Damn you guys are too clever for yourown good. I honestly thought that using a jpg to fragment the pixel changes would stop image processing. However - I have a cunning plan that will stop this happening next competition! {:-) For every correct pixel we change, we'll also change an incorrect one to a different value - diff that!
Well, Ive been reading through the comments, some interesting ideas and stuff, but I had to reply to this. NEVER will any of my companies do ANY email farming. We have mailing lists that you have to explicitly subscribe to, and every email allows you to unsubscribe. We dont 'add people in' you can only get onto our lists by requesting it. We dont sell our information. Its just not what we do. I for one hate the spam I get, why on earth would I encourage it?
If you plan to play on Linux, make sure you either send in your registration card with windows scribbled out and Linux handwritten in, or buy from http://www.tuxgames.com/details.cgi?gameref=115 where we will report each sale as a Linux sale.
In Germany, they have a similar system. All games need rating and you can only sell to people who can prove they are old enough to play them.
However what it comes down to is that small game makers can't aford to pay the fees to have a game rated just to sell it in one area, and the online stores cant prove the age of the person buying the game.
People just buy the games online elsewhere, and you are left with the German retailers losing business and web stores in neighbouring countries are laughing as the underage kids buy the games from them instead!
SCO can bite me as they arent getting a penny from us. I'll spend every penny my companies have to defend our rights under the GPL and run my company into the ground doing it, before I let them have a penny of it.
I call on other Linux companies to make their claim to Linux. Tell SCO that you wont be bullied!
Actually thats not what the patent would do. It would be applicable to people making clones or emulators of directx. Examine the gif patent as an example. The patent wasnt applied to individuals using gifs, it was applied to companies or groups making products that handled gifs. The end user wasnt affected in any way, the companies and groups were the ones being made to pay license fees. If that happens in directx, then you have wine having to pay $10 per copy of wine that is downloaded or something along those lines, then suddenly you have an unsustainable wine project, or you have a wine project that cannot fully emulate. Either way, you are screwed. The only way round it is to a) break the law and ignore the patent issue, or b) go native.
In the short term ytou are correct, it is very profitable in the short term. But in the long term it will kill Linux applications and gaming.
It will always be easier to emulate than to port natively, which is what makes it so attractive to do. Right now, emulation is a lot less stable and reliable than native, but as time goes on, it will improve, obviously. But what happens when emulation has won and the native companies are dead? Well, then everything will be emulated.
Yeah and if the emulation runs flawlessly that isnt a problem right? Its OK that Linux is living on the API of its competitor (never a good idea), bevcause we can just emulate that API and anything they can do, we can copy. Right?
Wrong.
It would take about 10 minutes for Microsoft to kill Wine(x) using some kind of patent law. Add some cool new feature into directx 10, patent it, and suddenly nothing that uses Dx10 will work under emulation. This has already had an effect on drivers, where some of the patented OpenGL features couldnt be used in the open source OGL drivers.
Suddenly new games (and applications) arent going to run on emulation any more so we will have to turn to the porting companies to supply them. Hold on, what porting companies? Theyve all gone. By this time the barriers to entry are even higher (you should see them now, its NOT easy to start right now, and its only going to get harder).
Im looking long term. When I look at wine longterm I see a dead end, and I see business failure. When I look at native long term I see a REALLY tough road, but I see a road that doesnt dead end. Personallly, I'd prefer to stick around and keep producing products for Linux, than make a quick fast buck and then be out of business.
I know of one game, wizardry 8 I believe it was, that was due to be ported, but then when the porting company that had the agreement discovered it worked 'well enough' in winex, they cancelled the contract. More imformation here.
Transgaming have said they will not actively promote compatability with games that have native ports, but this is a lie, their comments made on the Majesty section of their website make it quite plain they consider they are superior to native and they intend to beat native out of the market.
They are determined to ensure that Linux has second rate products and are a slave to Windows for our products and our api.
At Tux Games, we are more determined to ensure Linux has quality products than making a quick buck. We have turned down the opportunity to stock winex compatable games on our store, and we have invested heavily in producing native ports of games through our LGP branch. Native is the only future trhat leaves Linux viable and self-sufficient.
