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Israel's Finance Ministry To Distribute OpenOffice
dudeman2 writes "Israel National News reports that The Israel Finance Ministry said Sunday it will begin distributing Open Office for free as of next week. The ministry said that it would begin to distribute thousands of Open Office CD-ROMs at public computer centers and later on at community centers throughout the country, 'in a bid to reduce the technological gap between the rich and poor in Israel'."
Why should this relate to Linux? This is about Open Office. I don't see Linux mentioned in the slashdot headline.
Greetings,
Project Manager of Crystal Space (http://www.crystalspace3d.org). Support CS at http://tinyurl.com/cb3x4
"FINAL SOLUTION" is perhaps not the best choice of words. :)
Not to the start a flamewar on the subject of Arab-Israeli relations, but just imagine the impact if the U.S. gov't did this! I'd start getting .sxc as attachments instead of .doc! Then, the economically challenged could buy a cheap PC, or get one used from a church or something, and immediately make it more useful!
You are not the customer.
Can you guarentee what you said is true?
According to your past karma history, I doubt what you say.
Palestinian authority chairman Yasser Arafat yesterday refused to comment on rumours that the PLO and Hizbollah were on the point of rolling out KOffice across their organizations, saying that internal software licensing was confidential and denying that the Zionists had got the upper hand by preemptively striking against Microsoft.
Free Open Office??
Im going to Israel and stock up on these puppies and make tons of money selling it on Ebay like these guys.
'in a bid to reduce the technological gap between the rich and poor in Israel'.
And in a similar move City Officials in Hong Kong announced plans to widely distribute illegal CD-R cracked copies of Micrsoft Office 2003.
oh yeah, wait, that's already being done without a government sanction.
Will Bill now start paying the Israeli government to use Microsoft products?
I swear to god there is a secret message in those CAPS words...
Ya, like the AC noted, FINAL SOLUTIONs have never worked in Jewish peoples favor.
forget it.
If there is a Hebrew localization of Office, what is to stop a zillion people from pirating it? (like everywhere else)
From the Article:
The ministry is aware that despite the substantial savings accrued by not buying Microsoft licenses, there would also be considerable installment costs.
I have installed Open Office, Star Office, Word Perfect Office and Microsoft Office for various clients over the past two years. Maybe I'm missing something about a large scale deploy, but they all seem about the same for installation. I can even use SMS to drop the package automatically. Any idea what they are talking about?
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
Check the weather story (below on the main page) out - a very opiniated response from the same user is on there, and the phrase "FINAL SOLUTION" pops up gratuitously there also...
Name dropper. I just had lunch with Reuven Rivlin...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
The above sounds totally fabricated. FINAL SOLUTION is a giveaway ...
it's in my head
As a further note, the article mentions that Open Office is "for use on the Linux operating system", when in fact that's not the case at all. It's for use on EVERY operating system
(that's what the source is there for)
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
Mods, please check this poster's history. The post before they were a 'National Weather Service researcher', they have a history of trolling (base karma is -1).
Even their webpage (slaughter.edu) doesn't work!!!
The Scots got there first...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34593.html
it's in my head
If Microsoft can focus on LOWER licensing costs and improved Jewish language support, things may change and the GATES of communication will once again
the question is what does israel want? free software or good software. Do you want microsoft software instead but don't want it because it is too expensive? or do you don't want it because it doesnt meet your requirements? Also how does ms being a monopoly affect your decision since you easily switched to another software without suffering any effects from this monopoly you are so scared of
did you forget to take your meds?
Stop with the PC crap already! Why is everybody walking on egg-shells every time something related to Israel is being discussed? Why is every criticism of the state of Israel (like the brutal occupation of Palestine) being labelled as racism?
I for one am sick of it.
According to Mac OS X Hints Panther supports hebrew, arabic and farsi now.
Those random uppercase words make the text seem like it contains some kind of secret code or something.
"CHEAPER ROBUST SUSPENSION PUNISH FINAL SOLUTION MONOPOLY. MANY KERNEL CLIENT LOWER GATES."
Hmmmm....
giving people free cds is like giving them free gasoline. it is almost useless to anyone without a car.
did you forget to take your meds?
You son (daughter) of a bitch!
A lot of people will dismiss this as a "whoop-tee-doo" gesture and that would be an expected knee-jerk reaction. The thing here is that one must consider the source -- WHO is giving the stuff away. It's not the same as me burning a hundred OSS cd's and leaving them out for people to take. This is a GOVERNMENT entity doing this, and thus has more "umph" to it.
This is most definitely a good thing.
I already make the Norwegian government send me things in non-M$ format; it usually ends up in .pdf-format. They are required by law to do this for me. Mowahaha.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
Ministry of Finance sources told Globes that the decision could be reversed if Microsoft Israel shows willingness to compromise on its pricing policy for tens of thousands of computer stations at government offices.
Sounds to me like Isreal is just trying to force Microsoft into giving them a price break on Office.
Because the US is a threat to the free world.
...
I'm neo-liberal btw, but according to ignorant US citizens I guess everyone not in the US is a "commie"
it's in my head
My life is an open book ... up to a point.
"Unprovoked? They've been invaded ... that's one of the more provocative things I know of"
No, the Palestinians (and Arab allies) were the ones who invaded Israel repeatedly, forcing Israel to strike back by occupying the terrotories.
You have things backwards, like you read it in neo-nazi web sites.
will also not be using Apple software very much
Okay Apple zealots, it is time to shine!
Tell us non zealots (or make excuses) how Apple is really doing the right things here and we should all feel proud and thankful that Apple is doing us a favor by doing it this way. You get bonus points to include a statement about the iPod being the best "looking" portable audio player and why we should all buy it because of that.
"How is a Jew supposed to use an application if only the command line supports their tongue?"
I assume the tongue your refer to is Hebrew and it's worth pointing out that not all Jews' native tongue is Hebrew (and nor, in fact, do all Jews know Hebrew) and conversely, non-Jews may also require Hebrew support for whatever reason.
While Israel may be pretty much all Jews who would welcome Hebrew language support, there is a distinction between the Hebrew language and the Jewish religion (one is a language, one is a religion), and using the two interchangably just causes problems and confusion - so I suggest you pick your words more carefully.
Manta
Israel National News, or Arutz Sheva (Channel 7) as it's more commonly known, is a heavily right wing biased media outlet whose management was recently sentenced to various prison terms for operating an illegal radio station.
More details here
It's an odd source for tech news.
Don't try to bring sense into politics.
Do you march in blackshirt ralles every day, or only every weekend?
Who else would say that the "final solution" is totally fabricated.
I'd like to see some of the holocaust-denial "history" books you have written. Heil Hitler! (Neo-liberal? Nore like Neo-Nazi)
Israel has every right to protect herself by any means necessary just like your country would have the right to repel any Norwegian or Finnish attacks.
This is somewhat offtopic, but doesn't anyone think that Israel has bigger problems to deal with right now, instead of distributing OpenOffice.org CDs?
Because God knows that if you have troubles with your neighbors you should Immediately cease any attempt at doing silly little things like bettering your information infrastructure or freeing up valuble resources that were previously going to a monopoly that was selling you software that you couldn't use properly.
well, if it is a secret message, I don't understand it well... But, question : why do you want to hide a message on slashdot ?
Ploum.net.
Congratulations - you're _really_ stupid. Do you really believe anyone would misread what I wrote in a way that supports your accusations?
I've personally fought neo-nazis chasing a black guy whom I didn't know at all - I just happened to pass by. What have you done?
it's in my head
This is just a way to get people to try OOo in an effort to phase out MS. I think it is a good thing, and may ultimately make MS behave better is Israel, but it is not in any way, shape or form going to reduce the technological gap.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Parent's mirrror link redirects to some nasty images - ignore.
"Do you really believe anyone would misread what I wrote in a way that supports your accusations?"
It is not misreading. It is an accurate guess based on your other "kill the Jews, they deserve it, they aggressors!" neo-nazi ravings in other posts.
I've personally fought neo-nazis chasing a black guy whom I didn't know at all
So? You might like black guys, but you are in favor of the aggressors killing Jews. The Jews deserve nothing but the grave, right?
Yes I can come up with lots of examples. South America. Most countries. Last 50 years. The US has overthrown a lot of democratically elected governments who were a long way from "attacking" anyone.
... in the meantime you might want to read up on all the children killed today by cancer due to the US using depleted uranium weapons (creating a very toxic dust).
Can you tell me, since both Jews and Arabs are semites, why you bring up "anti semitic" when what I wrote has absolutely nothing to do with semites - only with the racist and occupant nation of Israel?
PS: Please let me know when you find any WMDs in Iraq. We're eagerly awaiting those finds
it's in my head
I'm going to shoot you now because you have Weapons of Mass Destruction.
A blog about stuff.
Despite the anti-jewish trolls (someone mod these jerks down PLEASE, this is a TECH page!!!!). The decision Israel made points out both advantage and disadvantages of OS like OpenOffice.org.
First, there are still compatibility issues. Although OpenOffice is a great office suite as is it still has problems converting from other formats. Therefore, even though it is free, government agencies that MUST access historical files in the original form do incur further expense in making an accurate file conversion.
Second, when you have a government agency that requires certain forms to be filled out electronically you have to make sure that the people filling out those forms have access to the programs to do this. This problem is exacerbated by the first concern previously mentioned.
Israel seems to have thought this through. That's why they're giving the disks away and also why they're biting the bullet and paying for properly converting the files (part of the installation process).
If OS software is going to ever really make any imprint in the government or any other institution we're going to have to be honest. OS may be cheap, but nothings truly free.
It doesn't matter what you wrap your emotions around, Reality is a brick wall specifically designed to scramble eggs
From the article -
If the decision is carried out, the government will save millions of shekels a year in licenses, but could face much higher costs in other areas.
I'm largely technology agnostic, but I think a large chunk of the savings would be a one-term investment. For example, the need to train and familiarize people with Linux and the setting up of support centers would need to be taken care of. Also, the need to establish a solid base of Linux usage, complete with folks for Linux administration at the various levels (simple Open-Office queries to updating security patches).
Once this investment is done in a well-organized manner, the rest of it would just fall into place - I guess the momentum would take care of that. Wouldn't be easy, but it has to start somewhere.
Translation. Since you are in favor of anti-semitism and terrorism and imperialism (as shown in your other messages which strongly support the extermination of Israelis), you probably hate the U.S. because it is a great help to the free world.
...
You probably REALLY hate the US now since it got in the eay of your hero Saddam. Saddam, who knew exactly what had to be done about Jews. (get real: the free world has never been threatened by the U.S.)
I'm neo-liberal btw, but according to ignorant US citizens I guess everyone not in the US is a "commie"
You are not any sort of liberal. Liberals have no tolerance for antisemitism.
A) It was for me.
B) The hell it does.
Yeah, damn Israeli agreesors. They went and attacked everyone of the Arab countries in 1948 when the Arabs were just wanting to live peacefully with the Jews. Then, in 1967, without any provocation, they attacked Egypt, Jordan, and Syria's 250,000 troops which were just enjoying the sun in the desert around Israel. Then, of all things, they choose their holiest day to invite Egypt into their lands for a little war. Those damn jewish terrorists have also been going around blowing up schoolbusses full of Palestinian children returning from their prayers for peace.
That is a lie. They have not engaged in aggression against any country. In contrast, several nations on Israel's borders have attacked it for no other reason than "wipe out Jews".
They occupy territories gained in th 1967 war, which was started by Israel(they call it preventive or whatever, fact is, they started it)
Also, just wondering, what would you think if people started coming on your land, with the intent of creating their own country on your land ?
Can you come up with one example where the U.S. was not retaliating? Probably not.
Laos, Grenada, Panama, Iraq,...
Is this a threat to Microsoft? Or is this "for real"?
If they actually distribute the CDs, is there a difference?
I consider this a followup on this story at Linux Today about their threat to use Linux instead of MS-Windows.
As such, we are definitely seeing the economics of competition and choice re-enter the marketplace, and no matter how you look at it, this is a GOOD THING.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
no they were just pissed at the schwatsikas in Microsoft's TrueType Symbols library.
Iraq
Vietnam
Korea
Afganistan
Panama
Peru
And well, is it not easy to call every one
arguing about Israel anti-semitic?
