off and keep printing the rumors I'll get a subscription for each one! Of course, I have no use for apple magazines so i'll just end up burning them or something, but still.
** Martin
-- Already pissed at Jobs for killing the Newton. . .
I can understand them wanting to stop untrue rumors, like someone claiming to be an employee of the company saying, for example, that a newly announced product will get delayed, when in reality, it won't. Things like that hurt the company and it's stock in illegitimate ways (this happened to a company I used to work for).
But when it comes to just basic anticipation rumors, sometimes, in to the benefit of the company to let these proliferate when they're true. It's free advertising for the company.
Just my two cents.
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"You spilled my egg... I needed that egg."
Whatever happened to the right to express your opinion, (including reciting what you've heard ("rumours")) without fear of reprisal? I think if Apple wants to threaten publications to conform to publishing news that suits their needs, then it's only satisfying to remember that consumers have the right to choose computers manufactured by a company without this anal-retentive marketing policy. I never did like Apple anyway...
...anyone remember a company called "Atari"...?
Anyone remember the way they treated the people who used their computers?
Is this a 68000 thing?
---------------------------
'No rational religion claims "supernatural" exists, that's an atheist slander.' - seen on slashdot.
has become that Apple hunts Mac enthusiasts down in the streets for sport. Don't they know that the only people interested in Mac rumors are Macintosh users? They're killing off their own customer base, for Pete's sake!!!!
This is about as wrong-headed a move as I can imagine. After all, the leading rumor sources (other than nonsense like my Rumor Mill columns) are Web sites which don't have print editions and don't sell ads to Apple. Not that they wouldn't sell banners to Apple, but Apple doesn't seem to think putting ads on Mac sites would do them any good. So who is going to lose income over this? In the end, Apple and Chiat/Day end up with egg on their collective faces -- and not one rumor monger will stop posting.
I'm sorry, but half the fun of being a geek is getting to speculate about what the next best thing is going to be...
Apple is shooting itself in the foot by not allowing rumors to spread... everybody knows to take these things with a grain of salt, but they still allow you to get excited about the product.
Doug
Venn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer? Ya! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Can't you guys do a little background research?
I guess it's clear then, keep publishing rumors. It is a classic loose loose situation. You loose the rumors and you loose apple as an advertiser evenually as your traffic dissapears. You keep publishing rumors and you loose apple as an advertiser right away.
Now what about editorial content. Will apple stop advertising in newspapers or magazines because they publish bad reviews of an apple product? How far could this go?
This is just an example of Steve Jobs being a little f*in baby and lashing out at anyone who tries to steal his thunder. I'm sorry Steve may have turned Apple around financially but I think he's destroying whatever good will Apple had left from the mac "faithful".
They should be happy to get the fsking publicity.
-Omar
This practice is certainly not followed universally.
It is standard practice for small newspapers to sell advertising packages that include guaranteed editorial coverage.
Larger publications also bend this rule a little bit; it's called custom publishing. If an advertiser wants a special issue of a magazine produced, the can enter an arrangement with the publisher where they supply all of the advertising content and the editorial content is tailored to their needs. Publications who care about advertising influence end up being really careful in this situation to ensure that there is a divide between the editorial and advertising staffs.
In the network television work, the barriers between the editorial and business sides are flagrantly broken. Look at the CBS News coverage of survivor or ABC News coverage of Disney properties.
In an editorial, MacWeek discussed their reasoning in dropping Mac the Knife, MacWeek's rumor column. While the column listed several reasons for dropping the column, I believe that Mac the Knife's on advertising certainly had an affect.
Some magazines, such as Ms. and Consumer Reporter, will not accept advertising so that there is never a link between editorial content and advertising.
Finally, even where there is an explicit rule against advertising affecting the editorial side, the fact is that for most publications, if the editorial content angers the advertisers too much the editorial staff will be changed. In addition, advertising generally pays the editorial staff's salaries. The editorial staff knows this.
--Sam
Bad Karma (.net) is a Mechwarrior information site, they have nothing to do with Apple. Why do they have to do with this?
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
I fail to understand the whole concept of karma employed here. Increasingly it's being used like a void pointer, cast any damn thing to karma.
I am from India, with good knowledge of the three disciplines of salvation of soul and one of the paths is through karma i.e. do your job well, forget about the complicated and winding worship (bhakti) route. Across reincarnations your karma shall follow you and you will pay the consequences (like it or not). Good karma make you a good person and eventually you'd be done with it and land up in a nice place that probably is heaven. Heave, BTW, has alcohol (som), female dancers (apsaras) et al - not a bad place if you ask me.
Now what the hell has this kind of concept got to do with a computer company, an ad agency and a publication - it's a fuckin' business deal and it's details. Ugg. (did I forget to pick a copy of USA - terms and definitions at the immigration?)
What's the harm of someone getting excited over a rumored product-to-be?
Plenty.
