I mean I run nix, but still MS isn't all that bad. They do have some damn good products out there. Rich in features, usability, security holes, etc....
i mean, i remember getting windows updates when i was running win95 boxes and having about a gazillion language packs as "recommended updates" available for download...
Tarballs are not effective "package management systems." With tarballs, is there a central location in which you can view all of your installed programs? View dependancies of programs upon other programs? Install programs in a matter of seconds rather than waiting 30 minutes for things to configure and compile? Hell no.
And then realize that many distributions don't adhere to the same directory structures (i.e./usr/local/bin,/opt,/data1,/someNewRandomDir)... --prefix is nice, but when running configure you frequently need to specify lib paths, etc...joe user isn't going to be able to do that.
Take that on top of the fact that most authors don't include a "make uninstall" option and then you should realize that there is no standard package management system.
I don't know why I bothered to respond to this post except to merely point out the obvious...
right, but i just meant that we need a standard package management system across ALL linux distros...and because we geeks are so hard to please we need to have the ability to build from source built into that...and because joe user doesnt even know what source is, we need to have binaries also...
so if other distros want to adopt and tweak apt, thats fine...it just has to be done...either that or games are going to have to start bundling a LOT more code for linux (basically duplicating libraries for its own purposes in a chrooted environment or something)...and thats not going to help developers embrace linux....
that's why we need linux to adopt a uniform package management system that can appease binary as well as source installations and solve/download dependencies...im looking your way gentoo...
" why buy expensive stuff when you can buy cheap crap, cancel the noise, and it's as good as the expensive stuff?"
Because the cheap crap isn't as good as the expensive stuff...it's cheap crap.
Also, Zalman components are not very expensive. $25 bucks for a heatsink and fan that provides great heat dissipation and runs completely quiet really isn't all that much money. Sure, you could spend $10 bucks on a cheapo heatsink and fan, but it wouldn't provide the same level of heat protection or noise reduction.
The most expensive thing that I purchased from Zalman was my 400W PSU that ran me around $90. Sure, that's expensive for a PSU, but it's worth it. I don't mind putting out an extra $150 bucks for a noiseless PC -- it's better than dealing with a loud PC because of cheap crap components. And newegg.com will RMA it if you don't like it. Newegg rocks.
lol what are you a man-page writer for the openbsd project or something:P
regardless, it sounds like you're contradicting yourself a bit. we both seem to agree that some man pages rock (like books, some more than others). and you say yourself you've got great openbsd books.
You said, "who needs books, when you have such fantastic man pages!?" Apparently you did.
If the manpages have all that you need, why would you consider the books that you own great, rather than just a rehash of the manpages? Clearly you have a reason for liking the book, or buying the book in the first place. perhaps the man pages didn't quite answer all of your questions? If it did, why didnt you just print out all the manpages?
Also, a novice openbsd user may not even know what the man pages are, sad as that may be...and if we want open source to grow, we should encourage newbies to venture into our world. It's easier for many people (though not myself) to pick up a book and start with page 1 than surf the net looking for info on how to use openbsd (or any other software, commercial or free)).
sure, all the information is available in the manpages, on mailing lists, faqs on the net, etc., but its nice to have it all in one book that you can consult whenever you need to.
and in my experiences i've noticed that man pages of commercial software are typically much better than free software (open source or not)...mainly because companies usually don't want to spend money on tech support when they could put out a half decent set of manpages...after all, you're not gonna be in business long if you make your clients surf the net or browse mailing lists for answers to their questions on how to use (not necessarily troubleshoot) their product.
If you buy one of those Zalman fan-shaped heatsinks it does depend on airflow within the case. If you are overclocking you really should have decent airflow. If not, and if the computer is stored in a cool environment, you should be fine.
Most Zalman heatinks (if not all) come with a fan, so you probably don't need to go out and get one (except for extra case fans if you are overclocking, which is practically useless nowadays). The fan provided is so quiet you can't hear it. Beats the hell outta Panaflo or anything else I've experienced. Zalman rocks.
I built my last PC with their components. When I powered up for the first time I freaked out because I saw the power light go on, but that was it. Then the BIOS came up, thank god. No noise at all...seriously. I mean, I expected quiet, but not noiseless...