You that have so much knowledge of history
should know that the palestinians are a semitic
people.
Yes I can come up with lots of examples. South America
Name one.
The US has overthrown a lot of democratically elected governments who were a long way from "attacking" anyone.
I see you use the qualifier "democratically ELECTED". The countries you might be thinking of were dictatorships where the dictator got elected and then immediately shut down democracy. You cannot find any actual democracy overthrown.
Can you tell me, since both Jews and Arabs are semites
Look up the meaning if antisemite. If it makes you feel any better, you are anti-Jewish.
"only with the racist and occupant nation of Israel?"
Those are lies made up by anti-semites. Ahem, people who hate Jews.
PS: Please let me know when you find any WMDs in Iraq
Ask France. They believe they exist.However, WMD's were only one of many valid reasons for retaliating against Saddam's aggression.
History has already proven our approach right. I'd like to see how you can dispute that - unless, of course, you'd rather live under Soviet rule.
Can you come up with one example where the U.S. was not retaliating? Probably not.Laos, Grenada, Panama, Iraq,...
Try again. The USSR had invaded and annexed Laos and Grenada. The US came to the aid of these countries. It did not attack them. Panama? The US helped the elected government there. Iraq? Saddam did not invite the U.S. there, but Saddam did attack U.S. peacekeepers many times.
...for reelection aside, people will buy new computers with or without OOo. In fact, some would argue the point that more will upgrade their computers BECAUSE of OOo's less than stellar performance relative to M$ Office.
Free software doesn't have to mean 'broken economy'.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
It's called Jordan.
Just joking about the post I commented...
actually, life in israel is rather normal. they simply won't let the terrorists have the pleasure. when a terrorist bombs them, they have things cleaned up within hours. they get back to life as normal ASAP. also, israel has a thriving IT sector. like here, if we let the terrorists dictate how we'll live, they win.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Can you come up with one example where the U.S. was not retaliating? Probably not
You have no examples. One by one:
IraqSaddam's army attacked US peacekeepers many times.
Vietnam The US came to the aid of South Vietnam when the USSR invaded it.
KoreaYou have the US confused with North Korea, obviously.
AfganistanYou've obviously never heard of the 9/11 attack.
Panama...where the US was invited by Panama's elected government. Next...
Peru What year was this?
Why is that? Because anti-Israeli nations will start pumping money into Palestine? The Arabs in Israel sure haven't proven to have the drive all by themselves. We've only seen progress since the creation of Israel in 1948. That's even with the Arabs attacking them every few years until the 1970's.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
You need to read up a little more on your history of Israel/Palestine. Check out: http://www.palestinefacts.org/ for a very good history of conflict with footnotes to the sources.
Come play Heroes of Might and Magic Mini online.
...needs more COWBELL!!
WALKEN is extremely on TEH SPOKE!!
And Grenada? This "war" is still the funniest joke in all US history, a monumental FLOP. SEALs invading college dorms full of students... Oh my! US were not retaliating. US were making fools of themselves.
All Hail Discordia. Hail Eris. Fnord.
Mellel is a word processor for OS X that is made by and Israeli company which supports right-to-left languages including Hebrew. It's very well designed and attractive (aside from the logo) but it's a proprietary format and the RTF export is lacking. I'm sure these will be improved in future updates. Oh, it's $25.
i used to do work w/ an israeli governmental entity who would send us large data files that were natively in hebrew. working for a financial services company at the time, i was obliged to find a translation service as we were using these files to populate a database. that particular entity was using office 97 hebrew edition to generate a large excel spreadsheet.
several characters didn't get displayed properly on my english edition PC and i went back & forth w/ the translation service and the file creators, until we learned that the issue was the file creators were using win NT hebrew edition as well, which represents certain characters incorrectly when those characters are then displayed on an english edition box. i think i lost a week getting that file straightened out.
ed
OpenOffice is a cross-platform suite. It's not just for Linux. I use the Windows version all the time.
Free software for the win32 platform is (I think) an important front of the F/OSS movement. Most people are unwilling to take the plunge straight into Linux. Using free software on win32 is a way to wade in and test the waters before jumping in. The win32 port of The GIMP was the first thing that got me really excited about free software, and I have since migrated to more free and open source applications and operating systems. For those of you running windows who would like to check out some free software, follow the links below:
They occupy territories gained in th 1967 war, which was started by Israel(they call it preventive or whatever, fact is, they started it)
Bullshit. Read some history. The Egyptian government blockaded an international waterway (the straits of Tiran), an act of war. Egypt might not have shot first in the Six-Day war, but they definitely started it. Israel responded, and other Arab nations joined in (with their usual military incompetence) and lost.
If the US army rolled across the border and occupied Niagara Falls, Canada, they could probably do it without firing a shot (given the sorry state of the Canadian armed forces), but it's still an act of war. Canada would be justified to shoot at US forces without warning. The US would be the aggressor, and Canada the victim.
After the Six-Day war, the Arab nations met in Khartoom to discuss the situation. Some call the meeting the "THREE NO CONFERENCE". There were 3 resultions:
No negotiations.
No recognition.
No peace.
That policy continues to this day (except for Egypt & Jordan). The 1967 war has yet to be settled. Ergo, the territories are legally occupied.
Also, just wondering, what would you think if people started coming on your land, with the intent of creating their own country on your land
Riiight.
The British mandate of Palestine was divided by the UN to create 2 states, one Arab, one Israeli. This was unacceptable to the Arabs, and they chose the path of war (and lost).
First, it's good that OSS gets distributed, but:
The israli finance minister is giving out cds with software on it that's available for free download, to close the gap between poor and rich?
How fake is that.
The Israeli government is politically extreme right, and even fashist.
Everybody complained when the german wall was built, but nobody cares when Israel buids up a wall between land that they have stolen and what is left to palestina.
and Widnows since the days of Word for Windows 2.0.
Microsoft was the first major non-Israeli software company that invested in Herbew enabled and Hebrew localized version of it's products.
When Microsft started localizing Office and Windows, you had to use horrible DOS TSRs to get a pathetic Hebrew support for Lotus 1-2-3, dBase and others.
Are they providing a copy of the GPL translated?
that the Scotts get distracted fighting there mortal enemy, the Scotts.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
i bet youre a jew.
Bwaahahahaha! You are PRICELESS! Isreal is the 'sole agressor'?! What a fucking LAUGH!
It's your type, YOURS that prevents peace becuae you refuse to accept the fact that BOTH sides need an attitude adjustment. You don't want peace - you want Isreal to be your bitch.
Be honest please, and if you can't do that, don't try and slip through bullshit that big. Really.
ooops... ;)
I don't understand english very well, so I didn't see the irony
Ploum.net.
It's for use on EVERY operating system
(that's what the source is there for)
No. My phone runs Symbian; good luck porting OO to it, source or not. Making something run on any given OS is not the main reason for making something open source; it's not even a particularly compelling one, usually. (More of a nice to have, than something that's actually important, unless you happen to run an obscure OS - but by definition that's not the norm)
It's official. Most of you are morons.
You're a moron. Read some f***ing history, SOB. The arab countries all started it. Guess what? They got a good old fashioned whooping. Israel rocked big time, blasting fighters while they were on the ground, etc.
Before we get too far into this Isrial-Palistine debate, let me point out to everyone that neither side has any claim whatsoever to the moral high ground.
Really? Ask yourself these questions:
What would happen if all the Palestinians said, "We are tired of this. We are no longer going to use violence to achieve our goals." and stuck to it. Do you think a treaty would be signed? Do you think Israel will kill all the Palestinians?
What would happen if all the Israelis said, "We are tired of this. We are no longer going to use violence to achieve our goals." and stuck to it. Do you think a treaty would be signed? Do you think Palestinians will kill all the Israelis?
The central problem in the Arab-Israeli disputes is that Israel exists, not where its borders are, not land, not water, not return, not compensation. Until the Arab nations accept that Israel is entitled to exist in some form, there will be no peace.
So Troed, what you are saying then, in a semi-roundabout way is that Israel (being the terrorist state that they are), has turned humble OpenOffice.org into a tool for terrorism?
.sxw anymore? Do you think the office of Homeland Security should be contacted?
Should I be using
Or am I, like apparently so many others, just being ignorant?
True enough. Now, for the Americans in the audience, name which of these two equally-culpable psychopathic nations is the recipient of billion$ of your tax dollars per year?
And who should be accepting responsibility?
"Palestinians have demonstrated a remarkable ability to excel in the industries of poverty, rebellion, and terrorism."
... Israel, OTOH, has shown an amazing ability to exist as a subsidized fascist (original use of the term, as in "corporate state") welfare client.
Hmm
With the scores of Billions of USA tax dollars poured into that rat hole in the desert every Israeli ought to be driving a freaking caddy and drinking champagne by now.
After 50 years it's time to wean that child off of the USA taxpayer's tit.
'It rains nine months a year in Seattle.'
-- Dennis
'I know!'
-- Annie
And you should have some knowledge of the English language to know that "Anti-Semitism" refers to hostility towards Jews specifically, not "semitic peoples."
Anti-Semitism is hostility or violence toward people because of their Jewish ancestry. Although sometimes used literally for hatred of all Semitic peoples, the word "anti-Semitism" was coined specifically to refer to hatred of Jews. There are numerous forms of anti-Semitism, originating in different trends in human society, but usually having the common ground of xenophobia.
Etymology of the word
The word was coined in Germany in 1873 by Wilhelm Marr as a more euphonious way of saying "Judenhass" (Jew-hatred). This name was chosen because Marr and others believed in a now discredited theory that held that certain racial groups and linguistic groups coincide. Semites, at the time, were defined as natives of a group of Middle Eastern nations related in ethnicity, culture and language. Under this theory Semites would include: Jews, the various Arab groups, and ancient nationalities such as the Assyrians, Canaanites, Carthaginians, Aramaeans and Akkadians (one of the ancestors of the ancient Babylonians). The theory of Semitic races has long since been discredited.
The only Semitic people found in significant numbers in Germany at the time the word was coined were Jews, and because of that, anti-Semitism was considered a convenient way to name the hatred of Jews without reminding of either hatred or Jews.
Since the late twentieth century, some have argued that since Arabs speak a Semitic language, they by definition cannot be "anti-Semitic". Similarly, some writers and speakers have used "anti-Semitism" to mean hatred of either Jews or Arabs, considering both groups as "Semites". This usage is nonstandard and highly controversial. Those who use it have been accused of creating a semantic dispute for propaganda purposes.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism (when Wikipedia returns)
By the way, by your logic, was the KKK an anti-Nigerian government movement when they lynched African Americans and burned churches? If they used the cover story, would you be stupid enough to believe it as you are with raging anti-Semites who use "Anti-Zionism" as the politically correct explanation for their attacks on Jews throughout Europe, Africa, Turkey, etc.
FOAD.
"PS: Please let me know when you find any WMDs in Iraq. We're eagerly awaiting those finds"
why? you'll just say we planted them. You're mind is made, and its made with cheap sheets.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Yeah, free software. I never have to pay for my software again. BTW: What was the point of my degree ---- oh yeah ---- thats right ---- so that I can starve to death creating free software.
hmmmmmmmm!
Thank you, some logic and reason from an AC. Miraculous. This Troed guy is either trolling or is so grossly misinformed that he is clearly engaged in a radical act of self-delusion. I've discussed this with intelligent, well-educated Palestinians several times, and while we differed in several key opinions, they never claimed that Israel was solely responsible for the conflict or current situation.
Do you mean something similar to the unilateral cease fire declared by the palestinians which was promptly shattered when israel assasinated one of the leaders of a palestinian militant group? Israeli leaders want war. They want it because as long as they have the US will keep giving them money and Sharon will stay in office.
A blog about stuff.
You know I've seen your spew here enough to know that you're not trolling - you really believe this stuff.
Your comment about the WTC was enough to push even me over the edge. Two words: Fuck and You. Put them in any order you want.
'Unfortunate result' my ass! You know what truly separates us? The fact that we don't unleash total nuclear annihilation on those who attacked us EVEN THOUGH WE COULD. Do you honestly believe that, given the chance, your terrorist pals wouldn't? I could go to any of these zealots websites and prove to you - BY THEIR OWN WORDS what their aims are.
Hint: They're not peaceful.