You have to realize that Apple market is much different than than of Dell's or VA's. The surprise factor is a significant catalyst. Do you think the iMac would have still would have received front page headlines if details and/or screenshots of it had leaked out three weeks prior to it's introduction? What about the announcement of the Microsoft investment?
Additionally, as several other people have pointed out, there's the "wait and see" problem. If user a is about to buy a powerbook, but sees that new models are coming out in three months, he may wait. Of course, the new models may actually come out in six months. The rumor sites don't really know. But in the meantime, Apple has lost sales.
It's not like most of the rumor sites are "information for the people" champions. Many of them are for-profit businesses.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
As Salman Rushdie once said, if they try to silence you, sing louder. All tech publications, online and off, should immediately start reprinting Apple rumours and speculation. What's Apple going to do? Stop advertising everywhere? Or conversely, in response to the spirit in which this outrageous threat has been issued, all publications should stop talking about Apple period. No more regurgitation of self-serving press-releases as news, no more bullshit corporate spin as commentary, no more free advertising in the form of product reviews. What's Apple going to do then? Drop on its corporate knees and start begging for support like it did during the dark years. I think Slashdot should from this point forward replace the Apple icon in its stories with a photo of Steve Jobs in Stalin's moustache. He's better than Bill, alright--even a better power-drunk, paranoid Tyrant.
Rumour sites are what get the hype going, people salivating, and the media interested and pumped.
No, that's what the media events are for.
Steve Jobs is a control freak who while being good at getting people focused and directed, has proven time and again to be bad for the long term interests of the company.
You're kidding, right? Apple has pretty much only done well (mindshare, interest, profits, innovative products) while Jobs has been in charge. Had Jobs not been there, Jonathan Ives (head of industrial design) probably would have left, and Apple would still be chasing an OS strategy that would force all developers to rewrite their software from scratch.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
That's MacOS Rumors and macrumors.com. Two rumor sites that are Mac-oriented.
I'm not condoning Apple's actions over this, they've been heavy-handed and way too zealous in what basically amounts to a "getting your own back" campaign against sites whose job is to report this kind of stuff.
But still, you can see where they're coming from in wanting to keep information to themselves. There have been several cases in computing history where plans have changed, and a vast circulation of rumours means that the company can end up looking bad for not having done something they'd never wanted to announce.
And when you get rumours flying around, as the net is so good for doing, it becomes next to impossible to separate the true ones from the false ones, and again this can make the company look bad, especially if the rumours are malicious. These rumours are a great way of influencing things like stock prices, and the net has already shown us that a mere rumour spread online can cause stocks to plummit or climb. What company is really going to want to the at the whim of that?
But still, Apple really needs to stop being so vindictive about this. All they're doing is making themselves look like tyrants, a problem they've had in the past. If they relaxed a little, I'm sure things wouldn't be so bad - every time Apple blows up, it draws attention to the rumours...
Bad Karma, and a big mistake. The rumors sites are some of Apple's best advertising.
I am not the Apple fan that I once was, but a few years ago, when everyone was still saying "Won't be long now before Apple dies," I was hearing other tunes from.... the rumors sites. They're some of the biggest supporters. They print the good news that everyone wants to beleive. They provide hints of things to come, soon, enticing fans to imagine and beleive in and most of all _eagerly anticipate_ them. Pop stars and politicians could take publicity lessons from the Apple Rumor Press.
And the rest of the people, who Steve Jobs wants to "Wow" and "Surprise"? The untamed masses who are just getting a computer? They don't read the sites, Steve. Your secrets are safe. The fans visit the rumor mills; most people don't. The fans will check your cool stuff anyway. The average consumer will be intruiged with your suprises. It's OK. Leave the rumor sites alone. Heck, use them like politicians use the press... leak info selectively. But don't sue them. Good grief.
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
On the other hand, Apple is no longer about to go under, they are competing to be one of the largest hardware companies in the world (up there will Dell, even), they make good machines that get rid of the model to model proprietary differences of the past, families can get hooked up to the internet with a comptuer that is easy to use and doesn't have shit hardware (like those compaqs they sell at wallmart) for around 800 bucks.... so maybe the lesson to be learned (and was learned by Jobs) is that you have to be an arrogant jerk who puts pressure on competetors and partners ala Bill Gates in order to dominate the market.
Although I don't like all of his tactics, I wouldn't be typing this on a Mac if Jobs hadn't been using them.
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When is Apple going to realize that their fans are all they have left! Their marketshare isn't exactly exploding... and the only way they can get new customers is through their (once) loyal fanbase.
I have used Mac since Classic II. I was faithful through the PowerPC and Quadras phase... then something changed. I realized what their plan was. They wanted to the be Microsoft of proprietary hardware. They wanted to make it extremely difficult for new companies to clone mac, develop hardware for macs, and even have software created for macs. So, at the end of Highschool I went PC all the way... and never looked back... (although I do have a powerpc at my desk right now for testing purposes, doh)
Apple is the Microsoft that lost....
Cd
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