I was extremely let down by my hard drive though. Considering Seagate had a great reputation for quiet hard drives, I figured I'd get a Seagate SATA hard drive...well their SATA drives are loud as heck when writing...
Not to mention the fact that, however good OpenBSD may be, there simply aren't enough commercial authors on the subject to really promote competition and encourage authors to put out *QUALITY* books.
But there are some companies that provide great man pages...Legato, for example.
Again, this is mainly documentation, such as "this command does this and has these options", whereas commercial books generally have that and ways to hack apart the product to get the job done, independant of the companies vision of their product.
I've read many books that say things like "Again, Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, has decided to deviate from the norm and bastardize protocol X -- so this is how you get it to work the way it SHOULD work"...you're typically not going to get that from the same company releasing the product, commercial or free...
But you would buy a book on a commercial Unix variant? Or Microsoft training? Etc.
Third-party books are frequently better than the documentation provided by the company, as the third-party is more apt to give you tips and tricks and hacks to get the job done, rather than going on about how great a product it is.
Within several hours of its official specifications being published there will be so many hacks and workarounds that it will make this completely moot.
When the whole world wants it for free, the whole world can get it for free. When will you corporate big-wigs learn that if we can see it, we can save it. So screw you all and work out a reason for us to WANT to give you more money (i.e. if you're worried about people saving TV shows and not buying the series on DVD, obviously be sure to include enough extras on DVD to make it worth our money).
comcast sucks big time. lots of areas still use 2 cables to get the damn signal (an A and a B line...).
they keep cutting good channels....i miss hot brooke burke on the "travel" channel =(
they did just recently implement that on-demand digital cable, but it really really sucks. frequently digital breakup and color loss are just some of the problems (the only way to restore it is to stop the feed and restart it again)...that is if you can even get access to it...during prime time you're lucky if you can "connect" because they didnt give it enough bandwidth...typical.
the signal sucks. when i move im getting the dish. can't get it now because of the location and renting policies disallow it.
the horribly-designed remote control is enough of a reason...the numpad buttons are annoyingly hard to press, because they are shaped like the numbers...sure 8 may be easy, but 1 is a pain in the arse.
this is regarding comcast in maryland, especially the dc metro area. time warner digital cable in manhatten rocks relative to comcast...
why can't we geeks just spread the word that people should claim that their computer was compromised and that a hacker loaded kazaa and all those copyrighted mp3s onto their computer?
seriously though, it does happen with ftp servers and mp3s and porn and warez...
then that could press the issue on a higher level of whether or not someone should be held accountable fo r the actions that are taken via their computer, and as the majority of the country (i.e. microsoft) is not ready to implement secure computings, it will all be thrown out.
so in summary, 1) hacking victims and copyright breakers get off scott-free and stick it to the man 2) people are more annoyed with microsofts lack of security and the hammer comes down on them yet again 3) microsoft pays the court off and everyone is happy
Be careful about statements like that. The Open Group could sue you for that...rightfully so. Mac OS X is not Unix. It's Unix-based. Whatever. FreeBSD rocks.
true. but it may be worth it for dvd+-rw drives, which hover around $100 on a good deal...
once the technology and cost efficiency is there, the cd-rw manufacturers may find it cheaper to switch over, but are going to die in the wake of dvds anyhow...
itunes isnt all that innovative. digital music library management apps has been around for a while. and an online music store isn't really a new idea either...just been on hold for a while because of those RIAA bastards.
it should be voted a good technology, but not the best. theres been a lot of cooler stuff being developed, like bulletproof glass car windows you can shoot (it seals back up) but people cant shoot through.
Actually, when I said I re-opened it and it looked all wacky, I meant I re-opened it immediately after saving in Open Office...so it's not really the way MSWord handles lists, but rather a bug.
And yeah, MSWord's list structure is FUBAR. I miss good ol' word perfect when there were html-esque tags...I wish people would use something like HTML using an extra tag as a page break...screw these closed formats.
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That seems to be the underlying theme in business these days *cough*SCO*cough*
I mean I run nix, but still MS isn't all that bad. They do have some damn good products out there. Rich in features, usability, security holes, etc....