There is a major difference between the true terrorists of the world and those that fight them. If you are too blind to see that difference, then you do much to help explain the mindset of those who kill in the first place.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
I guess its not the fault of palestinians if you read the statistics of what the israelis do to make sure palestinians do not excel in anything. This is only statistics im trying to be unpolitical here and not discussing why people might try to retaliate against the israeli aggressions or why the israelis do these aggressions to much big of a subject.
economic losses of the palestinians because of the israeli aggressions
the violations of the israelis
Main information page about the al-Aqsa intifada
actually, life in israel is rather normal. they simply won't let the terrorists have the pleasure. when a terrorist bombs them, they have things cleaned up within hours.
And shoot a bunch of innocent people within days.
Can you come up with one example where the U.S. was not retaliating?
Umm... Iraq?!
Preemption is categorically not retaliation. That is why Bush's doctrine is so radical. Retaliatory attacks are not really controversial.
It is you who did not not understand what the poster meant.
There are those who wish for an end to the Israel-Palestine conflict who also believe that the current policy of the Israeli government is folly.
I'm sure there are, in fact, those of Jewish descent or faith who believe this.
Criticism of a government is nowhere close to hatred of a nation. These two are too often directly linked.
Combine Wehrmacht panzers/guns/doctrine, US Navy/industrial output/training and UK intelligence and planning...
They wouldn't have had a chance.
That would have been REAL WHITE POWER! Total world domination!
Up here
It is clear that hatred of Jews is your main thought, not any sort of social justice. Someone mentioned that there were were anti-Jewish messages in this item.
This item is chock full of giant Swastika's and "Hitler should have finished the job" quotes. Your response is to say that there is no anti-Jewish content.
Don't get so upset about lying: just about everything you have said about Israel is untrue. It is not surprising. You can look at a Swastika and see no problem with it.
"as long as they have the US will keep giving them money and Sharon will stay in office" That's right... So what you are saying is that the Israeli government is deliberately putting itself into an ecomonical crisis to get aid? Maybe that's what Africa is doing too?
I have been heard from few sources that the CD will contain Linux and Windows binaries, but from others that it will contain Linux, OpenOffice (Linux and Windows) and Mozilla. Can someone confirm the content of the disc?
As a citizen of Israel (and a Linux user), I really happy with this, but wish to see them focusing more on the end user, than the goverment worker. We are deep in pirate only because most people don't have money to pay for monopolitic software.
Umm... Iraq?!
Saddam Hussein had ordered dozens of attacks on U.S. peacekeepers (also violating the cease-fire) in the years leading up the the U.S. retaliation.
That is why Bush's doctrine is so radical. Retaliatory attacks are not really controversial
Since it was retaliatory, there is nothing radical about it.
you'll just say we planted them.
It's just as well that we don't find them. I don't think they'll grow well in the middle of the desert anyhow.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Nor in the favor of the other party. The 3th Reigh didn't exactly last its 1000 years.
The USSR had invaded and annexed Laos and Grenada.
I don't know about Laos but Grenada was certainly not invaded by anyone except the Americans. Even Canada and Britain condemned the American invasion of Grenada. It was completely unjustified.
That Shylock's a mother fucker!
Your resorting to accusations of anti-semitism and nazism is most amusing.
I think the bottom line is, anytime an entire people are singled out as a 'problem', it's a problem.
Amongst the people in charge there are no innocents, but among the poor everyday commoner who has no beef with anybody, it's a different story. As is always the case in situations like these - guess who suffers more?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Stop it. Jews can never ever be wrong. To say otherwise would be anti-semetic.
Just download it! You would think with the billions Israel loots from the US government each year they would have broadband for everyone!
I'm sorry, did you say something?
It is not exceptional any more. The Finance Departement of the State of Geneva distributes a CD with OpenOffice, Mozilla and some other open source goodies.
Hardly. About 80% of Israeli citizens are Jews. Approximately 20% are Israeli born native Hebrew speakers (CIA Factbook). The rest are imigrants from the US, Europe, Africa and Asia. Of course anyone who wants to do business there needs to be able to write documents in Hebrew.
BTW, if you factor in Palestinians in Israeli occupied territory who do not hold Israeli passports, then the Jewish majority drops to about 53%.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
No.
Palestinians and Jews are the *same* people.
Jews are less "Jews" than Palestinians because
they have been living in Europe and US for so long.
If it is religion you are talking about, then
Israel is higly anti-semitic against black Jews.
Anti-Zionism has nothing to do with rasism at all.
In fact I do know Anti-Zionist Jews. You should
not mix the meaning of words and how stupid people use them. I do not think it is a good idea to form
a country because of religion.
The fact is that it is the same people having
three religions (jewish, christian and muslim).
So if we take God out of the picture they are all
the same.
You are free to visit snakebite resources to straighten up some of your so called "facts".
No, Military crisis. The US doesn't care about the Israeli economy they just don't want Israel to be destroyed. Lucky for Israel the US is convinced that $2+ billion a year in military aid is the only way to deal with the "problem" of palestine.
Look at how Sharon got elected. Her went to the Western Wall with a shit load of israeli soldiers, probably the best way to agravate a situation that might have been on a path to peace. He doesn't care about Israeli lives. On the other side, neither does Arafat care about palestinian lives. But we all knew that already.
A blog about stuff.
So people will switch from a word processor to a spreadsheet? (.sxc is a "Calc" file, I'm sure you mean .sxw files, which are "Writer" files.)
.sxw files, and it annoys most people. I tell them why, and then send them a PDF. That usually annoys business people too, since they can't edit it. I tell them that if they MUST edit it, I can send them an RTF. I'm sure they roll their eyes and think, "Dammit, send me a friggin DOC file, you twit."
I already distribute
Oh well. The price you pay for being enlightened.
guess its not the fault of palestinians if you read the statistics of what the israelis do to make sure palestinians do not excel in anything. This is only statistics im trying to be unpolitical here and not discussing why people might try to retaliate against the israeli aggressions or why the israelis do these aggressions to much big of a subject.
Up until 2000 the palestinans has a thriving economy. Ever since intifada II started, the palestinian economy has been a basket case. What reasonable business will invest in a war zone run by the corrupt palestinian authority?
I expect that you will blame the 2000 intifada II on ariel sharon's visit to the temple mount. Since he knew that the temple mount area is sensitive, Ariel sharon asked (and received) permission from the palestinian authority before visiting. THat didn't stop the palestinians from claiming that sharon had invaded their space and launching intifada 2.0.
It's a Zionist conspiracy to overthrow capitalism!!!
Then they should build the wall on their land or the no man lands zone not inside the occupied land taking annexing their land.
Yeah, those terrorists sure showed restraint on 9/11 didn't they? Thank God for that.
"One other thing seperates us..."
Us? Oh, I'm sorry I was talking about terrorists here. Is that you? So what you're saying is that you are with 'them'?
There is NO explanation for attacks like WTC that is acceptable. Attacks like these do nothing but hurt the cause of your 'people' - if that's what we can call those who would rain fire and death upon thousands.
I always hear the same rhetoric from your side about how you never 'justify the attacks', and yet.. Who the fuck are you siding with here if you don't outright condemn them, and why are we debating the fact that you DO support the attacks most wholeheartedly?!
And uh, last time I checked, the WTC had nothing to do with your assumed 'command and control' theory. It was simply a place of business with civilians in it. A lot of them. A lot to kill all at once - THAT was the aim. It wasn't the purpose of the target (commerce) as much as it was the amount of total death that could gotten from it.
Please stop trying to explain terrorist actions. I don't care - and neither does anyone else at the other end of your barrel.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Both sides? There are only two sides? How about Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Former Iraqi dictatorship, Egypt, or the terror-funding EU (who "need an investigation of where the funds go like they need a whole in the head")?
r en-qa.html
There is no Israel-Palestinian conflict, it's just the media-friendly face to the same old Arab-Israeli conflict. Arabs refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist, and Israel refuses to cease to exist, a rather simple equation.
And yes, Israel does have the right to claim the moral high ground, because mere days after Palestinians and Arabs joined in an attempted mass slaughter of her civilians, she responded with the most generous offer a victorious warring nation has ever produced - a return of the land for normalized relations - Arabs responded with their typical undying hatred of all things Jewish.
"On June 19, 1967, scarcely ten days after the cease-fire, the Israeli government decided in a secret cabinet session to return all of the Sinai Peninsula, all of the Golan Heights, to Egypt and Syria respectively in return for full peace treaties. At the same time, the Israeli government launched a clandestine operation to canvass 80 Palestinian notables on the West Bank about the possibility of creating an autonomous Palestinian entity, leading potentially to an independent Palestinian state. The Egyptians and the Syrians rejected this overture. They convened at Khartoum at the end of the summer, and they passed the infamous Three No's: no negotiations, no peace, no recognition of Israel. The Palestinian notables in the West Bank, the protocols of the discussions, all said they'd be interested in having an autonomous entity. They certainly wanted independence. But they were afraid if they concluded any peace treaty at all with Israel, they'd be executed. A historic opportunity was lost that summer, and we've lived with the consequences ever since."
- http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/02/02-06o
If you're looking for a villain in the Middle East, start with the dictatorships and tyrannies that have ethnically cleansed Palestinians from Kuwait, refuse to give them basic citizenship rights in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan (although Jordan is by far the best of that crew), refuse to allow Palestinians to immigrate (Saudi Arabia), and continue to fan the flames of hatred to perpetuate their proxy war against Israel. Find me a pro-Palestinian more concerned with the well-being of the Palestinian people rather than the desire to harm Israel in some way, shape, or form. I don't see all the apologists in Europe doing a damn thing to improve the living conditions of Palestinians in any Arab nations - a people forced to live in slum villages for the sole purpose of using their plight as a negotiating tool in their proxy war against Israel. I didn't hear a damn word when tens of thousands of Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from Kuwait, yet I heard plenty about it when somebody simply (and falsely) <b>accused</b> Israel of <b>considering</b> it.
There is one party amongst all these people that has an open, liberal democracy that not only includes over 1 million Arab and Druze citizens (including an Arab member on the Supreme court), but also provides the highest standard of living for any Arab in the entire Middle East. Israel has made quite a few mistakes - bringing in a dictator from Tunisia at the urging of the U.S. government being the most egregious, but to try to equate the two sides while ignoring the funding and motivation from the Arab world is utterly puerile.
I guess the swastika blackmail stunt against MS did not work so now the zionists will carry forth their blackmail plan by attemtpting to undermine MS profits. Any company that does not pay the zionist extortionists faces similar consequences.
These guys make the fabled "mafia" look like pikers.
GPL Solution To Palestinian Terrorist Attacks: Open Fire.
Apart from the problem that everytime the Israelis raid the Palastinian AUthority, they trash the computer systems - the Palastinians could use OO too. They have less money (the computers were paid for by the EU), what they have tends to be older and they must handle now communications in English, Arabic and Hebrew.
The "billions of USA tax dollars" are part of concession deals that the US signed with Israel (e.g. Camp David/Egypt peace treaty "lead" by President Carter). These were agreements.
This money is also used to leverage internal policy in Israel in the USA's favor -- which is not always in favor of the Israeli public or others in the region (e.g. the US sponsored "road map", pressure from Bush to change internal policy, etc).
Remember, the US has it's own agenda, and it's the US first, everyone else second.
Let's face it, the US needed Israel during the cold war era, and still needs Israel now (technological partnerships, etc), so the money will keep on flowing, just like the american demands.
I think you're wrong... He does... that's why he's building the wall, and now trying to evacuate some of the outposts (political suicide in his case) And for the wall-visiting: that's plain BS. Not only is it the holiest place for Jews, and a part of his country, where he has every right to go, but to think that war starts because of a persons visit to some place is absurd!
You'r blind and you keep trying to blind everyone else by twisting the facts. It is impossible to rationally discuss such a complex issue with some one like you, I can tell you one thing though. Zionist have one of two choices, give the Palestinians their rights or live in terrorism the rest of your life. Feed a Muslim, he will worship you, starve him he will kill you. It is as simple as that.