Transgaming have already shown that they dont really care about the Linux market, having ported a game from mac to windows without even bothering to make a Linux version.
For anyone who wants to make sure your MOH game gets registered as a Linxu sale, instead of a Windows sale, order from Tux Games, and as always we ensure that the rights owners know that your sale was for Linux.
Order it from Tux Games to ensure your purchase is registered as a Linux sale, and help the Linux gaming industry grow!
Yes you can order it from elsewhere, it may even be a little cheaper from some places, but your sale will get chalked up as a Windows sale, the more known Linux sales there are, the more this will help efforts to get future games ported to Linux.
For anyone wanting to install easilly, when the final version is released, Tux Games will be selling a fully functional Linux version that includes the boxed product plus an installer CD that does all the work for you. Here is the product details link.
You cannot base a moral arguement on a financial basis, they are two different things.
Patenting things is financially sound. Patenting medications is morally wrong.
You cannot have ANY moral justification for saying 'Yes, I invented a cure for what is going to kill you, but you cant have it because you cant afford it'. If you can find ANY *moral* justification to that, then go to the top of the class.
The correct procedure for this would be well funded government research, given out for free to the population that needs it (like the UK, except for the well funded bit). The US has the best healthcare research in the world, and one of the worst methods for distributing is to the public. There are more things in the world than money, people should be allowed to live before companies can profit from their deaths.
Thanks for picking this one up, its always nice to hear someone say we have a reputation for being honest and solid. Thanks! {:-)
Yes, you are correct, we have paperwork ready for people that are chosen for the project. We would never ask people to work without an agreement in writing, otherwise, it is as dangerous for us as for them.
In effect, the agreement structre will be
LGP will have an agreement with the dev company (which will be a legal entity, I will have a UK Limited company formed for the development).
LGP will pay that company.
That company will have agreements with the developers. The developers, having 90% stake of the company, can then completely control the money received without LGP being able to interfere.
LGP cannot fail to pay that company, we would be in breach of contract and the company could take LGP to court and claim the money. It will be watertight. The documents are drawn up already.
And as a final note, it is *so* not in our interests to screw anyone over. The long term goal of this is to help form a self-sustaining game development company that is Linux-friendly. This will give is all more games, most likely published through LGP, so we would be stabbing ourselves in the foot if we screwed the group over.
heh, no worries, if I cant take constructive comments Im in the wrong business {:-)
I agree completely with what you are saying. Comittees rarely get to the end, they dont inspire. Thats why we want people to make a game THEY want to make, rather than we tell them 'make this game'. Hopefully the goal of the game of their dreams will be enough.
Planning is VERY important, that is why the big initial contribution from LGP will be an experienced project manager, who previously worked as a project manager at Oracle (OK not always the best reccomendation but they are good at their job).
This will help with the planning, no development will be done until they know what they are making, I couldnt agree more that lack of planning kills a project. 'Hey, lets do STUFF' is never enough {:-)
Thanks for the good wishes, its appreciated. Its gonna take a lot of luck, and a lot of hard work from everyone, but I think we can do it. If we go down, we'll go down fighting {:-)
You are right, the Linux market pays less money than other game markets. But, the fact is this. I started LGP cos I am a gamer and because I am a Linux user. I dont do it to make me rich, I do it because I am getting games for the platform of my choice.
This project has the option, they can also make their game for windows, consoles, anything. They have that choice. LGP has contacts in windows publishing houses to pretty much guarantee we can get them a good windows publisher too. The only restiction is - it must work on Linux - not exclusively on Linux.
The developers will be the ones to decide on the type of game, and then as soon as it is appropriate we will get onto finding artists, musicians and the like. The time of WHEN we do this is not fixed, it is for the developers to decide, and LGP will advise them to th ebest of our ability.
If they want artists and mucicians in right at the start, then thats what they get. Their call.
LGP is a guide here, not a master, they have creative freedom and decision-making freedom. We just nudge occasionally {:-)
You have some good points so I'll try and answer them.
The developers will all pretty much have one motivation - to create good Linux games. That will be a good starting point. Some of them will want to be in it for the money, some for the creativity. But the goal will be the same. Differences apart from that can sometimes be bad, sometimes be good for teamwork. You never can tell, it is the risk we all take starting a new company with new people.