But AOL is just plain bad! Agh!
i mean, i remember getting windows updates when i was running win95 boxes and having about a gazillion language packs as "recommended updates" available for download...
Tarballs are not effective "package management systems." With tarballs, is there a central location in which you can view all of your installed programs? View dependancies of programs upon other programs? Install programs in a matter of seconds rather than waiting 30 minutes for things to configure and compile? Hell no.
/usr/local/bin, /opt, /data1, /someNewRandomDir)... --prefix is nice, but when running configure you frequently need to specify lib paths, etc...joe user isn't going to be able to do that.
And then realize that many distributions don't adhere to the same directory structures (i.e.
Take that on top of the fact that most authors don't include a "make uninstall" option and then you should realize that there is no standard package management system.
I don't know why I bothered to respond to this post except to merely point out the obvious...
right, but i just meant that we need a standard package management system across ALL linux distros...and because we geeks are so hard to please we need to have the ability to build from source built into that...and because joe user doesnt even know what source is, we need to have binaries also...
so if other distros want to adopt and tweak apt, thats fine...it just has to be done...either that or games are going to have to start bundling a LOT more code for linux (basically duplicating libraries for its own purposes in a chrooted environment or something)...and thats not going to help developers embrace linux....
that's why we need linux to adopt a uniform package management system that can appease binary as well as source installations and solve/download dependencies...im looking your way gentoo...
and that is why there are quite a few games coming out with linux-based servers, but the clients are still win32 unfortunately.
" why buy expensive stuff when you can buy cheap crap, cancel the noise, and it's as good as the expensive stuff?"
Because the cheap crap isn't as good as the expensive stuff...it's cheap crap.
Also, Zalman components are not very expensive. $25 bucks for a heatsink and fan that provides great heat dissipation and runs completely quiet really isn't all that much money. Sure, you could spend $10 bucks on a cheapo heatsink and fan, but it wouldn't provide the same level of heat protection or noise reduction.
The most expensive thing that I purchased from Zalman was my 400W PSU that ran me around $90. Sure, that's expensive for a PSU, but it's worth it. I don't mind putting out an extra $150 bucks for a noiseless PC -- it's better than dealing with a loud PC because of cheap crap components. And newegg.com will RMA it if you don't like it. Newegg rocks.
lol what are you a man-page writer for the openbsd project or something :P
regardless, it sounds like you're contradicting yourself a bit. we both seem to agree that some man pages rock (like books, some more than others). and you say yourself you've got great openbsd books.
You said, "who needs books, when you have such fantastic man pages!?" Apparently you did.
If the manpages have all that you need, why would you consider the books that you own great, rather than just a rehash of the manpages? Clearly you have a reason for liking the book, or buying the book in the first place. perhaps the man pages didn't quite answer all of your questions? If it did, why didnt you just print out all the manpages?
Also, a novice openbsd user may not even know what the man pages are, sad as that may be...and if we want open source to grow, we should encourage newbies to venture into our world. It's easier for many people (though not myself) to pick up a book and start with page 1 than surf the net looking for info on how to use openbsd (or any other software, commercial or free)).
sure, all the information is available in the manpages, on mailing lists, faqs on the net, etc., but its nice to have it all in one book that you can consult whenever you need to.
and in my experiences i've noticed that man pages of commercial software are typically much better than free software (open source or not)...mainly because companies usually don't want to spend money on tech support when they could put out a half decent set of manpages...after all, you're not gonna be in business long if you make your clients surf the net or browse mailing lists for answers to their questions on how to use (not necessarily troubleshoot) their product.
If you buy one of those Zalman fan-shaped heatsinks it does depend on airflow within the case. If you are overclocking you really should have decent airflow. If not, and if the computer is stored in a cool environment, you should be fine.
Most Zalman heatinks (if not all) come with a fan, so you probably don't need to go out and get one (except for extra case fans if you are overclocking, which is practically useless nowadays). The fan provided is so quiet you can't hear it. Beats the hell outta Panaflo or anything else I've experienced. Zalman rocks.
...is to buy Zalman components ( http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/intro.htm )
I built my last PC with their components. When I powered up for the first time I freaked out because I saw the power light go on, but that was it. Then the BIOS came up, thank god. No noise at all...seriously. I mean, I expected quiet, but not noiseless...