Odd how you forget the dozens of attempted suicide bombings, the dozens of successful shooting attacks, and the unmitgated hate speech and threats spewing from government agencies during this "cease fire." But hey, all terrorist groups should have a chance to rebuild their ranks, right? If Israeli leaders wanted war, all they would have to do is create a Palestinian state - there's no evidence whatsoever to assume that Palestine would be a peaceful nation - in fact, there's plenty of evidence to show that it would be a tragic escalation of the situation. You're a pathetic moron.
Yes, the Israeli people would love it if the finance ministry stopped collecting tax returns. You are quite right, with so many resources directed against the Palastinians, Israelis aren't that well off. The promotion and use of alternatives to closed source and expensive software is eminently sensible.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I read that and sputtered my drink. :-)
Stupid moderator must have eaten an all-cheese supper last night. Funny != Troll...
as far as I know there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Arabs that lost their land in the 67 war were egyptian
Yeah, Sharon went to a site holy to Jewish people, a site which by the grace of a kind and considerate nation, was and continues to be under the supervision of an Arab body fiercely anti-Jewish in their views. The fact that Jews are barred from a holy place while Arabs are given control of it is a fact that's lost on your tunnel-visioned anti-Israel arse, isn't it?
What does the trip have to do with the intifada though? Absolutely nothing, it was planned long before the visit:
PA minister: Intifada planned since July
You'r blind and you keep trying to blind everyone else by twisting the facts. It is impossible to rationally discuss such a complex issue with some one like you,
So, why don't you try to refute my arguments, you pig-dog?
Feed a Muslim, he will worship you, starve him he will kill you. It is as simple as that.
Really? Muslims worshiping people? That's not allowed. You're only supposed to worship Allah.
Israel has an open government policy to buy one copy of software and use it for everything. in fact i don't think that Israel has ever bought a MS copy they just pirate whatever they want. but i could be wrong. so my question is, if they dont even pay for MS products now, why are they going to opensource in the first place.
now its time for my anti Israel rant.
" the war on terrorism needs to be fought in Israel, we need to give the country back to its rightfull owners ( the Palestinians ) and then the world will know peace" why the hell are we supporting that fucking country anyways, we give them shitloads of money and military support and they consider it a national sport to rip off and fuck Americans. its time we pull out of Israel and stop giving them money or military support, let them handle their own problems. the middle east isn't pissed at Israel because of their religion, the cam be fucking boganists for all i care, the middle east hates Israel because of their policies and actions in the middle east. I'm not anti Jew or anything like that but Ive done business with Israelis and my impression is if your not Israeli than its their god given right to fuck you over.
I have some good friends from Palestine who are very vocal about the issue. I have some good friends from Israel who are likewise very vocal about the issue. They are all very highly educated, very articulate, and very much believe in their perspective views. As such I have heard countless arguments on both sides over the years. I have seen numbers from both sides proving what they say, but in the end, they don't matter. You can make numbers say what ever you want them to - and both sides do. Both sides put out numbers showing how they were harmed, and how little they have harmed the other. These numbers are not stopping either side from killing the other, just encouraging it.
Numbers like these lead to more donations to Palestine some of which buys more weapons. When Israel does its the same thing - more money to buy weapons. They don't lead to any solutions, only finger pointing, name-calling and more bloodshed.
You know what angers me most? It's my own part in it. The majority of funding for this - both sides of this - comes from the USA. Until a few years ago I contributed to both sides in my charitable giving, and even worse, for a long time I did not take the time to understand the various points of view, and see my own part in it. So yes, I have blood on my hands as well. I often wonder what would happen if the money just stopped flowing.
Before I get off my soapbox, can anyone tell me how much money Israel has spent caring for those Palestinians injured in their various attacks on Palestine? How about telling me how much money Palestine has spent caring for those injured in Israel by suicide Palestinian bombers?
And we are surprised this keeps going on?
Secret sneak bombing of MSFT's campus at Redmond like Osirak?
This
Palestinians have sought to leech on to this success and drain the lifeblood away
Interesting choice of words. Didn't the Nazis similarly view Jews as leeches who drained the lifeblood of German society ?
Palestine isn't a state occupied by anyone - it's a name of a former province of Roman Empire. There was never a state of Palestine. There's no brutal occupation either. What happens here is unprecedented war of terror against civilian population of Israel and you and those like you are denying the right of Israel to defend itself (by calling it "brutal occupation"). And that *is* racism.
Perhaps they are multi platform install CDs?
I havn't willingly used Windows EVER, (old Amiga freak--Yeah, one of those people) but I find it hard to imagine giving away binary OO CDs for LINUX, as you would think they actually want the max number folks to USE this.
Most folks have Windows. Does OO for Win NOT support Hebrew?? Then it would make sense...
The Palestinians are also semitic (like the Jews). It does not make sense to state that they are anti-semitic. Basically you are saying a white person is racist for hating another white person.
I don't know if they are still doing it, but at one time, most of the pirate CD plants were owned and operated by the People's Liberation Army. The PLA owned and operated a wide variety of businesses. They were put under pressure by the central government to divest themselves of some of these businesses.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Take an OpenOffice.org Writer file (SXW). Rename the file to have the extension SXC. (For OOo Calc -- the spreadsheet.)
Now open it.
It opens as a Writer document just fine.
All OOo documents use the same XML structure. Based on some information in the META-INF directory, OOo is able to deduce that the top level of the document should open in Writer.
What do I mean by all this META-INF nonsense? Try this experiment: take any OOo document and rename it's extension (from SXC, SXW, etc.) to ZIP. Now unzip it. You get a Content.xml file, a META-INF folder, and other goodies if your document contained embedded pictures, etc.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Technically speaking, Jews are as much Palestinians as Arabs are. Palestine is just a name Romans gave to the land of Judea which they occupied some 2000 years ago. (And Judea was a Jewish country at the time, can you imagine that?)
As to the gap between Jews and Arabs, it would be much smaller if Arafat would stop wasting all those billions EU and USA are transferring to him, to buy guns, bulding rockets and continuing to fund terrorist activities like blowing up civilian Jews in school buses and supermarkets.
You thick head. You see how you twist things. Let me try one more time to get some sence into your ass.
They saying was an anology. Feed, starve, and worship were not meant in the materialistic sence you believe in. Feed and starve from basic human things like freedom, liberty, happiness, etc. The palestinians took the Jews in when they left Nasi Germany when no other country wanted them (including the US of A). They, (Palestinians) tried for the last 50 years to negociate in good faith. The Zionist never had the peaceful intensions because their intension alway was and still is to build Isreal from the the Nile to the Tigres. It is realy a waste of time with you. Like I said, either the Palestinians get their rights, or you live in hell (Terrorism) for ever. And it hasn't gotten bad yet.
Jews are cheap snipdick bastards.
Not that this is particularly productive to debate, but I hope Israel is pushed into the sea by the Arab nations surrounding it. ...and fire the ovens for those who dare remain behind.
The most telling thing about Troed the nazi was when he looked at this message item, which by that time contained giant swastikas and "Hitler should have finished the job" quotes and said: "Nothing anti-jewish here".
You know nothing of American history. Off the top of my head
You mean take the top off and insert a brain?
None of those were democracies. A few of them had been annexed by the USSR. Nicaragua in particular had basically outlawed non-Sandinista opposition.
That said it is much more common for us to intervene to prevent a dictatorship from being overthrown
Only when the dictatorship is being threatened with annexation by outside imperialists. It is part of basic anti-imperialism: protect the sovereignty of nations, even if we do not like their governments. (El Salvador is an example of this. The country was being invaded by the Soviet FMLN army. When the USSR fell, the invasion ended quickly.)
I see you know nothing of American history, or that of any other country.
Correct. The Israeli government is typically some sort of "social democratic" version of Socialist. It is never right-wing, and never fascist.
What the hell? Did you go to school in Arkansas? The USSR supplied the North vietnamese, but "invaded"? i think not
Ho Chi Minh basically sold his country (North Vietnam) to the USSR. The USSR did not invade it as such. The invasion that happened was when North Vietnam (by this time a full Soviet territory) invaded South Vietnam.
The war was initially, and primarily a nationalistic struggle
It was initially, but by late 1950s Ho had sold the country to the USSR. It became a war of the Soviets against the Vietnamese. Learn some damn history!
(The Wikipedia article is in error in many ways, one of them is having the war start much later than it actually did)
simple crap that should have been mastered before their 1.0 release. Jesus, I still have problems saving files in windows-compatible formats. For example, if the file is like one page long and has more than one bullet list then the file won't save properly...oh, it'll save, but when you re-open it, forget about having it look like it did when you saved it. Freakin bullets changed to numbers, bullets moved around, deleted, added to things that shouldn't have bullets. WTF.
01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01100101 00101110
giving people free cds is like giving them free gasoline.
Try throwing a flaming CD onto an Israeli patrol.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Zionist have one of two choices, give the Palestinians their rights or live in terrorism the rest of your life
They tried this: leaving the Palestinian territory totally alone. The Palestinians there had "their rights". This failed: the Palestinians launched their many aggressive attacks into Israel. These forced Israel to occupy the West Bank and Gaza.
Israel will likely leave (as is reasonable) once the terrorism that invited them there ceases.
Then they should build the wall on their land or the no man lands zone not inside the occupied land taking annexing their land.
The Palestinian government, by engaging in these suicide bombings, has forced Israel to build this wall in the first place. Why should Israel waste its own land for a buffer zone? Palestine should pay for its aggression; let it have the buffer zone.
The wall is mobile. If the Palestinians cease their aggression, it would move west and probably come down.
Look at how Sharon got elected. Her went to the Western Wall with a shit load of israeli soldiers, probably the best way to agravate a situation that might have been on a path to peace
He provoked nothing. The soldiers did not threaten or try and shoot anyone. They were just bodyguards. They did nothing but walk across a place there they are allowed to.
The fact that many Palestinians erupted into a bloodthirsty orgy of violence just because a Jewish person walked by a Muslim holy place shows a problem with the Muslims involved, not the Jews.
Nein ! Nein! GNU Macht Frei!
And the Iraq war was about WMD too
No, it was primarily about making Iraq a free place. The WMD thing was to try and force France to side with good despite themselves (by insisting that they follow the agreements they claimed to support). Aside from that, it was a good move in a war against terrorism: Saddam, as a terrorist leader, was trying to build WMD's as fast as he could.
The WMD's will be found. There was overwhelming proof they existed before the U.S. liberation: just as there was proof Saddam Hussein existed (and he was found just recently).
It doesn't make sense because you are totally clueless about the origins and meanings of the word. Anti-Semitism is not simply the sum of it's parts, there's a history (etymology) behind the word.
from wikipedia (which is down right now):
Anti-Semitism is hostility or violence toward people because of their Jewish ancestry. Although sometimes used literally for hatred of all Semitic peoples, the word "anti-Semitism" was coined specifically to refer to hatred of Jews. There are numerous forms of anti-Semitism, originating in different trends in human society, but usually having the common ground of xenophobia.
Etymology of the word
The word was coined in Germany in 1873 by Wilhelm Marr as a more euphonious way of saying "Judenhass" (Jew-hatred). This name was chosen because Marr and others believed in a now discredited theory that held that certain racial groups and linguistic groups coincide. Semites, at the time, were defined as natives of a group of Middle Eastern nations related in ethnicity, culture and language. Under this theory Semites would include: Jews, the various Arab groups, and ancient nationalities such as the Assyrians, Canaanites, Carthaginians, Aramaeans and Akkadians (one of the ancestors of the ancient Babylonians). The theory of Semitic races has long since been discredited.
The only Semitic people found in significant numbers in Germany at the time the word was coined were Jews, and because of that, anti-Semitism was considered a convenient way to name the hatred of Jews without reminding of either hatred or Jews.
Since the late twentieth century, some have argued that since Arabs speak a Semitic language, they by definition cannot be "anti-Semitic". Similarly, some writers and speakers have used "anti-Semitism" to mean hatred of either Jews or Arabs, considering both groups as "Semites". This usage is nonstandard and highly controversial. Those who use it have been accused of creating a semantic dispute for propaganda purposes.
Trying to cover the occurrences of anti-Semitism or anti-Jewish rhetoric with banal and semantic arguments is a waste of everybody's time, so get off it.
Unless Bill Gates has a really, really big mattress that it's all stuffed under. :)
/. article about the software they designed to manage their investments. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I do know that all that money is being re-invested (aside from the 5% that goes straight into Bill's Evil Moon Base).