LGP cannot simply pull the whole team out. We cannot pull any member out unless HALF of the team requests it. If the whole team is messing up and not putting their back into it, then we can tell them that they need to improve or they risk not getting a publishable product at the end.
The only direct leadership we will play is to supply a project manager to the group, to help them stay organised.
I agree 100% that passion is more important than someone looking for a paycheck, which is why we feel that this is a good thing. People applying for this will know they dont get paychecks every week, they are going to have to create something good first. They get out of it what they put into it. Schmoe looking for a paycheck wont even apply.
As for you rlast point, yes, if you have a good game, come tell us about it, we'll look seriously at any serious proposition we are offered.
Yes, that is one way of doing it, but, then a lot of people may do lots of work for no return, and that doesnt seem fair. One of the goals of LGP is that people get compensated for their work, and if 9 out of 10 groups that made a game get rejected, that would suck for those groups.
LGP will be supplying an experienced project manager to help the group with this (at our expense).
10 hours a week is a reasonable commitment, its 2 hours every evening or a long day at the weekend, its somethign that people can do and keep a job too. with a good project manager and realistic deadlines, this isnt an issue
We are not asking people to work for free. The situation is the same as when ANY game company is started, but we are giving the people assistance and guaranteed publishing.
Imagine, if you start up a game development company with some of your friends, you wouldnt expect to be able to go up to a game publisher and say 'hey, pay me every week and I'll make you a game'. In fact you'd be VERY lucky if even they reply to your phone call when you offered them a completed game.
The people working on this project will be starting a new company, but instead of the uncertainty, the 'is it worth our carrying on' - they can KNOW that they have a publisher, and they can KNOW it will get onto the shelves if they can get it finished.
Yes, its a risk, but it could pay them bigtime - if it works.
Slashdot Mirror
We always take the time to port properly. Often that can mean it takes a lot longer than we would like to do a port, however, we never take shortcuts.
Damn you guys are too clever for yourown good. I honestly thought that using a jpg to fragment the pixel changes would stop image processing. However - I have a cunning plan that will stop this happening next competition! {:-) For every correct pixel we change, we'll also change an incorrect one to a different value - diff that!
Well, Ive been reading through the comments, some interesting ideas and stuff, but I had to reply to this.
NEVER will any of my companies do ANY email farming. We have mailing lists that you have to explicitly subscribe to, and every email allows you to unsubscribe. We dont 'add people in' you can only get onto our lists by requesting it. We dont sell our information.
Its just not what we do. I for one hate the spam I get, why on earth would I encourage it?
If you plan to play on Linux, make sure you either send in your registration card with windows scribbled out and Linux handwritten in, or buy from http://www.tuxgames.com/details.cgi?gameref=115 where we will report each sale as a Linux sale.
In Germany, they have a similar system. All games need rating and you can only sell to people who can prove they are old enough to play them.
However what it comes down to is that small game makers can't aford to pay the fees to have a game rated just to sell it in one area, and the online stores cant prove the age of the person buying the game.
People just buy the games online elsewhere, and you are left with the German retailers losing business and web stores in neighbouring countries are laughing as the underage kids buy the games from them instead!
Tux Games and Linux Game Publishing are using Linux servers
SCO can bite me as they arent getting a penny from us. I'll spend every penny my companies have to defend our rights under the GPL and run my company into the ground doing it, before I let them have a penny of it.
I call on other Linux companies to make their claim to Linux. Tell SCO that you wont be bullied!
Actually thats not what the patent would do. It would be applicable to people making clones or emulators of directx. Examine the gif patent as an example. The patent wasnt applied to individuals using gifs, it was applied to companies or groups making products that handled gifs. The end user wasnt affected in any way, the companies and groups were the ones being made to pay license fees.
If that happens in directx, then you have wine having to pay $10 per copy of wine that is downloaded or something along those lines, then suddenly you have an unsustainable wine project, or you have a wine project that cannot fully emulate. Either way, you are screwed. The only way round it is to a) break the law and ignore the patent issue, or b) go native.
In the short term ytou are correct, it is very profitable in the short term. But in the long term it will kill Linux applications and gaming.