I was extremely let down by my hard drive though. Considering Seagate had a great reputation for quiet hard drives, I figured I'd get a Seagate SATA hard drive...well their SATA drives are loud as heck when writing...
OpenBSD is freeware, not commercial software.
Not to mention the fact that, however good OpenBSD may be, there simply aren't enough commercial authors on the subject to really promote competition and encourage authors to put out *QUALITY* books.
But there are some companies that provide great man pages...Legato, for example.
Again, this is mainly documentation, such as "this command does this and has these options", whereas commercial books generally have that and ways to hack apart the product to get the job done, independant of the companies vision of their product.
I've read many books that say things like "Again, Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, has decided to deviate from the norm and bastardize protocol X -- so this is how you get it to work the way it SHOULD work"...you're typically not going to get that from the same company releasing the product, commercial or free...
But you would buy a book on a commercial Unix variant? Or Microsoft training? Etc.
Third-party books are frequently better than the documentation provided by the company, as the third-party is more apt to give you tips and tricks and hacks to get the job done, rather than going on about how great a product it is.
Within several hours of its official specifications being published there will be so many hacks and workarounds that it will make this completely moot.
When the whole world wants it for free, the whole world can get it for free. When will you corporate big-wigs learn that if we can see it, we can save it. So screw you all and work out a reason for us to WANT to give you more money (i.e. if you're worried about people saving TV shows and not buying the series on DVD, obviously be sure to include enough extras on DVD to make it worth our money).
no wait...that was silent bob. damn.
comcast sucks big time. lots of areas still use 2 cables to get the damn signal (an A and a B line...).
they keep cutting good channels....i miss hot brooke burke on the "travel" channel =(
they did just recently implement that on-demand digital cable, but it really really sucks. frequently digital breakup and color loss are just some of the problems (the only way to restore it is to stop the feed and restart it again)...that is if you can even get access to it...during prime time you're lucky if you can "connect" because they didnt give it enough bandwidth...typical.
the signal sucks. when i move im getting the dish. can't get it now because of the location and renting policies disallow it.
the horribly-designed remote control is enough of a reason...the numpad buttons are annoyingly hard to press, because they are shaped like the numbers...sure 8 may be easy, but 1 is a pain in the arse.
this is regarding comcast in maryland, especially the dc metro area. time warner digital cable in manhatten rocks relative to comcast...
kinda weird. i was hoping that sco.com would just stay down forever...
why can't we geeks just spread the word that people should claim that their computer was compromised and that a hacker loaded kazaa and all those copyrighted mp3s onto their computer?
seriously though, it does happen with ftp servers and mp3s and porn and warez...
then that could press the issue on a higher level of whether or not someone should be held accountable fo r the actions that are taken via their computer, and as the majority of the country (i.e. microsoft) is not ready to implement secure computings, it will all be thrown out.
so in summary,
1) hacking victims and copyright breakers get off scott-free and stick it to the man
2) people are more annoyed with microsofts lack of security and the hammer comes down on them yet again
3) microsoft pays the court off and everyone is happy
"Mac OS X is Unix."
Be careful about statements like that. The Open Group could sue you for that...rightfully so. Mac OS X is not Unix. It's Unix-based. Whatever. FreeBSD rocks.
total 1970s retro chic...
true. but it may be worth it for dvd+-rw drives, which hover around $100 on a good deal...
once the technology and cost efficiency is there, the cd-rw manufacturers may find it cheaper to switch over, but are going to die in the wake of dvds anyhow...
rather than funny? wacky mods.
itunes isnt all that innovative. digital music library management apps has been around for a while. and an online music store isn't really a new idea either...just been on hold for a while because of those RIAA bastards.
it should be voted a good technology, but not the best. theres been a lot of cooler stuff being developed, like bulletproof glass car windows you can shoot (it seals back up) but people cant shoot through.
I second that motion.
Actually, when I said I re-opened it and it looked all wacky, I meant I re-opened it immediately after saving in Open Office...so it's not really the way MSWord handles lists, but rather a bug.
And yeah, MSWord's list structure is FUBAR. I miss good ol' word perfect when there were html-esque tags...I wish people would use something like HTML using an extra tag as a page break...screw these closed formats.