Actually, I remember a
A similar thing happens when regular people put money into a bank. The bank doesn't put the money into a small box with your name on it. It lends it out to others as loans, and a portion of the profit is used to pay you interest. So the bank never has enough money on hand to cover a massive withdrawl, which is where FDIC insurance comes in.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
No, it's not anti-semetic to say a Jew is wrong.
It IS anti-semetic to hold Jews to a higher standard than Muslims.
Ie, so many liberals complain when Israel violates human rights, and those same people are silent if Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, etc. do the same things to Jews.
Whether or not the wall comes down, is moved, or stays in place is up to the Palestinians. They caused its construction with their unjust war of aggression. It has worked in the past: Egypt backed off from "we will exterminate you" and decided to respect the rights of the Israelis to live. It got all its land back. (Egypt only lost its land when its military tried to make true on the "We will exterminate you" promise)
Syria, on the other hand, still proclaims a goal of invasion and extermination of Israelis. It's no wonder that they do not have the Golan back.
The Palestinian government still proclaims this, through its military branches (Hamas, etc.). All they have to is call off the damn war and the occupation ends. It is pretty idiotic for a people to turn land over to a government that is still devoted to its extermination.
To a large extent Israel is all occupied territory. There were always palestinians that lived there and then the jews show up and say "hey UN, could you make this land ours?"
The Palestinian Arabs basically asked for this partition. They had a history many hundreds of years long of mistreating the indiginous population (the Jews) in the area. Through this, the Arabs said "We can't run the place in any but a barbaric fashion. Only partition will work."
The Taliban, horrible people that they were/are, offered to give him to us. We decided we'd rather kill people. Doesn't sound like restraint to me.
Besides being a sort of neo-nazi (based on your anti-Jewish statments) you are getting facts wrong. Here is what happened: when Osama was found out as the cause of 9/11. the US asked the Taliban to turn him over. The Taliban refused. They were given a few weeks to change their mind (the U.S. did not want war). The Taliban still refused.
The U.S. invaded, and saved a lot of lives in the process. The few thousand killed during the invasion because the Taliban used them for human shields is MUCH more than made up for by the tens of thousands that the Taliban would have starved and executed had they stayed in power.
The supposed reason we invaded Afghanistan was because Bin Laden was there
There is no other reason.
The attack on the WTC & the Pentagon was exactly what the US Gov't would have done given the same resources
No, it would not have done this. Very few governments would have done this entirely unjustified act.
Much criticism of Israel is based on anti-semitic lies: the "apartheid wall" claims, calling the Israeli government "Fascist", sying Israel is the only aggressor, calling for its people to be wiped out.
In fact, most of the criticism in the message thread crosses the line from reasoned criticism into these bald-faced lies which are based on nothing more than deep-rooted hatred.
Can you come up with one example where the U.S. was not retaliating? Probably not.
Given that the U.S. have never been invaded: retaliate for what?? For not conforming to U.S. ideas of how the entire world should do their bidding?
Never mind history, start with a dictionary and look up "invasion" and "retaliation".
The U.S. acts internationally with all the aggressive zeal of a Jehovah's Witness at your door, and smarts and subtlety to match (that is, zero). With a vast military arsenal to back them up, and little to no compunctions about using it. "Why do they hate us so", sheesh it's bloody obvious innit?
- nic
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
Sharon isn't just "some person", he is hated by palestinians. Viewed on almost the same level as jews think of hitler. Check out his history in the IDF. It wasn't that a Jew or an israeli went, it was that Sharon went.
As for evacuating outposts. Huh? They are still being built.
A blog about stuff.
On the point of "leeches who drained the lifeflood of XXX society", that view is common and applied to many different XXX societies and peoples. Why? Because there are many zero-sum games in which parasitic leeching is a good strategy. It is what you do with that fact that is important. Invoking Nazism (which decided that genocide was the proper solution to this observation) is one of the oldest tricks in the book, but if you look at the situation closely, there is very little similarity between the two situations. Israel is willing and ready to make peace, but Palestinian authority demonstrates a complete failure and unwillingness to reign in terrorism and yield control of its military forces to this end, and furthermore rejected (autonomously without consent of council or public) gracious offers for peace including Camp David II (July 2000).
Stop posting anonymously if you have something to say.
I always thought that the name OpenOffice was a bit too generic, but now when I saw your comment above, it actually adds some Authority to the application.
Someone who does not know what it is, will not just dismiss it as it sounds like "Hej this is legitimate and I better find out what it is so as not to look stupid" kind of thing.
Second. Once the penetration of OOo is above 10%-15% it will change the dynamics of document interchange. It's like when people argues that Mozilla or alternative browsers only need 15%+- share to prevent wes sites being designed for IE only.
Help fight continental drift.
As for the Neo-Nazi comment. FUCK YOUDisliking the actions of Israel and hating jews is completely different
But disliking reasonable actions of Israel just because Israel is Jewish, and making up "actions" which have never occured... it is the same as disliking Jews. You have done both.
Nice ad hominem attack though
It wasn't. It was an accurate description based on your own neo-nazi words.
Should I accuse you of being racist against Arabs and South-east Asians now.
Go ahead. You know you will be wrong. I have done nothing like you have (i.e. I hate Japan but I do not hate its people).
Learn some tolerance. Don't believe the lies about Israel.
Given that the U.S. have never been invaded: retaliate for what??
The U.S. has been invaded at least twice. 9-11 and Pearl Harbor are the most famous actions.
Aggression outside takes place as well: look at Saddam's violation of the cease fire by attacking peacekeepers in the no-fly zones.
With a vast military arsenal to back them up, and little to no compunctions about using it.The U.S. acts internationally with all the aggressive zeal
False. The US has engaged in no aggression since before WW2. Before WW2, it did.
For not conforming to U.S. ideas of how the entire world should do their bidding?
That has never happened. You are making stuff up and you know it.
Never mind history,
That is your message. Next time, back things up with facts. Someone like you who has forgotten 9-11 and Pearl Harbor needs a lot of studying. You know so little.
"...Given that the U.S. have never been invaded..."
I KNEW it! Ben Affleck made up this entire Pearl Harbor thing!
There are a couple of reasons:
They hate us because they hate freedom, democracy, and people who have different religions from them.
They hate us because government-controlled media and education systems have left them ignorant of actual affairs.
The hatred has no justification: it is based on mean-spiritedness and ignorance.
I'm glad someone is willing to use this "arsenal" whenever necessary. Even if Saddam, Hitler, and those like you who defend them think it is a bad idea.
That's not accurate either.
"Jewish" doesn't have to be the Jewish religion -- it can be the Jewish people (ethnicity).
As with Hebrew, there is a big overlap, but they are not synonymous.
For example, Israeli hospitals such as Hadassah, are known for taking in everybody regardless of religion or background, including terrorists. One surgeon recently blinded by a terrorist attack had in fact reattached the hand of a Palestinian bomb maker, only to be nearly killed by one later.
It appears as though your gut reflex would be to give more aid, and it's an understandable instinct. The problem is, as numerous studies have shown, terrorism is perpetrated by middle class and upper class people by a far greater margin than those impoverished. Palestinians get the most aid per capita in the world according to the World Bank (no longer avail online, from a Jerusalem Post reprint of an Associated Press article dated Feb 19, 2003):
The key is in the education - one that's currently under the control of a group of thugs sadly put in place by both my and Israel's governments.
Your compassion is understandable and commendable, but ignoring the strategy behind terrorism will only lead to more of it. There's a wide political spectrum in Israel, don't you find it curious that it doesn't exist on the other side of the divide (usually because they're dragged out in the street and hung for their political views)?
By the way, you have nowhere near as much blood on your hands as, say, the average European. At least our government officials don't secretly delight at the prospect of our funds going to the likes of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade. EU government officials hoping to prevent funds going to terrorist groups is a rare thing. As Chris Patten famously said, they'd want an investigation of where the funds were going like he'd like a hole in the head.
The difference is that we, I'm american, have no control over what those countries do. We give Israel billions of dollars every year.
A blog about stuff.
You thick head. You see how you twist things. Let me try one more time to get some sence into your ass.
You still have yet to provide any real facts or arguments.
The palestinians took the Jews in when they left Nasi Germany when no other country wanted them (including the US of A).
Bullshit. The only country to take in Jewish refugees was the Dominican Republic.
They, (Palestinians) tried for the last 50 years to negociate in good faith.
Really? So why did the Arabs declare war after the UN partitioned the British mandate territory?
And after losing the 1967 war the Arabs met in Khartoom, Sudan, to discuss the war. They decided 3 things:
No recognition of Israel.
No negotiations with Israel.
No peace with Israel.
The Zionist never had the peaceful intensions because their intension alway was and still is to build Isreal from the the Nile to the Tigres.
It is realy a waste of time with you.
You could at least offer some real facts and arguments.
Like I said, either the Palestinians get their rights, or you live in hell (Terrorism) for ever.
Palestinians who are citizens of Israel are the free-est palestinians in the middle east.
I think he was just trying to hide the phrase FINAL SOLUTION
go and buy MS Office for $400 or whatever then you will have to draw up a new list of complaints. it aint perfect either. be grateful for what others have done and given to you for free.
Tell 'em how it is! OpenOffice is free, StarOffice is supported, get one, put it in.... and.... shut up!
"i'm a neonazi"
At last you have stopped denying it.
Israel does shitty things to palestinians,
More lies. But hey, you are a neo-nazi. So be it.
All I'm saying is, if I cannot afford a car, and someone gives me gasoline -- damn if I'm not going to make me some Molotovs! And "say hello" to every luxury car that rolls by...
This appears to be due to a longstanding bug, bug 104550.
" best way to agravate a situation that might have been on a path to peace"
Oh you mean he was dealing with fucking brainless animals that get enraged by seeing a particular guy hanging around a wall ?
And you want Jews to negotiate with creatures like that ?
You misrepresented the grandparent's premise by implying that invasion (presumably in the formal military sense) is a prerequisite for retaliation. Your modification of the premise is, of course, absurd. 911 is an excellent exception to your "rule".
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
Do you recall the Exodus? May be you should ask your parents and grand parents. Flocks of Jews via ship after ship went to Palestine before 1948.
The Arabs didn't start the 67 war, Isreal did. The Arabs transted the US when promised that there will be no war. Isreal took the apportunity to strike. The Arabs realized what Isreal's true intentions are and decided not to negoctiate until Isreal withdrew from occupied Arab land. The UN passed resolution 242 which no nation enforced. The Arabs have been cheated time and time again. The bottom line is, "what is taken by the sord will not be returned but the sord". Keep that in mind. The west keeps wondering why there is more and more terrorism. Well the Palestinian people has taken matters into their own hands. let us see how long Isreal and the west is going to keep up with that. Stay blind and keep lying and we will see how long Isreal is going to keep up with that.
If they have left, why are the settlements still there since 1967? Your lies are sickening. You can ly to the un-informed west all you want, but Isreal and the Palestinians know better. Keep lying and we shall see where this is going to lead you. The Arabs are not native Indians.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, but I see no reason on posting AC to hide my views.
I do however see little point in posting this information here as you do. There is a time and a place for everything. It will deservedly be modded down; this does not matter to me as I browse at -1 threshold anyway, because I value freedom more than political correctness and "brevity" in my perusing of posts. If I wanted selective news for the sake of brevity and "saving time" I would just read one of the many newspapers available which would be the mainstream equivalent of written news such as I receive on the internet. However we all know these situations lead to special interest takeovers, or rather expose the inherint exploitablity of moderation systems and centralized control such as in the newspaper. Anyway, moderation works wonderfully, just like violence, in getting sympathy for your cause. It was Hitler, I believe, who said, "If we won't let our enemy have guns, why let him have ideas?"
It's possible that I'm responding to a troll who is falesly representing the views he presents in order to create a negative atmosphere, but I could also be responding to a sincere advocate of the beliefs I hold. Either way, here is my response.