It will always be easier to emulate than to port natively, which is what makes it so attractive to do. Right now, emulation is a lot less stable and reliable than native, but as time goes on, it will improve, obviously. But what happens when emulation has won and the native companies are dead? Well, then everything will be emulated.
Yeah and if the emulation runs flawlessly that isnt a problem right? Its OK that Linux is living on the API of its competitor (never a good idea), bevcause we can just emulate that API and anything they can do, we can copy. Right?
Wrong.
It would take about 10 minutes for Microsoft to kill Wine(x) using some kind of patent law. Add some cool new feature into directx 10, patent it, and suddenly nothing that uses Dx10 will work under emulation. This has already had an effect on drivers, where some of the patented OpenGL features couldnt be used in the open source OGL drivers.
Suddenly new games (and applications) arent going to run on emulation any more so we will have to turn to the porting companies to supply them. Hold on, what porting companies? Theyve all gone. By this time the barriers to entry are even higher (you should see them now, its NOT easy to start right now, and its only going to get harder).
Im looking long term. When I look at wine longterm I see a dead end, and I see business failure. When I look at native long term I see a REALLY tough road, but I see a road that doesnt dead end. Personallly, I'd prefer to stick around and keep producing products for Linux, than make a quick fast buck and then be out of business.
Transgaming have said they will not actively promote compatability with games that have native ports, but this is a lie, their comments made on the Majesty section of their website make it quite plain they consider they are superior to native and they intend to beat native out of the market.
They are determined to ensure that Linux has second rate products and are a slave to Windows for our products and our api.
At Tux Games, we are more determined to ensure Linux has quality products than making a quick buck. We have turned down the opportunity to stock winex compatable games on our store, and we have invested heavily in producing native ports of games through our LGP branch. Native is the only future trhat leaves Linux viable and self-sufficient.
Transgaming have already shown that they dont really care about the Linux market, having ported a game from mac to windows without even bothering to make a Linux version.
For anyone who wants to make sure your MOH game gets registered as a Linxu sale, instead of a Windows sale, order from Tux Games, and as always we ensure that the rights owners know that your sale was for Linux.
Order it from Tux Games to ensure your purchase is registered as a Linux sale, and help the Linux gaming industry grow!
Yes you can order it from elsewhere, it may even be a little cheaper from some places, but your sale will get chalked up as a Windows sale, the more known Linux sales there are, the more this will help efforts to get future games ported to Linux.
Not all Nottingham companies are evil!
{:-)
For anyone wanting to install easilly, when the final version is released, Tux Games will be selling a fully functional Linux version that includes the boxed product plus an installer CD that does all the work for you.
Here is the product details link.
Erm,
That kind of arguement is stupid.
You cannot base a moral arguement on a financial basis, they are two different things.
Patenting things is financially sound. Patenting medications is morally wrong.
You cannot have ANY moral justification for saying 'Yes, I invented a cure for what is going to kill you, but you cant have it because you cant afford it'. If you can find ANY *moral* justification to that, then go to the top of the class.
The correct procedure for this would be well funded government research, given out for free to the population that needs it (like the UK, except for the well funded bit). The US has the best healthcare research in the world, and one of the worst methods for distributing is to the public. There are more things in the world than money, people should be allowed to live before companies can profit from their deaths.
You arent the first person to say that {:-)
Its a joystick, and not THAT kind of joystick {:-)
The logo does have a nickname at the office, I'll leave it to your imagination...
Thanks for picking this one up, its always nice to hear someone say we have a reputation for being honest and solid. Thanks! {:-)
Yes, you are correct, we have paperwork ready for people that are chosen for the project. We would never ask people to work without an agreement in writing, otherwise, it is as dangerous for us as for them.
In effect, the agreement structre will be
LGP will have an agreement with the dev company (which will be a legal entity, I will have a UK Limited company formed for the development).
LGP will pay that company.
That company will have agreements with the developers. The developers, having 90% stake of the company, can then completely control the money received without LGP being able to interfere.
LGP cannot fail to pay that company, we would be in breach of contract and the company could take LGP to court and claim the money. It will be watertight. The documents are drawn up already.