I personally do believe the White Race is under both a direct and indirect assault by enemies of our people. Moreso I believe that 90% of our people - that is white european heterosexual people - are under a spell. These people basically have no opinions. They simply follow the idea's that are presented to them on television. I call these people lemmings. The use of the term lemming in my post is not -as it would seem - the foundation for a "me vs the masses" sort of ideology. It is simply an honest reflection of the realities of our society. It is a reflection of how people behave, and how they act. It is also a reflection of the resulting structure of our society, and how people interact and deal with one another. It is simply a known truth that there is a CompUSA, Best Buy, WalMart, and other common stores in virtually every American town. It is universally understood - especially in a place like Slashdot - that the communication tools (such as television) that individuals consume at these would-be cultural centers are the clients of the most centralized, controlled, and cesored propaganda machine ever known to the human race. Therefore it is perfectly acceptable for me to generalize and use the term lemming in my post, as lemmings from anytown USA live the same, read and watch the same news programs, and have been socialized into a certain way of behavior and personality.
I feel a certain connection to the Anonymous person that posted. I don't know if he or she is a heterosexual white person, but I bet they are. I don't believe as the poster does that most Whites are concious of the real threat to themselves. Most Whites have been in tense racial situations, where they may have been outnumbered by homogenous groups of non-whites and been threatened either morally or physically; where a white heterosexual female has been encouraged by her peers to have intercourse with a non-white by her lemming peers (I know she felt of certain degree of repulsion and disgust in her giving-in to the peer pressure of her spellbound lemming associates); situations where a White person has lost a job, a college admittance, or other sought position to a less qualified non-white at the expense of policies such as affirmative action; I know that there are many Whites who are perplexed at the existance of "107 historically black colleges, whose fundamental blackness must be preserved in the name of diversity, but all historically White colleges must be forcibly integrated in the name of... the same thing. To resist would be racist."(stormfront.org)
I know that many Whites aren't racially aware, like the non-white races are, but they do observe the events I described and similar events on a daily basis. They fail to draw any correlations. They refuse to adopt "racist" doctri
If you enjoy music check out the homepage of Resistance Records. If you like to read, or are curious about various topics, you should check out The National Vanguard Online Bookstore. They offer a wide variety of literature which you may find enlightening in your struggle for more views that are similar to the feelings you are openly asking if anyone feels on the above post.
Interesting.
You seem to overlook the money the U.S. gives to the P.A., which when looked at in terms of population of Israeli citizens and population of people identifying themselves as "Palestinian", is a good deal more than what we're giving to Israel.
Not to mentiont that while the P.A. receives money from the U.N. and other international agencies, on top of the money they receive from the U.S., Israel receives only from the U.S.
Not to mention that the P.A. openly funds a terrorist wing (the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade) and has close ties to the P.L.O., another self-proclaimed terrorist group.
Not to mention the P.A. has a clause in it's constitution stating that it's mission is to "drive the Jews to the sea," something not mirrored by the Israelis.
Not to mention that we're not actually giving any of it to Israel. Virtually all money marked "defense" that comes from the U.S. comes with the caveat that it must be spent in the U.S., mostly on American army surplus but occasionally (and under careful scrutiny) to U.S. contracting companies.
So virtually all of that money, except that going to hospitals and butter et al, is coming right back to us.
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"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?" --George W. Bush, in Jan. 2000
Jesus H. Christ. It's not even worth it.
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"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?" --George W. Bush, in Jan. 2000
Jesus H. Christ. There's more than one. Are they multiplying?
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"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?" --George W. Bush, in Jan. 2000
Are you kidding? /. is the perfect place for spies or subversives to hide messages. Not that the parent post would be particularily successful at either of those two things (at least for long, unless we're talking agent-provocateur)
... but not support, distribution, manuals, etc. So the industry will still be there (don;t worry about programmers, most of them earn their money doing in-house development, not commercial software).
And in any case, the software industry is concentrated in big commercial conglomerates that will continue requiring software anyway, but hopefully they will wisen up and choose software that puts them back in control of their infrastrucutre.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I guarentee Israel will be using Open Office on Windows machines, otherwise the story would have read "Israel switches to Linux and uses Open Office", but code portability in this case was the primary player. I doubt they would be using OO if they all had to install Linux to use it.
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
To be able to at least partially save in a obfuscated format.
Use the native format and you'll be fine, if you need to export do it using something simple (plain text) and reformat in the other processor.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
True, but (unless I'm mistaken) both the Linux and the Windows version of OO are provided by the same people, namely OO.org.
In this case, the fact that the source is available to anyone who wants it is largely immaterial, as it wasn't anyone else that did the port. (I'm not daying that others didn't help, of course, but OO.org weren't relying on them for the work to be done)
It's official. Most of you are morons.
I have people at work use PDF, ISO-8859-1, or XHTML and justified it on purely technical grounds, however, I'd like to add a paragraph or two from the law book.
In the near future, there will be the Oasis file format, which will make archival work much easier.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
The doomsday scenario about anyone suffering when Microsoft goes under strikes me as bullshit. I'm sure even the current U.S. government could find a replacement export. Actually, they'd have to. Very little production goes on in the U.S. anymore, not even jeans, and the trade deficit + the budget deficit + deflation are about to pop a bubble.
As mentioned before, each day we read about more countries, agencies, institutions and businesses increasing productivity and cutting TCO by going F/OSS. Someone is going to be selling to these customers. If the U.S. keeps wasting it resources propping up the MS dinosaur, it will let everyone else get too far a lead.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Again, this not only a warning about the dangers of monopoly lock-in but also a visible example of where OSS methods excel. It's not only cheaper to develop OSS, but fewer hoops to hop through. If I can gather the resources, I or anyone can make a translation of OpenOffice.org or AbiWord or Mozilla or so on in the language of my choice be it Navajo, Ojibwe, Kildin Sami, or what ever.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Re Pearl harbour: Hawaii did not become a state of the U.S. until 1959, and to this day there are arguments that this may have in fact been illegal.
In any case, U.S. entry into WW-II is not at issue here. For the sake of focus, we can limit ourselves to even just post-cold-war cases, doesn't change the argument at all.
- nic
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
You misrepresented the grandparent's premise by implying that invasion (presumably in the formal military sense) is a prerequisite for retaliation. Your modification of the premise is, of course, absurd. 911 is an excellent exception to your "rule".
Not so. The claim I am disputing was:
Can you come up with one example where the U.S. was not retaliating?
in the context of U.S. invasions. Webster defines "to retaliate" as:
transitive senses: to repay (as an injury) in kind
intransitive senses: to return like for like; especially: to get revenge
(boldface mine for emphasis). Clearly, a prior kind of invasion of the U.S. by another nation is required for a U.S. invasion of the perpretrator to be considered a retaliation. So the question rather is, can we come up with examples where a U.S. invasion *was* in retaliation?
Pearl Harbor is one, fine. 09/11 can be considered a kind of invasion, but while that justifies action against Al Qaeda, overthrowing the Taliban is a different matter. All that rhetoric about "the friends of our enemies", "axis of evil", etc. leads down a very slippery slope of cannonboat diplomacy littered with domino theories, neo-colonialism, and U.S. special economic interests.
Iraq represents a new nadir in that regard, and this is where the criticism stems from. Nobody but a few fanatics sheds a tear for that bastard SOB Saddam, but ends do not justify means, and the means used here - specifically, U.S. riding roughshot over the U.N., invading a sovereign nation on an extremely flimsy, and most likely forged, pretext - are scary in their amorality and ruthlessness.
- nic
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
but while that justifies action against Al Qaeda, overthrowing the Taliban is a different matter
Not different at all: the Taliban was refusing to turn over Al Quada; in fact the two were operating in unison.
All that rhetoric about "the friends of our enemies", "axis of evil", etc. leads down a very slippery slope of cannonboat
No, it does not. It is just an accurate description of world situations.
invading a sovereign nation on an extremely flimsy, and most likely forged, pretext -
Nothing was forged. As for "sovereign nation": Germany and Japan at the end WW2 were no less "sovereign nations" than Iraq was. Why even mention it?
are scary in their amorality and ruthlessness.
How can you possibly cook this up? It was very moral, and not ruthless at all. Unless you happen to be one of those who sheds a tear for that bastard Saddam Hussein. Only then is it BAD.
It is called Pearl Harbor. There is no "u" anywhere in it. Hawaii was, at the time, United States territory.
For the sake of focus, we can limit ourselves to even just post-cold-war cases,
Which means we cannot ignore 9-11, and the ongoing infiltration and presence of Al Quada soldiers in the United States.
The Arabs didn't start the 67 war, Isreal did.
No, the Arabs did.
. The Arabs realized what Isreal's true intentions are and decided not to negoctiate until Isreal withdrew from occupied Arab land
Yes. Israel's true intentions are to live free and resist aggression against it. The Arabs falsely consider any part of Israel to be "occupied land", and of course took the position that they would not negotiate until Israel was wiped out.
The Arabs have been cheated time and time again.
They never have. Time and again, they have been made generous offers, which they have refused.
The most recent was the Roadmap for Peace. Israel said it would stop military action, and it did. The Palestinian government said it would stop action, but it decided at the same time to have branches of its military attack civilian targets in Israel.
Well the Palestinian people has taken matters into their own hands
And that is the problem. They keep fighting an aggressive war of extermination against a neighbor that they hate solely for ethnic/religious reasons. As a result, Israel has been forced to occupy and retaliate. It has not worked out well for the Palestinians.
I would call those attacks, not an invasion. I would say that the enemy needs to have their boots on your territory to be invaded
Then 9-11 surely counts: the feet of the pilots tramped all over U.S. territory before they took the planes up.
When it comes to lobbying power Microsoft is nothing compared with the Zionists.
Ah, the old "jews control congress" myth. You guys keep invoking the Godwin rule by paraphrasing Hitler with the same old antisemitic lies.
I'm going to write my Congressman right now to increase the money going to Israel. If it makes nazis angry, it has to be a good thing.
Clearly, a prior kind of invasion of the U.S. by another nation is required for a U.S. invasion of the perpretrator to be considered a retaliation.
Do you consider it reasonable, therefore, for the U.S. to hijack random aircraft throughout the world and crash them into things as a response to 911?
All that rhetoric about "the friends of our enemies", "axis of evil", etc. leads down a very slippery slope of cannonboat diplomacy littered with domino theories, neo-colonialism, and U.S. special economic interests.
Rather like that string of disconnected and unsupported rhetoric? If I may briefly assume you have made a strong argument that the U.S. invaded Iraq with intent to conquer her, why are our discussions regarding that "conquest" dominated by the question of when we are leaving?
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
It was a joke. Geez kids.
Speak for yourself.
domino theories, neo-colonialism, and U.S. special economic interests.
The domino theory is not being brought up here. There is no domino theory for aggressive Islam: Iran failed to go much beyond its borders.
The "domino theory" was an accurate description of what Soviet imperialists did during the Cold War. During the 1970s, the USSR took over South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. They tried for Thailand, but it did not fall. Similarly, during the 1980s, the USSR took Nicaragua, and then invaded Costa Rica, Honduras, and El Salvador. They failed in these countries (but mostly because the USSR itself fell).
As for neo-colonialism, the efforts by the U.S. and its numerous allies are anti-colonialist (anti-imperialist). Saddam under Iraq was an imperialist/colonialist power (having designs on conquest of Kuwait, Israel, and other places). It is mainly this which got them in trouble. Like his heroes Hitler and Stalin, Saddam had vast liebenschraum dreams.
Some time in 2004, Iraq will be under a government of the country's own choosing (albeit a non-imperialist one). This is thanks to the U.S. The U.S. occupation of Iraq will likely be of about a year in length: far shorter than the temporary occupation of Japan after WW2.
Finally, U.S. special economic interests. The U.S. tends to spend more helping these countries than it ever gets back, so that is not a question.
Do you consider it reasonable, therefore, for the U.S. to hijack random aircraft throughout the world and crash them into things as a response to 911?
I never said that I consider retaliation a reasonable or moral basis for foreign policy. I did say that the invasion of Afghanistan could be considered a reasonable U.S. response to 09/11 if the Taliban had perpetrated it. Your likely response of "but the Taliban had links with Al Qaeda" is precisely the start of that slippery slope I was talking about. The Taliban and Saddam are ultimately both CIA creations - so are you going to bomb Langley? Of course not. This kind of argument is only used to claim the moral high ground when it suits your government's purposes.
To complement your above ludicrous scenario, how would you feel if the French bombed Hollywood so as to preserve the "vital cultural and economic interests" of their film industry? Some of the stunts the U.S. have pulled in South America (Panama, Grenada, etc.) are not far from that level of arrogance and lunacy.
If I may briefly assume you have made a strong argument that the U.S. invaded Iraq with intent to conquer her
No, you may not - don't put words in my mouth. The U.S. invaded Iraq in order to create a dependent client state in the oil-rich Gulf region, as a backup for the likely case that the shaky Saudi regime (or at least its support for the U.S.) collapses. They will leave Iraq as soon as sufficient political and economic infrastructure is in place to ensure that goal, and no sooner. Of course it's much easier to swallow the "we are good, Saddam is evil, therefore it is our moral duty to depose him" horseshit the government feeds you.
The nature of fundamentalism is to selectively enlist moral principles in support of one's own purposes. In that sense, the U.S. is becoming increasingly fundamentalist, and this is as worrisome a development as the rise of Islamic fundamentalism. From fundamentalism to fascism is but a short step - beware the beginnings. If I sound overly dramatic, consider the erosion of civil liberties in the U.S. and (to a lesser extent) Europe after 09/11. Consider hundreds of prisoners held for years at Guantanamo without being charged, without access to lawyers, in direct violation of the Geneva convention. Doesn't that worry you? Scares me as much as any raving ayatollah - more so, in that it's *our* governments doing this.
- nic
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
Nothing was forged.
So show me the WMDs. Show me the infamous "45-minute" capability. Explain why where has been a suicide and several resignations in the UK over the "sexing up" of a dossier on Iraq's military capabilities. Explain why you couldn't wait another 3 months to let the U.N. weapons inspectors do their job.
As for "sovereign nation": Germany and Japan at the end WW2 were no less "sovereign nations" than Iraq was.
Completely different situation, since Germany and Japan had declared war. Nations at war forfeit their sovereignty in the event that they lose. Iraq was not at war with anyone at the time.
Why even mention it?
Because it's one of the fundamental concepts of international law, and as such highly relevant here.
- nic
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
Scary secret foreign goverment agency putting software on my computer. Damn how dare they. How can I ever check out what it does? Don't worry. I broke into their computers and liberated the source from their cluthces!
So the US goverment is already distributing OS software. If you look into SELinux you will find it an intrestting idea and a very usefull addition for machines not 100% under your control.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
And I never said 911 was a foreign policy dispute. I reject your premise that 911 was merely a diplomatic technicality. It was a cowardly, devastating attack against the United States. It stands as a completely different category of problem from the erosion of French artistic identity.
Some of the stunts the U.S. have pulled in South America (Panama, Grenada, etc.) are not far from that level of arrogance and lunacy.
Irrelevant. Your opinions with regard to the U.S.'s behavior in other matters does not change the nature of 911.
No, you may not - don't put words in my mouth.
Far be it from me to presume a strength in your argument that does not in fact exist. It won't happen again.
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
And I never said 911 was a foreign policy dispute.
09/11 itself isn't, but the U.S. "retaliation" for it certainly is.
I reject your premise that 911 was merely a diplomatic technicality.
Huh? Have you *read* what I wrote? Are you on shrooms or what? Of course 09/11 was a horror, but in what way does that justify, say, the invasion of Iraq?
Irrelevant. Your opinions with regard to the U.S.'s behavior in other matters does not change the nature of 911.
If you were capable of reading my posts you would know that I was criticizing U.S. foreign policy in general and the invasion of Iraq in particular. I am in complete agreement with you regarding the nature of 09/11, that is not the argument at all. However, 09/11 is germane to this discussion only in that your government is exploiting the climate of fear 09/11 has generated in the U.S. to further a reprehensible foreign policy that has been in place since cold war times.
Shrooms or not, please try to distinguish between: a) 09/11 itself, b) justifiable U.S. responses to 09/11 (e.g., persecuting Al Quaeda), c) questionable U.S. responses to 09/11 (e.g., keeping prisoners for years without legal recourse), and d) U.S. actions against parties that have nothing whatsoever to do with 09/11 (e.g., the invasion of Iraq). There is of course a continuum between b) and c), where one might argue for instance whether overthrowing the Taliban was justified or not. What I am mostly concerned with, however, is d), and the fact that your government is fabricating links to 09/11 to justify d).
Over and out, at least until you're sober again. Must be good stuff, shame to waste it on political discussions. Go get laid or something.
- nic
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
your government is exploiting the climate of fear 09/11 has generated in the U.S. to further a reprehensible foreign policy that has been in place since cold war times
It take it that you do not live here. There is no climate of fear. There is nothing reprehensible about a foreign policy that is actually taking effective measures to deal with the root cause of global problems.
and the fact that your government is fabricating links to 09/11 to justify [libertating Iraq).
There was never fabricated evidence. The US government laid out the facts from the beginning concerning Iraq.
Over and out, at least until you're sober again
If anything, he is drunk on truth. You keep repeating the same old pro-terrorist, pro-Saddam lies.
Why do you keep repeating the same old antisemitic lies? None of your claims are true, except when you name years (and even then you get events wrong)
Isreal did not exist and has been the agressor since its creation in 1948
The indiginous people have been in the area for 3,000+ years. The modern nation of Israel did not exist until 1948, true, but it has never been the aggressor.
The Arabs never intended to destroy Isreal, they welcomed the jews to live among them when they flocked in droves from Nasi Germany.
Wrong on both counts. Extermination of the Israelis has been an explicit part of the foreign policy of many Arab governments, and also the PLO. The Arabs did not welcome Jews. They instead engaged in pogrom and massacres against new immigrants and old existing Jewish communities both.
Jews lived among the Arbas for long time and they have strived and had their best freedom when every other nation kicked them out. It is mandated in the religion
No, they did not. The Muslim governments had laws to punish people for being Jews.
The Moslem religion is about a one third jewish, another third Christian, and the rest is Islam which completea all of them. "Thou shall not kill your neighbor", remember that?
Tell that to Hamas (a Muslim religious group0, which has "kill all the Jews" as part of its charter.
The Roadmap for Peace is a peice of crap.
True, somewhat: it failed to get the aggressors (Palestinian government) to stop its aggression.
Isreal's attitude hasn't changed and they falsely keep blaming the palestinians for aggresion while itself is waging a war of extermination against them
False and false. Israel has not engaged in even one single act of aggression against Palestinians, and there is no plan or evidence of extermination plans (except those hatched by branches of the Palestinian government against Jews)
If the rights of the Palestinina are not addressed to their satisfaction
The only "right" they are being denied is the right to live in a country where all the Jews have been killed off.
You are right, 50 years of negotiation have done nothing for the Palestinians and they for sure know it now.
The problem is not negotiations. The problem is that the Palestinian government has engaged in near-constant unprovoked aggression, which has done them no good. If they gave up their totally unjust war, things would improve. Look at how Egypt got all of its land back when it backed off from its "exterminate the Jews" policy.
You get so many facts wrong. Is it total ignorance, or is it a Hitlerian hatred of Jewish people that drives you to lie again and again?
Some of the stunts the U.S. have pulled in South America (Panama, Grenada, etc.) are not far from that level of arrogance and lunacy.
For one thing, NEITHER of those countries are in South America. Did you know that? Panama is a North American country. Grenada is not on a continent.
For another, these actions were highly moral and highly justified. In Grenada. the U.S. rescued the place from Soviet occupiers. Grenada has been an independent country ever since. In Panama, the U.S. helped the elected government against a thug who refused to get off his throne.
What is bad about both of these? Nothing. What is great about both? Everything.
Consider hundreds of prisoners held for years at Guantanamo without being charged...Scares me as much as any raving ayatollah - more so, in that it's *our* governments doing this.
Do you even think about what you are saying? The Gitmo prisoners are there because they were caught red-handed fighting in a terrorist army. What is wrong with this? Nothing, of course. Your ignorance of foreign policy and history is scarier than anything
If I sound overly dramatic, consider the erosion of civil liberties in the U.S. and (to a lesser extent) Europe after 09/11.
You probably don't live here. There has been no erosion of civil liberties (other than taking shoes off in longer lines at the airport). None at all.
"He may be referring to hidden costs like having to learn the quirks of the way it works, i.e., the differences between it and MS Office."
In my experience it is MS Office that has the truely bizzaro "quirks". Such as when you try to change the style of a paragraph and the entire document is hosed. Everyone I've talked to about such problems agrees that Office is the king of unintended behavior.
Open Office is a far better behaving program.
Your are a liar. I don't see how you could ignore or twist all the facts that we see on the news every day. You are a moron. End of story
Go to this site. Read and comprehend if you are able. I doubt it and I am not holding my breath.
http://www.pmwatch.org/pmw/snakebite/
There's no facts at pmwatch.org.
It is run by a genocidal hate group. Try for something unbiased.
You are a moron
That is a nice way to cap off your long list of antisemitic lies. Next thing, you will be attacking me for being Jewish.
You are the type who would look at an incident where a Palestinian military agent opens fire on a group of Israeli civilians, killing a 6, while hiding behind Palestinian civilians. The Israelis shoot back, and one Palestinian civilian is killed along with the terrorist.
Then you will go and cry about Israel's unprovoked murder of 2 Palestinian civilians. (You won't mention the dead Israelis; the only good Jew is a dead Jew).
It is quite interesting that the ethnic cleansing of Jewish people from the Palestinian "Territories" is one of the top demands in order for there to be "peace". This is in fact a pretty much mainstream desire by the Palestinians. This is why they want to get rid of Arutz 7.
While it does not apply to Arutz 7, a significant proportion of the Jews/Israelis in the "territories" are native born: the territories is their actual homeland. Yet, these people would be expelled in order to create the ethnically-pure Palestinian fatherland.
Funny, when the Serbs did this in Bosnia, it was considered to be bad, for some reason. I wonder what the difference between Israelis and Bosnians is....
You will also notice that the desire to eliminate the Arab population from Israel is a fringe view among Israelis.
If the Palestinian polity is so immature and evil-minded to demand a human rights catastrophe (ethnic cleansing) in order for there to be peace, perhaps they cannot be trusted to run a State. By all indications, such a Palestinian State would be an intolerant hellhole similar to the Bosnian-free "Republka Srpska" that Serbia carved out within Bosnia during the 1990s. They need to "Grow up", prove tolerance, and lay off the attacks before letting them have a State should even be considered.
Just a reminder from your friendly neighborhood armchair political scientist: "Both sides are wrong, both sides have blood on their hands, everyone's about equally guilty," is sometimes just as much a cop-out as "they did it, it's all them, we're a bunch of boy scouts, yer honor."
Personally, I believe that this particular case of middle-eastern mutual slaughter is a case of one party which is massively in the wrong, and one party which is only a little bit in the wrong. I'm not saying which is which; that's not really relevant to what I'm saying, which is:
It is better to look at the facts and opinions and dig out the truth, or your version of it, than to go by an interpretation because it's "fair" or "in the middle." Sometimes, the factual situation isn't "fair" or symmetrical, which means a "fair" description is a filthy lie. The SCO situation, and the damn weasel analysts who take a weighted average of the SCO press releases and groklaw to get the truth, are a good example of this.
(I haven't even read the grandparent; please don't assume I'm defending it against the parent and decide my beliefs accordingly.)
You mean to say that Country A (which sometimes inadvertantly kills civilians during retaliations for unprovoked attacks from Country B) might not be quite as bad as Country B (which routinely targets civilians for execution as part of a plan of invasion and extermination) ?
Gee. I thought they were all the same.
You have selective imagination.
How about Land and houses previously owned by Palestinians, confiscated and given to jews?
How about that? Well, it is wrong. Most of the land and houses were purchased, or given away when the Palestinians ran away rather than live in a place where Jewish people had full rights.
Why do you think Israelis are dispised? Hint: Not because they are jews
Yes, it is exactly because they are Jews. Jordan has visited much worse atrocities on Palestinians. Syria denies citizenship to Syrians of Palestinian descent. Israel looks mild in comparison: yet Israel gets the hatred. A hint: they are Jews, not Arabs.
The Jews in the region were despised long before there was Israel or "zionism", for the fact that they refused to submit to the Muslim god forced on them by the Arab invaders.
The occupation is NOT about security.
It is all about security. The Palestinians forced the occupation to happen by attacking Israelis from these lands. Every time Israel starts to pull out, the Palestinians invite re-occupation by attacking again.