And as a final note, it is *so* not in our interests to screw anyone over. The long term goal of this is to help form a self-sustaining game development company that is Linux-friendly. This will give is all more games, most likely published through LGP, so we would be stabbing ourselves in the foot if we screwed the group over.
heh, no worries, if I cant take constructive comments Im in the wrong business {:-)
I agree completely with what you are saying. Comittees rarely get to the end, they dont inspire. Thats why we want people to make a game THEY want to make, rather than we tell them 'make this game'. Hopefully the goal of the game of their dreams will be enough.
Planning is VERY important, that is why the big initial contribution from LGP will be an experienced project manager, who previously worked as a project manager at Oracle (OK not always the best reccomendation but they are good at their job).
This will help with the planning, no development will be done until they know what they are making, I couldnt agree more that lack of planning kills a project. 'Hey, lets do STUFF' is never enough {:-)
Thanks for the good wishes, its appreciated. Its gonna take a lot of luck, and a lot of hard work from everyone, but I think we can do it. If we go down, we'll go down fighting {:-)
You are right, the Linux market pays less money than other game markets. But, the fact is this. I started LGP cos I am a gamer and because I am a Linux user. I dont do it to make me rich, I do it because I am getting games for the platform of my choice.
This project has the option, they can also make their game for windows, consoles, anything. They have that choice. LGP has contacts in windows publishing houses to pretty much guarantee we can get them a good windows publisher too. The only restiction is - it must work on Linux - not exclusively on Linux.
You are making a VERY good point.
The developers will be the ones to decide on the type of game, and then as soon as it is appropriate we will get onto finding artists, musicians and the like. The time of WHEN we do this is not fixed, it is for the developers to decide, and LGP will advise them to th ebest of our ability.
If they want artists and mucicians in right at the start, then thats what they get. Their call.
LGP is a guide here, not a master, they have creative freedom and decision-making freedom. We just nudge occasionally {:-)
You have some good points so I'll try and answer them.
The developers will all pretty much have one motivation - to create good Linux games. That will be a good starting point. Some of them will want to be in it for the money, some for the creativity. But the goal will be the same. Differences apart from that can sometimes be bad, sometimes be good for teamwork. You never can tell, it is the risk we all take starting a new company with new people.
LGP cannot simply pull the whole team out. We cannot pull any member out unless HALF of the team requests it. If the whole team is messing up and not putting their back into it, then we can tell them that they need to improve or they risk not getting a publishable product at the end.
The only direct leadership we will play is to supply a project manager to the group, to help them stay organised.
I agree 100% that passion is more important than someone looking for a paycheck, which is why we feel that this is a good thing. People applying for this will know they dont get paychecks every week, they are going to have to create something good first. They get out of it what they put into it. Schmoe looking for a paycheck wont even apply.
As for you rlast point, yes, if you have a good game, come tell us about it, we'll look seriously at any serious proposition we are offered.
Yes, that is one way of doing it, but, then a lot of people may do lots of work for no return, and that doesnt seem fair. One of the goals of LGP is that people get compensated for their work, and if 9 out of 10 groups that made a game get rejected, that would suck for those groups.
As long as the deadlines are realistic.
LGP will be supplying an experienced project manager to help the group with this (at our expense).
10 hours a week is a reasonable commitment, its 2 hours every evening or a long day at the weekend, its somethign that people can do and keep a job too. with a good project manager and realistic deadlines, this isnt an issue
We have resellers round the world and have products in physical packages already. The game will sell in a DVD-style box, same as many newer games do.
erm, we pay them 70% of all royalties and they get 90% stake in the company itself. How is that not paying them anything?
We are not asking people to work for free. The situation is the same as when ANY game company is started, but we are giving the people assistance and guaranteed publishing.
Imagine, if you start up a game development company with some of your friends, you wouldnt expect to be able to go up to a game publisher and say 'hey, pay me every week and I'll make you a game'. In fact you'd be VERY lucky if even they reply to your phone call when you offered them a completed game.
The people working on this project will be starting a new company, but instead of the uncertainty, the 'is it worth our carrying on' - they can KNOW that they have a publisher, and they can KNOW it will get onto the shelves if they can get it finished.
Yes, its a risk, but it could pay them bigtime - if it works.