Israel being assaulted eh? Nice selective memory.
No, just accurate recollection of history. Every single incident was started by the Arab aggressors. Is Israel perfect? No. Does it sometimes go overboard in retaliating? Certainly. That does not change the fact that they never initiate these things.
Late 1900's the zionnists decide that their country will be in Palestine, never mind that no one asked the Palestinians already living there.
They did, in fact: these "Zionists" bought their land and homes from those living there.
Also, a careful read of history by a sane person will show that in the Israel/Palestine conflict, the victims are the Palestinians
Only a reading by a neo-nazis or other antisemite will show this. The facts show constant "we will exterminate them" aggression against the Israelis.
no mention of zionnists refusing the Germans offers that would have effectively saved countless jews.
I figured you would come up with "trust the German Nazis". Nazis are to be trusted and Jews are to be despised, right? Your "selective imagination" is also forgetting the fact that the Palestinian leaders of the WW2 era, including Arafat's mentor, were allied with Nazi Germany. They shared a certain goal, that you clearly share.
Seems to contradict the notion that Israel wants peace.
Nothing contradicts this, as Israel's actions have always been peaceful. Who cares what Ben Gurion says. Look at the actual events. The Israelis live. Get used to it. Get over it. Your desire to exterminate them will never come to pass.
You ought to read Amira Hass' "Drinking the Sea at Gaza" to see how much Israel has done for Palestinians... (The zionnists vie Amira Hass as a self hating jew...)
As for the Arab nations, one has to be careful here. There's the population, and there's the various puppet and/or corrupted government that can be attributed to the colonnial powers (UK, US, etc. at various times). Just consider that some of those "Arab nations" allowed the US free passage to conduct the unjustified attack on Iraq. Rest assured those decision were not supported by the Arab populations.
But in any event, what the Arab nations aren't doing for the Palestinians isn't the bigger question. No innaction should be bigger than the clear lack of respect and human right violations perpetrated against the Palestinians by Israel. And I'm afraid here that I have to include a segment of the populations when I say "Israel". The settlers are israelis. The IDF soldiers/commanders are Israelis. Basically, quite a lot of people don't view the arabs as equal. This first became obvious to me when I attended a lecture. I became more aware of that because an Israeli jew explained it. And there's even a poll by the Israeli democracy institute that supports that. More than half of Israelis don't tink Arabs in Israel should be treated equally. See for yourself:
http://www.idi.org.il/english/article.php?id=29
Then, after that, swing by B'Tselem (www.btselem.org) - a israeli human rights group that document countless data on the conflicts. And this ain't a pretty picture, especially not for Israel and the IDF and settlers, both within Israel and in the occupied territories.
So, there are far too many people who participate in this to make this just a government thing. Israelis and zionists are part of this injustice. But at the same time, along with those racist jews, there is a whole lot of brave, courageous and good jews that speak out against the injustices inflicted on the Palestinians: The fine folks of Gush Shalom with its admirable leader by the name of Uri Avnery. Lots of Rabbis who oppose zionnism, and even the state of Israel. Intellectuals like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein. Writers/journalists like Amira Hass and Guideon Levy.
What you are doing with focusing on the suicide bomber is just focusing on the symptom rather than the root cause. You are not going to get rid of suicide bombers until the Occupation ends, and the Palestinians are treated humanly and justly. Israel was founded on the ruins of Palestinian villages. This has to be acknowledged by Israelis... because this is the truth.
Ever heard of Canada Park in Israel? Where Canada Park stands today (in the territories), used to be a Palestinian village. During the '67 war, the Palestinians where expulsed, and the entire village was bulldozed. Later, Canadian jews raised money that was used to setup this park. Read and see about Canada Park at:
http://netfinity2.palestineremembered.com/al-Ra
That's just one of too many examples of what Israel and the zionists have done to Palestinians. Then, you expect Palestinians to somehow be nice to Israelis who continuously make the lives of Palestinians a nightmare. You are not being realistic. I don't like suicide bombers. But I'm not blind. It is foolish to expect people who have families who have been killed, tortured emprisonned, and who get up in the morning only to face yet another day of humiliation at the hands of Israel to be all nice and peaceful. You just can't humiliate an entire people and expect them to be nice to you. It IS going to blow up in your face... as it has and continue to happen to Israelis.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/
t ineremembered.com/t e.org/
is NOT a good source of accurate information.
Instead, it is the same propaganda bullshit that the zionists like to spew. Confusing the matters to the point of making them way more complicated than they really are.
For good source of information, a swing by www.gush-shalom.org is a good start. Read all the articles by Uri Avnery in the archives.
A swing by http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/ can also be a good idea. He has some good books, and online article. The zionists hate Finkelstein big time. If you wonder whether he's accurate, just consider the fact that the zionists now avoid him at all cost. They refuse to engage with him in any debate. Considering that the zionists are always eager to jump in and "educate" people at every occasion, it is very telling that they avoid Finkelstein... Normally, when someone is spitting out lies, people want to rectify the situation... but the zionists don't try it with Finkelstein.
Also, stay tuned for the movie "Occupation 101":
http://www.occupation101.com/
Other sites:
http://www.btselem.org/
http://www.pales
http://www.one-democratic-sta
http://www.nkusa.org/
http://www.palestinefacts.org/is NOT a good source of accurate information.
Nor are any of the sites you listed. I see you are still using "zionist" as a sort of code-word of pejorative hate against Jews.
Finkelnazi is well known. His page is filled with antisemitic essays. Only, when a Jew hates other Jews, it is typically called being a "self-hating Jew"
You really need to let go of your hatred of Jewish people. It really did the Third Reich no good (look at Germany in 1946), and it is doing "Palestine" no good, either. You really know nothing if you rely on neo-nazis for facts.
As for Occupation 101, I wonder if Stephen Hawking likes his quotes being used by pro-genocide groups. I'm sure Al Jazeera will show it many many times.
The jews indeed lived there, and by all account I've read lived mostly peacefully with the muslims and christians
These are the accounts written by the Muslim extremists. The facts were that ever since the Arab invasion, and until 1948, the indiginous Jews were treated as 2nd class citizens. They were "treated peacefully" only if they "Stayed in their place". The situation was like that of blacks in the south during 1900-1960. The Muslim empires even had laws on the books which punished people specifically for being Jewish (including having to pay a special tax Muslims did not pay).
This was one reason the creation of a state of Israel, which ensured equal rights for all regardless of religion, was needed. The Arabs/Muslims had their way since their invasion, and their rule never worked.
Did you know that until 1948, Jewish people were barred from going to Jewish holy sites? Since then, the government of Israel has protected the rights of all, including Muslims, go have access to their holy sites.
The original plan for Israel had the place being very small. It consisted entirely of land in which Jews were a majority because their ancestors lived there, or immigrants had purchased land. The intolerant Arabs decided they would rather exterminate the people than see such a place as a neighbor. The resulting expansion of Israel has been a reaction to the need for buffer areas after these attacks.
If the Arabs had decided for peace, there would be a very small Israel. Instead, they decided on extermination and holding on to the idea of forcing Arab imperialism on traditionally non-Arab lands.
Hmmm, I'm quite certain there would not be any conflict if it hadn't been for the zionist dream of displacing the palestinians.
Given that Israel was built on the ruins of Palestinians villages and cities, it's understandable that the Arab world has some problems with accepting Israel's existence.
But if Israelis finally admitted the wrong doing, I think this could be negotiated and resolved in a NY minute.
Given that Israel was built on the ruins of Palestinians villages and cities, it's understandable that the Arab world has some problems with accepting Israel's existence.
They had major problems with the Jews before Israel was built. Also, there was no "Palestinina" nationality; that is only a recent fabrication.
But if Israelis finally admitted the wrong doing, I think this could be negotiated and resolved in a NY minute.
There is no wrongdoing to admit. Of course, to the Arab aggressors, the Jews merely trying to live is "wrongdoing".
Of course the israeli arabs don't have that. Wasn't there an arab knesset member that got in hot water for questioning the jewishness of the state of Israel? That's not allowed by the Basic Law of the Knesset.
Yes. You are watering down the hate speech by this Knesset member. Israel is one of those countries that is hypersensitive about racist "wipe them out" hate speech. Of course they are cautious when Nazis speak in their very midst about wiping them out. The speaker you were referring to was a genocidal hatemonger who wanted an Israel with 0% Jewishness.
There is no problem with "jewishness" in Israel, in reality. Non-Jews such as Muslims are allowed to worship freely. In fact, Muslims have more religious freedom in Israel than they do in just about any mostly-Muslim country except for Turkey.
There can be no solution to the problems unless the Palestinian government apologizes for the decades of aggression and atrocities, and agrees never to do anymore.
Please give numbers.
Please give numbers. The UN has been giving money to help the refugees. Given that Israel created the refugee problem, it should be Israel that's paying this. So, indirectly, Israel is getting money.
"Openly"?
You are surprised? I mean, Arafat has at least aa little bit to do with the PLO.
Please provide a quote. I'd like to see the bit where the PLO proclaim theselves as terrorist.
Pointer please.
Well, I'm sure that there's no such thing in the Israel constitution... for one, there's no Israel constitution. But it's always been the goal of the zionists to get the arabs out of Palestine.
I have a hard time with your math here. US gives Billions of tax payers $ to Israel. Israel gives money to US companies in exchange for military gear (also known as "buying"). So, Israel ends up with loads of weaponry. Yet, you think the US gave nothing? Now, stick with me here, and try to use your brain... how much of those cool military toys would Israel have if the US avoided getting involved with Israel?
The money comes out of the average joe tax payer money. Given to Israel. Israel turns around and give the money to large corporation in exchange for cool military toys. The net result is that your money goes in the pockets of large corporations who then give fancy toys to Israel who uses them to oppress a people.
And I tought people in
Well, aside for the fact that it may well be the most dangerous country for a jew to live in, that people don't take the bus anymore, that tourism has been going down the drain, etc.
If you ignore enough things you can think things are normal.
The bottom line: it's not the terrorists that dictate the Israeli agenda. It's the criminal zionist thugs running the government that do.
please stop posting anonymously. that was a well written and accurate response.
The bottom line: it's not the terrorists that dictate the Israeli agenda. It's the [filthy Juden] running the government that do.
Let's make sure to replace well-worn antisemitic code words with what you REALLY mean, ok?
People like you like to equate zionist with jew in the hope that people will have compassion for the zionnists. But in reality, you are causing the reverse. People who fail to see that zionist!=jew, thanks to people like you, instead turn out to hate the jews because of what the zionists are doing.
m -a nd-zionism.html
Not all jews are zionists. I'm afraid that your attempt to imply that I'm anti-semite just shows how little the zionists have to hang on to.
I'm soooo anti-semite that one time, after listening to a lecture from Edward Said, I went to buy a Daniel Barenboim. And I get most of my information on the Israel-Palestine conflict from jews.
Just to help you a bit break your false understanding that zionist==jew, go check out the following talk:
http://www.inminds.co.uk/rabbi-goldstein-judasi
People like you like to equate zionist with jew in the hope that people will have compassion for the zionnists
Most "anti-Zionists" are really anti-Jew. In fact, almost all of the Palestinian government and military organizations speak of their hatred for Jews in general when they attack Israel. People hate "zionists" BECAUSE they hate Jews.
thanks to people like you, instead turn out to hate the jews because of what the zionists are doing
There is absolutely no reason to hate Jews or "zionists". This hatred is the bigot's own fault.
Not all jews are zionists
Yes, there are some self-hating Jews who wish for the destuction of the Jewish people. However, these are a minority.
Just to help you a bit break your false understanding that zionist==jew
It's not false. The hatred for both is the same. There are a few exceptions among Jews (just as there were some Jews during WW2 who supported the Nazis, oddly enough). However, these are fringe kooks. Much different is the hatred for Israel in general, which is a hatred based on the fact that the Israel people stand for equal rights for Jews.
Where do you get your information ?
....
3rd Reich propaganda manuals ?
Or are you just naturally stupid ?
Sorry, the last one applies. You are simply an idiot by design.
I just looked at your home page - only a complete moron would display stuff "My computer is running Gentoo"
He's probably out painting swatikas on synagogues. After all, Jews are nothing but stinking brutal "Zionists", and they deserve the worst they get.